1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast 3 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: from Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. This time 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: last year, my apartment was hot. I like, how well 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: we've recorded today, because we'd record an other thing, many 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: things at once. The heat has come up many times. 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: It has been a long stretch of and above, which 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: sounds like Heaven to me. But I know I'm a weirdo. 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: We don't have air conditioning. UH, So it was hot. 10 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: I was looking at a very, very dark and heavy 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: short list of podcast topics to cover. Uh. And when 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: this happened last year, the result of my quest to 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: find something that was cool and pleasant to talk about 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 1: was good humor versus pops Popsicle. Uh. The exact same 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: thing is happening as we speak right now, and it 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: has brought us to today's topic of butter versus Margarine. 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: So unlike the popsicle episode, which involved this handful of 18 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: businesses and their ongoing legal battles about who could get 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: to make which frozen treats, this one is about whole 20 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: industries and entire governments and just a really weird preoccupation 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: with protecting people from the nefarious horrors of margarine way 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: before people were making it with the hydrogenated oils that 23 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 1: led to its like more unhealthy reputation in more recent years. 24 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: There's even bootlegging involved in this whole story. So big 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: props to our colleagues at house Stuff Works Now for 26 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: their Ridiculous History series, which is a series of articles 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: about weird things in history, and it's home to the 28 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: article that inspired today's show, which is delightfully entitled Land 29 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: of Fakes Marjarine bootlegging in Canada. And as was the 30 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: case when we talked about the history of cheese, most 31 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: of the stories about where butter came from our probably apocryphal. 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:53,919 Speaker 1: All of the English words for butter trace back to Latin, 33 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: with the Greek origins purportedly stemming from the words for 34 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: ox or cow and cheese, although there's some debate about 35 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: all that. So grain of salted uh. There are various 36 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: tales about nomadic peoples, whether they were European or Western Asian, 37 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 1: traveling with pack animals possibly camels, and the milk slashing 38 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: around in skins turning into butter. Similar stories go with 39 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: the cheese Yale milk in a skin and it came 40 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: out as cheese because Rennet like, that's the cheese origin story. Uh. 41 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: The story for better makes logical sense because butter is 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: made when milk or cream are agitated in some way, 43 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: usually by being shaken up, returned until the fat coagulates, 44 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: and then these fatty solid bits can be pressed into 45 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: delicious butter, and butter milk is what was left behind, 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: and a number of early cultures did store liquids in 47 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: skins and also simultaneously traveled with them on pack animals, 48 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: so it's possible that's what happened all the same, though 49 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: it's just about impossible now to determine the exact birthplace 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: and time of butter because not all of it because 51 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: this next bit, or if they were traveling with me 52 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: because I ate it. Thanks to written records in archaeology, 53 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: we do know that butter has existed for at least 54 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: five thousand years, and we do have some actual samples, 55 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: so my smart alocky comment does not apply. We have 56 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: actual samples of incredibly old butter thanks to Ireland's Pete 57 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: Bogs as early as three thousand BC. People living around 58 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: those bogs buried butter, often in a wooden vessel, but 59 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: sometimes in a skin or a croc or some other 60 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: container in the bog. We're not sure this was a if, 61 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: this was a preservation technique or an offering or some 62 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: completely other purpose, But thousands of years later, people are 63 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: still stumbling onto these long buried deposits of butter, and 64 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: some of which are really tallow or something else that's 65 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: fatty and waxy. Some of us basically better, though it 66 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: usually smells really rancid. So don't fancy, don't get better, Margarine, 67 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: that's the shirt I want. Don't eat bog butter. Okay, 68 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: He's kind of like, don't eat the yellow snow, don't 69 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: eat the bog butter. Just life lessons. Yeah, so, Margarine, 70 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: on the other hand, much easier pedigree to trace. At 71 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: the eighteen sixties six World's Fair and We're Louis Napoleon 72 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: the Third, who was nephew to Napoleon Bonaparte, announced that 73 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: he wanted a substitute for butter that could benefit poor 74 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: people and the French military. So the price of butter 75 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: had almost doubled in the two decades leading up to 76 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: this announcement. It was just way too expensive. For a 77 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: lot of people in France to afford. And it was way, way, 78 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: way too expensive to just serve it up to France's 79 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: armed forces, cost way too much money. The French War 80 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: Office offered a cash prize to the person who could 81 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: solve this problem. The idea wasn't just to make something 82 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: that might taste good enough to tempt people to spread 83 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: it on their bread instead of butter. It needed to 84 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: work as a substitute for butter in cooking, and ideally 85 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: it needed to be less perishable than butter, which turns 86 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: rancid pretty quickly when it's not kept cold, and it 87 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: needed to have some dietary value in the form of 88 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: fat and calories. French chemist Epolite mes Mourrier took the 89 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: prize in eighteen sixty nine with a spread herble emulsion 90 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: of beef, tallow and water, turned together with a little 91 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: bit of milk for flavor, and it met all the 92 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: right criteria. Was a dietary source of fat and calories 93 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: that had a sort of buttery taste, and it was cheap. 94 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: It costs as little as half the price of butter. 95 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: He called it Oleo margarine, probably more like Oleo margarine 96 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: in French with my terrible French accent. This came from 97 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: the Latin oleum for beef fat and the Greek the 98 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: Greek margarite for pearl. There are also some sources that 99 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: say that this came from margaric acid, which was at 100 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: the time believed to be a fatty acid head that 101 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: was heavily present and milk. But all of the chemistry 102 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: involving that at the time was just wrong. My mother, 103 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: who was a very good cook, her mother was French, 104 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: and you know, even well into the nine nineties, my 105 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: mom would call Margarine olio. Yeah, olio was what it 106 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: was called in a lot of places. Mensh Mourier patented 107 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: his invention and eventually sold his patent to Dutch butter 108 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: making company Urgans. Jurgen's would eventually go on to become 109 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: part of Unilever, which, by total coincidence, now also owns 110 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: the popsicle brand. Because everything is connected in some weird 111 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: coming full circle Meash Mourier was granted a U. S 112 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: patent in eighteen seventy three, which he sold to the U. S. 113 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: Dairy Company. He was granted patents on a few nope. 114 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: He was granted patents in a few other nations as well. 115 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: All these patents make it sound like he became successful 116 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: off of this invention. He really didn't make a lot 117 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: of money off of it, though, margin didn't really take 118 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: off in Europe. France, of course, is famous for its 119 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: very buttery cooking, and French chefs and citizens were just 120 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: not too excited about swapping butter for a spread invented 121 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: by a chemist which people thought of as artificial. Also 122 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: didn't catch on quickly in other European nations either, and 123 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: most of the laws that were passed relating to it 124 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: in Europe we're just devoted to trying to prevent people 125 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: from fraudulently selling margarine labeled as butter. By eighteen eighty seven, Germany, 126 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: for example, had enacted a margarine law mandating very clear 127 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: label labeling and separate displays for margarine and butter in shops. 128 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: Right on. Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the United States 129 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: all took steps to regulate marjarine, And we're going to 130 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: talk about that in North America in particular, but first 131 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna pause for a word from one of our 132 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: fantastic sponsors. So marjarine story in Canada is pretty straightforward. 133 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: Canada had a total marjarine prohibition from eighteen eighty six 134 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 1: until nineteen forty nine, with one brief window from nineteen 135 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: seventeen until nineteen twenty two because of dairy and butter 136 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: shortages during World War One. That brief windowed did not 137 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: reopen during World War Two, though, because at that point 138 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: the government dealt with these shortages through rationing rather than 139 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: by temporarily allowing people to buy artificial butter. The reason 140 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: for Canada's prohibition was that was that margarine was viewed 141 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: as an injurious product that people needed to be protected from. However, 142 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: for decades after Marjarine's invention, Newfoundland wasn't yet part of Canada, 143 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: and in Newfoundland things were quite different. The climate there 144 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: didn't make cattle farming easy at all. You would basically 145 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: have to keep your cows inside for much of the year, 146 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: and consequently, most dairy products, including butter, had to be imported. 147 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna make a little side note that every 148 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: time we say Newfoundland on the podcast, we get a 149 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: different video with a different correct pronunciation. So I'm just 150 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: putting that out there. If you were about to type 151 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 1: us an email, just save your time, right. So Newfoundland 152 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: welcomed margarine, and since it was so much easier to 153 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: make margarine there than to raise cows, it developed its 154 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: own margarine industry. Marjarine was also an important part of 155 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: the diets of many Newfoundlanders, and thanks to its calorie, 156 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: calorie and fat content enriched marjarine even became part of 157 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: a specific government effort to combat malnutrition. People from Canada 158 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: who wanted marjarine during this whole Canadian prohibition would smuggle 159 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: it in, either from Newfoundland or from the United States. 160 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: All that together means that during the Union between Newfoundland 161 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: and Canada in ninety, marjarine became a problem. Canada's laws 162 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: did not allow a product to be legal in one 163 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: province and illegal in others. So even if Newfoundland had 164 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: just started importing butter from the other provinces, it would 165 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: be way more expensive than marjarine. Plus, nobody really wanted 166 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: to destroy Newfoundland's existing marjarine industry, so the nineteen forty 167 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: nine British North America Acts spelled out that Newfoundland could 168 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: keep making margarine like this is this really basically the 169 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: Act of union between these nations to become one nation 170 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: had a part in it about about margarine. Eventually, the 171 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: Supreme Court of Canada ruled that margarine was no longer 172 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: an injurious product product and left regulation up to the provinces, 173 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: which individually repealed their margarine bands and more gradually repealed 174 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: laws that specified that the margarine had to be a 175 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: specific color. The last of those was actually repealed repealed 176 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: in Quebec in two thousand and eight. Very recently. We're 177 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: going to talk more about colors of margarine a little later. 178 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: Pink and purple, uh No, the United but it is 179 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: all the colors, uh that might make it more appealing 180 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: to some people. The United States did not have a 181 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: flat out nationwide margarine prohibition, but it did have an 182 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: ongoing feud between the butter and margarine industries, and that 183 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: feud went on for almost a century. The first margarine 184 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: factory in the United States was opened by the US 185 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: Dairy Company in eighteen seventy four. That was the year 186 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: after it about Mesmurier's at US patent, and within ten 187 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: years there were almost forty different American companies making margarine. 188 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: The dairy industry, unsurprisingly was not happy about this at all. 189 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: The dairy industry was afraid that number one, people were 190 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: going to switch to marjarine across the board, and number 191 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: two that poor people switching to marjarine would put the 192 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: smaller butter makers that made like a lower grade, less 193 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: expensive butter out of business. Number three in the dairy 194 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: industry's list of fears was that people were going to 195 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: fraudulently sell marjarine labeled as butter, as had been a 196 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: concern in Europe. Correct, and that last fear was absolutely justified. 197 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: Manufacturers were making and selling marjarine in large quantities, which 198 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: unscrupulous people were divvying up and repackaging and selling as butter. 199 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: Just one of many, many examples which was described in 200 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: an eighteen seventy seven New York Times article quote. Christopher Strauss, 201 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: Grosser of number sixteen second Avenue, was arraigned before just 202 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: Is Marie in the fifty seven Street Police Court yesterday 203 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: charged was selling Oleo margarine, representing it to be pure butter. 204 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: Essay Churchill, a former manufacturer of the artificial article and 205 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: who is now employed as a detective by the Butter 206 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: and Cheese Exchange, appeared as complainant. I just want to 207 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: highlight the fact that there was a butter and cheese 208 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: exchange that had a detective I feel like there is 209 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: a wonderful historical fiction novel to be had there. Yep. 210 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: So this threat of fraud also applied to American exports 211 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: of butter, which was caused for concern in the butter industry. 212 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: To American butter exports and quote spurious compounds resembling butter, 213 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: we're discussed in the British House of Commons on April one, 214 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: eight one. One inspector was cited as saying forty out 215 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: of every one hundred casks of butter he inspected did 216 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: not contain butter. The superintendent of Manchester and Salford Markets 217 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: was quoted as saying, quote, I see used thirteen tubs 218 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: of butter at a wholesaler confectioner's bakery. It was most 219 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: filthy stuff imaginable, stunk fearfully and was of many colors. 220 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: It's likely that a lot of these claims of quote 221 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: spurious compounds were inflated or really were butter that had 222 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: just gone rancid in transit. Even so, butter fraud really 223 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: was a very real problem. However, a lot of the 224 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: dairy industries other complaints about margarine and claims that they 225 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 1: may need to try to discourage people from eating margarine 226 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: were to be very candid, extremely hypocritical. Margin margarine was 227 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: decried as inferior, made of poor quality ingredients, and likely 228 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: to be contaminated. Since some of margarine's ingredients were byproducts 229 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: of animal slaughter. The butter industry claimed it was made 230 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: of things that were really garbage and not meant for 231 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: human consumption. Uh. Margin was kind of described the way 232 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: we would describe hot dogs todays, being like made of scrapings. 233 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: There were comparisons to margarine being no better than melting 234 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: the burned out stub of your candle in the eating that. Meanwhile, 235 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: marjarine manufacturers were inviting inspectors and legislators and consumers to 236 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: just come tour their factories any time unannounced, to see 237 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: that they were indeed clean and that their ingredients were wholesome. However, 238 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: at this time, the butter industry was just on the 239 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: cusp of becoming more standardized. For its whole history, butter 240 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: had mostly come not from dedicated dairy farms, but from 241 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: small farms with one or two cows whose milk was 242 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: made into butter seasonally. There was really no consistency. And 243 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: how good this butter was or how high it's quality was. 244 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: It kind of depended entirely on how healthy the cow 245 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: was and how well it was cared for, as well 246 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: as on the skill, attention to cleanliness, and promptness of 247 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: the person making it. In other words, sure, a dirty 248 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: factory could crank out adulterated margarine, but a dirty farm 249 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: kitchen could crank out adulterated butter just as easily. The 250 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: dairy industry also put out a massive campaign portraying margarine 251 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: as an inferi artificial product made in a factory. The 252 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: fact that it was from a factory, man made, and 253 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: something made it somehow automatically bad. And this came up 254 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: again and again. In eighteen seventy seven, Minnesota Governor Lucius 255 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: Hubbard spelled it out this way quote, the public has 256 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: been victim of various impositions practiced in different departments of 257 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: its industry. But I think it will be admitted that 258 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: the ingenuity of depraved human genius have culminated in the 259 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: production of oleomargarine and it's kindred abominations. But at the 260 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: same time, the centrifugal cream separator was introduced in eighteen 261 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: seventy eight, just four years after the first margarine factory 262 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: was open, and this was a device that could automatically 263 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: remove the cream from milk and from there it could 264 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: be made into butter. The centrifugal cream separator was really 265 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: only cost effective in an industrial setting using large batches 266 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: of milk. So just as the margarine industry was really 267 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: becoming established in the United eight, the dairy industry was 268 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: also on this anti factory campaign while simultaneously moving from 269 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: small batch farm butter to large batch creamery butter, which 270 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: was made in a factory. Factories were evil. Let's build 271 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: some uh. And the last big hypocrisy in the dairy 272 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: industry's campaign against margarine was coloring. Margarine made from nineteenth 273 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: century methods was white and it looked kind of like lard. 274 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: Most manufacturers colored at yellow, both to look more appetizing 275 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: and two more resembled butter, since margarine was basically being 276 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: touted as a butter substitute. The dairy industry, on the 277 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: other hand, insisted that margine that the margarine industry's practice 278 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: of coloring the product yellow was bad, both deceptive and unwholesome. 279 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: So the dairy industry lobbied for laws against yellow margarine. 280 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: But there's the thing. When cows eat grass, butter that's 281 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: made from the milk they produced tends to be very 282 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: yellow because of all the caroteen in what the cows 283 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: were eating. But if the cows are fed corn or 284 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: other feed that doesn't have that much caroteen, the butter 285 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: made from their milk is much much paler. So the 286 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: dairy industry was already coloring butter yellow when it demanded 287 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: that the margarine industry stopped doing that. And their argument 288 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: was that the dairy industry's own use of yellow coloring 289 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: was simply a minor tweak, while the margarine industries used 290 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: to the same color was an outright exception. All of 291 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: these efforts on the part of the dairy industry led 292 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: to a ton of laws and just ridiculous number of 293 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: Supreme Court cases, which we will talk about after another 294 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: sponsor break. So to get back to the story of margarine, 295 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: and we're now going to get into just a a 296 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: shocking amount of time and efforts spent in the legal 297 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: world with margarine. After Marjorie was introduced in the United 298 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: States in eighteen seventy four, the push to regulate it 299 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: started almost immediately. The National Association for the Prevention of 300 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: Adulteration of Butter was formed in eighteen eighty two. That 301 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: was a real thing, and by eighteen eight six, twenty 302 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: seven states had marjarine laws on their books. Twenty of 303 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: these states required marjarine to be labeled specifically as margarine, 304 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: and then Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Ohio band 305 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: marjarine outright. I can't help but think about the fact 306 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of dairy industry in those uh 307 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: that year, President Grover Cleveland signed the Oleo Margarine Act 308 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: into law, and with that, marjarine manufacturers had to pay 309 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: six hundred dollars, wholesalers four hundred and eighty dollars, and 310 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: retailers forty eight dollars for the privilege of selling margarine 311 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: because we're making it of being in the marjarine blush Sure, 312 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: consumers had to pay a tax of two cents per 313 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: pound on margarine that they purchased. So that's not a 314 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: lot of time that elapsed between when margarine was introduced 315 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: in the United States and when we had a national 316 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: law with taxes. Although the dairy industry, which was focused well, 317 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: I mean largely in the Midwest, not just the Midwest, 318 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: but the big part of the Midwest. This was hugely 319 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: in favor of this law. The South, home to the 320 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: soy and cotton seed farms that were supplying the marjarine 321 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: industry with oils, were not so much in favor of 322 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: the law. Also opposed to it were people who felt 323 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: like this was the first step down a slippery, slippery 324 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: slope of the federal government needlessly regulating private business. There 325 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: were a lot of people who were terrified that the 326 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: government was just going to start regulating everything. Even though 327 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: the OLEO Margarine Act had been touted as something that 328 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: would curtail the practice of margarine fraud, the fraud actually 329 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: got worse after this Act went into a ACKed. There 330 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: was more deliberate mislabeling of margarine as butter in an 331 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: effort to evade those taxes instead of less. Running alongside 332 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: all of these taxes and prohibitions were laws about margarine's color. 333 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: As we talked about before the break. At this at 334 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: this point in history, margarine in it's originally made state 335 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 1: was like white and lardie looking. Multiple states outlawed yellow 336 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: margarine specifically, in eighteen eighty four, Vermont passed the law 337 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: that margarine sold there had to be dyed pink cooray yep, 338 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: that's for Holly Holly's margarine. In New Hampshire and West 339 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: Virginia followed suit. See I to see you making all 340 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: kinds of beautiful pink sauces food. I mean that seems obvious. 341 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: I wish it were butter, but that's just because I 342 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: like some butterfat. The move to regulate marjarine color increased 343 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 1: dramatically over the next few decades. By nineteen o two, 344 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: thirty two of the then forty five states had regulations 345 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: about margarine color, many of them banning yellow margarine, and 346 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: some of them, like Vermont, had already done mandating that 347 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: it be dyed a colors other than yellow. That same year, 348 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: the Oleo Margine Act of eighteen eighty six was amended 349 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: in what was known as the Grout Bill, named after 350 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: William Wallace Grout of Vermont. This bill so it's hard 351 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: to say some of today's episode with a straight face. 352 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: This bill raised the tax on colored margarine from two 353 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: cents a pound to ten cents a pound. Meanwhile, the 354 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: tax on uncolored margarine's the white margarine was dropped to 355 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: a quarter of a cent per pound. Those licensing fees 356 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: that had been part of the original Oleo margin law 357 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: were also reduced dramatically for the manufacturers, distributors, and retailers 358 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: who handled only uncolored margarine, and that nineteen o two 359 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: amendment also set the regulation that any margarine being shipped 360 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: from one state to another was subject to the laws 361 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: of the destination state. This changed the world of margarine 362 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: manufacturing dramatically. By nineteen fourteen, fewer than one thousand retailers 363 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: were selling colored margarine compared to more than sixty two 364 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: thousand who, at least according to their records, were only 365 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: selling uncolored margarine. There's a lot of at least in 366 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: that at least according there was still a lot of 367 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: margarine fraud happening. However, enforcement on all of this was 368 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: extremely difficult, since the colored here related only to the 369 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: artificial color that was being added when the product was made. 370 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: Manufacturers started getting around that law by selling white margarine 371 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: with this little capsule of yellow food dye that could 372 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,120 Speaker 1: be worked through the product, and then eventually selling margarine 373 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: in these needable bags to make that step a lot easier, 374 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: So you would like you would break the little capsule 375 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: with it in the sealed up bag and then you 376 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: would mash it all through the bag until it was 377 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: is all yellow. This sort of surprises me, and here 378 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: is why. So you would think that the reason they 379 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: were coloring it yellow in the first place was to 380 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: make it more salable, Like it was more appealing than 381 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: something that just looked like a slab of lard. But 382 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: if you're then selling the thing that looks the way 383 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: that they were concerned, would not be appealing with a 384 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: d i y yellow like you still know that it's that. 385 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: I think then maybe did it bump up because it 386 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: became a fun kitchen crack. A lot of it was 387 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: because it just does not look very yummy to spread 388 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: lard on your toast. A lot of it had to 389 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: do with like the visual presentation once it actually got 390 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: to the your dinner table, it looks it just it 391 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: does not. The idea of slathering something that looks like 392 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: Chriscoe on my toast sounds pretty gross to me. Yeah, 393 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: I've got some people be into it. But then in 394 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: hydrogenation was discovered and hydrogenating a natural yellow yield retained 395 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: a lot more of that yellow color than previous methods 396 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: for making margarine. In the federal government applied the ten 397 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: cents of pound tax to naturally yellow margarine made with 398 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: hydrogenated oils, and in ninety three, federal law defined quote 399 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: colored margarine as anything containing quote more than one point 400 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: six degrees of yellow on the love bond tentometer. That's 401 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: a great band name too, I'd go see them. All 402 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: of these prohibitions and taxes and regulations wound up leading 403 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 1: to multiple Supreme Court cases. So, in addition to Congress 404 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: spending lots of time and energy the note passing laws 405 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: about how many degrees of yellow made colored margarine, the 406 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: Supreme Court wasn't on this action to you just has 407 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: some examples, and I'm I'm serious. These are just examples. 408 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: There are lots lots more than these examples. Powell versus 409 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania in eighty eight questioned police power to enforce a 410 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: law that said no one could have margarine under fourteenth 411 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: Amendment equal protection ground. The fourteenth Amendment, to be clear, 412 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: like the fourteenth Amendment is the amendment people have been 413 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: talking about about, like whether children with disabilities have the 414 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: right to be educated in the same classroom as children 415 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: who were not disabled, or whether whether like Brown Browner's board, 416 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: that was a Fourteenth Amendment case. The Core unanimously ruled 417 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: that the Fourteenth Amendments Equal protection clause did not apply 418 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: to buying margarine. What what as a ridiculous, ridiculous use 419 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: of the Fourteenth Amendment? Yeah? Uh. Sharlenberger versus Pennsylvania in 420 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: dealt with Rhode Island's attempt to export margarine to Pennsylvania, 421 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: where it was banned. The Supreme Court did not uphold 422 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: this import band, saying that a state couldn't ban the 423 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: import of a normal, federally taxed product. Yeah. I don't 424 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: think this would have flown if there had not been 425 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: a federal tax at that point. But the fact that was, like, Okay, 426 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: you can't, you can't have it at the state level. 427 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: Banning a product that is taxed at the federal level 428 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: was like how the Supreme Court approach this. Collins versus 429 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: New Hampshire also in eight, dealt with the New Hampshire 430 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: law that required all margarine sold in the state to 431 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: be pink, including margarine imported from out of state. This 432 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: one was also found to be unconstitutional. With the decision 433 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: including quote, where the state has not the power to 434 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: absolutely prohibit the sale of an article of commerce like 435 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: oleo margarine in its pure state, it has no power 436 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: to provide that such articles shall be colored or rather 437 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: discolored by adding a foreign substance to it. I think 438 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: we should bring back the pink margarine law. But that's 439 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: just me plumbly versus Massachusett. It's was in eighteen ninety 440 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: four and it related to the Massachusetts ban on yellow margarine, 441 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: which the court upheld as constitutional because it was not 442 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: a wholesale ban on margarine, just on yellow margine. There's 443 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: just examples. Uh. There were a whole bunch of other 444 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: Supreme Court cases about margarine as well, and about taxes 445 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: on it, and about the licensing fees and the colors 446 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: and interstate commerce, like the I read an article that 447 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: was about barriers to interstate commerce, and it was sort 448 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: of listing off all of these societal things that create 449 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: barriers and interstate commerce where states laws are incompatible with, 450 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: like shipping products across the state lines, and margarine was 451 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: listed as a barrier to interstate commerce. These federal laws 452 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: about margarine crimes. Also, we're not just an idle threat. 453 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: At least four men served time in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary 454 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: for margarine infractions, at least one of them more than once, 455 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: including evading the marjarine tax and sell in fake margarine. 456 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: I have to think, if somebody asks what you're in 457 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: for and you say marjarine fraud, You're not going to 458 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: really have much like toughness cred now, I'm thinking. So 459 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: all of this anti margarine fervor in the United States 460 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: started to shift during both of both of the World Wars, 461 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: when dairy was needed for the war effort, and also 462 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: during the Great Depression, when margarine's cheapness was a really 463 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: big selling point. During the nineteen twenties, marjarine manufacturers also 464 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: stops trying to present their product as an alternative to 465 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: butter and sort of labeling it as basically a delicious 466 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: spread and cooking ingredient that was yummy and wholesome on 467 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: its own merits. Marjarine gradually lost its association with being 468 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: a product for poor people, and the margarine industry gradually 469 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: organized itself into a more effective lobbying body, including forming 470 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: the National Association of Marjarine Manufacturers, then as the dairy 471 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: industry had done back in the eighteen eighties, the marjarine 472 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: industry started lobbying for the Oleo Margarine Act to be overturned, 473 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: and it was aided by a steep increase in the 474 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: price of butter. President Harry Truman signed the Margarine Act 475 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: of nineteen fifty, repealing the eighteen eighty six legislation. However, 476 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: individual states still had their own rules about margarine and 477 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: how it was taxed and colored. Wisconsin was the last 478 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: state to overturn its laws banning yellow margarine in nineteen 479 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: sixty seven. Uh And and also of all the states 480 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: had the most and the strictest margarine laws. It was 481 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: illegal in Wisconsin to sell an even use colored margarine. 482 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: If you wanted to go outside the state of Wisconsin 483 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: and buy colored margarine and bring it back, you were 484 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: supposed to get a consumers permit to do that, and 485 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: record all of your purchases and pay a six cents 486 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: a pound tax on those purchases every six months or 487 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: every three months. Sorry. Uh that was a vastly unpopular program. 488 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: Nobody really wanted to do it. At its peak, only 489 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty annual license this had been sold 490 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: which was in ur They were definitely way, way, way 491 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: more people crossing the state line to buy yellow margarine 492 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: in that year. Um people sort of tried to work 493 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: their minds around the fact, uh, or or consider that 494 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: probably they wouldn't get arrested because the law specified that 495 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,959 Speaker 1: it was illegal to use colored margarine, not to own it, 496 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: So you would maybe only get arrested if the officer 497 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: confiscated your lunchbox. I saw margarine on your sandwich. But 498 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: are you just gonna I don't know, Maybe you're going 499 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: to tell the police leave the margarine somewhere and not 500 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: consume it. Maybe you're just gonna tell the police that 501 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: you're margarine is just for show your collector house. I'm 502 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: a margarine collector. This is part of my museum. Uh yeah, 503 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: I'm I'm really head scratching on that one. If that's 504 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: like how you kind of morally walk yourself through It's okay, 505 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: It's okay, It's like, but is it like I have 506 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: your cake and eat it too, where you eat the 507 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: margarine and then you neither you don't own it even anymore? 508 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: I don't understand. Even so, most of the stories about 509 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: smuggling margarine are about bringing it to Wisconsin in from 510 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: neighboring states as they repealed their own bands on yellow margarine. 511 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: Service stations at the state line stocked up on it, 512 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: and friends and neighbors formed networks where they shared the 513 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: responsibility of making the trip and traveling back with a 514 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: trunk full of contraband. Wisconsin continues to van margarine in 515 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: public places unless specifically asked for an attempt to overturn 516 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: that in two thousand eleven, I did not misread that 517 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: that's two thousand eleven failed. I tried to confirm that 518 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: that is definitely still a case. And if you live 519 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: in Wisconsin and you know that it's not, then you 520 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: can just let us know. Because I went on a 521 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: hunt for that information had a hard time with it. Uh. 522 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: There are some really great first person accounts of people 523 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: who like remember waking up on Saturday morning and their 524 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: mom and all of their mom's friends would be sitting 525 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: around the table, uh like like like having the conversation 526 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: about whose turn it was to drive to Illinois, uh 527 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 1: and who paid for gas last time, and then they 528 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: would come back with this trunk full of margarine and 529 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: then put all the kids to work, like needing it 530 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: so that the yellow would be worked through before they 531 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: distributed it to all of their neighbors. It was a 532 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: whole I think you mean to all the other collectors. Yes, 533 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: because they were not going to use this margarine. They 534 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: were just going to own it. Of course, now today, 535 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: years later, both butter and margarine have still been on 536 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: the receiving end of negative health associations. In the years 537 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: since the nineteen sixties, when Marjorie became a lot more legal, 538 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: margarine got a lot of negative publicity because of transpats, 539 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: that whole hydrogenation process that made it possible to make 540 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: margarine that was already hello not actually very good for 541 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: you in a lot of ways. And then both butter 542 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: or butter has gotten a lot of bad publicity because 543 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: of saturated fats, and then both of them have been 544 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: decried is terrible because of the general trend towards fat 545 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: free and low fat foods, although there is just an 546 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: increasing body of evidence that this whole fat free, low 547 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: fat food trend is not actually healthier. We need some 548 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 1: fat put butter. You okay, Your brain is made out 549 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: of fat, literally, and all of your cellular membranes also 550 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: made out of fat, so you need it in your 551 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: not it, yeah, and also just for happiness that too, 552 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: make sure free it tastes good anyway. Butter versus, I 553 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: am still astonished that that much time and effort within 554 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court was spent arguing about marg margarine. The 555 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: longer we work on this podcast, the less and less 556 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: I'm shocked by the things that have gotten to the 557 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Yeah, arduous, angry legal battle, right right, But 558 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: if you're I guess in the industry, there's a lot 559 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: on the line, even though to us it seems silly. Yeah, 560 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 1: there were a lot of a lot of people who 561 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: were like, you are keeping especially people who are who 562 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of money. You're keeping them from 563 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: buying this like totally wholesome food product. And the dairy 564 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: industry would be like, it is made from candle wax, 565 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: and really, I mean, we have to bring back pink margarine. 566 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: That actually did happen. There was a there was like 567 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: sort of a I don't remember which of the many 568 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: many margine manufacturers it was, but they made like a 569 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: squeezable margarine that was sort of marketed as being for kids, 570 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: and it came in pink and I think grain or 571 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: something it came in two colors. Uh. I remember that 572 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: for ketchup, Yeah, but I don't remember for margarine. But 573 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: now I'm just my brain is like, oh, just get 574 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: some butter and start your route with your butter and 575 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: your flour and then add beat juice and you can 576 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,919 Speaker 1: make a pink sauce that way, Like I'm I'm making 577 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: pink food. I have some I have some friends who 578 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: make compounded margarine, not compounded margine. They make compound and butter. 579 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: I don't know why I just said margine, but so 580 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: they'll like work all kinds of delicious herbs. Or they 581 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: made a bloody mary compounded margine. I know that's not 582 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: that's not your jam, but it is. It is my 583 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 1: jam to have like bloody mary seasonings in the butter. 584 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: It was great. You're making the worst, most disgusted face. 585 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: So anyway, I'm just like a Martini margarine or a 586 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: Martini compounded butter. It would not surprise me anyway. So 587 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: I am imagining that if you wanted, there is a 588 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: similar compounding method that you could use to color your better. Yeah, 589 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: for sure, like I said, beat juice, it's probably something 590 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: I'm in interous about it. Uh so that is butter 591 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: versus Margarine got a listener mail. I do have listener mails. 592 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: It is jovial and fun as butter versus our treat. 593 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 1: It's kind of fun, it's interesting. It's from Doosphine. Doosphine says, Hello, ladies. 594 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: When I was listening to your most recent Unearthed episode, 595 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: I was very interested in your discussion of what was 596 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: happening in Salem and what locals thought about their town's 597 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: history and the tourism that happens there. A few years ago, 598 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 1: a friend and I went to Boston and made a 599 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: day trip to Salem. It poured buckets nearly all day, 600 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: but despite that, we had an amazing time. My friend 601 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: said she almost preferred Salem to Boston. I admit it. 602 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: I originally went because of the history of the witch trials, 603 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: though more because it was dark and less because of 604 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: halloweenish connotations. But when we got there, the first place 605 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: we stopped, by total chance, was the Salem Visitor Center. 606 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 1: I am so glad we did. The gentleman who talked 607 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: to us took up, took us on a tour of 608 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: the Friendship yes that's the actual name of the ship, 609 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: and then to the Salem Custom House and told us 610 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: a lot about the trading history of the town. I'd 611 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 1: had no idea that they were a major port. We 612 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: also talked about Nathaniel Hawthorne and his influence on in 613 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 1: time in Salem. Overall, we talked little about the witch 614 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: trials because there was so much history to talk about, 615 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: regardless when they did come up, however, he voiced an 616 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: opinion very similar to what you ladies were saying. They 617 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: were innocent people who were executed. He talked a lot 618 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: about how disrespectful the more kitchy attractions were, and told 619 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: us about a trolley that used to have little dolls 620 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: hanging from their next along the ride along the side, 621 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: which in context of what was really happening, is horrifying 622 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: to spot. I'd share my little story and encourage anyone 623 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: who visits Salem to head to the visitor center first. 624 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: It's a good way to find out how much there 625 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: is to see there and get good insight on how 626 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: the inhabitants feel about their history. And everyone should visit 627 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: Salem if they can. It's a truly wonderful place. Keep 628 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: up the podcasting, Sincerely, Josephine. I wanted to thank Josephine 629 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: for sending this letter, and I wanted to read it 630 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: because I also took a day day trip to Salem 631 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 1: last fall, uh, and I went to some awesome places. 632 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: You can go to the House of the Seven Gables 633 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: there um and you can learn all kinds of stuff 634 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: about Nathaniel Hawthorne. I went there. You can go to 635 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: the pbod Essex Museum, which I went there, and they 636 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: have all kinds of really amazing art. And then they 637 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: also have a Chinese house, uh, the kind of historical 638 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: Chinese home that was built around a courtyard in the center, 639 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: and they moved the entire house to the museum, and 640 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: there is an audio tour where you can tour the 641 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: whole house and hear about the whole house's history and 642 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 1: the history of the family who lived there. I also 643 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: went on a walking tour with Nancy who was a 644 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: listener of the show, and that was from Salem Historical Tours, 645 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: and that was awesome. So there's a lot of awesome 646 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: other history in Salem besides just the witch trial history. 647 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: And there are some people such as Salem Historical Tours 648 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: who are doing the witch trial history and a pretty 649 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: thorough and respectful and not a historical way, Like, there's 650 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: definitely a lot of witch trial stuff in Salem that 651 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: is not particularly respectful, but there are definitely parts of 652 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: it that are Yay, I have to confess I've never 653 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: been I'm so overdue. It's a it's a cool play. 654 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,320 Speaker 1: I like, it's very easy to get there from Boston 655 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: because you can take the ferry nice and then you 656 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: can walk from the ferry terminal to wherever you aren't nice. 657 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: So if you're like me, you don't have a car, 658 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: makes it really cool. And it also meant that I 659 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 1: didn't have to fight traffic on the way back. Correct. Um. So, 660 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: if you would like to write to us about this 661 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: or any other podcast, where a history podcast at how 662 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. We're also on Facebook at facebook 663 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: dot com slash miss in history and on Twitter at 664 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: miss in history. Are tumbler is missing history dot tumbler 665 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: dot com, and we're also on Pinterest at pittriest dot 666 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: com slash missed in History. We have an Instagram that 667 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: is at missed in History. Also, if you would like 668 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: to learn more about what we talked about today, you 669 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: can come to our parent company's website, which is how 670 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: Stuff works dot com and there is all kinds of 671 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: information about food of all types. You can also come 672 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: to our website, which is missed in history dot com, 673 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: where you will find show notes for all the episodes 674 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: that Holly and I have ever done. You will find 675 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,919 Speaker 1: uh archive of every episode we've ever had. You will 676 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: find information about our live shows that we have coming 677 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: up this summer and fall. So you can do all 678 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,719 Speaker 1: that and a whole lot more at how stuff works 679 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: dot com or miss in the history dot com for 680 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: more onness and thousands of other topics. Is it how 681 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com