WEBVTT - How to Make It Last Forever, Part Two 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.160 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:14.800 Forward Thinking. Pay there everyone, and welcome to Forward Thinking, 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.400 the podcast that looks in the future and says inside 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:21.480 the museum's infinity goes up on trial. I'm Jonathan Strickland 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.639 and I'm Joe McCormick. And this is going to be 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.960 part two of our two part episode about how to 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.960 make It Last Forever, about the future of historical preservation 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:35.960 and restoration, how to take the present and make it 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.480 go the long haul. So if you haven't heard part 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:40.880 one yet, you should go back and check out part 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.280 one of this episode. We need to make a bunch 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.080 of references to things we've already said. So you've I mean, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:47.720 I have faith in you guys. You're pretty quick on 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.120 the uptake, you know, just just to head off any confusion. Sure, 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:56.360 but without further ado, here is part due. It belongs 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:03.080 in the museum. I hope that those that goes right 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:10.199 into my rant about how they Okay, But let's run 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:13.199 back to the past a little bit more. In fact, 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.080 let's run farther back than we did with the idea 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.080 of like an oil painting from the Renaissance. What about 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.120 the condition of archaeological artifacts. Yeah, I want to pose 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:27.440 the question, what's the future of stealing artifacts from other 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:36.679 cultures and putting in them in your own museums? Okay, 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:39.920 this is mostly a cheeky Indiana la Do you have 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:45.800 an opinion? Is it Lauren's rant time? No? No, it's not. 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.160 It's okay, Well, I mean to actually, actually a kind 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.160 of is because the past hundred and fifty years or 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.000 so have included a whole lot of rich white people 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.360 falling so much in love with another culture that they 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.600 went there, bought and or just took a bunch of 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.520 their stuff, and then brought it back home for private 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:06.600 or public display. Well, clearly because these rich white people 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:11.360 realize that whatever indigenous population isn't going to take the 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.600 efforts to preserve that art, they have to take it 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.120 on themselves. Well, and it's not enriching anyone's culture if 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.520 they just leave it there, but they can enrich the 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:21.680 lives of other rich white people if they bring it 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.480 back to theirs. But I completely agree with it. I 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.080 am in fact now ranting. But you know so that 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:35.400 that sucks. We we generally try not to do that anymore. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.280 And there are some digital steps that are being taken 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.920 to bring artifacts to interested parties without ever having to 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.160 remove the pieces. We've talked about museums and cultural centers 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.919 use of virtual reality and and a lot of organizations 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.480 like that are hosting as many of their or as 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.040 much of their collections online as possible and in really 0:02:56.120 --> 0:03:00.480 high quality photographs for free. But see an image of 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.920 a thing is not the same as seeing a thing, 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.600 there's sure, and well, I mean, one thing you can 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.040 just rely on these days, hopefully to have some exchange, 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.280 Like if you want to see artifacts from somewhere on 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:13.360 the other side of the world, is that plenty of 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.840 museums today do exhibit exchanges, right, there will be a 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:21.840 traveling exhibit where something from Egypt comes to your local museum. 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:25.400 Oh sure. And that, actually, I think is really that 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:31.320 kind of international cooperation is the real future of dealing 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.320 with with artifacts and sharing that kind of information across cultures. 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:41.360 And it really gives me the work fundies every tomb version. Right. 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.400 But you know, unfortunately, even if you leave a thing 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:47.960 where you found it, or even if you have constructed 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:51.200 a very careful museum exhibit in which it can travel, 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.800 public visitation presents lots of problems for artifacts because even 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.440 if you're if you're a cautious tourist who's not going 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.440 around like poking the oil paintings or climbing on the statues, 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.000 flash photography, taking flash photography, you're doing things like like 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:13.240 opening doors, or possessing a body temperature that's higher than 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:17.680 the air around you, or or breathing. Uh, people are 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:21.159 lousy with breath just all the time, and and all 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:25.360 all of these things create fluctuations in the temperature and humidity, 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.320 which we have talked about is being not good. So 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.120 let me guess there's a technology that will prevent us 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:35.720 from breathing. I actually can name quite a few. Yeah. No, 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.400 humans have made a lot of technologies that prevent people 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.320 from breathing in the long run. No, no, it's not there. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.400 But there is a project that is attempting to solve 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:54.000 these problems by replicating the artwork, replicating specifically China's. And 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.680 I'm probably gonna say this wrong. I'm really sorry, magol. 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.839 I think it's how you say Mago caves. Uh, it 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:04.000 looks like Mogau if you're if you're a dumb American, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:05.960 But I don't think that's how you say it. Anyway, 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.520 it's a series of four hundred and nine two caves 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:11.719 that were carved out of a cliff face in the 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.039 Goulbi Desert and decorated by Buddhist monks and scholars and 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:21.760 merchants from around three hundred to drede there. I don't 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.919 have words to describe them that I can really say 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.960 on air. They're they're, they're they're beautiful. They're really awesome. 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.400 Um and that a local academy called the Don Huang 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.359 Academy has teamed up with Los Angeles Getty Conservation Institute 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.560 to painstakingly recreate three of these caves and and all 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.200 of their painted walls and ceilings and all of their 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:48.040 statuary and take them on international tours and exhibitions. One 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.239 of these brooms has been touring around Asia for a while. 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:52.120 They're going to hit the US for the first time 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.200 in May of twenty six. And it's as though you 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.880 put pyramid ceilings in like large two car garages and 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.520 then covered them in an amazing artwork over the course 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:08.080 of centuries. They're they're really beautiful. Well, yeah, I'm all 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.640 in favor of that. I think that's really cool. Like, 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.040 in fact, i've seen plenty of that already in in 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.040 the more like a natural natural history kind of setting 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.480 right right, Yeah, because dinosaur bones that you see in 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.000 a museum are probably not made of dinosaur bones. They're 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:28.000 they're probably a plastic print of a dinosaur or mold. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.719 I'm thinking of their St John's Castle in Limerick, Ireland. 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:38.680 Um phenomenal if you are interested in medieval Renaissance history. 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:44.040 It's a fantastic museum that also tries to recreate that 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:50.040 experience of of not just you know, the castle at 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.080 its height, but how it was built. And so they 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.400 actually take advantage of the ruins to tell you how 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:59.000 that section was created because you can see the cross sections. 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:05.000 So so cool. A cool thing about uh presenting information 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:10.840 in a way that is combining the original work with 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.880 either a virtual representation or with uh with with replicas 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:21.600 to get across the wonder without actually damaging that original work. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.800 Sure sure uh. And and like with paintings, there's some 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.000 pretty high tech techniques that are that are being used 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.280 to to study artifacts that have been worn down over 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.880 time without damaging them any further. For example, some researchers 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.840 out of the Nelson Atkins Museum of Art in Missouri 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:44.560 found that a scanning acoustic microscope can be used to 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.720 reveal impressions and metal that have been worn invisible to 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.200 the human eye. You know, for example, a smith's hallmark 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.480 in in polished silver, or the design that was stamped 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.240 into a coin. Uh, metal that has been worn smooth 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:04.120 can still contain areas of compression and deformation where the 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.480 stamps or the engravings were applied. And and so by 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.920 taking these careful acoustic scans, you can really reveal the 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:14.360 original patterns and and therefore, you know, you can let 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.640 historians know when and where and how the piece was created. 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:20.160 This is kind of like the zoom and enhance of 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.280 archaeological world. Yeah, it's really I mean, I wouldn't have 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.760 never thought this would have been possible. It's pretty incredible. Okay, 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.440 So a lot of these things that we're discussing, though, 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:35.200 are at least somewhat static in nature. Like they're there 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.720 a thing that has, you know, at some level, been 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.479 carved or printed, or or developed in the case of film, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.800 or painted, and it's supposed to stay the way it is. 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:51.000 But what about things that are supposed to work? And 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.960 I'm thinking, like a machine, what if we want to 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:58.720 keep a machine that has working parts and moving bits. 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:03.840 You know here, just machines are never art Now, I 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.440 have a few terminator friends who would take offense at 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:12.360 that statement, but I'll say that machines aren't artists. Those 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:17.800 those artistic cyborgs are fine, right right, Um, they do 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.120 not deal with bad reviews very well. No, no, no, no, 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:25.640 you should never give your robot artists lasers. Mistig number 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.000 one the example, I'm thinking about his classic cars, I 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.560 don't know much of I'm not really a car guy. 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.200 I've said then here before. I don't know. I don't 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.240 know a whole lot about cars, and personally don't care 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.880 a whole lot about cars. But there are definitely people 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.400 who see real artistry in like a great classic car, 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.199 and keeping a classic car restored has got to be 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.520 a somewhat different proposition from keeping a painting or a 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.560 film restored. Well, it's fine that she used the word restored, 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.480 because there are actually two different versions that are the preserved. 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.520 Oh yeah, yeah, preserved or restored. Yeah, whatever it means 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:03.280 to key that car looking and working like it did 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.240 when it was new. Right. So I had a brief 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:10.080 conversation with Scott Benjamin who is one of the hosts 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:14.160 of Car Stuff, an amazing podcasts made out of house 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:20.000 to works, Great show, and Scott is an encyclopedia of 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:24.600 auto knowledge. Up. Great guy and yeah, just a genuinely 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.080 awesome guy. I would I would pose it that in fact, 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.720 in this office office, he's the best of all of us. 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.400 I'm never ever going to give anyone that title over myself. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:39.080 But I understand where you're coming from. Uh so I can't. 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:45.960 I know that that's physically here you go. So I 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.280 talked with him, and really there are two two methods 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.840 of kind of two philosophies, you might say, when it 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:58.120 comes to keeping classic cars in really good condition, and 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.560 sometimes it just depends upon the condition and of the 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.000 car when you take possession of it. So there's restoration, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.559 and restoration is exactly what sounds like. You are replacing 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:11.160 original parts in the car with new parts. Those parts 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.600 maybe brand new as a new machine them so that 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.880 they will fit into the classic car and whatever capacity 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.360 it was meant to. Or it may be something that 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.880 you salvage from another car of that same make and 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.480 model and you've taken it off one and put it 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.360 onto another because of some defect or or damage that 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.240 was done to the car in question. But this leads 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:37.640 to a kind of philosophical problem, doesn't because you may 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.040 have encountered this in a philosophy class. So if my 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.480 uncle gives me an act of magnificent power as a gift, 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.600 which we have not had in this studio for a 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.000 long time, right, But I want to preserve this act 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.640 of magnificent power. Except the problem is, uh, the handle 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.040 gets damaged, so then I have to replace the handle, 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.160 and then a little bit later the axe head. It's 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.080 damaged and I have to replace the axe head. Is 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:06.040 it still the same acts of magnificent power if all 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.400 the pieces of it are not the original pieces? Right? 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.120 This is the ship of Theseus paradox, where the idea 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.720 being if you had a ship, and throughout the lifetime 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.679 of that ship, at some point or another you had 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.720 replaced every single element on that ship at least once, 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:25.800 would it truly still be the same ship? Would it? 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.720 Would there be the spirit of spirit or a car 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.200 or so? Yeah? I think of this instead. It's a buick, 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.199 all right, So you've got a buick theseus. The Theseus 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.280 is buick. There's a sweet ride. Let me tell you, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.720 but at some point or another, you have replaced every 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.600 single part of that buick. Could it truly be the 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.920 same car? And there's some in the in the classic 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.520 car collector circle who would say no, it doesn't mean 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.560 that the restoration is bad, or that it's not a 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.559 beautiful thing, or that it doesn't work well right. It 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.480 could be all of those things. It could be gorgeous, 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.480 it could be it could work like a dream. It 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.720 could just be an amazing example of a restored vehicle. 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.720 But there are competitions where people will bring cars in 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.320 to be considered for awards, and some of them are 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.000 restoration competitions where it's perfectly fine to bring a vehicle 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:23.480 in that's been restored, and others are preservation competitions. The 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.680 idea being that you have UH used conservation and preservation 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:32.400 techniques to keep a car in its original form, not 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:36.680 replacing anything usually major. You might have replaced little things 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.440 like tires or something, but try to keep as many 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.920 of the original parts intact as possible, UH, including things 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.960 like the paint and the chrome. The idea being preserving 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:48.880 as much of it as you possibly can. I was 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.040 reading a story about a guy who had a car, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:54.840 and he said, the funny thing is I've replaced some parts, 0:13:55.200 --> 0:14:00.720 so I couldn't enter it into the preservation uh competitions 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:02.760 because there are too many parts that have been replaced, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.679 but I haven't replaced enough parts, so I couldn't put 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.199 it into the restoration competitions either. It's a really awesome 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.400 looking car, but it doesn't fit in either category. And 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.760 then Scott pointed out that there's also another version, and 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:21.480 this is interesting because it goes beyond preservation. It's the restore. 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:28.000 Restore mods are what they're called modified restored vehicles. So 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.960 this is where you would take an old vehicle, you 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.000 would restore it and you might replace uh something with 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.280 some you know, modern amenities, like a modern engine in 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.600 a in a classic nineteen thirties vehicle, so that it 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.480 can suddenly go a lot faster, or it's much more 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.600 efficient with fuel or whatever, or or I don't know, 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.320 you put in a modern sound system, or you put 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.160 on giant devil horns. Right, yeah, you could just have 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.000 like the various spouts that shoot up flank, or if 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.520 you just put on modern truck nuts. What if you 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.960 and stall a series of massive speakers and a guy 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.600 stands in front of your vehicle and plays guitar with 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.080 flame shooting out the end of the entire time. I 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:15.320 want that doufwagon. So yeah, I mean we're big do fans, 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.320 all right. So if you want to learn more about 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.960 car preservation as well as just all sorts of car 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:26.720 related topics, definitely check out car Stuff because Scott really, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.280 I mean, he knows that world inside and out and 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.120 has a lot to say about this. And they cover 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:39.160 all sorts of topics, including old classic car models and 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:43.600 makes that aren't really you know, available these days. Okay, 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.000 I got another one that's alright, more along the lines 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.600 of the film preservation. How about audio? Sure, Yeah, I 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.400 mean when it comes to audio preservation, actually there are 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.440 some things that are exactly like film. Imagine all those 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.440 radio broadcasts, some of which were recorded, you know, you 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.400 want to be able to preserve those. There are lots 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.520 that were never recorded. So those those radio broadcasts went 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.480 out and that was it. Fortunately, the Jerky Boys will 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.720 always be in historical memory. Thank Heaven for that. All right. So, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.000 the National Recording Preservation Foundation is an organization here in 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.440 the United States dedicated to preserving sound specifically, and this 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:24.680 is a quote from their site, America's Unparalleled Radio music 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.440 and Recorded Sound Heritage end quote. Uh. Now, it's not 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.840 just about keeping them safe, but also making them available 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.280 for research, education, and the simple pleasure of listening to sound. 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.200 So in other words, like like film, it wouldn't do 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:38.600 you any good if you just threw it in a 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.000 room and didn't allow anyone to ever go in there, right, 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:45.040 I mean, yeah, you're right, this stuff would exist, but 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.720 without anyone to look at it doesn't matter. Kind of 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.520 like if we talk about the art that if we 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.400 remove it from its its place, it could ruin that art, 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:59.000 but no one can get to that place, does it 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:04.000 ultimately mad? But at any rate there there's again, just 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.280 like I was talking about with film, it's tricky to 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.399 to preserve audio recordings for the same general reasons you 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.159 have to worry about do you concentrate on protecting the 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.800 physical media itself, so for example, tape or vinyl records 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.000 or c d s or whatever it may be that 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.240 the music was stored upon. Even if you do keep 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.280 it in really good condition, you then also have to 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:32.200 have the accompanying mechanical apparatus that plays it right, right, Yeah, Yeah, 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:37.080 the most perfectly preserved c d uh. Well, let's take 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.600 for example, I don't know that the most perfectly preserved 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.920 ZIP disk Okay, yeah, is it necessarily going to help 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.960 you play your MP three's right? Yeah, even if you 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.600 had like an entirely boss collection of music on there, 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:55.200 if there's no no like device to plug into your 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.919 computer so that you can access it, or the drivers 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:00.680 necessary for your comp it or to be able to 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.200 interact with that, there's a lot of stuff here right. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.080 Digitized music has similar issues. If you digitize stuff, then 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:12.359 you have to think, well, sure, my, my various devices 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.680 and computers can play this particular style of music file 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:20.360 right now. But there's no reason to assume that this 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.479 particular style, like this type of file will be the 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.480 same forever. Like in in fifty years, it may be 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.440 that no one uses this particular file type anymore. So 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.439 that means you have to build in a plan what 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.120 do we do to make sure that all this digital 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:42.000 music can be preserved? Um? And that might mean transferring 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:48.320 that file type to another file type repeatedly as things evolved. Also, 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.840 all this music would be existing on some device or another. 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.480 The digital music, it's not like it would just be 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.440 ones and zeros in the air, so you have to 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.479 worry about that too, Like what cool devices currently are 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.840 storing them? And do you have backups? Do you have redundancy? 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:06.800 Do you have a way of transferring it from to 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.840 another machine when that machine has lived out as useful life? 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.480 In these days, there's a fair amount of redundancy, And 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.639 how most of these types of things are stored, Like 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.240 there are a lot of copies out there usually, yes, 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:22.000 especially for digital music. I mean, you know Pirate Bay alone. 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.040 You know that brings up another thing where I think 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.719 there are two very different ways of approaching the question, 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.560 and that is books. Now, books is something that's going 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.280 to be kind of like the issue I brought up 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.440 with movies, where you know, is it could would you 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.919 say it's preserved if it only exists in a VHS copy, 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.800 Except it's going to be a little bit different because 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:51.960 you can completely entirely preserve the essence of a work 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.480 of literature without a physical form at all. Because the 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.160 very idea of writing in text is I mean depending 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.119 on like if as a original illustrations or something like that, 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.080 but if it's dependence upon the appearance upon the page, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.439 but it's the because sponsor works of art as well. Yeah. Absolutely, So. 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.600 The entire point of language is that it is encoding, 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.400 and it's so the the content of work of literature. 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.880 You can encode in language that should have the exact 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.840 same value no matter where it's transferred, if you use 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.920 the same sequence of code. So you know, the iliad 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:31.399 in an ancient document should have the same literary value 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.560 as the iliad on an e reader, but it wouldn't 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.439 have exactly the same esthetic value. Because books and whatever 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:42.600 type of medium you use for a work of literature, 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.159 like a bound code X or a scroll or something 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.840 like that, those things can be beautiful, aesthetically pleasing and 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.439 worth preserving all on their own, as they give a 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.560 blind poet. But go ahead, right, So I mean, I 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.159 guess we should look at this at preserving works of 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:02.040 literature in both forms like physical book as a sort 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.560 of work of art on its own, and then also 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.920 the text, which is a much easier proposition. I almost 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:10.800 want to argue the easier part, but I'll get there. 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.920 Let's talk about the physical part first, the physical part. 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:19.199 There's there's this great pamphlet really from Cornell University about 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.720 how to preserve books and This was written specifically for 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.879 people who have a home library and they're concerned about 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.360 I want to keep these books in really good conditions. 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:32.040 So what do professional libraries do you know, or you know, 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.600 established libraries, whether the research or whatever, what did they 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.840 do to make certain their books remain in great shape? Well? 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.080 And the first steps are like all the other stuff 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.879 we've been talking about, is is basically just controlling the 0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:46.800 temperature and humidity. Yeah, you want the relative humidity to 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.720 be somewhere between thirty and you don't want there to 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.520 be so much humidity. Don't don't read your precious books 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.520 in the bathtub. Certainly don't read them in the shower. 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.200 I've gone through so many copies of good Omens that way. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:01.359 That's not even a joke. I have read. I have 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:04.240 read and ruined multiple copies of good omens in the bath. 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.480 The bath, by the way, perfect place to read good omens. Um. So, 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:10.480 you want between thirty and six humidity for the same 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:13.439 reasons we talked about with the oil paintings. Too high humidity, 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.120 mold can form too low, and then your pages can 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:21.080 become brittle. Uh. You also want to dust the books 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:25.200 regularly to help prevent mold from growing. Since dust can 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.800 contain mold spores, Cornell recommends using a vacuum with a 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:33.720 HEPA filtration system and brush attachment. Oh we've talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.120 Keep the room dark, um, if you want as little 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:39.520 light if there as possible, whatever, especially when you're just 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:41.280 storing the books. You want as a little light in 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:43.800 there as possible. But you certainly don't want sunlight, and 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:45.560 you want to cut down on the UV radiation for 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:47.960 the same reasons we talked about with the oil painting. Now, 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.800 do libraries tell you that you need to be quiet 0:22:50.840 --> 0:22:54.760 because sound damages the books? No, they tell you to 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.520 be quiet because people are trying to read. What what 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.760 kind of library are you talking about? Well, you gotta 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.520 remember I went to libraries shortly after the invention of 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:07.359 the written word. So don't store leather books next to 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.080 cloth or paper books. That's what Cornell suggests, because if 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:14.320 they are stored next to each other, the dyes in 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:17.840 the leather can bleed out and end up staining the 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:21.320 books on either side of it. Uh. You shouldn't have 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:23.920 your books packed into tightly on a shelf. They can 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:27.159 be snug, but not so tight so that they're scrunching 0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:32.240 the spines, glue or the sewing it's contained. Also, if 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:35.040 you store your books so that the so the covers 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:37.360 of like sizes are next to each other, that will 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:41.159 provide the most structural support for each cover. Yeah. If 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:43.880 if it's a particularly large book, then obviously you want 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:48.800 to uh to store it on its flat side. Um. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:50.480 But as long as you want the shelf to be 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:52.800 deep enough so it completely covers the book. One of 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:55.560 the important things about shelves they want they say, you know, 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:57.960 you want to push your books back as far I 0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:00.600