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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: and there's Charles to be Chuck Brian over there, and

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Speaker 1: Jerry's over there. The three amigos equal in every single way,

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Speaker 1: shape and form. Uh. And that makes this, of course

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Speaker 1: stuff you should know, which is basically its own sovereign

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Speaker 1: nation of equality. M yeah, oh yeah, man, come on

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Speaker 1: me thought Jerry had more power than we did. Nope,

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Speaker 1: not a drop more nor drop less. Nary you drop less? Charles, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do too. It's a nice place to be, It's

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Speaker 1: a nice state to live in, you know, mentally and

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Speaker 1: physically agreed. I think here at the beginning, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do a rare We're not gonna read a listener mail,

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Speaker 1: but a rare front loaded listener mail alert. We got

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Speaker 1: um first of all. A couple of years ago, a

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Speaker 1: woman named Graine Bailey suggested the topic of the Equal

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Speaker 1: Rights Amendment uh, and at the time pointed out the

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Speaker 1: difference between the words suffragette and suffragist. I clearly did

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Speaker 1: not read that email close enough, because it took an

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Speaker 1: email last week after one of us said suffragette in

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Speaker 1: a in a recent episode. Uh, and a woman named

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Speaker 1: Mary malan Oscars emailed and said, hey, by the way,

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Speaker 1: look it up. I mean she wasn't mean, she was

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Speaker 1: very nice. That sounded like I was being not too nice.

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Speaker 1: She's very nice about it. She said, you know, look

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Speaker 1: it up. There's a suffragette is sort of a disparaging

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Speaker 1: term rather than suffragist, and it was tagged by you know,

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Speaker 1: reporters in the early nineteen hundreds a thing and I

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Speaker 1: think in Britain to mock people fighting for the women's

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Speaker 1: right to vote. And I didn't know that until then.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to know, so thank you Mary. Once you

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Speaker 1: hear that, it's it makes total sense, you know. Well,

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Speaker 1: of course, I just I don't know. I never knew that.

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Speaker 1: I never thought about it. I didn't either. This is

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Speaker 1: how people learn stuff. I just assumed you were making

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Speaker 1: a Bowie reference in the episode. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: you that said I'm pretty sure with you, all right,

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Speaker 1: Well either way, let's go with you. Okay, okay, we

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Speaker 1: probably both did, or more more to the point, probably

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Speaker 1: was me. But either way, that was a I think,

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Speaker 1: hats off to you, buddy, for for coming up with

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Speaker 1: that one. Well, I'll not say it again. You know what, Oh,

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Speaker 1: you won't say it anymore? No, of course not. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I thought you said, well, and i'll say it again.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the opposite of what you were just saying, No,

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Speaker 1: I won't. So we're talking today about the Equal Rights Amendment, which,

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Speaker 1: um is it represents a really like discouragingly long swath

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Speaker 1: of American history. Um. But if you set if you

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Speaker 1: look at the whole thing just from a historian's eye

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Speaker 1: or even an anthropologist side, it's really really interesting the

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Speaker 1: history of this, the Equal Rights Amendment. If you kind

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Speaker 1: of look at it much more subjectively and empathetic, empathically, empathetically,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot harder to swallow, but it's still interesting. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 1: And the yeah, so the Equal Rights Amendment is a

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Speaker 1: constitutional amendment, a proposed constitutional amendment that would give women,

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Speaker 1: um equal protection under the law to men that you

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Speaker 1: could not discriminate you, No, you couldn't make a law

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Speaker 1: that discriminated on the basis of sex. And I'll bet

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people out there chuck that say, well,

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Speaker 1: that's already in the constitution, isn't it. Because there was

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Speaker 1: a poll that the AP conducted into they found that

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Speaker 1: about the people they they contacted thought that there was

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Speaker 1: already equal protection for for women in the constitution. That's

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Speaker 1: just not the case. But the same poll found of

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Speaker 1: those respondents were in favor of enshrining that protection in

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Speaker 1: the Constitution. So it's kind of weird that it's not

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Speaker 1: in there. If people think it's already in there, and

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Speaker 1: then when they find out it's not, they're in favor

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Speaker 1: of it overwhelmingly. Yeah, and been we you know, we

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Speaker 1: just happen to live in a country where pent of

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Speaker 1: the American public could be in favor of certain legislation

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Speaker 1: and it would you know, could very possibly fall on

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Speaker 1: deaf ears when it comes to our politicians. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: because bipartisan support has been defined in recent times as

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Speaker 1: you know, what the Houses of Congress agree to, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily what the public agrees to, which is a different

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Speaker 1: form of bipartisanship. And to me, if you ask me,

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Speaker 1: the more important one, like if the if the public

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Speaker 1: generally agrees on something, go with that. It seems like

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Speaker 1: since they're elected representatives in on Christ they should kind

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Speaker 1: of go with that. So h yes, I can't wait.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be there's gonna be a lot of big

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Speaker 1: changes around here, everybody. Yes, it should we kind of

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Speaker 1: go back to the beginnings. Yes we should, because it's

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Speaker 1: you know, I associate the e r A with the

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Speaker 1: seventies and the Ways Live movement, as we'll see. But

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Speaker 1: it goes back a lot further than that. Yeah, it does.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's crazy to think that since the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenties they've been trying to get this enshrined in

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Speaker 1: the constitution and it still isn't in the year one.

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Speaker 1: But that is the case. Um. The first versions of

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Speaker 1: the Equal Rights Amendment were written up in the early

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Speaker 1: twenties by a suffragist UH named Alice Paul. Um. Some

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Speaker 1: other women, notably one Crystal Eastman, also helped out a lot,

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Speaker 1: and they also helped get the Nineteenth Amendment pass, which

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Speaker 1: gave women the right to vote UH in nineteen twenty

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Speaker 1: and they got together and said, UM, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think the next step, obviously should be just to go

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Speaker 1: ahead and put this in the constitution, that women have

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Speaker 1: equal rights like men in all facets of life. It's

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Speaker 1: worth pointing out here, UM that Um paul was a

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Speaker 1: Quaker and a leader of the National Women's Party for

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Speaker 1: like fifty years or something. Uh. And the reason I

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Speaker 1: mentioned she was a Quaker because she actually named the

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Speaker 1: amendment the Lucretia Mott Amendment, after another Quaker woman from

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century who was also a suffragists as well

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Speaker 1: as an abolitionist. Yeah, if you peel back, you know,

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Speaker 1: the layer of early twentieth century or nineteenth century progressive

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Speaker 1: there's a about a percent chance they were a Quaker.

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Speaker 1: All sorts of good stuff during It's pretty interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really is. We should do one on the Quakers

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Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah. I have a friend who's a Quaker,

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Speaker 1: and uh, she talks about Quaker meetings and Quaker weddings

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Speaker 1: and stuff, and it all just seems so chill and peaceful.

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Speaker 1: It's very appealing, right, Um. But so Lucretia Mott apparently

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Speaker 1: was among what's considered the the beginning of the first

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Speaker 1: wave of feminism. Where was you know, Um, not only

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Speaker 1: do women need the right to vote? And this is

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Speaker 1: like the eighteen thirties, eighteen forties, I think, because when

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Speaker 1: she was really beginning to be active, Um, not only

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Speaker 1: should women have the right to vote, but um, these

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Speaker 1: people were also very frequently also abolitionists. Right, So when

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Speaker 1: UM Congress started passing laws that protected the rights, that

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Speaker 1: enshrined the rights of African Americans into the Constitution, into

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Speaker 1: the law of the land, saying you cannot discriminate against

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Speaker 1: people who based on their because their African Americans are

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Speaker 1: based on their race. UM, women said, well, hey, just

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Speaker 1: add sex in there, add sex, like, let's let's put

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Speaker 1: that into the fourteenth Amendment. And UM, that didn't make it.

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Speaker 1: It didn't make it into any of the amendments. And

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Speaker 1: that was a I don't think it caused a rift

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Speaker 1: or anything like that, but I think it was extremely

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Speaker 1: disappointing to the suffragists who had also worked for abolition

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Speaker 1: as well, that the two things couldn't go hand in hand. So, UM,

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Speaker 1: African Americans started to gain civil rights decades before women did.

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Speaker 1: Women gained the right to vote, UM, and women just

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Speaker 1: kind of had to carry on. The suffragist movement continued

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Speaker 1: on even after the abolitionist movement was successful. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then nineteen three Alice Paul said, well, here's what we'll do,

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Speaker 1: will reward this amendment that we've written. So it sounds

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Speaker 1: more constitutional, I guess, And so it sounds a little

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Speaker 1: more like the fourteenth Amendment, and the new version basically

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Speaker 1: said equal rights. I'm sorry, equality of rights under the

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Speaker 1: law shall not be denied or a bridge by the

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Speaker 1: United States or by any state on account of sex.

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Speaker 1: And you know, once again, this was proposed and um,

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Speaker 1: you know for about thirty years in most sessions I

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Speaker 1: think every session of Congress, every single one, and didn't

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Speaker 1: get a lot of support. Um. And you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not to say that all men in politics were against it,

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Speaker 1: but it certainly was not their legislative priority, clearly. And

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Speaker 1: if you have a run from n to nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: with only ten women serving in the Senate, never more

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Speaker 1: than two at a time, then the writings on the

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Speaker 1: wall that the e r A is is not just

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Speaker 1: it's just not going to be a top priority. I know.

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Speaker 1: But that's sad writing, you know what I mean, Like

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Speaker 1: the fact that there weren't women, uh in Congress. It

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Speaker 1: certainly doesn't let men off the hook like they can't

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Speaker 1: do they can't pass this, can't possibly take up legislation

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Speaker 1: that guarantees the equal rights to women because we're moon

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Speaker 1: you know, like that's that's very bothersome. But there's something

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Speaker 1: else in there, chuck. So from nineteen twenty three when

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Speaker 1: Alice Paul first introduced that, all the way through to

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Speaker 1: nine seventy, it was taken up in every session of

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Speaker 1: Congress and it failed. And one of the things that

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Speaker 1: stuck out to me was that there was a guy

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Speaker 1: who um oversaw the House I think the House Judiciary Committee, um,

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Speaker 1: and he was a Democrat from New York and he

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Speaker 1: put the kai bosh on it. Emmanuel Seller. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: he put the kai bosh on. He would not let

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Speaker 1: it get to a vote. And I was like, why

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Speaker 1: this guy was a Democrat in New York, what was

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Speaker 1: his problem? And it turns out that the opposition to

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Speaker 1: the e r A, which is now very clearly amongst

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Speaker 1: like it's liberals are for it, Progressives are for it,

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Speaker 1: Conservatives are typically against it. Um. It used to be

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Speaker 1: flip flopped where the liberals, especially New Deal liberals like

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Speaker 1: Eleanor Roosevelt, were against the Equal Rights Amendment and conservatives

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Speaker 1: like Eisenhower conservatives were typically in favor of it. In

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Speaker 1: that bizarre yeah it is. I mean Roosevelt, she had

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Speaker 1: her reasons. She wasn't just like, oh, I don't think

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Speaker 1: women should have rights. I think she said, you know,

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Speaker 1: she thought it would undermine workplace protections. Um. She was

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Speaker 1: a part of Kennedy's commission. She chaired the commission, the

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Speaker 1: President's Commission on the Status of Women, which I think

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Speaker 1: the result was released posthuous posthumously that said it wasn't

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Speaker 1: the ra A wasn't necessary, and she she kind of

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Speaker 1: came around a little bit. She never gave a full

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Speaker 1: throated endorsement, but she kind of stopped talking out against it.

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Speaker 1: I think at a certain point she used to debate

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Speaker 1: Alice Paul like publicly. They would, you know, have back

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Speaker 1: and forth debates over you know, whether the e r

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Speaker 1: A was needed and how helpful it was going to be. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you don't like I I know that um

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Speaker 1: Eleanor Roosevelt is frequently criticized as not uh out right

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Speaker 1: feminist enough in a lot of ways, but she also

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Speaker 1: clearly seems to have been a feminist in her own

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Speaker 1: way for sure. Yeah, and we should point out to that.

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Speaker 1: Emmanuel Seller in ninety two, in a very big upset,

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Speaker 1: lost uh to a woman, an attorney named Elizabeth Holtzman,

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Speaker 1: largely due to his opposition to the era A. So yeah. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So so finally, by the early seventies, you're getting more

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Speaker 1: and more women who are starting to show up in

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Speaker 1: in Congress, um, like Bella as Bug and Shirley Chisholm,

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Speaker 1: and they basically said, like, this is our priority. We're

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Speaker 1: going to get this. This equal Rights Amendment finally passed

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Speaker 1: through Congress. And I don't know if it just happened

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Speaker 1: to be like an era of kind of bipartisan sentiment

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Speaker 1: um or what the deal was, but everybody finally came

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Speaker 1: together and that thing got passed. Like if a piece

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Speaker 1: of legislation has ever gotten passed, it was this one

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Speaker 1: in a bipartisan manner. Yeah. And you know what, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we'll get to how that passed. But a really big

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Speaker 1: reason is because it started becoming a big deal in

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Speaker 1: the media with this second wave, like you mentioned of

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Speaker 1: the women's lib movement, and in no small part by

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Speaker 1: a woman named Betty for Dan who wrote a book

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Speaker 1: called The Feminine Mystique that in nine sold a million copies.

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Speaker 1: And it's if she probably gets a at least a

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Speaker 1: short following her own she was really interesting. Um. The

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Speaker 1: reason she wrote this book is because she did a

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Speaker 1: survey for a college reunion for her former classmates, learned

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Speaker 1: that many of her former female classmates were not super

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Speaker 1: happy about being homemakers and not being able to work,

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Speaker 1: and center down a research rabbit hole on This kind

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Speaker 1: of became her passion project because she wanted to write

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Speaker 1: a magazine article, like a really in depth win. No

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Speaker 1: one wanted it, so she ended up publishing it as

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Speaker 1: a book called The Feminine Mystique, which kind of rocked

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Speaker 1: the world of America in the early early to mid sixties. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because like in this book, she's basically saying, like this

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Speaker 1: whole this whole thing, we're all we're all going along

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Speaker 1: with this idea that the most the highest ideal a

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Speaker 1: woman can aspire to is to be the best wife

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Speaker 1: and mother she possibly can be, and that that's her identity.

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Speaker 1: It is as someone's wife, as someone's mother, that she

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Speaker 1: doesn't have her own identity that's independent of all of that.

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Speaker 1: That is a crushing a way to live for a

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Speaker 1: lot of women, not all women, as we'll see, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of women. And she spoke up for a

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Speaker 1: lot of them. Um, And I believe that this was

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Speaker 1: kind of it was already kind of out there in

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Speaker 1: pieces like people were talking about this, but Betty fre

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Speaker 1: Dan like put it all together and put it on

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Speaker 1: the map and got everyone talking. From what I've ever seen,

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Speaker 1: like almost single handedly started the second wave of feminism. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she put a pin in this little mini series.

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Speaker 1: She was played by Tracy Ullman UH in a mini

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Speaker 1: series last year called Mrs America that we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to a little more in depth than a second Yeah. So, um,

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Speaker 1: Betty fre Dan publishes the feminine mystique, like you said,

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Speaker 1: just totally rocked everybody's world for for better or worse

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Speaker 1: depending on your ideas about what the feminine mystique was about.

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Speaker 1: And saying, um, but yeah, like you're saying, like that

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Speaker 1: really laid the groundwork to this bipartisan um passing in

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Speaker 1: Congress of UH Equal Rights Amendment in nineteen seventy two,

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Speaker 1: I believe, right, Yeah, so it passes in a big way.

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Speaker 1: I think you said ninety three p Ninety three point

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Speaker 1: four in the House, ninety one point three in the Senate,

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Speaker 1: but which I can't wrap my head around that. How

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Speaker 1: did one third of a senator is that that senator

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Speaker 1: cross section of New Hampshire, Oklahoma and Michigan. Uh, here's

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Speaker 1: the deal, though. If you want something and shrined in

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Speaker 1: the constitution, that's a big deal in this country. They

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Speaker 1: don't do it willy nilly, nor should they um. But

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Speaker 1: you need not only like once it passes that it's

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Speaker 1: not automatic, then the state legislatures have to ratify it

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Speaker 1: by a two thirds margin, which means at least thirty

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Speaker 1: eight states have to ratify it. Um. And the e

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Speaker 1: r A had a stipulation that said, if that isn't

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Speaker 1: done in seven years, then you gotta go back to

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Speaker 1: the drawing board. And that was that was not in

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Speaker 1: the actual e r A. That was not in the

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Speaker 1: constitutional amendment. That was past and that's going to become

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Speaker 1: very important later. But it was in the legislation where

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Speaker 1: that e r A the amendment was sent to the

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Speaker 1: states for ratification, it said do this in seven years. Right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's that's just like that little slight distinction makes a

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Speaker 1: big difference down the road. Oh yeah, I mean the

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Speaker 1: r people pushing for the e r A certainly would

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Speaker 1: not have wanted an expiration date. No, And there's as

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Speaker 1: far as I could tell that they haven't ever attached

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Speaker 1: an expiration date to an amendment to be ratified before

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Speaker 1: it was just and it was also an arbitrary period

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Speaker 1: of time too, So just just chew on that, put

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Speaker 1: put that wadded up piece of gum in the back

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Speaker 1: of your cheek and save it for later. I wonder

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Speaker 1: in the debate if they were like, well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: how many years? Seven seven sounds good? Pour the Scotch. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So within one year, um, thirty of the thirty eight

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Speaker 1: states needed ratified it, which was super fast, and everyone

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, proponents like this is great, man,

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Speaker 1: it looks like this thing is gonna sail right into

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Speaker 1: the constitution. Uh. And then a woman popped up named

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Speaker 1: Phillis schlafe Lee and we're gonna take a break here

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about Phillis right after this. And I guess,

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Speaker 1: depending on where your views are, Chuck, we should have

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Speaker 1: introduced Phillis chef Lee with the the Darth Vader theme

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Speaker 1: song when she made first makes her appear, Dune Dune, Dune, Dune.

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Speaker 1: It's exactly right. Did you watch any of these interviews

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Speaker 1: and debates, Yes, dude, you could. It's really interesting. If

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Speaker 1: you have your wits about you, you could despise everything

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Speaker 1: that ever came out of Philish Lafeley's mouth. It's very

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Speaker 1: very easy to do. Um. She equates gay people, which

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Speaker 1: I guess in the fashion of the time she calls homosexuals.

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Speaker 1: She calls them perverts. Says that they should not have

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Speaker 1: any rights afforded to married men and women. They shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be able to adopt children. She says, really despicable. I

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Speaker 1: didn't hear that one. She says a lot of very

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Speaker 1: despicable stuff. Um, and her whole viewpoint is despicable to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. But there are very few people

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Speaker 1: walking around out there who have the poise and self

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Speaker 1: possession to go into the lions den and speak for

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Speaker 1: whatever she was convinced of was right. Um, that's you.

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Speaker 1: She has to be credited to at least that degree.

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Speaker 1: No matter what you think about her mind, she was

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Speaker 1: she had a lot of poise, I guess you could say.

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Speaker 1: And it's really kind of something to watch because I

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Speaker 1: saw this one. Did you see the the Good Morning

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Speaker 1: American debate from nine seventy between her and for Dan Yeah? Man,

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Speaker 1: And it's like it's really clear what a skilled debater

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Speaker 1: she was and how rattled she could get somebody. Yeah. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean she clearly. I felt bad for for Dan.

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Speaker 1: She was doing a good job, but she was she

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Speaker 1: was getting piste off and you could tell that she

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Speaker 1: just liked to get under people's skin while she just

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Speaker 1: remained perfectly, you know, erect in her seat with perfect posture.

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Speaker 1: And uh, that Mrs. America series, which it was on

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Speaker 1: our list and I'm gonna bump it back up to

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Speaker 1: next in line now to watch. But she was played,

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Speaker 1: um really really well judging from just the the accent

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Speaker 1: and the mannerisms by Cate Blanchett. It can do no wrong. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to see that series too, um, but yes,

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Speaker 1: she so. If you see those two debating, it's like

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Speaker 1: a st in contrast, where Philis chaff Lee she Laughlely

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Speaker 1: is um basically sitting there at tea time at the

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Speaker 1: country club before the polo match. And Betty fre Dan,

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Speaker 1: if you put like a beret in sunglasses on a

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Speaker 1: French cigarette in her mouth, she's like sitting at the

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Speaker 1: beating at cafe, like listening to a poetry jam or

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Speaker 1: something like this. Just these two totally contrasting personalities. Be

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Speaker 1: A Cheffly debated her under the table, and it's not

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Speaker 1: like Betty fre Dan was was an intellectual slouch by

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Speaker 1: any measure. But it's just Philish Laughly could rattle anybody. Anybody,

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Speaker 1: she could rattle Santa Claus. I'm just gonna say it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, she kind of made herself out to be

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Speaker 1: just this homemaker. Um. She would enter when she introduced

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Speaker 1: herself at engagement, she would thank her husband for letting

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Speaker 1: her come there. But when you kind of peek behind

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Speaker 1: the curtain, she had a master's in political science, she

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Speaker 1: had a law degree. She ran for Congress when she

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Speaker 1: was twenty seven years old and lost. And she was um,

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Speaker 1: sort of pre nineteen eighties, a big part in at

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Speaker 1: the very least, I don't even think they called it

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Speaker 1: the Christian Right at the time, that kind of organizing

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Speaker 1: what would later become the Christian Right movement. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can make a really good case that Philish laughy um

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Speaker 1: laid the groundwork for the current Republican Party in every

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Speaker 1: way from from Reagan onward to today. Um and and yeah,

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Speaker 1: she basically said like, I'm just a housewife from St. Louis,

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Speaker 1: proud housewife, wife and mother of six from St. Louis.

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Speaker 1: Um And in a lot of ways she was like

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Speaker 1: she made reference to law school during her debate to

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Speaker 1: Betty for Dan and she sounded like she was in

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Speaker 1: law school then, so it seems like she was just

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Speaker 1: a woman who said, I don't agree with this, and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to put a stop to it, and stood

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Speaker 1: in front of this unstoppable title wave and stopped it.

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Speaker 1: She stopped it. She stopped the E r A from

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Speaker 1: being ratified by the states right at the eleventh and

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Speaker 1: a half hour before it was ever passed and ratified

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Speaker 1: by the thirty eight states. You said they got thirty

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Speaker 1: states in the first year. By seven they were up

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Speaker 1: the thirty five states. They just needed three more, three

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Speaker 1: more states, and the whole thing was going to become

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Speaker 1: the law of the Lane. And Philish Slafely got in

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Speaker 1: the way of that almost single handedly at first. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you know she launched her her group was called

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Speaker 1: stop e r A, which you know, we obsess about acronyms.

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Speaker 1: It's sort of annoying when the first letter of an

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Speaker 1: acronym is the actual acronym. But stop ere A stood first,

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Speaker 1: stop taking our privileges. And her argument, you know, she

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Speaker 1: was like, and she used this to her advantage in

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Speaker 1: those debates, like see how angry these feminists are She's

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Speaker 1: she kind of coin that term. I think about the

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Speaker 1: angry women's Live movement. These angry feminists, they us want

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Speaker 1: they wanted to throw down everything that makes us a

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Speaker 1: female and everything that makes us women, and they want

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Speaker 1: to just set fire to it. And before you know what,

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Speaker 1: women are going to be able to be drafted in

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Speaker 1: the armed forces. Never happened. Uh, you know, they're they're

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Speaker 1: not going to be separate bathrooms or locker rooms anymore

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Speaker 1: from this point on. Not true. That started to happen

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Speaker 1: more in recent years, wrapped up same sex marriage. I

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Speaker 1: mean we'll we'll get to that. How she kind of

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Speaker 1: co opted gay rights and um, reproductive rights into all

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Speaker 1: this just to sort of coalesce that movement. Uh, and said,

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Speaker 1: you know, women are going to lose their right to

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Speaker 1: alimony and child support. Never happened. And just the life

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Speaker 1: as we know it, in the family as we know it.

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Speaker 1: And this is something fifty years on. All this stuff

403
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Speaker 1: is still so relevant, like the dissolution of what you know,

404
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Speaker 1: people think was the perfect family in nineteen fifty basically yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I mean so she was a troll, like a

406
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Speaker 1: a proto troll. But like the kind. You didn't do

407
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Speaker 1: it online, you did it in person. But her her

408
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Speaker 1: points were coherent and understandable to people who agreed with her,

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Speaker 1: and they were that like, yeah, like the man's role

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Speaker 1: is to provide for and take care of the woman,

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Speaker 1: and the woman provides like the domestic labor, and that's

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Speaker 1: just the division of labor between the sexes. And if

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Speaker 1: if we have the c r A, that's going to

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Speaker 1: go away, and then there's going to be all this

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Speaker 1: other horrible stuff of that's going to break down the

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Speaker 1: fabric of society and do we really want that? And

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Speaker 1: so by by taking the argument away from the idea

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Speaker 1: of whether women have a fundamental human right to equal

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Speaker 1: protection under the law as men, which is who disagrees

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Speaker 1: with that? Nobody disagrees with that, uh, and mixing it

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Speaker 1: up with all these other what ifs and potential social

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Speaker 1: outcomes and the ruin of the family, gay men teaching

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Speaker 1: your children at school, Um, that is what can alidated

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Speaker 1: people into a movement behind fellish laughly. And it was

425
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: it was really underhanded, but it worked really really well

426
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: and it still works today. Like she came up with

427
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: that from what I can tell. Yeah, in seventy three,

428
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: when Roevie Wade passed, she was again savvy enough to say, well,

429
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: here's something else I can I can seize on, and

430
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: I can wrap this up like there's a there's a whole.

431
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: There's a really large block of voters who are conservative

432
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: Christians who you know, we've never really intermingled politics like

433
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: that before. And so let's wrap this up in pro choice.

434
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: Let's wrap it up with gay rights, big culture war

435
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: issues of the time to kind of rally and like

436
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: I said, coalescence group together in order to defeat the

437
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 1: Equal Rights Amendment. And like you said it, you know

438
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: it worked in a big, big way. And uh, I

439
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: can't wait to watch that TV show. I can't either,

440
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: And I don't want to suck all the oxygen away

441
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: from Betty for Dan and the other feminists. But um,

442
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: I was saying that Phillish Laughley was a troll, a

443
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: proto troll. And if you read some of the stuff

444
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: that she said in public, sometimes she sounds like a

445
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: spokesperson for the Taliban. Like she said things like, um

446
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: that that sexual harassment on the job was not a

447
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: problem for virtuous women, like you know exactly, um or,

448
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: and that the Adam bomb was a marvelous gift that

449
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: was given to our country by a wise God. Just

450
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: things that would drive any any liberal or progressive, especially

451
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: a feminist, up the wall. And in fact, Betty for

452
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: Dan in this very famous debate from three years before

453
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: that Good Morning America appearance that you and I saw um,

454
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: she said, uh, you're you're, you're like you should be

455
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: burned at the stake for for betraying your your gender,

456
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: any favors and stuff like that, because that just allowed

457
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: Laughley to say, see there exactly, that's exactly right. But

458
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: she could just get under your skin like that. So

459
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: fast forward many many years too kind of now almost Uh.

460
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: In seventeen, after about forty years of not much movement, UH,

461
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: Nevada became the first New state to ratify the e

462
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: r A, thanks in no small part to State Senator

463
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: Pat Spearman, and she said, this bill is about a

464
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: quality period umen. Just a few years ago Illinois UM

465
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: came aboard as well. And now it's back up to

466
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: thirty seven. Did we mention that five of the states

467
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: d ratified or rescinded their ratification. I don't think we did.

468
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: We did not, and I think that's an important point here. Yeah, Nebraska, Tennessee, Idaho, Kentucky,

469
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: and South Dakota be very part of your legislatures. After

470
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, they um de ratified or de certified,

471
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: not de certified. They rescinded it. They did. They said,

472
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: this is based on there's actually precedence for that. Ohio

473
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: and New Jersey both rescinded their support for the Fourteenth

474
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,959
Speaker 1: Amendment once their legislatures changed control to um white supremacists.

475
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: Basically in the nineteenth century, they said, we take back

476
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: our our vote for the fourteenth Amendment. It also said

477
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: a president though that Congress ignored that and still counted

478
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: Ohio and New Jersey as having ratified the Fourteenth Amendment

479
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: because they did officially, right, So it goes back up

480
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: to thirty five. Then, uh, Illinois made at thirty seven

481
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: in January of last year. It's crazy that it took

482
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: this long. Virginia finally became the thirty eight state, and

483
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: so proponents of the e r A said, all right,

484
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: we got there, that's the thirty eight um. This thing

485
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: should have never had an expiration date to begin with.

486
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: That's dumb. Whoever said seven years? And then Porto Scotch. Uh,

487
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: they should be burned at the stake. And um, they said,

488
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: let's just get this thing done. And they said, you

489
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: know what, back in seventy seven amendment was passed but

490
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: not ratified it until two hundred years later, two hundred

491
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: and two years, so like there's precedent there, and that

492
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: was about prohibiting the law raising or lowering taxes for

493
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: congressional salaries from taking effect until their next term, like big,

494
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: big stuff. Not knocking it. It's it's important, I guess.

495
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: But they said, you know that was done, so this

496
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: thing shouldn't have had an expiration date to begin with.

497
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: Opponents say, well, no, there was an expiration date, so

498
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: we have to honor it. And uh, that's you know,

499
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: that's the deal. Sorry. And there was even a three

500
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,239
Speaker 1: year extension that brought it up too, and by the

501
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: time that extension was running out and it did not

502
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: look like anything was going to move or happen. There

503
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: no more states were going to move to ratify it.

504
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: Even the National Organization for Women and other feminist groups

505
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: basically through in the talent said it's done. We the

506
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: e r A lost this time. It's not gone forever,

507
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: but this amazing immense again tidal weight, this with just

508
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: the momentum of a freight train running through the country

509
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: is now dead just a few years after, which is

510
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: just nuts that that happened. It's just crazy. But that's

511
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: that's the fact that now thirty eight states have officially

512
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: voted in favor of ratifying. It set off a flurry

513
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: of lawsuits here in the United States, and when Virginia

514
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: became the last one in and basically everybody in anyone

515
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: suing the National Archives and Records Administration UM to either

516
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: certify and put it into the National Archives or the

517
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: National Record that UM that this is now a part

518
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: of the Constitution, or to not do that. And it's

519
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: totally up in the air of what that's going to be.

520
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: But apparently, UM, a lot of people, not everyone, because

521
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: there's plenty of people are like, it's official. Now take

522
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: all the b s away, and this is an official

523
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: law of the land. UM. There are plenty of people

524
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: who are proponents of the Equal Rights Amendment who say

525
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: we need to start over again. And one of those people,

526
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: UM was Ruth Bader Ginsburg who said it needs to

527
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: be voted on again. We need to pick up again.

528
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: Basically from square one. Yeah, and I think and we'll

529
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: talk about all this stuff. But I think there have

530
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: been so many laws enacted since then that do protect

531
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: so many of these rights. I think people like RBG

532
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: were like, you know what, let's start over, let's rewrite

533
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: it for the modern times, UM, making sure everything is

534
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: in there that we still need and yeah, and and

535
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: revote on it. And you know, I think that's reasonable,

536
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: So do that. So let's let's take a break, UM,

537
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: and then we'll talk come back and talk about those

538
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: questions like do we need the R and what would

539
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: happen if we did pass the R? How about that

540
00:31:43,040 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: sounds good? Alright, Chuck. So you made mention of like

541
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: a lot of laws that have been created since the

542
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: since UM the e R A was UM passed I

543
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: guess by Congress, uh, and even before then that protect

544
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: women as a as a form of what's called the

545
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: protective class in the United States. They're protective classes that

546
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: include UM races, religions, UM, sex, UH, the sexual orientation UH,

547
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,719
Speaker 1: and gender identity. Is becoming a protected class. And if

548
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: you're a member of a protected class, it means that

549
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: if there's a law that excludes you from something, whether

550
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: intentionally or not, that law is considered discriminatory and you

551
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: can file a lawsuit against it, and then the courts

552
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: have to apply different um tests to it to see

553
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: just how discriminatory it is or if it's discriminatory at all,

554
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: and whether or not it should be struck down or

555
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: overruled um. And the reason that sex is a protected

556
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: class even without the Equal Rights Amendment is thanks very

557
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: much largely to Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who was an absolute

558
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: legal pioneer in figuring out how to get women the

559
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: protections under the law um that they were looking for

560
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: with the equal Equal Rights Amendment without the Equal Rights

561
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: Amendment being part of the constitution. Yeah, I mean, I

562
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: think people that say that we don't need the e

563
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: r A. And it's a very fine line between saying

564
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm against the r A and saying I don't think

565
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: we need the e r A. It's it all falls

566
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: under the same banner ultimately. But people that say we

567
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 1: don't need the r A, say, you know, we got

568
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four, and race, color, religion, sex,

569
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: or national origin. You can't hire and fire peer higher

570
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: and fire people based on that. That applies to pay

571
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: and benefits to there's also the Equal Pay Act of

572
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three that say there should be equal pay

573
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: for equal work. That's didn't you know, in practice hasn't

574
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: worked out that way because there's still a wage gap.

575
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 1: We did a good episode on that. Yeah, that was

576
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: a good one. Violence Against Women Act of nineteen UH

577
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: saying here Federal resources for Domestic and Sexual violence. Um,

578
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: and you like prevention and prosecution of that counseling and UH,

579
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: this one however, and you know, put a pin in

580
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: this one, because this is one that is used also

581
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: for people that say we do need the A R

582
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: A because that one expired and is still hung up

583
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 1: and has not gotten congressional reauthorization since twenty nineteen because

584
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: of politics. The Violence Against Women Act. Yeah, and then

585
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: Title nine is the last one in nineteen seventy two. Uh.

586
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: Title nine is the one you hear about mostly in

587
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: college athletics that says, I mean, it says a lot

588
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: of things, but in terms of college athletics, that had

589
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: the biggest impact, saying you gotta have the same amount

590
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: of women's sports as men's sports. Uh, in the same

591
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: like accommodations and UH, scholarships and all that stuff. And

592
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: then so like, we don't need the e r A

593
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: because we have all these things. So yeah, so you

594
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: have law, and then you also have case law too.

595
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: That UM basically hinges on the fourteenth Amendment, which says

596
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 1: that a citizen of the United States can't be discriminated

597
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: against or or is do equal protection under the law

598
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: UM by the States and by the US. And that

599
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: was written in the in in um past, in the

600
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 1: Fourteenth Amendment in the wake of slavery. It was meant

601
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: to UM basically make free recently freed African Americans full

602
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: citizens in the United States. But it doesn't specify on

603
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: the basis of race or on the basis of religion.

604
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: It just says, if you're a U. S citizen, you

605
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: get equal protection under the law. And so Ruth Bader Ginsburg,

606
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: one of the reasons she's such a legal pioneer here

607
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: in this respect is because she's the one who figured

608
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: out how to argue that the Fourteenth Amendment applies to

609
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: sex as well. And the whole thing about legal stuff

610
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: and this is all new to me. But but it's

611
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: really kind of interesting is that depending on how enshrined

612
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: classes a protected group is in law. Um, the more

613
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: protected it is, the stricter the scrutiny that judges are

614
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 1: going to apply to determining whether a law is discriminatory

615
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: or not. And the most the most scrutiny you can

616
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: apply to something, it's called strict scrutiny, and that's typically

617
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: reserved for things that are protected by the Constitution. And

618
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: that means that if you have a law that even

619
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: remotely steps on the rights of one of those protected classes,

620
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: it's probably an illegal, discriminatory law. Yeah, how does that

621
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: work with how does that work in practice? Does that

622
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: mean they just spend more time or like what what

623
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: does that even mean? So? I think what it means

624
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: is that you if you pass a law, and let's

625
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: say that I pass a law and it accidentally discriminates

626
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: against your ability to get your hands on oatmeal. I

627
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: can get all the oatmeal I want, but you can't.

628
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: Let's say, in the Constitution, Chuck is specifically protected under

629
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: the law. That means that this law that prevents you

630
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 1: from getting oatmeal, that's a discriminatory law. And so it's

631
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: going to be really easy for you to bring a

632
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: lawsuit and for a judge to say, like there's even

633
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: a little bit of discrimination here. This law is illegal

634
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: because it's discriminated against Chuck and he's it says in

635
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: the Constitution you can't discriminate against Chuck. It just means

636
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: that that the standards for that law um to stand. Uh,

637
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: like everyone else on the planet basically has to benefit

638
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: from you not getting oatmeal for some reason, and that

639
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: that that's just not how laws work. So it would

640
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: be really easy for you to to bring a lawsuit

641
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: and get that law overturned because it discriminates it because

642
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: you're a protected class. Now, if it's just like everybody

643
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: likes Chuck, but it doesn't say in the Constitution that

644
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: you can't be discriminated against, they're going to use a

645
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: slightly less strict test to determine whether the thing is

646
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 1: is a discriminatory law or not. And so maybe yeah,

647
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: it generally um promotes oatmeal use among other people, among

648
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: all people, but there's some other people who don't get

649
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: it too. That doesn't really matter because you know, it's

650
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: not enshrined to the Constitution. So it's almost like degrees

651
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: and once you're in the Constitution as you as a

652
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: protected class, like it is really difficult to discriminate against you.

653
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: And that's one reason why people say, no, we need this,

654
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: we need this in the constitution because women, uh and

655
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: sex and gender even should be a protected class. You

656
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: should not be able to discriminate against somebody based on that. Yeah,

657
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: I mean that's the main um. That is the main

658
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: argument for proponents of the r A is saying, no,

659
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: let's make this of the real deal. Um there. You know,

660
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 1: cases can be overturned, laws can be reversed, Executive actions

661
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: can have devastating impacts, um. And and only being enshrined

662
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: in the Constitution will make this like like you said,

663
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: just so locked down and protected that people can't mess

664
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 1: with it anymore. I think we've seen in recent years

665
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: that you know, precedent can be argued and laws can

666
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: be overturned, and it's like, sure, we have all these

667
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: laws that passed since the r A first came uh

668
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: was ratified you know, in the nineteen seventies. But it

669
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: doesn't take much, you know, especially when you look at

670
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: a very imbalanced Supreme Court when Pete for people to

671
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: kind of worry that these these things can be taken away. Yeah.

672
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: And I mean, like there was a famous quote from

673
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: antonin Scalia when he was alive and Ajustice on the

674
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 1: Supreme Court basically saying like, no, the Constitution most decidedly

675
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: does not protect against discrimination on the basis of sex.

676
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: And you know, when when you hear Supreme Court justice

677
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: saying that, it's like, well, you know, how many cases

678
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: is it gonna take before he rules like, no, you

679
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: can totally discriminate against somebody on the basis of sex

680
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: if it's in the constitution. It doesn't matter what Anton

681
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: and its school or any other justice thinks. It's in

682
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: the constitution, So that that level of protection, like you

683
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: were saying, would be, it's just a totally different level

684
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: of protection than you know, customarily we we don't discriminate.

685
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: It's no, you can't discriminate. That's the difference between those

686
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: two things. Yeah, and not just reversing laws, but passing

687
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: new laws that maybe violate violate that equal treatment under

688
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: the law. Uh. And you know some other things that

689
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: that that constitutionally um could come into play if if

690
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 1: it were to go through is something like the Pink

691
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: tax I. Don't think we've ever done a show on

692
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: the Pink tax I. Don't think so either. But this

693
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: is you know, this is the notion that like you know,

694
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: from everything that like similar products for men and women, uh,

695
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: they charge women more than they do for men for

696
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: these products. UM to stuff like you know, menstrual equality

697
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: or equity. Basically you know, tampons, uh, pads other menstruation

698
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: products should not be taxed anymore. They should be like

699
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: treated like any other essential item. Yeah. And then so

700
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: so there are a lot of things, a lot of

701
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: protections that it would afford. One thing that frequently is

702
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: UM cited as as UM protecting women against is like violence,

703
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: like say, domestic violence. From what I read, it probably

704
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: wouldn't UM because it protects against being discriminated against by

705
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: the law. It doesn't necessarily afford protection from like an

706
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: individual person or something like that, necessarily a company, although

707
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: being in trined in the constitution, you could really sue

708
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: a company's pants off for discriminating against you. UM. But

709
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: there are there are some things that would do, some

710
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: things that wouldn't do, and then there's some things up

711
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: in the air. And one of the reasons why this

712
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: is still such a cultural UM flashpoint still today in

713
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: is because now more than ever UM it has become

714
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: equated with taxpayer funded abortion. And the reasoning behind people

715
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: who oppose the e r A because they think it's

716
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: basically tantamount too just completely repealing any restrictions on abortion.

717
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: Abortion from that point on is only women can get abortions,

718
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: and so if there's a law against abortion, there's a

719
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: law that's discriminating against women. Therefore you can't have laws

720
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: regulating abortions. And so that's why, especially with the Christian right,

721
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: it's still such a flash point today, and that's why

722
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: starting from scratch again is going to be no easier

723
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 1: than it was back in nineteen two. Yeah, now you're

724
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: probably right. Uh, it's pretty frustrating though to get to

725
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: that thirty eight state threshold, and because of some dumb,

726
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: arbitrary expiration date placed on it, it's still being held

727
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: up in the year yeah, in the year one. And

728
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: then also, the United States has an obligation is like

729
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: basically the leader of the free world to join the

730
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: rest of the Western nations in in enshrining equal protection

731
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: and the law for bisex um. I guess the United

732
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: States is one of only twenty eight countries in the

733
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: world that doesn't guarantee gender equality, one of chuck and

734
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: a hundred percent of the countries that have written their

735
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: constitution since nineteen fifty have included some guarantee of gender

736
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: equality in those constitutions. So it's kind of sad that

737
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: we don't have that still to this day. Yeah, and

738
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: if you look around the country this, you know, Dave

739
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 1: Ruse helped us out with this article, and he points

740
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 1: out stuff like, you know, if you go to Nepal,

741
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: their Supreme Court struck Donalogu exempting marital rape from criminal

742
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: prosecution because of its e er a clause. UH. In Tanzania, UH,

743
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 1: the Court of Appeal struck down a law that allowed

744
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old girls to be married without parental consent,

745
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: while boys only had to be at eighteen. So, you know,

746
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 1: when you look at countries around the world that are

747
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 1: are seemingly ahead of the USA and in terms of

748
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: equal protection, is just it's it's baffling and disappointing. Baffling,

749
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: is right. Yeah, do you got anything else? I got

750
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: nothing else. It's good stuff. I have one more thing.

751
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: If you're give me another second, you're ready. So when

752
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,240
Speaker 1: I was researching this, my head was just spinning again

753
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: and again and again. Um and It reminded me of

754
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: something that I read recently, and that is as really

755
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: easy to get bounced around from one outrage to another,

756
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: to one thing, to care about this issue, and then

757
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: oh wait what about this issue? And I saw some

758
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: advice somewhere I don't remember where, but it was, if

759
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: you want to affect change, pick one issue and dedicate

760
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: yourself to it. And that doesn't mean that you don't

761
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: care about all the other issues that you do care about.

762
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 1: It's just this one issue is your specialty. You're an

763
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: expert in it, and you're probably going to get further

764
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: going like that. You're probably going to be able to

765
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: see more change doing that than you would just kind

766
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: of bouncing from issue to issue to issue. So I mean,

767
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 1: if this like really got to you and you really

768
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: want to do something about it, make the make getting

769
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: the e R A past your specialty, you know totally. Okay, Well,

770
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 1: thanks for letting me stand on the soapbox for a second.

771
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: And since I'm getting off of my soapbox and Chuck

772
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: is putting it up in the soapbox caddy that we

773
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 1: keep here in the studio, UM, that means it's time

774
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: for listener mail. I'm gonna call this a ninja in

775
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: the Connecticut for us. Nice? Did you read this one? No?

776
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: I haven't. This is kind of crazy. It's long, but

777
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: it's worth it. Hey, guys. When I was about seven,

778
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: my mom married the man I called dad, and we

779
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: promptly moved from Texas to Connecticut, where we used to

780
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: go camping a lot. On one trip or I'll out

781
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 1: in the woods midnight, rolls around and go to bed.

782
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: About an hour later, I heard my tent on zipping

783
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: and my dad started shaking my foot, saying, come out here,

784
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 1: there's an effing ninja. So I throw on some slippers

785
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: in my jacket, but grudgingly trudge out to see a kid,

786
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 1: you not a ninja sitting next to the fire pit.

787
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 1: I remember actually shaking my head in disbelief to reaffirm

788
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: this wasn't some very strange dream. And now when I

789
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 1: say there was a ninja, I mean full black garb

790
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: with a slit to see through. This dude had twin

791
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: swords on his back, throwing stars, tiger claws for climbing,

792
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: grapple hooks, all the tools. Apparently, my dad saw him

793
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: rolling out of a bush and I had to see

794
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: what was going on. The story behind this guy was

795
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: he was a national a National guardsman and also ran

796
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: a jew kindo and ninajut So do jo and Rhode

797
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: Island as his main gig. We sit for the next

798
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: couple of hours and this guy is just showing a

799
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: stuff like how fast you can climb a tree or

800
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: how to throw a star. The night progresses and he

801
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,080
Speaker 1: asked if we were familiar with Bruce Lee, as an

802
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: average fan of Enter the Dragon from around eight. I

803
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: said yes, and he asked if I'd ever seen his

804
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: one inch punch. Excitedly, I said sure, I have. And

805
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: then his name is Brian Ninsha, he said Brian then

806
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: asked if he could demonstrate it on me, a pudgy

807
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: twelve year old. I said no, thanks, I'm good and

808
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 1: I explicitly did not want to fly backwards with any

809
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: force uh. And he said no, no, I'll do it

810
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: with an open palm so it doesn't hurt. I give in.

811
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: He positions me safely away from the fire pit with

812
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: my back facing the tent, about seven ft away from anything. Uh.

813
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: Never trust anyone by the way whose instruction is okay,

814
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: Now just stand there while I hit you. Uh. He

815
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: inhales deeply does the flath hand against my stern um,

816
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: just like can kill Bill. Then in an instant, I

817
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: saw his muscles tense up as he audibly exhaled sharply

818
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: and hit my chest open handed. I go airborne and

819
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: hit my tailbone next on a tent steak seven ft

820
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: behind me, and can't really walk without crutches for a

821
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. Kids at school never believe me when

822
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: prodding about why I was on crutches, because who would

823
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: believe a kid that says I had to run in

824
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: with a ninja in the middle of the woods. Uh.

825
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: That is from Drew Carroll and shaying Cheyenne Wyoming, Shyenne, Wyoming.

826
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: That is a great, great story. That was a magnificent

827
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 1: listener mail. I mean, hats off for that one. Thank you.

828
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 1: And if you're Brian and you're out there, I want

829
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: to hear what happened to you. Yeah, Uh, he's probably

830
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: He's like, I've been doing a ten year bid for

831
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: beating a kid up in the woods, but the kids

832
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: said I could hit him. Oh boy. Well, if you

833
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with this like Drew and

834
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: try to top Drew zie a listener mail. Drew, by

835
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: the way, is the current listener male Champion. UM, we

836
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: want to see if you can do it. You can

837
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: send us an email, wrap it up spanking on the bottom,

838
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 1: and send it off to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio

839
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of

840
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,

841
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

842
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H