Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Lisa Traeger. Hello, hello Lisa. My name
Speaker 1: is Kara Klank. And you know what we do here
Speaker 1: on this podcast. We talk SVU, we talk real crimes,
Speaker 1: we talk to a you know, amazing actor or person
Speaker 1: involved in SVU episode, and today we've got a good
Speaker 1: one for you as usual.
Speaker 3: But before all that, we just chat what is going on.
Speaker 3: We banter.
Speaker 2: I mean, we're like we're in the ultimate time machine,
Speaker 2: I would say that. So hopefully we'll get on a
Speaker 2: rhythm soon, but maybe not because I'm going to go
Speaker 2: to Finland for weeks, so we'll just always be an
Speaker 2: intergalactic space floating and some you know, what is time
Speaker 2: and anything?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's spring break.
Speaker 1: It was spring break last week, so we're taping this
Speaker 1: a little bit in advance so that we can spring
Speaker 1: break a little bit.
Speaker 3: And did you ever go on like a really wild
Speaker 3: spring break.
Speaker 2: Lisa, I did not that was not part of my
Speaker 2: existence as a human.
Speaker 3: Did you go to Daytona?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: No, I went to Cancun when I was a senior.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've talked about it all. And
Speaker 1: then the mom got food poisoning. Was the chaperone, Yeah,
Speaker 1: our chaperone, mom had to come with us. I mean
Speaker 1: it was like gross, Like I can't believe I even went,
Speaker 1: Like I can't believe it because it seemed so fun,
Speaker 1: but like we just got like drunk and like made
Speaker 1: out with random people.
Speaker 4: It was just like a wild time.
Speaker 1: But it is what everyone else is doing, So I
Speaker 1: think I'd rather go on a more I don't know,
Speaker 1: off the beaten path spring break one day.
Speaker 2: MTV still do spring break shows, Like do they still
Speaker 2: go and gyrate on a stage next to the ocean?
Speaker 2: You know what?
Speaker 3: They like didn't when I was there.
Speaker 1: But I also think that MTV can like license its
Speaker 1: name out to stuff, So it's possible that there is
Speaker 1: like an MTV spring Break festival type thing that's just
Speaker 1: not televised, you know.
Speaker 4: What I mean.
Speaker 1: Like, but there definitely are not doing the grind and
Speaker 1: like the fucking kids going nuts at Daytona probably right,
Speaker 1: or somewhere in Florida.
Speaker 3: Like they're not city.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think that that's going down
Speaker 1: on MTV anymore.
Speaker 3: But it's on MTVu. Okay. I can't believe MTVu still exists.
Speaker 1: I used to apply for jobs there when I was
Speaker 1: is it It was originally MTV like university like for
Speaker 1: college age, like they were trying to make sort of
Speaker 1: college programming, And then I did not even know it
Speaker 1: still existed, to be honest.
Speaker 3: So I think that it's just targeted at the college set.
Speaker 3: But damn, yeah I am. Yeah, I don't. It just
Speaker 3: wasn't a thing for me.
Speaker 1: I wonder, this is funny that MTV just totally came
Speaker 1: up organically in this conversation, because we do talk about
Speaker 1: it a lot more later in the episode.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I like did not even do that on
Speaker 3: purpose at all.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to know if you had ever gone
Speaker 1: to like, yeah, Daytona and don't a wet T shirt contests.
Speaker 1: But I guess I understand that that was probably not
Speaker 1: gonna happen with your parents.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't even go in school. It's just like
Speaker 2: wasn't a part of my life. But I would. I
Speaker 2: I'm also more of a rent a house and let's
Speaker 2: not leave type of yas like when I watch the
Speaker 2: Real Housewives and they have like a house with a
Speaker 2: pool on the beach with a staff, Like that to
Speaker 2: me is the perfect vacation. I do not need to
Speaker 2: go anywhere. I mean, I guess I'll go to a
Speaker 2: jungle if you take me on a jeep. But I
Speaker 2: like a lounge, like I don't the idea of Miami,
Speaker 2: and like club hopping and going from place to place
Speaker 2: is not like a fun experience in my head.
Speaker 1: No, no, I think when I was seventeen, I could
Speaker 1: handle it, but like now I absolutely like will not
Speaker 1: do that stuff.
Speaker 3: And what you're describing is perfect.
Speaker 1: Like my bachelorette party was forty eight hours in a
Speaker 1: house in Pump Springs. No one left, Like we did
Speaker 1: not go anywhere. One person went to do yoga. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you off camera who it was. I know, but
Speaker 1: but like you know what I mean, Like I don't
Speaker 1: want to go anywhere. I want the company to be
Speaker 1: good and I want everything at the house and that's it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I remember like in my late teens early twenties,
Speaker 1: I would go nightclubbing and hate every second of it
Speaker 1: and think something was wrong with me, and then you
Speaker 1: realize like, oh, we could all just like different things.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I kept forcing clubbing into my life,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know why I wore heels, spent eighty
Speaker 1: dollars on patron shots every night.
Speaker 3: Just like waited in line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't know why I thought that that's
Speaker 2: what I needed to do to have fun. And I
Speaker 2: would always sneak to the bathroom and just stand there
Speaker 2: and like like and I didn't even have cell phones.
Speaker 2: I don't think that point. Now I did, but it
Speaker 2: wasn't as you know, it's it didn't entertain us as long.
Speaker 2: But I was just miserable at these places. And now
Speaker 2: I realized, like, oh I don't have to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I can just go dance at a chiller place. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, I'm just getting like a flashback. Do you
Speaker 2: remember November? Like most mustache November, like men grow a mustache.
Speaker 2: So I was at a nightclub competition and my friend
Speaker 2: and I put on milk mustaches and ordered white Russians
Speaker 2: and we were like competing like all these women. We
Speaker 2: all had mustaches for testicular cancer.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just had like a wild memory flood in my
Speaker 2: life really popped back in.
Speaker 3: Wow, neither. I don't even know if it's a good
Speaker 3: or bad story.
Speaker 2: It's just like truly neutral, Like it's just a neutral
Speaker 2: memory that.
Speaker 4: Came to my mind.
Speaker 1: We're doing what you could for testicular cancer, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate that.
Speaker 3: What else is going on? What else happening?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I liked the after party.
Speaker 2: I liked getting McDonald's as the sun came up in
Speaker 2: a car, Like that's what That's what my clubbing meant
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 3: But it's interesting watching my niece.
Speaker 2: She was like when I saw her last week, like
Speaker 2: wanting to go to this diner that I used to
Speaker 2: go to after homecomings and stuff. And it's so interesting
Speaker 2: that it's the same activities passed down.
Speaker 1: From getting food on my own late at night was
Speaker 1: the height of coolness, Like just so fun diners, so fun.
Speaker 1: Baker Square was big for us. Oh yeah, it was
Speaker 1: that never a part. I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1: You've never heard of Baker Square never in my life?
Speaker 4: What is that?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: They had like a whole big stack of pies, like
Speaker 2: a table menu of pies. So each day they have
Speaker 2: thirty different pies. But I would get this like Chinese
Speaker 2: chicken salad. Like you know, they'll throw some crunchy sesame
Speaker 2: things and call it an Asian salad.
Speaker 4: I would love.
Speaker 2: I would love it there and we would all get pies,
Speaker 2: and there was a Rece's pie and a French still all.
Speaker 2: You know, I can name pies all day, but it
Speaker 2: was it was just the place open late that had
Speaker 2: diner food. And like, I'll say pies again, Yeah that's it.
Speaker 3: What is your number one pie? Again? I would always
Speaker 3: switch it up.
Speaker 2: But I love a lemon, a coconut, a banana cream
Speaker 2: like I like a creamy, fruity pie.
Speaker 3: I would say, I think this might be our second combo.
Speaker 1: Probably during one of our pre Thanksgiving shows, we've talked
Speaker 1: about pies, but I just wanted to get a quick refresher.
Speaker 2: But if someone has a blueberry pie with a delicious crust,
Speaker 2: like I love a crust. I love pie crust, I
Speaker 2: would just can they just sell pie crust crispies in
Speaker 2: a bat. I would eat that all day like pie creutons.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, hello sharks. My name is a
Speaker 1: trigger and here's my idea for pie Creuton.
Speaker 2: Well, I love ice cream with chunks of pie in
Speaker 2: it like that, like uh with pie crests. And I
Speaker 2: don't know how often that happens, but it is like,
Speaker 2: sorry to go about pies. What diner did you have?
Speaker 1: Just like a local one that was called bulls Head
Speaker 1: in Stanford, Connecticut that we would go to all the
Speaker 1: time and I loved it. I think it's still there.
Speaker 1: I've took I've taken Jared there. I was like, hey,
Speaker 1: come to this diner I went to in my high
Speaker 1: school days. But yeah, and then there was one called
Speaker 1: post Road Diner. Like just they were all local, like
Speaker 1: not chains or anything. They were just like local to
Speaker 1: our area. Dunk a donus prank calls.
Speaker 2: But life doesn't change, like I still you know, we
Speaker 2: still just do that. Yeah, yeah, we still just go
Speaker 2: eat somewhere, just at a different hour. I mean I
Speaker 2: did go drinking last night with the boys and it
Speaker 2: was fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, once you go to this bar with a regular,
Speaker 2: you know, Zach is such a regular and the last night, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I didn't have to start at tab.
Speaker 3: She was like, oh honey, I got you.
Speaker 2: Don't worry bringing drinks to the table and it's like
Speaker 2: all fake and it's obviously because I was with another
Speaker 2: person and I try to tip well to get a
Speaker 2: favorable treatment.
Speaker 4: But it feels good.
Speaker 1: Nonetheless, it feels it's funny that our friend who is
Speaker 1: the regular there, just like put in the legwork, and
Speaker 1: now everone else is reaping the benefits, you know, like
Speaker 1: he's not. It's only he's a famous person where they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're friends with him. It's like he just came into
Speaker 1: that bar a lot and made his name for himself,
Speaker 1: and now they're like, oh, you're with him, like you know,
Speaker 1: it's got Moe's vibe, right.
Speaker 3: Oh that's cute. I'm trying to do a Simpsons reference.
Speaker 3: That's so sweet.
Speaker 4: It does.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not as depressing Moe as truly suicidal
Speaker 2: at every moment. But no, where everyone knows your name,
Speaker 2: I don't know if they know my name. I don't
Speaker 2: need them to. I just want I want.
Speaker 1: You to know my dress show where everybody knows I
Speaker 1: like vodka soda, that's your Cheers theme song.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I switch it up, you know, I switch
Speaker 2: it up. Oh you like why?
Speaker 4: And yeah?
Speaker 2: It was because you know, I met, I went to
Speaker 2: Botega Louis.
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 4: Oh? How was it?
Speaker 3: It's beautiful in there? Is it beautiful?
Speaker 1: I mean I literally waited for this restaurant to open
Speaker 1: for four years. I kept saying, I can't wait to
Speaker 1: go there, and then I moved out of the neighborhood
Speaker 1: before it ever opened.
Speaker 2: And you would love it because it's pasta's simple pastas.
Speaker 2: But they just have beautiful cake displays, frosted gorgeous like
Speaker 2: they and macaroons, like very beautiful dessert counters.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting in West Hollywood, where like everybody's so
Speaker 1: body conscious in West Hollywood that they would be like desserts.
Speaker 2: Know who I had to Yeah, but that's what they're
Speaker 2: bringing to the dinners. They're not eating it. This is
Speaker 2: like gifts, like you would bring a cake to a party.
Speaker 2: But the person I had dinner with does not eat carbs,
Speaker 2: does not eat carbs at all. And I said, well,
Speaker 2: maybe on your birthday and he said absolutely not. The
Speaker 2: only time I'll eat and eat a carb is if
Speaker 2: I'm wasted in New York at two am and I
Speaker 2: walk and I find pizza and that is it. Wow,
Speaker 2: he does not And he said it's tough to be
Speaker 2: a gay man.
Speaker 4: But I was like, you are speaking to a.
Speaker 2: Woman, but okay, yeah, but yeah, he just doesn't eats
Speaker 2: Victoria Beckham. He just doesn't do it. He's a Kelly
Speaker 2: Rippa and his spirit. There's no cheat, no cheat moments.
Speaker 3: But I get it.
Speaker 2: Kelly Ripper said, you know, once you take one and
Speaker 2: it's the next and she likes to stay ready. And
Speaker 2: I get that because once you're a little taste, it's
Speaker 2: it's hard to stop.
Speaker 3: Your dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel.
Speaker 2: That, but I would be sad like Victoria Beckham, instead
Speaker 2: of cake for a birthday, does a watermelon cake and
Speaker 2: it's just a piece of watermelon shaped like a cake.
Speaker 2: And I was telling my dinner date that and he
Speaker 2: was like, ooh, I love that. And I'm like, you
Speaker 2: would you fucking sick of you? Want to you just
Speaker 2: a piece of water?
Speaker 3: Get how?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 4: That's is that? What?
Speaker 1: Are you gonna have enjoyed everything when you are done
Speaker 1: with life? Like saying I never had birthday cake on
Speaker 1: my birthday. Yeah, some people just enjoy other things.
Speaker 4: I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, because what I also learned was Sarrak vodka is
Speaker 2: made out of grapes.
Speaker 4: I didn't know that. Oh is that better for you
Speaker 4: or worse for you?
Speaker 3: Or what?
Speaker 1: What's the point of that you want vodka?
Speaker 3: I just another neutral comment. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had a bottle of Sarroc in my apartment
Speaker 1: in New York for such a long time that I
Speaker 1: don't know where it came from.
Speaker 3: But we used to always be.
Speaker 1: Like Sorac didny shit, we would I always talk about
Speaker 1: this bottle of sarak and then I don't even know
Speaker 1: if we ever drank it.
Speaker 3: Wait, it was definitely a flavor.
Speaker 2: If it's April nineteenth, I do have to give a
Speaker 2: shout out.
Speaker 4: It is my.
Speaker 1: Sister's birthday and Aries true and true, Happy birthday to
Speaker 1: another Aries queen with my rosie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's exciting. She's on the nineteenth.
Speaker 2: Her birthday is always around Passover and she was never
Speaker 2: allowed to have delicious cakes.
Speaker 3: Does she ever listen to this podcast?
Speaker 4: I doubt it.
Speaker 3: I mean, she has so much.
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine her having time to listen to
Speaker 2: hours of me talk when we barely even talk on
Speaker 2: the phone. Like it would just be shocking. It would
Speaker 2: be shocking to find out. But you know, I bet
Speaker 2: there's some secret surprises around the corner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my sister loves us for you too. I just
Speaker 1: I don't think she's much of a podcast gal. But
Speaker 1: maybe one day our sisters will love us. What do
Speaker 1: you think they do other things? When is your sister
Speaker 1: visiting in the time right now, in the time machine.
Speaker 1: It's right now, she's sitting here with me as we speak. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to meet her. I have to come back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm excited to meet claint girl another mink.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I've only met Colin and you know how
Speaker 2: we kind of fight about.
Speaker 4: You know, the duck.
Speaker 1: That marks the fourth or fifth time you've brought up
Speaker 1: the doc on this cat.
Speaker 2: So I can't wait to see what your sister orders
Speaker 2: and judge her fiercely.
Speaker 3: Oh no, she'll be good. She won't disappoint you.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 3: Wait, did I tell you.
Speaker 2: That I got a gift package like a PR package
Speaker 2: and a polaroid camera with film. No, a polaroid camera
Speaker 2: for that HBO show. Yes, the Minx. Thank you to
Speaker 2: the minks PR department for finding me on Instagram and
Speaker 2: sending me multiple vibrators and a polaroid camera.
Speaker 3: Wow, those are pricey those boxes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's an attachment to it and a rose
Speaker 2: Quartz dildo. I mean, it's kind of like to say
Speaker 2: it was a good and it came into picnic basket.
Speaker 2: So maybe we'll do an old style picnic a day
Speaker 2: or something at the park.
Speaker 1: And yeah, just remove all the dildos, put in food
Speaker 1: and baguettes and stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that'll be fun.
Speaker 3: We can eat some peanut butter out and about.
Speaker 1: All right, do you have other little tidbits before we
Speaker 1: move on to this great episode?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, our friend Danny Palumbo on Instagram posted that
Speaker 2: he got to try the Van Luin Kraft Macaroni and
Speaker 2: Cheese ice cream, So I am pretty envious of that.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what that tastes like, but I would
Speaker 3: like to try.
Speaker 1: That point, the food scientists are really flexing their muscles.
Speaker 1: I had parmesan ice cream in Italy one time, and
Speaker 1: it was good, but it was like on the side
Speaker 1: of like a meal. It was like at a fancier restaurant,
Speaker 1: you know, so it kind of complimented. I wouldn't like
Speaker 1: go into an ice cream parlor and be like twoscoops
Speaker 1: of parmesan please, you know. But it was it was interesting,
Speaker 1: it was cool. So wow, I'll go try that. That
Speaker 1: sounds neat. What did he say, day? What did he say?
Speaker 1: He liked it?
Speaker 3: He said it was interesting and he liked it. Got it.
Speaker 3: That's all I got from him.
Speaker 2: That's one of those situations where I write constantly and
Speaker 2: I get very few responses. If it's like my seek
Speaker 2: treatment messages, I'm constantly writing to him and he's just like, Okay,
Speaker 2: it was fine.
Speaker 3: The food was good. What do you want from me?
Speaker 1: And I'm just like ooh poor, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just am always writing to him.
Speaker 2: I have no shame on Instagram. It's really wild. People
Speaker 2: will just truly just heart stuff for months and I
Speaker 2: just keep on bothering them. But I want to be heard.
Speaker 2: I want to be heard.
Speaker 3: I like it.
Speaker 1: You're getting your thoughts out. I wasn't heard as a child,
Speaker 1: and I want to be heard. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: have no idea. Well, we have an awesome episode coming
Speaker 1: up and a really really fun guest, so stay tuned.
Speaker 2: All right, everyone, We're doing Decline and Fall at season eighteen,
Speaker 2: episode nine, Excited, and we're opening up on a hardcore
Speaker 2: fond and cake Okay, people are singing you know, the song,
Speaker 2: the birthday song, and it says happy birthday, Lawrence, from
Speaker 2: all of us, and wildly the cake is Ukrainian colors,
Speaker 2: so they were a se always ahead of its time,
Speaker 2: always prescient. And then there's you know, they pull away
Speaker 2: and there's two hot model types, one brunette, one blonde,
Speaker 2: and they're both again wearing Ukrainian flag colors in bodycon dresses.
Speaker 3: So yeah, my brain's in one thing.
Speaker 2: And now there's an old man in a tie and
Speaker 2: we get that that's probably Lawrence.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: He gets in between the girls and he says, what
Speaker 2: a treat, and the cake too, so we get a
Speaker 2: little grimy grandpa vibe. Everyone at the party is in
Speaker 2: office attire or business outfits. No one's like dressed sect like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a little bit of a work party, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And he starts a speech about feeling young and loving
Speaker 2: his employees and one day the company is going to
Speaker 2: go to his lovely daughter's Cynthia.
Speaker 3: And then we meet a young man with.
Speaker 2: No tie, top button unbuttoned and he looks about seventeen
Speaker 2: and he's talking to the old man. We learned that's
Speaker 2: his grandson. Let's Lawrence's grandson, but not Cynthia's child. The
Speaker 2: family lineage in this episode gets confusing. Were you confused
Speaker 2: or are you kept it going?
Speaker 1: He has two kids, Cynthia is one and the other
Speaker 1: one is a guy, and it's his kid.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's his son's kid.
Speaker 2: Well, it was confusing for me, but then later he goes, oh,
Speaker 2: my nephew, and I was like, oh, so Cynthia is
Speaker 2: not your mom.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so I just wanted to clarify.
Speaker 2: Now he asks his granddad like, hey, intro me to
Speaker 2: one of those hot chicks, and Granddaddy goes, nah, you
Speaker 2: got to do it on your own, like build up
Speaker 2: your confidence. And then he's says something bad and says,
Speaker 2: go easy on the spirits and stay sharper than your target.
Speaker 3: Not good.
Speaker 4: Not good.
Speaker 2: He sets his sights on a bartender cocktail waitress girl,
Speaker 2: and he's really nervous. There's a pickup line. She's working,
Speaker 2: but at the end they're getting on. He's chatting as
Speaker 2: she's wiping down glasses. They're having a good time, and
Speaker 2: he is, you know, bragging how wild it is to
Speaker 2: live with his grandfather in this penthouse. He offers a
Speaker 2: tour and she's scared of getting in trouble. But then
Speaker 2: she was like, oh, I guess my boss is smoking
Speaker 2: weed on the roof and it's like, am I your boss?
Speaker 2: So anyways, she agrees to the tour and then he
Speaker 2: takes out a flask of some sort of fancy tequila
Speaker 2: and they share some tequila on the flask and they
Speaker 2: go on to like hang out in the penthouse. Cut
Speaker 2: to the camera is like on a beautiful view of
Speaker 2: Manhattan in the day, but also the noises of the city, sirens,
Speaker 2: garbage trucks, shit like that, and it pans out and
Speaker 2: uh oh, our girl is passed out, shirt unbuttoned, groggy, confused,
Speaker 2: her pants around her ankles. She grabs her things and
Speaker 2: phone and runs the fuck away. Now we're cutting to
Speaker 2: the precinct and Mariushka looks stunning. Yeah, leather blazer with
Speaker 2: a half up, half down hairstyle behind her CARREESI and
Speaker 2: Rollins are you know?
Speaker 4: Rolling up?
Speaker 2: Finn is taking the sergeant's exam so he will not
Speaker 2: be here today.
Speaker 1: I wonder what iced Tea really had going on that day,
Speaker 1: Like I wonder if it was like, oh, it's baby
Speaker 1: Chanell's birthday and I'm taking her to like euro Disney
Speaker 1: or something like. I mean, there's definitely a reason he's
Speaker 1: not in it, Like he had something.
Speaker 3: He had something, maybe a body count concert. Yeah, we'll
Speaker 3: ask him one day.
Speaker 2: We'll be like, remember that one episode in season seventeen
Speaker 2: eighteen whatever.
Speaker 3: This is where were you? Where were you? Okay?
Speaker 2: Marishka sees the girl walk walking in. So now the
Speaker 2: cater bartender is walking in. Marishka sees her and immediately says,
Speaker 2: can I help you? And she's like, I think I
Speaker 2: was raped, but she doesn't remember anything. Credits, we're back
Speaker 2: at the hospital. Are victims in a hospital robe?
Speaker 3: Now? And she was bartending, you know all.
Speaker 2: She remembers that she was bartending the birthday party of
Speaker 2: an old guy from Avalone stores, and Marishko goes, Lawrence
Speaker 2: so famous, he's well known. I guess these Avalone stores
Speaker 2: are very exciting. She's bartending to pay for school and
Speaker 2: she loved the view and that's all she can remember.
Speaker 2: And she says she just woke up in the middle
Speaker 2: of the living room sore pants down. There is semen
Speaker 2: in the rape kit. She's like, I knew it. I
Speaker 2: must have been drugged or something. So they're going to
Speaker 2: test the urin in the blood and we'll see what's what.
Speaker 2: But she also says like I wouldn't drink at work,
Speaker 2: and even if I did, that's not how I would act,
Speaker 2: Like that's not really my energy and personality.
Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't drink enough to be like fully blacked
Speaker 1: out and have zero memory.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she remembers like talking to a young guy, but
Speaker 2: doesn't remember name or anything.
Speaker 3: She just remembers he had a nice smile.
Speaker 2: So now it's Amanda, CARIESI and Benson trying to figure
Speaker 2: this shit out, and you know, they're doing research on
Speaker 2: the computer. Stock is sinking. He's stayed on past his prime.
Speaker 2: His business is not doing great. He has a new
Speaker 2: girlfriend who is at the party named Suzanne Day and
Speaker 2: that's after his four dev So.
Speaker 3: I think her name is Sue Anne. What did I say, Susan?
Speaker 1: You said Suzanne, And I just think it's funny to
Speaker 1: say Sue Anne because of what it's such a weird name,
Speaker 1: Sue Anne.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she also looks like eight different actresses and yeah,
Speaker 2: of those, it's like, are you this one no or
Speaker 2: this no? Okay, Well I'm confused now yeah, so will
Speaker 2: I say Sue Anne or not, We'll see, But she's
Speaker 2: not a huge part. Okay, guys, it's just trying to
Speaker 2: show that he's a dumb slut and Benson calls him
Speaker 2: a geriatric playboy billionaire, which I love. And all they
Speaker 2: have to go on is that there was a young
Speaker 2: man that smiled, so that's this is going to be
Speaker 2: a tough investigation. So they need to get a list
Speaker 2: of everyone under thirty at that party. So we go
Speaker 2: on to the Avalon store headquarters, but the receptionist says,
Speaker 2: since they didn't do the party, like the household at
Speaker 2: the party, so she doesn't have any info. But Lawrence
Speaker 2: enters the chat and starts flirting with Rollins immediately and
Speaker 2: they're like, babes, we.
Speaker 3: Got to talk. Who's at the party?
Speaker 2: He says, I was at the party, and then Cynthia
Speaker 2: pops right up and he's like, oh, hello, what's up?
Speaker 3: Can I help? That's my daddy, and.
Speaker 2: Cynthia says, oh, everyone was old, and then Lawrence brings
Speaker 2: up Eric, his grandson, fine young boy who lives with him,
Speaker 2: and it's.
Speaker 3: So it's just fucked up that he wouldn't ask for
Speaker 3: a lawyer. He such a like high end businessman who's old.
Speaker 2: But also like, why are you putting your grandson in
Speaker 2: the mix of an investigation. It just doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: that doesn't make sense to me. But Eric's working at
Speaker 2: the office, so the cops go talk to him, and
Speaker 2: Eric recognizes the girl from the photo. He says they
Speaker 2: hung out. He says that consensual sex. Cynthia says, oh, well,
Speaker 2: this girl's just confused and just sees a rich target,
Speaker 2: so go fuck yourselves. And with these rich people, they're
Speaker 2: acting like poor people don't get raped. It's like so
Speaker 2: weird when they're always like it's just our money. It's like, no,
Speaker 2: I don't. Then poor people wouldn't be getting raped and
Speaker 2: raping like stop it, no one cares.
Speaker 1: So do you know you could also like try to
Speaker 1: throw yourself down the stairs at a party like that
Speaker 1: and se a person like to just like pretend you've
Speaker 1: been raped and like I don't know it's or have
Speaker 1: sex with someone. It seems like a lot to go
Speaker 1: for just extortion when there's other ways. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: And check out Kara's new book, How to Extort.
Speaker 3: It's coming out in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: I'll show you how to soft roll down those stairs,
Speaker 1: but get a small injury.
Speaker 3: It'll be on my Instagram.
Speaker 2: And then Robins gets a ping on her phone and
Speaker 2: we got some info and we need you down at
Speaker 2: the station and Cynthia's like, please do not go, and
Speaker 2: Eric goes, n I'm good, Like everything's okay. I didn't
Speaker 2: do anything wrong, I swear. So everyone's in interrogation and
Speaker 2: then Eric suddenly is super confused because they found kueludes
Speaker 2: in the victim's body, and he goes, isn't that.
Speaker 3: An old person drug? Yeah? It is, So how did
Speaker 3: they get there? Was she high with you?
Speaker 2: He says, no, we just had two tequila shots from
Speaker 2: this flask and I drink from it too.
Speaker 3: There's no way they talked.
Speaker 2: They went to his room and then they made out
Speaker 2: and she was into it and she did say yes,
Speaker 2: and you know, like.
Speaker 4: They had consensual sex.
Speaker 2: And then he goes, I guess my grandpa's right, and
Speaker 2: you need a contract before you kiss the girl. So
Speaker 2: I bet you know Lawrence is really into cancel culture
Speaker 2: politics as well.
Speaker 4: I'm assuming.
Speaker 3: This is yeah in cells are not just young, okay.
Speaker 2: So Eric's father barges into the room He says, we're
Speaker 2: leaving where you're coming home with me, not to your
Speaker 2: grandfather's and drags his son out his mother's in Italy.
Speaker 2: That's all we really know about her. Now, Benson says,
Speaker 2: Barbara is getting a search warrant, so let's go.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, can I also say something?
Speaker 1: A listener sent us a video, but they sent it
Speaker 1: to us in a way that like, once I watched it,
Speaker 1: I couldn't watch it again. But it is Benson saying
Speaker 1: Barbara in an episode.
Speaker 2: Well, please send that back to us, guys, I.
Speaker 3: Need to see as a permanent video. We need to
Speaker 3: see that.
Speaker 1: I'll try to find the message and right back. But
Speaker 1: like I was, like I watched it and was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, we're not alone.
Speaker 3: That's so amazing.
Speaker 2: So now we're at fifty fourth Street at the residence
Speaker 2: of Lawrence Hendrix and the girlfriend's like, oh no, what
Speaker 2: should I do?
Speaker 3: Oh my god? And she's a bimbo love her? Did
Speaker 3: you find out if?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: Okay, So she I've seen in tons of stuff.
Speaker 1: So her name is Jackie Debateon or Debatan, and she's
Speaker 1: Elizabeth the stripper in many in three episodes of the Office,
Speaker 1: which you might remember her from But also, do you
Speaker 1: remember the character doctor Armand on Kroll Show?
Speaker 3: Did you ever watch that? Yeah, like she plays his wife.
Speaker 1: I think like she's like I think she has like
Speaker 1: a bunch of like fake plastic surgery and stuff like.
Speaker 1: So I've seen her in a ton of stuff. She
Speaker 1: has a hundred credits, like this bitch works.
Speaker 3: The Kroll Show was so good.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I was like truly upset when it
Speaker 1: got canceled. I loved it so much. But I thought
Speaker 1: it was so good publicity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked those girls with their straws so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's really talented. Yeah, I mean I think he's
Speaker 1: put it all into big mouth now. But I would
Speaker 1: love another sketch show in the future. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think he's just gonna be working.
Speaker 2: We'll see him forever, you know, outside of Julia Louis Dreyfus,
Speaker 2: I'd say he's the second most talented comedic actor coming
Speaker 2: from a billionaire.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, she's from more money than him, I think.
Speaker 1: But but yeahs billions. I gotta say, when there's nepotism, Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, he might just be millions.
Speaker 3: He's like shipping like he's an heir.
Speaker 1: Of he's like a defense guy. Like he's I've read
Speaker 1: a long article about him one time, like he has
Speaker 1: he's like the guy you go to.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think he sounds a little scary.
Speaker 4: But anyway, and.
Speaker 2: Nick, can you tell your dad to get some weapons
Speaker 2: to Ukraine?
Speaker 3: That would be great, do a little conference call.
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is my brother always, Colin always
Speaker 1: says to Kevin, because my brother Kevin was in the military,
Speaker 1: He's like, Kevin, you majored in defense against the Dark Arts?
Speaker 3: Can you tell us what's going on in Ukraine right now?
Speaker 1: I just like to talk about the military, like it's
Speaker 1: defense against the dark arts?
Speaker 4: Okay, go on.
Speaker 2: You know I messaged with your brother and they said
Speaker 2: he said that him and his fiance were debating about
Speaker 2: again getting two ducks and didn't because of my bullying.
Speaker 3: Did you tell them that you were recently talking about
Speaker 3: the ducks again?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And then I sent him duck emojis. I go, I
Speaker 2: was talking about this at the table.
Speaker 3: At Saint Patrick's Stone Creasy finds Condoms.
Speaker 2: We're back, do you guys remember we're at We're at
Speaker 2: the residences.
Speaker 3: I'm fifty fourth with a search warrant.
Speaker 2: We're a little we're in the kids room, right, yeah, Eric,
Speaker 2: the teen, Yeah, the teen so careasy finds condoms and
Speaker 2: weed but like no, biggie. But then uh oh, they
Speaker 2: find pills, so they're gonna send the pills to the
Speaker 2: lab and see what happens. Back at the precinct, Benson
Speaker 2: is with the victim and she's like, wayludes, I don't
Speaker 2: even know what that is, and Benson explains it that
Speaker 2: they induce a euphoric, hypnotic state and memory loss.
Speaker 1: I just always think of Samantha going it must have
Speaker 1: been the ludes or whatever.
Speaker 2: Well not only Okay, so the rumor is Jane Fonda
Speaker 2: has coeludes, so she might have coeloads at her house.
Speaker 2: Coeluds are what Leonardo DiCaprio's character was on at Wolf
Speaker 2: of Wall Street when he did some of the best
Speaker 2: acting I've ever seen, and like Bendy Bendy walking to
Speaker 2: his car, like the most incredible acting.
Speaker 3: And then I think of kludes.
Speaker 2: I think of Hugh Hefner because I'm going to get
Speaker 2: into that.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get into you are, yeah, but also, wait,
Speaker 1: what do you mean about Jane Fonda.
Speaker 3: What do you mean she has coayloads she just keeps.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was from Chelsea Handler or what.
Speaker 2: But there's like a thing like Jane Fonda has a
Speaker 2: container of coeludes and she might be like the last person.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're fun if you just want to like zonk
Speaker 1: out in your bed or something that a fun company.
Speaker 2: I don't think you should drug people. But also how
Speaker 2: much are people doing then you know, yeah, maybe there's
Speaker 2: a small amount. Maybe you can micro dose kueludes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because we also or if it mixes with alcohol or something,
Speaker 2: because we have a friend who doesn't love to drink,
Speaker 2: but they do GHB, which is the date rape drug.
Speaker 2: But if it's not mixed with alcohol, I guess it's
Speaker 2: like pretty chill. Or I'm not encouraging people to date
Speaker 2: rape drug themselves in any capacity. I'm just saying, we
Speaker 2: have a friend who date rape drugs himself. Gotcha to
Speaker 2: go dancing?
Speaker 1: Don't do anything without supervision of someone who knows drugs
Speaker 1: better than you're.
Speaker 2: Doing knocking it out too, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: But also some of you aren't scared to let you
Speaker 2: know us know when you fucking hated everything we.
Speaker 3: Did, so you know, we'll hear from one of you
Speaker 3: or two.
Speaker 2: Of you, you know, And I left that sometimes you
Speaker 2: guys write to the Instagram account like we're not the
Speaker 2: ones on it.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes they think we're not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think because I think like my favorite Murder
Speaker 1: and other pods might have somebody else running their ig,
Speaker 1: but you guys need to know that it is us
Speaker 1: running our ig.
Speaker 2: Yeah when you go, Yeah, Lisa was pretty terrible in
Speaker 2: this episode.
Speaker 3: I'm reading I'm Lisa, I am, I am reading I'm Lisa.
Speaker 2: Like all right, So we're back to the kailudes, Benson's
Speaker 2: talking about it. Then she's Benson shows the victim photos
Speaker 2: of the young men. So she's going through the photos
Speaker 2: and she does recognize Eric from the party, So is
Speaker 2: it possible it was him? She says, yes, I for
Speaker 2: sure talk to him, and Benson's like, I talked to
Speaker 2: him too, and he said you had consensual sex and
Speaker 2: She's like, wait he did?
Speaker 3: I don't remember that or anything else, like is this it?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: What is happening?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 3: Things get even more twisted.
Speaker 2: Lab results are back, two separate semen samples are inside
Speaker 2: of her, So now two men have like raped her,
Speaker 2: and it's a super sad exchange when Marishka lets her
Speaker 2: know and she runs off pissed, like you better find
Speaker 2: these men, and then it's a commercial break style pause.
Speaker 2: Now finally Eric has a lawyer for such like rich
Speaker 2: rich people. It's weird that he was everyone's just gibber
Speaker 2: jabbering with the police. And yeah, like with Cynthia being
Speaker 2: so scared of people coming after their money, it's weird
Speaker 2: that they just let their nephew go without anything.
Speaker 3: But I'm sure Cynthia knows more than she lets on.
Speaker 2: So the actor who plays the lawyer is Rafael Subarge
Speaker 2: and he has one hundred and seventy seven IMDb characters.
Speaker 3: He looks super familiar, but he's not.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't think I've seen stuff he's been in,
Speaker 1: but I like hated him on the show.
Speaker 2: I was like, ugh, oh, yeah, I confused him with
Speaker 2: someone else that looks like him. But he was in
Speaker 2: Dexter in season five, is like an IAB type of guy. So,
Speaker 2: and he's been in like SVU Law and Order la
Speaker 2: oh yeah, was in another SVU called Wanna Bee in
Speaker 2: twenty ten. So I don't know, but he's working okay,
Speaker 2: I thought of look familiar.
Speaker 4: He didn't. He's not.
Speaker 2: I don't know this. I do not know this man.
Speaker 2: Sorry to this man, Sorry to this man. Kiki Palmer
Speaker 2: another SVU. Okay, he's being cocky, like, you're not arresting
Speaker 2: my client because another suspects, so shut up, and they're like, actually,
Speaker 2: we found Kloe ludes in your client's room and in
Speaker 2: her butt blood, so we have every right to fucking
Speaker 2: arrest your client right now, So cooperate and let's figure
Speaker 2: this out. Was there anyone else in the room? And
Speaker 2: Eric go's like a gangbang No, when I liked that,
Speaker 2: So what fucking happened to her? He said that she
Speaker 2: like he fell asleep, and Amanda's like, you didn't walk
Speaker 2: her out or ask for her number or anything. So
Speaker 2: he goes listen, when I woke up, she wasn't there,
Speaker 2: and they're like, yeah, she was here reporting a rape,
Speaker 2: and Eric is getting annoyed. And then we pull back
Speaker 2: to see like this, you know, the spy crew, and
Speaker 2: Benson has thick rimmed black glasses and she gets the
Speaker 2: Emmy report and now we have another twist. One sample
Speaker 2: is eric sperm, so we have that. The other is
Speaker 2: a familial match. So it's either granddaddy or Eric's father, Larry,
Speaker 2: and he's you know, the dad did shut down the
Speaker 2: first interrogation, so the plot definitely thickens. Now Kriese goes
Speaker 2: to talk to the dad and they're jogging up a
Speaker 2: windy like staircase as he explains he worked for the
Speaker 2: family business but now works for the charitable foundation because
Speaker 2: he wants to stay away as far from the business
Speaker 2: as he can. He does not like the grandpa. He
Speaker 2: does not think Grandpa's a good influence on Eric. And
Speaker 2: they have a warrant for the dad's DNA and they
Speaker 2: swab his ass and that's that. Now there's a warrant
Speaker 2: for Lawrence's DNA too, And you know my favorite when
Speaker 2: they go into a giant boardroom meetings to humiliate a
Speaker 2: man in authority. And so in front of this giant
Speaker 2: desk of people, Cynthia is there, everyone's there, Amanda's like,
Speaker 2: open wide, please, But before he swabs, he says, I
Speaker 2: had sex with that girl in front of everybody, and
Speaker 2: Amanda goes, oh, you did. You didn't mention that before,
Speaker 2: And he goes, why should I My sex life is
Speaker 2: nobody's business, and it's like, well, when there's an investigation,
Speaker 2: you would mention it, like what the I hate him,
Speaker 2: I hate him, I hate him, I hate him. But
Speaker 2: he's admitting having sex with like this young girl, and
Speaker 2: the other employees are uncomfortable, grossed out. They're like covering
Speaker 2: their eyes, like they do not like him, they hate
Speaker 2: his body, they hate him. Then Cynthia goes like, you
Speaker 2: don't have to answer Amanda's questions. But it's like no
Speaker 2: one even asked him a question. He volunteered all of
Speaker 2: that information, like people just came for DNA, so no
Speaker 2: one's asking him any questions. He's just truly talking and
Speaker 2: bragging in front of all of these employees who are
Speaker 2: sad to be around him. But Rollins is like, wait,
Speaker 2: so she came on to you before after fucking your grandson,
Speaker 2: and he gives her an evil look. So now the victims,
Speaker 2: Sarah and Benson are in the office. So Benson goes like,
Speaker 2: sometimes memories come back in pieces, so we're gonna show
Speaker 2: you some photos and maybe I'll get your memory back up.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: So there's a pick of Eric like talking to her
Speaker 2: and showing her something as she's bartending, and she goes, oh,
Speaker 2: I do remember that. It's like this bracelet got from
Speaker 2: Africa made out elephant hair, and she was like, wait, no,
Speaker 2: we did have sex. She's like, no, I wanted to
Speaker 2: have sex. And they're like, are you sorry? And she goes,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm so sorry. How much trouble did
Speaker 2: I get him in? And Bence is like, none, as
Speaker 2: long as that's what you remember, and that's what happened,
Speaker 2: and she goes, but this other man, I don't know
Speaker 2: who that is. There's no way it was consensual. Do
Speaker 2: you know who it is? So they are going through
Speaker 2: the photos and then they you know, they see Lawrence
Speaker 2: and she goes, there's no fucking way I woult to
Speaker 2: fuck that old man. And he's like, well he said
Speaker 2: that you guys had sex, and she goes, that is disgusting.
Speaker 3: I would never sleep with him.
Speaker 2: And she starts crying and like and they're like, do
Speaker 2: you remember talking to him or anything? And then Sarah goes,
Speaker 2: you said you found drugs in Eric's room and Benson
Speaker 2: explains they could have been planted, and she's like, he
Speaker 2: who would set up their own grandson? I don't I
Speaker 2: don't understand what's happening. So she's having a rough go.
Speaker 2: So now they they're like, listen, can you please help
Speaker 2: us with this investigation? And she's sniffling, but she's like, okay,
Speaker 2: I'll go undercovered, don't worry. So now Sarah as meeting
Speaker 2: Cynthia and old man Lawrence by the water in a
Speaker 2: classic sting operation, and he goes, what do you want
Speaker 2: a job or money? Let us know, no hard feelings,
Speaker 2: and her response is like, ah, I don't want money.
Speaker 2: I want an apology, and he says, sorry, you regret
Speaker 2: fucking but hey, it happens. And she's like, no, you
Speaker 2: drugged me, and he says, whatever, you needed to relax
Speaker 2: and you should be thinking me. He says you enjoyed it,
Speaker 2: and she says I was unconscious. He then calls her Monica,
Speaker 2: and then Cynthia right away shuts it down and goes,
Speaker 2: I think we need to leave too late. You just
Speaker 2: admitted to drugging her. We tape that whole conversation, and
Speaker 2: the detective's outerwear is sick as hell.
Speaker 3: Okay, we have a great.
Speaker 2: Trench coat peacoat Combo Vibe on Benson and there's twelve
Speaker 2: giant buttons I counted, and three additional clips on this coat.
Speaker 2: This is a lot of hardware. And then Cariese's in
Speaker 2: a camel like pea coat. And with my favorite badge placement,
Speaker 2: you know when they like put it on the side
Speaker 2: on the collar and they clip it on the outside
Speaker 2: of the caller.
Speaker 3: You like that or no? Is that your favorite badge placement.
Speaker 1: Or but I've never you know what, I've never considered
Speaker 1: my favorite badge placement, but I love it.
Speaker 3: I do love something different. I don't like.
Speaker 1: I did not like the stabler trying to pin a
Speaker 1: badge onto a leather jacket.
Speaker 4: So I'm with you on the badge placement.
Speaker 1: Oh. Can I also say that Cynthia is a big
Speaker 1: character in Bosh Oh okay, cool?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you really kept that quiet.
Speaker 1: Shit wife Bosh's ex wife, And I was like watching
Speaker 1: it was like, wait, how do I know this woman?
Speaker 3: I'm like, Bosh, Yes, I just know. My Bosh beds
Speaker 3: that listens to.
Speaker 1: This podcast are gonna be like, Kara, we can't believe
Speaker 1: you didn't mention that, And here I am mentioning it.
Speaker 3: Go on, Oh no, this is good.
Speaker 2: So Cynthia, like you could tell his thinking something, so
Speaker 2: hopefully she'll turn on her dad we'll see. But the
Speaker 2: same lawyer runs in, so he's gonna defend dad, you know,
Speaker 2: Daddy Lawrence and baby Eric, and they slut shame Sarah
Speaker 2: and they say that she loves drugs and fucking and
Speaker 2: she's just a party girl. Barbara and Benson are doing
Speaker 2: a walk and talk in the court hallways and they're like,
Speaker 2: he's a billionaire. Of course they're going to go for
Speaker 2: her credibility. Barbarbara says, once the jury sees him, there's
Speaker 2: no way they're gonna believe that she would have willingly
Speaker 2: had sex with this man.
Speaker 4: But uh oh.
Speaker 2: Barbara gets news that Cynthia, the daughter, is filing that
Speaker 2: the dad is mentally incompetent to stand trial. So Barbara
Speaker 2: barges into the civil court, where he has no standing,
Speaker 2: but his position is set forth. He's like, this is
Speaker 2: in bad faith, Like they're just trying to do this
Speaker 2: to avoid the criminal charges, and everyone's like, you don't
Speaker 2: even belong in the civil court. And then the grandpa
Speaker 2: starts agreeing with Barbara, and we're like what and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: my daughter's trying to steal my company.
Speaker 4: Fuck her.
Speaker 2: Barbara and rich people lawyer now are in chambers trying
Speaker 2: to sway the judge in their direction, So, like, is
Speaker 2: he capable to stand trial or not guilty? Not guilty? Insanity?
Speaker 2: Like what's happening? The judge says, like, we'll let a
Speaker 2: jury decide and we're going to go for it. So
Speaker 2: shut up and get out of here. I'm gonna eat
Speaker 2: my lunch. Benson and Barbara are arguing. They're trying to
Speaker 2: figure out what's up, and they have to prove the
Speaker 2: case on evidence and ship away at the defense because
Speaker 2: now the daughter gets what she wants, Like the dad's
Speaker 2: gonna get a free pass on this rape charge and
Speaker 2: she's gonna be in charge of this huge company that's
Speaker 2: been failing, like Cynthia's up to no good. Barba says,
Speaker 2: I'm confident and angry, and Benson goes, hell, yeah, I
Speaker 2: do like to see you this way.
Speaker 3: We have a lot of work.
Speaker 2: To do, we have a lot of like games to
Speaker 2: play in this court field. But you're gonna you know,
Speaker 2: if you're pissed and you feel good about yourself, then
Speaker 2: I'm excited. Barbara, now in court, plays the video of
Speaker 2: him admitting the drugging. They cut to Eric's face in
Speaker 2: the courtroom and he makes a face. Okay, it's like
Speaker 2: an aha moment. He's like, Okay, what's up. So I'm
Speaker 2: kind of optimistic maybe Eric's gonna like figure something out.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Sarah takes the stand and she says, like, Honestly,
Speaker 2: when I confronted them about the drugging, I was hoping
Speaker 2: he would deny it and it would make it like
Speaker 2: not be true. I did not want any of this.
Speaker 2: I hoped it was not true. He tried to buy
Speaker 2: her off and excuse it like it was no big deal.
Speaker 2: And uh, you know, he was rational and coherent, and
Speaker 2: she adds awful.
Speaker 3: So that's what's happening.
Speaker 2: And now it's cross examination, and this lawyer is pretty
Speaker 2: slick and is now going to use all her words
Speaker 2: against her. So you know, she says like, yeah, he
Speaker 2: was sick, and they're like, wow, sick, okay, and you're
Speaker 2: saying he was rational and coherent. So in a coherent state,
Speaker 2: he thought there was nothing wrong with drugging women. Like
Speaker 2: he seems like maybe he does have some mental problems.
Speaker 2: And it's like, no, he's a criminal, Like I don't.
Speaker 2: Of course, like criminals think what they're doing is fine,
Speaker 2: but maybe that means you're mentally unwell.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is like a whole other I mean.
Speaker 1: You can be so entitled that you're mentally unwell, Like
Speaker 1: your sense of entitlement is so huge that you literally
Speaker 1: come off as a person with mental issues.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so now they see what's happening, and it's a
Speaker 2: whole squad meeting in the hallway again like fuck, you know,
Speaker 2: the jury usually needs to hear a victim's account, but
Speaker 2: there's quayludes.
Speaker 3: But Barbara goes, maybe I have a trick.
Speaker 2: Like the way he acted on this tape, there's no
Speaker 2: way this is his first time. Maybe we can find
Speaker 2: another case, and Rollins goes, we've been looking. So now
Speaker 2: they're like, well, maybe the billionaire girlfriend. Can we, like,
Speaker 2: you know, try to turn her And they're like, against
Speaker 2: a billionaire who pays.
Speaker 1: My Yeah, she's not a billionaire, she's a billionaire's girlfriend.
Speaker 2: Yes, They're like, well, it's gonna be really hard to
Speaker 2: turn her. So now you know, the girlfriend's in Barbara's
Speaker 2: office and Benson is telling her that she's going to
Speaker 2: be charged with tampering of evidence by planting the quayludes
Speaker 2: in Eric's room, and there's an FBI report with your
Speaker 2: fingerprints on it, so we'll see you in court at
Speaker 2: nine am or you're going to prison. And Barbara she's like,
Speaker 2: that's outrageous and runs off, and then Barbara goes, wait,
Speaker 2: there's no FBI report, is there? Do you even know
Speaker 2: if she did it? And she goes, no, but if
Speaker 2: she shows up in court, we'll know. So love that
Speaker 2: hate when the cops lie. I love when Benson lies, though,
Speaker 2: so naparat And is on the stand saying she did
Speaker 2: place the drugs from Lawrence's to Eric's bedroom and she
Speaker 2: knows it was wrong, but she panicked and they were like, well,
Speaker 2: how did you even know that he had quailudes and
Speaker 2: she says, well, I use them all the time when
Speaker 2: we have sex. So he drugs his girlfriend to fuck,
Speaker 2: and he only likes to fuck on these drugs without
Speaker 2: her consent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the fucking thing.
Speaker 4: That's the thing.
Speaker 1: When people are like Bill Cosby, It's or any of
Speaker 1: that stuff, it's like they like to be having sex
Speaker 1: with someone incapacitated.
Speaker 3: It's not like they can't get women to have sex
Speaker 3: with them.
Speaker 1: You know, because this guy has a girlfriend, she'd probably
Speaker 1: have sex with him regularly.
Speaker 2: But instead he like roofies her ooh dark, and she says,
Speaker 2: like he tries to hide what he's doing, but she
Speaker 2: knows and sees and that's that. So her on the
Speaker 2: stand talking about all the old shit that he likes
Speaker 2: to watch and talk about in old Friends, pans to
Speaker 2: now Lawrence on the stand talking about like that he
Speaker 2: doesn't even know what year it is, and they keep
Speaker 2: panning to Eric's face, so we're like, what is Eric
Speaker 2: going to do? Like when is Eric going to be
Speaker 2: mad that his dad is I mean his grandpa did
Speaker 2: something like what's going to happen? But basically with the
Speaker 2: old movie stuff and not knowing what year, they're trying
Speaker 2: to prove that he's not mentally capable to, you know,
Speaker 2: stand trial do this. Doesn't know what he's doing because
Speaker 2: he keeps talking about Jaws, and it's like, all right,
Speaker 2: he calls the pills thigh openers and I have heard
Speaker 2: that before. He says, there's no big deal and if
Speaker 2: they're coming to the party, they know what to expect,
Speaker 2: so fuck off. He basically saw her and Eric leave
Speaker 2: the room after fucking, then had drinks with them, then
Speaker 2: drugged and raped her, and he still thinks it sex,
Speaker 2: which is insane.
Speaker 3: So I guess maybe he shouldn't. I don't.
Speaker 2: This is so complicated, it's so complicated. He goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was my turn, and I don't see anything wrong
Speaker 2: with that.
Speaker 3: So that's that.
Speaker 2: But so now it's Barbara's turn, and he's trying to
Speaker 2: prove that all of this is a fucking phony. Act
Speaker 2: about like that. He thinks it's the seventies and he
Speaker 2: only knows about Jaws. Is like, it's not real. So
Speaker 2: Barbara goes, do you have a desktop computer?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah, they're great. And he goes, well,
Speaker 2: they didn't exist in nineteen seventy five, you know that, right,
Speaker 2: And he goes, oh, of course we have computers. How
Speaker 2: else would we go to the moon? And then Barba
Speaker 2: shows a photo of his offices in nineteen seventy five
Speaker 2: with not a computer there, and then he goes, but
Speaker 2: you have computers now, right, you have tons of computers.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy five you have twenty two stores. Now
Speaker 2: you have nine hundred stores. You're telling me you don't
Speaker 2: know the fucking difference between that? Do you not understand this?
Speaker 2: Do you like you know? Then Barbara picks up his
Speaker 2: iPhone and goes, do you know what this is? And
Speaker 2: he goes, yeah, it's a phone. And it's like, well,
Speaker 2: this isn't what phones look like in the seventies or fifties,
Speaker 2: so how the fuck do you know this is a phone?
Speaker 3: So you guys get what's happening.
Speaker 2: And then barbara final question little button goes, did you
Speaker 2: know that drugging and raping women was illegal in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy five? And the defense tries to object and Barba
Speaker 2: takes the question away. But I don't see how that
Speaker 2: question is bad.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't remember what the objection was.
Speaker 2: So now Barba and Benson are telling Eric like the
Speaker 2: defense is gonna work, and he does seem insane and
Speaker 2: Benson says, you never told us you had drinks with
Speaker 2: him after Why are you protecting him? And Eric says
Speaker 2: because he's a good person, and then his son Larry
Speaker 2: is like, no, he's not. He's selfish and disgusting, and
Speaker 2: Eric goes, you're just mad he fired you and my
Speaker 2: loser mom had a crush on him, and Larry goes.
Speaker 3: What the fuck did you say?
Speaker 2: And Eric goes, no, what he said was that mom
Speaker 2: was a party girl who likes to have fun. And
Speaker 2: Larry goes, you shut your fucking mouth and don't ever
Speaker 2: talk about your mother that way. And he says, fine,
Speaker 2: but I'm not testifying against grandpa. He says, if you
Speaker 2: need help putting my father away, put me on the stand.
Speaker 2: So I'm excited to see what happens. He knew Larry's
Speaker 2: going to be a hero. So now Larry's on, I
Speaker 2: only keep thinking about Lauren's dad, s Aarry sauce. So
Speaker 2: Larry says that he sees his father, Lawrence once a
Speaker 2: month at the board meeting, and he knows what fucking
Speaker 2: century it's in. He's faking this because he does not
Speaker 2: want to go to jail. The defense is spinning a
Speaker 2: story of jealousy that the business went from him to
Speaker 2: his sister and he got booted from the company, and
Speaker 2: he goes, no, I walked away, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: look at this nineteen ninety six news article where you're
Speaker 2: being named COO and there's your wife Monica and the
Speaker 2: old man and you look fucking happy. And then two
Speaker 2: months later you're out and exiled and you hold no
Speaker 2: ill will. And he responds it's not a secret. I
Speaker 2: don't like my father, Like what are you getting at?
Speaker 2: And they're like it's clear why this guy is here,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I'm here to tell the truth. He
Speaker 2: walks out fast, and Benson says, I know you wanted
Speaker 2: to say the truth, but you didn't say the whole truth.
Speaker 2: And he says, what are you talking about? And they're like, hello, Monica.
Speaker 2: Benson reveals the Monica tape slip. Why would he call
Speaker 2: Sarah Monica? He says that was probably a mistake, and
Speaker 2: she pushes the dad and was like, no, you got divorced.
Speaker 2: What happened? What did your father do? So they're just like,
Speaker 2: come on, dude, help Whatever your reason for not being
Speaker 2: open is, we get it. But Eric is protecting his grandfather,
Speaker 2: so you need to make sure Eric knows what kind
Speaker 2: of man his grandfather is. When you know, the grandfather testifies,
Speaker 2: we cut to Eric on the verge of tears like
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, he just made a mistake, you know, and
Speaker 2: his father stands behind him, and then we have Barbara
Speaker 2: and Benson together and Barba's like, you lie to the
Speaker 2: cops so I can charge you with obstruction, just so
Speaker 2: you fucking know and he lied that. You know, he
Speaker 2: had drinks with the grandpa and Sarah and he saw
Speaker 2: that happen.
Speaker 3: So they're just like, we're gonna charge your dumbass.
Speaker 2: Larry is like, just tell them if you know something,
Speaker 2: and he spins his head around so fast and says,
Speaker 2: you want to put your father in jail? I wouldn't
Speaker 2: do that to you, And Larry's like, well I don't
Speaker 2: deserve it, lol, And Eric's like, because you're boring and
Speaker 2: Grandpa is a fun life, or because Cynthia is in charge,
Speaker 2: and Larry's like, I just didn't want to see him,
Speaker 2: like see him. I hate him and I didn't want
Speaker 2: to come in every day at work and see him.
Speaker 2: And Eric goes, what did he ever do to you?
Speaker 2: And find it comes out and basically he drugged Eric's mother,
Speaker 2: his son's, his daughter in law, and raped Eric's mother
Speaker 2: so while she.
Speaker 3: Was pregnant with Eric. Wow.
Speaker 1: Horrible, not that it's like better or worse, but it's
Speaker 1: like an added level of horror.
Speaker 3: I feel like, well, the horror.
Speaker 2: Is like for Eric where it's like you're protecting this
Speaker 2: guy who truly like didn't care if you lived or died,
Speaker 2: and drugged your mom, Like god, yeah, So he's still
Speaker 2: not getting it though, it's like very annoying, Like this
Speaker 2: kid is a fucking idiot. Benson explains. When he sees
Speaker 2: someone younger than him with someone prettier, he can't stand it,
Speaker 2: you know. And then Larry goes, your mom was radiant
Speaker 2: and we had a party and he drugged and raped
Speaker 2: her and they never got over it, and that's why
Speaker 2: they split, and that's who he is. And so Eric
Speaker 2: finally is getting it maybe but can't really believe it.
Speaker 2: And we're at court part fifteen. Finally Eric tells the truth.
Speaker 2: He says he wanted to walk Sarah out, but Grandpa
Speaker 2: was waiting by the bar. He already made a few
Speaker 2: drinks and proposed a nightcap, and he grabbed one and
Speaker 2: Grandpa said, no, that's not for you, and then he
Speaker 2: gave that one to Sarah. Also, he knows it's twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: and Eric says yes, and that he likes that Eric
Speaker 2: can relate to younger generations and even asked him to
Speaker 2: do like a market thing with Pokemon Go. So he's
Speaker 2: with it and he gets it. And what else did
Speaker 2: he say that night bar? But asked and The response
Speaker 2: was that he winked at him and said, God, I
Speaker 2: missed the old days. He then apologizes to Sarah as
Speaker 2: old man Lawrence jumps up and screams, you're just as
Speaker 2: soft as your father, and I was trying to show
Speaker 2: you how to be a man. And you don't apologize.
Speaker 2: You take what's yours and you don't have what it takes.
Speaker 2: Benson touches Sarah's shoulder, and now they caught to like
Speaker 2: everyone watching laptop news viewing, and he has been found guilty.
Speaker 2: A call comes in and Creasey answers. Rollins asked, Benson,
Speaker 2: do you think this generation is better? And Cariasey says, hey,
Speaker 2: rape just happened at a bar, and Benson says, nah,
Speaker 2: I don't think anything is better different, it's just younger.
Speaker 2: Then Benson answers a call, and then another phone rings
Speaker 2: as like the lights turn out and it's this thing
Speaker 2: of like everyone's getting raped all the time, and that's
Speaker 2: dick wolf baby boom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a twisty episode.
Speaker 1: I think, like the reveal about Eric's mom's rape was
Speaker 1: like I remember when I watched this episode, I was like.
Speaker 2: Damn yeah, and I you know this obviously is a
Speaker 2: newer episode based on a newer style crime that I
Speaker 2: really like. I know the names involved, and I remember
Speaker 2: the news, but I really don't know anything.
Speaker 3: So I'm really intrigued to know the story.
Speaker 1: Kara, Well, a few words from our sponsors and I'll
Speaker 1: be right back to tell it. This is a that's
Speaker 1: what's up first where you'll see who our guest is.
Speaker 3: But I was able to fully verify what.
Speaker 1: This episode is based on, as well as get the
Speaker 1: same resources that were used in putting this episode together,
Speaker 1: because this is listed in some places as being based
Speaker 1: on Trump, but apparently that's not really true. We know
Speaker 1: for a fact that this episode is based on a
Speaker 1: few different stories, but in part, the Lawrence Hendrick story
Speaker 1: character excuse me, is based on Sumner Redstone, who is
Speaker 1: a billion it was past tense, a billionaire businessman and
Speaker 1: media magnate. Someone who knew him described him in this
Speaker 1: article from USA Today that I read as the image
Speaker 1: of a Grandpa butt, the attitude of a viper so
Speaker 1: very similar to this character that you saw. He was
Speaker 1: the founder and chairman of Viacom, or the second Coming
Speaker 1: of Viacom, basically, which was dissolved in twenty nineteen, a
Speaker 1: year before he died, and he was the majority owner
Speaker 1: and chairman of National Amusements, theater chain, which was his
Speaker 1: father's business. And so through National Amusements, he was this
Speaker 1: majority voting shareholder at ViacomCBS. Viacom owns CBS the channel.
Speaker 1: They later became the parent company of Paramount Pictures. And
Speaker 1: underneath Paramount is like Nickelodeon and a bunch of other stuff,
Speaker 1: MTV all that's part of Viacom, MTVVH one country music channel. Oh,
Speaker 1: and he owned Blockbuster some in the Redstone, like owned
Speaker 1: the Blockbuster at some point too.
Speaker 2: Well that makes sense, that's just funny. And what kind
Speaker 2: of name is that?
Speaker 4: Some nerve?
Speaker 3: That's not real? Well, what you know, what's weird?
Speaker 1: He I thought, some in Redstone this is probably a
Speaker 1: Southern man from like you know, Mayflower descendants. No, this
Speaker 1: is a Jewish man whose family changed their name from
Speaker 1: red Rothstein to Redstone, which apparently is what it means
Speaker 1: or something. And then Sumner is such a like a
Speaker 1: rich man. I mean some tho sounds like fulk sumptera
Speaker 1: or something like. It sounds to me like just I
Speaker 1: don't know what the first name comes from but a
Speaker 1: Jewish man from like Massachusetts, and his family is still
Speaker 1: the majority of voting shareholder at Viacom. Apparently so. According
Speaker 1: to Forbes, as of April twenty twenty, he was worth
Speaker 1: two point six billion, although some places I read it
Speaker 1: was a little bit more.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's his personal fortune versus business fortune, but anyway.
Speaker 1: He died in August of twenty twenty at the age
Speaker 1: of ninety seven, after saying for years that he would
Speaker 1: live forever. Like his whole thing was, I'm gonna live forever.
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna die. And in January of twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: he told the Hollywood Reporter, when asked about who would
Speaker 1: succeed him, he screamed, and he was like, I will
Speaker 1: not discuss succession.
Speaker 3: You know why, I'm not going to die.
Speaker 1: Well, sorry to say his prediction was not true. So
Speaker 1: he became the executive chairman of both CVS and Viacom.
Speaker 3: I just said CVS.
Speaker 1: So he became the executive chairman of CBS and Viacom.
Speaker 3: So you know that's a deep joke.
Speaker 4: Do you remember that?
Speaker 3: No? Wait, who's the hot one? The hot evil one
Speaker 3: with no soul?
Speaker 4: I had Dan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dan was talking and who's my girl?
Speaker 3: What's her name? Anna Clumpski? I forgot what her name
Speaker 3: is on the show. But so her.
Speaker 2: Sister and Dan are at the bar and she says, oh,
Speaker 2: I work at CBS. But he heard CBS and he
Speaker 2: wanted to work as a correspondent, and so he fucked
Speaker 2: her to like get a job, and then she was.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I mean you can work nights. We're looking
Speaker 3: for someone.
Speaker 2: So we thought he was going to do the nightly
Speaker 2: news and then he fucked somewhere that worked at CBS.
Speaker 4: Oh so good.
Speaker 1: So an interesting little backstory on Sumner Redstone is that
Speaker 1: he did survive a fire at the Boston Copley Plaza
Speaker 1: hotel that was started by a disgruntled teenage bus boy
Speaker 1: wild and he survived by hanging from a third story
Speaker 1: ledge out the window. And he somehow survived this fire,
Speaker 1: but he had he had burns over forty five percent
Speaker 1: of his body and they were like, you'll never live
Speaker 1: a normal life, and he was like, yes, I will,
Speaker 1: and he basically did almost fully recover. He has kind
Speaker 1: of a gnarled hand, but he's obsessed with tennis and
Speaker 1: so he somehow has a tennis racket, like strapped to
Speaker 1: that hand that he plays tennis like every day. He
Speaker 1: was playing tennis like every day when he was able
Speaker 1: to for like years, even though he had this horrible injury.
Speaker 1: So anyway, eight years after this fire, he takes control
Speaker 1: of Viracom after a four month hostile takeover in like
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven, I think it was so in twenty
Speaker 1: fifteen is around when people start speculating about his mental health.
Speaker 1: His public appearances are very rare, except for visits to
Speaker 1: a few Hollywood restaurants like Dan Tana's, Craigs, and Il Piccolino.
Speaker 1: I've been to Dan Tana's, It's whatever. I've never been
Speaker 1: to Craigs, but I do hear that that's a very
Speaker 1: good place to go if you want to see celebrities.
Speaker 1: It's just like a place celebrities go. And I've never
Speaker 1: been to Il Piccolino. I don't know where it is,
Speaker 1: but he apparently would eat with his hands in such
Speaker 1: a disgusting way that the staff at Il Piccolino nicknamed
Speaker 1: him the Beast, which I just like cannot get over
Speaker 1: being worth billions of dollars and like eating like a
Speaker 1: disgusting monster. But here we are, and a friend said
Speaker 1: that he would be horrible to waiters, like scream at them.
Speaker 1: So again, like you have to think, this is like
Speaker 1: a bad person. You have all the money in the
Speaker 1: world and you just like treat service people terribly. So
Speaker 1: there's all these conflicting accounts around this time about his
Speaker 1: mental fitness. Some people are saying, oh, no, he's out
Speaker 1: and about at restaurants.
Speaker 4: He's got this amazing memory.
Speaker 1: He remembers everything he said from two weeks ago word
Speaker 1: for word, and others are like, that is complete bullshit.
Speaker 1: He can't walk, he can't talk, he eats through tubes.
Speaker 1: And then like apparently for some years before his death
Speaker 1: he had such a hard time talking that he had
Speaker 1: like an iPad that was loaded with snippets of his
Speaker 1: voice from past interviews that he would just use like
Speaker 1: a soundboard, and he had buttons that said like yes, no,
Speaker 1: and fuck you.
Speaker 4: So what would be on.
Speaker 2: Your board that would be your top three? Did Rosie
Speaker 2: have a quesadilla that would be would be on there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, please stop throwing another I mean there'd probably just
Speaker 1: be a bunch of me being an exasperated parent. And
Speaker 1: then also, Liza, have you heard this Okay, so there's
Speaker 1: a lot of drama in the Redstone family about now.
Speaker 1: I'm reading that it's a six point four billion dollar
Speaker 1: fortune that he would eventually leave, so who knows. I
Speaker 1: think maybe it's because I'm reading articles that are from
Speaker 1: like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, and then later when he did.
Speaker 3: He didn't die till twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Much like the character in the episode, Sumner Redstone had
Speaker 1: two children with his first wife, named Sherry and Brent.
Speaker 1: They're both his children by his wife, Phyllis, who he
Speaker 1: was married to for like fifty seven years and or
Speaker 1: fifty four years or something, and then she he just
Speaker 1: cheated on her and became.
Speaker 3: Like a playboy.
Speaker 1: Suddenly he's like dating all these women after he's in
Speaker 1: this fifty plus year relationship with his wife. So he
Speaker 1: had a major step falling out with his son Brent,
Speaker 1: just like in the episode. They did not speak as
Speaker 1: of twenty fifteen, and they hadn't spoken for years, and
Speaker 1: Brent had sued his father and National Amusements in two
Speaker 1: thousand and six essentially for trying to cut him out
Speaker 1: of the family business. That was eventually all settled and
Speaker 1: Brent went to live on a large ran in Colorado.
Speaker 1: I don't think there was like a you raped my
Speaker 1: wife a moment like in the show, but he was
Speaker 1: definitely a strain from his son Brent. And then Sherry
Speaker 1: and Sumner have a very public like up again, down again,
Speaker 1: on again, off again like feud with each other because
Speaker 1: she's very involved in the businesses and she's always been
Speaker 1: vying for control of the company, and a lot of
Speaker 1: people consider her to be the heir apparent to his
Speaker 1: you know fortune, that she was going to succeed him
Speaker 1: in his positions on all these boards. But they feuded
Speaker 1: all the time, and he reconsidered her as his successor.
Speaker 1: So there's all these times where he's cutting her out
Speaker 1: of her will, putting him back, putting her back in
Speaker 1: like all this up and down drama with this family.
Speaker 1: I don't watch the show's Succession, but I bet it's
Speaker 1: kind of based on all of this, but less gnarled bodies, yes,
Speaker 1: with not a naral body thing, but more TV yes,
Speaker 1: a little bit more photogenic. Sherry was vice president of
Speaker 1: both boards, and then for a while she and her
Speaker 1: father were only communicating through faxes, which is very of
Speaker 1: a time.
Speaker 3: So then, according to Vanity Fair.
Speaker 1: Redstone always had a wandering eye, and someone who knew
Speaker 1: him well was quoted in this Vanity Fair article saying
Speaker 1: he does think he's God's gift to women, which is
Speaker 1: hilarious if you see him, especially after I've heard about
Speaker 1: how he eats as well. So allegedly he was with
Speaker 1: a mistress the night of this fire, even in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty seven. I don't know what happened to her. I
Speaker 1: don't know if she survived the fire. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he said, hey, hang out this window with me.
Speaker 1: But he divorced from his first wife in nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: nine after a PI caught him that the wife hired
Speaker 1: caught him canoodling in Paris, and Phyllis got one hundred
Speaker 1: million dollars in the divorce.
Speaker 3: So nice, nice work fifty years with this man and
Speaker 3: you got one hundred mil.
Speaker 1: Then he dated Christine Peters, a Hollywood producer who did
Speaker 1: make the movie How to Lose a Guy in Ten
Speaker 1: Days and.
Speaker 3: My Favorite movies. I've seen it so many times.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring it up because I thought it
Speaker 1: might be a fave of yours. And they him and
Speaker 1: Christine were once engaged, but the engagement was called off
Speaker 1: after she refused to fly with him to Dubai on
Speaker 1: a minute's notice when she was in the middle of
Speaker 1: producing a movie. So I think he wanted a woman
Speaker 1: who was more like at his becking call, and Christine
Speaker 1: was not that gal, so engagement over. Then he had
Speaker 1: a relationship with this woman named Manuela Herser. She's a
Speaker 1: very important person to his story. And she said, oh,
Speaker 1: age didn't matter. They had instant chemistry. He was so
Speaker 1: amazing and treated her well. He took her children in
Speaker 1: as his own and all this stuff. But she did
Speaker 1: never wanted to get married, and she put her kids first,
Speaker 1: which Sumner hated, and so they ended up breaking up romantically.
Speaker 1: But she stayed on for a very long time as
Speaker 1: like an advisor to him and like a companion. People
Speaker 1: called him her her his companion, even though he'd have
Speaker 1: other girlfriends. So his business thought, like all his business people,
Speaker 1: were like, you need to be married, like it's better
Speaker 1: for your image, Like you need to be married. So
Speaker 1: he ended up getting introduced to this school teacher forty
Speaker 1: years younger than him. They got married, were together for
Speaker 1: five years. He kept telling man, well, how much he
Speaker 1: hated the marriage, and then they eventually got divorced and
Speaker 1: she got five million. He wanted to get back with
Speaker 1: Manuela after that, and she's like, not dog, I don't
Speaker 1: want I don't want to ring. And so instead he
Speaker 1: would take her to dinner parties and just ask her
Speaker 1: opinion of other women and be like, who do you
Speaker 1: what do you think? And she was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to do this anymore. She got tired of it.
Speaker 1: She said, quote, this is humiliating and embarrassing, and then
Speaker 1: I thought this was amazing because I'll get In twenty ten,
Speaker 1: Patti Stanger, the host of the Bravo show Millionaire Matchmaker,
Speaker 1: introduced Redstone to her longtime friend Sidney Holland. And I
Speaker 1: used to watch that show. I was like a religious
Speaker 1: Millionaire Matchmaker show. I just love that this woman goes
Speaker 1: I have a ninety nine percent success rate, and not
Speaker 1: one single relationship on her show ever worked out. So
Speaker 1: I was like, I guess that the show is just
Speaker 1: about showing the one percent. But she, I for some reason,
Speaker 1: was into the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just always remember her being like, you have curly
Speaker 2: hair straight in it?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: No, I'm like hair straight in it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she would call little women spinners, like she
Speaker 1: would call like any woman that was tiny and petititch,
Speaker 1: she would call them a spinner, which I thought was
Speaker 1: like gross, And she'd.
Speaker 2: Always be like gross and I know, like those who
Speaker 2: don't do teach, Like I get that, but it's like, yeah, you're.
Speaker 1: Single as fuck, Yeah yeah, yeah completely, But I mean
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that she was in with people of
Speaker 1: such like he is so so rich, this man and
Speaker 1: so powerful and entertainment. So she actually did introduce him
Speaker 1: to her friend and they started dating.
Speaker 2: Like is it cool to want my Like is it
Speaker 2: like we both know one person? And in her mind
Speaker 2: she was like I am gonna end up with someone
Speaker 2: rich and only went out with like finance people tech,
Speaker 2: like that's what she was looking for. So is that
Speaker 2: like cool you know what you want? You don't want
Speaker 2: to work in money? Or are you like a gross person?
Speaker 2: I can't really decide.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It feels a little gross, but I
Speaker 3: don't know, uh.
Speaker 2: Because like you there guy, it's like he's disgusting. He
Speaker 2: doesn't know how to eat, he's mean. He treats people like shit.
Speaker 2: You need to be like a servant to him, Like
Speaker 2: what else is like, these people just want money, right, yeah.
Speaker 1: But they claim, oh my god, we had such a
Speaker 1: he has such a Okay, So so she starts going
Speaker 1: out with Sidney. Holland starts going out with Redstone. I
Speaker 1: think she's in her early forties at this time. And
Speaker 1: he took her to catch in Santa Monica, big seafood restaurant,
Speaker 1: and that Stanger thought that Holland and Redstone would hit
Speaker 1: it off because Holland says, Sumner has an amazing sense
Speaker 1: of humor, a quick wit, and is incredibly intelligent. And she,
Speaker 1: meaning Patty, knows that that's the kind of things that
Speaker 1: I like. This is also a quote from this Vanity
Speaker 1: Fair article. Sidney loves Sumner. She doesn't see his age,
Speaker 1: and in this article she goes, he has great skin
Speaker 1: and hair, and it's like disgusting because first of all,
Speaker 1: he dyes his hair this like trump carrot colored like orange.
Speaker 1: He has his face looks like it's melting, and so
Speaker 1: I don't know about the skin thing. And the guy
Speaker 1: gets a haircut every single day, every single day, a
Speaker 1: man comes to his house and cuts his hair, which
Speaker 1: I think is so weird and excessive, like hair doesn't
Speaker 1: grow in a day, but whatever googled.
Speaker 2: Photos of him and it's like, I don't know if
Speaker 2: he looks better or worse than what I had in
Speaker 2: my head, Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's like you can't be like he
Speaker 1: has great hair, a great skin.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so wild.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to talk badly about someone's appearance,
Speaker 1: I guess. But these women are clearly in it for
Speaker 1: being taken care of and money. So Sumner's daughter, Sherry,
Speaker 1: who we've talked about, does not love that her father
Speaker 1: is into all these younger women and having younger women around.
Speaker 1: And she had a very contentious relationship with both Manuela
Speaker 1: and Sydney, and she had a PI investigate both of them.
Speaker 3: And then as of.
Speaker 1: Like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, he's with Sydney, but Manuela
Speaker 1: is also I think maybe even living at his house
Speaker 1: and is his companion. He wants the two of them
Speaker 1: to plan his funeral. He's got all his funeral arrangements.
Speaker 1: He wants them executed by these two companions. He doesn't
Speaker 1: want Brent or Sherry involved at all, and that these
Speaker 1: women are both going to get seventy five million and
Speaker 1: then everything went tits up. Both of them got taken
Speaker 1: out of the will and Weela was taken away as
Speaker 1: his health signatory. Everything like that, and their inheritances that
Speaker 1: those seventy five million each was sent to was then
Speaker 1: allocated to charities and suddenly Sherries back in his good graces.
Speaker 3: This is how soap opera.
Speaker 4: This is.
Speaker 1: Sometimes he's just communicating with his daughter via fax, and
Speaker 1: then other times he's like kicking his girlfriends out and
Speaker 1: he's like, Scherry, you're back in my life. So he
Speaker 1: ended up splitting with Sydney in twenty fifteen, threw Manuela
Speaker 1: out of his house, and in twenty sixteen, at age
Speaker 1: ninety two, he finally resigned from his company jobs following
Speaker 1: a court ordered examination by a geriatric psychiatrist. So he
Speaker 1: was succeeded by Les Moonvest at CBS, who we know
Speaker 1: had a full me too scandal, and Philipe Domon at Viacom.
Speaker 1: And when I worked at Viacom, we would just get
Speaker 1: emails from Philippe Domon as if he cared or knew
Speaker 1: who any of us, like permal answers were. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a man who makes like sixty million dollars
Speaker 1: a year, just sending me an email like he cares
Speaker 1: about me. And then yeah, both of the women ended
Speaker 1: up setting privately with Redstone's family, and I'm sure they both.
Speaker 3: Got decent paydays.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they got their seventy five million
Speaker 1: that they were promised, but they both got money from
Speaker 1: the family. And now, yeah, now his daughter kind of
Speaker 1: runs things for him and for the National Amusements and
Speaker 1: all that. But this episode's also based, of course, on
Speaker 1: Bill Cosby and Hugh Hefner, which are I'm not going
Speaker 1: to get so so deep into the Cosby case because
Speaker 1: it's a huge case and I believe there are other
Speaker 1: episodes based on it. But essentially what happened was in
Speaker 1: the research that we were that was shared with us
Speaker 1: Hugh Hefner's ex Holly Madison, who was his main girlfriend.
Speaker 1: He would call her the love of his life. She
Speaker 1: was his main girlfriend on The Girl's Next Door, which
Speaker 1: is an e show. Lisa and I have referenced many
Speaker 1: many times. We both were fans, and she wrote a
Speaker 1: tell all book after they split up, and she's been
Speaker 1: married to somebody new for like almost a decade now,
Speaker 1: and she described her first meeting with Hugh Hefner was
Speaker 1: him offering her quailudes and he said, quote, they used
Speaker 1: to call these thigh openers, so that's where that came from.
Speaker 1: In the episode, she had a lot of problems with Hefner.
Speaker 1: She said he was manipulative and emotionally abusive to her
Speaker 1: and the other women in the house, and he would
Speaker 1: pit them against one another and that was kind of
Speaker 1: his whole thing there was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really fucked up, like those were his girlfriends.
Speaker 2: Yet he kept being like, you're too ugly to be
Speaker 2: in the magazine.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were never in the magazine.
Speaker 2: Not until the show, and then when the show was
Speaker 2: such a hit, I bought it.
Speaker 3: It was like the three of them.
Speaker 2: On the cover together, I remember, and then they each
Speaker 2: had their own like, you know, Kendra had a sporty one,
Speaker 2: like they each had their own little spreads too.
Speaker 3: But all together. And you know, Bridget had.
Speaker 2: To go to school so she missed the shower shoot
Speaker 2: and she didn't think.
Speaker 3: It was fair.
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember all of this, but he was
Speaker 2: like I remember them being like yeah, he just said
Speaker 2: I'm not good enough to be in the magazine, and
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, I can that's what he's doing on camera.
Speaker 2: I can see the manipulation and like, yeah, that he's
Speaker 2: tearing these women down or whatnot. Yeah, completely, And they
Speaker 2: had like curfews, yeah, because I remember they had a
Speaker 2: friend in Vegas and they flew for her party and
Speaker 2: they had to fly back that night because they were
Speaker 2: not allowed to spend the night in Vegas.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I definitely got like the vibe of, you know,
Speaker 1: Sue Anne. The character seems like she's a little bit
Speaker 1: based on Sydney Samona Rebinstone's girlfriend who's like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I love him, he's great, But then also a little
Speaker 1: bit off of like Hughefner's girlfriends that were probably like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I maybe I had to take some quayloads here and there,
Speaker 1: you know, like to just do what you have to
Speaker 1: do to like be with a billionaire or whatever. So
Speaker 1: there was also a claim of a rape at the
Speaker 1: Playboy mansion in two thousand and seven from a twenty
Speaker 1: two year old old woman who said she was assaulted
Speaker 1: by a seventeen year old male, which kind of matches
Speaker 1: up a little bit with what we think happens at
Speaker 1: the beginning of this episode. Hefner said, this girl just
Speaker 1: went out partying and came home to an angry boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and that's why she's making up this whole thing.
Speaker 4: And I think that maybe this woman was.
Speaker 1: Like, Okay, if there's not like enough evidence and he's
Speaker 1: going to be publicly maligning me, I'm just like not
Speaker 1: going to pursue this anymore. And so she days after
Speaker 1: the allegation came out, she said that she didn't want
Speaker 1: to pursue the complaint, and investigators said that they could
Speaker 1: not corroborate her charges. I don't know how you corroborate,
Speaker 1: you know, like something happening in a room of a
Speaker 1: mansion where not anyone else was there, but yeah. And
Speaker 1: then in two thousand and eight, a former model named
Speaker 1: Chloe Goins Goins go On Goins accused Bill Cosby of
Speaker 1: raping her at the Playboy mansion at a party, and
Speaker 1: she says she then later alleged that Hugh Hefner knew
Speaker 1: about it and did nothing to stop it. She claimed
Speaker 1: that Cosby spiked her drink during the party and then
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her in one of the bedrooms. She does
Speaker 1: not remember exactly what happened or the exact date it happened,
Speaker 1: but claimed she woke up with Cosby licking her toes
Speaker 1: and zipping up his pants.
Speaker 3: Ugh Cosby was also.
Speaker 1: As we all know, we all know, he was known
Speaker 1: to use queludes to incapacitate his victims and basically give
Speaker 1: them an amnesia.
Speaker 4: The La County.
Speaker 1: DA's office reviewed Chloe Goins's case, but decided not to
Speaker 1: file criminal charges against Cosby because of a uncorroborated facts
Speaker 1: and b the statute of limitations. So she filed a
Speaker 1: civil case and in twenty nineteen, Cosby's insurance company did
Speaker 1: settle with her, and Coseby was like pissed and was
Speaker 1: like that was not authorized. Like he's mad that his
Speaker 1: insurance company settled with this woman in a civil suit,
Speaker 1: because you know, he thinks he's done nothing wrong. Another victim,
Speaker 1: former playmate Victoria Valentino, told The Washington Post in November
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, that Cosby drugged her and raped her in
Speaker 1: the wake of her six year old son's tragic death.
Speaker 1: Like ugh, Like there's no bottom for these men. And
Speaker 1: then another woman named Judy huff Huth came forward with
Speaker 1: a lawsuit against Cosby in twenty fourteen, claiming he molested
Speaker 1: her in the Playboy Mansion in nineteen seventy four when
Speaker 1: she was just fifteen years old, and her civil case
Speaker 1: was I think put on hold while Cosby was in jail,
Speaker 1: and now that he is out of jail, as we
Speaker 1: all know, there is a hearing in April of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two for Judy's case. For her, I think I
Speaker 1: believe it's a civil case. So I mean, I just
Speaker 1: don't believe. I believe with her smoke there's fire, and
Speaker 1: like there's definitely gossip like if people if he has
Speaker 1: if three women have accused him of raping them at
Speaker 1: the Playboy Mansion, Hugh Hefner had to get wind of
Speaker 1: some of that, Like there has to be, you know,
Speaker 1: whispers of that.
Speaker 2: People knew on set the like female guest stars weren't
Speaker 2: allowed to go into Bill's like dressing room, and everyone
Speaker 2: was on alert to make sure no one was like
Speaker 2: near him alone, and so everyone knew, And I think
Speaker 2: I think that's why Lisa Bounet was like kicked off
Speaker 2: the show and kind of punished because she was like
Speaker 2: this is fucked up, Like.
Speaker 1: Oh, people knew, people knew, Well, it's so true, like
Speaker 1: we've always heard all these people knew, but Hefner's official
Speaker 1: statement to the Hollywood Reporter was, quote, Bill Cosby has
Speaker 1: been a good friend for many years, and the mere
Speaker 1: thought of these allegations is truly saddening. I would never
Speaker 1: tolerate this kind of behavior, regardless of who was involved.
Speaker 1: So he's not saying Cosby's innocent, He's just saying that's
Speaker 1: my homie, and if he did this, I'm sad, but
Speaker 1: I definitely didn't know. And as we know of like
Speaker 1: of course, in the past recent years, fifteen or more
Speaker 1: women have come forward to claim that Cosby drugged and
Speaker 1: or assaulted. I'm not always at the Playboy mansion, but
Speaker 1: I think it's the Hefner Cosby.
Speaker 3: Of it all that is what the show used.
Speaker 1: And then, yes, as we all know, Cosby was sentenced
Speaker 1: to prison in twenty eighteen, but was released in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one on some kind of technicality and is now
Speaker 1: free but not exonerated and does continue.
Speaker 3: To deal with litigation, I think from a lot of his.
Speaker 1: Accuser So that's where a lot of the inspo for
Speaker 1: the episode came from. But I'm sure that we'll do
Speaker 1: a deeper dive into Cosby in the future because it
Speaker 1: is a very you know, huge case and other episodes
Speaker 1: I believe of the show have been based on it.
Speaker 1: Thanks for all this info, fucking monsters and very pop
Speaker 1: culture heavy. I would say, yes, yes, Pokemon, go to
Speaker 1: the polls. I mean, they're talking about all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: But we have a very cool guest. We're so excited
Speaker 1: to talk to our guests and they're going to give
Speaker 1: us so much ta I'm excited.
Speaker 3: Stay right where.
Speaker 4: You are, all right.
Speaker 1: Today we have a very special guest, someone who is
Speaker 1: responsible for many of the words you have heard come
Speaker 1: out of Olivia Benson's mouth. And he is also the
Speaker 1: host of a podcast called Two by Guys.
Speaker 3: He's one of them, and we.
Speaker 1: Were just so so excited to talk to him because
Speaker 1: he wrote today's episode. So just behold our conversation with
Speaker 1: Robert Brooks Cohen. So you just told us that you
Speaker 1: have been listening to the podcast recently, And do you
Speaker 1: just sit there and go, No, that's not what we
Speaker 1: were talking about.
Speaker 4: That's not what we meant.
Speaker 3: Like, do you just like yell at us when you're listening?
Speaker 4: Well, most of the time I fully agree with you,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, yes, yes, yes, But then there are
Speaker 4: a couple of times where I'm like, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: that's not what happened. And then a couple times, like
Speaker 4: later in the episode, You've you look it up and
Speaker 4: you've corrected yourself, and I'm like, oh good, they listened
Speaker 4: to me through through space and time. They heard what
Speaker 4: I was saying.
Speaker 3: We clean up after ourselves. Do I remember this? Do
Speaker 3: you remember those moments?
Speaker 4: I remember you were talking about the gamer Gate episode
Speaker 4: and you were talking about Adam Baldwin, I think, who
Speaker 4: was like involved with the real story. But and I
Speaker 4: and I was like, this isn't a mistake you made.
Speaker 4: I was just like, and he was on SVU did
Speaker 4: you know that? And I was yelling. I was yelling
Speaker 4: like he was on s for you. And then like
Speaker 4: later an hour later in the episode, you you figured
Speaker 4: it out and you you commented on it. Actually, that's
Speaker 4: one of the few times I was in Law and
Speaker 4: Order as an extra at the last minute, and I
Speaker 4: handed Adam Baldwin a folder. So if you go back
Speaker 4: and watch the episode, I it was a very important folder.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: I hope you got your SAG card from that. Well.
Speaker 3: I loved also an Intimidation game.
Speaker 2: I loved Ice, Like learning about Iced Tea and how
Speaker 2: much she loves video games was really cute and I
Speaker 2: enjoyed that little because we know he loves them on
Speaker 2: the outside.
Speaker 4: Right, and that you know, we all knew that at
Speaker 4: the show, and that was a directive we were given,
Speaker 4: was give give us some video games stuff in this episode.
Speaker 4: And actually that episode was on USA last night, right
Speaker 4: before we're recording this, which so I obviously stayed up
Speaker 4: to watch it. And gosh, some of those video game
Speaker 4: references are a little a little much in hindsight where
Speaker 4: they're like game over, like what were you camping back there?
Speaker 4: It's like, I don't know that. I don't know if
Speaker 4: cops really talked that way, but it was. It was
Speaker 4: a fun episode. And also I will say that was
Speaker 4: one of the first of episodes of your podcast that
Speaker 4: I listened to, was the one about that, because we
Speaker 4: got a lot of shit for that episode. I'll say
Speaker 4: you are my co writer and like a lot of
Speaker 4: gamers trolled us on social media afterwards and really like, yeah,
Speaker 4: harassed us.
Speaker 2: Like IMDb rating of that episode is like shot to
Speaker 2: hell because of the gamers.
Speaker 4: It's the it's the lowest of any s FORU episode
Speaker 4: in history, which I'm kind of proud of that they
Speaker 4: cared so much that they did that. But like, you
Speaker 4: guys got what we were trying to do. And I
Speaker 4: listened to that episode and I was like, yes, yes,
Speaker 4: all of the research we did, all of the things
Speaker 4: we tried to put in there to just sort of
Speaker 4: show people, Hey, this thing that you don't that you're
Speaker 4: not paying attention to gamer Gate is actually pretty serious
Speaker 4: and bad and like unfair, and what if these things
Speaker 4: they're threatening really happened? What would that look like? Because
Speaker 4: that's what the victims of this harassment are thinking about
Speaker 4: at night. They're being threatened with this and it's not okay,
Speaker 4: And like, that's what we tried to do, and you
Speaker 4: guys really got that. So once I listened to that,
Speaker 4: I like binged a whole bunch of episodes of your
Speaker 4: podcast and got hooked. But that was only like a
Speaker 4: month ago. I had no idea this existed.
Speaker 1: I know, people keep saying they're finding on us, Son,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know how else to tell you
Speaker 1: that we're out here.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, now, did you know that that you
Speaker 2: would tweet at us? That it would become the best
Speaker 2: thing that's happened to us. We were like so excited
Speaker 2: about that tweet. We were so pumped because you know,
Speaker 2: we are doing all this research all the time, and
Speaker 2: it was just nice to get that validation from someone
Speaker 2: on the inside being like, no, you're you're doing you know,
Speaker 2: you're on the right track of research.
Speaker 4: I'm glad I could help you out with that. I
Speaker 4: did not realize it, but you're you guys are doing
Speaker 4: such great work. And also the the Porn Stars Requiem
Speaker 4: episode that I co wrote, I really thought you guys
Speaker 4: did such a good job breaking that one down and
Speaker 4: all the research that went into it. That was another
Speaker 4: research heavy episode, and like I was proud of that one.
Speaker 3: Thanks.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So can we go back a little bit, so, like
Speaker 3: how did it all start?
Speaker 1: How did you get onto Like you started as a researcher, writer,
Speaker 1: writer's assistant, and like what was your journey?
Speaker 4: So I went to grad school NYU for dramatic writing.
Speaker 4: I focused on TV writing. I had a couple odd
Speaker 4: jobs for a few years out of grad school, Like
Speaker 4: I wrote voiceover for the History Channel, I like ghost
Speaker 4: wrote a how to book, some other random stuff, and
Speaker 4: then like, I through a grad school friend who was
Speaker 4: leaving his job as Warren Light's assistant. He recommended me
Speaker 4: to be Warren's assistant. But it was right at the moment,
Speaker 4: the exact moment that SVU was transferring to Warren as
Speaker 4: the new showrunner, so beginning of season thirteen, so it
Speaker 4: kind of worked out. He was hiring a couple writers,
Speaker 4: assistant researchers, script coordinators for the show and asked if
Speaker 4: I would like to do that. I was like absolutely,
Speaker 4: So for the first three seasons I was writer's assistant
Speaker 4: slash researcher, just because on that show it's a heavily
Speaker 4: research role.
Speaker 1: Yeah, had you been and you were a fan of
Speaker 1: the show, I'm like, going in, I was a big fan.
Speaker 4: It was always my favorite of the Law and Orders.
Speaker 4: I loved the Benson Stabler dynamic, and so like, like
Speaker 4: literally two weeks into getting there, they were like, Stabler's
Speaker 4: not coming back. Maloney didn't sign his contract. So I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, we all it was a big moment obviously,
Speaker 4: and we figured out some great things to do and
Speaker 4: but but yeah, like I was my favorite show growing
Speaker 4: up was The West Wing and on Wednesday nights it
Speaker 4: was West Wing at nine, as for You at ten,
Speaker 4: and so I would watch S for You by default,
Speaker 4: and over time just grew to love it. It was
Speaker 4: on at like the right time for me in like
Speaker 4: high school, basically amazing. I was a big fan.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 4: I was very intimidated to meet the cast when I
Speaker 4: first met.
Speaker 1: Them, and then so you just like stayed on for
Speaker 1: like a few seasons as a writer's assistant and a researcher,
Speaker 1: and then like eventually they were like, hey, want to
Speaker 1: try your hand at a script or like how you
Speaker 1: know they just like moved you up or how did
Speaker 1: it work?
Speaker 4: Pretty much they I got to write my first episode
Speaker 4: during my second season as an assistant, and then I
Speaker 4: wrote another one my third season as an assistant. So
Speaker 4: those were kind of like the trial periods. And then
Speaker 4: my fourth season through seventh season, I was bumped up
Speaker 4: to staff writer and like, yeah, it just kind of
Speaker 4: happened naturally. Actually, like my second season as an assistant,
Speaker 4: I found this weird case law that inspired an episode.
Speaker 4: Like I wasn't always pitching episodes, but I'd found this
Speaker 4: story that ended up becoming an episode, but the head
Speaker 4: writer and another writer kind of wrote that and then
Speaker 4: I think the head writer, Warren kind of felt bad that,
Speaker 4: like I had found that, but I didn't get to
Speaker 4: write it. So he was like, why don't you help
Speaker 4: us write this campus, you know, sexual assault episode which
Speaker 4: was girl Dishonored. So I wrote that along with the
Speaker 4: head writers my first season, and I was kind of
Speaker 4: like a trial run. My first draft was like one
Speaker 4: hundred pages. It was terrible.
Speaker 2: Sorry, you mentioned the name of the episode, so now
Speaker 2: I have to ask how annoying or do you guys
Speaker 2: love having to come up with the name title with
Speaker 2: the amount of letters of the season because it drives
Speaker 2: us insane? But how did you feel doing that?
Speaker 4: I was gonna ask if you guys knew had figured
Speaker 4: that out. I haven't heard all your episodes. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: It came up in like the first week of the
Speaker 4: writer's room, like some writer kind of threw that out
Speaker 4: there as I think, half jokingly, like could we do
Speaker 4: this and could we do all? Like it's s for
Speaker 4: you two point zero So instead of one word titles,
Speaker 4: which it had been, we'll do two words and we'll
Speaker 4: make them all thirteen letters. And then it was kind
Speaker 4: of like a fun game at first, like can we
Speaker 4: do this, and we learned like we could for the
Speaker 4: first batch of episodes we had, so we would and
Speaker 4: it was like fun at first, and then by season
Speaker 4: like seventeen eighteen, I was like, no, this is so
Speaker 4: much good, very annoying, and like, occasionally it leads to
Speaker 4: an interesting title that you wouldn't have come up with,
Speaker 4: but a lot of the times it led to some
Speaker 4: weird titles that are kind of unfortunate. But I don't know.
Speaker 4: Then again, looking back, I'm like, season eighteen nineteen, we
Speaker 4: didn't do that. We Warren was not there anymore. He was, yeah,
Speaker 4: the one who had kind of implemented that, So season
Speaker 4: eighteen nineteen we didn't do that. And I'm like, I
Speaker 4: don't know. The titles are a little less creative. There's
Speaker 4: something about a specific formula that doesn't fully make sense
Speaker 4: but forces you to think in a different way. So
Speaker 4: I don't know. It was kind of fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a wordle it's a little bit I
Speaker 3: wor situation.
Speaker 2: We talked to Samantha Corbyn and she was telling us, so,
Speaker 2: it's not a traditional writer's room, right, You guys kind
Speaker 2: of go out on your own. And so when you
Speaker 2: were researching did they say, like go find this for
Speaker 2: us and you'd bring it back or did you bring
Speaker 2: them the info? How did it work without being in
Speaker 2: a room altogether?
Speaker 4: Uh, it's a little of both. And like the assistants
Speaker 4: were always in the room every day, so for us,
Speaker 4: it kind of was more of a traditional room and
Speaker 4: we were around there, and then the more I was around,
Speaker 4: like the more or I was promoted, the less I
Speaker 4: would come in every day. But yeah, we like I
Speaker 4: would bring in stories all the time, and as the researcher,
Speaker 4: I would send out stories to inspire the other writers
Speaker 4: to find interesting stuff. And uh, so like it was,
Speaker 4: it was a mix of both, Like I think for me,
Speaker 4: I would mostly find stuff and pitch it. But then occasionally,
Speaker 4: like there were just big stories that everyone was talking
Speaker 4: about that we knew we had to do, and so
Speaker 4: we the room would convene, you know, once every couple
Speaker 4: weeks when when people were around, we would say come
Speaker 4: in and like sometimes those big episodes would just get
Speaker 4: divided up like this is good for you, guys, this
Speaker 4: is good for you. And it was like we were
Speaker 4: rarely all in the room at once, like I guess
Speaker 4: a traditional writer's room. Although I've never been in one
Speaker 4: of those either, so this is this is my standard.
Speaker 4: But like we would be in a room sometimes to
Speaker 4: plan out a season, but then and it's mostly like okay,
Speaker 4: you too, go work on this one, YouTube, go work
Speaker 4: on that one. And then it's like two or three
Speaker 4: months you're working on your episode and then you start
Speaker 4: over again.
Speaker 2: And do you know what judges and defense attorneys are
Speaker 2: going to be their guest stars? When you write or
Speaker 2: you just write general and then it's like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: Viola Davis. I mean she was old school, but like
Speaker 2: how do you kind of and then do you tweak
Speaker 2: it for the specific characters or how.
Speaker 4: You you you kind of discuss all that, like in
Speaker 4: the early stages of the episode, like you come up
Speaker 4: with the story first the crime, like what's it based on?
Speaker 4: How are we gonna involve the main cast? But then
Speaker 4: like as you're outlining, probably before you write, you might
Speaker 4: say who would be a good defense lawyer for this?
Speaker 4: Like maybe the judge is another step down the road
Speaker 4: unless it's really vital that a specific judge is part
Speaker 4: of it. And yeah that like you you have your
Speaker 4: wish list, you go, you know, this is a great
Speaker 4: Delaney Williams episode. But then but then halfway through prep
Speaker 4: like he may not be available or whatever. So so
Speaker 4: there is a lot of rewriting of those kinds of
Speaker 4: things in the last week before you shoot, based on
Speaker 4: like who's available.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool. Wow, it's like a lot of moving pieces.
Speaker 1: It sounds like yes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and sometimes it leads to some great new
Speaker 4: people like I don't remember, like Raphael Sabar. What episode
Speaker 4: did you talk about? This episode you talked about Decline
Speaker 4: and Fall? Yeah, yeah, so that was like I think
Speaker 4: Raphael Sabarge Is that how I forget how you say his.
Speaker 1: Namee Oh oh wait, it's it's it's the guy you
Speaker 1: were talking about, Lisa, that you've seen in a ton
Speaker 1: of stuff, the guy who plays.
Speaker 3: You're a lawyer.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, well, uh we looked about he was
Speaker 2: from Dexters, where like I was like, I know that man, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like he was someone who I didn't I mean,
Speaker 4: I knew him as an actor, but I don't think
Speaker 4: he had been on on SVU before, and I don't remember,
Speaker 4: like you know, we were just creating a new character essentially,
Speaker 4: and he was so great, Like I loved him in
Speaker 4: that episode, and he was also such a lovely man,
Speaker 4: so like sometimes you know, you you you get a
Speaker 4: nice surprise by not having a plan for those kind
Speaker 4: of parties.
Speaker 2: Right, And was Decline and Fall one of those big
Speaker 2: stories that you guys knew you were gonna like you
Speaker 2: all came together.
Speaker 3: I think we got to do it.
Speaker 4: It was a big story that like everyone knew about
Speaker 4: this h Sumner Redstone like Viacom story, and it was
Speaker 4: like not fully a sex crime story. So that was
Speaker 4: I mean, it sort of was because he it's very weird,
Speaker 4: creepy guy, but like it wasn't like he was accused
Speaker 4: of something at that moment.
Speaker 1: It was it was kind of like a what if
Speaker 1: Sumner Redstone was accused of a crime like Bill Cosby
Speaker 1: committed kind of you know.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah exactly. So I think it was you know,
Speaker 4: when we pitched it was like, oh that that works,
Speaker 4: Like people got it quickly, but it wasn't like one
Speaker 4: we knew we had to do. So I think me
Speaker 4: and the writer I wrote that with pitched it. But
Speaker 4: it was a pretty easy like easy yes, you have
Speaker 4: more than enough to work with, Go go write it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a good twist. Okay, that was exciting. Did
Speaker 2: you guys high five when you broke that twist or what?
Speaker 4: Oh the twist?
Speaker 3: Oh it was he raised it was the daughter in law?
Speaker 4: Oh right, yeah yeah, yeah, oh that was that is interesting.
Speaker 4: I love that twist. Yeah, I almost forgot because.
Speaker 2: That even though I know, like that one, you see
Speaker 2: it once or twice and then it's still surprising, like
Speaker 2: you're like, wait, oh whoa, yeah, so that was like
Speaker 2: a nice twist you guys came up with.
Speaker 4: I forget, I forget how we came up with it,
Speaker 4: but honestly, like it's a twist that is surprising but
Speaker 4: kind of makes sense, and it's it's not something we
Speaker 4: haven't done before, like I was just before we recorded
Speaker 4: listening to your interview last week or with Samantha mathis
Speaker 4: about the Woody Allen episode, which I also co wrote,
Speaker 4: and uh and she, by the way, she's incredible. I
Speaker 4: just loved working with her. And that's another one where.
Speaker 2: Like, well, I'm not a west wing person, right, isn't Bradley?
Speaker 4: And then I guess I should also say anyone from
Speaker 4: Arrested Development. I was obsessed with too Ya Tambour. But also,
Speaker 4: you know, you have an actress like Celia Keenan Bolger.
Speaker 4: You know, she's not just going to be the sister
Speaker 4: that's in one scene. She's incredible and that was the
Speaker 4: twist where she had been abused by this So it's
Speaker 4: actually the same, the same twist that we reused, but
Speaker 4: it is a good one and it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean SPU reuses a twist and I'm
Speaker 1: still totally like, what, Like, you know it's his sister.
Speaker 3: I mean, were you there? Why do I always forget
Speaker 3: his name?
Speaker 4: Buster?
Speaker 3: What's his real name?
Speaker 4: Oh? Tony Hale?
Speaker 3: Were you there for Tony's episode?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, I didn't. I didn't write one, so I
Speaker 4: didn't get to like chat with him too much, but
Speaker 4: I like did walk down a hallway with him and
Speaker 4: I said hi, and I was.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, so great.
Speaker 1: How much do you like chat with the actors? Like
Speaker 1: when you write an episode, do you like say like,
Speaker 1: here's what we're thinking here, or like let them interpret
Speaker 1: it themselves, or like what's the.
Speaker 4: If I'm on set and it's my episode, As long
Speaker 4: as they want to, you end up chatting with them
Speaker 4: a lot, Like if they want to ask questions about
Speaker 4: the script, I'm all about that, and I will to answer.
Speaker 4: And you know, you're sitting around when you're on set
Speaker 4: a lot, they're they're turning the cameras around, there's breaks
Speaker 4: and so you if the actor doesn't run to their
Speaker 4: dressing room, then you're sitting with them for a while.
Speaker 4: So uh so, yeah, there there's quite a bit of that.
Speaker 4: I love. I love doing that with that.
Speaker 1: Any any faves besides your West Wing people specifically that
Speaker 1: you can remember.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean there's there's all the West Wing people.
Speaker 4: There was She wasn't in my episode, but Donna from
Speaker 4: the West Wing. Janelle Maloney was in an episode. There's
Speaker 4: a lot of West Wing alums who I was like
Speaker 4: obsessed with. But you know, this is like a easy answer,
Speaker 4: but it is. The true answer. Is like I was
Speaker 4: a huge fan of raoul A Sparza before I got
Speaker 4: to the show, and then we cast him like pretty
Speaker 4: quickly into the time I was there, and I was
Speaker 4: so excited and very starstruck and he's just so down
Speaker 4: to earth and I didn't talk to him too much.
Speaker 4: He I think he came in season fourteen, not season thirteen, right,
Speaker 4: so there was a year he wasn't there, and then
Speaker 4: season fourteen. I didn't talk directly with him much the
Speaker 4: first half of the season because I'm an assistant, you know,
Speaker 4: I want to be in the background and do the
Speaker 4: job right and not get in the way. But then
Speaker 4: I wrote that one Girl Dishonored, and so then I'm
Speaker 4: sitting on set and he had questions for me, and
Speaker 4: that was really the first time we got to talking,
Speaker 4: and it was like, you know, as equals, even though
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, it's a
Speaker 4: parsa asking me real questions, but like I had written it,
Speaker 4: so I had thought about this stuff and done research
Speaker 4: and answered questions and we chatted about what, you know,
Speaker 4: what these courtroom scenes were about, and like, I just remember,
Speaker 4: I remember that day so vividly. I can picture where
Speaker 4: we were sitting and just being getting that experience with
Speaker 4: Raoul and then like from that point on, we were
Speaker 4: we were very close and he's one of my favorite
Speaker 4: people in the whole world.
Speaker 3: Oh amazing. I love that. So that's a that's a
Speaker 3: do meet your heroes story.
Speaker 4: I like that well, And should I jump Can I
Speaker 4: jump in and meet your heroes about Marishka? Because if
Speaker 4: I'm gushing about Raoul, I should just briefly say like
Speaker 4: she I was a fan of the show. She is
Speaker 4: everything that people say about her and then some she's
Speaker 4: just the she's like a genius actress, Like I think
Speaker 4: she can do anything. But she's also just the kindest,
Speaker 4: warmest person. She like took me under her wing, like
Speaker 4: once we got to know each other, just like so
Speaker 4: supportive of me. And I could go on and on
Speaker 4: for the entire episode, but she's just like she is
Speaker 4: the number one on the call sheet of that Yeah,
Speaker 4: she and and she's the best. Like I don't know
Speaker 4: how it could be much better than that, Like she
Speaker 4: sets the tone. The tone on that set is so
Speaker 4: great because of her. And she fixes she knows how
Speaker 4: to fix problems on the set. She knows how to
Speaker 4: talk to actors, whether she's directing or not, Like she
Speaker 4: knows who to go to to get what done what
Speaker 4: needs to be done. And she's just like the kindest,
Speaker 4: nicest person.
Speaker 2: Pretty magical. I met Baby Coco Chanel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she was around the set a bit when I
Speaker 4: was there. She was pretty young, Like I haven't you know,
Speaker 4: spoken with her. Yeah, I think she's only like six now.
Speaker 1: But I have a question, like regarding decline and fall,
Speaker 1: because you know you did so kindly share your research
Speaker 1: with me. And I loved that because I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: these are probably articles I would have found, but you
Speaker 1: just like did the work for me, and and like,
Speaker 1: so I'm curious about how the show is so based
Speaker 1: on real stuff. Sometimes you see that card at the
Speaker 1: beginning that says, this does not.
Speaker 3: Depict any real people.
Speaker 1: A couple times we've seen episodes that say, even like,
Speaker 1: while this episode is based on a real event or person,
Speaker 1: we have changed it.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: How much of a real story is there, like a
Speaker 1: certain amount, Like you know, how the WGA. It's like
Speaker 1: if you write a certain amount of lines, you get
Speaker 1: the credit for being the writer. Like how much of
Speaker 1: it has to be old from real life? Where you
Speaker 1: guys have to do that card at the beginning, like
Speaker 1: the disclaimer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I also saw an episode recently where the
Speaker 4: card was at the end. It was like an early
Speaker 4: season episode, and it was like the preceding story was fictional,
Speaker 4: Like why did it go at the end instead of that?
Speaker 3: It's like, we know what you're thinking. Stop stop that.
Speaker 4: I have absolutely no insight into the title card of
Speaker 4: it all like I don't know why they're sometimes there
Speaker 4: sometimes not. No clue must be a legal thing and
Speaker 4: possibly related to like different legal people each season to
Speaker 4: question I can connect to. But I will say you
Speaker 4: we did have to like change Sometimes we would send
Speaker 4: a script over and the legal department would say, this
Speaker 4: is a little too close to the story. You have
Speaker 4: to change something, And it would always be a change
Speaker 4: that like any person with a brain can see through
Speaker 4: and knows that's why we're changing that thing. But like
Speaker 4: we still just had to do it just so we
Speaker 4: don't get there.
Speaker 1: It's like the Woody Allen episode is such the Woody
Speaker 1: Allen I mean like there's no way.
Speaker 3: You know, like there's so many episodes.
Speaker 2: That at the end there's that Polanski twist where he
Speaker 2: leaves town.
Speaker 4: Right. Well, actually some sometimes by combining two stories, that's
Speaker 4: how we got away with it being different. Yeah, the
Speaker 4: Woody Allen is like, no, he's a TV director, not
Speaker 4: a Yeah, yeah, very different.
Speaker 3: He's not Jewish in this one, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, Wendy, so is combining stories just for legal
Speaker 2: or something like American tragedy. I think you were undering
Speaker 2: that where it was like Paula Dene and Trevon Martin, Like,
Speaker 2: how how do you decide what goes together and what doesn't.
Speaker 4: Most of the time we made those decisions not for
Speaker 4: legal reasons, but just for creative choices, like like this
Speaker 4: would be a cool mashup, or like thematically it makes sense,
Speaker 4: or it heightens the drama of both of these stories
Speaker 4: to kind of put them together. I can't I don't
Speaker 4: know if that exactly applies to the Pologan Trayvon Martin episode. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I'd have to rewatch it to see if that was
Speaker 4: the right choice. But but yeah, like you know, we
Speaker 4: we liked to do that, and just like you know,
Speaker 4: create as much conflict as you can. I think it
Speaker 4: helps out with the legal stuff a little so that
Speaker 4: it's very clearly not the exact same storyline. Sure, but
Speaker 4: I don't think we did those like for that reason.
Speaker 4: It was more like, what if we combine these, that's
Speaker 4: a cool episode.
Speaker 1: And like so sometimes when we're doing these, we always
Speaker 1: like look at, you know, when the story happened versus
Speaker 1: when the episode happened, and sometimes it's like four months.
Speaker 1: Like sometimes it's so quick, like a story hits the
Speaker 1: news and then it's on it's airing on television like
Speaker 1: four months later. Would you ever remember a time where
Speaker 1: they were like, oh, snap, like hurry sham maney Ramsey
Speaker 1: just happened like get like write it up, like.
Speaker 3: Was you know, was there ever like that kind of thing?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Oh, that happens all the time. And it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: you've been working on your episode for months, you're getting
Speaker 4: pushed back a month because we have to do this
Speaker 4: one faster. That. That may have been one of them,
Speaker 4: the Pouladine thing. Oh I remember, like you just mentioned
Speaker 4: it on episode the escape from Dana Mora thing. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: I think we did. I think we did one about
Speaker 4: that that was sure to get quick. It wasn't it
Speaker 4: a Chicago crossover episode.
Speaker 3: Or something, and it was it was.
Speaker 4: I feel like that was a pretty quick one because
Speaker 4: that was like a huge story that everyone was captivated
Speaker 4: by and spawned its own entire series. Yeah, not only that.
Speaker 2: You know, what everyone always requests from us is the
Speaker 2: fucking William Lewis episodes, And to us, it's like, well,
Speaker 2: we're scared and we don't want to watch that, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that is a crew making that seeing like you know,
Speaker 2: Olivia Benson in that situation, like those episodes are fucked up,
Speaker 2: and you know, he's burning his fingertips that like they
Speaker 2: all our listeners.
Speaker 4: Want it, and we're like, we're not ready.
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll do it eventually, we just need to
Speaker 3: like work.
Speaker 4: Our way up series finale. Yeah, And it's not really
Speaker 4: based on like a specific real story either. It's based
Speaker 4: on like what is the worst possible thing that could
Speaker 4: happen to Olivia Benson? Basically that was intense, Like I
Speaker 4: didn't write that, but I was on set for a
Speaker 4: lot of the kidnapped in the House episode, Like I
Speaker 4: was out and we were out in Long Island on
Speaker 4: this really pretty house and really pretty property by the beach,
Speaker 4: and like it was kind of a nice day except
Speaker 4: that we're recording this stuff and it it was really intense.
Speaker 4: Like Marishka when I say she can do anything, like
Speaker 4: that was an example. She got really into it and
Speaker 4: did a lot of work, you know, to prepare for that,
Speaker 4: and that those days on set were not like the
Speaker 4: you know, fun, easy, light hearted days like you know,
Speaker 4: because tone gets set from the top and she was
Speaker 4: in it like she was during that episode, and so
Speaker 4: everyone you know, it was almost like everyone was very
Speaker 4: sensitive to that those days on the set, and it
Speaker 4: was a little bit of like, you know, for good reason,
Speaker 4: walking on eggshells, Like we want to be sensitive to
Speaker 4: what we're shooting and get this right and like you know,
Speaker 4: really portray it, but also make sure everyone on the
Speaker 4: cast and crew is okay. And so we had a
Speaker 4: lot of like safety talks those days, and just like
Speaker 4: everyone was in was in that mindset and it was tough,
Speaker 4: probably for Marishka the most, but you know, you watch
Speaker 4: it and it's pretty pretty fucking real. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then for you, do you have any episodes that
Speaker 1: like stick in your mind from like either researching or
Speaker 1: writing where you were like, wow, like this case is
Speaker 1: like fucking with my mind like this, like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like some like an episode that haunted
Speaker 1: you or a real life case that kind of stuck
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot, Like you're.
Speaker 3: Like I haven't slept in ten years.
Speaker 4: I mean, I like I will say like the for
Speaker 4: you guys too, even talking about these episodes often, like
Speaker 4: it does take a toll on you.
Speaker 2: And now our schedule is based on that, so we
Speaker 2: can get like a week or two breaks in between
Speaker 2: research because there are some that are just like I
Speaker 2: can't do this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's it is difficult, and it's like you
Speaker 4: don't realize it sometimes how much it's affecting you until
Speaker 4: you stop looking at it for a while. And like
Speaker 4: when I was at Us for You, all my friends
Speaker 4: and family used to send me any story they saw
Speaker 4: that could be for show. They would email it to
Speaker 4: me and used to be like, okay, cool, like you're
Speaker 4: helping me with my work. And then when I left
Speaker 4: the show, they would still do that and I immediately
Speaker 4: I was like, please stop sending me this stuff. I
Speaker 4: don't want to read anything. I don't have to. I'm
Speaker 4: taking a break from this, And like it really did
Speaker 4: clear my mind in a way. I mean, I know
Speaker 4: what's important work we're doing to expose this stuff and
Speaker 4: talk about it and change rape culture, but like you
Speaker 4: are really thinking about these real horrible things that happened
Speaker 4: to people, and it's difficult. Yeah, so it Yeah, it
Speaker 4: takes a toll. But I feel like the one that
Speaker 4: haunted me the most was like we did child porn stuff.
Speaker 4: We had to do a research of child porn and
Speaker 4: like learn about it, and that stuff was I took
Speaker 4: it Home with Me. And there was one episode I
Speaker 4: think it was another Chicago crossover maybe where like they
Speaker 4: found a dungeon with child porn on the wall, you know,
Speaker 4: child porn photos everywhere, and like obviously we're not using
Speaker 4: real child porn, but for the shot, you have to
Speaker 4: make it look like it's something you can't show nothing.
Speaker 4: So we had to actually like shoot those pictures with
Speaker 4: over eighteen actors but making it look like yeah, porn,
Speaker 4: and like that was probably the worst day of the job,
Speaker 4: was I was on set for that photo shoot. Any
Speaker 4: you know, even though they're over eighteen and they've it's
Speaker 4: a job and it's acting and it's consensual, just to
Speaker 4: like think about what you're creating and everyone knows that's
Speaker 4: what it is happening. It just was so icky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've covered Downloaded Child and some other episodes that
Speaker 1: deal with like you know, child sex abuse images and stuff,
Speaker 1: and like it is something about that just because it
Speaker 1: seems so vast and there's just like it is whack
Speaker 1: a mole, Like there's just you can try to get
Speaker 1: rid of it as much as you want, but it's
Speaker 1: like it's just you know, so there is something kind
Speaker 1: of dark, really dark about that.
Speaker 2: But have you ever been in like casual hangouts with
Speaker 2: friends and then you start talking about what you researched
Speaker 2: all day and they're like can you stop? That happens
Speaker 2: to me where I just will stop, start talking about
Speaker 2: stuff and not realize that we're at a fun gathering.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, all the time, all the time, especially
Speaker 4: when I was working there, Like I had, I had
Speaker 4: no filter about this stuff because we talked about it
Speaker 4: at work all the time and and at the you know,
Speaker 4: in the writer's room, like you kind of have to
Speaker 4: joke about it sometimes because otherwise it's just too heavy
Speaker 4: and like we we don't put those jokes in, like,
Speaker 4: but like you have to. And then I would sometimes
Speaker 4: repeat some of those jokes to friends and they're like,
Speaker 4: what the fuck are you talking? Like no, no, no,
Speaker 4: And I had to remember. But but thankfully once I left,
Speaker 4: I've that that went away pretty quickly. Yeah, are there any.
Speaker 2: Episodes that you pushed harder cases that got rejected?
Speaker 4: It wasn't really mine, but I supported this episode, but
Speaker 4: there was like a there was an episode we were
Speaker 4: calling Fractured Chakras. Count the letters and you can figure
Speaker 4: out what season that was, and it was like it
Speaker 4: was that yoga guru guy who was like a cult leader,
Speaker 4: blanking on his name. But oh it was the hot
Speaker 4: it's the hot yoga guy. Yeah he's not hot. It's
Speaker 4: hot yoga. It's yeah, I think. And we were gonna
Speaker 4: do an episode where the women he abused broke his penis,
Speaker 4: which I thought was kind of funenis.
Speaker 3: Broken and he loves to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah, he's like in medical medical textbooks. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he has a little scar. He'll show anybody.
Speaker 4: I think we ended up not doing that episode because
Speaker 4: nobody wanted to think about.
Speaker 3: A broken penis. Yeah, that's really funny.
Speaker 1: Robert, we have to ask you, do you have any
Speaker 1: feelings on RELEASEI the Rollins and Coores relationship.
Speaker 3: Did you was that always a plan that it was
Speaker 3: going to have endgame or what were they like?
Speaker 1: Oh, we never got to give them Elliott and Olivia,
Speaker 1: so now we're going to give them these two or like,
Speaker 1: was there any talk of that.
Speaker 4: It's funny they're together now on the show, aren't Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, interesting.
Speaker 3: He's a stepdaddy. I always wanted.
Speaker 4: And did you know that I co wrote Intent, which
Speaker 4: is also covered.
Speaker 1: Yes, where they where she rejects him at that hotel?
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because I actually interrupted Kara because she was
Speaker 2: talking about it. But she doesn't think Caresey's hot. I do,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you need to shut up, Karen.
Speaker 2: I'm going to take over this part because the rejection
Speaker 2: really was really tough. But I just don't think she
Speaker 2: was ready to let Levi into her life. You know,
Speaker 2: she's had a tough upbringing and like I just got
Speaker 2: her journey and not accepting what he was giving.
Speaker 4: I understand that. I'm sorry Kara that you can't see
Speaker 4: how I can't.
Speaker 3: See him, you know what.
Speaker 1: I think he's toned down his accent. But when he
Speaker 1: first came on the scene and he was like A like,
Speaker 1: I was like I can't with this, yeah, like and
Speaker 1: I'm sunny like, I was like, it was too much
Speaker 1: for me. It was like cartoony. But I think he's
Speaker 1: really calmed it down, especially now that he's an eighty
Speaker 1: a you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's definitely very cute. I would put
Speaker 4: him in the cute category. I don't know quite about hot,
Speaker 4: but yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, intent was good.
Speaker 2: And that guy who's the main guy in that because
Speaker 2: I love him from Shameless.
Speaker 4: He was great. That episode was kind of fun. You
Speaker 4: guys covered that one really well.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you.
Speaker 1: I mean the true crime of that is so wild.
Speaker 1: It's like we just had to make sure Karen didn't
Speaker 1: research it.
Speaker 2: I was like, don't look into this same let me
Speaker 2: fucking I was telling a tale.
Speaker 4: Oh and oh Steve Howie, Steve Howie. Yeah, Steve Howie
Speaker 4: was great. He was really fun to work with. And Okay,
Speaker 4: before I answer your Roleisi question about intent there. When
Speaker 4: I listened to your episode, I wanted to add something,
Speaker 4: which was, you know, you talked about that hashtag who
Speaker 4: is the Hand? And you were like, this is a
Speaker 4: little bit of a weird hashtag and it's like, but
Speaker 4: I get it. It's what it insta, you know, TikTok
Speaker 4: or Instagram people do. That was kind of an easter
Speaker 4: egg that I slipped in there because I don't know
Speaker 4: if you remember season fifteen or something, maybe she Marishka
Speaker 4: went to Paris and she was on a flight with
Speaker 4: and there was like a hand and it was like
Speaker 4: who And in real life we hashtagged from the writer's
Speaker 4: room account who is the Hand? And we were like
Speaker 4: teasing who is the hand? Insbo. So then four years
Speaker 4: later we had a new showrunner who wasn't there for
Speaker 4: who is the Hand? But I was there, and I
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, we needed a plot device where we
Speaker 4: see that the character has tattoos, because that's the clue
Speaker 4: we need, but we don't see the character's face. Okay,
Speaker 4: she does an Instagram post and with his hand there,
Speaker 4: and so that was kind of an inside joke for
Speaker 4: the SVU die hards out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is become a real thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because now it's like the soft launch of a
Speaker 2: relationship where it's like two beers on a table like
Speaker 2: it is kind of now SVU is always ahead of
Speaker 2: the curve, and I do feel like now that is
Speaker 2: an official like thing that you do when you first
Speaker 2: start her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that Christmas episode that we did, She's on
Speaker 1: her way to the Bahamas, and I think it's Cassidy.
Speaker 4: That's the hand.
Speaker 1: We don't know for sure, but like we were led
Speaker 1: to believe that it's Cassidy.
Speaker 2: Do you have a favorite Marishka boyfriend lover moment? Like
Speaker 2: is there someone that you liked her with or who
Speaker 2: you see her with eventually.
Speaker 3: Or not at all?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, well, I really liked Harry Connick Junior.
Speaker 4: I thought that was kind of fun. Okay, okay, but
Speaker 4: like in terms of my endgame, had I stayed at
Speaker 4: the show, I was a big Tucson fan. I just
Speaker 4: thought the evolution of her and Tucker was so cool
Speaker 4: and made a lot of sense, and like, I you know,
Speaker 4: I didn't love how Tucker was portrayed in the early seasons,
Speaker 4: and I loved how he evolved and that made so
Speaker 4: much sense to me, and then it made sense that
Speaker 4: they would really connect in that deep way. So yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, too bad he died and.
Speaker 3: Then release Ray and okay, so Raleisi.
Speaker 4: I was always into but I will, but like, I
Speaker 4: don't know, I don't know if it's my favorite romantic
Speaker 4: relationship because like I always kind of saw it as
Speaker 4: like a brother sistery relationship, and actually, in intent, I'm
Speaker 4: pretty sure I was the reason that they didn't just
Speaker 4: hook up like the other that we had knew. But
Speaker 4: my co writer was also new that year, and I
Speaker 4: think he was pushing for them to hook up, and
Speaker 4: I was like, I don't know if I see it.
Speaker 4: I think they're like more brother sister and it should
Speaker 4: be like almost, but then they don't, and so.
Speaker 1: They're also for they're not going to do it for
Speaker 1: the first time in a motel in West Virginia. I
Speaker 1: know that, like I, that's that's not the fantasy. I
Speaker 1: don't think for anyone. But that's hilarious. You are Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, I.
Speaker 3: Feel like block of it. You're a releasey cock blocker.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that was me. I also think I secretly
Speaker 4: and also eventually not so secretly, wanted to have Corezy
Speaker 4: come out as bisexual because because I am bisexual and
Speaker 4: it just like made it sense to me more than
Speaker 4: any other character on the show. But that never happened.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I wanted to ask you this because I did.
Speaker 4: That's what I want, Barber, bar easy, I forgot that's
Speaker 4: what I wanted.
Speaker 1: This is what I was going to ask you because
Speaker 1: we saw that you have a podcast called two by Guys.
Speaker 1: You want to shout out the podcast obviously, and we
Speaker 1: we have received from a lot of our listeners a
Speaker 1: theory that Raoul Arza was playing Barba as by.
Speaker 3: Do you have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 4: Is that true?
Speaker 1: Is that like a good like a cool theory, but
Speaker 1: no fact or like cause, I because when you said
Speaker 1: brother and sister, it reminded me of how I used
Speaker 1: to feel about Olivia and Barba. I always people are like,
Speaker 1: I love them together, and I'm like, I just thought
Speaker 1: that they were bro and sis. Like I never saw
Speaker 1: the I never saw the chemistry sexually between them.
Speaker 3: But other people obviously.
Speaker 4: Do totally agree with that, and I think Barba and
Speaker 4: Benson have perhaps a closer relationship than many romantic partners have,
Speaker 4: like it's so deep and they like really have a
Speaker 4: deep understanding of each other. But I agree it was
Speaker 4: always more professional slash brothers sisterly and I didn't see
Speaker 4: the spark there of romance. And in terms of Barbara
Speaker 4: being bisexual as a character, like I know that Raulu
Speaker 4: identifies as by and he is is very much that character,
Speaker 4: and I think that's a fair way to read it.
Speaker 4: But I also know that like that the actor kind
Speaker 4: of didn't want to be the bye Da on alone,
Speaker 4: or like he didn't want to be the queer Da.
Speaker 4: He wanted to be the Da.
Speaker 3: Like the rich day Yeah, the.
Speaker 4: Rich, weird aloft, hyper intelligent, yes, and so like he
Speaker 4: you know, we didn't ever want to like make that
Speaker 4: a big part of the character, and for fear would
Speaker 4: take away from other aspects of the character, you know,
Speaker 4: looking back, I don't. I was never out as by
Speaker 4: at the show. I came out during my last year
Speaker 4: there to my friends, but I was never out at
Speaker 4: work except to a few people who were also queer.
Speaker 4: But I came out publicly, like within a month or
Speaker 4: two of leaving the show. And and I think I
Speaker 4: might have a different view on it now of it
Speaker 4: doesn't take like that wouldn't necessarily take away from the character.
Speaker 4: In my opinion, it would add add a new layer.
Speaker 4: But I also can understand I like, not everyone watches
Speaker 4: the show that way or looks at it that way,
Speaker 4: And like, once a character comes out as queer, there's
Speaker 4: a segment of the law and order audience that is
Speaker 4: going to view them as an other and as different.
Speaker 4: And so there is something to be said for like
Speaker 4: a queer actor playing a character that certainly could be queer,
Speaker 4: but not being explicit about it and kind of bringing
Speaker 4: viewers into what that kind of a person is like
Speaker 4: and what that experience is without hitting them over the
Speaker 4: head with it. So like, I don't know exactly how
Speaker 4: I feel about it. It's a very complicated question because
Speaker 4: of what the show is, how big it is, and
Speaker 4: who the fans are.
Speaker 3: Sure, but I.
Speaker 4: Kind of wish there was more of talk about queerness
Speaker 4: and main character who are queer on the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we Ha was and then they ditched
Speaker 2: her after a season, and I know we didn't understand that.
Speaker 1: And we also talked to Bed Wong, and I know
Speaker 1: he was before your time, I think on the show.
Speaker 1: I don't think he came back any of your episodes,
Speaker 1: but like he was talking about how his character kind
Speaker 1: of was just like served a purpose and like never
Speaker 1: really had more of like a personal life or like
Speaker 1: an identity, and he kind of wished that it had
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 4: So that's interesting, right, I met Bed once. He was
Speaker 4: in one episode during my time there. He came back
Speaker 4: for you know, a special guest star, and yeah, I
Speaker 4: always thought that was kind of weird. He like came
Speaker 4: his character came out right before he kind of left
Speaker 4: the show, And like, I don't know, I do think
Speaker 4: it's such a mainstream network show that there's always like
Speaker 4: a little bit of a fear of alienating fans with queerness.
Speaker 4: But obviously I think that times are changing. And we
Speaker 4: should not be, Yeah, we should not be like following
Speaker 4: audiences fears and discomfort, we should be exposing them to
Speaker 4: queerness and queer people to normalize these things.
Speaker 1: So it's just like very funny to that there are
Speaker 1: people that are like, I watch this show for the
Speaker 1: rape and the murder. I'm not here for all this
Speaker 1: gay stuff, Like what are you you know, Like we
Speaker 1: used to get that a lot of like critiques of
Speaker 1: our podcast at the beginning was like, I didn't come
Speaker 1: here for your politics. It's like this is a show
Speaker 1: about crimes against women and children, like it is inherently political,
Speaker 1: Like we're not going to not talk about I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's a way to keep this like you know, biparty.
Speaker 2: It's strange because also with the when they had the
Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter episodes Twitter, people were really mad about
Speaker 2: it and like and then it's like, no, all the
Speaker 2: episodes are based on the news. If you're only upset
Speaker 2: about the sudden Black Lives Matter news, like you need
Speaker 2: to look inward because it's always been this with what's
Speaker 2: happening in the world. But it enraged people the COVID
Speaker 2: season that I dealt so much with race and internal
Speaker 2: racism within the department.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a it's a tough thing to balance, and
Speaker 4: it is because it is like a very political show.
Speaker 4: Like it's about the criminal justice system. It's about sex
Speaker 4: crimes and sexual assault, which are things that are hot,
Speaker 4: you know, hotly debated in our politics for for worse,
Speaker 4: Like there shouldn't be debates about these things, but there are.
Speaker 4: And like it's a tough balance because like I know,
Speaker 4: you know Warren if you follow who's the showrunner now
Speaker 4: and for most of the time I was there, he's
Speaker 4: really progressive. If you follow him on Twitter, you'll see
Speaker 4: he's like really progressive and and you know, fighting for
Speaker 4: the kind of things I agree with and the kind
Speaker 4: of things you talk about on this podcast. But then
Speaker 4: you must know that there's a big section of the
Speaker 4: SPU audience who doesn't see things that way. And when
Speaker 4: you zoom out a little to the Law and Order
Speaker 4: franchise and a lot of stuff that happened last summer
Speaker 4: and Black Lives Matter movement and the George Floyd protests,
Speaker 4: like it isn't that difficult to see how the entire
Speaker 4: franchise contributes to this myth that police are doing the
Speaker 4: right thing, and police are capturing criminals and protecting victims,
Speaker 4: and we should be funding them. And Olivia Benson, you know,
Speaker 4: your Olivia Benson in your town is going to do
Speaker 4: the right thing, where like that is not actually what
Speaker 4: most cops are like and not how the system often works,
Speaker 4: and like the show is kind of a best case
Speaker 4: scenario and even and there's like value in that, there's
Speaker 4: value in showing people how it should be done, but
Speaker 4: there's also some harm in making people think that's how it.
Speaker 1: Yes, we always say talk about it that it's a fantasy.
Speaker 1: We're like, this is a fantasy of the justice system,
Speaker 1: of course.
Speaker 3: Like it's not. I mean, once in a while, Olivia
Speaker 3: is chasing.
Speaker 4: Down a one of.
Speaker 1: The victims, not even pressing charges, and she's like, I
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna still work on this on my free time.
Speaker 1: Like it's like, you know, obviously a lot of it
Speaker 1: is not realistic.
Speaker 2: But early seasons they did a good job of any
Speaker 2: cops outside of the unit were like so the Panny Police,
Speaker 2: you know, they were all so mean, and so I
Speaker 2: always did appreciate that they put down other cops.
Speaker 3: I mean, we've had you for eight hours. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I know this has been like we could truly talk
Speaker 1: to you for a full other hour, but we should
Speaker 1: probably wrap it up and let you get back to
Speaker 1: say one thing about that, Yes, and I want to know, yeah,
Speaker 1: go first.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 4: Also, also just on that topic, I'll say, like one
Speaker 4: of the things I got to do as the researcher
Speaker 4: and also a writer was work with a lot of
Speaker 4: our technical consultants. So we had like former Sex Crimes
Speaker 4: cop of former Sex Times, da Medical Examiner, other stuff,
Speaker 4: and like they were great and they help us kind
Speaker 4: of figure out how to do the show as accurately
Speaker 4: as we can. But most of the time I would say, how,
Speaker 4: you know, what if this happened? The experts would say, well,
Speaker 4: that wouldn't happen because of this and this and this,
Speaker 4: or like they would settle before it got to this point,
Speaker 4: like it would never go this far, and I'm like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 4: but how do how could it happen? Yeah? So a
Speaker 4: lot of you know, so much what you see on
Speaker 4: the show is like the one in a million extreme
Speaker 4: case and it is accurate as to how that would
Speaker 4: happen if it ever did, but like it never does, right,
Speaker 4: So it's just like it's kind of a fan it
Speaker 4: is a fantasy show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we then do the research on the crime
Speaker 2: and so much of our researches, and then the cops
Speaker 2: decided not to investigate. They didn't do that, they didn't
Speaker 2: believe her. They actually threw her out and said, you're
Speaker 2: a dumb whore. You know.
Speaker 3: It's like you're reading the research.
Speaker 2: And you're like, oh my god, cops from coast to
Speaker 2: coast are just refusing to do their jobs in any capacity.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: I was gonna.
Speaker 2: Say, is there an episode that you worked on and
Speaker 2: wrote that we should cover that we have not?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. One of
Speaker 4: my favorite ones that I wrote that was just like,
Speaker 4: if there's such a thing as a fun episode of
Speaker 4: S for you, this was the most fun. Is called
Speaker 4: assaulting Reality.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm obsessed. Obsessed The Bachelor. It's like it's
Speaker 3: like it's like.
Speaker 1: Unreal, I want you want to do that one? And
Speaker 1: I want to get Wendy Malick.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, Wendy Malick was so good and uh and
Speaker 4: her her counterpart in that episode was so good. I'm
Speaker 4: blanking on his names.
Speaker 1: The dad from Family Ties, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with her, like I'm a Wendy Malix Stan.
Speaker 4: I love her and also I fanboyd with this one
Speaker 4: was the girl woman who played the younger producer Larissa Oline.
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, she was Alex Max.
Speaker 4: She was Alex Mack.
Speaker 1: Yes, that episode I think is based they said on
Speaker 1: sexual assault from Big Brother, right you told me that.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, there isn't There isn't a ton to talk
Speaker 4: about with that story, but there's a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's kind of based on something.
Speaker 1: And it seemed like it was kind of going on
Speaker 1: at the same time as Unrel was on and everybody
Speaker 1: was talking about Unreal.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh, we totally in the writer's room were like,
Speaker 4: we love Unrel me and my co writer, Yeah, love Unreal.
Speaker 4: Can we do our version of Unreal? It's also like
Speaker 4: I thought that Decline and Fall was our version of Succession.
Speaker 4: I think I wrote that to you in an email. Yes,
Speaker 4: but then I looked it up and it turns out
Speaker 4: our SVU episode aired before Succession started.
Speaker 1: So well, that happens all the time, though, I mean
Speaker 1: like sometimes we get like we'll research, like something will
Speaker 1: happen on SVU and like the crime happens ten years later,
Speaker 1: like a real crime that matches up with it exactly
Speaker 1: like happens ten years later.
Speaker 3: It's really crazy.
Speaker 2: Is there anything you'd like to plug or talk more
Speaker 2: about your podcast or any final thoughts or words or anything.
Speaker 3: This is obviously been magical.
Speaker 4: This has been lovely. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.
Speaker 4: My podcast is called Two Bay Guys. It's about like
Speaker 4: mail by some actuality and gender fluidity, and like, I'm
Speaker 4: trying to get back onto doing television stuff too and
Speaker 4: writing a lot of stuff about that because I think
Speaker 4: there's not that much out there about male sexual fluidity
Speaker 4: and masculinity. It's very like people have a lot of
Speaker 4: shame about this stuff, like I did for a long time.
Speaker 3: Do you watch it Insecure?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've like season one Ye had a baby storyline.
Speaker 2: That's all I could think of, And you know, we
Speaker 2: do watch so much television.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is a lot more the last couple of years.
Speaker 4: There was there was a storyline on I May Destroy
Speaker 4: You Too that I thought was, yes, yes, there's I'm
Speaker 4: like Transparent is one of my favorite shows. Although there's
Speaker 4: no male bisexual characters there, but there's a lot of
Speaker 4: good queer stuff there. Yeah, there's more, Kimny.
Speaker 1: I have to ask you one final question that Liza
Speaker 1: did put in the document and I thought it was silly,
Speaker 1: but now I feel like it could be a fun
Speaker 1: way to end this podcast and this episode Decline and Fall.
Speaker 3: Have you ever tried quay ludes?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we for every episode I researched. I always
Speaker 4: have to got to try the drive put myself in
Speaker 4: the place of the characters. No, I haven't, but you know,
Speaker 4: in the right consensual circumstance, could be fun.
Speaker 3: No, we are best friends with him now. I want
Speaker 3: everyone to know.
Speaker 1: He did come to our live show in LA and
Speaker 1: we hung out with him until two in the morning.
Speaker 1: He's a wonderful man and.
Speaker 3: Drank in the green room.
Speaker 2: And we're never going to reveal any of this, but
Speaker 2: we got off We got off the record scoop as well.
Speaker 2: So we are appreciative to Robert forever. And I would
Speaker 2: like to go dancing with him, so hopefully he knows
Speaker 2: that's going to be forced.
Speaker 4: Upon him at any moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be socializing with him at a future date
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 3: No, it's incredible.
Speaker 2: I love hearing about all like I like the process
Speaker 2: I like the job, I like the work. I like
Speaker 2: hearing about the work. So yeah, it was really fucking cool.
Speaker 3: Just Y, I don't know. I really liked him.
Speaker 2: And who knew that one tweet compliment with suddenly put
Speaker 2: two Jewish women into his life that he'll never be
Speaker 2: able to shake away.
Speaker 3: So well, I think he's also Jewish.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just I loved his insights and it's
Speaker 1: fun to hear how you know they combine the stories,
Speaker 1: how they find stories, you.
Speaker 3: Know, stuff like that. That's kind of the bread and
Speaker 3: butter of our podcast.
Speaker 2: And it was a casting, the defense attorneys, the subbing
Speaker 2: in and out. It's who gets him excited, you know.
Speaker 2: And I arrested development west Wing Scoop. Send it Robert's way.
Speaker 2: He wants to know, have you fucked someone from those shows?
Speaker 2: You tell him get into those dms and give that info.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like the Also that no one can tell us
Speaker 1: this was based off the wrong crime because he told
Speaker 1: us what crime was based off of and gave me
Speaker 1: all of his information.
Speaker 3: So I loved that.
Speaker 1: I loved being able to get straight out of the
Speaker 1: writer's room.
Speaker 2: No, it's really wild who we get to talk to.
Speaker 2: It's it never really gets old for me. Yeah, talented, passionate,
Speaker 2: cool people just really giving us their time, and I
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a this was a crazy episode. What
Speaker 1: did you feel like you gleaned from this that crazy old,
Speaker 1: rich white men are insane and should not be allowed
Speaker 1: to think that they are living forever.
Speaker 2: And turn the rich burn them to death everywhere. I
Speaker 2: don't care always your uncle rich, well we're burning him,
Speaker 2: that's what.
Speaker 3: And it's all just so deep.
Speaker 2: I mean, these post mortems with time are just so depressing.
Speaker 2: It's just like every week we're like, well, I guess
Speaker 2: we learned. Everything's a nightmare and there's nothing we can
Speaker 2: do about it. Yeah, and next week join us. No,
Speaker 2: and here's a and here's an organization that's trying their best,
Speaker 2: but don't worry, they'll never truly solve anything because the
Speaker 2: horrors of the world are ever everlasting and changing.
Speaker 3: Then we can have a more postmortem.
Speaker 1: I think it's I thought it was interesting to look
Speaker 1: at how Sumner Redstone's family life was, like like working
Speaker 1: with your parents or working with a family member is
Speaker 1: so complicated, and like how business just fucked up their
Speaker 1: relationships so much, you know, like I don't know all
Speaker 1: these family conglomerates that are just like generations of inherited
Speaker 1: wealth and you know, inherited power. It's like wild and
Speaker 1: so dysfunctional.
Speaker 2: Well, because I wonder if love is void in their
Speaker 2: upbringings so they don't value it in terms of interpersonal relationships.
Speaker 2: Like if you're just judging people on like who has
Speaker 2: what and who is what, and it's not deeper real,
Speaker 2: then like you'll never be able to learn that, I
Speaker 2: don't think. I think then you marry another rich person
Speaker 2: with a title, and then you have kids and you
Speaker 2: send them to boarding school and teach them how to
Speaker 2: be dicks, and like, yeah, that's why these people just
Speaker 2: lack empathy and understanding of the real world. They don't
Speaker 2: have it. They don't have it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean sending facts is to it from
Speaker 3: your dad.
Speaker 2: Wow, Like I don't know how you're doing it, like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, faxing. But you know, I mentioned a
Speaker 2: friend of ours got to go to that white Lotus
Speaker 2: resort and she just said it was silent. Rich families
Speaker 2: not smiling or enjoying themselves, just like existing in paradise
Speaker 2: with no excitement, and that that.
Speaker 3: Is that is their lives.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: That is sad, Yeah, because we all like want to
Speaker 2: be rich, but then the people that just are rich
Speaker 2: are not usually friendly.
Speaker 3: But it says it best about New York.
Speaker 2: She goes, you can't tell me a place with only
Speaker 2: rich people is the best place to be. It's just
Speaker 2: not true, you know what I mean, Like, a place
Speaker 2: with only rich people is not good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great quote.
Speaker 2: What's the what's the place that's really fancy? And your
Speaker 2: Monte Carlo montevist Like, what is the Monte Carlo?
Speaker 3: I think, no, but what's the one? Sandro pe No,
Speaker 3: what's like It's.
Speaker 2: Like Monico, Monaco, Monico, Monico.
Speaker 3: That's the wild.
Speaker 1: One, right, Monte Carlo, I feel like, is supposed to
Speaker 1: be hop But where even is that?
Speaker 3: I'm like that in Monaco? Maybe maybe?
Speaker 1: Yes, Monte Carlo is officially an administrative area of the
Speaker 1: Principality of Monaco.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's it.
Speaker 1: We were both right, and we're going to make a
Speaker 1: party of Monte Carlo someday.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: I just wanna I want a coast where those little
Speaker 2: houses are all tight together, and you're looking at like
Speaker 2: a village of tight houses that are up on a
Speaker 2: Cliff like, that's what I want.
Speaker 1: That's what I want kind of what I'm looking at
Speaker 1: right now in a picture of Monte Carlo, right, But
Speaker 1: they're like, that's you know I think you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Like that was also like Porto Fino and like that
Speaker 1: Talian of vi Era. Yeah, so beautiful. We went. We
Speaker 1: went right from eat the rich, kill all money to
Speaker 1: like where we would go on a great vacation if
Speaker 1: we had the money. We're you know what, we all
Speaker 1: contain morelitudes and we'd like to think about, you know,
Speaker 1: hypothetical vacations in our minds. Should I move on to
Speaker 1: this week's what would Sister peg? Do?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we give you guys
Speaker 1: a resource about something to give you more knowledge about
Speaker 1: something we learned in today's episode. And I thought it
Speaker 1: was kind of interesting how this teen in the show
Speaker 1: kept being like, oh, it's true, like you do have
Speaker 1: to like get a girl to sign a contract a
Speaker 1: qustor these days, and like he'd been taught all these
Speaker 1: shitty views of consent and you know what it means
Speaker 1: to initiate romantic contact with someone, And so I think
Speaker 1: that that starts when they're really young. So I was
Speaker 1: looking around and I found this place called the Childmind Institute,
Speaker 1: And we'll have a link in our show notes as
Speaker 1: usual and in our Instagram story. But they have a
Speaker 1: guide on how to talk to kids about consent and boundaries,
Speaker 1: and it's a downloadable PDF that explains what it means
Speaker 1: to get consent before sex. This is probably for those
Speaker 1: of you that I don't know, maybe your kids on
Speaker 1: the pew pre puberty like age or something, because I
Speaker 1: don't know that I need to be showing this pdf
Speaker 1: to Rosie right now, but you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like so that they're getting consent before sex, they understand
Speaker 1: that like, oh, a sex act is like two people
Speaker 1: mutually having a good time.
Speaker 3: Like no one should be sitting there frozen, not speaking.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, it's really important to teach
Speaker 1: teenagers about consent and the necessity of consent being verbal
Speaker 1: and so you know, it's awkward conversations, but they're ones
Speaker 1: that we have to have. So this is a handy
Speaker 1: dandy little PDF that will help you with that convo.
Speaker 4: So check that out.
Speaker 1: And as always, all of our what would sister peg
Speaker 1: dos from all time are in our highlight WWSPD on
Speaker 1: our Instagram.
Speaker 2: Amazing. Thank you so much for that. Yeah, consent is important.
Speaker 2: It's so weird that rape is just part of our
Speaker 2: culture and for thousands of years like just no big deal.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh my god.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so I'm really hopeful for all these children
Speaker 2: learning all these new ways to respect humanity. Anyways, next
Speaker 2: week we'll be doing a silly episode, Send in the Clowns,
Speaker 2: Send in the Clowns. Fun Fun, Fun Season nineteen episodes seventeen.
Speaker 3: It's a wild one. Buckle up. It's fun.
Speaker 2: Cannot wait to talk to you guys next week. Thank
Speaker 2: you for always listening. We appreciate it so much. Xoxo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to you guys next week. Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and.
Speaker 3: At glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you, so much to our produce Sir Analie Nelson.
Speaker 3: And to our mixer John Bradley, and.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen
Speaker 2: Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 3: Thank you to.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Danielle Kramer and
Speaker 1: everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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Speaker 3: Dun Dun