WEBVTT - Jada Pinkett Smith Goes There: On Entanglements, Self Worth, and Refusing to be Distracted 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.600 Whether it's family, work, health, money, life can be a lot, 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:06.760 and it helps to have somebody you can talk to. 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.480 Talkspace therapists are here to listen and help you process, 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:15.360 gain insights, and develop coping strategies for a happier, mentally 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:20.160 healthier you. Talkspace Virtual Therapy is covered by many insurance plans, 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.759 and most insured members pay a twenty five dollars cope, 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.440 often even less no insurance. Now get eighty dollars off 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:31.160 of your first month when you go to talkspace dot 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:39.080 com slash Katiecuric. Hi, everyone, I'm Katiekuric, and this is 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:45.080 next question. My guest today, Jada Pinkett Smith. She's one 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:49.000 of the most herself people I've ever met. Of course, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.600 like any public figure, she's been scrutinized in the media 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.920 and on social media, but she's always resisted labels and 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.480 boxes that are so often imposed on her by other people. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.840 She's lost and found herself in the public eye more 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.920 than once at this point, and she's learned some things 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:11.800 about resilience and grit. She's got a new memoir out 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.040 and it's called Worthy And in our interviews, she's here 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.160 to bring us on our journey to self worth and 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.920 to set the record straight on a lot of stuff, 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:25.640 rumors about her sexuality, her close friendship with Tupac Shakor 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:30.600 before his tragic early death, and some painful and beautiful 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.880 public moments with her life partner Will Smith. And yes, 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.880 don't worry. We talk about what Jada calls the Holy 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:43.160 Slap last year at the Oscars. We jump right into 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.759 it in our interview because I just have to get 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.880 into how she navigates all of this, especially being someone 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.120 who people love to talk about endlessly. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:02:01.240 I hope you enjoy. Thank you, Yeah, how are you. 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:03.160 It's so good to see you. 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:05.760 Congratulations on your book. 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:07.639 Thank you, Thank you very much. 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:08.800 It's a big deal. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.240 It's like giving birth to another baby, right I know, 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:13.320 it's my little. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:15.120 Baby going into the world in a little while. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:17.880 How does that make you feel? Are you scared? Are 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.280 you nervous? Are you excited? What do you think is 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.440 the overwriting emotion you're feeling right now? 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.480 I definitely have a bit of anxiety, you know, And 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.200 I think it's not so much about like the content, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:34.600 but you know, I just I want it's the intention. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:39.480 I'm just hoping that people get the intention of why 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.080 I wrote the book, and I'm just hoping that it 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.240 can be helpful. I just know on my journey it 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:50.280 was so difficult, like finding stories from other women that 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.080 I found relatable to my experience, you know, to just 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.360 give me a little oxygen when I was in my sticky, 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.560 challenging moments, you know. And so I'm just hoping that 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.959 this could give little breadcrumbs, little oxygen, you know what 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:07.359 I mean. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:12.000 When you described the book sort of your thirty second 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.800 elevator pitch, Jada, And of course we're going to talk 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:16.280 a lot about what's in it. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:17.799 How would you describe it? 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:25.320 I would describe it as, you know, a challenging journey 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.359 to self worth. 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.240 Yeah, a woman's challenging journey to self worth. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.400 Well, we're going to talk about that journey, but before 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.880 we do, you know, I was thinking about you, Jada, 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.000 and I've known you for a long time. I remember 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.200 when you came on my talk show and you were 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:46.680 very involved with, you know, stopping human trafficking. You were 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:52.760 so eloquent and poised, and I really enjoyed talking to you, 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:56.840 and you had a tremendous amount of depth and commitment 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:01.960 to this issue. But you know, oh, Man, people sure 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:07.000 love to talk smack about you, and people have such 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:11.640 strong opinions about you. I mean really about everyone in 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:13.760 this day and age, but you seem to be a 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:18.000 particular lightning rod. And I'm wondering if you ever felt like, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.839 screw you people. I'm not going to give you more 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:25.800 ammunition to attack me. And my life is none of 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:26.760 your damn business. 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:28.760 I think that. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:35.800 For me because I've been attacked so much, and because 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.760 it really rolls off. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.320 Of my shoulder in a certain way now it does. 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:49.279 Yeah, because that's one of the beautiful parts about this 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:51.120 journey of. 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.240 Self worth is like you really like my. 0:04:56.200 --> 0:05:00.080 Identity of self worth and what self worth means to me? 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.440 It has nothing to do or needs no validation from 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.599 an outside source, right, And. 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.280 I know who I am, and I think that. 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:16.360 My belief is that a woman's journey is still considered 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:21.920 so taboo to really really talk about it, right, And 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:26.080 I felt like, man, I've earned that, meaning what else 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:27.320 could people say about me? 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:29.880 And here I am. 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.359 My heart's still beating, I'm still breathing in oxygen, you 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.320 know what I mean. And it's like I'm still standing 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:42.839 and I know that most of what people talk about 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.360 is really around a lot of misunderstanding, people really thinking 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:51.159 that they know my story, and I got to take 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:57.520 some responsibility around that that I have contributed to you 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.799 know a lot of that misunder standing and false narrative. 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:06.560 So and that this is all part of the human experience, 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.720 but I really feel that it's important for those of 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:14.680 us who can, as far as women, to share our 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:20.280 authentic journeys. And I just feel like whatever, you know, 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:27.320 it's like I have really been able to deal with 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.919 my level of self judgment, and so anybody's judgment towards me, 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:38.160 you know, it has no force because my self judgment 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:45.440 is I won't say cured, but I definitely have a 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:49.360 really beautiful management of it. And so I know who 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.680 I am. Three and three you really share. 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.160 I was going to say you really go there, which 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.279 happened to be the title of my memoir that came 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.400 out a couple of years ago, where I wanted to 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:05.680 be very honest. But you are incredibly honest and vulnerable, 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:11.160 and I'm wondering how scary that was, And are there 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:15.320 things that you kept to yourself in this world where 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:19.200 we share so much, were there things that were almost 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.840 sacred to you? That you didn't want to tell the 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:23.640 world about. 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.600 Well, I'm going to tell you here's what's interesting. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.200 As vulnerable and as open as I am in this book, 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:34.320 it's scratching the. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.760 Surface, it really is. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.040 You know. It's like I kept I kept that close 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.880 to the chest, you know, those things, And so I'm 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.960 sharing the things that I'm comfortable with, you know, and 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.920 you know some of the stuff. Though, I was more 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:59.880 concerned about others than myself. I was concerned about my mom. 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:07.160 You know, our journey together, and you know I she's come, 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.160 She's come through her journey in such in such a 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.760 beautiful way. But I know that rehashing things can be 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:16.520 difficult and then having. 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:17.720 It in print, you know. 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:24.000 So I was really more concerned about others than myself. 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.520 I want to talk about your mom and your grandmother 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:32.760 in a moment. But the opening pages are really riveting 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.960 because you described Jada an extremely troubling scene that occurred 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:41.119 a little over ten years ago. You found yourself considering 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.240 ways you could take your own life and make it 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.120 appear to be a fatal accident. Can you take us 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.480 back to that moment and why you thought it was 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:53.880 important to begin your book with that. 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.760 I wanted to, well, first of all, I think that 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.440 a huge part of my journey has been centered around 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.760 mental health, honestly, you know. 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:09.120 And I also. 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.520 Wanted people to know from the gate, hey guys, we're 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.040 about to take a deep dive, you know. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.160 And that was. 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:25.119 Important to me. And that's really why I started there, because. 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:30.199 That was set. I mean, that was a really difficult That. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:34.120 Was my bottom. Right. It's like, Okay, I'm gonna start 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.000 you at the bottom, and then I'm gonna take you back, 0:09:38.320 --> 0:09:40.400 and then I'm going to bring you back to that moment, 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.040 you know, and then I'm going to take you on 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:44.360 the next journey from. 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:47.160 That moment, you know, And I'm going to explain to 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.880 you how I got to that moment, which was in 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.160 your car, right, can you explain? I think it won't 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.280 spoil anything because it is on the first few pages 0:09:58.320 --> 0:09:58.880 of the book. 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.720 So yeah, yeah, I mean, I just remember, I can't 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.800 remember I was coming from. 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.280 I think I was coming from somewhere. 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.520 In I think I had a meeting or something, and 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:20.400 I was literally driving home, and I just remember thinking 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.120 I was just looking while I was driving, and it 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.679 was a road that I had driven quite often, and 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:31.720 I was like, you know what, I'm going to start 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:36.400 checking out these clips. I really feel like I could 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.920 make this look like an accident. I think this might 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.760 be it. This might be the remedy here. And I 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:50.440 remember pulling over and looking in all the different angles 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:51.480 at which I could turn. 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:52.880 My wheel and would I do. 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.480 It at night when I do it during the day, 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.760 getting out the car, saying if it was steep enough. 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:05.120 And as morbid as it might sound, I remember feeling. 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.839 More at ease because I had a plan. 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.960 You know. Really, that wasn't the first time I had 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.480 thought about Yeah, that wasn't the first time. 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.920 And it was that it was just really important for 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:21.520 me to. 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:26.600 Find a way to make it look like an accident 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:27.920 because of my kids. 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.199 I didn't want my children to ever think. 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:35.240 That I had committed suicide, you know, And that was 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:38.439 really the most important part for me, you know, and 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:40.720 it was one of the reasons why I was able 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.440 to hold out for so long. And I was like, oh, 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:46.640 this is the way that I can do it. 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.600 You know, you had considered ending your life when you 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.240 were in your twenties as well. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:54.040 I did. 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:56.880 I did, and that was the first time, and that 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:02.840 was that happened in it. It was almost like it 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.200 was like a nervous breakdown. It was like just an 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:11.040 overwhelming amount of intense emotions just took over me at once, 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.800 to the point that my body was shaken. I I 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.160 kind of lost control of myself. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.000 And I remember getting home and calling my mother. I 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:21.480 was like, you got to get out here. 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.240 And my mother had to figure out, you know, how 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:29.560 to get her job situation together, and she was she 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.280 was I think my mother was only a year into 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:38.080 her sobriety. And I called my girlfriend mc light. I 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.400 was like, I cannot be left alone. I need you 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.400 right now, and she got on the first plane to 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.760 come out to be with me in LA until my 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:51.120 mother could come. 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:52.800 Yeah. 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.040 And you know, I never and I talked about it 0:12:56.040 --> 0:13:01.000 in the book. From there, DeBie Allen got me a 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:07.480 doctor who got me to psychiatrists that put me on 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:11.520 some prozac to just stabilize me. And then I started 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:18.000 therapy with the doctor that Debbie got me to and 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.800 I got stabilized. But then I met Will and he 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:23.000 became my new prozac. 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:24.080 You know. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.640 It's like that idea of just like I'm good, you know, 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:29.800 I got this new love in my life, but you know, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.000 I'm good. I don't need to worry about all of that, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.960 and so I abandoned. I kind of just dropped the 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.480 ball on my mental health. But you know, at that time, 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.080 nobody was talking about mental health in the way that 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:43.200 we talk about it now. 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:45.400 It's amazing, isn't it. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.040 Yeah, nobody was talking about it, and so I kind 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:50.600 of felt like, Okay, I spent a year. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.439 You know, I'm feeling good. I should be getting back 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:54.280 to my life now. 0:13:55.240 --> 0:14:03.800 You know, you know, I really believe the increased awareness 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.280 around mental health is vital. So I'm glad to share 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.480 a message with all of you from our partners at Talkspace. 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.280 If you've ever thought should I be in therapy? The 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.560 answer is definitely yes. I say that because almost anyone 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:23.479 can benefit from therapy, whether you're struggling with big challenges 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.680 or simply want to talk to a trained professional who 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.600 will give you some perspective. But if you think you 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.360 don't have the time or money for therapy, I have 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.880 the solution Talkspace. Register at talkspace dot com and be 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.880 matched with a licensed therapist within days. You'll do virtual 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.280 video or audio appointments. Message back and forth with your 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.560 therapist or both. No need to take time off or 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:53.040 get childcare. This is therapy wherever, whenever works best for you. Plus, 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.880 talkspace is in network with major insurers and they'll build 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.920 your plan directly. Most insured members only pay a twenty 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:06.000 five dollars cope often less. No insurance, no problem. Now 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.480 get eighty dollars off of your first month when you 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:12.760 go to talkspace dot com slash Katiecurric Match with a 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:22.320 licensed therapist today at talkspace dot com slash Katiecurric. I'm 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:27.600 so fascinated, Jada by what people experience as children and 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:33.160 those wounds and that trauma and how it manifests itself 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.160 later in life. And you spend a lot of time 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:40.480 talking about your family, which is a very tender and 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:45.120 nuanced to I think portrait, because there was a lot 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:49.760 of good but a lot of really hard stuff you 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.800 dealt with. You grew up in Baltimore. Can you talk 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.800 a little bit, Jada about your family situation about first 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:00.200 about your mom, a little bit about your dad, and 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.040 then I'm going to move on to your grandmother. 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:02.480 Marian. 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:08.360 Yeah, my mom, My mom had you know, she was 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:09.040 a teen mom. 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:14.880 She had me at seventeen, you know, and my grandmother 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:21.920 insisted that she married my father, who was an addict 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.800 and an alcoholic and a criminal, and. 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.360 Two kids, you know, got married. They only stayed married 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:31.840 for a year. 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:37.360 My father was abusive, and thank goodness, my mother was 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.840 you know, smart enough to just you know, they had 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.840 an incident, a physical, violent incident, and that was it 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:45.160 for her. 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:45.880 She moved in. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:50.480 With my grandparents and I we basically lived with them 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:52.520 off and on throughout my childhood. 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:56.560 Your father, I think, told you when you were seven 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.560 years old, I'm a drug addict and a criminal, so 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.880 I can't be your father. And you described that moment 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.640 as one of the most important lessons in your young life. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:13.720 Yeah, so it really taught me how to really embraced 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:14.560 harsh truths. 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.000 I have to tell you I was. 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:21.200 I remember being so relieved that he told me the truth, 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.040 right that He's like, whatever expectations you have of me, 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.120 I mean, that's basically what you're saying. I'm not gonna 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.080 be able to live up to the daddy thing, you know, 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.240 And I at that age appreciated that. 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:38.640 Now, as I got older, I got. 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:44.399 To see how that affected how my level of self 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:49.760 worth with men and in intimate relationships, you know. But 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.640 that was when I got older. But at that particular time, 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.760 because I didn't really have he wasn't really in my 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.159 life in that way anyway, and I hadn't had had 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.679 a father, I didn't even know what it actually was 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.280 anyway to miss it. You know. 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.040 It wasn't until my stepfather came into the picture that 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.760 was like, oh, this is what a father is. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.399 You know. And then when that didn't, when he you know, 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:21.800 left the premises, I really felt the loss of a 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:22.680 father figure. Then. 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.919 So you are basically living with your grandparents, Gilbert and 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.440 Marian and your mom. Your dad is out of the picture, 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:37.439 You're relieved, but your mom then runs into a lot 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:38.880 of challenges. 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:40.320 Yeah. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:42.240 Yeah, my mother. 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:49.399 Was a heroin addict, a high high, high functioning heroin addict, 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:53.760 because she worked as a nurse and at times even 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:59.679 was head of a woman's clinic in Baltimore at the 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:06.720 high of her addiction. And so yeah, we definitely she 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.120 definitely had a lot of challenges in regards to her addiction. 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.160 How can you be a high functioning heroin addict. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:21.960 Yes, I've never seen that, but my mother, Yeah, she's 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:27.040 a I've seen high functioning alcoholics, but I've never met 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:28.760 a high functioning heroin addict. 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:29.359 But she was that. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:34.000 I mean, when you see pictures of my mother in 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:38.399 my teen years two throughout all the years, you would 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.040 never know, you would never know, never know. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.280 But she got help. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:50.600 Once I was she would She was in and out 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:59.280 of rehab during my teen years, and she finally I 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.560 was twenty by the time my mother got clean. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.479 You talk about your grandmother, Marian, and you write whenever 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.240 I think of my origin story, it's not really set 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:13.000 on the streets of Baltimore. I think of Marian's garden. 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.000 She was my mother's mother. Some of my earliest memories 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.840 were formed at her side, out in her garden, learning 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:25.480 powerful lessons I would use for the rest of my life. Yeah, 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.800 what did you learn from your grandmother? Oh man, how 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:31.320 you can you know? 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:37.479 My grandmother was a composter before that was a thing, 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.960 you know, And how you can take fish heads and 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:47.000 lemon peels, and you know, all of this garbage and 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:51.000 put it into the earth and make some really great things, 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:56.400 you know, help nourish the earth, you know, and how 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.920 nothing is wasted. And that was a lesson for me. 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:01.480 You know. 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:07.920 She had this rose garden, and she loved these roses, 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.520 and it was so amazing to me how these roses 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.440 were so beautiful, but they had these really thick thorns, 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:21.360 really thick thorns. And you know, just as I got 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:26.600 older and recognizing like wow, how something so beautiful really 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.600 understood how to set a boundary right and so right? 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:33.960 How you have to set boundaries around all the treasures, 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.160 all the beautiful treasures within yourself. 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.080 And that's something I'm still learning to this day. 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.200 Writing a book is a bit like therapy, And I'm 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:47.600 curious if you have a better understanding of this turbulent 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:52.639 childhood of yours and how it has manifested itself in 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:56.160 the woman you became and are continuing to become. 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:02.760 Yeah, my mom, and I has beautiful aha moments writing 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.120 this book. You know, That's why it was so important 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:08.960 for me to go into the history of my great 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:13.639 grandmother to my grandmother, to my mother to myself, because 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:18.240 you got to see this generational this line of trauma 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:24.479 through us, all right, and how along the line, you know, 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.080 how that generational trauma was getting healed along the way. 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:33.480 And I think my mother seeing that line and being 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:34.960 able to connect the dots. 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:37.919 My mother got a lot. 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:41.600 Of healing, and so did I in regards to why 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.719 my mother might have reacted a certain way in certain 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:48.000 aspects of my life, like when I got pregnant, needing 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:49.480 me to be married, because. 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:53.439 When she got pregnant, my grandmother demanded she get married, 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:54.280 you know. 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:59.439 So how her her trauma from that experience just bled 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:05.879 into so, you know, my experience, and that was really 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.399 that was really eye opening for us. But this book, 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:14.640 I got so much healing out of it, just being 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:20.080 able to make peace with so many aspects of my life, 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:24.160 deep in the peace because I thought I had. 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:26.440 You know, once you write a book, you're like, oh, 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:27.280 I thought I dealt with that. 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:31.520 It's like, oh, actually, there's more stuff there that has 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:32.960 to be looked at and dealt with. 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.040 And I got the opportunity to do that. 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:39.720 You know, when you were younger, why do you think 0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:43.239 you gravitated to the arts. And I'm wondering was that 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:49.240 in response? Was it looking for some kind of fantasy 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:51.800 world where you could take on a different role and 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:54.680 be a different person and kind of get away from 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:56.560 some of the things that were difficult. 0:23:57.600 --> 0:24:01.080 Yeah, no, because I was I remember being three years 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:03.439 old and playing the Wicked Witch of the West in 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:10.280 nursery school and just loving it. I think I was 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:15.320 born as an artist. And my grandmother, my grandmother, was 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:19.720 an artist. She was an oil painter. Like my grandmother 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:23.520 was a visual artist. She played the piano, she was 0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:27.960 an oil painter, she could sketch, she threw clay on 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:31.760 the wheel. All of her kids are artists in a 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:34.880 certain manner. My mother makes jewelry with silver. I mean, 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.920 you name it, right, And so I think that we 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:43.240 all kind of had that artistic bug. And my grandmother 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:48.159 really cultivated my interests in the arts. 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:49.960 So I had. 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:54.680 To take tap dance, ballet, I had to take piano classes. 0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:56.000 All of it. 0:24:56.040 --> 0:24:57.600 I had to throw. I had to throw clay on 0:24:57.680 --> 0:24:59.960 the wheel. I had to learn how to arrange flow. 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:06.040 So that's what my days were full of. Like I 0:25:06.160 --> 0:25:09.440 did not have a resting moment. Like on the weekends, 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.520