1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,760
Speaker 1: Since the release of Stefan Morant's story, there have been

2
00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,920
Speaker 1: some exciting new developments. This is a re release of

3
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:11,479
Speaker 1: his story with brand new content. In the late eighties

4
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,240
Speaker 1: and early nineties, Stefan Morant and his best friend Scott

5
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,439
Speaker 1: Lewis were dealing drugs for local New Haven, Connecticut Kingpinn

6
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,919
Speaker 1: Frank Perezi, who was about to go to prison on

7
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,360
Speaker 1: a weapons charge. When Perizi asked Scott Lewis to take

8
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,000
Speaker 1: out a larger role in his business while he was away,

9
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,160
Speaker 1: Scott refused, a decision that altered the course of his

10
00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,720
Speaker 1: and Stefan's lives. On October eleventh, nineteen ninety, former New Haven,

11
00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: Connecticut alderman Ricardo Turner and his lover Lamont Fields were

12
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: shot and killed while they laid in bed. Detective Vincent

13
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 1: Rouchi is believed to have pinned this double homicide on

14
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,360
Speaker 1: Scott Lewis. At Frank Perzi's request, Rauchi pressured Stefan Morant

15
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 1: to implicates Scott Lewis in a murder. He knew nothing

16
00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 1: about a false statement that Stefan recanted the very next day. However,

17
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,360
Speaker 1: his refusal to participate in Scott Lewis's wrongful conviction sealed

18
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,600
Speaker 1: him to the same fate. Rauchi coerced and incentivized another

19
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,120
Speaker 1: street dealer, Ovil Ruiz, sending Scott and Stefan away for

20
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,480
Speaker 1: seventy years. Eventually, it took an FBI investigation and the

21
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,200
Speaker 1: help of law students under Professor Brett Dignam to untangle

22
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 1: Parisi and Rauchi's web of lies, setting Stefan and Scott

23
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 1: free after both had served over twenty years for a

24
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: crime they didn't commit. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back

25
00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,960
Speaker 1: to wrongful conviction. Fasten your seat belts and listen up,

26
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,760
Speaker 1: because the story of Stefan Moran includes a tangled web

27
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,240
Speaker 1: of a drug gang, a politician who turned up dead

28
00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,560
Speaker 1: with his male lover in his bed, a corrupt detective

29
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,040
Speaker 1: who was in on the drug dealing as well and

30
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: who ended up framing you, Stefan not to mention a

31
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,120
Speaker 1: false confession, an incentivized witness who we know now was

32
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 1: mentally ill and who lied through his teeth and changed

33
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 1: his story multiple times, a mafia kingpin in case all

34
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,400
Speaker 1: that other stuff wasn't enough for you, And finally, a

35
00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 1: good judge who ironically was named Hate. I mean you

36
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,640
Speaker 1: can't even make this stuff up. And our featured guest

37
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 1: today is Stefan Morant, who lived through this nightmare. So Stefan,

38
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 1: welcome to the show.

39
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 2: Thank you.

40
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,920
Speaker 1: So let's go back to the beginning. I mean, this

41
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:44,360
Speaker 1: is a Connecticut story and the backs are that on

42
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,760
Speaker 1: October eleventh, nineteen ninety, former New Haven alderman named Ricardo

43
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 1: Turner and his lover Lamont Fields, were shot and killed

44
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,799
Speaker 1: in their bed, and that's where our story starts. So

45
00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety, you were a kid.

46
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 2: You were one about, yes.

47
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 1: And you were you know, you were hustling right, yes,

48
00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,359
Speaker 1: but you weren't killing anybody, absolutely not, and you certainly

49
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,080
Speaker 1: weren't killing Ricardo Turner and Lamont Fields did. Okay, So

50
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 1: how does this start? Because you ended up getting into

51
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,800
Speaker 1: the crosshairs of a I want to say corrupt detective.

52
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 1: I mean corrupt would be too light of a word

53
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,880
Speaker 1: for this guy, Rauci. I mean you weren't his only victim.

54
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,760
Speaker 1: There were tons. Yes, He's sort of like a character

55
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 1: along the lines of that guy out in Brooklyn who

56
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 1: framed so many of those people. Stefan set the stage

57
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,880
Speaker 1: for us as to this crazy cast of characters in

58
00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,360
Speaker 1: the New Haven drug market at the time that this

59
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 1: double murder went down, because this was a culmination of

60
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 1: a lot of other factors. So can you give us

61
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:48,000
Speaker 1: an overview.

62
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,440
Speaker 3: There was a lot of different what you may call,

63
00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 3: I guess, organizations, guys selling on different blocks. I was

64
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 3: working with Scott and he was getting drugs from this

65
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 3: guy by the name of Frank Perisi from out of

66
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,520
Speaker 3: the Fame Heights area. That's who Detective Rochet used to

67
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,480
Speaker 3: work for. I think the reason why me and Scott

68
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 3: got framed is because Frank was about to go to prison.

69
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,880
Speaker 3: I think he was sentenced to eighteen years. So he

70
00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,920
Speaker 3: wanted somebody to take over the organization and he picked

71
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 3: Scott to take over the organization, and Scott wanted to

72
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 3: get out of the drug trade. So Scott said that

73
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 3: he would not do it, and next thing you know,

74
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:23,520
Speaker 3: me and Scott are being framed for murder.

75
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,359
Speaker 1: So how did this cross your consciousness? When did you

76
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,560
Speaker 1: first become entangled in it?

77
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 2: As a young man, I was living with my mother

78
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 2: at the time.

79
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 3: I happened to call my mother in between seven thirty

80
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 3: and eight o'clock, me and a couple all of the

81
00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,040
Speaker 3: guys whatever he was about to go to a script club.

82
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:41,480
Speaker 3: So I just just calling her not to tell I

83
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:42,520
Speaker 3: was going to script club.

84
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 1: But you just mom, I'm going to strip club.

85
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,719
Speaker 3: We're not doing that. So she tells me that someone

86
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,000
Speaker 3: came by. It was a detective, a couple of them.

87
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,359
Speaker 3: So she said they wanted me to call, So I

88
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,480
Speaker 3: was like, I have no problem with calling them, so

89
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 3: she gave me the number. It happened to be Detective Rachi,

90
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 3: and I think it was the technic was Sweeney at

91
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 3: the time, which came in the case later on, and uh,

92
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,919
Speaker 3: just probably by the reason why I'm sending before you

93
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,839
Speaker 3: to day because of Detective Sweeney. That's another part of

94
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,000
Speaker 3: the story. But so I happened to call him. He's

95
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 3: asking me could I meet him somewhere, and I said,

96
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 3: not a problem. So my court defended mister Lewis and

97
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 3: I and another gentleman. We jumped into a vehicle. He

98
00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 3: dropped me off at a local gas station around the

99
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,839
Speaker 3: corner from my mother's home, and he started asking me questions.

100
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,160
Speaker 3: I was hesitating by answering anything because I didn't know

101
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 3: what was going on. He opened the back door and

102
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,240
Speaker 3: he thrust me in. That was the beginning of a

103
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,719
Speaker 3: nightmare of my life. They took me to the new

104
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,279
Speaker 3: police precinct, took me to the detective Burrough, held me

105
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:49,560
Speaker 3: there for hours at the time, brought out police reports, statements,

106
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,440
Speaker 3: those paper articles, and started asking me the questions about

107
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,360
Speaker 3: doing or anything about the double homicide.

108
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:55,520
Speaker 2: I said, I did not.

109
00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,240
Speaker 1: Had you even heard about it in the neighborhood or anything?

110
00:05:58,680 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 3: No?

111
00:05:58,839 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 2: I did not.

112
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 1: So this is taking you totally off guard. And you

113
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:03,680
Speaker 1: didn't have a lawyer.

114
00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 2: No I did not.

115
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 1: Did you read you your rights because you weren't a

116
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:07,360
Speaker 1: suspect yet?

117
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,680
Speaker 3: Or no, I was a suspect, Like I said. We

118
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,960
Speaker 3: were at the house drinking and smoking, so we was

119
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,359
Speaker 3: a little little nice, you know, before going to the

120
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,400
Speaker 3: script club. Instead of spending all the money in the

121
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 3: script club, we just to get high before. So we

122
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 3: were in the police precinct for hours at the time.

123
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,880
Speaker 3: They start threatening me with talking about, oh, you could

124
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,279
Speaker 3: get the death penalty, we'll put you in the mad

125
00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 3: dollar bond. So I'm looking around, like in a room

126
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 3: such as this, one small little room, you know, how

127
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,000
Speaker 3: do I get out of here? Like if you help us,

128
00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,880
Speaker 3: we'll help you. We don't want you anyway, we want Lewis.

129
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,359
Speaker 1: So and Lewis was Scott Lewis?

130
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:45,839
Speaker 2: Correct, Scott Lewis.

131
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:50,000
Speaker 1: Was your friend, my brother, your brother not from another mother,

132
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,800
Speaker 1: from another Okay, so, and he had not been picked

133
00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:53,160
Speaker 1: up yet.

134
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 2: No, he wasn't right.

135
00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 1: So you're in there by yourself correct. Obviously a scary

136
00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,520
Speaker 1: situation going on, and plus you were already a little

137
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,960
Speaker 1: impair in the first place. I couldn't have helped, although

138
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,359
Speaker 1: I imagine this would kill your buzz real quick, yes, but

139
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 1: still you didn't have all your wits about you. I mean, listen,

140
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,680
Speaker 1: I would like to go back in time to that

141
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,760
Speaker 1: day and shake you by the collar and go, dude,

142
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 1: call a lawyer, like, tell them you want a lawyer.

143
00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:19,760
Speaker 1: That's all you had to do, and the question would

144
00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,440
Speaker 1: have had to stop. But you didn't know that, because

145
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,960
Speaker 1: most people don't know. I was one of the reasons

146
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 1: why we do the show, because we wanted to tell

147
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,280
Speaker 1: people what to do if they got for a bid

148
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 1: of end up in a situation like yours. So this

149
00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,320
Speaker 1: questioning goes on and on and on. You don't even know.

150
00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 1: You probably have no sense of time at this point.

151
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,240
Speaker 1: Did you have a watch or anything?

152
00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 3: No, I was, we probably got there, Like I said,

153
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 3: it was like eight I didn't get out of there

154
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 3: until like probably like five six hours later. After they

155
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,800
Speaker 3: gave me all this information. It was recording me, of course,

156
00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 3: and it kept stopping the tap. That's not how we

157
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 3: want it. Need you to write the statement correctly stopping

158
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,080
Speaker 3: the tate starting stopping the tap. After they fied me

159
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,480
Speaker 3: all this information, so I said, I felt in my

160
00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:58,440
Speaker 3: best interest on.

161
00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,720
Speaker 2: The way I'm gonna get out of here is to

162
00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 2: do what they want me to do.

163
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 3: Because the key thing for me was what they said

164
00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,440
Speaker 3: was you, after you write this, you got to come back.

165
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,680
Speaker 3: So now I see a way out. I didn't see

166
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,240
Speaker 3: a way out before because they wanted to give me

167
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:12,680
Speaker 3: a way out. I was like, listen, I don't know

168
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 3: anything about the crime. I need to leave here and

169
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,920
Speaker 3: let me go, and they was not letting me go, which.

170
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 1: Is actually against the law as well. They had to

171
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 1: let you go if you have to be let go, right,

172
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 1: I mean, considering they were willing to break so many

173
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,080
Speaker 1: other rules, they certainly weren't going to abide by that

174
00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,560
Speaker 1: one either. So so you give a statement, yes, which

175
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,360
Speaker 1: is a statement that they had basically fed you, correct,

176
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,480
Speaker 1: giving details of the crime that you had no idea about. Correct,

177
00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,720
Speaker 1: but that we're accurate presumably if they fed them to you. Yes,

178
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 1: and then of course stopping and starting the tape. I mean,

179
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,840
Speaker 1: that's right out of a TV show as well. An

180
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,559
Speaker 1: amateur scriptwriter would put that in there, you know. And

181
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,040
Speaker 1: so they end up getting what they want. Did they

182
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 1: then arrest you or did they send you home?

183
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,439
Speaker 2: No, they'd actually let me go.

184
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:53,440
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

185
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:53,959
Speaker 2: They let me.

186
00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 3: They told me to come back because I just signed

187
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,840
Speaker 3: a statement. So my godmother name is Emma Jones. She

188
00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 3: was a lawyer at the time, and I immediately went

189
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,079
Speaker 3: to her home. When I got there, it was like

190
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,720
Speaker 3: three four in the morning, she looked at me and

191
00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,199
Speaker 3: I looked at her and I told her where I

192
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,360
Speaker 3: was coming from. And she said, you did not say

193
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 3: anything right, And I just put my head down and

194
00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,400
Speaker 3: she said, first thing in the morning, we're going to

195
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:22,880
Speaker 3: get representation. And my cousin, Detective Pontu was my father's

196
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,920
Speaker 3: first cousin. He called my mother and he knew because

197
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,680
Speaker 3: at the time of the crime, when it actually happened,

198
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,679
Speaker 3: I wasn't even living here. I was living in South Carolina.

199
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,040
Speaker 3: Actually going back and forth from South Carolina North Carolina.

200
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,840
Speaker 3: So he was aware that I didn't live here at

201
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,440
Speaker 3: the time, so he called my mother. I didn't know

202
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 3: where we camp meant, so he's like, do you have

203
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,760
Speaker 3: a statement down here? Tell Stephan come down here. We

204
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,720
Speaker 3: can't the statement. We know that he wasn't here. He

205
00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,679
Speaker 3: knew he wasn't here, So I went back to the

206
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 3: detective place with my mother. A detective came out and

207
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 3: he was brought the statement off for me to sign it.

208
00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,800
Speaker 3: I heard over the dispatch because I actually was supposed

209
00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 3: to meet my cousin over there, which was Detective Pontu,

210
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 3: and it was disregard. We got this. So the detective

211
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:06,920
Speaker 3: came out, He's like, you have to sign this. So

212
00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,600
Speaker 3: I'm not signing anything. I said, that's bullshit. I'm not

213
00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,920
Speaker 3: signing it. I'm not signing it because it's a lie,

214
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,679
Speaker 3: it's false information, it's not true. He's like, what if

215
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,640
Speaker 3: you don't sign this, we could charge your conspiracy, and

216
00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 3: I mean my mother just she grabbed a pocketbook and

217
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:24,360
Speaker 3: we walk out the door.

218
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So this is a bizarre story in a number

219
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 1: of levels. One is that they let you go in

220
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,480
Speaker 1: the first place, instead of making you sign a statement

221
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 1: right after you had falsely confessed that. I've never heard

222
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: that one before. There must have been some reason for it,

223
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,520
Speaker 1: but I don't know what it was. By now, this

224
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:43,600
Speaker 1: is the next day.

225
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,800
Speaker 2: Talking about going back to the police station. It was

226
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:46,640
Speaker 2: a couple of days later.

227
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 1: Now by now you knew the details of the crime.

228
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,040
Speaker 1: You knew this was a double murder, you know, super

229
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 1: serious situation, probably getting extra attention because of the fact

230
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 1: that one of the dead guys, Ricardo Turner, was a

231
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 1: former alderman, right, so there was probably to solve this crime.

232
00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,199
Speaker 1: So now, in these three days that had passed, did

233
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,080
Speaker 1: you touch base with Scott Lewis? Did you let him

234
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:07,719
Speaker 1: know what's going on?

235
00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:08,040
Speaker 2: Yes?

236
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,600
Speaker 3: I called him actually probably the next day, and I

237
00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,520
Speaker 3: told him about it. So he actually called the police

238
00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,880
Speaker 3: precinct and called the detective himself and went down there

239
00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,760
Speaker 3: and spoke to him. I don't know what the details

240
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,720
Speaker 3: of the conversation were, but he went down there himself.

241
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,079
Speaker 1: So what happens next? How does it progress from here

242
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,320
Speaker 1: to where you end up getting convicted and serving almost

243
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:32,400
Speaker 1: half your life in prison?

244
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:33,199
Speaker 2: Oh?

245
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 3: So what was I doing prior to being convicted m

246
00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,560
Speaker 3: So after leaving the police precinct, I went on with

247
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 3: my life. I was I was working. I was working

248
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,800
Speaker 3: at a piece to place, being a delivery guy. And

249
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,439
Speaker 3: the detective Rochet, he's like, used to follow me everywhere.

250
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 3: I moved back and forth, you know, from North Carolina,

251
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,120
Speaker 3: South Carolina. I moved back down there with me and

252
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 3: my kid's mother. I formally got arrested two years later,

253
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,839
Speaker 3: so this is nineteen ninety and the crime happened. I

254
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 3: got arrested her in February nineteen ninety two. My kid's mother,

255
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,439
Speaker 3: Christie Soben, she was pregnant with my sons and we

256
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 3: were actually living a favor in North Carolina. Her mother

257
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,040
Speaker 3: and father came to pick her up in December of

258
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,560
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety one. She was complaining because I was, of

259
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,720
Speaker 3: course still in the drug trade. I was going back

260
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,319
Speaker 3: and forth from North Carolina South Carolina, trying to make

261
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,040
Speaker 3: ends meet selling a little bit of drugs. So I

262
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,000
Speaker 3: called her in nineteen ninety two. It happened to be February, right.

263
00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,839
Speaker 3: My sons was born in Valentine's Day, twins. One of

264
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,880
Speaker 3: the great yeah, one of the greatest days of my life.

265
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,640
Speaker 3: Of course, It was definitely a blessing. I'm like, I

266
00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,520
Speaker 3: got to get back to Connecticut right, didn't have no warrant,

267
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 3: didn't have no nothing. The last time I heard from

268
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,880
Speaker 3: the detectives when I seen him follow me around in

269
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 3: the piece of place, in other various places like nightclubs

270
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. So I didn't see him anymore

271
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,040
Speaker 3: because I went back down south. So when I get

272
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,360
Speaker 3: here at my mother's home, she lives in New Haven,

273
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 3: I happened to see a K car, you know, the

274
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 3: police detective car. I just knew, you know, what the

275
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 3: detective car looks like. So I seen him and I

276
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,840
Speaker 3: just went the opposite way. So I happened to park

277
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,880
Speaker 3: on a car in the communal lot in Derby, Connecticut,

278
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 3: and me and my friend name his name is Rob.

279
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 3: After seeing my boys, I was on my way going

280
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,480
Speaker 3: back to South Carolina. So I was going to pick

281
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,199
Speaker 3: my car up at the communal lot, and I seen

282
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,240
Speaker 3: my left tire was flat and looked crazy.

283
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,080
Speaker 2: I just felt something.

284
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,439
Speaker 3: And then I seen a guy like in a Seville

285
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,720
Speaker 3: with a newspaper up on his face, like nobody reads

286
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,200
Speaker 3: a newspaper like that. Something's not right. So anyway, I

287
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:42,679
Speaker 3: get out of the car. As soon as I get

288
00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,679
Speaker 3: out of the car, police come from everywhere. It's like

289
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 3: a scene out of a movie. My sons was in

290
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 3: the back, my name was in the back. I was

291
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 3: in the front. I got out the detectives. I was like,

292
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,560
Speaker 3: they asked me what was my name?

293
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 2: Myself?

294
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 3: Of course my name is Steffa Morandom. But I say, you, guys,

295
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:56,680
Speaker 3: I got kids in the car. Case you put your

296
00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,520
Speaker 3: guns down. It was like I was in control of

297
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,520
Speaker 3: the situation, but I wasn't because they put their guns down.

298
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 3: I just told her my name and they were like, oh,

299
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,880
Speaker 3: you have an arrestaurant for doublehomicide. I'm like, what now,

300
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,079
Speaker 3: I'm arrested for dumb ohomicide. Like I believe if I

301
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,240
Speaker 3: would have never came back to Connecticut because what they

302
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 3: was doing they was about to take Scott to trial.

303
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 3: So what they did was rest me so they could

304
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,200
Speaker 3: put pressure on me so I could come and testify.

305
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,720
Speaker 2: Against mister Lewis. And that's just not how you say.

306
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,400
Speaker 3: They try to put division between the both of us,

307
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,880
Speaker 3: and it didn't work. We both ended up, of course,

308
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 3: getting convicted. I never testified on them because I'm not

309
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 3: testifying to a lie, but I ended up getting arrested

310
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 3: that day. Detective Rotch, she was the detective that came

311
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,320
Speaker 3: him and another detective and picked me up from the

312
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,120
Speaker 3: Orange Precinct.

313
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 2: I said, hey, come this bull crap again. So he's like, oh, all.

314
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,120
Speaker 3: We want you to do is tell us that mister

315
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 3: Lewis committed this crime. You could go home, this warrant

316
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 3: could go away. I'm like, listen, man, what's my bond?

317
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,400
Speaker 3: I just need to know my bond, That's all I

318
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 3: wanna know. I ended up giving my phone call. I

319
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,400
Speaker 3: called my mother and she wasn't home, so I called

320
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 3: my aunt. Told my aunt about it, and she called

321
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,680
Speaker 3: my mother let her know, and I was in jail

322
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,960
Speaker 3: for like a few months, and then my mother she

323
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 3: bonded me out. She put her home up, and I

324
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,880
Speaker 3: stayed out for an additional two years, and then I

325
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,600
Speaker 3: went to trial in nineteen ninety four.

326
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 1: The whole thing is really surreal. I mean for a

327
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,960
Speaker 1: lot of reasons, but also because of in particular because

328
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,560
Speaker 1: of the elapsed time right because I feel like you're

329
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,920
Speaker 1: listening to you talking about it now, it seems like

330
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,680
Speaker 1: it was kind of in the tail life. You were

331
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,800
Speaker 1: going all your life. You're raising your family, trying to

332
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: make m's meat, doing whatever you can, a little of this,

333
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,240
Speaker 1: a little legitimate stuff, some other stuff. But you weren't

334
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 1: killing anybody. You weren't even hurting anybody. They had another

335
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 1: sort of nefarious weapon in their arsenal, which was this

336
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 1: another name that could only come out of a fictional account, right,

337
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 1: this guy Ovill Ruiz like Ovill, are you kidding me

338
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 1: with this name? Now? Orville Oval like evil and Oval.

339
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 1: Ruiz gave well, let's call it a coerced eyewitness account.

340
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,560
Speaker 1: He was incentivized, he was coerced. They were using the

341
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 1: carrot and a stick. He was promised leniency, and according

342
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 1: to Ruiz, he came up with this story. I imagine

343
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 1: the first time you heard about this was a trial.

344
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,080
Speaker 1: Did you know this Ruiz guy?

345
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 3: Yes, I knew of them well when we sold drugs.

346
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 3: He used to sell drugs. We used to sell drugs. Yes,

347
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 3: we wasn't the best of friends, but I know who

348
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 3: he was.

349
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,280
Speaker 1: So Ruiz came up with a pretty interesting story. He

350
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 1: said that this alderman, the former alderman, Ricardo Turner, was

351
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 1: storing drugs and money for Louis, your co defender, for

352
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,120
Speaker 1: his operation in the second four apartment that he lived in,

353
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,920
Speaker 1: and that he also owed Lewis money. So, according to Oval,

354
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,160
Speaker 1: Ruiz I love saying that name over and over again.

355
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 1: On October tenth and eleventh, nineteen ninety. He claimed that

356
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 1: you and Lewis discussed the idea that Turner might take

357
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 1: the money and run, and therefore Ruiz rode with you

358
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 1: guys to turn his apartment await in the car while

359
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,960
Speaker 1: you Again this is his account, his false account, but

360
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,159
Speaker 1: his account, he claimed that, armed with a three p

361
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,359
Speaker 1: fifty seven and a thirty eight, that you guys forced

362
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,440
Speaker 1: your way into Turner's apartment, murdered he and Fields in

363
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 1: their bed, and took the money and the coke got

364
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,719
Speaker 1: in the getaway car. Now, this would all be a

365
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: little bit more believable if not for the fact that

366
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,159
Speaker 1: he was promised leniency if he admitted to being the

367
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 1: getaway driver. And you know, he probably didn't even come

368
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,399
Speaker 1: up with this story. They probably came up with it

369
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:33,080
Speaker 1: and gave it to him.

370
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 3: But whatever, Well, you know, at the time I'm be

371
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 3: going to trial this young kid would a background in

372
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,159
Speaker 3: mental health issues. My lawyer at the time subpoena in

373
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 3: his records, and this guy was talking about he see

374
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,919
Speaker 3: red bean, he see different visions. He's on halladall and

375
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 3: various drugs for his mental health. So he was not

376
00:17:54,880 --> 00:18:01,240
Speaker 3: only thrown and thrusted and given leniency for given false testimony,

377
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 3: but he also was a mental health patient. You know,

378
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,440
Speaker 3: I don't even understand how the jury believed this guy.

379
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,639
Speaker 1: So now they had you, guys, they had this guy

380
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,639
Speaker 1: that had a false confession. You had no shot at trial,

381
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,720
Speaker 1: absolutely not. So you go to trial. You tried separately

382
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:17,359
Speaker 1: from Lewis.

383
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 3: Yes, I had four counts. First, I have five counts,

384
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 3: one count of conspiracy. They dropped that at the beginning

385
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,080
Speaker 3: of the trial. Two council aid into benin and two

386
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 3: concert felony murder.

387
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,159
Speaker 1: So when the jury came back in, did you have

388
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,760
Speaker 1: any hope that they would come to the right answer?

389
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: He still believed. Yes, even after everything that happened, you

390
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,160
Speaker 1: still believed the justice were going out.

391
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 2: Of course I did have hope because I didn't do it.

392
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,920
Speaker 1: So, okay, so take us to that moment. So the

393
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,120
Speaker 1: jury comes in and they read the charges in order,

394
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,719
Speaker 1: right right, So you've already had the one charge dropped.

395
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 1: Now you have the first two charges and they go

396
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 1: not guilty, right, So after that second not guilty, I'm like,

397
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm going home, Yes, I mean, and then

398
00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 1: they drop a bomb on you.

399
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 3: And then a literal almost fell over. Literally I rocked back.

400
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 3: I had to catch myself, and then I looked at

401
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:12,440
Speaker 3: the Jerry person. He shook his head like, yeah, we

402
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,280
Speaker 3: convicted you, and then he read it off again and

403
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,400
Speaker 3: looked in his eyes again, and then he put his

404
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:20,880
Speaker 3: head down.

405
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company,

406
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 1: and by Accenture, a global professional services company with leading

407
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 1: capabilities in digital, cloud and security. Working to reform the

408
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,200
Speaker 1: criminal justice system is a key pillar of the AIG

409
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 1: pro Bono Program, which provides free legal services and other

410
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 1: support to many nonprofit organizations and individuals most in need.

411
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 1: As part of Accentsure's commitment to racial and civil justice.

412
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 1: Accenture's Legal Access Program provides pro bono legal services in

413
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: partnership with more than forty organizations, bringing meaningful change to

414
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: people and communities worldwide.

415
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,640
Speaker 3: The prosecutor, which is he was just as corrupt as

416
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 3: the detective in my eyes, my sons again, they was twins.

417
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 3: They were two years old at the time, and I

418
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,679
Speaker 3: didn't see my sons in a while, you know, so

419
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 3: I didn't bring me to court. I didn't even know

420
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 3: I was going to court. The prosecutor rise a fruit basket.

421
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 3: He puts it on the table, So my mother's there.

422
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,159
Speaker 3: I didn't know my mother's gonna be there, and my

423
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 3: sons are there. So he says to me, missed this.

424
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 3: Of course kind of questions and of course I missed

425
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 3: my kids, he says, So what you gonna do about it?

426
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 3: I said, listen, I told you before. I don't know

427
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,400
Speaker 3: nothing about this. I'm the same way. I'm looking at

428
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 3: my son's right here. Mister Lewis has kids as well.

429
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,120
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna just take myself and say, okay, I'm

430
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 3: gonna lie on the man to take myself out of prison,

431
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: to put him in prison.

432
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 2: Possibly, I can't do that. I just can't do that.

433
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 1: Did he actually tell you that he was willing to

434
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: give you a deal if you would testify against Lewis?

435
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: Or he would just.

436
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 2: Assume that that's what he told me.

437
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: And what was the deal they offered you?

438
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 3: He said we would work it out. He didn't tell me, well,

439
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,120
Speaker 3: I'm gonna take thirty five. I got seventy years now

440
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 3: thirty five years running wild, which means do this thirty

441
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 3: five years and start all over again. So what can

442
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: you offer him? You can't offer me, No, you couldn't.

443
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 3: He couldn't have offered me a day because I'm not

444
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 3: gonna sit here and lie on the man for something

445
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 3: that I didn't do and he didn't do.

446
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 2: It's just not gonna happen.

447
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: Then that speaks to your character too, because I think

448
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 1: there's you know, no again, no one knows how you

449
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: would hell anyone would deal with a situation like the

450
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 1: one that you were in. But you handled it, I

451
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: mean with courage, and you know you did the right

452
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: thing at extreme cost to yourself. So now you're sentenced

453
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: to seventy years and you get taken to prison. One

454
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 1: of the reasons I do this work and I'm so

455
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 1: obsessed and committed to it, have been for my whole

456
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: adult life and will be for the rest of my

457
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: adult life, however long that may be, is because of

458
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: people like you. Honestly in awe that people like yourself

459
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: can go through what you went through and come out

460
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: with this and I picked it up. When we've met

461
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: before is one of the reasons I want to have

462
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: you on the show, because you're such a positive guy,

463
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: and you're such a sort of I mean to meet you.

464
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: No one would ever know that you had been through

465
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: anything like this, much less this totally insane ordeal. So

466
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: how did you survive prison? Was it as bad as

467
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: what you were expecting? Was it as bad as what

468
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: people think it is?

469
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 2: Well?

470
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 3: For me, I have a Christian background, right, my grandmother,

471
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 3: she just was a faith driven woman. My mother, you know,

472
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 3: my father used to take me to church all the time. Actually,

473
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: the day I got convicted, June eighth, that night when

474
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 3: they threw me, told me they reminded me, I was

475
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 3: like like a whole building on top of me, like

476
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 3: and I didn't know how I was gonna get it

477
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,719
Speaker 3: off of me. So they put me in a bullpen

478
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,880
Speaker 3: and there was nobody down there, and I'm looking around

479
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 3: and I had a suit on so and the tie.

480
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: So I shifted my tie from the left to the right,

481
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 3: and I'm like, yo, how did I get here? How

482
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 3: did this happen to me? So I was about to cry,

483
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 3: of course, I'm like and so literally a voice came

484
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 3: over me and said son you're gonna be all right,

485
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 3: you know. I got down on my knees in that

486
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 3: bullpenner and I prayed, and that was my peace.

487
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 2: That was my sanctuary, that was my sanity. That's what

488
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: brought me through.

489
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 3: Just not my faith alone, but my family was there

490
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 3: for me, and they're still there for me. My big

491
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 3: brother Frank, my brother Julian, he passed away to Lupis

492
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: a year before I came home. He was my great

493
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 3: to support, my brother le End and my mother Linda,

494
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 3: or host the family and friends. I mean, you know,

495
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: it's crazy in prison because some people don't even know

496
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,719
Speaker 3: what the visiting room look like. I just had a

497
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 3: great support. My wife Rain sleep of snow. I'm telling you,

498
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 3: if it was six feet of snow and the roses clear,

499
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 3: she was there, you know, And that says a lot

500
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 3: for her, you know. But again, I had a lot

501
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 3: of family there for me. My family was there, they're

502
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 3: still there for me. And again my faith kept me whole.

503
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: You know.

504
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 3: I actually go to school right now, to a Bible

505
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 3: institute to become a minister. It's not easy. I go

506
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 3: through a lot of ups and downs because of the incarceration.

507
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: I call it today because of they thrust me into

508
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 3: a cage. I'm that dog that's running away from the cage,

509
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 3: never to go back to that cage again. I want

510
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: to go back there, but I want to go back

511
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 3: there for the right reasons, as far as if I

512
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 3: could inspire and encourage somebody to be like, listen, there

513
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 3: is hope. The's guys that see me today. When I

514
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 3: was actually incarcerated, well I don't call it incarcerated again,

515
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: when I was thrusting into that cage, they just literally

516
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: like start crying, like yo, yo, you believed like you

517
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 3: believed you was coming home when you was going home

518
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 3: in you're here. Sometimes of course it gets rough sometime,

519
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 3: you know, But what do you do with the situation

520
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: when it happens to you? Do you sit down weeping crowd?

521
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 3: Do you get up and stand tall? Because that's what

522
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: they want you to do. They want you to be like, Okay,

523
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 3: we're gonna take this person, thrust them in a cage,

524
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: and we want them to become an animal.

525
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 2: I did the total opposite.

526
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: I mean, how did you get out? I mean, these

527
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: are the things I want to get to here because

528
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 1: you were there for twenty years twenty one twenty one

529
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: years in maximum security. Obviously it's felling the murder.

530
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 3: Yes, I believe that my gud made away, you know.

531
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: I mean, of course legal things took place, but people

532
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 3: came back. Like I mentioned to you earlier to text

533
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 3: the Sweeney, he was a great part in this case.

534
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: He came back after he was in Bosnia in nineteen

535
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 3: ninety eight nineteen ninety nine, he happened to see my case.

536
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: I was going back for a petition for new trial,

537
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 3: and I had the lawyer by the name of Michael

538
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 3: Fitzpatrick at the time, and he said, I got some

539
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 3: good evidence that's coming, and that was It took another

540
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine to twenty fifteen, sixteen more years for

541
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 3: the court to even listen to him.

542
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 2: And this is a supervisor of Detective Rocchi.

543
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 3: That's telling you that the two men that you have

544
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 3: in prison, if you're going by the information that was

545
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 3: gathered by Detective Rocchi and that informat that you had

546
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 3: that testified in these guys, absolutely not I Tective Swing

547
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: he came to testify to that.

548
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: That's so crazy. I'm getting the chills now thinking about it,

549
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: because here you have a senior official in law enforcement

550
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: who is coming forward with no motivation. What could his

551
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: motivation possibly be other than the truth? And they're going, yeah,

552
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: we're good, like yeah, I mean, he's He's one of

553
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: the heroes in this.

554
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: Story right, without a doubt.

555
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 1: Scott Lewis wrote a letter to the FBI as well

556
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: about Rachi. They looked into it, and every time they

557
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: did they would find that things were not as he

558
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: said they were, but as you guys said they were.

559
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: They found that Rauchi not only framed you and Lewis,

560
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: but that he framed a number of other people. I

561
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: don't think we'll ever know how many, because we know

562
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: when these guys do it, like Scarcela and Brooklyn, they

563
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: just keep doing it and doing it and doing it

564
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: as long as they get away with it, which is

565
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: why it's so important that we tell these stories. And

566
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: they even brought him back Rouchi, they brought him back

567
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: to New Haven to question him, but they never charged him.

568
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: They ended up charging him with his ridiculous but they

569
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: charged him for misbuilding his overtime hours and assaulting his wife,

570
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: which is a serious crime in my view, and yet

571
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: he received two years probation. So he was dealing drugs,

572
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: framing people for murder assaulting his wife, and he gets

573
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: two years probation and you end up with seventy years

574
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: for a crime you didn't commit. Another hero in this story,

575
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: and it's interesting because it's a New Haven story. And

576
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: along comes a Yale law professor named Brett Dignam and

577
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: Richard Emmanuel and a whole bunch of law students right

578
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: coming in like the cavalry, all from Yale. Yes, and

579
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good group to have on your side

580
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: because at Yale they don't mess around. There's no question

581
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: that you have an incredible amount of brain power and

582
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: energy devoted to your case. How did they get involved?

583
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: How do they find out about it?

584
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 3: They got involved in Scott case actually two thousand and nine,

585
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 3: and Brett moved from she was a law professor at Yale,

586
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 3: and then she moved to Columbia. And then they just

587
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 3: the students. A lot of the students just went along

588
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: with her, or she just had some more Columbian students.

589
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 3: I'm not really sure of the whole procedure how it

590
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: went down, but they played a big role in this,

591
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: getting the conviction overturned.

592
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: And finally a good judge who ironically was named hate.

593
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: The judge Hate huh with a name but a loving guy.

594
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Judge Charles hate the US district Judge Charles hat Junior.

595
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: Your team want a ruling in front of judge that

596
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: the prosecution had failed to tell the defense and this

597
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: is heavy. Get ready that the key witness, ov Ruiz

598
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 1: had repeatedly denied having any knowledge of the murders. All

599
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: of a sudden he had a big memory recall after

600
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: he was offered a deal. But it's important to recognize

601
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: that he was at least initially telling the truth. Doesn't

602
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: excuse his behavior whatsoever, but it does highlight the lengths

603
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: that they were willing to go to to get a conviction.

604
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: And let us not forget that, of course, in your case,

605
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: like in so many other wrong for conviction cases, like

606
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: whoever it was that went and cold bloodedly gunned these

607
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: two guys down, whether it was one guy, two guys, woman,

608
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: we don't know who it was, right, I don't know

609
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: if you to this day know who it was.

610
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: I don't know who it is.

611
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 3: I mean, they have other suspects that D said they have,

612
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: but I don't know if they pushed forward to try

613
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: to arrest anybody. I mean, I don't wish nothing bad

614
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 3: on anybody, but whether it's one, ind visual, two or

615
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 3: three individuals still out there.

616
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: So now what about our public exactly?

617
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: Let's just say it's not unlikely that whoever was I

618
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: committed this crime went on to commit other terrible crimes

619
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: while you guys were serving the time for them. So

620
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: how did you end up getting out?

621
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: Actually, mister Lewis, he was released in February March of

622
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen on the bracelet. The judge hate ordered that

623
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 3: they release him within the ninety days I think of

624
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: after the conviction was overturned. Then they had to go

625
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: to the second Circuit court and then all the charges

626
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: was dropped. I think he got exonerated in twenty sixteen,

627
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 3: if I'm not mistaken. Unlike myself, mister Lewis had a

628
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 3: dream team and I had a team that wasn't fighting

629
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 3: for me at all. So pushed forward to a year later,

630
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 3: the attorney said he spoke with the district attorney and said, oh,

631
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 3: I think that I could talk to him, so talk

632
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: to him about what like, why now you not found

633
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 3: the motion for me to get out of prison because

634
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: you and mister Lewis cases there. I said, what you mean,

635
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: what do you mean different we went We just went

636
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: to trial differently. The evidence is the same. We just

637
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 3: went to trial at different times. I want to be

638
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 3: out of release from prison. I said, how long more

639
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: do you think this is gonna take? He said, I

640
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: might take another three years. What this man's out of prison?

641
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 3: You're telling me? I still got away to the additional

642
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 3: three years to be released from prison. He was like, yeah,

643
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 3: So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go talk

644
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 3: cause I'm friends with the district attorney. So I'm gonna

645
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: go down there and see if he'd just say, see

646
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 3: what could happen. I think that was a Tuesday. So

647
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 3: he came back the very next day. He's like, oh,

648
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 3: I got good news from you going home. The district

649
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 3: attorney said, we'd give you time served, but you have

650
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 3: the cop out. I'm thinking now, my little brother, he

651
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 3: just passed away. Lupis. I lost my grandfather. I lost

652
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 3: my father, I lost the host of a lot of friends.

653
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: My mother's getting older, my children are older. You know

654
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: they Dad, when you're coming home. I have a wife

655
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 3: now that married me for I don't know why in

656
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: prison in two thousand and nine.

657
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: What do I do. I'm between a rock and the harbor.

658
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: Place do I sit here and say, listen, I want

659
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: to fight for my name to be clear for another

660
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 3: three years. There's nothing guaranteed in the judicial system. They

661
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 3: already failed me once, So what do I do. I've

662
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: always heard that if you can fight better from the

663
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 3: outside than the inside. I need to get out. I

664
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: need to get out of here. So I went with

665
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 3: the terms in the agreement. I mean ignorant, of course,

666
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: of the repercussions of still fighting for my conviction. Because

667
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: I still have a conviction. Mister Lowisside, I told you

668
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: a couple of minutes ago, was exonerated, same evidence, just

669
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: different trial.

670
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 2: He's exonerated. I'm struggling. You know, what do you do?

671
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 3: You know I got to survive, though, you know, I'm

672
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: thankful that I'm able to be able to stand on

673
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 3: my two feet. I'm able to go to a job

674
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 3: and to go and make a difference. I don't know

675
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 3: if you know, but I work at a halfway house.

676
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 3: You know, it's a part of the frictional facility. Like

677
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: my grandmother was a caregiver. So I guess I'm following

678
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 3: the footsteps of her. I also just took on another

679
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 3: job working with the mental health I work at health

680
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: for healthcare.

681
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: Now.

682
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: It's not a lot of money, but it's getting me

683
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: and my wife by me and my lawyer. Right now,

684
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 3: we're trying to put together a pardon to try to

685
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 3: see if that the state of Connecticut will pardon me

686
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: and use circumstances because I can't get jobs. It's pay

687
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: as well, because I have a conviction of my record.

688
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: You know, I'm actually like getting half the pay, you know,

689
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: for somebody didn't do and I'm still suffering.

690
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'd be like, yo, why, But then at the

691
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: end of the day, why not.

692
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: I'm not the first person that happened to them, won't

693
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: be the last person that happens too.

694
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: So, Stefan, last time we spoke, you were still fighting

695
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: for your innecens to be recognized. You were out here

696
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: struggling to get by on what jobs you could get

697
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: with that murder conviction hanging over your head until you

698
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: and your attorney, Ken Rosenthalv. Were finally able to get

699
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: a hearing in July of twenty twenty one, just a

700
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: short time ago, for an absolute pardon, which would finally

701
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: expunge your record of having ever been convicted of a crime,

702
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: and you finally received your absolute parton certificate just a

703
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: few months later. When you found out, what was that moment,

704
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: Like who.

705
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 3: A bunch of bricks? Everything just fell off my shoulders.

706
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 3: It was like, I'm free, you know. It was like

707
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 3: for a long time, I've been accused of something that

708
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: I did not do, and now it felt like our release.

709
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,720
Speaker 3: You know, I'm free. I mean, I'm finally free. Words

710
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 3: can't even sum it up right now. I'm ready to

711
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 3: just to tear up. I think I was telling you

712
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 3: earlier this year that they called me in for Jerry duty.

713
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 1: Wait, so they called you? Imagine that rashly minted Axonnerie, right, Jerry,

714
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: they called you for Jerry duty. Than really kind of

715
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: poetic about that.

716
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: The same court that convicted me was calling me on

717
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: for jury duty. It didn't pick me for the jury,

718
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 3: but they called me in for jury duty. I felt,

719
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 3: I felt honored, I felt like a human being. I

720
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 3: felt a sense of release, even though I probably couldn't

721
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 3: serve in the jury because I was still a convicted

722
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 3: felon at the time, but it would just an honor

723
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: for the jury pool to even call me.

724
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't imagine. And let's face it, most people

725
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: do everything they can to avoid jury duty, which I'm

726
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: going to talk directly to our audience here. Please take

727
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,760
Speaker 1: what you've learned here and serve on a jury every

728
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: chance you get. Okay, it is an honor and it

729
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: is a duty, and it is an opportunity for each

730
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 1: of us to help prevent what happened to step On

731
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: and to every other one of the axguneries that we've

732
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: covered in these twelve seasons of wrongful conviction. We have

733
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: the opportunity to prevent that from happening to other people.

734
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: But it starts with serving on a jury. So yeah,

735
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: I can see how. You know, after being exiled for

736
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: the rest of society, even jury duty can feel like

737
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: a sort of a warm welcome, like almost like a blessing.

738
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 1: And you deserve so much more than that. I mean,

739
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: now you're going to be eligible for compensation, which is great,

740
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: but no amount of money will ever be able to

741
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: replace what they took from you two decades of time.

742
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: And speaking of that, I hope that on top of

743
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: the struggle of being out here living with a conviction

744
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: on your record having to check that box on job

745
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: applications working for jobs. I hope that you've been able

746
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: to make up for lost time with your loved ones.

747
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 3: Well, um fortunate and it's been blessed that me and

748
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 3: my wife, Kimberly Moran purchased a home. Great woman, she's

749
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: my angel, she is a rid died She's somebody that

750
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: I hold at a high regard. That man, I'm getting

751
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 3: tongue twisted right now to stinking who would do that?

752
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 3: I mean, who would just come into somebody's life and

753
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 3: just believe in the innocence. She believed in me. She

754
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 3: believed that I was innocent. Other than that, she says,

755
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 3: she would never have stayed. She became my wife in

756
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 3: two thousand and nine while in prison. Between me and her,

757
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 3: we have seven children, Twiler, Stefan, Mia, Jayla, Prince Christian

758
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 3: and Julian. We have grandchildren now, Steph On the third, Thailand, Marquise, Madison,

759
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:25,839
Speaker 3: Demi and Juliana.

760
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: And just knowing that.

761
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 3: I wasn't here for my children, but thank God, I'm

762
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: here for my grandchildren. Hope that we could develop a

763
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 3: relationship that a man, It's hard because they have a life.

764
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 3: We have a life. Hopefully it gets better. I want

765
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 3: to be there more because the relationship is not what

766
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: it should be. I mean, my children tell me every

767
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 3: time they thought that it would be different, they thought

768
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 3: it would make us closer when you came home. My

769
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 3: daughter always says that she spoke to me seemed like

770
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 3: more when I was able to call her fro them

771
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 3: fifteen minutes, and that's to me. Is sad for me

772
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: to just hear that from her, I mean, and I

773
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: just pray that one day that we all could just

774
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 3: find time for one another. Because now, again you heard

775
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 3: me earlier, I work for a job, so it's like

776
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 3: I'm always trying to stay busy, stay busy, so I'm

777
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: always tagged with a place that I am, so they

778
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 3: can never do that.

779
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 2: To me again.

780
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, step On, and it's powerful to hear

781
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: you say it, But you're not the first guy I've

782
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 1: heard say that or something like it. I mean, some

783
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: guys will say that they will get receipts anywhere they can,

784
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: every time they can get a receipt for pack of

785
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: gum anything.

786
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 3: I just looked at my drawer. My drawers full uped

787
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 3: me everywhere I go. You want to receive. Yeah, I

788
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 3: need that timestep absolutely location. Like on my phone, I put, yeah,

789
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 3: do you want people to know you?

790
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

791
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 3: Location, And that's sad because you want a private life,

792
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 3: but you can't have a private life because you're afraid

793
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 3: that something like this can happen to you again.

794
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that is a sad part of reality.

795
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: And you know, it's a continuing toll of the damage

796
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: that they did. But I got to say, everyone on

797
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: the Wrongful Conviction team is really like, so so happy

798
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: for you now and with your new clean record, I

799
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 1: guess all I could say is, may your reputation never

800
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: be smeared and impugned again. And now we come to

801
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the show, which of course is

802
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: called closing arguments. And with the incredible, magnificent news of

803
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: your absolute pardon, this will be a brand new closing

804
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: argument from the one we did with you back in

805
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Honestly, I can't wait to hear this one.

806
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,439
Speaker 1: So first I want to thank you again Stefan for

807
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 1: sharing with us your incredible courage, your journey, your spirit,

808
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: all of it. And now I'm going to turn my

809
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: microphone off, keep my headphones on, Kick back in my

810
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: chair and just listen to anything you feel you want

811
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 1: to say.

812
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: For me, arguments would be that to recognize my mother

813
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 3: been there from the beginning, it's still there now, my

814
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 3: little brother Leander, my big brother Frank, my wife of course,

815
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: my mother in law, father in law, my children I

816
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 3: named them earlier, for us to just have a better

817
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: relationship and building on this. I mean, this has caused

818
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 3: so much grief and so much pain in my life,

819
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 3: but I just want to make it better. But we

820
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 3: have to do it together, not you know, as individuals,

821
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 3: sometimes we get selfish and think that we got to

822
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 3: put off things. But sometime take that minute, take that

823
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 3: hour out in that second, because nothing is promised to you.

824
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 3: I mean, every day it's a blessing just to be

825
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,439
Speaker 3: on this earth. We know what we just went through

826
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 3: in this last couple of years with this COVID situation.

827
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 2: I just just pray that.

828
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 3: This happened for me, and I hope that everybody that's

829
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 3: unjustly incarcerated to get their day in court, that they're

830
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 3: able to come and do the same thing I'm doing

831
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: right now with this podcast and this story amongst the.

832
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 2: World, that.

833
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 3: This is the day that the Lord has made and

834
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 3: let us rejoice and be exceedingly glad that they're in.

835
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,840
Speaker 3: That's one of my favorite sayings. And I'm so grateful

836
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 3: to God that I know that that's the only reason

837
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 3: why I stand before you today and I sit here

838
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 3: and I'm able to be here. And again, thank you

839
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 3: to Jason Flam and thank you to Connor for allowing

840
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 3: me just to be here, just to share the story

841
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: and hope that it can help somebody see something or

842
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 3: hear something, or some people just do the right thing.

843
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 3: Just to know that you don't have to lie on

844
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 3: somebody in order to change your life or to save

845
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 3: your life, because it's no good God to come out

846
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 3: of that. If you do something wrong with somebody, Believe me,

847
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 3: it's gonna come back on you tenfold.

848
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: And with that, I say, I have a blessed day.

849
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: Thank you.

850
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to

851
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Cliburn,

852
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 1: and Kevin Wardis. With research by Lyla Robinson. The music

853
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated

854
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram.

855
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: At Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and

856
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava

857
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow

858
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: me on both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason Flopp.

859
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcasts

860
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one