Speaker 1: On the cast. The questions asked if movies have women
Speaker 1: and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Betel Cast. Jamie, can I
Speaker 1: have a simple favor to ask of you? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure? Oh yeah, for sure? Yeah, okay, for sure,
Speaker 1: for sure. Sorry, that's why, Anna Kendrick, Oh for sure.
Speaker 1: It's really good. Will you help me record an episode
Speaker 1: of the Becktel Cast so the Yeah, it's totally fine.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to do it. And it's actually I'm going
Speaker 1: to actually tweet about it right now. That's totally fine,
Speaker 1: and I would I would be thrilled. Do you want
Speaker 1: to be friends? I haven't had an alcoholic beverage in years. Great,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, because we need to do that
Speaker 1: so that our listeners will be distracted when I commit murder.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Do you want to take karaoke? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I guess I had sex with my brother there. What
Speaker 1: a fun movie we're talking about today. I think that
Speaker 1: that intro about as well as it could. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I was like unintentionally doing
Speaker 1: a Blake Lively impression. But I feel like I kind
Speaker 1: of nailed it regardless. Oh yeah, I could like sense
Speaker 1: your elegant coat across the zoom call her outfits, her
Speaker 1: outfits in this movie. Good Lord, soul, good truly. Well.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Darante and this is our show.
Speaker 1: What if my name is actually Hope or Faith? Which one?
Speaker 1: I don't know? Charity's many Charity, there's yeah, this root
Speaker 1: might be Claudia Secret. I could, yeah, there was. At
Speaker 1: some point, I'm like, this is we gotta pare it down.
Speaker 1: I'm getting confused. But this is our show where we
Speaker 1: examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel
Speaker 1: Test as a jumping off point, which is a media
Speaker 1: metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel. There are many
Speaker 1: variations of the test. The one that we are using
Speaker 1: is the test requires that two people of a marginalized
Speaker 1: gender must have names and speak to each other about
Speaker 1: something other than a man for a two line exchange
Speaker 1: of dialogue, ideally more than that, and hopefully that exchange
Speaker 1: is narratively meaningful. Today we're not going to have many problems. No, no,
Speaker 1: we're not. No need to get into the weeds. Which
Speaker 1: is interesting because we are on a as we're just
Speaker 1: discussing off Mike, we're on a bit of a noir
Speaker 1: kick right now. And the first noir we covered, uh,
Speaker 1: we had a lot of trouble, uh finding two women
Speaker 1: at all and getting it in the same room. You know,
Speaker 1: So you know what a difference almost eighty years may Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: So today's movie is a simple favor, and we have
Speaker 1: a magnificent guest joining us to discuss. She is a
Speaker 1: writer and culture critic. It's Kate Young. Welcome, thanks for
Speaker 1: having me. I'm so excited. We're so excited to have
Speaker 1: It's been a long time coming. We're thrilled to have you,
Speaker 1: and we're really excited you brought us this movie. It's
Speaker 1: been a long time request. Since it came out, people
Speaker 1: have been yammering on about how we need to cover
Speaker 1: this movie. Sorry Kayle to hate star listeners. I mean
Speaker 1: I understand why, Like this is the movie that turned
Speaker 1: me around, like lively, Like I think the first time
Speaker 1: I watched it, I think I watched like a bootleg
Speaker 1: on my laptop, and I was like, this is incredible,
Speaker 1: and I've seen it like five million times since then. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're I was just we're just about to ask
Speaker 1: about your relationship with the movie. You're a fan. It's
Speaker 1: funnily now. It came out the same yeah, that I
Speaker 1: started listening to this podcast, and I was going to
Speaker 1: the New York Film Festival for the first time, and
Speaker 1: I was staying with a cousin in I think, like
Speaker 1: harl M and I wasn't doing anything except like going
Speaker 1: to screenings and like watching TV on my laptop. I
Speaker 1: mean that was like the same year that like the
Speaker 1: first season of You was on Lifetime and no one
Speaker 1: was watching I'm cooler than everyone, but um it had
Speaker 1: come out, and I was just like, I don't really
Speaker 1: want to like figure out like a movie theem I like,
Speaker 1: you know secret and know all the bootleg sites. So
Speaker 1: I found a video and I watched it because I've
Speaker 1: been hearing such great things about it, and I was like,
Speaker 1: there's no way, like the Life is not a particularly
Speaker 1: strong actress, there's no way this movie is good. And
Speaker 1: I watched it and I was like, this is the
Speaker 1: best thing I've ever seen in my life. Clearly like
Speaker 1: someone on her team has like figured out what her
Speaker 1: sweet spot is and like put her exactly in it,
Speaker 1: like they know how to find her, like just that
Speaker 1: specific kind of like b movie plot that is going
Speaker 1: to play to her strengths. Like it's been a long
Speaker 1: standing like pet peeve of my ye that like she
Speaker 1: was a breakout star of Gossip Girl because rude, but this,
Speaker 1: I feel like this is the first thing that she's done.
Speaker 1: It's like kind of justified it. Like I really really
Speaker 1: love this movie. She is on the star. She completely
Speaker 1: makes it worth it. Like I don't think that anyone
Speaker 1: else could have done it the same way that she did.
Speaker 1: I totally agree. I was. I guess. I guess I
Speaker 1: never really thought about I I didn't watch Gossip Girls
Speaker 1: it was coming out, um, which I don't know if
Speaker 1: I regret that or not, because I started to watch
Speaker 1: it for the first time over the summer and I
Speaker 1: was like, um, okay, interesting, interesting. I got to the
Speaker 1: Hillary Duff season and then I had to stop. That's gnarly. Now.
Speaker 1: That was a very specific moment in time. You had
Speaker 1: to be seventeen to appreciate it. Got Hillary Duff in
Speaker 1: like fourteen Infinity scrves at once. I was like, this
Speaker 1: is a lot. I need to I need to slow.
Speaker 1: We're just we're just having three since with Vanessa. Well,
Speaker 1: I gotta watch this show. I guess it's pretty I mean,
Speaker 1: if you want to see everything happened, then this is
Speaker 1: the show to see it happen on. UM. But I
Speaker 1: I always associate her with Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.
Speaker 1: Oh right, that is the one other thing I've seen
Speaker 1: her in. I think that that was like maybe her
Speaker 1: first thing, or like close to her first thing. I
Speaker 1: think so. Yeah, So I I always had pleasant associations
Speaker 1: with her because I was a pants head. I don't
Speaker 1: know what they're on that fandom. I was twelve. I
Speaker 1: liked it. Jamie, had you seen this movie before? What's
Speaker 1: your relationship with it? I had? I saw it, um.
Speaker 1: I didn't see it in theaters. I think I saw
Speaker 1: it maybe the year after it came out. Someone sat
Speaker 1: me down and maybe watch it, and I really really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, um, which I was kind of surprised that
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it because I wasn't a particularly big fan
Speaker 1: of Blake Lively or Anna Kendrick. I think just because
Speaker 1: I am theater kid resistant to some degree and so
Speaker 1: but but like you're saying, Kate, this movie actually turned
Speaker 1: me around pretty significantly on both of them, be because
Speaker 1: and and also I mean, I'm always thrilled to see
Speaker 1: Henry Golding and so that was a treat. And then
Speaker 1: there's also like so many fun comics in this movie too,
Speaker 1: like a part in Intrelo is in it, Patty Harrison
Speaker 1: is in it. Like there's a fun supporting cast too.
Speaker 1: I liked this movie, and I was really especially after
Speaker 1: we had just done uh like classic noar. I was
Speaker 1: excited to go into like a very smart and funny
Speaker 1: modern noir. And I mean that's start to talk. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think I mostly just have like questions about this movie,
Speaker 1: but I'm excited to talk about it with y'all. Caitlin
Speaker 1: went your history with this movie. I had not seen it. Oh.
Speaker 1: I remember all the buzz around it when it came out,
Speaker 1: and I had every intention of seeing it, but I
Speaker 1: just like never got around to it, and it kept
Speaker 1: slipping further and further down my list, and then I
Speaker 1: just never saw it. But I like, I'm glad that
Speaker 1: we're doing this episode to like have given me the
Speaker 1: excuse to have seen it because it was a very
Speaker 1: interesting and challenging watch for me. I don't know what
Speaker 1: to make of this movie, and I'm going to need
Speaker 1: both of your help. I have a lot of thoughts
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, I am very I don't know. It
Speaker 1: was just I'm not really sure what the intention of
Speaker 1: the movie is because it seems like it's asking the
Speaker 1: audience to empathize with Anna kendricks character by the end.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, but I don't, so, so what's what? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: I uh. I also resent being asked to relate with
Speaker 1: Anna Kendrick. I was. I was thinking about this today
Speaker 1: because I was eating a tuna sandwich in public, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, Ana Kendrick wouldn't do this, and I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to relate. I'm supposed to relate. I can I just
Speaker 1: have theater kid prejudice. It's fine. I like that she
Speaker 1: brings it's been because I didn't get that at all. Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't dislike her by the end of
Speaker 1: the movie, but I like she's not person that I
Speaker 1: gravitated towards. And I did not get the sense that
Speaker 1: the movie wants us to be on her side or
Speaker 1: to like her the best at all. That wasn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like certain narrative and cinematic choices that are made
Speaker 1: makes me think that the movie is sort of asking
Speaker 1: that of you. But maybe maybe not, Maybe I'm just
Speaker 1: like misinterpreting. I don't, I don't know, but yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: excited to talk about that further. Yeah, I guess I
Speaker 1: wasn't really sure. I guess you would assume that you're
Speaker 1: trying to connect with Anna Kendrick harder than Lively. But
Speaker 1: even so, like that didn't take me out of it.
Speaker 1: I was just like, these women are all over the place.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, um well let's should we get into it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's get into it. I will attempt to recap this
Speaker 1: very complicated movie. So we open on Stephanie. That's Ana
Speaker 1: Kendrick recording her vlog, which is directed at mom's. It
Speaker 1: might even be called like him M god, I love
Speaker 1: I do like the vlogger commentary. I feel like, especially
Speaker 1: like I'm sure it will seem dated very soon and
Speaker 1: already a little bit. I'm like, oh, this old interface interesting.
Speaker 1: But Anna Kendrick is the perfect I mean, you could
Speaker 1: so see easily see her like pivoting to lifestyle content,
Speaker 1: and she's like one flop away from a lifestyle content
Speaker 1: career at any given moment anyways, And I say that
Speaker 1: with love, but like she she's got it, She's got
Speaker 1: the cadence. So I love that her name and like
Speaker 1: her character's name is literally Stephanie's mother is, which is
Speaker 1: like her whole deal. I did appreciate that. So in
Speaker 1: her vlog she mentions the disappearance of her best friend Emily,
Speaker 1: who has at this point been missing for five days.
Speaker 1: Then we flash back to Stephanie and Emily played by
Speaker 1: Black Lively, meeting for the first time. Their sons go
Speaker 1: to school together. Stephanie is a stay at home mom.
Speaker 1: Her whole thing is that she's this like super mom.
Speaker 1: Her flog is all about like recipes and how to
Speaker 1: make all these like cool. It's lively. It's mommy blogging, lifestyle, clicky,
Speaker 1: crafty food. And I think, Okay, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you have any knowledge on this, because I have occasionally
Speaker 1: gone down the mom mommy's vlogging from home hole, but
Speaker 1: I feel like this movie was maybe a little early,
Speaker 1: like in a good way early to mommy blogs pivoting
Speaker 1: to true crime, which is definitely benefiting. I feel like,
Speaker 1: especially in Lockdown, so many people pivoted to true crime.
Speaker 1: I don't know, just because I'm not a true crime person,
Speaker 1: so I'm not super tapped into like what those people
Speaker 1: are doing. I know, as is your rights, I know.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm like, just give me like podcasts
Speaker 1: about movies, like I don't want to hear about murdered woman.
Speaker 1: That's not fun. Same. I went through like a two
Speaker 1: week phase in Lockdown. I went I mean everyone went
Speaker 1: through five two week phases in locked Down, but where
Speaker 1: I someone Someone came into my algorithm and then I
Speaker 1: just let her hang around for a while. Her name
Speaker 1: was Stephanie, and she was doing this these really long
Speaker 1: vlogs called like Coffee and true Crime, and it was like,
Speaker 1: oh and and they videos have millions of views. She
Speaker 1: was basically doing Ana Kendrick cosplay goodness. So Stephanie is
Speaker 1: this super mom. Her son's name is Miles. She's also
Speaker 1: kind of like a goody two shoes, which is in
Speaker 1: stark contrast to Emily. She has a very high power,
Speaker 1: high stress job. She's very elegant and high class, but
Speaker 1: she's also very crass and abrasive. Her son's name is Nikki.
Speaker 1: Their sons want to have a play date, so Emily
Speaker 1: reluctantly invites Stephanie and Miles over to her amazing fancy house.
Speaker 1: They all live in Connecticut in one of the suburbs
Speaker 1: of New York City. Ever heard of it? And then,
Speaker 1: like the other parents, including one played by a friend
Speaker 1: of the cast, a partner, Matla, they comment on how
Speaker 1: Stephanie and Emily like have nothing in common. They're like,
Speaker 1: what are they even going to talk about? But Emily
Speaker 1: and Stephanie get to know each other. Emily mentions her
Speaker 1: husband Sean, who is a writer who wrote a book
Speaker 1: like ten years ago. Who is Henry Golding? Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he shows up its own point and it's Henry Golding.
Speaker 1: He's in Um, He's in Paul Fige's movie after this, right,
Speaker 1: the Christmas movie Last Christmas. Yes, but I don't think
Speaker 1: that's a Paul Fige movie. Maybe Paul fig just produced
Speaker 1: it or something. That was one of the worst movies
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my entire life. By the way, No,
Speaker 1: he did direct Last Christmas. He did. He did, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was feeling out. No, he he did the
Speaker 1: end it also, and that movie also has a very
Speaker 1: chaotic series of claussmists that happened very very close to
Speaker 1: other It's just less satisfying in that one. But Henry
Speaker 1: Golding us in a row, Paul Fie, it's a whole genre. Incredible.
Speaker 1: It's it's Leo DiCaprio being submerged in water in his
Speaker 1: clothes all over again. Remember that. Yeah, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: what an exciting day for us when we were I
Speaker 1: think I was like in a cabin in the middle
Speaker 1: of the woods and we were just screaming at each
Speaker 1: other over a poor Internet connection. Like it's all coming together.
Speaker 1: What a normal time. Okay, So we meet Sean. He
Speaker 1: is a writer. He wrote a book like ten years
Speaker 1: ago that Stephanie has read and really liked. We learned
Speaker 1: that Stephanie's husband and brother died in a car accident,
Speaker 1: so she's a single mom now. Then one day Emily
Speaker 1: asks Stephanie if she can pick up her son Nicki
Speaker 1: and look after him until Emily gets home from work,
Speaker 1: and then she does. They hang out again. They drink
Speaker 1: Martini use they're loose, and they tell each other some secrets.
Speaker 1: Stephanie reveals that after her father passed away, when she
Speaker 1: was eighteen years old, she met her half brother that
Speaker 1: she never knew that she had, and then she reveals
Speaker 1: that she had sex with him. See this is where
Speaker 1: I do connect with Anna kendricks character, and not in
Speaker 1: the way but car to clarify that the years where
Speaker 1: I felt like representation mattered. No, I okay, very with you,
Speaker 1: but the whole like the dynamic and it's like, obviously
Speaker 1: very exaggerated because it's a noir and Anna Kendricks in
Speaker 1: the scene, so it's inherent I'm being so mean to her,
Speaker 1: but um, but the whole idea of like making a
Speaker 1: new friend who's a woman and being really swept up
Speaker 1: and like taken into a friendship and like immediately oversharing
Speaker 1: to an absurd degree and then having that be a
Speaker 1: problem later. I had this problem before it revised me
Speaker 1: of like getting drunk in the park with a new
Speaker 1: friend and then being like, do you want to know
Speaker 1: the worst thing that's ever happened to me? And they're like, yes,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I love intense friendships, but they're scary. Yes,
Speaker 1: that aspect of her character is relatable. Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1: Others not so much. But when Emily, you mean When
Speaker 1: Emily learns this, she's like, oh my god, you brother fucker,
Speaker 1: which she says a million times throughout the movie, and
Speaker 1: she seems to revel in this juicy gossip. Yeah. Not
Speaker 1: long after this, Emily asks Stephanie to do her another
Speaker 1: simple favor. She needs Stephanie to pick Nikki up from
Speaker 1: school again until Emily gets home, except Emily never comes
Speaker 1: home that night. Stephanie calls Emily's office and learns that
Speaker 1: Emily is in Miami for a few days. Sean is
Speaker 1: meanwhile overseas, but he comes back a couple of days later.
Speaker 1: He picks up Nikki, but there's still no word from Emily,
Speaker 1: so they decide to call the police, who start investigating
Speaker 1: Emily being missing. Stephanie also goes to Emily's office to
Speaker 1: do some digging. She finds an unflattering photo of Emily,
Speaker 1: which she then posts around town as a missing person's flyer,
Speaker 1: which is not me which to be fed to her.
Speaker 1: It's because she doesn't have any other photos of her
Speaker 1: because Emily is very secretive about the fact that she
Speaker 1: is in hiding, which we don't know yet, but like
Speaker 1: won't let her take her photo exactly. Yes, is that
Speaker 1: a smart thing to do is like have someone in
Speaker 1: your life that's like, if I ever go missing, please
Speaker 1: use this picture. Yeah, I'm going to email all my
Speaker 1: friends be like I approved this image of me. I
Speaker 1: startally have very bad I mean, it seems suspicious to do.
Speaker 1: It seems like you're about to disappear yourself. But I
Speaker 1: do think that there. I don't know. I think I
Speaker 1: just historically no one is ever picking a picture of
Speaker 1: me that I want them to. Yeah, I mean on
Speaker 1: the upside, well, I guess on the downside, if you're missing,
Speaker 1: you're probably dead, so you won't care. That's true love
Speaker 1: wringing my hands in the afterlife, being like, um, no,
Speaker 1: wonder they didn't find me. I'm much cute in that
Speaker 1: I did set my cousin to take over my Facebook
Speaker 1: account if I die. So, oh wait, is that something
Speaker 1: you can do? Yeah? Interesting. Yeah, it's like they like
Speaker 1: they get access to it and they can memorialize it
Speaker 1: and like confirm that your dad and like get over
Speaker 1: your pathwords and let all your ship if you need
Speaker 1: them to. Huh. Yeah, that's we're in the future, aren't we. Fun?
Speaker 1: Morbid talk on the cast today. So much for not
Speaker 1: liking dead women anyway. Okay, so they've posted the flow fire.
Speaker 1: They find out that Emily rented a Kia from an
Speaker 1: airport that the police are trying to track, and then
Speaker 1: a fan of Stephanie's vlog thinks she spotted Emily in Michigan,
Speaker 1: so they have kind of like a lead now. Also,
Speaker 1: by the way, with Emily gone, Stephanie and Sean have
Speaker 1: started to connect a bit more. They're getting closer, such
Speaker 1: as like Stephanie is like coming over and like cooking
Speaker 1: dinner for Sean and the kids. She makes a lot
Speaker 1: of very weird choices. Yeah, she really takes a turn.
Speaker 1: Then Emily's body is found in a lake in Michigan,
Speaker 1: apparently she had drowned, and Stephanie and Sean mourn the
Speaker 1: loss of Emily, and then immediately after that they have
Speaker 1: sex with each other. We all grieve differently, you know.
Speaker 1: I was like I was gonna say, I was like,
Speaker 1: there's no one the wrong way to grieve, And if
Speaker 1: you're grieving involves having sex with Henry Golding, you could
Speaker 1: do work. You've unlocked a new level of grieving. Um.
Speaker 1: One day, not long after this, Detective Somerville shows up
Speaker 1: and informs Stephanie that Emily had heroin in her system
Speaker 1: when she died, and that Sean took out a four
Speaker 1: million dollar life insurance policy on Emily before she disappeared,
Speaker 1: So all of this seems very suspicious, and also the
Speaker 1: audience is kind of wondering at this point if Stephanie
Speaker 1: had something to do with Emily's disappearance, because she's acting
Speaker 1: a bit erratic, But either way, Stephanie starts to do
Speaker 1: some more digging and she and Sean keep getting closer.
Speaker 1: He asks her to move in with him. They tell
Speaker 1: each other that they love each other. But then one day,
Speaker 1: Nikki mentions that he saw his mom, that she had
Speaker 1: come around to the playground at school, and there seemed
Speaker 1: to be other hints that maybe Emily isn't actually dead
Speaker 1: after all, including what appears to be Emily blackmailing Stephanie
Speaker 1: with the information that Stephanie had sex with her brother
Speaker 1: and that's why you don't get too drunk on the
Speaker 1: first friend date. And then Emily still being alive is
Speaker 1: confirmed when she calls Stephanie on the phone. Emily knows
Speaker 1: that Stephanie Sean have like been having sex and that
Speaker 1: they're in a relationship. So now Stephanie is suspecting that
Speaker 1: Emily and Sean are working together to try to funck
Speaker 1: over Stephanie somehow. This is also around the time that
Speaker 1: we get a flashback where Stephanie and Emily kiss. Then
Speaker 1: we learn of a relationship, a former relation ship that
Speaker 1: Stephanie had with a woman named Diana Highland played by
Speaker 1: Linda Cardellini, who had painted a number of nude portraits
Speaker 1: of Emily, except when Stephanie goes to her to like
Speaker 1: get some information, Diana is like, her name isn't Emily,
Speaker 1: her name is Claudia, and they had kind of a
Speaker 1: weird relationship where Emily had taken a lot of money
Speaker 1: from Diana. And then also there is this like summer
Speaker 1: camp sweatshirt that is a clue that Emily might be
Speaker 1: from Michigan. So then Stephanie goes to Michigan to this
Speaker 1: summer camp, which leads to Emily's parents house. We meet
Speaker 1: Emily's mom, who was played by Jean Smart. Also around
Speaker 1: this time, Stephanie learns that Emily had a twin sister
Speaker 1: and that their real names are Hope and Faith. So
Speaker 1: Emily reappears and links up with Sean and he's all like,
Speaker 1: what the hell? I always find it. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: fun to watch, but I'm like the fact that Stephanie
Speaker 1: continues to vlog through this experience of like it feels
Speaker 1: like we're leaving a lot of evidence like on I mean,
Speaker 1: not that people don't do that on on their vlogs.
Speaker 1: They do constantly, but it's it's just like she's really
Speaker 1: she's really laying it on thick end the vlogs I liked.
Speaker 1: I mean that is like one of the I feel
Speaker 1: like stronger cool like themes through this movie that modernizes
Speaker 1: it is that like Stephanie is genuinely like getting something
Speaker 1: out of this trauma that is basically unrelated to her.
Speaker 1: She's like building like like we've seen unfortunately, like a
Speaker 1: lot of creators build themselves up based on the trauma
Speaker 1: of others. And it's like to some extent, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's also it is also happening to her, um, but
Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, yeah, this is actually something that
Speaker 1: happens in the world. Yeah, she's like a exploiting her
Speaker 1: friend's disappearance to get more followers. She's leaning in, she's
Speaker 1: going for it. Well, I mean they're best friends. I mean,
Speaker 1: they only met like three times, but they're best friends.
Speaker 1: How I was trying to figure out what the how
Speaker 1: many times have they hung out before Emily disappears, because
Speaker 1: it seems like it might have been like four or
Speaker 1: five times. I think so because I think like the
Speaker 1: first time is I think when she tells her about
Speaker 1: the brother bucking and she meets Henry Golding. Um, there's
Speaker 1: the flashback scene. I don't know, those are two different times. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: those are two different times, So that's at least twice.
Speaker 1: The great Fard scene is after she disappears, so that
Speaker 1: doesn't count. And there's the one where they kiss, so
Speaker 1: and I think that's a separate time, so that's at
Speaker 1: least three times. It's at least three times, and that
Speaker 1: might be it. Yeah, but Stephanie keeps being like we're
Speaker 1: best friends, and I'm not sure how much of that
Speaker 1: is like Stephanie not having much of awareness. I think
Speaker 1: it's a word. Its like in the end when they
Speaker 1: pull this like big Gabbit, Stephanie says something to the
Speaker 1: fact of like you're not just saying that, but like
Speaker 1: you we really are best friends because I thought it
Speaker 1: was just me And then like goes yes, of course,
Speaker 1: Like I you know, I was feeling into and then
Speaker 1: she shoots are So it's like, I think that that
Speaker 1: was really fun for me, just because it's like in
Speaker 1: the same way that you guys are, like, she's doing
Speaker 1: a lot. I feel like that isn't like a feeling
Speaker 1: that a lot of people have. That's very common to
Speaker 1: female friendships, where it's like am I coming on to strong?
Speaker 1: Do I like them enough? Do they like me enough?
Speaker 1: Like is this reciprocated? And like how to kind of
Speaker 1: navigate that, especially given the like queer overtones for the
Speaker 1: whole thing. It's really fun. Yeah, it is. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: So Emily reappears. She meets up with Sean and a restaurant.
Speaker 1: He's all like, what the hell during this little hat? Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's like very incognito. She's wearing sunglasses. Why was I
Speaker 1: so in love with her when she was wearing that hat?
Speaker 1: I was like, she's been so mean and she's wearing
Speaker 1: a hat. I love it. Sean is like, what the hell?
Speaker 1: I thought you were dead? And she's like, well, I
Speaker 1: faked my death to collect the four million dollars. Keep up, John,
Speaker 1: but Stephanie keeps meddling in this whole situation and tells
Speaker 1: the insurance people that maybe the body they found is
Speaker 1: Emily's twin sister, that she's discovered that she had um.
Speaker 1: So then suddenly Stephanie and Emily meet up at Emily's
Speaker 1: grave site, but wearing good outfits yet again. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: how did they? I want to know what happened to
Speaker 1: like arrange this meet up? But anyway, there, oh was it?
Speaker 1: Did she say like, I'm going to the grave. So
Speaker 1: she was like, I think there's the one where she
Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to go toast in your memory
Speaker 1: or something like that. Okay, yeah, right, got it? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the flox slowly just become like it's she's cloud chasing,
Speaker 1: but she's also like, yeah, just talking the lively. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1: So we find out that Hope, which is Emily's real name,
Speaker 1: and her twin sister, Faith, had burned down part of
Speaker 1: their parents house and had killed their father when they
Speaker 1: were teenagers because their father was abusive, and then after
Speaker 1: that they flee in part ways and they don't see
Speaker 1: each other for years and years, the two sisters until
Speaker 1: recently when they meet up. But Emily's sister is an addict.
Speaker 1: She needs money. She's trying to blackmail Emily, so Emily
Speaker 1: drowned her in the lake. Uh, and that's whose body
Speaker 1: they find. But Emily tells Stephanie that the drowning was
Speaker 1: a suicide and that Sean was in on this plan
Speaker 1: from the beginning and that they were just using Stephanie
Speaker 1: to like take care of their song on until they
Speaker 1: were able to just like the insurance What a what
Speaker 1: a long what a what a long con? What a
Speaker 1: risky long con to be like, oh, we just needed
Speaker 1: to exploit your labor, which is like there's that bit
Speaker 1: in the middle where Andreronald's like, it's like, oh, you're
Speaker 1: you took on the nanny position and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: we're friends. And then when she leaves, she goes she
Speaker 1: doesn't know she's freaking for free, right. I love that
Speaker 1: I forgot he was in this movie. Okay, so Emily
Speaker 1: reveals all this stuff to Stephanie. But because Stephanie has
Speaker 1: like meddled in the whole insurance collecting thing, now everyone's
Speaker 1: kind of like at an impass where they like don't
Speaker 1: no one really knows what to do. So then Stephanie
Speaker 1: goes to Sean and Emily's house, Stephanie fake shoots Sean
Speaker 1: and and so doing tries to trick Emily into confessing
Speaker 1: to the murder of her sister, but Emily won't be
Speaker 1: so easily duped, and she actually shoots her husband Sean.
Speaker 1: But it turns out that Stephanie was secretly live streaming
Speaker 1: the whole thing on her vlog, her tiny nanny Cam
Speaker 1: ty nanny Cam. Her vlog has gotten We've seen it
Speaker 1: like growing popularity throughout the movie, and so everyone was
Speaker 1: watching Emily shoot her husband. So she gets arrested. Then
Speaker 1: we get some text at the end that says that
Speaker 1: Stephanie's vlog was purchased by like a huge like publishing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and she also takes on cold cases, so now she's
Speaker 1: like a private eye kind of thing. Sean and his
Speaker 1: son Nikki are doing fine, and Sean moved to California
Speaker 1: and is now the head of the lit department at
Speaker 1: UC Berkeley wrote a second book, yeah, which is so funny.
Speaker 1: And then Emily is serving a twenty year prison sentence
Speaker 1: and has adjusted to prison life very well. And that
Speaker 1: is the end of the movie. So let's take a
Speaker 1: quick break and we'll come back to discuss and we're
Speaker 1: back where shall we start here? Where we want to start?
Speaker 1: When we should just pick something out of a hat.
Speaker 1: At this point, there's something to do. There's truly we've
Speaker 1: we've we've got some ship to talk about. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like we should just like start with the
Speaker 1: costumes because I feel like that's such such a big draw. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the main focus in terms of like
Speaker 1: the visually striking costumes are with Emily and like Lively,
Speaker 1: and it was definitely a big draw to me. I
Speaker 1: think that was part of what drew me into that
Speaker 1: character specifically, and part of why I don't think we're
Speaker 1: supposed to like Stephanie that much, because I feel like
Speaker 1: it's it's like the same issue that I had with
Speaker 1: like what is it Mrs American Hulu or whatever that
Speaker 1: came last year, Like you don't give me like a
Speaker 1: super offend diva and like great costumes and then tell
Speaker 1: me to root against her. Doesn't work that way, right, um? So,
Speaker 1: So I love I loved all of the suits and
Speaker 1: like how stylish they are and like the way that
Speaker 1: they were able to kind of construct these like really
Speaker 1: feminine lines with like traditionally male attire. But I also
Speaker 1: really liked how they were able to kind of contrast
Speaker 1: that with these this like two sections of her life
Speaker 1: because she's in these suits when she's like dealing with Emily,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of not with Emily with Stephanie, and
Speaker 1: that's part of my Stephanie is like so enamored with
Speaker 1: her and think she's so cool that wants to be
Speaker 1: her best friend, because like, obviously so do I. But
Speaker 1: but like she's not dressed like that when she finally
Speaker 1: meets up with this sister before she kills her, or
Speaker 1: like when she meets up with the husband to tell
Speaker 1: him that she's still alive, or even at the very
Speaker 1: end when they're doing this big gambit, Like there's such
Speaker 1: a huge contrast between the suits she wears in the
Speaker 1: beginning of the film and like this like fifties housewive
Speaker 1: get up that she has on when she's turned up
Speaker 1: and told them that her husband tried to murder her.
Speaker 1: Because she's essentially doing like white woman in Peril cosplay
Speaker 1: like very effectively, and like the knowledge that she has
Speaker 1: of like how to kind of I'm not sure that
Speaker 1: manipulate is the right way, but to like situate herself
Speaker 1: in relation to other people, Like she is nearly always overdressed,
Speaker 1: like in every scene, and it still doesn't feel like
Speaker 1: out of place. And I know, for me, like what
Speaker 1: I thought was really fun is that I think it's
Speaker 1: the first time that Stephanie comes over where the boys
Speaker 1: are there. She's making her and meet Martini, and she
Speaker 1: starts undressing and like pulling the pieces of the suit apart,
Speaker 1: and you realize that it's not at all actually it's
Speaker 1: just pieces put together to look like a suit, and
Speaker 1: so it's like a metaphor for her whole life. It's
Speaker 1: like this big, fancy, beautiful thing, but it's really just
Speaker 1: like a trick meant to confuse you. And I really
Speaker 1: enjoy that aspect of it a lot, because I felt
Speaker 1: like she has so much like swagger, and I feel
Speaker 1: like I don't know how to expand I keep trying
Speaker 1: to tell people, like like I I have decided for
Speaker 1: myself that like eye contact is gay, but there's not
Speaker 1: actually a ton of it in this movie. But she
Speaker 1: does have like a very she does have like a
Speaker 1: very masculine sagger, which I find very attractive, and that's
Speaker 1: like aided by the costuming um and the walking stick
Speaker 1: that she uses for some reason later in the film,
Speaker 1: which she apparently stole from Paul Feek, like on the
Speaker 1: day of the shoot. Yeah, it's his. I think she's
Speaker 1: doing some interview and she was like, I just decided
Speaker 1: I wanted it. I asked him for it and he
Speaker 1: told me fine. And I really love that I And
Speaker 1: I like that it's like something that she's very aware
Speaker 1: of because I think once we get through the plot
Speaker 1: and we deal with like the Linda Carline character and everything, like,
Speaker 1: it becomes very clear that she's a person who's like
Speaker 1: reinvented herself a lot, and like this is just the
Speaker 1: latest iteration of that this is the persona that suits
Speaker 1: her current life. Yeah, I totally agree. And that's like
Speaker 1: better put than I ever could have done with costume analysis,
Speaker 1: So thank you. And I also, I mean, I also
Speaker 1: felt like a lot of I mean Blake Livelis costumes
Speaker 1: specifically because I feel like they're really given Anna Kendrick
Speaker 1: the full target very intentionally, um for the entire movie
Speaker 1: until the very end. But I I like, I feel
Speaker 1: like Blake Lively's wardrobe also reminds you that this is
Speaker 1: a noir movie all the time, because her outfits are
Speaker 1: definitely like referencing the forties and fifties. I mean, especially
Speaker 1: in that last scene when she's like, you know, being
Speaker 1: the devil and wearing a house like a Donna Reed dress,
Speaker 1: and like, I just I don't know, I think I'm
Speaker 1: just like in the noir zone right now. But I
Speaker 1: really appreciated how that, like the references to the genres
Speaker 1: origins were made even through the costuming, which was kind
Speaker 1: of cool. And that actually that brought me to I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if I'm missing anything, but there did seem to
Speaker 1: be and maybe it's still happening and I just don't
Speaker 1: realize it. But there were three noir movies with with
Speaker 1: these kind of fem fatale characters modernized. They came up
Speaker 1: within five years of each other that just had all
Speaker 1: these similarities, and I don't know if it's anything, but
Speaker 1: I was just like, this is so bizarre where this
Speaker 1: movie came out in Uh, there was a lot made
Speaker 1: of like, oh, this belongs to the like urra of
Speaker 1: Gone Girl and Girl on the Train, and then this
Speaker 1: is like the comedy flavor of that kind of modern
Speaker 1: film Fatale in a simple favor and there's Um and
Speaker 1: I like a simple favor and gone Girl. I didn't
Speaker 1: like the Girl on the Train. That's my business. But
Speaker 1: there is like a lot of similarities even in the
Speaker 1: production of those movies, where I feel like part of
Speaker 1: what makes them different is that they're all adapted from
Speaker 1: books by women, they're adapted into screenplays by women, and
Speaker 1: they're all directed by kind of like legacy mail directors UM,
Speaker 1: which I don't I don't know. It feels like an
Speaker 1: interesting kind of like half depth um in the way
Speaker 1: that we talked about a lot of the time where
Speaker 1: I was really happy to see that all three of
Speaker 1: these movies were written by kind of like seasoned female screenwriters.
Speaker 1: And also I was like, oh, but they all were
Speaker 1: directed by a very famous men, which I guess is
Speaker 1: the only way you can get a movie made stuff right,
Speaker 1: because I mean, we talked about on the recent Double
Speaker 1: Indemnity episode about how, despite some efforts to reclaim the
Speaker 1: fatal character, ultimately that archetype was men think women are scary,
Speaker 1: whereas these like you know, neo noir, way more recent
Speaker 1: you know, crime thrillers are especially the ones that you cited, Jamie,
Speaker 1: are stories that are crafted by women. So they're taking
Speaker 1: some tropes of the genre that feel familiar but subverting
Speaker 1: them or updating them. Yeah, like less mental gymnastics too
Speaker 1: to get there, but um right, which makes for far
Speaker 1: more interesting and nuanced characters, especially the women in the movie.
Speaker 1: I like. Okay, So for Stephanie and Emily, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so much to talk about regarding their friendship. There's
Speaker 1: so much to talk about regarding them. Is just like individuals.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't even know where should should
Speaker 1: We just like start with Stephanie and then we'll just
Speaker 1: go from there. I don't like trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what the order or what like the order of operation
Speaker 1: is here? Right? Yeah, so Stephanie, um thoughts, I like
Speaker 1: know what Okay, let let me just pose this question
Speaker 1: to start. Did Stephanie kill her dad? And did Stephanie
Speaker 1: kill her brother and her husband? That is what I
Speaker 1: was thinking for a large chunk of the movie. She
Speaker 1: did not kill her dad or her brother or her husband. Okay,
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a second, Yes, her dad died
Speaker 1: and he either had a previous son or a secret
Speaker 1: son bat part son clip. But she has a half
Speaker 1: brother who showed up to the funeral or the wake
Speaker 1: or the whatever, and then she slept with him and
Speaker 1: her son is very probably her brother's yes, and her
Speaker 1: husband was like, you guys were too close. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a weird. And then he was mad about it
Speaker 1: and was like, let's go handle this like men. And
Speaker 1: then they go too car accident, died. Yeah. I thought
Speaker 1: that was just the traumatic backstory for her. I'm pretty
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, right, did they miss something? I don't
Speaker 1: think she killed she didn't know. Yeah, she didn't kill them.
Speaker 1: They just died doing men things. That's a wild theory, though,
Speaker 1: I that's my theory. I think that Stephanie is not
Speaker 1: as innocent as she seems. And maybe I was just
Speaker 1: thinking this because he just sucking her. She's she was
Speaker 1: sucking her brother famously. She was, yeah, and they kept
Speaker 1: showing you and she's loving it. Oh my gosh. There's
Speaker 1: a chunk of the movie where you aren't sure how
Speaker 1: culpable or not Stephanie is, because there's a little bit
Speaker 1: where you're kind of it's kind of vague, it's open
Speaker 1: to interpretation. You're wondering, like, wait a minute, did she
Speaker 1: have something to do with the disappearance of her supposed
Speaker 1: best friend that pretty quickly seems to fizzle out as
Speaker 1: more information comes out. But I think maybe it was
Speaker 1: just like during that chunk of time where I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: she seems really guilty. Does this mean she also killed
Speaker 1: all of these family members? And then I just kind
Speaker 1: of like ran with it. But okay, so so I
Speaker 1: guess Stephanie isn't a murderer. Um, yeah, give her time.
Speaker 1: I mean I I liked a lot of the commentary
Speaker 1: that was being done through Stephanie's character where I feel
Speaker 1: like sometimes it's like she definitely is a type that
Speaker 1: I feel like most people who have met a you know,
Speaker 1: a white millennial mom will recognize, which is like she
Speaker 1: is a lot. She's doing the most. There is like
Speaker 1: she's not coming from a bad place, but it is
Speaker 1: from a very like vibrating insecurity. She is extremely online,
Speaker 1: but it's very curated and very fake. But also on
Speaker 1: top of that, like I feel like sometimes you'll see
Speaker 1: that archetype presented and then kind of just be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's make fun of this person. She fucking sucks, and
Speaker 1: this movie doesn't do that. This movie gives her background.
Speaker 1: It also says like, yeah, she is this it almost
Speaker 1: reminds me of oh God, not me quoting a Beau
Speaker 1: Burnham song Jesus Christ, but like the like she's a
Speaker 1: very very like. She's a whatever quote unquote basic woman
Speaker 1: who has trauma and has like a backstory and has
Speaker 1: um more to her than meets the eye on this
Speaker 1: punishingly boring vlog that she has. And I liked that
Speaker 1: story choice where it seems like the writing in this
Speaker 1: movie it doesn't let her off the hook for um
Speaker 1: a lot of the I mean, and and ultimately especially
Speaker 1: at the end where I was a little unclear and like,
Speaker 1: and I guess it's just like open interpretation, but how
Speaker 1: the movie wants you to feel about her, Like sinister
Speaker 1: true crime blog getting bought out by Conde Nast, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like that's really a win for for
Speaker 1: the culture. But but as a girl boss capitalist, you know,
Speaker 1: really thrilled for her that she gets to exploit people's
Speaker 1: death on YouTube every single day. But um, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like the movie doesn't let her
Speaker 1: off the hook but also gives her an appropriate depth.
Speaker 1: So I liked she has written. I didn't like her particularly,
Speaker 1: but I but I don't know, like you were saying earlier, Kase,
Speaker 1: I don't know how much we're supposed to really like
Speaker 1: like her, but I was interested. Yeah. I think the
Speaker 1: thing with Stephanie is that she is like aggressively normy,
Speaker 1: but it read to me like it was very much
Speaker 1: like a front to cover the brother fucking, which I
Speaker 1: think is part of why, like Emily is so delighted
Speaker 1: when she admits that, because she's like, I thought you
Speaker 1: were this like super boring housewife, and you're way more
Speaker 1: interesting than that. And it's like a thing that she's
Speaker 1: ashamed of, obviously, but it's also something that she feels
Speaker 1: like it's maybe more true to she actually is, and
Speaker 1: so she has to do this like very aggressive performance
Speaker 1: of like normativity to hide that side of herself. And
Speaker 1: I think that the thing that connects her and Emily
Speaker 1: is that she kind of sees that, like Emily is
Speaker 1: very like cards on the table, like I'm in debt,
Speaker 1: hate my husband. Isn't that fun? And she like enjoys
Speaker 1: how much that puts people off, because like we don't
Speaker 1: generally just air our laundry out like that, um, And
Speaker 1: I think for her, like getting getting Stephanie to kind
Speaker 1: of return the favor almost is like delightful to her
Speaker 1: because she didn't think that there was anything there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I found the way the two main characters and like
Speaker 1: how they were written and how they were characterized to
Speaker 1: be interesting. And I mean the layers that keep getting
Speaker 1: healed back, the information you keep learning about each one
Speaker 1: because Stephanie, Yeah, you learn this thing that she committed
Speaker 1: an act of incest at least once, maybe most. It
Speaker 1: might be suggested that it's like an ongoing scene. It's
Speaker 1: only half incest. It's I was also. I mean that's
Speaker 1: like a gutsy move to involve an incest plotline in
Speaker 1: like a Paul Feig movie. Right, it's because I feel
Speaker 1: like it never really registers. Is like as potentially gross
Speaker 1: as it actually is. It feels like the movie kind
Speaker 1: of down plays it. I mean because the brother I
Speaker 1: don't think has any lines except maybe like one right
Speaker 1: before he dies. Right, maybe he doesn't know. I think
Speaker 1: he might just signal to her like it's all good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess you don't really get to know him, not
Speaker 1: even at all. It's like a nonentity, Yeah I do.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like and and obviously that's a very
Speaker 1: very serious issue that this movie isn't equipped to handle.
Speaker 1: But I wasn't like particularly upset with how It's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're going to include that in this movie, you
Speaker 1: gotta like skirt around it, like we don't have in
Speaker 1: a movie like this to tackle an issue of that magnitude. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like it puts it in in in a
Speaker 1: way where Emily's reaction is appropriate, where it's like, not,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's incest, but oh my god, you're
Speaker 1: so dirty. That's really fun, right right, because that's how
Speaker 1: she would see it, Yeah, which is bizarre. It is,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's definitely bizarre. I'm also like, if if
Speaker 1: there were viewers who were like that was fucked up,
Speaker 1: I totally understand why they would feel that way. Also,
Speaker 1: apparently that is like even and again, this is not
Speaker 1: a podcast we would where we would ever read read
Speaker 1: a book. We can say it for half a decade.
Speaker 1: But apparently in the book that is far more of
Speaker 1: an element in the book, and it was actively and
Speaker 1: intentionally scaled back for this adaptation, which I think I
Speaker 1: wonder why. Yeah, Like that's I think a smart move
Speaker 1: if they absolutely had to include that plot point I
Speaker 1: feel like they handled it about as gracefully as you could,
Speaker 1: but there's no graceful way to handle an incest plot line,
Speaker 1: so right, I'm just like, what function does this serve exactly?
Speaker 1: Besides like giving I guess it gives Emily leverage to
Speaker 1: blackmail Stephanie when she needs to. And then it also
Speaker 1: just like cluse the audience in two Stephanie not being
Speaker 1: nearly as innocent as she wants people to believe she is,
Speaker 1: like this persona that she puts on. I mean, there
Speaker 1: couldn't be a more extreme example of right right, So yeah,
Speaker 1: I find that all very fascinating in a way that
Speaker 1: like a lot of movies wouldn't dare tackle something like that,
Speaker 1: just isolating Stephanie alone, Like she's such a challenging character
Speaker 1: to analyze for sure. I mean I feel like it
Speaker 1: definitely is a case of like you can, but should you?
Speaker 1: And the answer in this case is I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I am always um, whatever this
Speaker 1: is I guess my second and third time seeing this movie,
Speaker 1: but every single time you're like, oh, right, that is
Speaker 1: also like an Ana Kendric character, Like it's just so wild.
Speaker 1: I feel like I can't. Maybe my brain has a
Speaker 1: hundred percent process that they made that choice. I've had
Speaker 1: plenty of time to process it. But it's so fun too,
Speaker 1: because I feel like in this movie, she's like Ana
Speaker 1: Kendrick is slaying exactly to type, like she's the exact
Speaker 1: this is the exact character that you think that she
Speaker 1: would be in real life if you were just making
Speaker 1: it up, Like it's so aggressively like the it's a
Speaker 1: kod energy like you were saying before, like it doesn't
Speaker 1: there's nothing new, Like I feel like all of the
Speaker 1: while ship that happens in the movie with her, it
Speaker 1: stops feeling wild because you're like, oh, yeah, of course
Speaker 1: she would do that. And so I guess if you
Speaker 1: said that precedent, you're like, oh, well, what could do
Speaker 1: anything at any time. It's like, yeah, I wonder if
Speaker 1: her character is canonically the character she played in the
Speaker 1: Twilight saga, because she was around so many like like
Speaker 1: this weird vampire family of like kind of brothers and
Speaker 1: sisters dating each other. So she's just like this is normal, right, true,
Speaker 1: she's carrying it over from her Twilight experience. She's like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I've been around this dynamic and um, you live long
Speaker 1: enough anyway, it's right, okay, okay. But then even after
Speaker 1: you learn that information about her back story, more and
Speaker 1: more layers keep being peeled back of, like her showing
Speaker 1: her true colors or like what she's capable of, and
Speaker 1: you know, because she's very mettlesome, she's very sneaky. There's
Speaker 1: that scene where she talks back to Emily's boss and
Speaker 1: like calls him like a bargain basement tom fordered and
Speaker 1: like tacky and says all these really bitchy things and
Speaker 1: which is a very funny, but we're like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I didn't you know, we didn't know she was capable
Speaker 1: of that. But she like firecracker, like one after the next,
Speaker 1: and you wonder like channeling Emily there too, which again
Speaker 1: is just like the the intense friendship element of this
Speaker 1: movie is so like friendship. And then some like elements
Speaker 1: of this movie are so appealing to me because you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: like like when you're in a new intense friendship, you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to be this person. I would like, let
Speaker 1: me see if I can like single white female them
Speaker 1: in this moment, you know that classic gay impulse of
Speaker 1: like do I want to be with her or to
Speaker 1: be her, to conceive her into my being. And I
Speaker 1: feel like that kindaic is like fully on display and
Speaker 1: as well, right, and I love it. Which I'm also
Speaker 1: curious about your thoughts on that aspect of their relationships,
Speaker 1: specifically because there's that scene we get the flashback towards
Speaker 1: the end of the you know, it's like quite a
Speaker 1: ways into the movie where they kiss, and it's after
Speaker 1: Stephanie has revealed that she feels responsible for the death
Speaker 1: of both her husband and her brother. You know, she's crying,
Speaker 1: and that leads to this kiss between her and Emily
Speaker 1: and then they both kind of like brush it off,
Speaker 1: is like, oh, I'm embarrassed, and then Emily's like, oh,
Speaker 1: no big deal and just another Tuesday for me. And
Speaker 1: I thought that was like setting up a different ending
Speaker 1: for the movie that they would actually like join forces
Speaker 1: and interesting exploit maybe like Sean and like because they
Speaker 1: do kind of like try to send him off to jail,
Speaker 1: but then but then the where that's under consideration, but
Speaker 1: it lasts about thirty seconds. It's confusing. Yeah, it's because
Speaker 1: I feel like the movie it's it's very gay and
Speaker 1: its sensibility but it's also like aggressively heterosexual in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, and it's kind of hard, Like I
Speaker 1: feel like they do look ad job of balancing those
Speaker 1: two things, because in my mind this is a gay film,
Speaker 1: but it's not actually all that gay, no, like if
Speaker 1: you really think about it, and like everyone's endings are
Speaker 1: very normally and heterosexual. Although to be fair, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if they say that Stephane is dating someone from
Speaker 1: the city or a guy from the city, so if
Speaker 1: it's just somebody that it could be a lady, you
Speaker 1: don't know. But I think in general, like it definitely
Speaker 1: frames these relationships, is like transactional romantic heterosexual relationships. And
Speaker 1: that moment between Emily and Stephanie, I'm honestly not even
Speaker 1: sure what to make of it, except for the fact
Speaker 1: that because like Emily at least we know is like
Speaker 1: at least by curious because she has its previous relationship
Speaker 1: with Linda Carle name, Yeah, I think that she I mean,
Speaker 1: And then she also mentions that, like she had a
Speaker 1: relationship with the with the female ta at some point
Speaker 1: I think bisexual, So there you go. So for me,
Speaker 1: and it makes sense that she is kind of like
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of what Emily is doing
Speaker 1: too is like all of her relationships are about like
Speaker 1: power and the exchange of power, even if they're not
Speaker 1: actually sexual. And so I think for in that moment,
Speaker 1: it's very much like I don't do like hugs and
Speaker 1: comfort and whatever, but I can't do sex, and sex
Speaker 1: is power. So it's the same thing. Well that got
Speaker 1: me wondering. I think her sexuality is not super clear
Speaker 1: because as even though it suggested that she had a
Speaker 1: romantic relate or at least like a sexual relationship with
Speaker 1: Linda Cardelini's character, I interpreted that as Emily basically just
Speaker 1: like exploiting that situation for money, because Linda Cardelini is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I paid her way through college and then and it
Speaker 1: seemed like a very one sided relationship where she was
Speaker 1: like I was like she was the best sex I
Speaker 1: ever had, and like she was my muse and I
Speaker 1: painted her and it was great and da dada. But
Speaker 1: then Emily just like bailed and abandoned her. And but
Speaker 1: then it's like Emily does that to men as well,
Speaker 1: Like it seems like she's an equal opportunity like bailor
Speaker 1: just a chaos bisexual it's awesome. Yeah, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: think that that precludes her from being bisexual, if that
Speaker 1: she's a shitty girlfriend, A stronger case I wanted to
Speaker 1: bring up there. There was a fun piece I read
Speaker 1: about this movie on a website called into more dot
Speaker 1: com called but how Gay is a simple favor. It
Speaker 1: was a fun and useful tool written by a writer
Speaker 1: named Kevin O'Keeffe, and he references a trope that I
Speaker 1: don't know if we've ever addressed on this show before.
Speaker 1: He does not make the argument that Emily. He's kind
Speaker 1: of ambiguous of whether he thinks Emily falls into this trope.
Speaker 1: But it's just one that we haven't talked about that
Speaker 1: I feel like is often pulled into a FM fatale character. Um,
Speaker 1: which is the depraved bisexual trope. Have we talked about
Speaker 1: this before? Kay? I don't think so. The depraved bisexual trope? Okay,
Speaker 1: let's get into it. Um, I thinking whales are turning?
Speaker 1: This was new to me also, I might be into
Speaker 1: it right. And then once you hear the characters that
Speaker 1: are referenced, I'm like, okay, I understand what is being
Speaker 1: referenced here. It was first brought up by a writer
Speaker 1: named Devin Price in the Year of the Simple favor
Speaker 1: Um that we can link in the description. I was
Speaker 1: just curious on both of your thoughts on this, So,
Speaker 1: quoting from Devin Price's piece, quote, A depraved by sexual
Speaker 1: is a character, usually in a work of fiction, whose
Speaker 1: bisexuality is used as an indicator that they are untrustworthy, perverse,
Speaker 1: and morally corrupt. They are often depicted as impulsive, even unstable,
Speaker 1: or mentally ill. Deprave bisexuals are not merely attracted to
Speaker 1: some women and some men. They are salacious and undiscriminated,
Speaker 1: perhaps willing to fuck anything that moves. Their sexuality and
Speaker 1: the narrative is the source of distraction and corruption. They
Speaker 1: are often depicted as having explosive emotions and a deep
Speaker 1: streak of hedonism and other animalistic urges because they cannot
Speaker 1: quote unquote decide on a gender to be attracted to.
Speaker 1: As the logic goes, they also cannot say no to
Speaker 1: anything sexual or pleasurable. And he kind of proceeds to
Speaker 1: break this down character by character. He references shared Stone
Speaker 1: in Basic Instinct. He references Poison Ivy in Batman, the
Speaker 1: animated series. I don't know, I just it was not
Speaker 1: a trope I had come across before. And the writer
Speaker 1: Kevin O'Keefe is not making an argument that Emily is
Speaker 1: depraved by sex, because I think that there is like
Speaker 1: more to her than that, But it was just not
Speaker 1: something that I had encountered before. I mean, it's describing
Speaker 1: a trope. I feel like depraved as a strong word,
Speaker 1: but I would argue yes, only because I feel like
Speaker 1: the I am familiar with the idea that like bisexual
Speaker 1: means you can't choose and you'll do anything with anyone,
Speaker 1: and like I don't agree obviously, but I was on
Speaker 1: I was on the Quite Quad podcast a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks back, and we talked about the movie UM Side
Speaker 1: Effects with Rooney Mara and Katherine Zada Jones, and they
Speaker 1: are also bisexual. It's great UM, And one thing I
Speaker 1: talked about on that show is this idea that like
Speaker 1: it's not like great representation of core people for them
Speaker 1: to be like villains doing like bad things, but also
Speaker 1: like that's the most fun, Like I'm always on the
Speaker 1: side of the bisexual doing chaotic things, Like I'm always
Speaker 1: on their side. I'm always going to choose them, like
Speaker 1: I don't or if you murdered your husband, Like maybe
Speaker 1: he deserved it. That's not my problem, like I and
Speaker 1: so like I'm leaning towards like, yes, she falls into
Speaker 1: that trope. I just don't mind because like I just
Speaker 1: feel like crevalents are always more fun, Like there's a reason,
Speaker 1: like so many of them have been reclaimed over the years,
Speaker 1: Like especially when you put those characters and other characters
Speaker 1: are either explicitly quit or coded quite in the context
Speaker 1: of like the persecution that they face in the world.
Speaker 1: It's like, why wouldn't they go a little hog wild
Speaker 1: and like do someings where it shipped to people like
Speaker 1: they deserved to the world's miserable right, And that's like
Speaker 1: all of the characters that this trope are attributed to
Speaker 1: our beloved character exactly. So it's like it is, it
Speaker 1: is complicated, but I did I just had never. Um,
Speaker 1: I guess i'd never like read the agency of like
Speaker 1: conflating bisexuality with I mean, because the chaanic bisexual walks
Speaker 1: among us, the chaotic everyone walks among us. Um. But
Speaker 1: but in like in fiction, um, inflating that and the
Speaker 1: stereotypes that you know incorrects marginalizing stereotypes associated with bisexual
Speaker 1: people and how that translates to their to their chaos.
Speaker 1: It was like, oh, this is new to me, and
Speaker 1: it does seem like Emily falls into this trope to
Speaker 1: some degree. But I also really like that character, So yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like it's a little cuspy because
Speaker 1: like she is bisexual and she is chaotic. But I
Speaker 1: also feel like the movie in general, it's not that sexual.
Speaker 1: Like all of the sex, I feel like it's implied,
Speaker 1: other than the one sex scene of a brother, but
Speaker 1: other than that, like it's it's very much like an implication,
Speaker 1: like you're supposed to feel that the characters are sexy
Speaker 1: as opposed to that they are having sex necessarily, and
Speaker 1: so I I don't get that like that there's a
Speaker 1: direct connection between her desire for or engaging in sex
Speaker 1: as directly related to the crimes she does, Like she
Speaker 1: kills her dad because he's abusive, and then she like
Speaker 1: does a gone girl on herself because they're deeply in
Speaker 1: debt any money, Like she didn't None of that stuff
Speaker 1: is like because I'm trying to trap a man or
Speaker 1: trap a woman for that matter, Like they're all like
Speaker 1: practical consideration her like fem fatale motivation is all based
Speaker 1: in like class issues and money problems. It isn't like,
Speaker 1: you know whatever, we just did the double Indemnity episode
Speaker 1: of like I don't like my husband, I'd like for
Speaker 1: him to disappear, which is like, I don't hate that
Speaker 1: motivation either, But this is like a very like same
Speaker 1: practical motivation at the end of the day, which I
Speaker 1: thought was kind of cool that this movie doesn't really
Speaker 1: like whack you over the head with it, but they
Speaker 1: do like address class to some extent at the beginning,
Speaker 1: with Stephanie, you know, being the I mean like she's
Speaker 1: they're a middle class target family, like they're okay, but
Speaker 1: she's talking about, you know, how she has to live
Speaker 1: off of her her dead husband's life insurance, and how
Speaker 1: there's a lot of budgeting, a lot of money stress
Speaker 1: associated with maintaining her son's quality of life. And then
Speaker 1: you learn about all the Lively debt and just I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's always cool to hear money talked about,
Speaker 1: kind of frankly in a movie, especially like a genre movie. Wait,
Speaker 1: going back to sex really quickly, which is the best
Speaker 1: transitioned little sentence I've ever said, Um, come to think
Speaker 1: of it, the sexually charged moments in the movie that
Speaker 1: you see, like, for example, when when Emily is having
Speaker 1: sex or implied to want sex from her husband because
Speaker 1: there's a scene in the airplane after she revealed that
Speaker 1: she stole his mother's ring Chaos, and then he's like,
Speaker 1: what the fund did you? Like? It was a horrible
Speaker 1: thing for you to do, and she's like, ha ha,
Speaker 1: shut up. Also come into the bathroom and have sex
Speaker 1: with me. So she's like almost using sex is like
Speaker 1: a distraction because she does it again after she like
Speaker 1: reappears and is like, surprise, husband, I'm not dead after all,
Speaker 1: and she like pretends to shoot him with like a
Speaker 1: gun that isn't loaded, and then she's like t he
Speaker 1: he I'll be in the bathroom, coming in twenty seconds
Speaker 1: if you want to have sex with me. Um. I
Speaker 1: honestly was like rooting for her in that moment. I
Speaker 1: was like, what give me the confidence to do that?
Speaker 1: For one minute? Because how could you not? I know,
Speaker 1: like you do want to like in those moments, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I wanna I want to be her in that moment.
Speaker 1: I want to be the person that steals a ring.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, don't worry just have sex when
Speaker 1: you'll forget all about it, you know. But well, compare
Speaker 1: those moments where she's like clearly using sex as like
Speaker 1: a manipulation tactic. Compare that to the kiss that she
Speaker 1: shares with Stephanie, which feels, at least it felt to
Speaker 1: me like it was way more authentic and tender. You
Speaker 1: could make the argument that it's also manipulative on sure
Speaker 1: Emily's part, maybe also Stephanie's part. Hard to say, because
Speaker 1: both of these characters are very complicated and sneaky, and
Speaker 1: they're both like different degrees of fatale, which is kind
Speaker 1: of fun to have, like right, right, Yeah, there's like
Speaker 1: opposites of each other in a lot of ways. I
Speaker 1: feel like, so maybe I'm going back on what I
Speaker 1: like because I wasn't sure the authenticity to Emily's bisexuality,
Speaker 1: but now I'm like, wait, maybe she is perhaps even
Speaker 1: more attracted to women because of that scene versus again,
Speaker 1: like when we see her having sex with her husband,
Speaker 1: it's always like to trick him or like distract him.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't speak to her kinsey scale, but
Speaker 1: I do think she's definitely fIF actual Yeah, I think right,
Speaker 1: But I agree, I think that that I think that
Speaker 1: that moment that she has a Stephanie is since I
Speaker 1: mean when I was watching it again for to prep
Speaker 1: for this podcast, one of the things that I noticed
Speaker 1: is that one because it is a lot longer than
Speaker 1: like just a moment, and too, they both like move
Speaker 1: their hands up to each other's heads to engage further,
Speaker 1: and it's Stephanie that pulls away, like they're both into it.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's part of the fun of
Speaker 1: the movie, is that in another scenario, if like Emily
Speaker 1: hadn't pulled this off or tried to pull the scam like,
Speaker 1: they probably would have been very close. I think that
Speaker 1: they each saw each something in the other that like
Speaker 1: spoke to the side of them they weren't comfortable showing
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. And in that moment, now
Speaker 1: that they kind of like had each other's secrets, it
Speaker 1: was it allowed them to have this closeness that wasn't
Speaker 1: available to them before. Like sure Stephanie was sucking her brother,
Speaker 1: but like she also talked about the fact that after
Speaker 1: they had died, like she hadn't slept with anyone, she
Speaker 1: hadn't been dating, she was too intimidated to go into
Speaker 1: the city or something like she she's alone and she
Speaker 1: is finally opening up about this like presumably like very
Speaker 1: shameful thing in her past to this woman that she
Speaker 1: just met, and that kind of like forced intimacy I think,
Speaker 1: like really did bond them. And I think the that
Speaker 1: Emily would not have come after Stephanie if Stephanie had
Speaker 1: just stopped meddling, right right. But then I also am like,
Speaker 1: but maybe Emily, like I don't know. I ultimately it's
Speaker 1: like I I you can't really Emily, is It's really
Speaker 1: hard to know who if Emily has a genuine feeling
Speaker 1: for really anybody except for her, like that's really the
Speaker 1: only person that you can guarantee, Like she really loved
Speaker 1: her son and would not kill him, but anyone else,
Speaker 1: like she could kill anyone else in her life except
Speaker 1: for her son, who loves to say fuck her son
Speaker 1: says every scene very cute kid um, I forget where
Speaker 1: this is going. Oh oh that line from Stephanie that
Speaker 1: like broke my heart, and I feel like justifies, not justifies,
Speaker 1: I guess contextualizes a lot of her behavior and why
Speaker 1: she goes so like has I think, you know, a
Speaker 1: very outsized reaction to the things that are happening to
Speaker 1: her sometimes where it's just like sometimes with Stephanie, you're like,
Speaker 1: just do nothing, Just go home, you know, like what
Speaker 1: just go home. But she says that thing where she
Speaker 1: says like, I think loneliness probably kills more people than cancer,
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my god, Like she her motivation
Speaker 1: is to some extent to have an honest connection with someone,
Speaker 1: and so it's like when she feels that she has
Speaker 1: that with Emily and then is betrayed, and then feels
Speaker 1: like she has that with Sean, which is like, well,
Speaker 1: what did you think was going to happen? And then
Speaker 1: is betrayed, It's like, of course that's going to like
Speaker 1: spin her way the funk out because her like core
Speaker 1: motivation is to make a meaningful connection with someone that
Speaker 1: she can trust and is clearly not dealing with her
Speaker 1: grief in a meaningful way and has been through so
Speaker 1: much and I don't know, I mean, like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: Stephanie is such a weird character, but that that line
Speaker 1: really got me good. I was like, God, she's just
Speaker 1: she's just really unhappy. She's really really unhapp be And
Speaker 1: so at the end when she starts a like True
Speaker 1: Crime Empire. I'm like, mm hmm, but has she grieved
Speaker 1: likes she you know, I hope that she's like got
Speaker 1: a good therapist now that she's got that Conde Nast money,
Speaker 1: because she could be headed down a dark road. It's
Speaker 1: wunny to say that about connection, though, because I think
Speaker 1: that that is something that she's getting from the True
Speaker 1: Crime Empire, because like, especially now that we've like the
Speaker 1: way that it kind of has metastasized online, like through TikTok.
Speaker 1: Now especially like people aren't just being like, oh, isn't
Speaker 1: that like an interesting story, Like did you hear about it?
Speaker 1: It's like, now like we are the slopes. We will
Speaker 1: solve it. Even though these are people like that you've
Speaker 1: never met. You don't you're not involved in the case.
Speaker 1: You're like finally in states away. But I think people
Speaker 1: feel not just connected, but like this like very not
Speaker 1: good impulse to like get involved in stories in a
Speaker 1: certain way. And I think that you're right that she's
Speaker 1: like ahead of that in the sense that that's exactly
Speaker 1: what she does in this film. Like there was multiple
Speaker 1: pool times in this movie where she could have simply said,
Speaker 1: like this is kind of weird, I think I'm gonna
Speaker 1: like bounce, and she just doesn't because she has to
Speaker 1: have answers. She has to go sleeping, Like she dips
Speaker 1: her kids off with like who whomever the fuck and
Speaker 1: like parts off to go like investigated some camp, like
Speaker 1: no one should get you there, Yeah, no one sent you.
Speaker 1: But she's like spending the money that she can't afford
Speaker 1: really because her husband's insurance money is running out to
Speaker 1: like rent cars and go across the country to like
Speaker 1: figure out what's happening, like sneaking into her parents house
Speaker 1: to figure out what happened to her and her sister.
Speaker 1: I know she's sneaking into Jeane Smart's house. Yes, it
Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with her, Yeah it is.
Speaker 1: I mean it is fucked. And I feel like something
Speaker 1: that they're also engaging with. And maybe someone mentioned this earlier,
Speaker 1: is she's like majorly capitalizing on as is you know,
Speaker 1: Gone Girl and I think Girl on the Train, I
Speaker 1: don't really remember that movie very well, but like capitalizing
Speaker 1: on missing white woman's syndrome and get people very involved
Speaker 1: with this like traditionally beautiful missing white lady and like
Speaker 1: capitalizing on it and building an audience based on it,
Speaker 1: and I don't like it's I wish I kind of
Speaker 1: wish that the movie said that a little more explicitly.
Speaker 1: But I mean that's like definitely what is happening. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, Stephanie is very complicated, Like ultimately I'm
Speaker 1: not rooting for her, but like, what a wounded what
Speaker 1: a wounded soul? My god, But she should have just
Speaker 1: gone home at some point. Yeah. I like the like
Speaker 1: Gone Girl comparison, just specause. I mean I feel like
Speaker 1: that's kind of like the epitome of that genre or
Speaker 1: like that little mini genre that was happening at that time.
Speaker 1: But it like, to me, Stephanie is I think her
Speaker 1: name is Casey Wilson and Gone Girl the next door neighborhoods.
Speaker 1: We were best friends. I know what happened to her.
Speaker 1: Her husband killed her. You have to listen to me,
Speaker 1: like steps that character, except that this movie is from
Speaker 1: her perspective, and so it's like two who ends of
Speaker 1: the same the same story, but we're getting the like
Speaker 1: meddlesome neighbor who's sucking it up instead of the one
Speaker 1: who's trying to scan the money. And I think that's
Speaker 1: really fun just because in both situations like they're they're
Speaker 1: both white women and they're both people. Like I think
Speaker 1: it's some of something that like Sara Marshalls has a
Speaker 1: lot and you're wrong about that, like the justice system
Speaker 1: is like constructed to protect her, or like white women
Speaker 1: in general ostensibly even though it really isn't. But and
Speaker 1: so like in the same way that that Emily is
Speaker 1: leveraging her white womanhood to kind of build this story
Speaker 1: that she is in danger and that someone has harmed
Speaker 1: her and and to to to mobilize people to to
Speaker 1: save her, Stephanie's doing the same thing. It's just from
Speaker 1: a different part of the story. Like it's not just
Speaker 1: that she is looking for her friend and her friend
Speaker 1: is the white person, because I don't think that that
Speaker 1: it's Stephanie was not a white woman that her blog
Speaker 1: would blow up in the same way. I think that
Speaker 1: it's because she is also a white woman who is
Speaker 1: domestic and serene and you know, lovely and feminine that
Speaker 1: vaguely religious. Yes, Yeah, there's even a part where like
Speaker 1: Linda Cardalini is like, oh, I could paint you you
Speaker 1: you seem so pure like a saint, and you know
Speaker 1: she's like talking about her perceived innocence that like, clearly
Speaker 1: people are latching onto because by the end of the movie,
Speaker 1: her blog, her vlog has over a million subscribers, precisely,
Speaker 1: and because all of these people who are watching these blogs,
Speaker 1: like they don't know Emily, They've probably never seen a
Speaker 1: photo of her except for that one raggedy one that
Speaker 1: she pulled out from Cotton Knows where, Like they don't
Speaker 1: know this person, they only know her there. She is
Speaker 1: the one that they're connecting, right, And it's precisely for
Speaker 1: those same reasons. I didn't even think that, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't even have a picture of Emily, so you
Speaker 1: have to fully rely on Stephanie's own like persona in
Speaker 1: order to buy in too. And she is like she's
Speaker 1: fully playing a character in those videos, like I mean
Speaker 1: the way that any of us do to some extent,
Speaker 1: but like she's really she's I mean, she's really going
Speaker 1: for it. It's it's so And I did think it
Speaker 1: was like an interesting detail that her audience becomes engaged
Speaker 1: enough that that is what takes her to Michigan in
Speaker 1: the first place, because that is also something we see
Speaker 1: all the time, is like the online detective is getting
Speaker 1: way too involved, and then you're like this seems dark,
Speaker 1: this is sucked up, and then they solve something and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, what No, you're breaking my brain. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's I just that's how I
Speaker 1: feel about Brittany. Yeah, you're just like I mean, And
Speaker 1: there was in the Gabby Petito case as well recently
Speaker 1: where it was like TikTok made a breakthrough and you're like, guys, stop,
Speaker 1: you're confusing me. Like, I think it is inherently like
Speaker 1: it comes from a good place, but but there's there's
Speaker 1: some darkness there and it's I don't know what's confusing, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, I know we had there was
Speaker 1: that like a week when everyone was like para social
Speaker 1: relationships and they were whining about it. But like, I
Speaker 1: think in some way, like this true crime thing is
Speaker 1: an extension of that, because it's not just like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a mystery and we're going to solve it,
Speaker 1: even though we're like some rounded personal on TikTok, it's like,
Speaker 1: there's a mystery and we're going to solve it, and
Speaker 1: we're going to ascribe motives to the players in the story.
Speaker 1: That we do not know and do not have information
Speaker 1: about based on what are very likely to be like
Speaker 1: raised in class assumptions about people to fit what is
Speaker 1: likely to be a very set true crime frame. Like
Speaker 1: I think they even say, like in the film, in
Speaker 1: the movie, there's a video she does, or she's like,
Speaker 1: oh no, I know you guys think that it's like
Speaker 1: always the husband, but it's not. He's very nice, like
Speaker 1: we're best friends. And it's like, yeah, but that's because
Speaker 1: it usually is the husband, but it obviously wasn't. It
Speaker 1: wasn't in this case. But if we were going strictly
Speaker 1: on like what is the framework of a true crime story,
Speaker 1: it would be him because it's always the intimate butt now.
Speaker 1: And I think that like when we are dealing with
Speaker 1: real life stories, it's like we are not good at
Speaker 1: separating like the general likelihood based on statistics and like
Speaker 1: the specific information. And like I I personally like didn't
Speaker 1: follow the Gappytito case because I was like, I'm uncomfortable
Speaker 1: with like how much speculation is happening based on our
Speaker 1: little information, But like you can't you can't say that,
Speaker 1: you can't be like, sure, this guy seems sketch, but
Speaker 1: that's not proof of anything, because then you all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're like and you know you're you're on
Speaker 1: the side of a murder, and it's like, I don't
Speaker 1: know that he murdered anyone. I don't know anything about
Speaker 1: this case. It's yeah, it's it's extremely extremely complicated, and
Speaker 1: just because it is like maybe statistically likely, doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you should automatically default to ruining someone's life over
Speaker 1: it before you have enough information. And I mean it's
Speaker 1: I mean, we don't have to talk anymore about Gabby
Speaker 1: Petito case in particular, but it's it is like we
Speaker 1: haven't figured it out. That's for funing sure, um and
Speaker 1: it is like it makes me uncomfortable to um engage
Speaker 1: in it because of what you're saying. Case. It's like
Speaker 1: because people are making Yeah, it's real people and the
Speaker 1: internet at large and people at large are always going
Speaker 1: to default to very race and class based assumptions about
Speaker 1: people that can truly like destroy someone's life. And also
Speaker 1: a lot of women are killed by their intimate partners.
Speaker 1: It's just like so complicated, and this movie makes it
Speaker 1: funy Uh, let's take another quick break and then we
Speaker 1: will come right back and we're back. Can we talk
Speaker 1: about Henry Golden's character, because he was also very complicated
Speaker 1: of a character in terms of like he's met. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like suggestions that he's maybe having an affair. We
Speaker 1: see him more or less gas lighting Stephanie when she's
Speaker 1: like it seems like maybe Emily is alive, and he's like,
Speaker 1: let me just call the psychology department because you seem
Speaker 1: cuckoo bananas. Um. You know, there's these different things. But
Speaker 1: then also he does really seem to love his wife
Speaker 1: and like want the best for her. But he's also
Speaker 1: to me, he feels like an unreliable narrator who's not
Speaker 1: the narrator. I guess just he's an unreliable character because
Speaker 1: I'm like, how much does he know? How much is
Speaker 1: he involved in this scheme? Like whose side is he on?
Speaker 1: Is he on anybody's side? There's like a lot of
Speaker 1: But I almost wish we understood better what his situation was,
Speaker 1: because I just left with a bunch of questions about him.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I feel like he's hard
Speaker 1: to read, and like, now that I've seen it a
Speaker 1: couple of times, it's more obvious to me that he
Speaker 1: isn't involved in genuinely doesn't know anything, but if you're
Speaker 1: watching it for the first time, like, it's very easy
Speaker 1: to think that he's in on it and gaslighting her.
Speaker 1: Because the thing that the one thing that I will
Speaker 1: say in defense of him is that I don't think
Speaker 1: that he was gaslighting Stephanie only because he genuinely believe
Speaker 1: his wife was dead and so he was wrong, but
Speaker 1: he wasn't trying to trick her. It wasn't intentionally Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: So that that's the one thing I was in defense
Speaker 1: of him. On the other hand, I think that it
Speaker 1: is very suspicious, and I think the movie plays on
Speaker 1: that that he is just really real happy about moving on,
Speaker 1: Like it does not take him two seconds. He's like
Speaker 1: less moving like I want to be with you. You're
Speaker 1: the person that makes me the one the man that
Speaker 1: I want to be And I'm like, girl, like your
Speaker 1: your wife just died. Slow down for two seconds. Like
Speaker 1: he is very sketched. And also feel like that's not
Speaker 1: very considerate of her either of like yeah, and like
Speaker 1: on the one hand, it's like men do that they're
Speaker 1: very bad at being alone, but on the other she's
Speaker 1: literally her best friend maybe chill for two seconds, because like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what the timeline is on this movie,
Speaker 1: but it does seem very fast. It does. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: again that's what makes it all the wilder than it's like, Oh,
Speaker 1: it does seem like Stephanie is sharing all of these
Speaker 1: details with her vlog audience that really like, if I whatever,
Speaker 1: we're all there. But if I were like moving in
Speaker 1: with my quote unquote best friend who I've only met
Speaker 1: five times, by the way, but it was really intense
Speaker 1: five five hangouts. Um, but like, if you're moving into
Speaker 1: I would not tell anybody. I would not tell anyone
Speaker 1: much less because anyone who wanted to know, because at
Speaker 1: one point she does her vlog from Emily and Shawn's
Speaker 1: kitchen and anyone who's like paying attention and be like
Speaker 1: whose kitchen are you in? Like why? But yeah, that
Speaker 1: they both needed to just simmer down a bit. But um,
Speaker 1: but then it also is like, again I don't want to,
Speaker 1: but it's like Stephanie is so motivated by being deeply
Speaker 1: lonely that I feel like it's also like Sean and
Speaker 1: it's I couldn't tell. I was like, does Sean know
Speaker 1: her well enough to know that he's kind of like
Speaker 1: triggering something in her by pushing this relationship for it
Speaker 1: so quickly, it doesn't seem like he does know enough.
Speaker 1: I feel like he just doesn't know enough information about anyone.
Speaker 1: He doesn't. I feel like he doesn't he doesn't know
Speaker 1: where any better than Emily did. She just took care
Speaker 1: of his kid a couple of times. Like that's it's
Speaker 1: like they don't know each other and they have that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they have that like one hot moment and then they
Speaker 1: sleep together and like that's great, but that's when enough
Speaker 1: to up end your life and move your kid out
Speaker 1: of his house. And I understand her motivation because you're right,
Speaker 1: like she's lonely, but that doesn't explain to his behavior.
Speaker 1: I feel like he just moves so fast. And I
Speaker 1: think that the movie does like use that as a
Speaker 1: way to kind of like raise suspicion about him and
Speaker 1: like kind of you know, um misdirect the audience. But
Speaker 1: he's so like like even even when Emily finally comes
Speaker 1: back and reveals herself to him, and then when the
Speaker 1: detectives find out about it after she comes back on purpose,
Speaker 1: he asked him like, well, so you knew that she
Speaker 1: was alive and you didn't like say anything, And I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's suspicious. Why didn't you say anything? Like I don't write.
Speaker 1: Why would you not mention that, especially given that he
Speaker 1: spent the last couple of weeks of like of Stephanie
Speaker 1: being like she's alive, I promise she's alive and him
Speaker 1: being like, no, she's definitely dead. You now know that
Speaker 1: she was right, So why wouldn't you say anything? Right?
Speaker 1: Which is like my first feeling in particular, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy is like guilty as fuck, Like why I
Speaker 1: still don't quite get Sean eludes me. He eludes me,
Speaker 1: and every time thing I think that he's just very
Speaker 1: very silly. What a goofy guy. They're like, yeah, like
Speaker 1: I do think it's fun, Like he is kind of
Speaker 1: the element that he's kind of this like one hit
Speaker 1: wonder kind of guy, where like he wrote a book
Speaker 1: what presumably in his early twenties and now he's like
Speaker 1: in his mid thirties, Like I'm really getting around to it,
Speaker 1: you know any second now? Is Oh I know that
Speaker 1: guy that I am that guy? I feel like sometimes
Speaker 1: you are that guy. Um, well, let's talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about Emily and her um, her background because there
Speaker 1: because there's in the back half of this movie, Holy
Speaker 1: sh it, there's a lot that comes up. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of twists and turns as it pertains
Speaker 1: to Emily. I think one of the first things we
Speaker 1: learn about Emily that is never like explicitly stated. It
Speaker 1: is explicitly stated about her twin but not her, is
Speaker 1: that she has substance abuse issues. She is constantly drunk
Speaker 1: during the day. It's clearly had an effect on her marriage.
Speaker 1: She seems to be aware of this. She also seems
Speaker 1: to be aware that it's had an effect on her parenting.
Speaker 1: But it also, like I thought it was interesting the
Speaker 1: way that's presented, because it is reference constantly that it
Speaker 1: is like a detriment to her family um, But in
Speaker 1: the same way, it's also presented as like part of
Speaker 1: what makes her a cool from fatal character, which I
Speaker 1: just think is I guess I don't really know, Like
Speaker 1: many things in this movie, I don't know which which
Speaker 1: way to really fall on how I feel about that.
Speaker 1: I do think it's interesting that both sides of that
Speaker 1: coin are presented to the viewer of like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: she's drinking a handle of vodka a day, but doesn't
Speaker 1: she look good doing it? And you're like, well, yes,
Speaker 1: but also her like I mean that moment like after
Speaker 1: she quote unquote dies but doesn't where Sean like has
Speaker 1: a moment where he's angry about it and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you miss your mom, like that lady who got drunk
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day all the time, And
Speaker 1: you're like, yikes. This is like this family is like
Speaker 1: was truly affected, but it's not really. It's it's weird
Speaker 1: because it's presented as a genuine substance abuse issue with
Speaker 1: her mother and her twin sister who also had issues
Speaker 1: with abusing drugs, um and drug addiction. But when it
Speaker 1: comes to Emily, it's cool. Question Mark, that was one
Speaker 1: thing that was like one thing. I was like, I agree, Actually,
Speaker 1: it's because it wasn't until you just said that I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, she was like fully an alcoholic,
Speaker 1: Like it just dawned on me. Which is not a
Speaker 1: judgment statement, but it's like it seems to be inherent
Speaker 1: to that character. Yeah. I wonder if this is commentary
Speaker 1: or not. Let me know what you think, but I
Speaker 1: wonder if it's like a because of the class component.
Speaker 1: People perceive substance abuse differently depending on your class. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of a joke from Rock. Well, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's for sure true. So I don't know if the
Speaker 1: way it's being presented in this movie is commentary on
Speaker 1: that or not, if it's just sort of like leaning
Speaker 1: into that without really commenting on it. But it reminds
Speaker 1: me of this joke in thirty Rock, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to butcher it because I don't remember it exactly, but
Speaker 1: it's something like Alec Baldwin is like, oh, it's just
Speaker 1: like being business drunk and it's like legal to drive
Speaker 1: when you're The implication being if you're wealthy enough, you
Speaker 1: can be drunk and drive or do whatever and you
Speaker 1: won't face any repercussions because of your like elevated privilege
Speaker 1: in class and stuff like that. So because Emily has
Speaker 1: this like high powered job and she's drinking fancy martinis
Speaker 1: and like doing them in a very fancy way, it's
Speaker 1: like not as easy to perceive her as you know,
Speaker 1: someone who's struggling with substance abuse issues, versus her twin sister,
Speaker 1: who has clearly been like down on her luck for
Speaker 1: several years and is uh, you know, financially struggling, and
Speaker 1: her substance abuse is much more apparent because of that.
Speaker 1: So I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what the
Speaker 1: movie is like saying about it, if anything. And Jeane
Speaker 1: Smarts character as well, who we see drinking and who
Speaker 1: we're told explicitly on screen like, oh, she shouldn't be drinking.
Speaker 1: So I did think it was interesting that they went
Speaker 1: and this again at like, this is not a universal truth,
Speaker 1: but it is certainly something that happens of you know,
Speaker 1: substance abuse being a hereditary issue, and so I thought
Speaker 1: it was interesting that you saw that her mother is
Speaker 1: clearly struggling with something similar. But again it's just like
Speaker 1: to what end, It doesn't really play out in Emily's
Speaker 1: character at all. You're sort of you sort of assumed
Speaker 1: that if she didn't go to prison, she would continue
Speaker 1: day drinking indefinitely and it would always be really sexy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think for me, I think Jane smot is the
Speaker 1: reason why I would say that, I don't think that
Speaker 1: it's meant to be class commentary only because for me,
Speaker 1: what made it obvious that the sister and the mom
Speaker 1: are struggling substance versus Emily is that Emily is always
Speaker 1: in control of her faculties. Like when we meet Faith,
Speaker 1: she looks strung out, she looks like she's been using
Speaker 1: drugs um, she's emaciated, her hair as a mess, and
Speaker 1: similar to Jane Spot's character the mom she is, you know,
Speaker 1: she's like in a dizzie she's lying around the how
Speaker 1: was like she she looks like she is under the influence,
Speaker 1: as opposed to Emily, who's just like sexily doing sexy
Speaker 1: things with a Martinique pass. And it makes me think
Speaker 1: of Olivia Pope from Scandal, who like also drunk exorbitant
Speaker 1: amount the time, but like the functioning alcoholic of all time, right,
Speaker 1: and she but like she's always in control, like that's
Speaker 1: that's her thing. And so that was another show where
Speaker 1: it didn't occur to me that like she literally only
Speaker 1: eats popcorn and drinks wine like she is an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't like it doesn't like register because she's
Speaker 1: she's always in control. She's never having um, you know,
Speaker 1: like accidents or getting black out drunk or throwing up
Speaker 1: everywhere or missing meetings like the one time that she
Speaker 1: ever spilled wine on her white couches because she was
Speaker 1: kidnapped by the deep state, like it like so you
Speaker 1: never like because of that. I think that it's the
Speaker 1: it's the the depiction of those characters as like fully
Speaker 1: in control of their faculties that makes the difference in
Speaker 1: whether or not you perceived them as having a substance
Speaker 1: to this problem, because like Black Live is tall, Carrie
Speaker 1: Washington is like smaller but like not a very tall person.
Speaker 1: Like the volumes of alcohol that she was allegedly consuming
Speaker 1: should have her flat on her back, right, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: And it's I mean I think that that is like
Speaker 1: like whatever fictional signaling that that play. I mean, at
Speaker 1: least in the case of Scandal, I mean, it for
Speaker 1: sure just plays into like this is the trope rich
Speaker 1: people can drink forever and still be the greatest people
Speaker 1: in the world. And I don't know the Scandal, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what, find whatever, I'm gonna keep watching it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep watching it before I go to bed.
Speaker 1: So it's above reproach. But but yeah, I mean, in
Speaker 1: this case, it's just I with Scandal, it makes more
Speaker 1: sense to me because it's not like there are a
Speaker 1: lot of clear foils to that logic. Like it's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is Olivia Pope. This is like the in this
Speaker 1: world you can drink wine all day and still be
Speaker 1: the most high functioning, amazing person on the planet. And
Speaker 1: that is just true here where we are. But in
Speaker 1: this movie it's like both things are true. You can
Speaker 1: like I don't know again, I just like I just
Speaker 1: thought it was interesting when they went, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: until like they went as far as to show you
Speaker 1: that her mother also seems to be an alcoholic maybe
Speaker 1: and recovering alcoholic TOSM extent. It's just and and and
Speaker 1: she says over and over that it's like she's a
Speaker 1: bad mother. And that's another thing about Emily's character that
Speaker 1: I mean Emily, like that scene where she looks so beautiful,
Speaker 1: like but she shows up, like the scene where Anna
Speaker 1: Kendrick takes her picture and she says all these like
Speaker 1: casually like brutal things about herself in a very casual
Speaker 1: way where she's just like the best thing I can
Speaker 1: do for my son is to blow my brains out,
Speaker 1: and like, don't denigrate your good parenting to make up
Speaker 1: for my shitty parenting, Like she's saying like I'm a
Speaker 1: bad parent, like saying like really really gnarly stuff. So
Speaker 1: it's like she knows, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's just weird. I like it. I like it, but
Speaker 1: it's weird. Yeah, I think because at that point in
Speaker 1: the movie we don't know any of the backstory, and
Speaker 1: I think it's supposed to be part of her charm
Speaker 1: that she's like, no, parenting is hard, like I'm bad
Speaker 1: at it, and like it's supposed to be like I'm
Speaker 1: telling the truth things that like no one wants to say,
Speaker 1: as opposed to like no, I'm actually a neglectful person
Speaker 1: to my child and we don't know that until later.
Speaker 1: Because even even Stephanie's like no, I think you're a
Speaker 1: great mom. But that's also part of just like social graces, right,
Speaker 1: Like you don't someone says something shitty about themselves, You
Speaker 1: don't it's not true. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. O. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess you are really late. So so I'm not.
Speaker 1: I feel like I think you're right that like she
Speaker 1: does know, But I think that's that's also part of
Speaker 1: like the fun that Emily has, like saying the true
Speaker 1: things out loud, and like making people squirm the first
Speaker 1: few lines of dialogue out of her mouth, and then
Speaker 1: like a couple of scenes beyond that, she's saying, like
Speaker 1: I was laughing. She's like, I can't have a play
Speaker 1: date with you, boring mom, mommy lady, I have a
Speaker 1: play date with the symphony of antidepressants. And then her
Speaker 1: son's like, you never let me do anything fun, and
Speaker 1: Emily's like, that's not true. I let you rip my
Speaker 1: labia when I pushed you out of my body. You know,
Speaker 1: like all this stuff, You're just like, wow, I deliciously
Speaker 1: grass my best friend or be my wife, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: She should she should be the writer in this family,
Speaker 1: not Sean. Right, that is always fun when a writer
Speaker 1: has like a way more interesting partner. And I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess I know where you're getting all this ship from.
Speaker 1: That you just have a factory of material with you.
Speaker 1: Emily's everybody's muse. She is, She's some people just walk
Speaker 1: in the light like that, And I guess that that
Speaker 1: that also does like that also ties into her whole
Speaker 1: like stop apologizing her annoyance with which is like, alright,
Speaker 1: it's weird. When we're recording this, it already does feel
Speaker 1: like a very eighteen thing to like girls stop apologizing.
Speaker 1: But but in the in the world of this movie,
Speaker 1: I think it works, and the way that Emily presents it,
Speaker 1: and then the way that Stephanie takes it to such
Speaker 1: an extreme that at the end she puts her best
Speaker 1: friend in jail, and it's like, oh, I'm not sorry,
Speaker 1: Like I thought that. There is like a good amount
Speaker 1: of commentary there on like, yes, women, like women are
Speaker 1: socially conditioned to apologize a lot, but but sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you do something sucked up you have to apologize.
Speaker 1: Because Emily says to Stephanie, don't apologize, it's a fucked
Speaker 1: up female habit. You don't need to be sorry for
Speaker 1: anything ever, And it's like, well that's not that part,
Speaker 1: isn't true, Like sometimes you like probably should apologize, right
Speaker 1: and not if you're a chaotic by sexual No. Oh man,
Speaker 1: this whole conversation is making me like the movie even more.
Speaker 1: Um uh, what else we got? What else we got?
Speaker 1: I find it interesting And maybe this comment isn't even
Speaker 1: totally fair. But this is a movie about female friendship
Speaker 1: more or less. But it's basically a movie where if
Speaker 1: two women try to be friends. Look what happens, but
Speaker 1: cautionary tale, which wouldn't be that big of a deal.
Speaker 1: But there are so many movies like this that hinge
Speaker 1: on a narrative of like two women meeting and then
Speaker 1: ending up hating each other or ending up like trying
Speaker 1: to screw each other over. Usually those stories are written
Speaker 1: by men, because men don't understand um things. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but I guess that's why it doesn't bother me as
Speaker 1: much here, because I understand why they don't. Like I mean,
Speaker 1: that's really all I mean. And I do think that
Speaker 1: there should be more move you know, media in general,
Speaker 1: where it's just like women being friends and connecting with
Speaker 1: each other. I just record something about Little Women where
Speaker 1: you're just like, oh, yeah, like watching women meaningfully connect
Speaker 1: with each other and occasionally how conflict is like, oh,
Speaker 1: it is such a really corner of the world to
Speaker 1: live in. But I do feel like in the case
Speaker 1: of this movie, I don't know all I want, like,
Speaker 1: if there are women in conflict, amazing. I just want
Speaker 1: to be able to wrap my head around why, like
Speaker 1: and sometimes with the men, with with the way that
Speaker 1: men right conflict between women, It just don't you're like
Speaker 1: this doesn't you don't understand, like that's that's very underdeveloped
Speaker 1: or like dissonant. But in this case, yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: feel like they're in conflict so much. Is that that
Speaker 1: they're at cross purposes. Like it's less that Stephanie is
Speaker 1: like against Emily or vice versa. It's more that, like
Speaker 1: one is trying to achieve something specific, the other is
Speaker 1: also trying to achieve something specific, and they both can't
Speaker 1: achieve the same thing or achieve their thing if the
Speaker 1: other person wins. So it's not that they're against each other.
Speaker 1: It's that they're trying to accomplish their goals, and their
Speaker 1: goals are contradictory. Right, that's it. That that's a perfect
Speaker 1: way to put it. I don't know, Yeah, it it
Speaker 1: didn't ping for me in this movie in particular, but
Speaker 1: I do. I mean, that's still obviously like a thing
Speaker 1: that still happens too frequently. Sure, yeah, yeah, does anyone
Speaker 1: have any other thoughts? I feel like we've just scratched
Speaker 1: the surface of this. I definitely just mentioned I noticed that.
Speaker 1: I mean, there is a fair amount of diversity in
Speaker 1: this cast, but it I mean, obviously, is this like
Speaker 1: you know, Battle of wits between these two white ladies,
Speaker 1: and they're like the queer characters and people of color,
Speaker 1: with the exception of Henry Golding, are kept on the
Speaker 1: comedic margins of the movie. There's like, there's so many
Speaker 1: good players that it's like I wish that, you know,
Speaker 1: like a part of nancial Or's there and use a
Speaker 1: mar I mean, Andrew Rails does get to hit Black
Speaker 1: Lively with a car so and then he gets out
Speaker 1: and he says, America's hybrids silent but deadly. And I'm like, like,
Speaker 1: I love any time that their ad screen. I just
Speaker 1: always have like, okay, give a word to do that,
Speaker 1: you know, but you know, you get you get to
Speaker 1: see them smoking a bong, you get to see Andrew
Speaker 1: Reynolds hit like Lively with a pre as you know,
Speaker 1: you do get some stuff. But yeah, I just felt
Speaker 1: like that was worth mentioning. Sure, I would like to
Speaker 1: mention that instead of a close trying on montage, there
Speaker 1: is a getting rid of clothes montage. Wow. But then
Speaker 1: that also confused me because we see that montage where
Speaker 1: Stephanie is getting she has moved into Emily's house, she
Speaker 1: clears out her closet, but then like she comes in
Speaker 1: whatever the next day or something like that, and all
Speaker 1: of Emily's stuff is back where it was. Is that
Speaker 1: to suggest that Emily like snuck in during the night
Speaker 1: and like put all of her clothes and shoes back.
Speaker 1: I hope, So, I think so right. I didn't even
Speaker 1: get that it was a different day because I was like,
Speaker 1: how did you do that? That bast that's weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought it was in this space went downstairs, I know,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, was this like a dream sequence? Like
Speaker 1: I was so confused by the whole thing. But anyway,
Speaker 1: we do see a getting rid of clothes montage, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I think that that's different. That's kind
Speaker 1: of funny too, because I I because we just had
Speaker 1: this like huge fem fay talel tropes discussion and how
Speaker 1: they're like sometimes perceived as being like kind of witchy
Speaker 1: characters that have magic. I think I just bought into
Speaker 1: that trope in that moment. I'm like, yeah, like Lively
Speaker 1: scrambled upstairs and put everything out there, of course you did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's her sense to me. Wow, Wow, I got femay
Speaker 1: tale pilled in that moment. Wow. Yeah, does anyone have
Speaker 1: anything else they want to talk about. I don't know.
Speaker 1: We talked about a lot. I don't know. I'm satisfied.
Speaker 1: I'm satisfied as well. And the movie, I mean, gang,
Speaker 1: does this movie pass the Bechtel test? Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: super does. I would say more often than not. Maybe
Speaker 1: possibly kind of a rare example of a movie. Yeah
Speaker 1: that more conversations pass than don't. I mean, I haven't
Speaker 1: done the math the heart math on that, so don't
Speaker 1: quote me on it. This is not a math podcast.
Speaker 1: Is math podcast is not a book podcast, So relax.
Speaker 1: But it's just the girls circling up. And now I'm
Speaker 1: I'm I'm bisexual. I don't do math, but you do
Speaker 1: understand chaos theory because of how chaotic bisexuals are. It's
Speaker 1: just in me. Yeah, you are a scientist, you just
Speaker 1: don't do math. Um. Yes, definitely does pass the Becktel test.
Speaker 1: As far as our nipple scale zero to five nipples
Speaker 1: based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens,
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I simply I simply don't know about a
Speaker 1: simple favor. I guess I would give this, like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's rare. The movie where two women are the main
Speaker 1: players is like such a complicated and challenging and interesting
Speaker 1: movie that generates such an interesting discussion that alone makes
Speaker 1: me want to give it like three and a half
Speaker 1: or four nipples, maybe because even though I still don't
Speaker 1: quite know what to make of it, I do kind
Speaker 1: of part of me wanted the movie to end differently,
Speaker 1: where like the two women realize, wow, we actually are
Speaker 1: best friends, and um, we would stand a better chance
Speaker 1: if we just like team up and get rid of
Speaker 1: this goofball husband guy who will just apparently have sex
Speaker 1: with any woman nearby. Uh So let's screw him over
Speaker 1: and then team up and whatever, just like collect that
Speaker 1: four million dollars and have a ball and keep kissing
Speaker 1: each other. Um. That might have been like too silly
Speaker 1: and like to like girl power of an ending, but
Speaker 1: that is kind of what I was hoping for. Um,
Speaker 1: the heart wants what the heart wants. I know. Even so,
Speaker 1: it was a challenging, interesting movie. I appreciate a lot
Speaker 1: of what it was doing, as far as like commentary
Speaker 1: on like you know, middle class, upper middle class white
Speaker 1: lady being a girl boss, like because I mean, we
Speaker 1: don't really see Stephanie have any Karen moments, but she
Speaker 1: strikes me as like such a Karen. I feel like
Speaker 1: talking to the Boss was the Karen of it. That's true,
Speaker 1: It's true, Yeah, discount or was it low Rent tom Ford?
Speaker 1: That was? That was her? So yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: the commentary on that. That's that's all interesting to me.
Speaker 1: I wish there were more movies just that celebrate female
Speaker 1: friendship and um don't suggest that they're kind of doomed.
Speaker 1: But you know, even so, this is a fun movie.
Speaker 1: I'll give it three and a half nipples. I'll give
Speaker 1: one to Henry Golding, not his character, but just him
Speaker 1: as an actor because I love him. I'll give one
Speaker 1: to a partner on Charla. I will give one to
Speaker 1: the prius that runs over Blake Live Lad. I'll give
Speaker 1: my half nipple to um. I think there are the
Speaker 1: two little boys were playing with teenage mutant Ninja Turtle
Speaker 1: toys at some point. Hell yeah, so I'll give my
Speaker 1: half nipple to Turtle Toys. Does it Ninja Turtles? Because
Speaker 1: I'm like, when are we going to cover a Ninja
Speaker 1: Turtles movie? You've never asked, we should do it. I
Speaker 1: will Secret of the Use Baby. There's a new one
Speaker 1: coming out next year. I think that's our time to
Speaker 1: shine anyway, So those are that's my nipple distribution. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm tempted to go for here. I mean, and maybe
Speaker 1: it's just because I had such a delightful time, but
Speaker 1: and I think it also because I think I am
Speaker 1: going to go for partially because we and maybe I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have if we hadn't just covered a different noir.
Speaker 1: And it was really interesting to see how whatever seventy
Speaker 1: plus years of the genre kind of built and evolved
Speaker 1: the way that umm fatales can be presented and the
Speaker 1: amount of depth that they can have, and even like
Speaker 1: comparing this movie to the nineteen forties more that we covered,
Speaker 1: like how just replacing a motivation being inherently connected to
Speaker 1: a man and changing it to like this very complicated,
Speaker 1: fucked up relationship with the women in her life, like
Speaker 1: on the whole if reviewing Emily as the protagonist, she
Speaker 1: has a fox up relationship with Stephanie, she has a
Speaker 1: really complicated relationship with her sister. She has a really
Speaker 1: complicated relationship with her mom, and that seems to be
Speaker 1: more what drives her to behave the way she does
Speaker 1: versus her relationship with men. But she's still very much
Speaker 1: a fem fatale, which I just I don't know. I
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting. And then I also think that
Speaker 1: the modern you know, the kind of mommy vlogger criticism
Speaker 1: while also giving her depth that you can kind of
Speaker 1: like or dislike, was really strong. I at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, this is still a movie that hinges
Speaker 1: on the lives of two white women who have access
Speaker 1: to everything they need. They're not um you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's good that they discuss money and that they
Speaker 1: are having I don't think it's good that they're having money,
Speaker 1: but you know what I mean. But ultimately, like this
Speaker 1: is a kind of movie that's like it's subverting some
Speaker 1: things and then others it's sort of no, but it's
Speaker 1: a but I like it. We contain multitudes, We contain multitudes,
Speaker 1: and I do. And again it's this is a kind
Speaker 1: of like, very very specific subgenre that I hope continues
Speaker 1: to develop, maybe not like right away, but down the line,
Speaker 1: I would like to see more movies like this, and
Speaker 1: maybe you know, start women of color, maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit less of the completely depraved bisexual trope. Perhaps a
Speaker 1: woman could direct question Mark. I mean, let's really shoot
Speaker 1: for the stars here, but I do. I mean in
Speaker 1: terms of like a half step in progress. I think
Speaker 1: it's cool that you know, all three of these movies
Speaker 1: that we were kind of referencing throughout this episode, we're
Speaker 1: based on stories by women and were adapted by women,
Speaker 1: which you certainly weren't getting earlier in the genre. And
Speaker 1: it seems to show, Um, I like this movie. Uh.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'm taking an l by giving it four nipples,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to go for it. I'm going to
Speaker 1: give one to Blake and give one Blake's twin. Oh no, sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give three to the triplets. Uh, and then
Speaker 1: I'll give I'll give my last one to a partner.
Speaker 1: And That's what I'm gonna do. Kate, So I love
Speaker 1: this movie because I've already said I mean, like I
Speaker 1: think I mentioned it before we got on the mix,
Speaker 1: but I have the poster for this film like framed
Speaker 1: and up in my apartment. But I love this movie.
Speaker 1: It forced me to stop calling like Lively Plantation Barbie,
Speaker 1: and I just I feel like it's one of those
Speaker 1: like media prophecies that has like enough of like a
Speaker 1: queer sensibility that it's like it's almost like gaydar, Like
Speaker 1: the movie is like signaling to you in ways that
Speaker 1: are not necessarily apparent, but are obviously if you know
Speaker 1: what you're looking for. And I love stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And I had known long before now that, like I
Speaker 1: always like the character that's like a little bit gy,
Speaker 1: like Blair was my favorite on Gossip Girl, Like I
Speaker 1: love the mean character. I love the character who is
Speaker 1: like quick with a sharp bird, And I just feel
Speaker 1: like I got so much of that out of this
Speaker 1: film that I really enjoyed. Plus, I love a mystery.
Speaker 1: I love a good twist. There's it's so rare that
Speaker 1: like a movie surprises me anymore, even if I really
Speaker 1: enjoy them, And like, this is one of the few
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years that I didn't know
Speaker 1: what was going to happen next, and I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: that ride. So asked for my nipples, I'm gonna just
Speaker 1: slightly differently. I'm going to dock a nipple for Emily
Speaker 1: not winning in the end, because I think that the
Speaker 1: crivalent should always win, And I'm gonna dock a half
Speaker 1: nipple for the black cop trope because I hate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then as for my other three and a half.
Speaker 1: I'm going to give one to Emily Suits. I'm going
Speaker 1: to give another one to Paul Figs Walking Kane, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give one to the cousin kid Nikki because kids
Speaker 1: swearing as alway hilarious. And my other half in the boat,
Speaker 1: I will give to Blake Lively's line reading of brotherfucker Yeah,
Speaker 1: which one I like? Maybe has a catch phrase it's fun.
Speaker 1: They should have been on the poster. But okay, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being here. Oh my god, what
Speaker 1: a treat me so fun. Thanks for doing us the favor,
Speaker 1: the simple favors of being a guest on the show.
Speaker 1: And now we're going to disappear for a long time
Speaker 1: and always not to chat to murder you for a
Speaker 1: million dollars. Thank you so much. Look, I would understand.
Speaker 1: Just please use the correct photo when I'm killed. That's
Speaker 1: all I have. Yeah, will email you the photos that
Speaker 1: we approve of. Yeah, where can people follow you on
Speaker 1: social media? Check out your writing, check out anything that
Speaker 1: you'd like to plug. Sure, um, you can find me
Speaker 1: on various social media platforms at batty ma'amselle. Let's be
Speaker 1: a t C Y M E m Z E double
Speaker 1: l E. If you can't find me, I'm not there.
Speaker 1: UM and my website which is Kate dash Young dot
Speaker 1: com and more frequently UM. I published a weekly newsletter
Speaker 1: with my friend Zusha called thirty flirty and Fine. It's
Speaker 1: on sub stack and film. Oh my god, what did
Speaker 1: I say that wrong? Thirty flirty and film that sub
Speaker 1: stack um. And every week we published two film reviews
Speaker 1: that we write in thirty minutes or less, probably more,
Speaker 1: But we don't tell you because it's ours and we
Speaker 1: can make whatever rules you want. You're full of secrets. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're just lying. Um. But but that's really fun. And
Speaker 1: our our last issue was, uh, the reviewed Benedetta, which
Speaker 1: just came out. That's a lesbian none movie. It's super fun, um,
Speaker 1: and so she covered UM. I forget what it's called
Speaker 1: the non documentary. Oh my god, I forget what it's
Speaker 1: about that. They're like kick ass nuns. I'm not sure,
Speaker 1: but it's like they're like kick ass nuns who like
Speaker 1: protest and ship and I'm like, yeah, more Catholic nuns
Speaker 1: need to say fuck you to the pope. But it's
Speaker 1: really fun. We have a lot of fun doing it. UM.
Speaker 1: I like to pretend like it's not stressful because I
Speaker 1: enjoy making work for myself relatable content. You can follow
Speaker 1: us on Twitter and Instagram at bechtel Cast. You can
Speaker 1: check out our Matreon that's at patreon dot com slash
Speaker 1: spectel cast. It gets you two bonus episodes every month,
Speaker 1: plus the whole back catalog of bonus episodes and it's
Speaker 1: five dollars per month. Wow. You can also fulfill all
Speaker 1: your merchandizing needs at t public dot com slash factel cast.
Speaker 1: And with that, um, do you want to jump in
Speaker 1: the lake? Nothing, nothing weird going on. Just let's let's
Speaker 1: go for a swim. You know this sounds like a
Speaker 1: plan to me. Okay, only if I got a fancy
Speaker 1: time in ring there. Okay, it's a deal. Bye bye
Speaker 1: bye