1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 2: Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast It could Happen here. 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 2: It's a podcast about the world falling apart and people 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: putting it back together. Today we've got a little bit 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: of both. I'm joined again by Mick and Rose. This 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: time we'll be discussing the treatment of migrants inside the 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: European Union, and specifically the treatment of migrants by the 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: government of the Netherlands in a place called ter Apple. 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 3: Welcome to the show, guys. Thanks, thanks for joining us. 10 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 4: Thanks good to be back, Thanks for having us. 11 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, it's good to have you. I wonder 12 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 3: if you could begin. 13 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: We were talking about this before you recorded, and I 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: think it's very Obviously the migration laws in Europe are 15 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: very different, but so are the situations with regard to 16 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: shelter and just like facilities, with the US being so big, 17 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: we have them dotted all over the place. So you 18 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: were just explaining that this is a place where anyone 19 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 2: who wants to register for asylum in the Netherlands has 20 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: to go. 21 00:00:58,600 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 3: Is that right? 22 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's almost entirely right. So everyone who arrives 23 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 5: in the Nods and wants to ask for asylum has 24 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 5: to go to this village all the way on the 25 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 5: northeastern border with Germany, and that's where the only registration 26 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 5: center is for most asylum seekers. I believe only people 27 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 5: who do family reunification can go somewhere else. But yeah, 28 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 5: we have like one registration center for the entire country. 29 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 5: And yeah, yeah, I mean we have a tiny country, 30 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 5: but it still became a huge bubblenreck because it was 31 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 5: the only one. So it didn't work out. 32 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: That well apparently, and that's why we're talking about it, right, 33 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: So just so people understand where these people are in 34 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: their asylum journey, Like they've entered the EU, right, and 35 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: then they've traveled to the Netlans, which is a country 36 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: where they want to claim asylum. 37 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 3: Is that right? 38 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. So basically they arrived at their final destination. 39 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 5: So most people that I met inter Apple had already 40 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 5: been traveling for weeks, months, sometimes years, depending on how 41 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 5: much money and luck they had. Usually so yeah, they 42 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 5: would have either crossed the Mediterranean Sea or gotten into 43 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 5: Europe through Turkey or Belarus, and then they would have 44 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 5: crossed many many borders and many many border guards and fences, yep, 45 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 5: and they would have gotten stuck in places for weeks 46 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 5: or months before they could move on again. Yeah, and 47 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 5: people who would actually go to the registration center in 48 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 5: the Netherlands, that means they wanted to ask for asylum 49 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 5: there and probably stay there. 50 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 2: Right, that would be like the country of residents going forward. 51 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 2: So can you explain I mean, I'm looking at pictures 52 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: of it right now. It's not hard. If you want 53 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: to look up pictures, you can spell it t ER 54 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: A p E L. But can you explain the condition said, 55 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: because looking at it, it's atrocious, like. 56 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 3: From the pictures I can see, Yeah. 57 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 5: I mean I saw many pictures before I went myself. 58 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 5: It's basically just a tense camp. So, I mean it's 59 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 5: a it's a shelter, right, So it's like it used 60 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 5: to be an army base. It can hold two thousand people. 61 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 5: It has loads of like small housing units where people live. 62 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 5: It has like a lot of offices for all the 63 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 5: registration steps and like the yeah, the immigration service, the police, 64 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 5: the shelter organization like blah blah, blah, bah blah. But 65 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 5: so like one and a half year ago, there was 66 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 5: a lack of shelter in the whole country, but specifically 67 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 5: also in the Apple And yeah, somehow the authorities decided 68 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 5: that the solution would be to just leave people on 69 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 5: the field that was inside of the registration in front 70 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 5: of the registration center, and so there was just an 71 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 5: informal camp, like people were sleeping outside for weeks or months, 72 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 5: not even intents, but they would have like huge kind 73 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 5: of banners or tarps that would kind of provide some shade. 74 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 5: So it was like mids was a very dry summer, 75 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 5: which for us was crazy lucky. The climate activists were 76 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 5: not happy. 77 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: But we were happy. 78 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, So yeah, people were just like laying on the 79 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 5: ground and that was. Yeah. There were some that water 80 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 5: that were like dixies for toilets that were obviously gross, 81 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 5: and so yeah, what you would see if you google it, 82 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 5: you just see people lying on the field and just 83 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 5: being there for extended periods of time. But when I 84 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 5: personally went there the first time, it was kind of 85 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 5: worse than what I expected it to be because I 86 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 5: think the level of neglect was not visible on photo 87 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 5: or on video. So people would come to us and 88 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 5: tell us that they had show us really big wounds 89 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 5: that were infected, or people would come and tell us like, hey, 90 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 5: I had a heart attack. A few weeks ago. I 91 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 5: need this medication or I have diabetes or whatever. So 92 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 5: there was just this dystopian situation of this enormous facility 93 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 5: that can hold thousands of people and then a big 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 5: fence around it, and then people with clearly like very 95 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 5: serious medical conditions just standing in front of the gate 96 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 5: and the security guards just being like now, maybe like 97 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 5: a staff member will show up today, maybe not, but 98 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 5: like we don't care how dangerous situation is or something. Yeah, 99 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 5: just the fact that there was like no proper place 100 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 5: to wash, there were no toilets. The food was like, yeah, 101 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 5: I worked in camps across the borders, across European borders, 102 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 5: and I've seen a lot of like horrible food. But 103 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 5: like in their Apple, they just decided to rent a Yeah, 104 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 5: like if you have like a party or something, you 105 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 5: would just rent this place that will just sell fries. 106 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 5: So they were just giving fries to people like every 107 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 5: single day. 108 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 3: Jesus. 109 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, just I mean just three packed food from the 110 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 5: supermarket would be more healthy then just fries every day 111 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 5: for a month, right, Yeah, So just a level of 112 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 5: like yeah, neglect, lack of care. It's just even even 113 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 5: more than what you can see on the pictures. 114 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like a complete like lack of like failure 115 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: of the government to address their basic rights and needs. 116 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 2: And how long can people expect to spend in that situation? Then, 117 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: like they have to they have to go there, right, 118 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 2: like if they want the asylum, they have to go there. 119 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, So, like the the irony was that the only 120 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 5: way to get shelter was to be there and then 121 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 5: be without shelter for you wouldn't know how long, like right, yeah, 122 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,559 Speaker 5: I mean sometimes it was hours, especially for their women 123 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 5: and children. It was usually they would usually be let 124 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 5: in in the evening, but yeah, men definitely days sometimes 125 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 5: if they were not lucky, weeks. And it was just 126 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 5: also so like unclear, so people would just not get 127 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 5: any information. They would be there and then all of 128 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 5: a sudden hear someone shout and all start running towards 129 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 5: where the shout came from because maybe they would be 130 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 5: let in or yeah, I don't know, like guards would 131 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 5: just shout at them in Dutch and then be like 132 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 5: why don't you understand me? Or like it was all 133 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 5: just like consciously like it's so unnecessarily chaotic and therefore 134 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 5: also like people pushing around police getting like intimidating and violent, 135 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 5: and yeah, just is very chaotic and disrespectful approach to people. 136 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's worryingly similar to what we see in open 137 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: air attention. So it's here like they'll do it. People 138 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 2: are outside there too, they have an excell no shelter 139 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: there too. We volunteers make the food, so it's better 140 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: than that. Yeah, they'll turn up in a bus, like 141 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: I've seen them turn up in a bus and just 142 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: shout run and like, if you understand English, you run. 143 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 2: If you don't stand English, you see everyone else running, 144 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: so you run. And then they can only take thirty people, 145 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: and now had more than one hundred people come stampeding 146 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: across like just they've got to grab their bags and everything, 147 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: and it's yeah, completely unnecessarily chaotic and cruel. And then 148 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: once it let in, what can they expect from that? 149 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: They're saying in like a barracks or something were they're processed. 150 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it was very very chaotic. I think it 151 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 5: took them like almost a year to actually process everyone, 152 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 5: because they would just if a municipality would say like, 153 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 5: oh I have space for one hundred people, they would 154 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 5: just randomly put one hundred people in the bus and 155 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 5: drup them there and then a year later it would 156 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 5: turn out that they were never properly registered or something. 157 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 5: So but yeah, I think like there was a night 158 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 5: shelter not so far away from their apple, so that 159 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 5: was always like late in the evening, there would still 160 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 5: be a few buses going to that night shelter. That 161 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 5: was just a big sports hall I think, full of beds, 162 00:08:55,559 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 5: bunk beds or yeah, like stretchers and yeah, no privacy, see, 163 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 5: just like hundreds of people in one room. The lights 164 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 5: would stay on all night for safety reasons. But of 165 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 5: course that's also very cruel too. 166 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 167 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then if people would get registered, they would 168 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 5: be usually sent to like a temporary or emergency shelter 169 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,599 Speaker 5: because there was such a huge shortage of regular shelters. 170 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 5: So some people were living in sports halls without much 171 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 5: privacy for like half year or year or some people 172 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 5: are still there to be honest. 173 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that's crazy. It's atrocious. Talking of atrocious. Unfortunately, 174 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: we have to break the ad. We'll do that, Okay, 175 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 2: we're back, help you do it as ad of it. 176 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: And we're talking about tear Apple this, I guess Migrant 177 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: Reception Registration Center in the events. One thing I saw 178 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: when I was sort of doing and reading about this 179 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: recently was babies born to keep mothers or people in 180 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 2: the Teapal asylum center a seven times more likely to 181 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: die in or around perfect That is shocking. Yeah, so 182 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: is there just no access to medical care of people 183 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 2: like delivering babies in this asylum center. 184 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 5: Well, I think the excuse of the government is that 185 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 5: they didn't have proper care during the pregnancy because they 186 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 5: were still traveling. Of course that is often the case, 187 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 5: Like yeah, yeah, but still it's insanely high. Seven times 188 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 5: more people dying, and especially when this super chaotic situation occurred, like, yeah, 189 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 5: we would have people in the field that we were 190 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 5: suspecting they were getting like hypothermia or you know, some 191 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 5: sort of yeah, strong physical reaction to the tough conditions 192 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 5: they were facing. But they could be dropped in the 193 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 5: night shelter, picked out again in the morning, being back 194 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 5: on the field, staying on the field for a few nights, 195 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 5: again going for one night to a night shelter, being 196 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 5: transferred to an emergency camp for two days, being transferred 197 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 5: to another emergency camp for three days. And during this 198 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 5: time there is no coherence medical care right, and of 199 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 5: course it would usually be a little bit better for 200 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 5: women and especially pregnant women, so they would try to 201 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 5: put them in a more stable place and like not 202 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 5: move them around that much, but trying is yeah, they 203 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 5: would not always actually manage to do that. So they've 204 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 5: definitely also been complaints, yeah, of people and especially like 205 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 5: pregnant pregnant women still being forced to move to a 206 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 5: different camp, like really close to the data the baby 207 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 5: was expected to come, and yeah, that definitely doesn't help. So, 208 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 5: I mean, the care on the field was absolutely horrendous. 209 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 5: I think women were usually not exposed to it that 210 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 5: much because we do. Yeah, there's also this weird sexism 211 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 5: in migration that men can always suffer more, which is 212 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 5: not always true, especially if you're not filtering out the 213 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 5: really thick men either, because I was definitely a lot 214 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 5: more healthy than a lot of the men walking around there. 215 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 5: But yeah, at least in the case of like pregnant women, 216 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 5: I think they would be moved out pretty quickly. But yeah, 217 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 5: it was chaotic. And then also you have like, of 218 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 5: course you have a lot of people who speak Arabic 219 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 5: or Farsi or dig Yeah, but you also have people 220 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 5: who speak on a link language that is only spoken 221 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 5: in a province of a country, you know, like it's 222 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 5: very hard to get proper translation for like all the 223 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 5: possible languages of people that apply for asylum. Yeah, but yeah, 224 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 5: I mean I definitely think the conditions, especially when there 225 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 5: were so many people living in really bad emergency shelters 226 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 5: or even on the streets, did not help babies at all. 227 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, anyone, I guess no. 228 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 2: Can you explain then, like this situation arose about about 229 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 2: a year ago, I think, right, so you were part 230 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 2: of a group of people that were able to respond 231 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: to help at least, I guess make it a little 232 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: bit less terrible. Can you explain a little bit about 233 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 2: about the group, about what you're able to do. 234 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, So, I mean we just so, I was already 235 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 5: a part of my grades, which is an organization that 236 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 5: like I personally worked on the borders, like providing food 237 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 5: and clothes and stuff like that to people on the move, 238 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 5: and migrades is more like also more an activist organizations 239 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 5: or organizing protests or campaigns and stuff like that. So 240 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 5: we just like went to see what was going on, 241 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 5: and then we very quickly realized that it was worse 242 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 5: than it looked, but also that there were so many 243 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 5: basic things that were not being done by the government 244 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 5: that we were actually able to do. So yeah, we 245 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 5: just asked around a lot for hours and hours, like 246 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 5: what do you need, what's going on? What is missing? 247 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 5: Like what is your imory issue at this moment, And 248 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 5: one of the main things people were saying was like 249 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 5: the food is fucking driving them and saying like yeah, yeah, 250 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 5: just the lack of flavor, but also just the lack 251 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 5: of health and yeah, people would just get like diarrhea 252 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 5: and stuff. And then it turned out, of course that 253 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 5: there were already some people around that wanted to do stuff, 254 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 5: so we just had a big call. And then it 255 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 5: turned out that there was like this squads where they 256 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 5: had a big kitchen and they were like, yeah, of 257 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 5: course you can cook here. And then there was another 258 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 5: like former squads where they also had a big soup kitchen, 259 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 5: and then I was like, okay, this is like it 260 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 5: was a big like media storm. It was a big 261 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 5: thing for the Netlands that this was happening because we 262 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 5: have this like, yeah, idea that we are perfectly organized 263 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 5: and blah blah blah, and that like all the bad 264 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 5: things happen on the border is still like at the 265 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 5: like with a very clear role of our politicians, but 266 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 5: like somehow, yeah, there's not much talk about that. So 267 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 5: it was like on the front page every single day 268 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 5: for weeks. So I thought, yeah, like because the people 269 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 5: that were already trying to do something, they were like, 270 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 5: how can we get enough money for the groceries and 271 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 5: how can we get volunteers? And then yeah, I was like, 272 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 5: we'll manage. If there's one thing I learned from the border, 273 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 5: it's like, if you start doing something, people will will 274 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 5: come and join. Yeah, and we first said like, okay, 275 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 5: let's just cook two times a week, you know, one 276 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 5: time in the squad and another time in the other squad, 277 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 5: and then it's like super doable, blah blah blah. And 278 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 5: then basically we started and it's yeah, there was just 279 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 5: no way back. So yeah, we said like okay, let's 280 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 5: send out food twice and then yeah, I just went 281 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 5: like day and nights being on the field, and quite 282 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 5: quickly we moved to food distribution every day because there 283 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 5: were so many people in the area that wanted to cook. 284 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 5: There was like an Islamic group that were churches. They 285 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 5: were like, yeah, from all over the country. People were 286 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 5: coming in action. And yeah, so first we did food 287 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 5: kind of because people really wanted it, but also kind 288 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 5: of because we just knew how to do it because 289 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 5: we had some people who had a big kitchen and 290 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 5: some experience cooking and in large quantities. And then quickly 291 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 5: it became like colder and rainy as well, so we 292 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 5: started to move towards leaving bags and ponchos and yet 293 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 5: just yeah, big distributions, and then we also started to 294 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 5: hand out tents, and then we got into a whole 295 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 5: fight with the municipality and the police because they were 296 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 5: constantly like confiscating the tents. Yeah, but yeah, we just 297 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 5: started with what we thought would be feasible to do, 298 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 5: I guess, and then it kind of escalated really quickly 299 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 5: to yeah, us being kind of responsible for a lot 300 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 5: of basic needs of everyone on the field, and also 301 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 5: us monitoring, like informing journalists because like the government would 302 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 5: be like, oh, no, there's nobody there on the field 303 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 5: right now, and then we would just like five minutes, 304 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 5: I'd be like no one. 305 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. 306 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 5: So we also quite quickly like became a big part 307 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 5: of the whole political debate where like the government was 308 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 5: saying one thing and we were saying another, and like 309 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 5: they were all all the time trying to pretend that 310 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 5: nothing was wrong and everything was fine. 311 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, I think it's it's such a common 312 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: it's sadly a common experience, right. It's being like a 313 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 2: the government is lying to you, Like you can see 314 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 2: this with your eyes, so that you're being lied to, 315 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: and be like they're just going to leave these people 316 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: if we don't do something, no one will. Something that 317 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 2: we've had here. We see it, as you say, every 318 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: border in Europe more or less, right, Like it's just 319 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,239 Speaker 2: a consequence of the way that like neoliberal capitalism has 320 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 2: decided to deal with migration, which is to make to 321 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: be as cruel as possible and to make it as 322 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: hard as possible for people. I wonder, like you've been 323 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 2: organizing there, at at least in this place for like 324 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: a year. I think I I want this to be 325 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 2: instructive for people, because like we've been organizing here too, 326 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 2: and we've learned a lot. Are there things that you've 327 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 2: learned that you think other people could take from the 328 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 2: organizing or or like and make you you also are 329 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 2: part of organizing in your area. If either of you 330 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: have things that you've learned about, specifically organizing to help migrants, 331 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: I'd love to hear them. 332 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 5: Oh so many things. I'm probably gonna forget some of 333 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 5: the things I've learned. Well. I think one thing that 334 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 5: I've learned, and that I've learned over and over and 335 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 5: over again, is that if you start doing something, you 336 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 5: will find people who will join. And I think that's 337 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 5: one of the scary things when you see a gigantic problem, 338 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 5: and even if you know a concrete thing that you 339 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 5: can do about it, it's still, Yeah, there is a 340 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 5: lot of things that you cannot do as a single 341 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 5: human being. But I found this true in many countries 342 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 5: across the world, that if you just start and you 343 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 5: say that you're doing it, people will actually join. And 344 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 5: I found that as specially like painful in their apple 345 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 5: that we were on this field and there had been 346 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 5: so much media attention and there was nobody there, like 347 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 5: everyone was speaking about it and no one was doing anything, 348 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 5: and it was kind of depressing to witness that and 349 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 5: to feel that nobody It felt like nobody cared, right, 350 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 5: But as soon as we just started with this small thing, 351 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 5: like okay, you can donate to groceries, you can come 352 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 5: help cook, you can come help do the dishes, like 353 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 5: concrete things that you can do. Yeah, we were like 354 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 5: I think we got like a thousand people who wanted 355 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 5: to volunteer with us, which was like way too much. 356 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 5: We never got back to all of them because it 357 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,199 Speaker 5: was just insane. We did not need thousand people to 358 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 5: cook food for two hundred people, so like, yeah, but 359 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 5: we just started, and I think, yeah, I think that 360 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 5: was really helpful, or I think that can be very 361 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 5: helpful if you're thinking about doing something like start small, 362 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 5: but don't be afraid that it will not kind of 363 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 5: grow because people will join and people will make it 364 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 5: into something bigger. Also a great lesson that I learned, Well, 365 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 5: it's very basic and understandable actually, but like try to 366 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 5: make Yeah, my experience is usually with like a mass distributions, 367 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 5: so you have hundreds of people, you have food or 368 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 5: blankets or whatever something that people really need, and it's 369 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 5: like so important to really plan the distribution well and 370 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 5: to really inform and discuss with people because that's one 371 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 5: thing that also happened in their Apple that at some 372 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 5: point people were just dumping shit on the field and 373 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 5: they were actually causing fights and causing tensions between people 374 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 5: because you cannot you can't show with five sleeping bags 375 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 5: when hundreds of people are in desperate need of a 376 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 5: sleeping back. You know, like that's kind of inhumane. And 377 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 5: I get that people have good intentions, and I get 378 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 5: that it could potentially mean that five people are less cold, 379 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 5: but like, yeah, some sort of shelter is a basic necessity, 380 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 5: so you cannot give that to a few and not 381 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 5: to others. So yeah, I think like, like the first 382 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 5: time we did the distribution into Apple, I was kind 383 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 5: of scared because people were spreading like there was a 384 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 5: lot of rumor about like, oh, it's so violent and 385 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 5: these people are like blah blah blah, and and of 386 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 5: course I kind of didn't believe it because I worked 387 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 5: with migrants for a long time and I know that 388 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 5: they're human being. You know, they're not so like shockingly 389 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 5: different than but I've also learned that you need to be. 390 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 5: They did not learn at all to trust anyone there, 391 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 5: because like people were lying to them. People were telling 392 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 5: them they would get shelter in the night, but they 393 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 5: would not. People would say that they would see a 394 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 5: doctor and they would not get to see a doctor. 395 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 5: So like the I think it's really important if you 396 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 5: want to help people that you take them seriously and 397 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 5: that you build up some trust. So for example, we 398 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 5: went the first time, we cooked so much food. We 399 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 5: were like, it's we cannot make it run out, you know, 400 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 5: like we want everyone to get as much as say 401 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 5: once and more. Yeah, even if we have to trash, 402 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 5: because like these people for once have to get the 403 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 5: feeling that it's like that we're there for everyone. So 404 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 5: like if you make if you do a mass distribution, 405 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 5: you usually make light lines and people have to like 406 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 5: wait for their turn. But we spend hours just telling 407 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 5: people like, hey, we're going to give out food. There's 408 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 5: so much food, you know, don't worry like it's toll 409 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 5: and then also actually live up to that of course, 410 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 5: make sure that there is enough food. Yeah, and like 411 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 5: try to make it like fun. And this is like 412 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 5: it's kind of awkward because you like I kind of 413 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 5: feel awkward about putting people in a line and telling 414 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,479 Speaker 5: them to wait and you know like that because you're 415 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 5: kind of being bossing them around. But yeah, if it 416 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 5: goes well, once and everyone just feels like hey, here, 417 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 5: I don't have to fight to get to the front, 418 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 5: and here I can just chill out and we can 419 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 5: make a chat with each other and we can just 420 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 5: you know, smile and like wish each other a good day. Then, Yeah, 421 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 5: I think it's also really important to try to make 422 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 5: distributions kind of fun or at least as chill as possible, 423 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 5: and to like try to not make it another survival 424 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 5: of the fittest moment, because that is exactly what the 425 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 5: state is pushing people into, and that is what I 426 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 5: don't want people to get into. 427 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's very true. Like we've definitely learned 428 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 2: a lot of those similar things. I can't like put 429 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: enough emphasis on planning before you just show up and 430 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 2: do a distribution, Like we had so many fucking chaotic 431 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 2: it's not on. Yeah, people are fighting hungry and they've 432 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 2: had to fight to get fed for the duration of 433 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 2: the journey, be that days, weeks, months, or years, and 434 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: like there's no they're doing what like they understand to 435 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: be the necessary thing. 436 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, and there's it's absolutely not like humane to just 437 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 5: recreate that mode, you know, Like it's amazing to be 438 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 5: able to create a nice atmosphere where people can relax 439 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 5: and feel safe and feel finally treated like equally and 440 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 5: somehow like fairly again, even if it's just for a 441 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 5: very simple meal. But it's yeah, I mean you can 442 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 5: already get moody if someone jumps in front of you 443 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 5: at the supermarket. You know, I can get moody with that. 444 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 5: But it's like that, but then like way more extream 445 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 5: and for actual, yeah, things that you need to survive 446 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 5: all the time, Like it's yeah, it's hard to imagine, 447 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 5: I guess if you've never really been in a survival situation. 448 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 5: But yeah, it can be so much fun. Also, maybe 449 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 5: that's another good one because I remember people were feeling 450 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 5: sorry for me a lot when I was working there, 451 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 5: like oh my god, this must be so hard, And 452 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 5: I mean it was fucking hard sometimes, like I have 453 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 5: literally been standing there like pushing away tears and being like, no, 454 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 5: I'm fine, but I'm not fine at all. But also 455 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 5: it's fun, like you're just joking around and you're making 456 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,239 Speaker 5: each other happy and you feel like you're part of 457 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 5: something bigger and you feel I think it's very empowering 458 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 5: to be like the state is fucking it up and 459 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 5: we can actually do it better. 460 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, very much. 461 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: So like I think it's very like affirming, right, like 462 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 2: to be like we don't need like anyone telling us 463 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 2: what to do, We don't need anyone trying to control us, 464 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 2: like we can we can take care of these people 465 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 2: ourselves without creating mechanisms of control. And like I think 466 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 2: for me that was I like one of the reasons 467 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 2: I really enjoy doing it is that that like me 468 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: and my friends can care for these people. And it's like, 469 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: I don't know from my perspective, like I've had conversations 470 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: with hundreds of people from all around the world, Like 471 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 2: we would do things like play music while people waited 472 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 2: for food. If we had a friend who was able 473 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 2: to play music, you know, we had enough enough people. 474 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: We'd always recruit people from among the migrants to help 475 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 2: us with food distribution, which turned out to be great 476 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 2: because like they taught us different words in different languages 477 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 2: and like you know, I can say hot source and 478 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: like twenty five languages now, like. 479 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 4: It was important parts yeah. 480 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, the real to death. 481 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 2: But yeah, it was very and then like I remember 482 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 2: one night it was like in Septemy, it was so cold, 483 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 2: one of the cold nights it was in September, and 484 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 2: it was just about freezing, and like there were very 485 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 2: few of us back then, and we my friend had 486 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: some guitars and like drums, and we like parked the 487 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: band to block the wind and everyone sat around and 488 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: played the guitar and they played their different songs and 489 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 2: like we had all these really happy moments. Yeah it's 490 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 2: not like we said around. 491 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 3: Crying all the time. Like it's no, not at all 492 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 3: very empowering, I. 493 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 5: Think no, I think it's it's important what you just 494 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 5: said that. Also a lot of work can be done 495 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 5: by people themselves. So I remember a volunteer being like 496 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 5: I want to give out the food, whereas these guys 497 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 5: were giving out the food every day and they had 498 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 5: this tour routine and they were much faster, and you know, 499 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 5: like and also it's not about you feeling good about you. 500 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 3: Know, like yeah, yeah, not that to help you. 501 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, like listen to people, like really spend 502 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 5: a lot of time understanding what people need and what 503 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 5: they want and because it's really often not what you expect. 504 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 5: And yeah, make sure that people can also do stuff themselves. 505 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 5: And also like for example, if we would have tents 506 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 5: but not for everyone, or blankets but not for everyone, 507 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,239 Speaker 5: instead of making like a very rigid decision of like 508 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 5: you get it and you don't. It's so useful to 509 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 5: just talk to people and to just be like, hey, sorry, 510 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 5: this is a situation or yeah. Like there were a 511 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 5: lot of fights because families were always allowed to go first, 512 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 5: but it was not really clearly communicated by the government's 513 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 5: like can facility and stuff. But when we were just 514 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 5: discussing with them, like, hey, how can we make the 515 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 5: distribution more chill, they were like, well, can women and 516 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 5: children and elderly people just go first? And I was 517 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 5: like yeah, or you know, I mean, it's not really 518 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 5: any of my business, like yeah, and then if everyone 519 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 5: just understands it and it's kind of clear and understandable 520 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 5: and explained, it's like so much more chill. Whereas if 521 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 5: you're just shouting at people and assuming that they will 522 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 5: not understand or assume that they will be selfish, you 523 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 5: are also forcing people into that role. Yes, and I 524 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 5: think it's really beautiful if you can snap out of that, 525 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 5: and you can, yeah, you can just be somewhat equal, 526 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 5: even though like legally or in a completely different situation. 527 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. 528 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 6: So what you're telling me is that if you talk 529 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 6: to people and treat them as human beings. That has 530 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 6: positive results for bad situations. 531 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 5: Yeah. 532 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, this is a hot take, a very hot take. 533 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, breaking news. 534 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 535 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 6: I don't have nearly the amount of like field experience 536 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 6: that Rose has has. So but another thing that I 537 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 6: think is really important to highlight is that it's not 538 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 6: just It's not just the necessities I was part of. 539 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 6: I did first date at the No Border camp near 540 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 6: to Apple last summer, and some of the activists there 541 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 6: that a really admirable job day. I think they did 542 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 6: not go to their Apple because it was too politically 543 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 6: hot at the time, so they went to different centers 544 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 6: where migrants were living, and they handed out toys and 545 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 6: they hired a bouncy castle for the kids to play off. 546 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 4: It was really. 547 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 6: It was really basic in the sense that it didn't 548 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 6: need like massive fund massive funds or incredible avance of 549 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 6: organization that you need bureaucracies to handle. It was just 550 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 6: people thinking of ways like, hey, how can we make 551 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 6: these people happier or more comfortable or at least forget 552 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 6: for like a few hours about like the situation therein 553 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 6: because our media likes to, you know, dive onto every 554 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 6: time there's a fight in a migrant center, right, But 555 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 6: it's rarely discussed that if you put a lot of 556 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 6: people in a stressful situation on top of each other, 557 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 6: people will there will be tensions and there will be fights, 558 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 6: which is I think we don't cover that enough, right. 559 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 5: No, And also nobody really cares because I think it's 560 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 5: It's one of the most beautiful things for me as well, 561 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 5: is that the solidarity that people show each other. And like, yeah, 562 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 5: you don't even see it half the time, but people 563 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 5: give each other like their waterproof jackets or I remember 564 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 5: one night it was a horrible night in their apple 565 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 5: and we didn't expect people to be there, and all 566 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 5: of a sudden there were hundreds of people and they 567 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 5: hadn't had food since the morning. And then people in 568 00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 5: the camp they all get microwave meals and they kind 569 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 5: of hate them, but like they all have kind of 570 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 5: a stash, so they all like started to eat up 571 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 5: microwave meals and bring them outside. And they were actually 572 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 5: way more able to provide food on such a short 573 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 5: notice than we were. And it was not the best food, 574 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 5: but like everyone had food and they were even sharing 575 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 5: it with us, and we were all just like so 576 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 5: glad to be eating after ten hours in the rain 577 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 5: and in the cold. And yeah people, Yeah, I don't know, 578 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 5: carrying luggage for someone who has Like it's all the 579 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 5: time you see people standing up for each other, and 580 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 5: I think that is honestly an amazing thing. And maybe 581 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 5: more tough situations bring that out somehow more as well, 582 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 5: Like it's easy for most people in Western societies to 583 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 5: be very individualists and live very isolated and yeah, non 584 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 5: fulfilling lives, but then if you are in this kind 585 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 5: of situation in some ways, it can also bring out. 586 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 3: The best in people. 587 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, Like we were just talking about 588 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: before we start, I did how like yesterday I was 589 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 2: out helping down by the border and around the two 590 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: Mauritanian guys who had carried a Chinese man with a 591 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 2: leg injury for two days and they couldn't even share 592 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 2: the same language. And like that walk is no that 593 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 2: hike is no joke. Like I do that with a 594 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 2: big backpack full of water. That's hard, and I do 595 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: a lot of hiking, but I wasn't carrying another human, 596 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 2: you know, But it can actually really bring out some 597 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 2: incredible acts of kindness. And I wonder, guys, we're running 598 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 2: close at the end of our signed time. If people 599 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: want to help, either they say they're in the Netherlands 600 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 2: and they want to come and help, or if they 601 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 2: want to help in a financial way, or maybe they 602 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 2: can do some remote so to help, maybe they can 603 00:32:54,560 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 2: respond to the thousand volunteers by email for you, how 604 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 2: can they do that? 605 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, donations are always welcome. We're currently not working in 606 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 5: their apple, but it doesn't look good. So usually the 607 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:15,239 Speaker 5: influx is highest in summer and early autumn. And we 608 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 5: have like a far right majority in parliament since a 609 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 5: few months, so we're wouldn't be surprised if we have 610 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 5: people out on the streets again. Also, I think there's 611 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 5: a very big chance that the shelters for undocumented people 612 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 5: might close, so we would have a lot of people 613 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 5: on the streets then. So we need a lot of 614 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 5: solidarity networks and a lot of things, like a lot yeah, 615 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 5: so like, yeah, financial support is always welcome, but I 616 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 5: think it's also really important that people think about what 617 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 5: they can do in their lives and that it is 618 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 5: also something that they can manage inside of their lives. 619 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 5: So like not everyone can drop everything and yeah, move 620 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 5: to the other side of the country or whatever. But 621 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 5: if you can host one person, or if you can 622 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 5: support someone else who's hosting, like, there are ways, I think. 623 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 5: I think migrated does not have like all the options 624 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 5: to volunteer, but like we really hope that there will 625 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 5: be a lot of networks of solidarity that yeah, we 626 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 5: just need them across the country, I think, and I 627 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 5: do think there's like a serious risk of like more 628 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 5: criminalization of aid workers. We were also criminalized for handing 629 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 5: out tents. I got a letter that said that I 630 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 5: risk like three months of imprisonment for handing out tents. 631 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 3: Oh wow, yeah Jesus. 632 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 4: But there's democracy moments. 633 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, we need that European social democracy model everyone's talking about. 634 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, we are just doing great. 635 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. 636 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 5: And so, like tents were constantly confiscated and stuff, and 637 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 5: it was intense there because people had to be there 638 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 5: to get sheltered, which they legally were entitled to. But 639 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 5: it is a bigger trend, so regular homeless people will 640 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 5: also see their tents confiscated or smashed without them getting 641 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 5: an offer to get into a shelter. Right, So I 642 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 5: think the criminalization in our case was a bit extreme 643 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 5: because most of the criminalization had to do with at 644 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 5: least a very vague relationship with like smuggling or people 645 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 5: crossing borders, whereas like handing out senses like the most humanitarian, 646 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 5: basic thing that you can possibly do, and somehow they 647 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 5: still thought it was a good idea to criminalize that. Yeah, 648 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 5: I think we need to prepare for the fact that 649 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 5: our borders and our migration policies are going to get 650 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 5: more cruel and that the only thing that we can 651 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 5: do to help is like really strong networks of solidarity 652 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,479 Speaker 5: and resistance, and that we might sometimes risk prison time, 653 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 5: but that we still probably need to do it because 654 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 5: the alternative is that we're just letting people be destroyed 655 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 5: in this system. 656 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 2: I think that's very very good. Make do you have 657 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 2: anything bad work and people follow you, find more ways 658 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 2: to support, ways to show solidary t I think. 659 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 6: What I plugged last time, like that polish from text campaign. 660 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 6: Find your local activist group. 661 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 5: Or started, because we exactly exactly even if you're just 662 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 5: one person, it's. 663 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 6: Like, yeah, like through social media you can find a 664 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 6: lot of people. Find your local squad. They will be 665 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 6: they will will want to help. 666 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 5: Yeah, and maybe what you just said, like there's every 667 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 5: year no border camp somewhere in another Lars, so that's 668 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 5: a good place to start. 669 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yes, you can find them on Instagram. 670 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 4: I think I'm not on Instagram. I don't know. 671 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's there. 672 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 4: That that's that. That's definitely an option. Atmosphere is great there. 673 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,720 Speaker 6: I don't I'm not on the socials, so you can't 674 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 6: find me if you want to. 675 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 4: I'm sorry. 676 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 6: And well I'm also like Rose you said, I do 677 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 6: some stuff with like a first aid collective. So if 678 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 6: you guys are if you are doing something and you're like, hey, 679 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 6: we could use some people with. 680 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 4: Some degree of medical training, reach out to me. 681 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 6: You have my contacts, because that is the kind of 682 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 6: thing I will most definitely get. 683 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 4: Well excited is the wrong word. 684 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 5: If sh hits the vanitser apple, we could really use 685 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 5: some first aid as well, then yeah. 686 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, reach out. I will. 687 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 6: I will gladly come over there with all the medical 688 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 6: supplies that are scattered around my room. 689 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 5: Yeah. 690 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 2: I think that's a good illustration there, right to finish up, like, 691 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 2: everybody has a skill that we can use, Like you 692 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 2: might not think you do, but you probably do. Like 693 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 2: someone knitted hats for us you know, if you're a 694 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 2: person who likes to knit, And we had people who 695 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 2: didn't think they had much to offer and then came 696 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 2: and just made sandwiches. And they created a method for 697 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 2: making sandwiches in bulk that like allowed us to make 698 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 2: more sandwiches more quickly. Everybody has even if you want 699 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 2: to be the person who washes the blankets and that's 700 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 2: a massive task that means somebody's warm at night. 701 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's an insane test. And also like maybe the 702 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 5: more intimidating tasks, Like I think it could be intimidating 703 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 5: to be like, oh, we're going to I don't know, 704 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 5: hundreds of men and everyone says they're scary, but indeed 705 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 5: there's also so much things happening in the background, like 706 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 5: collecting blankets, getting clothes, getting groceries. Like there's so so 707 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 5: many layers to it. And it can also be that 708 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 5: you collect tend blankets, but like hundreds of people collect 709 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 5: tend blankets, right, So it's also you're always part of 710 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 5: something bigger and there's always a there's always I think 711 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 5: that it's always very good to think that, Like, if 712 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 5: you're faced with a big problem, it's very hard to 713 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 5: get to the solution of it. But at the same time, 714 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 5: it's very easy to do a tiny thing about it. 715 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,719 Speaker 5: And I think it's much more useful to do that 716 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 5: tiny thing than to be like, oh, I can never 717 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 5: get to the real solution of this problem, And in 718 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 5: the end you will kind of get to it by 719 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 5: doing that with more and more people and actually building 720 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 5: up collective power and resistance. 721 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, about the collecting thing, like, yeah, for example, I 722 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 6: know my parents still have like old toys from when 723 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 6: we my brother were younger. If you're in an area 724 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,359 Speaker 6: with a refugee center, you could always just give those 725 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 6: toys to the people there. If you have old, old 726 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 6: children's books or something, people can use that to get 727 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 6: a grasp on the Gibberish that is the Dutch language. 728 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 6: These little things also matter a lot, and it's something 729 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 6: very impactful that you can do that doesn't take much 730 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 6: of your own effort. 731 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very low threshold, right. 732 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 2: And it makes a huge difference to make someone feel 733 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 2: cared for and welcome. That can make all the difference 734 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,759 Speaker 2: in the world. What is Can you just spell out 735 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 2: the migreat website for us. 736 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 5: Uh huh m I g R E A T dot org. 737 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 3: Dot org. Perfect. 738 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 5: It's like migration is great, migreat mi great. 739 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I see what you're there. All right, Thank you 740 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 3: so much, both of you. 741 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 4: Thanks, thank you for having us. 742 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,360 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 743 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 744 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 745 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 746 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 747 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.