WEBVTT - Episode 5: Santos Released From Prison 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:23.756 Pushkin. Hey, it's Jake. Welcome back to deep Cover. I'm 0:00:23.796 --> 0:00:26.356 in your feed today with an update about a story 0:00:26.356 --> 0:00:29.836 that we covered last summer. You might remember it. My 0:00:29.956 --> 0:00:33.796 producer Amy Gains McQuaid and I did a deep dive 0:00:33.876 --> 0:00:37.716 into the world of George Santos, a former Republican congressman 0:00:37.756 --> 0:00:41.636 from New York who pled guilty to wire fraud and 0:00:41.756 --> 0:00:46.876 identity theft. I called up Amy because well, there's been 0:00:46.916 --> 0:01:01.516 quite a development in the last week. Hey, Amy, Hey Jake. 0:01:02.276 --> 0:01:04.436 So I'll just cut you it the news we're here 0:01:04.476 --> 0:01:09.996 to talk about. On Friday, President Trump commuted Georgeantos's sentence, 0:01:10.396 --> 0:01:12.876 sending shockwaves through the political world. 0:01:13.676 --> 0:01:16.196 George Santos is the gift that keeps on giving. 0:01:17.196 --> 0:01:20.356 I did not think we'd be here so many months 0:01:20.396 --> 0:01:23.436 after releasing this series talking about this, but here we are. 0:01:23.996 --> 0:01:26.556 Yeah, So just talk us through this. How did we 0:01:26.596 --> 0:01:27.476 get to this point? 0:01:28.756 --> 0:01:33.036 So, if you remember, Santos pled guilty to two charges, 0:01:33.436 --> 0:01:37.636 wire fraud and aggravated identity theft. That was last summer, 0:01:37.756 --> 0:01:41.036 August twenty twenty four. I was actually in the courtroom 0:01:41.076 --> 0:01:44.396 for that plea hearing, and at the time Santos told 0:01:44.396 --> 0:01:48.196 the judge you know, I accept full responsibility for my actions. 0:01:48.636 --> 0:01:50.116 They set his sentencing. 0:01:49.836 --> 0:01:52.796 For April, and at that time he was actually sentenced 0:01:52.836 --> 0:01:57.316 to eighty seven months, a little over seven years. He 0:01:57.436 --> 0:02:00.276 was always going to face at least two years because 0:02:00.636 --> 0:02:02.876 of the identity theft charge that he pled to that 0:02:02.916 --> 0:02:05.956 carries a two year minimum. His lawyers had asked the 0:02:06.036 --> 0:02:08.636 judge if he could be sentenced to the minimum that 0:02:08.676 --> 0:02:12.076 two years, but the judge at sentencing didn't agree with 0:02:12.116 --> 0:02:14.916 that and felt that Santos deserved a sentence on the 0:02:14.996 --> 0:02:18.836 higher end of the guideline. So actually the guideline said 0:02:19.036 --> 0:02:22.556 seventy five to eighty seven, and the judge ultimately. 0:02:22.116 --> 0:02:23.396 Handed down the maximum. 0:02:23.796 --> 0:02:27.476 He reported to prison in July, and then three months 0:02:27.556 --> 0:02:29.276 later he's released. 0:02:29.716 --> 0:02:32.196 Okay, So I know, like I heard this on Sunday 0:02:32.596 --> 0:02:35.116 for Saul, I immediately thought of you. I was like, 0:02:35.236 --> 0:02:38.556 what is Amy thinking. I mean, to me, it felt 0:02:38.636 --> 0:02:40.916 like a bombshell. They came out of nowhere. But I'm 0:02:40.956 --> 0:02:45.436 wondering the people that you spoke with who are close 0:02:45.476 --> 0:02:49.036 to the story, were they surprised by this. 0:02:49.996 --> 0:02:52.196 Yeah, I've heard from a lot of folks that we 0:02:52.236 --> 0:02:55.596 talked to for the original series, and I think across 0:02:55.636 --> 0:02:58.276 the board, there was a lot of shock and surprise. 0:02:58.916 --> 0:03:02.236 I called up Kathy Soref, who, if you remember, was 0:03:02.276 --> 0:03:04.116 one of George Santos's donors. 0:03:04.556 --> 0:03:08.916 The only thing I can say is he was so 0:03:09.356 --> 0:03:14.676 is far too long for what he did. In my opinion, 0:03:14.996 --> 0:03:19.156 Were you expecting this to happen? No, it was a 0:03:19.196 --> 0:03:22.796 complete shock. You know, I cried. I haven't been thinking 0:03:22.836 --> 0:03:26.476 about it, but it was like, what, you know, I 0:03:26.516 --> 0:03:30.316 guess people think that Trump is vengeful. I don't think 0:03:30.316 --> 0:03:33.876 he is vengeful. I think he wants to hold people accountable, 0:03:34.436 --> 0:03:38.036 and I think he is actually you know, has a 0:03:38.196 --> 0:03:41.476 very soft and compassionate side to him. And I think 0:03:41.516 --> 0:03:44.596 he thought that George. I don't. I could be completely 0:03:44.636 --> 0:03:49.876 wrong about this. I'm trying interprojecting what President Trump was thinking. 0:03:50.396 --> 0:03:52.756 But why are we going to finance? I mean, how 0:03:52.796 --> 0:03:54.836 much does it cost to keep a prisoner in prison 0:03:55.036 --> 0:03:57.316 for a year? And do we want to spend that 0:03:57.436 --> 0:03:58.156 on George. 0:03:58.916 --> 0:04:01.796 It's interesting to hear like Kathy's basically like a prison 0:04:01.876 --> 0:04:04.276 reform advocate. Did you have any sense that that was 0:04:04.316 --> 0:04:05.596 like part of her deal? 0:04:07.716 --> 0:04:12.036 Kathy sa I wouldn't characterized as a prison reform advocate. 0:04:12.396 --> 0:04:15.556 In particular, Kathy was very careful with me to draw 0:04:15.556 --> 0:04:20.276 a distinction between violent and nonviolent offenders. I think that 0:04:20.356 --> 0:04:23.076 she has a much harder line stance when it comes 0:04:23.076 --> 0:04:25.916 to violent offenders, and in this case, she doesn't think 0:04:25.916 --> 0:04:28.276 that George Santos is a real risk to the community 0:04:28.996 --> 0:04:31.436 non violent criminals. 0:04:31.836 --> 0:04:35.196 You know, humiliation is a pretty potent punishment. 0:04:36.756 --> 0:04:38.836 So do you think that three months was an adequate 0:04:39.076 --> 0:04:40.556 sentence for what he pled to? 0:04:43.116 --> 0:04:46.356 I think that the time of it is not as 0:04:46.396 --> 0:04:50.916 significant as the experience that he probably had. I mean, 0:04:51.196 --> 0:04:53.596 you know, that's one reason why people don't want to 0:04:53.596 --> 0:04:57.076 be in jail. They get there and it's harsh. 0:04:57.356 --> 0:04:59.636 I have a lot of questions about Kathy, but I 0:04:59.676 --> 0:05:02.156 wonder if it's actually helpful to just take a step 0:05:02.196 --> 0:05:05.876 back here. President Trump, what is he said about why 0:05:05.916 --> 0:05:07.716 he commuted Santos's sentence. 0:05:08.756 --> 0:05:12.236 So when the news broke it was onwhere Else Truth 0:05:12.316 --> 0:05:17.476 Social Friday night, President Trump had posted quote, George Santos 0:05:17.756 --> 0:05:20.956 was somewhat of a rogue. That's in quotes, But there 0:05:20.956 --> 0:05:23.916 are many rogues throughout our country that aren't forced to 0:05:23.956 --> 0:05:26.356 serve seven years in prison. So you can see they're 0:05:26.356 --> 0:05:30.116 the president kind of indicating he didn't necessarily agree with 0:05:30.156 --> 0:05:33.436 the sentence that had been handed down. He had also 0:05:33.476 --> 0:05:38.116 said at least Santos had the courage, conviction and intelligence 0:05:38.476 --> 0:05:40.876 to always vote Republican. 0:05:41.196 --> 0:05:43.876 What does that mean? Like, why is he calling out 0:05:43.876 --> 0:05:47.396 that Santos always voted Republican. I feel like with President Trump, 0:05:47.396 --> 0:05:49.356 there's often like a subtext. Do you have a sense 0:05:49.356 --> 0:05:50.636 of what the subtext is there? 0:05:51.276 --> 0:05:51.436 Yeah? 0:05:51.476 --> 0:05:53.836 I think the subtext in this case is pretty It's 0:05:53.836 --> 0:05:57.716 a neon sign, It's George Santos has been a vocal, 0:05:57.916 --> 0:06:00.476 consistent supporter of President Trump. 0:06:00.916 --> 0:06:03.796 Early on, I had been waiting for this to happen. 0:06:03.876 --> 0:06:06.716 I think a lot of people had been. Santos himself 0:06:06.796 --> 0:06:10.156 had been kind of begging Trump for connotation apart in 0:06:10.676 --> 0:06:13.036 just kind of any relief at all, and he'd been 0:06:13.036 --> 0:06:14.876 a big support of Trump for a long time. So 0:06:15.036 --> 0:06:15.916 this wasn't surprising. 0:06:16.476 --> 0:06:18.276 When I heard the news, I gave a call to 0:06:18.476 --> 0:06:21.716 Mark Gasanov. He's the author of The Fabulous, who we 0:06:21.756 --> 0:06:24.836 spoke to for the original series. His book is a 0:06:24.876 --> 0:06:27.236 deeply reported biography of Santos. 0:06:27.516 --> 0:06:30.716 Trump had been pardoning or commuting a lot of people's sentences, 0:06:30.796 --> 0:06:34.276 so this wouldn't have been the craziest thing in the world. 0:06:34.316 --> 0:06:36.956 So I and a lot of people had been waiting 0:06:36.996 --> 0:06:39.796 for it to happen. But the months dragged on and 0:06:39.876 --> 0:06:43.636 nothing did. So kind of assumes that maybe Santos was 0:06:43.676 --> 0:06:46.196 going to stay in prison for at least a long time, 0:06:46.756 --> 0:06:49.356 a longer time than he spent. But you know, as 0:06:49.396 --> 0:06:52.436 with everything with Santos, it's your surprise, but nothing, nothing 0:06:52.436 --> 0:06:53.036 can shock you. 0:06:53.116 --> 0:06:55.396 I want to impact that a bit. You had almost 0:06:55.436 --> 0:06:56.356 been expecting this. 0:06:56.556 --> 0:07:00.956 It sounds like, why is that. Well, Santos had been 0:07:01.236 --> 0:07:04.956 a big Trump supporter and booster for years, I mean 0:07:05.476 --> 0:07:08.676 at least since twenty fifteen, and it was one of 0:07:08.716 --> 0:07:12.956 the fews things that he was totally just kind of 0:07:13.156 --> 0:07:17.356 unchangeable about. Right. He would go to rallies, he would 0:07:17.396 --> 0:07:22.076 boost him on social media. He actually spoke on January fifth, 0:07:22.116 --> 0:07:25.596 twenty twenty one, right before the January sixth Capitol riot. 0:07:26.916 --> 0:07:31.396 He continued sort of boosting Trump even after, you know, 0:07:31.436 --> 0:07:35.116 his fall from grace. He showed up at Trump's New 0:07:35.116 --> 0:07:38.636 Hampshire victory party, and then once he actually went to prison, 0:07:39.156 --> 0:07:44.236 he kept writing basically kind of op eds for a 0:07:44.276 --> 0:07:47.876 small newspaper on long Island, and in those op eds 0:07:48.236 --> 0:07:51.676 he was sort of bagging Trump for something, to let 0:07:51.756 --> 0:07:53.716 him out, help him out in some ways. So he 0:07:53.796 --> 0:07:55.716 kind of kept it up, and he'd been a sort 0:07:55.716 --> 0:07:58.636 of loyal Trump soldier in a way that you know, 0:07:58.756 --> 0:08:02.556 others haven't been, So you know, it was not so surprising, 0:08:02.716 --> 0:08:05.276 I guess to see Trump react to that, to that 0:08:05.356 --> 0:08:07.596 sort of constant flattery and approval. 0:08:09.316 --> 0:08:12.796 That Mark is like, I'm only surprised it didn't happen sooner, 0:08:12.836 --> 0:08:15.196 and Kathy's like, I'm surprised it happened at all. 0:08:15.636 --> 0:08:17.916 Yeah, well, I think that Marx beide is politics. And 0:08:18.116 --> 0:08:21.556 if you're paying attention, you've noticed that this is not 0:08:21.636 --> 0:08:24.476 the first act of clemency that has happened under the 0:08:24.516 --> 0:08:25.596 new Trump administration. 0:08:25.996 --> 0:08:27.996 I'm saying new, but it's been less than a year. 0:08:28.876 --> 0:08:29.036 You know. 0:08:29.116 --> 0:08:33.036 In that time, President Trump has pardoned more than sixteen 0:08:33.196 --> 0:08:38.036 hundred people, which is pretty remarkable, unprecedented for this early 0:08:38.196 --> 0:08:42.196 in the presidential term. You know, fifteen hundred of those 0:08:42.236 --> 0:08:44.996 were people who were involved in the events of January sixth. 0:08:45.076 --> 0:08:48.116 So he's also commuted many sentences, and we should talk 0:08:48.116 --> 0:08:50.036 about that a little bit, because a pardon is different 0:08:50.036 --> 0:08:51.076 than a commutation. 0:08:52.156 --> 0:08:55.116 Yeah, so this was a commutation, right. 0:08:55.676 --> 0:08:57.436 This was a commutation, not a pardon. 0:08:57.796 --> 0:09:00.476 So what is that like in plainspeak, what does that mean? 0:09:01.516 --> 0:09:05.116 Pardon is a full It basically wipes your slate clean. 0:09:06.076 --> 0:09:10.756 The crime is forgiven. A commutation just means we're wrapping 0:09:10.836 --> 0:09:14.076 up your time spent in incarceration. So George Santos was 0:09:14.116 --> 0:09:18.316 released from prison late Friday night after this commutation was announced. 0:09:18.716 --> 0:09:21.316 It doesn't change the fact that he was still charged 0:09:21.316 --> 0:09:23.796 with these crimes. He still pled guilty to these crimes, 0:09:23.836 --> 0:09:26.236 and he still served time for these crimes, and that 0:09:26.316 --> 0:09:28.356 will follow him for the rest of his life. This 0:09:28.476 --> 0:09:31.236 is something that actually Kathy Sorif stressed to me when 0:09:31.276 --> 0:09:32.036 I talked to her. 0:09:32.516 --> 0:09:33.676 He wasn't pardoned. 0:09:34.516 --> 0:09:39.276 His sentence was commuted. So he will have to live 0:09:39.556 --> 0:09:45.396 with the dishonor that he caused himself. That will not 0:09:45.556 --> 0:09:49.596 go away, and hopefully he will find some way to 0:09:49.756 --> 0:09:52.156 redeem himself by good work. 0:09:53.276 --> 0:09:57.596 Any sense for why President Trump would have opted to 0:09:57.636 --> 0:09:59.916 commute his sentence rather than just give him a pardon. 0:10:00.276 --> 0:10:02.076 Maybe that would have Maybe that would have upset the 0:10:02.476 --> 0:10:05.116 party in some way that they could It almost feels 0:10:05.156 --> 0:10:06.236 like it could be a compromise. 0:10:06.356 --> 0:10:08.076 Well, and this was really the question that I had 0:10:08.076 --> 0:10:11.796 for Kathy what we're talking about here, because Kathy sores 0:10:12.676 --> 0:10:16.156 she is a Republican and she is a big backer 0:10:16.196 --> 0:10:17.076 of President Trump. 0:10:17.956 --> 0:10:21.116 I know you to be a you know, a vocal 0:10:21.156 --> 0:10:24.556 supporter of President Trump, but also someone who has no 0:10:24.916 --> 0:10:25.876 love lost. 0:10:25.756 --> 0:10:27.556 For George Santos. 0:10:27.596 --> 0:10:29.796 So I'm just curious how you square those two things 0:10:29.836 --> 0:10:30.676 in a moment like this. 0:10:31.196 --> 0:10:33.436 Well, I don't really know. I don't know what Trump 0:10:33.556 --> 0:10:37.076 was thinking. I don't I don't know other than just 0:10:37.076 --> 0:10:41.556 saying that he thought the long prison sentence was unfair 0:10:41.956 --> 0:10:45.076 and why are we He's not a danger to society. 0:10:45.556 --> 0:10:50.156 His humiliation will carry with him for a long time, 0:10:50.516 --> 0:10:56.116 and that is quite a punishment. I didn't understand what 0:10:56.396 --> 0:10:59.676 benefit it would be. Certainly it's not a political benefit 0:10:59.796 --> 0:11:03.676 for Trump to pardon George Santos. George Santos isn't going 0:11:03.756 --> 0:11:07.156 to do a good darn thing for Trump, and by 0:11:07.236 --> 0:11:11.356 doing it, actually I thought it might have been harmful. 0:11:11.396 --> 0:11:15.156 So I didn't understand the source other than Trump thinking 0:11:15.196 --> 0:11:19.396 it just not fair that he had been sentenced really 0:11:19.476 --> 0:11:20.196 too harshly. 0:11:20.916 --> 0:11:23.556 I'm a little skeptical about I mean, like, I mean, 0:11:23.836 --> 0:11:26.076 the question is a fair one, like why would he 0:11:26.196 --> 0:11:29.796 do this? I'm somewhat dubious this is just done out 0:11:29.796 --> 0:11:33.556 of a sense of justice. I think that that doesn't 0:11:33.636 --> 0:11:35.116 ring true to me. I could think of a few 0:11:35.156 --> 0:11:37.076 reasons why this would be good for him to do. 0:11:37.556 --> 0:11:40.636 I mean, it reinforces the idea that if you're loyal 0:11:40.716 --> 0:11:43.036 to me, I will look out for you down the road. 0:11:43.356 --> 0:11:45.636 It's another day where he's in charge of the news cycle. 0:11:45.836 --> 0:11:48.396 It also casts further doubt on a justice system that 0:11:48.476 --> 0:11:51.876 he's run into before. But I always think that, like 0:11:52.276 --> 0:11:55.756 Donald Trump is a really smart strategist about the way 0:11:55.796 --> 0:11:57.676 he does things. I don't think he does things just 0:11:57.756 --> 0:11:59.716 He may do things on a whim, but it's following 0:11:59.716 --> 0:12:04.916 an instinct. And I'm just I'm just wondering what you 0:12:05.036 --> 0:12:09.316 think his strategy was here or why he did this. 0:12:09.556 --> 0:12:11.876 Is it just like a Is this just thank you 0:12:11.916 --> 0:12:13.636 for being loyal and if you're loyal to me, no 0:12:13.676 --> 0:12:16.356 matter what you've done, you get redeemed Or do you 0:12:16.396 --> 0:12:17.876 think there's more to it than that. 0:12:19.556 --> 0:12:21.276 I think that there's an argument to be made that 0:12:21.516 --> 0:12:25.316 Santos's loyalty is a huge factor in why we're talking 0:12:25.396 --> 0:12:27.996 right now and why Santos has been released. I think 0:12:28.036 --> 0:12:30.636 the other factor that we have to discuss is that 0:12:30.676 --> 0:12:34.356 he was held in solitary confinement, and from what we know, 0:12:34.476 --> 0:12:37.556 it seems like that's something that caught the president's attention. 0:12:38.276 --> 0:12:42.316 You heard Mark reference earlier. George Santos has been writing 0:12:42.356 --> 0:12:45.796 this sort of regular column for a newspaper on Long 0:12:45.796 --> 0:12:47.196 Island called The Soushore Press. 0:12:47.756 --> 0:12:47.956 You know. 0:12:48.116 --> 0:12:51.716 His most recent column came out just about a week ago, 0:12:51.876 --> 0:12:55.996 and he seems to be speaking to the president almost directly. 0:12:56.556 --> 0:12:59.356 He says, quote, I renew my plea to President Trump. 0:12:59.796 --> 0:13:03.476 Intervene helped me escape this daily torment and let me 0:13:03.556 --> 0:13:07.196 return to my family. So this really like heartfelt plea 0:13:07.316 --> 0:13:07.956 for release. 0:13:08.596 --> 0:13:08.836 You know. 0:13:08.916 --> 0:13:12.156 He he talks about his experience in solitary confinement. 0:13:12.556 --> 0:13:15.436 Remind us why is he in solitary confinement? 0:13:15.636 --> 0:13:19.036 George Santos found himself in solitary confinement. From the reporting 0:13:19.036 --> 0:13:21.316 that's out there, it seems he was not placed in 0:13:21.356 --> 0:13:24.876 solitary for any disciplinary reasons. He was placed in solitary 0:13:25.236 --> 0:13:27.916 because of an actual threat to his life. Then, so 0:13:28.036 --> 0:13:32.236 sometimes they might segregate an inmate for their own safety, 0:13:32.556 --> 0:13:35.516 but what George Santos maintains is that the conditions that 0:13:35.596 --> 0:13:38.476 he was held in were far from humane. He asked 0:13:38.476 --> 0:13:41.556 for his inhaler, and it took him hours, if not days, 0:13:41.596 --> 0:13:44.756 to receive it. He had panic attacks. So, I mean, 0:13:45.516 --> 0:13:48.876 solitary confinement is a real thing that this country has 0:13:48.916 --> 0:13:53.516 to grapple with. There are over forty thousand estimated inmates 0:13:53.556 --> 0:13:56.036 being held in solitary at any given time in this country. 0:13:56.516 --> 0:13:58.996 It is considered a form of torture according to you 0:13:59.076 --> 0:14:03.956 and guidelines, and you know, the psychological effects. You know, 0:14:04.036 --> 0:14:06.156 the actual conditions you're held in are one thing, but 0:14:06.476 --> 0:14:09.396 kind of what you carry with you after you leave 0:14:09.516 --> 0:14:12.676 is an entirely different conversation. This was clearly on the 0:14:12.676 --> 0:14:15.916 president's radar, right, So in that initial truth Social post, 0:14:16.156 --> 0:14:20.276 he called it out explicitly saying, quote, George has been 0:14:20.316 --> 0:14:23.716 in solitary confinement for long stretches of time and by 0:14:23.756 --> 0:14:27.516 all accounts, has been horribly mistreated. Therefore, I just signed 0:14:27.516 --> 0:14:29.476 a commutation releasing him from prison. 0:14:30.236 --> 0:14:31.996 Good luck, George, have a great life. 0:14:33.396 --> 0:14:40.676 I mean it's interesting because you know, if you imagine 0:14:40.716 --> 0:14:43.676 a world where George Santos was only sentenced to three 0:14:43.756 --> 0:14:47.796 months and he served his time and get out today, 0:14:49.276 --> 0:14:53.316 versus a storyline where George Santos had been sentenced to 0:14:53.396 --> 0:14:57.476 seven years was being held in solitary confinement and Donald 0:14:57.516 --> 0:15:02.076 Trump gives him this commutation and tells him good luck. 0:15:02.156 --> 0:15:05.236 I mean, it feels like for a man who likes 0:15:05.316 --> 0:15:08.756 dramatic storylines, it feels like a much more dramatic storyline. Plus, 0:15:08.756 --> 0:15:11.316 you've been kind of what you call it communtation, call 0:15:11.356 --> 0:15:14.716 it pardon. You've been blessed by President Trump, which is 0:15:14.836 --> 0:15:17.316 very meaningful in many circles in this country. 0:15:17.716 --> 0:15:17.836 Oh. 0:15:17.916 --> 0:15:21.756 Absolutely, I will say it's interesting. The story of George 0:15:21.756 --> 0:15:26.716 Santos remains really fascinating to me in its many evolutions, 0:15:26.796 --> 0:15:29.756 because I think, you know, it's easy to dismiss him. 0:15:30.196 --> 0:15:32.636 You know, he's a con artist, and why are we 0:15:32.676 --> 0:15:36.116 even still talking about this guy? But I think throughout 0:15:36.156 --> 0:15:39.436 this saga, you know, George Santos has been a really 0:15:39.596 --> 0:15:43.876 interesting window into the realities of the systems of the 0:15:43.916 --> 0:15:48.276 criminal legal system. There are millions of people who interact 0:15:48.316 --> 0:15:51.396 with our court system and our prison system every day, 0:15:52.036 --> 0:15:54.636 but they are not famous, they do not have names 0:15:54.636 --> 0:16:00.236 that you recognize. But here we are talking about solitary confinement, 0:16:00.676 --> 0:16:05.836 talking about mandatory minimums, talking about what it means to 0:16:05.916 --> 0:16:08.636 have a felony on your record because it's in the 0:16:08.676 --> 0:16:10.956 news because of George Santos. 0:16:14.036 --> 0:16:28.476 We'll be right back. Have we heard from George since 0:16:28.516 --> 0:16:29.516 he's been released? 0:16:30.676 --> 0:16:30.836 So? 0:16:31.116 --> 0:16:36.556 George Santos posted on Saturday, the day after he was released, saying, quote, 0:16:36.876 --> 0:16:40.116 yesterday I was given something I never thought i'd have again, 0:16:40.636 --> 0:16:43.676 a true second chance at life, a chance to grow, 0:16:44.116 --> 0:16:49.476 to change, and to walk a better path. He goes 0:16:49.516 --> 0:16:52.316 on to say, my goal now is to turn my 0:16:52.436 --> 0:16:56.436 past into something meaningful, to help create a justice system 0:16:56.796 --> 0:17:01.836 that truly believes in rehabilitation and second chances. Yes, I 0:17:01.876 --> 0:17:04.076 am back, but I am back as a new man, 0:17:04.636 --> 0:17:06.276 ready to work and do good. 0:17:08.396 --> 0:17:11.716 I mean, what's what's so interesting about this to me 0:17:12.996 --> 0:17:16.316 is Sando's as many things, dumb is clearly not one 0:17:16.356 --> 0:17:21.116 of them. Whether he's sincere or there's a hustle here 0:17:22.356 --> 0:17:26.156 remains to be seen. But I think that what he 0:17:26.276 --> 0:17:30.476 does is he's picking up He's using something that's real, 0:17:30.716 --> 0:17:33.796 which is his own experience. He's using something that's real, 0:17:33.836 --> 0:17:37.516 which is solitary confinement. It's like an organic storyline. It's 0:17:37.596 --> 0:17:41.676 just the given who this guy is. It's damn hard 0:17:41.716 --> 0:17:44.356 to take anything he says at face value. Let me 0:17:44.396 --> 0:17:46.796 ask you this because this is what I'm also wondering about, 0:17:46.996 --> 0:17:50.756 is restitution, right, So what about that? Like, is he 0:17:50.836 --> 0:17:51.716 still on the hook for that? 0:17:52.636 --> 0:17:53.636 Yeah, it's a good question. 0:17:53.916 --> 0:17:58.236 So over the weekend, one of the US Parton attorneys 0:17:58.236 --> 0:18:02.156 who handled the commutation actually tweeted out what appears to 0:18:02.196 --> 0:18:06.676 be the actual document that Trump signed, and it's in 0:18:06.716 --> 0:18:10.276 black and white, pretty clear language that this is an 0:18:10.316 --> 0:18:15.396 immediate commutation of his entire sentence time served with no 0:18:15.596 --> 0:18:20.676 further fines, restitution, probation, supervis release, etc. 0:18:20.956 --> 0:18:21.396 Etca. 0:18:21.556 --> 0:18:25.636 So it seems on paper he is not on the 0:18:25.676 --> 0:18:28.836 hook for this. Santos appeared on CNN over the weekend, 0:18:29.196 --> 0:18:32.116 interviewed by Dana Bash and she actually asked him this 0:18:32.156 --> 0:18:32.796 exact question. 0:18:33.396 --> 0:18:36.476 You were ordered to by the court to pay three 0:18:36.516 --> 0:18:39.516 hundred and seventy thousand dollars in restitution to the people 0:18:39.716 --> 0:18:41.996 you defrauded. Will you still pay that back? 0:18:42.996 --> 0:18:45.676 Well, if you really say the people, I just want 0:18:45.716 --> 0:18:47.676 to be clear with your audience so that we're not 0:18:47.836 --> 0:18:51.836 misleading them. Eighty five percent of that really goes into 0:18:51.876 --> 0:18:57.396 the investment made into my campaign for polling and TV 0:18:57.556 --> 0:19:01.396 ads and literature by the National Republican Congressional Committee. The 0:19:01.476 --> 0:19:04.436 investment was made to win a race. I won that race. 0:19:04.716 --> 0:19:06.876 There was no fraud there. This is a case we 0:19:07.036 --> 0:19:09.716 argued with the prosecution, but they needed to inflate the 0:19:09.796 --> 0:19:13.916 numbers in order to make it a more appealing case 0:19:14.156 --> 0:19:17.356 for them in federal court instead of just going after 0:19:17.796 --> 0:19:21.516 the mishandling of finances, which, by the way, most members 0:19:21.556 --> 0:19:25.196 of Congress currently who are still serving in both parties, 0:19:25.436 --> 0:19:29.196 whoever have had issues with FEC filings, they pay fines. 0:19:29.276 --> 0:19:34.556 Nobody actually goes to prison. So it's inequitable in its nature. 0:19:34.756 --> 0:19:37.676 Well, this is about a fine, and this is about 0:19:37.676 --> 0:19:41.396 paying money back. And whether you describe them as victims 0:19:41.596 --> 0:19:45.876 or just donors to the NRCC, what the court said 0:19:45.996 --> 0:19:48.036 is that they should get their money back. Will you 0:19:48.076 --> 0:19:48.876 work to try. 0:19:48.676 --> 0:19:49.036 To do that? 0:19:49.836 --> 0:19:52.476 Well, look, I can do my best to do whatever 0:19:52.516 --> 0:19:55.756 the law requires of me, So I don't know what 0:19:55.756 --> 0:19:58.396 that is. I've been out of prison for two days. 0:19:58.396 --> 0:20:00.996 I agree to come here to speak with you candidly 0:20:01.036 --> 0:20:04.316 and openly, and not to offuscate. If it's required of 0:20:04.356 --> 0:20:06.596 me by the law. Yes, if it's not, then no, 0:20:06.836 --> 0:20:09.196 I will do whatever the law it requires. 0:20:08.716 --> 0:20:09.076 Me to do. 0:20:10.036 --> 0:20:13.636 It's so interesting he's not really answering the question. He's saying, well, 0:20:13.636 --> 0:20:15.596 I'll do it the law requires of me. But as 0:20:15.716 --> 0:20:17.476 we understand that the law is saying that he doesn't 0:20:17.516 --> 0:20:19.876 have to pay the money back, I would almost respect 0:20:19.916 --> 0:20:22.236 him more if he's like, hey, President Trump, SAI didn't 0:20:22.236 --> 0:20:23.876 have to pay it back. Why would I pay it back? 0:20:24.196 --> 0:20:28.036 You know, it's like, but no, it has to be well, 0:20:28.396 --> 0:20:31.116 I wasn't really taking from people. I was taking from 0:20:31.236 --> 0:20:33.836 you know, these funds as if that money was what 0:20:33.996 --> 0:20:36.556 printed by the Republican National Party, like those were the 0:20:36.756 --> 0:20:37.556 donor's money. 0:20:37.836 --> 0:20:41.396 Yeah, somebody's money that he took. Look, this is another 0:20:41.436 --> 0:20:45.476 example of Santos being well versed in political spin. 0:20:45.756 --> 0:20:50.916 Yeah. Absolutely, I wonder, I mean, do you have a 0:20:50.956 --> 0:20:54.676 sense for where you think? I mean, apparently he's going 0:20:54.716 --> 0:20:58.636 to become an outspoken voice for prison reform. Besides that, 0:20:58.796 --> 0:21:00.956 do you have a sense for where we might see 0:21:00.996 --> 0:21:02.356 him next? 0:21:02.916 --> 0:21:06.516 Yes, I've also been thinking about that, and I asked 0:21:06.596 --> 0:21:10.196 Mark Gasano, the journalist who has looked to Santos and 0:21:10.316 --> 0:21:14.876 his life more than anyone else, Really this exact question. 0:21:15.516 --> 0:21:17.836 I guess the question now is what happens next with 0:21:17.916 --> 0:21:18.476 a guy like this. 0:21:18.876 --> 0:21:20.916 That's sort of the open question with Santos, and sort 0:21:20.916 --> 0:21:24.516 of always has been. People always wonder was he going 0:21:24.596 --> 0:21:26.836 to change? Is this kind of the end with him? 0:21:27.596 --> 0:21:31.436 Or is he just going to move to another scam? 0:21:31.756 --> 0:21:34.276 Who knows? With him? He sort of said different things 0:21:34.316 --> 0:21:37.276 at different times that he is repentance that he isn't. 0:21:38.396 --> 0:21:42.756 I'll note though, that he did reactivate his cameo account, 0:21:42.916 --> 0:21:46.196 so there's that he's at least trying that again. I 0:21:46.236 --> 0:21:47.796 definitely don't think we've heard the last of him. 0:21:49.876 --> 0:21:52.316 The cameo account is the one where he gives like 0:21:52.356 --> 0:21:53.236 the birthday wishes. 0:21:53.836 --> 0:21:56.756 Yes, you could pay George Santos. I'm curious, Actually, I'll 0:21:56.796 --> 0:22:00.356 look how much? How much the going rate is right now? 0:22:00.396 --> 0:22:02.956 But you could pay him to record a birthday message? 0:22:03.236 --> 0:22:05.116 Or Yeah, what is what is the going rate? 0:22:05.436 --> 0:22:08.796 Book a personal video? One fifty plus? Oh it's a 0:22:08.796 --> 0:22:09.796 flash sale. 0:22:12.036 --> 0:22:15.196 One that's half off right now. 0:22:15.316 --> 0:22:18.196 We're catching it on a on. 0:22:18.196 --> 0:22:18.956 A flash sail. 0:22:19.356 --> 0:22:22.836 Oh my goodness. Yeah, we're not seeing to lest this guy. 0:22:23.036 --> 0:22:25.876 My spidy sense tells me that in the not too 0:22:25.876 --> 0:22:29.276