WEBVTT - Legacy [15] 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.119 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.800 those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.640 and do not necessarily represent those of iHeart Media, Stuff Media, 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:15.760 or its employees. Over the course of our investigation, we 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.520 conducted nearly one interviews and combed through dozens of police 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.800 records in old newspaper articles, We traveled to the crime 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.440 sites and unearthed hours of archival footage that hadn't been 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.880 heard since its original broadcast. It's easy to get lost 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.040 in this fifty year old mystery. As we investigated the case, 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.320 we met people who were there when it all started. 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.680 Their stories are an important reminder that this case is 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.600 rooted in a very real tragedy. Through all these conversations, 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.760 we also discovered new facts about the case and began 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.560 to see cracks in the stories engraved in the zodiac lore, 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:51.640 even going back to the first attack in the Bay Area, 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.440 the murders of Betty lu Jensen and David Faraday just 0:00:55.600 --> 0:01:04.800 five days before Christmas. By Lewis really head over heels 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.360 for David. I didn't meet him until the night that 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.080 they were killed, because they came to her house that night. 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:15.200 My name was John Henslin and I grew up in Vaio, California. 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:20.560 There was they Lewis, my sister's best friend since Kenny Garden. 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.360 She came to the house Calle often. She drew a lot, 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.240 and she was really into Snoopy and she wanted to 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.440 be an artist. Vitty Lou and David came to her 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.200 house that night and this was supposed to be their 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.039 first date, which really wasn't their first date because they 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.200 were seeing each other at school. He went to val 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:42.600 High and she went to Hogan which was across town. 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.280 But my sister said that they would always see each 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.680 other lunchtime and stuff like that, so they were, you know, 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.080 dating for a while, but officially as far as her 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.720 parents were concerned, my sister she had a boyfriend that 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.000 was a little bit older. At a car, her and 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.440 Vitty Lou and David and her boyfriend were supposed to 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:03.520 go to San Francisco. Was a story that they were 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.480 telling my parents that night, and my sister's boyfriend was 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.680 late showing up finding my sister said go wherever you 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.200 need to go because I can't find my boyfriend, and 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.080 she walked him into the car and they made plans 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.919 to go up that next morning to go shopping and 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.639 Vitty Lou and David drove off and that was the 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.240 last time in we saw him. It really affected my 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.280 sister a lot, because, you know, the phone rang the 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.639 next morning. It was our friend across the street heard 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:36.200 on radio that Bailey was killed, and my sister just 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:40.200 went nuts. It was five days before Christmas and she 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:45.120 was sixteen, and it just ruined everything for everybody. You know, 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.160 it was pretty sad, and you know the things that 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.280 went on with the the police and everything about you know, 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.560 what they thought happened and when they're trying to find 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.320 out what happened. And it was hard on my sister 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.000 because in those days, they went down to the police 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.280 station and talked to the detectives without my parents or anything, 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.679 because you know, they didn't have that Miranda thing or 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.480 any of that kind of stuff. And they were showing 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.880 my sister the the bullets that came out of Betty 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:15.000 Low and saying, you know, we know this was a 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.760 drug deal and we need you to tell us what happened. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.240 And they went the next day and went through my 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.600 sister's locker because herne Bailey shared a locker at school, 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:27.639 and it was really hard on my sister, the way 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.880 they treat her and where they try to get her 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:33.040 to confess this big drug deal going bad that they 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.200 thought it all was, but it never was anything to 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:39.520 do with drugs because they were just you know, just 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:43.240 say steam. They were really into that lifestyle at all, 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.080 you know, even though my sister and boyfriend was one 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.560 of the big drug dealers in town and he ended 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.000 up odin later on anyhow, you know, but the cops 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:55.839 thought it that's all it was, was some drug deal 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:58.960 going bad and trying to get my sister to confess 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.040 to what she knew of out it. They were really 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.480 really mean to her and you know, showing her the 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:06.840 bullets that came out of her and there was guns 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:08.800 in the room and saying these were kind of guns 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.320 that shot her, and you know, she was really really 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:16.360 affected by it forever, you know, for years, basically you 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.400 just did one movie know where she was or who 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.000 she was or nothing for a long long time. For 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.279 fear of the fact that the Zodiac could still be 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:28.599 around somewhere, we reached out to John Hencelin after getting 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:31.360 a tip from a zodiologist we met in San Francisco. 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.080 We wondered how many other people no untold parts of 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.679 this story and have held their tongues out of fear, 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.880 because we fear that with every passing year, more clues 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.360 may be lost forever. And we hope that those who 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.040 do know something will come forward, because a single interview, 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:54.880 a single story, can change everything. The thing that really 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.840 happened that affected us again was July fourth murder at 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:03.080 Blue Rock Springs. My sister was out with her boyfriend 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.679 that night, and if you weren't home at midnight, yours 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.480 a call in to you know, get clearance on when 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.080 you're coming home or everybody where you're at. Well, it 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.400 was fourth of July, so everybody was up late, and 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.560 my mother was worried, and my sister wasn't home after midnight. 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.640 So I had this multi band radio that got police calls. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.560 About ten after twelve, I get the radio out, we 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:26.719 turn it on and started listening to the police calls 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.440 and nothing major going on. All of a sudden, the 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:34.360 report comes from Blue Rock Springs of brown Chevy with 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.760 two kids in it and they were shot, and they're 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:39.760 talking about, you know, the kind of car, what the 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:41.919 kids look like, and they looked like my sister and 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.800 her boyfriend and he had a brown Chevy, and my 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.599 mother was going nuts, and then they're saying the girl 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.839 was dead and the guy wasn't and the bullets were nine. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.880 The moment lugers and we're all going nuts on what 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.400 was going on. Five ten minutes later, my sister comes 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.160 walking in the door and when, where the hell have 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.520 you been? Do you know what's going on? And never 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:10.159 really scared everybody, especially my mother. The weird thing about it, 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.160 you know, years later thinking about it. Ten minutes later, 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.440 that's when the Zodiac called the police station to report 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.520 a double murder and told everybody, you know, it was 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.720 a nine milliment or louder. And when he sent the 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.599 letter to the paper, he said, to prove that I'm 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.600 who it was that killed him, I'll tell you only 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.280 things that I know, and the police no. But if 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.279 you go through and read the police reports, it's almost 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.760 word for word, verbatim on what the police said in 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.480 the police reports and exactly what I heard the police 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:48.240 say on the radio that night. So you know, it 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.080 makes sense that it was somebody from Valleo, somebody that 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.560 was in that area and had a scanner in your 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.560 car or something and heard everything because you know, he 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.200 said the things before any of the police are words 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.840 ever came out. So it was a coincidence that the 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.640 guy knew everything that the police knew, and he actually 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:14.200 repeated everything that we heard on the radio. A man 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:17.480 in a mask robbed and tied and stabbed them, leaving 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.840 them for dad. Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:26.560 no a double murder. I did it. A man who 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:30.200 wore an evil style executioner's hood, carried a knife and 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:34.640 gun and intended to use them. They haven't arrested me 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:39.559 because they can't prove it. I'm not damn Zodiac. Who 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.200 is the Zodiac and where is he? From My Heart Radio, 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:48.120 How Staff works and Tenderfoot TV, this is monster the 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:53.280 Zodiac killer? Is the Zodiac? A man, a myth or 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.440 something in between. As we conclude the season, we'll investigate 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.400 one of the most frightening theories about the Zodiac, and 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.000 we'll explore the Zodiac's legacy. How is he alluded capture 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.720 for fifty years but still stuck in our minds? Where 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.560 is the Zodiac now? And where will he fit in history? 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:17.360 After Darlene Ferrin and Michael Majau were shot, someone called 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.040 the police department to report a murder. If you will 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.240 go one mile east on Columbus Parkway, you'll find kids 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.920 in a brown car. They were shot with a nine 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:30.440 millimeter luker, I also killed those kids last year, goodbye? 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.760 Could that phone call have been just a cruel prank 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:38.000 by someone who heard the police dispatch? And weeks later 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.319 when the first letters arrived, how can we be sure 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.840 that those letters were sent by the killer himself and 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.440 not by someone else with access to information about the murders, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.480 a photographer or police officer at the crime scene, or 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:57.280 an overly ambitious journalist. Dear editor, this is the murderer 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:00.480 of the two teenagers last Christmas at Lake Herman. To 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.000 prove I killed them, I shall state some facts which 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.000 only I and the police know. One brand name of 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:11.480 Ammo super X. Two ten shots were fired. And of 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.000 course there's been theories over the years that they invented 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:18.679 the Zodiac to sell more newspapers. Zodiac expert Michael Butterfield 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.960 says some posit that the Zodiac killer was just an 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.640 elaborate hoax, that there was no serial killer at all, 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:30.360 just a letter writer linking together entirely separate crimes and 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.120 I can't say that there wasn't any part of these 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.680 newspaper editors who were seeing a green you know, saying 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.720 oh my god, okay, well, this is gonna certainly spike 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:44.599 our circulation. At the Lake berries a stabbing of Cecilia 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.920 Shepherd and Brian Hartnell. The killer donned the zodiacs now 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.280 iconic outfit and scrawled a message on the victim's car. 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.320 He drew the crosshairs Zodiac symbol, listed the dates of 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.360 the first three attacks, and wrote only four words v LEO, 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:04.040 timber and by knife. But do the outfit and message 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.360 on the car truly proved the Berryessa attack was linked 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:10.120 to the other crimes. Could the attacker have been a 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.640 copycat killer inspired by news stories about the Zodiac. Really 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.080 only two things linked the Berryessa attack to the other killings. 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:23.840 The attackers m o in handwriting analysis. But how accurately 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.959 can experts determine the author of just a few words 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.720 scrawled on the side of a car. And wasn't this 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.600 attack with knives rope in a costume a deviation from 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:38.440 the Zodiac's usual method. Most serial killers do follow some 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.320 discernible pattern where the victims match some criteria. You know, 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.480 But for someone who had committed two shootings of couples 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.839 sitting in parked cars and lovers lanes at night and 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.800 secluded areas, the fact that the Zodiac then showed up 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.000 in a popular recreation area during the day, why did 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.760 he change his m O from blitz creeg shootings at 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.880 night to daylight stabbings of young couples sitting out on 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.920 a lake. There's a theory that the attack at Lake 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.280 Berryessa was a copycat killer who was inspired by what 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.920 he read in the newspapers. Now, I don't think that 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.600 the evidence supports that theory, especially the fact that experts 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.679 have determined that the handwriting on the car door matches. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.679 Now you can disagree with the experts, But if it 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.240 was the Zodiac, again, why this drastic departure from his 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.640 previous m O, and then why no effort to communicate 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:36.520 or take credit for it in any meaningful way. Strangely, 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.280 the Zodiac never directly referred to the Lake Berryessa stabbing 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.480 in any of his letters. This was his most iconic attack, 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.640 and for someone who seemed to delight in boasting about 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:52.280 his crimes, leaving it out seems odd. But Butterfield says 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:56.000 there's one real weakness in any Zodiac coax theory, the 0:11:56.080 --> 0:12:00.520 murder of San Francisco cab driver Paul Stein. It's hard 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.440 to imagine a scenario where the letter writer wasn't at 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.720 least somehow connected to Stein's killing, because pieces of Stein's 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:12.160 bloody shirt were included in the next three Zodiac letters. Now, 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.240 it's possible that the Zodiac felt this was necessary because 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.680 there was a lot of speculation about crimes that he 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.640 had committed or crimes that were being linked to him 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.400 in the media. He may have felt it was necessary 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.120 to prove beyond any doubt that he was responsible for 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.800 that crime. So we can safely link the Zodiac letters 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.040 to the murder of cab driver Paul Stein. But could 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:39.200 the fixation on finding a single suspect responsible for all 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.800 of the crimes have led investigators to discount viable suspects 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:49.200 for some of the crimes. For example, is it possible 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:53.280 that prime suspect Arthur Lee Allen was actually a copycat killer. 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.480 He admitted to police he had bloody knives in his 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.679 car on the day of the Lake Barriesa stabbings knives 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.120 he leaned he used to slaughter chickens. Could it be 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.680 that Alan was responsible for the berries a static but 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:09.800 had nothing to do with the other Zodiac murders or 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.840 any of the letters. But I'm not the Zodiac killer. 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.080 I know that. I know that deep in my shoul. 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:24.319 When Valleo Place searched Arthur Lee Allen's home, they discovered 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.920 some clippings about the Zodiac case. Although we don't know 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.520 precisely what those were, some of them may have been 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.920 related to the book Zodiac. If I could go back 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.080 and give myself some advice, the very first piece of 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:53.359 advice I would give myself is be skeptical of everything. Ultimately, 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.840 Michael Butterfield believes in a simple explanation for the Zodiac crimes. 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.720 The Five Bay Area murders, the phone calls, and most 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.280 of the letters were the work of a single man, 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.080 a man we know only as the Zodiac. As I 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.320 have always said, I believe the fingerprints, the handwriting, the DNA, 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.199 the palm print, I believe those things belong to the killer. 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.360 And when they actually do find the killer, I believe 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.400 that evidence will match him and we will be able 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.960 to write the end of this story. But there are 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:29.400 many points of disagreement between different investigators, and there's still 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:33.480 debate about the scope of the Zodiac's crimes. Which letters 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.760 did the Zodiacs send and which were forgeries, how much 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:40.720 can we trust the witness identifications, and who are the 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.840 confirmed victims. You have to be careful when you're discussing 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:48.800 possible Zodiac crimes because once you assume that another crime 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.040 has been committed by the Zodiac, you're taking on all 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.840 the elements of that case, including the evidence. So in 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.040 a case like the Riverside murder of Sherry Joe Bates 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.600 in six, there is DNA associated with that case. And 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.640 if you assume that the Zodiac is responsible for the crime, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.280 and then you have a suspect whose DNA does not 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.840 match the DNA and the Riverside case, you could mistakenly 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.960 exclude someone because it is possible that the Riverside case 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.400 is not connected to the Zodiac and therefore the Zodiacs 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.080 DNA would have nothing to do with the Riverside case. 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.840 The same applies to the failed abduction of Kathleen John's 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.160 in Vy. You have to be very careful because at 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.640 the end of the day, it's perfectly possible the Zodiac 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:38.200 was not involved at all. Even in a podcast of 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.360 this length. There are many theories and clues we haven't 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:46.280 been able to explore, like the water theory. Many Zodiac 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.840 killings occurred by bodies of water or at locations named 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:56.440 after water, Blue Rock Springs, Lake Herman, Lake Berriessa. Did 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.880 he intentionally pick these places for that reason? And could 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.000 this therefore be a clue. The water theory also seems 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.960 to fit the murders of Sherry Joe Bates in Riverside, 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.160 and of Robert Dominguez and Linda Edwards, who were killed 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.480 on a beach in Santa Barbara, and even Donna Lass 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.280 who disappeared from Lake Tahoe, and Dana Lull who was 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.440 dropped down a mine shaft off Mountain Springs Road. And 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.600 many wonder about the Zodiac's apparent fascination with the Makado, 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.440 a Gilbert and Sullivan opera. In three later letters, the 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:36.280 Zodiac paraphrased lyrics from the Macado as someday it may 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.600 happen that a victim must be found. I've got a 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.240 little list. I've got a little list of society offenders 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.000 who might well be underground, who would never be missed, 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.400 who would never be missed, there is the pestilential nuisances 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:51.400 who write for autographs, all people who have flabby hands 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.240 and irritating laughs, all children who were up in dates, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.480 employee with implatte, all people who were shaking hands, shake 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.840 hands like that, and all third persons with spoiling kick. 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.120 Those who insist they'd none of them be missed, they'd 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:09.800 none of them be missed. In fact, the Zodiac's letters 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.800 alluded to many works of popular culture. When he talked 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.200 about shooting victims with an electric flashlight attached to the 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.680 barrel of a gun, that might have come from an 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.520 episode of Alfred Hitchcock presents. Another thing that he wrote 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.520 on a letter about methods of killing by knife, by fire, 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.440 by gun and rope might have come from an old 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.520 comic book. You know. He referred to the Blue Meanies 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:35.400 in the movie Yellow Submarine. And it appears that at 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.919 a certain point the Zodiac started writing letters as a 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.720 media critic. He complained that the movie The Exorcist was 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:47.080 a satirical comedy. He complained about the glorification of violence 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:50.200 in the movie The bad Lands, and in turn, the 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.680 Zodiac greatly impacted pop culture himself. For example, consider the 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:59.960 Zodiac school bus threats. He almost goes to a symbol 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.040 of innocence school children, not of us. That's like, you know, 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:09.879 killing a grandmother. It's particularly diabolical. That's Peter Richardson, historian 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.159 and lecturer at San Francisco State University. And interestingly, that's 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:18.520 the part that creates the afterlife for the Zodiac as well, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:23.520 because that incident is what gets Clinton Eastwood's first big movie, 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:28.240 Going Dirty, Harry his first big star turn. I know 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.399 what you're thinking, Bitty by her six shots are only five? 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.399 Being this supporting for Magnet, the most powerful handgun in 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.240 the world, you get to ask yourself one question, Do 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:42.240 I feel lucky? Well? Do your bunker? The influence of 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.760 pop culture may explain why there are so many theories 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.760 and so much misinformation about the Zodiac case, But why 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.159 has the Zodiac in particular fascinated the public for the 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.520 last fifty years. Here's San Francisco Chronicle reporter Kevin Fagan. 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.359 I've covered a lot of killers with a lot higher 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.760 body counts and a lot more sick, twisted ways of 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:07.080 killing people. William Bond on the freeway killer. That guy 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.440 killed forty boys, raped him in a van tortured him, 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.639 killed him in horrible ways, and throw him out naked 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.760 on the freeway. That's a little worse than what the 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:20.600 Zodiac did. I find it kind of sad because the 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.440 thing that makes it interesting is this guy was theatrical 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:25.800 that if it hadn't been for the ciphers and the 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:30.119 taunting letters in particular, no one would remember this guy. 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.600 The Zodiac's killings are theatrical. They almost feel ripped from 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:39.480 the pages of crime fiction. There's a masked villain cryptic 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.560 codes said to contain his identity in the murders of 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.439 teenagers who made the tragic mistake of going to a 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:51.040 lover's lane. Michael Butterfield thinks this helped sustain the Zodiac's infamy. 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.679 That's always been part of the horror story lexicon, the 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.920 idea of the lover's lane killer, you know, the guy 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.720 with the hook and all those stories. So that just 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.280 it into that and it was terrifying on a whole 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.040 new level because, unlike those other stories that you hear 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.000 about the hook man or whatever, this guy actually shows up. 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:10.840 One of the things that was most terrifying about it 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.320 was the fact that these people were selected at random, 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.080 that they were young kids who had so much going 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.399 for them. I think people can understand more when you 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.240 know it's I hate to say it, when someone's raped 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.159 and murdered, you can understand why the person did it, 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.720 what their motive was. And maybe our hesitancy to talk 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:33.080 about sexual violence helps explain his prominence as well. Maybe 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.000 the fact that the Zodiac was just a killer who 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.760 didn't torture or sexually assault his victims made his crimes 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.399 easier to discuss. In a culture obsessed with violence but 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:47.920 squeamish about sex, we are surrounded by violence all the time, 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.879 but we're not aware of that. If you want proof, 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.840 just look at the television listings for any given day 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.399 of the week and think about how many of the 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:01.679 shows revolve around homicidal by lence. David Schmidt is an 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.000 English professor at the University of Buffalo. He's an expert 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.639 on the intersection of crime and popular culture. We spoke 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.280 with him to try and understand America's fascination with violence. 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.280 You will find that it's everywhere, and yet we don't 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.360 see it because we've become so used to it now. 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.240 Part of the reason for this is that popular culture 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.800 that deals with violence is always faced with a problem, 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:30.520 how do you make violence entertain him but also make 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.560 it possible for the viewer not to feel guilty about 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:40.879 enjoying violence, and popular culture has been incredibly successful in 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.760 coming up with a variety of ways to quite frankly, 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.600 let viewers off the hook. So, for example, big fans 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:49.960 of C. S I. They will tell you, well, I 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.840 don't really like the violence. I just watch it because 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.640 I'm interested in forensic technology. Or fans of the Law 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.600 and Order franchise will say, yeah, it's very violent, but 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:02.800 I learned so much about the legal process from watching it. 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:08.680 Popular culture provides them with reasons to justify their interest 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:12.480 in violence, and so after a while that violence becomes 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.440 just an invisible part of the background. We don't want 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.159 to think about it, we're not made to think about it, 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.000 so there's no reason for us to see it. And 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:26.160 Schmidt says media often popularizes or even glorifies serial killers. 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.119 Not long after I moved to the US, the Science 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.800 of the Lamb's film came out, and the Night of 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:36.640 the Oscars broadcast began with Billy Crystal being wheeled out 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.760 onto the stage with a hockey mask on like Hannibal 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:44.160 Lector in the film, and now your host, Mr Billy Crystal, 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.120 I'm having some of the academy over for dinner. Care 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:53.399 to join me? And the entire broadcast was basically a 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:56.760 tribute to that character. So I'm sitting there watching this 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.800 and I'm thinking to myself, what does it say about 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:04.920 temporary American society that this type of event is dedicated 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:09.400 to a fictional, cannibalistic serial killer. And I realized at 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.359 that point. The popularity of the film version of the 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.600 Silence of the Lambs can be explained, among other things, 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.479 by the fact that the film is very, very clever 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:23.639 in allowing us to maintain some kind of identification with 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:28.840 Hannibal Lectera. He's highly educated, he is apparently a genius, 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.920 and in the film he quite literally walks off into 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:36.240 the sunset, almost like you know, the hero walking off 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.440 into the sunset. I do wish we could chat lander, 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:43.640 but I'm having an old fan for dinner, and it's 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.560 true he is the hero of the film. To some extent. 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.200 There are parallels between the depictions of the Zodiac in 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:54.680 Hannibal Lecter. The Zodiac is often presented as a criminal mastermind, 0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:59.440 an expert marksman, and a crafter of uncrackable codes and stories, 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:02.399 often for us on him to the exclusion of telling 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.480 the stories of his victims or examining why his story 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:09.040 is important to tell. Now, if you can trast a 0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:11.280 film like Signs to the Lambs with a film like 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:15.440