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Speaker 1: So many factors will go into whether or not you

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Speaker 1: succeed or fail at something. It's not as easy as

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Speaker 1: just being like, I'm going to work harder than everyone else.

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Speaker 1: But if you can sort of just embrace the journey,

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Speaker 1: the highs and the lows, the winds and the losses,

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Speaker 1: I think you can learn a lot from that and

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Speaker 1: gain a lot from that.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Hurdler's Emily Abadi here bringing you episode one hundred

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Speaker 2: and ten of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I

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Speaker 2: sit down with inspiring individuals to talk about everything from

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Speaker 2: their big wins to how they've gotten through some of

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Speaker 2: life's toughest moments. On the show, you can expect vulnerability, motivation,

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Speaker 2: and candid discussions with everyone from top athletes to aspiring

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Speaker 2: entrepreneurs on what it really takes to follow your passions.

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Speaker 2: My mission is simple to inspire you to be your

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Speaker 2: best self, move with intention.

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Speaker 3: And have some fun along the way. This week, I

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Speaker 3: am talking to Matt Taylor. He is the CEO and

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Speaker 3: founder of Tracksmith, a running apparel and accessories company. In

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Speaker 3: today's episode, Matt tells me about his aspirations to run

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Speaker 3: professionally after growing up in Pittsburgh running cross country in

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Speaker 3: high school and then at the collegiate level at Yale.

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Speaker 3: He tells me that his times just weren't cutting it,

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Speaker 3: and so we pivoted to a few different jobs in

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Speaker 3: the sports industry at places like IMG and Puma before

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Speaker 3: launching Tracksmith. At the time, he said that he was

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Speaker 3: frustrated with the appearance of almost all running gear, and

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Speaker 3: after raising some money, he kickstarted the brand with men's

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Speaker 3: apparel in twenty fourteen and has since grown.

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Speaker 2: His team, introduced their magazine meter, and rolled out women's

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Speaker 2: apparel as well. We chat about everything from the date

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Speaker 2: of Running Right Now and the shift of the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty Olympic Games, to what it was like to open

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Speaker 2: the brand's first brick and mortar store in Boston, and

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Speaker 2: is big hope for the future of not just the company,

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Speaker 2: but of Running Fun fact, when we recorded this episode,

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Speaker 2: I may or may not have discovered a mouse in

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Speaker 2: my apartment, and since them have had serious PTSD, the

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Speaker 2: audio of that component has since been removed from today's episode.

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Speaker 2: But I will tell you that every recording you know,

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Speaker 2: they're each special in their own right, but this one,

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Speaker 2: it is special to me beyondwards A highlight of my

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Speaker 2: last few months for sure. Now, before we get to

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Speaker 2: this week's episode, I want to take a moment to thank.

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Speaker 2: Just head on over to athleticgreens dot com slash Hurdle Again,

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Speaker 2: that's Athleticgreens dot com slash Hurdle to get yours.

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Speaker 3: Today, No code necessary.

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Speaker 2: As always, y'all know the drill at Hurdle podcast and

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Speaker 2: at Emily a body on social.

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Speaker 3: If you have a hurdle moment of your own to.

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Speaker 2: Share with me, or you just want to say hi,

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Speaker 2: I am always available over email.

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Speaker 3: It's Emily at hurdle dot us and I.

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Speaker 2: Do want to throw out there are a huge thanks

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Speaker 2: to some of you for heading on into the iTunes store,

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Speaker 2: rating and reviewing the podcast over the last few weeks.

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Speaker 2: It makes a huge difference helping Hurdle show up on

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Speaker 2: the charts and get some of the visibility that I

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Speaker 3: My favorite quote comes from Ash Cornell last week. She says,

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Speaker 3: Hurdle podcast is my greatest takeaway from the pandemic. So

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Speaker 3: many feel thank you. I appreciate you. And with that,

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Speaker 3: let's get to hurdling today. I'm sitting down with Matt Taylor.

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Speaker 3: He's the co founder and CEO of Tracksmith.

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Speaker 1: How you doing, Matt, I'm pretty good? How are you?

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Speaker 3: I am good? I'm going to start us off with

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Speaker 3: a heart hitting question here, what was your last run.

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Speaker 1: Like on was like two hours ago? And Boston. We

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Speaker 1: are certainly in the sort of fickle spring phase where

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Speaker 1: this past weekend it was actually interesting. Saturday we had

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Speaker 1: like two or three inches of snow. Sunday it was

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Speaker 1: sixty and sunny and beautiful. But yeah, today, forty minutes

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Speaker 1: relatively easy from.

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Speaker 3: My house from my house, so you're located just outside

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Speaker 3: of Boston, and that is where Tracksmith was born. So

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Speaker 3: as we get into the swing of things today, why

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Speaker 3: don't you give me a little clip of what Tracksmith is.

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Speaker 1: Sure, so, Tracksmith is a performance running brand. We make

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Speaker 1: pail and accessories for men and women. We're about five

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Speaker 1: and a half years old at this point, so we

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Speaker 1: when the company started, we were basically at the halfway

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Speaker 1: point of the Boston Marathon in Wellesley, and a few

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Speaker 1: years ago we moved the office and opened our first

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Speaker 1: retail store down by the finish line in the back

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Speaker 1: bay on Newberry Street. So now we're sort of downtown.

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Speaker 1: Although right now, as is everybody, we're all working from

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Speaker 1: home remotely doing the best we can there. But this

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Speaker 1: will pass.

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Speaker 3: This will pass, And what's the meaning behind the name

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Speaker 3: of Tracksmith?

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Speaker 1: The naming and sort of brand identity process was actually

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Speaker 1: quite involved We had a couple parameters for the name.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't so much what it stood for as much

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Speaker 1: as sort of what it like, sort of what kind

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Speaker 1: of feelings or thoughts it sort of evoked. We definitely

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Speaker 1: wanted a name that sounded, you know, easy, easy to say,

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Speaker 1: and used sort of normal letters, so we didn't want

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Speaker 1: the sort of fancy things that brands were doing back then.

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Speaker 1: Track and Smith when it came together, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of felt right. Track obviously, you know, one one element

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Speaker 1: of running sort of signifies you know, sort of I

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Speaker 1: don't know, when you go to the track, that's sort

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Speaker 1: of just different thing going for a run, right, It's

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Speaker 1: like you like get get butterflies every time you step

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Speaker 1: on the track. So there's something there that we liked.

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Speaker 1: And then sort of Smith as a to sort of

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Speaker 1: signify sort of you know, handcrafted and a great deal

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Speaker 1: of care and craftsmanship that goes into it. And you know,

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Speaker 1: oddly we were actually Boston Supply Company for several weeks.

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Speaker 1: We were living with that name and that was going

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Speaker 1: to be the name, and you know, near the end

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Speaker 1: we sort of switched to switch to Tracksmith and I'm

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Speaker 1: happy we did.

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Speaker 3: I dig it. I think on your website it's an

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Speaker 3: independent running company that celebrates the competitive spirit exactly perfect. Well,

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Speaker 3: obviously you don't form an independent running company that celebrates

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Speaker 3: the competitive spirit out of nowhere. So why don't we

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Speaker 3: dig into your history, your past. Talk to me about

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Speaker 3: what life was like growing up for you and what

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Speaker 3: running was like for you growing up. I grew up

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Speaker 3: in Pittsburgh, and I was very into sports. My family

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Speaker 3: was very into sports. It wasn't running at first for me.

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Speaker 3: I base was my first love, and then basketball was

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Speaker 3: sort of my second love and running running came third.

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Speaker 3: So growing up, I played baseball and basketball all the

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Speaker 3: time year round and really discovered running. I mean it

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Speaker 3: was one of those things where, you know, I was

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Speaker 3: usually the fastest one on my team in those other sports,

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Speaker 3: which is a story that a lot of runners, you know,

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Speaker 3: fall into. I was listening to your episode with Dez yesterday,

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Speaker 3: and you know, she was a soccer player turned turned

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Speaker 3: to running. You know, it's a similar story.

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Speaker 1: I I I realized I was, you know, was faster

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Speaker 1: than most of the kids, and that led me to

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Speaker 1: you know, run. A couple of races here and there,

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Speaker 1: and you know by high school. I still played basketball

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Speaker 1: all through high school, all four years, but I ran

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Speaker 1: cross country in the fall and track in the spring.

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Speaker 1: I played baseball even my freshman year of high school.

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Speaker 1: So it really came a little bit later for me.

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Speaker 1: You know, my parents weren't runners. They were you know,

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Speaker 1: they played other sports, and so it wasn't something I

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Speaker 1: grew up around, but certainly a very comp hetitive and

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Speaker 1: athletic family background. And you know, in Pittsburgh, sports kind

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Speaker 1: of dominate the culture and in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: it's a very, uh, sports heavy town with great history

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Speaker 1: and tradition and great teams throughout the years, and so

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Speaker 1: you kind of grow up around that. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: escape that when you grow up in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 3: So when you realize that running was your thing, did

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Speaker 3: you know at that point that you were going to

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Speaker 3: head and do that in college?

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Speaker 1: Not right away. It took a little while to you know,

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Speaker 1: really understand that that side of of it again. Growing up,

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Speaker 1: like I dreamed of being a Major League Baseball player

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Speaker 1: and then you know NBA and and so you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought that's what I would do in college, and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't really until I guess my junior year of

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Speaker 1: high school that I, you know, realized that running in

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Speaker 1: college was definitely a possibility. And at the time I

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Speaker 1: had the you know, had the times to you know,

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Speaker 1: get some interest from colleges and coaches across the country.

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Speaker 1: And so, yeah, it wasn't something I knew right away,

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Speaker 1: but certainly by you know, my junior year of high school,

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Speaker 1: I realized that was certainly a path that I I

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Speaker 1: was probably headed down.

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Speaker 3: So where were you off to college?

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Speaker 1: I went to Yale.

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Speaker 3: Talk to me about what life was like at Yale.

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Speaker 1: For you I mean, it was great overall. My experience,

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Speaker 1: you know, in hindsight was amazing, and I feel very

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Speaker 1: fortunate that I had that opportunity. But I would be

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Speaker 1: lying if I said it wasn't a little bit of

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Speaker 1: culture shock when I when I first went there. In

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Speaker 1: what way, I don't know. I just you know, growing up,

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Speaker 1: I didn't the IVY League education, Ivy League schools. It

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Speaker 1: just wasn't something that I knew about. It's not something

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Speaker 1: that we you know, talked about. It really wasn't until

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Speaker 1: you know, again, junior year, I guess is when you know,

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Speaker 1: I got a letter from you know, Penn and from

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Speaker 1: Yale and from Harvard and from the coaches that I

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Speaker 1: even considered a school like that. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: grew up in a you know, pretty modest, you know,

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh suburb, and you know, my my dad uh worked

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Speaker 1: in the steel steel mills until they closed down in Pittsburgh,

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Speaker 1: and my mom's whole side of the family worked in coal.

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Speaker 1: And you know, just culturally that Ivy League education just

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Speaker 1: wasn't part of our our thinking and our world. So

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Speaker 1: there is certainly a little bit of of culture shock there.

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Speaker 1: And you know, but again, like the opportunity to go

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Speaker 1: to a school like that and to meet people that

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Speaker 1: I met who are now my closest friends, and certainly

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Speaker 1: being part of a team, I think, is you know

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Speaker 1: something that made that experience a lot easier for me.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, cross country and track teams are

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Speaker 1: very unique in their closeness and their culture and all

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Speaker 1: of those things, and you know that certainly was something

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Speaker 1: that made that experience easier for me. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I if I didn't have that experience, I probably

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Speaker 1: would have been quite lost in a in a place

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Speaker 1: like that. But I found my rhythm and you know,

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Speaker 1: and friends and had sports. You know, in college, you're

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Speaker 1: competing all three seasons, you know, cross country and then

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Speaker 1: indoor track and outdoor track, so you know you're pretty

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Speaker 1: much embedded with with that group of people year round.

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Speaker 1: So but yeah, it was a great, great experience. Though.

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Speaker 3: Did you have a favorite distance in college?

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Speaker 1: I really loved the steeplechase, which is kind of an

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Speaker 1: obscure track event. It's three thousand meters, so just under

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Speaker 1: two miles, but you jump over hurdles every lap, and

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Speaker 1: one of them has a water pit after it, so

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Speaker 1: you know you're jumping basically off of a large hurdle

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Speaker 1: and into a water pit. So it's one of the

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Speaker 1: more unique running events in track and field. But that

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Speaker 1: was my favorite event. But I really loved the middle distances.

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Speaker 1: So I ran the fifteen hundred and the mile and

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Speaker 1: the five k and occasionally would drop down to an

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Speaker 1: eight hundred, but you know, pretty squarely in that middle

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Speaker 1: distance category.

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Speaker 3: And what are you studying when you're at Eale?

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Speaker 1: So I was pre med for about I don't know,

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Speaker 1: six weeks, nine weeks, as as many people are, and

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Speaker 1: I ultimately realized that wasn't what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: I think is just one of those things. You know.

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Speaker 1: I had a grandmother who every time I saw her,

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Speaker 1: which was a few times a year, told me I

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Speaker 1: was going to be a doctor or a lawyer when

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Speaker 1: I grew up, and so I just, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I was, Okay, i'll be a doctor. Let's see what

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Speaker 1: pre med is like. And but yeah, that wasn't for me.

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Speaker 1: But I actually, really I've always liked sort of physiology

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Speaker 1: and biology, and so I stayed sort of in that

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Speaker 1: general area. My majors a mouthfuls behavioral neuroscience, but it

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Speaker 1: was a combination of sort of the biology and psychology

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Speaker 1: departments and disciplines. And I kind of went through college thinking, I,

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Speaker 1: you know, wanted to do research around physiology, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a dream job. When I was a sophomore in college,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, I go work at like Gatorade or

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Speaker 1: you know, something like that. So that's kind of where

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Speaker 1: I my path started down.

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Speaker 3: It's funny because I feel as though, when you're growing up,

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Speaker 3: you have all of these ideas of things that you

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Speaker 3: want to do, and you go to college and you're

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Speaker 3: supposed to have it all together, right, Like you're supposed

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Speaker 3: to know exactly what it is that you want to

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Speaker 3: do with your life and exactly where you're going to

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Speaker 3: go with it. But then you get older and you

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Speaker 3: think to yourself, wow, there are so many things that

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Speaker 3: could have been useful to have in this quest for

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Speaker 3: what it is that I really want to do.

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Speaker 1: I know that's very true. And you know, sometimes in

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Speaker 1: hindsight you realize you did have some of those moments

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Speaker 1: or were exposed to those things, but at the time

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Speaker 1: you just weren't able to put the dots together.

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Speaker 3: So when you're at school, do you think I want

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Speaker 3: to take this running thing past New Haven, Connecticut? Or

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Speaker 3: do you think to yourself, all right, I'm ready to

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Speaker 3: get into the business world.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean I wanted to. I wanted to go

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Speaker 1: to the Olympics. I wanted to keep running. I wanted to.

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Speaker 1: I'm to a fault and extremely competitive. I have a

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Speaker 1: very competitive personality, and yeah, I want I really wanted to,

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Speaker 1: and I just you know, I wasn't good enough to

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Speaker 1: do that. But yeah, no, I absolutely I viewed in

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Speaker 1: a way, sort of viewed college as a stepping stone

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Speaker 1: to that next step athletically, and you know, and again,

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Speaker 1: looking back on it, I probably should have spent a

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Speaker 1: little bit more time thinking about career decisions and choices,

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Speaker 1: because I certainly was ill prepared when I when I graduated.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I didn't think about the business side

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Speaker 1: of things for a long time. But I did have

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, my mom was an entrepreneur. She

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Speaker 1: owned a store. She was an interior designer. She owned

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Speaker 1: a store, ran a store for a while, sort of

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Speaker 1: interior decorations, country store sort of place, and then became

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Speaker 1: a you know, sort of started doing interior design on

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Speaker 1: her own with her own clients and stuff, and so

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Speaker 1: I sort of was exposed to that. And my brother,

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Speaker 1: who's two years older than me, is you know, an

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Speaker 1: amazing craftsmen. He's lives in Asheville and makes furniture and

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Speaker 1: you know, guitars and is an absolute brilliant builder of

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Speaker 1: things out of wood. Amazing. I have none of those

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Speaker 1: skills that they had, but I certainly was sort of

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Speaker 1: exposed to that and always felt quite entrepreneurial. I just

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Speaker 1: didn't really know what that meant or what to do

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Speaker 1: or how to do it. So, but yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: not sort of ready for the business world right away.

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Speaker 3: Was there a particular moment or event that made you

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Speaker 3: come to terms with this idea that you weren't going

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Speaker 3: to be able to be that falls to the wall

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Speaker 3: all in athlete that you had hoped to after college.

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Speaker 1: No, it wasn't like a particular moment. I think it

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Speaker 1: was just like a gradual realization that that wasn't you know,

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Speaker 1: wasn't in the cards for me. And I think in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways it took me a long time

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Speaker 1: to transfer my mindset from that to business. But I

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Speaker 1: think ultimately that's sort of what you know has helped

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Speaker 1: start and build and get Tracksmith off the ground is

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Speaker 1: I've just sort of re focused those energies and those

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Speaker 1: desires into something else. But it did take me a

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Speaker 1: while to sort of like to do that and come

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Speaker 1: to grips with it. And you know, I sort of

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Speaker 1: floundered for a while after college in terms of what

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Speaker 1: I was going to do professionally, and it took me

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Speaker 1: a while to make that transition.

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Speaker 3: So we graduate from Yale and we're moving on to

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Speaker 3: the next thing, and what's the next thing?

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Speaker 1: So my first this is one of my favorite favorite stories.

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Speaker 1: My first job out of college was at IMG, which

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Speaker 1: is the big sports management marketing firm started by Mark McCormick. So,

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Speaker 1: my senior year of college, most of my friends had

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Speaker 1: had their shit together. They were going to Wall Street

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Speaker 1: or consulting firms, or you know, law school or into

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Speaker 1: the government. And I had no idea. I had no

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Speaker 1: job lined up. And Mark McCormick was coming to school too.

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Speaker 1: I think he went to Yale Law School. She was

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Speaker 1: an alumni, and he was coming to get a talk,

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Speaker 1: which I went to. And then afterwards they would often

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Speaker 1: when they would bring a speaker to campus sort of

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Speaker 1: have these smaller, more informal settings in one of the

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Speaker 1: residential colleges, and so I went there after the main talk,

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Speaker 1: and you know, spent another hour there. He was just

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Speaker 1: telling these, you know, amazing stories about how he got

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Speaker 1: involved in sports and working as an agent and working

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Speaker 1: with some of the you know, best athletes in the

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Speaker 1: world and working with these you know, huge fortune five

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Speaker 1: hundred brands, and I was just fascinated, and I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this makes sense to me. This is something I can

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Speaker 1: wrap my head around. So, you know, the talk ended,

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Speaker 1: I introduced myself and said thank you and you know whatever,

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Speaker 1: and I left and I went back and that night

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Speaker 1: I wrote a letter to him, and I just sort

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Speaker 1: of guessed what hotel he would be at, because there

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Speaker 1: were really only two on campus back then. And the

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Speaker 1: next morning I went and dropped off a letter at

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Speaker 1: the front desk of the hotel. This is nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 1: I think or five, basically just saying, you know, I

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Speaker 1: loved your talk, I would love to work in sports industry,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of those sort of desperate college letters.

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Speaker 1: And dropped it off and went home and thought nothing

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Speaker 1: of it. And two weeks later went to my mailbox

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Speaker 1: and I had a letter back from him that said,

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Speaker 1: you know, thank you for your letter. And his son

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Speaker 1: at the time was running sort of the interactive division

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Speaker 1: of the group up in Boston, and so he had

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Speaker 1: arranged for me to drive up to Boston and have

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Speaker 1: an interview. And that's how I got my first job

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Speaker 1: out of college.

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Speaker 3: Was that the longest two week period of your life?

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Speaker 1: Like, just honestly, I actually know because I thought there

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Speaker 1: is zero chance that I'm going to hear back from him.

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Speaker 1: So I just sort of went about my you know, day,

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Speaker 1: panicking what I was going to do, and graduation rolled around.

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Speaker 3: I think that that's such a good lesson though, right

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Speaker 3: about nothing happens if you don't try, Like that wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have happened if you didn't put yourself out there and

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Speaker 3: go for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very true.

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Speaker 3: It's really special. Okay, So you go up for the interview.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I go, I go interview, I get the job,

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Speaker 1: I graduate from college, I move up to Boston, and

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm in heaven thinking I'm working at this you know,

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Speaker 1: huge sports management firm, and I was involved. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was obviously super young, and I didn't really do

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Speaker 1: anything important, but I was exposed to a lot of

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Speaker 1: really interesting things at the time, you know, that group

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Speaker 1: that I was working and we were sort of like

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Speaker 1: we were building websites for you know, Manchester United and

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Speaker 1: the New England Patriots, and we were working with brands

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Speaker 1: like you know, Ford that had all of this you know,

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Speaker 1: advertising budget, but you know, the Internet at the time

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Speaker 1: was still a little bit of the wild wild West

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Speaker 1: on the on the sports side of things, and so

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Speaker 1: working with sort of those those brands to to figure

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Speaker 1: that out, and so it was just great exposure and

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed it, and enjoyed it so much that

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Speaker 1: after about a year I decided to leave to try

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Speaker 1: to start my own company with two other guys in

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Speaker 1: sort of the the web services space. So you know,

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Speaker 1: in hindsight, I really wish I would have stuck that

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Speaker 1: out and I would have learned a lot more. But

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Speaker 1: I sort of dove right into my first attempt at

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Speaker 1: a startup, which did not really succeed.

401
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Speaker 3: What does did not really succeed? Really mean?

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Speaker 1: Actually, I mean, yeah, it's all it's all relative because

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Speaker 1: the time, you know, then versus now, I mean it

404
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Speaker 1: was four of us, three of us and then four

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Speaker 1: of us. We were you know, building websites and web

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Speaker 1: apps and you know, for clients. And you know, wasn't

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Speaker 1: we were using you know, our own money. I wasn't

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Speaker 1: pitching in. It was other people. But it wasn't you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't funded by anybody. It was it was sort

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Speaker 1: of a lifestyle business, and you know, it didn't really

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Speaker 1: take off. But one of the guys, sort of the

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Speaker 1: main guy behind it, actually ran the business for many

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Speaker 1: many years sort of as a as a lifestyle business.

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Speaker 1: He had it just became basically an agency and he

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Speaker 1: had some great clients and was able to make that work.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't ever going to be you know, something

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Speaker 1: much bigger. And so yeah, so I I eventually sort

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Speaker 1: of left.

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Speaker 3: How do you pick yourself up from that?

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Speaker 1: I didn't really at first, I really panicked. I went

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Speaker 1: through a phase where, you know, again a lot of

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Speaker 1: my friends at this point, you know, two or three

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Speaker 1: years out of college, were you know, quite successful and

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Speaker 1: had been working in good jobs and you know, and

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Speaker 1: and so I really didn't know what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: And I thought finance maybe because that's what a lot

427
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Speaker 1: of people were doing. I thought maybe I should go

428
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Speaker 1: get an MBA. But you know, who's going to offer

429
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Speaker 1: admissions to someone with with my two years of post

430
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Speaker 1: college experience and an MBA program? And so I worked

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Speaker 1: in finance. I somehow got a job in finance for

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Speaker 1: a period of time, and you know, it definitely wasn't

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Speaker 1: for me. And then ultimately I did. I did get

434
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Speaker 1: into Babson's NBA program and I started that program, but

435
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Speaker 1: I didn't finish because my wife got into law school

436
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 1: at Georgetown, and you know, sort of a hit agreed

437
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: if she got in there that we would move down there.

438
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,959
Speaker 1: I was doing just to go back to the Babson thing.

439
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 1: It's kind of a maybe relevant. I applied to the

440
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: full time MBA program and was accepted, and once I

441
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: was in, I emailed the track and cross country coach

442
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: and I just said, hey, I'm going to be a

443
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: student here. I would love to help out, volunteer my

444
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: time and help out with the program if you need

445
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: any help. And he said, yeah, that'd be great. Come

446
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: to campus, let's meet have a coffee. So I met,

447
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: and you know, we hit it off, and I was

448
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: going to sort of help out around my schedule. And

449
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: about a month before, month and a half before school started,

450
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: he called me and said, you know, I just want

451
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 1: to let you know I resigned today. I got another

452
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 1: job at another college. I think you should apply for

453
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: the Babson job. And I was like, WHOA like college coach,

454
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: That's an amazing opportunity. And so I went in and

455
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 1: met with the athletic director and you know, interviewed and

456
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: was offered that job. And so Babson was great. They

457
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: let me switch to the part time program. So I

458
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: coached and was doing my part time MBA and so

459
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: that's why, you know, it was not a two year plan.

460
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: It was going to take me a little bit more

461
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: than that. And so when my wife got into law

462
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: school at Georgetown, you know, we we decided to move

463
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: down there, and then that sort of you know, put

464
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,719
Speaker 1: me on a slightly a slightly different path and really

465
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: got me into sort of I think my second uh

466
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: sort of you know, entrepreneurial opportunity or or it wasn't

467
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: really a business, it was more of a project. But

468
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: I I yeah, that put me on a new path.

469
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 3: What would you say it is about your personality that

470
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: caters to being an entrepreneur.

471
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I mean part of it, like

472
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: I said, there was so there's a little bit of

473
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: it from you know, at the time I was a kid.

474
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: I wasn't putting these pieces together. It's only in hindsight

475
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: that I realized sort of how impactful growing up in

476
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: that period for me was. When you know, your dad

477
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,719
Speaker 1: loses a job and you know, bounces around for a while,

478
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: and now being a father, like I can only imagine

479
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: what that was like for him. As again, as a kid,

480
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't really paying attention to it, but they made

481
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: it work. And I do feel like the one thing,

482
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: the one trait that I think has helped me quite

483
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: a bit is I always think like the worst case

484
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: scenario is not that bad, right, Like the worst case

485
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: scenario of something fails is okay, you go back and

486
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: you sort of pick yourself up and you figure it out,

487
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: and you know, this isn't a thing. Like you know,

488
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: all my families have a ton of money, and so

489
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: that a lot of times entrepreneurs have that safety net

490
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: of you know, family wealth, and that's not a knock.

491
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: Just some people were in that in that situation where

492
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: they have that. I didn't have that, But what I

493
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: had was this realization that like, bad is not that bad.

494
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: You know, bad is okay, working a couple of jobs

495
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 1: and figuring things out and ultimately feeling confident that that

496
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: you will figure it out. That's certainly, I think is

497
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,719
Speaker 1: one of the one of the biggest things is like

498
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: if you if you feel like you have a safety net,

499
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 1: and that can take a lot of different forms. I

500
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: think taking risks becomes a lot easier, and certainly you

501
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: like want to take risks at the right time, and

502
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: they want to be calculated. And you know, I've taken

503
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: some early in my career where I didn't know what

504
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: I was doing, and you know, tracksmith to me felt

505
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: like a super calculated and timely and the right risk

506
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: to take. But that's the one thing, just feeling like, Okay,

507
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: the worst case is it doesn't it doesn't work out,

508
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: and then you go and you figure out figure it out.

509
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 3: So so what's the next risk you take in your career.

510
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a risk per se,

511
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: but when I when I when we moved to d C,

512
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: I I did a project where I basically spent eleven

513
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: weeks at eleven of the top cross country programs NCAA

514
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: program So I was at you know, Notre Dame and

515
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: Colorado and Portland and Georgetown and you know, all these

516
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 1: amazing schools, and I basically documented the lifestyle of the

517
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: athletes on the team. So this was you know, early

518
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: days of online you know, blogging, and I was taking

519
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: photos and writing and doing video sort of all by myself.

520
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: I just traveled, you know, week to week, went to

521
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: a new school and lived with athletes on the team,

522
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: and you know, it was a very very very very

523
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: very niche audience that I was I was looking for.

524
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: But for those people who were really into the sport

525
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: of running and specifically cross country, there was nothing like it,

526
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: and so I learned a lot from that experience. I

527
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: learned a lot about storytelling and what people were really

528
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: interested in, and you know, things that I thought that

529
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: might be the most interesting thing turned out not to be.

530
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 1: And so it was just a really good experience and

531
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: that led that project then led to another one where

532
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: I was following a lot of the top Kenyan marathoners,

533
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: lived with them in ten Kenya for a while, and

534
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: then in Boulder where they had a training camp, and

535
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: then you know, they went to race Chicago and New

536
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: York and all over the world, and so sort of

537
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: you know, those those projects and one kind of led

538
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: to another and then another, and ultimately that led to

539
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: an opportunity to go work at Puma in about two

540
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: thousand and seven or eight, and so that you know,

541
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: like I said, it wasn't a business, it wasn't a company.

542
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: It was just a series of projects that were very

543
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial driven and in the beginning solo efforts, and then

544
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: as they progressed, I was able to bring in some

545
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: other people to help.

546
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 3: But how did it feel to be around all of

547
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 3: those athletes in a different capacity, Like did you feel

548
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: as though you had a little bit of fomo. Were

549
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: you kind of scratching an itch? And at times was

550
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: it difficult for you to be back in the scene

551
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: but not actually in the scene.

552
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: You know, at the time, I don't think so. I

553
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: think I was like, I think I was okay with that.

554
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: You know, I was still running a lot, and I

555
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: looked at it more as that opportunity, which you know,

556
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: like being around athletes of that caliber and being able

557
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: to go out on an easy run with them or

558
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: even try to, you know, do a workout and you know,

559
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: get destroyed, you know, especially like with the Kenyan athletes,

560
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: having that experience to go to Aten Kenya and you know,

561
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: go to their training and you know, driving the car

562
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: with the coach and handing out water bottles and all that.

563
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it was. It was fascinating and amazing, and

564
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: so no, I didn't. I actually felt like in a

565
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: way I was in it, you know, I was. I

566
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: was in it in a different way. But it wasn't

567
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: like fear of missing out. It wasn't on the outside.

568
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 1: I was on the inside, and I you know, it

569
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: was amazing opportunity and a great experience and it was

570
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: it was really fun.

571
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,479
Speaker 3: So I mean it sounds like you have a pretty

572
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: cool gig, and is it this gig that inspires you

573
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 3: to start thinking about what would become Tracksmith.

574
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely there were you know, Tracksmith was never this

575
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: sort of singular light bulb moment. It was an accumulation

576
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: of sort of all of these experiences and ideas and

577
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: being involved in the sport in so many different capacities,

578
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: So being an athlete, you know, being a participant, working

579
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: in the industry, you know, documenting, you know, the top athletes,

580
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: being exposed to the top athletes, you know, all of

581
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: that sort of led to it. But yeah, certainly, at

582
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: least like the storytelling side of it was definitely sort

583
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: of honed during that period. And you know, after that,

584
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: like I said, I ended up working at Puma for

585
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: a while, which was much more of let's say, like

586
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: the corporate and business side of it, and so there

587
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: were just a lot of different pieces that ultimately came together.

588
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, I did start thinking about it then more seriously.

589
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: But at the time, you know, it wasn't it wasn't

590
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: concrete in my mind. It wasn't an apparel brand. It

591
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: wasn't you know, obviously called Tracksmith. It was just this

592
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: idea that I wanted to do something in running to

593
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: elevate the sport, to you know, bring the sport. It

594
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: was really around like the presentation of the sport, you know,

595
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: and how how can that be improved? How can we

596
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: draw more people into the sport as fans and as

597
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: athletes and as participants, And so that definitely was sort

598
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: of a crucial part of the road to Tracksmith.

599
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love

600
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: to four Sigmatic, a wellness company that makeses shrooms and

601
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: a davigens with everything from coffee to protein powder and

602
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: edible skincare. Once you try their products, it'll be hard

603
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: to remember.

604
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 3: Life without them.

605
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: Personally, I am hooked hooked hooked on their peanut butter

606
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 2: protein powder and also their mushroom ground coffee with lines Maine.

607
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: It's got chaka mushrooms in there, which support overall wellness

608
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: and your immune system, and I adore how it helps

609
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 2: me think and feel productive without jitters or crash. Now

610
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: on the Lion's main note, it can be your brain's BFF,

611
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: supporting focus, productivity, and creativity during even my busiest of dates.

612
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: And because their mushroom coffee is certified, organic, gmo free, vegan,

613
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: gluten free, and Whole thirty approved. It fits into everyone's lifestyle.

614
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: One thing that's important to note, I get this message often.

615
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: Does it taste like mushrooms? Absolutely not.

616
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: In fact, it tastes better than the other artisan coffee

617
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: that I typically keep in my cabinet if we're being

618
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 3: real here.

619
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: Of course, they have an awesome deal for the hurdle audience.

620
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: Just head on over to four sigmatic dot.

621
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 3: Com slash hurdle or enter code hurdle at checkout that is, oh,

622
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 3: you are s I G M A T I C

623
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: dot com slash hurdle to get fifteen percent off your

624
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: order today. And I think it is pretty distinct the

625
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: storytelling that Tracksmith does today. I know you guys have

626
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 3: the journal and as a journalist who often has conversations

627
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 3: with you know, big brands about how they can be

628
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: doing storytelling and smart and effective ways, I look to

629
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 3: the kind of content and the stories that you guys

630
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 3: are telling and I am floored from you know, the

631
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 3: stories you have leading into the Olympic trials to how

632
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 3: runners are handling the coronavirus pandemic right now, and it

633
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 3: just it's extensive there, and I think that's really special.

634
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's definitely something we think about a

635
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: lot and spend a lot of time on, and we

636
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,239
Speaker 1: have you know, great people on the team that are

637
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: able to sort of bring those things to life, you know,

638
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: from the photography to the writing. You know, really like

639
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you have product and

640
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: then you sort of have photos and words and that

641
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: that is sort of, you know, your brand. And so

642
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: that's just something that we've you know, over invested in

643
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and you know, just just

644
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: takes very very seriously.

645
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: So from the get go, you knew that you had

646
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 3: a passion for running, you knew that you wanted to

647
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 3: bring something to life. You had experience at Puma, So

648
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 3: did you think, all right, it's going to be a

649
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 3: clothing brand or where we headed?

650
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: That took a little while. So I really was looking

651
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: at the industry as a whole, you know, apparel, footwear, accessories.

652
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: I was looking at media and technology events, you know,

653
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: I was looking at sort of everything that was out there,

654
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: and the thing that really stuck out through that process

655
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: was men's running apparel. You know, having had the experience

656
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: at a at a big brand and having friends that

657
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 1: worked at the other brands, it was very clear that

658
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: footwear dominated, you know, the landscape. Take out lou Lemon

659
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: and under Armour and the rest of the sort of

660
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: like and even those two brands aren't true running brands.

661
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: The true running brands all started with footwear, and footwear

662
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: is king. And then because of lou Lemon and Athleta

663
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: and some other brands, you know, women's apparel started to

664
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: become more competitive and so internal resources were starting to

665
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: be dedicated more to that area, and then you had

666
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: sort of men's apparel at the bottom. It was getting

667
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: the least amount of resources and attention. And you know,

668
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: if you walked into a running store or sporting good

669
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: store in two thousand and six or seven or eight

670
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: or nine or ten, I mean literally everything looked exactly

671
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 1: the same. It was the same color palette each season.

672
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: You know, they were all using the same color trend forecasting.

673
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: So you all had orange tech tees one season and

674
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: then yellow tech tees the next season, and there was

675
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: not a lot of differentiation that went into the product.

676
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: And so that became the clear leader to me as

677
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: a place where we could come in and create something

678
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: very distinct from what was on the market in a

679
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: you know, relatively short period of time to establish the

680
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: brand and its ethos and its identity, you know, but

681
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: the vision was always much much broader than you know,

682
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: just men's apparel. And when we launched the brand in

683
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: fall of twenty fourteen, you know, we had already been

684
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: working on the women's first women's collection as well, so

685
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: it was you know, it wasn't even something we're really like,

686
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: we're a men's brand. It was always we are a

687
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: running brand. You know, it's just men's apparel, limited resources,

688
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: you know, at that point, three four people on the

689
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: team to get that done. We just focused on that,

690
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, launched the brand, established the brand, and have

691
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: slowly sort of expanded not just the product offering, but

692
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, the storytelling and the events and everything else

693
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: that we that we do. So it didn't start out

694
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: as apparel, but that became the pretty early became the

695
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: opportunity that I that I saw.

696
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 3: I think it's really impressive to be able to really

697
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 3: identify a need and home in on exactly who it

698
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 3: is that you are. Even in you know, establishing a

699
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: personal brand, you think, okay, well, if you're trying to

700
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 3: serve everyone, then you're not really serving anyone. So for

701
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 3: you guys to come to this conclusion, or for you

702
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 3: personally to come to this conclusion that, you know what,

703
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 3: I want to be a brand for runners and beyond that, like,

704
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to make the next great sneaker. I'm

705
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 3: just trying to give you the stuff that you need

706
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 3: to wear to get out there and perform your best.

707
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some of it is by accident and some

708
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: of it by design, you know, And because you're right, like,

709
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: especially in the beginning, I think it's really hard to

710
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: be for everyone and everything. Right, that's just like a

711
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: that's a I mean to do that, you have to

712
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: you have to strip away I think the things that

713
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: make you really unique and differentiated, because to appeal to everyone,

714
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: you sort of have to go to the lowest common denominator.

715
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: So we you know, we we certainly were very specific

716
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: and considered with the brand and you know who we

717
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: were for and communicating with and supporting, and you know,

718
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: that's certainly has evolved over five and a half years.

719
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: But I went into it with that very and my

720
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: co founder very conscious decision of like listen, in the beginning.

721
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: We're not going to be for everyone, and there are

722
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 1: people who are not going to like what we're doing,

723
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: but the vision we believe in, and over time we

724
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: think that this is you know, this is this is

725
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: you know, I mean this sounds crazy, but like we

726
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: really want to change the sport and the industry and

727
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: the way people think about it and the way it's perceived.

728
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: And so we're going to present it in a way

729
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: that that we really believe in and over time, you know,

730
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: if we're successful and lucky, that will work, you know.

731
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: So that that's how we approached it from the beginning.

732
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 3: What is it that you think that you want to change?

733
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: So when I was a kid, running was a sport, right,

734
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: it was covered. You could open a Sports illustrated you know,

735
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: you could read a Runner's World magazine or Running Times,

736
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: and it was about the sport and the athletes. And

737
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: over time that sort of went away. And and there's

738
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: reasons for that, and they're not right or wrong, but

739
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 1: you sort of had. As the brands that supported that grew,

740
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: they you know, had their at one end of the spectrum.

741
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: They always wanted athletes who could make Olympics and win medals, right,

742
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: because everybody wants the best athlete associated with their brand.

743
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: But then they also as they were growing, they realized, Okay,

744
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: runners know who we are. Core runners know who we are.

745
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: We need to get the people who are new to running.

746
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: We need to go to that, you know, to the

747
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 1: far other end of the spec drum. And it left

748
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: this huge void in the middle of people who were

749
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: passionate about running. They were committed to running, they self

750
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: identified as runners, they were out there training and wanting

751
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: to get faster. We really wanted to sort of focus on,

752
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, that that part of the that part of

753
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: running and that part of the sport and not shy

754
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: away from competition and not shy away from you know, achievement.

755
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: Those are not bad things to celebrate, but they they

756
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 1: became sort of like, you know, is that is that

757
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: too aggressive as a brand to sort of talk about

758
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 1: those things. And so that's really like just getting back

759
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: to that, like, let's celebrate the sport for for what

760
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: it is. You know, it's it's you can you can

761
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: be a runner, you can be competitive and not be

762
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: the best, but still be interested in that. And you know,

763
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: is the sport went away and I like to think

764
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: like it really only came out every four years during

765
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: the Olympics, that's when running sort of takes center stage,

766
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: and in the off years it really if you were

767
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: a general sports fan, you knew nothing about the sport,

768
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: and so it's a very we're very small and we're

769
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: doing you know, very yeah, it's it's we have very

770
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: little impact right now as a brand, but we the

771
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: way we photograph running, the way we talk about running,

772
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: the way we activate events around running, you know, those

773
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: are the things that we want to sort of elevate

774
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: and bring a bit back there, put a bit more

775
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: time and effort into those things so people can really

776
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: fall in love with running. And if you fall in

777
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 1: love with running, you're going to start following it. You're

778
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: going to be interested in what's going on. And then

779
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 1: there's a whole slew of things that the sort of

780
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: very professional, elite side of the sport, in the way

781
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: that you know, track meets are run, TV broadcasts are presented.

782
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: It's it's horrible, it's the it's the worst sport in

783
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: the world to try to be a fan of the

784
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: way that it's organized at a global level, and so

785
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: that's not anything we're interested in now. But it's certainly

786
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: something to think about for the future.

787
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 3: It's almost as if you're trying to create clothing that's

788
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 3: so good that you can get back to the focus

789
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 3: of being on the athlete instead of being on what

790
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 3: everybody's wearing and maybe these days what people are wearing

791
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 3: specifically on their feet.

792
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we I mean, it's it's never been about

793
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,919
Speaker 1: the shoes or the clothing, right, It's always been about

794
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: the individual. I mean, you know, running is a very

795
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: very intrinsic pursuit. It is just by nature. Although teams

796
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 1: and clubs are amazing and they add to it, at

797
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's sort of you versus

798
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: yourself or you versus the clock. It's not a team

799
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: sport and you know the way we think about team

800
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 1: sports or ball sports, and so it does make it

801
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: a very individual pursuit. And that's that's who ultimately is

802
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: driving you know, driving yourself forward. Is you?

803
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 3: So how do you drive yourself and your idea forward

804
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 3: into being a cohesive brand?

805
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 1: I mean great people, my co founder you know, and

806
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 1: I you know, in the early days just really we're

807
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,959
Speaker 1: at our you know, like just one of those times

808
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: where everything was like really working well, and I think

809
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: we were able to sort of get to a great

810
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: place and then as more people have come in the

811
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: company be able to you know, refine and improve and

812
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: expand on that. And you know, it's it's teams are hard,

813
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: Like teams in sports. I've been you know, on teams

814
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: my entire life, and like that part seems easy, but

815
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: teams and companies are a lot harder. And but I've

816
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: enjoyed that challenge of sort of building you know, the

817
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: team attracts with and we're still, you know, relatively small,

818
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: but we've grown a lot over the last two years,

819
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: and so that's been a new and fun challenge for me.

820
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just it's been it's been great people

821
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: and you know, great execution by by those people.

822
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: What was it like for you to shift from direct

823
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 3: to consumer model to then opening up in Boston as

824
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: a flagship.

825
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: It was natural, It wasn't that difficult. We were never

826
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: a DTC brand that you know, said we'll never do retail.

827
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: Retail is dead, Retails the enemy, you know, that certainly

828
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: was the mantra of a lot of the brands that

829
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: led the way for the direct to consumer space. But

830
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: running has always been a grassroots you know, shaking hands

831
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: sport and industry, and so starting online is just the

832
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: reality is it's the easiest, quickest, and least expensive way

833
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: to establish a brand these days. You know, it's expensive

834
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: to open retail stores and build community physically in a

835
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: single location. And so we always knew we would open stores.

836
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: We always knew we would have community, we would do

837
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: run clubs, we would you know, come to the major marathons.

838
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: It was just more a matter of when that timing

839
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: felt right. And you know, we've taken a pretty conservative

840
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: approach to that. And so yeah, opening the store was

841
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: you know, challenging for sure, but it felt a very

842
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: now victual extension of what we had always planned.

843
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 3: I'm curious, early on, as you know, you're trying to

844
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 3: build not only this company but a bit of a movement,

845
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 3: what is it that keeps you going and what are

846
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 3: you using as benchmarks for success, because early on, I

847
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 3: mean those can be a little bit all over the place.

848
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: They're definitely all over the place. I mean benchmarks were

849
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: just some objective and some subjective. I mean, we were growing, right,

850
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: so you can obviously that's one nice thing about you know,

851
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: having the data we have as leaders these days at

852
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 1: companies is we can see the web traffic, we can

853
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: see the revenue, we can see those things, and so

854
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: objectively we could see that. Subjectively we were hearing very

855
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: positive things, you know, and as an online brand in

856
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 1: the beginning, that is one thing that I really struggled

857
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: with was, you know, you can't interact with your customer.

858
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: You can't you know, having worked in a physical retail

859
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: environment where you could sit in a store and see

860
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: how people walk through the store and what they pick

861
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: up and what they talk about and what questions they

862
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: asked to go to an online environment where you you know,

863
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: you're just seeing you know, oh, someone's on the website,

864
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 1: someone bought something, But you can't sort of interrupt that

865
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 1: process and ask them a question, or you're not there

866
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: for them to ask you a question. So you know,

867
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: that was certainly a bit of a challenge early on

868
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: just to sort of figure that out. But subjectively we were,

869
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: you know, hearing from people that you know, just very

870
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 1: positive feedback. And so running certainly has a nuance to

871
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: it in that, you know, people need to believe in

872
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: the product, in the brand. There's sort of this authenticity

873
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: and credibility component that no brand and running has ever

874
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: succeeded sort of from the outside in. They've always started

875
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: from the inside and gone out. And what I mean

876
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: by that is they've started with core runners, people who

877
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: who know it and who have been running for a

878
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: long time, and you you just have to build you know,

879
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: credibility with that with that customer base. So we were,

880
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: like I said, very conservative and deliberate, and you know,

881
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: we certainly didn't do everything right and it never went

882
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: always according to plan. But I think consistently over the

883
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: five and a half years, we have just been able

884
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: to continue growing. And I think consistency is probably the

885
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: single greatest attribute that we've we've had as a brand.

886
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: We have been very, very consistent for five and a

887
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 1: half half years, and that's that's helped us.

888
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 3: Consistent in what we.

889
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: Just in our approach, you know, consistent in what we

890
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: how we communicate, what we communicate. We are painfully considered

891
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: as a brand. I know that people get frustrated with

892
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: me and roll their eyes with me internally because I

893
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: want everything to be as close to perfect and I

894
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: don't like to jump into things right away without sort

895
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: of having as much information as we as we can,

896
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: and so we might move a little slower than other

897
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: you know, startups and other direct to consumer brands where

898
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 1: they're just constantly you know, on on Instagram. They could

899
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: feel like one brand one month and then feel like

900
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: a totally other brand, a different brand the next month,

901
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: and you know, winds blow this way and so they

902
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: go that way. And I think that we have stayed

903
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: very consistent to what our vision is, what our mission is,

904
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: our identity, how we approach you know, everything from photography

905
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: and the words that we write to the products that

906
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: we that we make and sell.

907
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 3: Has there been a point since the brand started where

908
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 3: you wondered if you'd have to throw in the towel?

909
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, a few. There's always those moments, you know,

910
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: there's you know, we have raised outside capital to help

911
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 1: launch the brand and grow the brand, and when you

912
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: do that comes with you know, different challenges, and so

913
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: much of that is timing and in some ways also luck,

914
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: and so yeah, there were some times where you know,

915
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't so much like throwing the towel as it

916
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: was what is this ultimately going to be and how

917
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: are we going to get there? And you know, we

918
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: as a you know, the other thing that's really challenging

919
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: with uh, you know, companies that have physical products is

920
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: like you I won't get into the details, but like

921
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: the working capital needs of buying your inventory before you

922
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: can sell it is challenging. You need and as you're growing, especially,

923
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: it becomes very challenging because you need to buy all

924
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 1: the inventory before you start collecting any of the revenue.

925
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: And if you grow, you know slowly, you're you can

926
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: sort of support that more easily. But when you're growing

927
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:42,240
Speaker 1: quickly and you know, doubling year over year, your demand

928
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: for the cash for that inventory grows pretty quickly. And

929
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: so we've just had some some moments where you know,

930
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 1: managing that cash and that cycle of our cash has

931
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: been challenging. And I've certainly had sleepless nights over that.

932
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: So that's been Yeah, that's been a challenge. But you know,

933
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: we've gotten through all of those, all of those instances

934
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: and again never felt like we were like ready to

935
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: throw in the towel, but certainly had some stress for sure.

936
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 3: And I mean, aside from the esthetic of tracksmith, which

937
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 3: I feel like we haven't touched on and we're you

938
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: know already so far in here but aside from the

939
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 3: esthetic being it's hard not to call it varsity. And

940
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: I'm sure that stems a little bit from your time

941
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: at an Ivy League school, right it does.

942
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't even say it's necessarily specific to

943
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: Ivy League schools. I think it's teams, you know, that

944
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: team heritage, and especially in New England. Right after college

945
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: I came to Boston. I've been you know, I've been

946
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: living here basically since then, other than a short stint

947
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: to DC. But you know, here you've got this tremendous

948
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 1: legacy of collegiate sports and club sports, and then also Boston.

949
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 1: You know, the Boston Marathon has its own ridiculous history.

950
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: It's you know, eighteen ninety seven was the first Boston Marathon,

951
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: and it's the heart and soul of the global running community,

952
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: and it's the race that still holds probably the most

953
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 1: reverence around the world for marathonors. And so, you know,

954
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: it was much more the aesthetic was much more driven

955
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: by you know that, I just personally I love I

956
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:23,439
Speaker 1: love classic sportswear. It's they're the pieces that still are

957
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 1: wearable today. They're timeless in their simplicity, they're durable, and

958
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: their material and construction techniques, you know, and you know,

959
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: we have a product, the Gray Boy, which is a

960
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 1: great example of that where I had started collecting like

961
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 1: vintage team issued teas, and my father in law ran

962
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: at Yukon and he still had, you know, his gray

963
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: cotton you know, gray marl cotton T shirt with UFC

964
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: literally hand stamped on the front of it that was

965
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: issued to him as a freshman on the team, and

966
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: he's what he trained in every day. And you know,

967
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: those that shirt has literally been worn and washed hundreds

968
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 1: and hundreds of times and it's still in great shape

969
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: and it's still something you can wear today. And so

970
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: that really drove a lot of the sort of esthetic

971
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: in the style was just that very timeless and classic

972
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: and yes, varsity and sometimes people will use vintage or retro,

973
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: which you know, we don't really think of it that way,

974
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: but certainly there's a lot of inspiration from the past.

975
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: But you know, if you looked at your if you

976
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: took your closet, you know, in two thousand and eight,

977
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: and you put everything that you wear to work out

978
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: with friends on the weekend, and then you hung your

979
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: running clothes at the end of that you know, row

980
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: of hangars, like your running clothes do not fit in

981
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: with the rest of that aesthetic, right, The color palettes

982
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: and all of those things were not consistent, and so

983
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, we just went to a much more yeah, timeless, subdued,

984
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: understated color palette, but really invested a lot in the

985
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,879
Speaker 1: materials and the raw materials that go into the product. So, yeah,

986
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: style and aesthetics is certainly a huge factor, and it's

987
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: certainly inspired by Yeah, classic collegiate sportswear. I think that's fair.

988
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 3: The other thing that I love that you guys do

989
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 3: are the custom marathon posters, which I am sitting in

990
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 3: front of three of them right now. They're my favorite

991
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 3: thing for the listeners and I get so many messages

992
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 3: about them whenever a glimpse of them goes on social media.

993
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 3: Y'all have decided at every major marathon to pop up

994
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 3: and do on the house custom stamped marathon posters, and

995
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 3: I think that is exactly what you were talking about

996
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 3: when it comes to truly servicing your consumer and also

997
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 3: being a brand for runners by runners who get what

998
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 3: an awesome thing it is that these people just did.

999
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, certainly every race has its you know,

1000
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: giveaways and you know expos and those just never felt

1001
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: great for us. And so you know, we we really

1002
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: thought about that, and I think we did it the

1003
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: first Boston Marathon that we popped up at, so we

1004
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,840
Speaker 1: didn't have the story yet, so it was twenty fifteen,

1005
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: and you know, we every so yeah, every race, we

1006
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: create a custom design for a poster and at the

1007
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 1: bottom we leave room for your time. And after the

1008
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: race you can come to the pop up or the

1009
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 1: store and you know, we you know, look up your

1010
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: official time if you don't know it whatever, and we

1011
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: we handstamp your your time because you know, marathons, any

1012
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: race really, but marathons are such a commitment from a

1013
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,479
Speaker 1: training perspective and time perspective, and a lot goes into

1014
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: it for the individual runner, and so we would we

1015
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 1: wanted to sort of you know, give something back and

1016
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: have this sort of momento that celebrated or in some

1017
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: cases commiserated, right, like you don't always pr It's not

1018
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: always a time you want. And you know, we often

1019
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: have people come in and they're you know, they're bummed

1020
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: because it was a bad race, and they say, can

1021
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: I just put you know, last year's time or can

1022
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: I just have the poster without my time, And we

1023
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: always check like encourage people like no, like put the

1024
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: time on there, like six months from now, this will

1025
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: be a source of inspiration. You know, something didn't go

1026
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 1: right today and you know, just just be okay with that,

1027
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: you know. And so those posters, it started as a

1028
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: very small thing that first marathon, and the response to

1029
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: them has been so positive and so now I mean

1030
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 1: we literally, you know, the two days after all the majors,

1031
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: I mean, we're stamping posters. Unfortunately we usually run out

1032
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: because it just keeps growing. But yeah, it's a great

1033
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 1: also just a great opportunity to talk to runners and

1034
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 1: talk to our customers. You know, they're standing in line

1035
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 1: for a little bit, why we stamp for them? And

1036
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: you know, you know runners after a race there there chat.

1037
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: They want to talk about the race. They want to

1038
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: hear about your race. You know, they want to commiserate

1039
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: about the weather and how bad it was or how

1040
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: great it was. And so it's just like the running

1041
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: community at its best is right after a major marathon.

1042
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that. I think to your

1043
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 3: point about you want to be able to reflect on that,

1044
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I have three of them in my apartment,

1045
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 3: and the slowest time would be my Boston twenty eighteen time.

1046
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 3: But it is my favorite poster because I look at

1047
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 3: this four oh one thirty seven and think about that

1048
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 3: day and the grit and how awesome is it that

1049
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 3: I have a reminder of what I am capable of

1050
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 3: and it doesn't have to be my fastest time sitting

1051
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 3: right on the wall in my living room.

1052
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: I mean Boston twenty eighteen. You like, you will remember

1053
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 1: that race for the rest of your life, maybe even

1054
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 1: more so than your best race or your second best

1055
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 1: race or your best race, right like, that was something

1056
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: truly unique and yeah, so to have that moment to

1057
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 1: hanging there is amazing.

1058
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 3: What inspiration would you say that you have brought with

1059
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 3: you from your running career, perhaps a lesson that you

1060
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 3: learned as a college athlete now that you are running

1061
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 3: this company.

1062
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 1: I feel like running and running a company are so synonymous.

1063
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: You know, running, especially distance running. You know, you don't

1064
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 1: wake up one day and go do it the first day.

1065
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: It takes a long time to build that foundation. That's

1066
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: sort of the transfer of being a runner to running

1067
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: a company. That has been the most obvious for me

1068
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: to sort of what can I draw from my experience

1069
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: as a runner to bring to this is that, you know,

1070
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: the concept of delayed gratification, you know, the idea that

1071
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: we're doing something now, not for tomorrow, before months or

1072
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: years from now, and that can be a hard thing

1073
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: to do, especially the world we live in where everything

1074
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: is so immediate and so short lived and you know,

1075
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: can be boiled down to one hundred and forty characters.

1076
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: To sort of have that discipline and confidence that okay,

1077
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: this is you know, we're doing the right thing, but

1078
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: we may not see the results of this for some time.

1079
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: So that certainly that approach and that mindset has been

1080
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: one and then the other is just sort of like

1081
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, when you're training, you're not all out all

1082
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: the time. There's a cycle to it, and there's a

1083
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: cadence to it, and there's you know, even within a

1084
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 1: week or a month or a year, there are peaks

1085
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 1: and valleys to your training. And I think that our

1086
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: organization and our team sort of does that naturally. It's

1087
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 1: sort of just I don't know if it's something that

1088
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: as runners we've brought to it, but it's you know,

1089
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 1: there are moments attracts Smith that are super hectic and

1090
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: chaotic and we're all working like crazy, and then there

1091
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: are moments when you're sort of like, huh, are are

1092
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: people working enough? Do we have enough going on? But

1093
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: I think it's just that that natural cadence where we

1094
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: get super into executing, you know, something major, a pop up.

1095
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: You know, pop ups are really really hard to execute

1096
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 1: with a small team when you do it all yourself.

1097
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: We don't outsource that. We do everything from finding the

1098
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 1: space to building it out to you know, staffing it.

1099
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: We do that all ourselves, and so it's a big

1100
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: effort for the team. And then afterwards we get a

1101
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: little bit of a down period, you get your off period,

1102
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: you know. And so those are the sort of things

1103
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: from running that definitely have sort of come to Tracksmith

1104
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: from the sort of management and operation side of things.

1105
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 3: I also think that you mentioned before that people might

1106
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 3: get on your case a little bit for being a perfectionist,

1107
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 3: but when it's something that you've created and something that

1108
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 3: you're so passionate about, I would almost expect nothing less.

1109
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 3: When you think about running your company and you think

1110
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 3: about showing up for all the people that work for you,

1111
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 3: you have to go into it with a certain amount

1112
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 3: of wisdom and a strategic approach, and to do that

1113
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 3: you probably have to look to mentors every now and again.

1114
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 3: So when you think about the best advice that you

1115
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 3: have been offered in this phase of your career leading

1116
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 3: up this company, what would you say has been the

1117
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 3: best piece of advice.

1118
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: That's a good question, because you get a lot of

1119
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: advice when you when you start a company and you

1120
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: run a company. I mean I have had, you know,

1121
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: really great people around me, and that's been less about

1122
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: you know, a particular piece of advice and more just

1123
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: support and you know, listeners who can you know, sort

1124
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 1: of help steer you or help you think through a problem.

1125
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 1: The thing I found kind of contradictory to what you're

1126
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: asking early on is that I think people often, you know,

1127
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: look for a single answer or direction, and so people

1128
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: will say they'll take an example of a company that

1129
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: has been successful and and sort of say, okay, this

1130
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: is the way to do it. And somehow early on,

1131
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:48,960
Speaker 1: I don't know what sparked it, but I just thought, man,

1132
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm getting contradictory advice, you know, And the reality is

1133
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: there are so much there's so much nuance, and so

1134
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 1: many variables to what we are trying to do that

1135
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: there is not a playbook. There's not a single thing

1136
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: thing that that we should do or you know, there's

1137
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: more than one way that we can be successful. There's

1138
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: not a single way to do this. And so I've

1139
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: been very open and broad in terms of what I

1140
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 1: read and advice I seek out. And certainly in the

1141
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: early days, I would you know, I was bugging people

1142
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: to talk to me, and anyone that would, I would

1143
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 1: ask them a lot of questions. But I think at

1144
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you have to be really

1145
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: confident in your vision and just sort of stay the course.

1146
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: And that's really hard to do because I also don't

1147
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: have all the answers and everyone knows that, you know,

1148
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: and so you kind of have to show up every

1149
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,919
Speaker 1: day and you know, just sort of put your best

1150
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: foot forward and say this is you know, this is

1151
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 1: what we said we're doing, and this is this is it,

1152
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,760
Speaker 1: while at the same time being valuable and flexible because

1153
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: things change a lot. I mean, we're living through that

1154
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: right now. Right like no one predicted the situation that

1155
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: we would be in now with coronavirus, and so what

1156
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: we thought was our plan for twenty twenty has shifted,

1157
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: so it doesn't. I know, that doesn't answer your question.

1158
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,880
Speaker 1: The only piece of advice that I literally whenever, the

1159
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: only thing I can think of, and it's not even advice,

1160
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: but my grandfather, who is no longer with us, but

1161
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 1: growing up we would see them a couple times a

1162
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 1: year and he loved to play cards. That's all we

1163
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,640
Speaker 1: would do is play cards. And I was young in

1164
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: learning how to play this very obscure game that's only

1165
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: played in western Pennsylvania called cinch. And you know when

1166
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: I think he really enjoyed having me around, and he

1167
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: knew that I was competitive and you know, like to

1168
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: take risks, and he would always it's a game where

1169
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: you have to you have to bet, you have to

1170
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 1: bet what you think you'll win on that hand. And

1171
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: he always used to say God hates a coward. When

1172
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: I was like, when it was my turn to bid

1173
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 1: and I was thinking, ah, should I bid three or four?

1174
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,959
Speaker 1: You know, he just across the table say God hates

1175
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: a coward. And it wasn't a specific piece of advice,

1176
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: but it really was, like it comes back to what

1177
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: I was saying earlier of that, like Yeah, like you can.

1178
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 1: You can take risks as long as the worst case

1179
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: scenario failing that is not hurting other people death or

1180
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: some other catastrophic thing. It's like, yeah, let's let's do this,

1181
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: let's take a risk, let's figure this out. And so

1182
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: that's I guess that's my that's my one piece of

1183
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: advice that's really stuck with me.

1184
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 3: Take a risk, A smart risk smart is the takeaway.

1185
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 3: So we're winding down here before I ask our final question,

1186
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 3: I'm curious what excites you right now?

1187
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: You know, I was really really excited about twenty twenty.

1188
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 1: It's an Olympic year, you know, which is for our sport,

1189
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 1: such a unique event and opportunity. And like I said,

1190
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 1: we had some really big plans around sort of this year,

1191
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: and you know, it's the one time every four years

1192
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: that the rest of the world sort of pays attention

1193
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: to running. And obviously that's all changed in a heartbeat,

1194
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: that's all changed, but it won't really, you know, it

1195
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: just it just postpones things. And so I'm excited for

1196
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 1: trying to steer us through the situation we're in so

1197
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: that we can get to what we were planning in

1198
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, and that's you know, exciting and terrifying

1199
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: and challenging and all of those things. But you know,

1200
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: I am really I'm excited to see you know what running,

1201
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,160
Speaker 1: how running comes out of this. And you know, I

1202
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 1: don't know the fall marathons. It doesn't look good. Berlin

1203
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: was canceled. Who knows about the other now four major

1204
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 1: marathons in the fall. You know, We've got a plan

1205
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: for all scenarios. But I think once things do get

1206
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: back to normal, I think things will be a little

1207
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: bit different. And I'm excited to sort of, you know,

1208
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: hopefully be a part of that as a brand and

1209
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,919
Speaker 1: support people and communities and clubs and teams and individuals.

1210
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: You know, as we start to come out of this

1211
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 1: very weird time that we're in.

1212
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,680
Speaker 3: You have an opportunity right now, looking back on the

1213
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 3: time right before starting tracks and at three, maybe even

1214
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 3: just before heading on over to Puma, where you're not

1215
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 3: exactly sure what your path for you a certain hurdle

1216
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 3: moment without a doubt, you have an opportunity right now

1217
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 3: to offer yourself one piece of advice looking back.

1218
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: On that time right now, what do you tell yourself

1219
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: probably to embrace the journey, I think, and that's another

1220
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: parallel to running. You know, at the time when you're

1221
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: going through that process, you know you have so many

1222
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 1: different feelings, and you know so many factors will go

1223
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: into whether or not you succeed or fail at something.

1224
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: It's not as easy as just being like I'm going

1225
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: to work harder than everyone else. Like that's not you know,

1226
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: that's not great advice that we that we give to

1227
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: people because that's not always the reality. But if you

1228
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: can sort of just embrace the journey, the highs and

1229
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: the lows, the winds and the losses, I think you

1230
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,439
Speaker 1: can learn a lot from that and gain a lot

1231
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: from that. And it's the same in running. Right it's

1232
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: your four oh one in Boston. You know, it wasn't

1233
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 1: your fastest race, but it's just part of the journey.

1234
01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:59,959
Speaker 1: And I think if we if we can like stay

1235
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 1: back every once in a while and look at the bigger,

1236
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: longer term picture, I think that's probably like the you know,

1237
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: looking back on my journey to get to hear I

1238
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: think some of the time I've done that well and

1239
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: some of the time I haven't. If I could go back,

1240
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: I would certainly sort of that would be like a

1241
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: mantra of mine to embrace the journey as it's as

1242
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: it's going on.

1243
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 3: Embrace the journey. I love it.

1244
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 1: Matt.

1245
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for your time today.

1246
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, I really appreciate it.

1247
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 3: Please take a moment and leave a quick review of

1248
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 3: the podcast by clicking the link with the description to

1249
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 3: this episode. We all face multiple hurdles in life. I

1250
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 3: want to hear about yours. Reach out to me at

1251
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 3: Emily at Hurdle dot us. Connect with the podcast on

1252
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 3: Instagram and Twitter at Hurdle Podcast. Matt, how do they

1253
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 3: keep up with you? How do they keep up with Tracksmith?

1254
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 3: Give me the details.

1255
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 1: Tracksmith dot com and tracksmith running on Instagram? Me personally,

1256
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: you got to email me or write me a letter.

1257
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: I'm I'm off the grid social media wise.

1258
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, but handwritten letters are how you got to where

1259
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 3: you are today. We're bringing a full circle exactly. Well.

1260
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 3: Thanks so much. I am at Emily a body at

1261
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 3: Hurdle Podcast. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.