1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always 3 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Let's give a big shout 4 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: out to our one and only super producer. You know him, 5 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: you love him, the man, the myth a legend, Mr 6 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: Max Williams. They called me ben Nol. Today's episode is 7 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: about bird poop. Yeah, and I think it's not the 8 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: first time we've talked about bird poop on this show. 9 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: That's correct, I'm not mistaken. There was another episode about 10 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: bird poop when we when this topic came up from 11 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: our incredible new researcher Jeff, I had to do a 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: double tay. That's where we've on this. But no, in fact, 13 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: we did another episode that involved guano, which is a 14 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: catch all terms not just for bat poop, for any 15 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: avian creatures poop, and and it's very useful stuff and 16 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: often the subject of not only intense debate, you know 17 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: as to what creatures quote qualified for guano, but you know, 18 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: bloody wars over the stuff because it's like good for 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: lots of things, including making bombs. Yep. Agreed, guano is 20 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: a resource all its own. Often underestimated because it is 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: in fact poop and people have their own, uh somewhat 22 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: prejudicial views about feces. Yes, big announcement, Max, if we 23 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: could get some sort of big announcement music perfect. This 24 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: is the first time we're working with a good friend 25 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: of the show, longtime fan, Mr Jeff Bartlett, a research associate. 26 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: Not the only new addition to our crew. You'll learn 27 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 1: more in the next episode, but Jeff absolutely wowed us 28 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: with this story that I believe neither of us had 29 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: heard before. It's about how Bolivia lost a serious war 30 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: over bird poop. That's right, and you might also if 31 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: you're interested in bird poop and you want mean I 32 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: have to tell you this, Ben. I used to have 33 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: a boss who is from like the Midwest, and he 34 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: introduced me to the term which I would never use 35 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: in conversation, the straight poop. Well, if you want the 36 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: straight poop on bird poop, we're gonna give you some 37 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: of that today. But you can also get it from 38 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: an episode that we did about when US farmers went 39 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: nuts about bird poop. And it's actually a good primer 40 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: for this episode because of the reason for this bloody 41 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: conflict was an explosion no pun intended in the demand 42 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: for bird poop, and a large part of that was 43 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: because of agriculture. Yep, that's correct, So we know since 44 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: before the dawn of the written word, wars have often 45 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: been the result of disputes over territory and more pointedly, 46 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: the resources those territories contain. We're talking today about something 47 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: that you would call the War of the Pacific or 48 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: la Guiartra del Pacifical. It took place from eighteen seventy 49 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: nine to eighteen eighty three, and this was an international 50 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: conflict involved Chile, Bolivia and Peru, and it started as 51 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,279 Speaker 1: a beef that Chile and Bolivia had over who controlled 52 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: part of the Atacama Desert. This is something that is 53 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: known historically. You can see it in Britannica. We also 54 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: like to recommend an excellent source that our our guy 55 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: Jeff found, the National Interest why Bolivia and Chile once 56 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: went to war over guando parentheses bird droppings. So the uh, 57 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: this is by Peter Seucy so shout out to him. 58 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: But the spoiler, there's a reason that they were fighting 59 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: so ardently over this poop, and it's not They weren't 60 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: just super into poop for poop's sake alone. If you 61 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: look at the desert, it's between the twenty three and 62 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: parallels on the Pacific coast of South America. I visited. 63 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: It's lovely and you should check it out if you're 64 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: the chance. But they were thinking in particular of something 65 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: called sodium nitrate. Yeah, that's right, um. You know, bird 66 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: poop isn't just the stuff that you you know, are 67 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: disgusted by and angry at birds when you shake your 68 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: fists at the heavens when you see it on your car, 69 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: God forbids you have a black car, because it's just 70 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: the most you know, obvious thing in the world, sticks 71 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: out like a sore thumb, and it's gross, so you 72 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: gotta scrape it off or like go to a car wash. 73 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: But then you can have the car wash and one 74 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: inevitably happens another bird poops on your car. What can 75 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: happen with this stuff? Though? In times remember their work 76 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: cars parked everywhere. Instead of that stuff landing on your car, 77 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: it would end up in the ground or in the soil, 78 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: and there would be large deposits of it, specifically on 79 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: coastal areas where seabirds, you know, are always pooping that's 80 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: what we're dealing with here is a coastal region that 81 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: contained significant deposits of guano, which is an incredible source 82 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: of nitrogen, phosphate, and potassium, which are all materials that 83 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: can be used to make gunpowder and you know, things 84 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: that go boom. Yeah, And for a little bit of background, 85 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: this was an area that was ripe for this sort 86 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: of territorial dispute. The countries involved, Chile and Bolivia had 87 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: earlier negotiated a treaty that recognized specifically the twenty four 88 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: parallel as their international boundary, and it gave Chile also 89 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: the right to share in export taxes on the mineral 90 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: resources of Bolivia's territory in this area, just in general, 91 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: the general mineral resources. But Bolivia was increasingly less happy 92 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: with this relationship. You know, they thought, they thought, well, 93 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: Chile is big and um and they're parasitic. It's a 94 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: parasitic partnership, they were thinking. So they thought, you know, 95 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: Chile might try to take over our coastal region because 96 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: from a business perspective, they already have their creepy tentacles 97 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 1: and the mining industry. But in addition to that, excellent 98 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: Spanish produnciation to give Earlier, the War of the Pacific 99 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: was also called the Saltpeter War, which referred to the 100 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: stuff in the guano, which we're going to get to, 101 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: that whole side of things that was so sought after 102 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: and used to make explosives and gunpowder. So here's the 103 00:06:54,920 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: root of the conflict. Chilean and British businesses in the area. 104 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: They've got their tax regimes set out, and if you 105 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: asked those folks, they would say that Bolivia was the 106 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: parasite in the relationship or in the interaction, because as 107 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: these businesses began to make more money in the region, 108 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: the Bolivian government, controlling the territory UH in practice at 109 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: this point, said we're going to increase the taxes. We're 110 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: going to get more of a big off the work 111 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: that you are doing. And since the border treaty that 112 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: they had signed earlier back in eighteen seventy four did 113 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: not allow for this tax increase, and these private companies 114 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: felt the tax was unfair. They started going They're very 115 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: powerful people, they started going to the Chilean government and 116 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: they said, hey, you guys have to get involved. We 117 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: are taking a bath on this. It's unfair because we're 118 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: doing all the work and they're just sort of taking 119 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: money from us, or you know, taking what we have 120 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: done and for their own. And then this led to 121 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: a diplomatic crisis, it led to a war, and because 122 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: it led to a war, the Chilean government officials learned 123 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: that the whole time Bolivia had been secretly booed up 124 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: with Peru. They had a kind of alliance that said, 125 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, somebody starts to fight with you, they start 126 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: a fight with me, that's right. And then in eighteen 127 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: seventy eight, the Bolivian government under President Hilarion Daza put 128 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: out a decree that announced a backdated eighteen seventy four 129 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: tax increase on Chilean companies. And the Chilean companies were 130 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: not happy about this. Their government under President on About Pinto. 131 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: So this was not in step with the border treaty. 132 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: So then one of those companies meant that you mentioned, uh, 133 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: the Anna Fagasta Nitrate and Railway company. They just flat 134 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: out refused to pay. And at that point the Bolivian 135 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: government says, okay, then we're going to confiscate your property. 136 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: So that's not cool. At that point, Chili responded by 137 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: this this is the war that you're talking about, just 138 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: some of the details as to like how it kind 139 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: of began. At this point, Chili respondent as you should, 140 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: as you must. You know, if your government you got, 141 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: you can't be flexed on without flexing back in return. 142 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: Uh decided to take it to the next, you know, 143 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: highest level of flex by sending a warship to the area. 144 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: Pretty pretty serious escalation and going from threats about taxes, 145 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: confiscating property to full on warship invasion, and that was 146 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: in December of eighteen seventy eight. Bolivia then announced that 147 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: they were going to seize and auction the entire company 148 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: that and IF and if Agasta Nitrate and Railway company, 149 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: and that was going to happen on on Valentine's Day 150 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: of February fourteenth. So then Chile, you know, not to 151 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,839 Speaker 1: be outdone, once again threatened that if they did that, 152 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: it would render the border treaty null, which was all anybody, 153 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: which is all they wanted in the first place. So 154 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: at this point it's become a pretty nasty back and 155 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: forth that is on the verge of an explosion, like 156 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: literally like a like a diplomatic explosion, a real powder Kang, 157 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 1: which is appropriate considering the materials we're talking about today. So, 158 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: in the day of that auction, which ended up being 159 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,359 Speaker 1: the high water mark, uh you know, match strike day 160 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: of this conflict, two thousand Chilean soldiers poured into the country, 161 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: got off their boat and claimed the ports city of 162 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: Antifagasta without a fight. It was a bloodless takeover, thankfully 163 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: at the time. Now we have a massive border dispute, 164 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: massive territorial dispute. Yeah, it only took about a week 165 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: for Bolivia to declare war. And then say, oh, you've 166 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: triggered my trap card. And my trap card is this 167 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: secret alliance with Peru? Is that a magic thing? Trap 168 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: card is my attempt to reference a meme that comes 169 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: from a card game called u g O, which some 170 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: of our fellow ridiculous historians may remember probably, So yeah, 171 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: Ugo is like kind of the poor man's Pokemon, and 172 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: which was like magic for kids. I always loved playing bookmon, 173 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: but I've never gotten the gumption to get into magic. 174 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: I really want to. It's a lot of fun. I 175 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: got two things for us right here. One, I have 176 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: a buddy who dreamed of being a professional Ugo player, 177 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if that actually exists, but he dreamed 178 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: Number two dreams bring it out a couple of feet away. 179 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: I got a giant desk that I do all my 180 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: stuff on, and no joke, I have an entire drawer 181 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: just dedicated to childhood, you know, um fun items. It's 182 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: the biggest drawer of my desk. I I mean, I 183 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: really should grow up already. Will you teach me how 184 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: to play? Of course? Yeah, we will walk together. I mean, 185 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't have that any good cards. 186 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: I think, like my holographic charts are not first edition, 187 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: but just holographic charts. You got a few of those 188 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: metallic e ones. Me and my kid were into and 189 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: she was little. We had the matt and everything, and 190 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: I really liked playing. I think I liked it more 191 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: than she did, so Max, I fully am on board 192 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: with this and Ben. It's a super fun game and 193 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: very quick to pick up, and I think I have 194 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: about as many as you do in a couple of 195 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: big freezer bags. Let's all go hang on to this 196 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: guy right on, because I still have a secret thing 197 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: for you. Max. I. I had left it at the 198 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: office and I took it back because we're in the 199 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: midst of a move, but so is Bolivia at this 200 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: time their secret alliance. Its official name is the Defensive 201 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: Tree of eighteen seventy three. And then Peruvian government wants 202 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: to stay true to their words, so they say, not 203 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: only are we gonna make good on our agreement with Bolivia, 204 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: but in the great geopolitical game and the long term chess, 205 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: this matters to us because we believe Chile is expansionist, 206 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: and we're also kind of worried that not everybody's in 207 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: the best shape to face the Chilean army. So Peru 208 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: at first counsel's a peaceful resolution. They say, all right, 209 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: we're gonna send one of our top guys, one of 210 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: our top men shout out to Indiana Jones to negotiate 211 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: with the government of Chile. Chile says, we need you 212 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 1: to make a statement of neutrality, and Peru says, I 213 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: can't really do that because we just went public about 214 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: our secret relationship with Bolivia. And then Chile says, all right, well, 215 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: we're not talking diplomacy at all. We're declaring war on 216 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: both of you. And they do this on April five, 217 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy nine, and so even though Peru was not 218 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: involved in this guano conversation at all, they got sucked in, 219 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: kind of like if you've ever been in a in 220 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: a bit of a brew haha with your friends or 221 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 1: a hullabaloo, and then you hear one of your friends say, oh, 222 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: you've got a problem with me, You've got problem with 223 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: all of us, And then you look around and you're like, 224 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: why is this guy pointing at us? Oh? Boy, here 225 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: we go. So Peru lost thousands of of troops and 226 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: a lot of property during the war. At the end 227 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: of the war, there was a seven month civil war. 228 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: Love that when one one war between you and another 229 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: country lead to a war within your own borders amongst 230 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: your own people. And a lot of this has to 231 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: do with the fact that the nation was economically destitute 232 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: after all of this, and continued to be uh for 233 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: many years to come. So finally, in eighteeny four, there 234 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: was a truce between Bolivia and chile Um and Chile 235 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: was given as a condition of this truce, control over 236 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: the entire coast of Bolivia that included the h that 237 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: Um city of Anti Fagasta or the province within and 238 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: all of that good stuff and that was the good 239 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: stuff that was the area with a nitrate and the 240 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: copper and all of these other minerals that were very 241 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: very precious and very very mindable, so that the nineteen 242 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: o four a treaty was established that made this you know, 243 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: I guess temporary truce permanent the law of the lands. 244 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: M hmm. Yeah. And at this point, ridiculous historians, if you, 245 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: like the rest of us, are living not in the 246 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, then you may rightly ask yourself, what's the deal? 247 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: Why all this bird poop? We have the answer. Wuanna, 248 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: like we established earlier in this episode, has nitrogen, phosphates, 249 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff that is super valuable in 250 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: the industrial age. It works in both agriculture and economic development. 251 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: And we know, thanks to Gregory Cushman, the author of 252 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: Guana and the Opening of the Pacific World, a Global 253 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: Ecological History, that guana was a huge, huge deal. It 254 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: could be used to produce things or be part of 255 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: the production process of goods like glass, bleach dye, color glazes. 256 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: Pushman even says it tells us quite a lot about 257 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: the historical circumstances that have enabled us to grow to 258 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: become so numerous as a species, and he particularly believes 259 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: that fertilizer has played this role in supporting the growth 260 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: of large concentrated populations. So, in a real way, modern 261 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: civilization owes a lot to burp poop or bat poop 262 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: wana nember that. Remember that Ace of Ventura sequel when 263 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: Nature calls the Big Twist, and that one is that 264 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: it's like all about the evil Americans just want the 265 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: guano that like the indigenous people have because of their 266 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: like giant sacred bats or something like that, really really 267 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: problematic if you go back and watch it now, is 268 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: that the one where he comes out of like a 269 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: fake rhinos but or something? He does do that thing? Yes, 270 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's a genius disguise apparently, And I think 271 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: it was kind of parodied in an episode of Always 272 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: Sunny in Philadelphia where where Frank pops out of like 273 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: a couch like a weird baby seal being born. He's 274 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: all sweaty and covered in slime. I think it's a 275 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: reference to that, but I could be wrong. But yeah, 276 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: I guano is the kicker of that timeless piece of 277 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: of American cinema. So well, Guano is kind of a 278 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: catch all for you know, the excrement of avian creature. 279 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: Just like we said at the top of the show, 280 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: the word guana is obviously a South American word. It 281 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: has come sort of like xerox or coke, you know, 282 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: to become a catch all because of the most popular 283 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: version of a thing for all of the things. You know, 284 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: coke represents all soda, unless you're from the Midwest, in 285 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: which case it's like pop. God forbid you're from the 286 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: Carolinas and call it pepsi because that's a horrible drink. 287 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: But the most important part of the stuff, whatever you 288 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,959 Speaker 1: want to call it, is all of the mineral nitrates 289 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: that are found in the Attacama Desert. Because of this, 290 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: the South American sea birds, specifically their variety of guano, 291 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: happens to be the richest source of this kind of 292 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: nitrogen on the entire planet. Even though any any bird 293 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: poop or avian poop is pretty rich in this stuff. 294 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: Because of specifically the mineral content of the environment that 295 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: these birds find themselves in, there's is the best. That 296 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: is the best poop you can get. Not to mention 297 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,959 Speaker 1: that the climate of the Pacific coast of Chile and 298 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: the chemical balance of you know, the ocean water in Peru. 299 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: They all of these things combined to create this ecosystem 300 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: that creates like the perfect combination of circumstances for an 301 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: incredibly rich environment for fish as well as of course 302 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: the seabirds that eat them. So at all in turn 303 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: goes to create the highest quality guana that you can imagine, 304 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: which would make the boomiest of boom stuff. So there's 305 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: copious amounts of gauan know rich in this phosphates, nitrates, 306 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: and potassiums that are um deposited in this coastal region. 307 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: Not to mention the agricultural angle. These are the three nitrate, phosphate, potassium, 308 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: most important components of any fertilizer. And this wasn't always 309 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: a thing that people were aware of. And because there's 310 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: so little rain in this area, the stuff stays where 311 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: it is, so it can be mind essentially because of 312 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: the dry climate. So it creates these very very rich 313 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: and dense deposits of this stuff. And like I said, 314 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: this wasn't always a thing. There was a revolution going on. 315 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: Ben you mentioned how guano essentially was a huge part 316 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: of the industrial revolution. This was also a huge part 317 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: of industrialized farming. Yeah, this is weird because guana was 318 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: sort of an unsung hero. I would call it of 319 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: the industrial age. Look, I get it for bird poop 320 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: looks gross, right, And if you are familiar with the 321 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: history of fertilizer, you know that feces has played a 322 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: big role at agriculture. Even today, UH, some agricultural communities 323 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: engaged in the practice of night soil, which is using 324 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: human feces to uh, to provide fertilizer for crops. But 325 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: despite bird poops really gross appearance and it's not great smell, 326 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,120 Speaker 1: back in the eighteen hundreds, it was sold around the 327 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: world and it was the number one agricultural fertilizer in 328 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: the US. I mean, even before the war in Bolivia 329 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: we're talking about today, the very first American ships that 330 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: were mining guano. We're doing it in the eighteen thirties 331 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: off the coast of Peru a place called the Chincha Islands, 332 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: and there was a large population of various birds. I 333 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: always love how ridiculous bird names can sound. So let's 334 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: all be adults here. There were pelicans, there were cormorants, 335 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: and there were of course boobies. We can say that 336 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: because it's a family show and it's the actual bird's name, 337 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: but we can still chuckle. Right, Max is tickled by 338 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: that one. It's also a bird called it. Yeah, oh yeah, 339 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: the great bush tit is that one? Am I just 340 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: making it up? I can't. You might have made that 341 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,719 Speaker 1: one to take it to the next floor. There are 342 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: probably tips of different varieties from different regions. I imagine. Yes, 343 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,959 Speaker 1: there is a bird called the bush tit. It is 344 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: not necessarily great, so I guess that part was my opinion, 345 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: But the actual name is bush tit. Anyhow, Off the 346 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: coast of Peru, these American ships find islands that are 347 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: covered in guano almost two hundred feet deep, and this 348 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: Peruvian guano gets popular in the US, and then, like 349 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: you had alluded to earlier, knowl a lot of other companies, 350 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: private interests are searching other parts of the Pacific, in 351 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: the Caribbean to find the better guado. And it really 352 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: all depended on rainfall, because when it would rain on 353 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: these islands or these sources, the nitrates would be sapped 354 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: out of the guano, and so places with relatively dry 355 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: climate like this area of Bolivia slash Chile and the 356 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: Chincha Islands off the coast of Peru because they didn't 357 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: have a lot of rain. They had really superpowered, like 358 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: high grade Guando, the best in the world, no hyperbole. 359 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: And as soon as people heard about the beauty of Guado, 360 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: Americans became super super eager. They were feending for it, 361 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: even though various South American governments were selling it at 362 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: a premium. And as crazy as it sounds, the US 363 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: president of the time, Millard Fillmore, even talked about Guando 364 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: in public and it was like a policy issue. It 365 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: was a big, big deal nationally. Millard Fillmore one of 366 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: the nerdiest president names of all time. I don't know why. 367 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: I just think when I hear Millard, I just think 368 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: of Millhouse and this bad things happening to poor Millhouse. 369 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: But then there's that one episode where everything's coming up Millhouse. 370 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: It always makes me happy. Um. Yeah, he said it 371 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,479 Speaker 1: was quote the duty of sorry, it's the duty we're 372 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: talking about poop. Never mind, um, the duty of the 373 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: government to employ Max. I didn't even get a chuckle 374 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: out of you. Good lord, you're letting me down, but 375 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: you're letting It's okay. It's the duty of the government 376 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 1: to employ all means properly in its power for the 377 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: purpose of causing that article. You know, in that article, 378 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about Peruvian guano to be imported into the 379 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: country at a reasonable price. So even Millard Fillmore is 380 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: concerned about the price, I mean, the the taxation. You know, 381 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: that's a that's a big part of uh. You know, 382 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: fair trade between nations is like having a reasonable bill 383 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: and predictable import or export attacks and now hopefully ridiculous historians, 384 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 1: it seems a little bit less strange that there was 385 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: a war over the poop of flying animals, which is 386 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: guana was just the excrement of pretty much any flying animal, 387 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: from bird to bat. We know that this led to 388 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: other international conflicts. The Cincha Islands became the subject of 389 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: the Cincha Islands War, also related to bird poop, and 390 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: we mentioned this in a previous episode. The US even 391 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: passed legislation eighteen fifty six that said, hey, if you're 392 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: a U. S citizen and you find an unoccupied island 393 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: iguana on it, stick a flag in it, baby, say 394 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: that that's property of the US, because we're not playing 395 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: around and we know no and that and that was 396 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: a big that was a big feature of the previous 397 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: episode that I mentioned at the top of the show, 398 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: when US farmers went crazy for a bird poop. It 399 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: was all about claiming islands that had these deposits. So 400 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: this is an international affair, right And part of the reason, 401 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: again going back to the excellent work of this historian Pushman, 402 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: part of the reason this war spiked was because the 403 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: trade was in danger of being disrupted. There was a 404 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: huge earthquake in eighteen sixty eight, a nine point zero 405 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: magnitude quake that generated a tsunami. And this even back 406 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: in the late eighteen hundreds or mid late eighteen hundreds, 407 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: this earthquake was a big enough deal that people felt 408 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: it in New Zealand, in Japan, in Hawaii. And this 409 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: earthquake struck the Atacama Desert right in the middle of 410 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: this guano nitrates boom. So it put pressure on these countries. 411 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: And it's a good you know, it's fair to ask 412 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: whether this war would have occurred without that earthquake, if 413 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: we would have even had the Salt Pire War or 414 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: the War of the Pacific. I think it's here to 415 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: say that eventually some kind of conflict would have would 416 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: have occurred because people were just gaga for guano. It's 417 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: probably the silliest way to put it. It's a perfectly 418 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: delightful way of putting it, if you ask me. All 419 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: this to say is that there's probably sillier things that 420 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: wars have been waged over. But you know, look, it's 421 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: only silly because we're children, and um, we think poop 422 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: is funny. But you know, it doesn't matter where it 423 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: comes from if it serves as an important component in 424 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: all of the you know, chemicals that drive the industrial 425 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: world and also you know war itself, so war over 426 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: war stuff that makes sense, even though it's just the 427 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: white stuff you know that ends up on your car. 428 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,239 Speaker 1: It's gross, but it's it's it's an important commodity. And 429 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: Bolivia found that out the hard way when they were 430 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: robbed of a lovely stretch of coastline. Um that that 431 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: rightfully belonged to them, but um, they were outclassed in 432 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: war and it was taken from them, and it was 433 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: what's the status of that situation today, I imagine, I 434 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: mean there's probably still you know more about South American 435 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: diplomacy and um, you know, affairs than I do, Ben, 436 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: and there's still tension between these nations, right well, there. Yeah, 437 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: there's always gonna be a some amount of tension between 438 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: nations over various things. But that nineteen oh four treaty, 439 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: as far as I know, made a permanent the um 440 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: one you mentioned earlier. Still, this gives us an opportunity 441 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: to mention something that is not pleasant but is important. 442 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: It's a phenomenon known as the resource curse. Some of 443 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: the most resource rich areas and countries in the world 444 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: are struggling under crippling inequality because they have been, you know, 445 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: victimized through one international conflict or another, such that private 446 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: companies and other countries can extract whatever valuable things they have. 447 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: And the past really the past. There's a conversation, of course, 448 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: but the past also sets important precedents. And recently Olivia 449 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: has been learning about another resource immensely valuable to the 450 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: modern world that is in its possession, and it's been 451 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: trying to avoid being exploited in that regard. Bolivia, as 452 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: we record today, has about a quarter of the world's 453 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: known supply of lithium. Olivia, by the way, it's not 454 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: a huge nation in terms of population. It's about twelve 455 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: million people, and multiple foreign companies are trying to get 456 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: lithium projects going there, because you guys know, lithiums like 457 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: a rare earth metal. It's used in tons of electronic applications. 458 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: So we're going to see what happens. But I would 459 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: also not to be too conspiratorial. That's for stuff they 460 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. I would also keep an 461 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: eye on any conflicts in Bolivia in the near future 462 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: and checked to see whether or not they're related to 463 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: mining rights. Absolutely, it's often something very much at play 464 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: in these kind of situations. So on that note, we 465 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: will leave you for today. Thanks to new researcher Jeff 466 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: to super producer Max Williams. Alex Williams composed this banging track, 467 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: thanks also, of course to Christopher Haciotas, thanks to Eve's 468 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: Jeff co. Thanks to uh yeah, our brand new super 469 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: research associate Jeff Bartlett. Will have to have him on 470 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: the show soon and we'll introduce you to our second, 471 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: brand new, straight out the box super research associate, one 472 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: and only, Zach Williams later this next episode, so tune 473 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: in in the meantime. I guess what we can take 474 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: away from this is that the weirdest things and maybe 475 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: the most insignificant seeming things can lead to great and 476 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: sometimes violent change. No truer where it's were ever spoken. 477 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: See you next time, folux M. For more podcasts from 478 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 479 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.