WEBVTT - Positively Gam: Kev and Melissa Fredericks - Marriage and Divorce 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.640 It wasn't until I started to share some of my 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.320 own struggles that I recognized there were so many people, 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:11.639 so many women that were like me too, girl, me too? Girl, Oh, girl, 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.240 me too? And I was like, are you serious? Why 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:17.360 is no one talking about this? Here? I am on 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.360 this boat feeling like I'm alone and isolated, and there's 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:22.920 so much shame, feeling like you're the only one going 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.000 through this. And then as soon as you speak up, 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.200 there's so many people on the boat with you. We 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:36.160 just all silent and struggling, not even together. Really, what's up, everybody? 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.960 I'm Gammy and this is positively gam Every week I 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.960 have raw, in depth conversations with inspirational people pushing for 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:49.559 change on everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness, to the 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.920 current issues facing the black community. In this episode, we're 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.160 going to be discussing marriage and divorce. If you know 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.120 anything about me, that you know that I have traveled 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.840 this journey a couple of times, so I do have 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.520 a little bit of experience in both areas. To say 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:13.600 the least. Joining me today are Melissa and Kevin Fredericks 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.880 from the own docuseries Black Love. Kevin and Melissa have 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.760 been happily married for sixteen years and have a podcast 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.560 called The Love Our Joining them is my friend and 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:31.160 sponsors Sibillymani, who is currently single, and then, of course, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:35.520 the most important person in the room, my husband Rodney, 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.000 is joining us today for the very first time. So 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:47.720 welcome everybody to positively GAM Thanks Gams, so excited. Melissa 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.240 and Kevin. For some of my listeners who may not 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:54.120 be familiar with the show Black Love on Own, tell 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.720 us a little bit about it. Oh yeah, Black Love 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.760 is a showan owned and it kind of follows of 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:05.960 a variety of black couples, of various spectual preferences, ages, 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.760 lengths of marriage, divorce not divorce, and they kind of 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.840 just talk about their love story. I'm listen. I did 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.320 season three, I believe yeah, season three, that is correct. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.520 We were married fifteen years at the time, and I 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.840 believe um when that aired, we're married sixteen years now. 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.400 So it's a great experience to be included, great to 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.200 watch all the stories and you know, just be a 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:33.520 part of something beautiful. Yeah, I thought it was amazing. 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.760 What what made you decide that you were willing to 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.640 be on a show like that though? Because it is 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:46.240 you are talking about your personal experiences. I would say, 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.880 for me, I strongly believe that there's healing and help 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.240 and transparency. It's just something that I kind of lived 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.440 my life on. And the reason why is because a 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.600 lot of our story and some of the things we've 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.480 been shared on black level, I felt like I was alone. Listen, 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:06.920 I was out here struggling in marriage, struggling and motherhood, 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.919 struggling in womanhood. To be honest, like make it brought 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.079 to Melissa's struggling period, and I was a mother and 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.680 I was married, And it wasn't until I started to 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.600 share some of my own struggles that I recognized there 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.040 were so many people, so many women that were like 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.680 me too, girl, me too? Girl, Oh girl, me too? 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:28.920 And I was like, are you serious? Why is no 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.360 one talking about this? Here? I am on this boat 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.560 feeling like I'm alone and isolated, and there's so much shame, 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.160 feeling like you're the only one going through this. And 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.080 then as soon as you speak up, there's so many 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.600 people on the boat with you. We just all silent 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:46.200 and struggling, not even together really, And so I just 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.600 felt like doing the show sharing, you know, the beauty 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.160 of black love the beauty of our story, but also, 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.600 you know, sharing some things that aren't so beautiful, but 0:03:55.720 --> 0:03:57.960 hoping that you know, we could shed light on other 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.360 people's lives and say, hey, we went through that too 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.120 and we were able to get on the other side. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.720 What about now, simple? Are you familiar with the show? 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.600 I am not. This is my first introduction to it. 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:14.480 I find it to be very interesting, very therapeutic. The 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.040 clips that I have had an opportunity to watch. Yeah, 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.200 what about you, Kevin? Because I know Rodeny you probably 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.560 have not because I've asked you to watch it with me, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.880 and now we've watched it together a couple of times. 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:31.760 Did you okay? All right? I don't. I don't. I 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.280 don't remember that. No credit over here? How did you 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.520 feel about being on the show, Kevin? Because it just, 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:39.840 to be honest, it just seems like more of a 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.640 woman thing. So it's always good for me when I 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.160 see black men engaged in this kind of conversation too, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.080 because I think it's really really important. Yeah, I think 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.400 you know, Melissa and I have a podcast of our 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.000 podcast where we talk about life, love, marriage, and pursue 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.960 of happiness, and we you know, we often are interested 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.200 in these types of stories outside of our Even before 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.360 we were on the show, we watched the previous seasons. 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.520 We just thought it was a great show. And you know, 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.359 like many other black people, we like to see positive 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.280 reflections of love. And I think one thing the show does, 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:15.480 even you know, really well is some couples have traumatic stories, 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:18.760 some are very positive, some have you know, went through difficulties. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.479 Some even divorced after the show, and even on their 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.920 social media they've even been um positive, even in that 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.960 transition from married to co parenting or whatever. And I 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.080 just think it's a I can't think of another show 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.880 that had so much representation of love that wasn't like 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.560 a TV sitcom, and even that's only usually one family. 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.920 So Melissa and I we watched pretty much every episode 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.479 together of the previous seasons. We love it. Yeah, I 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.480 really love it too. How did you guys meet? Depending 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.640 on who you'll ask, you'll get a very different story. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:54.679 I'll tell you the truth, um, Melissa, Melissa. Melissa Kevin 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.159 is a comedian too, so we gotta take that because 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:00.920 he's been a lot of y'all list of lies. That's 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.520 all she does when it's about this story. We met 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.760 on the first day of eleventh grade and Miss Chapman's 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.960 US history class, Melissa was sitting there. It was the 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.720 second to last role. She was in the backseat because 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.400 I know it's the truth. I know the truth. You 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.600 couldn't have a lot of this clear. I came up 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:20.880 and I sat probably about four desks in front of her. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:22.559 I went to her role. When I saw her beauty, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.640 I was attracted to it. I sat down. I was 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.359 eyeing her, and another dude handed me a note and 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.279 was like, Yo, could you hand this to that girl 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.760 back there? And it was Melissa, And I was like, dang, 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.119 he beat me to the punch, handed her a note. 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.800 She opened it, looked at it, closed it back, and 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.400 never looked at him. And I was like, oh, so 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.880 you're telling me there's a chance, And I feel like 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.000 I fell in love with her right then. Took me 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.520 about six seven months to actually convince her to date me. 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.560 I had all her home girls and all her classes 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.640 petitioning for me, girls on the track team in every period. 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.880 I had a whole school of black girls campaigning for me, 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:04.960 and eventually this is the last part of the story, 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.040 but it's also the truth. Her cousin was the one 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:08.640 that put me over the edge because she still was 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.040 not trying to date me. So he's like, come on, couse, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.280 cousin named Tony, come on, couse, come on man, my boy, 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.360 blah blah blah, just dating me. She grabbed my hand. 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.640 She's like, okay, Tony, I will date him. Are you 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.760 happy now? And through my hand, And that was May 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.400 thousand and we've been together ever since I was twenty 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:31.640 years ago. That right there is just really really amazing 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:37.480 to me because if I'm not mistaken, you guys have 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:44.600 been together and have never like dated or experienced any nothing. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:50.240 No breakups, no breakups, no separations, no time off, no PTO, 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:56.280 no vacation, no mental health days, no hall passed straight 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:02.080 married for well, dating into engagement into married. Since that day, 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.760 she tried to break over me in college. One time 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.120 I was walking up to her dorm and she was 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.320 talking bad about me to her roommate and the door 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:11.680 was open, so I don't know if she was doing 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.000 it on purpose, but I heard her and she was like, 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:15.960 I was like, are you okay? She was like, well, 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.080 I'm glad you're here. I'm sick of listen, sick of 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:19.880 that you hanging out your homeboy, and I feel like 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.600 you need a break. And I was like, okay, so 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.280 what I'm gonna do is go back to my side 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.040 of campus and I'll see you tomorrow. And that was it. 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.720 I went back to my room and the next day 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.280 I acted like she never said that. She never mentioned 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:37.520 it again, and we just kept on chucking. You know, Rodney, 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:41.120 what do you say about that? Because I mean, like, Okay, 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:45.160 I've been married four times. Rodney is my fourth husband, 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:50.160 but there have been numerous relationships in between over the years. 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:54.440 So the fact that you guys have been married never day, 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:59.280 that other people never experienced other people in any way 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:04.440 is just like, I don't even know what to say 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:09.480 to that. It's amazing. That's not the typical story, but 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.959 it's an amazing story. I was gonna say. We are 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.479 well aware more and more that this is not the norm, 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.280 and we don't expect it to be the norm. It 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:21.400 is very on the outskirts of normality. It exists mostly 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.760 in Hollywood. People you know, fall in love in high 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.959 school and stay together. So we are well aware, and 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:29.160 you know, when we do our podcast, we lead with 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.280 that knowing that our situation is not the norm, you know. 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.960 And when you say Hollywood, you mean Hollywood like on 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.920 the movie screen, you know what I mean, like Hollywood 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:42.640 for real? No, I mean like literally movies, not actual life. 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.839 I don't think most people you know have a girlfriend 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.080 that they meet in in eleventh grade and they stay 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.200 with him for twenty years without breaking up. Ever, what 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.000 is one thing in marriage that singles need to know 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.840 before they say I do? What would you say to 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:03.280 that civil I would say singles need to recognize that 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:09.400 life is full of valleys, and without those valleys, there 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:13.400 can be no hills, no mole hills, and no mountains, 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:19.000 and so perseverance and communication are key. And that's my 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.040 take from a look back. I would just say that 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.880 make sure you're ready for the commitment because it's work, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:30.160 and it's not it's not the Hollywood version. It's it's real. 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.360 It's real work, and you're gonna have to learn some 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.199 things about yourself that you didn't know existed, and you're 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.000 gonna have to face some truths about yourself. And if 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.320 you're ready to do that work, then I say go 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:47.880 for it. But if you're not, then maybe just think 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:52.080 about being in a relationship a little longer. Well, we 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.000 were just in the kitchen. We were just in the 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:58.400 kitchen talking to Will. That's our favorite spot and things 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.440 that he said. Uh huh, I've met him before. I 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.920 just wanted to put that out there. I have met 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.800 Will Smith. Yeah. Just I was gonna work it into 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.080 the conversation only if you brought it up, and you 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:17.840 did so that's hilarious, Okay. Well, and what he said 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:24.120 was marriage is a spiritual discipline to force us to 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:30.920 heal our own wounds and learn how to love, right, 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:34.839 he said, because most people don't actually just don't know 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.199 anything about what love really is and how to love. 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.240 And when he said that, I had to really think 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:46.200 about it, because I mean, you know, you really don't. 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.400 So when you think about the did you all read 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:53.160 the five love languages symbol? You read it, right, Rodney, 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:56.920 you read it. So what would you say, are is 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.640 your love language? I'm gonna start with you, Rodney. What 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:05.160 is or love language? Quality time? Quality time? For me? 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.960 I think that words of fairly empty without demonstration, right, 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.720 And that demonstration for me comes through time, spending time, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:18.160 sharing things together, doing things together. So yeah, for me, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.320 from that list, it would definitely be quality time. For me, 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.640 it's physical touch. I'm all about the physical like that. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.640 That is really really important to me. What about you, 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.240 civil I would say it's both of what you and 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:36.760 Rodney have. For me, it's quality time because you can 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.199 give lip service all day long, but there's nothing like 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:45.520 spending the intimate time together, not necessarily physical, but that 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:51.040 intimate connection with your partner. In addition, physical is very 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.520 important to me. I can live with not having the 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.960 gifts and you know, the other languages, but the physical 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.200 and the quality of tea time, it's very important to me. Yeah, 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.440 I would. I would say the physical and intimacy. The 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:13.200 intimacy that doesn't necessarily mean physical, right, but those two 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.640 things are really important to me. What about you, Kevin 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:21.480 and Melissa? So mine is quality time? Quality time gang 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.040 over here and I would say that for me. It's 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:26.880 so funny. We were just on some other show the 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.280 other day and we were kind of going through our 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.200 definition of love and one of the hosts said this 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:33.800 to me, and I was like, that's true for me, 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.559 and I didn't realize it. I define love in terms 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.120 of safety. So if I feel comfortable and safe with you, 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:43.800 to give me or to give you like my heart. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.520 Then that's when I that's love to me And the 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.800 only way that I get there, I realized for me 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:53.160 is through quality time and specifically, like let's talk. Let's 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.559 have a conversation. Tell me about your fears, tell me 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.920 about your dreams, tell me about what you're afraid of, 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.679 what your ultimate goals are, Like, let's sit and talk 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.000 all the deep down, dirty stuff. Let's have this conversation. 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.679 And in that you're building trust, you're building rapport, you're 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.920 building all of those things that helped me. That are 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:15.280 my definitions of love and so you. For me, it's 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.520 far and above, I mean just far and away quality time. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.640 The second one would be acts of service, which I 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.800 feel like that's a very seasonal type of situation for me. 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.880 I feel like when my kids were young, that's always 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.080 very important, Like helped me around this house. You don't 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.080 see these dishes, you don't see it as flow. You 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:33.800 don't want to pick up a room, you won't do nothing. 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.960 As I've gotten older and my kids have gotten older, 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.400 the gap between the At one time they were very 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.040 neck and neck, but as my kids have gotten older, 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.440 the gap between those two have definitely expanded. So it's 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.840 far and away. Yeah, quality time. For me, it's physical 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.120 touch and words of affirmation. I feel like they're very 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:56.040 close to each other. I need to be hugged, love kissed, 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.240 hold me, touch my hand, put your foot on me, 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.800 let me feel your cold tosy like, you know, let's 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.360 be close. You know, I was all And that's not 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.640 even just with Melissa's with my children as well. I'm 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:10.720 the very affectionate person hugs and kisses, you know. Well 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.640 with one of my sons. The other ones, his love 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.600 language is not physical touch, so we we don't do 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.960 that with him. Uh. But the words of affirmation, I um, 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:28.600 I need to be verbally hugged, so to speak. Uh. 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.960 Otherwise I feel like, you know, God, I don't know. 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.160 I feel unloved, especially if I'm working on something that 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.200 is very difficult for me, you know, like you know. 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.120 One of the things Melissa and I've realized, the the 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.120 benefit of being together for a long time is you 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.400 know each other very well. The drawback is that when 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.640 you're together for twenty years, you really, you know, imagine 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.240 the person you were when you were sixteen and the 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.480 person you were at thirty six. They're very different people, 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.800 you know. But We've had to go through all those 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:01.560 changes together. So that require is loving a person differently 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.440 as they go through those changes. In Melissa's case, you know, 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.160 no kids to one kid to two kids, to working 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.360 in Corporate America to quitting Corporate America, her parents divorced. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.240 All of those instances had changes in her personality and 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.280 I had to love her through those and I have 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.200 to change for her as well. And when I'm doing 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.400 something that's very difficult for me, if you acknowledge that 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.400 and then it's more it's easier for me to continue 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.480 to do that. So for the last two years or so, 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:30.640 I've been working on being more vulnerable, uh, fighting the 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:32.600 way I grew up, which men are strong and we 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.320 don't show weakness and we don't do that and you 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.760 and you don't break. And then Melissa was like, I 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.680 need you to break. I need you. I need to 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.920 see some fear in you. And I was like, I 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:44.840 don't know how to show that. I didn't know how 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:46.880 to show her that, literally because I didn't know how 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.680 to show it to myself. So Agam, you were saying 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:54.240 a little bit earlier about love is a spiritual um discipline. 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:57.480 I think that's the phase we're in. So much of 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.440 what we're doing now is the self work to combat 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.600 our childhood and things like that. And we realize how 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.560 if you don't do that self work, it shows up 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.399 as relationship problems in your marriage if left unchecked, and 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.600 it's really hard to come to combat those deepest, darkest 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.119 parts of you. Uh. And they really have nothing to 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.240 do with your spouse in that sense. It is completely 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:21.439 you know. I mean, they do in the sense that, 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.560 unchecked it would affect your relationship, but it's not your 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.520 your spouse's fault or responsibility to do that, so, you know. 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.399 And listening to you guys talk about the length of 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.919 time that you all have have been together, I realized 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:40.959 that Rodney and I have known each other for a really, 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:45.560 really long time, because this is actually the second go 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:51.639 round for us. We dated years ago and then broke 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:56.560 up and I married somebody else, and that I married 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:03.120 somebody else twice. Why didn't you really think about that? 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.240 Was like, hold on, let me know what it one 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.840 or two? I can't remember. I can't just just once, 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:17.360 just once, just once. I mean, I didn't know the 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.480 marriages and breakups and the folks in between have gotten 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.919 the little uh muddled. We've known each other for a 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.840 really long time. But when you were talking about, you know, 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:32.040 the intimacy and being able to share with one another 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:37.359 and and be completely comfortable and honest with one another, 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.000 that is one of the most important things to me 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.399 in the relationship that I have with you right now, babe, 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.000 because I feel like that was one thing that I 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.960 didn't have that was so important and all of my 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:55.919 other marriages. So Rannie and I dated and then I 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:58.240 don't know how much you guys know about me, but 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:03.119 thirty something years a go, yeah, and I had well, 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.520 we both had some you know, we both had problems 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:12.480 with addiction, and my inability to get my ship together 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.280 is one of the reasons that led us to to 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:20.240 break up. And it's really kind of interfered with that 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:27.359 relationship and my second marriage because of drug addiction, so, 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.960 you know, and thinking about all that and recognizing that 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:35.240 back then like now we've come to back together and 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:41.040 we are totally different people, thank God. And people think about, well, 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:45.480 you know, do you feel like you missed time being together, 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.480 like what would have been? Do you wish that you 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:51.439 hadn't we couldn't have been together back then? It wouldn't 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.760 have been successful, right, not at all. So we met. 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:58.320 I was in recovery and she wasn't so well. I 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.919 was trying to get there, but that's a that's a 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:08.159 recipe for disaster already from the onset, so it was 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.359 destined to fail. But we tried. You know, we we 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.000 cared about each other, and I cared about her struggle, 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:16.959 and I really didn't know it first, you know, she 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.199 hid it from me real well, but then when it 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.960 became obvious, I tried to help her in her struggle. 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.640 But yeah, it just it just didn't work. And I 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.399 was starting to feel like it was wearing on my 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.640 own sobriety, so we had to we had to move on. 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.440 But when we came came back together some thirty years later, 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.040 she was a totally different person and I was too. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.479 I mean, the people with that we were couldn't have 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.359 sustained the relationship at that point anyway. So it was 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:49.240 good that we came back together and it was like 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.879 I was meeting her for the first time, but she 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:55.840 was the person that I believe she could be thirty 0:20:55.920 --> 0:21:00.280 years ago, which was which was amazing to me. And 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.720 you know, it was just my trials and tribulations had 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:08.600 made me someone different too, So it was like we 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.840 were two totally different people by that time, and it 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.400 was it was, it was. It worked out really well 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.400 for us, and even to yeah, even to this day, 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.200 were still learning new things about each other, were still 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:24.240 growing in the relationship some eight nine years later, and 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:26.440 you know that's on a daily basis for us. We 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.760 still talk about our stuff on a regular basis, and 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.119 and that helps us to like stay fresh and and 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.840 to stay grounded in the relationships. I've been married like 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.240 four times. Rodney has never been married. I've never been married. 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.119 I'm sixty four years old. We got married when I 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:49.680 was sixty mm hmmm, yeah, so my parents were together 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.600 for sixty something years, but it was they argued, and 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:58.760 the marriage wasn't really what I considered loving. So I 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.840 really didn't have a great iministration of what marriage was. 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:03.760 And then most of the people that I talked to 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.640 that we're married weren't really happy. So I had a 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:13.280 very distorted concept and image of marriage. So I I 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:15.439 didn't see that for me, and I was a bit 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.240 of a selfish guy. I wanted to do what I 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:20.159 wanted to do when I wanted to do it, and 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.159 you did that for many many I did that for 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:26.120 many many years. Yes, and you had a good old 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.199 time and it worked for me. You know, I didn't. 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:30.679 I didn't. I didn't want to drag people into my 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:33.600 stuff and have them, you know, and be committed to 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:39.919 someone that I wasn't really ready to honor. Right. I 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.240 didn't give you props for that, but though, babe, I 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.919 give you props that you you waited so long and 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:49.200 you didn't just get married because it was the thing 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:58.440 to do. Yeah, it was the thing to do. Yeah. 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.360 Now simple was my sponsor and my my good, good, good, 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:06.520 good good girlfriend. So you know, you and I what 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.960 we're here from Melissa and Kevin that that has not 0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:14.439 been our story at all. So talk to me about 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:20.360 you because you're actually Muslim and you've been married. Now 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:23.040 you said you were married three and a half times. 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:27.280