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Speaker 1: Hi, Steve Fishman here, creator of The Burden as well

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Speaker 1: as the number one true crime podcast My Friend The

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Speaker 1: Serial Killer. For those of you who liked The Burden,

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Speaker 1: I have good news. Season two starts August seventh. It's

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Speaker 1: a series called The Burden Empire on Blood and it's

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Speaker 1: the director's cut of the true crime classic Empire on Blood,

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Speaker 1: which reached number one on the charts when it debuted

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Speaker 1: half a dozen years ago. Then the fat cat funders

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Speaker 1: abandon it. I wrangled it back and now I'm thrilled

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Speaker 1: to share this story of a man who fought the

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Speaker 1: law for two decades, fought against the Bronx's top homicide

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Speaker 1: prosecutor and a detective sometimes known as the Louis Scarcela

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Speaker 1: of the Bronx. It's all coming to you August seventh,

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Previously on The Burden, we get on.

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Speaker 1: The plane take off, and the plane it's air pocket.

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Speaker 1: Holy Christ, gotta take your jackals off because.

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Speaker 2: We may go down and you gotta swim. He confessed.

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Speaker 1: This guy named Derek Hamilton, who's an ex con kind

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Speaker 1: of like a jail house lawyer.

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Speaker 3: So he gives me shabacca chaqueurs for forty information that

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Speaker 3: would substantiate that he was a crooked.

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Speaker 2: God, I believe everybody wants to confess.

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Speaker 3: Y'all understand I didn't commit a crime. So in my mind,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, this is gonna be worked out. I came

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Speaker 3: into the precinct. You asked me where I was. I

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Speaker 3: told you where I was. You asked me if I

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Speaker 3: had any proof. I gave you the numbers of the

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Speaker 3: people who I was with. You call these people so

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Speaker 3: and you have no witnesses saying that they saw me

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Speaker 3: shooting anybody. So I should walk out the priest and

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Speaker 3: right there incomes Detective Lewis Scarsella. He was young, hat,

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Speaker 3: you know, his hair like one of Johnson Walter type looking.

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Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. He just struck me as

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Speaker 3: somebody really flamboyant. He immediately comes in aggressive toward me,

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Speaker 3: telling me, I know who you are. I know you're

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Speaker 3: a drug dealer. I know they're drug dealers. I know

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Speaker 3: all y'all involved together, and you killed them. I immediately

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Speaker 3: was offended. I lost my temper and I cursed him out,

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Speaker 3: told him fuck you, and he started banging on the

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Speaker 3: table saying I came here to help you, but you're

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Speaker 3: gonna go upstate.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna be in jail for the rest of your

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Speaker 3: life because you're an asshole. Just remember I gave you

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Speaker 3: this chance to help yourself. I ignored it and he left.

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Speaker 3: The first time I'm before the judge, the lawyer says, well,

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Speaker 3: because I was saying, Joe, we need to explain, and

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Speaker 3: he's like, no, no, no talk because we already have a confession.

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Speaker 3: And I said, I don't have no confession. And he said,

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Speaker 3: you made a statement to the police. I said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I told the police where I was. I told him

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Speaker 3: I wasn't there. I never confessed with no murder. And

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Speaker 3: he said, oh no, no, not the first police, but

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Speaker 3: the second police. You confessed to him. And I was like,

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Speaker 3: are you crazy? I never made no confession.

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Speaker 2: Shabacca Chicord was found guilty of a double homicide and

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Speaker 2: received two terms of twenty to life to run consecutively.

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Speaker 1: Feel your body shaking.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna turn me. I'm gonna turn on you. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the Burden. I'm Dax delan Ross and I'm Steve Fishman.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, the actual Innocence Team.

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Speaker 3: So what's the detective's.

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Speaker 1: Job to do everything he can under the law with

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Speaker 1: the tools he has given to get the confession.

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Speaker 3: He could be a gentle soul, he could be an

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Speaker 3: understanding soul, and he could be a gorilla too. It

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Speaker 3: takes a hell of a detective to know how to

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Speaker 3: do that.

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Speaker 4: Yore.

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Speaker 3: Imagine if all of us was in the law library together.

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Speaker 3: Imagine what we could do. We'd be able to run

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Speaker 3: it like it's a real law firm. And that's when

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Speaker 3: it hit me, we got to expose him.

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Speaker 1: You gotta hold old time.

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Speaker 3: There's a jail house folklore right that says that the

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Speaker 3: best jail house law clerks or lawyers can never get

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Speaker 3: themselves out. They will get everybody else out, but they

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Speaker 3: can never get themselves out right, And it's true. That

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Speaker 3: was one of those myths that I wanted to break.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I bet I got to be able

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Speaker 3: to get myself out.

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Speaker 2: Sabacca Chakor had a problem. He was twenty three years

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Speaker 2: old and on the hook for two life sentences for

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Speaker 2: a double homicide. He insists he didn't commit. For him,

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Speaker 2: studying the law would become a necessity.

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Speaker 1: But being in jail is not generally conducive to the

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Speaker 1: contemplation of a subject as complicated as the law.

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Speaker 3: I went through Rikers Island in the eighties and the nineties,

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Speaker 3: it was like, could you even survive full to capacity?

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Speaker 3: It might be a week before you got to a cell.

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Speaker 3: In between that time, you were sleeping on the bullpen

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Speaker 3: on the floor because if you didn't know how to fight,

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Speaker 3: you wasn't going to get a bench. So the environment

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Speaker 3: was extremely violent.

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Speaker 2: Chabaca was sent to Auburn Correctional Facility, a maximum security

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Speaker 2: prison in upstate New York where only the most dangerous

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Speaker 2: criminals are sent. He was put in solitary, but for

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Speaker 2: Shabaka it was a blessing in disguise. It actually gave

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Speaker 2: him the chance to work on his first appeal.

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Speaker 3: I really believed on my first appeal, I was going

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Speaker 3: to get out.

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Speaker 2: But at that time, Shebaca just didn't have what it took.

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Speaker 3: After I blew my appeal, I felt like, Okay, they

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Speaker 3: don't want to let me go. They're gonna keep me here.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna be a territory. You've seen how Rodney King

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Speaker 3: got beat that that's an everyday occurrence in prison. I'm

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Speaker 3: not gonna be a victim to that. From the very

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Speaker 3: first time that an officers struck me, I retaliated immediately.

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Speaker 3: I swung back. I just went ballistics, swinging on everybody,

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Speaker 3: trying to disarm them, take their stick swinging back. Instead

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Speaker 3: of wanting to beat me up, they just wanted to

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Speaker 3: put me in the cell, Like, put in the cell

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Speaker 3: and close the door, like this guy's crazy. Like I

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Speaker 3: wanted them to have that fear, and it worked. I

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Speaker 3: purposely was just angry at the world that I was here.

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Speaker 3: I felt like I had been red roaded, which I had,

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Speaker 3: but I also felt like helpless.

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Speaker 2: Time passed, things calmed a bit. Sabaki's reputation as a fighter,

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Speaker 2: it got around. Everyone left him alone, including the guards.

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Speaker 2: But fighting that's only one side of Shabaka. Really, He's

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Speaker 2: an intellectual, an introvert, kind of a bookworm.

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Speaker 3: When I was a solitary, I read fantasy books, novels,

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Speaker 3: technical books, so I was always good by myself.

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Speaker 2: Shebaca was in solitary for a while, but once he

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Speaker 2: got out, he did what anybody does. He started to

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Speaker 2: build a life for himself. He got a job in

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Speaker 2: the mess hall, he joined the boxing and football teams,

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Speaker 2: and he even made some friends. I mean, after all,

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Speaker 2: even when you're in prison, you still have to live

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Speaker 2: a life. But then one day, another prisoner just a

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Speaker 2: few cells down, struck up a conversation with.

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Speaker 3: Him, talking to him, and I'm like, hey, what's up?

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Speaker 3: He said to me, Yo, man, I'm getting ready to

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Speaker 3: go home. Right. Of course, part of me is happy

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Speaker 3: for him, but part of me is miserable for me, Dax.

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Speaker 1: At that moment, Chabaca's been in prison how long?

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Speaker 2: Ten years?

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Speaker 3: I don't know what if the word jaded is right,

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Speaker 3: but because here are guys who actually committed a crime

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Speaker 3: and are going home, and I'm a guy who didn't

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Speaker 3: commit a crime, and I'm not going home. And he

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Speaker 3: kind of like left me feeling a little depressed, feeling

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Speaker 3: like how do I beat this? How do I get out?

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Speaker 2: It was around this time that Schabacca remembered the conversation

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Speaker 2: he'd had about a decade before with another prisoner. His

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Speaker 2: name Derek Hamilton. You met him in episode one.

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Speaker 3: Derek is one of the first people that I met

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Speaker 3: when I first got arrested.

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Speaker 2: When Derek and Schabacca met, Derek started making one point

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Speaker 2: very clear.

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Speaker 5: And I'm telling him fuck your lawyer man. These guys

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Speaker 5: don't work hard.

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Speaker 1: Derek was known as a genius when it came to

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Speaker 1: the law, completely self taught and very motivated. At that moment,

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Speaker 1: he's fighting his own.

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Speaker 2: Murder conviction, and Derek he had some words of advice

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Speaker 2: for Shabaka.

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Speaker 5: You gotta go to lay library, you gotta study. You

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Speaker 5: got to be the most smartest guy in that court.

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Speaker 5: When where you're going, you better work on you better work,

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Speaker 5: you better work.

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Speaker 3: I remember him telling me you can't trust lawyers. Lawyers

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Speaker 3: are doing a job. They don't care whether you get

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Speaker 3: out or not, because they're going to get paid either way.

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Speaker 3: You are the only one who cares if you're getting out.

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Speaker 2: As clearing director as Derek's message was, it still took

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Speaker 2: a while for it to sink in. But now years later,

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Speaker 2: Shebaka is ready.

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Speaker 3: I said, Okay, I want to get out of jail.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to work in the law library where

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Speaker 3: I can be around a book set all the time.

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Speaker 1: And lucky for Shabaka, every New York prison has to

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Speaker 1: have a law library. It's a state mandate. So Shebacca

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Speaker 1: became a law clerk at Auburn.

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Speaker 2: Every morning Shebacca went off to study. On his way

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Speaker 2: to the law library, he would walk through the yard

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Speaker 2: wearing his state greens, carrying his papers in a net bag.

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Speaker 2: Eventually he even enrolled at Cornell University. It wasn't long

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Speaker 2: before as professor took a liking to him. One of

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Speaker 2: them even offered him a teacher's assistant position. But for Shabaka,

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Speaker 2: there was always only one goal freedom.

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Speaker 3: I always thought I was with a couple hole, even

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Speaker 3: when everybody else gave up. And I remember writing people

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Speaker 3: and they was like, when you come at home, and

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Speaker 3: I said, probably another two years, because I always felt

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Speaker 3: like I'm right on the verge of getting out.

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Speaker 2: The factory. Means that with all of his appeals denied,

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Speaker 2: he's running out of legal options. And it just so

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Speaker 2: happens that at that exact moment, whispers start to spread

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Speaker 2: through the yard, whispers of someone knew who's arrived, someone special.

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Speaker 3: That's when Derek came to Auburn.

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Speaker 1: Derek Hamilton, that's the guy who urged Shabaka to take

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Speaker 1: the law into his own hands.

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Speaker 2: Even before Derek arrived at Auburn, he had quite a

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Speaker 2: reputation among the inmates. Nelson Cruz he'd heard of Derek, this.

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Speaker 4: God like god when it comes to criminal law.

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Speaker 2: Nelson's another prisoner at Auburn.

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Speaker 4: Everybody loves him and knows him, and people that don't

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Speaker 4: know him hears about him, and everybody want to just

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Speaker 4: work with him because all they think about is freedom. Freedom, freedom, freedom,

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Speaker 4: and especially if you're here for a crime you didn't commit.

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Speaker 1: So Nelson's thinking freedom. But I imagine that Shabaka, He's

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Speaker 1: got to be thinking relief. At last, he has a

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Speaker 1: partner as devoted to the law as he is.

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Speaker 5: The Lord was my girlfriend. It was all I had.

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Speaker 5: It was all I had. I had to love it.

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Speaker 2: This is the ang way the freedom coming up. Sabacca

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Speaker 2: and Derek reunited at Auburn. Get busy in the law library.

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Speaker 2: Stay with us, Okay, Steve, Let's pause for a moment. Sabacca,

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Speaker 2: as we've learned now, is adamant about his innocence. But

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Speaker 2: let's take a moment and look at the crime he

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Speaker 2: says he didn't commit.

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Speaker 1: Here are the essentials. So Schebacca was convicted of a

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Speaker 1: double homicide. There were no fingerprints, no murder weapon. There

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Speaker 1: was supposed lee and I witness, but his story turns

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Speaker 1: out to be a bit changeable. Still, the cops aren't

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Speaker 1: backing off. They like Shabaka for the crime. After all,

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Speaker 1: he had a rap sheet, he'd been a drug dealer,

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Speaker 1: he'd been in prison for a violent crime. You don't

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Speaker 1: need to be Sherlock Holmes. For the cops, Sabacca fit

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Speaker 1: the profile.

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Speaker 2: And Steve there is another key piece of evidence against Schabacco.

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Speaker 2: Remember Scarcella claimed that Sabacca did confess to him. That's right.

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Speaker 1: It turns out it's not exactly a confession, but it

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Speaker 1: is a very incriminating statement, and it is possible that's

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Speaker 1: what sealed his fate. Here's what Scarcella claimed, Shebacca said

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Speaker 1: to him, you know what happened, You have it all.

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Speaker 1: They were going to kill me. They deserve to die.

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Speaker 2: That would be what would convince me if I now

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Speaker 2: know that this person was a drug dealer who's already

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Speaker 2: served time for a violent offense. All I would really

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Speaker 2: need to hear is a statement provided to me by

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Speaker 2: a very reputable detective. And this is it.

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Speaker 1: They are really powerful words. Listen, they provide a motive,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, maybe that sealed his fate. What we know

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Speaker 1: for sure is that nobody gets up to present Shobacca's side.

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Speaker 1: Shobacca doesn't testify, his alibi witnesses don't testify, but Scarcela

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Speaker 1: does testify, and he reads that incriminating statement to the jury.

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Speaker 1: Of course, from Schebaca's point of view, its awn nonsense. Remember,

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Speaker 1: Sabacca claims he never made any statement. He didn't even

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Speaker 1: know there was a statement until his lawyer told.

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Speaker 3: Him, And that was the first time that I realized

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Speaker 3: that there was a statement from Scarcella, because I had

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Speaker 3: never made any statement.

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Speaker 2: It's now twenty years into his sentence. In Schebacca, he's

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Speaker 2: at Auburn and still insisting that he never gave a

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Speaker 2: statement that he's innocent.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, we'd just gotten out that Auburn now hosts brilliant

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Speaker 1: legal minds. Another prisoner, Danny ringcon He immediately sees the potential.

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Speaker 4: We all have something in common, which was that we

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Speaker 4: were wrong by a system.

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Speaker 1: Danny was convicted of four murders, which he says he

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Speaker 1: didn't do. One day in the yard, he approaches Shabaka.

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Speaker 3: So Danny says, yo, imagine if all of us was

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Speaker 3: in a law library together, Imagine what we could do.

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Speaker 3: We'd be able to run it like it's a real law.

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Speaker 2: Firm, a real law firm in prison. Well, the firm's office,

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Speaker 2: that's the law library. Let me set the scene for you, Steve,

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Speaker 2: a corrections officer sits on a raised platform looking down

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Speaker 2: over the prisoners, not unlike a judge surveiling them. There

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Speaker 2: are a few worn out computers, no Internet, of course,

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Speaker 2: and then there are the legal books, and there are

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Speaker 2: lots of them. They line the walls. So what happens

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Speaker 2: is when they come into the law library, these convicted murderers,

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Speaker 2: they push together four wooden desks and they huddle around

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Speaker 2: this makeshift conference table and they get to work. They've

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Speaker 2: got their own filing cabinet, a whiteboard, and lots of

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Speaker 2: open law books scattered all around them. And joining them

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Speaker 2: at the table a young man named Nelson Cruz, the

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Speaker 2: one who called Derek a god. When it comes to criminal.

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Speaker 4: Law man, you gotta be serus. This is servious. There's

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Speaker 4: no game there, this is freedom there.

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Speaker 2: Like everyone else around that table, Nelson is also in

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Speaker 2: for murder, and like everyone else, he claims he didn't

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Speaker 2: do it.

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Speaker 1: And of course, the firm's intellectual leader is there at

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Speaker 1: the head of the table, Derek Hamilton.

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Speaker 2: Don't tip the kool aid.

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Speaker 5: They're gonna come back in August, some ridiculous, stupid stuff.

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Speaker 2: Don't go at it.

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Speaker 1: I can imagine Derek scribbling rules of procedure on that whiteboard.

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Speaker 5: If you want to know how to do it, I'm

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Speaker 5: gonna show you. This is how you write emotion. This

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Speaker 5: is how you respond to something. This is how you

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Speaker 5: tack something. This is how your mindset be. How do

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Speaker 5: you get a hearing? How you don't get a hearing.

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Speaker 3: We would sit there like we was in class, going

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Speaker 3: over everything. We analyzed every piece of evidence, We analyzed cases.

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Speaker 3: This is how no Derek cases how know Danny's case.

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Speaker 3: This is how they know my case because we would

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Speaker 3: pick it apart.

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Speaker 2: Then Schabaca recalls that one they had a visitor with

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Speaker 2: his own legal problem.

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Speaker 3: He was a guy from upstate who natural life with

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Speaker 3: no possibility of parole, so he was never coming home.

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Speaker 2: Shabaka, Danny and Derek, they all liked e.

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Speaker 3: We sat down with him and we said, okay, let

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Speaker 3: me see your paperwork. And we looked at me and said, wow,

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Speaker 3: this has to be in in three days and you

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Speaker 3: don't have nothing done. He had three issues argued on

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Speaker 3: his appeal, so we each took an issue. Danny did one,

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Speaker 3: Derek did one, and I did one. And it took

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Speaker 3: us probably all day and all night, or one day,

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Speaker 3: and then the next day all day and all night.

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Speaker 3: But by the third day we all came in. We

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Speaker 3: clamped it all together into one appeal, put a table

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Speaker 3: of contents with it, and said here, here's your emotion,

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Speaker 3: because we knew if he didn't get that in, his

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Speaker 3: chances of getting out was forever going to be closed.

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Speaker 1: You can hear the excitement in Schebacca's voice. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: could really do this, Maybe they can use the law

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Speaker 1: to fight the law. It's like they realize at that

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Speaker 1: moment they have skills, maybe even power. This case didn't work,

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Speaker 1: he lost his appeal, but it's like this is an

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Speaker 1: inspiration to these budding law partners.

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Speaker 3: And that's when I really started to say, like, wow,

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Speaker 3: we didn't even plan that. So I knew that if

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Speaker 3: we did plan we would get a lot more done.

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Speaker 3: And that's when we really started saying, Yo, look we

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Speaker 3: can do this actual innocystem. Let's start really putting this together.

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Speaker 1: This actual innocence thing. So the team's timing extremely lucky.

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Speaker 1: Shebaca has all but exhausted in his state appeals in

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Speaker 1: terms of getting out of jail. He's basically in a

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Speaker 1: hopeless situation. But then Derek files emotion and the appeals

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Speaker 1: court rules in Derek's favor. It says that a credible

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Speaker 1: claim of actual innocence can't be ignored even if all

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Speaker 1: appeals are exhausted. The ruling gives Shabaka one last shot

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Speaker 1: in state court. If he can make a credible claim

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Speaker 1: of actual innocence, the merits of his case must be heard.

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Speaker 3: Look, man, this is our team right here, just the

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Speaker 3: AI team. We're gonna work these cases and we're gonna

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Speaker 3: get out.

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Speaker 1: Let's think about what's happening here. You've got this ragtag

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Speaker 1: group of convicted murderers, not a college degree among them,

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Speaker 1: and they're fighting the Brooklyn District Attorney's office. This is

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Speaker 1: in office with an entire division devoted to beating back

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Speaker 1: any appeal and inmate makes. It's in office with five

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Speaker 1: hundred highly trained prosecutors.

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Speaker 2: And this AI team. They don't have much in the

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Speaker 2: way of technology, they don't have Google, but what they

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Speaker 2: have is something you cannot buy. They are a group

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Speaker 2: of people who are dead, dedicated to a singular cause

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Speaker 2: to win their freedom, and this is a life or

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Speaker 2: death situation for them. So I don't know about you,

346
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Speaker 2: but I wouldn't count them out.

347
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Speaker 1: So back to the AI team. Everyone naturally found their role. Derek,

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Speaker 1: he was the law professor. Stick to what your burden

349
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Speaker 1: of proof is. Everybody knows how.

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Speaker 5: To make emotions, but how many times do you really

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Speaker 5: know what your burden is?

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Speaker 1: Chabacca was a natural an expert at drafting legal documents.

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Speaker 3: I really understood the law like I can interpret it

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Speaker 3: and say, okay, this is right, boy, look.

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Speaker 2: At this, and you might call Danny the public relations officer.

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Speaker 2: He was reaching out to anyone who might help reporters, lawyers,

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Speaker 2: family members.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to coward. I'm not gonna sit down

359
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Speaker 4: and cry because I'm going to rise up. And if

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Speaker 4: I said I didn't commit this crime.

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Speaker 2: And then there's Nelson Cruz. Nelson did whatever was necessary,

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Speaker 2: sort of like an intern. He was the youngest. He

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Speaker 2: drew crime scenes. He also made the coffee in his

364
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: cell and to do it, he used to sock as

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Speaker 2: a strainer.

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Speaker 4: I got a brand new stock. Right. What I do

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Speaker 4: is I poured a coffee in it, and then I

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Speaker 4: poured the water inside the sock. And after I make

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Speaker 4: the coffee, I'll call it. I'm like yo, Bush, I'm done.

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Speaker 2: Bush is Derek's nickname. Together he and Nelson, they m

371
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Speaker 2: Agui rit the Pulley system to deliver the coffee back

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Speaker 2: and forth.

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Speaker 4: A line is made out of our bass sheets. We

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Speaker 4: throw the line and then well, I'll grab it and

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Speaker 4: the hook hook the coffee onto it real nice and

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Speaker 4: be careful he don't spill it, and he'll be pulling

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Speaker 4: the line easily into a cell.

378
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Speaker 1: So Nelson, the intern, his job is to keep Derek fueled.

379
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Speaker 1: Picture it Derek midnight in his cell. He rolls up

380
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Speaker 1: his mattress, puts it on the floor, sits on it

381
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Speaker 1: like it's a chair, and he places his typewriter on

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Speaker 1: the metal frame of his bed and he starts typing

383
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Speaker 1: his motions. He types his own motions and one for Nelson.

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Speaker 4: We had to be drinking all night, no shit or nothing.

385
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 4: A straight black cowboys stout.

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Speaker 1: Yet the AI team, it was now like a brotherhood,

387
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: and they made a promise to one another. Nobody from

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00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: the team was going to be left behind. They'd all

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Speaker 1: fight for each other's freedom, and that's going to be

390
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: very important to one team member, Nelson Cruz.

391
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Speaker 2: The team was growing, flexing its muscles. They even started

392
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Speaker 2: the clinic on the DL. The administration had no idea

393
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Speaker 2: what they were up to.

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Speaker 3: People were dying to get in the class. We had

395
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Speaker 3: twenty five and a wait unless of seventy five more.

396
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 3: Administration was like, what kind of class is this?

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Speaker 1: They never had weight lisses like this Derek Danny Shebaka.

398
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: They analyzed the student's cases. One person Shobacca helped was

399
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Speaker 1: his friend Tone.

400
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: Tone was always getting extra time for minor infractions. Once,

401
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: when he was on parole, he was fifteen minutes late

402
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Speaker 2: for curfew. That landed him back in prison for two years.

403
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: And when he was almost done with those two years,

404
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: he got into a fight and he got two more years.

405
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: This guy did two years for being fifteen minutes late

406
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Speaker 3: on a curfew, Like that makes no sense, and now

407
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Speaker 3: he's got another two years for a fight.

408
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 2: Remember, Danny is the firm's pr rep. He's also an

409
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Speaker 2: expert in writing letters.

410
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 3: I said, Danny, write it up. He wrote a nice

411
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: letter to this guy, sent it to the superintendent the

412
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 3: superintendent dismissed the ticket, right, So I said, this is

413
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 3: step one to a watch. And then I took that

414
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 3: letter and sent it to his parole officer and said

415
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: there's no more basis for the two years he shouldn't

416
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Speaker 3: be in jail. The parole officer that I was cool with,

417
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 3: he said, you're right, you gotta be released. Probably a

418
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: month after we started doing his thing, he was released,

419
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: and Tone came in and crying. He's like, yo, I

420
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 3: can't believe it. They gonna let me go.

421
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: The prison law firm was starting to get results, but.

422
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 2: The question is can they beat the curse of the

423
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: jail house lawyer and get themselves out of jail.

424
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: Which means can they beat Scarcella.

425
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 2: That's after the break.

426
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Speaker 1: All right, Dax, Let's go back in time.

427
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Speaker 2: Long before the AI team was formed, Robert Hill was

428
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 2: transferred to Auburn Correctional He's another important character. You met

429
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 2: him in episode one. It's from talking to Robert Hill

430
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: that Chabaca learned a crucial piece of information.

431
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: Robert Hill had been charged with two murders committed on

432
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: two separate occasions, but there was just one witness. One

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00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: witness for both murders. Her name Teresa Gomez.

434
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: The same witness that Frenchy discovered in that online cigar form,

435
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: the same witness that Louis used over and over.

436
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: A prosecutor wrote that Teresa had a terrible drug addiction.

437
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: His actual words quote, it would be near folly to

438
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: believe anything she said, let alone that she saw two

439
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: murders in two different places. Shabaka is shocked by his discovery,

440
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: and he turns to Robert Hill.

441
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 3: And I tell him, I said, Scarcila's the officer in

442
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 3: your case. And he's like, yeah. I said that's the

443
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: same officer in my case and he said yeah. I

444
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 3: said he's in my brother's case too. So I said,

445
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 3: oh what, I said, your brother's your coat of finn

446
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: He said no, no, no, no, my brother got his

447
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: own case. Well, Scarcella was all sort of copy in

448
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 3: his case. So I said, you know he's a crooked cop.

449
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 3: He said, you ain't got to tell me. He used

450
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 3: the same witness in my case and my brother case

451
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 3: and in you know what I'm saying. So I was like,

452
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: you gotta be kidding me. At the time, I still

453
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 3: didn't know what to do with the information. It really

454
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 3: wasn't until me and Derek had the conversation.

455
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: That's when Derek dropped a bomb. He had been reading

456
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: Shabaka's legal papers when he noticed that Detective Louis Garcela

457
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: had played a crucial role.

458
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 5: Damn, man, it's the same fucker that frame me.

459
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: After all the time they'd known each other, Shebaca and

460
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: Derek had no idea that Louis Garcela was in each

461
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: of their cases, the same.

462
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 4: Cop in the bottom of the report that has its

463
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 4: attective Scarsella, Louis Scarsella.

464
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: It turned out that Scarcella was also a detective in

465
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: Nelson's case, and.

466
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 5: The stuff that I read it was kind of like

467
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 5: day Ja Vos all over again, Like, damn, this guy

468
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 5: doesn't stop.

469
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: And Derek said, well, I know about this case in

470
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: that case, and he started naming cases and that's when

471
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 3: it hit me. We got to expose him. And that's

472
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 3: when Derek said, Yo, you might be right.

473
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: Going after any cop is delicate, but when you've got

474
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: one like Scarcella, who's high ranking, who's got accolades, who's

475
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: really got a reputation citywide, that's even more delicate.

476
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: I said, Look, we can't attack him directly, because, of course,

477
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 3: don't like when you just call cop a crooked cop.

478
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: So Gabacca devised a different strategy. In his four to

479
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: forty motion, he denied that he made the confession to Scarcella.

480
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: But remember Scarcella was widely respected for getting confessions. It

481
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: was kind of considered like his superpower. So Schobacca couldn't

482
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: just come out and call him a liar.

483
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: So I said, he isn't worthy of credibility, and I

484
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: started showing a pattern of his misconduct. I showed that

485
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 3: anything he said had to be scrutinized.

486
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: Chabacca put together evidence gathered from his AI teen colleagues.

487
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: He cited the cases of Derek and the case of

488
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: Robert Hill, and for the first time he showed what

489
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: he called a pattern and practice of corrupt police behavior.

490
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: It was a breakthrough.

491
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: He was particularly proud of the way he expressed his

492
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 2: concerns about Scarcela.

493
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: Detective Scarcella's a to procure incorporating evidence may not be

494
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: entirely the result of Christine police work.

495
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: I gotta say that's impressively understated.

496
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: Schabacca's motion claimed actual innocence, and it worked. The court

497
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: granted him a new hearing. Sabacca was going to have

498
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:31,479
Speaker 1: his day in court, but there is still a huge

499
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: challenge in front of him. Being a jailhouse lawyer, even

500
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: one as good as Shabaka is one thing. Standing up

501
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: in a courtroom with confidence and arguing the intricacies of

502
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: courtroom procedure, that's quite another.

503
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 3: My only fit was that I didn't know courtroom etiquette.

504
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: So Sabacca needed help. But he wasn't going to engage

505
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: just any lawyer. He demanded one who degree to a

506
00:31:58,520 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: key point.

507
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 3: I came in there telling him, I don't care who

508
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 3: you are. I know my case and we're going to

509
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 3: do this my way. You know what I'm saying.

510
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: And what he meant was that there was one thing

511
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: that he wasn't going to negotiate with anyone about. Scarcella

512
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: needed to be confronted with evidence. It had taken him

513
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: years to a symbol of his past misdeeds.

514
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 5: We're going to call Scarsela like he needs to.

515
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 3: Be put on a stand.

516
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: Schabacca would have to show that Scarcella is not worthy

517
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: of credibility, that he had a quote unquote pattern and

518
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: practice of cheating, and he had ammunition to start with

519
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: Remember the witness who had been Scarcella's secret weapon in

520
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: so many cases, the witness who claimed she saw Robert

521
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: Hill commit two different murders. I mean that sure did

522
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 2: seem fishy, and then suddenly it seemed even fishier. Turned

523
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: out she witnessed a lot of murders, or said she did.

524
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: She was telling the truth.

525
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 2: What more do you want me to tell you?

526
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: This would have been eleven murders. That's next time on

527
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: The Burden.

528
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: Your body shaking.

529
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 2: You, you're gonna tell me, I'm gonna turn on you.

530
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: The Burden is created by Steve Fishman. It's hosted and

531
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: reported by Steve Fishman and myself, Dax Devlyn Ross. Our

532
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: story editor is Dan Bobkoff. Our senior producer is Simon Rittner.

533
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: Our producer is Snon Skelly. Our associate producer is Austin Smith.

534
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: Our fact checker is Sona Avakian. A production coordinator is

535
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: Davon Paradise. Mixing and sound design is provided by Mumble Media.

536
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Fisher Stevens, Steve Fishman, and Evan Williams.

537
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: Additional production help has been provided by Josie Holtzman. Isaac Kestenbaum,

538
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 2: Naomi Brauner, Lucy Souchek, Drew Nellis, Micah Hazel, Priscilla A. Labbi,

539
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: Saxon Baird, Katie Simon and Katie Springer. We want to

540
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: give us special thanks to Ellen Horn, Zach Stuart Pontier,

541
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: Lizzie Jacobs, Nathan Tempe, to buy a Black, Rachel Morrissey,

542
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 2: Mark Smirling and Lila Robinson. Special thanks to Marcy Wiseman.

543
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: We want to thank our agents, Ben Davis and Marissa Horowitz.

544
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: Legal support has been provided by Mona Hook at MKSR LLP.

545
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: And a very special thanks to Evan Williams, one of

546
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: our executive producers and the person who made this podcast possible.

547
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 2: We are honored to feature the song black Lightning from

548
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: the Bell Rais is our theme music. The Burden is

549
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: a production of Orbit Media and association with Signal Company.

550
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: Number one, Season two of The Burden Empire on Blood

551
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: will be available everywhere you get your podcasts on August seventh.

552
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: All episodes will be available early and ad free, along

553
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 1: with exclusive bonus content on Orbit's newly launched True Crime Clubhouse,

554
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 1: our subscription channel on Apple Podcasts. It's only two ninety

555
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,439
Speaker 1: nine a month,