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Speaker 1: Pushkin. We're back with a third episode and our John

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Speaker 1: Fruschante returns series. Over the last couple of months, Rick

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Speaker 1: Rubin and John Fushawnte have the Red Hot Chili Peppers

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Speaker 1: have come together to tape an ongoing series of conversations

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Speaker 1: that dives deep into John's philosophical and practical approach try

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Speaker 1: to music and playing guitar. If you haven't heard the

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Speaker 1: previous episodes, I highly recommend going to check him out. Today,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear John talk about his love of electronic music

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Speaker 1: and how he struggled to fall back in love with

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Speaker 1: guitar based rock before recording The peppers latest set of albums.

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Speaker 1: He also talks about the process of making Californication, and

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Speaker 1: near the end of the interview, picks up a guitar

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Speaker 1: to play through some of his most well known guitar

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Speaker 1: parts from that album. This is broken record liner notes

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Speaker 1: for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond is Rick Rubin

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Speaker 1: and John Fuschante from Shango La. Have you ever taken

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Speaker 1: a principle that you've learned in painting or from another

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Speaker 1: art form and brought it into music. I think so,

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Speaker 1: but but you know it's it's it's not specific, not conscious,

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Speaker 1: not that I can think of anyways. But those years

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Speaker 1: that I was just painting and drawing and writing in notebooks,

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Speaker 1: that's what made me see how I could make music again,

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Speaker 1: because I thought I was done making music. But it

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Speaker 1: was through doing that and realizing that I was realizing

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Speaker 1: what I was incapable of in that that I was

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Speaker 1: capable of in music, like what I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: with that I couldn't do. I didn't have enough technic,

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't used to appreciate the technical, theoretical and

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Speaker 1: all that. But once I realized what I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do as a visual artist that I couldn't do it

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Speaker 1: in visual art, it was real clear that I could

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Speaker 1: do it exactly that in music. And do you think

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Speaker 1: it's because you've spent so much time practicing music before?

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Speaker 1: Is that why that was? That's why like like had

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Speaker 1: you started as a painter, Oh yeah, then I would

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Speaker 1: have had that technique. So it's really just the time

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Speaker 1: in commitment, previous commitment. It was strange because I just

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Speaker 1: I did so much in terms of the thinking, in

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Speaker 1: terms of theory and technique that by the time I

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Speaker 1: found myself as a guitar player that what I thought

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Speaker 1: I was doing was forgetting about all that stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And when I painted, I continued to just be free.

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Speaker 1: And then when I realized the things I saw in

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Speaker 1: my head, I wanted to be able to do, and

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Speaker 1: I knew what aspects of whose styles I wanted to combine,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't have the technical ability to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, God, with music, I can do that.

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Speaker 1: If I want to make something that has like the

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Speaker 1: melodic sense of this person and the rhythmic sense of

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Speaker 1: this person, and the you know, the sound is this person,

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Speaker 1: I knew how to do it. Is that all art?

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Speaker 1: I feel like maybe it is like all art is

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Speaker 1: all of the different things that we've taken in and seeing, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this aspect of what this person does is really interesting,

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Speaker 1: and this aspect of what they do is interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this aspect of what someone else is interesting, and

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Speaker 1: no one has put those together before. And that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a new form, and it's probably the lineage of

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Speaker 1: art has always been built on things of the past,

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Speaker 1: shown in a new way that we've never experienced them before. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In playing along with other people's music, I constantly noticed

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Speaker 1: that somebody's taken one part of one thing and another

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Speaker 1: part of another thing, and they're together. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know if the things were conscious, but you see it

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Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, I figure there's just so many combinations,

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Speaker 1: and so we're just spinning them out and we get

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Speaker 1: them from different places. And sometimes I imagine it happens

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Speaker 1: by mistake, where you'll be playing in one style, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then a mistake will lead you into a different style.

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Speaker 1: But it works, and then it's like, oh, these two

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Speaker 1: styles go together. And I wouldn't have consciously thought that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when you heard that Joe Jackson song? Like,

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Speaker 1: did you hear it? Within a year of right? I

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Speaker 1: was just listening to that record a lot. I mean

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Speaker 1: I knew I was really into his music when I

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Speaker 1: was growing up, like, and I was into him since

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Speaker 1: I was a little kid, like since I was like

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Speaker 1: nine or something. But what's interesting is that, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: at that moment in time, you were going through a

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Speaker 1: Joe Jackson phase. The world was not going through a

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Speaker 1: Joe Jackson phase in that moment. No, yeah, you were,

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Speaker 1: and that was the information that allowed you into a

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Speaker 1: new thing. And I feel like that's where the magical

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Speaker 1: part of it isn't that it comes from the Joe

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Speaker 1: Jackson song. It's that why were you listening to Joe

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Speaker 1: Jackson then? And the theory would be because it had

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Speaker 1: the information you needed, even though that's that's not why

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Speaker 1: you were looking for. Do you know what I'm saying?

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Speaker 1: You weren't listening to it as a reference material. You

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Speaker 1: were listening to it because you liked it. No, particularly

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Speaker 1: like that record at that time, Beat Crazy that it's on.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to it a lot. There were certain records.

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Speaker 1: I was really into the new George Michael record as

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Speaker 1: well that listened Without Prejudice Volume one. When we were

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Speaker 1: writing Blood Sugar, I was listening at all the time,

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Speaker 1: like they were just examples of pop music where somebody

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Speaker 1: was going in a direction that was different from what

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Speaker 1: they were known for. Like Joe Jackson did that even

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Speaker 1: more on his following album. But on that album there's

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Speaker 1: certain things on it. He has this song called One

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Speaker 1: to One that's like a ballot, a really strong kind

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Speaker 1: of ballad song. It was just different than the kind

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Speaker 1: of power pop. You could tell he was he was

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Speaker 1: trying to go in a different direction. So I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it was conscious, but it was definitely worked

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Speaker 1: out to be related to what we were doing as

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Speaker 1: far as you know, with Blood Sugar, Like, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it wasn't conscious. And that's what's interesting. It's like that

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Speaker 1: that the way we live in the world impacts the

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Speaker 1: things that we make. Yeah, you know, the way we're

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Speaker 1: paying attention, what we're paying attention to, yah works its

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Speaker 1: way in. Yeah, it's like and it often seems like

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Speaker 1: it's the other. We think of causality, that the one

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Speaker 1: causes the other, and in actuality, yeah, you often get

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Speaker 1: the sense that it's the other way around. That you

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Speaker 1: were listening to that thing because you had to write

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Speaker 1: that song. Yeah, like just to point out for people

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Speaker 1: as far as the space, like the difference is what

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Speaker 1: would be the regular way it would have been like this,

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Speaker 1: that's the normal, Yeah, that that would have been the

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Speaker 1: first ends and you go into the chorus and everybody

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Speaker 1: plays on the one. But but because of that song,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just that I wanted the guitar part to go.

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Speaker 1: I wanted Chad to do it with me. I wanted

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Speaker 1: Plea to do it with me, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like like Anthony's the only one who's saying something on

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Speaker 1: the one, which is different from the Joe Jackson, where

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Speaker 1: the vocal and the music all are on the two

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Speaker 1: of the bar. So I had that realization that it's

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Speaker 1: just space basically that I was it's fascinating and interesting

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Speaker 1: where where these things come from? And it could have

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Speaker 1: also happened in an unconscious way. Like in this case,

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Speaker 1: it's conscious because you know that it happened, but it

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Speaker 1: also can happen on an unconscious level, where just depending

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Speaker 1: on what you're listening to, there's something that your mind's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting, and then lady, you're writing something, it's like,

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Speaker 1: oh that's interesting. Do you know what I'm saying? Without

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Speaker 1: it being conscious, it can still happen and it's not

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Speaker 1: trying to rip anything off. It's like we are made

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Speaker 1: of the things we listen to. Yeah, that's how it works. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's all we're made of. Yeah, it's not like there's

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Speaker 1: other stuff we're adding on top of what we hear.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying. It's like our bank,

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Speaker 1: our reference bank, our files are whatever we heard that

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Speaker 1: somehow got stored, whether we knew it was getting stored

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Speaker 1: or not. Yeah, Joe Jackson's an interesting artist also to

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Speaker 1: talk about, just because even in punk times, I felt

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Speaker 1: like he was an outlier, like he wasn't like anyone else. Yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: his story's really interesting. He wrote a really interesting book.

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Speaker 1: It basically just goes up to where he started having

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Speaker 1: a career, and he had a real strange life up

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Speaker 1: till then, Like he went to a music school, Like

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Speaker 1: he was reading Beethoven scores when he was a little kid,

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Speaker 1: like playing in cover groups to make money and pubs

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Speaker 1: for years, and had an opportunity to get a record

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Speaker 1: contract and had a clear concept of how the band

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Speaker 1: would look, what the style of music would be, what

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Speaker 1: the songs would be. He had a very calculated approach

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Speaker 1: to being a part of what wound up being like

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Speaker 1: the new wave, you know, post punk world. But I

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Speaker 1: think wrote some of the best pop songs of the time,

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Speaker 1: and really, like his book only goes up to that point,

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Speaker 1: but it's real. You can't imagine that person winding up

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Speaker 1: doing that. But he had a really good idea about

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Speaker 1: how to fit in with what was going on at

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Speaker 1: the time. You know. Interesting. I think the Police were

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Speaker 1: kind of similar. I think they were such good musicians

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Speaker 1: that what they were playing was a calculated thing based

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Speaker 1: on what was currently going on in England at the time,

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Speaker 1: what was cool at the time, and it could either

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Speaker 1: be calculated or when you're a kid and there's a

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Speaker 1: new music movement and you're into it, it's not unusual

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Speaker 1: to morph into it. I know that in my case,

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Speaker 1: I was really into punk rock and then hip hop

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Speaker 1: came along and I didn't like punk rock any less,

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Speaker 1: but there was this momentum around hip hop and it

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Speaker 1: was fun to be part of this other new music

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Speaker 1: scene that seemed related because they were both about not

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Speaker 1: being able to play really, you know, they were both

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Speaker 1: more about the content than the virtuosity in both cases. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but there were you know, some people were calculated at

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Speaker 1: the time because the punk thing was this new thing

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Speaker 1: and it's real crappy music. And in the case of

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Speaker 1: the Police and Joe Jackson, their music has tons of heart.

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Speaker 1: It's really good music, you know, Like, but I think

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Speaker 1: I've heard from quotes of Sting and from Joe Jackson's

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Speaker 1: book that it really was like I could do anything

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Speaker 1: that I want to do, Yeah, but I'm gonna do

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Speaker 1: this specific thing mixed the reggae rhythms with the faster

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Speaker 1: punk rhythms like you know, but make pop songs out

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Speaker 1: of that, like you know. And in Joe Jacksins case,

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Speaker 1: he wrote all the parts for everybody in his band.

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Speaker 1: There was no He approached it like a composer where

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Speaker 1: everything was written, like like Frank Zapper or something, where

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Speaker 1: like he tells each person exactly what to play. I

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Speaker 1: didn't mean to speak disparagingly about it being calculated because

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Speaker 1: something like The Monkeys was a group that was put together. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I love the Monkeys and I love those songs

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Speaker 1: that yeah, yeah, And there's not a right way to

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Speaker 1: do it. It's whatever yields something that you like to

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Speaker 1: listen to is fine. Yeah. It's funny how some people,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I think Lou Reid's songwriting style that

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Speaker 1: he did in The Velvet Underground, a lot of it

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Speaker 1: came from that he was working for that Pickwick record

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Speaker 1: company where he's just writing songs on a similar to

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Speaker 1: like a Tin Pan Alley type situation where they've just

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Speaker 1: got a lot of writers. They say, write a surf song,

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Speaker 1: write a motorcycle song. You're just sitting there all day

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Speaker 1: cranking out imitations of these trendy things from that time.

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Speaker 1: And I think when he wrote songs like Heroin or

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Speaker 1: Waiting for the Man, he's taking an idea for a

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Speaker 1: song and approaching the writing of the song in the

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Speaker 1: same sort of calculated way, like that this song is

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Speaker 1: about motorcycles, this song is going to be about Heroin

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Speaker 1: being a junkie, you know what I mean. Like, I

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Speaker 1: don't think without that experience of writing songs on an

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Speaker 1: assembly line that he would have ended up writing those

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Speaker 1: types of songs that he did. And probably the same

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Speaker 1: for the way Andy Warhol eventually made art where it

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Speaker 1: was more of a He had the idea for the

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Speaker 1: piece and then it would be crafted essentially by the

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Speaker 1: people because it would be silkscreened or something. Maybe in

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Speaker 1: some cases he would do the silk screen himself, but

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Speaker 1: it didn't really matter because it was more the idea

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Speaker 1: of the silkscreen piece and the composition. Yeah, so he

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Speaker 1: composed it, but he didn't have to physically manufacture. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: that idea of music being manufactured, this is inherent in

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Speaker 1: the whole, our whole what pop music is to us

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Speaker 1: and how it was created. It happened hand in hand

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Speaker 1: with the manufacturing of records and hand in hand with

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Speaker 1: the selling of sheep music as a product. Like like

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Speaker 1: pop music, it changes styles, but it doesn't change its

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Speaker 1: basic form. It comes from these things what existed before that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think has any real direct relationship to pop music.

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Speaker 1: The folk music and stuff like that. Even folk music

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Speaker 1: that we think of as like folk music from the

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Speaker 1: sixties on pop folk, yeah, is really all derivative of

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Speaker 1: old folk music and sort of like appropriated from the past, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but presented new to us now we look back at

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Speaker 1: sixties is like that was the folk revolution, but it

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Speaker 1: really was the folk revival, Yeah, into the recorded medium,

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Speaker 1: which was a completely different thing. But Yeah, I've always

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Speaker 1: been real conscious every time we've made a record. I've

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Speaker 1: always been as we're moving towards making the record, my

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Speaker 1: mind is thinking what am I going to play along with,

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Speaker 1: which means what am I going to listen to? Because

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Speaker 1: I sit around playing along with CDs the way a

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Speaker 1: lot of people might sit around reading the newspaper or something.

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Speaker 1: It's just it. That's how I relax, And I'm just

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Speaker 1: well aware that the final thing is going to carry

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Speaker 1: aspects of those things in it. But the fun thing

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Speaker 1: is not knowing what but seeing how where where my

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Speaker 1: imagination is leading me. It is what things am I

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Speaker 1: excited about, what things are giving me intense feelings, and

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Speaker 1: also making sure that there's some kind of variety where

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Speaker 1: the things have a contrast with each other. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: how am I going to put those things together? But

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Speaker 1: it's got to be things that I picked that I'm

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Speaker 1: excited about it. I wouldn't be able to do it,

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Speaker 1: but it was somebody else's idea on assignment, You couldn't

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Speaker 1: do it. That's it's more just like it's what you

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Speaker 1: happen to be into. And I know, for anything, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to do a deep dive into anything, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how it's possible to do unless you're really

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Speaker 1: into it. It's not possible. Yeah. Could you imagine listening

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Speaker 1: all day to music that you didn't choose to listen

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Speaker 1: it'd be crazy making Yeah. Yeah. Actually, when we started

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Speaker 1: making the new stuff, I sent everybody a ton of

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Speaker 1: music and dropbox, you know, and like, I don't think

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Speaker 1: anybody listened to anything. Like everybody's got their own ideas

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Speaker 1: about about what they need to hear to get them

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Speaker 1: through a career. Yeah, and that's great too, because in

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Speaker 1: a way. What makes a band great is not everyone

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Speaker 1: being on the same page. It's being able to come

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Speaker 1: together on a page. Yeah, but with everyone bringing different,

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Speaker 1: you know, aspects of themselves and what's exciting to them,

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Speaker 1: yield something more interesting than what a solo project would be. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Just those combined energies, you know, amplifying something bigger. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing. It's like, It's like I know that

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Speaker 1: no matter what that combination of things that I'm listening

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Speaker 1: to is, I can't predict what aspects of it are

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Speaker 1: going to be a parent by the time everybody else

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Speaker 1: has done their contributed their part to it. Do you

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Speaker 1: ever play along to non guitar based music? Yeah? And

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Speaker 1: what does that look like? How does it work? You mean? Example?

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Speaker 1: And what would you play? Lots of things. I've had

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Speaker 1: periods where I'm like figuring out the harmonies to Beethoven

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Speaker 1: and Wagner and things like that, where if I'm listening

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Speaker 1: to it and I have a and I can see

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Speaker 1: in my head how I would how I could approach

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Speaker 1: some of the harmonies in it and get some kind

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Speaker 1: of conception of it. I do that, but more often

293
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Speaker 1: I guess, since I was a kid, I used to

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Speaker 1: figure out like the heads of jazz tunes and stuff

295
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Speaker 1: like that. But in my adult life, like in the

296
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Speaker 1: Chili Peppers, I think the thing I've probably done the

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00:16:32,156 --> 00:16:36,236
Speaker 1: most is play along with synthesizers. Whether it's like I

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Speaker 1: know how to play all the synth parts on all

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Speaker 1: the Depeche Mode records from like from their first album

300
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Speaker 1: up through like ninety four, Like I know every little

301
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Speaker 1: melody that comes in, I know how to play it,

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Speaker 1: so I can just play along with the same song

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Speaker 1: like four or five times, and every time play it

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Speaker 1: differently because I'm playing with different group of parts. And

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00:16:55,356 --> 00:16:57,556
Speaker 1: so yeah, Like there's lots of synthpop that I play

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Speaker 1: along with the synth parts too. There's lots of electronic

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Speaker 1: music and rave music that I play along with the samples,

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Speaker 1: or I play along with the synth part or the bassline.

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Speaker 1: So I've done a lot of that. I've also done

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Speaker 1: a lot of playing along with hip hop. When we

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Speaker 1: were making Stadium Arcadium, because it was so simple, I

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Speaker 1: would I would play it on bass because there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of bass, Like bass was there and the

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Speaker 1: stuff I was listening to more than other more than

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Speaker 1: melodies were. And when I play bass along with it,

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Speaker 1: I'd just play with my pinky because I was trying

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Speaker 1: to strengthen up my pinkie, so I'd do the whole

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Speaker 1: thing with just the one finger, with the weakest finger.

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Speaker 1: And then there's certain things that I just make a

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Speaker 1: conscious effort. Okay, I'm not going to play along with that.

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Speaker 1: I can usually see in my head how you would

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Speaker 1: play along with it. But it's nice to have a

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Speaker 1: couple of things you just never play along with, ye

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Speaker 1: Like I used to really like Rim at the time

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Speaker 1: that we did Californication, but I had a rule for myself.

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Speaker 1: I just never played along with them. And at the time,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I really liked the band Hannary Rocks

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Speaker 1: a lot. I was listening to them a lot, but

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Speaker 1: I never played along with them, Like I just didn't

330
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Speaker 1: want to do it. Hannah Rox was an interesting out

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Speaker 1: of time band. Yeah yeah, because they're just they're more

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Speaker 1: like a post glam thing. They're they're not really like

333
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Speaker 1: a too late to be glam yeah and too early

334
00:18:22,916 --> 00:18:26,596
Speaker 1: to be a hair metal yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. I

335
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Speaker 1: always thought I like them since I was a teenager.

336
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Speaker 1: There was just like there's something really fun about their music.

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Speaker 1: To me, I like the bands that don't fit anywhere there.

338
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Speaker 1: There's always something interesting when either a band it's part

339
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Speaker 1: of a scene that they don't really belong in, Like

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Speaker 1: Joe Jackson would be an example. It's not obvious that

341
00:18:46,076 --> 00:18:49,316
Speaker 1: he belonged in that scene, even though he was popular

342
00:18:49,356 --> 00:18:53,956
Speaker 1: in that scene, or where there is no scene associated.

343
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Speaker 1: We're just sort of a fringy thing, like I think

344
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Speaker 1: of them, or albums that don't sound like other albums

345
00:19:00,276 --> 00:19:03,476
Speaker 1: that The Love Forever Changes album It's one of my

346
00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:05,796
Speaker 1: favorite albums, and I don't know any other albums particularly

347
00:19:05,836 --> 00:19:08,716
Speaker 1: like that. It's so nothing sounds, it's so good, and

348
00:19:08,756 --> 00:19:11,076
Speaker 1: it's one of a kind, like how come there's not

349
00:19:12,236 --> 00:19:16,036
Speaker 1: fifty more like that in the wake of that. Yeah,

350
00:19:16,036 --> 00:19:21,476
Speaker 1: it's just a singular thing. Yeah, there's a lot. Jungle

351
00:19:21,636 --> 00:19:25,516
Speaker 1: is probably my favorite kind of music, and I collect

352
00:19:25,556 --> 00:19:29,436
Speaker 1: it and the stuff from like ninety two to ninety six,

353
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Speaker 1: and every so often there's a song there's musical style

354
00:19:35,396 --> 00:19:37,836
Speaker 1: of it. It's there's not one other song that's like

355
00:19:37,916 --> 00:19:40,636
Speaker 1: that one song. You find these weird. A lot of

356
00:19:40,756 --> 00:19:43,436
Speaker 1: it's similar to each other in certain ways, and then

357
00:19:44,236 --> 00:19:49,436
Speaker 1: there's certain songs that somebody could have nab that and

358
00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:51,836
Speaker 1: it could have become a trend, but it just never did,

359
00:19:51,956 --> 00:19:54,236
Speaker 1: and so it just it just winds up being this

360
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Speaker 1: one obscure song that doesn't sound like anything else. That's

361
00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:03,276
Speaker 1: also when you're into something, you notice those differences more.

362
00:20:03,316 --> 00:20:07,516
Speaker 1: You know, to somebody else that forever changes might just

363
00:20:07,636 --> 00:20:11,556
Speaker 1: sound same. Is like a folk rock many other folk

364
00:20:11,636 --> 00:20:15,396
Speaker 1: rock album. You know, like when you really like something,

365
00:20:15,636 --> 00:20:19,356
Speaker 1: I feel like you wind up zoning into the details

366
00:20:19,596 --> 00:20:22,636
Speaker 1: of it that make one thing this similar. Do you

367
00:20:22,716 --> 00:20:26,836
Speaker 1: decide on a new for you old genre music to

368
00:20:26,996 --> 00:20:30,036
Speaker 1: dive into deeply? At times? Does that come up where

369
00:20:30,076 --> 00:20:33,556
Speaker 1: like I'm going to really research a particular style of

370
00:20:33,636 --> 00:20:37,556
Speaker 1: music only if I'm excited about it. Yeah? Yeah, Do

371
00:20:37,596 --> 00:20:41,756
Speaker 1: you remember the last one? The last one and the

372
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Speaker 1: only thing that's popping into my head is ghetto house

373
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Speaker 1: from Chicago? Like it developed into a style called juke

374
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Speaker 1: and then a style called footwork. And I was really

375
00:20:51,516 --> 00:20:55,316
Speaker 1: into footwork when I first heard that, but I wasn't

376
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Speaker 1: aware of the ghetto house that it had come from,

377
00:20:58,396 --> 00:21:01,156
Speaker 1: that the people who made footwork had been listening to

378
00:21:02,116 --> 00:21:04,476
Speaker 1: when they were growing up, you know. But I mean

379
00:21:04,516 --> 00:21:06,796
Speaker 1: I got into it like ten I don't know, seven

380
00:21:06,876 --> 00:21:09,316
Speaker 1: years ago or something like that. Is it a blend

381
00:21:09,356 --> 00:21:14,076
Speaker 1: of rap and house not rap because it's it's repetitive

382
00:21:14,316 --> 00:21:18,276
Speaker 1: and the lyrics are generally kind of funny, dirty sex lyrics.

383
00:21:18,316 --> 00:21:22,916
Speaker 1: But one sample of something repeated, so it's spoken. It's

384
00:21:22,956 --> 00:21:26,556
Speaker 1: not really rapping, but it's it's because there's no flow. Really,

385
00:21:26,596 --> 00:21:30,276
Speaker 1: it's just a sentence or a phrase that keeps getting

386
00:21:30,316 --> 00:21:33,516
Speaker 1: repeated over and over and over. It comes from Chicago

387
00:21:33,556 --> 00:21:37,116
Speaker 1: house music, so you have like Chicago acid and then

388
00:21:37,156 --> 00:21:40,276
Speaker 1: you have this label dance Mania that there was a

389
00:21:40,356 --> 00:21:44,636
Speaker 1: Chicago label that kept developing as the music was developing

390
00:21:44,676 --> 00:21:46,476
Speaker 1: at the time, and ghetto house was one of the

391
00:21:46,476 --> 00:21:51,516
Speaker 1: things that developed into And there's nothing fancy about it.

392
00:21:51,516 --> 00:21:54,796
Speaker 1: It's it's like a real simple version of funk. It's

393
00:21:54,796 --> 00:21:58,996
Speaker 1: like an electronic it's real. It's a really strange kind

394
00:21:58,996 --> 00:22:02,516
Speaker 1: of electronic funk that's very minimal. It'll usually be like,

395
00:22:03,396 --> 00:22:07,516
Speaker 1: you know, a baseline, a simple drum part, maybe one

396
00:22:07,556 --> 00:22:10,276
Speaker 1: simple sent melody, one sam bowl. They get a lot

397
00:22:10,276 --> 00:22:13,476
Speaker 1: of mileage out of very little. And I'm so in

398
00:22:13,796 --> 00:22:17,156
Speaker 1: with my electronic music. I'm so into being fancy that

399
00:22:17,396 --> 00:22:22,076
Speaker 1: I really enjoy listening to people who can who can

400
00:22:22,116 --> 00:22:26,396
Speaker 1: say so much, so simply and with so little effects,

401
00:22:26,476 --> 00:22:31,636
Speaker 1: so little programming, to have a loop that feels good,

402
00:22:31,676 --> 00:22:34,956
Speaker 1: that's just one bar going over and over, but it's

403
00:22:34,996 --> 00:22:37,076
Speaker 1: really funky and you want to hear it over and over,

404
00:22:37,196 --> 00:22:38,876
Speaker 1: or a sample that you want to hear the same

405
00:22:38,916 --> 00:22:41,956
Speaker 1: sample over and over really hard. Yeah, And for them

406
00:22:41,956 --> 00:22:45,556
Speaker 1: it came naturally. So it's fascinating music for me to

407
00:22:45,916 --> 00:22:48,716
Speaker 1: listen to. So, you know, I feel like joining the

408
00:22:49,316 --> 00:22:52,836
Speaker 1: joining the band again. This time it was really sort

409
00:22:52,876 --> 00:22:56,236
Speaker 1: of about going back to I was trying to figure

410
00:22:56,276 --> 00:22:59,996
Speaker 1: out what out of rock music would I'd be interested

411
00:23:00,036 --> 00:23:03,676
Speaker 1: in now because I just listened to this, you know,

412
00:23:03,796 --> 00:23:06,356
Speaker 1: to I'd be on a drive home from the dentist

413
00:23:06,396 --> 00:23:08,316
Speaker 1: and I'd listen to the Rolling Stones, and I'd think

414
00:23:08,676 --> 00:23:11,916
Speaker 1: I was really cool. I used to make meaningful kind

415
00:23:11,916 --> 00:23:15,036
Speaker 1: of music like this with the band, you know, like

416
00:23:15,716 --> 00:23:17,956
Speaker 1: as much as I love electronic music, there would be

417
00:23:17,996 --> 00:23:22,836
Speaker 1: certain things, whether it was like Peter Hamill and Vandergraft Generator,

418
00:23:22,956 --> 00:23:25,676
Speaker 1: or I'd listened to a record now and then and

419
00:23:26,356 --> 00:23:30,476
Speaker 1: it just had a certain sort of meaningfulness, like sometimes

420
00:23:30,476 --> 00:23:32,276
Speaker 1: like makes you cry or it gives you chills. In

421
00:23:32,276 --> 00:23:34,916
Speaker 1: this way, that's a different feeling from what I get

422
00:23:34,956 --> 00:23:39,116
Speaker 1: from electronic music, and that feeling of vulnerability and the

423
00:23:39,676 --> 00:23:42,556
Speaker 1: of the human being that's doing it because you don't

424
00:23:42,596 --> 00:23:46,316
Speaker 1: have the machine in between. But I didn't specifically, I

425
00:23:46,356 --> 00:23:49,036
Speaker 1: wasn't obsessed with any rock music in particular. I would

426
00:23:49,076 --> 00:23:51,316
Speaker 1: just listen to this now and then you know or that.

427
00:23:52,196 --> 00:23:54,836
Speaker 1: So when I rejoined, I had to start start to

428
00:23:54,836 --> 00:23:57,116
Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, what out of rock music would I

429
00:23:57,156 --> 00:24:00,716
Speaker 1: actually be like I want to hear over and over

430
00:24:00,796 --> 00:24:03,516
Speaker 1: and be excited about, you know? Was it? What was

431
00:24:03,556 --> 00:24:06,236
Speaker 1: the thing that not too many things like, I know,

432
00:24:06,356 --> 00:24:09,396
Speaker 1: fifties music really, yeah, fifties was the thing that was

433
00:24:09,436 --> 00:24:12,356
Speaker 1: the thing that in general was the most exciting to

434
00:24:12,356 --> 00:24:15,116
Speaker 1: me when I rejoined this time was just like because

435
00:24:15,396 --> 00:24:18,636
Speaker 1: because of the purity of it, and because because of

436
00:24:18,676 --> 00:24:20,636
Speaker 1: the feeling that it was new in the state of

437
00:24:20,676 --> 00:24:24,996
Speaker 1: mind I was in. All other rock music after say,

438
00:24:25,036 --> 00:24:28,396
Speaker 1: like nineteen fifty nine sounded to me like a fake

439
00:24:28,516 --> 00:24:31,276
Speaker 1: version of the real thing. It was only the things

440
00:24:31,316 --> 00:24:35,716
Speaker 1: from like fifty six through fifty nine that sounded authentic

441
00:24:35,996 --> 00:24:38,556
Speaker 1: to me. I think ac DC felt that way the

442
00:24:38,596 --> 00:24:42,596
Speaker 1: whole entirety of their career, right like music ended sort

443
00:24:42,636 --> 00:24:46,476
Speaker 1: of with Chuck Berry, like everything past Chuck Berry doesn't matter. Yeah,

444
00:24:46,516 --> 00:24:50,396
Speaker 1: I'd never seen it exactly from that perspective until whatever

445
00:24:50,396 --> 00:24:53,996
Speaker 1: that was twenty twenty that started playing together and I

446
00:24:54,116 --> 00:24:57,476
Speaker 1: started and I started writing music with them. I was like, Wow,

447
00:24:57,476 --> 00:25:00,276
Speaker 1: the only rock music that really that does the same

448
00:25:00,356 --> 00:25:04,356
Speaker 1: thing for me that electronic music does emotionally is the

449
00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:07,716
Speaker 1: fifties stuff, because because it's the same with electronic music,

450
00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:10,356
Speaker 1: I like my favorite thing or when a style has

451
00:25:10,476 --> 00:25:13,916
Speaker 1: just blossomed, when it's when when when they've just come

452
00:25:13,956 --> 00:25:17,036
Speaker 1: across a certain way of doing things and a certain

453
00:25:17,116 --> 00:25:21,076
Speaker 1: kind of spirit and emotion and style. I like it

454
00:25:21,196 --> 00:25:24,436
Speaker 1: for that first two or three years that they're doing it,

455
00:25:24,676 --> 00:25:26,956
Speaker 1: and then I don't like it. I then I like

456
00:25:27,796 --> 00:25:29,956
Speaker 1: whatever the thing was that came a few years after

457
00:25:30,036 --> 00:25:32,676
Speaker 1: that where somebody was influenced by it but was doing

458
00:25:32,676 --> 00:25:36,676
Speaker 1: something completely different. Generally, I'm not saying that's one hundred

459
00:25:36,676 --> 00:25:39,436
Speaker 1: percent true, but that's generally how I my taste is

460
00:25:39,436 --> 00:25:41,996
Speaker 1: with electronic music. I like a particular style for like

461
00:25:42,156 --> 00:25:45,276
Speaker 1: three I would say that's true for all music, not

462
00:25:45,356 --> 00:25:48,196
Speaker 1: even just just electronic music, because like, I'll get interested

463
00:25:48,236 --> 00:25:54,956
Speaker 1: in something and then once it becomes regular to me. Yeah,

464
00:25:54,996 --> 00:25:58,916
Speaker 1: it's less interesting, right, yeah, when you when you can

465
00:25:58,996 --> 00:26:00,836
Speaker 1: expect what people are going to do. But there's a

466
00:26:00,876 --> 00:26:05,396
Speaker 1: certain freshness that comes from Wow, nobody's ever sounded like this,

467
00:26:05,556 --> 00:26:07,756
Speaker 1: you know, because there was great R and B in

468
00:26:07,796 --> 00:26:11,116
Speaker 1: the early fifties, But like, but that thing that Elvis

469
00:26:11,196 --> 00:26:13,956
Speaker 1: was doing, there's not somebody else that sounds like that

470
00:26:14,436 --> 00:26:18,276
Speaker 1: before him. Yeah, he's influenced by things, but what that sound,

471
00:26:18,316 --> 00:26:20,476
Speaker 1: what he was doing with his voice, the way those

472
00:26:20,556 --> 00:26:23,836
Speaker 1: musicians were playing together, those precise kind of rhythms. There

473
00:26:23,876 --> 00:26:27,396
Speaker 1: just wasn't something that sounded like that. So if you're

474
00:26:27,396 --> 00:26:30,956
Speaker 1: studying what came before and you're and you're familiar with it,

475
00:26:31,116 --> 00:26:33,156
Speaker 1: and then you hear that, you can see, wow, you

476
00:26:33,156 --> 00:26:35,636
Speaker 1: can put yourself in the time and place of what

477
00:26:35,716 --> 00:26:38,236
Speaker 1: that would have felt like at the time. And Buddy

478
00:26:38,276 --> 00:26:42,076
Speaker 1: Holly's songwriting and stuff like that. It was just and

479
00:26:42,116 --> 00:26:45,556
Speaker 1: the way Johnny guitar Watson played guitar like where it's

480
00:26:46,116 --> 00:26:50,876
Speaker 1: distorted and mean and fucked up, sounding like like nasty.

481
00:26:50,996 --> 00:26:53,556
Speaker 1: Before him, I don't know if I know a lot

482
00:26:53,596 --> 00:26:56,836
Speaker 1: of like electric blues players who like who were playing

483
00:26:56,876 --> 00:27:00,916
Speaker 1: before him, Nobody was that nasty is that like it?

484
00:27:00,916 --> 00:27:04,916
Speaker 1: It's really there's there's a there's a few people Clarence

485
00:27:04,956 --> 00:27:08,516
Speaker 1: Gaymouth Brown and who who was going for a while

486
00:27:08,516 --> 00:27:11,036
Speaker 1: before Johnny Guitar watch him and I guess he got

487
00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:12,996
Speaker 1: to a point where he was having a similar kind

488
00:27:12,996 --> 00:27:16,636
Speaker 1: of nastiness. But but yeah, there's these certain certain things

489
00:27:16,716 --> 00:27:19,396
Speaker 1: when they first come up. So I was so into

490
00:27:19,436 --> 00:27:24,036
Speaker 1: those kind of players that stuff like Cream and the

491
00:27:24,116 --> 00:27:28,556
Speaker 1: Yardbirds wasn't seeming as exciting to me as or Jimmy

492
00:27:28,596 --> 00:27:32,076
Speaker 1: Hendrix even like wasn't sounding as exciting as the people

493
00:27:32,116 --> 00:27:35,876
Speaker 1: that they were listening to, because that's where that's where

494
00:27:35,916 --> 00:27:38,636
Speaker 1: I heard that freshness. So I was definitely into fifties

495
00:27:38,716 --> 00:27:42,076
Speaker 1: music the whole time. But also Susie and the Banshees

496
00:27:42,156 --> 00:27:44,996
Speaker 1: sounded good to me right away, right when I rejoined,

497
00:27:44,996 --> 00:27:47,876
Speaker 1: and that was something I was enjoying playing along with

498
00:27:48,916 --> 00:27:52,436
Speaker 1: a lot. And gradually, as as the band played together

499
00:27:52,476 --> 00:27:54,596
Speaker 1: more and as I started to see the direction that

500
00:27:54,636 --> 00:27:57,396
Speaker 1: we were going, because having no idea of what that

501
00:27:57,516 --> 00:28:00,076
Speaker 1: was going to be at first, it was hard, but

502
00:28:00,116 --> 00:28:03,996
Speaker 1: as as time went by, I started getting into more

503
00:28:04,076 --> 00:28:08,876
Speaker 1: like psychedelic things and stuff. It's interesting how regardless of

504
00:28:08,956 --> 00:28:12,356
Speaker 1: the influences going back to what you were listening to,

505
00:28:12,636 --> 00:28:17,956
Speaker 1: let's say on Californication up through now. The influences could

506
00:28:17,996 --> 00:28:23,596
Speaker 1: be could change wildly over the years, and you and

507
00:28:23,716 --> 00:28:26,876
Speaker 1: the band sound like you and the band, Yeah, which

508
00:28:26,916 --> 00:28:28,676
Speaker 1: is great. Do you know what it's like. It's it's

509
00:28:28,796 --> 00:28:35,596
Speaker 1: beautiful that the new inspirations can open new channels. But

510
00:28:35,676 --> 00:28:38,396
Speaker 1: they don't change who you are, you know, like, they don't.

511
00:28:38,636 --> 00:28:42,156
Speaker 1: They don't make it a different band. Yeah, nothing can

512
00:28:42,276 --> 00:28:45,236
Speaker 1: change your spirit. I would say I've never I've never

513
00:28:45,236 --> 00:28:47,756
Speaker 1: heard a musician sound like another musician. For all the

514
00:28:47,796 --> 00:28:51,276
Speaker 1: talk that people do about this person stole from that person,

515
00:28:51,476 --> 00:28:54,756
Speaker 1: I've never heard one other musician sound like another musician.

516
00:28:55,156 --> 00:28:59,156
Speaker 1: I just I've seen people try to and they don't,

517
00:28:59,396 --> 00:29:02,716
Speaker 1: you know, like like And that even goes for electronic music,

518
00:29:02,756 --> 00:29:05,836
Speaker 1: even when it's drum machines and synthesizers. I've heard plenty

519
00:29:05,876 --> 00:29:09,396
Speaker 1: of people try to imitate, say Aphex Twin, and I've

520
00:29:09,396 --> 00:29:12,956
Speaker 1: never heard that somebody actually sound like him. Like the

521
00:29:13,076 --> 00:29:17,116
Speaker 1: human spirit, it's unique to each person, and a person's

522
00:29:17,156 --> 00:29:19,996
Speaker 1: soul is unique to them. And I think you're stuck

523
00:29:20,036 --> 00:29:22,476
Speaker 1: with that. You're stuck with whoever you are as a soul.

524
00:29:22,556 --> 00:29:26,236
Speaker 1: You can use influences to give you ideas or to

525
00:29:26,316 --> 00:29:28,876
Speaker 1: guide your ideas in different directions that you might not

526
00:29:28,956 --> 00:29:32,076
Speaker 1: have gone otherwise. But the one thing that you can't

527
00:29:32,556 --> 00:29:36,476
Speaker 1: avoid is sounding like yourself. And I would say the

528
00:29:36,556 --> 00:29:40,756
Speaker 1: opposite side of being stuck with it is it's the

529
00:29:40,836 --> 00:29:45,476
Speaker 1: reason for you to make art, because if you don't

530
00:29:45,516 --> 00:29:47,676
Speaker 1: do it, no one else can play your part. You

531
00:29:47,676 --> 00:29:49,676
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. It's like, the only you can

532
00:29:49,836 --> 00:29:52,876
Speaker 1: play what you play, whatever that is, and what you

533
00:29:52,996 --> 00:29:58,076
Speaker 1: bring to it, that's your sound. Yeah, and maybe in

534
00:29:58,116 --> 00:30:00,716
Speaker 1: the beginning it might be based on other people sounds

535
00:30:01,276 --> 00:30:04,276
Speaker 1: until you find really what your direction is because most

536
00:30:04,916 --> 00:30:08,156
Speaker 1: most people making music might start by copying someone else

537
00:30:09,356 --> 00:30:15,076
Speaker 1: very quickly that falls away into being who you are. Yeah. Yeah,

538
00:30:15,236 --> 00:30:19,116
Speaker 1: like althor being a teenager. I was definitely obsessed with

539
00:30:19,236 --> 00:30:22,876
Speaker 1: trying to be just like certain musicians. But I always

540
00:30:23,476 --> 00:30:26,236
Speaker 1: looking back, I sounded like me. It was me playing

541
00:30:26,276 --> 00:30:29,436
Speaker 1: a different style. Yeah, I hadn't found the style of

542
00:30:29,476 --> 00:30:32,676
Speaker 1: my own, but the spirit of it still sounded like me.

543
00:30:32,756 --> 00:30:35,556
Speaker 1: I didn't sound like those other people. I can't. It's

544
00:30:35,636 --> 00:30:39,316
Speaker 1: not that we have to find our own sound, because

545
00:30:39,356 --> 00:30:43,836
Speaker 1: our own sound is there. It's when the influences start

546
00:30:43,876 --> 00:30:46,716
Speaker 1: falling away, what's left is your sound? Do you know

547
00:30:46,756 --> 00:30:49,636
Speaker 1: what I mean? It's less of a discovery and more

548
00:30:49,636 --> 00:30:53,356
Speaker 1: of a coming into who we are. Yeah, but yeah,

549
00:30:53,436 --> 00:30:59,036
Speaker 1: Sidbarra like Bad Brains Nirvana. I gradually started like seeing

550
00:30:59,036 --> 00:31:02,916
Speaker 1: a connection between what I wanted to do, you know,

551
00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:06,716
Speaker 1: and what became our new records and that stuff, and

552
00:31:06,956 --> 00:31:11,556
Speaker 1: was just just moved by like it. But I've never

553
00:31:11,596 --> 00:31:15,476
Speaker 1: had I've never been into so little rock music as

554
00:31:15,516 --> 00:31:18,036
Speaker 1: I was when we when we made these records. It

555
00:31:18,196 --> 00:31:22,796
Speaker 1: really I had to really strive to like find like, Okay,

556
00:31:22,836 --> 00:31:25,876
Speaker 1: what can get me excited about it? Just because like

557
00:31:25,916 --> 00:31:27,716
Speaker 1: I said, I would get excited about it and burst

558
00:31:27,756 --> 00:31:29,956
Speaker 1: I didn't. I've never loved it any less, but I would.

559
00:31:30,476 --> 00:31:32,716
Speaker 1: I just wasn't as obsessed with it. I get more

560
00:31:32,756 --> 00:31:36,836
Speaker 1: obsessed with with electronic music. We're gonna take a quick

561
00:31:36,876 --> 00:31:38,876
Speaker 1: break here and then we'll be back with more from

562
00:31:38,916 --> 00:31:46,076
Speaker 1: Rick Rubin and John for Shauntey. We're back with more

563
00:31:46,116 --> 00:31:49,956
Speaker 1: from Rick Rubin and John for shaunte How has playing

564
00:31:49,956 --> 00:31:52,396
Speaker 1: live changed from the early days in the band to

565
00:31:52,516 --> 00:31:55,436
Speaker 1: now for you? Well, as we discussed like the first

566
00:31:55,476 --> 00:31:57,636
Speaker 1: six months I was. I didn't know what to do

567
00:31:57,676 --> 00:32:00,036
Speaker 1: with myself up there. I was really nervous and just

568
00:32:00,316 --> 00:32:03,916
Speaker 1: and just confused, maybe in relation to the music more

569
00:32:03,916 --> 00:32:06,316
Speaker 1: than how to be do you know what I mean?

570
00:32:06,916 --> 00:32:10,396
Speaker 1: I guess if I'm thinking like from Cali Fornication on,

571
00:32:10,916 --> 00:32:15,196
Speaker 1: like like, it really hasn't changed that much. You know,

572
00:32:15,356 --> 00:32:18,596
Speaker 1: playing live is just a more intense version of what

573
00:32:18,636 --> 00:32:22,116
Speaker 1: we do in the studio, and and I don't feel

574
00:32:22,116 --> 00:32:25,276
Speaker 1: like my basic approach to it has changed because it

575
00:32:25,476 --> 00:32:28,116
Speaker 1: has so much room to be in the moment and

576
00:32:28,156 --> 00:32:31,156
Speaker 1: to do things that are unique. At that point, I

577
00:32:31,236 --> 00:32:34,956
Speaker 1: was really I was excited about playing live and I

578
00:32:35,036 --> 00:32:38,876
Speaker 1: was experimenting. Like on Blood Sugar Tour, I wasn't super

579
00:32:38,916 --> 00:32:41,676
Speaker 1: excited to be playing live, but I was doing real

580
00:32:41,876 --> 00:32:45,276
Speaker 1: neat sort of experimenting on stage and stuff. But from

581
00:32:45,316 --> 00:32:49,236
Speaker 1: Californication on, it's like I'm I'm exploring things and I'm

582
00:32:49,236 --> 00:32:52,196
Speaker 1: excited to be there. So it's got that same indifference

583
00:32:52,196 --> 00:32:55,196
Speaker 1: that I had on the Blood Sugar tour where where

584
00:32:55,236 --> 00:32:57,516
Speaker 1: I'm not worried if if I fuck up, or if

585
00:32:57,796 --> 00:33:00,516
Speaker 1: or if I or if something if the energy falls

586
00:33:00,556 --> 00:33:03,636
Speaker 1: apart for a second, I'm not worried about it, but

587
00:33:03,756 --> 00:33:07,036
Speaker 1: it's backed by like enthusiasm about playing with the guys

588
00:33:07,076 --> 00:33:09,916
Speaker 1: and about you know, So, how would you say it

589
00:33:09,956 --> 00:33:12,516
Speaker 1: is from night to night for you? I didn't mean

590
00:33:12,636 --> 00:33:16,036
Speaker 1: enthusiasm wise, I mean like musically, how would you say, Well,

591
00:33:16,436 --> 00:33:22,836
Speaker 1: Flee and Chad and I are improvising like all the time. Yeah,

592
00:33:22,916 --> 00:33:25,276
Speaker 1: Like I feel like no bands do that. I don't

593
00:33:25,356 --> 00:33:27,036
Speaker 1: know of any other bands I do. I mean jazz

594
00:33:27,076 --> 00:33:30,076
Speaker 1: bands do that, but I don't know of big rock

595
00:33:30,116 --> 00:33:32,876
Speaker 1: bands playing for a lot of people who do that. Yeah,

596
00:33:32,916 --> 00:33:37,196
Speaker 1: and certain songs allow for it more than others for me. Yeah,

597
00:33:37,396 --> 00:33:40,116
Speaker 1: Flee I think is improvising from the beginning of this

598
00:33:40,316 --> 00:33:43,156
Speaker 1: show till the end of the show. Yeah, Like, like

599
00:33:43,196 --> 00:33:46,036
Speaker 1: there's enough. The bass parts are all kind of almost

600
00:33:46,116 --> 00:33:50,236
Speaker 1: all kind of built for that. And Chad, I notice,

601
00:33:50,876 --> 00:33:55,516
Speaker 1: especially right now, he's doing it more. He's more sensitive

602
00:33:55,676 --> 00:33:58,636
Speaker 1: to us than he ever was in the past. Like

603
00:33:58,676 --> 00:34:02,596
Speaker 1: he's interacting with us in ways that I don't remember

604
00:34:02,676 --> 00:34:06,676
Speaker 1: him doing on the in any of the previous times

605
00:34:06,716 --> 00:34:09,676
Speaker 1: I was in the band's he used to sort of

606
00:34:10,116 --> 00:34:13,036
Speaker 1: he helped things together and he pushed us and all that,

607
00:34:13,476 --> 00:34:15,756
Speaker 1: but he wasn't listening to us in the way that

608
00:34:15,796 --> 00:34:20,556
Speaker 1: he listens now, like he's really sensitive as a person too.

609
00:34:20,596 --> 00:34:24,116
Speaker 1: He has a sensitivity that I did not associate him

610
00:34:24,116 --> 00:34:26,716
Speaker 1: with having anything like that when I rejoined, you know,

611
00:34:26,836 --> 00:34:31,076
Speaker 1: because he's an incredible musician. Yeah, he's an incredible musician.

612
00:34:31,436 --> 00:34:34,596
Speaker 1: We're always really listening to each other. And for me

613
00:34:34,716 --> 00:34:38,036
Speaker 1: on guitar, there's certain songs where like the chords of

614
00:34:38,076 --> 00:34:39,756
Speaker 1: the chords, and I have to play the chords. But

615
00:34:39,836 --> 00:34:43,316
Speaker 1: even with those maybe nobody notices, but I'm I'm putting

616
00:34:43,316 --> 00:34:46,876
Speaker 1: notes in the chords that weren't in the chord on

617
00:34:46,916 --> 00:34:50,276
Speaker 1: the record. There's sometimes what I'm the difference is subtle

618
00:34:50,916 --> 00:34:55,436
Speaker 1: and sometimes the difference is extreme. And this is just

619
00:34:55,636 --> 00:34:59,156
Speaker 1: in the guitar parts. Like Flee and I are always

620
00:34:59,196 --> 00:35:02,876
Speaker 1: throwing in little extra riffs, like Anthony says a line

621
00:35:02,916 --> 00:35:05,956
Speaker 1: and Fleet does a little riff, and then he says

622
00:35:05,996 --> 00:35:07,916
Speaker 1: another line, and I do a little riff sort of

623
00:35:08,236 --> 00:35:11,036
Speaker 1: imitation of what Flee did or something, you know, and

624
00:35:11,076 --> 00:35:14,036
Speaker 1: then or I'll do something some certain weird kind of

625
00:35:14,036 --> 00:35:17,556
Speaker 1: fast rhythm and a solo, and then Chad responds by

626
00:35:17,636 --> 00:35:20,196
Speaker 1: doing that same rhythm as a as a drum fill.

627
00:35:20,396 --> 00:35:24,716
Speaker 1: Like it's not just during the instrumental sections that we're improvising.

628
00:35:24,756 --> 00:35:27,276
Speaker 1: We're doing it all the time. And can you hear

629
00:35:27,276 --> 00:35:29,316
Speaker 1: each other well enough to be able to play off

630
00:35:29,316 --> 00:35:31,116
Speaker 1: each other in that way? Yeah, we can hear each

631
00:35:31,156 --> 00:35:34,836
Speaker 1: other really well. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, I'm always surprised

632
00:35:34,916 --> 00:35:37,396
Speaker 1: Cha Chad really hears every little thing I do. Like

633
00:35:37,436 --> 00:35:40,676
Speaker 1: there's tons of moments during the show where I do

634
00:35:40,756 --> 00:35:43,476
Speaker 1: something that I think is subtle that he's not going

635
00:35:43,516 --> 00:35:46,676
Speaker 1: to notice, and he either shows me that he notices

636
00:35:47,716 --> 00:35:50,916
Speaker 1: by playing a certain thing in response or he or

637
00:35:51,036 --> 00:35:53,636
Speaker 1: by looking at me a certain way or something. And

638
00:35:53,676 --> 00:35:59,036
Speaker 1: then depending on how Flee does something new, might that

639
00:35:59,196 --> 00:36:03,036
Speaker 1: impact what you do new in relation to it? Yeah, exactly,

640
00:36:03,076 --> 00:36:06,476
Speaker 1: Like like like just bouncing off each other as ibas

641
00:36:06,516 --> 00:36:09,236
Speaker 1: all the time, that's what we're always doing. Yeah, so

642
00:36:09,356 --> 00:36:13,516
Speaker 1: let's keep it so fresh. It does, like the set

643
00:36:13,516 --> 00:36:16,756
Speaker 1: list always changes, but I feel like even if it didn't,

644
00:36:16,796 --> 00:36:20,516
Speaker 1: I would be creatively satisfied up there because that type

645
00:36:20,516 --> 00:36:23,716
Speaker 1: of interaction it means so much to me, especially because

646
00:36:24,436 --> 00:36:27,756
Speaker 1: the weird part of it is that nothing ever falls apart,

647
00:36:27,916 --> 00:36:31,076
Speaker 1: Like we're doing all these things that are only done

648
00:36:31,076 --> 00:36:34,156
Speaker 1: that one time, and doing all this kind of interaction,

649
00:36:34,236 --> 00:36:36,636
Speaker 1: and you can you can never quite predict what the

650
00:36:36,716 --> 00:36:40,876
Speaker 1: other guys are going to do. And yet we play

651
00:36:40,956 --> 00:36:44,476
Speaker 1: like a like we're one entity. Yeah, you know, like

652
00:36:44,756 --> 00:36:48,916
Speaker 1: especially playing in these big stadiums, you're aware, like the

653
00:36:49,036 --> 00:36:52,036
Speaker 1: details of what you're doing aren't even that important. The

654
00:36:52,076 --> 00:36:57,516
Speaker 1: important thing is that you make one sound together. And

655
00:36:57,596 --> 00:37:02,316
Speaker 1: so if I'm hitting the guitar and Chad's hitting the

656
00:37:02,356 --> 00:37:05,276
Speaker 1: snare and Fleas hitting the bass all at the same time,

657
00:37:05,516 --> 00:37:09,516
Speaker 1: that's one big sound that goes out there to the back,

658
00:37:09,596 --> 00:37:11,396
Speaker 1: to the people in the back. It's like how the

659
00:37:11,436 --> 00:37:15,836
Speaker 1: pieces fit together. Yeah. Yeah, so that so to be

660
00:37:15,916 --> 00:37:19,076
Speaker 1: able to have that and to be able to make

661
00:37:19,076 --> 00:37:23,196
Speaker 1: it spontaneous at the same time is just a unique

662
00:37:23,196 --> 00:37:26,956
Speaker 1: thing that we've developed over the years. And to do

663
00:37:26,996 --> 00:37:30,556
Speaker 1: it in the context of familiar songs that the audience

664
00:37:30,596 --> 00:37:33,196
Speaker 1: can sing along with the whole time. Yeah, So it

665
00:37:33,236 --> 00:37:36,756
Speaker 1: doesn't stray so far. I mean, the song is still

666
00:37:36,836 --> 00:37:40,356
Speaker 1: the song, but it's more like the songs the scaffolding

667
00:37:40,436 --> 00:37:44,676
Speaker 1: to allow all of the interesting playing to happen. Yeah,

668
00:37:44,716 --> 00:37:47,476
Speaker 1: and we're always listening to Anthony, like the important thing.

669
00:37:47,916 --> 00:37:50,276
Speaker 1: It's part of the challenge of it. If Anthony wasn't

670
00:37:50,276 --> 00:37:55,196
Speaker 1: singing the vocals and depending on us to give him

671
00:37:55,196 --> 00:37:59,116
Speaker 1: a proper groove. Yeah, we would go further out, but like,

672
00:37:59,716 --> 00:38:01,756
Speaker 1: but got to keep it in the song because he's there.

673
00:38:01,796 --> 00:38:03,596
Speaker 1: We like, I make sure if I'm going to do

674
00:38:03,676 --> 00:38:06,356
Speaker 1: some unexpected thing and he's going to come and singing

675
00:38:06,436 --> 00:38:09,036
Speaker 1: right after I do it, I better be right on time,

676
00:38:09,316 --> 00:38:12,196
Speaker 1: you know, Like I better nail this new rhythm that

677
00:38:12,236 --> 00:38:14,636
Speaker 1: I'm trying to do because he's got to come in

678
00:38:14,636 --> 00:38:16,956
Speaker 1: and the right groove and he's got to be feeling

679
00:38:16,956 --> 00:38:20,196
Speaker 1: the right thing before he comes in. So you're always

680
00:38:20,196 --> 00:38:22,796
Speaker 1: making sure to support everybody else and to not go

681
00:38:22,916 --> 00:38:26,116
Speaker 1: off on such a tangent that you're throwing anybody else off.

682
00:38:26,796 --> 00:38:30,116
Speaker 1: Sounds super fun, it really is. It sounds it. It

683
00:38:30,196 --> 00:38:32,996
Speaker 1: just sounds like the most fun playing music. Yeah, I

684
00:38:34,116 --> 00:38:36,476
Speaker 1: I never knew growing up that it could be like that.

685
00:38:36,556 --> 00:38:39,196
Speaker 1: I don't think there were any bands that that I

686
00:38:39,276 --> 00:38:43,596
Speaker 1: was into that had that exact thing where everybody's really

687
00:38:43,636 --> 00:38:47,036
Speaker 1: listening and changing in subtle ways all the time. It's

688
00:38:47,076 --> 00:38:49,036
Speaker 1: in a different way. But the T shirt I'm wearing

689
00:38:49,116 --> 00:38:52,276
Speaker 1: King Crimson, that that lineup of them was really good

690
00:38:52,276 --> 00:38:55,596
Speaker 1: in that way, Like they like that when I think

691
00:38:55,596 --> 00:38:57,436
Speaker 1: of who did I like when I was a teenager,

692
00:38:58,276 --> 00:39:01,836
Speaker 1: that showed me that that was possible. That's probably the

693
00:39:01,876 --> 00:39:05,356
Speaker 1: closest thing. Yeah. Yeah, most most groups when I was

694
00:39:05,396 --> 00:39:07,436
Speaker 1: growing up, you just assumed that the song is the song,

695
00:39:07,476 --> 00:39:09,876
Speaker 1: and the band plays the song. It might sound different

696
00:39:09,876 --> 00:39:12,916
Speaker 1: for one reason or another, but and for most bands,

697
00:39:12,916 --> 00:39:14,956
Speaker 1: that's what it was. For most bands, that what it was.

698
00:39:15,036 --> 00:39:18,076
Speaker 1: That's why I feel like the Chili Peppers is such

699
00:39:18,116 --> 00:39:22,276
Speaker 1: an unusual thing. Live there's so much more life in

700
00:39:22,356 --> 00:39:26,316
Speaker 1: it than the live version of the record. Right, It's

701
00:39:26,356 --> 00:39:30,436
Speaker 1: so much more musical. Even when you can't hear what's different,

702
00:39:31,276 --> 00:39:34,996
Speaker 1: I subconsciously feel there's more going on, right, and it's

703
00:39:35,236 --> 00:39:37,436
Speaker 1: and it doesn't feel like MOR's going on and it's

704
00:39:37,436 --> 00:39:40,556
Speaker 1: screwing it up, which can also happen. It doesn't feel

705
00:39:40,596 --> 00:39:45,476
Speaker 1: like that. It feels like a mind expanded version of it. Yeah.

706
00:39:45,596 --> 00:39:49,676
Speaker 1: In learning other people's music, I always notice that there's

707
00:39:49,716 --> 00:39:55,316
Speaker 1: sometimes the hardest things to memorize are apparently very simple

708
00:39:55,356 --> 00:39:58,956
Speaker 1: things like it's much easier to learn what sounds like

709
00:39:58,956 --> 00:40:03,076
Speaker 1: an impressive kind of busy guitar solo than it is

710
00:40:03,116 --> 00:40:07,156
Speaker 1: to learn a rhythm guitar part that doesn't repeat itself

711
00:40:07,196 --> 00:40:09,996
Speaker 1: too much, that keeps changing and s little ways for

712
00:40:10,076 --> 00:40:13,156
Speaker 1: five minutes straight. That's actually a lot harder for the

713
00:40:13,236 --> 00:40:17,316
Speaker 1: brain to memorize what sounds like it's the easiest thing

714
00:40:17,316 --> 00:40:19,116
Speaker 1: in the world. Would actually be a real pain in

715
00:40:19,156 --> 00:40:21,956
Speaker 1: the ass to sit there and memorize in comparison to

716
00:40:22,196 --> 00:40:25,356
Speaker 1: what sounds like a hard to play solo and always

717
00:40:26,316 --> 00:40:29,396
Speaker 1: that the guitarist who's playing it doesn't even know it. Yeah, exactly.

718
00:40:29,436 --> 00:40:32,676
Speaker 1: That's what I mean, is to memorize something because those

719
00:40:32,676 --> 00:40:35,756
Speaker 1: are that's not really a part so much as somebody

720
00:40:35,796 --> 00:40:39,476
Speaker 1: playing along yeah to something like like say funk Adelic,

721
00:40:39,716 --> 00:40:41,436
Speaker 1: like has a lot of stuff like this where they're

722
00:40:41,476 --> 00:40:44,516
Speaker 1: clearly they're guys in a room jamming with each other

723
00:40:44,556 --> 00:40:48,436
Speaker 1: and it became a song. But there wasn't a flat

724
00:40:48,516 --> 00:40:50,916
Speaker 1: like this is the guitar part. You repeat this every

725
00:40:50,956 --> 00:40:54,556
Speaker 1: four bars like that's the verse the other there's there's

726
00:40:54,596 --> 00:40:57,876
Speaker 1: a lot of sort of rhythm guitar parts that just

727
00:40:58,596 --> 00:41:00,956
Speaker 1: they flow from the beginning of the song to the end.

728
00:41:00,996 --> 00:41:05,236
Speaker 1: They're not a repetitive pattern, but feels like a groove

729
00:41:05,676 --> 00:41:07,796
Speaker 1: from beginning to end, you know what I mean? Like

730
00:41:08,276 --> 00:41:11,476
Speaker 1: those things, there's something in the brain that just doesn't

731
00:41:11,716 --> 00:41:14,796
Speaker 1: want to memorize something when it's that simple. Yet it

732
00:41:14,876 --> 00:41:18,116
Speaker 1: keeps changing. But it's beautiful to listen to. It's like

733
00:41:18,156 --> 00:41:20,356
Speaker 1: it feels more like you're looking at the ocean or

734
00:41:20,396 --> 00:41:22,876
Speaker 1: watching the clouds move in the sky or something. To

735
00:41:22,956 --> 00:41:28,876
Speaker 1: listen to. This a much more natural, random quality that's

736
00:41:29,196 --> 00:41:34,276
Speaker 1: more real than the same perfect cloud every time. You know,

737
00:41:34,356 --> 00:41:36,796
Speaker 1: to say, what would it be like if every wave

738
00:41:36,916 --> 00:41:40,076
Speaker 1: was the same wave, It's not so interesting. Yeah, So

739
00:41:40,116 --> 00:41:42,596
Speaker 1: it's the kind of things like cha Chad notices when

740
00:41:42,636 --> 00:41:44,916
Speaker 1: I'm say I'm playing a funk rhythm, and the funk

741
00:41:44,956 --> 00:41:47,076
Speaker 1: rhythm on the record is one thing, and I'm playing

742
00:41:47,076 --> 00:41:50,356
Speaker 1: a different rhythm. He hears that I'm doing a unique

743
00:41:50,356 --> 00:41:53,916
Speaker 1: thing that's only happening on that one night. Could be

744
00:41:54,116 --> 00:41:56,516
Speaker 1: nobody in the audience even notices that I'm doing anything

745
00:41:56,516 --> 00:41:58,676
Speaker 1: different because it still sounds like the song. You know.

746
00:42:00,356 --> 00:42:02,076
Speaker 1: We have to take another quick break here, and then

747
00:42:02,076 --> 00:42:04,916
Speaker 1: we'll come back with more from Rick Rubin and John Fashante,

748
00:42:04,916 --> 00:42:06,676
Speaker 1: who will play through some of his most well known

749
00:42:06,716 --> 00:42:13,956
Speaker 1: guitar parts and dissect them. We're back with the rest

750
00:42:13,996 --> 00:42:17,716
Speaker 1: of Rick's conversation with Santa I thought it would be fun.

751
00:42:17,716 --> 00:42:20,076
Speaker 1: I just wrote before I came here, I wrote down

752
00:42:20,076 --> 00:42:23,196
Speaker 1: a bunch of songs to talk about the guitar parts,

753
00:42:23,196 --> 00:42:28,196
Speaker 1: just to see what comes up. Okay, you know, hopefully

754
00:42:28,276 --> 00:42:30,356
Speaker 1: I remember them. Yeah, and if not, we can even

755
00:42:30,356 --> 00:42:32,676
Speaker 1: listen to a little reference. Yeah, if I heard. I

756
00:42:32,716 --> 00:42:36,036
Speaker 1: started with Californication, because I think that's where we left

757
00:42:36,076 --> 00:42:40,476
Speaker 1: off our conversation. I think did we talk everything about

758
00:42:40,476 --> 00:42:43,076
Speaker 1: Californication last time or just I feel like we touched

759
00:42:43,116 --> 00:42:44,756
Speaker 1: on it. But it wouldn't hurt if we're gonna if

760
00:42:44,756 --> 00:42:47,636
Speaker 1: we're gonna go through the other through Californication by the

761
00:42:47,636 --> 00:42:50,156
Speaker 1: way and stadium, it might be good to talk a

762
00:42:50,196 --> 00:42:54,956
Speaker 1: bit about more about Californication. Yeah, so going into that project,

763
00:42:55,676 --> 00:42:58,636
Speaker 1: you're back in the band. I remember we talked about

764
00:42:58,636 --> 00:43:00,236
Speaker 1: you being out of the band. I think we talked

765
00:43:00,236 --> 00:43:02,436
Speaker 1: about you coming back to the band. Yeah, right, I

766
00:43:02,476 --> 00:43:04,716
Speaker 1: think I think where we left off when we talked

767
00:43:04,716 --> 00:43:06,796
Speaker 1: about it was I was kind of talking about how

768
00:43:07,076 --> 00:43:09,876
Speaker 1: my technique wasn't where it had been, so I had

769
00:43:09,916 --> 00:43:12,716
Speaker 1: to come up with a different style of playing and

770
00:43:13,156 --> 00:43:15,956
Speaker 1: be inspired by more like new wave guitar players as

771
00:43:15,996 --> 00:43:20,436
Speaker 1: opposed to guitar hero kind of guitar players and found

772
00:43:20,436 --> 00:43:23,476
Speaker 1: a style from that when they asked me to be

773
00:43:23,516 --> 00:43:27,556
Speaker 1: in the group again, Like especially at that time, I

774
00:43:27,556 --> 00:43:30,796
Speaker 1: had for years at that point I thought I would

775
00:43:30,836 --> 00:43:34,876
Speaker 1: never make music again, and even when I did start

776
00:43:34,876 --> 00:43:36,716
Speaker 1: to want to make music, didn't feel that I could

777
00:43:36,716 --> 00:43:41,236
Speaker 1: ever make music that would touch people again. Didn't feel

778
00:43:41,236 --> 00:43:43,596
Speaker 1: I could make a good sound with my voice anymore.

779
00:43:44,116 --> 00:43:48,756
Speaker 1: I'd had extensive dental stuff and singing was much more

780
00:43:48,796 --> 00:43:51,876
Speaker 1: difficult than it had ever been, And didn't feel that

781
00:43:51,956 --> 00:43:54,556
Speaker 1: I could ever again make a beautiful sound with my voice,

782
00:43:55,156 --> 00:43:58,916
Speaker 1: and felt like I was missing whatever that thing was

783
00:43:59,156 --> 00:44:01,836
Speaker 1: that had once been able to touch people with music.

784
00:44:02,396 --> 00:44:07,596
Speaker 1: And yet to those guys, I was the same as

785
00:44:07,676 --> 00:44:10,276
Speaker 1: I'd ever been like, and I don't think I had

786
00:44:10,316 --> 00:44:14,076
Speaker 1: any other friends who saw me that way, you know,

787
00:44:14,236 --> 00:44:18,956
Speaker 1: like Anthony and Flee specifically, like their belief in me

788
00:44:20,036 --> 00:44:23,756
Speaker 1: made me able to be reborn. At that time, like

789
00:44:23,996 --> 00:44:26,876
Speaker 1: I had tried to start bands with other people and

790
00:44:26,916 --> 00:44:30,236
Speaker 1: stuff like that, there was there was no magic in it,

791
00:44:30,356 --> 00:44:35,236
Speaker 1: no magic coming from me. And from playing with them

792
00:44:35,316 --> 00:44:38,116
Speaker 1: that started, I started to feel like there I was

793
00:44:38,156 --> 00:44:40,796
Speaker 1: generating magic, you know, Like there was a really neat

794
00:44:40,836 --> 00:44:43,956
Speaker 1: time in that way, and especially because we really believed

795
00:44:43,956 --> 00:44:46,836
Speaker 1: in our in ourselves and what we were doing, even

796
00:44:46,916 --> 00:44:51,276
Speaker 1: if like the record company didn't seem particularly interested, you know,

797
00:44:51,356 --> 00:44:54,476
Speaker 1: like like we were just very excited about about what

798
00:44:54,516 --> 00:44:59,156
Speaker 1: we were doing and ended up carrying us through you know. Yeah,

799
00:44:59,156 --> 00:45:02,076
Speaker 1: And the real exciting thing for me about that time

800
00:45:02,196 --> 00:45:06,196
Speaker 1: was just sort of starting from a place where where

801
00:45:06,276 --> 00:45:09,716
Speaker 1: we were able to take those melodic sort of ideas

802
00:45:09,756 --> 00:45:13,876
Speaker 1: that we'd done on the slower, softer songs on Blood

803
00:45:13,916 --> 00:45:19,636
Speaker 1: Sugar and combine that with the energy of the other

804
00:45:19,716 --> 00:45:22,836
Speaker 1: types of funk things that we did, and for me

805
00:45:22,916 --> 00:45:24,836
Speaker 1: to be able to play guitar in a way that

806
00:45:26,196 --> 00:45:31,156
Speaker 1: has some blues aspects in some parts, but but had

807
00:45:31,276 --> 00:45:34,676
Speaker 1: more of a more of an influence coming from the

808
00:45:34,756 --> 00:45:39,596
Speaker 1: late seventies and early eighties new wave what's now called

809
00:45:39,756 --> 00:45:43,236
Speaker 1: post punk, that I was finding ways to incorporate those

810
00:45:43,276 --> 00:45:48,236
Speaker 1: influences more than I had previously, and I was depending

811
00:45:48,276 --> 00:45:53,396
Speaker 1: on Hellel's style less than I ever had. Like I

812
00:45:53,476 --> 00:45:56,676
Speaker 1: was able to really like find a like there was

813
00:45:56,716 --> 00:45:59,836
Speaker 1: a place for that Hellel influence stuff. It's certainly there

814
00:45:59,836 --> 00:46:04,436
Speaker 1: on Californication, but all those things like Californication and other

815
00:46:04,516 --> 00:46:08,756
Speaker 1: Side and easily, and you know, all these all these songs,

816
00:46:08,756 --> 00:46:11,556
Speaker 1: they were just I felt like it was a style

817
00:46:11,596 --> 00:46:14,636
Speaker 1: that I was creating specifically for the band, and it

818
00:46:14,916 --> 00:46:18,556
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard those things go together before, you know,

819
00:46:19,036 --> 00:46:21,276
Speaker 1: I think I before I had had a fixed idea

820
00:46:21,276 --> 00:46:24,316
Speaker 1: of what Flea's role is supposed to be or what

821
00:46:24,756 --> 00:46:27,716
Speaker 1: my role is supposed to be. And I just started

822
00:46:27,756 --> 00:46:29,716
Speaker 1: to be able to find that I could put those

823
00:46:29,756 --> 00:46:33,916
Speaker 1: things aside, you know, Scar Tissue just play things that

824
00:46:33,996 --> 00:46:38,156
Speaker 1: really sounded like nobody but me, and it worked really

825
00:46:38,156 --> 00:46:40,396
Speaker 1: perfectly in the context of the band, and everybody just

826
00:46:40,476 --> 00:46:42,436
Speaker 1: made it better. It did seem like some of the

827
00:46:42,516 --> 00:46:46,916
Speaker 1: influence writing wise were more from synth based bands. You're

828
00:46:46,916 --> 00:46:50,836
Speaker 1: playing guitars in the band, but the songwriting didn't necessarily

829
00:46:50,836 --> 00:46:54,276
Speaker 1: sound like guitar based music. Yeah, because my favorite music

830
00:46:54,316 --> 00:46:59,076
Speaker 1: at that time was like Massive Attack and Tricky and

831
00:46:59,316 --> 00:47:03,436
Speaker 1: depeche Mode and The Human League, and I was listening

832
00:47:03,436 --> 00:47:06,036
Speaker 1: to all this electronic music. It was actually really hard

833
00:47:06,076 --> 00:47:09,596
Speaker 1: at first because similar to what I was saying about

834
00:47:09,396 --> 00:47:14,356
Speaker 1: the current time, in a different way, when I first joined,

835
00:47:14,436 --> 00:47:17,876
Speaker 1: I found rehearsal seemed really boring. If I listened to

836
00:47:17,876 --> 00:47:20,036
Speaker 1: the kind of music I liked to listen to before

837
00:47:20,076 --> 00:47:22,316
Speaker 1: I went to rehearsal. So like if I started my

838
00:47:22,396 --> 00:47:26,316
Speaker 1: day listening to like depeche Mode and Massive Attack, if

839
00:47:26,356 --> 00:47:30,396
Speaker 1: I went to rehearsal, I would just be sitting there thinking, God,

840
00:47:30,436 --> 00:47:33,516
Speaker 1: we sound really boring, and you know, like this sounds

841
00:47:33,556 --> 00:47:38,556
Speaker 1: like it didn't have anything textually interesting about it. It

842
00:47:38,596 --> 00:47:41,716
Speaker 1: seemed like a bland kind of color. So I had

843
00:47:41,756 --> 00:47:47,436
Speaker 1: to force myself to listen to guitar based music, and

844
00:47:48,236 --> 00:47:51,516
Speaker 1: I found that there were a small amount of certain

845
00:47:51,876 --> 00:47:55,356
Speaker 1: guitar based things that seemed to my ears seemed as

846
00:47:55,356 --> 00:47:59,236
Speaker 1: colorful as depeche Mode and those things I mentioned, But

847
00:47:59,316 --> 00:48:02,356
Speaker 1: it wasn't a whole lot of rock things again, you know.

848
00:48:02,396 --> 00:48:04,956
Speaker 1: It was when I would get home from rehearsal, the

849
00:48:04,996 --> 00:48:07,196
Speaker 1: first thing I do would be put on Depeche Mode,

850
00:48:07,316 --> 00:48:09,716
Speaker 1: you know, like like that was really what I wanted

851
00:48:09,756 --> 00:48:12,596
Speaker 1: to hear, and would have loved to go to rehearsal

852
00:48:12,636 --> 00:48:14,876
Speaker 1: and have a drum machine guy sitting there, you know,

853
00:48:14,956 --> 00:48:18,356
Speaker 1: like roods really wanting to hear drum machines. But that

854
00:48:18,396 --> 00:48:20,876
Speaker 1: pattern worked out really well because those things, because I

855
00:48:20,876 --> 00:48:23,516
Speaker 1: could warm up to the ramones. I was really into

856
00:48:23,556 --> 00:48:26,236
Speaker 1: warm up to the Ramones and Fugazi and the Yardbirds

857
00:48:26,236 --> 00:48:30,076
Speaker 1: and stuff, and then and then go to rehearsal and

858
00:48:30,316 --> 00:48:34,196
Speaker 1: something about that combination of that. On one hand, I'm

859
00:48:34,236 --> 00:48:36,956
Speaker 1: inspired by these other people who've done things with guitar,

860
00:48:37,076 --> 00:48:39,436
Speaker 1: and on the other hand, the melodic things that are

861
00:48:39,476 --> 00:48:42,396
Speaker 1: exciting to me are coming from this other style of

862
00:48:42,476 --> 00:48:45,676
Speaker 1: music that's done with other types of Did you ever

863
00:48:45,716 --> 00:48:50,156
Speaker 1: hear the acoustic depeche Mode demos? Yeah, I'm familiar with

864
00:48:50,196 --> 00:48:52,676
Speaker 1: some of their demos, bootlegs of them and stuff. They're

865
00:48:52,716 --> 00:48:55,476
Speaker 1: acoustic lens where's either on the piano or guitar. And

866
00:48:55,476 --> 00:48:57,716
Speaker 1: it's interesting because I think most of the songs were

867
00:48:57,716 --> 00:49:02,996
Speaker 1: written with traditional instruments and then turn into Depeche Mode songs. Yeah,

868
00:49:03,036 --> 00:49:04,916
Speaker 1: but yeah, in the early days he used Martin Gore

869
00:49:04,996 --> 00:49:09,076
Speaker 1: used to make like synth demos that were pretty developed,

870
00:49:09,156 --> 00:49:10,596
Speaker 1: like you must have done them on like a four

871
00:49:10,676 --> 00:49:13,196
Speaker 1: track or an eight track or something, and a lot

872
00:49:13,236 --> 00:49:15,436
Speaker 1: of those they're kind of just like a shitty or

873
00:49:15,476 --> 00:49:18,556
Speaker 1: sounding version of what wound up on the record. But

874
00:49:18,596 --> 00:49:21,796
Speaker 1: I think as time went by he started bringing the

875
00:49:21,876 --> 00:49:25,076
Speaker 1: songs in more just on guitar, so the producer and

876
00:49:25,236 --> 00:49:28,196
Speaker 1: Alan Wilder and stuff, could come up with more of

877
00:49:28,196 --> 00:49:31,036
Speaker 1: an electronic vision of it. They got really good results

878
00:49:31,076 --> 00:49:34,396
Speaker 1: from doing it that way both ways though, But anyways, Yeah,

879
00:49:34,436 --> 00:49:40,956
Speaker 1: so the sense of melody there on Californication had definitely

880
00:49:41,316 --> 00:49:44,436
Speaker 1: more of a Even though the sound of the band

881
00:49:44,596 --> 00:49:48,396
Speaker 1: is more like sixties seventies music, the melodic aspect had

882
00:49:48,436 --> 00:49:50,516
Speaker 1: a lot more to do with things that were more

883
00:49:50,556 --> 00:49:53,036
Speaker 1: modern at the time. Can you grab the guitar because

884
00:49:53,036 --> 00:49:55,836
Speaker 1: there's we could talk about, like a song like, let's

885
00:49:55,836 --> 00:49:58,036
Speaker 1: talk about other Side. That'd be a good one too.

886
00:49:58,396 --> 00:50:02,196
Speaker 1: That see that that guitar part. You can't play it

887
00:50:02,276 --> 00:50:07,036
Speaker 1: without the bass part because because because it's uh, it

888
00:50:07,076 --> 00:50:09,196
Speaker 1: wouldn't sound Yeah, it doesn't sound like the song. It

889
00:50:09,516 --> 00:50:16,716
Speaker 1: sounds like a part of it. It's just because we're Yeah,

890
00:50:16,756 --> 00:50:21,476
Speaker 1: he's playing notes that are basically between but they're they're different.

891
00:50:21,756 --> 00:50:24,436
Speaker 1: They're different notes, but they're basically the same rhythm. But

892
00:50:24,516 --> 00:50:28,276
Speaker 1: together it forms together they form a chord. Yeah, how

893
00:50:28,276 --> 00:50:29,916
Speaker 1: did that get written? How did it? How did it

894
00:50:29,956 --> 00:50:49,516
Speaker 1: come to be like that? I came in with, yeah,

895
00:50:49,996 --> 00:50:53,476
Speaker 1: something like that. It was those chords, and then I

896
00:50:53,516 --> 00:50:55,396
Speaker 1: think I started by playing them, but I had a

897
00:50:55,396 --> 00:50:57,636
Speaker 1: plan before I had even gone in I was like,

898
00:50:57,676 --> 00:51:00,636
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with those chords, but I'm gonna wait

899
00:51:00,676 --> 00:51:02,596
Speaker 1: for him to start to fuck around with it, and

900
00:51:02,596 --> 00:51:05,196
Speaker 1: then I'm gonna start. I think I already had that

901
00:51:05,236 --> 00:51:07,476
Speaker 1: melody in my head. I knew that that would that

902
00:51:07,476 --> 00:51:09,996
Speaker 1: that melody would sound good with those chords, so I

903
00:51:10,036 --> 00:51:12,836
Speaker 1: started playing them, figuring he would pick up on the chords.

904
00:51:13,036 --> 00:51:16,876
Speaker 1: Are all of the songs that work where it's the

905
00:51:16,956 --> 00:51:20,516
Speaker 1: guitar and the bass making chords? Do they always start

906
00:51:20,556 --> 00:51:24,076
Speaker 1: as on the writing side? Did they start as traditional

907
00:51:25,196 --> 00:51:28,956
Speaker 1: chords that then turn into I don't know about always,

908
00:51:28,996 --> 00:51:32,276
Speaker 1: because because we did that was something like other side,

909
00:51:32,316 --> 00:51:35,516
Speaker 1: and we gradually realized that that was a thing we

910
00:51:35,596 --> 00:51:38,236
Speaker 1: could do, so you could start writing in that style

911
00:51:38,356 --> 00:51:41,876
Speaker 1: without ever starting with the original chords. I think so

912
00:51:42,196 --> 00:51:45,116
Speaker 1: that's interesting. I think so because I'm I'm pretty sure

913
00:51:45,676 --> 00:51:48,716
Speaker 1: when we're doing it later on the song by the way, Yeah,

914
00:51:48,996 --> 00:51:52,236
Speaker 1: I don't think we've figured out the chords. I think

915
00:51:53,396 --> 00:51:55,716
Speaker 1: maybe the chords still that was still sort of our

916
00:51:55,796 --> 00:51:57,436
Speaker 1: version of the chords from the chorse. I know that

917
00:51:57,996 --> 00:52:00,556
Speaker 1: they're not exactly the chords from the chorus and the

918
00:52:00,596 --> 00:52:03,236
Speaker 1: intro to by the way, there's definitely like we were.

919
00:52:03,916 --> 00:52:08,836
Speaker 1: It was a looser interpretation of it than but I

920
00:52:08,916 --> 00:52:10,676
Speaker 1: know it is a way that we can play now

921
00:52:10,716 --> 00:52:13,596
Speaker 1: like we do our Californication intro, where we're just like

922
00:52:14,556 --> 00:52:17,436
Speaker 1: playing you know, fast notes all at the same time

923
00:52:17,436 --> 00:52:21,556
Speaker 1: and playing different things and still we lock up again.

924
00:52:21,836 --> 00:52:24,796
Speaker 1: There is a chord change that's implied in it. Yeah,

925
00:52:24,876 --> 00:52:26,836
Speaker 1: it does help to have to be able to do

926
00:52:26,876 --> 00:52:28,676
Speaker 1: that on a guitar and a bass. It's good to

927
00:52:28,716 --> 00:52:31,596
Speaker 1: have an invisible chord that you both know what it is,

928
00:52:31,996 --> 00:52:34,716
Speaker 1: you know, because then you know you know the framework

929
00:52:34,756 --> 00:52:37,196
Speaker 1: of where you can go. Yeah, and it makes you

930
00:52:37,316 --> 00:52:40,876
Speaker 1: be able to sound connected yea, even though there's no

931
00:52:40,916 --> 00:52:43,476
Speaker 1: apparent reason to the listener why you should be connected,

932
00:52:43,476 --> 00:52:45,636
Speaker 1: because you seem to both be doing different things, but

933
00:52:45,676 --> 00:52:48,996
Speaker 1: you're both thinking a minor f whatever it is, and

934
00:52:49,076 --> 00:52:53,156
Speaker 1: that what's interesting about that is that's like depeche Mode

935
00:52:53,156 --> 00:52:56,356
Speaker 1: writing a song on guitar or piano and turning it

936
00:52:56,396 --> 00:52:58,996
Speaker 1: into a depeche Mode song where the chords are implied.

937
00:52:59,196 --> 00:53:01,476
Speaker 1: Even though there might not be an instrument playing the

938
00:53:01,556 --> 00:53:06,556
Speaker 1: chords exactly. The composition of the different sounds give you

939
00:53:06,596 --> 00:53:09,556
Speaker 1: the feeling that there's a chord happening, but it's invisible

940
00:53:09,636 --> 00:53:14,716
Speaker 1: chord right exactly. Yeah, So I think that Californication time,

941
00:53:14,756 --> 00:53:17,956
Speaker 1: I was so excited about what happened when we just

942
00:53:17,996 --> 00:53:21,196
Speaker 1: walked into a room together and started playing, as opposed

943
00:53:21,236 --> 00:53:24,916
Speaker 1: to sitting there with the whole thing of like, well,

944
00:53:24,956 --> 00:53:27,996
Speaker 1: here's my song I wrote at home, I'm gonna show

945
00:53:28,036 --> 00:53:30,636
Speaker 1: it to you, Like I wanted to try to avoid that.

946
00:53:30,756 --> 00:53:33,756
Speaker 1: I felt like that that whole setup and that whole

947
00:53:33,836 --> 00:53:36,476
Speaker 1: like because I used to play games with it. At

948
00:53:36,476 --> 00:53:39,516
Speaker 1: Blood Sugar time, I had this act I would put

949
00:53:39,516 --> 00:53:41,196
Speaker 1: on where I would act like what I was about

950
00:53:41,196 --> 00:53:43,996
Speaker 1: to play with shitty. I thought it was good, but

951
00:53:44,076 --> 00:53:46,356
Speaker 1: I found that I was getting the best reaction from

952
00:53:46,396 --> 00:53:49,676
Speaker 1: them if if I acted like it was some no

953
00:53:49,716 --> 00:53:52,556
Speaker 1: big deal, you know, they would they were more supportable

954
00:53:52,956 --> 00:53:55,476
Speaker 1: or something. So there would always be the setup to it.

955
00:53:55,516 --> 00:53:59,316
Speaker 1: So by calib Fleet did the same thing. I mean,

956
00:53:59,356 --> 00:54:01,676
Speaker 1: I don't know how much an act necessarily, but but

957
00:54:02,076 --> 00:54:05,276
Speaker 1: but yeah, like it really used to feel like if

958
00:54:05,356 --> 00:54:07,796
Speaker 1: you acted like you were not confident with what you

959
00:54:07,796 --> 00:54:09,596
Speaker 1: were doing, or if you weren't confid and what you

960
00:54:09,636 --> 00:54:11,676
Speaker 1: were doing, the other guys would be supportive of you

961
00:54:11,756 --> 00:54:14,956
Speaker 1: and stuff and and whereas if you walked in and said, like,

962
00:54:15,236 --> 00:54:17,436
Speaker 1: I got this riff, It's the best fucking riff you've

963
00:54:17,436 --> 00:54:19,516
Speaker 1: ever heard in your life, you just weren't going to

964
00:54:19,556 --> 00:54:24,756
Speaker 1: get a good reaction from him, you know. So so yeah,

965
00:54:24,756 --> 00:54:29,916
Speaker 1: so I'm starting to realize like, like I don't have

966
00:54:29,956 --> 00:54:32,076
Speaker 1: to say anything. I can come in with those because

967
00:54:32,116 --> 00:54:34,076
Speaker 1: I don't know how I knew those would go. But

968
00:54:34,276 --> 00:54:37,596
Speaker 1: maybe I'd recorded him on a cassette recorder and I

969
00:54:37,716 --> 00:54:41,196
Speaker 1: was just I was probably playing these chords, and I

970
00:54:41,236 --> 00:54:44,596
Speaker 1: was playing guitar to the cassette recorder, and I was

971
00:54:44,596 --> 00:54:49,636
Speaker 1: probably going bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum

972
00:54:49,716 --> 00:54:55,836
Speaker 1: bum bum bum bum. So I knew the two things

973
00:54:55,876 --> 00:54:57,436
Speaker 1: went together good. But I was like, I'm not going

974
00:54:57,516 --> 00:54:59,796
Speaker 1: to go in and show fully, so hey, man, play

975
00:54:59,836 --> 00:55:02,876
Speaker 1: a f see you know what I mean. I'm just

976
00:55:02,916 --> 00:55:04,516
Speaker 1: going to go in and play the chords and see

977
00:55:04,556 --> 00:55:08,596
Speaker 1: what happens. And you know, like ten minutes later, like

978
00:55:08,676 --> 00:55:11,996
Speaker 1: we had to, it's beautiful, you know thing where we're

979
00:55:11,996 --> 00:55:15,276
Speaker 1: weaving in and out of each other and he's going

980
00:55:15,356 --> 00:55:17,156
Speaker 1: up when I'm going down, and all you know, it's

981
00:55:17,196 --> 00:55:20,556
Speaker 1: just like when I when I hear it, it definitely

982
00:55:20,596 --> 00:55:23,996
Speaker 1: makes me wonder how it happens, you know, like, it's

983
00:55:24,036 --> 00:55:27,476
Speaker 1: not that it I mean, it works together so magically

984
00:55:28,356 --> 00:55:32,516
Speaker 1: that without me knowing that there is an invisible chord

985
00:55:32,556 --> 00:55:36,916
Speaker 1: at play behind the scenes, it's impossible to even know

986
00:55:36,916 --> 00:55:40,596
Speaker 1: how anything like that ever gets written, right, Yeah, it's

987
00:55:40,636 --> 00:55:43,436
Speaker 1: cool when you take away the source of where something

988
00:55:43,516 --> 00:55:47,236
Speaker 1: came from, you know, Like, so it's a good device.

989
00:55:47,316 --> 00:55:50,356
Speaker 1: And in that song, is it just those chords over

990
00:55:50,396 --> 00:55:52,716
Speaker 1: and over again because the chorse is the same. Yeah, yeah,

991
00:55:52,756 --> 00:55:55,116
Speaker 1: exactly it is. So it changes from the verse of

992
00:55:55,156 --> 00:55:58,756
Speaker 1: the chorus. Well, there's the bridge is different, but the

993
00:55:58,916 --> 00:56:01,956
Speaker 1: chorus and the verse are basically the same chord progression,

994
00:56:02,236 --> 00:56:04,876
Speaker 1: the sparse version and the chord version. Yeah. I don't

995
00:56:04,876 --> 00:56:06,636
Speaker 1: even know if I actually fully play the chords. I

996
00:56:06,636 --> 00:56:12,436
Speaker 1: think Fleet just plays differently. See oh no, no, the

997
00:56:12,556 --> 00:56:15,236
Speaker 1: verse is different. Sorry, Yeah, the verse has a different

998
00:56:15,236 --> 00:56:36,716
Speaker 1: guitar part. So yeah, that's that's the verse guitar part.

999
00:56:36,836 --> 00:56:39,276
Speaker 1: So that other part is the chorus and rather than

1000
00:56:39,396 --> 00:56:42,836
Speaker 1: play the chords, Flee and I had that thing worked

1001
00:56:42,836 --> 00:56:46,076
Speaker 1: out that we did, and then that verse also feels

1002
00:56:46,116 --> 00:56:50,716
Speaker 1: like that would also make the guitar part in the

1003
00:56:50,836 --> 00:56:54,236
Speaker 1: chorus seem less like it's related to chords, because what

1004
00:56:54,276 --> 00:56:57,796
Speaker 1: you just played for the verse doesn't seem related to chords.

1005
00:56:58,836 --> 00:57:01,396
Speaker 1: It is. It's a to e Okay, you know, just

1006
00:57:01,676 --> 00:57:03,396
Speaker 1: it feels more like a riff because the way you're

1007
00:57:03,396 --> 00:57:07,156
Speaker 1: playing it. Yeah, because that that, Yeah, I like that idea.

1008
00:57:08,236 --> 00:57:13,556
Speaker 1: I was of putting big intervals between the notes and

1009
00:57:13,596 --> 00:57:16,676
Speaker 1: a guitar using using the guitar itself to create a

1010
00:57:16,716 --> 00:57:19,756
Speaker 1: sense of space. So with that guitar, those two notes

1011
00:57:19,756 --> 00:57:24,116
Speaker 1: are so far apart from each other and there's so

1012
00:57:24,196 --> 00:57:28,076
Speaker 1: much space between them. It seemed like it gives space

1013
00:57:28,156 --> 00:57:29,996
Speaker 1: to the rest of the band to fill it, to

1014
00:57:30,076 --> 00:57:31,996
Speaker 1: fill it in, as opposed to if I was playing

1015
00:57:31,996 --> 00:57:40,156
Speaker 1: the full chord, it would be like, you know, to me,

1016
00:57:40,276 --> 00:57:43,476
Speaker 1: that's less meaning. There's more going on, and it's less meaningful.

1017
00:57:43,556 --> 00:57:47,476
Speaker 1: So I was just I really like that guitarist Ricky

1018
00:57:47,516 --> 00:57:50,956
Speaker 1: Wilson from the B fifty twos, he had this way

1019
00:57:50,996 --> 00:57:54,516
Speaker 1: of playing where he just had he only had four strings.

1020
00:57:54,516 --> 00:57:57,436
Speaker 1: He had the low two strings and the high two

1021
00:57:57,476 --> 00:58:00,396
Speaker 1: strings were tuned to the same note, and he had

1022
00:58:00,516 --> 00:58:03,476
Speaker 1: no G string and no D string, and he would

1023
00:58:03,796 --> 00:58:06,996
Speaker 1: essentially be playing two different guitar parts at the same

1024
00:58:07,356 --> 00:58:10,716
Speaker 1: time because it sounds like two different guitar parts because

1025
00:58:10,836 --> 00:58:13,276
Speaker 1: he's sort of playing a bar chord on the low

1026
00:58:13,356 --> 00:58:15,996
Speaker 1: strings and then the high strings. He's playing a kind

1027
00:58:15,996 --> 00:58:19,556
Speaker 1: of a melody. And it gave him a real unique

1028
00:58:20,076 --> 00:58:23,036
Speaker 1: right hand style to be able to do that because

1029
00:58:23,076 --> 00:58:25,676
Speaker 1: sometimes they alternate, the right hand alternates from the high

1030
00:58:25,676 --> 00:58:27,796
Speaker 1: string to the low string to the high string. Sometimes

1031
00:58:27,796 --> 00:58:30,676
Speaker 1: they play at the same time, so they have two

1032
00:58:30,916 --> 00:58:34,436
Speaker 1: separate motions to them. So that was somebody who I

1033
00:58:34,476 --> 00:58:37,276
Speaker 1: know I was inspired by in that way, but it's

1034
00:58:37,316 --> 00:58:39,876
Speaker 1: something i'd just been messing around with, even a Blood

1035
00:58:39,916 --> 00:58:42,996
Speaker 1: Sugar time just and it was when I remember when

1036
00:58:42,996 --> 00:58:45,796
Speaker 1: I first did it. It was inspired by listening to him.

1037
00:58:45,956 --> 00:58:48,836
Speaker 1: But that whole sort of style of playing where you're

1038
00:58:48,876 --> 00:58:59,076
Speaker 1: going like like like so much space. Yeah, it creates

1039
00:58:59,116 --> 00:59:01,036
Speaker 1: all this space, and it makes it fun to just

1040
00:59:01,116 --> 00:59:03,716
Speaker 1: play guitar by yourself because you're kind of doing a

1041
00:59:03,756 --> 00:59:07,516
Speaker 1: bass part and you're doing a melody part. But it's

1042
00:59:07,916 --> 00:59:12,076
Speaker 1: really different than finger picking. Yeah, yeah, exactly because it's

1043
00:59:12,116 --> 00:59:15,316
Speaker 1: simpler and and but I used to just find it

1044
00:59:15,316 --> 00:59:26,276
Speaker 1: was fun to just it's more like just yeah, just improvised.

1045
00:59:26,356 --> 00:59:31,116
Speaker 1: It's like playing piano with one finger on each channel. Yeah,

1046
00:59:31,116 --> 00:59:33,436
Speaker 1: so uh so, yeah, so that other side verse part

1047
00:59:33,516 --> 00:59:38,116
Speaker 1: definitely comes from thinking that way and scar tissue. It's

1048
00:59:38,116 --> 00:59:47,076
Speaker 1: the same kind of thing, the same same kind of thing,

1049
00:59:47,196 --> 00:59:50,676
Speaker 1: just wanting to put big intervals between things. Because I'd always,

1050
00:59:50,956 --> 00:59:53,476
Speaker 1: you know, play along with music all the time. There's

1051
00:59:53,476 --> 00:59:56,676
Speaker 1: certain things like that that I'd wonder, like I'd noticed, like,

1052
00:59:56,796 --> 00:59:59,316
Speaker 1: not that many people have done this for some reason.

1053
00:59:59,396 --> 01:00:01,836
Speaker 1: It's a stupid thing, you know. It's like it's nothing

1054
01:00:02,036 --> 01:00:04,716
Speaker 1: complicated or anything, but I just hadn't heard a lot

1055
01:00:04,756 --> 01:00:07,476
Speaker 1: of people doing it. So I'm always on the lookout

1056
01:00:07,556 --> 01:00:10,316
Speaker 1: for things like that, like what I what somebody maybe

1057
01:00:10,516 --> 01:00:14,356
Speaker 1: hinted at but hasn't really done that much. I think

1058
01:00:14,356 --> 01:00:17,636
Speaker 1: some of my references for playing like that. Eric Avery

1059
01:00:17,676 --> 01:00:20,556
Speaker 1: and Jane's Addiction had a couple of bass lines that

1060
01:00:20,636 --> 01:00:30,796
Speaker 1: were like that, Yeah, he has that thing, and I

1061
01:00:30,836 --> 01:00:35,076
Speaker 1: think Summertime Summertime Roles has a baseline kind of like

1062
01:00:35,396 --> 01:00:38,556
Speaker 1: oh I would for you has a bassline that I

1063
01:00:38,596 --> 01:00:41,396
Speaker 1: think has has those kind of distances in it. He

1064
01:00:41,436 --> 01:00:44,036
Speaker 1: would kind of play these. He had a few songs

1065
01:00:44,036 --> 01:00:48,516
Speaker 1: where he'd he'd have these like big intervals like that

1066
01:00:48,596 --> 01:00:53,196
Speaker 1: on his bass and I thought that would be cool

1067
01:00:53,236 --> 01:00:57,076
Speaker 1: to do on guitar. Yeah, you know, so cool. Yeah,

1068
01:00:57,476 --> 01:01:03,956
Speaker 1: Parallel universe. Uh yeah, so again again that that one

1069
01:01:04,076 --> 01:01:06,116
Speaker 1: is Flee and I sort of playing in harmony with

1070
01:01:06,116 --> 01:01:10,876
Speaker 1: one another. And that's actually I can't think. I don't

1071
01:01:10,956 --> 01:01:13,556
Speaker 1: think there was a chord. I think I don't even

1072
01:01:13,556 --> 01:01:15,716
Speaker 1: remember which of us was playing first, but one of

1073
01:01:15,796 --> 01:01:17,956
Speaker 1: us was playing and the other played to that, if

1074
01:01:18,036 --> 01:01:22,356
Speaker 1: I remember correctly. Yeah, and definitely forgotten the discussion about

1075
01:01:22,396 --> 01:01:25,476
Speaker 1: it being rhythmically unison for the whole song or did

1076
01:01:25,476 --> 01:01:29,676
Speaker 1: that just sort of happen it started and never stopped. Yeah,

1077
01:01:29,436 --> 01:01:32,036
Speaker 1: that there definitely wasn't discussion that it would be cool.

1078
01:01:32,316 --> 01:01:35,676
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to remember exactly how that came about.

1079
01:01:35,716 --> 01:01:39,276
Speaker 1: I remember writing the chorus at home. I think that

1080
01:01:39,356 --> 01:01:43,956
Speaker 1: was probably like pretty like Nirvana inspired, you know, like

1081
01:01:44,556 --> 01:01:55,036
Speaker 1: you know, they have these songs like all right, it's

1082
01:01:55,036 --> 01:01:58,156
Speaker 1: called Even in His Youth at two songs same key

1083
01:01:58,436 --> 01:02:16,836
Speaker 1: like that. They have another song that goes I just like,

1084
01:02:17,076 --> 01:02:19,196
Speaker 1: I really liked those songs that had that sort of

1085
01:02:19,596 --> 01:02:24,196
Speaker 1: minor kind of dark feeling. They don't sound at all

1086
01:02:24,236 --> 01:02:26,756
Speaker 1: the same to me, but it's interesting that they do that. Yeah,

1087
01:02:26,796 --> 01:02:28,796
Speaker 1: I think in my mind I was gonna. I was like,

1088
01:02:29,156 --> 01:02:31,636
Speaker 1: I write something like even in his youth, and that

1089
01:02:31,876 --> 01:02:41,156
Speaker 1: was that seems more like Ramones the anthemic to me. Yeah,

1090
01:02:41,676 --> 01:02:43,836
Speaker 1: I mean I'm also listening to the Ramones a lot

1091
01:02:43,916 --> 01:02:46,796
Speaker 1: at that time. Also, you know, for me to say,

1092
01:02:47,156 --> 01:02:48,676
Speaker 1: I think I used to kind of try to hide

1093
01:02:48,676 --> 01:02:52,556
Speaker 1: the Nirvana influence because I felt like they were contemporaries

1094
01:02:52,596 --> 01:02:54,156
Speaker 1: and I didn't want people to know how much I

1095
01:02:54,236 --> 01:02:58,076
Speaker 1: loved them. But like, but like I mentioned you before,

1096
01:02:58,196 --> 01:03:00,916
Speaker 1: like when when I was down and out and there

1097
01:03:01,076 --> 01:03:05,236
Speaker 1: was like all those those years where there was no future,

1098
01:03:05,276 --> 01:03:08,116
Speaker 1: their music, their music, along with a few other people

1099
01:03:08,196 --> 01:03:10,636
Speaker 1: like David Bowie and Black Sabbath, that just meant the

1100
01:03:10,756 --> 01:03:12,556
Speaker 1: world to me. It just meant everything to me, and

1101
01:03:13,276 --> 01:03:17,516
Speaker 1: partially in their case because I felt like it was

1102
01:03:17,596 --> 01:03:19,556
Speaker 1: something I felt inside me since I was a kid,

1103
01:03:19,596 --> 01:03:23,076
Speaker 1: because I because I loved punk. Punk was the music

1104
01:03:23,196 --> 01:03:26,476
Speaker 1: that got me into playing guitar, but also loved all

1105
01:03:26,516 --> 01:03:29,876
Speaker 1: different kinds of pop music and stuff. So for somebody

1106
01:03:29,956 --> 01:03:32,276
Speaker 1: to combine punk with pop as well as they did,

1107
01:03:32,556 --> 01:03:35,316
Speaker 1: just and somebody to be that good of a screamer

1108
01:03:35,316 --> 01:03:38,276
Speaker 1: because Darby Crash was my favorite singer when I was

1109
01:03:38,316 --> 01:03:41,276
Speaker 1: a kid. And then so to have somebody who's screaming

1110
01:03:41,436 --> 01:03:44,276
Speaker 1: like as good as Darby Crash, yet he's singing like

1111
01:03:44,556 --> 01:03:48,396
Speaker 1: melodically in this way that Darby didn't really sing. Yeah,

1112
01:03:48,476 --> 01:03:50,516
Speaker 1: their music just meant a lot to me. So I

1113
01:03:50,636 --> 01:03:52,996
Speaker 1: remember them opening for you. Was that on the Blood

1114
01:03:53,036 --> 01:03:55,276
Speaker 1: Sugar tour that they were opening for you only for

1115
01:03:55,396 --> 01:03:58,316
Speaker 1: three shows? Oh, I must have been on all three

1116
01:03:58,356 --> 01:04:00,076
Speaker 1: shows and because for me it felt like, oh that

1117
01:04:00,156 --> 01:04:02,316
Speaker 1: they're on the tour. Yeah, I was in California only,

1118
01:04:03,796 --> 01:04:05,836
Speaker 1: but and I wasn't into them then. I resented the

1119
01:04:05,876 --> 01:04:08,196
Speaker 1: whole idea of a pop punk thing at the time,

1120
01:04:09,476 --> 01:04:12,396
Speaker 1: like I was so funny. Yeah, I didn't like them

1121
01:04:12,516 --> 01:04:17,676
Speaker 1: till after he'd already died. Yeah, he just died. I

1122
01:04:17,796 --> 01:04:22,796
Speaker 1: think when I started to Tony Oswald started playing playing

1123
01:04:23,196 --> 01:04:24,596
Speaker 1: I first heard him when I was in the I

1124
01:04:24,676 --> 01:04:27,036
Speaker 1: was in a rehab, and I mean when I first

1125
01:04:27,076 --> 01:04:29,196
Speaker 1: heard them and liked them, I was in a rehab

1126
01:04:29,276 --> 01:04:33,116
Speaker 1: and that in Udoro album had come out, and she

1127
01:04:33,236 --> 01:04:36,156
Speaker 1: played me the song raped me over the telephone, and

1128
01:04:36,276 --> 01:04:38,396
Speaker 1: I was stuck in a rehab for thirty days, and

1129
01:04:38,556 --> 01:04:41,396
Speaker 1: I kept calling her upcoing play me that song again.

1130
01:04:41,876 --> 01:04:44,076
Speaker 1: It's playing like however it sounded on the fine. I

1131
01:04:44,156 --> 01:04:46,636
Speaker 1: just had to hear it again. I loved it so much. Yeah,

1132
01:04:46,636 --> 01:04:48,596
Speaker 1: it was it was really that in Udoro. It might

1133
01:04:48,636 --> 01:04:51,556
Speaker 1: have been before he died, at no, I think it

1134
01:04:51,636 --> 01:04:53,396
Speaker 1: was still after he died. But I just hadn't heard

1135
01:04:53,436 --> 01:04:55,196
Speaker 1: that album in Udo and that was the and I

1136
01:04:55,276 --> 01:04:57,596
Speaker 1: still think that's their best album, and that that was

1137
01:04:57,716 --> 01:05:01,956
Speaker 1: what got me real excited about them. Yeah, maybe the

1138
01:05:02,076 --> 01:05:05,516
Speaker 1: things about never Mind that Cured himself didn't like were

1139
01:05:05,556 --> 01:05:07,676
Speaker 1: the things that didn't appeal to me about it when

1140
01:05:07,716 --> 01:05:09,556
Speaker 1: it came out or something. Because when so I heard

1141
01:05:09,596 --> 01:05:14,036
Speaker 1: them sound actually like raw and sound like just like

1142
01:05:14,156 --> 01:05:16,676
Speaker 1: guys playing in a room, that's when I realized. And

1143
01:05:16,716 --> 01:05:18,556
Speaker 1: I didn't even watch them when they opened for us.

1144
01:05:18,636 --> 01:05:21,636
Speaker 1: I was just in my own head. And so anyways,

1145
01:05:21,676 --> 01:05:24,596
Speaker 1: so so I saw that courts as like Nirvana thing.

1146
01:05:24,636 --> 01:05:27,556
Speaker 1: But like I said, a lot of times, things like

1147
01:05:27,716 --> 01:05:29,596
Speaker 1: I like, a lot of times, the things we love,

1148
01:05:29,836 --> 01:05:32,836
Speaker 1: we don't hit us to write it first. Yeah that's

1149
01:05:32,876 --> 01:05:34,836
Speaker 1: not unusual at all. Yeah, I know it was that

1150
01:05:34,956 --> 01:05:37,436
Speaker 1: way for you with the Ramones. Yeah, I just made

1151
01:05:37,436 --> 01:05:41,156
Speaker 1: me laugh. Yeah. But yeah, but anyways, being into punk

1152
01:05:41,196 --> 01:05:44,316
Speaker 1: since I was a kid. It was like, once I

1153
01:05:44,396 --> 01:05:46,716
Speaker 1: got into them, I was surprised that I hadn't landed

1154
01:05:46,756 --> 01:05:49,156
Speaker 1: on these ideas like when I first joined the band,

1155
01:05:49,476 --> 01:05:53,076
Speaker 1: you know, this way of sort of combining punk and pop,

1156
01:05:53,196 --> 01:05:56,356
Speaker 1: because like I just thought the band didn't want to

1157
01:05:56,436 --> 01:05:59,196
Speaker 1: be I didn't think that. I didn't even think the

1158
01:05:59,236 --> 01:06:01,876
Speaker 1: Red Hot Chili Peppers would want to do something like

1159
01:06:01,996 --> 01:06:04,596
Speaker 1: that anyways, you know, like I would to find they

1160
01:06:04,676 --> 01:06:06,876
Speaker 1: might not have wanted to write when you joined. Actually,

1161
01:06:07,036 --> 01:06:11,156
Speaker 1: if you think about it, because it was until it

1162
01:06:11,316 --> 01:06:14,596
Speaker 1: took time for it to for the mold to open

1163
01:06:14,916 --> 01:06:18,396
Speaker 1: of what the Chili Peppers could be. Yeah, it wouldn't

1164
01:06:18,396 --> 01:06:20,836
Speaker 1: have suited really the way Anthony was singing then. Yeah,

1165
01:06:21,036 --> 01:06:23,596
Speaker 1: you know, like it took time for it to turn

1166
01:06:23,716 --> 01:06:27,796
Speaker 1: into anything we like. You know that took time. Yeah,

1167
01:06:28,516 --> 01:06:32,276
Speaker 1: But anyways, it came real naturally. That song's definitely a

1168
01:06:32,356 --> 01:06:37,276
Speaker 1: combination of Fugazi and Nirvana in my mind, like probably

1169
01:06:37,356 --> 01:06:39,236
Speaker 1: quite a bit of our songs I could sum up

1170
01:06:39,316 --> 01:06:41,236
Speaker 1: in ways like that. I could say it's a combination

1171
01:06:41,316 --> 01:06:44,316
Speaker 1: of this artist and that artist or whatever, but really

1172
01:06:44,916 --> 01:06:46,636
Speaker 1: it sounds like us. Yeah, I was gonna say, it

1173
01:06:46,676 --> 01:06:49,236
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like either of them. Yeah, what is the

1174
01:06:49,396 --> 01:06:52,716
Speaker 1: verse guitar part in parallel universe? It's hard to play

1175
01:06:52,756 --> 01:07:04,596
Speaker 1: on this, but yeah, it's it doesn't sound like anything like, Yes,

1176
01:07:04,796 --> 01:07:06,516
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like music without the base. It's so

1177
01:07:06,716 --> 01:07:10,476
Speaker 1: interesting though, but when they're together, it's so unique and

1178
01:07:10,716 --> 01:07:14,716
Speaker 1: so cool. Yeah, yeah, that one. It might have come

1179
01:07:14,796 --> 01:07:18,116
Speaker 1: up in a similar way to to other side with

1180
01:07:18,316 --> 01:07:20,156
Speaker 1: me coming in with chords, but somehow I don't think so.

1181
01:07:20,236 --> 01:07:23,156
Speaker 1: I think Fleet. I think Fleet was probably playing that

1182
01:07:23,276 --> 01:07:26,196
Speaker 1: on the bass and the do you know what his

1183
01:07:26,316 --> 01:07:42,556
Speaker 1: part is? You know, so that does sound we're root.

1184
01:07:43,036 --> 01:07:45,236
Speaker 1: Yeah that you can hear the music more. My part

1185
01:07:45,316 --> 01:07:47,796
Speaker 1: doesn't even sound like the song, like unless you hear

1186
01:07:47,836 --> 01:07:50,476
Speaker 1: it with that part with that his harmony makes it

1187
01:07:50,676 --> 01:07:54,796
Speaker 1: makes the whole thing feel like thick. Yeah, yeah, exactly

1188
01:07:54,916 --> 01:07:57,636
Speaker 1: like his part. You hear the song and it yeah,

1189
01:07:57,716 --> 01:07:59,756
Speaker 1: because he's playing the root notes and I'm playing the

1190
01:08:00,396 --> 01:08:02,996
Speaker 1: different intervals. But yeah, I guess come to think of it,

1191
01:08:03,156 --> 01:08:05,556
Speaker 1: that it must have been that that like that, I

1192
01:08:05,676 --> 01:08:08,676
Speaker 1: like those couple, those three notes of even in his

1193
01:08:08,796 --> 01:08:12,596
Speaker 1: youth there, so I wanted to do something with those

1194
01:08:12,796 --> 01:08:16,676
Speaker 1: that started with that basic tonality. But like, but the

1195
01:08:16,756 --> 01:08:19,156
Speaker 1: way I'm strumming. It is like the Ramons like that,

1196
01:08:19,396 --> 01:08:25,676
Speaker 1: it's all down strokes, and I was playing along with

1197
01:08:25,716 --> 01:08:27,756
Speaker 1: the Ramones every day. It was good for my rhythm hand.

1198
01:08:27,836 --> 01:08:30,636
Speaker 1: It got me stronger and stronger as as we rehearsed,

1199
01:08:30,956 --> 01:08:33,436
Speaker 1: I kept being able to do down strokes faster and faster,

1200
01:08:34,036 --> 01:08:36,556
Speaker 1: and became friends with Johnny Ramone at that time, which

1201
01:08:36,636 --> 01:08:40,516
Speaker 1: also like, yeah, I had an influence on on me

1202
01:08:40,636 --> 01:08:43,036
Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways, He's the person who

1203
01:08:43,036 --> 01:08:46,716
Speaker 1: got me into fifties music. So I started like, like,

1204
01:08:46,836 --> 01:08:49,276
Speaker 1: I learned all the guitar solos on all the Ricky Nelson's.

1205
01:08:49,476 --> 01:08:51,836
Speaker 1: You were ready into old movies before Johnny Ramone, or

1206
01:08:51,876 --> 01:08:54,716
Speaker 1: was Johnny really I was into? Yeah, I was into

1207
01:08:55,076 --> 01:08:58,036
Speaker 1: you know, old movies, but he was able to show

1208
01:08:58,076 --> 01:09:00,156
Speaker 1: me a lot more about them and stuff that I

1209
01:09:00,436 --> 01:09:02,956
Speaker 1: that I didn't know, Like he used to give me

1210
01:09:03,076 --> 01:09:06,516
Speaker 1: Humprey Bogart movies that he would record off TV when

1211
01:09:06,556 --> 01:09:09,956
Speaker 1: they would show a rare one and stuff, and yeah,

1212
01:09:09,996 --> 01:09:13,196
Speaker 1: it got me into collecting such an interesting person. I

1213
01:09:13,396 --> 01:09:18,076
Speaker 1: really miss him. Yeah, he's one of the more interesting

1214
01:09:18,196 --> 01:09:22,716
Speaker 1: people I've ever met. No, that's truly true. Very um

1215
01:09:23,156 --> 01:09:26,156
Speaker 1: like knew what he liked you know what I mean,

1216
01:09:26,236 --> 01:09:31,236
Speaker 1: Like very saw the world his way clearly. Yeah, he

1217
01:09:31,396 --> 01:09:33,396
Speaker 1: was very sure of it, and he didn't mind if

1218
01:09:33,436 --> 01:09:35,996
Speaker 1: you disagreed with not at all at all, not at all.

1219
01:09:36,076 --> 01:09:38,236
Speaker 1: And at the same time it just didn't it didn't

1220
01:09:38,276 --> 01:09:41,676
Speaker 1: but it didn't it didn't make sense. Yeah, you see

1221
01:09:41,716 --> 01:09:44,036
Speaker 1: how anyone could see it differently. Yeah, he would just

1222
01:09:44,076 --> 01:09:47,796
Speaker 1: say okay, yeah, yeah, Like he's like, I think I

1223
01:09:47,876 --> 01:09:54,396
Speaker 1: know more about no more about this than you. I

1224
01:09:54,476 --> 01:09:56,236
Speaker 1: saw that you did one of one of the remote

1225
01:09:56,316 --> 01:09:59,596
Speaker 1: songs that at Flee's thing last week. It was I

1226
01:09:59,636 --> 01:10:03,676
Speaker 1: saw a little clip Linda sent me. It was so beautiful. Thanks. Yeah, yeah,

1227
01:10:03,676 --> 01:10:05,796
Speaker 1: I've done it a few times now. I didn't once

1228
01:10:06,156 --> 01:10:09,956
Speaker 1: for the day that he that he died, for his birthday,

1229
01:10:09,996 --> 01:10:12,276
Speaker 1: which came not long after that, and then the other

1230
01:10:12,396 --> 01:10:16,276
Speaker 1: day because DH died so and because Linda was there.

1231
01:10:16,396 --> 01:10:19,596
Speaker 1: So yeah, I didn't know that. You didn't know DH died.

1232
01:10:19,876 --> 01:10:23,036
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Flick called me up and I before that show.

1233
01:10:24,356 --> 01:10:28,436
Speaker 1: Have you heard so? Yeah, I can't remember. Did you

1234
01:10:28,516 --> 01:10:31,236
Speaker 1: play together with him in the band? Yeah for six

1235
01:10:31,716 --> 01:10:34,036
Speaker 1: six months. We see the drummer when you joined. Yeah,

1236
01:10:35,036 --> 01:10:37,676
Speaker 1: me and him, we're playing with another friend of mine

1237
01:10:37,676 --> 01:10:42,316
Speaker 1: who who died just a few years later, but a

1238
01:10:42,436 --> 01:10:45,476
Speaker 1: really great bass player, and me and him and DH

1239
01:10:45,876 --> 01:10:49,276
Speaker 1: were trying to get a band going, and then DH

1240
01:10:49,436 --> 01:10:52,676
Speaker 1: joined the Red Hot Chili Peppers and then I joined,

1241
01:10:52,836 --> 01:10:55,316
Speaker 1: and I think it was actually probably just a total

1242
01:10:55,396 --> 01:10:58,316
Speaker 1: of about four or five months that I was in

1243
01:10:58,396 --> 01:11:01,156
Speaker 1: the band. And did you gigs? I can't remember. Yeah

1244
01:11:01,196 --> 01:11:03,836
Speaker 1: we did. We did a tour for like three weeks

1245
01:11:03,876 --> 01:11:07,876
Speaker 1: in the Midwest. We played San Francisco, we played La

1246
01:11:08,716 --> 01:11:12,076
Speaker 1: I think twice, we played in Arizona, we played Scattered,

1247
01:11:12,676 --> 01:11:16,116
Speaker 1: played a few scattered gigs in other places. But yeah,

1248
01:11:16,476 --> 01:11:18,436
Speaker 1: I mean he's the person who introduced me to Flee,

1249
01:11:18,796 --> 01:11:24,036
Speaker 1: you know, And yeah, and like his feel as a drummer.

1250
01:11:24,116 --> 01:11:27,676
Speaker 1: It's just like it was really fun playing punk with him.

1251
01:11:27,716 --> 01:11:30,676
Speaker 1: I remember the very last time, I was pretty sure

1252
01:11:30,716 --> 01:11:33,036
Speaker 1: we were going to fire him, or I knew we

1253
01:11:33,116 --> 01:11:34,796
Speaker 1: were going to fire him at this point, but we were.

1254
01:11:34,996 --> 01:11:39,316
Speaker 1: We had a last rehearsal and I remember it being

1255
01:11:39,396 --> 01:11:43,516
Speaker 1: just Meme, Flee and DH there and we played Foreign

1256
01:11:43,596 --> 01:11:47,316
Speaker 1: Policy by Fear because you could pretty much just go

1257
01:11:47,476 --> 01:11:50,996
Speaker 1: into whatever punk song and DH do how to play

1258
01:11:51,036 --> 01:11:55,316
Speaker 1: it really well. And I really love that song Foreign policy.

1259
01:11:55,396 --> 01:11:59,196
Speaker 1: It's a really beautiful It's just a beautiful emotive song,

1260
01:11:59,396 --> 01:12:02,316
Speaker 1: and it was a real emotional moment. It was one

1261
01:12:02,356 --> 01:12:03,836
Speaker 1: of those moments I was like, I'm never going to

1262
01:12:03,916 --> 01:12:06,436
Speaker 1: forget this, like the feeling, you know, the feeling of this,

1263
01:12:06,636 --> 01:12:09,076
Speaker 1: like because him and me and Flee had such a

1264
01:12:09,316 --> 01:12:14,796
Speaker 1: good connection, but he he just he wasn't willing to

1265
01:12:14,876 --> 01:12:18,116
Speaker 1: give up the things that were separating him from the

1266
01:12:18,196 --> 01:12:21,116
Speaker 1: rest of us, you know, and it had to go

1267
01:12:21,276 --> 01:12:24,196
Speaker 1: that way. But yeah, we used to have a good

1268
01:12:24,236 --> 01:12:26,836
Speaker 1: time playing together. So when he died, I like listened

1269
01:12:26,876 --> 01:12:29,836
Speaker 1: to those first couple of Dead Kennedy's records that he's

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01:12:29,876 --> 01:12:32,156
Speaker 1: on and just listening to his groove and stuff. It

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01:12:32,276 --> 01:12:36,476
Speaker 1: just felt really good to remember him. But I hadn't

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01:12:36,516 --> 01:12:38,116
Speaker 1: talked to him in like twenty years. We were at

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01:12:38,156 --> 01:12:41,596
Speaker 1: the same rehab like twenty years ago, right before Californication,

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01:12:41,716 --> 01:12:44,196
Speaker 1: and he left after a few days. But that was

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01:12:44,476 --> 01:12:46,196
Speaker 1: that was the last time I'd seen him. But the

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01:12:46,236 --> 01:12:48,116
Speaker 1: other guys had been in touch, and I'd been recently

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01:12:48,236 --> 01:12:51,596
Speaker 1: like sending Anthony pictures of us with him. That came

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01:12:51,676 --> 01:12:54,316
Speaker 1: my way to like show him, and he was like

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01:12:54,396 --> 01:12:57,436
Speaker 1: wanting to see the pictures and stuff like he was

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01:12:57,516 --> 01:13:03,596
Speaker 1: going in a good direction. I thought, we have to

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01:13:03,676 --> 01:13:06,516
Speaker 1: pause a conversation right here, but we'll be dropping the

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01:13:06,676 --> 01:13:10,756
Speaker 1: next episode in our Fraschante series next week. In that episode,

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01:13:10,876 --> 01:13:13,516
Speaker 1: John continues to play through about hot chili pepper songs,

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01:13:13,756 --> 01:13:15,836
Speaker 1: and he plays a snippet of a solo track dying

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01:13:15,956 --> 01:13:18,556
Speaker 1: Song and tells us why that didn't end up on

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01:13:18,796 --> 01:13:20,916
Speaker 1: by the way, So be sure to keep an eye

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01:13:20,956 --> 01:13:23,236
Speaker 1: out on our feed. We can hear all of our

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01:13:23,276 --> 01:13:25,956
Speaker 1: favorite chili pepper songs on our playlist at broken record

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01:13:25,996 --> 01:13:28,996
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube

1290
01:13:29,076 --> 01:13:32,796
Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast. We

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01:13:32,876 --> 01:13:35,636
Speaker 1: can find all of our new episodes. You can follow

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01:13:35,716 --> 01:13:39,196
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Records produced with

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01:13:39,276 --> 01:13:43,676
Speaker 1: help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday, Eric Sandler,

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01:13:44,076 --> 01:13:48,636
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sanchez, our editor Sophie Crane. Our executive producer is

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01:13:48,716 --> 01:13:53,236
Speaker 1: Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.

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01:13:53,876 --> 01:13:56,276
Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

1297
01:13:56,356 --> 01:14:00,756
Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1298
01:14:00,916 --> 01:14:04,476
Speaker 1: that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad pre listening for

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01:14:04,636 --> 01:14:07,516
Speaker 1: four ninety nine a month. Look for pushkm plus on

1300
01:14:07,636 --> 01:14:11,556
Speaker 1: Apple podcast subscription and if you like our show, please

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01:14:11,636 --> 01:14:14,196
Speaker 1: remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast

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01:14:14,316 --> 01:14:18,236
Speaker 1: at our theme musics by Kenny beats On Justin Richmond