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Speaker 1: I'm Caroline Hyder Bloomberg's World sead quarters in New York,

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Speaker 1: and I made Ludlow also in New York this week.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up samm Gunfried. He responds

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Speaker 1: to charges in a detailed posts saying in still funds

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Speaker 1: or stashed billions away. And scrutiny of Disney leadership continues,

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Speaker 1: with activist investor Nelson Pelts nominating himself to the company board.

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Speaker 1: What could this mean for Bob Biga? And we talk

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Speaker 1: with a venture capital founder backed by Melinda French Gates

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Speaker 1: about her new fund dedicated to investments in longevity, the

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Speaker 1: spending power and influence of women and diverse communities. But

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Speaker 1: first let us check in on these markets, because once again, friends,

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Speaker 1: it was a day of macro affecting your benchmarks and

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Speaker 1: looking at the CPI print, the inflation data actually show

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Speaker 1: aid drop in overall prices in the month of December

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Speaker 1: versus the month of November, down north point one percent.

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Speaker 1: If you look at month or month overall, we're still

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Speaker 1: seeing that CPI showing that inflation is cooling, maybe even

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Speaker 1: peaked that as the market liked nascack up six cents

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Speaker 1: of percent all country World Index now up for five

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Speaker 1: straight days, similar moves to the NAZTAC five stup days.

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Speaker 1: It's the longest winning street we've seen since July twenty two.

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Speaker 1: And really the key move was in borrowing costs yields bonds.

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Speaker 1: We see yields come down by twelve basis points on

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Speaker 1: a five year, but across the curve we see borrowing

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Speaker 1: costs fall. As we think the Federal Reserve it's going

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Speaker 1: to start slowing that pace of hiking. Certainly we're hearing

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Speaker 1: from a libany of the members of the f O

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Speaker 1: m C talking about now just a quarter of a

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Speaker 1: percentage point is a new norm. Let's flipping it on

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Speaker 1: because I wanted to look at there for what happens

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Speaker 1: to the US dollar. The US dollar has been on

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Speaker 1: a weakening trajectory. In fact, it was down versus basically

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Speaker 1: every single G ten currency. Look at the Japanese N.

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Speaker 1: The w c RS function World Currency Rankings on the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg shows that the Japanese N on the day was

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Speaker 1: up more than two point four percent than nor we Chrone,

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Speaker 1: Ozzie dollar, Europe all doing well. This, of course is

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Speaker 1: a story of strength versus the US dollard. Yeah, we've

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Speaker 1: got some breaking news also happening after market. Carrow Apple

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Speaker 1: saying in a regulatory filing that Tim Cook's salary for

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Speaker 1: three his compensation will be reduced to a more modest

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Speaker 1: million dollars. They're saying the regulatory filing that Tim Cook

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Speaker 1: had some influence on this, and going forward they'll re

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Speaker 1: evaluate his pay relative to peers, bringing it more in

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Speaker 1: line to the eighty to ninety percentile, which you know,

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Speaker 1: still a lot of money, but interesting development, happy areas.

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Speaker 1: There's a sort of modest reaction down a tenth to

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Speaker 1: a cent on Apples dog in that after ours move,

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Speaker 1: we got the reaction we expected when inflation came in

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Speaker 1: in line with expectation. When it came to tech dogs,

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Speaker 1: that was kind of one of the primary movers. Interesting

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Speaker 1: forward ten straight days of gains, its longest streak on record.

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Speaker 1: No real catalysts or news in the news cycle, but

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Speaker 1: interesting to see that performance to start the year from

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Speaker 1: Ford as it shifts towards E V East. Tesla up

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Speaker 1: three tens and one percent. It had been lower for

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Speaker 1: much of the session. Disney, We're gonna get into investors.

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Speaker 1: It's not clear whether this was kind of part of

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Speaker 1: the broader market move or investors cheering the activism that

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Speaker 1: we're seeing from Tryann and Nelson Pelts. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about that in just a moment. In t SMC

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Speaker 1: really interesting, it's US listed shares. It's a d r

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Speaker 1: S up six point four percent this Thursday. The company

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Speaker 1: cutting its capex in response to slowing demand, particularly consumer electronics.

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Speaker 1: Revenue forecast for the FISC WAL first quarter slightly below

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Speaker 1: street expectations, but they're saying they're seeing improvement of supply,

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Speaker 1: particularly for automotive and how there's been a shortage of

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Speaker 1: chips there. Bitcoin interesting, We continue to see strength and bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: I want to get straight to a Bloomberg tuminal chart

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Speaker 1: behind me. There's still this really high correlation right between

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Speaker 1: bitcoin and technology stocks, and that this hasn't add to

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Speaker 1: that futures in this charts case. I think it will

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Speaker 1: be really interesting carry to look at this correlation as

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Speaker 1: we go forward. Right the narratives move now to twenty

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Speaker 1: five basis point hikes in the short term from the

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Speaker 1: Federal Reserve that's got the tech balls coming out. Well,

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Speaker 1: if the balls are out for stocks might not seek

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Speaker 1: some continued momentum for bitcoin as well. Well, let's look

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Speaker 1: at what might be a more bearish and narrative. Currently

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Speaker 1: in crypto, we have breaking news that the SEC is

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Speaker 1: suing the crypto brokerages Genesis and Gemini. This is for

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Speaker 1: offering unregistered securities through their joint Earned product as it

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Speaker 1: was called. Now, this is all, of course, the product

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Speaker 1: to do with Cameron Winkle us and currently the attack

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Speaker 1: he's making on DCG S Barry Silvert. They've been fighting

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Speaker 1: back and forth about really who's to blame for what

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Speaker 1: has been well, the fallout ever since the Earned program

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Speaker 1: has of course been a problem following the claps of

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Speaker 1: crypto more broadly. But the SEC really deeming that basically

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Speaker 1: you cannot be using these sorts of products that let

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Speaker 1: customers loan out their assets in exchange for interest payments,

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Speaker 1: and they're saying, of course this is unregistered securities. Shinnalie

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Speaker 1: Bassett joins us for more so, the SEC once again

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Speaker 1: weighing in on crypto, certainly in a big way. Caroline,

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Speaker 1: here you have the SEC has complained here calling into

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Speaker 1: question Genesis and Gemini in the same complaint. Now, why

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Speaker 1: is that interesting? We have again to your point that

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Speaker 1: you're making here these two counterparties that had previously been

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Speaker 1: suiting over how the situation has been handled since holding withdrawals.

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Speaker 1: Now what does the complaints say? As you said, they're

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Speaker 1: looking at the unregistered offer and sale of securities to

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Speaker 1: US retail investors. You also have the SEC talking about

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Speaker 1: the marketing from both parties here, both parties, and I

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Speaker 1: want to be very specific, it is Genesis Global Capital,

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Speaker 1: the subsidiary of that large Genesis trading desk here that

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Speaker 1: is part of the defendants being named in this complaint,

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Speaker 1: but both of them marketing these assets to investors and

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Speaker 1: being called into question by the SEC. Now, remember this

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Speaker 1: comes just days after that big open letter you saw

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Speaker 1: from Cameron winkle Boss, after a number of correspondences between DCG,

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Speaker 1: that Digital Currency Group, that big entity run by Barry Sobert,

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Speaker 1: as well as the Winkel Bosses twins Gemini for this

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Speaker 1: gem the earned product. And it's days after you have

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Speaker 1: Cameron Winklevoss alleging here private lies and accounting fraud. And

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Speaker 1: also in the same week that you have Barry Silber,

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Speaker 1: the head of Digital Currency Group, also reaching out to

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Speaker 1: investors with a very large multi page question and answer

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Speaker 1: here that addresses how Digital Currency Group uses the proceeds

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Speaker 1: of loans borrowed from Genesis Capital, the same asset here

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Speaker 1: in question that is under the sec review. Now there

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Speaker 1: will be a lot of questions both from investors as

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Speaker 1: well as regulators on where the money went, what, what

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Speaker 1: kind of money was lost, how you get it back.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, as I said before,

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Speaker 1: these two are being named the complaint together after days

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Speaker 1: and days and days months really sparring. And so how

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Speaker 1: they handle this when they're both listed together as under

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Speaker 1: the complaint of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is an interesting development in POD because Bloom reported last

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Speaker 1: week according to sources, that federal prosecutors were looking into

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Speaker 1: Barrios Barry Silber in the Digital Currency Group. So now

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Speaker 1: we have this triangle, right, Vinkl Voss Silber regulators. As

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Speaker 1: you said, the complaint is joint between them. Bring tie

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Speaker 1: that all together. What is the relationship as it stands

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Speaker 1: now between Barry silver and the Winkl Voss brothers twins

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Speaker 1: as it stands Remember they have been both kind of

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Speaker 1: at war here, uh, And I think what's worth kind

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Speaker 1: of pointing out here is the difference between how Genesis

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Speaker 1: frames this issue versus the wink of Voss twins. We

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Speaker 1: reported in late November actually that when Genesis was out

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Speaker 1: kind of looking for money, we had reported they had

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Speaker 1: reached out to a number of big investors to try

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Speaker 1: to really stave off some of these issues. As they

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Speaker 1: did that, they revealed all of these loans that existed

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Speaker 1: between Genesis as well as other Digital Currency Group experts

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Speaker 1: here or entities here. Now remember those entities um investors

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Speaker 1: of Digital Currency Group did have clarity into how the

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Speaker 1: entity worked. So the big reveal here then becomes now

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Speaker 1: you know, regulators asking questions about where the money went

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, but also the allegations

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Speaker 1: being made by Gemini and Gemini earns products on behalf

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Speaker 1: of those more than three hundred thousand customers. Remember when

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Speaker 1: you look at Digital Currency Groups response to this publicly,

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Speaker 1: they said this is a way for Gemini to be

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Speaker 1: deflecting blame. But again the way that this is culminating

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Speaker 1: now they both are under this complaint for the sec

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Speaker 1: Let's weave all of this narrative together, Shinali, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of the reasons that the funds have been trapped

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Speaker 1: in Genesis is because of the ongoing fallout across crypto.

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Speaker 1: Then in many parts wasn't just started by the collapse

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Speaker 1: of fd X. It came much prior to that. Actually

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Speaker 1: some of them related to lending products themselves. But just

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Speaker 1: talk to us about what we've heard from sat Magman

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Speaker 1: Free today about the st X full out and really

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Speaker 1: how all of this is one big similar collapse that

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Speaker 1: is just having so much of a contagion effect. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting because we've heard of course Sam Bigen

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Speaker 1: freed before the indictment came out, him have his media tour,

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Speaker 1: but then since he's been on house arrest, we've seen

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Speaker 1: him tweet here and there, and now we have a

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Speaker 1: sub stack coming out as well in which he's detailing

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Speaker 1: kind of his defense here on this idea that he

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Speaker 1: didn't steal funds, he didn't stash them anywhere. That the

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Speaker 1: name of this sub stack was ft X pre Mortem Overview.

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Speaker 1: He also links the issue to how he was treated

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Speaker 1: by rivals. He's been complaining about finance and the handling

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Speaker 1: of assets for a while here. Now, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, what happened in the middle of last year,

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Speaker 1: Luna three Arrows, people lost a lot of money, and

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Speaker 1: it's spirals from there, and it's kind of as simple

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Speaker 1: as that, alright, bloom bog Stionnali Bassett keeping us posted

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Speaker 1: on every twist and turn in an industry under duress,

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Speaker 1: executives under the spotlight, And speaking of executives under the

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Speaker 1: spot let's talk about Disney, where activists invested. Nelson Pelts

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Speaker 1: has nominated himself to the board. This could become a

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Speaker 1: highly public abait over Disney's returning CEO, Bob Iger and

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Speaker 1: his leadership. Bloomberg's managing editor for Global Business, Creating Harrison

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Speaker 1: with us in New York. I guess the question you

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Speaker 1: go straight to is what is Nelson Peltz trying to

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Speaker 1: get out of this Well, he's trying to get the

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Speaker 1: things out of it. Then Nelson Peltz is always trying

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Speaker 1: to get out of these things, right, which is we

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Speaker 1: can squeeze cost savings, we can run this business more efficiently.

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Speaker 1: You know. He argues that Disney has been overpaying for

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Speaker 1: assets for a while, especially the Fox steal from a

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Speaker 1: few years back. Um. You know, he criticizes them for

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Speaker 1: having gone after Sky which they did not win. But

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Speaker 1: we're willing to bid up the price quite a bit

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Speaker 1: on he has it's time to shake things out and

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Speaker 1: uh and and and have a little more focused on

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Speaker 1: operating margins and restored the dividend. He's calling for the

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Speaker 1: dividend to be restored by five Remember that went away

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Speaker 1: early in the pandemic, as it did for many companies. Now,

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Speaker 1: none of these perhaps challenges and concerns must be that

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Speaker 1: much of a shock to Disney. They know that they've

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Speaker 1: had some issues. They've just announced changes at the board level,

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Speaker 1: perhaps in a focus at least on success should but

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Speaker 1: ultimately they're not gonna want Pelts on the board. No,

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Speaker 1: they very much do not want Pelts on the board.

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Speaker 1: I think Bob Iger would like to, you know, have

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Speaker 1: a chance to run this show himself without without input

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Speaker 1: from Nelson Um. But they are, you know, sort of

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Speaker 1: acknowledging that there's at least some public facing changes that

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Speaker 1: they need to make. One interesting little piece of brinkmanship

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Speaker 1: is that Pelts was supposed to unveil his big campaign

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Speaker 1: this week, and it's Disney actually got out ahead of

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Speaker 1: it with the announcement of the change in this board. Now,

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Speaker 1: it says Susan Arnold had already hit the age limit

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Speaker 1: or I'm starry, not the age limit, but the tenure

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Speaker 1: limit to be on the board. Um. But the coincidence

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Speaker 1: is there if you want to read into it. Um.

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Speaker 1: They also did announce that they're establishing a succession committee

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Speaker 1: at the board level. So that's a signal to investors, Hey,

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Speaker 1: we know we need to you know, set our course

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Speaker 1: on the future and decide who will eventually replace Bob

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Speaker 1: Iger in a couple of years. UM. That is very much,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of a first volley in what is

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Speaker 1: likely to be a months long five This is like

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Speaker 1: one of those stories where you actually do some contexts

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Speaker 1: of recent history where you know Iger has returned to

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Speaker 1: see having retired quote unquote, they don'tly just renewed JPEX

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Speaker 1: contract before he was dismissed. Essentially, we actually asked our

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Speaker 1: audience if Pelts has a point? Here? Does Pelts have

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Speaker 1: a point? Um? These are the results from the Twitter

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Speaker 1: poll that we did. I'm not entirely surprised by this.

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Speaker 1: Respondents asking who who is Pelts? The answer really is

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Speaker 1: he's a classic activist, isn't he? And he built up

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Speaker 1: that stake in November. Um, I guess does he have

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Speaker 1: any track record? Of achieving these things. Absolutely. He changed

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Speaker 1: Disney absolutely, and you can argue that he already has

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Speaker 1: with these moves, right. Um, but you know, you look

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Speaker 1: at examples like Procter and Gamble General Electric, the executives

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Speaker 1: of those companies would say he very much changed it.

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Speaker 1: There's a great example of DuPont, which is a company

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Speaker 1: that he didn't actually win his activist fight, but the

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Speaker 1: CEO was out months later. They had a bunch of

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Speaker 1: cast cuts there now. So he is a big deal

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Speaker 1: and he will make his presence felt, and some analysts

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Speaker 1: say maybe they need to listen to the point thing.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you here, Thank you so much, cause

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's managing editor of Global Business, Claydon Harrison. Meanwhile, coming up,

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Speaker 1: we've got a little bit of sprinkling of VC action,

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Speaker 1: right Eddie. We're talking about pitch Book. It's out with

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Speaker 1: its new report on the state adventure capital in two.

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Speaker 1: Spoiler alert, it's not too pretty. More on that. Next,

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Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. We raised this round in a context

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Speaker 1: where the business was growing incredibly well. We grew AX one,

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Speaker 1: we grew almost forex in twenty two. Yes, the market

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Speaker 1: is more difficult. Um, I think there is much greater

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Speaker 1: scrutiny of our financial financial performance. You're and so on,

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Speaker 1: but underlying, you know, the numbers really did speak for themselves.

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Speaker 1: That was Peppy co founder and co CEO Rejewla poor

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Speaker 1: A talking with Carrol twenty four hours ago about the

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Speaker 1: current environment for raising money, and I think we've got

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Speaker 1: to get some context on this. This is the talking

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Speaker 1: point beyond Silicon Valley where founders and those who have

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Speaker 1: backed them historically are thinking about what on earth is

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Speaker 1: going on in all sorts of economies. Carl Stanford, lead

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Speaker 1: vcn lists at pitch Book, joins us from San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: Pitchbook out with its report for two and the State

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Speaker 1: of Venture Capital two in summary, was a transition year, right, Kyle.

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Speaker 1: It was difficult, It was hard, There was a pullback

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Speaker 1: in funding overall. What is the conclusion that you guys

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Speaker 1: reached when you took to a look back at the year.

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Speaker 1: I think a transition year is a really were a

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Speaker 1: really good way to describe what we saw in two.

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Speaker 1: Throughout the year, the momentum of the venture market that

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Speaker 1: had really grown in faded pretty quickly from Q one,

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Speaker 1: which we saw as in the most active quarter in

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Speaker 1: our dataset to Q four, we saw deal count drop,

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Speaker 1: we saw deal value drop sixty which is an incredible

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Speaker 1: number when you look at where that is coming from,

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Speaker 1: though a lot of that is coming from the unicorns,

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Speaker 1: the late stage, the gross age of venture which really

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Speaker 1: saw a huge amount of capital pushed into the market

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Speaker 1: of the past few years, which when when you see

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Speaker 1: the crossover investors pull out and readjust their investment strategy,

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Speaker 1: that capital, that is those late stages every led on

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Speaker 1: came out pretty quickwo. I think what's really interesting in Caroline,

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Speaker 1: and I've have been discussing this every single day, is

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Speaker 1: how actually it wasn't completely doom and gloom, and it

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Speaker 1: may not be complete dooming Glean three because at the

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Speaker 1: early stage, you know seed precede um, that there seems

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Speaker 1: to be more appetite to deploy capital because right if

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Speaker 1: you're a venture capitalist, you take a long term view.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know you're not going to have an

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Speaker 1: exit for for a while. Is that a fair assessment

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Speaker 1: of the psychology I suppose of this industry right now? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right. When you think about seed stage companies

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Speaker 1: or even Series A, Series B, those companies, even the

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Speaker 1: most successful ones are years and years away from the

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Speaker 1: public markets, so they do have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: an immediate installation from the broader Macwick economy. But we

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Speaker 1: do believe that there is still some deflation to come

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Speaker 1: out of this market after the exuberance, and the longer

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Speaker 1: the macro volatility persists, we do expect early stage and

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Speaker 1: seed to start to see that crunch that the late

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Speaker 1: stages is seen. Right now, go global for US if

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Speaker 1: you can, because well, it's interesting. Is the outperformance of

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Speaker 1: late last couple of months of the public markets in

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Speaker 1: Europe visit v the US. I'm interested. Of course, that

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Speaker 1: comes from a lower base, whether Europe and other areas

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Speaker 1: we've heard from Textiles for example, talking about exuberance and

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Speaker 1: excitement going on in Africa, and at least from a

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Speaker 1: seed stage around and indeed from the actual startup culture

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Speaker 1: there at the moment. Are we likely to still see

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Speaker 1: the money in Silicon Valley, New York or is it

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Speaker 1: going to spread out a little bit more? I think

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Speaker 1: we've seen the spread out really happened over the past

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Speaker 1: few years. But when you look at the data, the

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Speaker 1: way we tracked data, and all the capital being located

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Speaker 1: in the headquarters of the fund. We at seventy seven

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Speaker 1: billion dollars raised in Silicon Valley this year. UM. A

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Speaker 1: lot of those huge mega funds that we see being

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Speaker 1: raised our headquarters are by firm's headquartered in Silicon Valley.

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Speaker 1: So when you look at the data, it does look

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Speaker 1: very concentrated. But we do believe, especially from kind of

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Speaker 1: the the change towards zoom and towards a more global

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Speaker 1: venture market, we will see that capital spread out UM.

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Speaker 1: One interesting notable report is that the Silicon value of

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Speaker 1: the Bay Area actually saw less than of deal count

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Speaker 1: in the US for the second quarter in a row,

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Speaker 1: which is the first time that's happened in our data set. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so even though the capital is staying here, there

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Speaker 1: is a much more global venture economy. Would that be

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Speaker 1: you know, moving the capital to the Midwest or to

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Speaker 1: some of the second tier cities in the US, or

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Speaker 1: to seeing capital go to Latin America or Europe. We've

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Speaker 1: seen a lot of growth everywhere and talk to us.

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Speaker 1: Can you break it down by industry Where remained relatively healthy,

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Speaker 1: Where was able to weather some of the concerns, All

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Speaker 1: were able to break it out as much as well.

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Speaker 1: Hell Care fintech cybersecurity store remains pretty resilient in the

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Speaker 1: face of a recessionary environment. I'm not sure any sector

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Speaker 1: really weather the storm in two. I think everyone was.

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Speaker 1: Every sector was there right for some kind of pull

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Speaker 1: back from VC because of the exuberance, and then the

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Speaker 1: media we saw one. But when we look from a

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Speaker 1: sector of perspective, the first place we look is the

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Speaker 1: public markets. Fintech had a really difficult year. Cloud has

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Speaker 1: stayed a little bit better, and you can see that

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Speaker 1: reflected in the valuations that are coming across in the

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Speaker 1: private market. I think that there's two data points I

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Speaker 1: want to hit with you really quickly. Kyled it they

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Speaker 1: even though they weren't necessarily the deals in two. I

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Speaker 1: think I'm right in saying that actually venture capitalists all

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Speaker 1: around the world launched quite a few new funds, right.

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Speaker 1: They at least got their war chests set up. If

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Speaker 1: they didn't then deploy them right, and we may not

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Speaker 1: see them deployed this year. The other data set that

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Speaker 1: really catches my eyes that about capital invested in female

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Speaker 1: founded companies. Could you just speak to us about that

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Speaker 1: that trend that you saw in four female companies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think female founder companies have been um, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: a point of interest for for much of the industry.

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Speaker 1: In the past few years. UM, there's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of new funds that have been raised by female gps.

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Speaker 1: There's been a lot of uh, you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: help from the industry to make sure that there's more

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Speaker 1: capital going to female founding companies. I think one data

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Speaker 1: point that gets tossed around there is the percentage that

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Speaker 1: is raised by female founding companies of the total deal value.

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Speaker 1: And the unfortunate part of that is that it is

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Speaker 1: very low, and no matter whey you cncisate, it's not

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Speaker 1: going to look great. But a lot of that is

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Speaker 1: is influenced by the huge deals that we've been seeing

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Speaker 1: over the past few years. We had eight hundred fifty

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Speaker 1: seven hundred million dollar deals closed in one we had

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Speaker 1: a you know, a four hundred fifty of those closes

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Speaker 1: in and many of those are artists, older companies, and

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Speaker 1: they have been started by by by men, and so

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Speaker 1: there has been a push towards more investment in female

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Speaker 1: founding companies and hope, we're hoping that because of the

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Speaker 1: fundraising that has been done by by female led gps

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Speaker 1: as well as the initiative of you know, the broader industry,

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Speaker 1: that we will see a sustained growth in investment into

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Speaker 1: female founding companies, and we've got a female lad fund

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Speaker 1: coming on a little bit later in the show, Carl,

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Speaker 1: just briefly from the diversity's perspective, many have been worrying that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a recent trend that money had been

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Speaker 1: put to work in this and therefore when we go

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Speaker 1: back retrench worry people go back to their previous old norms.

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Speaker 1: Are you hearing that three people are still gonna be

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Speaker 1: stood by ensuring their backing diverse founders, diversity of thought

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Speaker 1: In a similar way from investment, we we thought the

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Speaker 1: exact same thing was going to happen to the small,

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Speaker 1: small ecosystems that had really popped up in the Midwest

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Speaker 1: and then hadn't had the local fundraising and had received

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Speaker 1: a lot of capital from the East Coast or a

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Speaker 1: Bay area. What we did see, though, there was a

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Speaker 1: sustained growth in the smaller markets, and we believe that

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Speaker 1: whether it be in female founding companies or whether they

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Speaker 1: be even more diverse founder um group, we do believe

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Speaker 1: that there has been the sustaina momentum behind that um,

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Speaker 1: and we do believe that should be a good year

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Speaker 1: because of the number of funds that were raised to

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Speaker 1: focus on those different initiatives. Thank you for REMINISCINGO and

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Speaker 1: pushing us forward to Carl Stanford. We thank you. VC

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Speaker 1: anless over at pitchbook time for top tech calls. First

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Speaker 1: up Netflix Jefferies upgrading to buy from hold with a

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Speaker 1: new price target for three five dollars. The firm seas

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Speaker 1: upside surprises to the company's operating margin and believes the

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Speaker 1: second half of twenty three and should be good for Netflix,

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Speaker 1: but also looks at electronic cards, Take two and some

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Speaker 1: toy stocks despite short term pressure points. Moving on to

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Speaker 1: Best Buy downgraded by X and BNP Paraba from outperformed

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Speaker 1: to neutral. The new price target now seventy four dollars,

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Speaker 1: implying a four teen percent decrease from its last price.

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Speaker 1: Other analysts weighing in on this stock before Goldman Sacks,

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Speaker 1: for instance, upgraded shares best Buy last month from a

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Speaker 1: cell rating to neutral, lifting their target price to three dollars. Finally,

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Speaker 1: security software named c Scaler downgraded at Morgan Stanley's slower

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Speaker 1: growth for security landscape lowering its price target from one

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Speaker 1: six two to one tenny. A little bit positives and

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Speaker 1: some secular tail wins there for that stock carrow. Fascinating

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Speaker 1: group to keep close eye on. Welcome back to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Technology and we've got to talk to see a little

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Speaker 1: bit of it. Stick with it, and let's go to

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Speaker 1: San Francisco. You're not there, but some key players are.

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Speaker 1: There is a new fund in play in SF. Cake

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Speaker 1: Ventures it's just closed its first fund, seventeen millillion dollar vehicle.

432
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,360
Speaker 1: It's going to invest in minority founders, those building products

433
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: for changing demographics across America. Backers include Bag of America,

434
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: Melinda French Gates, Pivotal Ventures founder Many Woodard is joining

435
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: us now from the studio, and Mini. I mean congratulations

436
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: and talk to us about the layers. I liked the

437
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: description you called cake Ventures the layers in which you're

438
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 1: going to be targeting when looking to deploy your money exactly.

439
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me having me so. Cake Ventures is

440
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: focused on big technological changes combined with demographic shifts, and

441
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: we back and invest capital into companies that touch areas

442
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: of demographic change, including aging and longevity, increased spending power

443
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 1: of women, and the rise of a new majority. Talk

444
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: to us about the rise of a new majority, because

445
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: I think that's a really fascinating shift. Just sort of

446
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: talking about tech adopters who are coming from well minority

447
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: led areas, particularly more more, the people of color Asian

448
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: communities that are building something culturally as well as financially,

449
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: really correct. Um. You know, these three groups, Asian, Black,

450
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: and Latinos have an increasing influence on Internet culture, UH,

451
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: increasing their spending power, and I think for Cake Ventures

452
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: that means that this is an area that we want

453
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: to invest in and invest in quite early and many congratulations.

454
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: As Caroline said, it's really interesting to speak to a

455
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: new name in the world of venture capital. We've been

456
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: talking to founders, you know, a week pretty much about

457
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: how difficult it's been to raise money for those startups

458
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: in this environment. And I kind of want to put

459
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: the same question to you. You know, who are your LPs,

460
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: Where did the money come from? And how how hard

461
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: was it for you to get this vehicle finalized. Well,

462
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: we have great LPs like Pivotal Ventures and Melinda French

463
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: Gates Company, Bank of America, Sindonna Capital, UH Foundry Group

464
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: fund of funds like that, UM, and you know, we

465
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: are in a really challenging time for entrepreneurs and for

466
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: emerging fund managers. UM. I won't deny that, but UM,

467
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: you know, if you were building, there's never been a

468
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: better time to be building something uh game changing in technology,

469
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: and the capital is out there. But it is a

470
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: difficult time and will continue to be a difficult time

471
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: over the next several months, several months to a year

472
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: um for people starting new companies. Hey, many, I'm also

473
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: really interested in you as well. You know, I'm reading

474
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: that you guys are kind of kind of cut five

475
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollar checks that kind of increment. You know,

476
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: how are you going to do business? Are you're gonna

477
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: go out there and have one on ones with these founders?

478
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: Are you inviting pitches and pitch decks to come into you?

479
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: I just want to know how it works, essentially. So

480
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: I've already invested in in twelve companies out of this portfolio. UM.

481
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a long time venture capitalists. I was at

482
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: five hundred startups before as a VC and UH also

483
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: was a scout at light Speed, and so I have

484
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: a really great deep network of people in venture who

485
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: know me, know my investing thesis and track record and

486
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: who I can work with and collaborate with in order

487
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: to do great deals. Now, I also go out and

488
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: and hunt for deal which is one of my favorite

489
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: things to do is finding new undiscovered founders building something

490
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: that fits into the three layers of the cake. And

491
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: that's really exciting for me. Where are these founders based?

492
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: More often than not money. So although I'm based in

493
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: San Francisco, six of the companies that I've invested in

494
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: so far have been outside of quote unquote Silicon Valley

495
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay area. And that's something that will continue

496
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: to press on. You know. I think that great innovation

497
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: comes from many different places, uh, And we're excited to

498
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: invest in places that are outside of Silicon Valley as

499
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 1: well as companies that originate from right here. And let's

500
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: dig in a little bit more to those layers that

501
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 1: I so love you talking about. But thinking about the

502
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: way in which you're looking at demographic changes, longevity, and

503
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: they're like, what companies are there for you backed what

504
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: are the sort of problems Ultimately they're trying to fix.

505
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: One of my companies is called Guaranteed, and they are

506
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: using technology to change end of life in hospice care.

507
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: That's that fits into the aging and longevity layer of

508
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: the cape. Were super excited to UM to back that company. UM.

509
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: I've also invested in a company called Pamper, which focuses

510
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: on nails and nail art. That fits into the women,

511
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: uh women layer of the cake. UM and we're we're

512
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: excited to continue, you know, filling out the layers of

513
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: the cake with amazing companies building uh, not only consumer products,

514
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: but also building in the business, business and enterprise space.

515
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things I'm always fascinated by

516
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: when we we have vcs on I guess it's not

517
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: just as simple as you handing over the money, right

518
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: and I guess when you when you launch a thematic fund,

519
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: my question to you is what other help do you

520
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: offer these founders. What is it your pitch to them

521
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: on why they should partner with you, why they should

522
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: take your check over somebody else's. So I built Cake

523
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: to own the white space around demographic chain change, because

524
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: demographic change is what is going to impact every single

525
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: company that is being started today, whether you know it

526
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,239
Speaker 1: is strictly focused on aging or whether it is a

527
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: more generalized company and so one of the things that

528
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 1: UH founders and entrepreneurs looked to me and KEG four

529
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: is really helping them understand and define which demographic changes

530
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: are going to be the most impactful to their companies

531
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: and how to take advantage of those in a way

532
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: that is both authentic and helps accelerate their growth. We

533
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: were talking just about the economic environment when we now

534
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: find ourselves and some have said, you know, obviously DIA

535
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: strates to VC, but exciting times and seed and some

536
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: many have thought maybe the talent, the talent is being

537
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: let go at the moment with the countless layoffs means

538
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: people are going to build right now. Do you abide

539
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: by that thesis or you thinking, actually, now is the

540
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: time that you're looking for. The companies have already been

541
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: built and perhaps aren't taking such a risk in this time. No, definitely,

542
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, layoffs are really challenging time for anyone. No

543
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: one you know wants to hear about big companies laying

544
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: off a large amount of their staff. But you know,

545
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: just like UH during the Great Financial Crisis, a lot

546
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: of those a lot of those people ended up starting

547
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: companies that are that have been category defining companies like

548
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: Airbnb and Uber, and I think that because we are

549
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: in a recession and we are in a um you know,

550
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: we are really in a challenging economic time, a lot

551
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: of people will now start to uh start new companies

552
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: of their own and these can be the you know,

553
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: the next big companies that that experience amazing growth. Alright,

554
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: Monique Wild of Cake Ventures, were so grateful to have

555
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: you day one, you know, officially of the vehicle launch,

556
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: and in best of luck to you and the founders

557
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: that you invest in. What what is happening is there

558
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: is clearly themes playing out in front of Orise every

559
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: day on the show, we're discussing the same thing, which is, okay,

560
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: there might be a pullback in in investments from the

561
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,719
Speaker 1: VC world, not in early you know, precede seed stage companies.

562
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: That's number one. Number two, we are seeing thematic investors

563
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: look to focus on prioritize get capital to those that

564
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: need it most women led startups, minority groups US And

565
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: yes it's repetition, but this is what we're talking about

566
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: every every single day on the show. It seems it's

567
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: literally happening in real time and it's interesting to hear

568
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: the dovetailing of what pitch Book has seen and the commitment,

569
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: yes it is still always coming from a small base,

570
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: but the resilient commitment to women minority led businesses even

571
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: throughout the back end of two that you know, many

572
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: have worried, Many have worried as we are into some

573
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: sort of downturn, that there will be the first ones

574
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: to be left behind, sort of the last ones in

575
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: first ones out mentality. But that doesn't seem to be

576
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: bearing out. That doesn't seem to be the case. And

577
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: ultimately people want to particularly Gen Z millennials, want to

578
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: invest and spend with purpose. In some way, it feels

579
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: like something that you just say, but actually it's not

580
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: just talking to talk. We're walking the walk in somewhere.

581
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: We're seeing people get build and getting the fund in

582
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: closing those rounds and actually writing those checks already what

583
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: was it twelve. We're seeing the data and then from

584
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, investors, I mean, we're seeing it in action,

585
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: you know the story behind it. Next, I think we've

586
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: got to also focus a little bit on public markets

587
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: because we forget, actually we're so focused right now on

588
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: private There's a lot going on in the world of

589
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: stocks will be right back. This is Bloomberg malcome back

590
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: to me technology. I'm Caroline Hine in New York and

591
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: pay please say still in New York is one Ed

592
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: Ludlow only for one more day. But let's talk your

593
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: favorite let's talking. Yeah, it's interesting. There's a lot in

594
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: the news flow right now around electric vehicle and a

595
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 1: lot in the market. So I thought i'd tied all together.

596
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: The first thing that com actually was Lucid. I wrote

597
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: a story this morning about Lucid's four year twenty two.

598
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: They produced just over seven thousand vehicles, exceeding just that

599
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: their guidance or target. Remember, Lucid cut it targets twice

600
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: in side the year, saying they'd make twenty thousand vehicles.

601
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: They cut its fourteen thousand. They cut it against seven

602
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: thousand and all told, the end of the year they

603
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: produced just over seven thousand, but delivered very few to customers.

604
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: The market liked it, though, It's kind of relief we

605
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: saw in the stock up almost five percent. Tesla was

606
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: actually significantly lower at the open. Despite you know, there

607
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: was this logic that you get the inflation print where

608
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: we thought it would be. The FED will raise rates

609
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: and lower increments tested trades at twenty five times forward earnings,

610
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: maybe it would get caught up with the rest of

611
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: the tech trade. It didn't, although it did close up

612
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: three tenths of one percent and Ford up one point

613
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: six percent. It's tenth straight session higher in the green,

614
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: longest streak on record. I think that's really interesting. There's

615
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: no hard news peg, but we did get that data

616
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: last week about its full year twenty two EV sales

617
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: in particular, so I thought to take a look at

618
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: this chart because Ford is now the number two seller

619
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: of electric vehicles in the United States. But this kind

620
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: of tells the story, right, those big bars last year

621
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: and this year for Tesla. It's e V sales globally, right,

622
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: and one point three million at the end of two

623
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: globally granted. But I put that US data for Ford

624
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: next to it because that's principally where they're selling. Right.

625
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,719
Speaker 1: You've got like the the F one e one hit,

626
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: the Lightning being released, the transit van, but the mainstay

627
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 1: of what they're selling is the Mustang Mackie sixty thod

628
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: or so units. So context is king right. You know,

629
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: Ford is catching up, They're closing the gap. My question

630
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: to all our guests going forward, is you know, is

631
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: the competition coming for Tesla. That chart is simply there

632
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: to demonstrate this is the market incumbent with Tesla. Right.

633
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: That lead is so dramatic, it is hugely and it

634
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: means so many funds are exposed, so many still committed

635
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: to that stock, but some questioning how committed they should be.

636
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: Let's talk to one Mark stokell a love because he's

637
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: outspoken as a CEO and senior portfolio manager over Adam's Funds,

638
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: which has a two point six billion dollars under management.

639
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: And Mark a great quote the called r I which

640
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: was immediately why I Eddie was like, we need to

641
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: get this man and again, and it's because you said,

642
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: with all the moving parts, basically said that there's currently

643
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: too many unknowns to get a good handle on what

644
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: an appropriate valuation is for Tesla. You see as a

645
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: potentially a train wreck, is it? Well, it could be.

646
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: I mean I think if you if you have a

647
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: stock that's down, I think that's the beginning of train

648
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: wreck anyway, if if it if it isn't in its

649
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: own right, But I do think that there are For

650
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: first of all, it's a it's a great company. But

651
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: one of the things that we spent we try to

652
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time doing when we're looking at

653
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: stocks is trying to separate the difference between a great

654
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 1: company and a really good stock. And I do believe

655
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: it's a great company. We just don't believe it's a

656
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: great stock right now. And you know, some of the

657
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: unknowns uh you know, have been have been pretty well documented.

658
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: You know ed talked about about some of them. Um.

659
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: You know, when you go from having a over a

660
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: three month three month wait list to get to get

661
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: a car to none when you see price price cuts

662
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: in China. Now, granted China is a little different market,

663
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: but they do have competition, so you know, how long

664
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 1: until those price cuts come to the United States? And

665
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: so you you you put those things together and then

666
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what's the appropriate price for that?

667
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: What are you supposed to pay for for for for

668
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: these earnings? And you know, there are a lot of

669
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: people that will say, well, now it's trading at twenty

670
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: four times I think it's twenty four times something like that. Um,

671
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: so it's down for it sounds significantly so, and it's down,

672
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: so that must be okay, And that's not the way

673
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: I think investors are supposed to look at it. Uh.

674
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: And what I meant by unknowns is because we don't know,

675
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: because it's unclear whether how long the price cuts are

676
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: gonna have to keep going in China, whether they're going

677
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: to come to the United States. Um, why why would

678
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: you jump in now? Why wouldn't you just wait to

679
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: to let the dusk clear? Because I don't think it's

680
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: going to get away from you? Ikaroking It estimated p

681
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: currently training at thirty times that maybe even more innovated

682
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: to certain degree. Mark are what do you need to hear?

683
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: Is it the cult around you know, mosque, the way

684
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 1: he can talk up a stock? Is it the fundamentals

685
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: you need to see change in China? Yes? Is there

686
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: anything that could be fixed and would immediate make you

687
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: go ah, this is getting back to a good stock again.

688
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say immediately, but certainly there are some things.

689
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: I think the rhetoric, I mean, one of the interesting things,

690
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: and we I said this in a meeting yesterday is

691
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: when's the last time Musk tweeted something that was silly?

692
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: I mean he's done, he does it a lot, But

693
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: I think he's starting to get it. I mean, I

694
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: think he's starting to get that that that, you know,

695
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: much of the things that he's doing outwardly is not

696
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: helping not helping Tesla, So we he it appears he's

697
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: backed off of that. I do think, I mean, demands

698
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: the issue. And frankly, it's not just the United States

699
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: and talked about Ford. Uh you know, they've they've got

700
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: really good, robust competition in China. Um, I think it's

701
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: waiting a quarter or two to see where is demand

702
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: really going to shake out? You know. And the other

703
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: thing is said, you know, they've sort of had this

704
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: market to themselves for quite a long time. Uh. And

705
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: and and you know there are other companies that can

706
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: make good evs. Certainly Tesla makes a good ev but

707
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: other companies do as well. I mean, the must than

708
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: is pretty cool. Actually, hey Mark, I just want to

709
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: point out real quick, you guys do hold Tesla shares,

710
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: don't you. We We we do own it. I will

711
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: be quick to tell you that we are underweighted. We

712
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: we're benchmarked to the SP five hundred, So we own it.

713
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: We're own it, but we're underweight. And frankly, if you

714
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: have a second. I'll talk a little bit about that,

715
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: because I think it's mean to us. The volatility of Tesla,

716
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: both on the upside and the downside, is such that

717
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: we think being out of it completely exposes you too

718
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: much to to to the SP five hundred, So we

719
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: are underweighted. That's kind of a sort of market structure

720
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: and dynamics point. We showed a banner essentially on the

721
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: show a second ago about Tesla's expansion plans in China

722
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: being on paws and what Bloomberg reported even I it

723
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: was according to sources, this plan to double the capacity

724
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: of the Shanghai plant to nearly two million vehicles annually

725
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: is on the whole due to influence from the Chinese government.

726
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: The concern is that Elon Musk, who is also the

727
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: CEO SpaceX and and SpaceX offering the starlink product is

728
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: concerning to the Chinese government because if starlink would be

729
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 1: able to use in mainland China, it could bypass Chinese firewalls,

730
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: et cetera. Just bringing you the Bloomberg reporting latest on that.

731
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: My question, how core is the China story to a

732
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: name like Tesla and how closely our investors like you

733
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: watching the economy in China. It's it's very important and

734
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: I do think actually it's interesting. I think the reporting

735
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: that you just talked about is likely correct. I also

736
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: wonder how much of the putting putting it on pause was.

737
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: We see a lot more competition now that we do.

738
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: It's six months ago, a year ago, and and and

739
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: therefore it might be prudent to to slow your role

740
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: a little bit um rather than go full full force.

741
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: But we we do look at not only do we

742
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: look at the number of vehicles that are being being delivered,

743
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: we we do look at a geography in China. China

744
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: is a big market and that's why I mean, that's

745
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: why there are a lot of other ev players in there. Um,

746
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: So it is it is important. Can we talk a

747
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: little bit about Disney and my understanding is you have

748
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: a very smallholding of Disney. But you know, we've talked

749
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: in the show about what's happening with activists, Investor Trey

750
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: and Nelson Pelts. Does Pelts have a point? That is

751
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: the question? I think the short answer is absolutely. You know,

752
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: let's let's let's look at a couple of facts. One

753
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: is I think it starts. I think the issues with

754
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: Disney start at the top. And I don't mean Bob

755
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: I your I mean the board. I think the board

756
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: has The board has sat around and watched this company

757
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: since two thousand sixteen underperformed the S and P five

758
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 1: hundred by almost sixty and but for one director, they've

759
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: all sat through all of that. Uh. They also sat

760
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: through trying to figure out how to find a successor

761
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: for Eiger year after year. I mean he I think

762
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: it was four different contracts, the extensions that he had

763
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: before before he ended up vanded up picking shapec um.

764
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: But he does. He does have a point. And I

765
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: think that in many respects Bob Iger. There's a halo

766
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: around Bob Iger. And people say, well, you know, but

767
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: it's Disney. Well, it is Disney, but but the performance

768
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: of Disney has been miserable. Uh. And and you know,

769
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: I think that Nelson Pell's I'm not a big fan

770
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: of activists in general, but but I think that he

771
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: can bring a discipline too. He may be able to

772
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: bring a discipline to Disney that it's been lacking. Uh,

773
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, with whether it's on expenses, whether it's on

774
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: where M and a um, there are a lot of

775
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: things that did it has done wrong. But again everybody,

776
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: everybody has this soft spot in their heart for Disney

777
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 1: and and soft spot in their heart form for Bob Iger.

778
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's for us.

779
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: It's an investment, and that investment has not been very good.

780
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: So you're having one of twelve seats be Nelson Pell's

781
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: when he's come and been very honest about I'm not

782
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: looking to replace Iger. I'm just you know, I think

783
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: we could use some strategy help. I think that the

784
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,439
Speaker 1: Pells might be able to help them. Mark Sto call

785
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: very matter of facts with the investors perspective, No magic

786
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 1: with Disney, Senior portfolio manager in CEO Adams found Mark

787
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: so call, We're great, what to have you on? But

788
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: today's going viral. We had to do the story coming

789
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: out of Twitter in Asia because did you hear Singapore

790
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: office of Twitter it's Asia headquarters. No less, Eddie. We're

791
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 1: told to empty out their desks and vacate the premises

792
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 1: by the end of the day. This is all according

793
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: to people familiar with the situation, and we kind of

794
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: know why in a musk continuing to lower expenses around

795
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: the globe, but you know more than anyone in or

796
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: was he even paying his rent? So there's so many

797
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: threads to this. The first is that that office was

798
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: gutted unfortunately. You know, there was a big victim of

799
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: the layoffs. But it's completely in congress with the policy

800
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: at San Francisco office. Because remember in San Francisco, according

801
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: to sources, and you've seen the photos, they put beds

802
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 1: into the office so that employees could sleep there overnight,

803
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: which of course upset the city efficient sinks he took beds.

804
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: So am I right? He's not paying the landlords in

805
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: San Francisco, but everyone's still made to work there, whereas

806
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: perhaps he's not. Maybe that's the argument here, perhaps paying

807
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 1: over in Singapore, and that's why they they kicked out.

808
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: Didn't the landlords say that there's still a current tenant.

809
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: He's just not paying the rent. You imagine, just stop

810
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: paying your rent. Well, that's what's happening here. Don't go

811
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: doing that meanwhile, that does it. From this edition of

812
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: Bloom Technology Friday, were pleased to say we're having a

813
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: music conversation Luminate CEO Rob Jonas, who is in charge

814
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: of the world's largest music data company, and speaking of

815
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: audio don't forget to check out the podcast I Heart Radio, Apple, Spotify,

816
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. There's a lot to review

817
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: this week. This is Bloomberg