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Speaker 1: Are you okay?

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Speaker 2: No, I'm not okay. I'm the eldest daughter already.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's.

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Speaker 2: Making me sick. According to an article from Fierce by.

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Speaker 1: Me Tho, let's get into it, let's talk about it.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sure that you all out there have seen

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Speaker 2: all the chatter about eldest daughter syndrome, eldest daughters coming

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Speaker 2: to terms with their anxiety, their sense of inflated responsibility,

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Speaker 2: and why they rebelled later in life to being the

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Speaker 2: responsible one.

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Speaker 1: Mm. Yes, there's so much of that online. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, I'm Theosa and I'm Mala, and today, as

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Speaker 1: you may have heard, we are talking about eldest daughter's

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Speaker 1: eldest daughter syndrome. It's not an official diagnosis, but it

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Speaker 1: is kind of like pop psychology. It's recognized as like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a collective experience that eldest daughters are having

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Speaker 1: in this moment or forever, but being acknowledged and recognized

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Speaker 1: in this moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I feels so vindicated because I think across

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Speaker 2: the board, people around the world were asking, why is

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Speaker 2: my oldest sister such a bitch? She's not a bitch,

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Speaker 2: she has a syndrome. Please be kind be patient. Like

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Speaker 2: the parentification is something that a lot of people are

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Speaker 2: talking about, and that came up in this Fierce by

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Speaker 2: Methu article. There's a bunch that they've covered on this

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Speaker 2: topic actually, but literally asking is being the eldest daughter

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Speaker 2: making us sick and tying back the experience of being

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Speaker 2: an eldest daughter even to like pre natally in the womb,

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Speaker 2: how there are like these different hormonal issues that can

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Speaker 2: pop up for the firstborn child and the firstborn daughter,

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Speaker 2: and then how that all manifests later in life with

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Speaker 2: like anxiety and pcos. Even there's a lot of like

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Speaker 2: autoimmune connections to being the eldest daughter, it seems.

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Speaker 1: And you're an eldest daughter.

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Speaker 2: Yes, now I am in perfect health luckily, thank God, clearly,

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Speaker 2: but I was at risk. But I feel like I

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Speaker 2: identify with some things that are being talked about in

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Speaker 2: the eldest daughter conversation. But there are some things that

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Speaker 2: I think are like I don't know, I don't think

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Speaker 2: we're part of my experience. Like the things that I

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Speaker 2: identify with with the oldest daughter syndrome stuff is a

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Speaker 2: you're like a guinea pig for your parents because they've

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Speaker 2: never parented before. They've never had a baby before, you know,

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Speaker 2: if they've never done late nights, changing diapers, they've never

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Speaker 2: a potty trained anybody before. In theory, so I think

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Speaker 2: that like that creates a sense of anxiety in general.

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Speaker 2: Then maybe you don't know that that's there when you're

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Speaker 2: a child, but then I'm sure it manifests, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so like I definitely identify also with the peace

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Speaker 2: about feeling like a sense of responsibility for your younger siblings,

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Speaker 2: like you're responsible for them, particularly when it came to

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Speaker 2: like being an example, like you have to lead, you

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Speaker 2: have to show them how it's done and what's possible,

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Speaker 2: and be a good role model. Like I think that

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Speaker 2: was the type of pressure that was put on me

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Speaker 2: being being the oldest daughter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense, and I am actually the youngest daughter.

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Speaker 1: I'm not the eldest daughter, but I am the only daughter.

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Speaker 1: And for that reason, I feel like there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of overlap in my experience with the conversations that I

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Speaker 1: see about eldest daughters, especially when it comes to making

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Speaker 1: sure that everyone is okay in the family. Feeling that

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Speaker 1: responsibility of like almost being like a little therapist as

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Speaker 1: a kid, or making sure that everyone is like kind

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Speaker 1: of walking into the room and like checking the vibe, like, wait,

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Speaker 1: there's something wrong here, who's upset?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Wait?

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Speaker 1: And I feel like very attuned to other people's emotions,

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Speaker 1: which is exhausting and terrible. But I do think that

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Speaker 1: that's part of being like the only daughter in my household,

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Speaker 1: and I was raised with I wasn't raised with brothers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have brothers, but we weren't raised together

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Speaker 1: because of a really big age gap. So it's like

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Speaker 1: only child, only daughter, but also youngest daughter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting hybrid. Yes, place that you are

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Speaker 2: as a sibling. Yes, but you have a lot of

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Speaker 2: friends who are eldest daughters.

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Speaker 1: I do. I do, which is why I feel like

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Speaker 1: I can commiserate with some of them.

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Speaker 2: I definitely, Yeah, I feel like there's something there, especially

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Speaker 2: with like I remember so many times being the one

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Speaker 2: to like signal to my siblings, like we gotta get

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Speaker 2: up and do something. Yeah, we gotta we gotta clean,

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Speaker 2: we gotta work, we have to like be productive, because

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Speaker 2: like I can tell that mom is on the verge

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Speaker 2: of flipping out, or that my dad is Like I

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Speaker 2: can just sense the energy as he's walking down the

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Speaker 2: driveway to get to the front door, like we gotta,

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Speaker 2: we gotta get into gear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of you know that meme of like

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Speaker 1: I've seen this now in like two iterations where it's

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Speaker 1: like one the meme of like the Latino child that

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Speaker 1: forgot to take the hit out of the fer to

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Speaker 1: do frost right, and then now the iteration I've seen is, oh, so,

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Speaker 1: now I understand why my mom was so upset that

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Speaker 1: I forgot to take the chicken out of the freezer, right.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that there's that responsibility right of

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Speaker 1: like kind of in some ways, because I think you

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Speaker 1: kind of alluded to this of like kind of being

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Speaker 1: a mind reader, because like you know that you can

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Speaker 1: sense as a kid when your parent is maybe about

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Speaker 1: to get upset or maybe like, wait, I'm relaxing way

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Speaker 1: too much right now.

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Speaker 2: I'm too relaxed.

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Speaker 1: I'm too relaxed. I have to like get up and

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Speaker 1: do something in work because because I have to because

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Speaker 1: mom's working or mom's doing something, Mom's getting the house ready,

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Speaker 1: Dad is doing this. So I have to go and

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Speaker 1: do something myself because I have to look productive and

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Speaker 1: like I'm working.

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Speaker 2: I have to contribute to the household, I have to

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Speaker 2: pull my weight. And then realizing that so there were

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Speaker 2: three of us and we're all within five years, Me

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Speaker 2: and my sister are eleven months apart, and so they

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Speaker 2: were outnumbered, you know, like each parent is out numbered

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Speaker 2: like three to one. And so now I can look

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Speaker 2: back and sympathize, like, oh, that's a lot like for

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Speaker 2: one parent or even two parents to manage and handle.

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Speaker 2: Like it's hard enough for me to like manage myself, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, but it's like this small army in my

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Speaker 2: house that I have to feed and keep up after.

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Speaker 2: So then I understand like the leaning on the eldest,

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Speaker 2: you know, presumably like to help. And especially in the summers,

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Speaker 2: this was so tricky because in the summers, as a kid,

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Speaker 2: you want to lounge about and just kind of like

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Speaker 2: be on your own schedule and do nothing. A lot

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Speaker 2: of nothing, yes, unless but you know, unless extracurriculars, camp,

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Speaker 2: what have you. But those days when you're just at

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Speaker 2: home not doing shit, golden, golden, But then that that

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Speaker 2: fear the second you realize it's over and you've been

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Speaker 2: lounging for ten hours.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, oh, wait, I have to get up

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Speaker 1: and do something. There is that sense of responsibility of

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Speaker 1: maybe being the eldest daughter and being like the bonus parent, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and being very helpful, maybe like overally helpful, like maybe

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Speaker 1: not in a way that appropriate for a child of

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Speaker 1: said age, right, but it's kind of comes with there's

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Speaker 1: so many layers as to why that happens, right, Parenting

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Speaker 1: is stressful, economic, you know, barriers, language, barriers, there's so

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Speaker 1: many different reasons that the eldest daughter becomes like the

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Speaker 1: bonus parent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's such a trap because parents have a

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Speaker 2: hard enough time parenting as like full blown adults, and

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Speaker 2: then there's this sort of pressure for the eldest child

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Speaker 2: to do a version of parenting. And a child is

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Speaker 2: not as a parent, it's a child. So I remember

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Speaker 2: having feelings of anxiety about like, oh, what am I

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Speaker 2: going to do with these kids? Like you know, my brother,

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Speaker 2: like somebody's got to straighten him out. What am I

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Speaker 2: gonna do? And like, of course that's so overwhelming for

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Speaker 2: a kid because you don't know anything, right, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so then I remember at some point my mom

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Speaker 2: did say to me, like these are my kids, and

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Speaker 2: you're my and you don't have to parent them like

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Speaker 2: we've got it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think that's a good boundary. Your

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Speaker 1: mom said that. We're not seeing in the types of

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Speaker 1: examples folks are sharing online. It's very much like there

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Speaker 1: were no boundaries. My parents made me the bonus parent

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Speaker 1: without even realizing it, or maybe without even knowing that

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Speaker 1: they were making me bonus parent. It was just something

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Speaker 1: that I had to do as the eldest.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really unfortunate. And then I think it

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Speaker 2: creates resentment between the kids. The youngest kids are like

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Speaker 2: resentful or grateful towards the oldest sibling because either they

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Speaker 2: needed that third parent and are so grateful that that

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Speaker 2: sibling stepped up, or those youngest kids absolutely did not

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Speaker 2: need a third parent, and instead of having a sibling relationship,

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Speaker 2: it's this pseudo parental relationship. And then it's like, but

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Speaker 2: you're my sibling. You know, why were you acting like

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Speaker 2: you were in charge of me all these years?

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Speaker 3: Don't go anywhere, look amotives, We'll.

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Speaker 2: Be right back, and we're back with more of our episode.

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Speaker 1: Being an eldest daughter and having eldest daughter syndrome. There's

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Speaker 1: actually eight symptoms. If you will of being an eldest daughter,

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Speaker 1: and one is you have an intense feeling of responsibility.

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Speaker 1: You're an overachiever type A and very driven. You worry

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Speaker 1: a lot and probably have anxiety. You struggle with people

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Speaker 1: pleasing behaviors, you have a hard time placing and upholding boundaries,

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Speaker 1: You resent your siblings and a family, You struggle with

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Speaker 1: feelings of guilt, and you have a difficult time in

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Speaker 1: your adult relationships. And the person who broke this down

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Speaker 1: for us is licensed marriage and family therapist Katie Morden,

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Speaker 1: who broke down the eight signs of eldest Daughter Syndrome

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Speaker 1: in a TikTok video, and she has also stated like

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Speaker 1: this is not an official mental health diagnosis, but it

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Speaker 1: is defined as the unique pressures and responsibilities placed onto

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Speaker 1: the oldest daughter in the family. Also, keeping in mind

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Speaker 1: like gender is a very big dynamic in what responsibility

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Speaker 1: or what role the eldest takes on in the family,

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Speaker 1: we know eldest sons don't always have that same type

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Speaker 1: of pressure and responsibility. They get to just be the

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Speaker 1: eldest son. And I know one of my homegirls says,

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Speaker 1: I would like to come back in my second life

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Speaker 1: as the eldest son in a Latino family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just chill, just glad, chill, just glide. From the

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Speaker 2: same article, Apparently, studies have found links between a person's

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Speaker 2: role in the family and different outcomes. And I think

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Speaker 2: this specific list of outcomes is so interesting as it

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Speaker 2: relates to eldest daughters, but educational attainment and IQ financial

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Speaker 2: risk tolerance, participation in dangerous sports. I love this because

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Speaker 2: this feels so relatable. Oh, eldest daughters experience like high

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Speaker 2: IQ smart people who are academically high achieving, but financial

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Speaker 2: risk tolerance, don't mind spending money, and maybe if not

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Speaker 2: dangerous sports, but like thrill.

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Speaker 1: Seeking, risk adrenaline seeking.

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Speaker 2: Adrenaline seeking behaviors. Identify with all of those things.

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Speaker 1: What would you say has been like the most maybe

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Speaker 1: like risk taking or adrenaline that you want to share?

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Speaker 2: Oh, girl, I can't say that on air, not anymore.

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Speaker 2: We've cleaned up, We've cleaned up our acts.

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Speaker 1: Well, I will say, like, for me, there was a

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Speaker 1: time where I like loved the idea of like going skydiving,

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Speaker 1: going bungee jumping, like in that way, like adrenaline seeking

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Speaker 1: type of activities, And now I'm like absolutely not. I

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Speaker 1: think that comes with being thirty, where I'm like, ooh,

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Speaker 1: I have a lot to lose. I have a business,

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Speaker 1: I have family, I have dogs. Don't want to lose

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Speaker 1: any of that. But there was a time in my

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Speaker 1: life where I like loved that type of like thrill seeking.

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Speaker 1: I did skydive. I skydived at eighteen. Now that I

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Speaker 1: look back, I was nineteen. Maybe when I look back,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, your frontal lobe clearly had

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Speaker 1: not developed yet and you were totally fine jumping out

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Speaker 1: of a plane. I wouldn't do it again. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: I did it. But I do think that I very

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Speaker 1: much loved the idea of like thrill seeking because I

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Speaker 1: was not a rebel in any way as a kid.

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Speaker 1: So it's like my rebellious years I feel like came

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Speaker 1: later in.

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Speaker 2: Life, absolutely, and I think that's healthier. Yeah, it's healthier,

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Speaker 2: and then you can really to an extent, understand what

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Speaker 2: you're doing and then enjoy it.

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Speaker 3: Don't go anywhere, lokomotives, We'll be right back, and we're

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Speaker 3: back with more of our episode.

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Speaker 1: I do think that rebelling as a kid or a teenager,

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Speaker 1: even like a young adult, right like eighteen nineteen, Like

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Speaker 1: is a good, like healthy distancing that you kind of

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Speaker 1: place with yourself and your parents to separate, create your

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Speaker 1: own identity, your own like explore your likes, your wants,

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Speaker 1: your desires, your dreams, all of that. But I think

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Speaker 1: like for me, that came later in life because it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I have to do all the things my parents said

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to do, right, which was like get

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Speaker 1: good grades, graduate and go to a university. And then

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Speaker 1: it's like I can start doing my own thing. Which

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Speaker 1: even then I'm like, it's still their expectations of what

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to do wait on me. Which is

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Speaker 1: also why I'm so grateful that they got on board

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Speaker 1: with this like entrepreneur thing. They don't always get it.

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Speaker 1: They don't understand really the economics of podcasting.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people don't know.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I don't even get it. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I think in that way, like I very

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Speaker 1: much went like outside of the box of their expectations

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Speaker 1: for me. My dad wanted me to be a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: you know my mom. My mom was just happy I

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Speaker 1: went to school. Like, I don't think she had any

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Speaker 1: like expectations of like a career for me. It was like,

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Speaker 1: I support what you want to do. But my dad

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Speaker 1: was like he had like expectations of me to be

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Speaker 1: a lawyer, even even a couple of years ago. He

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Speaker 1: was like, you can be an entertainment lawyer. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, that sounds miserable and boring.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we hire someone else to do that.

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Speaker 1: We have the entertainment lawyer. He works for us. Yes, yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I think I think some good some good like

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Speaker 1: healthy rebelliousness, rebelling I think is good. It's good for

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Speaker 1: a like a young an adolescent that I don't think

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Speaker 1: that the eldest daughters get to experience.

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Speaker 2: No, it's very important. It's very important because if you

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Speaker 2: don't have your period of rebellion, which is really just

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Speaker 2: creating like your space in the world right and just

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Speaker 2: distinguishing yourself from your family unit as an individual, I

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Speaker 2: think is it's a rupture from your bubble, a healthy rupture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: To get out of your bubble, you have to break

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Speaker 2: the bubble sometimes. So I feel like that piece is

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Speaker 2: really important. And I think that if you don't have

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Speaker 2: that period of independence and rebellion, then you go from

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Speaker 2: being this parentified oldest daughter, and you're taking care of

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Speaker 2: siblings and taking care of a family in a particular way.

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Speaker 2: So then eventually, if that's the path for you getting

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Speaker 2: married and having kids and doing it all over again,

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Speaker 2: and so when do you have your moment of freedom?

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Speaker 2: When do you have your decade that belongs to you?

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Speaker 2: And so I think that like feminism really helped me

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Speaker 2: to orient myself and understand like the labor that comes

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Speaker 2: with this life, you know, but it's NonStop, and so

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Speaker 2: you have to choose yourself and say no and break

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Speaker 2: away and rebel and maybe take care of yourself. Means

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Speaker 2: you can't take care of your family constantly. Every day,

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Speaker 2: somebody else has to step up and do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and often the eldest daughter won't step away, right

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Speaker 1: and because also other people won't step up, having that

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Speaker 1: separation is really important, and going out on your own

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Speaker 1: is really important. One of the things that really scared

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Speaker 1: me about getting married was this idea of going from parents'

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Speaker 1: house to husband's house, like never having that moment of

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Speaker 1: independence and living on your own. And that ended up

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Speaker 1: being my journey. I ended up moving back home and

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Speaker 1: helping my parents and then getting married and staying to

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Speaker 1: help my parents, and so it was my partner that

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Speaker 1: ended up moving in with us, and so it's like

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Speaker 1: I'm still in the family home. And that was a

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Speaker 1: sacrifice I made, and then my partner made so that

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Speaker 1: we could take care of my mom and I would

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Speaker 1: do it all over again. And that's something that I

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Speaker 1: talk about in therapy all the time, like I know

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Speaker 1: that I should break away, I should let my parents

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Speaker 1: figure out what they need to do to sustain the house,

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Speaker 1: to have their own lives, to have their own relationship.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not built that way. That's not me. And

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Speaker 1: there's a really there's a not a big part of me,

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Speaker 1: but there is a part of me that wishes like

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Speaker 1: that said, like okay, bye, I'm leaving figure it out.

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Speaker 1: Y'all are on your own because you're adults, and I'm

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Speaker 1: an adult and I need to leave. But that is

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Speaker 1: just not who I am. And so it came with

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Speaker 1: a sacrifice, multiple sacrifices. But it also, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think gave me the stability that I needed to be

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Speaker 1: the entrepreneur that I am. Give my mom the stability

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Speaker 1: to like age in her home, you know, and be

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Speaker 1: comfortable in her home as opposed to moving out, selling

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Speaker 1: buying something smaller, and so it did come with the sacrifice,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's part of being the daughter in

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Speaker 1: the family for me at least.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And every family is different and so then the

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Speaker 2: needs of the daughter or the responsibilities vary from family

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Speaker 2: to family. But it seems that there are some commonalities,

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Speaker 2: you know, that tie the experience together, at least based

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Speaker 2: on what we're seeing on the internet and in the

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Speaker 2: journalism that's reflecting what we're seeing on the internet.

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Speaker 1: The therapists are talking about it.

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Speaker 2: The therapists are talking about it. Science is studying this.

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Speaker 2: There is a phenomenon, and I mean it makes sense,

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Speaker 2: you know, like just historically the way that we talk

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Speaker 2: about women and girls as being they mature faster than boys,

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Speaker 2: you know, and that's just a very basic like there's

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Speaker 2: this idea of this gender difference, right, that means that

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Speaker 2: girls are more responsible at a younger age, and then

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Speaker 2: you trickle down to like the specific family unit and

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Speaker 2: then the order in which kids are born, and it's

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Speaker 2: this domino effect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like, were you ever told you were mature

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Speaker 1: for your age? Right? You probably were the eldest daughter,

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Speaker 1: And I remember being told that all the time, Like

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Speaker 1: I was so mature for my age. And I think

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Speaker 1: because I grew up with a lot of adults, Like

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have children around me growing up. Eventually

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Speaker 1: I did as we moved and I got closer to

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Speaker 1: like other sides of my family, But there was a

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Speaker 1: period where it's like I was just growing up with adults,

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Speaker 1: like they were either teenagers or in their early twenties.

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Speaker 1: So I was like a little adult as a kid

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Speaker 1: because I didn't have children around me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I identify with like being that kid who like

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Speaker 2: at parties, I wanted to be in the kitchen to

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Speaker 2: hear the mom's gossip.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to know what their husbands did that pissed

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Speaker 2: them off. I needed to know. I needed to know

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Speaker 2: why so and so kicked her husband out of the house, yeah,

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Speaker 2: or why he was sleeping on the couch or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff stuff. There's good cheese. Men. That comes with

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Speaker 1: being I think the girl, the girl that like is

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Speaker 1: the mature one, the eldest, or just like a good listener.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But I also enjoyed taking that gossip and then

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Speaker 2: taking it back to the kids. Oh you would spread it, Oh, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: So innocreatively what I deserved in the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I definitely did not do that. I learned

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Speaker 1: to keep things to myself. There was just something about

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Speaker 1: me being a kid that just understood intuitively, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: these things are not to be shared, Like I can

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Speaker 1: hear them, and I love hearing them, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: supposed to tell anyone.

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Speaker 2: Oh I see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, I had my little like sisterhood of the Traveling Pants,

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Speaker 2: little gaggle of girlies, of course, and we loved some

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Speaker 2: good adult gossip we did in our little and also

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Speaker 2: oldest daughters, both of them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you, But I think for you, you in particular,

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Speaker 1: it's like your friends, your your friend's parents were also friends,

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Speaker 1: so that also made it even U It's like, oh

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Speaker 1: my mom said this, and it's like, oh, but my mom.

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Speaker 2: Said, oh, good stuff, good stuff. Yes, So I mean, gosh, oh,

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Speaker 2: to be a girl, Oh, to be a girl in.

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Speaker 1: The world, it's like girlhood being a daughter, and I

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Speaker 1: think stepping outside of just daughter role, I think has

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Speaker 1: been the reckoning that the eldest daughters are having online.

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Speaker 1: Of Wait, I'm exhausted. I'm really tired of being the

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Speaker 1: parentified child. I'm now the adult child, and I'm now

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Speaker 1: empowered to maybe set boundaries or step away or even

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Speaker 1: just acknowledge the experience that I had as a kid

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Speaker 1: that maybe was not okay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I also think like as we grow and we

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Speaker 2: make choices for ourselves, I've felt this way, Like I

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Speaker 2: have felt like by stepping away from some of the

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Speaker 2: things that my parents wanted for me, I've been better

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Speaker 2: able to become the person I'm supposed to be. Like,

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Speaker 2: I think that sometimes in their attempt to love us

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Speaker 2: and like createle us, it's like, h but if I

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Speaker 2: stay here with you, like where do I go? Mm

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Speaker 2: hmmm while I'm here with you, you know, And so

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Speaker 2: as much as it hurts, sometimes I think that like

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Speaker 2: just seeing what can happen when you give your children

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Speaker 2: space and room, Like of course they're gonna blossom, you know,

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Speaker 2: like the plant is gonna fill the pot.

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Speaker 1: Everyone needs room to grow.

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Speaker 2: Everyone needs room to grow. And so that's what I

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Speaker 2: want for eldest daughters. Yea, you give yourself permission to

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Speaker 2: take care of yourself and love yourself and give yourself

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Speaker 2: space to grow.

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Speaker 1: Lok at A Radio is executive produced by Viosa fem

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Speaker 1: and Mala Munios.

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Franco is our producer.

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Speaker 1: Story editing by Me diosa.

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Speaker 2: Creative direction by me Mala.

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Speaker 1: Dura podcast network.

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