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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V.

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Speaker 2: Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. We talked about the Stone

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Speaker 2: of Schoon. We did this this week, something people still

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Speaker 2: have incredibly strong feelings about. Like here is a quote

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Speaker 2: from a twenty twenty one piece in Scotland's The National

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Speaker 2: by Hamish McPherson. Quote, Today is the seven hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty fifth anniversary of arguably the greatest theft in Scottish history,

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Speaker 2: if you exclude the Act of Union and our removal

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Speaker 2: from the European Union against the will of the Scottish people.

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Speaker 2: I have no idea what the rest of this piece says,

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Speaker 2: because it is paywall, and sadly I cannot pay to

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Speaker 2: unpaywall every single thing that crosses my radar. One of

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Speaker 2: the books I read on this is by someone called

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Speaker 2: Professor Warwick Rodwell, and Professor Warwick Rodwell works in a

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Speaker 2: consulting role with the Deanon Chapter of Westminster. I forgot

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Speaker 2: to write down the exact title, and his entire book

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Speaker 2: sounds so irritated, so irritated about the stone having been

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Speaker 2: sent back to Scotland, so irritated about the nineteen fifty

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Speaker 2: removal of the stone, so irritated about all of the

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Speaker 2: mythology around it, just profoundly irritated the whole way through.

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Speaker 2: So for example, there's a section about the authenticity of

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Speaker 2: the stone that says, quote, A great deal has already

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Speaker 2: been written about this subject, and it would consume too

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Speaker 2: much space to rehearse all the wayward arguments here. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: the whole tone of that, I was just like, man,

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Speaker 2: you sound like you just want to.

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Speaker 3: Put up, put out everyone involved with this in detention.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: One thing that I had in the outline.

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Speaker 2: That I took out because it felt like a digression

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Speaker 2: that it's also interesting and funny to me, so I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about it now is what happened with

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Speaker 2: the Coronation Share and the Stone of Schoon during World

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Speaker 2: War Two. Okay, people in London were really afraid that

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Speaker 2: something was going to happen to the Stone and the

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Speaker 2: Coronation Share, like being bombed. I mean this was a

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Speaker 2: reasonable fear, right Britain was under attack directly during World

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Speaker 2: War Two. So the chair was taken to Gloucester Cathedral.

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Speaker 2: It was put into a sort of recessed space, and

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Speaker 2: then it was walled in with sandbags. And then the

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Speaker 2: stone was placed in a burial vault under abbot Islap's

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Speaker 2: chapel in Westminster Abbey. They thought that would be a

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Speaker 2: safer place for it in case the abbey was like

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Speaker 2: directly hit with a bomb. However, they were also afraid

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Speaker 2: of the location being leaked and afraid that if there

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Speaker 2: was a major attack on London, if they like really

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Speaker 2: limited who knew where the stone was, it would be

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Speaker 2: possible that everybody who knew would be killed. So they

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Speaker 2: needed to take some extra steps to make sure that

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Speaker 2: there was information about where the stone was hidden outside

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Speaker 2: of England. So they sent a sealed letter to the

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister of Canada, which was placed in a bank

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Speaker 2: in Ottawa. And then they were like, what if something

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Speaker 2: happens to that, So they sent a backup copy to

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Speaker 2: the Lieutenant Governor they probably say Lieutenant Governor that was

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Speaker 2: placed in a bank in Montreal. A third copy was

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Speaker 2: kept in the UK until they had word that those

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Speaker 2: two other envelopes had arrived safely in Canada. This maybe

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Speaker 2: seems a little excessive, it honestly, it was not all

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Speaker 2: the correspondents relating to all of these plans. Was in

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Speaker 2: the office of the Dean of Westminster when it was

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Speaker 2: hit by an incendiary bomb in nineteen forty one, and

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Speaker 2: the documents did survive, but like there's some burned parts.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, I found that whole story kind of wild. Also,

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Speaker 2: we alluded to the fact that most of what we

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Speaker 2: know about this heist today is from the perspective of

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Speaker 2: people who were part of it, telling stories a lot

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Speaker 2: of times in a very dramatic, colorful way, particularly Ian Hamilton.

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Speaker 2: Ian Hamilton talked about this a lot. He comes across

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Speaker 2: in a lot of accounts like almost as the sole

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Speaker 2: perpetrator of the whole thing, which is really not the case.

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Speaker 2: He definitely made it sound like a very Robin Hood

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Speaker 2: rob from the rich and give to the poor kind

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Speaker 2: of thing. They all come across as kind of like

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Speaker 2: roguish scoundrels, and he comes across as kind of self promotional.

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Speaker 2: So I found it very funny that in that two

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Speaker 2: thousand and eight movie version of this which I watched

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Speaker 2: over the weekend, eventually every person that he has a

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Speaker 2: dialogue with at some point tells him basically, you are

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Speaker 2: sure full of yourself. I found that very funny. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that it's like we sort of

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Speaker 2: think this is how it went down, but we're we're

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Speaker 2: having to draw from a narrative that's like intentionally written

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Speaker 2: to be entertaining. Right.

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Speaker 1: For a lot of it, we Chris crossed with an

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Speaker 1: episode of Criminalia that we did several seasons back regarding

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Speaker 1: Margaret made of Norway. Okay, because I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you came across this anything, but ten years after she

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Speaker 1: died at the age of seven, tragically, a woman came

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Speaker 1: forward claiming that she was, in fact Margaret. I did

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Speaker 1: not find that She's known as the false Margaret, and

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Speaker 1: it's there were people that believed her, even though there

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Speaker 1: was so much evidence against it. Like Margaret's father had

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Speaker 1: identified the body. Margaret would have been seventeen with this

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Speaker 1: woman came forward and she was like estimated to be

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Speaker 1: in her forties. Like there were just people that wanted

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Speaker 1: to believe so badly that this was really Margaret and

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Speaker 1: that everything was going to change with all of those

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Speaker 1: thirteen claimants in the whole chaos that had happened, And

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Speaker 1: it made me think about I want to put this

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Speaker 1: very carefully because I don't want anyone to feel like

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Speaker 1: their position or their opinion on the Stone of Schoon

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Speaker 1: is denigrated. But it made me think about just the

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Speaker 1: ways that people will put their faith in a thing

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Speaker 1: that doesn't have supporting evidence because they want it so badly.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, we don't really know the scoop on

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Speaker 1: the Stone of Scoon, but it is so hotly contested,

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Speaker 1: and so it just kind of, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: tickled me. It's right word. It occurred to me how

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Speaker 1: there are these interwoven pieces of this story that similarly

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Speaker 1: have people believing things really hard even though they can't

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Speaker 1: really prove that their belief has like factual backup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are people who are hardcore believing the various

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Speaker 2: conspiracy theories, either that Edward took the wrong one or

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Speaker 2: that the wrong one was returned, or possibly both.

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Speaker 3: Like like, there's.

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Speaker 2: Some arguments that like both of those conspiracy theories are true,

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Speaker 2: that not only did he take the wrong one, but

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Speaker 2: also the wrong one was then returned in nineteen fifty one,

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Speaker 2: And it really does seem like both of those conspiracy

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Speaker 2: theories came about way later. Some of the specific things

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Speaker 2: that people cite as evidence are things that are demonstrably untrue.

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Speaker 3: Like there's an argument of like.

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Speaker 2: Well, Scotland did not ask for the stoneback because they

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Speaker 2: already knew that they had the real stone, and it's like,

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Speaker 2: but no, they did, though they did ask for the

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Speaker 2: stone back. We have it written down, so anyway, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of funny to me, how like they are definitely,

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Speaker 2: for short, one hundred percent of people who have incredibly

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Speaker 2: strong feelings about this today. But what I found written

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Speaker 2: about it in recent years is more broadly written like

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Speaker 2: a heist adventure than stuff written in the fifties when

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Speaker 2: people were largely appalled and outraged. There are accounts that

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Speaker 2: make it sort of seem like everybody like they took

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Speaker 2: it back to Scotland and everybody was cheering in the streets,

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Speaker 2: and there were some people who were excited, but there

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Speaker 2: were a lot of people who were like, whoa, no,

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Speaker 2: that what you stole from a church on Christmas? Like

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Speaker 2: what is wrong with you? And of course people who

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Speaker 2: were like politicians who wanted to seem respectable, who wanted to,

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Speaker 2: you know, keep a generally positive relationship with England's It

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Speaker 2: comes across as like a universally more embraced heist than

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Speaker 2: it really was. Yeah, yeah, and again am I thing

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Speaker 2: about all of that? It just I, in fact want

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Speaker 2: to convey the opposite of what that might sound like,

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Speaker 2: where I'm like, why is everybody getting wanted up about

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Speaker 2: a thing they don't know for sure?

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Speaker 1: But it's more like it points to the importance of

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Speaker 1: these shared concepts of history that we cling to, right

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Speaker 1: like that, There's there's something interesting that humans are inherently

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Speaker 1: prone to wanting to find those touchstones that are things

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Speaker 1: they can like connect to, even if they don't always

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Speaker 1: have the backup on it, And that to me is

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Speaker 1: just a fascinating part of being a human.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked about the Banu Musa because I played

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Speaker 2: Assassin's Green Mirage.

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Speaker 3: We certainly did.

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Speaker 2: I do not know if this is accurate, and I

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Speaker 2: only found one source that said it, so I didn't

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Speaker 2: put it in the episode. But I did find a

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Speaker 2: source saying that the House of Wisdom was the first

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Speaker 2: library in the world to organize its collection by subject. Fascinating,

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Speaker 2: no idea if that's actually accurate or not. Did not

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Speaker 2: really have the ability to run it down. This is

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Speaker 2: right up there with our recent episodes about Catalonia, in

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Speaker 2: that we did not learn a lot of this in school. No,

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Speaker 2: and even having done multiple prior episodes related to either

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Speaker 2: the Islamic Golden Age specifically or the period right after that,

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Speaker 2: there was still just a ton of stuff that I

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Speaker 2: was like, mine did not know about this at all,

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Speaker 2: anarchy as Samara didn't know. I got to the part

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Speaker 2: about how you know, when they were kids their dad

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Speaker 2: was an astrologer and astronomer to a man who later

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Speaker 2: became the caliph. It was not written about in the

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Speaker 2: like the brief write ups that I read as though

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Speaker 2: that had involved a civil war.

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Speaker 3: So like when I just put.

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Speaker 2: Their names of al Amin and al Rashid into Google,

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Speaker 2: suddenly I discovered there was something called the Brothers War,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, did not know that that ever happened.

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Speaker 2: So this was definitely an episode that involved stumbling on

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Speaker 2: a lot of things that were a major part of

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Speaker 2: history in this part of the world that I knew

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Speaker 2: nothing about, and also feeling like the resources that we

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Speaker 2: had in English were not entirely sufficient, right, I would

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Speaker 2: like for there to be just a much richer body

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Speaker 2: of work in English on the body Musa than we

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Speaker 2: actually have. And of course I also want to talk

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Speaker 2: about Assassin's Creed a little bit. Yeah, so I enjoyed

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Speaker 2: this game a whole lot. Reviews I have read of

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Speaker 2: it by like Arab Americans, people who grew up in Baghdad,

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Speaker 2: people who have lived there, I would describe as mixed.

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Speaker 2: Like I read a lot of people who were like,

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Speaker 2: I was so happy to have a video game set

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Speaker 2: in the Islamic Golden Age. It was so great to

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Speaker 2: be in a video game and hearing people speak Arabic

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Speaker 2: and not having those be the terrorists cell, which is,

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Speaker 2: you know, a trope in a lot of video games,

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Speaker 2: and just people talking about little details about the world

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Speaker 2: that are that they found really good and like good

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Speaker 2: representation to use that idea. I also read some reviews

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Speaker 2: from folks that were more like I was so excited

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Speaker 2: that there was going to be a game set in

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Speaker 2: the Islamic Golden Age, and I really felt like it

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Speaker 2: was just the backdrop of a game that was mostly

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Speaker 2: about assassinating a corrupt cabal of people. And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: that's number one, totally fair as a criticism. Number two,

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Speaker 2: that is sort of what the Assassin's Creed games are, Like,

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Speaker 2: It's a game where you assassinate a lot of people

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Speaker 2: from a corrupt cabal, right at least that is how

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Speaker 2: the game frames it. Some things I personally really enjoyed

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Speaker 2: about the game, As you know, a person who just

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Speaker 2: has never been to this part of the world.

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Speaker 3: I liked a lot how beautiful it was.

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Speaker 2: There are little in game elements that you can interact

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Speaker 2: with in this game that are historical sites that tell

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Speaker 2: you something about the history of this place.

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Speaker 3: It's just really nice.

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Speaker 2: There are some places you can find that don't play

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Speaker 2: an actual part in the story that are significant in

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Speaker 2: some way, and there's, you know, an explanation of why

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Speaker 2: that was significant. And I really like you sort of

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Speaker 2: build a whole encyclopedia of Baghdad during the Islamic Golden

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Speaker 2: Age over the course of the game if you interact

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Speaker 2: with all of these elements in the game, which I

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Speaker 2: thought was pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: A thing I felt awkward. I only noticed this happening

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Speaker 2: at sunset in the game. I don't know if it

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Speaker 2: happens more then at sunset. That was when it would

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Speaker 2: catch my attention. Is the call to prayer. You hear

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Speaker 2: the call to prayer happening, which is like a super

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Speaker 2: important part of, you know, a Muslim country. I would

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Speaker 2: stop what I was doing because I felt like it

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Speaker 2: was really disrespectful, oh right to assassinate some people during

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Speaker 2: the call to prayer. I was like, that feels wrong

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Speaker 2: to me. I don't want to do it. I have

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Speaker 2: no idea how anyone else feels about that. That was

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Speaker 2: just what I felt like as a player. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: game I was pretty into, and then my us as

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Speaker 2: I opened up the game one day, it was like

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Speaker 2: Black Friday sale, would you like to buy Assassin's Creed

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Speaker 2: origins for fourteen dollars? And I was like, absolutely less, yes,

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Speaker 2: I would. So like now I'm playing that one which

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Speaker 2: is said in Egypt, which I have not played before.

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Speaker 3: I know it's older.

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Speaker 2: I did not start playing the Assassin's Creed games until Odyssey,

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Speaker 2: because Patrick bought it for me as a Christmas present,

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Speaker 2: having heard that it was a game he thought I

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Speaker 2: would like.

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Speaker 3: That was correct. I love that game. It's really good.

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Speaker 2: So Happy Friday. Whatever's happening on your weekend, if it

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Speaker 2: involves some video games, I hope you have so much

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Speaker 2: video game fun. If you're having to work this weekend,

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Speaker 2: I hope that goes great. And that everybody is great

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Speaker 2: that you have to work with, and that if you're

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Speaker 2: working with the public, the public is also great. We'll

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Speaker 2: be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow, and we will

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Speaker 2: move back with something brand new on Monday. Stuff you

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Speaker 2: Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.