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Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana.

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Speaker 2: This is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cal Calahan.

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Speaker 2: Here's Cal.

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Speaker 1: Hey uh special edition Cal's wee can review. Here in

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Speaker 1: the New Year, I got an interview episode with the

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Speaker 1: one and only Mark Kenyon. Mark and I are here

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Speaker 1: on the edge of the new year, as are all

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Speaker 1: of you, and we're staring into the future and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna make some predictions on what that brings or what

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Speaker 1: we can see what's gonna happen. Uh, Mark, how uh

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Speaker 1: how's your new year treating you?

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Speaker 2: I'm excited about it. There's a lot of exciting stuff

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Speaker 2: on the horizon, uh from me personally. I got some

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Speaker 2: cool stuff with the family coming up, lots of you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. The new year just comes in with

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Speaker 2: a lot of open runway, right. You can you can pivot,

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Speaker 2: you can do new things, you can the possibilities open up.

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Speaker 2: Even though really it's it's no different than two or

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Speaker 2: three months ago, it just seems to because it's a

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Speaker 2: new year on the calendar. It just seems like naturally, hey,

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Speaker 2: new stuff, try it out. So that that's got me excited,

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Speaker 2: I'd say.

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Speaker 1: And did you put twenty twenty five to bed the

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Speaker 1: way you wanted it to, Like give me like some

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Speaker 1: peaks valleys of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I feel pretty good about twenty five.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to, you know, do we've got like I'm

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Speaker 2: kind of nerdy kale As you probably know, I'm very

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Speaker 2: big on and actually making like explicit year goals broken

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Speaker 2: down in different categories, and me and my wife like

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Speaker 2: check in on them throughout the year. We have like

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Speaker 2: we'll go out for lunch and talk through, Hey, where

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Speaker 2: are we at on this stuff? And I did pretty

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Speaker 2: good on my twenty five goals. You know. One of

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Speaker 2: them was, for example, to be a good pacer for

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Speaker 2: Giannis on his hundred mile run. Checked that box. One

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Speaker 2: of those goals was to finish my book manuscript on time,

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Speaker 2: which I did so, feeling really good to have that.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a bunch of additional revisions on that

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Speaker 2: project that are still wrapping up right now, but felt

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Speaker 2: very good to have that at least in the oven

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Speaker 2: and well on its way to being fully baked. Some

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Speaker 2: really fun outside adventures, as you know, I caught my

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Speaker 2: first tarpin, which was amazing. You and I went to

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Speaker 2: the Arctic, which was amazing. Had a lot of great

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Speaker 2: wild adventures with my kids. So it was a good

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Speaker 2: It was a good year, and I feel like there's

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Speaker 2: good momentum going into twenty six, so I don't have

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of complaints.

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Speaker 1: Nice dude, that sounds great. I'm pretty blown away by

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Speaker 1: the I guess, like the checks and balances within the household,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if it has to be that way, because I

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Speaker 2: am not good at those things naturally, Like I'm not

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Speaker 2: good at keeping track of stuff naturally, I'm not good

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Speaker 2: at I get tunnel vision. I get very very focused

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Speaker 2: on one thing, which can often be work or something

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Speaker 2: like that, and then I'll lose track of all this

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Speaker 2: other stuff. So over the last like ten plus years,

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Speaker 2: you know, being married and then having kids, I've had

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Speaker 2: to build systems to keep me on track to do

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Speaker 2: those things. So like very focused with goals and like

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Speaker 2: check ins. I have like this daily planner that every

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Speaker 2: day I religiously map everything out, and every week map

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Speaker 2: out the week. If I didn't do that, I would

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Speaker 2: be a complete mess. And I just luckily figured that

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Speaker 2: out about myself early enough that I was able to

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Speaker 2: build these really kind of nerdy processes that have that

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Speaker 2: have held keep me on track.

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Speaker 1: God, that's amazing.

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Speaker 2: I don't know tell my wife that. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if she's as impressed as I am, but doing my best.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I guess it's easy to judge

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Speaker 1: if you don't know what the real consequences are of.

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Speaker 2: Not having right true, Yeah, maybe I should revert back

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Speaker 2: to twenty one year old mark for a few months and.

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Speaker 1: See, yeah, give that for a little while.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh, yeah, look how much Look how much worse

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Speaker 2: it could be.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so in the conservation space, right, we've seen

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Speaker 1: like big, big movement and changes. Right, So, I guess

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Speaker 1: folks will just have to believe me when I say,

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Speaker 1: like this is like the facts of the case. This

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Speaker 1: is a non partisan accounting of big changes to just

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Speaker 1: like starting with agencies, right, like we have seen massive

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Speaker 1: statf reductions and our workforce across our federal agencies, both

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Speaker 1: kind of voluntary and involuntary. That could be a partisan statement, folks,

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Speaker 1: good dig into all this. I suppose we are seeing

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Speaker 1: a definite shift right now in a public position statement

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Speaker 1: sort of way, as in the digging hasn't started to

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Speaker 1: fire up. I want to say, like reignite, but ignite

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Speaker 1: in other areas, a new age of like extractive industry

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Speaker 1: centered around precious metals and oil and gas. Absolutely, So

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Speaker 1: like when we talk about the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge,

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Speaker 1: that's part of that conversation. Ad that's part of that conversation.

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Speaker 1: But also offshore oil and gas all around the country, right,

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Speaker 1: and a loosening of the regulatory framework to enable that

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Speaker 1: type of industry to get up and moving as fast

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Speaker 1: as possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In particular and top of my mind, right, like Waters

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Speaker 1: of the United States wotas. This is like your classic

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Speaker 1: political football of tightening and loosening of the interpretation and

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Speaker 1: language of waters of the United States. This is a

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Speaker 1: huge one for sports mine.

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Speaker 3: Because it enables those who would want to alter, drain,

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Speaker 3: pave over, plow under intermittent wetland ones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and some people that don't know, sorry to interrupt, Yeah, Jay,

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Speaker 2: I was just going to say for people that don't know,

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Speaker 2: this is this is a part of the Clean Water Act.

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Speaker 2: This is this is a portion of that interpretation of

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Speaker 2: a part of that. So this is you know, I

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Speaker 2: think the Clean Water Act is something that everybody knows

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Speaker 2: and realizes like, oh, that's an important thing. When they

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Speaker 2: hear waters of the US, they might not realize that

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Speaker 2: that fits into this bigger, more widely known piece of

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Speaker 2: important you know, environmental legislation. So sorry, carry on, just

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Speaker 2: wanted to throw that out there.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, the the history is always important, right

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Speaker 1: because I feel like I keep saying like, we're at

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Speaker 1: an inflection point right now, and we're here because people

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Speaker 1: have short memories and they've forgotten why these the regulatory

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Speaker 1: frameworks and the protections were put into place in the

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Speaker 1: first place. Right, So, so if you go back into again,

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Speaker 1: not that long ago, but the sixties, there was a

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Speaker 1: culmination of bad things happening in the natural world that

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Speaker 1: had real serious effects on the health of American citizens.

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Speaker 1: And one of those things was we had a real

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Speaker 1: dirty water supply carrying a lot of chemicals de yep, yep,

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Speaker 1: high cancer rates. So the Clean Water Act was kind

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Speaker 1: of birthed out of that inflection point. Then I guess

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Speaker 1: the list can go on. We still don't have a

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Speaker 1: new farm bill. We are seeing a lack of funding,

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Speaker 1: either in the actual physical cutting of the check or

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Speaker 1: the cutting of the budget for again, a lot of

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Speaker 1: these processes protections across our private and public land once

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Speaker 1: we started talking about about the farm bill, So that's

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Speaker 1: kind of where we're at. And then you throw in

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Speaker 1: this huge curveball of a group of people who want

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Speaker 1: to just sell off our public lands, who have really

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Speaker 1: been emboldened here in the last eighteen months. They were

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Speaker 1: there before, but the political wins and the timing seemed

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Speaker 1: right for them to shoot their shot.

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Speaker 2: And these folks increasingly are in positions of influence too.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So one of those things that is knocking on

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Speaker 1: our door here at the beginning of the year is

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Speaker 1: the potential Oh, I guess he's already nominated Steve Pearce

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Speaker 1: for director of the BLM two hundred and forty million

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Speaker 1: acres some I've talked about quite a bit. I feel

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Speaker 1: like the hunting community is uniquely positioned to on behalf

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Speaker 1: of BLM lands because so much awesome, awesome outdoor stuff

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Speaker 1: happens on Bureau of Land Management lands for a number

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Speaker 1: of communities, but I feel like hunters are the ones

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Speaker 1: that are uniquely positioned to speak on behalf of the

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Speaker 1: places that quote unquote don't have anything out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're one of the few that know that that's

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Speaker 2: not the case.

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Speaker 1: Right. So Steve Pierce, he's got, as you would normally see,

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Speaker 1: a deep background in extracted industry, oil and gas. That

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Speaker 1: isn't the concerning thing. The concerning thing is that he

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Speaker 1: has been an outspoken proponent of selling off all of

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Speaker 1: America's public lands. Doesn't think we should have public land.

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Speaker 1: And this cat is potentially shortly going to be running

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Speaker 1: the Bureau of Land Management head overseer two hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty million acres.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna I mean, it sounds like it's it's

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Speaker 2: quite likely he will be approved, right, and if that happens,

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Speaker 2: then it's it's gonna be on probably, like you said,

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Speaker 2: the hunting and fishing community to really to really be

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Speaker 2: loud about making sure that whatever actions he takes don't

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Speaker 2: follow that previous pathway that he's you know, shown with

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Speaker 2: his actions, the kinds of priorities he has to your point. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, this was this was similar to last you know,

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Speaker 2: back in twenty sixteen or seventeen or whenever it was,

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Speaker 2: when William Perry Penley was nominated to head up the BLM.

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Speaker 2: He was the same kind of guy, right, he was

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Speaker 2: he was explicitly publicly against public lands, wanted to transfer

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Speaker 2: them or sell them, and and now here we are again.

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Speaker 2: So the Mark Twain once said, what the history doesn't

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Speaker 2: always repeat itself, but it often rhymes. And I'd say,

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Speaker 2: we're living that right now.

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Speaker 1: In theory, so the WPP he was an acting director

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Speaker 1: and he never went through his confirmation process. In theory,

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Speaker 1: Steve Pearce will go through a confirmation process which is

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Speaker 1: like an excruciating public job interview where our United States

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Speaker 1: Senators have the opportunity to ask this guy, as you

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Speaker 1: would say, in front of God and everybody, what his

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Speaker 1: intentions are, why he's fit or not fit for the position.

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Speaker 1: And there's this possibility of like setting the tone, expectation

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Speaker 1: and future accountability in this process. So even if mister

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Speaker 1: Pierce is not the best guy for the job, like

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Speaker 1: I can't fathom, like looking amongst like the BHA membership,

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Speaker 1: we have lots of people who work in extractive industry

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Speaker 1: oil and gas, and on their weeks off and weekends off,

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Speaker 1: they are hunting and fishing and their conservation minded people

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Speaker 1: because that's where they spend their herd ear and dough

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Speaker 1: is going out and doing that stuff. So I know

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Speaker 1: you can be an excellent steward of the land and

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Speaker 1: to be able to oil and gas and the extractive industries,

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Speaker 1: right like that. That's that's something that is possible. How

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Speaker 1: we can have somebody who's in charge of two hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty million acres of like phenomenal hunting opportunity who

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Speaker 1: doesn't hunt. That just seems like a bad choice to me. So,

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Speaker 1: like you're a well rounded steward of the land.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, so curious what you've heard or what you

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Speaker 2: think about the likelihood of his confirmation. I've heard that

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Speaker 2: it seems like pretty much impossible that it could be stopped.

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Speaker 2: But rumor has it that there's been work being done

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Speaker 2: to try to get some kind of promises or some

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Speaker 2: kind of assurances that transfers and sales will be off

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Speaker 2: the table in exchange for their support of him. This

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Speaker 2: is just things i've heard. Have you heard anything like this?

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Speaker 2: Do you do you have any sense if there's a

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Speaker 2: movement to somehow not confirm him, or if it's if

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Speaker 2: it's going to happen and we have to more so,

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Speaker 2: you know, depend on assurances and or public opposition to

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Speaker 2: keep that kind of thing from going on.

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Speaker 1: I believe that if this confirmation process happens, that those

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Speaker 1: are the types of questions that are going to be

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Speaker 1: asked in order to get those assurances out in public. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's where the accountability piece of the puzzle goes in. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you think about, like what is happening with Mike Lee,

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Speaker 1: for instance, this guy is becoming like a foreign on

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Speaker 1: everybody's side. He's slowing processes down. He's adding amendments at

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Speaker 1: the eleventh hour to things that Republicans and Democrats alike

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Speaker 1: have worked on to get across the line in a

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Speaker 1: timely fashion. And this guy's like throwing a wrench in

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Speaker 1: the gears over his personal agenda. There's only like so

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Speaker 1: much of that that can happen without like pure gridlock,

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Speaker 1: deadlock across the machinations of government. Right. So, from like

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Speaker 1: maybe it's a little altruistic, but from like a pragmatic

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Speaker 1: point of view, that's got to be a real concern

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Speaker 1: with our sitting senators and in Congress people rights, Like

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Speaker 1: we got to be able to get some things done

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Speaker 1: if we keep putting people in positions of power, be

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Speaker 1: it the chair of the Senate Energy and Rent Natural

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Speaker 1: Resources committee that are going to work against the best

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Speaker 1: interest of the American people, and we're constantly called out.

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Speaker 1: Our offices are shut down from phone calls and emails

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Speaker 1: to stop the next stupid thing people are doing. That's

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Speaker 1: not going to work. We're not going to get anything done.

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Speaker 1: So I would hope that, yes, those conversations are happening.

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Speaker 2: And I guess that, you know, is another reason why

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Speaker 2: we do need to continue the calls, the pressure throughout

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Speaker 2: to make sure that that to make sure that pan

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Speaker 2: is hot, you know what I mean, keep the pressure,

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Speaker 2: keep the heat on the seat.

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Speaker 1: To see accountability. Yeah, and I think you know, like

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Speaker 1: one thing I'd like people to do, and I've been

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Speaker 1: encouraging over the last couple of podcasts, is I think

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Speaker 1: you need to write your senator and say, Hey, this

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Speaker 1: confirmation hearing is coming up, I need you to ask

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Speaker 1: this question, right, like, those are your public lands, this

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Speaker 1: big job interviews coming up? What should the boss of

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Speaker 1: those public lands be asked again in front of God

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Speaker 1: and everybody. Yeah, I think that's a great, great a

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Speaker 1: foot to start on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree, that's you know, something you told

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Speaker 2: me earlier this year and I'm sure you I know

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Speaker 2: You've said this many times on the podcast too, but

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Speaker 2: it's it's just the consistency of this kind of message too,

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Speaker 2: you know, checking in every week or a couple of

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Speaker 2: times a month, or you know, not making our letters

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Speaker 2: or our phone calls to our lawmakers a one time thing,

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Speaker 2: but a consistent touch point I think is so important today,

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Speaker 2: maybe more than ever, because we're being flooded with different

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Speaker 2: things all the time, and I think we do have

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Speaker 2: to keep this accountability front top of mind for these

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Speaker 2: folks so that it doesn't become oh, well, on this

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Speaker 2: one issue, I happen to get a million phone calls

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Speaker 2: and emails and it was a big deal. But instead

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Speaker 2: it's every week, all year around. There are thousands of

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Speaker 2: people saying that this set of issues matters to them,

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Speaker 2: over and over and over. That is the level of valume.

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Speaker 2: I think we need these days to break through all

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Speaker 2: the rest of the noise and all the other chaos

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Speaker 2: going on in politics for this set of issues. It

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Speaker 2: seems like that's where things need to be now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you don't have to be into politics, You

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Speaker 1: just got to be into the policy because the policy

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Speaker 1: is going to affect you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so true, there's a lot going on. There's there's

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Speaker 2: so many you know, when you tease this up to me.

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Speaker 2: The other day, I started thinking, you know, trying to

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Speaker 2: think through predictions for the new year, and there's it's

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Speaker 2: a long list of things that might be coming down

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Speaker 2: the pipe, right there's a bunch of concerning possibilities that

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Speaker 2: there's also a bunch of things that might be opportunities.

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Speaker 2: But we're living in a very like the velocity of

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Speaker 2: possible change is really extreme right now. And I don't

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Speaker 2: know if that's dramatically different than it was twenty years ago,

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Speaker 2: but it sure feels like it's a different place now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the pace of things is

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Speaker 1: you know, cranked up to eleven. And you know, the

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Speaker 1: system set up to where we have people who it

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Speaker 1: is their full time job to be out there representing us,

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Speaker 1: but it's up to us to make sure they're doing that.

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Speaker 1: So it can't be hands off. You know. The message

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Speaker 1: that I'm not going to get tired of saying is

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Speaker 1: that everything we have right now is here because we

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Speaker 1: demand that it be here. It's not it's not luck,

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Speaker 1: it's not happenstance like these are deliberate choices to say,

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Speaker 1: we demand that these things remain on the landscape and

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Speaker 1: we have access to them. It's better for us as

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Speaker 1: a nation to have robust wildlife access to them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: healthy public lands access to them. Yeah. Man, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's an inflection point. Mark. Do you have a prediction?

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Speaker 1: Did you come up with something?

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Speaker 2: I've got all sorts of things that are possibilities. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to I don't want to necessarily go so

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Speaker 2: far as to say that I predict something, but I

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Speaker 2: would say these are possibilities that I would throw out there.

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Speaker 2: And there's so much it's easy to get stuck in

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Speaker 2: the h This guy's going to want to solve our lands,

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Speaker 2: this thing, this protection is destroyed, or this you know,

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Speaker 2: piece of important regulation is going to be removed. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's easy to fall into the the drain of doom,

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Speaker 2: the spiral of doom. So I'm going to predict slash

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Speaker 2: throw out a couple of positive possibilities first if if

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Speaker 2: you're game for that, and then we can talk through

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Speaker 2: some other things. But I think there is possibility for

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Speaker 2: some good things to come about this next year, in

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Speaker 2: particular because it's the two hundred and fiftieth birthday of America,

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Speaker 2: and there's going to be all sorts of celebration around that,

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Speaker 2: all sorts of pageanty pageantry. Yeah, that's the right word, pageantry.

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Speaker 2: And there's going to be people in positions within the

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Speaker 2: government who want to have reasons to celebrate and to say, hey,

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Speaker 2: look at the good stuff we're doing. So because of that,

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Speaker 2: we might be able to get some actual good things

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Speaker 2: for wildlife and wild place is done by way of that,

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Speaker 2: you know. So, for example, the funding for the maintenance

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Speaker 2: backlog for National Park Service lands and other public LANs

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Speaker 2: that got approved in the Grand American Outdoors Act, that

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Speaker 2: has got to get or that's coming up for reauthorization

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Speaker 2: this coming year. And so that does seem and it

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Speaker 2: sounds that there's some momentum and possibility for that to

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Speaker 2: get reauthorized and get maybe even increased funding for that

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Speaker 2: maintenance backlog. That's the Legacy Restoration Fund reauthorization, So that

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Speaker 2: I think could happen. That would be a good thing.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of momentum around wildlife crossings. That's something

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Speaker 2: that has bipartisan support. Right when Zinke was the Secretary

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Speaker 2: of Interior during the first Trump administration, he made that

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Speaker 2: secretarial order that supported these programs. Then during the Biden

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Speaker 2: administration there was funding allocated towards the Wildlife Crossings Pilot Project.

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Speaker 2: Now there have been bills, as I know you've talked

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Speaker 2: about in the House and now in the Senate too

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Speaker 2: more recently, looking to continue that funding and increase that

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Speaker 2: funding and those grant programs into the future. So that

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Speaker 2: would get dollars for you know, wildlife crossing projects, or

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Speaker 2: building overpasses, underpasses, things to keep habitat connected, things to

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Speaker 2: keep migration routes viable, and all that stuff seems to

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Speaker 2: have Biparson support. So even today, in the strange space

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Speaker 2: we're in, I think we could get support from a

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Speaker 2: majority Republican Congress on some of that stuff. Possibly that

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Speaker 2: could be really good. You know, this one's a little

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Speaker 2: bit harder, but I do think that there's some possibility.

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Speaker 2: I think that the Recovering America's Wildlife Act might get

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Speaker 2: reintroduced this year and have a little bit of momentum

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Speaker 2: behind it. That's something that would help get dollars to

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Speaker 2: our state wildlife agencies to help them deal with you know,

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Speaker 2: especially endangered and threatened species and developing plan and executing

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Speaker 2: on plans to keep those critters off the Endangered Species list.

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Speaker 2: So we know that the Endangered Species Act is sometimes

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Speaker 2: controversial for the right side of the aisle, there's lots

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Speaker 2: of ways and ideas for reforming it. I think the

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Speaker 2: Recovering America's Wildlife Act is a great way to address

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Speaker 2: you know, for people who have an issue with the ESA,

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Speaker 2: the Recovering America's Wildlife Act is a great way to

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Speaker 2: address some of those concerns by say, hey, let's not

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Speaker 2: put other new species on the ESA. Let's not create

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Speaker 2: all the headaches that the EASA does. Let's deal with

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Speaker 2: the problem way before we get to that point, by

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Speaker 2: actually having some smart ways to fund these programs at

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Speaker 2: the state level, at the local level, to deal with

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Speaker 2: those problems so that the federal government doesn't doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to do that. So that could be a really big thing.

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Speaker 2: And if that gets reintroduced, like I'm hearing it might,

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Speaker 2: that could be a good thing. So those are you know,

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Speaker 2: three four positives that I hope I think could come

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Speaker 2: about in the next year.

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Speaker 4: And the I almost wish the spin wasn't endangered species oriented, right,

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Speaker 4: It's like none of these things exist in a vacuum

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Speaker 4: unless you're talking about like the desert pupfish that.

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Speaker 1: Lives in life right event out there, and it's like

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Speaker 1: god knows why it's there, but it is. But by

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Speaker 1: and large, state by state, something that's going to benefit

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Speaker 1: an endangered species is going to benefit all the species

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Speaker 1: around it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And then also it you know, if the state

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Speaker 2: has to use their limited funds on that stuff, that

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Speaker 2: means those are funds not used on mule deer restoration

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Speaker 2: or habitat work or something else. Right, if instead we

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Speaker 2: had this significant additional funding that did help with those

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Speaker 2: bigger habitat issues and everything that all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: that freeze up resources for the critters that we are,

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Speaker 2: you know, more directly excited about. So so yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: it's really just a Good for All Wildlife Act.

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Speaker 1: Yep, yep, exactly. Yeah, I mean good habitat right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's that's the name of the game. So those are

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Speaker 2: some of the those are some of the positive things

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Speaker 2: I think are possible the coming year. You want me

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Speaker 2: to throw out a couple of my predictions for some

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Speaker 2: some more defensive things we need to be aware of. Sure, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'll just keep rolling.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think you know, it's it, Uh, the

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Speaker 1: things that aren't like rosy predictions. I think you know.

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Speaker 1: My response is always like, but the community is going

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Speaker 1: to unify around those things and that will be a positive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think, you know, looking back on twenty five,

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Speaker 2: everybody looks at what happened around the one big beautiful

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Speaker 2: bill and the public land sale opposition as this huge

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Speaker 2: shining light of positivity, and like, hey, we rallied, we

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Speaker 2: came together, we unified, from hunt to tree hugger, we

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Speaker 2: all stood up. So everyone that I've talked to is like, hey,

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Speaker 2: how do we bottle that up and do that again

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Speaker 2: on the next big thing? So that gives me hope.

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Speaker 2: It shows that we can do it. It shows that

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Speaker 2: that is possible. It shows that it can make a difference.

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Speaker 2: But it also shows you know, you know, if we

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Speaker 2: look at that bill and just like the parts of

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Speaker 2: it that are relevant to honey and fishing, we stopped

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Speaker 2: the public land sale, a couple other of the other

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Speaker 2: bad things were pulled out, but then you know, there

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Speaker 2: were some things that are concerning that did slip through.

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Speaker 2: We can't stop it all, so there's work to be done,

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Speaker 2: for sure. So some of those things keep an eye

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Speaker 2: out four in twenty six would be a couple of

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Speaker 2: those pieces that were in the One Big Beautiful Bill

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Speaker 2: at one point but got pulled, such as the Ambler Road,

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Speaker 2: which you know basically is getting more and more of

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Speaker 2: the roadblocks removed to actually happen, all right. Secretary of

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Speaker 2: Interior Burgham said that, you know, they might even be

433
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 2: breaking ground early in twenty twenty six to actually build

434
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 2: the thing, but I think there's probably going to be

435
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: either legal challenges or other kind of process oriented speed

436
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 2: bumps that might lead to that getting stalled out. And

437
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: I think that's one thing that if we care about,

438
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 2: you know, if we as hunters and anglers care about

439
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: the future of the Brooks Range and kind of this

440
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: pinnacle of wildness in America, that's that's one worth really

441
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: continuing to advocate for, continuing to stand up for, continuing

442
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: to speak for. You know, when I think of the

443
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 2: like the the the imagination of the American hunter and angler,

444
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: and like the peak of what that dream is, it's

445
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: it's the Brooks Range. It's to ask an experience that

446
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 2: you know, maybe it's a once in a lifetime extremely

447
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: special thing to do that most of us don't get

448
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: to do very often, but it's something that is so

449
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: powerful just knowing it's still there, that we have someplace

450
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 2: like that, and so what the Ambler Road could do

451
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: to that dream is pretty serious and concerning. And so

452
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: that's something that I think we as a community are

453
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 2: going to have to stay up on and maintain that

454
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: point of contact on because that's that's a really big

455
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 2: one that has a lot of momentum. The boundary waters right,

456
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 2: the Twin Metals mind, we've been talking about for years

457
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: and years and years, and as I know your listeners

458
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 2: already know that has been signaled from the administration that

459
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: they want to get those leases opened again and they

460
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: want to open things up for that to move forward.

461
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: There was a tweet or something this summer from the

462
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 2: Secretary of Agriculture saying that they want to move forward

463
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: on that, but we have still not got and the

464
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: official nothing has officially been done yet, so we don't

465
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: know how that's going to be done or how they're

466
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: going to, you know, try to make that happen. So

467
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: that's likely going to come out in twenty twenty six,

468
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: you know, from what I understand, it sounds like and

469
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: it seems like they are trying to make sure that

470
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: all of their te's are crossed and all their eyes

471
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: are dotted in whatever way they plan to go about

472
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: this so that it can actually happen. They're doing it smart.

473
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: And so for those of us who would rather that

474
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: mind not be placed right on the edge of the

475
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: boundery waters in the very water logged ecosystem where water

476
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: pollution would be really detrimental, that's something we've got to

477
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: pay attention to. I think that's probably going to come

478
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 2: to a head this coming year. That's a big one.

479
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: I can wild, right, yes, like, and you know, we'll

480
00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: see what we ultimately can make happen on the public

481
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: lands rule, where the idea there is to bring up

482
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: the ecosystem services that lands naturally provide to an on

483
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: par ish level. Yeah, with the extractive benefits will call

484
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: them that those lands provide.

485
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: YEP.

486
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: One of the things is just like blatantly obvious to me, right, Like,

487
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a guy who got it. I think

488
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: a D minus and macroeconomics, University of Montana during my

489
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: short stint, there is yet supply and demand the amount

490
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,959
Speaker 1: of like truly wild places that we have. That acreage

491
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: is going down every single year. The value therefore is

492
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: going up right at an exponential rate. So at what

493
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: point we were just talking about capital W wilderness, right

494
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: and WSAs and how wilderness study areas. Which part of

495
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: the idea of having a wilderness study area is that

496
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: is an area we're going to put on hold to

497
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: maybe become a capital W wilderness at some point. It's

498
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: kind of a middle ground for a lot of things, really,

499
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: the WSA. But since a lot of those things were

500
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: created in the sixties, there is a significant amount of

501
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: that acreage all across the board that no longer fits

502
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: the definition of capital W wilderness. Like the characteristics unfortunately

503
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: just aren't there anymore. We waited too long, So like

504
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: there's real examples of this stuff slipping away before our eyes. Yeah,

505
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: but therefore the remaining acreage as that do fit that

506
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: capital W are much more valuable.

507
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, it's not a renewable resource. Once it's gone,

508
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: it's gone. And uh, if we keep it around, though,

509
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: the returns are renewable and perpetual, both you know, the

510
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: ecosystem services like you talked about, and then the economies

511
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: that live you know by way of those landscapes. Uh,

512
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: every year, it seems like we're getting more and more

513
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: data that's showing this very tangible economic impact to rural communities,

514
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 2: to the nation as a whole, to you know, to

515
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: to the the tax dollars coming back to the government,

516
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: even through recreation economies and public land support economies. It's

517
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: it's no joke, it's it's really serious dollars when you

518
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: look at that. So there's there's a whole lot of

519
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: ways that these landscapes are really important financially, really important.

520
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: Of course we all know from like a lifestyle approach,

521
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: of course, So there's a there's a really really strong

522
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: argument to keeping these things around and being smart about

523
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: how we're going to do development, be smart about how

524
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: we're going to use them, and remembering to your point,

525
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: they're not making any more of it.

526
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I feel like if your idea is that

527
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: America is going to last and thrive in perpetuity, then

528
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: you do keep these things in mind. It's like, we

529
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: got a great nation. If we're going to plan on

530
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: having a great nation in the future, we've got to

531
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: look at these foundational bedrocks of what makes this nation great.

532
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: And like bare minimum, you need clean water and clean

533
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: air to have a healthy population, right, you need soil

534
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: health that creates food to have a healthy population. I

535
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 1: think there's a huge argument that if you want to

536
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: be serious about national defense, we better understand and take

537
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: stock of our ability to create clean water, clean air,

538
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: and grill food.

539
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, maybe my biggest prediction than cal

540
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: as we're talking through this, the thing that I'm seeing

541
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 2: and that I'm hoping for and I'm starting to really

542
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: see percolate up from the ground, is this across the

543
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: board realization of what you are saying there and what

544
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 2: we've been talking here, which is that this stuff is

545
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 2: foundational to who we are as Americans. This stuff really

546
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: matters to our daily lives. This stuff matters to our

547
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: nation's economy, It matters to our defense, It matters to

548
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: our sense of self. And that is not a Democrat thing,

549
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: that is not a Republican thing. That's just an American thing.

550
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: And so I do feel like this summer we started

551
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: seeing and I think it's continuing now, this realization that

552
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: we can stand with our fellow Americans, whether they live

553
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: in New York City or New Hampshire or Nevada, and say, hey,

554
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: we care about this stuff for these reasons, and even

555
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: if I voted for you, I am not on board

556
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: with this thing. Or maybe I didn't vote for you,

557
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: and I support you on this other thing, but not

558
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: this one. And I think this past summer showed a

559
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 2: lot of people that yes, we still have some influence

560
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: on these things. Yes we can still be heard, and

561
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: I do think in twenty twenty six that will continue.

562
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 2: I think we're going to see more of this bipartisan

563
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: movement to stand up for these things that matter. I

564
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 2: think there is more support on both sides of the aisle,

565
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 2: at least in the general public, to try to make

566
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 2: this stuff bipartisan again and to try to stand up

567
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: for these things that matter to you, whether you are

568
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 2: a hunter or a tree hugger, an angler, or a birdwatcher.

569
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: I think that trend is going to continue. I think

570
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: we're going to continue to find our footing and our voices,

571
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: and I think that next year and the year after

572
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: that and the year after that, our politicians are going

573
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: to start getting the message little by little because we're

574
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: enforcement too.

575
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: There you have. Twenty twenty six is gonna be a

576
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: great year, kick great year, so long as you demand it. Okay,

577
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: So there you have it. Twenty twenty six is going

578
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: to be a great year full of challenges, but each

579
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: of those challenges is going to bring with it great opportunity.

580
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: I also, like, I do feel very optimistic, right, Like,

581
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: we know that these places are incredibly valuable that they are,

582
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: Like I think for the rank and file American they

583
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: just can't imagine a life without public lands, public wildlife,

584
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: access to those things. The challenge is getting those people

585
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: to speak up and weigh in and be involved. So, like,

586
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: looking back to that reconciliation fight is something that we're

587
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: going to be constantly doing because it was it shouldn't

588
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: be like understated or swept under the rug. It was

589
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: a huge pivotal moment and you're right, it went from

590
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: across all parts of the spectrum. And the long term

591
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: goal here, the big win is making these things truly nonpartisan,

592
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: like it is. It is an area in which we're

593
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: truly working on behalf of the interests of the American

594
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: people in those things that we already talked about, clean water,

595
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: clean air, abundant wildlife, great soil, health, the things that

596
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 1: make people on this continent healthy and happy.

597
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think there's there are debates to be

598
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: had on how that plays out on the ground, right,

599
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with us

600
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: having different opinions on how to do these things, how

601
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: to execute, how to keep these things around, how to

602
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: make sure these places and these animals and these opportunities flourish.

603
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: But let's make sure we're all in the arena trying

604
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: to make those angles happen. If we want to take

605
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: different approaches, fine, let's debate, let's discuss, let's work on that,

606
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 2: but let's just make sure we're pointing in the right direction,

607
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: which is you know, I think what we're talking about here,

608
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: So hopefully that happens.

609
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: And so like, what is your plan of attack then

610
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: for the for the new year, Like, how are you

611
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: going to be involved? It's great quest strategy.

612
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: Well, you know, with you moving over to BHA, that

613
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 2: is opening some space for me to step in and

614
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: help continue your work at Mediator on the conservation side.

615
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 2: So I think it's I think I'm okay to say

616
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 2: that I will be doing more on this front within

617
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: the Mediator ecosystem. That's it's not you know, we're still

618
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: figuring out exactly what that looks like, but I'm I'm

619
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: certainly personal and meet EAT organizationally is going to continue

620
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 2: to find opportunities to step up and lead on this

621
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 2: front because I think any kind of movement towards making

622
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: conservation and the protection of public lands and the you know,

623
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 2: working towards a better future for fish and wildlife, all

624
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: these things, all of that takes a lot of different

625
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: types of people and organizations and groups to make any

626
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 2: of that come to life, right, It takes the individual,

627
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: but then it also takes the collective and to get

628
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 2: collective effort to get what we saw this past summer,

629
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 2: you have to have leadership and you have to have scale.

630
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: And I think that's where an organization like meetat or

631
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 2: that's where nonprofits like backcountry Hunters and Anglers, I think

632
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: that's where those types of groups can really step up

633
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: and help kind of prime the prime the situation for

634
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 2: all the individuals to step in and do that kind

635
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: of stuff. So we're going to continue, of course, to

636
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: support what you're doing with with the podcast. We're going

637
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 2: to continue to build more content. I think I think

638
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 2: one of the ideas is to continue to kind of

639
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: expand our expand the terrain of where and how we

640
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 2: talk about this kind of stuff. I've always loved with

641
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 2: your videos, Calee, how how you've really worked to explore

642
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 2: these kinds of topics but doing it in in a

643
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 2: fun and interesting way. So how do we how do

644
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: we build off of that? How do we do more

645
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: like that? How do we as a company as mediator

646
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: this community of people, how do we you know, educate

647
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: the honey and fishing audience about what's going on and

648
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: why it's relevant. But then also how do we continue

649
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: to actually like activate, So again continuing and building off

650
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: of what you've done, is how do we how do

651
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: we tackle something like the Ambler road issue in a big,

652
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,479
Speaker 2: concerted way. How do we say, Hey, this is something

653
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 2: that really matters to our community, and we're going to

654
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 2: speak out about it and we're going to do something,

655
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: whether it's Ambler or the boundary waters or the public

656
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 2: land sale or you know, supporting something like the wildlife

657
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 2: crossings bills or anything like that. I'm personally trying to

658
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: find ways to figure out, like, how do I help

659
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: on an individual level by doing all the things we've

660
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 2: talked about, making the phone calls, chatting and developing relationships.

661
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: Of course, sending the email, sign the petitions, all that,

662
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: But then so how do I work as an individual

663
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: and then how do I help kind of lift up

664
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: organizations or groups that can build that collective Because I think,

665
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: you know, this is something I'm actually writing about right now.

666
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: Cal in this book I'm trying to wrap up, and

667
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: I've spent a lot of time thinking through, you know,

668
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 2: how do you actually make a difference on any of

669
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: this stuff. There's like so many different individual issues, so

670
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: many different individual things that could impact hunting or fishing

671
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 2: or specifically salmon or mountain lions or trout or mule deer,

672
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: whatever your thing is. Right, There's there's so many different

673
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: specific challenges and opportunities. But what's what's like the framework

674
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: we need to tackle any one of these? And I

675
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: was I was on a run this morning, and I'm

676
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: actually going to be like, this will be this is

677
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: one of the big ideas that I'm framing the book around.

678
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: But I think what I've realized is that rather than

679
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 2: trying to figure out the specific like patch to fix

680
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: the hole in the boat, we just need to get

681
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 2: better at training boat builders who can tackle whatever seas

682
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: are coming right because there's going to be some new

683
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: challenge a year from now. Like we're trying to make

684
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 2: predictions right now, but who knows what it will be

685
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 2: in two years or five years or ten years. The

686
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 2: seas might be rough or they might be easy. We

687
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: need to know how to build a boat that can

688
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 2: navigate whatever the situation might be. And I think to

689
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: continue this kind of metaphor that I'm you know, figuring

690
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: out for myself as I speak this out, but I

691
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: think that the key to being a boat builder, of

692
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 2: a conservation boat builder in this case, is to learn

693
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: how to operate on that individual level and the collective

694
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 2: level and what does that mean? And so that's what

695
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out. I think that's what we

696
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 2: as hunters and anglers are figuring out, is like what

697
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: can we do on a day to day basis in

698
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: our daily lives, and then what can we do to

699
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: get lots of people to do something so that we

700
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 2: can break through the noise as we were talking about earlier,

701
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 2: so that we can actually have heat on these decision

702
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: makers so they can recognize what we're talking about matters

703
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 2: that what we talk about as a political implication for

704
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: them and that this stuff can be done. So that's

705
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 2: a long and winding explanation of how I'm thinking about

706
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 2: this right now, what it's actually going to look like

707
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: on the ground over the next year that I'm still

708
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: figuring out. But I'm excited. I'm excited to be able

709
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: to do this kind of stuff, to think about these

710
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: types of things because it's it's what you and I love.

711
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 2: It's what the listeners of this podcast love. We love

712
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: these outdoor places, we love these hunts and fishing trips

713
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: and public lands and wildlife. It's it's the stuff that

714
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 2: brings so much joy to our lives, and so it

715
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 2: gets me out of bed in the morning to think

716
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: that maybe I can hopefully make some small positive difference

717
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: and keeping all that around, that's what I'm thinking about.

718
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: To me, it's like the simplest way to accomplish what

719
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: you're talking about, right is like it's just another like extension,

720
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: although it can't be thought of as an extension of

721
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:54,720
Speaker 1: but it's part of the responsible use package. You can't

722
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,919
Speaker 1: go out and storytell at this point in the game

723
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: and expose plays to media without also embedding into that

724
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: story like a responsible use PSA in there, right, like

725
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: we can love places to death, and I think that

726
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: is something that people can wrap their heads around. Is

727
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: like whether you're talking about like I think of where

728
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 1: the oil and gas industry started versus where it is

729
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: right now. The size of the footprint, the remediation techniques,

730
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: the environmental impact is much less than it has ever

731
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: been when it is done responsibly, like that has its

732
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: own responsible use practice. And all of these outdoor cultures,

733
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: when you break them into segments, they all have their

734
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: responsible u uh, you know, ethos or or rules to

735
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: follow right where it's recreational shooting on public land, right

736
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: like pick up your brass, go pick up your targets,

737
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: and pick up other people's brass and targets if you

738
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: have to. But once we get that responsible use ethos

739
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: like embedded into all of these communities as just it's

740
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: part and parcel of what you do, then like we were,

741
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: we're winning this fight. Like then it's an upfront to

742
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: all people. At the same time, when somebody steps out

743
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: of that responsible use line of thinking.

744
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's almost like a shift in in

745
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 2: the mindset that we bring to I think sometimes I'll

746
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 2: just speak to my you know, my own personal life.

747
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 2: I think for a while I came to hunting and

748
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 2: fishing from like a consumer mindset. I came to it like,

749
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 2: I want to get this out of it. I want

750
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 2: to go out there. I want to kill a deer.

751
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 2: I want to go out there and catch a bunch

752
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 2: of fish. I want to go out out there and

753
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 2: fill my freezer. I want I have a lot of fun.

754
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: And it was just like, how do I get that?

755
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: I want to get get, take, take, take. And then

756
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 2: at some point that mindset and relationship shifted to more

757
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: of an ownership mindset, to where I recognized that if

758
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: I want to enjoy this asset, I guess we'll call

759
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: it this thing that I want to have some kind

760
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 2: of ownership stake in that that also comes with the

761
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: responsibility to use it responsibly, to steward it, to make

762
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: sure that I'm putting back in more than I take out.

763
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 2: And I think that is something that has been talked

764
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 2: about for decades by people, but now it is more

765
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 2: important than ever, I think because of you know what

766
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier, the fact that these open space and

767
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 2: wildlife and public lands, all of these things are being

768
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 2: pressured from so many different directions to a greater degree

769
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: than ever before. There's so many different pressures that, just

770
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: like modern life, are placing on these wild things that

771
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: we can't just talk about that anymore. It actually has

772
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: to play out in real life for any of the

773
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,439
Speaker 2: stuff to have a chance to be around in twenty

774
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: thirty forty years. And so yeah, I think that the

775
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 2: days of buying a hunting license and then going out

776
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 2: there and take take take, I don't think that's going

777
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 2: to be viable for much longer. I think it's really

778
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 2: going to require, you know, having this ownership stake in

779
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 2: it and recognizing, hey man, I got to I got

780
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 2: to keep this thing around. I've got to put something

781
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 2: into it too. And that's going to look different for everybody,

782
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: and it's gonna happen at different times for everybody. But

783
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 2: I do think that that is a growing awareness within

784
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: our community, and not just our committity. I also think

785
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 2: like some folks in the general outdoor recreation space are

786
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,879
Speaker 2: more and more picking up on that too. I'm seeing

787
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 2: and hearing more folks in that world realizing like, oh

788
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 2: you know what, Yeah, when I go slashing down a

789
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 2: track when on my mountain bike, that does make an impact.

790
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 2: I am using these places. This guy, you know, climbing

791
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 2: up some rock face. They're thinking about and realizing, oh yeah, okay,

792
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 2: we are making an impact and we've got to do

793
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 2: something to keep this stuff around. And so I do

794
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 2: think that slowly but surely, we're getting closer to that

795
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: critical mass where there's a lot of people that have

796
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: a personal connection with these places and these resources. We're

797
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 2: all slowly realizing, Okay, we need to do something to

798
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 2: make sure these places are around. And now we are

799
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 2: seeing firsthand every day now illustrations of how important it

800
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 2: is to start actually taking that action, because if you don't,

801
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 2: stuff like the summer's public land sale proposition or other

802
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 2: things like it, that stuff could become reality.

803
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. Yeah. It's like you don't understand how important

804
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 1: food is until you're out of it, right, Like that

805
00:50:54,760 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: you're getting forced to confront scarcity makes people think different ways, right,

806
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: And like Montana, we just took an action to reduce

807
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: non resident deer tags, yeah, which is really the first

808
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: reduction that I've seen in a long time. And to me,

809
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: like that stuff doesn't happen until people get confronted with

810
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 1: a scarcity, right, Rather, whether it's scarcity in the ability

811
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: to go someplace and be alone, or going, holy shit,

812
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: where did all the bucks go?

813
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, when it becomes real in your own backyard

814
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: or in your own life, that changes things. Yep, no doubt.

815
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's I don't think that is

816
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 2: going to be an isolated realization to Montana. There's going

817
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 2: to be. I think people have already been seeing and

818
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 2: feeling that in many different ways, and it's only going

819
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: to accelerate. It's only going to accelerate. Whether it be

820
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 2: like me this past summer realizing like man, I guess

821
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 2: it was two summers ago when it really hit me,

822
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 2: but all the places I wanted to go fly fishing

823
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: for trout couldn't fish. They were all closed because the

824
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: water was so hot, the water was so low, it

825
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 2: was dangerous for trout. I realized that, wow, is this

826
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: my new normal? That all July and August you can't

827
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 2: go fish eighty percent of the places you want because

828
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 2: it's so hot, or whether it be deer not being

829
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: where they used to be, or whether it be I mean,

830
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 2: there's just so many different ways this might manifest in

831
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: somebody's life, depending on what you do and what you

832
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 2: love and how you where you go. But we're starting

833
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: to see that, you know, there's the nothing's guaranteed if

834
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: we're not taking care of it. And I think the.

835
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: You know, the storytelling is important and it's got to

836
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: continue because we have to present these things as backyard issues. Right,

837
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: Like open space has more demands on it now than

838
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: ever before. And that's both open space on the public

839
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: land side of the fence and on the private land

840
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: side of the fence. Yeah, there's folks chomping at the

841
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: bit to break this stuff up. And we know for

842
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: healthy landscapes, like those ecosystem services that we talked about,

843
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,479
Speaker 1: like particularly out here in the last like it takes

844
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: a lot of land to matriculate clean water or grow

845
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: that calcaffpair, let alone your mule deer.

846
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 2: Right.

847
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't think as Americans we're going to

848
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: like wrap our heads around a European style mindset anytime

849
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: soon where we restrict who can purchase land where and

850
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,800
Speaker 1: what they can do with it in a lot of

851
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: ways we already talked about, like the rollbacks on waters

852
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: of the United States, which can do some of that.

853
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: So like, well, this particular type of wetland is so

854
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: important you can't touch it, or in order to change

855
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: that in a certain way, you got to go through

856
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: like a painstaking process. So it's going to be up

857
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: to like the consumer to make smarter decisions, like like

858
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 1: what are our demands going to be? Because it's going

859
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: to have a repercussions.

860
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 2: It's just kind of listening to us talk through this stuff.

861
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: On one hand, it can sound very discouraging or not

862
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 2: fun to think through all these things and all of

863
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 2: these responsibilities and we need to do this, and we

864
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 2: need to do that, and we have to step up.

865
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 2: This kind of sounds like being twelve again and stuck

866
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 2: listening to my dad preached to me about all that.

867
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 2: But I do want to make the point that the

868
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 2: more I get involved in this kind of stuff, especially

869
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: with other people, the more fun opportunities I get to

870
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 2: engage with people who care about the same things, Like

871
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,240
Speaker 2: this does not have to be like a fun sucking

872
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 2: set of activities to care about and to take action on. Right,

873
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,800
Speaker 2: I think this stuff can actually bring people together and

874
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 2: be fun to engage on, and can be energizing to

875
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: engage on. You know, go into rallies like I went

876
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 2: to this awesome rally, this spring in Minnesota to stand

877
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 2: up for the boundary waters and got to be around

878
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 2: all of these other people that I absolutely love hunting

879
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: and fishing and wildlife and wild places, and it just

880
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: filled you up. It got you excited, made new friends.

881
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 2: The same thing this summer around the public land sale.

882
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: You know, there are all these different rallies and events

883
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 2: and people getting out and talking about this stuff, and

884
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 2: it brings folks together. And so I think this can

885
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 2: be a good thing. This can be a point of

886
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: you know, rallying our community to continue to not just

887
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 2: do the work, but to also enjoy it along the

888
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 2: way and enjoy it together. And that's pretty darn good that.

889
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: That's that's good stuff. So this isn't this isn't necessarily,

890
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 2: oh man, the rest of our lives, hunters and anglers

891
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 2: is going to be this dull, depressing slog to try

892
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 2: to protect these last places. I would look at it

893
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 2: rather as like, hey, this is a great opportunity to

894
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 2: come together, have a good time, rally our efforts to

895
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: enjoy these places and protect them, enjoy these animals and

896
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 2: conserve them. And that's good news. That's that's exciting news.

897
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: It is, and I think you know, it brings up

898
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 1: that good point of the you got to kind of

899
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:58,319
Speaker 1: push back on like this exclusive use idea where it's like, well,

900
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: this group gets this, and this group gets this, and

901
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: this group gets this. There's gonna be like some concessions

902
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: that have to be made in only the fact that

903
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: you have to share the landscape with other people. But

904
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: that the center of the of the Venn diagram, right,

905
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: It's like if people appreciate public lands and access to them,

906
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: they're an ally.

907
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's hard sometimes, right, Compromise isn't always easy. Compromise

908
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 2: can be a painful process to go through, you know,

909
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 2: working with people who are different than you or care

910
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: about things that are a little bit different than you.

911
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 2: That's not always easy. But yeah, like let's be practical

912
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 2: and realize that we need a big coalition. We we

913
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 2: have a lot more in common with most folks that

914
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 2: we don't. So to your point, we're going to have

915
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: to stand together on stuff and say, hey, there's ten

916
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 2: percent that maybe we don't see eyed eye on and

917
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: it's not worth canceling each other because of that. It's

918
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: not worth ignoring each other because because of that, it's

919
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: not worth calling each other enemies because of that. How about, Hey,

920
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 2: I don't agree with you on this part, but on

921
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 2: the other seventy or sixty or ninety percent that we

922
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: do agree on, let's get that good stuff done. We

923
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 2: can you know, talk about the rest over beers later

924
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 2: and not agree. But the rest.

925
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: Oh.

926
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

927
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: I work with people all the time who do not

928
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 1: like my my stance on killing wolves, which is I'm

929
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: totally fine with it. They don't like it to the

930
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: point where I have to like say, like, you know,

931
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: I've never actually shot one. I'm just open to the

932
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: fact that it's totally fine and will not have the

933
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: type of effect on the landscape that you think it will.

934
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, these purity tests, you know, or like you have

935
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: to be one hundred percent with me or you are

936
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 2: all the way against me. Like that's just not practical anymore.

937
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 2: That's not going to work.

938
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 1: Was also just not how the world.

939
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 2: Works exactly exactly.

940
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: It never has, never will there go. Yeah. The the

941
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: litmus test that I think people need to be aware of,

942
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: right is like, if that politician says, well, you have

943
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: to choose between your guns and public lands, that person

944
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: is lying to you. Yeah, or they're just so lazy

945
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: that they don't want to work hard enough to make

946
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: it happen.

947
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 2: I wish here, here's this. This might be derailing us

948
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 2: a little bit, kel, but I'm just going to toss

949
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: out this thing that I wish we could somehow do,

950
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 2: which I don't know what it would take, but if

951
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 2: somehow we could some way get to the point. And

952
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 2: it's probably not this next election or even the next one,

953
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 2: but if someday, and we've had little moments of this,

954
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: but if someday we could be at a position where this,

955
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 2: these public land issues or wildlife issues or whatever it

956
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 2: might be, was important enough that you had Republicans in

957
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: primaries and Demmocrats in primaries that were fighting to be

958
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 2: on the right side of it because they needed the

959
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 2: votes of all of these folks, hunters and anglers and

960
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 2: mountain bikers and climbers and hikers and backpackers and bird

961
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 2: watchers of all types. We all wanted this thing, and

962
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 2: so they were all saying, Okay, how do I make

963
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 2: sure that you know, Yeah, I'm a Republican and I'm

964
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 2: good on public lands. I'm a Democrat. I'd better be

965
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: good on public lands across the board. If we could

966
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 2: somehow get to the point that this became. I don't

967
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 2: want to choose, like you said, I don't want to

968
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 2: have to be like, well, I have to have my

969
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 2: guns or my public lands or my guns and good

970
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 2: wildlife policy or hunting opportunities. You know, these things should

971
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: not be split by an arbitrary partisan the line. It

972
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be. It wasn't always that way. So

973
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 2: I think we can shift it, We can get it back.

974
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: But it does it will take, you know, it'll take

975
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 2: the stuff we're talking about, and it'll take time.

976
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, willingness to have the conversation. Like what

977
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: makes me a real optimist in this space is all

978
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: the time I spend traveling around and meeting people, and

979
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm doing the same things that everybody else is out

980
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: there doing, right, I'm like, I'm not seeking exclusive use

981
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: of anything, and I'm going into the roadside diners and

982
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 1: truck stops and bars and you know, and chatting it

983
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: up with folks, and like, it is so rare to

984
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 1: run into somebody that is an absolutist and it's like

985
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: it's all this way and it can't be this other way.

986
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:39,720
Speaker 1: I don't want to say it never happens but it

987
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: is the exception and not the rule. But if you

988
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: pay attention to the campaign cycles and what the mainstream

989
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 1: media shortens down into the headline, it's like, that's what

990
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: America only is, right, is people who don't get along,

991
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: And it's just like, it is not what I see.

992
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: It is not my reality, is not what I interact with.

993
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but to your point, like that is the it's

994
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 2: the reality that we receive because of not just the

995
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 2: mainstream media, but also just like our new algorithm fed media.

996
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 2: That's so much of everything we consume comes from right,

997
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 2: So we are slowly but surely being fed increasingly sensationalized,

998
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 2: increasingly concentrated, increasingly. Now we don't even know what's real

999
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 2: with AI. So you've got all of these forces that

1000
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 2: are making it easier and easier to be polarized.

1001
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,760
Speaker 1: Aside from the water consumption of AI data centers, we

1002
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:43,439
Speaker 1: know that's real.

1003
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is real. Let's talk. There's so much to

1004
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 2: talk about on all those fronts. So yeah, there's there's challenges,

1005
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 2: no doubt.

1006
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I mean, I think going forward into twenty

1007
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: twenty six, the big ass here is like keep an

1008
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: open mind, be willing to have the conversation and go

1009
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: into those conversations confidently knowing that the stuff that you're

1010
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: going to get along with on is probably the bulk

1011
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: of things. And the end goal, right is public lands, waters, wildlife,

1012
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: access to those things, and I would say like equitable

1013
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: access to those things as well. So you know, one

1014
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: of the things that the country was founded on was

1015
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: the fact that we weren't reserving certain things for people

1016
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: of a certain economic status.

1017
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, that's the beauty of love what we

1018
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 2: do have, but got a fight to keep it darn right.

1019
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: All right, Mark, I'm gonna cut you loose. Thank you

1020
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: so much for coming on today. You're welcome, and thank

1021
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: you to this lovely audience for listening to these rants

1022
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,560
Speaker 1: and ramblings. At minimum gave you something to think about

1023
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: while you're cruising down the road. Right in a S

1024
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: case C A L. That's Ascal at the meeteater dot

1025
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: com and track Mark Kenyon down at Wired to Hunt.

1026
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 2: You got it, darn ratt.

1027
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: We'll be seeing a lot more of you in the

1028
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: in the new year, Excited for the new challenges that

1029
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: you're taking on on the meat eater front, and also

1030
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 1: the challenges that you took on being one of my

1031
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: bosses as a as a board member of Backcountry Hunters

1032
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: and English.

1033
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 2: That's exciting too. I'm looking forward to bossing you around.

1034
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, darn right, darn right, all right, Thanks A Buch