WEBVTT - “Security Issues” Cited As Reason University Drops Commencement Speaker Who Criticized Charlie Kirk 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:02.840 Hey, folks. 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:06.400 It is Saturday, April eighteenth, and Utah Valley University, the 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.520 site of the death of Charlie kirk Well. They were 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:13.760 set to have their commencement this month, but they just 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:19.279 dropped plans for a commencement speaker. And the reasons are 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.239 well a bit unclear. And with that, welcome to this 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:25.200 episode of Amy and TJ Rohlds. I say unclear. It's 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.400 clear to some, not so much to other. I guess 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.720 what's the real answer as to why Utah Valley University. 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:34.159 And this would have been a big one ropes, the 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.839 first commencement since that assassination on their campus. But now 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:39.440 they said, nope, we're not gonna have a speaker. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.720 Yes, because the speaker that they chose, her name might 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:43.919 not be a household one. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:45.320 Her name is Susan McMahon. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.959 She's commonly referred to as America's government teacher, but she's 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:51.640 a New York Times bestselling author. 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:53.040 She's a podcaster. 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.120 All of that sounds great and inspirational, and she talks 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.560 about political unity. She's non den off, she doesn't take side. 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.600 She's doesn't say she's a Republican or a Democrat. Perfect 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.160 right to unite this group, the student body graduating from 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.200 a university that was put on the map for all 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:09.120 the wrong reasons. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:15.880 Well, unfortunately, she made a statement. 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.440 On Facebook the day of Charlie Kirk's assassination, but then 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.840 she went on two days later to put some posts 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.679 out on social media that ruffled the feathers and really 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:30.080 angered a lot of folks on campus who were Charlie 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:30.720 Kirk fans. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:33.440 Okay, so let me you've done a deeper dive on 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.160 this story than I have, so I have a few 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.560 questions that other people might have as well. First of all, 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.440 did it cause an uproar at the time, were people 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.160 attacking her at the time of his death, or these 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.080 are things now that people went back and checked her 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:47.400 out and are discovering now. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.480 It appears that people went back and took a look 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:53.640 at who this woman was once she was announced at 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.080 the end of last month as the commencement speaker. So 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.560 this is a fairly new announcement. Actually, I feel like 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.760 that's kind of a short period of time, and maybe 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:08.200 they knew what was perhaps on her resume, so to speak, 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.119 and what might be upsetting to some folks. 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:11.600 I don't know why they chose her. 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.200 Clearly, you would think they would have vetted her her 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.200 social media posts at this point. We know that's a 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.280 part of vetting anyone to speak publicly or be a 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.480 part of your campus or your organization. 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:23.280 So maybe they waited. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.200 But they waited until the end of March before they 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:30.480 made this announcement, and pretty quickly folks started making comments 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.200 about how they were not happy with this decision and 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.000 frankly outraged by the decision. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:36.359 Oh but I didn't realize it was that quick. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.480 This was weeks they made the announcement and she's out 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.440 as a speaker in a matter of weeks. Now, the 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.520 question are, well, I have several questions. What do we 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.680 want to answer? First what she said and let people 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:46.040 hear that. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.360 Okay, maybe we start from that point. 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:52.000 So one thing that she and her camp have pointed 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:55.000 to is on the day of Charlie Kirk's assassination, that 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.760 was September tenth, twenty twenty five, she immediately condemned the act. 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.359 She went on to Facebook and she said, this isn't 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.840 the kind of America I want to live in. I 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:06.840 am sure Charlie Kirk and I would not agree on 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.920 many things, and my heart is broken for his family. 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:11.760 That was the first that was her. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.680 On the day of his assassination, she went to Facebook 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:20.480 and she said that. However, two days later, on September twelfth, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.200 she made a post that has since been deleted. She 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:26.639 had quotes from Charlie Kirk, and here was her caption. 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.880 These aren't sound bites taken out of context. Millions of 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:33.639 people feel they were harmed, and the murder that was 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:38.000 horrific and should never have happened does not magically erase 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.760 what was said or done. The controversy isn't about being 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:45.960 politically incorrect, having a different opinion, or preaching the gospel. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.960 It is about repeating bigoted ideas on a stage that 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.560 reached tens of millions. It's important to remember that the 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.640 incredible tragedy of a public assassination does not erase the 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.320 harm many experienced from his work, words and the ensuing 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.760 actions his followers took. Is that the one that's the 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.080 one that really upset people. And then she added to 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:12.840 many Americans, especially if you're black, LGBTQ, or Muslim, Charlie 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.960 Kirk was not a person who was simply engaged in 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.080 good faith debates on college campuses. 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:19.760 It was that same part of the same. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:20.719 One she put up. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.000 And all of these posts there was a caption, there 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.680 were quote. All have been deleted, but she did put 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:25.960 them up. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.760 Can I ask when were they when they were? Okay, 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:30.760 So if this happened in the past couple of weeks, 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:31.920 that's the Yeah. 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:33.440 All I know is that they were. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.360 They've been referred to as since deleted deleted tweets. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.679 All right, So, folks on campus, I guess what started 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:41.920 bubbling up? I guess ropes? Was it a me as 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.000 soon as she was announced. I assume people started looking 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:45.680 into her and this came up. But what has been 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.840 the I hate using backlash all the time. 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:49.600 But here's the interesting thing. 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.719 When there was starting to be some backlash, it's really 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.800 interesting what the university said. Initially, this was on April eighth. 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.480 They put out a big public statement. They said the 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.160 response to her speaking for commencement have been overwhelmingly positive. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.600 She focuses on a non partisan approach to history and civics, 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.040 which is consistent with our standards as a university. And 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.680 the university added that she had spoken on campus previously 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.279 and was well received, so they were defending it. When 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:21.240 there started to be some comments that were negative about 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.239 their decision. They immediately came out and defended their decision. 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.719 And one, what do we know how recently she had 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.279 been she had spoken on campus? Any chance she's spoken 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:31.400 on campus since his death? 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:33.159 That was what the reference was. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.600 Yes, that she had spoken, Yes, and they had all 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.480 received so they I think this is why they felt 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:42.680 comfortable having her be the commencement speaker. And look, there 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:48.280 were plenty of positive comments and a lot of positive feedback. However, 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:53.520 the opposition voices that surely contributed to their decision were 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.080 from the Turning Point USA chapter president, who was there 0:05:56.120 --> 0:06:01.040 on campus obviously, and several notable Republicans. You had Congressman 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.200 Burgess Owens, who wrote an open letter to Sharon mccannon 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.240 this week on April fifteenth. 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.600 Saying what well, asking her to step down. 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:11.479 She said, I write a letter, he said, I write 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.039 a letter regarding your planned participation. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:15.640 You should withdraw. 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.159 This is not a casual disagreement over ideas, nor is 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.039 it an attempt to suppress your voice. 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:22.919 The issue is judgment and timing. 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.520 It is whether this moment calls for restraint, humility, and respect, 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:31.000 or for something else entirely huh on an open letter 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:35.200 on x Then US Senator Mike Lee also said UVU 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.200 couldn't even wait a year before scheduling a commencement speaker 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.560 who defamed Charlie Kirk in the days immediately following his 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:46.080 horrific murder on UVU campus. Then you had Congresswoman Celest 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:50.039 Malloy saying, I am disappointed in UVU's tone deaf decision. 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.799 A commencement should bring a campus together, and UVU needs 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.280 that more than ever, So just saying that they should 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:01.240 reverse course choose a speaker who will unite the student body. Yes, Basically, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:06.440 every prominent Republican lawmaker from the state of Utah was 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.640 upset and very public about their concerns about. 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:11.040 Having her speaking. 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:15.680 Okay, a Republican, every Republican. Okay, this is confirming here, correct, Okay, 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:17.200 So this is what we talked about at the top. 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.840 The reason that she was that she's no longer speaking. 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:23.840 It's not because she was dumped as a speaker. Is 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.240 how they're putting it. Is that the same face I 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:27.880 you know, I don't know. 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.400 And they did not give any specific security threats, but 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.040 they blamed it on that they This was the official 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:39.080 statement from UVU. They made this announcement, I believe, on 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:44.000 Thursday due to increased safety concerns related to the speaker 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.960 and in consultation with public safety professionals and Sharon McMahon, 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:53.760 Utah Valley University has decided to proceed without a featured 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:58.840 commencement speaker for this year's ceremony. So they blamed security concerns, 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.200 and they're very well may have been. Who knows if 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.360 there were death threats called in, if there were threats 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.960 of violence, and given what that campus has already endured 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:10.920 with the assassination, the very public assassination of Charlie Kirk, 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:14.800 it's just fascinating to me though, because look, there was 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.480 an opportunity for learning, growth and all of that. However, 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:24.240 I do also wonder how this wasn't more carefully considered, 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.119 given just how close in proximity it's been to Charlie 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.320 Kirk's assassination, and given the fact that this campus did 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.640 have a very public assassination, just the concerns surrounding that period. 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.040 With do you say a period or having her or anybody. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:43.439 Or having anyone who has any any connection at all 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.320 or weighed in at all on his assassination being put 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:52.960 there on a stage in the middle of a massive 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:53.960 graduation ceremony. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.400 I don't know. That would just be a little frightening. 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:03.440 It I I don't know. I don't have, like you said, 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:05.880 anyone who has a background. So what are they supposed 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.199 to do? Do we need to make sure this year, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.040 on this one, we have got to nail this right 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.319 and make it perfect. And does that mean we need 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.960 to have somebody who is in full support of Charlie Kirk, 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.280 who agreed with all the ideas of Charlie Kirk, or 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.160 someone who just didn't say shit about Charlie Kirk after 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:22.640 he died. 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:23.360 Is that what you do? 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.880 Or should you have somebody from your campus community, have 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:30.560 somebody who a senior, have a professor that's respected, have 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:33.680 your school president. Should you bring anybody in at all 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.800 outside of your community, bring in a pastor bring in something. 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.080 Maybe that's the way they should have gone, Robes. 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:41.359 I still. 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:47.319 Struggle with what you just said, A missed opportunity, Right, 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.679 This is a woman who I think the statement you 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.720 read about she had about Charlie Kirk two days later 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.800 was one of the most eloquent ones I've heard said. 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.560 Because a lot of people aren't respectful in how they say, Well, 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.560 who cares about his death? He used to say this, this, 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.240 That's not the right tone. She found a good She 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.520 sounded like an academic. She sounded like a bright, smart 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:13.840 lady who could engage a college campus in ideas. And 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.480 she seemed to be maybe almost the perfect fit. 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.440 Except Robes. Am I wrong in all that? 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.880 Because you have to understand it is too soon, and 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.480 it is too sensitive. Still, this is too raw, and 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.160 don't toy with us at all, with anybody who even 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.319 tiptoed around something like this. 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:35.480 And I think you just nailed it with that last bit, 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:39.160 because I agree with everything you said. But remember, was 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.600 it nearly I believe I think USA Today one of 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:46.920 the papers this week in response to this story, I believe, 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:51.719 counted it was nearly one hundred people, prominent folks who 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:56.600 were doctors, lawyers, teachers, educators who lost journalists who lost 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:01.120 their jobs because they said something publicly on social media 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:10.480 that didn't feel respectful to everybody who followed and respect 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:15.600 to Charlie Kirk. That's how sensitive this particular subject has 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.960 been around the country. Now you have it specifically here 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:25.120 on the very campus where he was murdered. That it's 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.880 even more intense in terms of what's acceptable and what's not, 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.400 at least what people will tolerate and what they won't, 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.520 and the question being would it bring peace, would it 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.800 bring unity or would it create more division? 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.640 Do we think they knew they were aware of these 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:43.640 I think they had to have known, sed Okay, So 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.679 then there's there's no way I'm on a committee and 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.280 you present that to me and I vote yes, we 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.520 should do her, right, There's no way I'm there, guys. Yeah, 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.480 that's not even toy with this a little bit. Do 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.280 you remember how hot things were in this country when 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.560 he got shot, how hot it became afterwards, in the 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.920 back and forth and in the left and the right 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.400 over a guy's death. We should all just be in mourning, 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.840 and instead we were fighting each other. Again, Bro, there's 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:11.920 zero chanin if you're in that committee room and the 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:13.760 chancellors say, hey, this is who we want to pick. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.800 She had these messages a few years ago or last 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:17.760 year after he died. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:19.320 I think this will be a problem. 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:20.920 Yes, okay. 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.040 Would you have voted to have her as a commencement 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:24.080 speaker if you had to vote no? 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:25.720 Okay? Well we're two no votes. 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.119 Yeah, and I probably would have said, hey, I appreciate 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.040 her tone, I appreciate what she had to say, and 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.840 maybe we can consider her maybe. 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:35.840 A year from now or five years from now. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.640 When things have when the intensity of emotions have been 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.760 able to settle a little people or able to maybe 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.160 look at it more reflectively and less emotionally, and then 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.920 maybe this would be a good speaker from that perspective. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:54.359 But within months of his assassinations, I can see. 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.920 Now, Yeah, I'm actually confused why they thought this was 0:12:57.920 --> 0:12:58.680 a good choice. 0:12:58.880 --> 0:13:01.480 Again, the one I'm not getting onto the woman for 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.800 doing anything wrong, saying anything wrong. And again I give 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.040 her credit for the way she said it. What robes 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:11.120 This is the u v U September we were talking 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.840 for or of that seven months ago, he died on 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:20.240 your campus. It has been the most impactful thing to 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.920 happen on your campus. You're still recovering from that. Kids 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.520 are still walking by the area where this man died. 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.079 And yeah, exactly, Yeah, this is not the one to 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:31.880 play cute with. 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.360 But when we come back, we're going to talk about 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.080 what Susan McMahon said in defense of herself. It's really 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:41.120 interesting and may cause you to think, well, maybe she 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.520 would have been the actual perfect person to be the 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.720 commencement speaker at this year's graduation ceremony. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.839 Welcome back, everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.000 We're talking about the decision by the Utah Valley University 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.760 to have no commencement speaker at its graduation ceremonies happening 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.200 at the end of this month. This was a major, 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:17.720 major reversal, of course, because just earlier this week the 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.320 university was defending its decision to have Susan McMahon. She 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.080 is a New York Times bestselling author, She is a podcaster, 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:30.000 and she has been commonly referred to as America's government teacher. 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:36.560 She's nonpartisan, she is a uniter, she is philosophically. She 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:41.560 engages folks and students and people in her community to 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.680 think with an open mind and an open heart. So 0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.000 she seems like she would be the perfect person to 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:51.120 be the commencement speaker at a university that frankly was 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.560 the home of a national tragedy, the assassination of Charlie Kirk. 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.000 The problem is, Susan McMahon made some comments on her 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:05.239 social media about Charlie Kirk in the days after his assassination. 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.800 That did not sit well with a lot of folks, 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:15.040 and they were upset that she even said anything about 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.960 his messaging, even though at the same time she still 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:19.359 condemned his assassination. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.160 Can we say anything. 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.560 About how we personally feel about something or a topic 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.320 and still say it respectfully and still have it be 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.520 received in a way that could engage conversation. 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:34.360 It seems like it's the answers. 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.640 No, it's too political. It wasn't just a matter of 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.240 criticizing Charlie Kirk. Afterwards, if you put any message out 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.320 that wasn't supportive of Charlie Kirk and his messaging and 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.160 his life, I think people were just were even getting attacked. 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.640 That was a very hot time in this country. Ropes 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.520 to where you were better off not open your mouth 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:05.360 and to be honest, robes it when somebody passes. I 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.440 think about Frankly Kobe Bryant. This is the first thing 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:13.400 that came to mind where people immediately started bringing up 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.600 past issues he'd had and suggesting almost, well, why are 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.040 you mourning a guy who did this? Why are you mourning? 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.200 Like some of those messages that came out of the time. 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.960 It's not right if you can't, just as a human being, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:31.160 give it a beat. Somebody just lost a husband, a father, 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:36.160 a brother, a son in the most horrific way anybody 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.960 could imagine. You gotta give it a beat just to 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.600 respect the family before you open your mouth, I would say, Robes, 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.640 just as a human being, and you have the right 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.200 to say what you want. But is there no part 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.480 of you when somebody is down that you just want 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:55.240 to hold your tongue for a second, just as much 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.200 as you might your biggest enemy right now, Robes, whoever 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.200 it is, if they die, the first thing out your 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.880 mouth publicly is not going to be well, yeah, that 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.520 mother did this to me back. 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:06.399 You're not gonna do that. 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.040 Some people do, though, But that and therein lies the problem. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.320 You have a right to say it, of course you do, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:17.080 but there's some part of timing and just being decent 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.399 that factors into this. And I don't the woman didn't 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:25.080 bash Charlie Kirk. She was engaging in the conversation that 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:28.720 was having happening nationally, right, But man. 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.240 Bab you just made such a good point, and I 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.280 think that was part of what some people said. 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.919 Timing is everything, and there is. 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.959 We've done so many of these stories where instead of 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.879 giving it a beat, or just taking some time to 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.320 reflect on your feelings, maybe what you've thought about this 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.640 person leading up to their death and just or whatever 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:53.760 is happening to them and take a beat, we've just 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.720 we've been doing stories about people just mouthing off. And 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.200 I think just having these phones or these computers right 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.360 at our yeah availability where we can just whatever we're 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.479 feeling in the moment, just type type, type, type and 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.640 click and send, and we don't recognize the impact those 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.000 words will have on someone else. And maybe if we 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.240 just took a moment, took a week, took a beat, 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.840 we would say, why do I need to add this? 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.359 Like what's the value in me adding this? Is it 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.200 me serving me, me feeling good? 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:23.760 Like I was right? You were wrong? 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.320 See I do think there's an element to that where 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.199 we all want to kind of show that we were 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.480 right all along and look at you, And I just 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:36.000 think in that spirit, it never elevates the conversation, It 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.520 never moves things forward, it never unites anybody, It makes 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:40.280 things worse. 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.000 Just you can it's okay to mourn, rogues, to let 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:47.359 somebody mourn and you I asked anybody who said, well, 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.919 I have the right or this was on my mind 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.760 or this was on my heart. And does your desire 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:58.399 or your need to say something negative about somebody that 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:05.240 just passed, does that trump the pain that Charlie Kirk's 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.560 widow was feeling in the days that followed. Is it 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.639 more important to you to have your moment than for 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:16.120 her to have hers? Ask yourself that robes and if 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.439 you still feel yep, then you go ahead and tweet 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.200 knock yourself out. But rhabe, It's that simple. There's nothing 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.280 any of us could say about Charlie Kirk that was 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.200 more important than just letting that family more and have 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:31.920 the mind. Now, I'm not talking about a movement, I'm 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.440 not talking about the right and not talking about MAGA, 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:35.920 just that family. 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:36.440 Yep. 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.480 We humanize people, Kirk, Ye there, humanized people to get 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:41.320 our point across. 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.400 But and now look that's good. 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:45.280 I'm gonna write that down. 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:47.479 We dehumanize to get our point across. 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.440 That is true, right, And then look, Susan McMahon went 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.960 into defense mode, as you might imagine, when she saw 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:58.560 all of this incoming from Republican leaders and certainly folks 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.760 hit there on campus who represented Charlie Kirk and his ideas, 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.320 But this is what she had to say. This was 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:10.440 a statement released by her camp. Sharon unequivocally condemned the 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.360 murder of Charlie Kirk, repeatedly and publicly, calling his death 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.800 a tragedy and stressing that public debate must never be 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.600 met with violence. Sharon's goal is to unpack what is 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.760 happening in society and help people understand how government works. 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.800 That spirit is reflected in her work bringing together voices 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.000 from across the aisle, in closed door conversations with her 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.520 book club community, from Amy Cony Barrett to Kamala Harris, 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.960 and in interviews with Utah Governor Spencer Cox and Nikki Haley, 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.639 to foster the kind of dialogue and perspective democracy depends on. 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.080 She believes what we need most is more bridge building 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.320 and more people willing to show up for one another. 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.080 So that's her message, that's her mantra. 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:55.560 That's what she claims she wanted to speak about in 0:20:55.640 --> 0:21:00.640 her commencement address, which all sounds wonderful. Unfortunately, those comments 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.520 she or those posts she put out on her social media, 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.760 we're just too tall of a mountain for her to overcome. 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.000 And look, she deleted them, so that might say something 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:12.760 to think about that. 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.280 If you've ever had to delete a post, maybe that's 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.560 kind of the aha moment when you recognize you shouldn't 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:21.600 have posted it in the first place. And just by 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:23.840 the mere fact that she did delete them kind of 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.200 means she didn't stand by them, which I think says 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:27.520