WEBVTT - #007 Jason Flom with Richard Rosario 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:06.800 I came from a beautiful neighborhood. I had a beautiful life. 0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:09.720 I went to sleep because September seventh was the first 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:11.000 day of my high school year. 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:13.480 I was going to be a senior. At twenty two, 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:16.560 I was set to start college. I woke up and 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:18.400 my life was never the same again. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.440 Cops came out with guns drawn, and I never saw 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.040 freedom ever since after that. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.400 It's like roach motan. Once you get in, you and 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:28.080 I can't now. 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:56.680 This is wrongful conviction with Jason Flommer. Today's guest is 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:58.840 Richard Rosario. Richard, welcome to the show. 0:00:58.920 --> 0:00:59.840 Thank you for having me. 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:02.960 Richard was convicted of a murder that happened in the 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.840 Bronx while he was one thousand miles away in Florida, 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.080 with thirteen alibi witnesses and. 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.040 Various other types of evidence to back it up. But 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:13.840 let's go back. So you were born in Puerto Rico. 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:19.200 My parents were at the time just My mother was 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:19.959 a seamstress. 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:21.959 My father used to work labor. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.640 And they were poor by definition, by today's definitions. 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.720 But we had a house. We had a little mango 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.320 tree in the front of the house. It was beautiful. 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:34.720 I mean, you didn't have all the luxuries that you 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.560 see in America, but you have what you need. You know, 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.640 you had the good weather, the sustenance, great weather, and 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.680 people that loved you. There wasn't a day that I 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.000 would go to sleep hungry or you know, have any 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:47.520 troubles in school or anything. 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:48.320 So it was beautiful. 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:49.280 When did you come here? 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.800 When I was five years old, immigrated to the United 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.320 States and we resided in the Bronx. 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.360 In nineteen eighty eighty one, we. 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:02.280 Started living in the Bronx, and it's an experience because 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.480 you're an immigrant. You don't know English, so you have 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.440 to acclimate to a whole new culture, right and the 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.799 culture in New York back then was hip hop and 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.880 you know, this whole drug phase happened in New York 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:15.520 at the time where there was a lot of crime 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.240 in the streets was riddled with that. So here I 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.680 am a young boy from Puerto Rico who wasn't never 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:25.120 exposed to that type of stuff, being exposed to this 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.200 different type of culture. Did you have, Yes, I had. 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.760 I have two brothers and five sisters. At that time, 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.920 my mom separated from my dad, and it was one 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.440 of the reasons why she relocated in the United States 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:42.079 to find new life. And you know, everybody that comes 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.920 in migrades to the United States to find a new life, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.079 a better life. And she came here a single parent 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.360 and raised us on her own in the South Bronx. 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.520 New York was my main everything I knew, So Puerto 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:58.800 Rico wasn't appealable to me as a teenager, so I 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:00.359 stopped going at the age of them. 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.320 I mean, we know, New York was a little were 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:07.239 now in nineteen eighty eighty nine, eighty nine, so yeah, 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:08.480 that was kind of the height of the crime wave. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.480 Things getting crazy, right, and then you got you had 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.639 a little altercation and when you were fifteen years old. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.560 Yeah, I was a kid, and you know, once again 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.239 in Puerto Rico and never witnessed anything that that I've 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.280 witnessed in the United States and the Bromston particular at 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.799 this time. And for obvious reasons, the crime rate, the 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.840 drugs and everything that was happening in this era, it 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:35.640 was pretty tough. But you know, I began, you know, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:40.000 my teenage life trying to follow the new trends, wanting 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.920 to have those sneakers. My family's poor, we can't afford 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:47.480 those sneakers, the lottos, the new fashion statements back then. 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.760 And so I started hanging out with the wrong crowd as. 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:55.800 Most teenagers and despite what type of environment they grow up. 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.400 When you meet your contemporaries at the time and you 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.880 start acting made into what they liked, well, you know, 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:06.480 the music, the style, and I living in the South Bronx, 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.680 it's that's the environment that I'm acclimating to, where it's crime, 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.480 it's drugs, it's closed, it's you have to go out 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:14.000 and get it. 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.160 And so I got with this bad crowd, and. 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.120 You know, the one thing that they used to do 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.720 is go out there and commit crimes to get what 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.600 they wanted a shirt, a pair of sneakers and stuff. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.400 And unfortunately I knew it was wrong, but I followed 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.800 and I got caught. One day, my friends committed the 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:36.480 robbery as a kid, and they had the wallet. And 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:38.240 my friend was older than me at the time, he 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.960 was seventeen years old. His name is Danny and he 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:45.720 died since, but he passed me the wallet and I 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.560 took the wallet and I put it in my pocket. 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.280 Had the guy's credit cards, and that was my first 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:54.480 interaction with the criminal justice. 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.360 System. I was caught with credit cards in my pocket. 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:58.560 And got probation for that. 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.239 Yes, I got probation. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:00.880 Fifteen years old. 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.440 And yeah, you weren't a violent guy, you know, I 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.960 was in No, we're going to go now from time 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.240 you're fifteen to the time you're twenty, and we're talking 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.039 about nineteen ninety six. Yes, right, in nineteen ninety six. 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:16.800 Let's let's paint a picture here. So you're in Florida, Yes, right, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:18.840 And what were you doing in Florida at the time. 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:20.200 First of all, which part of Florida were you? 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:21.680 I was in Orlando. 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.800 And the reason why I went over there is, you know, 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.279 I was a quick learning in life, and you know, 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.960 I made the mistakes as a teenager. I got in trouble. 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.240 I had my daughter, and things started dawning on me 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.200 that I can't live life like this. I have children 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.280 that take care of I have, you know, a daughter 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.000 that's going to look up to a dad and a 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:42.039 son that's gonna need me there. 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:45.839 So I said it's time for me to change. My environment. 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.320 In New York was in the place the Bronx, especially 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.000 at the time, was in a place where I had 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.680 opportunities because I had messed up them opportunities as a child, 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:57.520 and I was known in the local precinct as you know, 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.920 one of these troubled teenagers. And so I wanted to 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.920 just leave that past and go to Florida and give 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:06.800 my family a new life. And you know that's why 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:08.000 my plans were. 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.520 So you went down to Florida to sort of scope 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:11.800 it out and try to figure out what kind of 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:13.120 opportunities were going to be there. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.960 For you exactly, and it's basically you're twenty now, so 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.400 you're saying, well, I want to Yeah, I want a 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:22.719 piece of the American dream. What does that dream look 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.560 like to me? To me, it looked at like on Florida, 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:30.719 you know, Sunshine State, it's a slower speed. And I 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.599 want folks to understand that I was still young and 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.120 still immature, so you know, it wasn't beyond me smoking 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.760 a little marijuana or hanging out in a club. But 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.279 I wasn't out there, you know, hurting people. And I 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.800 remember I was in Florida and I was still you know, 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:49.680 My biggest issue, and I want people to understand, is 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.119 that I was dealing with individuals that were still into 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:53.960 that lifestyle. 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:55.440 So although I was into it. 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.960 These guys were still doing things that weren't good. 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.000 And I find out from my. 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.599 Mother, you know, I call my mother check up as 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.280 I usually do, my wife and the kids how they're doing. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.560 And they're telling me the detectives are looking for you. 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.480 And I'm like, they were just here just a couple 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.040 months ago, you know, tell them I'm here, I'm in Florida. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:17.640 They want me, they know where I'm at. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:19.600 She said, well, I told them he was in Florida. 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.720 They're saying, they're looking for you for a murder. And 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.560 I'm like, I'm thinking at the time, my mother, she 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.640 she knows English, but she's Puerto Rican descent. Maybe she's confused, 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.520 she's maybe she's confused, right, But then my sister tells 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.360 me the same thing, and then my wife tells me 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:35.880 the same thing. 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.680 Detectives are looking for you for murder. And then they 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.240 tell me to day June nineteenth. 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:42.840 And you had been in Florida for how long? For 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:44.360 a couple of months. 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.280 I was there from May first that I arrived to 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.000 Florida all the way to the time that I came 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:51.160 back from Florida. 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:54.160 So you come back, you're here. They're looking for you, yes, 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:55.480 so you come back to New York. 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:56.760 June thirtieth. 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.920 I got on a Greyhound bus and arrived July first, 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.880 I at six in the morning, and I called my 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:06.320 wife and I told her I'm heading home right now. 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.160 And at this time, me and my wife lived separately. 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.960 I lived at my parents' house until we had enough 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.280 money to get on apartment. My wife is living at 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.920 her parents' house. She was working, so I'm going over 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.080 to my in law's house to see my kids, see 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.200 my wife before she went to work. Seven in the morning. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.480 I get there and you know, I had to talk 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.920 with her and I told her, listen, I've never killed 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:28.720 no one in my life. 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:30.320 So I'm going to go to the Bronx. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.480 I'll contact the priestsint and I should be home sometime 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:38.040 tonight and we'll talk more. And I spent that afternoon. 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.760 I made breakfast with my kids. I took them to 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:45.280 the park, and I told my daughter at the end 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.120 of the day, and that afternoon before I left to 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:48.880 the Bronx that you know, she was crying. 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:50.839 She wanted to go with daddy, and I told her 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:52.840 I'll be back. I'll be back later. 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.959 On and I left to go to the Bronx to 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.600 talk to the police, and I never came back for 0:08:58.640 --> 0:08:59.520 twenty years. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.480 I just got to digest that for a second, left 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.160 it and after saying goodbye, like any dad would, Yeah, 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.080 I gotta go take care of something. I'll see you later. 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.319 It's the same thing any dad. Anything that would react 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.280 a three year old girl. And so you go to 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.840 the police precinct and you go in there to clear 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:17.360 things up. 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:18.840 And what happens. 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:22.960 Well, first I got to the Bronx, I called the detectives. 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:27.120 Detective Charles Krueger picks up the phone. He's from the 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.080 Robbery Division. He has nothing to do with this homicide. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.360 So Charles Krueger tells me listen, they want to talk 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:36.960 to you about some homicide that occurred, and one would 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:37.720 be the best time. 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.960 And I told Charles Kruger, well, i'll be in with 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:40.880 my lawyers tomorrow. 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.079 I'll get to the priests and with my lawyers. I 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.560 didn't commit a crime. I've been in Florida. And he 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:47.320 said all right, So I hung up the phone. A 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.079 half an hour later, the detectives come to my mother's house. 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.080 So I look at the peak hole and I see 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:54.280 the detectives. 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:55.600 I opened the door. 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.760 There's nothing for me to worry about, and I let 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.040 them in the house. They talked to my mother briefly, 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.600 and this was Charles Kruger was there, but the main 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:11.520 two homicide detectives were offso Martinez and Gary Whittaker where 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.320 the two detectives. So they come in. Martinez spoke to 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.679 my mother. Whittaker spoke to me and they said, listen, 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.320 we just want to ask you questions and relating to 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.280 this murder, and if you were in Florida, we're going 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:23.960 to find out and you're going to be good. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:25.560 And I said, okay, so let's go. 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.800 And right before we left, they said, but we have 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.440 to cuff you because this procedure. And my heart like 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.640 skipped a little bit because I'm saying, wait a minute, 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:35.480 I'm leaving with you. 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.040 Why do you have to put can't cuffs on me. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.560 I'm telling you I'm innocent, and I have evidence that 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:41.400 I'm leaving with you. 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:42.640 It's not like I'm running. 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:45.240 I opened the door for you, and when they put 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.760 them cuffs on me, it gave me a little chill 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.320 having them cuffs on me. 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:51.560 And don't understand that. 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:53.840 I mean, I went to the priest and then everything 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:57.720 changed in the priest and Detective Whittaker was very amicable. 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.079 He tried to persuade me telling them the truth, which 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.120 I was that I was in Florida, would be the 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:06.920 best thing. And then Martinez would come in after Whitker 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:10.640 would finish this interrogation start that lasted five hours. 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.360 And he'll tell me, we know you did it. 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.120 You know you're a murderer and you're going to spend 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:16.960 the rest of your life in jail, and if you 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.320 don't tell me about it, you will never see your daughter. 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:20.800 And he's given me this. 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.680 So after five hours, I said, all right, you want 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.280 me to write a statement, and he passes me a 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.280 piece of paper and a pen and I wrote on 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.400 it and then I passed it back and they were 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:33.920 really pissed off of what I wrote. I said, I've 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:38.360 never committed a crime. I've never taken someone's life, and 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:40.920 God knows this and it is God's will. And that 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:44.040 was my exact statement. And that was it. From that 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:49.840 moment on. They they they just processed me through the system. 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.280 I spoke to Detective Silverman, who was in part of 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.880 the case, which is still a mystery. He was the 0:11:56.960 --> 0:12:01.640 one showing the witnesses pictures. He was in the homicide detectives. 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.000 He was not part of the case at all, and 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.280 he took the statement for me where I gave thirteen 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:10.160 alibi witnesses. In addition to that, I described where I was, 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.960 the homes, I mean detail from the staircase, the houses 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.360 to the right, the bedroom is here. I gave a 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.960 detailed description of where I was, the people I was with, 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:28.000 the phone numbers, phone records, job applications, everything, and they never, 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.559 not once, they didn't pick up the phone to find 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:31.840 out if I was saying the truth. 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:37.440 So you're presenting them with basically ironclad evidence, right, There's 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.439 really no other way to describe it. I mean, you 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.160 can't have a better alibi than there were a thousand 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.600 miles away. Right, It's not like I was at the 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.400 movies and my sister said she saw me and whatever 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:49.240 you know, I mean, which is still an alibi. 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:51.280 Right, it was impossible. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.120 It's impossible. Here you are. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:55.959 Now you're in the system. Now you're in lock up, right, 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.000 you're waiting for your trial. 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:58.280 You got a lawyer. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.920 Yes, I'm thinking this will be over in a day. 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:02.959 You know, they're gonna find out I was in Florida. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:03.800 Is done. 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.120 So first I talked to the detectives, went through that, 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.960 talked to the DA, went through that, went through the 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.839 lineup with a Lloyder named Rudy VELAs. I was picked 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.760 out of the lineup. They finally assigned me a lawyer 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.840 named Joyce Hartsfield. Then I poured out my heart tug 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.880 because it's been more than a week now and I'm saying, hey, 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.840 I don't belong here. You know, my witnesses are in Florida. 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.280 The evidence is there, everything is there for you. And 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.280 I reiterated most of the things I did to the detectives, 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:37.320 and Joyce Horsfield asked the judge for funds to send 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.719 an investigator. I'm indigent. I don't have no money for investigators, 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.160 and so the judge granted the motion. 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:44.480 Okay, so now you're good. 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:45.880 I'm supposed to be good. 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.160 It's supposed to work great, Right, you get the evidence, 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:54.640 you have the investigators going. What happened was that Joyce Harsfield, 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.800 after a year, I'm telling her, please, you know, find 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.640 these people. She would not answer my letters. She would 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:04.280 not and to my my please, and I'm desperate. It's 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.160 been Yeah, I've wrote the letters that we have records of. 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.040 You know, she was not being she was in contact 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:14.000 with me at all. And I'm desperate. I'm in prison. 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.400 I'm not seeing my children as much as I would 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.480 like to. I don't belong here, and yes, I know 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:21.960 it's a mistake. I'm dealing with these gang members and 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.680 police officers, and I'm really having a lot of trouble 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.480 because you know, I'm twenty years old and I don't 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.400 belong here, and you know, you have to deal with 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.800 this volatile environment that you don't belong and and she 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:34.960 would not answer me. 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:36.400 It's rikers, It's chaos. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.600 It's chaos. It's completely chaos. I mean, from the correctional 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.200 officers to the inmates. The corruption is just so you know, 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.280 abhorrent that that you know, I can't even put into 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:48.920 the words what I was experiencing. 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:49.040 Now. 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.080 All I knew is that if I had to talk 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.120 to my lawyer and my wife, I had to be 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:58.640 at the mercy of gang bangers and you know, malicious 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.360 people that are actually in there for crimes they committed 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:02.960 and I'm nothing like these people. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:04.520 Just to get to the phone, what do I do 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:05.880 to talk to my family? 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:08.800 And you know, unfortunately it led to a lot of 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.280 fights and tribulations and a lot of victimization. Because I 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.720 don't I don't want people to think that I glamorized that. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.800 But I've been I've been slashed, I've been stabbed, I've 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.120 been jumped by inmates, and I've had to struggle and 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.760 fight and claw my way out that type of environment, 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.560 even correctional offices. I've been brutalized by then. And you know, 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.520 I've stood up because I was in the right. I 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.520 didn't belong there and I had to suffer that, and 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.920 you know, my family had to suffer it. But it's 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:38.960 it's chaos. It's completely chaos. 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.520 So your lawyer is not only doing nothing, but also 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.400 not even returning your calls. Yes, so now what happens? 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:48.160 Does she eventually come through, investigate through something? 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.040 What happens next? What leads Let's get up to the trial. 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.680 This is the amazing part that I saw of learning 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.120 the law, and I had to this. 0:15:57.280 --> 0:15:58.360 Lady's not defending me. 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.080 So I put in emotion to have a taking off 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.640 my case and giving me another lawyer. The judge does this, 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.680 he gives me Stephen Kaiser and so Stephen Kaiser comes in. 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.920 He has no clue of what motion has been approved 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.080 and denied. He comes in under the belief that the 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.680 investigative funds were denied, no investigation. 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:19.960 And he never asked you. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.600 I told him, I mean my witnesses. I mean, here's 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.320 a year later, and I'm I'm I'm livid. I'm talking 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.200 the same thing for years. I'm innocent. This is where 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.320 the evidence is at, these all the people. And he says, well, 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.680 the judge denied the funds for investigators, so I don't 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:39.440 know nothing. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.720 So you think now that maybe the first one had 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.240 it wrong, yeah, or maybe the judge changed their mind, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:46.520 or whatever it is. And now you're dealing with a lawyer, 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.720 who are dealing with two lawyers, both of whom are incompetent. Yes, 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:55.880 and so now so, somehow, amazingly in between the transition 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.720 from the first lawyer to the second lawyer, information, the 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.440 one thing that could have helped you gets lost and 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.760 get screwed up, which is the idea that there was 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.560 money for someone to go to Florida, confirm the alibis 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.440 and come back on a white horse and go very sorry. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.280 It's all a big mistake. Go home. Let's go find 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.480 the real killer. That's what's supposed to happen. 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:19.920 That's what it's supposed to happen. 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:20.680 That's not what happened. 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:21.679 That's not what happened. 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.520 A right, So what happened now, so now you got 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:24.119 to go to trial. 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.160 Now I got to go to trial with a lawyer 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:27.840 that's ill prepared to defend me. 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:29.880 And they're balancing all these other things. They're going to court, 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:30.879 they're juggling all these. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:31.920 Cases, hundreds cases. 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.000 And one thing that I want to add to that, 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.000 which is important. You know, I don't want to make 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.720 excuses for these lawyers that misrepresented me, and you know 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.280 it's completely appropriate to say that they. 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:43.920 Dropped the ball. 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.360 But before that, the DA gets the case, the police 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.639 get the case. So before a lawyer touches your case, 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.359 if anybody's going to know whether you're innocent or not, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:54.920 it's going. 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.000 To be the district attorney and the police, if they 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:57.360 do the. 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.399 Investigative work and the work that they support supposed to 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:04.320 be doing to protect the citizens that they've been sworn 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:05.200 to protect and serve. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.680 So the DA drops the ball. 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.800 Now they give it to these overworked, overstressed lawyers. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.359 What do you think is going to happen. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.880 You're in trial and the pressure is incredible. Now your 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.000 lawyer gets up. Are there any of the witnesses from 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:33.040 Florida that came up. 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:34.159 To testify on your behalf? 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:35.240 Yeah, Jeanie SAIDA. 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:39.120 And John Torres came and the DA said, well, they're 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:39.720 his friends. 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:41.399 They were life in him. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:43.959 But what we know now is that the DA was 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.399 telling the jury a lie, that this crime that occur 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.600 was not premeditated, that it was coincidental. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:52.919