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Speaker 1: I came from a beautiful neighborhood. I had a beautiful life.

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Speaker 2: I went to sleep because September seventh was the first

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Speaker 2: day of my high school year.

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Speaker 1: I was going to be a senior. At twenty two,

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Speaker 1: I was set to start college. I woke up and

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Speaker 1: my life was never the same again.

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Speaker 3: Cops came out with guns drawn, and I never saw

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Speaker 3: freedom ever since after that.

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Speaker 1: It's like roach motan. Once you get in, you and

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Speaker 1: I can't now.

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Speaker 2: This is wrongful conviction with Jason Flommer. Today's guest is

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Speaker 2: Richard Rosario. Richard, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Richard was convicted of a murder that happened in the

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Speaker 2: Bronx while he was one thousand miles away in Florida,

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Speaker 2: with thirteen alibi witnesses and.

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Speaker 4: Various other types of evidence to back it up. But

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Speaker 4: let's go back. So you were born in Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 5: My parents were at the time just My mother was

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Speaker 5: a seamstress.

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Speaker 1: My father used to work labor.

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Speaker 5: And they were poor by definition, by today's definitions.

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Speaker 1: But we had a house. We had a little mango

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Speaker 1: tree in the front of the house. It was beautiful.

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Speaker 5: I mean, you didn't have all the luxuries that you

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Speaker 5: see in America, but you have what you need. You know,

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Speaker 5: you had the good weather, the sustenance, great weather, and

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Speaker 5: people that loved you. There wasn't a day that I

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Speaker 5: would go to sleep hungry or you know, have any

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Speaker 5: troubles in school or anything.

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Speaker 1: So it was beautiful.

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Speaker 4: When did you come here?

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Speaker 5: When I was five years old, immigrated to the United

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Speaker 5: States and we resided in the Bronx.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty eighty one, we.

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Speaker 5: Started living in the Bronx, and it's an experience because

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Speaker 5: you're an immigrant. You don't know English, so you have

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Speaker 5: to acclimate to a whole new culture, right and the

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Speaker 5: culture in New York back then was hip hop and

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Speaker 5: you know, this whole drug phase happened in New York

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Speaker 5: at the time where there was a lot of crime

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Speaker 5: in the streets was riddled with that. So here I

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Speaker 5: am a young boy from Puerto Rico who wasn't never

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Speaker 5: exposed to that type of stuff, being exposed to this

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Speaker 5: different type of culture. Did you have, Yes, I had.

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Speaker 5: I have two brothers and five sisters. At that time,

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Speaker 5: my mom separated from my dad, and it was one

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Speaker 5: of the reasons why she relocated in the United States

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Speaker 5: to find new life. And you know, everybody that comes

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Speaker 5: in migrades to the United States to find a new life,

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Speaker 5: a better life. And she came here a single parent

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Speaker 5: and raised us on her own in the South Bronx.

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Speaker 5: New York was my main everything I knew, So Puerto

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Speaker 5: Rico wasn't appealable to me as a teenager, so I

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Speaker 5: stopped going at the age of them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we know, New York was a little were

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Speaker 2: now in nineteen eighty eighty nine, eighty nine, so yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was kind of the height of the crime wave.

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Speaker 2: Things getting crazy, right, and then you got you had

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Speaker 2: a little altercation and when you were fifteen years old.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was a kid, and you know, once again

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Speaker 5: in Puerto Rico and never witnessed anything that that I've

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Speaker 5: witnessed in the United States and the Bromston particular at

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Speaker 5: this time. And for obvious reasons, the crime rate, the

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Speaker 5: drugs and everything that was happening in this era, it

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Speaker 5: was pretty tough. But you know, I began, you know,

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Speaker 5: my teenage life trying to follow the new trends, wanting

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Speaker 5: to have those sneakers. My family's poor, we can't afford

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Speaker 5: those sneakers, the lottos, the new fashion statements back then.

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Speaker 1: And so I started hanging out with the wrong crowd as.

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Speaker 5: Most teenagers and despite what type of environment they grow up.

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Speaker 5: When you meet your contemporaries at the time and you

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Speaker 5: start acting made into what they liked, well, you know,

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Speaker 5: the music, the style, and I living in the South Bronx,

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Speaker 5: it's that's the environment that I'm acclimating to, where it's crime,

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Speaker 5: it's drugs, it's closed, it's you have to go out

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Speaker 5: and get it.

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Speaker 1: And so I got with this bad crowd, and.

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Speaker 5: You know, the one thing that they used to do

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Speaker 5: is go out there and commit crimes to get what

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Speaker 5: they wanted a shirt, a pair of sneakers and stuff.

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Speaker 5: And unfortunately I knew it was wrong, but I followed

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Speaker 5: and I got caught. One day, my friends committed the

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Speaker 5: robbery as a kid, and they had the wallet. And

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Speaker 5: my friend was older than me at the time, he

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Speaker 5: was seventeen years old. His name is Danny and he

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Speaker 5: died since, but he passed me the wallet and I

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Speaker 5: took the wallet and I put it in my pocket.

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Speaker 5: Had the guy's credit cards, and that was my first

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Speaker 5: interaction with the criminal justice.

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Speaker 1: System. I was caught with credit cards in my pocket.

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Speaker 4: And got probation for that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I got probation.

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Speaker 4: Fifteen years old.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, you weren't a violent guy, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was in No, we're going to go now from time

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Speaker 2: you're fifteen to the time you're twenty, and we're talking

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Speaker 2: about nineteen ninety six. Yes, right, in nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 2: Let's let's paint a picture here. So you're in Florida, Yes, right,

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Speaker 2: And what were you doing in Florida at the time.

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Speaker 4: First of all, which part of Florida were you?

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Speaker 1: I was in Orlando.

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Speaker 5: And the reason why I went over there is, you know,

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Speaker 5: I was a quick learning in life, and you know,

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Speaker 5: I made the mistakes as a teenager. I got in trouble.

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Speaker 5: I had my daughter, and things started dawning on me

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Speaker 5: that I can't live life like this. I have children

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Speaker 5: that take care of I have, you know, a daughter

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Speaker 5: that's going to look up to a dad and a

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Speaker 5: son that's gonna need me there.

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Speaker 1: So I said it's time for me to change. My environment.

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Speaker 5: In New York was in the place the Bronx, especially

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Speaker 5: at the time, was in a place where I had

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Speaker 5: opportunities because I had messed up them opportunities as a child,

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Speaker 5: and I was known in the local precinct as you know,

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Speaker 5: one of these troubled teenagers. And so I wanted to

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Speaker 5: just leave that past and go to Florida and give

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Speaker 5: my family a new life. And you know that's why

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Speaker 5: my plans were.

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Speaker 2: So you went down to Florida to sort of scope

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Speaker 2: it out and try to figure out what kind of

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Speaker 2: opportunities were going to be there.

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Speaker 5: For you exactly, and it's basically you're twenty now, so

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Speaker 5: you're saying, well, I want to Yeah, I want a

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Speaker 5: piece of the American dream. What does that dream look

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Speaker 5: like to me? To me, it looked at like on Florida,

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Speaker 5: you know, Sunshine State, it's a slower speed. And I

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Speaker 5: want folks to understand that I was still young and

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Speaker 5: still immature, so you know, it wasn't beyond me smoking

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Speaker 5: a little marijuana or hanging out in a club. But

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Speaker 5: I wasn't out there, you know, hurting people. And I

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Speaker 5: remember I was in Florida and I was still you know,

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Speaker 5: My biggest issue, and I want people to understand, is

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Speaker 5: that I was dealing with individuals that were still into

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Speaker 5: that lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: So although I was into it.

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Speaker 5: These guys were still doing things that weren't good.

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Speaker 1: And I find out from my.

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Speaker 5: Mother, you know, I call my mother check up as

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Speaker 5: I usually do, my wife and the kids how they're doing.

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Speaker 5: And they're telling me the detectives are looking for you.

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Speaker 5: And I'm like, they were just here just a couple

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Speaker 5: months ago, you know, tell them I'm here, I'm in Florida.

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Speaker 1: They want me, they know where I'm at.

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Speaker 5: She said, well, I told them he was in Florida.

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Speaker 5: They're saying, they're looking for you for a murder. And

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm thinking at the time, my mother, she

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Speaker 5: she knows English, but she's Puerto Rican descent. Maybe she's confused,

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Speaker 5: she's maybe she's confused, right, But then my sister tells

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Speaker 5: me the same thing, and then my wife tells me

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Speaker 5: the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Detectives are looking for you for murder. And then they

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Speaker 1: tell me to day June nineteenth.

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Speaker 4: And you had been in Florida for how long? For

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Speaker 4: a couple of months.

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Speaker 5: I was there from May first that I arrived to

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Speaker 5: Florida all the way to the time that I came

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Speaker 5: back from Florida.

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Speaker 4: So you come back, you're here. They're looking for you, yes,

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Speaker 4: so you come back to New York.

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Speaker 1: June thirtieth.

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Speaker 5: I got on a Greyhound bus and arrived July first,

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Speaker 5: I at six in the morning, and I called my

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Speaker 5: wife and I told her I'm heading home right now.

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Speaker 1: And at this time, me and my wife lived separately.

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Speaker 5: I lived at my parents' house until we had enough

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Speaker 5: money to get on apartment. My wife is living at

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Speaker 5: her parents' house. She was working, so I'm going over

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Speaker 5: to my in law's house to see my kids, see

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Speaker 5: my wife before she went to work. Seven in the morning.

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Speaker 5: I get there and you know, I had to talk

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Speaker 5: with her and I told her, listen, I've never killed

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Speaker 5: no one in my life.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to go to the Bronx.

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Speaker 5: I'll contact the priestsint and I should be home sometime

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Speaker 5: tonight and we'll talk more. And I spent that afternoon.

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Speaker 5: I made breakfast with my kids. I took them to

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Speaker 5: the park, and I told my daughter at the end

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Speaker 5: of the day, and that afternoon before I left to

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Speaker 5: the Bronx that you know, she was crying.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to go with daddy, and I told her

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Speaker 1: I'll be back. I'll be back later.

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Speaker 5: On and I left to go to the Bronx to

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Speaker 5: talk to the police, and I never came back for

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Speaker 5: twenty years.

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Speaker 2: I just got to digest that for a second, left

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Speaker 2: it and after saying goodbye, like any dad would, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I gotta go take care of something. I'll see you later.

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Speaker 2: It's the same thing any dad. Anything that would react

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Speaker 2: a three year old girl. And so you go to

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Speaker 2: the police precinct and you go in there to clear

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Speaker 2: things up.

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Speaker 4: And what happens.

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Speaker 5: Well, first I got to the Bronx, I called the detectives.

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Speaker 5: Detective Charles Krueger picks up the phone. He's from the

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Speaker 5: Robbery Division. He has nothing to do with this homicide.

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Speaker 5: So Charles Krueger tells me listen, they want to talk

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Speaker 5: to you about some homicide that occurred, and one would

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Speaker 5: be the best time.

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Speaker 1: And I told Charles Kruger, well, i'll be in with

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Speaker 1: my lawyers tomorrow.

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Speaker 5: I'll get to the priests and with my lawyers. I

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Speaker 5: didn't commit a crime. I've been in Florida. And he

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Speaker 5: said all right, So I hung up the phone. A

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Speaker 5: half an hour later, the detectives come to my mother's house.

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Speaker 5: So I look at the peak hole and I see

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Speaker 5: the detectives.

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Speaker 1: I opened the door.

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Speaker 5: There's nothing for me to worry about, and I let

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Speaker 5: them in the house. They talked to my mother briefly,

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Speaker 5: and this was Charles Kruger was there, but the main

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Speaker 5: two homicide detectives were offso Martinez and Gary Whittaker where

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Speaker 5: the two detectives. So they come in. Martinez spoke to

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Speaker 5: my mother. Whittaker spoke to me and they said, listen,

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Speaker 5: we just want to ask you questions and relating to

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Speaker 5: this murder, and if you were in Florida, we're going

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Speaker 5: to find out and you're going to be good.

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Speaker 1: And I said, okay, so let's go.

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Speaker 5: And right before we left, they said, but we have

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Speaker 5: to cuff you because this procedure. And my heart like

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Speaker 5: skipped a little bit because I'm saying, wait a minute,

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Speaker 5: I'm leaving with you.

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Speaker 1: Why do you have to put can't cuffs on me.

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Speaker 5: I'm telling you I'm innocent, and I have evidence that

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Speaker 5: I'm leaving with you.

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Speaker 1: It's not like I'm running.

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Speaker 5: I opened the door for you, and when they put

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Speaker 5: them cuffs on me, it gave me a little chill

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Speaker 5: having them cuffs on me.

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Speaker 4: And don't understand that.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I went to the priest and then everything

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Speaker 5: changed in the priest and Detective Whittaker was very amicable.

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Speaker 5: He tried to persuade me telling them the truth, which

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Speaker 5: I was that I was in Florida, would be the

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Speaker 5: best thing. And then Martinez would come in after Whitker

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Speaker 5: would finish this interrogation start that lasted five hours.

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Speaker 1: And he'll tell me, we know you did it.

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Speaker 5: You know you're a murderer and you're going to spend

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Speaker 5: the rest of your life in jail, and if you

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Speaker 5: don't tell me about it, you will never see your daughter.

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Speaker 1: And he's given me this.

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Speaker 5: So after five hours, I said, all right, you want

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Speaker 5: me to write a statement, and he passes me a

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Speaker 5: piece of paper and a pen and I wrote on

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Speaker 5: it and then I passed it back and they were

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Speaker 5: really pissed off of what I wrote. I said, I've

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Speaker 5: never committed a crime. I've never taken someone's life, and

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Speaker 5: God knows this and it is God's will. And that

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Speaker 5: was my exact statement. And that was it. From that

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Speaker 5: moment on. They they they just processed me through the system.

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Speaker 5: I spoke to Detective Silverman, who was in part of

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Speaker 5: the case, which is still a mystery. He was the

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Speaker 5: one showing the witnesses pictures. He was in the homicide detectives.

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Speaker 5: He was not part of the case at all, and

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Speaker 5: he took the statement for me where I gave thirteen

256
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Speaker 5: alibi witnesses. In addition to that, I described where I was,

257
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Speaker 5: the homes, I mean detail from the staircase, the houses

258
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Speaker 5: to the right, the bedroom is here. I gave a

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Speaker 5: detailed description of where I was, the people I was with,

260
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Speaker 5: the phone numbers, phone records, job applications, everything, and they never,

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Speaker 5: not once, they didn't pick up the phone to find

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Speaker 5: out if I was saying the truth.

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Speaker 2: So you're presenting them with basically ironclad evidence, right, There's

264
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Speaker 2: really no other way to describe it. I mean, you

265
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Speaker 2: can't have a better alibi than there were a thousand

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Speaker 2: miles away. Right, It's not like I was at the

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Speaker 2: movies and my sister said she saw me and whatever

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, which is still an alibi.

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Speaker 1: Right, it was impossible.

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Speaker 4: It's impossible. Here you are.

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Speaker 2: Now you're in the system. Now you're in lock up, right,

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Speaker 2: you're waiting for your trial.

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Speaker 4: You got a lawyer.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I'm thinking this will be over in a day.

275
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Speaker 5: You know, they're gonna find out I was in Florida.

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Speaker 1: Is done.

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Speaker 5: So first I talked to the detectives, went through that,

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Speaker 5: talked to the DA, went through that, went through the

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Speaker 5: lineup with a Lloyder named Rudy VELAs. I was picked

280
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Speaker 5: out of the lineup. They finally assigned me a lawyer

281
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Speaker 5: named Joyce Hartsfield. Then I poured out my heart tug

282
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Speaker 5: because it's been more than a week now and I'm saying, hey,

283
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Speaker 5: I don't belong here. You know, my witnesses are in Florida.

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Speaker 5: The evidence is there, everything is there for you. And

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Speaker 5: I reiterated most of the things I did to the detectives,

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Speaker 5: and Joyce Horsfield asked the judge for funds to send

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Speaker 5: an investigator. I'm indigent. I don't have no money for investigators,

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Speaker 5: and so the judge granted the motion.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so now you're good.

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Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be good.

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Speaker 5: It's supposed to work great, Right, you get the evidence,

292
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Speaker 5: you have the investigators going. What happened was that Joyce Harsfield,

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Speaker 5: after a year, I'm telling her, please, you know, find

294
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Speaker 5: these people. She would not answer my letters. She would

295
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Speaker 5: not and to my my please, and I'm desperate. It's

296
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Speaker 5: been Yeah, I've wrote the letters that we have records of.

297
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 5: You know, she was not being she was in contact

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Speaker 5: with me at all. And I'm desperate. I'm in prison.

299
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 5: I'm not seeing my children as much as I would

300
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Speaker 5: like to. I don't belong here, and yes, I know

301
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 5: it's a mistake. I'm dealing with these gang members and

302
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Speaker 5: police officers, and I'm really having a lot of trouble

303
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 5: because you know, I'm twenty years old and I don't

304
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,400
Speaker 5: belong here, and you know, you have to deal with

305
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 5: this volatile environment that you don't belong and and she

306
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:34,960
Speaker 5: would not answer me.

307
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Speaker 4: It's rikers, It's chaos.

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Speaker 5: It's chaos. It's completely chaos. I mean, from the correctional

309
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 5: officers to the inmates. The corruption is just so you know,

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Speaker 5: abhorrent that that you know, I can't even put into

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Speaker 5: the words what I was experiencing.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 5: All I knew is that if I had to talk

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Speaker 5: to my lawyer and my wife, I had to be

315
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Speaker 5: at the mercy of gang bangers and you know, malicious

316
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 5: people that are actually in there for crimes they committed

317
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Speaker 5: and I'm nothing like these people.

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Speaker 1: Just to get to the phone, what do I do

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Speaker 1: to talk to my family?

320
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Speaker 5: And you know, unfortunately it led to a lot of

321
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Speaker 5: fights and tribulations and a lot of victimization. Because I

322
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Speaker 5: don't I don't want people to think that I glamorized that.

323
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Speaker 5: But I've been I've been slashed, I've been stabbed, I've

324
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Speaker 5: been jumped by inmates, and I've had to struggle and

325
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 5: fight and claw my way out that type of environment,

326
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Speaker 5: even correctional offices. I've been brutalized by then. And you know,

327
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Speaker 5: I've stood up because I was in the right. I

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Speaker 5: didn't belong there and I had to suffer that, and

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Speaker 5: you know, my family had to suffer it. But it's

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Speaker 5: it's chaos. It's completely chaos.

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Speaker 2: So your lawyer is not only doing nothing, but also

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Speaker 2: not even returning your calls. Yes, so now what happens?

333
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Speaker 2: Does she eventually come through, investigate through something?

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Speaker 4: What happens next? What leads Let's get up to the trial.

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Speaker 5: This is the amazing part that I saw of learning

336
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Speaker 5: the law, and I had to this.

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Speaker 1: Lady's not defending me.

338
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Speaker 5: So I put in emotion to have a taking off

339
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Speaker 5: my case and giving me another lawyer. The judge does this,

340
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 5: he gives me Stephen Kaiser and so Stephen Kaiser comes in.

341
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 5: He has no clue of what motion has been approved

342
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 5: and denied. He comes in under the belief that the

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00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 5: investigative funds were denied, no investigation.

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Speaker 4: And he never asked you.

345
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Speaker 5: I told him, I mean my witnesses. I mean, here's

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Speaker 5: a year later, and I'm I'm I'm livid. I'm talking

347
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,200
Speaker 5: the same thing for years. I'm innocent. This is where

348
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 5: the evidence is at, these all the people. And he says, well,

349
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Speaker 5: the judge denied the funds for investigators, so I don't

350
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Speaker 5: know nothing.

351
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Speaker 2: So you think now that maybe the first one had

352
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 2: it wrong, yeah, or maybe the judge changed their mind,

353
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,520
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. And now you're dealing with a lawyer,

354
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Speaker 2: who are dealing with two lawyers, both of whom are incompetent. Yes,

355
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 2: and so now so, somehow, amazingly in between the transition

356
00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,720
Speaker 2: from the first lawyer to the second lawyer, information, the

357
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 2: one thing that could have helped you gets lost and

358
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,760
Speaker 2: get screwed up, which is the idea that there was

359
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,560
Speaker 2: money for someone to go to Florida, confirm the alibis

360
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,440
Speaker 2: and come back on a white horse and go very sorry.

361
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Speaker 4: It's all a big mistake. Go home. Let's go find

362
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,480
Speaker 4: the real killer. That's what's supposed to happen.

363
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 1: That's what it's supposed to happen.

364
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Speaker 4: That's not what happened.

365
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:21,679
Speaker 1: That's not what happened.

366
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 4: A right, So what happened now, so now you got

367
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:24,119
Speaker 4: to go to trial.

368
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Speaker 5: Now I got to go to trial with a lawyer

369
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Speaker 5: that's ill prepared to defend me.

370
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Speaker 2: And they're balancing all these other things. They're going to court,

371
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Speaker 2: they're juggling all these.

372
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Speaker 1: Cases, hundreds cases.

373
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Speaker 5: And one thing that I want to add to that,

374
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Speaker 5: which is important. You know, I don't want to make

375
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 5: excuses for these lawyers that misrepresented me, and you know

376
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 5: it's completely appropriate to say that they.

377
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:43,920
Speaker 1: Dropped the ball.

378
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,360
Speaker 5: But before that, the DA gets the case, the police

379
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 5: get the case. So before a lawyer touches your case,

380
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 5: if anybody's going to know whether you're innocent or not,

381
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 5: it's going.

382
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 1: To be the district attorney and the police, if they

383
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:57,360
Speaker 1: do the.

384
00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,399
Speaker 5: Investigative work and the work that they support supposed to

385
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 5: be doing to protect the citizens that they've been sworn

386
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 5: to protect and serve.

387
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,680
Speaker 1: So the DA drops the ball.

388
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 5: Now they give it to these overworked, overstressed lawyers.

389
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,359
Speaker 1: What do you think is going to happen.

390
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,880
Speaker 2: You're in trial and the pressure is incredible. Now your

391
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 2: lawyer gets up. Are there any of the witnesses from

392
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 2: Florida that came up.

393
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,159
Speaker 4: To testify on your behalf?

394
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jeanie SAIDA.

395
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,120
Speaker 5: And John Torres came and the DA said, well, they're

396
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 5: his friends.

397
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,399
Speaker 1: They were life in him.

398
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:43,959
Speaker 5: But what we know now is that the DA was

399
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,399
Speaker 5: telling the jury a lie, that this crime that occur

400
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 5: was not premeditated, that it was coincidental.

401
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,919
Speaker 2: So they testified on your behalf and they're saying, all

402
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 2: these are your friends and say whatever you want. In

403
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 2: the meantime, they came all the way up from Florida

404
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 2: just to lie for you, Okay, whatever. And there were

405
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:00,880
Speaker 2: some eyewitnesses for the prosecution.

406
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was George, George Calaso's best friend. And I

407
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 5: want to get into this because this is very telling

408
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 5: and important for the narrative. Michael Sanchez testified, guy never

409
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 5: met in his life, don't know him, never met him,

410
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 5: don't know his history, his background, We have no connection.

411
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 5: Robert Davis was the second witness. Don't know one, never

412
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 5: seen him in my life. Another independent witness picked my

413
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 5: picture out, picked me out in the lineup, and Jose Diaz,

414
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,639
Speaker 5: another old man had the food truck at the time,

415
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 5: said that he witnessed the shooting. But it's amazing about

416
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,880
Speaker 5: all these three witnesses is that they have all said

417
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,359
Speaker 5: the same thing. At the time, Jose Diaz was deemed

418
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 5: uncredible because when he was asked, did you see the shooter?

419
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 5: They said, he said, yeah, I've seen the shooter. They said,

420
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 5: do you see him in the courtroom. He says, no,

421
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 5: I don't see him in the courtroom. And he says,

422
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 5: but I remember picture that I was shown, and he

423
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 5: said that two times, and that testimony was made obsolete

424
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 5: because now the DA has to shift and say, well,

425
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 5: you know, he initially said it was Richard or picked

426
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 5: out his picture.

427
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: Now he's not saying that.

428
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 5: And so these other two witnesses were allowed to testify

429
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 5: and perjure themselves because now we know both of the

430
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 5: witnesses are saying that why the police told them that

431
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,120
Speaker 5: they had the right guy. That is how I went

432
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,239
Speaker 5: to trial, based on police telling these people, you know,

433
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 5: they write these reports and said they looked at two

434
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 5: hundred pictures. We come to find out now that not

435
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 5: only these three witnesses are saying the police showed them

436
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 5: a pictures.

437
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 1: But there were several witnesses in.

438
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 5: My case that they did not allow us to see,

439
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 5: to interview or to testify my trial.

440
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: And these witnesses said the same thing.

441
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,400
Speaker 5: The police came to them with a picture of one

442
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 5: man and they mentioned that he was somehow connected to Florida.

443
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 1: None of these witnesses ever testified.

444
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 4: Right, And we don't know. I mean, they may have

445
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 4: made some sort of a deal with them.

446
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 5: We don't know that, but we know for a fact

447
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 5: at least this is what we know now. According to

448
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 5: the witnesses, the police told them that's the right guy.

449
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 4: So I want to talk about this for a second.

450
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 4: This is very interesting to me.

451
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,919
Speaker 2: While experts agree to eyewitness testimony is inherently flawed, Americans

452
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 2: and potential jurors continue to place a great deal of

453
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 2: weight in eyewitness testimony. In a two thousand and one

454
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 2: survey of adams the United States funded by the National

455
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 2: Institute of Health sixty three, they found the sixty three

456
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 2: percent of Americans believe that memory works like a video camera,

457
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 2: forty eight percent believe memory is permanent, and thirty seven

458
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 2: percent believe the testimony of a single confident eyewitness should

459
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 2: be enough to convict the criminal defendant. And it should

460
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,679
Speaker 2: be noted that mistaken eyewitness identification was a factor in

461
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 2: over seventy five percent of the nation's DNA exigny.

462
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

463
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 4: I hope that.

464
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: People will remember when they take away, they'll take away

465
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 2: from this podcast that the I was identification. It's something

466
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,719
Speaker 2: that is very orful and it's something that you have

467
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 2: to analyze.

468
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 4: Was this person in a panic mode?

469
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 2: Was it dark, were they across the street, did they

470
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 2: have do they have a motive?

471
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 1: And this person's was there an interior motive?

472
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 5: Because now we're finding out that the main witness, Michael Sanchez,

473
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 5: was sleeping with the young lady that was slapped by

474
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 5: his best friend, George Colaso, two weeks from before the

475
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 5: murder happened. Now this is all speculation, but now we

476
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 5: know that someone came up to Michael Sanchez a week

477
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 5: before the murder and told them we're coming after your friend.

478
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 5: Now we know that the food truck guy saw the

479
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,120
Speaker 5: shooter for more than several hours. Now we know that

480
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 5: another witness is coming and saying, well, this wasn't a

481
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 5: coincidental shooting.

482
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: This wasn't a shooting of two.

483
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 5: People that didn't know each other, because the shooter called

484
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 5: the victim by name.

485
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: We know this now, this.

486
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 5: Back then, so they presented to jury fraud and misrepresentation by.

487
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: Telling them, oh, they don't know each other. This was

488
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: a mistake. Now we know there was a getaway car.

489
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 5: But what they knew back then is that they could

490
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 5: not prove that all those facts fit me. There was

491
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 5: no connection with me. So they had to lie to

492
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 5: the jury. They had to concoct this story to get

493
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 5: a conviction.

494
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: And what we also know that the victim was carrying

495
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: a gun, yes, and that his sister has satisfied or

496
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: set on camera that he began carrying a gun because

497
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: he had been threatened, yes, And because he had slapped

498
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: the girl that you were talking about, and that her

499
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 2: friends or her family had threatened to get him. So again,

500
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 2: if you would follow that trail, you would say, well, maybe,

501
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: I mean, if it would seem to me if I was,

502
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: I would say, let me go, let me go check

503
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 2: that out. That sounds a little dicey to me, you know, like,

504
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: let's go see. But none of that, none of that happened.

505
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: The case ended with my picture again picked out.

506
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 4: That's it, the whole narrative. That's the criminal justice.

507
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 2: We've got to got somebody, they're poor, particularly a person

508
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: of color, and you are basically about to get ground

509
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: up by the gears.

510
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 4: And that's what happened here.

511
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: So you get convicted r Yes, serve twenty years of

512
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 2: a twenty five year life sentence.

513
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 4: Yes, let's talk about the prison experience.

514
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 5: It's a psychological and physical torture. You know, you don't

515
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 5: belong in this place. But now you have to face

516
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 5: the indignations of what being a prison is.

517
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: And with respect to the system.

518
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 5: You know, if you committed a crime, you have to

519
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 5: deal with these security measures. You have to get naked,

520
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 5: you have to show cavity, you know, your butt, you

521
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 5: have to go through cavity searches, you have to have

522
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 5: your family go through searches, and you know, a lot

523
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 5: of indignations. But if you committed a crime and this

524
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 5: is what the system is built for, then a right, fine.

525
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 5: You know, they have to keep the security of the

526
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 5: prison safe. Right, But here is a man that didn't

527
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 5: commit a crime and now I have to go through

528
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 5: the same indignities. I have to deal with users that

529
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 5: at me like a no good citizen, because most prisoners

530
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 5: are considered, you know, people that are not wanted in society,

531
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 5: people that have committed acts against society.

532
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: So here I am amongst these people.

533
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 5: I'm nothing like them, and I'm being treated as such,

534
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 5: being pushed as such, being.

535
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: Put in positions where it's.

536
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 5: Either I have to fight to be able to talk

537
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 5: to my family, to keep the little things that my

538
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 5: family get me, provide me, whether it's some money for commissary.

539
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: And here you have a real hard and.

540
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 5: Murderer and a criminal trying to take what's yours, or

541
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 5: correctional officer coming in his son because he feels that

542
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 5: you're not You're not you're subhuman, you're worthless. They destroy

543
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 5: your property. And now I'm going through these conflicts. I

544
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 5: don't belonging here. And now I'm lashing out. I'm standing up.

545
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 5: It's not even lashing out saying you don't have a

546
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 5: right to do this, you don't have a right to

547
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 5: abuse it me in mad or correctional officers. I stood up,

548
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 5: and you know I bear the scars of it, you know,

549
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 5: physically and internally I bear the scars.

550
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 2: Every little one of those things would seem on the

551
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: outside like a big problem, and there's just one of

552
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 2: one hundred problems.

553
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 5: One of a hundred, because you're starting with your personal safety, yeah,

554
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 5: your personal safety, and you think a correctional office is

555
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 5: going to protect you. And a lot of times the

556
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 5: correction of the officers the one that opens yourself so

557
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 5: that inmate.

558
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: Could get in there and rob your property or you have.

559
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 5: And I want to be upfront with this, not all

560
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 5: correctional officers. For the majority, most of these people are

561
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 5: just wanting to come in, do their job and provide

562
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 5: for their family.

563
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: So I don't want to seem like.

564
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 5: I'm anti corrections because I met some great correctional or

565
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 5: some great men in there that live every day to

566
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 5: just do the best to provide for their family and

567
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 5: do their job with some type of integrity.

568
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: But then you have those more numbers or ulcers that

569
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: you know, and.

570
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 5: Same thing with police officers, the same thing I could

571
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 5: be said about them. For the most part, great individuals.

572
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 5: They're here to protect our people in our communities. But

573
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 5: you have that small percentage that just you know, causes

574
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 5: adverse effect that everybody believes that all correctional ulcers are

575
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 5: like this, and.

576
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 4: I'm with you.

577
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to sound like I'm against

578
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 2: the entire criminal justice system. I'm again, I'm in favor

579
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: of fixing the problems so we don't have to have

580
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: more stories like yours. So let's get to the part

581
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 2: of the exoneration and to the and to what life

582
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: has been like for the last four months on the outside.

583
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: So the day, well, what happened is that the new

584
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: DA came into the Bronx recently, right, and so she

585
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: came in and all of a sudden, your faith turned,

586
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 2: your your luck turn around, everything changed.

587
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: Because I wanted to make sure that people know these stats.

588
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 5: First, Robert Johnson, who was the DA in the Bronx

589
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 5: for twenty seven years and who is now amazingly a judge.

590
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 5: Under his tenor in office, he had the lowest conviction

591
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 5: rate in the Bronx, meaning that murderers land being allowed

592
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 5: to run.

593
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: The streets, Thieves, murderers.

594
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 5: Whatever you want to call criminals were allowed to run

595
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 5: the streets. The conviction rate in the Bronx was the

596
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 5: lowest in the city. But what's telling is the highest

597
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 5: rate of brawn for convictions were in the Bronx and

598
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 5: they didn't have a committee. So you know, in essence,

599
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 5: what this is telling you is that he was in

600
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 5: convicting criminals. He was convicting innocent people. And that's just

601
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 5: a horrible statistic. And now this man.

602
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: Is a judge, right, how do people you know, that's

603
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: like saying the food's bad and the portions are too small, right,

604
00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: I mean you can't.

605
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 4: You're striking out on both sides. Absolutely, that's terrible.

606
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 5: So that's why it's happened with that, and those facts

607
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 5: speak for themselves. But here we are twenty years later,

608
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 5: no one has ever done the investigation in this new

609
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 5: DA says, well, you know what, I want to start

610
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 5: something new. She came into office under a cloud of suspicion.

611
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 5: She wasn't voted in. They pulled the political maneuver the

612
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 5: Democratic Party. Robert Johnson exited through retirement and they left

613
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 5: the voters out and put Darcell Clark in through the

614
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 5: Democratic Party of voting and vetting a person. So now

615
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 5: here she is, she has an opportunity to change these policies,

616
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 5: and she took a bold step and after investigating my

617
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 5: case for the first time in twenty years She sent

618
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 5: investigators to Florida on a Friday.

619
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: I was released on a Wednesday. This is amazing.

620
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 5: This woman investigated my case twenty years later and deemed

621
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 5: that there was enough evidence there innocence to release me.

622
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: So now you're walking out into the fresh air, into

623
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: the sunlight.

624
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 4: What happened then?

625
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: What I felt?

626
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 5: You know? One way, I felt relief be with my

627
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 5: family finally, and you know, in a sudden that you

628
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 5: know that I deserved, you know, and I'm happy.

629
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: I'm with my wife and my children, I'm with my ess.

630
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: Yes they were all there.

631
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 5: But my thing when I came out, I faught a

632
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 5: sense of anger because I you know, I was happy

633
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 5: to be with my family, but it was like I

634
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 5: was like just thrown out into society, and you know,

635
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 5: in a fashion where there was no empathy towards what

636
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 5: I went through other than people want to know what

637
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 5: I felt like.

638
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: But DA's office, no.

639
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 5: One other than my family and you know, individuals like yourself.

640
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: I don't have a job.

641
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 5: I don't you know, have any needs of providing for

642
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 5: my wife and my children. Twenty years later, so I'm

643
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 5: having a hard time reintegrating into a life of having

644
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 5: the work getting back into the workforce. But it's difficult

645
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 5: for me. The transition is still is, but I'm making

646
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 5: the best out of it.

647
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 2: What happened to Richard Rosaria was horrible. He spent twenty years,

648
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: the best years of his life behind bars. When the

649
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: criminal justice system makes a mistake, it's not just the

650
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: individual that gets hurt. It's families, friends, partners, and children.

651
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: Richard's children, Amanda and Richard Jr. Turned their stress and

652
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: creep into music, and I wanted to share this audio

653
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: note and song they made for their dad.

654
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 3: Good one today E fishsh Well, we.

655
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 6: Have to say all of my life I've been hearing

656
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 6: and he's coming home. He's coming home, And I had

657
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 6: so much hope.

658
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: One day it really had gotten to me.

659
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 6: I was right, really, really down, and I was sitting

660
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 6: in our living room and I heard my brother in

661
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 6: his closet playing the piano.

662
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 7: It was like a sad time in the house. So

663
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 7: I was just playing around with keys and I just

664
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 7: ended up coming up with this riff.

665
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 6: The song is about, you know, I wish he was

666
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 6: here for my dance recitles. I wish he was here

667
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 6: for this and for my brother's baseball games to cheer

668
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 6: us on. You know, we have collect calls and we

669
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 6: have letters and all those things, but I wanted to

670
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 6: I want to experience this world and everything that I'm

671
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 6: doing with you. I want you to be able to

672
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 6: enjoy it, not through pictures, but right here physically with Menelet.

673
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 3: Call letter advance. It's together, wish this And I wanted

674
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: to experience this world with you by my side, who

675
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: cheering for me from the side lines.

676
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: Home man, tell me it's gonna.

677
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 8: Be oh oh.

678
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 7: There's no words I can explain that feeling of just

679
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 7: hearing those words that he's coming home.

680
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 6: I was like, you know, don't get your hopes up.

681
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 6: This happens all the time. We think he's coming home.

682
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 6: And that was the craziest moment of my life.

683
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 7: And he's always showed love, and now that he's al,

684
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 7: he's done it to the high extent that every day

685
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 7: I went to wake up and to see his face

686
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 7: every day.

687
00:33:48,240 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 3: I think this is supposed too much. Click and letters,

688
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 3: short vines together, whish this would him?

689
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 9: Every collects let her short VISs together.

690
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 3: Wish this would and every night I wanted to experience

691
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: this world with.

692
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 9: You bumba side here.

693
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 3: You cheered for me from the sidelines, homie and tell

694
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 3: me it's gonna be oh ye oh, won't you place?

695
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 3: Come and night from me aunt Hommie time through the

696
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 3: dark see the light, won't you please God night?

697
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: Won't you please?

698
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 3: Home to night from me in your arms home meet time.

699
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 3: The more the darknessy the light you please. I wanted

700
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 3: to experience this world.

701
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 9: Whether you buy my side here, you t inform me

702
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 9: from the side line home me and tell me.

703
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 4: It's gonna be ah.

704
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: Ohnan to experience this world.

705
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: Don't forget to give us a fantastic review. Wherever you

706
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, it really helps. And I'm a proud

707
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: donor to the Innocence Project and I really hope you'll

708
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: join me in supporting this very important cause and helping

709
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: to prevent future wrongs. Go to Innisonsproject dot org to

710
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: learn how to donate and get involved. I'd like to

711
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 2: thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The

712
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: music in the show is by three time OSCAR nominated

713
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 2: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram

714
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: at Wrongful Conviction and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast.

715
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 2: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm is a production of Lava

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00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 2: for Good podcasts and association with Signal Company Number one