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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust Me, Trust trust Me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lied to you, I've never live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to Trust Me. The podcast about cults and

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Speaker 2: extreme belief and manipulation from two public schoolgirls who've actually

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Speaker 2: experienced it.

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Speaker 4: I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: I was actually partially a homeschool girl, so not entirely accurate. Today.

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Speaker 2: Our guest is Amanda Ray, host of YouTube channel by

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Speaker 2: the same name, and former member of the Kingston Clan

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Speaker 2: also known as the Order, a polygamous group in Utah.

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Speaker 2: Some of you may remember our guests Priscilla from the

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Speaker 2: same group. It's not the FLDS. Both of these ladies

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Speaker 2: were on escaping polygamy, so you might recognize them. Amanda's

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Speaker 2: going to tell us who the Kingstons are, how many

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Speaker 2: mothers she had in her family, and the principle of

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Speaker 2: pure Kingston blood that led to people sometimes intermarrying with relatives,

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Speaker 2: some of whom were underage girls.

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Speaker 1: She'll tell us about how her two years of public

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Speaker 1: school helped her think critically about what the cults said

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Speaker 1: about outsiders and people of color versus the reality that

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Speaker 1: they were just normal people, how children as young as

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Speaker 1: nine are sent to work after school, and why the

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Speaker 1: day she left began with the physical altercation with a

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Speaker 1: grown man and the group.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I feel like we barely scratched the surface. There's

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Speaker 2: so much. There's so much, but it's it's good. It's good.

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Speaker 2: We'll have her back on.

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Speaker 5: She she really needs to come back on.

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Speaker 1: She's wonderful and what a treasure chest full of stories

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Speaker 1: that are unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Really also great at makeup, just like Priscilla. What is

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Speaker 2: it with these cad and.

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Speaker 1: Girls like the they're so good at makeup?

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Speaker 5: Make up? Teach me.

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Speaker 2: I've been doing the same makeup for literally twenty years,

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Speaker 2: and I just get worse than a cat I every

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Speaker 2: day of my life, Like it's like reverse learning.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so wonderful at makeup, and just a wonderful person

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Speaker 1: with a really wild story.

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Speaker 5: So love this interview.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, before we get into the interview, Megan, what's your

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Speaker 2: culties thing this week?

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry she's moving her cat, guys, So, I mean,

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Speaker 6: I'm sure you're hearing a lot about the Ruby Frankel

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Speaker 6: documentaries that are being released about the Mormon blog influencer,

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Speaker 6: the YouTube woman who's just her abuse is like off

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Speaker 6: the scale, and I've been looking into it and reading it,

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Speaker 6: and it's it's worse than you thought, Like because I'd

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Speaker 6: seen footage of the little boy who finally like broke

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Speaker 6: free from the other woman Jodie's home, and he's completely starved,

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Speaker 6: like wrapped, his wounds are all wrapped in tape, and

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Speaker 6: you're like, oh my gosh, this is insane. But then

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Speaker 6: you keep watching and it gets worse and wre source

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Speaker 6: and crazier and crazier. So I suggest people take a

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Speaker 6: look into that just to see a tadbit of how things.

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Speaker 1: Can get really out of control. And then I was

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Speaker 1: also just thinking about how Amanda's story kind of parallels

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Speaker 1: some of my own and weird ways. Definitely was not

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Speaker 1: living in a family that was like in breeding itself

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Speaker 1: or anything. But I was really lucky that the two

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Speaker 1: by twos, the group that I grew up and allowed

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Speaker 1: us to go to public school and allowed us to

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Speaker 1: go to go to school. And the whole point of

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Speaker 1: it was like, you have to be this verse in

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Speaker 1: the Bible, in the world, but not of the world.

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Speaker 4: So Amish people were wrong.

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Speaker 1: Because they were wearing these outfits and being so pure,

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Speaker 1: but they weren't in the world. They were hiding in

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Speaker 1: a little farm. So you needed to look like that

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Speaker 1: and act like that, and then you needed to get

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Speaker 1: on the bus and go to public school and show

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Speaker 1: everybody what Jesus liked.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't to convert people.

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Speaker 1: It was just if you it was a dream that

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Speaker 1: people would say, you're so different, what is it about

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Speaker 1: you that's making me feel this urge of asking you?

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Speaker 5: And but that's not how it went.

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Speaker 1: People would be like, flesh yourself down the toilet, you

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Speaker 1: stupid bitch, Like you're a weirdout. So yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if for the second week in a row, I've

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Speaker 1: just given two cultius things, but those are just what's

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Speaker 1: been weighing on my heart this week. As the two

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Speaker 1: by twos would say.

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Speaker 2: As many culty things as you want, endless goldy.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there are like multiple Ruby Frankel and this

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Speaker 1: YouTube family blogger stuff coming out right now that everybody's

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Speaker 1: talking about. And I can only assume that we're going

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Speaker 1: to see a bazillion more families, religious or not, coming

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Speaker 1: out about how abusive their YouTube family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, anyway, that's what's been laid on my heart

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Speaker 1: this week. As the two by twos would say, what

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Speaker 1: about you, Lola, what's the cultiest thing that happened to

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Speaker 1: you this week?

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Speaker 2: Okay, I swear I will not do this every week,

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Speaker 2: but because we would, this would get very exhausting every week.

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Speaker 2: But I do want to mention some things that are

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Speaker 2: happening in the administration because speaking a cult eat, I mean,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, so okay, so what oc cults do? They

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Speaker 2: control information, They silence dissent, They shrink the world so

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Speaker 2: that only they are the ones with access to the

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Speaker 2: correct information. Politically speaking, this would look like silencing people

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Speaker 2: who are critical of them. It would look like eliminating

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Speaker 2: dissenting thought in various forms. We talked about that in

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Speaker 2: our Cultural Revolution episode how intellectuals were targeted and teachers

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Speaker 2: were targeted, and that kind of thing that's very, very

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Speaker 2: common and fascist regimes, which I know is a buzzword,

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Speaker 2: but just stay with me here. So I'm just gonna

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Speaker 2: go down a little list here of some things because

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Speaker 2: it's pretty overwhelming, and I'm okay. The White House banned

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Speaker 2: the Associated Press indefinitely. They took control of what press

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Speaker 2: is and is not allowed in the daily presidential press pool,

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Speaker 2: which is breaking precedent of many years. One of the

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Speaker 2: reasons for the White House Correspondences Association to be in

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Speaker 2: charge of those decisions is because we are supposed to

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Speaker 2: have a free press, not just a mouthpiece for whoever's

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Speaker 2: in charge. When the president is in charge of the

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Speaker 2: press pool, then they can make sure that there aren't

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Speaker 2: people there asking them questions, challenging what they're doing. Right,

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Speaker 2: the Trump administration has decided that DEI is this broad

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Speaker 2: evil to be rooted out. They're calling woke ideology the

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Speaker 2: pressing issue of our nation, not healthcare, not protecting our people,

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Speaker 2: not keeping billionaires out of politics. It's wokeness, guys. It's

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Speaker 2: the biggest issue of our time. And because they have

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Speaker 2: decided to target woke ideology, which we could talk about

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Speaker 2: the reasons for why that is. But my theory is power.

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Speaker 2: But this specter of DEI as an evil to be

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Speaker 2: rooted out has now become the focus. And one of

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Speaker 2: the ways it's become a focus is in science. So

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Speaker 2: they have banned a whole long list of words or

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Speaker 2: flagged them for review because they could be too woke

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Speaker 2: in research papers. Those words include female, black, LGBTQ, climate, ethnicity, gender,

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Speaker 2: historically women, biases, trauma, confirmation, bias, and so many more.

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Speaker 2: And I've spoken to several actual scientists about this, one

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Speaker 2: of whom his research paper was pulled because it referred

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Speaker 2: to it was studying transgender mental health. I've also spoken

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Speaker 2: to neuroscientists who have absolutely nothing to do with absolutely

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Speaker 2: anything related to any of these topics, and research like

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Speaker 2: as a whole is just basically like shrinking and closing off,

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Speaker 2: and everyone's panicking and things are getting closed. And that's

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Speaker 2: partially for a couple of different reasons. But one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons is no one's research is able to get

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Speaker 2: through because it's virtually impossible to have healthcare research where

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Speaker 2: you don't use words like bias or gender because the

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Speaker 2: whole purpose of science is to have to make sure

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Speaker 2: that there isn't bias, right, that's the whole point of science. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: studying and learning about a group that exists, whether you're

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Speaker 2: interested in learning about that group or not, is not indoctrination.

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Speaker 2: But purging information because it doesn't align with how you

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Speaker 2: see the world is in doctrination that is closing off

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Speaker 2: the access to education and different information. It's ironic to

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Speaker 2: be claiming to be fighting in doctrination and ideology when

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Speaker 2: what you're actually doing is removing science, information, education ideas

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Speaker 2: that differ from yours. And finally, Trump has been calling

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Speaker 2: pro Palestine protests illegal. Protests are quite explicitly legal. They

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Speaker 2: are protected by the First Amendment. I'm happy to read

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Speaker 2: that language, but we don't need to do that here.

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Speaker 2: Peaceful protesting is legal in this country. It's a First

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Speaker 2: Amendment right now. A Palestinian graduate of Columbia University who

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Speaker 2: lives here legally has green cart and has been charge

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Speaker 2: of no crimes, was taken from his home by ICE

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Speaker 2: agents on a State Department order, and the agents hung

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Speaker 2: up on his lawyer. They took him anyway. Whatever you

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Speaker 2: think about the protests, This is extremely dangerous. It's an

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Speaker 2: extremely dangerous president. It is silencing politically different ideas without

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Speaker 2: actually there being a crime. You cannot just take people

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Speaker 2: because you don't like what they're saying. You just can't

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Speaker 2: do that. Not legally, you cannot do that.

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Speaker 5: You can in North Korea?

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Speaker 2: Right, do we want to live in North Korea?

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Speaker 3: Exactly? Do we? So?

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Speaker 2: Does punishing press want saying what you want them to say?

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Speaker 2: Removing research that talks about topics you don't like, broadly

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Speaker 2: banning words that aren't in line with your particular ideology,

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Speaker 2: and arresting protesters who have not actually committed a crime

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Speaker 2: and threatening to arrest many more sound like it's in

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Speaker 2: line with not a cult or democracy, Because I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like something a cult government would do te me.

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Speaker 2: So that's that's my rant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very curious to see where all of this

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Speaker 1: will I mean curious is the wrong word.

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Speaker 5: I'm very terrified to.

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Speaker 1: See where all of this is going to go.

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Speaker 2: And here's my obligatory for anyone who might be like, not,

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Speaker 2: you know, politically aligned with me, like of course, the

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Speaker 2: left has had culty moments, and culturally there's been very

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Speaker 2: culty elements happening here, and I'm not going to deny

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Speaker 2: that for a second. But it's cultural cultiness is very

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Speaker 2: different from federal government actually controlling your life cultiness. These

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Speaker 2: are two very different things, and they're both a problem,

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Speaker 2: but one is much more of a problem. That's my point.

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Speaker 5: Yeah's much more culty.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, to be determined out as how bad it

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Speaker 1: will get.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, should we talk to Amanda Now, let's do it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Amanda Ray to trust me finally, Yay, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for being here. I've known you for years

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Speaker 2: and we have not done this before, which is crazy.

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Speaker 2: So can you for our listeners who do not know

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Speaker 2: who the Kingston Clan is, can you give just like

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Speaker 2: a brief overview of what this group is that you

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Speaker 2: were in.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so I was born in it, but obviously like

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Speaker 3: in the later years because it was in the nineties

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Speaker 3: when I was born. It was actually started though in

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Speaker 3: nineteen thirty five, so it's been around for a while.

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Speaker 3: But the short version of what the Order is is

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Speaker 3: there kind of an offshoot of you know, the original

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Speaker 3: person who started the Order was LDS and it's when

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Speaker 3: the Utah was trying to become a state, so they

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Speaker 3: had to like outlaw polygamy and so kind of a

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Speaker 3: lot of a lot of offshoots came around at this time,

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Speaker 3: like FLDS, AUB the LeBaron Group, right, so, and the

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Speaker 3: Kingston's was one of them, and it originally wasn't supposed

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Speaker 3: to be a religion, but it kind of evolved into

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Speaker 3: a you know, God's kingdom on earth. And the main

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Speaker 3: core principles of the teachings are consecration, which is give

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Speaker 3: your all to the Lord. So they signed ten percent

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Speaker 3: forms inventory forms that means that everything they owned could

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Speaker 3: potentially be given up right. And of course the ten

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Speaker 3: percent forms means that because the banks are in the

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Speaker 3: order like everyone puts their money in a in the

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Speaker 3: order bank, the ten percent is automatically taken out of everything.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, its banks accounts too. We're also my gosh,

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Speaker 3: yeah gosh. So there's that piece. And then I think,

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Speaker 3: obviously the most like thing that makes people want to

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Speaker 3: watch the Kingston Clan, I feel like is the incest

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Speaker 3: is one of the biggest ones where like wait a minute,

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Speaker 3: because you'll hear like FLDS, maybe Mary's cousins, you'll hear

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Speaker 3: that a lot, but in the order the leader is

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Speaker 3: marrying his half sisters and nieces. So wow, it's very big,

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Speaker 3: including my dad. His third wife is his half sister,

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Speaker 3: so my mom was the second. Yeah, I know. I

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Speaker 3: always have the joke of like, so he married three wives.

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Speaker 3: The first wife is my mom's sister, and the third

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Speaker 3: wife is his half sister.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, how many people are in this group?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 5: Is that?

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Speaker 1: Why is there a shortage of people? Is that why

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Speaker 1: we're intermarrying.

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Speaker 3: I think that's why it is common that you'll see

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Speaker 3: in all polygamous groups in Utah, there's gonna be some

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Speaker 3: family marrying, cousin marrying because one like they no one

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Speaker 3: really wants, especially a woman. Is a woman really going

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Speaker 3: to join this? Probably not right, So there is. And

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Speaker 3: then you'll see a lot of men unmarried in their

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Speaker 3: like thirties and forties because if they're not kingston enough,

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Speaker 3: they're not going to be like awarded a wife, right,

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's hard to convert. And also they're not

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Speaker 3: they're not like LDS where the LDS have the missionaries

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Speaker 3: trying to convert people. They kind of at least what

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Speaker 3: I was taught was that we were kind of chosen

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Speaker 3: in heaven. It was like a pre chosen decision that

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Speaker 3: we got to be born on the kingdom in the

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Speaker 3: Kingdom on Earth. Right. So, but as a woman's duty

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Speaker 3: in the order in the Kingdom on Earth is like

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Speaker 3: you're prepped from I remember in like as early as

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Speaker 3: first grade, they're telling us to pray for our direction

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Speaker 3: of the person that we're supposed to be married to,

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Speaker 3: like our number one choice. So we're all like praying

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Speaker 3: and hoping that like if you're if you had best friends,

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Speaker 3: and it's so weird. A lot of us have memories

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Speaker 3: of this. If you have best friends, you're like praying

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Speaker 3: that heavenly Father will let you marry your best friend's

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Speaker 3: husbands so you'll be best friends forever.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I mean I hear that slumber party, like little

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Speaker 1: Nugget in there where I would do the exact same thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like let's get married to the same guy be together forever.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So first grade already like praying for that man.

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Speaker 3: Right, And of course once you go through puberty you

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Speaker 3: think of it a little different, right, You're like, wait

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Speaker 3: a minute, get away from my man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Wait, So you said there'd be men

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Speaker 2: who'd be unmarried, but it would be because these other

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Speaker 2: men were like taking all the women, so like was

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Speaker 2: it punishment to not bestow them a wife?

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Speaker 3: To be honest, I think that this is just like

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Speaker 3: from what I've seen and from what I've heard from

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Speaker 3: older generation members who have left, it seems as though

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Speaker 3: because they teach the whole are our bloodline is pure

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Speaker 3: and directly descended of Christ, like we are we are

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Speaker 3: descendants of Jesus Christ. So it feels like they're kind

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Speaker 3: of almost like a cult within a cult and racist

296
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Speaker 3: against their own members, Like if you're not as pure

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Speaker 3: blood Kingston as us, then you shouldn't be awarded a wife.

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Speaker 3: And you would always see the marrying up the bloodline,

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Speaker 3: like because I'm technically Kingston, I was going to have

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Speaker 3: to marry a more Kingston man.

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Speaker 2: What would that look like? What does that mean?

302
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Speaker 3: So he they actually had me going out with this guy, Like, uh,

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Speaker 3: it's this process of coming forward. So he has to

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Speaker 3: you know, get direction from God or whatever, and then

305
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Speaker 3: go to his parents and then get approval, and then

306
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Speaker 3: go to my parents get approval and then they can

307
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Speaker 3: come forward, which means they're allowed to like kind of

308
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Speaker 3: like take you on a day, but you're not allowed

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Speaker 3: to kiss, hold hands, any of that stuff, and they

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Speaker 3: just kind of present themselves as a choice for marriage

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Speaker 3: for you. But in my case, I really felt like

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Speaker 3: I was just being forced to be with this guy

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Speaker 3: because I had vocalized that I didn't want to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, married to him, especially because his parents, so

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Speaker 3: he was so closely related to me because his mom

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Speaker 3: is my dad's full sister and his dad was my

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Speaker 3: dad's half sister.

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Speaker 2: So his parents, his mom would say it again, his.

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Speaker 3: Mom and my dad were full siblings, okay, and then

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Speaker 3: his dad and my dad were half siblings, so that

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Speaker 3: was yeah, his mom and dad are half siblings with

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Speaker 3: the same dad, different moms.

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Speaker 2: So he's cousin.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so my kids would definitely have like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: I thought, like deformities for sure.

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Speaker 4: God, yeah, were there a lot of deformities there.

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Speaker 3: So from what I saw, like, I feel like the

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Speaker 3: physical stuff was less than you would think. Like I

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Speaker 3: remember being a TA in the private school of the

330
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Speaker 3: church and I saw a girl with who was born

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Speaker 3: with a missing ear. There were little things like that,

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Speaker 3: but they did start to do blood testing to see

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Speaker 3: who was compatible with who. So I think over the

334
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Speaker 3: years of that, you it was mostly just internal issues.

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Speaker 3: There wasn't as many physical issues. Do you think if

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Speaker 3: you're if you're in breeding that much, you're going to

337
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Speaker 3: see a lot of physical issues, which I think they

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Speaker 3: did when Ortel was in leadership. So Ortel was before Paul.

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Speaker 3: He's are my grandpa, Paul's dad, and he his first

340
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Speaker 3: wife was the first case of incest that we know of.

341
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Speaker 3: His first wife was his niece, and he could never

342
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Speaker 3: They could never have babies to full term, and he

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Speaker 3: ended up marrying like three of her sisters and only

344
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Speaker 3: one of them could actually have kids. But they had

345
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Speaker 3: a lot of issues. So I think that's when the

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Speaker 3: blood testing was born, because they're like, wait, why why

347
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Speaker 3: can't we have because the orders, like their numbers grow

348
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Speaker 3: just because they're having so many babies so fast, like

349
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Speaker 3: the fate, and you get married and you have a

350
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Speaker 3: baby every year until you can't anymore, you know, right.

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Speaker 2: I love that his response to not being able to

352
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Speaker 2: have a baby with his niece was to try multiple

353
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Speaker 2: other nieces and think that that would solve the problem.

354
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Speaker 3: Good thinking, right, so so stupid, And I think that

355
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Speaker 3: his logic was literally, like my bloodline really is so great.

356
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Speaker 3: So I'm supposed to marry a bunch of my own

357
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Speaker 3: family because we're we need to keep this bloodline pure.

358
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Speaker 2: Oh it's so creepy, right, So so why is this

359
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 2: is the weirdest question. Why is your bloodline not pure?

360
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Speaker 3: My woodman?

361
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Speaker 2: Yeah?

362
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Speaker 5: Yeah, Like why did you need to be more Kings? Yeah?

363
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Speaker 3: Well no, that's what's weird is you'll see all of

364
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 3: the Kingston's marrying more Kingston, Like you'll never see a woman,

365
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Speaker 3: like rarely ever would you see a woman marrying down

366
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Speaker 3: the bloodline. And usually it was if she fought and

367
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 3: was like going to lead to the order, and then

368
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Speaker 3: they were like okay, we'll go okay because they don't

369
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Speaker 3: want to lose a woman because that's that's technically to them.

370
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Speaker 3: One woman is like nine babies that they could have

371
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Speaker 3: had plus.

372
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Speaker 2: But so your dad is like more of an indirect

373
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Speaker 2: descendant of the leadership, Like what is it?

374
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Speaker 3: So yeah, he's half half brothers to the leader, but

375
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Speaker 3: so his dad is the leader before, so he is Kingston.

376
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Speaker 3: That's pure okay, because the bad that I was like

377
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 3: supposed to be with he was like my age, like yeah,

378
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Speaker 3: probably a year older than me. So marrying up, I

379
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 3: guess just means like like the Kingston How do I

380
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 3: explain this? The Kingston girls are preserved and saved for

381
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,400
Speaker 3: the Kingston boys, the higher up Kingston's, so that they

382
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 3: can keep that bloodline pure, because it's gonna taint and

383
00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 3: muddy up the blood to give a Kingston girl to

384
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Speaker 3: a non Kingston man. It's kind of like royal bloodline,

385
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,120
Speaker 3: have you you know.

386
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Speaker 2: How Oh you're just you're just saying to marry a

387
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 2: Kingston and not a non Kingston.

388
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Speaker 3: Well, but the Kingston boy that I was supposed to

389
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,680
Speaker 3: doing was more Kingston. Does that make sense?

390
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: Because because your dad was a half brother to a

391
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: Kingston and this boy was like full Kingston.

392
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Speaker 3: Because because both parents were Kingston.

393
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Speaker 5: Okay, got it?

394
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Speaker 2: Okay, took us a minute, Wow.

395
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 5: Okay, okay.

396
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 4: So they were like, here's a full Kingston.

397
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Speaker 5: You're welcome.

398
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: Here.

399
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 3: He is double Kingston for you. Okay.

400
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, So and everyone else is like a mud blood.

401
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's literally what it feels that way, especially because

402
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 3: you'll see where if there is a man who so

403
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 3: there's a lot of families where if you watch the

404
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 3: show Skating Pulling Me, surely she was on there and

405
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 3: she is technically handsome. So the handsome girls would get married,

406
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 3: but the Hanson boys had a really hard time getting married.

407
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 3: So Hanson was like mudblood right because they did not

408
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 3: have Kingston in their bloodline. So the girls would they

409
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 3: want the girls, but get the boys away from their women.

410
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 5: I think I remember that on that show.

411
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 1: They like sent them like kind of ostracized them to

412
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 1: a point where a lot of them would be leaving.

413
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 3: It's interesting to see when you have the hands and

414
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,479
Speaker 3: men's and the handsOn men are like around the women, right,

415
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 3: the Kingston women, and then all of a sudden, like

416
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 3: the leader will have like a direction from the Lord

417
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 3: and say, hey, Hanson man, we actually have a job

418
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 3: for you out in Idaho in the middle of nowhere,

419
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 3: and you're gonna get paid like ten dollars an hour.

420
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 3: It's a great opportunity push them over there to get

421
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 3: them away from the Kingston women, so they would Actually,

422
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 3: you'd see this happen a lot where even like the

423
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 3: potato farm in Idaho, it's it's raud by the Browns,

424
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 3: which are less Kingston. So they would be pushing them

425
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 3: out to the mine and the farms and the you

426
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,400
Speaker 3: know in the potato farmer in Idaho because they didn't

427
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 3: want them tainting up the kings and bloodline. But they

428
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 3: would they would frame it as like this is a

429
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,199
Speaker 3: wonderful opportunity from the Lord, and they of course, and

430
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 3: then you're doing this right. They want to be pleasing

431
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 3: the Lord so that they can be awarded the wife.

432
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: But in a way, it's it's so that they can't

433
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 3: get the wife.

434
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Speaker 2: So can you talk to us a little bit about

435
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 2: your childhood and what just day to day life was

436
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 2: like for a little girl in the Kingston Clan or

437
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 2: the Order what did you guys call it?

438
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 3: I mean, we called it the order. We ordered. We

439
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 3: called ourselves order members.

440
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 5: Okay, so that was like.

441
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 3: Our term Kingston Clan was kind of coined from the

442
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,919
Speaker 3: outside outsiders. Okay, okay, yeah, but yeah, so we call

443
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 3: our self Order members. And as I said, in like

444
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,359
Speaker 3: first grade, we were praying about who we're gonna get

445
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: direction on for our number one choice. My mom was

446
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 3: or is the second of three wives. But as a

447
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 3: as a young kid, I didn't know who my dad

448
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 3: was because they lied to me about it. Because my

449
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 3: mom was the second wife. We were like the secret family, right,

450
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 3: So I would see my dad with the first wife,

451
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 3: which is my mom's older sister, and I would see

452
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 3: all of their kids calling him dad, and so I

453
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 3: was like, who's my dad? Then I don't understand, and

454
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: then I asked him. I remember asking him if he

455
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 3: was my dad and he said no, and so I'm like, well,

456
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 3: the who the hell is my dad?

457
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 2: Yeah?

458
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 3: But he would come over to our house still like

459
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 3: a dad would, but we were not allowed to call

460
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: him dad, who called him by his first name.

461
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: This isn't like the FLDS where you have all these

462
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 2: families living together in these like enormous houses, right, families

463
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 2: are living in separate homes. And was that on purpose

464
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 2: or just because you lived in Salt Lake and it

465
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: would be impossible to get a five story home in

466
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 2: Salt Lake?

467
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 3: Like the order has been. From what I have seen,

468
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 3: they try really hard to be integrated into society and

469
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 3: kind of look like they are normal, which I've done

470
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: a pretty good job of doing that. Like they blend

471
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 3: in pretty well with society. And I think it's for

472
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 3: money gained, for opportunities for businesses, right, And they their

473
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 3: location is technically is it technically Salt Lake? It's like

474
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 3: rudyed road like bordering Salt Lake West Valley area. Okay,

475
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 3: so they were very like when the raids were happening

476
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,639
Speaker 3: and people were actually getting prosecuted for living polygamy. I

477
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 3: think that they just took the measures to be very

478
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 3: very careful and so they had you know, I mean,

479
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 3: I think there's like one family that all lives in

480
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 3: one home in the order, but it's very rare that

481
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 3: you'll see that. And I think that it's one to

482
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 3: protect themselves, right, Like because my mom she's on food

483
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 3: stemps shell. A lot of these women get a state

484
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 3: help and so if the state's coming in, you have

485
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 3: to get looked at. Your home has to be looked

486
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 3: at to see if you can qualify, see what the

487
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: state of the home is in. So I remember the

488
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 3: lady coming and checking our home, which was crazy. My

489
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 3: mom had pictures of my dad everywhere. But like she

490
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 3: claimed that, they claimed that they don't know who the

491
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 3: father is so that they can get these benefits. But

492
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 3: just imagine if they had homes full of kids and

493
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: a bunch of wives, that would look a little suspicious,

494
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 3: right right, right, So I think part of it is

495
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 3: that they want to kind of come off as a

496
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 3: single family home. But then I also think that it

497
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 3: benefits the leader to have all of these homes because

498
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: they're all going to be in the order's name. No

499
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: one leaves the home, and a lot of times no

500
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 3: one even gets to have the home on their name

501
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: under their name. Wow, so it's beneficial for them. But yeah,

502
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 3: you'll see. You'll see like a single mom with a

503
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 3: bunch of kids at the home, and then the dad

504
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 3: would rotate. So like my dad, he had three wives,

505
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 3: so we would see him every third night, right unless

506
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: it was my mom's birthday, or there was some type

507
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: of you know party, going on a vacation, or the

508
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 3: other wives were mad at him and told them to

509
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 3: get out of their house.

510
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 2: Happened a lot. How many siblings do you have, like

511
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: full siblings?

512
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, my mom had ten kids, so I have five

513
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: brothers and forces I'm the second oldest. And then my

514
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 3: dad had I think he has thirty two kids right

515
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 3: now or thirty three.

516
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: How many of them do you have a relationship with.

517
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 3: My closest is the obviously, like the ones that left.

518
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: So I have my older sister who left around the

519
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: same time as me. She was married in the group

520
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 3: and then kind of got pushed out because she didn't

521
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: want to look at me, and there was a long

522
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: story with her, but we left it the same year,

523
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 3: and then my younger sister left on the show Rachel

524
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 3: and then my younger brother also left on the show

525
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 3: at school. And then actually just last year, we had

526
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: my younger brother, Jake. He's ten years younger than me,

527
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: but he came out just last year. So those the

528
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 3: five of us, we've been really bonding over the trauma.

529
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you had.

530
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 3: Briscilla on here, right, Yeah. Yeah, she probably mentioned that

531
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 3: when you leave, they really do cut you off. And

532
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 3: because I was one of the first to leave in

533
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 3: my family, like the I wasn't allowed home for Christmas,

534
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: it wasn't home for Thanksgiving. It was like I was

535
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 3: I was dead to the family. My eighteenth birthday came

536
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: around the corner after I left, and I thought that

537
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 3: my mom was going to bring my siblings, and she

538
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 3: showed up alone with a gift. The gift was a

539
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 3: photo album of all of my siblings and she told

540
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 3: me that you basically won't ever see them again unless

541
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 3: you come back any order.

542
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

543
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: I was like, literally ride, Yeah, what does that feel

544
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: like to be eighteen years old and alone like that.

545
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: It was hard, especially when your whole life you were

546
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: surrounded by the noise of your siblings. Right. It's such

547
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: a eerie, weird feeling to go from always having someone

548
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 3: around you, always having noise, always hearing a baby crying

549
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 3: or like laughing, to being alone in an apartment and

550
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 3: there's like silence. Now I love silence, but at the time,

551
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: it was like I needed to turn like a TV

552
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 3: on or something anxiety to be alone and in silence.

553
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Yeah, that seems crazy. So you went

554
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: to public school like for a couple of years, right, Yeah.

555
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 3: You liked it. I went to it was a junior

556
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 3: high for seventh I think it was seventh and eighth,

557
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 3: and then we moved. And it was because at the time,

558
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 3: so I had been going to the Orders private school,

559
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 3: which is ends iin learning center, but they only had

560
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: that up to grade five or five or six, and

561
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 3: then they were working on the junior high in high school.

562
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 3: So a lot of kids would just do homeschool at

563
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: this point, and which is what they put me in.

564
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 3: They put me in home school at fifth grade, and

565
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 3: I was basically teaching myself, like there was no teacher.

566
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: My mom would just be like, hey, go into the

567
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: basement and learn, and I'm like, okay, I don't know

568
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: how to do that. So oh my god. Literally like

569
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: it was K twelve, fifth and sixth grade, which I understand,

570
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: like if the parents are involved, K twelve is a

571
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: good program. But if the parents are just throwing the

572
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: kids downstairs, like how come you're not learning the right,

573
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: it's not going to be Yeah. Then eventually my mom

574
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: was like, okay, well my kids need to go to

575
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 3: school because they're not learning. So we went to junior

576
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 3: high school. It was literally all the way on the

577
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: other side of time. It took an hour to get there,

578
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 3: and we would take the UTA bus, me and my

579
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: older sister, and then we had cousins next door that

580
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 3: would take like help us get there. They were cousins

581
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: on the outside, but like it was weird. They their

582
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 3: grandpa left polygamy and they almost were members of the Order,

583
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: and I think the Order was still trying to get

584
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 3: them to join, but they were so it was like

585
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: okay to be friends with them anyway, So we went

586
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: all the way to school together with them an hour

587
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: every single day and I'm so grateful for that experience

588
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 3: because it gave me such a different perspective. Like, but

589
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: up until this point, the order was really all I knew.

590
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: We are the true Kingdom of God upon the earth,

591
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 3: and everybody else's sinners, right, And then I go and

592
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 3: at this point too, like I was taught the story

593
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 3: of you know, why only white people will be in heaven,

594
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 3: which I don't know for sure.

595
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 2: That story I don't remember, but did you know, I

596
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: don't think.

597
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: So, tell me this sounds familiar then, Okay, So we

598
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: were taught that there was a great war in heaven

599
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 3: and Jesus and Lucifer were fighting basically, and Lucifer's was

600
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,719
Speaker 3: saying that, like, we just need to force everyone to

601
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 3: do the right thing and then they'll all go to heaven.

602
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 3: And then Jesus was saying, no, we need to give freedom,

603
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: and so us great white people chose Jesus's side. The

604
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: demons of Hell chose Satan's side, and they were never born.

605
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 3: And then there were a bunch of fence sitters who

606
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: couldn't choose the side to be on, and those were

607
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 3: people who were not white. And there, yeah, the punishment

608
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: was you get to be born on earth, but you

609
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 3: will never go to heaven. You're gonna go straight to hell.

610
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 4: Afterwards, the devil sounds so much nicer and nice.

611
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: Welcoming everyone into his right.

612
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 5: The devil was like, let's fix this.

613
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: So did you did you know any black or brown people?

614
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: So? Yeah, And this is where my brain starts to

615
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 3: shift because one of my first friends in junior high

616
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 3: was a black girl and she was so nice to me.

617
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 3: She was the only one who came up and talked

618
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: to me, and so I started to, like my brain

619
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: gears start going right, I'm like, wait a minute. So

620
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: I go home and I tell my dad. I'm like,

621
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: so are we sure on this? Like all black people

622
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 3: don't get to go to heavens. I brought the girl

623
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 3: home like I really liked her, and I brought her

624
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: home as like telling my mom, Hey, I'm gonna bring

625
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: a friend home. Is that okay? And my mom was

626
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: more you won't see this often in the order by

627
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 3: the way outsiders coming to homes. But my mom was

628
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 3: born on the outside and kind of like cohurst to joint,

629
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: so she wanted me to be able to have friends.

630
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 3: So I brought this girl home, and I think my

631
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: mom didn't know that she was going to be a

632
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 3: black girl, so she lets her come home and then

633
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 3: she's like, oh, and then my dad happened to be

634
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 3: there that day, and he also was like I realized

635
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: as soon as he saw her that I had done something.

636
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 5: Wrong, right, oh my god.

637
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he was good to her face, and as

638
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: soon as she left, he made sure to let me know, like,

639
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: why not only did you bring an outsider to the home,

640
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: but you decided to bring I don't remember if he's

641
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: used the N word or not. He was very fluid

642
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 3: with He would definitely use the nword, and that was

643
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 3: a very They still are very They use the nword

644
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: in the Jesus this day. Yeah, like it's nothing, but yeah,

645
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: that made me so sad. I don't remember if it

646
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: was like if I prayed for her, but it was

647
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 3: like internal like turmoil because I'm like, why does she

648
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: not get to go to heaven? But some of these

649
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 3: bullies in the order get to I have to see

650
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: them in heaven, you.

651
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: Know, right? Right? Did that start planting some seeds for

652
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: you about how this might not be the religion for you?

653
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I think at this point I was like, well,

654
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 3: I have to be in the order, because that's how

655
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: I get into heaven. But it didn't. It was starting

656
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: to make me lose kind of like respect for God

657
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 3: in a weird way, like why does God not because

658
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: if the answer is no, this is how it is

659
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: and this is God's you know, plan. It made me

660
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 3: start to question God in a way like, right, maybe

661
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: your plans a little flawed.

662
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 4: Right, right, maybe you're kind of mean.

663
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: So many people and groups like this do not get

664
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: the opportunity to go to public school and be face

665
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: to face with outsiders and people who don't look like them.

666
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: So I think it's like incredible that you, yeah, got

667
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 2: to have that experience and like see directly the difference

668
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: between the narrative and the reality of how people are.

669
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 6: Right.

670
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 3: I definitely credit a lot of my free thinking because

671
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: for a while I was like, why me and a

672
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: lot of people did be like you were just like

673
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: special enough to Now I'm like, no, we were all

674
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 3: born into it, and I was given different opportunities they

675
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: And just because this other person stayed doesn't mean that

676
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: they weren't smart. It's just that they weren't given those

677
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 3: opportunities to critical think.

678
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, if you're completely isolated from the outside world

679
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: and like you know nothing else, Like if you don't

680
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: have the information, then it's going to be a lot

681
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: harder to make some of those freethinking choices exactly.

682
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 3: And I even had like, yeah, I've gotten offended a

683
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 3: couple times when there was there's been some comments on

684
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 3: my tiktoks recently They're like, oh, I could never survive

685
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 3: in the order I asked too many questions and like shut,

686
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: I wouldn't. Yeah, you wouldn't if you were born in

687
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: there because you sloped down and you would be literally abused.

688
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 3: So so you don't know what you're saying right now.

689
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 2: When your entire life is being controlled, Like yeah, people

690
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: just don't. They just don't understand if they've.

691
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: There's a lot of similarities between what you're saying and

692
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: how I grew up and this little religion called the

693
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: two by twos and where it's kind of like we're

694
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: not really getting more members, we're just like breeding them

695
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: into existence because who the fuck would join this?

696
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 4: But yeah, I guess I'm just wondering, was there a

697
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 4: dress code?

698
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: Did you fit in at public school or did you

699
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: look kind of like my experience where I looked like

700
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: American girl doll going to a nineties school.

701
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, very very normal, right, blending in, and that's what

702
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 3: they wanted. That's what we did. Have the strictness of, like,

703
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 3: you know, modesty obviously, and then they were big on

704
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 3: not piercing your ears in my generation. Yeah, but I

705
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: did it myself. I took pins and I went into

706
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: the bathroom and I put the pins in my ears

707
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: and I came out like these are my ears.

708
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 2: Okay, I also is not allowed to pierce my ears.

709
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: But I was a rebellious thirteen year old, and by rebellious,

710
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: I mean I listened to punk music. But what I

711
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 2: never did any drugs or alcohol. But I did have

712
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: my friend pierce my belly button with a safety pin.

713
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: Oh my, and then someone at church saw it and

714
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 2: told my dad and I only had a belly button

715
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 2: piercing for one week and I still have a scar

716
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 2: because it was it was also really poorly placed and

717
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 2: really terrible.

718
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 3: Painful because it's that's like more skin too.

719
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 2: Than Yeah, it didn't I feel good, And they like

720
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: messed it up the first time, so they had to

721
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: do it again. But I was so intent on being

722
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: you know this was like my one way to rebel anyway,

723
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: fucked that bitch who told my dad, Yeah, fuck you bitch, anyway,

724
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: that's my aside, keep going.

725
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 3: No, that's very similar of like I wanted to feel

726
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 3: like I had some form of control of my life.

727
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 3: So I was like, I'm just gonna do it anyways

728
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 3: and force those pins through my ears, which was like

729
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 3: so painful.

730
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 5: But didn't you like get in trouble.

731
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: I mean, if I would have pierced my ears, my

732
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 1: parents would have like sent me away, right.

733
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 3: And I think at this point, like I was seventeen

734
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 3: by by this point, I think, yees, seventeen, And by

735
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 3: this time, my dad had been getting me ready to

736
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 3: basically be groomed to be married. So my mom saw

737
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 3: my safety pins in my ears and she was like

738
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: I remember, She's like, you're gonna have to talk to

739
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 3: your dad about that. And I was nervous, but I

740
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 3: went to I can't remember whose wedding it was, but

741
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: it was this reception and it was in the huge

742
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 3: which like it was like the cement building looked like

743
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 3: a warehouse, and I was dancing with my dad and

744
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 3: I was really nervous because I had to ask him

745
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 3: if I could keep my ears basically, and I had

746
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 3: my earings in and I was like, can I keep

747
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 3: my ears pierced? And I was shocked that he said yes.

748
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 3: And I think it's a mixture of his mom had

749
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 3: pierced tears, and he was like, very fond of his mother.

750
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 3: But also he was getting ready to basically push me

751
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: to marry my cousin, so he was trying to be

752
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 3: nicer at this.

753
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 2: Time, buttering you up, yeah, right, And so I was like.

754
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, So I got to keep my ears pierced,

755
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 3: but I still got like shamed for it and reprimanded

756
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: because I worked at the school and if I wore earrings,

757
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: even to a dance, if the principal of the school,

758
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 3: which was the leader's brother, if he saw me wearing

759
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: earrings or be saw me wearing clothing that he'd disapproved of,

760
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 3: he would take me into his office and be like, look,

761
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 3: you're an example to these children. Do you really think

762
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: that you should be wearing earrings? Do you really think

763
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: you should be wearing this jewelry or this this immodest clothing?

764
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 3: Jeans was one of them. He's like, jeans is immodest?

765
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 5: Jeans? I couldn't wear jeans, Yeah, couldn't.

766
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 2: This is the idea that I'm being immodest is funny,

767
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: because why, you know.

768
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: The jeans were like the devil's clothing.

769
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, what's the reasoning?

770
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: You just weren't allowed to Women weren't allowed to wear

771
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: pants in general.

772
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 5: And then jeans were so flattering and cool. And I

773
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 5: remember my first pair. We went. I went to gad Zouits.

774
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 2: Oh I guys loved god sous. It was so cool.

775
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: I got a pair of like Jinka bootleg flared Oh

776
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: my god, the dream like almost skater pants with like

777
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: a like a girl doing karate on the butt.

778
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 5: And I was like, this is the dopest thing that's

779
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 5: ever happened to me.

780
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: And I would roll them up in my backpack and

781
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: change to them every day at school.

782
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 3: And because you had to leave your house in the

783
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 3: clothing and go change later.

784
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so yeah, I relate to what you're saying.

785
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: And that's really wild that your dad would be like, yeah,

786
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: I keep your ear paircing because you're gonna marry your cousin.

787
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: Like what a what a crazy situation to be put out?

788
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, I want to hear a little

789
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 2: bit about the practice of children working, because I know

790
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: you've talked about this, Oh for sure.

791
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,439
Speaker 3: I think every Order member has a memory of working

792
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 3: at a very young age. And I remember the enziin

793
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: Learning center school bus that would pick us up from

794
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 3: the order private school would drop the kids off a

795
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 3: lot of us to different business locations so that we

796
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 3: could go to work. So you get picked up from

797
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 3: school dropped off at work.

798
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: Wait from what age?

799
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 3: I can't tell you my earliest earliest memory, but I

800
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: know that it was at least in one of my memories,

801
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 3: probably second grade, second or third grade.

802
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: That yeah, we're like any of the most Kingstony people

803
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 1: spared like if you were full king stend, full full, full,

804
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,959
Speaker 1: full fall, were you not required to work as much?

805
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 3: To be honest, I feel like the more Kingston ones

806
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 3: still they still had to work, but they would be

807
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 3: given first access to the better positions. And then I

808
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 3: do remember because I became good friends with one of

809
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 3: so the leader and his brothers. They those kids. So

810
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 3: when I became good friends with some of those daughters,

811
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: I would find out that they had way more money

812
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 3: in their bank accounts too. Like one of my friends

813
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 3: she was like, yeah, I was saving up and I

814
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 3: got had thirty grand. I was like, wait, wait, wait,

815
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 3: my account never went past two thousand ever, and I

816
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 3: had been working. There was times where I didn't even

817
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 3: have access to the money, So why would my account

818
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 3: never go over two thousand, but you're over here having

819
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 3: thirty grand? And so I started putting two and two

820
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 3: together because I was like, I'm noticing a pattern that

821
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 3: it's always the leader's kids or the leader's brothers or

822
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 3: sister's kids.

823
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so they ran the bank and they didn't really

824
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 2: tell you. There wasn't like a set rate for how

825
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 2: much money you were making. They would just kind of

826
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 2: like pay whatever.

827
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 3: They were always just so sketchy about the pay, Like

828
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 3: you would just start working and then you would hope

829
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: that you're getting paid. But then there were times where

830
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 3: someone would go like three months without getting paid and

831
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 3: then they'd be like, hey, what, I'm noticing that there's

832
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 3: literally not even been one one. Because you'd get your

833
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 3: statement on Sundays at church, they would pass them out

834
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 3: and then it would show like the money that supposedly

835
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: went into your account, and then what your surplus is

836
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: and whatever you had to like minus subtract it was.

837
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 3: They made it so confusing so that you would never

838
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 3: know exactly how much money you had. But I remember

839
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 3: this girl she was like telling them, Hey, I haven't

840
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 3: gone any surplus on my statements for three months, and

841
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 3: they told her, oh, yeah, well when you work in

842
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,919
Speaker 3: this portion of the school, then you actually don't get paid.

843
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 3: Did you not know that? And then they basically were like,

844
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 3: well take it as like you were working for the lord.

845
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 3: And then if you complain for working for free for

846
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: the lord, now you're a bad guy, you know.

847
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 5: Wow.

848
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: And parents didn't mind their children like being forced to

849
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: do child labor. I mean, I know it was a

850
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: part of the culture, but like, was there any pushback?

851
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, you would think there would be like riots, right,

852
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 3: But I think that it just was such a normal

853
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,479
Speaker 3: thing and that it became to be honest. I think

854
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 3: for my mom personally, my mom had ten kids, so

855
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 3: I think for her she was like, yeah, go to work.

856
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: Like totally get out of the house.

857
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like, you're a doctor, you're a scientist.

858
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 5: Everybody falls dark.

859
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally damn.

860
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 3: But yeah, there was not really I didn't see any pushback,

861
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 3: and I mostly saw pushing for it, and so that

862
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: was just the culture that we lived in.

863
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: Were other kids as getting as much of an education

864
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 2: as you were, because it sounded like your mom actually

865
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: cared if you guys were learning, because when you weren't,

866
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: she sent you to public school. Like what was the

867
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: education like for everybody else?

868
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: I think that, Yeah, I was lucky enough to have

869
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 3: a mom that cared more than the average mom, and

870
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 3: she even allowed she pushed for my sisters to go

871
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 3: to college, and even when my dad didn't want them

872
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 3: to go to college, my mom allowed my sister to

873
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 3: go kind of behind his back, and so she was

874
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 3: trying the best she knew to set us up to

875
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 3: not fail. But so on average, though, it's a lot

876
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 3: harder for the girls to get access to school because

877
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 3: they are I mean I saw my own friends like

878
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 3: having to drop out of high school to go get

879
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 3: married and start their family. So they would do this

880
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:47,439
Speaker 3: thing called pen foster. It was a very popular way

881
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 3: that the Order members would get their high school degrees.

882
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 3: I mean I got mine at fifteen, graduated pen Foster,

883
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 3: and really it was just everyone cheating through it, or

884
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 3: like the teacher would they would put us on a

885
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 3: room and we would try to learn together. And then

886
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: we would try to ask the teacher if we didn't know,

887
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 3: but the teacher also didn't know. So it's like kind

888
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 3: of like pushing us to have to cheat or to

889
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 3: figure out, you know, either to learn or cheat. But

890
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: a lot of them opted to cheating just to get

891
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 3: their degree, their high school diploma. But yeah, so on average,

892
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: I feel like the women were less educated. You did

893
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 3: see randomly, there were some if they were in like

894
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 3: the higher ups families, if they had a position that

895
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 3: they were wanting them to go for, like a teacher

896
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 3: or something, then they would allow them to go out.

897
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 3: You would see a lot more men going to college definitely,

898
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 3: because they could trust the men. But I was I

899
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: thought to go to college and they were like, absolutely not.

900
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 3: And I think it's because my dad would say things like,

901
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 3: you know, ask your husband if it's okay for you

902
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 3: to go to college. Ask your husband if it's okay

903
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 3: for you to you know, when you're older and you

904
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: have a husband, you can ask him if you can

905
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 3: wear that like to become like, once I'm done taking

906
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 3: care of you, then I'm going to pass you off

907
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 3: to your husband and then he can be your parent.

908
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 3: So it's super weird. But the reason they didn't have

909
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 3: me go to college is because I was already breaking

910
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 3: order standards. I was already like running around with boyfriends

911
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 3: and like going out with men that were not Kingston.

912
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 3: So they were like worried that I was definitely going

913
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 3: to go like dating outsider. They were like, let's keep

914
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 3: her locked up in this cage as possible so that

915
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 3: she can't, you know, escape, Basically to.

916
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 2: What extent did you believe in the religion itself? Like

917
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: it sounds like you kind of had a little bit

918
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: of a rebellious streak and wanted to do your own,

919
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: like be a little bit independent, But did you still

920
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 2: really believe in the religion.

921
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 3: I think every single member that's born there is like

922
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,320
Speaker 3: a die hard for the order. But at some point

923
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: for me, I think it was fifteen, Yeah, I was

924
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 3: fifteen years old. I ran away. So I had been

925
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 3: running away a lot, but I really liked this boy

926
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 3: who was not Kingston, and my dad fought out told me.

927
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 3: He was like, I don't know who you're supposed to marry,

928
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 3: but I know it's not him, and so I was

929
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: like what, So I ran away with him. I was

930
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 3: so like conflicted because I was like, I don't want

931
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 3: to live polygamy. And I also I cannot imagine having

932
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 3: daughters and teaching these daughters too that they're also going

933
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 3: to have the same fate that I'm so like depressed about.

934
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 5: Right.

935
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 3: I remember praying. I prayed so hard to get the answers,

936
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 3: and I remember crying. In this one time that I

937
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: ran away, I was like crying. I had my little

938
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 3: quad Bible and I was reading and crying, and I

939
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: just came to the I had a weird experience that

940
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 3: to this day I'm like, was it was it like schizophrenia?

941
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it basically was like a comforting

942
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 3: experience with my Bible where I was like, Okay, I'm

943
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 3: gonna leave. I'm going to get out of the order.

944
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 3: I don't know how, but I'm going to do it.

945
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 3: And it was the mixture of I didn't want to

946
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: fligt me, I didn't want to have to force my

947
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 3: daughters into a lifestyle that I don't even appreciate. And

948
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 3: then around this time too, I had a friend who

949
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: asked me if I heard about the whole this is

950
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 3: what he said. He said, did you know that Daniel

951
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: beat Mary Anne? I don't know if you have heard

952
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 3: these names or anything, but it became public. What he

953
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: was talking about was it was public news that so

954
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 3: my cousin Mary Anne, who's Daniel's daughter. And if you

955
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 3: watch the show Escaping Pluing Me, Daniel is the dad

956
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 3: of Jessica, Andrea Chanelle Colleen. Like, he has two hundred

957
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 3: over two hundred and sixty children. Sorry, one hundred and sixty. Yeah,

958
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty children.

959
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,959
Speaker 5: But what makes it better? Just kidding a little better?

960
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 3: Wives in like one hundred and sixty something.

961
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:50,720
Speaker 4: Wow.

962
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 3: But one of those kids was named mary Anne, and

963
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 3: she was a teenager, like I think it was fifteen

964
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 3: at the time, and even looked all of this information up.

965
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 3: They forced her to marry her uncle David o' kinston,

966
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 3: and she's like fifteen. She was actively against it. She

967
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,760
Speaker 3: begged her mom to get her out of the situation,

968
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 3: and because she was defiant, then Daniel took her to

969
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 3: one of the order Uh ranches, it was the Washaki ranch,

970
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 3: and he beat her up to the point where like

971
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 3: she had broken bones, she had bruises all over her

972
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 3: body and she had to run to the nearest gas

973
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 3: station when he left and call the police, like he

974
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 3: just left her there like that.

975
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

976
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 3: So but I, being in the Order, never heard the story.

977
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: Like I went my whole life thinking that David o'

978
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 3: kingston went to prison for I had no idea why

979
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 3: he actually went. The Order kind of made it seem

980
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 3: like they're just trying to prosecute us because we're polygamous.

981
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,479
Speaker 3: They're trying to because of our religious beliefs. They're trying

982
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 3: to hurt us.

983
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 2: It's always persecution and never a crime.

984
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, never accountability on the men of course.

985
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah.

986
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 3: Come to find out later it's because he was literally

987
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,800
Speaker 3: raping his underage niece. And the sad part of this

988
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 3: story is he was supposed to get ten years, but

989
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 3: he got out in like four because of like he

990
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 3: promised that he wasn't gonna be living incess. Meanwhile he

991
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 3: has like how many wives of his or his own

992
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 3: half sisters? Crazy?

993
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 5: Wow?

994
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm hearing this this This guy be like

995
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 3: did you know that Daniel beat Marianne? And my brain

996
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 3: is like no, because, uh, why would a numbered man

997
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 3: do that?

998
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 2: Like wait, who said this to you?

999
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 3: This was my friend, He was in the Order, but

1000
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 3: he was in This is some tea, but it's also

1001
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 3: like you have to like know the lore. Yeah, Merlin's family.

1002
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 3: So Merlin was supposed to be the next leader. There's

1003
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 3: this huge rivalry that when Ortel died, my grandpa, his

1004
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 3: brother Merlin was supposed to be the leader, but instead

1005
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: his son Paul swooped in and got the leadership because

1006
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 3: his favorite wife was like, no, my son's going to

1007
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 3: be the leader.

1008
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: Oh juicy, Okay, Yeah.

1009
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 3: So Merlin's son, like Merlin's family became like ostracized, and

1010
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 3: even though they're all Kingston, it became like this divide

1011
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 3: where Merlin's family was kind of teaching their family different

1012
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 3: things because he was supposed to be the leader, and

1013
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 3: then Paul's family kind of had hit their own things.

1014
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: So then it was like again a cult within a

1015
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 3: cult where don't talk to Merlin's family because they don't

1016
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 3: know the true teachings even though they're in the order

1017
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 3: to right. So Merlin's family would kind of be the

1018
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 3: ones that would whispering me like did you know that

1019
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 3: did you know that LaDonna used to do this and

1020
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 3: Paul used to do this? Right? Marln's kid was like

1021
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 3: did you know that Daniel beat Marianne and I was

1022
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 3: like no. So then he told me, he's like, go

1023
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 3: ask your dad, say dad, did Daniel beat Marianne. So

1024
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 3: I was like, fine, I will I go ask my dad,

1025
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 3: dad did Daniel beat Marianne? And he goes, let's not

1026
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 3: talk about that, and instantly I knew. I was like,

1027
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, so this is what else are you hiding?

1028
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: What else are you okay with them doing? And I

1029
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 3: started to just I think at that point I was

1030
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 3: just losing all respect for my dad because it's like, one,

1031
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 3: you lied to me when I was a little kid

1032
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: about you being my dad, and now you're sitting here

1033
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 3: like you won't even enlighten me on the terrible things

1034
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 3: that these men are doing. You're blindly following these men.

1035
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 3: Not only that, you're wanting me to marry one of

1036
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 3: their kids, you know, like, what's my fate if I

1037
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 3: trust you with my future?

1038
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah?

1039
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 2: Was that like a major Like yeah, oh yeah, that was.

1040
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 3: Like I'm gonna fight, kicking and screaming to get out

1041
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 3: of here because apparently and the fact that like, no,

1042
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: when I went to research more about the story, it

1043
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 3: was turned into like if you went to the Kingston side,

1044
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 3: like David's family, the guy that went to prison. If

1045
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 3: you went to that family or to Daniel's family, they

1046
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 3: were slut shaming the girl. It was all the girl's fault.

1047
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 3: David did nothing wrong. This girl who was fifteen, right,

1048
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 3: is the terrible person. And this is very common in

1049
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 3: the order. I even heard recently one of the members

1050
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 3: talking to their relatives, like I was kind of like

1051
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 3: a fly on the wall in the conversation, and she

1052
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 3: was saying similar things like slut shaming a fifteen year

1053
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 3: old for being with an Oh man, Wow, but why

1054
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 3: are you guys? It's because the men are running the society,

1055
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 3: and the men want zero accountability, so they want it

1056
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 3: all to be on the woman. Which I find that

1057
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 3: so interesting though, because, like I was literally talking about

1058
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 3: this the other day, how is it that we we

1059
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 3: and these cults can be like the men are like,

1060
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 3: it's all the women's fault. The woman made me do it.

1061
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 3: It's like they they're they're forcing me. They have all

1062
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: this power over me. Okay, then why doesn't the woman

1063
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 3: be the leader of the church because she has she's.

1064
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 2: Just so powerful.

1065
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's like the blind leading the blind over here.

1066
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,479
Speaker 2: Well, evil sinners can't lead churches, Amanda, you could never.

1067
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 3: But the story of Eve, I know that one's also

1068
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 3: a very triggering one.

1069
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 5: It really is.

1070
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: I mean, this sounds like and I could be way off,

1071
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: but this just sounds like some someplace so rife and

1072
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: perfect for abuse that I'm surprised, Like I'm surprised Marian

1073
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 1: didn't die, to be honest. It sounds like she was

1074
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: beaten and left for dead almost like.

1075
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's been cases where I really believe there's

1076
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 3: been multiple cases that we don't even know that have

1077
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 3: been cover ups because also there and I don't know

1078
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: how it is right now, but when I was in

1079
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 3: the order, my dad told me like a funny story

1080
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 3: of how his mom didn't get him his birth certificate

1081
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 3: till he was like eight years old. So it was

1082
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 3: very common practice where they would not have birth certificates

1083
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 3: for a while. So there's these kids just running around

1084
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 3: with there's no there's no proof that they exist. And

1085
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 3: my theory is that there was so much abuse in

1086
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 3: the group because you know, they would literally teach that

1087
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 3: if the kid is six months old, then they should obey,

1088
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 3: they should be obedient, and if you have to use force,

1089
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 3: then do it because the kids should be obeying. So

1090
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 3: I think that the reason why they waited on their

1091
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 3: birth certificates is because, yes, there was a lot of

1092
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 3: diseases that these kids got and they didn't make it

1093
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 3: because they don't believe in the hospitals. But then there

1094
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 3: was also a lot of abuse, so they're like, well,

1095
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,439
Speaker 3: we just wait till they're like five to get their

1096
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 3: birth certificate. That's my belief on it.

1097
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: That makes perfect sense. I mean your theory, not that

1098
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: they would do it.

1099
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, because also too, my mom had all ten kids

1100
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 3: at home. I remember helping bury the placentas in the

1101
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 3: backyard after done giving birth.

1102
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: That must have been what you thought your future was

1103
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: really going to be. I mean, how terrifying to watch

1104
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: a woman give birth at home and that much pain

1105
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: and be like.

1106
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,959
Speaker 2: This is what I'm going to do and like ten

1107
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 2: times and that's it and that's my whole life's purpose.

1108
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 3: Yep. And with the grooming, though, so many women, including me,

1109
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 3: are like, you know what, ten kids sounds good? Like

1110
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 3: I'm so excited.

1111
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: Really you were, you felt that excitement.

1112
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 3: I wasn't excited to get married to my relatives, but

1113
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 3: I was excited to be a mom because we were

1114
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 3: moms at such a young age already, and that was

1115
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 3: honestly the one thing. And I bet you everyone you

1116
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 3: interview from Polius cults will say the same thing, that

1117
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 3: the the best thing that they had in these cults

1118
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 3: was their siblings being raised with all of these siblings

1119
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,719
Speaker 3: being raised with their Like, I was kind of like

1120
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 3: got the taste of being a mother with my little

1121
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 3: you know. Literally, after my mom had her last kid,

1122
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 3: they handed her off to me to go clean their

1123
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 3: off while my dad was helping my mom, and so

1124
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 3: I'm like the first person, one of the first people

1125
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 3: like gets to hold this little baby and clean her,

1126
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 3: and it is It's a really cool experience, and so

1127
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 3: you want that, especially when that really is the highest

1128
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 3: place that you get in the order. Sadly, as a woman,

1129
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 3: not to say that like having a baby is like sad,

1130
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 3: what a low thing, but to know that that's your

1131
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 3: only greatest accomplishment is that you're going to be birthing

1132
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 3: kind of like being livestock for the order.

1133
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: Right, So can you tell us about your marriage and

1134
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 2: how it ended up happening and how you felt, Yeah.

1135
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,760
Speaker 3: Well, I actually didn't get married in the order though.

1136
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 2: Oh you got married after yeah, yeah, yeah right, I

1137
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 2: ran away? Right, So how did you not get married?

1138
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 2: Is that story? Then?

1139
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? So they they were basically it was going towards

1140
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 3: that direction. Uh, and I had been like I was saying,

1141
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 3: I had voiced my concern and I ended up so

1142
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 3: I had run away multiple times. I've told this story

1143
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 3: on my YouTube, but I have like a whole It's

1144
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 3: like such a long story. But basically, the last day

1145
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 3: I was there, I was trying to help my friend

1146
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 3: get his money out of the Order Bank because he

1147
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 3: was trying to leave and I had been working at

1148
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 3: the Order bank. So it ended in this huge like

1149
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 3: there was a physical altercation, like the leader's brother like

1150
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 3: attacked me. I was bleeding at the neck. Police got called.

1151
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,479
Speaker 2: Wait he attacked you because you were trying to get

1152
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 2: money out for your friend.

1153
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 3: I was like, I kind of wanted to spare you

1154
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 3: the story, but if you want to hear, I'll tell.

1155
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 2: Your I want to hear it if you if yeah,

1156
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 2: if you don't mind, I mean I don't unless you

1157
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 2: want to not spoil it because it's on your YouTube,

1158
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: totally up to you.

1159
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 3: No, No, I I can tell you because there's a

1160
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 3: little pieces of it, but basically he wasn't getting his

1161
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 3: money out. They weren't lett him get his money out.

1162
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 3: He had like thirty forty thousand dollars in there. He

1163
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: calls me, I come over. We kind of kind of

1164
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 3: we tried to devise a plan, and he was like, well,

1165
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 3: you work there and they'll buzz you back, no problem.

1166
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 3: And they're always so afraid of getting in trouble for

1167
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 3: child labor, which is crazy. They're so afraid of getting

1168
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 3: in trouble for that, yet they'd do it all everywhere right,

1169
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 3: And we all knew that they were afraid because especially

1170
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 3: at the office the order bank, there was all these

1171
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,439
Speaker 3: kids that worked in the back. You had to push

1172
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 3: a button to buzz in the back, so no outsiders

1173
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 3: could go back there. But when someone needed to come

1174
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 3: fix like a copee machine or something, then they would

1175
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 3: have all the kids like disperse, go hide, and then

1176
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,440
Speaker 3: the outsider would come in fix it. It would be like

1177
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 3: empty and then leave and all the kids would come

1178
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 3: back to go work.

1179
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: Wow.

1180
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 3: So we knew how paranoid they were of getting caught

1181
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 3: for the breaking child labor laws. So he was like,

1182
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 3: if you go back there, take pictures of the underage

1183
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,959
Speaker 3: kids working, and we used that as leverage to get

1184
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 3: my money.

1185
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: Is wow smart.

1186
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, okay, that's a good idea. So

1187
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 3: he gives me his phone. I go back there and

1188
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 3: I start taking pictures. I guess I was obvious, but

1189
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 3: I thought I was discreet. But I was. But in

1190
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 3: this moment, too, I could have gotten away. But in

1191
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 3: this moment, I realized that this is probably gonna be

1192
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 3: the last time that I ever see these people. And

1193
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 3: my one of my best friends worked in the office

1194
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 3: right over to the left side of the building. So

1195
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm just going to go talk to

1196
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,919
Speaker 3: her one last time. And I ran over to her

1197
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: and it was like one of those situations where it

1198
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 3: was like I knew it was our last conversation, but

1199
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 3: she didn't. It was just a normal conversation to her,

1200
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 3: and again it was our very last conversation, Like I

1201
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 3: never saw her again. Wow, But I'm talking to her

1202
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 3: and I just remember seeing her because my back was

1203
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 3: to the door. She was sitting in her office chair,

1204
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 3: and I remember as we were talking, I just remember

1205
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: seeing her face like looking behind me, like scared. And

1206
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,880
Speaker 3: it was Paul's coming from behind me to get the

1207
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 3: phone that had the evidence, and it was such a blur,

1208
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 3: like I just remember all of a sudden, like the

1209
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 3: phone flew out of my hand and he was like

1210
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 3: his arms were all over me, and then he was

1211
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 3: like pushing me with his hip out the door and

1212
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 3: it was in front of like I feel like at

1213
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 3: least ten people saw this, and I just remember seeing

1214
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 3: all their faces in shock as he's like shoving me

1215
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 3: out the door. He had the phone in his hand,

1216
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 3: and I just start I like he locked me out

1217
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 3: of the door. So I'm like in shock adrenaline, and

1218
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 3: so I run across the street to my friend. My

1219
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 3: friend starts crying. He's like, you're bleeding, You're bleeding. And

1220
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 3: I felt nothing because I had so much adrenaline and

1221
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 3: so but I remember like touching my neck and there

1222
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 3: was blood and I was like, I don't even know

1223
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 3: how that happened because it happened so fast, but there

1224
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 3: were handprints all over me. Like we eventually called the police,

1225
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 3: and the police like took pictures. It was very obvious

1226
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 3: that he put his hands on me, which later he

1227
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 3: told the police like no, no, no, and he would

1228
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 3: not talk to the police. Till his lawyer showed up.

1229
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 3: His lawyers also a numbered man for the order. But

1230
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 3: the craziest part of this story, and this is why

1231
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 3: at the time, I was like, God must have been

1232
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 3: watching us today. So I was super like, I definitely

1233
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 3: believe that Heavenly Father was watching over me. And I

1234
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 3: was one of the rare cases where I still believed

1235
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 3: in God and that God didn't think I was going

1236
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 3: to hell after leaving like a lot of times. Yeah,

1237
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 3: everyone's usually like hell anyways, whatever, but I believe, like,

1238
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 3: if there's a God, he's not the God they believe in,

1239
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 3: because that sounds like the hell. And I don't want

1240
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 3: to go to a heaven where all of you guys are.

1241
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 2: I've literally never heard of someone like still believe it,

1242
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 2: like believing that when they leave their religious group. That's crazy,

1243
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 2: that's great, that's way better.

1244
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 3: And maybe it was a version of me kind of

1245
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 3: like gaslighting myself, like Nope, there's a there's a heaven,

1246
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 3: and it's exactly how I want it to be.

1247
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 5: It's called manifesting and we love it.

1248
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, higher Power, right, Yeah, So I believe that Heavenly

1249
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 3: Father was watching over me because this as we're calling

1250
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 3: the police. There happened to be this cop that was

1251
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 3: going back to the station. He heard our call. He

1252
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 3: was like right in front of us, pulled over, and

1253
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 3: he happened to be this same cop because because I

1254
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 3: don't know if Priscilla talked about any of this topic

1255
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 3: of a lot of the Order has policemen in their pockets,

1256
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 3: like they pay off a lot of people. But I

1257
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 3: happened to be calling one that they weren't, and he

1258
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 3: happened to be the cop that was on the case

1259
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 3: of So there's a little story of there was a

1260
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 3: baby in the Order who was being babysat and this

1261
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 3: is what the what ended up happening, and I'll and

1262
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what the truth is afterwards. So what

1263
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 3: ended up happening was the baby. They claimed the babysitter

1264
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 3: claimed that the baby fell, but by the autopsy, the

1265
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 3: baby was beaten to death. Oh my god, and the

1266
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 3: wrong person in my not in my opinion. I talked

1267
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 3: to family members that were on this, so I truly

1268
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 3: believe this is what happened. I think this is fact.

1269
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 3: The wrong person went to prison to protect the abuser,

1270
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 3: who was the leader's brother.

1271
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

1272
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 3: Right, and and they do scare tactics like that to

1273
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 3: get the women to do that, or like it's an

1274
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 3: honor to serve the Lord in this way whatever.

1275
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: That went to God.

1276
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was a mother that went my mother

1277
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 3: who had kids. Oh, went to this.

1278
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: Dude, Jesus. So this was the same cop you said.

1279
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the same cop that I had happened to be

1280
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 3: driving on was the same cop that went to the

1281
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 3: house and listened to the Kingston's lying about how the

1282
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 3: baby just fell and so he and he told me this.

1283
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 3: He pulled over and I'm like, I'm from the Kingston group.

1284
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 3: I was probably sobbing, stuttering, like he probably was like,

1285
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 3: what's going on? But he did say He's like, listen,

1286
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 3: I know you're not lying. I was on the case

1287
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 3: where they claimed that that baby had fallen, but I

1288
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 3: know that they killed that baby. Like he was on

1289
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 3: my side, like ride or die. He was so cool.

1290
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 3: He tried to go in there to go speak to them,

1291
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 3: and they were holy. The door shut and he was

1292
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 3: telling us. He was like, they're they're shuffling around there,

1293
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 3: paper flying everywhere. They're freaking out. They're not letting me.

1294
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 3: Oh wow, they're acting so suspicious like he was on

1295
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 3: my side. He was taking pictures for me, and he

1296
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 3: I remember him saying, take this as you're silver lining

1297
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 3: and get out and never look back. And like to

1298
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 3: this day, I'm like, I'm so glad that I had

1299
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 3: that experience because it helped me through validate just validating

1300
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 3: a lot of things that happened, and then realizing I

1301
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 3: don't know this whole story was so crazy because even

1302
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 3: after talking to him and him like kind of giving

1303
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 3: me that pep talk, thirty minutes later, another cop shows up,

1304
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 3: pulls over, has me separate from the group and sit

1305
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 3: in his car with him, and he starts to say, like, look,

1306
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 3: do you really want to press charges on Jason, Like

1307
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 3: it's so much work for you to have to go

1308
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 3: to court multiple times and he's going to get a

1309
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 3: slap on the wrist. And I'm over here like just

1310
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 3: a seventeen year old, scared little kid, colt kid has

1311
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 3: no ideas what the laws are. And so I'm like, okay, yeah,

1312
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 3: but I do remember feeling weird about it, so I

1313
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 3: asked for his card. Later on, I showed the card

1314
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 3: to another girl that had been out of the order

1315
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 3: for a long time. She's like, yeah, he works for

1316
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 3: the Order.

1317
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: Wow, God, this is like the most dramatic TV show

1318
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 1: I know.

1319
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 2: I'm like transfixed.

1320
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you left that day.

1321
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 3: That was July twenty fifth of twenty thirteen. That was

1322
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 3: the last day. Like, in hindsight, it was all it

1323
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 3: really was a sober lining, like seeing all of that

1324
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 3: unfold and it happening so fast. Which after, by the way,

1325
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 3: after I'd been attacked, after the guy, the uncle that

1326
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,800
Speaker 3: attacked me, Paul's brother starts to talk to the police.

1327
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 3: We can see him lying to the police, Like we

1328
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 3: can see him showing how he escorted me out within

1329
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 3: like an hour, the whole order. Same thing was happening

1330
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 3: to me as Marianne, Right, I'm getting slutshamed. I guess what.

1331
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 3: Amanda actually never got touched by him. She claught herself

1332
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 3: in the throat and there's video evidence that she did that.

1333
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 3: And like, I'm like, because these are the people that

1334
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 3: were sharing this information knew me. I was like, so

1335
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 3: you think that it's but in my brain so at

1336
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 3: the time it was really really hard for me to hear.

1337
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 3: I was like, WHOA. But in hindsight, what was really

1338
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 3: happening was at least I think it is easier to

1339
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 3: believe that I was just this crazy cult member, right,

1340
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 3: or this crazy person that just wanted to bring down

1341
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 3: the order and hurt the order, than to believe that

1342
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 3: the leadership is flawed. Yeah, right, to believe that the

1343
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 3: leadership actually did attack Amanda and did do these things.

1344
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 3: But the part that I'm actually really glad for is

1345
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,919
Speaker 3: there were, like I said, like ten witnesses that did

1346
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 3: see him lay his hands on me. So there's got

1347
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 3: to be or at least was at the time a

1348
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,439
Speaker 3: debate going on. They saw it with their own eyes.

1349
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 3: They are people who don't want to believe it.

1350
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 2: I would love to be a fly on the wall

1351
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 2: in tho debates between people who saw it and people

1352
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 2: who didn't believe it and I and I'm like, I

1353
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 2: wonder if people who saw it even could gaslight themselves into.

1354
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 3: It to be like maybe it wasn't what yeah yeah,

1355
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:17,439
Speaker 3: yeah yeah. Because also too, like this is the part

1356
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 3: that I kept saying over and over, at least to

1357
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 3: anyone who would hear, because I started to get cut

1358
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 3: off from people really really fast, Even like the girl

1359
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,439
Speaker 3: that saw me get attacked that I never saw again.

1360
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 3: She was texting me She's like, I cannot believe he

1361
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 3: did that. Are you okay? And then all of a sudden,

1362
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 3: like her texts were like different because they you could

1363
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 3: tell that someone t coached her and said, hey, we

1364
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 3: don't want a manage to be able to use any

1365
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 3: evidence against us. Blah blah blah. Do you want to

1366
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 3: be hurting the order? You don't want to be hurting

1367
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 3: right right, She's starting to feel scared and so. But

1368
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 3: my defense was always when people would say they have footage,

1369
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 3: they have footage that he never touched you, I would say,

1370
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 3: then why didn't he show that footage to the police,

1371
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 3: Because he did end up having to do anger management

1372
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 3: and he had it on his record, So if there

1373
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 3: was evidence he never attacked a minor, then he would

1374
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 3: not have had to do that, right, right.

1375
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 2: And I love when people say there's evidence but then

1376
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 2: they could never produce it, like it's just show and

1377
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 2: it showed me somewhere. It's like, okay, yeah, we let's

1378
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 2: let the truth come out. Then show me the evidence, right,

1379
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:20,439
Speaker 2: but now, exactly where did you go that day?

1380
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 3: At that time, I was kind of like dating this guy.

1381
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 3: It was the guy that I ended up marrying, and

1382
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 3: he he so I don't like to say too much

1383
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 3: about his side because we're divorced now, and whenever I

1384
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 3: talk about him, he's like, keep my name out of

1385
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 3: your mouth. But he was there and he was on

1386
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 3: the reports. So he was there with my friend like

1387
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 3: they were waiting for me to come out, and he

1388
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 3: he was like, you guys can come stay in my house,

1389
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 3: and we kind of like all huddled together, like as

1390
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 3: an emotional support group. But he the part that shocked

1391
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 3: me about him, that was eye opening with him, and honestly,

1392
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 3: I think is a big reason why we ended up.

1393
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 3: I ended up leaving him seven years later after the

1394
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 3: after getting married. In this moment when I was attacked,

1395
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 3: when I had blood coming out of my neck and

1396
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 3: we were calling the police, his response was to call

1397
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 3: the leader and be like, come come get your brother,

1398
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 3: like he believed that the leader would be on his side.

1399
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 3: Like he was like, without a doubt, there's no way

1400
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 3: the leader would be because he's still kind of believed.

1401
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 3: And it pissed me off because I was like, dude, like,

1402
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 3: there's no way he's going to take my side over

1403
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 3: his brother. He's like, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong.

1404
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 3: He kept trying to call, call, call, and I was right, yeah,

1405
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 3: I was like obviously, like and here here. It is

1406
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 3: like the leadership was all shaming me. And honestly, I

1407
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 3: feel like that needed to happen for him to realize like,

1408
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, they don't care about us. I'm like, yeah, dah.

1409
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 2: Right, what did I feel like having your community turn

1410
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,759
Speaker 2: on you like that? Because I just it just seems

1411
01:08:56,760 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 2: like it would be so so painful.

1412
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 3: It definitely was, because it's like it's not only that

1413
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 3: I just left and never saw these people again. They

1414
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 3: were like kicking you while you're down on the way out,

1415
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:09,799
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, And it was almost like they wanted

1416
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 3: to see you suffer. I just remember. One of the

1417
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 3: memories that really sticks out was one of my really

1418
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 3: good friends that I was like really close with. We

1419
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 3: would sneak out together, we would break you order standards together.

1420
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 3: She had a secret phone and she messaged me and

1421
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 3: she was like, it's just a really good thing that

1422
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 3: you're leaving and you're not bringing anyone else to heck

1423
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 3: with you.

1424
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 2: Oh m, did she say? She said to Heck.

1425
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure it was Heck. It's in tech. They're

1426
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 3: like if they're afraid to say at double oh my god,

1427
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 3: but her she thought I.

1428
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 1: Was Heck, yeah, and all of your siblings that you've

1429
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 1: helped raise, it's just like, yeah, it's it's like apocalyptic emotionally.

1430
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just unbelievable.

1431
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 3: Right, I think I think everyone that leaves goes through

1432
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 3: that of it's like mourning people that are still alive. Right.

1433
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1434
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 3: But as you heal and you do therapy and you

1435
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 3: grow and you start to learn what healthy love is,

1436
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 3: you kind of realize that none of them ever unconditionally

1437
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 3: loved you anyways at the beginning. Yeah, it was all

1438
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 3: a love based on conditions and what can you do

1439
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:19,439
Speaker 3: for me? You know?

1440
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 5: And the order?

1441
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 3: Right, that's your only purpose?

1442
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 5: What is that first month year out?

1443
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 3: Like, I feel like for me was probably different than

1444
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 3: other people because my year happened so fast and escaping

1445
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,839
Speaker 3: polygamy actually contacted me within like six months of my escape,

1446
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 3: and I think that to me it was a good

1447
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 3: thing because it was also kind of a I don't know,

1448
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 3: it was bittersweet because it was like a distraction, but

1449
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 3: it was also like forcing me to work through my

1450
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 3: trauma because I kept going back to the order topics,

1451
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 3: but I realized there was something wrong with me. I

1452
01:10:57,400 --> 01:10:59,759
Speaker 3: definitely had a lot of shame and guilt and hate

1453
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,120
Speaker 3: that was kind of in me even in the order,

1454
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 3: because you're surrounded by that and you're talked the way

1455
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 3: that you're talked at too by your parents becomes your

1456
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 3: internal dialogue, right, So I had a lot of hate, guilt,

1457
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 3: shame and stuff that came from the order, and then

1458
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 3: on top of that, you're like mourning the loss of

1459
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 3: your family. It was I was lucky enough that I

1460
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 3: did have siblings that still snuck out to come see me,

1461
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 3: and I'm so grateful for that. They ended up leaving later, right,

1462
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:26,559
Speaker 3: But I was in and out of therapy for a

1463
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:28,920
Speaker 3: lot of years, and it took a lot of Do

1464
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 3: you hear this this thing of like healings never linear, right,

1465
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 3: But it's true, And I think that there were times

1466
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 3: where it was like really really good, and then it

1467
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 3: was like I don't want to I don't want to

1468
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 3: heal anymore. It's too hard, and so I'd have to

1469
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 3: take a break and then my mental health will go

1470
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 3: down and then I want to go back up. You know.

1471
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 3: It's kind of just like putting in the work is

1472
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 3: really hard, especially when you were not given the tools

1473
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 3: in your childhood. So now as an adult, it almost

1474
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 3: felt like it was like a culture shock. It's it

1475
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 3: almost felt like going from one planet to another planet

1476
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 3: where they're all speaking a different language, right, because my

1477
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 3: whole world was this cult and what worked in the

1478
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 3: cults doesn't work out here, so it's like trying to

1479
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 3: figure that out.

1480
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:13,320
Speaker 2: It's important to mention I think that on our healing journeys,

1481
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,600
Speaker 2: taking breaks is just probably inevitably going to be a

1482
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:18,840
Speaker 2: part of it. Like we have, you know, it's very

1483
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:20,680
Speaker 2: we want to think we can just kind of like

1484
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 2: power through it and be like I'm healed, and like

1485
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 2: it's just like a straight yeah, like a straight line up.

1486
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 2: But like that's not how it works, and that's okay,

1487
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 2: and that's normal and that's part of it.

1488
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 5: Right.

1489
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:31,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1490
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 5: Even being reminded of that right now.

1491
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, a thousand pounds has just been

1492
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 1: lifted off my shoulders.

1493
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 2: You're right, Yeah, how did you even know.

1494
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,679
Speaker 5: What therapy was or like how to find a therapist?

1495
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,760
Speaker 3: That's a really good This is a good point to

1496
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 3: end on and maybe even if you can have some

1497
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 3: of this in a description box for any members who

1498
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 3: anyone from any cults they're trying to leave. Holding Out

1499
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 3: Help actually helped me to have access to free therapy

1500
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 3: when I left. I'm so grateful for that because I

1501
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 3: wouldn't have gotten it. I wouldn't have been spending money

1502
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 3: on that.

1503
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 2: And how did you know about that? Like, how did

1504
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 2: you come in to contact them?

1505
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 3: There was multiple ex Order members who asked me if

1506
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 3: I had heard of them, and I think even while

1507
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 3: I was in the Order, someone slipped me the information,

1508
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 3: so I knew that there was resources. And at the

1509
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 3: time I never lived with them, but I know that

1510
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 3: Holding Out Help now offers like housing for people that

1511
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 3: are leaving the WOW therapy they offer for me. What

1512
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 3: I took advantage of was they helped me get a

1513
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,839
Speaker 3: job because I didn't know how to have a resume.

1514
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 3: I was just given all my jobs in the Order, right,

1515
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 3: so they helped me write a resume. They helped me

1516
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:38,639
Speaker 3: get my first job. They helped me get a gas

1517
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 3: card so that I could ford gas to get to

1518
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 3: the job. They offer like phones, phone covering, phone bills,

1519
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 3: stuff like that. So I think it's such a good resource,

1520
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 3: And doesn't your mom also has resources.

1521
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 2: As well, right, Yeah, Voices for Dignity in southern Utah

1522
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:58,719
Speaker 2: in the in the Short Creek area. She does really

1523
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 2: similar work there as well. Yeah, it's like we need

1524
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 2: the organizations like that because so many people, I mean,

1525
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:06,240
Speaker 2: like my mom, actually, my mom and me when we

1526
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 2: left our you know, we're homeless briefly, like after she

1527
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 2: got out of her situation and realized that the man

1528
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 2: was a fraud, we had no money and we had

1529
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 2: nowhere to go, and there was no understanding of that

1530
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:21,400
Speaker 2: at the time, and there were no resources, and it

1531
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 2: made her healing journey just takes so much longer because

1532
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:26,799
Speaker 2: you're in survival mode at the same time.

1533
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 3: You can't heal when you're your basic needs are not being.

1534
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 2: Met right, right exactly. And yeah, like I hope more

1535
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 2: of these organizations crop up all across the country, but

1536
01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that some of them are doing that

1537
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 2: work already. Amanda, we have to wrap up with you.

1538
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 2: I don't want to.

1539
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 3: Another one, I know.

1540
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 2: Seriously, what would you say to somebody who is just

1541
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 2: beginning to wonder if the group that they're in could

1542
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 2: be a cult? Do you have any advice or thoughts or.

1543
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 3: Tips recently on one of my live streams actually had

1544
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 3: an Order member commenting and he was like, my family

1545
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,639
Speaker 3: doesn't abuse me. My family's actually pretty good in the Order.

1546
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 3: And I told him. I was like, well, well, they

1547
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:14,839
Speaker 3: may not physically abuse you, but they may be emotionally

1548
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 3: abusing you and you may be unaware. And he was like, Nope,

1549
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 3: they're not emotionally abusing me. And I was like, do

1550
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:22,840
Speaker 3: they believe in the law of one above another? And

1551
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 3: he was like yes, And I was like, the lave

1552
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:27,559
Speaker 3: of one above another is emotional abuse, because what is

1553
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 3: the definition of emotional abuse. It basically is what the

1554
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 3: abuser is doing is trying to make the victim trust them,

1555
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 3: trust the abuser more than themselves, lose trusting themselves, not

1556
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 3: have a sense of self. That's what emotional abuse does.

1557
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 3: And what the law of one above another is is

1558
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 3: basically literally that like, we are going to tell you

1559
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 3: what God says because we can't trust you with your

1560
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 3: relationship with God, so you're gonna have to talk to

1561
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 3: God through us, right. So my point in this is

1562
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 3: if someone is questioning if you are a member of

1563
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:01,720
Speaker 3: a cult, or in your brain you're gonna think you're

1564
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 3: not in a cult, right, I never did when I

1565
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:07,879
Speaker 3: was in it. If you're questioning, there's a reason you're questioning,

1566
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 3: and you need to trust yourself enough to let yourself

1567
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,559
Speaker 3: dive into those questions to get the answers that you deserve.

1568
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 3: And anyone who's trying to make you distrust yourself is

1569
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 3: probably emotionally abusing you. So questions are good things. There

1570
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:30,759
Speaker 3: we critically think and how we can find the best environment,

1571
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,839
Speaker 3: the safest environment for ourselves. So anytime you are questioning,

1572
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 3: trust yourself that you're going to make the decisions for yourself.

1573
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,759
Speaker 3: That's such a hard it's like easier than done, especially

1574
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,760
Speaker 3: when you're in a cult and you're you don't have

1575
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:43,960
Speaker 3: a very good sense of self because they don't create

1576
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 3: that environment for you. But questions are a good thing

1577
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,960
Speaker 3: and you should basically hone in on that as much.

1578
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 2: As Yes, yes, I love that questions. Yes, Amanda, Where

1579
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 2: can people find you online?

1580
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 3: Yes? I have a YouTube channel if you look up

1581
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:02,280
Speaker 3: Amanda ray Are eight and then I also have Instagram

1582
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 3: amandatory Grant. I have a TikTok as well. I do

1583
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 3: kind of have a podcast, but like under construction right now.

1584
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,879
Speaker 3: The Colt to Crew podcast cool well, we will be back.

1585
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 2: But I hope. So thank you so much for talking

1586
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 2: to us. This has been awesome.

1587
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you so much for having me. It's nice

1588
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 3: to meet both. Well, I know Lola, but it's nice

1589
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 3: to meet you as well.

1590
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 5: Amanda.

1591
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,600
Speaker 1: Wow, I cannot wait to talk to Amanda again. She

1592
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:28,520
Speaker 1: is fascinating.

1593
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 2: Yes, thanks to Amanda for coming on. And we have

1594
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 2: some news that's it's vague still, but we are making

1595
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 2: some changes over here. We are actually moving homes, so

1596
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,559
Speaker 2: prepare for there to maybe be some weeks off and

1597
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:47,560
Speaker 2: maybe some some things seem a little different for a

1598
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 2: little while, but trust me, we will be back.

1599
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: And by homes you mean networks, not like our actual homes.

1600
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 2: No, I wanted everybody to know that we are moving

1601
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 2: apartments and they will be affected a buy that.

1602
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it might be a week off here or there,

1603
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 1: but we'll be back. And uh special thanks to podcast one,

1604
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: especially Steven Gabby, who we've loved so much.

1605
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 2: So indeed, we've had a wonderful team. But the future,

1606
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,880
Speaker 2: the future awaits us and we can't wait wait to

1607
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 2: bring you all with us.

1608
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed, indeed, did you just say indeed?

1609
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:24,480
Speaker 5: And then I'm saying indeed.

1610
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,639
Speaker 2: I don't know that's our thing now, Okay.

1611
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:30,559
Speaker 1: Well as always remember to follow your gut, watch out

1612
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:32,720
Speaker 1: for red flags, and never.

1613
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 2: Ever trust me.

1614
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 4: Bye bye.

1615
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rap and

1616
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1617
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:45,719
Speaker 5: The special thanks to Stacy Para.

1618
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 2: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1619
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1620
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:54,679
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult pod, or on TikTok at

1621
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1622
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1623
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 1: And I I'm Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1624
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:04,439
Speaker 1: Hits on Twitter.

1625
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:06,920
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.