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Speaker 1: On the bell cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the beck del cast written on the

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Speaker 1: pages is the answer to the never ending podcast? That's

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Speaker 1: a lot of them. That's some of ours. I mean

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Speaker 1: episodes that never end, and then the podcast itself never ending.

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Speaker 1: I'd be lying if a few different titles didn't come

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Speaker 1: to name when you said the never ending podcast. And

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Speaker 1: there's care to share, No, of course, not okay, but

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Speaker 1: um but I that was beautiful singing. I kind of

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Speaker 1: miss and I really enjoy when a movie starts with

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Speaker 1: a whole entire song playing and you just know who

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Speaker 1: everyone's name is. For some reason, that's very satisfying. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm being like lowered into a warm baths. Well.

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Speaker 1: This was also the era when there would be a

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Speaker 1: like three or four minute credit sequence where it's just

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Speaker 1: the credits and maybe some like vague images from the world,

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Speaker 1: but really just people's names on the screen, like the

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Speaker 1: first Tim Burton Batman movie, similar vibe, it's just the

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Speaker 1: bat signal and four minutes of credits and music, and

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Speaker 1: you're like yes, for some reason, I think maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: just like my either my brain is just slowly shrinking,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, wow, less stimulation. That was awesome. I

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Speaker 1: loved that. You're good. I'm so excited for today's episode.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bactel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Darante, and this is our show

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Speaker 1: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 1: the back test simply as a jumping off point to

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Speaker 1: initiate a larger conversation. Sure, as, Jamie, what is the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Test. Well, it's a media metric created by queer

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Speaker 1: cartoonist Alice and Bechdel, originally in her comic Dikes to

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Speaker 1: Watch Out For started kind of as a one off bit,

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Speaker 1: but has since become a commonly accepted media metric. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's called the Bechtel Wallace Test. A lot of versions

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Speaker 1: of the test. Oh, I'm like kind of feeling good

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Speaker 1: about how this ended. Sky, You're on a roll, Jamie.

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Speaker 1: A lot of versions of how this test go. Here's

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Speaker 1: the one we use. We require that there are two

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Speaker 1: characters of a marginalized gender with names who speak to

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Speaker 1: each other about something other than a man for two

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Speaker 1: lines of impactful dialogue. What does impactful mean? Well, like

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Speaker 1: it just open to interpretation, not nothing, you know. And

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Speaker 1: today we got a bit of a hit scratcher today. Um,

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Speaker 1: but we have an incredible movie, incredible returning guests, and

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to get started. Yes, we are covering

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Speaker 1: the never ending story with our guests. Who is a

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Speaker 1: writer and performer. You know her from Rutherford Falls and

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Speaker 1: more famously our episode on the Vitch. It's Janish meeting.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back. Thank you, thank you. I love

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Speaker 1: this podcast and I am so delighted an honor to

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Speaker 1: be a guest again. Oh my godness, We're so honored

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Speaker 1: to have you back, especially for one of my childhood hits. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Quite honestly, I'm so excited to hear you. What what

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Speaker 1: what's your like history and experience with this movie? Um, deep,

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Speaker 1: it's deep history. I grew up. I was born in

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Speaker 1: eighty one, so I grew up in the eighties with

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Speaker 1: you know, I think I might start a podcast about

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Speaker 1: this because I am so fascinating. I'm still fascinated by

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Speaker 1: how maccobb and and dark and like sci fi fantasy ish.

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Speaker 1: The eighties were in terms of cinema, like especially for kids,

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Speaker 1: like for children's content, trusting that kids can deal with

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Speaker 1: serious content and and grand grandiose content like high concept

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Speaker 1: stuff high concept like and like the practical effects of

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Speaker 1: the eighties like I mean so like I was born

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Speaker 1: and raised in that era of just like throwing all

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Speaker 1: kinds of insane shit at kids, And this was one

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Speaker 1: of my favorites. It was sort of like always in

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Speaker 1: the Library, along with Willow and The Last Unicorn and

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Speaker 1: you know, Legend and other weird, freaky things from the era.

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Speaker 1: I was getting pretty strong Labyrinth vibes as well as

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Speaker 1: Princess Bride upon Rewatching This God. That is a lot

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Speaker 1: of weird eighties kids movies. I I feel cheated, Oh,

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Speaker 1: as a child of the nineties, you mean, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just got a bunch of really loud cartoons. Not that

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Speaker 1: I do, but but I do love a really loud cartoon.

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Speaker 1: I do feel like the nineties sort of switched in

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Speaker 1: terms of like children's media. I feel like it made

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Speaker 1: a hard turn into like why a social drama. Like

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it just it wasn't as like fantastical

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Speaker 1: as the eighties were. And I'm so interested. This is

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Speaker 1: why I need to do a podcast about this, because

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Speaker 1: I'm so interested in why it was this way, and

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Speaker 1: it has to have something to do with you know,

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Speaker 1: Reagan era politics and you know the space wars and

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Speaker 1: you know all of that. What is it called not

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Speaker 1: Cold war? The same thing. But also I feel like

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Speaker 1: there was probably some space wars happening. There's like Sputnik,

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Speaker 1: there was certainly star wars happening, spaces space space right,

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Speaker 1: space wars. I kind of fem wondering. I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: wonder when that's going to come back around too, because

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Speaker 1: that does seem like the sort of thing that will

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Speaker 1: come back around if it hasn't already. And I just, um,

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Speaker 1: don't know any children right same? Um so so, Janna,

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Speaker 1: you just this is one of the movies. It was

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Speaker 1: just like in your rotation as a child, Yes, watched

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Speaker 1: it once a month probably Jamie, what about you? What's

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Speaker 1: your history? I had nothing. I knew the song, I

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Speaker 1: knew the kind of the basics of like it was

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Speaker 1: like a fantastical eighties kids movie. But I didn't grow

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Speaker 1: up with this one. Um. I don't know why, Like

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Speaker 1: I lived in a sci fi avoidant house. I resent

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Speaker 1: that UM and and have had to like sort of

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Speaker 1: do the sci fi um work on my own as

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Speaker 1: an adult. But yeah, I I just never came into

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Speaker 1: contact with this one. And you know, normally it takes

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours to prepare for a Bucktlecast episode,

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Speaker 1: but it took up like an entire day because I

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Speaker 1: watched it two times and then I wanted to know

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Speaker 1: about the writer, and the writer had this like kind

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Speaker 1: of really beautiful and inspiring marriage that was making me cry,

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Speaker 1: and I just like really went to another UM. I

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Speaker 1: went to Yeah, yeah, in a way I did, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: in a way I did beautiful. But I just had

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Speaker 1: like the best time. UM. I journaled about it. It

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Speaker 1: was like a whole thing. I'm so excited to talk

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Speaker 1: about this movie. It really affected me. I'm a new

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Speaker 1: but enthusiastic convert. Caitlin, what about you. I did see

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Speaker 1: this movie as a child, but it wasn't in my rotation. Really.

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Speaker 1: I think I saw it like probably once or twice

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Speaker 1: as a kid, but if I'm remembering correctly, Falcore freaked

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Speaker 1: me out. I could not I do see that, and

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Speaker 1: I was reminded of this when I was rewatching it

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Speaker 1: to prep for this episode, and I was once again

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Speaker 1: freaked out by Falcore. So freaky. If it's not Falcore,

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Speaker 1: it's the rock Bighter. If it's not the rock Bighter,

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Speaker 1: it's the bad guy. If it's the Oracle who shoots

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Speaker 1: lasers out of her tips, like this movie is terrifying.

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Speaker 1: It is. I think it would have been the bad

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Speaker 1: guy for me if I was a kid. Falcor though

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Speaker 1: it sort of like I had a moment where I'm like,

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Speaker 1: they don't make him like this anymore, and maybe that's

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Speaker 1: for the best, where like they where a tray is

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Speaker 1: like really getting in there scratching falcoor and Falcor is

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Speaker 1: making these kind of like he's making he's enjoying it

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Speaker 1: too much, and it just kind of goes on for

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Speaker 1: a little while. And then later when he gets like

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Speaker 1: that like shot, that huge shot or whatever, I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there's like a cracking noise. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Falcore is in it. Yeah. I don't know, but I

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Speaker 1: did love Falcore, but he was a little too into

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Speaker 1: the scratches. Not my best agree, And I also did

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Speaker 1: not enjoy that they basically made no effort to have

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Speaker 1: his mouth movements match up with his dialogue, very like

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Speaker 1: opening and closing of his mouth, and but he's like

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Speaker 1: speaking in full complex sentences. And I was also like,

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Speaker 1: I don't like this. I was kind of very charmed

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Speaker 1: by that. That's like there's like a needlessly detailed piece

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Speaker 1: about that somewhere because I used to be I feel

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Speaker 1: like I've talked about it on the show before. I

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Speaker 1: feel like, like animal mouths and how they move in

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Speaker 1: like practical effects or CG stuff has has such because

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Speaker 1: it's like foul core, there's no sync, and that doesn't

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Speaker 1: scare me. In the nineties, it kind of changes and

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Speaker 1: there's like an era where it's like real looking animals

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Speaker 1: that never blink, but their mouths are going like ma,

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Speaker 1: and that really scared me. I remember telling my uncle

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Speaker 1: I needed to leave a screening of cats and Dogs.

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Speaker 1: He's just gonna say, I was like freaking me out.

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Speaker 1: I was so disturbed by that overly active mouth I felt.

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Speaker 1: And now you have CG mouths that are kind of

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Speaker 1: like people mouths, and that's also kind of like this movie.

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Speaker 1: It's no one's quite gotten the whole mouth think correct.

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Speaker 1: No one can figure it out or then you have

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Speaker 1: like the live action remake of The Lion King, where

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Speaker 1: you have these like photo realistic animals who are just

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Speaker 1: also kind of like flapping their mouths open and closed

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Speaker 1: and just no one. The only talking animal in a

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Speaker 1: movie that looks awesome is Paddington. So and even then, sorry, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: not always like now there sometimes, especially when he's wet.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm like being on I'm just

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Speaker 1: being honest with you. I don't like how Paddington when

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Speaker 1: he's wet. I choose the best animal. I choose t

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Speaker 1: Rex from Jurassic Park. T Rex isn't speaking, and and

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Speaker 1: it's that's how it should be. Yeah, he's he's roaring

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Speaker 1: and it matches up and it looks good. Excuse me,

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Speaker 1: don't you mean she is roaring? Clever girl? Okay, you're

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Speaker 1: afraid of Falcore. And that's your history. That is my history.

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Speaker 1: And and I haven't seen there are two sequels which

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Speaker 1: we all kind of learned within the past ten minutes

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Speaker 1: before recording, and I haven't seen those. And there is

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Speaker 1: a novel that this movie is adapted from, which I

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Speaker 1: also have not read. So there's like source material. There's

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Speaker 1: a whole trilogy of movies, but I have pretty limited experience.

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Speaker 1: I would like to talk about the I mean I

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Speaker 1: did a little bit of research on the novel. AT

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Speaker 1: love to talk about it when you both once we've

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Speaker 1: recapped the movie, because it's it's really interesting. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to hear it. Well, let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and then we'll come back for the recap. And we

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Speaker 1: are back. Okay. We meet Bastion. He's a little boy.

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Speaker 1: He tells his dad about another dream he has had

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Speaker 1: about his mother, who has died recently, and his dad

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Speaker 1: is like, Bastion, it's time to move on. Stop daydreaming,

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Speaker 1: stop thinking about unicorns, and start facing your problems. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Bastion is like eight years old, and his dad like,

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Speaker 1: I know, I resent this term even though I've used

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Speaker 1: it so heavily, But like, his dad is a girl boss.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to explain because he gets your ass to work, Bastion,

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Speaker 1: Y do ye? Then his dad up and work. Then

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Speaker 1: his dad proceeds to drink a bunch of raw eggs

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Speaker 1: that he blended in the blender and then just drinks

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Speaker 1: as a drink. Now that is what scares me, the

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Speaker 1: dad and the raw eggs. That has always always gotten

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Speaker 1: my goat since I was a kid. I was like,

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Speaker 1: what the hell is he making? What is this? He

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Speaker 1: is into Jordan Peterson. Now wherever that dad is he

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Speaker 1: found Jordan Peterson and is eating raw meat somewhere. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was like I had to rewind to make sure

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Speaker 1: that is what in fact happened. There is like something

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Speaker 1: so I think, like again, just like, there's so many

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Speaker 1: elements of this movie that feel like rare of like oh,

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Speaker 1: you never see anything like that, Like a parent that

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Speaker 1: just like or just an adult who's like refusing to

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Speaker 1: grieve in a way that is like alarming, which is

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Speaker 1: so common. But you're like, oh, and this guy it's

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Speaker 1: manifesting in going to work and drinking eggs. Like all right,

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Speaker 1: potential homophobia I was getting. I had never read read

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Speaker 1: into this deeply, but when I was watching yesterday, I

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Speaker 1: was like, Bastia is showing some very clear signs of

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Speaker 1: being like a young gay boy who is really into fantasy.

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Speaker 1: And not to like position him as that, but like

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Speaker 1: the dad being like, come on, what about sports? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to gym class anymore. It's like, oh God,

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Speaker 1: why aren't you drinking eggs? With your pops, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did feel like he was like really pushing like

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Speaker 1: a hyper masculine like I was trying to articulate in

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Speaker 1: that my notes, because I was just like, it's not

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Speaker 1: that like reading books or an interest in fantasy is feminine,

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Speaker 1: but that's the way that dad was framing it. So

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Speaker 1: it was bizarre. Yes, well it also seemed in my

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Speaker 1: sorry to harp on this, but to me, like when

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Speaker 1: I was watching it yesterday, I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: get it. Like the death of the mom is sort

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Speaker 1: of like the death of the imagination of the household,

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Speaker 1: like the death of dreams, the death of like self acceptance,

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Speaker 1: like all of these magical, sort of ethereal things like

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Speaker 1: I had I had even forgotten that Fashion's mom had

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Speaker 1: died and that that's what was going on in his life.

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Speaker 1: It's so quickly skimmed over in this movie that like

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Speaker 1: it is glossed over, but then it comes back hard. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: because he's like, my mom had a name, and that's

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Speaker 1: going to be the new name of the Empress. And

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Speaker 1: then it was like his mom's name was Moonchild. That's

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Speaker 1: so cool, that's awesome. Is that what it is? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that's what he yells out what he has he

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Speaker 1: has moonchilds I've never known what it is all my life.

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Speaker 1: I have never known what the name is. I can't

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Speaker 1: understand what he's saying, and the in the subtitles did

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Speaker 1: not say they just said yelling. I had to google it.

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Speaker 1: I feel like maybe they keep it intentionally low so

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Speaker 1: you can like project whatever you want onto it, because

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Speaker 1: I couldn't understand it either. And then I googled it

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Speaker 1: and it said Moonchild. And then it was like earlier

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Speaker 1: he was like, my mom had the most beautiful name.

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Speaker 1: I was like, damn, Bastian, you're right, Yeah, that's an

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Speaker 1: awesome name. Child Child. Yeah. I watched it twice, and

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Speaker 1: the first time I think it was on maybe HBO Max.

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Speaker 1: But since then, within the past week, it has been

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Speaker 1: taken off of that platform. But whatever platform I watched

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Speaker 1: it on initially, the subtitles are there and it says Moonchild.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I think I watched it on I

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Speaker 1: rented it on Apple and that it almost seemed like

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Speaker 1: I was reading another dialects interpretation subtitles. Yeah. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: so the point is Bastion's mom has passed away. I

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Speaker 1: think we're to understand that, like his immersion in like

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Speaker 1: books and fantasy is like a way that he's coping

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Speaker 1: with his loss. I'm not totally sure, but anyway, he

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Speaker 1: reads a lot of books and his dad hates it.

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Speaker 1: Um he's like math and eggs and Jim class. So

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Speaker 1: on his way to school, some bullies chase Bastion and

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Speaker 1: he goes into this building to hide, where he meets

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Speaker 1: a man who is reading a particular book. It's his Santa. Basically,

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Speaker 1: it's how I was because it's like the role and

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Speaker 1: maybe it's just because we just did our like holiday

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Speaker 1: segment from like, oh, mysterious older man with white hair

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Speaker 1: who gives you a critical prop and then never shows

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Speaker 1: up again. It's his Santa, yes, exactly, and so Santa

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Speaker 1: is like, kid, the books you read are safe and yeah,

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Speaker 1: sure you can escape into the story, but you can

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Speaker 1: close the book and become a little boy again. But

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Speaker 1: the books I read aren't like that, and passions like

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Speaker 1: what And then the man gets up to answer the

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Speaker 1: phone and Bastion takes a closer look at this book

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Speaker 1: he's reading called The Never Ending Story. Hey, that's the

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Speaker 1: name of the movie. And then Bastion steals the book

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Speaker 1: and runs off. He heads to school, but he's late

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Speaker 1: for the math test, so he just skips it and

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Speaker 1: goes to the attic and starts reading The never Ending Story.

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Speaker 1: What a legend and iconic I wish I wouldn't. I

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Speaker 1: would never but it's because I'm not. I'm not as

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Speaker 1: brave as him. He's so brave. Once he starts reading,

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Speaker 1: we are transported into the world of Fantasia. We are

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Speaker 1: in this dense forest where a couple peculiar people and

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Speaker 1: creatures are gathered round a fire, and then this huge

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Speaker 1: guy made of stone comes crashing in, but he's friendly

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Speaker 1: and he wants to join them, and he eats rocks,

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Speaker 1: and he's describing how a nothingness is spreading across the

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Speaker 1: land where like a place used to exist, but now

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Speaker 1: there's nothing there. So he is going to the Ivory

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Speaker 1: Tower to talk to the Empress about it. And then

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Speaker 1: the other people are like, we are on that exact

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Speaker 1: same mission. Let's go right fucking now, So they get

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Speaker 1: on their racing snails and their bats and they set

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Speaker 1: off and arrive at the Ivory Tower, only to learn

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Speaker 1: that the Empress has fallen ill. So now they're only

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Speaker 1: hope of stopping this spreading of the nothingness. Is a

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Speaker 1: warrior named a tray You who lives among the plains.

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Speaker 1: People who hunt purple buffalo are arguably, you know, some

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Speaker 1: heavy cultural appropriation that as a Native person, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go ahead and just ignore it, right, I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna forgive it immediately, Okay, because as the characters are

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Speaker 1: describing a tray You, we cut back to Bastion and

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00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: he looks at his like book bag or something, and

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Speaker 1: then there's like a Native person hunting a buffalo and

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Speaker 1: he's like, it's the same, yeah, and it is. It's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's I forgot I always there's so many things about

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Speaker 1: this movie that I forgot about or just truly it

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00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 1: just didn't ever ring any alarms growing up. But I also,

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Speaker 1: like have recently been having this like really annoying discussion

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Speaker 1: in my peer group and my native peer group about

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Speaker 1: like Avatar and the way that like Native Indigenous people

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Speaker 1: are like mythified and and sort of like romanticized in media.

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Speaker 1: And this is like a fucking direct exampit. Yes, for sure, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's but you know what a Trayo is, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: Lakota warrior, I whatever. I don't care who what Italian

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Speaker 1: country you hail from or your ancestors do you're in

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Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, I kept looking for, like,

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Speaker 1: any um like the author of the book, Michael Endy,

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Speaker 1: who is German making any like clear like and this

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Speaker 1: is where I was pulling from. But he didn't seem

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Speaker 1: to ever say anything specific, and so any critics like

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Speaker 1: any like reviews or in positive or negative of the book,

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00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: or just like Endy appears to be pulling from what

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00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: he may have once heard or possibly remembered about Indigenous Americans.

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Speaker 1: And you're like, yes, yeah, it sounds like a vague

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00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: remembering appropriative. I don't know, Well, this is something that

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00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 1: you might find very interesting, Jamie and um listeners is

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00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 1: especially the Lakota Nation, Like the Lakota Nation has so

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00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: much lower like pop like media lore around it, especially

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00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: because I think they're depicted in a lot of Westerns

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Speaker 1: and what have you. But in the seventies and eighties

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Speaker 1: German people like weird sort of hippie fringe groups started.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how the transference happened, whether it was

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00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 1: somebody who came over and was invited to Sundance or something.

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Speaker 1: But German people started putting on Powow's full regalia, uh,

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00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: singing in drum groups like completely and they started putting

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Speaker 1: on Sundance, which is like a very like sacred ceremony

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00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: that like a lot of Native people have never been

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Speaker 1: invited to Sundance, Like it's just like so exclusive and

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00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 1: it's exclusive to like the planes nations. And there's this

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Speaker 1: really big language Lakota language issue happening right now with

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Speaker 1: this organization that is founded by a German Man who

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00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,399
Speaker 1: it basically took stories and language from Lacoda elders and

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00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: re like patented it and sold it back to the tribes.

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Speaker 1: Sucking insidious. And you can find videos of German people

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Speaker 1: like on YouTube, like German people doing specifically Lakota practices

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00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 1: in their way of course, completely bastardized and they don't

359
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: have any you know. But there is this really weird link,

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Speaker 1: especially in the seventies and eighties, where Indigenous people have

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Speaker 1: been truly like romanticized by German folks especially. That's so

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Speaker 1: I didn't know any of that. That's really fucked and

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Speaker 1: like and would totally line up kind of with Michael.

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Speaker 1: I mean this the book was published in seventy nine,

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Speaker 1: so that makes total sense. Oh my god. Okay, well then,

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Speaker 1: and then I find it kind of even more baffling

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Speaker 1: than he that he never said anything specifically. That's oh

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Speaker 1: my god. Yeah, it just might have been in there,

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00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: in there zeitgeist a little bit, like it just was

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00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: something that they kind of cared about, maybe not predominantly,

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00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: but like it was there. Weirdly interesting because I know

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00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: that Endy was like a humanist, like he and his

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00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: wife were really into the heat like it it seems okay,

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00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: so like maybe it wasn't just like a vague like

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Speaker 1: it's possible that he actually had attempted to learn about

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Speaker 1: indigenous culture in an insidious, fucked up way maybe, or

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00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: it just might have been in his might have just

378
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: been around like osmosis kind of thing. That's so bizarre.

379
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: Why I want to know more about that? Interesting? Well,

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00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: so a tray you shows up to the Ivory Tower

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Speaker 1: and he is a child, and everyone's like, we weren't

382
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: expecting a child, but I guess we have no other options.

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Speaker 1: So hey, I try you go find a cure for

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Speaker 1: the Empress and save our world from the nothing. So

385
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: I try sets off on his quest and he searches

386
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: high and low and can't find any cure or solution,

387
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: so he decides to seek out more Law, a wise

388
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: being who lives on shell Mountain in the swamp of Sadness,

389
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: for help, and along the way his horse are attacks,

390
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: succumbs to the sadness of the swamp and sinks and

391
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: dies in a really devastating moment. Yeah, saddest eighties cinematic

392
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 1: moment short of et almost dying on the ship. And

393
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: that happened so early in the movie. It's like the

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00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: sad and and and it's like there's plenty of sad

395
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: moments later, but I was, um, I was not prepared

396
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: for it. I mean, I like, it's weird to be like,

397
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: I loved that, but like it's just so miraculous and

398
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: wild to me that they put that in the movie

399
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: at all, because it feels so clearly like an allegory

400
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: for like losing someone to depression and like to suicide.

401
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: And then you're just like, but it's a horse, and

402
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: I'm crying so much like it. That was a beautiful,

403
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: really dark, funked up up. Jenny, you should make this podcast.

404
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, how did they do that how is that allowed?

405
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: I know, the ship that they were showing us kids

406
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 1: in the eighties was wild. But the horse gets too

407
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: I was, like I wrote down in mys like horse

408
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: gets so depressed it dies question mark Like uh, and

409
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: then you and then a tray You was like begging,

410
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 1: like please don't give into the sadness, like keep going,

411
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: you can do this. And then it doesn't work. You

412
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: expect in a kids movie, Sure there's gonna be tension.

413
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: You're you think, maybe, oh no, the horse might die,

414
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: but you know, in the back of your mind like

415
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: probably not though probably it's gonna be fine. Probably they're

416
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: not going to kill an animal in a children's movie,

417
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: but nope, are attacks. The horse dies in the first

418
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: acts or early in the second act. And it's also

419
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: like in talking in like opening it up to the

420
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: idea of you know, depression and suicide. Like the evil

421
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: force at play here is called the nothing and like

422
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: the fact that what they are fighting is this unstoppable

423
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: wave of nothingness, lack of meaning, Like lack of meaning

424
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: is going to overcome us and dislocate us and like

425
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: destroy everything in its wake. And and it is such

426
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: a huge allegory, you know, for I think like a

427
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: lot of different things. Like I think there's so many

428
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: interpretations my kind of like first and possibly the most

429
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: simple one that occurred to me was like a coming

430
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: of age allegory and this idea of you know, maintaining

431
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: your childlike imagination and curiosity being a good thing even

432
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: though society encourages you to lose those things as you

433
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: get older and more mature. There's like a shades of

434
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: like climate change and you know, like climate crisis and

435
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: these bigger concepts that I didn't read into when I

436
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: was a kid. I just accepted like The Nothing as like, oh, yeah,

437
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: the Nothing creepy a villain. Yeah, I mean it's and

438
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: it I liked how the movie I don't know, maybe

439
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: this is like why I like knocked me on my

440
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: ass was it was like, oh, the movie can kind

441
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: of like meet you where you're wherever you're at. And like, however,

442
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: like it's very open to interpretation. Where I was reading

443
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: it as like a grief story and like Fantasia as

444
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: like representing the memory of his mom, and so when

445
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: the Empress is calling out to him at the end,

446
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: it's like if he doesn't actively engage with her memory,

447
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: then it disappears, it goes away, and like you have

448
00:28:55,080 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: to rebuild it, and there's so many crying, crying, crying ship.

449
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: It's heavy, it's heavy. Okay, So a tray you finds

450
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: shell Mountain in the swamp, but more La doesn't live

451
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: on shell Mountain. More La is shell mountain because he's

452
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: a giant turtle. Also, we are periodically cutting back to

453
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: Bastion in the attic as he's reading this book, and

454
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: when Bastion learns about the giant turtle, he screams. He's

455
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: like startled and scared and he screams, and it seems

456
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: like a trey. You and more La can hear Bastion's scream.

457
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: What's all that about? Do you think? And then they

458
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: just kind of go back to what they were doing.

459
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: Morla is like, anyways, I'm allergic to young people, which

460
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: is sometimes how I feel. And more La is grumpy Auntie.

461
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: I love a fan of mor La. I I love her.

462
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like she is a huge bitch and

463
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: it was clearly ruining her life to be such a

464
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: huge bitch all the time. But I also felt seen,

465
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: wait more okay, I I thought more Law was a

466
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: male turtle. I guess I misinterpreted that voice. No more

467
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: was definitely a gal a lady turtle gender non specific

468
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: in my opinion. Either way, Bitchy Energy was like, well,

469
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: I certainly can't help you, because even being near your

470
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: youthful optimism is making me basically ill. Morla is a man,

471
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: he's giving gay grandpa who never wanted to have kids.

472
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: It still doesn't good for Marla, but also you know

473
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: their loss in life. I guess, um, okay, So a

474
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: tray You is like, hey, Morla, can you help? But

475
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: more La is like no, But I guess you could

476
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: go to the Southern Oracle for help. But the Southern

477
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: Oracle is ten thousand miles away, so good luck with that.

478
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: But really you should just give up. But a tray

479
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: You is not about to give up. He sets off again,

480
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: and unbeknownst to him, this scary wolf creature Go Mork

481
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: is tracking him along the way. A tray You is struggling.

482
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: He's about to sink into the swamp of sadness. Go

483
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: Mark is about to eat him. But just then a

484
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: dragon dog thing that really upset me as a child,

485
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: named Falcore the luck dragon flies in and scoops a

486
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: tray you up, and then he wakes up a few

487
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: days later and Falcore is like, hey, what's up. I

488
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: will take you to the Southern Oracle slash where already

489
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: almost there, but first a tray you meets these small people,

490
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: a married couple who hate each other named Angie Wook

491
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: and Ergyle Get out of My Light Wench is kind

492
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: of like how he enters the story. Yes, he calls

493
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: his wife and his wife a wench so many times.

494
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: They hate each other. They hate each other, and they

495
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: eat worms. I think, which I'm more insupportive there. I

496
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: feel like it's very very possible that I was. Um.

497
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: I liked her so much that I was like overly

498
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: like trying to be like this is awesome, but I

499
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: liked that, Like okay, was it Angie Wook and who

500
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: Ergyle Ergyle? So like Angie Wook's whole thing is He's like,

501
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: I'm a scientist, Get out of my life, wen and

502
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: she is like, she makes home remedies, she's making medicine.

503
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: So they are doing the same thing. They're both doing science.

504
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: And she appears to know that her husband obviously doesn't,

505
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: and she's like, that's a waste of time. To explain

506
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: it to him whatever, And I was like, I wonder,

507
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, I want to believe that that was

508
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: like pretty intentional of like they're doing the same job.

509
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: He just thinks his work is worthy of respect and

510
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: hers isn't. Yes, that's the vibe I get. He has

511
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: always in my mind, even as a child, I was

512
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: always like, why does this guy think he's such a

513
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: the fucking cockital walk Like she's the one who's holding

514
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: the ship down. All you did was make a telescope,

515
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: Like I mean, not that I could do that, but

516
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: also like she makes like she she heals falcor, she

517
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: gives him that big scary shot that cracked his spine

518
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: open or something. She heels a tray you, and and

519
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: also it seems like in the scene a tray you

520
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,760
Speaker 1: is very much more like with her of like, yeah,

521
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: this guy, like angy book is kind of ridiculous, but

522
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: here him out. He's got this plot telescope that you need,

523
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: that he needs to spy on people who are trying

524
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: to cross the Southern Oracle, but not do nothing for them.

525
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: Just just watch how is that science? I just was like,

526
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: just watches they get electrocuted and then gets excited about

527
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: it either way, right, and then he got mad because

528
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: he couldn't watch someone get electrocuted. I like, what is

529
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: your what is your life like? Relax wicky book or

530
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: whatever the funk? Your name is inky Dick Dick. Also

531
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: interesting that also in um Princess Bride there's like a

532
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: cromudgeny couple too, you know, played by Billy Crystal and um,

533
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: what's that comedian's name that I love? Um, I know

534
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: exactly never going to remember Carol Kane, Carol Kane Kane.

535
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: I was getting similar similar vibes there as well. Um, okay,

536
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: so we've got Andie wooking Urgle and Andy Wooke is

537
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: all like, okay, tray you, you're going to have to

538
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: pass through these gates to get to the Southern Oracle,

539
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: and to tray You was like, cool, I'm going to

540
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: try it, even though he just saw another guy get

541
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: zapped by the first gate, but he's like, I got this.

542
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: And he goes to the first gate and these two

543
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: like sphinx statues with huge boobs nipples. They're very sexy statues. Yeah,

544
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: and it was like, again, good for you eighties, those

545
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: are really sexy statues you put in the kids movie,

546
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: and as a kid, I was just like, oh my god,

547
00:35:52,280 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: the boobs big real one and tray You manages to

548
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,959
Speaker 1: get through the first gate because he stays confident. Then

549
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: at the second gate, the magic mirror gate, a trey

550
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: You has to face his true self, and a trey

551
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: You seems to see Bastion in the reflection, which freaks

552
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: Bastion out and he throws the book across the room.

553
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: But then he's like, you know what, I'm going to

554
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: keep reading. Let's see what happens. It's already seven pm,

555
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: I've already missed dinner. I know my dad's care about me,

556
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: and I'm going to spend the night in this school

557
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,919
Speaker 1: at it my dad chugging a dozen eggs at home,

558
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: like he's like not, that's how he's handling the grief somehow,

559
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 1: that means he's not sober um because I just think

560
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: it's like he doesn't drink, but he gets really fucked

561
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: up on the eggs. I that was one of my questions.

562
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: I was like, does Bastion stay there all night reading

563
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: this book? And if so, does his dad not care

564
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: where he is? That's the implication I feel like, and honestly,

565
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: based on how Bastion's dad was coming off at the beginning.

566
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: I wasn't like super bumped by that. I was like, yeah,

567
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: this is the kind of parent that um is not

568
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: really thinking about where their kid is. And also I

569
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe that like it's a it's a

570
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: like late twentieth century thing where your kids could just

571
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: kind of be out and around and you're like, man,

572
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: I'll be back. I mean, I was a latchkey kid

573
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: kind of. So there's there's a heavy sort of latch

574
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: key vibes going on with Bastion. Sure, So he keeps

575
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: reading the book and tray You finds the Southern Oracle,

576
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: which are two more statues also with big boobs, who

577
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: tell a tray You that in order to save the Empress,

578
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: she simply needs to be given a new name. But

579
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: no one from Fantasia can do that. They need a

580
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,959
Speaker 1: human boy from Earth to give her a new name.

581
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: Bastions like, they should ask me, my mom had an

582
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: awesome name. Then a tray You heads back to the

583
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: Ivory Tower on Falcore, but on the way the nothing

584
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: blows a tray You off Falcore's back and he ends

585
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: up in like the land of the rock biters, which

586
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: we saw one of the rock biters at the beginning.

587
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: He talks to one of them and then go Mork,

588
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: the scary wolf thing is there and he's about to

589
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: eat a tray you. And he's like, yeah, Fantasia is

590
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: this human fantasy and it's dying because humans started to

591
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: lose their hope and that's why the Nothing is erasing everything. Yeah,

592
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: he he states the themes of the movie. He's like,

593
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: this movie was in a way about authoritarianism. If you

594
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: didn't pick that up, I'm a wolf puppet. It was

595
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: about fascism and it's dangers. So like I love that

596
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: scene and and is like an agent of the Nothing.

597
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 1: So a tray you is like, well, fuck you. And

598
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 1: he stabs in another scene that I was surprised as

599
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: in a children's movie because it's violent. It's bloody, you see,

600
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: like lots of blood. Badass. It's badass. Have have I

601
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: not been saying for years now? Is like, we should

602
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: be allowed to kill the evil villain if they're truly,

603
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: truly profoundly evil in the way that Gomor is. It's

604
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: so satisfying. Yeah, it's like, we don't need a we

605
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: don't need a like a redemption arc for Gomork. No,

606
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: that's why I can't stand like Marvel movies and Ship.

607
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, kill these motherfucker's sorry, it's fantasy. Also, I

608
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: just want to say, before the Mork slaughter, we can

609
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: call it a fight, it's not a slaughter. Um attacks

610
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: and then he just happens to be holding the knife. Um.

611
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: But when he has the conversation with the rock Biter,

612
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: it's also another tier jerky moment in the movie. I

613
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: found when the rock Bier, this big unstoppable beast of

614
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 1: made of stone, is like all of my friends are gone,

615
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 1: Like all of the people I love are gone, and

616
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: there's nothing left of us, like even the rocks have disappeared.

617
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: It's just like God, why, Yeah, that that scene really

618
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 1: sucked me up. It's it's so like it's so heavy

619
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: and it's and it's like a traio is fully engaging

620
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: with it, and it's just like there's no real solution

621
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: to the scene. They're both just like talking to each

622
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: other about like how they feel that they have failed

623
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: others and how the world has failed them. And that's

624
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: just like the whole scene. Yeah, it's really beautiful. I

625
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: really I love the rock eater. I mean, I think

626
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: because it's he really did everything he could. He did

627
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: his damn best, and I hated to see him down

628
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: at the end. I mean, he'll be spoilt, he'll be back,

629
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: He'll be fine riding his big stone wheelbarrow power wheel. Try.

630
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: It reminded me of like when you're like, if you're

631
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: ice skating as a kid, it's like the little penguin

632
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: that you hold so you don't fall over it like that.

633
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: I thought of it as you know, as an eighties kid.

634
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: A big wheel, like a rock big whale, and that

635
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: is way more likely than the very obscure ice skating

636
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: thing I was describing. Well again, that's the beauty of

637
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: this movie. There are so many ways to interpret it.

638
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: Think is possible? Yeah, okay, So a Trey You has

639
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: killed more. Falcore shows back up and a tray You

640
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: and Falcore returned to the Ivory Tower and a tray

641
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: You is like, hey, Empress, I'm so sorry, but I failed,

642
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: and she's like, no, you didn't. You brought the human

643
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: earth Boy with you, and he's like what I did?

644
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: And Bastions like what are they talking about? Me? And

645
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: the Ivory Tower is crumbling and there's chaos and to

646
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 1: try you was like, well, where the hell is this boy?

647
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: And Bastion finally realizes that he needs to do something.

648
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: He needs to give the Empress a new name, so

649
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: he like goes to the window. It's like lightning and storms,

650
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: and he screams something that's pretty indiscernible, but everyone's like,

651
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: my mom's name, Like I feel like that. I feel

652
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: like that's why you can't hear it. Well, is you're

653
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: supposed to be projecting something else onto it? Yeah, but

654
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: canonically he says moon Child, so he screams it out,

655
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: and then we cut to a scene with Bastion and

656
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: the Empress in darkness. Fantasia has disappeared, but it can

657
00:42:54,800 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: be reborn from Bastion's wishes and dreams and imagination, so

658
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: he uses that to rebuild Fantasia. And so then we

659
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: see all the characters that we've seen throughout the movie,

660
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: Tray You and his horse, the rock biter, deep Roy

661
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: and his snail, et cetera. And then we see Bastion

662
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: riding on Falcore and he's like, what else do you

663
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: wish for? And passions like I want to go and

664
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: funk up those bullies from the beginning of the movie.

665
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: So he does that. He has a realistic child in

666
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: paulse He's like, I want to ride a dragon and

667
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 1: murder everyone who's ever been mean to me. Like, yeah, yep,

668
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: and that's the movie. So let's take a quick break

669
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: and we will come back to discuss. And we're back.

670
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: Before we get into the discussion, can I tell you

671
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: what happens in the of the book? Would love to hear.

672
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: It was really really interesting to me. So I'm pulling

673
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: heavily from an article by a writer named Helen Decruz.

674
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: The article is called what we can learn from the

675
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: never Ending Story Authoritarianism, Fascism, and the Power of Imagination.

676
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: It's like, buckle up, wait what you said. The book

677
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: was written in the seventies and was a big hit

678
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: in Germany and then was like translated, and so the

679
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: kind of production history is that Michael Endy, the author,

680
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: was originally very very excited that they wanted to make

681
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: a movie of his work. He sold the rights to

682
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: the work for fifty tho dollars, which is not nothing

683
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: even in nine eighties money. That's nothing for the amount

684
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 1: of like times, I feel like that's just my viewing

685
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: that He's bath is my it's so and I feel

686
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 1: like we've covered I'm trying to think of a comparable example,

687
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: but it's like writers get screwed all the time in

688
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 1: ways like that, or people with life rights, or like

689
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: any sort of adaptation stuff like you hear so many

690
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: stories like that. But he was originally like, this is great,

691
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: like a German director wants to adapt my work. This

692
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: is amazing, not realizing I think what happens in a

693
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: lot of those cases, which is that once you have

694
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: sold the rights, you have very little control over what

695
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: they do with it. So he's assuming his whole book

696
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: is going to get adapted. He's thrilled, as is Um.

697
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: His wife. He has like this is like very ancillary,

698
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: but I enjoyed reading about it. He had this like long,

699
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: it seems like kind of very beautiful relationship with a

700
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: German actress named Ingeborg Hoffman, who Um was a pretty

701
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: successful German actress and had a had a huge hand

702
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: in in kickstarting his career. I feel like you often

703
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,439
Speaker 1: hear the story in their verse, but she like used

704
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,399
Speaker 1: a lot she thought he was a really talented writer

705
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: and used a lot of her connections to like kind

706
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: of get him his start writing, and they had a

707
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: very close collaborative relationships. So even though India is the

708
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: credited author, he would always say like, well, but like,

709
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 1: none of my work would exist if I wasn't in

710
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: this relationship with this amazing person, which I thought was

711
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: very nice. But anyways, he grows to really hate the

712
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: fact that this movie is being made because they're like, Okay,

713
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: it makes the most sense for the three acts structure

714
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: and for like the ethos of Hollywood in the eighties

715
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: to just adapt the first half. So the movie we

716
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,919
Speaker 1: see is just the first half of the book, which

717
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: I think kind of leaves it ending on this very

718
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: optimistic note of like, you know, Bastion is going to

719
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: rebuild Fantasia, which is called Fantastica in the book. Who

720
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: knows why, But I just want to quote Helen dacruzz

721
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 1: recap of the second half of the book because it's

722
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 1: quick and it's good. So the differences in the book,

723
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: as far as as I can tell, it's very very similar,

724
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: except a big difference that it seems like Andy was

725
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: very intentional about was that Bastion was bullied because he

726
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: was fat and because he was like considered to not

727
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: be traditionally intelligent. So in the book, like it's constantly referenced,

728
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: especially that like Bastian has extreme issues with his own

729
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: body and how people talk about him, including his father

730
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: and including his bullies. That's like inherent to the character

731
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 1: in a way that is not adapted in the movie.

732
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 1: Um so here's the recap quote. In the second half

733
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: of the book, Bastian creates Fantastica, a new he can

734
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: do what he wishes. Oh. The other difference is that

735
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: when people in Fantasia or Fantastica die or are lost

736
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: to the Nothing, they turn into lies in the human world,

737
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: which is not It gets very like philosophical, and I'm like,

738
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm not smart enough to understand what he's trying to

739
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: say here, but like, if you are a dragon that

740
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: is consumed by the nothing, you turn into a lie

741
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: that is told on earth. That is how you. So

742
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: there's like a direct consequence to the real world, Like

743
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 1: you become fake news, you become a Tucker Carlson episode

744
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: in the real world. It's really like it's clear that, like,

745
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 1: and he's trying to like do something, but anyway, Okay,

746
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: So Bastian creates fantastic A new he can do what

747
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: he wishes, protected by the ambulant r in, which gives

748
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: him amazing strength and ability. It also gives him the

749
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 1: physical shape he believes he wants. He is no longer

750
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: short or fat, but tall and athletic. Clearly, Bastian loathes

751
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: himself as he truly is, and this self loathing distorts

752
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: his relationship to fantastic Tka. His wishes are clear wish

753
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: fulfillment that slowly erode his sense of true identity. Each

754
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: wish he makes, he loses part of his memory. Soon,

755
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 1: Bastian falls under the spell of a cunning witch who

756
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: aims to use him for her own purposes. He loses

757
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 1: his friends, including a tray You in the luck dragon Falcore,

758
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: as he turns against them. Bastian's lack of memories and

759
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: proper self respect ultimately propel him to almost crown himself

760
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: the Emperor of Fantastica after the childlike Empress disappeared without warning,

761
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: has given him the orne and all of his wishes

762
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: came true. He believes this is a sign that he

763
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: is her successor um so it totally undoes the work

764
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: that happens in the first movie, and it becomes this,

765
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: Like I think that the way it's written about is

766
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: that this is an authoritarian kind of like cautionary tale.

767
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: The way that it's written and the moral as I've

768
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: read it, it goes on. It goes on for a while,

769
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: but like Bastion, by acquiring power and then like altering

770
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: himself to look the way that he believes he should

771
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: and like exerting power over others ends up ruining Fantastica

772
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 1: a second time. And it's not until he can accept

773
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: himself as he truly is and love himself as he

774
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: truly is physically, emotionally and everything else that he's able

775
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 1: to truly like engage with this fantastic world he's created responsibly.

776
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: So the it's a real Kardashian tale. It's wild, yeah,

777
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: and I I mean i read it, I was like,

778
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. I'd be interested to read it. But

779
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: I get why that's not in the movie. That's so depressed,

780
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: Like it's really, um, I don't know. Yeah, the second

781
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: half of the book is wild. So Endy was really

782
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: angry that they only adapted the first half and he

783
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 1: believes that seeing the movie killed his wife, which is

784
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 1: another while his wife did see the movie and went

785
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: home and went to bed and never woke up. Are

786
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: you kidding me? No, it is so bizarre. Yeah, she

787
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: saw a screening of it and she was like, I

788
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: didn't like it, and then she died. First of all,

789
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: happen to not like it first, and most importantly ingrid

790
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: but yeah, fascinating, Um I too. And then to supplement

791
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: your research, Jamie, And I'm pulling this from scholarly journal Wikipedia. Yet,

792
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: the second half of the book was eventually used as

793
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: a rough basis for the second film, never ending story

794
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: to the next chapter released in n UM. I have

795
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: not read the book, nor have seen that movie, so

796
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:06,800
Speaker 1: I and speak god how that adaptation goes. I have watched,

797
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 1: I have seen the second movie, and I have very

798
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: few memories of it. It certainly was not as impactful

799
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: as the first. I remember feeling like Jonathan Brandis is

800
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: trying to take the place of my bastion played by

801
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: uh Barrett Oliver, and I couldn't handle it. I hated it.

802
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: It's like when when the older sister in Roseanne comes

803
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: back as a different actor. I would just like rejected it,

804
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: feel like I refuse. Yeah, no, I I enjoyed reading

805
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: about Barrett Oliver because he was like one of the

806
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: kind of child stars that he was like in a

807
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: bunch of stuff in the eighties, and then he was like,

808
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: wait a second, highly recommend that everybody watches another movie

809
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: that Barrett Oliver. Barrett Oliver is like of my time,

810
00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: Like the movie Darryl is another one of these eighties

811
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: mind fux. It's terrifying and strange. I've ever heard of it.

812
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: What is it about? I think it was like a

813
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 1: Disney made for TV movie. But it's about this kid

814
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: that he's found and abandoned in a mountain by a

815
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: family and they sort of like take him to scientists

816
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: because he has all these special abilities. And I can't

817
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: remember why he has special abilities. Perhaps he's like psychic

818
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 1: or just like he's just like a kid who is magical,

819
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: and it's just a very strange orphan fantasy. I don't know.

820
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: He's also in Cocoon. Yes, yeah, this kid, this kid

821
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 1: was little. I just love when a child stairs extremely

822
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: prolific and then they're like I'm out of here, because

823
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,640
Speaker 1: then what he does is he then becomes a really

824
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 1: specific scholar. He's like a scholar on in like nineteen

825
00:53:53,920 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: century photography processes. Now that's yeah, that's he's he's just chilling,

826
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: yeah for him, I know, yeah, I I didn't know

827
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: any of that until like doing a little bit of

828
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,720
Speaker 1: prep for this episode about all of that adaptation stuff

829
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,800
Speaker 1: and how the author of the source material got screwed

830
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: over and then his wife died after he did kill

831
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: his wife that he loved so much, and then but

832
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: I would side. I mean, honestly, I think that like

833
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,439
Speaker 1: the worst part of this is that he got so

834
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,120
Speaker 1: financially sucked over, because it sounds like they continued to

835
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: use his work in future adaptations. I don't imagine he

836
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,720
Speaker 1: was paid again. But as far as like the portion

837
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: of I feel like the story, the half of the

838
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: story they adapt is like it works. I don't know,

839
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. What studio produced it? Like? Where did it? Good? Question?

840
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: It was like it was shot in a lot of

841
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: it was shot in Germany because it's German. It's a

842
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: German director of Germany. Peterson, Yeah, because he directed a

843
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: movie I've only heard set out loud. Does Boots Boot

844
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: is very famous German film. Yeah, it's like that's the

845
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:15,959
Speaker 1: germanist film I could think of a war movie, I think, so. Yeah.

846
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: So I'm like, why did they give him the never

847
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: ending story? I don't really understand. But he did a job. Oh,

848
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: and then he went on to I didn't realize that

849
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: he's the director of Air Force one and Outbreak, and

850
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: so he like it seems transitioned at least partially into

851
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,439
Speaker 1: like American cinema. He also directed The Perfect Storm. Oh

852
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: and Troy Okay Poseidon there was a time on the

853
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: action adventure. Yeah. The Perfect Storm goes down in history

854
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: for me as one of the worst movies I have

855
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 1: ever seen. It. It was so bad that I was

856
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: laughing aloud for the entire second half of the movie

857
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:00,760
Speaker 1: in the fucking theater, like, oh my god, horrble. I'm

858
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: just fascinated by people with the first name Wolfgang. I

859
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: that's cool, how did you get here? Also, every time,

860
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: I confused Wolfgang Peterson and Wolfgang Puck all the time,

861
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh, yeah, Wolfgang Peterson. He has some restaurants.

862
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: He has a line of really heavy duty cook wear. Yes,

863
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: and I have some. I have it. I used to

864
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: have a boss named Wolfgang Hammer, and I was like,

865
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: that's not a real man. How was he standing before

866
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: me when that couldn't be true. But he's real, you know,

867
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 1: the real award and never ending story I think goes

868
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: to the production design and the costumes and the makeup.

869
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: My god, and I think that the beautiful the youth

870
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: performances are really good in this Like I thought, I

871
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: thought a Tray was really amazing, and as as was

872
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: Bastion I really, I mean, and the child like Empress,

873
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: she's pretty good for the four those gigantic, like those

874
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,279
Speaker 1: plate sized eyes. I was like she I looked her

875
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: up as well. She's like a professor, and then she

876
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: later became like a lyrical dancer. Everyone in this movie

877
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: seems to have gone on to like live their truth.

878
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: I appreciate it amazing interesting as far as what we

879
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: tend to focus on discussion wise, um, I couldn't help

880
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: but notice that almost all of the characters are male

881
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: or male coded. There's not that much in the way

882
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: of women or girls, and if they are present in

883
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: the story, they're like the Empress, who is not on

884
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: screen until the very end of the movie. There's she's dying,

885
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: and she's dying and she yeah, she like kind of

886
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: needs to be rescued, like that's something. Yeah, for sure,

887
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: that's yeah. That's the kind of like the thrust of

888
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 1: the narrow. If I keep saying thrust in recent episodes

889
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: and I've yeah, I can't explain it. Which of us

890
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: started it, but one of us needs to stop. Well,

891
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be me thrusting. I said that out

892
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: loud yesterday and our Shrek three episode. I was like,

893
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: why are we saying thrust right now? This is not okay. Look,

894
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: what's not okay is that the term has been, you know,

895
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: really manipulated to mean something. You know it's inappropriate. I

896
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: saw it all. I don't know what I was watching,

897
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: but I saw like an old timey clip of something

898
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: of like a grown man talking to a child where

899
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: he's like where he said, I'm so thrilled I might bust.

900
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 1: You used to just be able to like say kind

901
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: of whatever. I don't think bust meant this, No, probably not.

902
00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: I hope. I hope that it was like an adult

903
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: man talking to sure Tumble or something. I don't know

904
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: what the funk I was watching, but he's like, I

905
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: might bust and you're like, oh my god, she's seven.

906
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 1: Don't say bust gross anyway, so sorry for my vocabulary,

907
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: but the Yeah, the premise of the movie is that

908
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: a tray You needs to save you know, this young

909
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: girl who, for our purpose is literally a female character

910
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: that needs a man to give her a name. Yes, yes,

911
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: which I think does remove a lot of important context,

912
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: but on its face that is true. Yes, so there's her.

913
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: Then you've got the um what is her name? Argyle?

914
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: Who is his wife? Character of this science guy who

915
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: is given much more I wouldn't even say he's given

916
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 1: more narrative significance because like, all he really does is

917
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: show a tray you where the gates are to get

918
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 1: to the Southern Oracle. But he's given way more screen

919
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: time because there's just a few moments where this may

920
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 1: a couple are on screen together. They're horrible to each other.

921
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: They clearly hate each other. He is throwing very gendered

922
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: insults her way. He calls her a wench several times,

923
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: like we mentioned, and then she's not allowed to be

924
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: in the movie after that because the movie kind of

925
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: values his knowledge and skills more than hers. Yeah, he

926
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: just seems like more eager to be on screen than

927
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 1: she does when she is like slamming her out of

928
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 1: the way to be like my science, which I was

929
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: like kind of I was honestly kind of like a

930
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,439
Speaker 1: little surprised that that happened because the way they're introduced,

931
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: he looks like the buffoon and she looks like like,

932
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 1: oh well, I actually keep ship running here. I'm just

933
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: not respected due to society also in Fantasia apparently still

934
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: a very patriarchal society there. But then it like kind

935
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: of changes, and then by the end she's the one

936
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: that is like, yeah, very odd a frame. And then

937
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: angle Wook is like stating themes of the movie in

938
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: a very profound way, and I'm like, I wish that

939
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: Urgell was saying this and not him, because it's like

940
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: she was positioned as the person who was like smarter.

941
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: And but then I was also was I not moved

942
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: when I heard you know, angle Wook described the like

943
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: mirror of like who you truly are, Like kind people

944
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 1: find they are cruel, like courageous people find their cowards. Um,

945
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: I just felt like he didn't earn it in the

946
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: way that she did. I wish she had had those lines.

947
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: I agree so like a white man's fantasy. To me,

948
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: like so much of what we know about fantasy, especially

949
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: in film and in cinema, is it is from a

950
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 1: white male, patriarchal point of view, so you really rarely

951
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: get you know. I feel like we see it as

952
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: recent as like Game of Thrones and Ship and it's like, oh,

953
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: you still cast the own people as wild and like

954
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 1: stupid and savage and enough like the black people as slaves,

955
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: like come on, yeah, it's pervasive. Yeah, And and also

956
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: like like you're saying Janet has not gone away in

957
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: a way that is like fucking infuriating that that goddamn

958
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:25,439
Speaker 1: series sounds like. I will say that the movie had

959
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: more diversity than I would have expected, especially from a

960
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 1: movie from the eighties, at least for the first minutes

961
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: of the movie, because you've got Deep Roy playing the

962
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: guy with the snail, whose name, according to I am

963
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: dB is teeny weeny. Okay, that seems respectful. They never

964
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 1: refer to each other by their names on the movie.

965
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: I didn't think, so, okay. Deep Roy is extremely iconic, though,

966
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: I mean, like genderry, I love a character actor. I

967
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: salute him forever and ever. Though his voice is dubbed

968
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: over by another actor doing I think I couldn't remember

969
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 1: if it was an American accent or British accent, so

970
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 1: Deep Roy's voice was not used in the movie and

971
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: his voice got dubbed over. I wonder why. Yeah, I'm

972
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: not sure. And then you have the character of I

973
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: also don't know if this was this character's name was

974
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: spoken aloud. But Chiron Karen, I'm not sure, played by

975
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: Moses Gunn. He's the character who's like, we summoned to

976
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: tray you to the Ivory Tower, like the spokesperson for

977
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: the Empress. Yeah, exactly right, And I believe he does

978
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: not come back right like he No, I don't think so,

979
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: I don't know why, Like I don't usually do this

980
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: for beastl Class episodes, but like I went really deep

981
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: and because I just hadn't seen most of these actors before,

982
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: like I recognize deep Roy, but that might have been it.

983
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's giving like Canadian TV movie, yeah, like,

984
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: And so I ended up kind of like doing some

985
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: some reading on on everyone and the actor who plays Kai.

986
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: I think it's like Chiron Karen whatever it is, he's

987
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: really fucking fascinating, like he was, like I think kind

988
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: of like a forgotten character actor who once I looked

989
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: at his filmography, I was like, oh yeah, Like for

990
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: some reason, I watched Little House on the Prairie when

991
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: I was home alone when I was a kid, and

992
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 1: he does have kind of a very memorable arc on

993
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 1: Little House on the Prairie. He plays like a boxer,

994
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: but now he's a farmer and he's hanging out with

995
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: the kids. And like his name is Moses Gunn. He

996
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:48,120
Speaker 1: won like an Obie Award. He was like a very

997
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: famous theater actor and then he pops up in this

998
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: movie for not enough time. But like he just was

999
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: kind of a an overlooked character actor as many character

1000
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 1: actors are, so shout Moses gun I think I remember

1001
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:07,800
Speaker 1: him from either Little House as well, or I don't

1002
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 1: know the Cosby Show. I think he was also on

1003
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 1: The Cosby Show, Yeah, which I mean I was like

1004
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: I was a naked night kid. I watched I did

1005
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 1: what I mean. It's like we don't talk about it now,

1006
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: but I did watch The Cosby Show when I was

1007
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: a kid. Yeah, he was in he was kind of

1008
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: like a he was in everything. Um, he was in

1009
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: you know Hawaii five, oh, the original one. He was

1010
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: in Roots, he was in Little House, he was in Amityville,

1011
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 1: Horror to the Possession. You know, he was in everything.

1012
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: He was in Shaft. Yes, no, what a legend, So

1013
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: like shout out to Moses gun Um. And I think

1014
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: that he was like even more regarded on stage than

1015
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:55,439
Speaker 1: he was in movies and TV. Yeah, I mean it's

1016
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: like and again it's like that's not a lot of

1017
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: diversity at all, and those characters is could be removed

1018
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: from the story, but I am happy that they're there.

1019
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: I don't, like, I was I'm curious what you both

1020
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 1: think because I was kind of like struggling with the

1021
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: many different reads you can have of this story where

1022
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:19,240
Speaker 1: there's no need for it to be so driven by

1023
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:24,120
Speaker 1: young white boys and men, which it absolutely is. And

1024
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 1: and so sometimes I'm like, Okay, Like the whole kind

1025
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: of arc for Bastion is like he needs to become

1026
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: confident enough in himself and like a stand in his

1027
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 1: own sort of identity enough in order to be like

1028
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: I am the protagonist, which is like not really a

1029
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 1: problem that white men have historically had. However, I was

1030
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: like with with the read of like this is a

1031
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 1: grieving child who is not being given the support that

1032
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: he needs from anyone in his support system and anyone

1033
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 1: who's supposed to be looking out for him. There was

1034
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:02,520
Speaker 1: also a read of it where I was like, good

1035
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: for that kid, you know, like he the way that

1036
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 1: the movie is sort of laid out made me think

1037
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: a lot about like, oh, this kid really needed to

1038
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 1: like see himself somewhere as someone who could be empathetic

1039
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 1: and impactful and navigate a difficult situation and survive it,

1040
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: which is like what Bastid needs to do. And he

1041
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 1: doesn't have that support from his dad or from his

1042
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 1: math here. I think that's his entire support system, is Yeah,

1043
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 1: his bully is his dad and his math test. And

1044
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 1: so there's ways I don't know, like I was seeing

1045
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:38,560
Speaker 1: in all these different ways the puzzle. Yeah, I mean,

1046
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 1: I think it would be far more impactful if it

1047
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:48,920
Speaker 1: had been a character who is largely under or unrepresented

1048
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 1: in media and literature reading in this book and seeing

1049
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 1: that or being able to plug themselves into the story

1050
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 1: or seeing themselves in the story then like developing that confidence.

1051
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, like you said, Jamie, that has never been

1052
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:11,440
Speaker 1: a problem for cis hett white boys and men. So

1053
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: it's it's not as impactful as it could have been.

1054
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 1: Certainly and I feel like, ultimately this is a movie

1055
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 1: about how reading is good and cool, and since we

1056
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 1: famously don't read on this podcast, I don't support the

1057
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: message of I have was this like I was like

1058
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 1: a vague I have like very very vague memories of

1059
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 1: like maybe some of the only imagery I saw of

1060
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 1: The Never Ending Story as a kid, because I didn't

1061
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: see the movie was like posters at the library about

1062
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: how reading is awesome. Would that have happened? Yes, I

1063
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 1: think that there was, like in the early eighties, I

1064
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: remember being again, I'm so interested and fascinated by what

1065
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:02,560
Speaker 1: was happening in the eighties with sort of this. Uh

1066
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: I think the Reagan's had a lot to do with it,

1067
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: because you know, Barbara was or not Barbara Nancy Reagan

1068
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 1: was such a pro like family person, so she was

1069
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:19,960
Speaker 1: really into like literacy and parenting kind of stuff, and

1070
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of like propaganda about how to

1071
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: raise your kids correctly and um writ in like in

1072
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:33,640
Speaker 1: like a very like rigid family dynamic and very republican,

1073
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: uh way. And I think that we see a lot

1074
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: of media from this time that is about the loss

1075
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: of imagination and like the like Princess Bride, For better

1076
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:49,200
Speaker 1: or worse, It is also the a similar sort of

1077
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 1: set up and concept where it's a boy being told

1078
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: a story by his grandpa and it's about this adventure

1079
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 1: and and and he's he's in the beginning of Princess Bride.

1080
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 1: He's playing a Nintendo. He's playing at any us and

1081
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,799
Speaker 1: like is and his grandpa comes and he's like, gosh,

1082
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: you know, you don't you don't know what real stories

1083
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: are about, you know, just like never ending stories. Santa

1084
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 1: is like, my books beat me up, and you're like,

1085
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: and that makes them awesome. You know. It's like, sir,

1086
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:19,759
Speaker 1: have you ever played Zelda Breath of the Wild, Because

1087
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: that's truly some of the best storytelling is happening via

1088
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: video games now. Jokes on you fuckers. But I also

1089
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:33,919
Speaker 1: do think that like I attached myself to that messaging

1090
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: because I was raised with it. Like there's a part

1091
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: of my brain that is like actually like ignited by

1092
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: that kind of messaging. It's like I was indoctrinated with

1093
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: that messaging that like video games are bad, they teach

1094
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: you how to kill, they rip away your imagination. Books

1095
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: are where the real answers are and and I believe

1096
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: that it's so fucked up, but I like I bought

1097
01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: into it, and sure, yeah, of course I still playing

1098
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 1: video games. But like I but it's like it's boom.

1099
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: It's almost as if there's some great storytelling in video games,

1100
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 1: in movies and television and books, I guess, but I'm kidding.

1101
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 1: Books are cool, Um, I know how to read, okay,

1102
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:23,080
Speaker 1: but there's also like bad storytelling across all of these mediums.

1103
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 1: So it's just like it depends on the quality of

1104
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, book bookheads really kind of obscure how

1105
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: many terrible books there are out there, much like there's

1106
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 1: a million terrible movies and video games, Like there's if

1107
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 1: there's an art form, there's a lot of bad versions

1108
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:41,320
Speaker 1: of that art form. If you've been to a stand

1109
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:45,800
Speaker 1: up show, you understand that. Um, but yeah, I mean

1110
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 1: I was so while I do think it is like

1111
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,800
Speaker 1: very you know, it's hard to even say of the

1112
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 1: era because it's still very much happens all the time

1113
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: where it's like there is a you know, little white

1114
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 1: boy who has put into like the role of pretend

1115
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,679
Speaker 1: agonist who needs to believe he's the protagonist when there's

1116
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 1: so many people and groups who are never told their

1117
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: the protagonists, and it's like reinforced over and over and

1118
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 1: over and so on that end, you're like, well, there's

1119
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: actually not very much being challenged. But I also do

1120
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 1: like have a lot of love for and like really

1121
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: felt I don't know, just like watching a kid find

1122
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:29,639
Speaker 1: a character that they're like, I, you know, if this

1123
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: character can do it, then so can I. Because I

1124
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 1: remember feeling that way a ton when I was a kid,

1125
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: and like I was like going back to my Lemony

1126
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: Snicket books where I always all roads lead back to

1127
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 1: my Lemony Snicket books, where it's like, oh yeah, like

1128
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 1: just a specific character or book or memory that you

1129
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 1: know exactly where you were at and your kids squishy

1130
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 1: brain life when you were going through it and it

1131
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 1: was like a moment or whatever it was that helped

1132
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 1: you push through it. And it's like those are some

1133
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:02,799
Speaker 1: of the most know, like intimate and like formative memories

1134
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 1: you can have. And it's cool that there's a movie

1135
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:10,679
Speaker 1: that like tracks that exactly of like and tells Bastian

1136
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: at the end like you are important to your favorite

1137
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 1: character too, Like that's who makes me emotional. It's very nice.

1138
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:22,720
Speaker 1: I really love it On top of that, this is

1139
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 1: a story where I mean it's kind of hard to

1140
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: say who's the protagonist if well, it's like obviously like

1141
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:36,479
Speaker 1: it's bastions story, Matt Max Fury Road story, it's Bastian's story.

1142
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 1: And then he's sort of like living vicariously through the

1143
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 1: other protagonists, which is a tray you. Both characters are

1144
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 1: little boys who are openly expressing emotion, openly crying. They

1145
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 1: are struggling, they're being vulnerable, they're struggling. They don't feel

1146
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 1: emasculated by their struggle. They're failed by people around them

1147
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 1: who have the intentions constantly, which is always something that

1148
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:06,439
Speaker 1: I feel like is underrepresented in kids media. Is like

1149
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: it's always like villain, the guy who's failing you intentionally

1150
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 1: and maliciously, when I feel like it's far more common

1151
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 1: for kids to be what happens with Bastion's dad, with

1152
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:21,679
Speaker 1: like someone that I'm sure that if his dad could

1153
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:23,720
Speaker 1: show up for him the way that he needed to,

1154
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: he would want to, but he can't, and so like

1155
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: Bastions totally isolate it. Yeah, and so and with Bastions specifically, again,

1156
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:36,799
Speaker 1: he's this little boy who is a gentle book loving

1157
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:42,680
Speaker 1: boy who gets very emotional with the art that he consumes.

1158
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: And then it's the relationship that he had with his

1159
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 1: mother and the grief that he's feeling, uh towards his

1160
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 1: mother's death that like kind of saves the day where

1161
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:56,680
Speaker 1: he's like, oh my gosh, Like my mom's name was

1162
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,920
Speaker 1: moon Moonchild and that's your name. So like the kind

1163
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 1: Moonchild and that man end up getting married, Like that's

1164
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 1: what That's what I'm saying, Like when when Moonchild died,

1165
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 1: that house went to ship. Yeah, why did Moonchild marry

1166
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 1: this guy who guzzles raw eggs every morning? Like he's like, God,

1167
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 1: I think Moonchild used to make this for me when

1168
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 1: she was alive. But but how did she cook them?

1169
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. She probably scrambled them and didn't drink

1170
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 1: them raw. Just a thought, but anyway, um, but um yeah.

1171
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:34,559
Speaker 1: So it's like his connection. And you know, we were

1172
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,680
Speaker 1: just talking Jamie about like we're always talking about so

1173
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: many movies being about a relationship between father and son,

1174
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:45,080
Speaker 1: and while this is that to some degree, it's about

1175
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:49,599
Speaker 1: how Bastion's dad is failing him and he cannot look

1176
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: to his dad for any type of support, where a

1177
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 1: lot of movies about fathers and sons. The father is

1178
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: failing the son, but the movie is saying like this

1179
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:02,439
Speaker 1: dad is teaching his boy how to be a man

1180
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:06,480
Speaker 1: and how to repress his feelings, and isn't that awesome

1181
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 1: like celebrating the resilience of a child, because the child

1182
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:14,640
Speaker 1: has to be resilient, right, And this movie doesn't go

1183
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: in that direction. Um, it shows like this father is

1184
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 1: like failing his son in his like moment of most

1185
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 1: dire need and and he has to turn to books

1186
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,680
Speaker 1: for comfort. So yeah, I just I liked that. I

1187
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:32,760
Speaker 1: think it's it's so rare to see a story where

1188
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: the protagonist is a boy or a man and have

1189
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 1: that character be vulnerable and crying on screen and like

1190
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 1: things that you that are perceived by society to be

1191
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 1: like emasculating and yeah, and have those qualities be like celebrated.

1192
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 1: And I love that, like exactly. I mean, I love

1193
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 1: that he gets to stab Mark a tray does, but

1194
01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 1: that this sort of like I felt like the underlying

1195
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:02,799
Speaker 1: message there. And I guess like I am like currently

1196
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 1: kind of in like grief mood, so I was like

1197
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:09,679
Speaker 1: really leaning heavy into the grief reading of this movie.

1198
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 1: But I really I really appreciated how it seemed like

1199
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 1: Bastian was being encouraged by the book and a Trey

1200
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: was as well to just like look it in the

1201
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 1: face and confront it and as painful as it clearly is.

1202
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:25,840
Speaker 1: It's like, that's why I don't know. I was back

1203
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: and forth because it's like I rarely want a male protagonist,

1204
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,360
Speaker 1: but I thought it was. It was rare to see

1205
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 1: like a young boy encouraged to confront an extreme emotion

1206
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 1: as a positive and that's just like not common. I

1207
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 1: liked it. I think for me, as much as I

1208
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:50,800
Speaker 1: want women and girls at the center of stories that

1209
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 1: I consume, I also want boys who are challenging masculinity.

1210
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:03,160
Speaker 1: I also I the desire like knows no gender. It's

1211
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: sort of like the same for me, Like that journey

1212
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: feels the same because perhaps it is the same that

1213
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 1: like a woman is central is the anti masculine you know, Yeah,

1214
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:18,799
Speaker 1: I see what you mean, rust if you will, okay,

1215
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: got another person on board, Yeah, I I totally agree. Like,

1216
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:32,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, And I feel like the central as

1217
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 1: much as it's like the childlike Empress, which what a

1218
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 1: character name, um, but the child like Empress she is

1219
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 1: so not a part of the story until the very end,

1220
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 1: but then she ends up being this embodiment of his

1221
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:50,160
Speaker 1: mom's memory, and that was something. Again I think it

1222
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:53,120
Speaker 1: was just because we covered a million holiday movies where

1223
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 1: dead mom is so part and parcel to every holiday

1224
01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:00,040
Speaker 1: movie that's ever come out. Oh my god, that we

1225
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 1: thought about that, But like Disney Renaissance and every holiday

1226
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 1: movie ever, Mommy's they're gone, they're gone, and it's vague

1227
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 1: because Santa isn't a mommy. Santa is a daddy figure,

1228
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 1: so we can't be having So I think I was

1229
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:21,360
Speaker 1: like that trope has been on my mind recently anyways,

1230
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:23,759
Speaker 1: and so at first I was like, oh, dead mom troupe,

1231
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 1: Like what are what are we going to do with this?

1232
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 1: But I think again, I'm just like it ended up

1233
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 1: kind of working for me because so often, even though Moonchild,

1234
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: the dead mom is extremely vague and we don't know

1235
01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:40,840
Speaker 1: a lot about her, I thought it was like, really,

1236
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I just it really like hit

1237
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: with me. I feel like so often when you see

1238
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: a parent has passed on, and like specifically a mother,

1239
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:53,680
Speaker 1: it's always very like gentle and I'm thinking of I

1240
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: think Casper where like the mom comes back as an

1241
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:02,799
Speaker 1: angel and she tells sexy Bill Palman and little Christina

1242
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 1: Ricci like I just want you to be happy and

1243
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 1: I want you to like move on, and it's still

1244
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: a very like maternal like don't worry about it. Yeah,

1245
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 1: I died at like thirty four. It's it's all good

1246
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,760
Speaker 1: like and it's very like unselfish in the way I

1247
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 1: think that mothers are often kind of type cast as

1248
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 1: like the unselfish mother, but with the childlike empress who

1249
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:32,080
Speaker 1: are like I think like symbolizes his mom. She is

1250
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 1: like begging him to remember her, and I was like

1251
01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 1: that was I don't know as far as dead moms go.

1252
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,720
Speaker 1: That felt very very active of like no, don't just

1253
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 1: fucking never speak my name again, because all your dad

1254
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 1: can do is not have a feeling and drink eggs

1255
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 1: like if you don't like it feels like coca where

1256
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 1: you're like, if you don't talk about me, if you

1257
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: don't remember me, I disappear, So fucking say my name

1258
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 1: and talk about me and like rebuild this. I don't know.

1259
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: I was really into that scene. Yeah, and then they

1260
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:09,559
Speaker 1: get to be together and it's like he's with his mom,

1261
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,679
Speaker 1: and she just is able to tell him like it's

1262
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 1: not too late, just like you know, lovingly, get your

1263
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,720
Speaker 1: ship together, kid, like deal with your feelings and you

1264
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: can rebuild everything. But then when he does in the

1265
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 1: book and it turns him into a fascist, so it's

1266
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 1: it's complicated a thin fashion. Yes, an athletic fascist. Scary.

1267
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Well, I just like just let that

1268
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 1: movie be the movie author, like, you did something weird,

1269
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 1: you did something weird that God does anyone have anything

1270
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 1: else to say about the flim I feel like I

1271
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: could go on and on about this movie, but I

1272
01:21:55,240 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 1: want to spare my stupid thoughts and let people enjoy it.

1273
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 1: Because also, like there is something about like breaking this

1274
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 1: movie down and how hard it is that I'm like, yeah,

1275
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 1: the the intentions were so simple. We're pulling, we're trying

1276
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 1: to pull things from it that are like very much

1277
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:16,480
Speaker 1: clearly in the book, like something was lost in translation

1278
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:22,040
Speaker 1: between the book and the movie. They aren't matching up here. Um.

1279
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:25,879
Speaker 1: But it was also so moving as a kid, truly

1280
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:28,040
Speaker 1: swept me away every time I watched it, and even

1281
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: when I watched it yesterday. High as a kite just

1282
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 1: only way shoveling popcorn into my mouth was transported by

1283
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:43,640
Speaker 1: this stupid costumes, makeup and practical effects. It's some of

1284
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: which when you're talking about foul core scary to me.

1285
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 1: Falcor was it was it the Falcourt did Felcore blink?

1286
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 1: I was trying to fair. I was like, what about

1287
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 1: foul core? Maybe it was the mouth. I was focused

1288
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:55,599
Speaker 1: on the eyes because they seemed really wet and they

1289
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:58,479
Speaker 1: weren't blinking, and I was like, buddy, but it was like,

1290
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:00,880
Speaker 1: it's not real. I feel if they were blinking, but

1291
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 1: maybe not necessarily in unison. Maybe it was Maybe that

1292
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: was another thing. Maybe what it was it was like

1293
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: blinking like a chucky cheese animatronic woud where it's like

1294
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 1: blinking really loudly, where it's like like you know yeah,

1295
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 1: or there's like eyelashes that are like sort of like yes, yes,

1296
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:21,559
Speaker 1: you can hear it from ten feet away and you're like,

1297
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be able to hear someone blink like that.

1298
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:28,719
Speaker 1: I also do want to encourage you both to look

1299
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 1: up foul core behind the scenes falcore on YouTube because

1300
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 1: I believe that there is footage of Bastion writing or

1301
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 1: a tray you writing Falcore against a green screen or

1302
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:45,200
Speaker 1: like a movie. It's kind of cool. Whoa, Oh that's amazing.

1303
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:47,040
Speaker 1: I would love to know how more because there it's

1304
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 1: like there is some very like you know, dated green

1305
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: green effects, but for some reason, like not to the

1306
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: point where I was like taken out of it to

1307
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:58,120
Speaker 1: an absurd degree. I was just like, yeah, that's I guess.

1308
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:01,679
Speaker 1: It's like, who, who care? I don't know. It's still

1309
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 1: the story was good enough that you're just like whatever.

1310
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:07,160
Speaker 1: And I did kind of laugh when Basting at the end,

1311
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 1: He's like he just had this profound like breakthrough in

1312
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 1: his life. And then they're like, what do you want

1313
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,760
Speaker 1: to do next? He's like, ride a dragon and kill

1314
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:23,599
Speaker 1: some kids, and you're like, yeah, I love that for him.

1315
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:30,759
Speaker 1: The Disney Channel had to show up somewhere exactly, Um, well,

1316
01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 1: does the movie pass the Bechtel test? Oh? No, I

1317
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:39,600
Speaker 1: really don't think it does. It doesn't. It doesn't, it doesn't,

1318
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:44,759
Speaker 1: But you know, we're in a pickle. If only Falcre

1319
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 1: was a girl dog, That's what I'm saying, like a girl.

1320
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:53,120
Speaker 1: There was no reason that almost every character that a

1321
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 1: tray you encountered needed to be male or male coded.

1322
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: So The only one aside from like the Empress is

1323
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:08,720
Speaker 1: more La the Turtle, who, again I was not sure

1324
01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 1: the gender of the person who voiced more La, and

1325
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 1: I do think was coded as a woman all the

1326
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:21,400
Speaker 1: all the summaries I found you she she I don't know,

1327
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:25,080
Speaker 1: got it? Okay, maybe it was just like a very

1328
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:30,600
Speaker 1: grumbly smoker's voice. That yeah, I was always sort of um.

1329
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:33,840
Speaker 1: I used to put her and Ursula the Sea Witch

1330
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:39,720
Speaker 1: in the same sort of smoking anti character, A celebrated

1331
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:43,960
Speaker 1: a celebrated character. I love the character. I just like, yeah,

1332
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: you're wrong to hate children, but I like how you

1333
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:52,600
Speaker 1: do it, uh on their faith. It's kind of are

1334
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:57,639
Speaker 1: you mommy? Like great? Um? But yeah. And then so

1335
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 1: there's more La, and then there's the Wench basically according

1336
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: to her husband and yeah, I mean again, like I

1337
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 1: I wonder how much more impactful this movie could have

1338
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:14,880
Speaker 1: been if, like the Bastion character and the Atrey You

1339
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:20,679
Speaker 1: character were like a little black or brown girl rather

1340
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 1: than a little white boy, which is what so many

1341
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 1: children family movies historically have been. So anyway, um No

1342
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:35,400
Speaker 1: does not pass the Bechtel test, but our Nipple scale,

1343
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 1: in which we rate the movie on a scale of

1344
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 1: zero to five nipples based on examining it through an

1345
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens um. It's hard because I've only said

1346
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 1: nice things. But for I guess this is gonna be

1347
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use the backtel cast cheat code, which is

1348
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 1: to split down the middle give it to it a

1349
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 1: half because while I do appreciate that it's a story

1350
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:11,400
Speaker 1: about a boy who loves reading and he expresses his

1351
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:15,679
Speaker 1: emotions and he like wants to grieve or he's trying

1352
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,599
Speaker 1: to figure out how to grieve, and his like toxic

1353
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:23,160
Speaker 1: egg dad is like no soun focus on math class

1354
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:31,639
Speaker 1: and uh it's and it's it's like about like young

1355
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 1: boyhood vulnerability to some degree, and I appreciate that, But

1356
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:41,320
Speaker 1: there also is no reason that more of the characters

1357
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 1: couldn't be girls, women female coded also no reason more

1358
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 1: characters couldn't be people of color. There also could have

1359
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:54,200
Speaker 1: been more body diversity, especially since in the source material,

1360
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:57,599
Speaker 1: Bastion is fat and you almost never get to see

1361
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 1: a fat kid as the hero of a movie. I

1362
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: think there just could have been more diversity across the board.

1363
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,720
Speaker 1: So I don't know, it's it's it's tricky. This is

1364
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:12,000
Speaker 1: a complicated one, but I'll stick with two and a

1365
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:15,920
Speaker 1: half and I will give one to deep Roy, I'll

1366
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:19,280
Speaker 1: give one to Deep Roy's racing Snail, and I'll give

1367
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 1: my half my half nipple to Moonchild moon Child. I

1368
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:30,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm honestly like, for our medric, I'm tempted

1369
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,919
Speaker 1: to go more like two, which bums me out because

1370
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 1: I do think that there. I mean, if I was

1371
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:39,920
Speaker 1: doing it on a personal enjoyment, how it made me

1372
01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:42,120
Speaker 1: feel and how much I want to watch it again,

1373
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:45,840
Speaker 1: it would be like four to five, like it really

1374
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 1: really hit for me. But I mean in terms of

1375
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:52,240
Speaker 1: like intersectionality, there's not a lot of it. I think

1376
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 1: that like the strongest thing that this movie has going

1377
01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 1: for it was what you were describing so well a

1378
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:02,200
Speaker 1: couple of minutes ago, Jana, which is like encouraging young

1379
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:08,439
Speaker 1: boys to confront not just like traditional expectations of masculinity,

1380
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:11,400
Speaker 1: but like confront their own emotions and have that be

1381
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:15,479
Speaker 1: a positive way to move through your life and have

1382
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:18,679
Speaker 1: that become a heroic quality. Because I think that that

1383
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:23,559
Speaker 1: is like a really really powerful thing that and and

1384
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: also it's like basition. I don't think we've talked, but

1385
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:28,880
Speaker 1: I think that Bastian, like more so than a lot

1386
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 1: of like little white boy protagonists that I've encountered throughout

1387
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: my life, feels very like plug in able of like

1388
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:40,599
Speaker 1: he's I don't know, like it's just like I found

1389
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 1: it easy to like put myself in him because you

1390
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:46,120
Speaker 1: don't know that much about him until the very very end.

1391
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:48,479
Speaker 1: So he is kind of like like I can't think

1392
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 1: of a better term than Avatar, which is poor cultural timing, um,

1393
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 1: but like he is a good character to kind of

1394
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 1: plug yourself into. UM. But I mean in terms of

1395
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 1: like how much of this movie is pushing back, I

1396
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:05,760
Speaker 1: think it pushes back on masculinity, but kind of not

1397
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 1: very much else. And like Grusenkuli and there there were

1398
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:12,519
Speaker 1: there was no reason this movie had to be as

1399
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:17,439
Speaker 1: white as it was and as male dominated as it was.

1400
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 1: I do kind of in general think that Bastian as

1401
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:24,240
Speaker 1: a boy character really did work for me. But outside

1402
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 1: of that character, like it would have been really cool

1403
01:30:26,520 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 1: to see Bastian see himself in a character of another

1404
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:31,679
Speaker 1: gender or like there there were all these different ways

1405
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,720
Speaker 1: it could have gone. Um. And I really loved the

1406
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:36,479
Speaker 1: movie and I can't wait to watch it again and

1407
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:40,000
Speaker 1: I want to share it with people, so multitudes. For

1408
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:42,719
Speaker 1: this one, I'm going to go to I'm gonna give

1409
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: one to Urgell, who was a woman in stuff and

1410
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 1: you can't tell me different. And then I'm giving one

1411
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:52,760
Speaker 1: to the to the titty statue that could kill you

1412
01:30:52,840 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 1: if you if you didn't believe in yourself about how

1413
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:00,679
Speaker 1: I like to feel like I am in really ation chips.

1414
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 1: I do now recall that the lasers come out of

1415
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:05,960
Speaker 1: the eyes, but boy, do they seem like they come

1416
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:10,320
Speaker 1: out of the tits though, right, because that would have

1417
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 1: been too far, that would have been too far. That

1418
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:18,479
Speaker 1: totally Oh god, Um, I give it one point five,

1419
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:20,519
Speaker 1: I think, and I for all the reasons that you've

1420
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:23,439
Speaker 1: already said, I don't even need to expand upon it. Um,

1421
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:26,280
Speaker 1: I'm taking a half a point for a tray you. Unfortunately,

1422
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:28,920
Speaker 1: I have to do that. Now. Do I love this movie? Yes,

1423
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:32,720
Speaker 1: but on that scale, um, you know, and a lot

1424
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:37,440
Speaker 1: of the eighties movies that I grew up with, boyl

1425
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:41,439
Speaker 1: Up really really celebrating young boys, young white boys in

1426
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: a way that is unnecessary. Um, But that was the

1427
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 1: I guess important thing to discuss at the time for

1428
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:56,559
Speaker 1: some fucking reason. Yeah, but also helped to develop what

1429
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,439
Speaker 1: I believe to be the act of imagination that I

1430
01:31:59,479 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 1: have now. Was highly encouraged by the never Ending story

1431
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:07,479
Speaker 1: and movies of its in its genre and of the

1432
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 1: time and of its caliber. Like I really felt like

1433
01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:13,240
Speaker 1: I was raised by these movies and they were so

1434
01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:19,919
Speaker 1: strange and bizarre and wild, but I love them. Yep.

1435
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:23,559
Speaker 1: I want this podcast, Janna. Yes, I know I'm gonna

1436
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 1: make it. Want it, I know I'll do it. I'll

1437
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 1: do it, And please come back anytime to our show.

1438
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 1: Would love and thank you so much for being here.

1439
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:37,920
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Check out your stuff, follow

1440
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,679
Speaker 1: you online, et cetera. Well, I have, for the most

1441
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 1: part laid off Twitter because it's just under hard to

1442
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:51,000
Speaker 1: be there now. But I'm on Instagram still and you

1443
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:52,840
Speaker 1: can see me on Rutherford Falls. You can see me

1444
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 1: on the TV show Reservation Dogs, which is on FX

1445
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:58,640
Speaker 1: on Hulu. And also you can um listen to my

1446
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,599
Speaker 1: podcast that I'm going to be making about the maccabre

1447
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 1: media content of the eighties for children. Can't Wait. Um.

1448
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:12,479
Speaker 1: You can follow us on social media at Bechtel Cast.

1449
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:17,360
Speaker 1: You can subscribe to our Patreon a k A Matreon

1450
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: where you will get to bonus episodes every month, plus

1451
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:26,400
Speaker 1: access to the back catalog of well over one hundred

1452
01:33:26,439 --> 01:33:31,559
Speaker 1: bonus episodes, all at patreon dot com slash Spectel Cast

1453
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 1: for five dollars a month, and if you can believe it,

1454
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:41,880
Speaker 1: we are covering nine thousand different adaptations of Pinocchio due

1455
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:50,479
Speaker 1: to um demand, yes, high demand from the true at once.

1456
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:54,000
Speaker 1: And you can also grab our merch if you should

1457
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:56,360
Speaker 1: so choose over at t public dot com slash the

1458
01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:01,599
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. We've got some new designs that that Jamie designed,

1459
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:05,200
Speaker 1: such as Shrek I in as it, such as feminist

1460
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:10,760
Speaker 1: icon Paddington, such as Bye Danny Elfman, one of the

1461
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:14,679
Speaker 1: greatest compositions of our time. Absolutely and with that, should

1462
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:19,920
Speaker 1: we jump on our our horny puppet dragon and get

1463
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:24,000
Speaker 1: out of here. Let's go Bye Bye,