WEBVTT - Buddhist Chaplain on Death Row 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.840 Dear Governor is a production of I Heart Media and 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:06.720 three Months Media. If you are moved by Jarvis Masters 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:09.320 and his thirty years struggle on San Quentin's death throw, 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.760 and you'd like to support his cause, please consider signing 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.840 a petition on his behalf. Visit free Jarvis dot org 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.160 slash podcast to sign your name to an open letter 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:26.120 to California Governor Gavin Newsom, Dear Governor Newsom, Dear Mr 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:31.640 Governor Newsom. This is an open letter to Governor Gavin Newsom, 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:44.280 Dear Governor Newsom. There's an adage made popular in n 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:48.120 fifty four by President Dwight D. Eisenhower that there are 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.960 no atheists in a foxhole. The idea behind this phrase 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:54.480 is that anyone who finds themselves in the position of 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.840 extreme stress where death is all but imminent, he or 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.080 she will seek comfort in a higher power or after 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.200 being sentenced to death. We've all heard stories about men 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:08.040 and women turning to God, finding redemption, or being born again, 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.720 but there is surprisingly little research to prove this phenomenon 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:16.120 as anything but anecdotal. Official statistics on religious affiliations in 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.479 prison are not publicly available, and there are also those 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.039 who lose any sense of faith that they once had 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.240 after being sentenced to death row. Considering such bleak and 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:29.760 inhumane conditions, Jervis j Masters falls into the former camp 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.640 he found his religion as the walls of the capital 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.600 injustice system began to close in on him in nineteen 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.000 eighty six, tighter and tighter until they can find him 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.959 for a lifetime in a nine by four cement and 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.959 steel wire cage. On last week's episode, we met Melody 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:50.160 irma child Chavez, the investigator on Jervis's defense team who 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.639 first introduced Jarvis to Buddhism. This week, we meet another 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:58.080 woman who was instrumental in nurturing and reinforcing Jervis's burgeoning 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:04.440 Buddhist mind. My name is Susan Shannon. I am a 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:11.519 Buddhist and interfaith chaplain. I provide spiritual support for incarcerated 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:16.080 people and people who have recently gotten out of prison, 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:21.480 as well as spiritual direction for the general population. I 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:27.520 am also a CPE instructor, and CPE is a program 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.560 that chaplains need to go through in order to get certified, 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:36.160 so I am actively involved in training other chaplains. When 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:40.560 did you begin your chaplain see at Quentin two thousand 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.760 and eleven. And how long did you work with the 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.160 general population before you started working with those on death row. Oh, 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.359 I started in on death row almost right away. Jarvis 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:56.520 and I started one on one probably close to the 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:01.600 beginning of two thousand twelve, and we had one on 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.880 one visits every week for I believe it was a 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:10.359 couple of years before others began to want to get 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.320 in on the fund that we were having. I understand 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.440 when you first started your one on ones you were 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:23.919 just sitting outside Jarvis's cell door, not sitting standing standing, Okay, 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:26.040 And what was that like? Because I know when I 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.360 talked with him on the phone it is so loud, 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.440 so many voices. Did did they quiet down so that 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.000 they could eavesdrop on you? So it was kind of 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:40.000 one on It was one on one, but with like 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:45.000 ten years listening in. Yeah, well, yes, there was definitely that. 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.080 And there was also, luckily for Jarvis and myself, father 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:51.800 George Williams, who was the Catholic chaplain there, who put 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.840 us together. I saw that Jarvis and I had a 0:03:55.920 --> 0:04:00.000 lot in common with our spiritual practice, and Father Williams 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.800 was able to secure for us a small room and 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.680 so It was only really one or two times that 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:09.960 I had to stand on his front porch, as he 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.640 would say, and the rest of the times we were 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.400 able to sit in a small room, which was great. However, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.520 every night that I went into death Row, I walked 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.880 to buy Jarvis to cell, and so pretty much every week, 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.320 whether it was his group that was called for our 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.680 Buddhist services or not, I would stand and visit with Jarvis. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.320 I think I was cleaning the floor and the Catholic 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:39.239 priests George Williams are calling brother George because I didn't 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.880 like the term father, so I call him brother George. 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:45.800 I said, how are you doing? He said, I brought 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:50.880 somebody to see you. I said who? And she stepped 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.440 out from around and she says, I think we have 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:59.920 the same teacher, and we do the same and if 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.680 I can do anything to help you, and if you 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.880 know other people who might need some help, I'm here 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.159 is father George. Brother George is going to allow me 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:15.760 to come in here on the tier is sponsor me. 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:19.200 You know, he was gonna use his credentials to allow 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.600 me to come in. And maybe you and I can 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.360 do some practices together, and maybe you and I can 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:29.080 figure out how we can extend this to other people 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:34.400 on death Row. Jervis Masters recalls meeting Chaplain Susan Shannon 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.880 from his side of the front porch one of particular kind. 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:41.440 It was really really funny. They had this thing when 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.760 they call self front. I think it's called self front. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.000 Is that when you're allowed to sit in front of 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.839 some on sell. You know, I never knew. I never 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.800 could imagine I had been here along long, long decades 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.839 that they would let her sit on death Row, on 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.880 the tier and there, and we're meditating to get it. 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:07.840 It was without the power of this Catholic praise, he 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:12.480 would never even begin to happen. So that's how much 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:16.320 juice he has. So we're sitting there and you know, 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.520 I said, you know, Susan, I know some of these mantras, 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.080 and you're asking me to say some of these mantras instead. 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:27.640 And you know, there I learned because you just hear 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.080 it all the time and it just becomes a part 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:34.760 of your your song, you know. And we were doing 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:40.599 this and people start laughing all over the Dawn building. 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.559 You know, I'm trying to tell Susan because her eyes 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.960 was cold, I said, Susan, she was doing her thing. 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:54.680 You know, Susan, can you hear all these people laughing? 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.599 And she she leaned in, she says at us, and 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.440 I it, yeah. And I was sweating all over the place. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:08.279 I was just pouring sweat. I had my whole little 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:12.640 naturals wet. Like I got out of the shower because 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.400 I didn't want to tell this deep practitioner to stop 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:22.040 you embarrassing. You know, I just had this go do this, 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:30.000 you know, And I did, I really did, and I 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.600 was so happy that I did. And I felt, if 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.360 I can do that, I can do anything. You know, 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.680 I mean, you can do anything. Did you guys really 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.800 develop a friendship? How do you describe that a teacher 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:47.880 student relationship. I think it's hard to not develop a 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:54.960 friendship with Jarvis because he is so jovial and inquisitive 0:07:55.400 --> 0:08:02.320 and good humored and deep that he finds his way 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.520 into your heart no matter what. And as a chaplain 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.000 and as a female in a man's prison, I always 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.520 felt like I needed to uphold the best possible boundaries 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.640 I could. But Jarvis wears his emotion on his sleeve. 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.680 And as we would sit and talk together, life happens 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.400 and stories happen and we would laugh and we would cry, 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:29.080 and most definitely a very very deep connection. It wasn't 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:33.200 so much created as as much as it was discovered 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:37.640 to have already existed before we even met. What were 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:42.920 year one on one's like did you read from texts? Or? 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:47.360 At first? Jarvis had a lot of questions. Like many 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.320 of the men, he had seen certain things written, but 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:55.280 didn't know how to pronounce mantras, for example, or certain 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.800 sanscrit or Tibetan words. He wanted to know the explanation. 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:01.600 I would always asked him, well, what what are you 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.880 really interested in? And for a while we worked on 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.200 the pronunciation of mantras. For a while, we worked on 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:14.280 or shared together the different schools of Buddhism, some of 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:20.080 the different schools, most of the time with Jarvis. And 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.600 this is what makes him such an exceptional practitioner. Is 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.640 he uh? I was trying to think of how I 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.520 could articulate this to you guys. He he embodies his 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.360 practice on a day to day, minute by minute level. 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.400 So a lot of our conversations were about things that 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:44.280 had happened to him or things people said, conversations. He 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:48.719 had challenges he had with other people things he had observed, 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.160 and what would be the Buddhist approach, and he would 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.760 talk about I would ask him, well, what was your approach, 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.440 and we would talk about his approach. And he always 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:04.520 wanted to ground into some kind of Dharmic foundation, and 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:06.680 most of the time he was already there. He's a 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:14.240 he's a very advanced practitioner, explained Dharma. Well, Dharma is 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.520 the word that is used for the teachings of the Buddha. 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:24.000 Dharma means the path, the way, and so if you 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:28.440 are studying Buddhism, you're studying the dharma, the Buddha dharma. 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.800 And Jarvis and I both adhere to the Tibetan tradition. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:36.040 In fact, as you may have read, we share a teacher, 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:40.319 Chunda Ku, which is what was my key to going 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.439 into death row in the first place, convincing Father George 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.040 that this was a very rare coincidence that Jarvis not 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:52.520 only share the same Tibetan teacher, but this teacher gave 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.640 us both the same practice, the red tarer practice. So 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.120 that was really really profound. And tell me what the 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:06.800 red tiers well, Tara is the feminine manifestation of the deity. 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:11.840 Of compassion in Tibetan Buddhism, so Tara is like the 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:17.920 divine feminine are are married, and Tara's compassion and healing energies, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:23.560 as well as her activity energies, are manifested in different ways. 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:28.240 So in the Tibetan tradition, there are numerous depictions of 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:35.040 different facets of the same deity. So Tara's main facets 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:40.720 remain manifestations are green Tara, which is the manifestation of compassion, 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:46.079 White Tara, which is the manifestation of healing, and Red Tara, 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:51.079 which is the manifestation of enlightened activity. And chug Datuku 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:57.400 gave Jarvis and I both the Red Tara practice to do. Now, 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:02.360 have you known about Jarvis before you started your chaplaincy there? 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.280 Had you read his books? Or how did you find 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.120 that key to get into death row? My last year 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:13.400 of Masters in Divinity program, I took a prison ministry 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:18.520 course and I found that going into San Quentin, which 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:22.200 was part of the course under Father George Williams, was 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.439 my new monastery. I felt very activated and I began 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.160 to read. Father Williams is also a criminologist, and so 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:33.400 his course was rich in the criminology and all kinds 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.080 of readings we did, and I found my appetite to 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:41.000 be immense and insatiable. And eventually I was led to 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:45.040 Jarvis's books, which is where I found that he and 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:49.360 I shared the meeting and relationship with chunkda Tuku as 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.000 well as the red tarp practice. Did that give you 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.600 shivers when you saw that it did? And you know, 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.880 the truth of interconnectedness is crazy. The other thing about 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.680 Jarvis and I that we discovered over the years and 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:10.800 we continue to we probably know ten twelve people in common. 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.960 And and that's insane, right, like a sixty year old 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:21.200 white woman coming into San Quentin State Prison having ten 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.800 or twelve people in common with a death row inmate 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.880 who's been in there for however many years. So the 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:32.200 times we discovered our interconnections with other people were just 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.600 mind blowing and continue to be so. To know that 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:40.360 Jarvis had this connection with Chagdutuku made it very clear 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.679 to me that I was in the right place and 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.920 that our paths were going to cross. And before I 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:52.440 met Jarvis, I would visualize Tara above death Row every 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.960 time I walked in and just imagine her sending love 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.920 and light and healing and divine feminine concern and care 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.520 and protection to all the men they're never really having. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:09.319 In my wildest imagination, how large our connection would end 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.640 up to be. The more that Jarvis studied the Buddha, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.440 the more he realized he wanted to share what he'd 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.600 learned to commune with his neighbors who may equally benefit 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:23.280 from these newfound practices. And while pre COVID religious services 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.360 abounded in the general population, this was not the case 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.800 on death row, particularly for those who did not identify 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.880 as a Christian or a Catholic. Back in the eighties, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.200 there were no Buddhist courses or services at San Quentin, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.520 no formal Buddhist teachers or chaplains assigned a death row 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.160 up next. How Jarvis and Chaplain Shannon, and the threat 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.680 of a lawsuit managed to change the status quo for 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:59.720 those on death row open to the Dharmic path for 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.240 a on time. Before he met you, Jarvis wanted to 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.840 have a Buddhism class on death row, but he was 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.680 not permitted to do that. But you were able to 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.000 do that because of your capacity as a chaplain. How 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.840 did that come to fruition towards the end of Jarviston 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.840 my one on once. We we always talked about the 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.640 heart of Buddhism and that which is beyond time and 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.280 space and beyond form and bars and all of that, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.280 and what that is is the the Bodhi Cheetah, the 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.800 enlightened heart, the awakened heart and mind of of the Llama. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:39.600 And we always knew that chugged A Touklu's heart heart 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.840 mind would not have put us together if it was 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.720 just for him and I that was our Lama was 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.440 beyond that, and and so we knew that at some 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.880 point our group was going to grow. What happened was 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:58.760 that another inmate on death row who identifies as Buddhist, 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.600 filed a petition to begin a lawsuit against the cdc ARE, 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.240 saying that his spiritual needs were not being met as 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.600 a Buddhist. So pretty much the only thing that gets 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:13.360 the c d c ARE to make any kind of 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.520 change is that kind of a threat. So that because 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:19.680 I had already been going in, I had clearance to 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.040 go in. I had all the right paperwork to be 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.360 considered a chaplain by the prison, even though I wasn't 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.680 a staff chaplain, because they don't formally acknowledge Buddhist chaplains. 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:34.520 It just naturally fell to where our group began to grow, 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.720 and it grew rather quickly. How big did it grow? 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.160 In about a year and a half. It went from 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:51.040 Jarvis and I two, myself and six other men. Yeah. 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:56.560 Why is it that they don't officially recognize um a 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:01.880 Buddhist chaplain. It's that they don't visually recognized Buddhism as 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.520 one of the five main faith traditions that the state 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:16.080 prisons acknowledge, and those five are Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.520 and Native American. In spite of numerous lawsuits, they still 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:25.439 don't recognize Buddhist or Inner faith. However, you could tell 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.720 by the rapid growth of our group, and by the 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.959 work I did in the main line, and and just 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:36.080 looking around and what's happening across the world. The tools 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.760 and skills that Buddhism offers are very non sectarian. They're 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:46.080 very useful and adaptable to all other faith traditions. So 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.880 it's it's just a matter of time, I think. Tell 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.439 me about the first group gathering you had at the 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:58.520 Death Row Chapel. Yeah, so it did start slow, and 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.440 the way that the even though it grew fast, it 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.000 started slow. And I'll explain that the men on Death 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:13.800 Row are organized by the cdc R into groups called yards. 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.080 And I forget how many yards. There are, thirteen or 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.680 something yards. There's a lot of yards. And those yards 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:26.960 are organized according to all kinds of things raise former 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:34.760 gang affiliation um, maybe even crimes um, people who are disabled, 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:40.320 et cetera. So the rules are that men of different 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:45.359 yards can't mix. So that meant that though I had 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:49.480 sixty five guys signed up at the most, I could 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:54.040 still only see one yard at a time. The chapel, 0:18:55.359 --> 0:19:02.120 what is about gosh, my bad measurement probably about long, 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:06.120 maybe not even ten ft wide. It's an old shower 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:13.919 area and it's encased in that diamond wire that is 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:19.800 used for the bars, the prison cells, et cetera. Including 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.720 on the top and up above us always was a 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:27.040 guard with a rifle. There's little sally ports that the 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.960 men were. The shackled men were brought in by their 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.240 tier guards, who they called they kind of affectionately called 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:39.480 their ride. So um, if somebody was on the second tier, 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.600 the second tier guard would bring them down, you know, 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.400 shackle them up, bring them down, I'd be sitting in 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:51.919 the There were five wooden benches bolted to the floor 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:57.440 in the chapel and three cages that weren't We were 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:59.719 never supposed to call them cages, but that's what they 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.800 were about, phone booth sized cages in the back. And 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:08.160 those cages were where the men would sit if they 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.680 if I had a mixed yard group, which I had 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:15.439 for an entire for quite a while, so as the 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:19.480 men were brought into the sally port and led to 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:25.240 the cage, I would sit as far away from them 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.560 as I felt the guard needed me to for him 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:32.240 to feel safe, because they're always wanting to protect people. 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:37.680 The guard and the inmate knew exactly how did sort 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:40.600 of dose. He go around to where the inmate would 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:45.560 be backed into, go forward into the cage, turn around, 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.479 and one fell swoop move. He would put his hands 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:52.720 behind him. The guard would shut the cage and locked 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.280 the cage, and the inmate would put his hands out 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:00.280 the little port of that's about the as of a 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.240 shoe box, and the guard would unshackle his hands. The 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.400 inmate would turn around and sit down. The guard would 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.960 lock the little place where the man's hands came out 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.640 and we would begin so and I always have to 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:19.879 wear a bulletproof stab proof vest whenever I went in. 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:25.879 Were you ever frightened? No, there was maybe one time 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:29.280 when I should have been frightened. There was. There were 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.080 some kind of funny times there where when I look back, 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.480 I think most people would have, you know, panicked. There 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.560 was one time when I was with Jarvis in the 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.800 little room and it was the end of a nine 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:47.439 hour day. I always had to go in. Um My 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.640 time's going into death row were part of a bigger schedule, 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.960 so I didn't pick and shoes when I could go in. 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:56.600 So that this was at the end of a nine 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:58.960 hour day. Jarvis and I had spent about an hour 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.679 or so. I was hungry, I was tired, it was 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:08.520 getting late. Um and there was a medical emergency on 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:13.359 the ground tier so the whole prison shut down. I 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:17.479 couldn't leave until this man died and was brought out 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:19.399 in all this, and so I was there for a 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:25.040 long time. Um. And and that was fun in a way, 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.119 because it was always fun to be with Jarvis, but 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:32.600 it was also hard in terms of keeping my My 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.760 blood sugar was really low, you know that kind of thing. Hum. 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:42.399 There was another time, when a guard who was new 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:46.920 brought an inmate in to the chapel. It was going 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:51.640 to be a one on one and unfortunately I knew 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.800 why this inmate was on death row, which never mattered 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:58.000 to me. I mean I was there as a chaplain 0:22:58.040 --> 0:23:01.320 to address matters of this spirit and matters of the heart, 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:06.720 so I had good boundaries around um all the rest 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:10.880 of what comes with death row. But the guard, instead 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:15.679 of putting him into the cage, which this man and 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.520 I had been seeing each other for now, probably about 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.520 eight years, so we knew each other. Well, the guard 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:25.600 just let him go. And so I'm standing there, I'm 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:31.440 sitting there and this you know inmate, who is never 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.719 free like that around a free first and shackled, you know. 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:38.879 He looked at me. I looked at him, and we 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:42.600 both just raised our eyebrows. It was pretty funny. We 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:45.880 both just kind of raised our eyebrows and the and 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:51.080 shrugged our shoulders. And the inmate was he he was perfect. 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:56.560 He kept his hands behind his back and he said, um, officer, 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:03.200 aren't you forgetting something? And the officer can I swear here? 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:08.600 Can I? Absolutely? The officer up on the gun the 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.879 gun rail up above us. He looks down. He goes, dude, 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:16.480 you gotta keep him shackled, and and the officers like ship, 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:20.920 oh shit, oh shit, shit. He just started taking out. 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:25.080 And I'm sitting there, Oh my god, anybody else would 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:28.040 be scared shitless, and hear me and this inmate are 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:32.600 just kind of cracking up, and he sits down, and 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:34.919 you know, the guard is I'm sure worried he's going 0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:37.080 to be losing his job or getting you know, that 0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:41.399 could have been my retirement, right, And we both just 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:43.920 see he looks at me and he goes, that's never happened. 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:48.399 So that was the time when I probably could have 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:50.720 should have been scared, but I wasn't. I was sort 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:55.480 of amused up next, how the Buddhist curriculum on San 0:24:55.560 --> 0:25:12.520 Quentin's death Row evolved. According to the Pew Research Center, 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:16.040 three and four prison chaplains believed the access to religion 0:25:16.080 --> 0:25:21.480 related programs on the inside is absolutely critical to successful transformation. 0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:24.480 Having piqued the interest of dozens of men on San 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:28.000 Quentin's death Row, I asked how chaplain Susan Shannon helped 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:31.320 develop their Buddhist curriculum to satisfy the array of believers 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:36.240 and practitioners. What I found was that as more guys 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:39.760 began to show up, there began to be some kind 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:43.680 of positioning with the guides, like, well, somebody maybe came 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:46.080 from the Zen tradition or was had read some books 0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:48.720 on Zen, and they thought Zen was all there was. 0:25:48.840 --> 0:25:52.679 Or somebody else came from the Soco Gakai tradition and 0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:54.560 he thought that was all there was. And then there 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:57.040 was the Tibetan tradition, and they thought that was all 0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:00.800 there was. So I said, you I saw right away it. 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:02.879 It was gonna be a bit of a pissing contest, 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:05.240 and I said, you know it, No, we're not gonna 0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:08.800 do that. We're gonna focus on what the different schools 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:12.320 of Buddhism have in common, and the common goal is 0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:16.520 to cultivate a warm heart and interconnectedness, and that's what 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:19.919 we're going to focus on. So I created this big 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:23.320 chart of comparison chart of all the Buddhist schools, and 0:26:23.359 --> 0:26:28.400 I created a twenty two page outline that brought us 0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:33.320 through step by step most if not all, of the 0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:39.120 main topics that all schools of Buddhism cover. And that 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.120 took us about two and a half years. I gave 0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:44.560 all the men the outline and I began to go 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:47.000 through it. Um I began to get really good at 0:26:47.040 --> 0:26:49.600 this because by the time I had eight yards, I 0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:52.160 was teaching the same thing for eight weeks in a row. 0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:56.000 And UM, it took us two and a half years 0:26:56.040 --> 0:26:59.600 to go through this. How do you have eight yards 0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:03.000 in the tiny, tiny room? And I could only see 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:05.440 one yard at a time. Once the yards grew, I 0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:09.640 couldn't see a mixed yard anymore. And with this this 0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:12.679 kind of recognition of how the guys were beginning to 0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:18.080 argue about their tradition, I also made the decision that 0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:22.199 they agreed to that our sessions were not going to 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:25.800 be practice sessions. They were going to be study sessions. 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:30.240 And yet even though they all agreed on that, it 0:27:30.280 --> 0:27:33.080 didn't happen that way. What happened was I found that 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:40.480 they had a deep, deep love of meditation. So what 0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.960 I did was, as part of this twenty two page outline, 0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:49.800 I extracted from Buddhist ceremonies a few of the main 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:54.160