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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Michael and I'm Scott. Every week at this

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Speaker 1: time plus Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursdays, we explore the big

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Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. On this week's show,

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Speaker 1: we have Tim Lanwicki, the founder of OPIEW Group. In

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Speaker 1: just a few minutes. But first let's look at the

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Speaker 1: top stories of the week. Joining us is Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: of Sports reporter Evan Novie Williams, and let's start with Michigan.

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Speaker 1: It's a story that I first had seen out of

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Speaker 1: the Detroit Free Press, and it involves donors. Explained, please,

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Speaker 1: but you're a Detroit guy, and you said the full name.

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Speaker 1: Don't you just say the Free Yeah, but you said

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Speaker 1: the Detroit Free But I wanted to give extra props

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Speaker 1: to Detroit. Oh yeah, you got an extra Detroit mention. Now, well,

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Speaker 1: not on first reference full Detroit Free Press. From now on,

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Speaker 1: we will just say free. Nice job by the Free Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it has it's I mean, it's a wealthy family donating

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Speaker 1: to the university, to the football program, sending them abroad,

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Speaker 1: things like that. However, that's like it seems I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: is but in the what could be quid pro quo?

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Speaker 1: The university then invests with the families funds. Uh, doesn't

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Speaker 1: look great. Doesn't pass the smell test when you don't

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Speaker 1: want examination of these things. Yeah, it seems like a

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Speaker 1: good deal if you're a donor and you've given as

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Speaker 1: as Donald Graham and his family have sixty million dollars

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Speaker 1: to the university over the past few years and the

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Speaker 1: university has in turn invested over a hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Do I have this right? It's been a long time

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Speaker 1: since I've been in a class one hundred greater than

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Speaker 1: and I'm making that little alligator. That's how you learned

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Speaker 1: it greater than. It's a good deal for the grand family. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: And the Michigan football team went to went to Paris

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Speaker 1: this year, went to France. Uh. Donald Graham was one

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Speaker 1: of the donors alongside at Yeah, they each they split

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Speaker 1: the cost of of this great experience. Again, as we

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Speaker 1: talk about money in college nobody also Jordan Brand also

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Speaker 1: a Jordan company. Um, but yeah, this probably happens across

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Speaker 1: college sports in a lot of ways. And good on

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Speaker 1: on the Free Press for for exposing it. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about soccer Syrian deal with ESPN that Well, guess what

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Speaker 1: Cristiano Ronaldo heads to Syria and Syria gets a big

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Speaker 1: deal on ESPN platforms. This is ESPN plus. Everybody's fighting

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Speaker 1: for the stuff. And it was what was it on

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Speaker 1: b N being last year. Let's be leive it was

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Speaker 1: in be In and you just it was the same

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Speaker 1: as La Liga, by the way, had to be and deal.

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Speaker 1: They took the money. They took the money the first

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Speaker 1: time a lot of these leagues because Bean was offering

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Speaker 1: big dollars, but they don't get the exposure. I think

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Speaker 1: they've come to realize that you need to be seen,

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Speaker 1: you need you need these brands, you need these players.

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Speaker 1: You can't have Ronaldo not being seen in the United States.

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Speaker 1: If you're a global soccer fan here in the US,

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Speaker 1: I think you're realizing that you know this, this era

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Speaker 1: of being able to watch all these great tournaments with

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Speaker 1: ease and at low cost is over. You know, the

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Speaker 1: sport is popular enough now in the US that you

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Speaker 1: know Syria behind a paywall now at ESPN plus, A

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Speaker 1: large portion or or a portion of the Premier League

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Speaker 1: on NBC now behind the paywall. When Turner got Champions

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Speaker 1: League that is now also behind a paywall. Largely uh

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Speaker 1: in the past, we've been able to watch a lot

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Speaker 1: of these soccer and say what you will about being

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Speaker 1: it didn't have the distribution in the US, but it

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Speaker 1: was part of a lot of cable packages. That's no

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Speaker 1: longer true as well, they're feuding with Verizon. I believe

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Speaker 1: soccer is becoming harder or just more expensive to watch

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Speaker 1: in the US as US consumers draw themselves like the

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Speaker 1: battle for content though, because if you're going to charge,

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Speaker 1: and what was ESPN plus like six bucks so so,

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Speaker 1: so if you're going to charge, I mean I would say,

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Speaker 1: do I get value? I'm now getting nine matches live

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Speaker 1: from August to May. If I'm a soccer fan from Syria,

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Speaker 1: including Cristiano Ronaldo, I can watch Mila Roma inter Milan.

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Speaker 1: I see value there. I want to see these teams. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is the Serian deal? Is this a wave of the

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Speaker 1: future for soccer deals to bring it here to the US.

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Speaker 1: It's the wave of the now. Yeah, the future is now.

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Speaker 1: You have all these O T teams fighting for content. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: these at Bayern Munich has an office here in New York.

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Speaker 1: Everybody is fighting for their share of the sponsorship dollar

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Speaker 1: in the US. It's the biggest sports sponsorship market in

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Speaker 1: the world, and all these clubs, these are brand names.

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Speaker 1: Barcelona has an office here. They are fighting for the

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Speaker 1: share of the dollar. And you better be popular. But

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Speaker 1: the kids here better be playing your team on the

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Speaker 1: video games. They better be watching your games on on

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Speaker 1: not only Saturdays if it's EPL, but throughout the week.

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Speaker 1: They better buy your jerseys. That's how you make the money.

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Speaker 1: This is the next story. The next story here is

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Speaker 1: something you wrote about Cal Ripken Jr. The Iron Man

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Speaker 1: and his baseball company. Yeah, everybody knew Cal had this

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Speaker 1: sort of baseball company. It aimed at youth. He has

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Speaker 1: three facilities in the US, including one in Aberdeen, Maryland,

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Speaker 1: where he's from. But as we said Edvan in previous shows,

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Speaker 1: it's it's about what can I do now I've gotten

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Speaker 1: something to a certain point and then I need help,

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Speaker 1: whether it's f one and Bernie ecclestone or Cal Ripken Jr.

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Speaker 1: And this entity. So he brought on Lion Tree, which

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Speaker 1: invests a lot in the tech digital space. Um, the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Lion Tree is gonna be on the board

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna look to see how do they scale

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Speaker 1: this business. The existing model number one. But then how

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Speaker 1: do they scale it? Using technology driving digital? How can

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Speaker 1: they scale what Cal has already built. It certainly seems

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Speaker 1: like a good group to bring on board for for

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Speaker 1: folks who don't know Lion Try. They're a big investor

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Speaker 1: in the athletic the subscription sports news service, uh, Fubo TV,

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Speaker 1: Second Spectrum, the sports data company. Uh. You know, they've

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Speaker 1: They've worked with Snap, They've worked with the Charter Communications

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Speaker 1: Time Warner cable merger. You know, these are people that

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Speaker 1: that that really ut an investment bank, really understands the

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Speaker 1: digital space, how new media is evolving. And Scott said,

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Speaker 1: if you're Cal Ripken and his baseball group, that is

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Speaker 1: certainly a valuable wealth of information attack and count told

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Speaker 1: me they've been talking about it for years. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: just to sort of let's do it. He was getting

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Speaker 1: to know area for a while and then said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this makes sense, let's move on. So not just knee

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Speaker 1: jerk our Thanks to Bloomberg Business of Sports reporter Evan

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Speaker 1: Novi Williams, and now for this week's interview, we speak

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Speaker 1: with Tim Lawicki, the founder of oak View Group, a

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles based global advisory Development, an investment company for

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Speaker 1: the sports and live entertainment industries. Tim is a sports

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Speaker 1: executive with an extensive resume, being former president and CEO

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Speaker 1: of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment and former president and

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Speaker 1: CEO of A E. G. Michael. He certainly knows his

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Speaker 1: way around the sports world, and Tim, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joy us on this show. We talk about sports

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Speaker 1: business and that encompasses a whole bunch of stuff. What

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Speaker 1: is foremost on your mind when we say the sports

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Speaker 1: business world, Well, let's differentiate between my mind, which occasionally

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Speaker 1: could be nothing more than just a waste land, and

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Speaker 1: our business, which is really about the facility side. And

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Speaker 1: I think you you're spot on us to the changes

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Speaker 1: in sports and the business side of sports. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: much more complicated, much more diverse. So today, if you

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Speaker 1: look forty fifty years ago, when I first started in

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Speaker 1: the industry, there were sports owners that were in the

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Speaker 1: business to selling tickets. That's what the industry was, sot

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Speaker 1: tickets and winning games. And then suddenly things began to change.

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Speaker 1: And it didn't change in one big felt swoop. It

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Speaker 1: was different eras and different influence. And we began to

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Speaker 1: see the influence of distribution. Let us not forget that

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Speaker 1: many of the owners today and professional sports we're still are,

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Speaker 1: became owners of their various teams in their various assets

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Speaker 1: when there were three or four networks. It wasn't that

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Speaker 1: long ago that we were all talking about the genius

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Speaker 1: of Fox and their NFL bed that ultimately made them

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Speaker 1: a viable fourth network for distribution. And the NFL also

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Speaker 1: made the Simpsons the Simpsons, and we know what happened

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Speaker 1: with that franchise, yea. And so ironically, this whole period

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Speaker 1: of distribution is an influence and an impact that has

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Speaker 1: happened in the last thirty to forty years in sports

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Speaker 1: and is getting even more challenging, more interesting, and more

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Speaker 1: opportunistic as we now see streaming and what the impact

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Speaker 1: of streaming is to businesses like music, and whether or

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Speaker 1: not that ultimately will have an impact on sports. Time

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Speaker 1: will tell, But I think we have only begun to

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Speaker 1: see the first part of the evolution and thus the

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Speaker 1: pact of distribution. And then these little things like marinos

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Speaker 1: and stadiums and facilities started becoming much more important, and

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Speaker 1: we went from a municipally based vision on how to

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Speaker 1: build stadiums, you know, when I was just started in

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Speaker 1: the business and I was growing up as a young type.

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Speaker 1: Remember the baseball stadium. So if you have thought about

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Speaker 1: Bush Stadium where I grew up in St. Louis, if

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Speaker 1: you thought about UM, Cincinnatti and their ballpark, Pittsburgh and

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Speaker 1: their ballpark UM, all of the baseball stadiums looked a

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Speaker 1: lot alike. They were those concrete round jungles, and every

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Speaker 1: one of them kind of stuck to the same blueprint,

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Speaker 1: except the great traditional old buildings like Wrigley or Fenway.

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Speaker 1: But it was they were cookie cutters, and they were

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Speaker 1: municipally driven, and they were kind of put up without

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Speaker 1: a lot of imagination, a lot of amenities, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of thinking about suddenly the different revenue streams that

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Speaker 1: we're going to have an impact. Everything kind of changed

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Speaker 1: with the Palace. That was the first building I remember, Tim,

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Speaker 1: I have to jump in on you my my now

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Speaker 1: late cousin, Bob Sosnick. Don't ask me the the Detroit

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Speaker 1: Sashniks lost the h and the New York Sashniks kept it.

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Speaker 1: But my my late cousin Bob Sosnik was one of

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Speaker 1: the founders and partners on the original palace isn't. Then

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Speaker 1: it's amazing people never given that building credit, but it

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Speaker 1: was the first one that kind of thought a little

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Speaker 1: bit outside the box. Then doc Bus came along with

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Speaker 1: the Forum, and suddenly there was Senate seats and naming

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Speaker 1: rights and things began to change. And then the buildings

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Speaker 1: became much more sophisticated, much more driven by revenue streams.

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Speaker 1: And now I'd argue that there are many sports assets

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Speaker 1: where either the land and or the buildings are more

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Speaker 1: valuable or as valuable as the team's um stand Cronky

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Speaker 1: is spending. The rumor is five billion dollars keep going

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Speaker 1: the price that keeps going up. Yeah, I don't know

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Speaker 1: when this is going to be broadcasts, but yeah, you

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Speaker 1: wait a week, it could be six billions. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's a pretty good example of how suddenly the

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Speaker 1: facilities became much more complicated and much more profitable. And

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Speaker 1: then we had entertainment districts that suddenly came along, and

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Speaker 1: now sports owners were developers, and so they were developers,

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Speaker 1: they were builders, they were facility owner and operators, they

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Speaker 1: were regional network UH distribution partner creators and owners, and

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Speaker 1: everything got so much more complicated. But that's why sports

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Speaker 1: teams have become so much more valuable, and that having

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Speaker 1: the discretionary income suddenly not being just reliant on tickets

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Speaker 1: or distribution or sponsorship, and now you have literally twelve

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Speaker 1: fifteen different major line items that all of these business

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Speaker 1: entities are creating, and that the sports team is at

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Speaker 1: the center of the universe. But it's no longer not

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Speaker 1: only the universe, it's not even the majority of the

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Speaker 1: universe anymore. That's kind of what's changed. And so what

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Speaker 1: OPEU is doing is saying, instead of trying to be

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Speaker 1: all things to all people, let's find a niche that

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Speaker 1: we ultimately get very focused on and get very good at.

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Speaker 1: And that niche happens to be the facility side of it.

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Speaker 1: Since I made a Simpsons reference earlier, this is what

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Speaker 1: I think about as in what you just described as

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Speaker 1: the evolution. There's there's a famous scene in The Simpsons

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Speaker 1: where there's a you see them going into mom and

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Speaker 1: Pop's hardware shop and then there's you know what's coming.

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Speaker 1: There's a little little sign as you're going in that

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Speaker 1: says a division of Global Dominance THINGK. Mom and Pop

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Speaker 1: is the team the Global Dominance Ink is everything else

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Speaker 1: that robs around it Now, Well, look, all you had

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Speaker 1: to do is look at companies like Amazon and and

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Speaker 1: you know, the ten years ago, the largest um hotel

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Speaker 1: company in the world didn't exist, and now it's Airbnb.

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Speaker 1: And so you look at the largest transportation company and

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Speaker 1: at least the United States is not worldwide soon Uber

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Speaker 1: and Left didn't exist. Uh, the iPhone didn't exist twelve

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Speaker 1: years ago. Amazon was kind of it was a book company.

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Speaker 1: It was a retail bookstore. So it's pretty amazing how

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Speaker 1: quickly everything is changing, how much more global everything is,

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Speaker 1: how much more dominant a few players are, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's really gonna I think good news for sports. As

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Speaker 1: I think sports, if you think about TV and distribution

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Speaker 1: and ratings, sports and live types of results are still

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Speaker 1: going to be very very critical to the distribute and platforms,

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Speaker 1: no matter who it is that wins this battle, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's good for sports. I think we're always

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Speaker 1: going to be in a good position to be relevant

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Speaker 1: about where people spend their time, what people want to watch,

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Speaker 1: where people want to spend their money, and what people

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Speaker 1: are willing to be part of the live experience to see.

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Speaker 1: We're talking with Tim Lwicky, who is the CEO of

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Speaker 1: the Oakview Group. I gotta go back to something you said,

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Speaker 1: because I'm a native Detroitter and you mentioned the Palace,

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Speaker 1: and you're exactly right. And this is a very quick story.

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Speaker 1: When I went to go see the Palace, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this place is gorgeous. But if I

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Speaker 1: remember right, it was right around the end time of

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Speaker 1: the old Tiger Stadium in Michigan and Trumbull and I

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Speaker 1: went back to watch a game at the old Tiger Stadium.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, and obviously they've torn it down. So

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Speaker 1: now you have a whole brand new facility, uh, with

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Speaker 1: America Park and everything in the Detroit area with baseball,

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Speaker 1: Ford Field for foot ball, and now you have the

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Speaker 1: Red Wings all playing there too. Yeah, Little Caesar's And

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering, by the way, the Palace is yeah, soon

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Speaker 1: to be going. Yeah, it's I'm wondering if this is

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Speaker 1: the way of the future where everything now is put

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Speaker 1: into a centralized location for all the major sports groups.

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Speaker 1: You know, I wish I was I wish I was

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Speaker 1: smart enough to predict the future. I wish that that

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Speaker 1: there was someone like Nostre damas we could go see

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Speaker 1: and have a pretty good idea where all of this

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Speaker 1: is going, because everything changes so rapidly. I just in

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Speaker 1: my career, I've been through mass actodents to the suburbs,

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Speaker 1: I e. The Palace. And if you think about these

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Speaker 1: arenas and stadiums that were built um and and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, they were being built on the outskirts

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Speaker 1: of the urban core instead of in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the urban core. So go look at Phoenix and what

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Speaker 1: they did with both hockey arena and the football stadium.

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Speaker 1: It works for football, it doesn't work for hockey. Vastly

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Speaker 1: different things rest different audiences. Yep. But but now Suddenly

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Speaker 1: in Detroit is a really good example the success of

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Speaker 1: the Palace. And that was the dominant building in the marketplace.

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Speaker 1: The Pistons were the hot team, The Palace was the

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Speaker 1: hot building. They built an Amphitheater nearby. Between the Amphitheater

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Speaker 1: and the Palace, that's where all the music went. Nothing

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Speaker 1: went to the Joe except for the hockey games. You

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Speaker 1: wouldn't go down there to go see music. Suddenly in

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Speaker 1: one felt just a complete brand new philosophy in that town.

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Speaker 1: With the football stadium, the baseball stadium, the hockey and

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Speaker 1: the basketball arena now all being located downtown. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, the Elis family owning what twenty some odd

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Speaker 1: blocks of real estate and the urban core and those

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Speaker 1: stadiums in the football that they attract is going to

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Speaker 1: be the core of ultimately building on a new vision

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Speaker 1: of urban rejuven anian and development. And so we in

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Speaker 1: all of our lifetimes, we saw an exodus to the

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Speaker 1: suburbs where people were giving away land and willing to

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Speaker 1: underwrite stadiums. And you saw things like Gillette Stadium that

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Speaker 1: that left the urban core of downtown Boston. Um, it

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Speaker 1: was actually never there, but it it went way on

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Speaker 1: the outskirts of that metropolitan area. And everything is changing

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Speaker 1: now and so everything is coming back down into the

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Speaker 1: urban core and the stadiums and arenas. After being told

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Speaker 1: for years and years and years by these professors and

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Speaker 1: politicians and the NIMBI leaders that they weren't ultimately good

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Speaker 1: economic generators, they wouldn't ultimately turn the economy around in

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Speaker 1: these communities, it's exactly the opposite. They now are the

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Speaker 1: the golden gem that many communities are trying to encourage

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Speaker 1: private developers to come in and put back down in

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Speaker 1: the urban core and then playing a whole entertainment district

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Speaker 1: and thus a massive rejuvenation of the inner city around

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Speaker 1: these sports and entertainment facilities. And so everything goes in cycles.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we'll see another one in our lifetime, but I

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Speaker 1: think right now what we are seeing is, UM, you're

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Speaker 1: occasionally going to see things like Jerry Jones and and

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Speaker 1: that beautiful, unbelievable stadium that he's built, and that's on

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Speaker 1: clearly on the outskirts of Dallas, but that's unique to Texas.

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Speaker 1: Texas does things a little bit differently. Houston and Dallas. UM,

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Speaker 1: they don't have the same kind of urban drive and

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Speaker 1: energy that a lot of the other cities have, and

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Speaker 1: for example, to the northeast. Maybe maybe we will see

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Speaker 1: another cycle, but for right now, what's interesting to me

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Speaker 1: is we're seeing a lot of these facilities and a

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Speaker 1: lot of money being spent on these facilities like Detroit,

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Speaker 1: like what's happening now in Milwaukee, who like what happened

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Speaker 1: in downtown Minneapolis with the football stadium, in the baseball

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Speaker 1: stadium and the and the basketball arena. These are the

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Speaker 1: real catalyst in the nucleus is for spurring on great

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Speaker 1: rejuvenation and economic impact, and it's it's a fascinating time

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Speaker 1: because most of that burden is shifted to the private sector,

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Speaker 1: and yet they're still getting built. Yeah, we are chatting

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Speaker 1: with Tim Lawicky founded the Oak Few Group and Tim,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what everything old is new again in Seattle.

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Speaker 1: Your project, you're refurbishing key arena. The key here Howard

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Speaker 1: Schultz was unable to get it done because he asked

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Speaker 1: for public money. We all know the Sonics leave, but

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Speaker 1: you're in now your partners, David Bonderman, he's in on

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Speaker 1: the group. I mean, how do you see this moving

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Speaker 1: forward in terms of the broader real estate play in

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Speaker 1: the market like Seattle. Well, so the first thing we

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Speaker 1: did that was thinking outside the boxes. We literally are

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Speaker 1: everyone says we're we're refurbishing or um doing kind of

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Speaker 1: a refresher there. It's actually it's a whole new arena.

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Speaker 1: So what's happening is we're gutting everything underneath that roof,

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Speaker 1: just tearing everything out, would you say? And they didn't

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Speaker 1: want restoration, they wanted the word. The thing with MSG

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Speaker 1: is the bull for the most part, state intact. They

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Speaker 1: put in new seats and new scoreboards, but that bowl

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Speaker 1: didn't change much. So what's happening in in key arenas.

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Speaker 1: We will literally tear everything out of the building, so

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Speaker 1: every piece of concrete, every piece of rebarb to support beams,

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Speaker 1: the seats, the concourses, everything, We excavate the entire arena

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Speaker 1: out of that that hole, we go down another fifteen feet,

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Speaker 1: we go out about thirty five ft on each side,

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Speaker 1: and we double the size of the hole. So we

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Speaker 1: suddenly go from three fifty four thousand square feet to

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Speaker 1: seven fifty thousand square feet and we build a brand

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Speaker 1: new arena, but we keep the roof because the roof

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Speaker 1: was built in nineteen sixty two. It's a historic monument federal, state,

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Speaker 1: and city. And we're paying homage to the seventy four

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Speaker 1: acres of the Seattle Center, which was really created for

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Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty two Worlds Fair in Seattle, and that's

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Speaker 1: when the space Needle was built, and that's when that

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Speaker 1: arena was built. And so what we're doing that's different

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Speaker 1: than others have tried, and some have done like the

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Speaker 1: Acurvely Is back in the nineties. We're literally gutting it

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Speaker 1: and building a brand new arena. And so we're spending

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Speaker 1: seven million dollars and we'll have a brand new arena,

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Speaker 1: and we're privatizing it. And the reason that you can

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Speaker 1: privatize it today is interest rates are low. That's not

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Speaker 1: gonna stay forever, but for right now, you kind of

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Speaker 1: look at either getting the money for free from the

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Speaker 1: public sector and fighting that battle with the politics and

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Speaker 1: um and the question of do communities reably have a

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Speaker 1: better use of that money. I for one thing, they do,

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Speaker 1: I'd rather spend it on education, safety, and transportation. Party

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Speaker 1: hear that a guy who's putting up an arena, I know,

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Speaker 1: with private funds, But a guy putting up an arena

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Speaker 1: is saying he doesn't like the use of public funds

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Speaker 1: for arenas. Yeah, every day, I didn't. I didn't that

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Speaker 1: at all. Sometimes you nap in the all. I want

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Speaker 1: to make sure you know it's it's it's old man.

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Speaker 1: So each city has a different kind of economic desire.

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Speaker 1: So in the case of Staples Center in l a Live,

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Speaker 1: it was for the most part, completely privately financed by

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Speaker 1: a g In the case of Seattle is completely privately finance.

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Speaker 1: But you're gonna see others like Sprint Center in Kansas City. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're working on a project now on an East coast

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Speaker 1: city that's not going to get an anchor tenant. We

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Speaker 1: do need a little bit of help out of the city.

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Speaker 1: But for the most part, I do believe in these

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Speaker 1: private public relationships. I do believe the private sector should

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Speaker 1: take the majority, if not all, the risk, and I

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Speaker 1: do think cities ultimately should stay focused on the core

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Speaker 1: services that only cities and municipalities are going to be

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Speaker 1: able to provide, and that's life safety, it's transportation, it's education,

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Speaker 1: and we and we need them to stay focused on

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Speaker 1: it because clearly we're not doing a good enough job.

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Speaker 1: So I'm okay right now trying to find those opportunities

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Speaker 1: within our company where we find a private public partnership,

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Speaker 1: we seek every incentive we possibly can get. In the

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Speaker 1: case of Seattle, we get historic tax credits because we

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Speaker 1: did keep the roof in place. But you know, money

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Speaker 1: is reasonably cheap still, and if you could go out

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Speaker 1: and borrow it at a decent rate, why not challenge

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Speaker 1: yourself and put the burden on things like naming rights, sweets,

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Speaker 1: premium seats, and sponsorship. Did you lock in the price

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Speaker 1: of raw materials or is that having an effect on

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Speaker 1: the overall budget. Uh? No, we did not, and yes

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Speaker 1: it is, and so I guess it's not. I'm not

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Speaker 1: on the down. I don't know if this is a

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Speaker 1: a little negotiation game we're playing right now on harriffs.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is uh a true um

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Speaker 1: long term debate that is going to continue. Uh. But

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Speaker 1: for us in the in the industry where we buy

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Speaker 1: rebarbed and we buy steele, and we buy aluminum and

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Speaker 1: a lot of other goods that are manufactured outside the

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Speaker 1: United States, UM or even in the case of some

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Speaker 1: of the materials inside the United States, what's happened is

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Speaker 1: we have seen a rapid inflation on those costs because

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Speaker 1: even even when you have manufacturers and suppliers that are

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Speaker 1: within the United States, they know they could charge more

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Speaker 1: now because of the tariffs and so UM it costs

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Speaker 1: mortability things. We've seen pretty rapid cost increase in Seattle.

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Speaker 1: But my guess is this will calm down and hopefully

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Speaker 1: he's just negotiating. We're talking with Tim Lewicki, the se

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Speaker 1: CEO of the Oak View Group. And don't we go

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Speaker 1: back to some of you mentioning earlier about transportation in

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Speaker 1: the city's getting to sporting venues and things like that.

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Speaker 1: Will it become a necessity one day for the sports

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Speaker 1: groups to provide some sort of transportation, some sort of

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Speaker 1: light rail service to get to their venues a bar.

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Speaker 1: Guess what you know? He's also developing the the Elmont

429
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: Arena for the New York Islanders. That's like that. You

430
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: want to know if you need transportations as an example, Yeah,

431
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: that's what I'm getting at. So, yes, So it's a

432
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: really interesting question. And we're so we have twelve of

433
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: these facilities that we're either locked in on, like Seattle

434
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: or Belmont or um. We we have a couple of

435
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: others that we haven't announced yet and I'm trying not

436
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: to announce them here one of the East Coast city

437
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: that doesn't have an anchor tenant. That's that's true, and

438
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: I'd be okay if you'd like to tell us find

439
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: is So I'm um. The constant debate is the one

440
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: we just talked about, which is trying to really define

441
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: sports and facility owners and developers and what our role

442
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: is with the municipalities in the cities and in some

443
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: cases states, and trying to find that balance now of

444
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: saying are we I do think we need to take

445
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: a step back and read communities properly, and I think

446
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: part of that is understanding the massive amount of of

447
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: money and capital that we're going to need on our

448
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: infrastructure systems, including transportation the private sector when we're building

449
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 1: these facilities. And we've repeated this in both New York

450
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: with Belmont and in Washington with Seattle and the Sandal

451
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: Center Arena. We were not in the transportation business. We

452
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: don't have the wear with all to go plan transportation.

453
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: What what we won. We must rely on the communities

454
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: and the cities and the governments to stay focused on

455
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: the core Big three, which is transportation, education, and safety.

456
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: And that means we probably have to take an even

457
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 1: greater risk and roll on privatizing these points of destination facilities.

458
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 1: That's the balance, that's the private public partnership. But I

459
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: also think we all got to take a step back

460
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: and go, look, this is changing so quickly. So we

461
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: we predict in Seattle the people that will come to

462
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: our arena are going to come from Uber Lift or

463
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: the other like companies in that particular category. We think

464
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: that by the time we open up an arena like

465
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: Belmont UH and Seattle and the other ones we're working on.

466
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: The last mile of transportation could include things like drones UH.

467
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: And we think more and more as we see where

468
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 1: technology is going, the last mile is gonna go through

469
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: a rapid rapid change. As to thinking outside the box

470
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: on people and how they're gonna come and go to

471
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: these facilities. It's gonna be less about parking, it's gonna

472
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: be less about parking structures. It's going to be more

473
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: about light rail, monorail, um, uber lift, drones. And we're

474
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: going to live in a very different world five to

475
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: ten years from now because the technology and the as

476
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: I said, um Airbnb didn't exist ten years ago. Uber

477
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: lift didn't exist ten years ago. Our iPhone that controls

478
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: our life didn't exist twelve years ago. Spotify didn't exist

479
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: six years ago. So we got to think outside the

480
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: box on how rapid the technology change is occurring and

481
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: how whether that be the customer experience in five g

482
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: and what that allows us to do with our customers

483
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: on you know, now we could pre reserve parking spaces,

484
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: we could tell them how to get to the parking space,

485
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: We tell them how to walk from that parking space

486
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: to the most convenient entry. We tell them the concession

487
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: stands and the food they want to eat, and how

488
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: to get there, and then how to get to their seat.

489
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: We're not in the business of transportation, but we are

490
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: absolutely in the business of thinking about how that transportation

491
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: is going to change, how people are going to want

492
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: to come to these buildings, and in the case of

493
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,479
Speaker 1: the urban buildings, I think the last mile is going

494
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: to be the great challenge now for developers to think

495
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: through how people are going to utilize different technology and

496
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: modes of transportation to get to and from these buildings.

497
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: Tim Lawicki, the CEO of the oak View Group, we

498
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 1: got to have you back because we just the whole

499
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: interview went by. We didn't even touch on in arena

500
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: experience that we that we wanted to talk about, and

501
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: we just scratch the surface. I learned a long time

502
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: ago with Scott if if I let him ask me

503
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: one question and then give a really long answer, I

504
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: don't get into trouble with his other question. You know

505
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: I've got more in my back pocket. I've got I've

506
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: got way more. I know brother for him. All the

507
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: time you asked me questions I gave answers and then

508
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: people call me afterwards going, do you realize what you did? Said?

509
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, what did I say? You just deny?

510
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: It tended to work for somebody we all know, alright, Tim,

511
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: thanks so much, appreciate it. Than takeaways from Tim Lwicky,

512
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: there are many takeaways. I think the biggest thing that

513
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: I noticed is that when you're dealing with a live

514
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: entertainment group and they promote the show this, that's all

515
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: out there. How it has come such a long way

516
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: from just the good old days of hey, let's just

517
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: sell some tickets. Now show up, don't worry. It's a

518
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: night and day difference. Now, my takeaways, you better pray

519
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: and pray hard because, as Tim said, it was out

520
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: to the suburbs, let's go to Detroit. That's what that

521
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: was the trend and then all of a sudden, what

522
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: do you do when you build your thing and you're

523
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: sort of on that trend line? Now it's reverse course.

524
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: Now we're back to the city. Yeah, you know, you

525
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: hope you get it right and then and sometimes they

526
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: do and sometimes they don't. And my takeaway is that,

527
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: like WICKI has a very long memory when he said,

528
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: only give me the chance at one question, because if

529
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: you answered more, you're gonna get in troubles. He denied

530
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: something he said to me, and that's why we were

531
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: joking about it. So the takeaway here is Tim LAWICKI

532
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: does not forget youn't want to feel better to be

533
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: number one than number five. I'll wear a number because

534
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: of Mike. We have a chance to go for three

535
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: in a row. Kid numbers in a good time. And

536
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: I first started wearing the number, I would just happy

537
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: and floomberg. Business of sports, the number of the week.

538
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: Time Now for the number of the week, and I've

539
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: got to talk about I know we had one way

540
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: we're thinking about going, but I got to talk about

541
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: this number. The number is ninety one off no Detroit? No, well,

542
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: no he was, He's in Detroit. Know, yes he was.

543
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: That's but that's not if this is NASCAR related's not idea.

544
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: You had shown me how to do a survey on

545
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: and finally we're going to answer this question once and

546
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: for all. The question was, if you are blindfolded, can

547
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: you tell the difference between pepsi and coke? And out

548
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: of like about six people said yes, really, yes, I

549
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: am Yeah, how do we get so many? How do

550
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: we get responses? I was shocked. I was amazed that

551
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: we got that people that came in. It's but yeah.

552
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: In fact, some of the people on Twitter, one person wrote,

553
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: I hope you're really joking about this question, because I

554
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: guess this is obviously something that you know. It's everybody knows.

555
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: I'm on the I'm in the minority on this one.

556
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: I cannot tell. I don't care. I'm brand agnostic when

557
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: it comes to my coke or to my cola of choice.

558
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: And again about people said, yeah, we can tell the difference.

559
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: Good for them. I guess that's why it matters. Thank you,

560
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: Just snarky, you've been listening to The Bloomberg Business of Sports.

561
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: We're here each and every week at the same time,

562
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: plus online as an Apple podcast. You can catch that Monday's,

563
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: Wednesdays and Thursdays. I'm Michael barn on Twitter at Big

564
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: Bar Sports Big Bar, and I'm Scott Sashnik. You can

565
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at Sashnik. Thanks very much for

566
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: joining us. Please tune in next week when we speak

567
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: with the biggest and brightest in the sports business industry.

568
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio

569
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: around the world and online as an Apple podcast on iTunes,