WEBVTT - Pete Souza: Obama's Photographer 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:09.280 Hi, Brian. Hi, Katie. So if a picture is worth 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:12.399 a thousand words, what do you think one point nine 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:15.600 million pictures are worth? Brian? I was never very good 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.600 at math, Katie, A lot a lot of words. I 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.040 find that hard to believe, because you're good at everything. 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:26.400 Well enough. That's how many pictures today's guest took in 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:30.280 his eight years as the chief official White House photographer 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.880 for President Barack Obama. That is right, Katie. Pete Susa 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.960 is responsible for some of the most amazing and iconic 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.600 photos from President Obama's time in the White House, Like 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.519 one of my favorites, the one from the Oval office 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.839 of President Obama bending over so a little African American 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.519 boy could touch his hair to see if it's like 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.400 his own, or or how about that picture which we 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.680 discuss from the Situation room when the National Security team 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.400 watched the raid that killed us on a bit laden 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.480 and never forget those intense expressions on everyone's face for 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:07.120 the fact that Hillary Clinton was the only woman seated 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.680 in a room full of men. But I digress. Anyway, 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.840 we talked with Pete Susa about his experience working for 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.360 President Reagan. He was in that White House too, about 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.240 how he first got to know Barack Obama when he 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.000 was a junior senator from Illinois, and about his continuing 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.479 relationship with the president, which has lasted to this day. 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.800 And if you want to see what we're talking about 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.160 instead of just listening to us talk about photographs. I 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.199 am wondering about this medium to talk to a photographer, 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.840 but hopefully we're painting some pictures for you and our descriptions. 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.800 Pete is out this week with a book of photographs 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:53.040 called Obama An Intimate Portrait. I'm looking at Pete's beautiful book, 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.000 which has some of the beautiful photos that you took 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.720 during your eight years of covering President Obama. Uh, you 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.400 must have gotten to know him very very well, Pete, 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:05.960 And I'm sure you could write an excellent tell all, 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.679 but you're not going to tell us about what you 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:16.560 observed and learned from being around Barack Obama all that 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:23.680 time in a whole array of situations. Oh, where to begin, Katie. Um. 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.680 I met him on his first day in the Senate, 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:29.520 so in January, I think it's January four of five, 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:34.360 and still know him today, just saw him last week, 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:39.800 and the character of the guy has not changed one bit. 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:45.640 Even though he had this amazing job for eight years, 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:51.639 grueling so many experiences, the core of him is still 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:57.120 the same. How would you describe that core decent? He's 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.400 a decent man, trying truly every day. I think he 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.960 went to work and he was thinking about what's the 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.880 best thing for the country in any decision, some of 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.840 which were not politically popular. He also thought about that 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.720 we live in this age of social media and everything's 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:24.080 today and react right away, and he was not afraid 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.120 to think the long term. Right, What's what's the right 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.679 thing to do in the long term, Pete, What would 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:35.160 you say are President Obama's biggest strengths and weaknesses? And 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.880 and along those lines, what do you think the public 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:44.600 doesn't get still about President Obama? The I started arguing 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.440 with a not arguing. I started responding to a question 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:52.360 the other day from a I won't mention person's name, 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.240 but they were like, tell me about the two Barack Obamas. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.000 And I'm like, there's not two Barack Obamas. What do 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:02.320 you talk about? And I think the point being that 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:08.000 he said that President Obama was aloof and he was 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:13.280 not aloof. People tend to try to caricaturize our presidents 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:18.200 based on incomplete information, and I think that's what's happened 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.080 in this case. He was he was a guy who 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:26.159 had a core group of friends, He enjoyed spending time 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.680 with his family, and he he didn't like the Washington 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.520 you know, party circuit, and so I think a lot 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:37.720 of people thought, because he didn't socialize the way you're 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:42.240 supposed to socialize in Washington, that people came up with 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.120 this idea that he was aloof. So it's just like, 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.400 let's knock that down right now. Having said that he 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:50.880 was a cool customer, I mean, let's face it, I 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.400 think he was very h I would say he had 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.880 a cool temperament, wouldn't you say? No, No, absolutely, very 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.760 even tempered. You know, it's interesting sing the Some people 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.840 have asked me to compare him with President Reagan, who 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.560 I also spent some time as a White House photographer 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.000 for President Reagan. That's sort of like the one characteristic 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.240 that they had that was similar, where Reagan two was 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:19.040 very even, even tempered. But President Obama maybe even more so. 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:21.840 I think that had to do with his upbringing and 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:26.840 being from Hawaii. Um, your listeners know that he actually 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.640 wasn't born in Kenya, right, hopefully. Okay, I don't know, 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:32.560 you know, because we have a lot of faith in 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.680 our listeners, so I believe they do. But Pete, you 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.839 still want to answer the question, what what were his 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:43.760 biggest weaknesses and biggest strengths? Weaknesses at all? I mean weaknesses. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.839 It's like it's hard, It's it's hard to say. Okay, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.159 he wasn't that good of a dancer. How's that he 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.680 thought he was? But he really wasn't. You know. He's 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:55.680 a good singer though, I gotta say he carried a 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.839 tune pretty well. He was so good when he sang 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:01.680 al Green. What other songs did he used to sing? Um? 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:03.520 Lean on Me? You know, that was a big one. 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.359 I think little Bill Withers. Yeah, what else? Um? You know, 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:14.600 earth Wind and Fire really September wonder you know? Yeah? 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:16.760 And what do you think the public still doesn't get 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.240 about Barack Obama? Oh? I think they. I think they 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.640 get Barack Obama. I really do. I think they get him. 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.520 He was two. I'll tell you two things about him 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.360 that maybe well, people may know about him, but they 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:33.599 don't know this much about him. One very disciplined guy. 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.200 I mean, this is a guy who just in terms 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:41.840 of like exercise and diet, more discipline than any other 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:43.880 person I've ever met, didn't He used to eat like 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:48.160 six almonds on his desk. Yeah, that was just somebody 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.240 I think told that to a reporter almost as a joke. 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:53.560 They were trying to make the point that he didn't 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:59.360 eat like you know, so they this number of almonds 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:02.599 every day. I don't know that that was true. Can 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:07.039 we like curse on this? Yeah? Okay, that was bullshit, 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:15.280 you know, I think I'm kidding. Okay, I think he was. 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.360 I think he was. Probably people were probably goofing on 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.680 him for being so disciplined, right, And that is one 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:26.120 of his key characteristics, wasn't it well? But it carried 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:30.840 over to his work. And so every night, uh, sometime 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:35.840 after dinner, between like seven thirty and nine thirty, depending 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.840 how organized the staff was, he would get his briefing 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.360 book for the next day. It was a stick binder 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.080 memos for every meeting that he was going to have 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:48.640 background you know, a schedule list of people that were 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:53.360 coming to any event and their background memos for national 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:58.320 security meetings, things like that. And he was disciplined so 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.000 much that I can account maybe one or two or 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.360 three times in eight years where he'd be in a 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:09.840 meeting and he wouldn't say I read the memos. So 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.800 let's just get to the crux of the issue, meaning 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.960 he always did his homework. He would always read his 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:23.640 ten letters um. The correspondent staff would choose ten letters 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.080 that spoke to the number of letters he was getting. 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.720 Some of them were not complimentary, and but every day 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.520 he would read those ten letters at night too. So 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:38.520 it's very discipline in his work as well as exercise diet. 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.320 He did smoke a few SIGs every now and then. 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.920 Didney Pete he quit smoking in I forget exactly what 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.439 it was. It was either oh nine or early ten, 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.439 and has never had a cigarettes since. Really, he didn't 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:55.079 sneak cigarettes every now and then? Did he choot nick come? Yes, 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:04.160 he popped nickerette the rest of his administration. Yes, that's okay. 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.040 Tell me about sort of like despite the fact that 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:10.640 President of mom was was super cool and disciplined and 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:15.440 even tempered, did you see him get really mad or 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.520 really upset at all? He would get set, you know. 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.480 X A. Rod used to talk about um. His analogy was, 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.920 we've got the best running back of all time, and 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.760 what we continue to do is give him the ball 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:35.920 on every play, meaning that he was sometimes overscheduled, and 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:42.160 sometimes he would not like that and get upset when um, 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:46.200 he was overscheduled, So he'd get ticked. And did he 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:50.199 have flashes of temper and situations like that, you know occasionally, 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.000 but it was sort of like one of those things 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.719 where you know he could, uh he got mad at me? 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.480 A couple of times he did, yeah, yeah, and I 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.000 was more fied. Uh and like the next day, it 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.160 was as if nothing had happened. Why did you get 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.960 mad at you? P? It was usually a competitive situation. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.160 What do you mean, like we're playing cards on Air 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:14.319 Force one, So he'd get mad at you because you'd 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.000 beat him in cards, not not maybe the way I 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.079 you know, occasionally played a hand or something like that. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.040 And what about getting upset? Did you ever see President 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:30.160 Obama cry? Well, he cried at Newtown. He cried recalling 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:34.200 the events at Newtown publicly a couple of times. Did 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.880 you ever see him cry privately? I mean a Newtown 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:43.199 I mean I think, uh, and and greeting the families 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.840 backstage before that event. It was horrific, you know, that 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.640 was a really difficult time. I think one of the 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:58.160 most extraordinary things I witnessed President Obama during his presidency 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:10.440 was that speech in Charleston and he um at some 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:16.720 point decided to break into amazing grace. What a moment 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.040 that was, and that was completely extemporaneous. We talked to 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.280 Valerie Jarrett about that. That's an interesting day because that 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:29.920 was such a wrening day emotionally when we went down 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.760 to Charleston for Reverend Pickney I believe his name was 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:38.720 his funeral Um. That's why we had gone to Charleston. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:44.960 This was the church shooting and if you remember, earlier 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:50.840 that day the Supreme Court upheld same sex marriage, and 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.920 so we came back that night to d C. It 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:58.839 was a Friday night, and someone on staff had come 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.160 up with the idea to light the White House and 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.800 rainbow colors at night. So we went from this just 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:12.280 awful emotional day in Charleston and came back to the 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.080 White House just before dark, and then they started to 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.200 light up the White House and it was just an 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:25.000 extraordinary day of emotions, good and bad. It was like 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:31.920 one of those days that you served never forget. We're 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.239 gonna take a quick break, but don't go away. Everybody 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:39.640 keep those earbuds firmly implanted, because we'll be back soon 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:50.559 with more from Peze Susa. And now back to our 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:56.080 conversation with Pete Susa. Pete, We're gonna return to your 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.920 experiences with President Obama because there's a lot more we 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.320 want to talk about. But first let's go back and 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.960 talk about you. You grew up in Massachusetts. You trained 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.640 to be a journalist. Why a photographer rather than a reporter. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.040 I went to Boston University and I actually wanted to 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.920 become a sports writer, so I went to their communications school. 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.359 Um I I thought I would be interested in photography. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.200 I wasn't sure, so I took a photo class photo 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.280 one my junior year. I had never really taken pictures before, 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:34.000 and I think that the first time that I was 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:38.640 in the dark room, UM, developing a print and in 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.320 the tray and there's a developer and you're kind of 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.560 like shaking the tray. You have these red safe lights on, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.840 so you see this image start to appear, and it 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.320 was to me, it was like magic. And I think 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.120 like that day, I was like, Okay, this is what 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:57.240 I want to do. You worked at the Chicago Tribune 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.320 and National Geographic and and then you became aim an 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.080 official photographer for President Reagan. How did you get that job? 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:08.160 I went to grad school at Kansas State University, went 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.920 to work for a couple of newspapers in Kansas, and 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.640 at one point I had interviewed for a job at 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.920 the Kansas City Star, and there was a director of 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:22.120 photography by the name of Carol Greenawalt who had interviewed me. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.680 But she didn't she didn't hire me. She she gave 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:31.200 the job to somebody with more experience. Um, and unbeknownst 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:33.600 to me, she kind of continued to follow my career. 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:38.000 She then became the White House photo editor, working under 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.920 Michael Evans, who was Reagan's chief photographer. And so at 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.520 some point in nineteen three they had an opening for 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.440 someone to work under Michael, and so Carol suggested me, 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.160 and that's how I That's how I got to the 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.720 White House the first time around. Where do you stand 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.160 politically and was it ever hard peat for you to 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.920 work for someone with whom you disagreed politically or did 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.600 you just separate yourself from that. I separated myself from 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:09.000 it to a certain extent. There were certainly things that Um, 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.520 President Reagan. You know, some of his policies I didn't 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.560 I didn't agree with, but at the same time, I 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.560 respected him as a person and I could see that 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.280 he was trying to do what he thought was right. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.920 Did you ever say, hey, Mr President, I like the 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.880 word with you. I'd like to I'd like to discuss 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.920 you breaking up the air traffic controllers union and what 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.960 impact that might have on the working man. Katie, I'm 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:41.440 smarter than that. Give me some credit. How would you 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.600 compare President Reagan to President Obama? I know you said 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:49.280 they both have similar temperaments or had similar temperaments when 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.640 they were in the White House, any other ways of comparison. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.080 That was almost like another lifetime ago for me, and 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.800 I've had some people ask me that question. Still having 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:08.440 a difficult time, um, making those comparisons because I'm so 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.680 in the moment with President Obama. I mean, I spent 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.840 eight years with him, the last eight years and then 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.840 the last year working on this book, so it's hard 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.520 to go back to that time. What did you do 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.920 between President Reagan and President Obama? So that's when I 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.080 freelanced for nine years for National Geographic but also with 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.600 other magazines, some commercial work, and then went to work 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.280 for the Chicago Tribune for nine years and their DC 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:42.000 bureau as their national photographer Pete. After nine eleven, you 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.760 were among the first journalists to cover the fall of 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:50.239 Kabbal Afghanistan, having crossed I read the Hindu Kush Mountains 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:54.680 on horseback in three ft of snow to get your pictures. 0:16:55.240 --> 0:17:00.120 What what was that experience like? That was I'm I'm 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.520 glad I'm still sitting here right now. That was those 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.920 Those those probably one of the more difficult things I've 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.800 done physically. You know, the Hindu Kush Mountains two feet snow, 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.840 and as majestic as it was, it was as soon 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.080 as the sun went down it got so cold and 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:19.800 we thought we were going to freeze to death because 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.160 we really weren't dressed for a weather like that. And 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:27.679 we came across this Northern Alliance hut. So these are 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:32.640 the guys that were fighting the Taliban within inside Afghanistan, 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.159 and they had this little hut that we came across 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.160 and with a little wood burning stove, and we spent 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:41.879 the night in there, and I think we would have 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.520 frozen to death if we had not come across this, uh, 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.800 this little hut, and I remember like there's like, I 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.119 don't know, eighteen or twenty of us, and there's probably 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.480 not an inch of space, um that was not covered 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.600 by a body. So then the next morning we were 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:02.800 able to get out of the hinder kush and make 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:07.240 our way closer to Cobble, and we actually thought we 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.400 might have to be there the entire winner, because everybody 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.679 was saying the fighting season as they called it, was 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.760 coming to a close and low and behold in the 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.720 In the next four days is when the Northern Alliance, 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:27.640 backed by American fighter jets B fifty two bombs, made 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.480 their final push and into Cobble, and Cobble fell. So 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.480 it was our timing was quite fortunate. Were you ever 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.439 in it? A lot of danger? Grave danger um? I 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.720 mean compared to some foreign car respondence, maybe not, But 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:49.360 I do remember walking with the Northern Alliance down this 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:56.040 one dirt road and hearing sniper bullets whizzing by. And 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.760 I couldn't tell if they were five ft above my 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.440 head at our fifty ft above. But when you hear 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:08.000 a bullet whistling by, that's a little unnerving. And we 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:12.480 had a couple we got close to some rocket propelled 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.280 grenades that were coming in UH, and I learned a 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:21.320 valuable lesson never stand by the tank. I mean, I 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.320 was near the Northern Alliance tank and that's what the 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.240 Taliban was trying to take out. So I kind of 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:34.120 learned very quickly stay away from tanks. Good, good practical advice. 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:38.080 Fir Us All. So, so you were in Washington, as 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.520 you mentioned, as a photographer for the Chicago Tribune, and 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.680 the new senator from Illinois was this guy named Barack Obama. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:46.960 Why do you think you two hit it off the 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.679 way that you did because your relationship, I think quickly 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.800 went beyond just you know, a photographer and a new 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.440 member of Congress. He kind of was forced to get 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:02.280 along with me in the sense that I had. So. 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:06.200 Jeff Zeleny, who now works for CNN but was then 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.119 a correspondent in the Washington Bureau it had come up 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.360 with this idea of let's let's do sort of like 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:17.760 a documentary print print wise on his first year in 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:23.280 the Senate, and the Obama communication staff was really trying 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:27.119 to low profile him that first year in the Senate 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.080 because there had been a lot of hype after his 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.199 two thousand four speech, and so they're really trying to 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.399 like stay under the radar. But because we were the 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:41.480 local paper, his hometown paper, they acceded to given us access, 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.240 especially me, where they were letting me go behind the 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:51.200 scenes covers meetings. Jeff and I actually did a congressional 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:57.800 delegation trip with Obama and Luger, a senator Luger to Russia, Ukraine, 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.920 Azerbaijan to look at this man told nuclear weapons. And 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.399 it was very unusual for them to take journalists along 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.000 on a congressional delegation plane like that, So just by 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.960 close proximity and you know, small talk here and there. 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.840 And I think he appreciated the way I worked, which 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:20.040 I call low footprint. He got to know me a 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.480 little bit. I think he liked my pictures, and I 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:28.840 think he liked my sometimes sarcastic sense of humor. When 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:30.800 you were asked to go back and be the White 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:34.920 House photographer, was there a part of you, Pete that said, yuck, 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.520 I don't want to be stuck working at the White 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:43.800 House seven when I could be covering more interesting things 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:50.679 outside the building. I recognized the historic aspect of his presidency, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.639 and one of the things that I learned in my 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.399 coverage of him as senator was he was a great 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:01.960 photographic subject in that the presence of the camera didn't 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.960 affect what he did. He wasn't self conscious. He wasn't 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.440 self conscious at all, which was extremely important and it's 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.760 very rare, especially in a politician. So was President Reagan 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:16.200 self conscious? He was an actor. He was an actor, 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:20.239 you know, probably a little more so. Yeah, did he 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.240 pose for the camera a little bit because that is 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:27.040 what he did for a living at Yeah, I mean, 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:30.240 if you go back to the eighties, this is that 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.560 this is at a time when magazines kind of ruled 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:38.240 the photographic world, right, and they would schedule like fifteen 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:42.320 minute photo shoots with President Reagan. You know, one week 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:44.879 it was for Time, two weeks later was for Newsweek, 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:49.359 And so he was kind of forced to um to 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:53.879 do those kinds of shoots and contrast it with President Obama. 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:58.399 Although he had no problem with allowing me tagging along 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.480 with him, or if there was a magazine photographer that 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:03.240 was going to spend the day with him and they 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:07.320 would just shadow me um to get pictures. He had 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.400 no problem with that, But when it came to posing 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:14.840 for photos. Magazine covers things like that President Obama just 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:18.000 didn't that was not his thing. He didn't like doing 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:20.880 that at all, So you probably got a lot more natural, 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:24.040 spontaneous jo with him as a result. There were a 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:27.119 lot of personalities in that White House when you covered it, 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.680 Pete and I wanted to ask about Joe Biden and 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:35.320 Hillary Clinton. What was the president's relationship like with each 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:38.720 of them as you viewed their interactions in real time? 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:43.520 He was a bro with Joe Biden romance. They had 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:47.600 a bromance. I mean I think that, um, what an 0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:51.680 excellent choice he was for vice president. I don't think 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:55.240 they knew each other that well coming in, but over 0:23:55.320 --> 0:24:00.000 time they formed this unique bond. It was a brother show. 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:04.480 And you know, Joe Biden was the older brother, and 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:09.119 I think President Obama respected his opinion on every issue. 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:11.800 I don't think he always agreed with him, but certainly 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:15.160 respected and wanted to hear what Joe thought all the time. 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:19.520 What about Hillary? With Hillary, history is going to show 0:24:19.720 --> 0:24:24.280 that what a courageous decision it was for him to 0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.840 hire her as his secretary of State. I mean, they 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:34.480 had this brutal campaign, right and as she's written, and 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:37.879 as he's written, it was I think at first, I 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:39.720 guess she didn't want to do it, she didn't think 0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:43.719 this would be possible. But what a good decision that was. 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:47.800 I would say it was very magnanimous. Yes, yeah, And 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.840 the President had just read I think Doris Karns Goodwin's 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:53.680 book Team of Rivals and was partly inspired by that. 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:56.840 Both Biden and Clinton had run against Obama, of course, 0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:00.600 and oh eight, um, maybe the most iconic you took. 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:05.960 Pete featured Obama, Clinton, Biden and others, And it was 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:09.960 taken at four oh six pm on May one, in 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:15.160 the situation room when the National security team was tracking 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:20.760 the operation against Ossaba bin Laden. What was it like 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:25.000 to be in that room at that moment? Well, i'll 0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:31.600 take you back to um to that day and everyone 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:35.879 jamming into that little conference room which is across the 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:40.280 hall from the big conference room within the situation room, 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:42.840 where the communications link had been set up in this 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.359 this little room, and the President decided he wanted to 0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:52.480 monitor this, and they didn't think they could um switch 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:56.080 the link to the big conference room without losing the signals. 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:59.280 So that's why everybody piled in. And if you look 0:25:59.280 --> 0:26:02.560 at that picture, or you see the president is not 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:05.760 seated at the head of the table because there was 0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:10.600 a brigadier general who was on a laptop communicating with 0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:15.679 Admiral mccraven, and as he stood up to give his 0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:18.080 seat to the president, the President just said no, no, no, 0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:21.040 you stay there, and he pulled up a chair right 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:24.720 next to him, this folding black chair, I think, which 0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:29.159 is now in the National Archives. So everybody was focused 0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:33.359