1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hi, Brian. Hi, Katie. So if a picture is worth 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: a thousand words, what do you think one point nine 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: million pictures are worth? Brian? I was never very good 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: at math, Katie, A lot a lot of words. I 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: find that hard to believe, because you're good at everything. 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Well enough. That's how many pictures today's guest took in 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: his eight years as the chief official White House photographer 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: for President Barack Obama. That is right, Katie. Pete Susa 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: is responsible for some of the most amazing and iconic 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: photos from President Obama's time in the White House, Like 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 1: one of my favorites, the one from the Oval office 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: of President Obama bending over so a little African American 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: boy could touch his hair to see if it's like 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: his own, or or how about that picture which we 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: discuss from the Situation room when the National Security team 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: watched the raid that killed us on a bit laden 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: and never forget those intense expressions on everyone's face for 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: the fact that Hillary Clinton was the only woman seated 19 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: in a room full of men. But I digress. Anyway, 20 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: we talked with Pete Susa about his experience working for 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: President Reagan. He was in that White House too, about 22 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: how he first got to know Barack Obama when he 23 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: was a junior senator from Illinois, and about his continuing 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: relationship with the president, which has lasted to this day. 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: And if you want to see what we're talking about 26 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: instead of just listening to us talk about photographs. I 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 1: am wondering about this medium to talk to a photographer, 28 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: but hopefully we're painting some pictures for you and our descriptions. 29 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: Pete is out this week with a book of photographs 30 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: called Obama An Intimate Portrait. I'm looking at Pete's beautiful book, 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: which has some of the beautiful photos that you took 32 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: during your eight years of covering President Obama. Uh, you 33 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: must have gotten to know him very very well, Pete, 34 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: And I'm sure you could write an excellent tell all, 35 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 1: but you're not going to tell us about what you 36 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: observed and learned from being around Barack Obama all that 37 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: time in a whole array of situations. Oh, where to begin, Katie. Um. 38 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: I met him on his first day in the Senate, 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: so in January, I think it's January four of five, 40 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: and still know him today, just saw him last week, 41 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: and the character of the guy has not changed one bit. 42 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: Even though he had this amazing job for eight years, 43 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: grueling so many experiences, the core of him is still 44 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: the same. How would you describe that core decent? He's 45 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: a decent man, trying truly every day. I think he 46 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: went to work and he was thinking about what's the 47 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: best thing for the country in any decision, some of 48 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: which were not politically popular. He also thought about that 49 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: we live in this age of social media and everything's 50 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: today and react right away, and he was not afraid 51 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: to think the long term. Right, What's what's the right 52 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: thing to do in the long term, Pete, What would 53 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: you say are President Obama's biggest strengths and weaknesses? And 54 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: and along those lines, what do you think the public 55 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: doesn't get still about President Obama? The I started arguing 56 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: with a not arguing. I started responding to a question 57 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: the other day from a I won't mention person's name, 58 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: but they were like, tell me about the two Barack Obamas. 59 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: And I'm like, there's not two Barack Obamas. What do 60 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: you talk about? And I think the point being that 61 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: he said that President Obama was aloof and he was 62 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: not aloof. People tend to try to caricaturize our presidents 63 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: based on incomplete information, and I think that's what's happened 64 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: in this case. He was he was a guy who 65 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: had a core group of friends, He enjoyed spending time 66 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: with his family, and he he didn't like the Washington 67 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, party circuit, and so I think a lot 68 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: of people thought, because he didn't socialize the way you're 69 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: supposed to socialize in Washington, that people came up with 70 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: this idea that he was aloof. So it's just like, 71 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: let's knock that down right now. Having said that he 72 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: was a cool customer, I mean, let's face it, I 73 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: think he was very h I would say he had 74 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: a cool temperament, wouldn't you say? No, No, absolutely, very 75 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: even tempered. You know, it's interesting sing the Some people 76 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: have asked me to compare him with President Reagan, who 77 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: I also spent some time as a White House photographer 78 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: for President Reagan. That's sort of like the one characteristic 79 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: that they had that was similar, where Reagan two was 80 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: very even, even tempered. But President Obama maybe even more so. 81 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: I think that had to do with his upbringing and 82 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 1: being from Hawaii. Um, your listeners know that he actually 83 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: wasn't born in Kenya, right, hopefully. Okay, I don't know, 84 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: you know, because we have a lot of faith in 85 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: our listeners, so I believe they do. But Pete, you 86 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: still want to answer the question, what what were his 87 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: biggest weaknesses and biggest strengths? Weaknesses at all? I mean weaknesses. 88 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: It's like it's hard, It's it's hard to say. Okay, 89 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: he wasn't that good of a dancer. How's that he 90 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: thought he was? But he really wasn't. You know. He's 91 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: a good singer though, I gotta say he carried a 92 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: tune pretty well. He was so good when he sang 93 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: al Green. What other songs did he used to sing? Um? 94 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: Lean on Me? You know, that was a big one. 95 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: I think little Bill Withers. Yeah, what else? Um? You know, 96 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: earth Wind and Fire really September wonder you know? Yeah? 97 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: And what do you think the public still doesn't get 98 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: about Barack Obama? Oh? I think they. I think they 99 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: get Barack Obama. I really do. I think they get him. 100 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: He was two. I'll tell you two things about him 101 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: that maybe well, people may know about him, but they 102 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: don't know this much about him. One very disciplined guy. 103 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a guy who just in terms 104 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: of like exercise and diet, more discipline than any other 105 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: person I've ever met, didn't He used to eat like 106 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: six almonds on his desk. Yeah, that was just somebody 107 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: I think told that to a reporter almost as a joke. 108 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: They were trying to make the point that he didn't 109 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: eat like you know, so they this number of almonds 110 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: every day. I don't know that that was true. Can 111 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: we like curse on this? Yeah? Okay, that was bullshit, 112 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm kidding. Okay, I think he was. 113 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: I think he was. Probably people were probably goofing on 114 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: him for being so disciplined, right, And that is one 115 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: of his key characteristics, wasn't it well? But it carried 116 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: over to his work. And so every night, uh, sometime 117 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: after dinner, between like seven thirty and nine thirty, depending 118 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: how organized the staff was, he would get his briefing 119 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: book for the next day. It was a stick binder 120 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: memos for every meeting that he was going to have 121 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: background you know, a schedule list of people that were 122 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: coming to any event and their background memos for national 123 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: security meetings, things like that. And he was disciplined so 124 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: much that I can account maybe one or two or 125 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: three times in eight years where he'd be in a 126 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: meeting and he wouldn't say I read the memos. So 127 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: let's just get to the crux of the issue, meaning 128 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: he always did his homework. He would always read his 129 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: ten letters um. The correspondent staff would choose ten letters 130 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: that spoke to the number of letters he was getting. 131 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: Some of them were not complimentary, and but every day 132 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: he would read those ten letters at night too. So 133 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: it's very discipline in his work as well as exercise diet. 134 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: He did smoke a few SIGs every now and then. 135 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: Didney Pete he quit smoking in I forget exactly what 136 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: it was. It was either oh nine or early ten, 137 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: and has never had a cigarettes since. Really, he didn't 138 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 1: sneak cigarettes every now and then? Did he choot nick come? Yes, 139 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: he popped nickerette the rest of his administration. Yes, that's okay. 140 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: Tell me about sort of like despite the fact that 141 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: President of mom was was super cool and disciplined and 142 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: even tempered, did you see him get really mad or 143 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: really upset at all? He would get set, you know. 144 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: X A. Rod used to talk about um. His analogy was, 145 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: we've got the best running back of all time, and 146 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: what we continue to do is give him the ball 147 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: on every play, meaning that he was sometimes overscheduled, and 148 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: sometimes he would not like that and get upset when um, 149 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: he was overscheduled, So he'd get ticked. And did he 150 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: have flashes of temper and situations like that, you know occasionally, 151 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: but it was sort of like one of those things 152 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: where you know he could, uh he got mad at me? 153 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: A couple of times he did, yeah, yeah, and I 154 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: was more fied. Uh and like the next day, it 155 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: was as if nothing had happened. Why did you get 156 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: mad at you? P? It was usually a competitive situation. 157 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: What do you mean, like we're playing cards on Air 158 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: Force one, So he'd get mad at you because you'd 159 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: beat him in cards, not not maybe the way I 160 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: you know, occasionally played a hand or something like that. 161 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: And what about getting upset? Did you ever see President 162 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: Obama cry? Well, he cried at Newtown. He cried recalling 163 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: the events at Newtown publicly a couple of times. Did 164 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: you ever see him cry privately? I mean a Newtown 165 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 1: I mean I think, uh, and and greeting the families 166 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: backstage before that event. It was horrific, you know, that 167 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: was a really difficult time. I think one of the 168 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: most extraordinary things I witnessed President Obama during his presidency 169 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: was that speech in Charleston and he um at some 170 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: point decided to break into amazing grace. What a moment 171 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: that was, and that was completely extemporaneous. We talked to 172 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: Valerie Jarrett about that. That's an interesting day because that 173 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: was such a wrening day emotionally when we went down 174 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: to Charleston for Reverend Pickney I believe his name was 175 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: his funeral Um. That's why we had gone to Charleston. 176 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: This was the church shooting and if you remember, earlier 177 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: that day the Supreme Court upheld same sex marriage, and 178 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: so we came back that night to d C. It 179 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: was a Friday night, and someone on staff had come 180 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: up with the idea to light the White House and 181 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: rainbow colors at night. So we went from this just 182 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: awful emotional day in Charleston and came back to the 183 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: White House just before dark, and then they started to 184 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: light up the White House and it was just an 185 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: extraordinary day of emotions, good and bad. It was like 186 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: one of those days that you served never forget. We're 187 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,239 Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break, but don't go away. Everybody 188 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: keep those earbuds firmly implanted, because we'll be back soon 189 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: with more from Peze Susa. And now back to our 190 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: conversation with Pete Susa. Pete, We're gonna return to your 191 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: experiences with President Obama because there's a lot more we 192 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: want to talk about. But first let's go back and 193 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: talk about you. You grew up in Massachusetts. You trained 194 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: to be a journalist. Why a photographer rather than a reporter. 195 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: I went to Boston University and I actually wanted to 196 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: become a sports writer, so I went to their communications school. 197 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,359 Speaker 1: Um I I thought I would be interested in photography. 198 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure, so I took a photo class photo 199 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: one my junior year. I had never really taken pictures before, 200 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: and I think that the first time that I was 201 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: in the dark room, UM, developing a print and in 202 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: the tray and there's a developer and you're kind of 203 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: like shaking the tray. You have these red safe lights on, 204 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: so you see this image start to appear, and it 205 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: was to me, it was like magic. And I think 206 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: like that day, I was like, Okay, this is what 207 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: I want to do. You worked at the Chicago Tribune 208 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: and National Geographic and and then you became aim an 209 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: official photographer for President Reagan. How did you get that job? 210 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: I went to grad school at Kansas State University, went 211 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: to work for a couple of newspapers in Kansas, and 212 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: at one point I had interviewed for a job at 213 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: the Kansas City Star, and there was a director of 214 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: photography by the name of Carol Greenawalt who had interviewed me. 215 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: But she didn't she didn't hire me. She she gave 216 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: the job to somebody with more experience. Um, and unbeknownst 217 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: to me, she kind of continued to follow my career. 218 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: She then became the White House photo editor, working under 219 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: Michael Evans, who was Reagan's chief photographer. And so at 220 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: some point in nineteen three they had an opening for 221 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: someone to work under Michael, and so Carol suggested me, 222 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: and that's how I That's how I got to the 223 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: White House the first time around. Where do you stand 224 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: politically and was it ever hard peat for you to 225 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: work for someone with whom you disagreed politically or did 226 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: you just separate yourself from that. I separated myself from 227 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: it to a certain extent. There were certainly things that Um, 228 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: President Reagan. You know, some of his policies I didn't 229 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: I didn't agree with, but at the same time, I 230 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: respected him as a person and I could see that 231 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: he was trying to do what he thought was right. 232 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: Did you ever say, hey, Mr President, I like the 233 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: word with you. I'd like to I'd like to discuss 234 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: you breaking up the air traffic controllers union and what 235 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: impact that might have on the working man. Katie, I'm 236 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: smarter than that. Give me some credit. How would you 237 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: compare President Reagan to President Obama? I know you said 238 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: they both have similar temperaments or had similar temperaments when 239 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: they were in the White House, any other ways of comparison. 240 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: That was almost like another lifetime ago for me, and 241 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: I've had some people ask me that question. Still having 242 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: a difficult time, um, making those comparisons because I'm so 243 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: in the moment with President Obama. I mean, I spent 244 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: eight years with him, the last eight years and then 245 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: the last year working on this book, so it's hard 246 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: to go back to that time. What did you do 247 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: between President Reagan and President Obama? So that's when I 248 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: freelanced for nine years for National Geographic but also with 249 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: other magazines, some commercial work, and then went to work 250 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: for the Chicago Tribune for nine years and their DC 251 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: bureau as their national photographer Pete. After nine eleven, you 252 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: were among the first journalists to cover the fall of 253 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,239 Speaker 1: Kabbal Afghanistan, having crossed I read the Hindu Kush Mountains 254 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: on horseback in three ft of snow to get your pictures. 255 00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: What what was that experience like? That was I'm I'm 256 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: glad I'm still sitting here right now. That was those 257 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: Those those probably one of the more difficult things I've 258 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: done physically. You know, the Hindu Kush Mountains two feet snow, 259 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: and as majestic as it was, it was as soon 260 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: as the sun went down it got so cold and 261 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: we thought we were going to freeze to death because 262 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: we really weren't dressed for a weather like that. And 263 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: we came across this Northern Alliance hut. So these are 264 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: the guys that were fighting the Taliban within inside Afghanistan, 265 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: and they had this little hut that we came across 266 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: and with a little wood burning stove, and we spent 267 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: the night in there, and I think we would have 268 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: frozen to death if we had not come across this, uh, 269 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: this little hut, and I remember like there's like, I 270 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: don't know, eighteen or twenty of us, and there's probably 271 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: not an inch of space, um that was not covered 272 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: by a body. So then the next morning we were 273 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: able to get out of the hinder kush and make 274 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: our way closer to Cobble, and we actually thought we 275 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: might have to be there the entire winner, because everybody 276 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: was saying the fighting season as they called it, was 277 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: coming to a close and low and behold in the 278 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: In the next four days is when the Northern Alliance, 279 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: backed by American fighter jets B fifty two bombs, made 280 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: their final push and into Cobble, and Cobble fell. So 281 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: it was our timing was quite fortunate. Were you ever 282 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: in it? A lot of danger? Grave danger um? I 283 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: mean compared to some foreign car respondence, maybe not, But 284 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: I do remember walking with the Northern Alliance down this 285 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: one dirt road and hearing sniper bullets whizzing by. And 286 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell if they were five ft above my 287 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: head at our fifty ft above. But when you hear 288 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: a bullet whistling by, that's a little unnerving. And we 289 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: had a couple we got close to some rocket propelled 290 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: grenades that were coming in UH, and I learned a 291 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: valuable lesson never stand by the tank. I mean, I 292 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: was near the Northern Alliance tank and that's what the 293 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: Taliban was trying to take out. So I kind of 294 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: learned very quickly stay away from tanks. Good, good practical advice. 295 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: Fir Us All. So, so you were in Washington, as 296 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned, as a photographer for the Chicago Tribune, and 297 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: the new senator from Illinois was this guy named Barack Obama. 298 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: Why do you think you two hit it off the 299 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: way that you did because your relationship, I think quickly 300 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: went beyond just you know, a photographer and a new 301 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: member of Congress. He kind of was forced to get 302 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: along with me in the sense that I had. So. 303 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: Jeff Zeleny, who now works for CNN but was then 304 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: a correspondent in the Washington Bureau it had come up 305 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: with this idea of let's let's do sort of like 306 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: a documentary print print wise on his first year in 307 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: the Senate, and the Obama communication staff was really trying 308 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: to low profile him that first year in the Senate 309 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: because there had been a lot of hype after his 310 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: two thousand four speech, and so they're really trying to 311 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: like stay under the radar. But because we were the 312 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: local paper, his hometown paper, they acceded to given us access, 313 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: especially me, where they were letting me go behind the 314 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: scenes covers meetings. Jeff and I actually did a congressional 315 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: delegation trip with Obama and Luger, a senator Luger to Russia, Ukraine, 316 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: Azerbaijan to look at this man told nuclear weapons. And 317 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: it was very unusual for them to take journalists along 318 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: on a congressional delegation plane like that, So just by 319 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: close proximity and you know, small talk here and there. 320 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: And I think he appreciated the way I worked, which 321 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: I call low footprint. He got to know me a 322 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: little bit. I think he liked my pictures, and I 323 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: think he liked my sometimes sarcastic sense of humor. When 324 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: you were asked to go back and be the White 325 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: House photographer, was there a part of you, Pete that said, yuck, 326 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to be stuck working at the White 327 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: House seven when I could be covering more interesting things 328 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: outside the building. I recognized the historic aspect of his presidency, 329 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: and one of the things that I learned in my 330 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: coverage of him as senator was he was a great 331 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: photographic subject in that the presence of the camera didn't 332 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: affect what he did. He wasn't self conscious. He wasn't 333 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: self conscious at all, which was extremely important and it's 334 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: very rare, especially in a politician. So was President Reagan 335 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: self conscious? He was an actor. He was an actor, 336 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,239 Speaker 1: you know, probably a little more so. Yeah, did he 337 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: pose for the camera a little bit because that is 338 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: what he did for a living at Yeah, I mean, 339 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: if you go back to the eighties, this is that 340 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: this is at a time when magazines kind of ruled 341 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: the photographic world, right, and they would schedule like fifteen 342 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: minute photo shoots with President Reagan. You know, one week 343 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: it was for Time, two weeks later was for Newsweek, 344 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: And so he was kind of forced to um to 345 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: do those kinds of shoots and contrast it with President Obama. 346 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: Although he had no problem with allowing me tagging along 347 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: with him, or if there was a magazine photographer that 348 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: was going to spend the day with him and they 349 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: would just shadow me um to get pictures. He had 350 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: no problem with that, But when it came to posing 351 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: for photos. Magazine covers things like that President Obama just 352 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: didn't that was not his thing. He didn't like doing 353 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 1: that at all, So you probably got a lot more natural, 354 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: spontaneous jo with him as a result. There were a 355 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: lot of personalities in that White House when you covered it, 356 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: Pete and I wanted to ask about Joe Biden and 357 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. What was the president's relationship like with each 358 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: of them as you viewed their interactions in real time? 359 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: He was a bro with Joe Biden romance. They had 360 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: a bromance. I mean I think that, um, what an 361 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: excellent choice he was for vice president. I don't think 362 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: they knew each other that well coming in, but over 363 00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: time they formed this unique bond. It was a brother show. 364 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: And you know, Joe Biden was the older brother, and 365 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: I think President Obama respected his opinion on every issue. 366 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: I don't think he always agreed with him, but certainly 367 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: respected and wanted to hear what Joe thought all the time. 368 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: What about Hillary? With Hillary, history is going to show 369 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: that what a courageous decision it was for him to 370 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: hire her as his secretary of State. I mean, they 371 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: had this brutal campaign, right and as she's written, and 372 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: as he's written, it was I think at first, I 373 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: guess she didn't want to do it, she didn't think 374 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: this would be possible. But what a good decision that was. 375 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: I would say it was very magnanimous. Yes, yeah, And 376 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: the President had just read I think Doris Karns Goodwin's 377 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: book Team of Rivals and was partly inspired by that. 378 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: Both Biden and Clinton had run against Obama, of course, 379 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: and oh eight, um, maybe the most iconic you took. 380 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: Pete featured Obama, Clinton, Biden and others, And it was 381 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: taken at four oh six pm on May one, in 382 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: the situation room when the National security team was tracking 383 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: the operation against Ossaba bin Laden. What was it like 384 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: to be in that room at that moment? Well, i'll 385 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: take you back to um to that day and everyone 386 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: jamming into that little conference room which is across the 387 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: hall from the big conference room within the situation room, 388 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: where the communications link had been set up in this 389 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: this little room, and the President decided he wanted to 390 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: monitor this, and they didn't think they could um switch 391 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: the link to the big conference room without losing the signals. 392 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: So that's why everybody piled in. And if you look 393 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: at that picture, or you see the president is not 394 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: seated at the head of the table because there was 395 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: a brigadier general who was on a laptop communicating with 396 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: Admiral mccraven, and as he stood up to give his 397 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: seat to the president, the President just said no, no, no, 398 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: you stay there, and he pulled up a chair right 399 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: next to him, this folding black chair, I think, which 400 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: is now in the National Archives. So everybody was focused 401 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: for forty minutes on what was taking place in Pakistan. 402 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: And if you look at all those faces and you 403 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: realize nobody's talking, they're just observing. You have the most 404 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: powerful people in the government in that room and they're 405 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: they're helpless. They're powerless to do anything about what's taken place. 406 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: They've made a decision already in the weeks and days before, 407 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: and now all they can do is hope that these 408 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: guys that are carrying out this mission are successful, because 409 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: this could have gone really bad. And as a matter 410 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: of fact, it started out really bad when one of 411 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: the helicopters crashed coming into the compound, so things could 412 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: have gone south, and I think that's what accounts for 413 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: all the tension and anxiety you see in every one 414 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: of those faces understandably, So why do you think they 415 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: released that photo fairly quickly after that day? So the 416 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: following day, this was on a Sunday night, I believe, 417 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: when the President made the announcement, And on Monday, I 418 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: came into the office Ben Rhodes, who's a deputy and 419 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: assal security advisor, his offices across the hall from me. 420 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: So when he came in, just popped into his office 421 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 1: and I was like, Ben, should we think about editing 422 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: some of these photos from yesterday? And He's like, yeah, 423 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 1: let's do it. So I went through. I shot a 424 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: thousand pictures that day, thousand two to be exact, and 425 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: went back through all the pictures and the one that 426 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: people refer to as the situation room photo was one 427 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: of them. But there were like several meetings during the day. 428 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: I've got pictures of him calling President Bush, President Clinton. 429 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: So I've got to serve the whole day and we 430 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: ended up choosing I think like nine photos including that one, 431 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: to release two to the world. You were in so 432 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: many sensitive situations, so many times, you know, to quote 433 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: Hamilton's in the room where it happened. Um, how did 434 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: the president and his team learn to trust you so 435 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: completely that no matter what they said or did, that 436 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: you would keep it in confidence. Did you have to 437 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: sign an n D A. I didn't sign an NDA, 438 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: but I think it was it was understood I was 439 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: never going to leak anything. Plus, you know, most of 440 00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: the actual real top secret stuff is in paper, right, 441 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: is in memos. Yes, they talk about it during meetings, 442 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: but I wasn't privy to paperwork. And when you're a 443 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: photographer in those situations, you're worrying about clicking the shutter 444 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: at just the right moment, your composition, framing, trying to 445 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: capture the mood and emotion. You're paying attention to the 446 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: general conversation, so you're you can accurately capture that mood 447 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: and emotion. But I couldn't relay any like well, but 448 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: I couldn't. I mean I was not there to take notes. 449 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: What kind of camera did you use? Pete? So you're 450 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: like one of those, aren't you? Just like want to 451 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: know the I am one of those? Because so I'll 452 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: first say this, like the camera you use doesn't matter. 453 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: It's like the person behind the camera, right, Okay, but 454 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: the photographers and are listening audience, Yes, So I used 455 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: the Canon five D Mark two and then upgraded to 456 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: the three before I left. And the reason I chose 457 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: that camera coming into the White House was it was 458 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:20,959 Speaker 1: quieter than the Nikon. The Nikon was just too loud, 459 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: and I thought the most important aspect, because all the 460 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: cameras were good by then, the quieter camera was what 461 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: was really important to not disturb what was going on. 462 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: You don't want to have this loud clang going off 463 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: every five seconds or something. You could You sometimes used 464 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: your smartphone too, though, Pete, right, I did. I started 465 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: mostly during the second term. I would use an iPhone 466 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: occasionally too, usually like shoot little snippets away from the action. 467 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: I'm looking at your table here, and if this was 468 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,239 Speaker 1: at the White House, I'd be like zooming in on 469 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: some of these cool faces that people have drawn on 470 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: the table, right, things like that. So just sort of 471 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: more fun. Let's talk about Election Night two thousand sixteen, 472 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: something that we're actually marking the anniversary of what was 473 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: Election Night two thousand sixteen, Like for you, Pete oh Man, 474 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: so don't hold that it was um it was sort 475 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: of living in a surreal world. So I had I 476 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: had talked to the President earlier in the day, and 477 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: he had said, well, I'm going to call Hillary and 478 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: and Trump, uh, probably be pretty late eleven twelve o'clock. 479 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna go home 480 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: and have dinner with my wife and then I'll just 481 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: wait to hear, you know, see how it's going, and 482 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: then come back in and come up to the residents 483 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: just to you know, document that call um. And then 484 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: watched the results at home with my wife, and you know, 485 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: disbelief because I had believed everything that I was reading 486 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: and hearing, you know, like the kind of things Katie 487 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: was telling me and other people that Hillary is gonna win. 488 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: And I could see that this this was gonna be 489 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: a long, a a long night and be it wasn't 490 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: gonna go so good for the Democrats. And I actually 491 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: went to bed when I got word that I can't 492 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: remember if the President sent a message to somebody who 493 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: then forwarded it to me, and it was basically I'm 494 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,959 Speaker 1: not going to call anybody tonight, and I just couldn't 495 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: watch TV any longer. So I went to bed, and 496 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: I remember waking up around six or six thirty in 497 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: the morning, and I had like a million text messages, 498 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: and so I didn't kind of really need to look 499 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: at the A P story and find out what had happened. 500 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: And in fact, Pete, we now know that the night 501 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: before the election, I don't know, maybe you witnessed this, 502 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: the President said to Hillary after that rally at which 503 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: they both appeared in Philadelphia, you got this. I'm so 504 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: proud of you. So he clearly expected that she would win. 505 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: And we also know that on election night, I guess 506 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: you weren't there for that moment, the President called Hillary's 507 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: team to encourage her to concede because he wanted the 508 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: peaceful transfer to happen and as orderly and smooth away 509 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: as possible. I was not there. That must have been 510 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: like three o'clock in the morning or something. Fast forward 511 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: to President Trump came to visit President Obama, and shall 512 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: we say it was a bit awkward. You were there, 513 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: There were a lot of photographers there, in fact, because 514 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: it was a photo op. Uh, you watched this. What 515 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: were you feeling? What was he feeling? What was the 516 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: mood of the room. Was it as sort of uncomfortable 517 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: as it appeared. I think President Obama was very gracious. 518 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: I might add, didn't you think from the video. I mean, 519 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 1: I'll tell you this because he said this, Um, he 520 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: remembered very much how President Bush treated him during the transition, 521 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: and despite the fact that the election didn't go the 522 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: way he wanted. Um, the American people had spoken, and 523 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: his duty was to give President elect Trump the same 524 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: respect that President Bush gave him. One of the most 525 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: memorable photos, Pete of yours, of many memorable photos, was 526 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: the day after the election when it looked like members 527 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: of the White House staff were going to either throw 528 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: up or as if they were attending their mother's funeral. 529 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: So talk about that photo. So that this is the 530 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: day after the election. The President comes in to the 531 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: office from the residents and he says to Ferreal, go 532 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: over Sherry his personally, why don't you get Josh down here. 533 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: That's the way he said it, because he wanted to 534 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: uh relay to Josh Um, Josh press secretary, how he 535 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: should describe the President's reaction during his press briefing. So 536 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: Ferreal called Josh just down the hall and gut word 537 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: that Josh was in with his team. And so the 538 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: President said, well, just tell Josh to bring his team down. 539 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,879 Speaker 1: And what neither one of them knew was wasn't just 540 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: Josh and his three deputy press secretaries. They were like 541 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: sixty people in Josh's office, researchers, speechwriters, national security people, 542 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: all the regional press people. And so when the Oval 543 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,280 Speaker 1: Office door opened and people started walking into the Oval 544 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: Office and it wasn't just four people, it was like 545 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: fifty people, the President had to kind of change what 546 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: he was going to say because it was no longer 547 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: about hey, Josh, because how I think you should say 548 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: what the president thinks of what happened last night? So 549 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: instead he kind of had to be the adult in 550 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 1: the room and consoler in chief be well, I wouldn't 551 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: say consolar chief, but be you know, the chief of 552 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: pep talk. But it's that picture is in my book, 553 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: and I think the faces that you see will articulate 554 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: how people felt beter than my words. Can I think 555 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,359 Speaker 1: you're right, because um, yes, everyone looks pretty darned devastated. 556 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: Now you've said you're not going to comment on President Trump. 557 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: But that said, you've become famous and amassed quite the 558 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: Instagram following posting old pictures from the Obama White House 559 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: at very opportune times. We should add, let's face it 560 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: really trolling President Trump. I mean that the picture in 561 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: many ways is so much more devastating than any written 562 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: criticism might be. So you've been, you know, a one man, 563 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, attack machine against President Trump by releasing these photos. 564 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: I know, I think that's probably a little hyperbolic. I 565 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: would say it's almost a little slyer than that. I 566 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: think there's a bit of a wink and a nod 567 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: when Pete posts photos which seemed to tell a very 568 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: different story than what maybe going on in the Trump administration. 569 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: Would you say that's a little safer than attack dog. Hi, 570 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 1: I stand on my characterization. The photos are meant to 571 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: convey that President Obama would not have handled whatever it 572 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: is this way, and in fact was dramatically different, and 573 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: it it cast a sort of a nostalgic glow on 574 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: the previous administration. I like hearing you guys talk about this. 575 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: How would you assess it? Pete? Uh? Well, One thing 576 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: is like when someone first wrote a story about this 577 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: about my Instagram feed, there was something about there was 578 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 1: a headline about, you know, former White House photographer throwing 579 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,399 Speaker 1: shade at the Trump administration, and I had to look 580 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: up what throwing shade meant because I didn't really I 581 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: didn't know what it meant. Um. It's purposeful that I 582 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: haven't really talked about this UM. Now that I have 583 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: a book out, I kind of enforced it to discuss it. UM. 584 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: But it kind of speaks for itself, and I think 585 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: I'm doing it in a way that actually is pretty respectful. 586 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: I don't think it's hateful. I think it's respectful. I 587 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: think it's playful, and I think it's subtle enough, especially 588 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: when you compare it to what some people, for instance, 589 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: say on Twitter. I think I'm a lot more respectful 590 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: than that. Some people air quotes you're talking about the president. 591 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: Of course I didn't say that. I mean, I don't 592 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: think it's hateful that said you know, you said it 593 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: was now he said it was kind of an attack. 594 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: You were kind of machine. I'm not attack machine. Come on, 595 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: when there are reports out that the president is attacking 596 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,320 Speaker 1: his attorney general or criticizing Jeff Sessions, and you immediately 597 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,359 Speaker 1: post a photo of President Obama in a very kind 598 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: of respectful pose with Eric Holder, I mean, I think 599 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: that's uh. You know, your your shining a spotlight on 600 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: that news and you're striking a contract. You've been a 601 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: bit of a fact checker as well. For instance, when 602 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: President Trump says that President Obama did not call gold 603 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: Star families, you basically prove him wrong photographically. Well, I 604 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: will say this, President Obama visited Walter Reid twenty four 605 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: times every three months, visited hundreds of wounded soldiers, spent 606 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: hours with them. We'd go to events around the country, 607 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: and he would so often meet privately with gold Star families, 608 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: families who had lost a son or daughter, husband killed 609 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 1: in action. It was constantly that he did those sorts 610 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: of things. And I was just posting public domain photos 611 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: that had been made public earlier, and um just you know, 612 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: putting them up there for people to see. Well, clearly 613 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: this mischaracterization. You bite your nails like I do a 614 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: little hangnail. I try this mischaracterization definitely stuck in your craw, 615 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: and other others continue to stick in your craw and 616 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: your I mean, listen, let's call us badas bade. I 617 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 1: think I've said enough already on this. I've made my point, 618 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: and I continue to make my point in a very 619 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: subtle way. And I will, you know, occasionally do that 620 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 1: as well. I wonder how it feels to watch the 621 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 1: Trump administration U systematically undo much of President Obama's legacy. 622 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 1: Because you were there, Pete during many of the signature accomplishments, 623 00:41:50,880 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: I can imagine, Uh, it's troubling for you. I, um, 624 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: the the arc of the moral universe is long, but 625 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: it bends to horns justice. I have confidence in uh, 626 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: the American people in our country that, um, even if 627 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,359 Speaker 1: sometimes things go the wrong way, that eventually they will 628 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: get right. You still have a relationship with President Obama. 629 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: You see each other, can you just kind of update 630 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: us and tell us how he and Mrs Obama are doing. 631 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,120 Speaker 1: I haven't seen him that much as I was at 632 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: the Obama Foundations summit last week, so I spent a 633 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: couple of days with him. Then, UM, I went to 634 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:54,560 Speaker 1: Texas with him for that benefit concert for hurricane victims. 635 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: That wasn't on assignment. I just called and see if 636 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,800 Speaker 1: you had an ext re set on his plane because 637 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: I thought that would be a historic time. And you know, 638 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 1: there's not gonna be many times where the five formers 639 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: are going to be together, and I thought it'd be. Um, 640 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,760 Speaker 1: it's something that I should photograph for the historical record, 641 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: so I went along with him on that. I think 642 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:24,799 Speaker 1: he's doing fine. Um, Michelle is doing fine, he said. 643 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,760 Speaker 1: Everybody's happy. Malie is at college, Sasha's in high school. 644 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: I think life is good. You got to know the 645 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 1: girls pretty well too, didn't you, and got to watch 646 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: them grow up, because that's a that's a lifetime for 647 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: a kid. It doesn't seem like a very long period 648 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: of time for us old folks. Well, Brian, you're not 649 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: really old, but Pete and I are. Um, but you 650 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: really got to see them grow up and develop into 651 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: you know, young women. There's a there's a picture in 652 00:43:54,640 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 1: my book. Um my book is chronological, so you see 653 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 1: you see the family come in throughout the book. And 654 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,800 Speaker 1: I think one of the last pictures of the girls 655 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: is at the dinner for Prime Minister Trudeau State Dinner 656 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,319 Speaker 1: of Canada, and they were the only time they were 657 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: invited as guests and they have these long gowns on 658 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh my gosh, they've grown up there 659 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: like sunrise and such. I sing at every podcast a 660 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,399 Speaker 1: little something, Pete, So thank you for giving me some 661 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,320 Speaker 1: a little suggestion there. In closing, Pete, what is President 662 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 1: Obama's favorite photo. He's he ever described that to you. 663 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: The one I just talked about is actually on his 664 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: bookshelf at his new office. He used to say he 665 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,359 Speaker 1: came across the picture that I have of Spider Man, 666 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: you know, the little kid who's that really cute. Yeah, 667 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 1: I remember he when he first saw that picture, he goes, oh, 668 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: that's like my favorite photo. And then I think within 669 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,760 Speaker 1: a week there was a really cool photo with Sasha 670 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: Maliyah and that was it. From then on, it was 671 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: always something that the girls were in were the ones 672 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: that he really treasured. And speaking of the girls, you 673 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:10,960 Speaker 1: told me as we were preparing for the podcast and 674 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: waiting for Brian who got stuck in traffic in Los Angeles, 675 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you told me what President Obama used to 676 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: tell his daughters, which I thought was really interesting and 677 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,600 Speaker 1: sweet and made me think maybe I should say that 678 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,560 Speaker 1: to my daughters. Well, I thought you were gonna do. 679 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: You're gonna use that with me today because the first 680 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,839 Speaker 1: part of it is be kind and be useful, and 681 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: that's not a bad advice for a parent to give 682 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: her child, um and it's not a bad thought to 683 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 1: having the back of your head going forward in life. 684 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 1: Be kind and be useful. Pete Susa, this was really fun. 685 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,680 Speaker 1: And what are you gonna do now? You you spent 686 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 1: the last year working on this book. UM, I'll probably 687 00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,920 Speaker 1: take some time off, but I want to do some 688 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: new photography. What that is I don't know, but UM, 689 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: I'm not done yet. I don't plan to do any 690 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: more political photography. UM. I think once you've been in 691 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,879 Speaker 1: the White House, especially with this president, I think it's 692 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: time to retire from political photography and move on to 693 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,800 Speaker 1: something else you never know, may afford you some new opportunities. 694 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 1: Michelle is not going to run, so if that's what 695 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: you're hinting at, thank you, Pete, and good luck with 696 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,399 Speaker 1: the book. It's beautiful on Your photographs are so fun 697 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: to look at. You're one of my favorite things on 698 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: my Instagram feeds. So thank you, Thank you so much, Pete. 699 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,239 Speaker 1: It's an extraordinary book. Thank you, Bryan. I'm not an 700 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:57,279 Speaker 1: attack dog as usual. We'd like to beg our production team. 701 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,160 Speaker 1: Gianna Palmer is our producer. Even though she's not here today, 702 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 1: she's still our producer. Nora Richie is our production assistant, 703 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: and Jared O'Connell engineers and mixes the show. And Ryan 704 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: in l A helped to engineer today's show, as well 705 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,840 Speaker 1: as special thank you and shout out to Alison Bresnik. 706 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: Not only does she have her finger on the pulse 707 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: of all things social media, but she booked our interview 708 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,720 Speaker 1: with Pete Susa this week. Well played, Allison, well played. 709 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 1: Mark Phillips is the man behind our theme music, and 710 00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 1: Emily Beana makes the magic happen over at Katie Currik Media. 711 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: Don't forget to find us on social media. I'm Katie 712 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: Couric on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook, and I'm Katie dot 713 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,759 Speaker 1: Corric on Snapchat. Brian me Well is tweeting up a 714 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: storm over at Goldsmith b on Twitter. He's very amusing 715 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: and slightly outspoken, ever so slightly And if you have 716 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: feedback or guest ideas, do drop us an email at 717 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,879 Speaker 1: comments at correct podcast dot com. You can also leave 718 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,319 Speaker 1: us a voicemail at nine to nine to to four 719 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: four six three seven until next week. Thank you so 720 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:07,880 Speaker 1: much for listening, Ladam