1
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:20,320
Speaker 1: What is Up?

2
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,640
Speaker 2: Mets fans, Welcome back to another episode of the Mets

3
00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,480
Speaker 2: Up Podcast recur Now recurring guests Lance Prasdowski joining us

4
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 2: to talk about not just Mets pitching in general, but

5
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,120
Speaker 2: also some Mets pitching prospects. We've got a bunch of

6
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 2: names that we're going to go through in today's episode.

7
00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 2: We hope you guys are excited to listen and watch. Remember,

8
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,559
Speaker 2: if you're over on YouTube, subscribe to the Mets Up

9
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 2: Podcast YouTube channel. Go subscribe to Lances channel as well.

10
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 2: Approaching ten thousand subscribers, we need to get them over there.

11
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 2: If you want pitching content, there's nobody better on the

12
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,120
Speaker 2: internet right now, especially on YouTube. So makesure you are subscribed.

13
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,400
Speaker 2: There'll be a link in the description. And yeah, let's

14
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 2: get going into this. So the Mets have made a

15
00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 2: lot of moves. I guess we could start with the

16
00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,440
Speaker 2: guys on the major league roster right now, and then

17
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,120
Speaker 2: we'll get a little bit deeper into those prospects. But

18
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 2: one of the big names that people are most interested

19
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,520
Speaker 2: in talking about this offseason has been Clay Holmes, because

20
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:08,120
Speaker 2: the Mets are going to be attempting to turn him

21
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 2: into a starting Pitcher would love to hear your thoughts

22
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,240
Speaker 2: about that idea and whether you think he actually can

23
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:14,080
Speaker 2: maybe stick there.

24
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 1: I thought you're gonna say Griffin canningerim on, he's not

25
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,360
Speaker 1: excited about Rick Griffin Canning. Yeah, I think that this

26
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 1: was an interesting conversion candidate. I made a video a

27
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,480
Speaker 1: bit ago about Holmes and Hoffman specifically, just because those

28
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 1: were the obviously rumor guys that I thought had a

29
00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 1: shot at it. I think when you approach it from

30
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,200
Speaker 1: a data perspective, you're basically looking at, does this guy

31
00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,399
Speaker 1: have some semblance of command relative to starters in Major

32
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 1: League Baseball that could hold up? And how deep is

33
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,720
Speaker 1: the mix. I think the hesitancy that a lot of

34
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,240
Speaker 1: people had with Holmes specifically was that he's a sinker guy.

35
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,360
Speaker 1: Sinkers usually work versus same handed hitters, don't often work

36
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 1: as well versus oppo handed hitters. So a lot of people,

37
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,040
Speaker 1: I think were hesitanting to assume that this guy would

38
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 1: be able to throw one hundred and forty innings and post,

39
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,840
Speaker 1: you know, sub forty r as a starter. But there's

40
00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: like a quirk of that oppo handed sinker thing that

41
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 1: you get to if you're like a Logan web style

42
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 1: where if you have enough like drop on your sinker,

43
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,080
Speaker 1: it'll actually work to the opposite handedness. Now Holmes doesn't

44
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 1: have drop, but he's such a weird release guy how

45
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 1: high he releases the ball that I think he has

46
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,720
Speaker 1: the perception of drop to get him to allow you know,

47
00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 1: thirty forty percent of that sinker to left handed hitters

48
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 1: and not have a massive issue, you know. I think

49
00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,799
Speaker 1: he's gonna the for seing more. We'll see if they

50
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 1: add in some other funky pitch developed the change up

51
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 1: to help against lefties. But I think I'm cautiably optimistic.

52
00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,480
Speaker 1: I don't think he's like starting a playoff game for

53
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 1: the Mets, but I think that he's a good starter

54
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,320
Speaker 1: for I don't know, twenty starts, twenty five, and then

55
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,679
Speaker 1: maybe they convert him back to the pen and he

56
00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,000
Speaker 1: looks great in the postseason. I've always been a Holmes fan.

57
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,240
Speaker 1: I would say, I don't think I ever really understood

58
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,679
Speaker 1: much of the hate coming from the Yankee fans about him.

59
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,920
Speaker 1: I guess I kind of understanding. He blew some saves

60
00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:51,720
Speaker 1: here and there, and he never was like a lockdown

61
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,919
Speaker 1: glass a style closer, but He's not that kind of pitcher,

62
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,040
Speaker 1: So I like this. They got to go for some upside.

63
00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:58,440
Speaker 1: They spent so much money on Soto, you got to

64
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,960
Speaker 1: kind of piece together and have funk rotation. I think

65
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 1: Holmes fits.

66
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:02,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

67
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:03,360
Speaker 3: To give you a lot of credit because you were

68
00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,840
Speaker 3: one of the first people, I feel like, who was

69
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 3: banging this drunk for Clay Holmes to wind up as

70
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,119
Speaker 3: a starting pitcher of this offseason. You mentioned the fact

71
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,040
Speaker 3: that maybe he does something funky like a change up.

72
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 3: What about Clay Holmes's approach? Has our mangled anything about

73
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 3: him to make you think a change up as possible?

74
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 3: And if any reason, why hasn't that been something he's

75
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,280
Speaker 3: been able to develop so far.

76
00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was like totally necessary as

77
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 1: a reliever, I feel like a reliever a lot of times.

78
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,440
Speaker 1: I think some teams like the Twins are starting to

79
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,640
Speaker 1: push into deeper mixes for relievers. You see this with

80
00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: like a Griffin Jacks, who's another guy who's I don't

81
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: think is going to convert this offseason to a starter,

82
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 1: but has been speculated in that realm of like Okay,

83
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: who's got command and a deep mix and can battle

84
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 1: both handedness, that maybe has the workload we could push

85
00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,280
Speaker 1: up to get to one hundred twenty ins, because that's

86
00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,720
Speaker 1: obviously where there's more value from a you know, value

87
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,119
Speaker 1: over replacement perspective, from a picture perspective. But but yeah,

88
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,000
Speaker 1: I think I think that we've gotten on the point

89
00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 1: with seam orientation understanding which you could bucket into this

90
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 1: giant glob of like seam shifted away seem effects stuff

91
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 1: that basically most guys can get to some decent kind

92
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,480
Speaker 1: of change up, even if it's just like a chase

93
00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,240
Speaker 1: change up that has a bunch of vert that drops

94
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: off of fastball. Obviously, like the best change up some

95
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,839
Speaker 1: baseball are from guys who've thrown him for a long

96
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 1: time and can command them and et cetera. But I

97
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,600
Speaker 1: just think if you're looking for something more armside drop

98
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 1: for swing and miss that isn't a sinker to opposite

99
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,680
Speaker 1: handed hairs because the leftis is probably gonna be more

100
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 1: of his problem, then that's like an obvious route to go.

101
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 1: I actually don't have too much experience like hands on,

102
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get more polished with understanding what orientations

103
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: to go to, whether to go change up or split

104
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,480
Speaker 1: some of those characteristics. It's probably better to ask like

105
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,880
Speaker 1: someone who's actually hands on with athletes all the time.

106
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 1: But I definitely have talked to people who are like, yeah,

107
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 1: I could get most guys throw some kind of change

108
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,599
Speaker 1: up now, you know, even if it's just a two

109
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,440
Speaker 1: strike chase pitch, And I think that could be valuable

110
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:47,279
Speaker 1: for a guy like Holmes.

111
00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,720
Speaker 2: Now for a guy like Griffin Canning, a lot of

112
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 2: Mets fans are not particularly excited that they signed.

113
00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,480
Speaker 1: I'm excited about that, Okay, yeah, so.

114
00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,599
Speaker 2: There it is, because statistically last year was one of

115
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,200
Speaker 2: the worst pitchers in baseball, if not the worst. Yeah,

116
00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 2: he was horrible, But we also know he's coming from

117
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 2: the Angels organization which just had a really hard time

118
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,040
Speaker 2: develop and pitching. Even like their first round picks over

119
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 2: the last few year with Redeptmers and Sam Bachman, guys

120
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,760
Speaker 2: just haven't really lived up to the hype. So what

121
00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 2: what is making you excite about Griffin Cannon That can

122
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 2: maybe give the Mets fans at home a little bit

123
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,320
Speaker 2: of like a deep breath of like, okay, this isn't insane.

124
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,560
Speaker 1: Well, one of my favorite things to do every off

125
00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,919
Speaker 1: season to look at the prior year's worst pitchers. I

126
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,039
Speaker 1: have this theory that I've talked to major league coaches

127
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 1: and minor league coaches about that terrible pitchers are better

128
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: to work with from like a let's get better standpoint

129
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 1: than guys who are like mediocre average, where the guy's

130
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: mediocre average maybe doesn't think he needs to do a

131
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 1: lot to sustain his job. When reality the league adjusts

132
00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,479
Speaker 1: back and then he's really bad. But that's honestly the

133
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 1: case of Canning probably between like twenty one, twenty two

134
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 1: and twenty three, where he was like I'm okay, I'm okay,

135
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,719
Speaker 1: and then the league was like you are bad. He

136
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 1: was like, I am bad. Need to adjust out. So

137
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,360
Speaker 1: I love those guys. I actually have a video coming

138
00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,560
Speaker 1: out today I on a YouTube channel that is in

139
00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,840
Speaker 1: this idea of let's look at the worst pitchers in

140
00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,960
Speaker 1: baseball and try to pick out some that have some improved.

141
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 1: I cheated a little. I have like Justin ber Lander

142
00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,520
Speaker 1: in there going to the Giants, But Griffith Canning's on

143
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,240
Speaker 1: that list, so I talk about him a bit. The

144
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,680
Speaker 1: key thing with him is one I don't think then

145
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,120
Speaker 1: Angels are particularly good on the pitching side, so I

146
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,880
Speaker 1: like looking at you know, the Angels and Marlins. Marlins

147
00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 1: just turned over a bunch of pitching staff. But like

148
00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,040
Speaker 1: the guys who were on the Marlins in this last

149
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: couple of years, when you are trying to target a

150
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 1: guy that is bad has bad peripherals, maybe he has

151
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 1: like one decent pitch and two decent pitches, but you

152
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,200
Speaker 1: can't see a path to success. I like looking at

153
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,040
Speaker 1: teams where they just turned over staff. So that's where

154
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,719
Speaker 1: I go, like to Marlins, to the Marlins and some

155
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,720
Speaker 1: of those guys. But with the Angels, it's the same idea.

156
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,600
Speaker 1: They're not particularly great from the pitching side, so when

157
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 1: they go to a Sharper Org, I think the Mets

158
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 1: are on the up and up on the pitching side.

159
00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 1: I just think they're gonna make smart changes. The obvious

160
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: thing for Canning was on the last game of the season,

161
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,040
Speaker 1: if you look at his slider, he started throwing a sweeper,

162
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:49,720
Speaker 1: and it's a really good sweeper and you can throw

163
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,920
Speaker 1: them the majority of his career, and the Mets are

164
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 1: definitely pro sweeper. From some of the minor league names

165
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,320
Speaker 1: we'll talk about, they have a lot of these guys

166
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,160
Speaker 1: that rip nasty sweepers that are gonna great out well

167
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,440
Speaker 1: and stuff models, which is because they're hard and be

168
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 1: sweep a lot and they're gonna crush righties. And his

169
00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,520
Speaker 1: was strong, like some guys break up sweepers, and it's like,

170
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,240
Speaker 1: all right, that's an average sweeper, and we're running into

171
00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,360
Speaker 1: the situation where a lot of average sweepers are kind

172
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 1: of getting aren't as valuable. I would say we've seen

173
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,960
Speaker 1: some deterioration in terms of chase against them in the

174
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,400
Speaker 1: aggregate when you look from twenty one to twenty two

175
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,880
Speaker 1: until now twenty four ish. But when you have a

176
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 1: good sweeper like Cannings was like eighty five to eighty

177
00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 1: seven with a little bit under twelve inches a horizontal,

178
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,240
Speaker 1: but that's like it's gonna grate out as a plus sweeper.

179
00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 1: So I like that pitch. I think they're gonna rip

180
00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 1: that a ton. I'll spoil some of my video and

181
00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 1: say my crazy hot take on him because I don't

182
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,560
Speaker 1: think he's gonna start a ton or I kind of

183
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 1: was like, okay, if he starts, I see a path

184
00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 1: because he's got a couple of decent breaking balls. But

185
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 1: I kind of love him as this reliever that never

186
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,679
Speaker 1: throws his fastball, And I'm not talking like cut fastball uses.

187
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm saying like stop throwing like Jacob Judith, a four

188
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,720
Speaker 1: pitch exactly become like a give me, give me this

189
00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 1: slider tweener pitch that he throws, which he actually commands

190
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,040
Speaker 1: better than his fastball. That's your strike pitch, early count,

191
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,000
Speaker 1: and then you go sweeper curveball, change off that and

192
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:00,760
Speaker 1: you could crush either head in a hitter, and you

193
00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,760
Speaker 1: become just like this matchup proof bullpen demon type guy

194
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,640
Speaker 1: that maybe gets in the ninety innings if he needs

195
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,960
Speaker 1: his spot start occasionally unless they call up like a

196
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,720
Speaker 1: Sprout or someone along those lines. But but I'm kind

197
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 1: of in Uncanning. I don't know, I get I get

198
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 1: kind of like excited about these terrible pictures because when

199
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:17,960
Speaker 1: you when you get a call on one of these

200
00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 1: guys where it's like, oh that guy posted a four

201
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,760
Speaker 1: after having like a five to five, it's like I

202
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,240
Speaker 1: was on it. Well you're going for everyone else? That's fun, yeah, right,

203
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,480
Speaker 1: Like I've seen these sleepers like Ryan Pepio. It's like

204
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,640
Speaker 1: Peppeo is a fantastic picture. Like what is sleepy about

205
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,679
Speaker 1: Griffin Canning is a sleeper. That is a sleeper because

206
00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,040
Speaker 1: everyone is asleep on him, and I can imagine a

207
00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 1: small step forward that would make him relevant.

208
00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 2: I mean even if you look at again, like last

209
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 2: year Severino Mania, like we're coming off of horrendous years.

210
00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,000
Speaker 2: They were some of the worst pictures and that Mets

211
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,000
Speaker 2: we turned them around.

212
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great point. Saverina got paid. No, say

213
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 1: it's a great point. I think you get cases of

214
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 1: this every year, and that was my point. Like the

215
00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,760
Speaker 1: first time that it made me think of this was

216
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,560
Speaker 1: going back to like twenty eighteen to nineteen with Cordon Burns,

217
00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,640
Speaker 1: and then I believe that prior season was Gielito from

218
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,840
Speaker 1: eighteen to nineteen, seventeen to eighteen. I made mixing up

219
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: the years where he was like literally the worst pitcher

220
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:05,800
Speaker 1: in baseball and then he put up a five more

221
00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 1: season and got sidevotes. The same thing happened with Corten Burns.

222
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,679
Speaker 1: Like this happens more than people think. And obviously it's

223
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 1: not like ten of ten, it's more like one of ten.

224
00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,360
Speaker 1: But when you hit that one of ten, it's very

225
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,640
Speaker 1: relevant to make that change.

226
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:17,520
Speaker 3: And something else that's cool about Canning is that, yeah,

227
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,000
Speaker 3: he was the worst pitcher in baseball. The whole reason

228
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:20,960
Speaker 3: he was able to become the worst pitcher in baseball

229
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,719
Speaker 3: stistically was that, for the first time his career, he

230
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,240
Speaker 3: threw more than one hundred third of the innings. He

231
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 3: was healthy for the first time ever. So, Griffin Canning's,

232
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:28,600
Speaker 3: in a normal offseason, you're gonna work with the Mets.

233
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,280
Speaker 3: You mentioned the fact that you feel like now the

234
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,959
Speaker 3: Mets are on the open up pitching development. Q tell

235
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 3: us why you think that is from an outside perspective.

236
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 3: From the inside, we were fully drinking the kool aid.

237
00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,240
Speaker 3: We're all in the Mets pitcher lab. Hefner Jaeger's also

238
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 3: wanted to maybe if you can't touch on the new

239
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 3: higher Desu Jochelle from the Yankees. Oh yeah, I see

240
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:45,599
Speaker 3: all the best guys from the Yankees. But what what

241
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 3: from the outside makes you think the Mets pitching is

242
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:48,199
Speaker 3: on the up and up?

243
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:50,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a matter of looking at some

244
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,560
Speaker 1: of the stuff in the minor leagues and looking at

245
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,440
Speaker 1: the pitchers honestly, like a good way to do it

246
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,559
Speaker 1: is literally the exercise that it did before. Hobbinham's pot

247
00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 1: of looking at like the top six seven arms and

248
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,960
Speaker 1: just seeing what they're building. Lot of high vlo it's

249
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,720
Speaker 1: a lot of two playing fastballs. There's a lot of

250
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 1: deep mixes, which I really really like from young pitchers.

251
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,320
Speaker 1: I did a video on that as well, and just

252
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,319
Speaker 1: like expanding reponshire early allowing you to become a higher

253
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,240
Speaker 1: probability starting pitcher long term. But I just think they're

254
00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,840
Speaker 1: making sharp decisions from a velocity perspective, stuff perspective, et cetera.

255
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,360
Speaker 1: It could just come down to the simple as stuff.

256
00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,680
Speaker 1: And I'm biased as well, like when you hire people

257
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 1: that I've had communication with, like a Yeager's and a

258
00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,720
Speaker 1: Desi and have had conversations with and they're good people

259
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,840
Speaker 1: and they're sharp, and they've taught me something like I'm

260
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,160
Speaker 1: definitely gonna lean in that direction. So maybe it's a

261
00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,880
Speaker 1: little more anecdotal, but I think it's I think they're

262
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,520
Speaker 1: signaling the fact that DESI made a lateral move to

263
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 1: go to the Mets, you know, like that is a

264
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:38,840
Speaker 1: little bit surprising, and a lot of the times what

265
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 1: happens in this stuff is like these lateral moves get

266
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 1: blocked from an interviewing perspective. So what the team has

267
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 1: to do is then you know, just straight off for

268
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,280
Speaker 1: the guy without talking to him. You know, I don't

269
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:49,760
Speaker 1: know if this happened with DESI I know what happened

270
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 1: with a couple other like assistant pitching coach kind of

271
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,839
Speaker 1: swaps this season, and that was a surprising one to

272
00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,560
Speaker 1: me because like Yane's in the great spot, he had

273
00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,840
Speaker 1: a lot of autonomy. I definitely know that he helped

274
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,680
Speaker 1: out with a lot of their like NONS tools, which

275
00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,439
Speaker 1: goes back to this like seamshifted wake thing that a

276
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,240
Speaker 1: lot of teams are on and understanding. I think the

277
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 1: Mets are very littered in that sense of being able

278
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,959
Speaker 1: to get guys two different shapes to help versus different handedness.

279
00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: They push V low and I'm in. I'm in on

280
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 1: just a lot of the arms that they have in

281
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,240
Speaker 1: the minors, and I think it's reflected in the prospect lists.

282
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,319
Speaker 4: Hey, Valentine's Day is coming up, and we have the

283
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 4: recommendation for you to check out right now. Don't wait,

284
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,839
Speaker 4: it's one eight hundred flowers dot com. This year, we're

285
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,160
Speaker 4: partnering with one eight hundred Flowers to make sure you're

286
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,480
Speaker 4: a Valentine's Legend with an exclusive offer for the ft fam.

287
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 4: It's double the roses for free. When you buy one dozen,

288
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,400
Speaker 4: they're gonna double your bouquet to two dozen roses. It's

289
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,880
Speaker 4: the perfect way to wow her without breaking the bank.

290
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 4: One eight hundred Flowers always delivers. Let them dominate this holiday.

291
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:44,679
Speaker 4: It's what they do best.

292
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,880
Speaker 1: Think about everyone in your fam that deserves some love.

293
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,200
Speaker 1: On Valentine's Day, I sent a bouquet to my daughter

294
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,320
Speaker 1: at college and it lit up her day. I also

295
00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 1: added an awesome base to the order for so she's

296
00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 1: got it all.

297
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,080
Speaker 4: All roses from one eight hundred Flowers are picked at

298
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 4: their peak, cared for every step of the way, and

299
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,320
Speaker 4: shipped rash to ensure lasting beauty. Don't wait think ahead

300
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,320
Speaker 4: this year. Make it easy and get that deal right now.

301
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,120
Speaker 4: When you order one dozen, they'll double the rose bouquet

302
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 4: for free. That's the ft deals that we're always looking

303
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,480
Speaker 4: out for. Go to one eight hundred flowers dot com

304
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,760
Speaker 4: slash ft that's one eight hundred flowers dot com slash.

305
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:18,760
Speaker 1: F t.

306
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,520
Speaker 2: All right, so let's talk about some of those arms.

307
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:22,720
Speaker 1: Now.

308
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,560
Speaker 2: We got Brandon Sprote that's the big one. That's the

309
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,400
Speaker 2: one everybody's waiting for. A lot of hype around him.

310
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 2: How do you feel about Brandon Sprout as a pitching prospect.

311
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd say it was, like, honestly, first off, I

312
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,800
Speaker 1: thought his name was Sprout for like a hear some

313
00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 1: grad I'm glad that I now know it's Sprout, so

314
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 1: I don't look like an idiot saying sprout. But yeah,

315
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: he's he pounds the zone. I'm a little more skeptical

316
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 1: in the fastball shape here, I think than other people.

317
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,440
Speaker 1: I know, Eric Long and Hagen in Baseball Perspectives just

318
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,360
Speaker 1: released their top one on one and he's I think

319
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 1: he was top fifty ish right around there, like the

320
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,960
Speaker 1: top couple. Yeah, yeah, like top five pitching prospect in baseball.

321
00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,280
Speaker 1: For me, I don't think he's templated at as like

322
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,680
Speaker 1: a top five pitching prospect in baseball. I view him

323
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,240
Speaker 1: a little bit more almost more like Brandon fought from

324
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,160
Speaker 1: the d Backs, where it's like really pound zone. You

325
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 1: look at his maps, everything is centered and it's worked

326
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,880
Speaker 1: for a pretty good amount of time because his stuff's

327
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 1: really good. It's hard. But the fastball in particular, I

328
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,559
Speaker 1: am a little bit a little bit hesitant on in

329
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 1: terms of some of the shape regression we Shaw when

330
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 1: he jumped up to triple A. It's not a good

331
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 1: carry pitch. As we'll talk like Jonah Tong just has

332
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,160
Speaker 1: a really fun fastball. He's trying to get you to

333
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,600
Speaker 1: other weapons in his mix, which are the slider, the sweeper,

334
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 1: off at, the change up, et cetera. Like that is

335
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 1: his goal is the goal with a lot of these

336
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,640
Speaker 1: guys that don't have like great fastball. So while he's

337
00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 1: been able to kind of just rip that thing by

338
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,680
Speaker 1: double A and low and lower than that hitters, I

339
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:48,520
Speaker 1: am not like totally sold in this guy being like

340
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,240
Speaker 1: a top rotation type. I like him more as like

341
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,439
Speaker 1: a horse middle, which is where I think like the

342
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,240
Speaker 1: fought comp makes sense because I don't think a lot

343
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 1: of people view him as like an ace. You know,

344
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 1: he was terrible his first too, and then he bounced

345
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,040
Speaker 1: back pretty nice last year. I think people are probably

346
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,000
Speaker 1: in the middle line him like he's a valuable starting pitcher,

347
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 1: he's under control. People like him, but they don't view

348
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 1: hims like a top rotation teche. I think that's where

349
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: I come down on Sproat. I know other people have

350
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 1: different opinions here, and if you're ranking him on the

351
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,319
Speaker 1: top forty top five pitching prospect in baseball purely because

352
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 1: he's stable. I get that, Like, I totally understand that,

353
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,240
Speaker 1: like pitching prospects are really volata. I think I lean

354
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 1: more towards like the guys like the Noah Schultze's of

355
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:26,960
Speaker 1: the world, some of these guys where it's like you

356
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: get unique outlier traits alongside that v low and better

357
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,840
Speaker 1: shapes than a sprout from a fastball perspective specifically, and

358
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,440
Speaker 1: then it's like, Okay, I'll buy into that, Whereas like Sproud,

359
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,880
Speaker 1: I view more as like gonna have a major league

360
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 1: role and make impact. But is this guy like starting

361
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 1: game one of the Mets CS or World Series run

362
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty seven. No, but he's in pitching Game

363
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,440
Speaker 1: three and he's he give you five inning, six innings

364
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 1: and it's good. Like, yeah, I'm cool with that. So

365
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,600
Speaker 1: I guess I'm I just temper my expectations a little

366
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 1: bit more where I think he's like a major leaguer.

367
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 1: I'm just not totally sold in this fastball working long

368
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 1: term to make him like an elite, elite starting pitcher.

369
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,960
Speaker 3: Where do you have the seesaw between velocity and a

370
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 3: fastball and shape on a fastball, because one of the

371
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,000
Speaker 3: things that holds back Fought specifically is that fastball is

372
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 3: a lot more cut that ride. It doesn't have much

373
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 3: rye at all. Yeah, he doesn't really often get it

374
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 3: to the ninety five range. He never really touches ninety

375
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 3: six range where I sprot at times his min Ley

376
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,320
Speaker 3: crew has been able to sit there. So again, I

377
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 3: don't think he'll be able to sit there forever. But

378
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 3: where where do you have the value between shape and

379
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,840
Speaker 3: velocity for a picture like Sproke the great point?

380
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,440
Speaker 1: I introspect about this a lot when I look at

381
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,760
Speaker 1: things because like one of the things that I know,

382
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,960
Speaker 1: like Robert Stock I believe, yeah cup too Red Sox,

383
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 1: and like I remember him and Kyle Body a driveline

384
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: had a conversation on Twitter about how and as you

385
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,720
Speaker 1: throw harder, there's like some biomechanical element that literally like

386
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 1: prevents you from creating great shape. So it's like this

387
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,480
Speaker 1: is why you look at a lot of like really

388
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 1: hard fastballs and baseball and you're likeah, that shape's not

389
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: that good, you know. It's like it's kind of two

390
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,880
Speaker 1: playing doesn't have above average very relative to the slot.

391
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 1: It runs the little sort of work versus rieties. He

392
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 1: needs a sinker, et cetera. You know, like it's almost

393
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 1: like to some Paul Skein's problem when he was coming

394
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,280
Speaker 1: out of college, everyone was like bad fastball, and it's like, yeah,

395
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 1: but like velocity can buffer against bad fastball shape. So

396
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,480
Speaker 1: your point on fought to Sproat is a good one

397
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 1: in terms of like, Okay, I had three ticks there.

398
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 1: I'm much more confident in that fastball working. I think

399
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,720
Speaker 1: the thing that I would prefer to see is like

400
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 1: I definitely want villa first. So if you're telling me, like,

401
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 1: bounce the scale out, I'll take Villa. But you it's

402
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: like it's a sliding scale. So how bad is this shape?

403
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 1: You know? Is it? Like? Uh? Like I Max Meyer

404
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,000
Speaker 1: is a good example, right Minnesota kid had a banger

405
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,080
Speaker 1: slider's entire career in Minnesota, and then he jumps at

406
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 1: the majors, gets crushed, you know, and it's like, Okay,

407
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 1: that guy's got a bad fastball. Like he cuts it

408
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: a bit, it's not cutting enough. He just throws it

409
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,440
Speaker 1: over the middle of the plate and he throws ninety

410
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 1: three to ninety four. It's like, given that guy three ticks,

411
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 1: and like, maybe we could get that shape a little better.

412
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 1: So I lean towards the velocity side. But I think

413
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 1: what we run into is like we're seeing a lot

414
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 1: at the major league level, guys are zoning on fastball

415
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 1: so much as hitters and crushing them that you almost

416
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 1: have to like make the shape slightly better or throw

417
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 1: harder and then throw the pitch less, and it becomes

418
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 1: a matter of like situation, how are you using that

419
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: fastball to get the most life out of it, so

420
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 1: to speak. So I unfortunately don't have his usage up

421
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,240
Speaker 1: right here, but I think he was throwing around like

422
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,280
Speaker 1: forty five to fifty percent. He was pretty fastball heavy

423
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 1: in the minors, I believe, and I think that's gonna

424
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 1: come down. It's just like the nature of the beast,

425
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 1: Like you can zone that thing and get it by

426
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,320
Speaker 1: double a hitters. But the villo's good. But because the

427
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: shape is more average to me, I think it's gonna

428
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,639
Speaker 1: grad out probably above average and stuff models, but I

429
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if that pitch slightly underperforms. Again, I

430
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: view him and more as a guy that is like

431
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,159
Speaker 1: trying to punch you to everything that is deep in

432
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,399
Speaker 1: his mix, so we're gonna maybe run in some problems

433
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,720
Speaker 1: where he's like worse behind in count than the average

434
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 1: pitcher in baseball because like maybe he tries to go

435
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,600
Speaker 1: back to the fastball and it's like ninety six flat

436
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,640
Speaker 1: of shape even though it's armside, that's gonna get crushed

437
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:41,879
Speaker 1: by life.

438
00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:43,520
Speaker 2: I mean that would make sense to he did struggle

439
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 2: at Triple A and you are just gonna get a

440
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,879
Speaker 2: different quality of hitter at that level rather than double A,

441
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 2: where that Vello could really just be the riding force.

442
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 2: There another guy in the Mets org that's really got

443
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,320
Speaker 2: some helium right now, Joonah Tom.

444
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 1: He's this guy's so much healing.

445
00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,479
Speaker 2: He's such a like interesting prospect because he kind of

446
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 2: came out of note like everyone knew this could be

447
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 2: something that was happening. But his rise last year was

448
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,639
Speaker 2: meteoric in terms of as a pitching prospect. Where now

449
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 2: there's some lists that have him inside the top one

450
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,440
Speaker 2: hundred prospects and he was someone who's relatively unknown. What

451
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,959
Speaker 2: is it about Jonah Tongu that makes him so enticing

452
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 2: as a prospect.

453
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fastball shap's great here, and that is really it.

454
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,959
Speaker 1: It's a tough one. I feel like I don't know.

455
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 1: I'll admit when I in this industry, like I'll build

456
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 1: my list preseason, I'll do an update in season in

457
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 1: terms of my top pitching prospects. I throw it up

458
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,880
Speaker 1: on my substack. I pulled in some advanced data and stuff,

459
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of the time, like when I missed

460
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 1: somebody like a Tom or even Sproke, I don't think

461
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,480
Speaker 1: I ranked broke last year, and then this year I

462
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 1: was like, oh man, I can't believe I missed this guy.

463
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 1: I tend to like become a little overly critical of

464
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 1: them to try to like defend my list. So like,

465
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,159
Speaker 1: I think I'm slightly down on sprot relative to the

466
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 1: market on my list and Tongue I didn't rank in

467
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:52,919
Speaker 1: my top forty, which I will now correct in this

468
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: coming season. But I was like a little bit off

469
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 1: him because what we were running into it early last year,

470
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 1: in mid last year when he started to ascend, is

471
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: that tong reminds me so much of like a Taj Bradley,

472
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 1: where it's a huge carry fastball. One of the problems

473
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 1: with guys this is like the blight of stuff models,

474
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:11,880
Speaker 1: stuff models will love this pitch, Like, this is gonna

475
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 1: be a plus plus fastball. It's probably gonna grade Like

476
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 1: one of the top ten is fifteen. If he holds

477
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,640
Speaker 1: a shape as he has sensed and uses major league ball,

478
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: which is a quirk I won't get into, but minor

479
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 1: league ball is slightly different than the ball use a

480
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 1: triple A in the majors, so like you get some

481
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,640
Speaker 1: shape regression. So he's popping twenty inches of vert from

482
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 1: a six foot release at ninety three yesh, right now,

483
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 1: Like if that comes down to nineteen eighteen and a half,

484
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,919
Speaker 1: I won't be totally surprised. It's just a byproduct of

485
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 1: how the lower level balls are just different than the

486
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 1: major league balls. And it's really annoying from a data

487
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 1: perspective when you're building models because it's like it doesn't

488
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 1: happen to SPRO because SPRO was like I think fifteen

489
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: and ten, fifteen and eleven in double A are below, So

490
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: that's fifteen inches a vert and eleven arm side. It's

491
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 1: about average vert but more armside than your average fastball.

492
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,120
Speaker 1: He gets up to triple a small sample, he's down

493
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 1: to like fourteen and ten, and like that's objectively where shape.

494
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 1: So it's like, if I'm looking at him in double

495
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 1: A and going I have to like think, Okay, is

496
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,439
Speaker 1: he gonna hold this sixteen and ten shape as he

497
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: gets to the majors? If not, then like I don't

498
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 1: necessarily mean we're gonna work, you know. So that's why

499
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: I'm I don't mean to rip BP. I love a

500
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 1: lot of their work, but they ranked a lot of

501
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 1: guys aggressively that are low like Travis Sikora and Jackson Ferris,

502
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: who are lower level pitchers who I think have okay

503
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 1: stuff but have great results. And I just wonder where

504
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 1: these guys start to maybe slightly regress as they jump

505
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:26,639
Speaker 1: up and use major league balls and stuff. So that's

506
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: why I want the guys with really good movement. So

507
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 1: going back to Tong to some extent, I think I

508
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 1: buy that, like, even with some proggression is forcing, this

509
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 1: guy's still gonna have a great fastball. The problem that

510
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm going in a giant circle or so hanging with me.

511
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: The problem with really good fastball shape like this is

512
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,639
Speaker 1: that when you're behind the ball really well and you

513
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: create this carry, you're generally limited in what other pitches

514
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: you can compile and turn and like create. This was

515
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,959
Speaker 1: Todds Bradley's problem for a while because his slider has

516
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: been all over the place the last couple of years.

517
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 1: They finally got into like a weird split change thing

518
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: that's working. But Tong to me, slider and change up

519
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,199
Speaker 1: just at kind of fine because he's so behind the ball,

520
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: like you just watched just google like a YouTube highlight

521
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: or whatever of him. He like tilts. He almost reminds

522
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,959
Speaker 1: me a literally like Linsey Come. But his arm is

523
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 1: like up and because he's a little shorter, he's got

524
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 1: good extension. He pulls that down to a reasonable release

525
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: height such that he's carrying this ball from such a

526
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 1: little slide. It works, but I struggle a little bit

527
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,119
Speaker 1: to envision, like the current tong the mix he has

528
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: is not gonna be the mix he has when he's

529
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: a major leaguer. There's gonna be some tweaks on the slide.

530
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: There's gonna be some tweaks on the change up. I

531
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 1: think the slide the curveball's fine, but it pops way

532
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: too much off the fastball line. Like I just think

533
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 1: it's really rare for a guy to be like on

534
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: fastball curveball in the majors. It's like, I think, here's

535
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: mostly can I dat and figure that out out a hand,

536
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: unless you're like Adam Wainwright or something. So I just

537
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: think you're not in like final form tong yet. But again,

538
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: the basis of the fastball shape here literally a best

539
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: pitch in this organization, it's probably the tong fastball. So

540
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 1: I get why everyone's excited about him. I just I

541
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,719
Speaker 1: guess in my my Devil's advocate window, I'm just like,

542
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 1: I've seen this before with some guys where it's like

543
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: great fastball, and then it's like it takes this guy

544
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: two to three years to figure out a slider and

545
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 1: a change up and he has heavy platoons splits in

546
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,120
Speaker 1: one direction because one of those pitches comes before the other.

547
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna rank if I had to like rank it, obviously,

548
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: I think most people have Sprot one, So I'll go

549
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 1: Sprot one. In terms of picture in the system, I'll

550
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: go tong To purely on the fastball. But they're very

551
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: different pictures to me, Like Sprot is like I'm gonna

552
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: get you away from the fastball and pound you in

553
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 1: the zone, and Tongue is like a little weary on

554
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: the command. And I think a lot of success is

555
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 1: literally just from guys being like I don't know what

556
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 1: the heck that was, Like I don't see twenty verd

557
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: at ninety four from a six release much, so like

558
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna swing at it and what it's over,

559
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 1: my bad, I'm screwed, you know. So they're very different pictures,

560
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: is all I'll say. And it's funny because like most

561
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 1: of the guys in this org with the Mets kind

562
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: of look like sprot where it's like two plainy fastball

563
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: and a big mix off that in Vela, where tongue

564
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: is like very different. Tongue is like almost like a

565
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: raised picture to some extent where it's like vert fastball

566
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: and slider. So I went on a huge rant there,

567
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: but it's fascinating to me partially because like I just

568
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: think there's there's going to be like bumps in the

569
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: road along the way. The guy is not just gonna

570
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 1: come up and be like the thing of things, unless

571
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 1: we find out he's got a new split grip or something.

572
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: But like I'm convinced there's gonna be some development here

573
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: that's like, oh I changed this and now all of

574
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: a sudden, I got like really good vert on like

575
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: change and it works versus lefties, and that was my

576
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: problem a whole time. So but I'm following him closely.

577
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: For sure, Mets fans are gonna be so mad. They're

578
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 2: gonna be so mad. You're saying all this.

579
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense much. Come on here and go

580
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: like this.

581
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 3: No you don't want We don't give.

582
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: You the works here, and you're even more in on

583
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: the guy.

584
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what we want, the honesty, the truth,

585
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 3: and something with a guy at the time. I have

586
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 3: another Sea Saw question for you. He is such an

587
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 3: extreme case in terms of his arm action's release in

588
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 3: his fastball. Is there a world where you give some

589
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 3: of that backs you can build more things off of

590
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: a first particular pitch, or is it so good and

591
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: so special that you just don't disrupt it. I've heard,

592
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 3: I think I've heard Kyle Harrison. I want to say

593
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 3: talk about this that it's been very hard for him

594
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 3: to build pitches because he's another guy who has such

595
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 3: a high armsot and high high happy fastball.

596
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is it. I don't think i'd move

597
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: his It's it's a great question. Though I feel like

598
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: I I remember watching a top from Brian Banister, who

599
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: is now in the pitting department with the White Sox,

600
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: and he talked about how, like most guys he's coached,

601
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: that he's had like big break a breakthroughs with like

602
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: a loadan web and such, even like an Eric Fetti,

603
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: I don't believe worked with Banister. Maybe work with Banister specifically,

604
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: but at least worked in a similar mold to Web.

605
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: Most of these guys like lower slots, you know, like

606
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: lowering slots to gets guy more comfortable with stays in planing,

607
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: rotation better. You know, the fast one might regrets a

608
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,239
Speaker 1: little bit, but it allows them to open up, like

609
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, we'll flip this changeup group, get you more depth,

610
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: and then you got a nasty sweeper. That is the

611
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 1: Eric Fetty model essentially. With Tom, he's so vertical that

612
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: like I don't think you can drop him, you know,

613
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: it's like you're dropping him from here to like here.

614
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: Let's be like Robert Stock, like Roberts. I'm bringing up

615
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: Robert Stock two times in the podcasts, who had that

616
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: on the on the Bengal card. But he like he

617
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: posted a video the other day where he like showed

618
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: he was more vert and now he's like pure side

619
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: side on and he's throwing like these these demon sinkers

620
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: at ninety six and stuff, and like that's a massive change.

621
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: You know. I just don't think you dropped tongue slot

622
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: because of how good the fastball is. I think the

623
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: outcomes for him are like you become there's another guy

624
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna comp to, like Pete Fairbanks in here, but

625
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: you could become kind of like a Pete Fairbanks e

626
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: reliever or it's like you push the vlow higher for him.

627
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: You know, he sits maybe ninety five ninety six, and

628
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: it's just like Robert Swartz is a good one. Maybe

629
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: you know, it's like such a good fastpek throw. I

630
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: thinks seventy percent of the time he's a good reliever.

631
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: But there's gonna be more like the reliever risk on

632
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys, like for you first three

633
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: here spro tongue and Tidwell like the reliever risk for

634
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: Tong's eyes in my opinion. So but he's gonna be

635
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: a good reliever. So it's one of those things like

636
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: do you want tid is it Tidwell? I hope it's Tidwell. Yeah, Twell, Yeah, Tidwell.

637
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 1: Tidwell is like a five who likes kind of boring.

638
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: I don't mean to like poo poo him, he's just

639
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: like it is what it is, like, he's he's an

640
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: organizational starter to me, and he's in this like Savale

641
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: Michael is type mold where it's like that's your awesome

642
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: outcome is to get him to that. But he's a

643
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: little more generic on the fastball release because he's higher up,

644
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: So like I think that guy starts. I don't think

645
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: that gould be as strong as a reliever in my opinion,

646
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 1: so he's probably like a five org starter. Four five

647
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: tong is like the upside of a three to two

648
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: with like a leverage reliever. And then Sproude is like

649
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: you're locked in three ish type in my opinion. So

650
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: there's like very different gradations on some of these guys

651
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: in that sort.

652
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: When you think about Noel McLean, because he's another like

653
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: weird guy like it. We saw him in the spring

654
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 2: breakout game and me and James were like, whoa, Like

655
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: the numbers were gaudy, the spin rates were crazy, and

656
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 2: this guy who still has not had a full season

657
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: just being a picture only this upcoming year will be

658
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: the first time he does it. What can Mets fans

659
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: look for with a guy like Noel McLean.

660
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: He's got a ton of spin. He's got like three

661
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: thousand rpm plus on a sweeper, which is just great.

662
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 1: And I think that that's what you lean into a

663
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: director of pitching in another organization. Tell me, like, if

664
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: your guy strength is throwing like high spin, hard breaking balls,

665
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: then you should be throwing like three to four different

666
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,719
Speaker 1: kinds of those breaking balls and throwing them as much

667
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: as possible. And I think that makes a lot of

668
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: sense for a guy like him. But I also like

669
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: the fact, again to the point of liking the Mets

670
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: org like they've diversified the mix on a lot of

671
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: these guys. There's a lot of guys that like a

672
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: ball up below that throwing change ups and mixing in

673
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: like second sliders. Like they're kind of doing what we're

674
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: seeing at the major league level in terms of like

675
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: everyone adding a tween er slider where it's like the

676
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: Clay Holmes like exactly exactly like he had this weird

677
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: tweener slider started throwing a sweeteer became really good, and

678
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: then he kind of added back to this in terms

679
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: of usage this like depth tweener slider, but most of

680
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: the time it's tag as the cutter. You watch it,

681
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: it's probably a cutter, but to me it has so

682
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: much drop it's more a slider. So I like that

683
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: they've really expanded McLean's mix in that respect. I struggle

684
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: sometimes with these guys that just don't have a lot

685
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: of reps because I think if I was in like

686
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: a front office or something, I've probably lean more on

687
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: my scouts for guys like that, where it's like, where

688
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: do you see his body going over time? Where's the

689
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: makeup in terms of his like adaptability. He's not pitched

690
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: for a while, so like, I see the potential for

691
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: like an awesome upswing, and he's got the raw tools

692
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 1: for it. But I'm not great at I would say, Man,

693
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: I'm just not great at projecting these guys who don't

694
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: have like a ton of in under the belt. Robbie

695
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: Snelling's no one that comes to mind who got traded

696
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: from the Posas to the Marlins to go into pitching

697
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,959
Speaker 1: prospect bucket here. But he's another one where it's like

698
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: kind of fun left. He doesn't really throw hard. Nothing

699
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: shapewise looks great, but it's like everyone's just like he's

700
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: young and he's athletic, and it's like, okay, Like I

701
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: don't know how much that matters, but at least McLean.

702
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: I think the positive McClean is like it's a deep

703
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: mix already. I know there's not a ton of strikes there,

704
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: but like the breakers look great. The worst outcome for

705
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: him is like he's like some power reliever, yeah, which

706
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: is like a banger sweeper, and maybe he's like almost

707
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: like a Clay Holmsey type guy where it's like you

708
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: just rip that sweeper. He becomes like a decent righty

709
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: killer in the pen and then I don't know, maybe

710
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 1: he flips into a starting role because again the mix

711
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,959
Speaker 1: is deep enough where I like the idea of all

712
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: these Mets guys just like pushing as starters for as

713
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: long as possible, and then whatever happens down the road

714
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: happens down the road. You know they would to Colin

715
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: wants to go out and buy two other starters, then

716
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: you have these excess and as you see with the Dodgers,

717
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: like I don't think that's an issue at all, no,

718
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: like that Dodgers team is terrifying from a matchup standpoint

719
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: if can get into the playoffs of like when they

720
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: get a start, like I don't know, let's look at

721
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,239
Speaker 1: your line up and so he suck most against that's

722
00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: what we're gonna start, you know, like.

723
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 3: Yeah we clean with that sweeper always has reminded me

724
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 3: a little bit of Matt Brash. But like if you

725
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 3: put on forty pounds and grew a beard, then like

726
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 3: grew out long like rockstar hair, because that's just it

727
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: becomes like that good of a pitch. I feel like

728
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 3: the pitch like that is like what we can carry you.

729
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 3: But we we spent a lot of time not talking

730
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 3: about this top tier of Mets pitching prospects. I'm gonna

731
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: get little deeper now. I want to spifically talk about

732
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: last year's mess draft class because they drafted a ton

733
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 3: of pictures and a ton of pictures out of college

734
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: in the mid rounds. We know the draft is your specialty.

735
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 3: You were on LB network last year covering it and

736
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 3: the Met second round pick was someone who.

737
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: You what breaking news? Jesse Winker back to the Mets.

738
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: What Jesse Winker back to the Mets breaking news on

739
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: the podcast live.

740
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 3: That's amazing, all right, good jobs.

741
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: Yeah that I'll go to interview you guys now, is

742
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: that a good I've been on the Winker market too much.

743
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: I'm happy for it, and it just it really does

744
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: just put a little more pressure on Peede a Lonzo,

745
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: which I love. I love squeezing them for everything that's

746
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: gone right now.

747
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 3: It's gonna be so funny when this comes out in

748
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: like a week and a half and we're like breaking

749
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: news Jesse Winker.

750
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

751
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 3: But some guy I remember seeing you get like physically

752
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: visibly excited about on television was Duke's picture Johnson Santuche. Yeah,

753
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,239
Speaker 3: so tell us what you like the best Antucci and

754
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 3: just what do you think about him as a pitcher?

755
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, So, like I wouldn't say the draft is

756
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: my my expertise, so to speak, I will admit that,

757
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,239
Speaker 1: like I definitely I was actually a little surprised when

758
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: they asked me to do the draft because like, I

759
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: don't have a ton of draft experience. So I spent

760
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: like a ton of time learning everything about college baseball.

761
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: Of course, of like three months when I got told

762
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: I was gonna do this because I was like, man,

763
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: the last thing I want is like going on air

764
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: and saying something really dumb about an organization and stuff

765
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 1: or like not knowing conferences, et cetera, et cetera. So

766
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: I I definitely like polished up. I thought I got

767
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: to it a reasonable level, and also into this realized that,

768
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: like my strength is just analyzing pitching. And I talked

769
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: to enough people in different orgs about this stuff, but

770
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: also ran into issues with the ball in college and

771
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: like park adjustments and all things, and like asking different

772
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: organs about like what what their shape was in this

773
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: guy's fastball. No, oh yeah, we don't have that shape,

774
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: but all we have this and it's like, oh my god.

775
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, everyone's like, just

776
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: look for like spin capacity and weird release characteristics and results.

777
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: And I was like, that's like the most boring stuff ever.

778
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: Like I'm unlocked on all this weird shape stuff all

779
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: the time of the miners, and you're telling me just

780
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: to like look for twenty eight hundred rpm sliders that

781
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: are getting swing. Mess. It's like that seems easy. But anyways,

782
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: that's oversimplification. But Saint Tucci was a well regarded prospects

783
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: for a period of time, kind of had it down

784
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: to her last year, couldn't find his own strike problems,

785
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: et cetera. End of the year, I think either he

786
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: made a mechanical adjustment or moved on the rubber. I'm

787
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: mixing up which of those it was. But he did

788
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 1: something differently, and in his final like couple starts, there

789
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: was like flashes of like twenty twenty two threes command

790
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: that made him more relevant of pitching prospect, and instead

791
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: he was kind of at where he was at, and

792
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: he fell really hard in the draft. I think he's

793
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: interesting because I really like the slider here. This thing

794
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: is like kind of invisible. It's really platoon neutral. Workers

795
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: left his hand right, He's for him. In college at Duke,

796
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: he just really got He's just he didn't perform well,

797
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: so like there was no way people were gonna juice

798
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: him up in the draft, like Durangelo Santcha and Treya

799
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: Savage threw so well, Chase Burns, all these other guys

800
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: that like there was no way Santucci was gonna be

801
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: able to eclipse any of those guys. But entering last

802
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: baseball season, like there was more talk of Santucci than

803
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: there was of some of these other guys, maybe not

804
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: Chee Burns, et cetera. But like he was up there

805
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: with those, he didn't perform to the point where people

806
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: were sold on him. And this is where he runs

807
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: an interesting thing on the pitching on that side where

808
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, like this guy wasn't great, but like

809
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: we see these subtle adjustments here, like let's get him

810
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: back to twenty three. You know, we'd have some track

811
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: record of success, but he just didn't have it right now.

812
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: So like how confident are we getting back to that point?

813
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: And for him it's really the slider, Like I had

814
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: a from a shape comp I don't. I don't go

815
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: like pure results, who's gonna be comp? I go more

816
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: like what is he throwing ways? It looked like reminds

817
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: me there like Andrew Heaney and specifically when he was

818
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: with the Dodgers in terms of this bullet lefty slider

819
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: not big sweet that works really well. It was kind

820
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: of like invisible down into rities and also worked for

821
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: as his lefties. Saint Ducie's slider reminds me from a

822
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: shape perspective a lot of that pitch. It's not super hard.

823
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: So I don't think like stuff malls are gonna love

824
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: this thing, but like he's had results on this thing

825
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: for so long that I struggle to see how it's

826
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: not gonna be successful in the majors. I'm unsure on

827
00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: role here. Is obviously some upside if they can get

828
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: him in more, we'll see, Like who the guy? Who

829
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: the guy I'm thinking of, George Clausen straight in from

830
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: the Philly City Angels. This dude has like one of

831
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: the more fun sliders in Miri League Baseball. But you

832
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: go back to like Jim Kwis is a good friend

833
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: for MV Pipeline, and that dude at the combine he

834
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: threw a combine pen in twenty three. I want to

835
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: say it was just literally looked like he was a

836
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: fourteen year old high school kid who couldn't find his

837
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: own and like he legitimately was so bad. And then

838
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: like last year, it was like, is that he's finding

839
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: the zone and it's like he's not walking anybody. So

840
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: like these things can turn really quickly, So I don't

841
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: mind the Mets bet here that like the slider is

842
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: really good, the fastball isn't terrible. He sits ninety four.

843
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: You know, we'll see if they get to kick a

844
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: villo or they just move towards another kind of pitch

845
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: or something. But I just think the slider's good enough,

846
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: and they're taking a gambler. They could play around with

847
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: something command whis to get him his zone. So yeah,

848
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: I like him. I think he's a He was a

849
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: good pick at the value of the Ottoma for sure.

850
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: Talking about a VLO, guy got to bring up our boy,

851
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: Ryan Lambert had him on the pod earlier in the year,

852
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: just to create human on and off the field. Guy

853
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: eight one hundred eggs. He raw eggs. He just drink drinking.

854
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: It's insane what he was going through. But the fun

855
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: thing about him is he throws one hundred and one

856
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: miles an hour. He throws absolute gas. And we know

857
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: from talking with him that the Mets are really getting

858
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: creative with him on the development side. They're doing a

859
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: lot of the similar stuff that Paul Skins has been doing.

860
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: They're trying to get him to learn a splinker. Like,

861
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things going on there. So how

862
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: do you what do you think about Ryan Lambert?

863
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: Is there anything you got? Yeah? So his agent is

864
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: this guy Mike Zimmerman, who it sounds like, you know,

865
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: Mark and I met at the Combined. Great dude, Like

866
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: just enjoy chatt baseball with him. It's really tapped in.

867
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: He hit Lambert and I'm like, sometimes you get agents

868
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: and Mike didn't do specifically, but they'll like pump you guys.

869
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, like you know, he's probably probably

870
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: like five to ten round. You know, I'm not entirely shut.

871
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: It's like, man, I get I'm in the first two

872
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: rounds of the draft. Like if this guy doesn't have

873
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: a shot to go too then like I'm not gonna

874
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: prep on him too much. But he told me about

875
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: Lambert and the thing that like sometimes we'll send you

876
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: like individual track man pitches. People do this all the time,

877
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: and it's like, well you get that thing, and it's like, okay,

878
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: controlled environment, not a major league baseball. That's why he's

879
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: ninety four twenty five inches of vertical break. No when

880
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: baseball's gonna throw the twenty five inches of vertical break.

881
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: But Lambert, those things he said me and were a

882
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: little more interesting because he was like ninety seven plus

883
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: and he had some vert and I was like, hmm,

884
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: even if that's controlled environment, this guy's ninety seven with

885
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: like twenty vert like I think maybe even if he

886
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: falls to like eighteen ish, that's great that average and

887
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: major League Baseball for an average release types around like

888
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: sixteen inches or so fifteen point eight. So I was like, Okay,

889
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued here because like you're telling me, like Villa

890
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: with shape is not something you run into a lot.

891
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: And then in the small sample I saw, I believe

892
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: it was down at saying Lucy like he was twenty

893
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: vertict ninety eight like that is that's pretty rare, Like

894
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: you don't run into this a lot. And again, even

895
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: if we assume some regression here as he jumps up

896
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: and uses the Major League Baseball like I like like

897
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: a p. Fairbanks style comp here where it's it's probably

898
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: more reliever. We'll see again if he starts, the'll push him,

899
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. That's not my perviewed judge, ye

900
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: what they want to do workload wise and stuff. But

901
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: it's a really good fastball, like this thing is.

902
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 3: Now.

903
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: The one thing I did notice, and I haven't texted

904
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: Mike about this, is that in the small amount of data,

905
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: I saw he's to me, I thought he was tipping

906
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: his slider because like a lot of the time you'll

907
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: see small release differentials and a lot of the time

908
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: I don't think that really matters. But like Lambert was

909
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: dropping verdict dropping and moving out horizontally like a good amount.

910
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: Like if you look at a release point plot, like

911
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: the pitches are separate between the slider and the fastball,

912
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: so in the same vein of like a Jonah Tong

913
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: Tongu's not tipping, but in the same vein like if

914
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 1: they're playing with a splnker and some other things. There's

915
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: gonna be another pitch shape here in this mix that

916
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: gets him to being relevant, you know, with the fastball alone,

917
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 1: Like I I like him as a reliever, Like maybe

918
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,760
Speaker 1: I'll say I project him as a reliever just because

919
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: not you get with that vert is really strong. So

920
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very intrigued by him. He might be like

921
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: a high rise late. Occasionally we run into like fun

922
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: relief prospects like Ben Joyce. But I remember, like Ken

923
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: Giles back in the day with the Phillies, a gradach prospect.

924
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: There's there's usually a few of these guys where it's

925
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: like Nah, he's a reliever, but like it's so good

926
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: that we might make him like a top one fifty,

927
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: top one hundred guy. Yeah, And I wonder whether Lambert

928
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: had like an outside shot of that. I think that'd

929
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: be a really good outcome for him, totally.

930
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 3: And he was a closer at Oklahoma, and we talked

931
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 3: to him. He exactly he relished in the closer role.

932
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 3: He loved being like he told us that he left great.

933
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 3: He coomes zen and get into the game and just

934
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 3: have like pure serenity and just strike killers out.

935
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: He's like, he really liked that. I don't even want

936
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: him to start.

937
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 3: Yes, close, But another guy I like in this draft.

938
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: Probably one of my favorite picks the Mets made was

939
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: Nate Dome at the Mississippi State, partially just because the

940
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 3: Mets every single year find a way to take a

941
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 3: Misissippi State Bulldog. It's happened. It's happened six times and

942
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 3: seven years, which is ridiculous. But he had a fastball

943
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 3: up to ninety nine miles an hour. He had the

944
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 3: fourth highest strikeout to walk ratio in Division One.

945
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: But he got hurt.

946
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 3: He missed a lot of the season. So is there

947
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 3: anything that you know about Dome, like about Dome, because

948
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 3: he kind of fits this mold that we're talking about

949
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 3: where you get someone who's a little bit down and

950
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 3: then bring him up a little bit.

951
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Dom was a guy that I know the

952
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: Dodgers were on to some extent to hear that he's fantastic.

953
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, and he was like I texted. I remember

954
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: texting someone in that organ just going like, could you

955
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: miss that you wanted? I love asking that question to

956
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: people who work on the draft because it's like then

957
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: you see, like, ooh, you got five he says, so

958
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: and said, will send me five names, and it's like,

959
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: or eave them go to one team and he's like, yeah,

960
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: screw that. They're using the same thing, you know, from

961
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: a model, projection standpoint whatever. But but yeah, I mean

962
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: there's a lot of the spot. I've had people say

963
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: like the spawn of Andrew Friedman, like Andrew, Yeah, the

964
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: prison of Baseball offs with the doctors, Like He's had

965
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: these disciples just like trickle out throughout baseball. And I

966
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: imagine there's some people in the Mets org from that

967
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: tree and the philosophy state the same. And I think

968
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: a lot of teams are starting to target very similar things.

969
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: Dom is like interesting because I just think he had

970
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: like reasonable fastball traits, Like you're looking for above average extension,

971
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 1: below average release, and then you're looking for some vert,

972
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: and he's got that. He's sat ninety four eighty five

973
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: mile prow slider eighty seven sat on the change of

974
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: an eighty mile prower curve to the data I had

975
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: on him. For me, the big carrying trade here is

976
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: just like it's an interesting fastball shape where it's like, okay,

977
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: hold the shape, you know progressed it was too playing again,

978
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: which is in this met sphere that seems like everything

979
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: is a little more arms side with some vert. So

980
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: I imagine they're gonna expand the mix out probably give

981
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: him some big breaking ball through a lot of strikes,

982
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: even though this most recent year I thought some of

983
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: his own date was pretty good, even though I think

984
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: he wasn't particularly strong from a walkstampoint, which is always

985
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: a weird disconnect to me of like, okay, were you

986
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 1: just like falling behind guys and giving yourself no shot

987
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 1: and then when you're competitive you're actually able to own it.

988
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: So he's just got some like baseline traits that I

989
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: think are good to work with. And it seems like

990
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: the Mets are good at iding Matt, So I don't

991
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: have anything super hard there. I don't have like this

992
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: stuff of like liking him as much as Santucci, but

993
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, if the Dodgers were on him and some

994
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: other teams were on him, and like the fastball shape

995
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: looks good, he's got a pair of breaking balls that

996
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: are decent. Like, yeah, I'm totally fine with being happy

997
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: with that pick. Yeah, two guys that you guys threw

998
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: to me. I forgot his first name. I feel I

999
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: apologize Lamfinger. He don't know what his first name is,

1000
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: Ethan Lamfner. This dude's shapes were weird. He everything he

1001
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: threw just lifted. So if you look at like a

1002
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: pitch plot, I know I'm learned out here, but like

1003
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: when you get drop on things that's like curveballs, depth, sliders,

1004
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: depth sweepers, et cetera. Everything, And his pitch plot was

1005
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: like above seven or eight inches. And I was like

1006
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: very confused because I expected him to be almost like

1007
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: a like a low arm submariner where everything's coming up.

1008
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: So it's impossible for like a Tyler Rogers to create depth.

1009
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: He's like he's throwing up so like that makes a

1010
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: lot of sense. Everything's verty for him, so to speak.

1011
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: And Lantherner had the same effect where it's like the

1012
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: cutter he was up here, the sweeper was like ten

1013
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: and ten. It was like really weird, and the fastball

1014
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: is kind of weird. And I was like, I don't

1015
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 1: understand why this guy can't create depth on anything he throws.

1016
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: And his throw, like you watch him throw wasn't as

1017
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: wacky as I thought it would be. So I've been

1018
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: meaning to send a text to someone in the Mets

1019
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: org about this and just be like what is going

1020
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: on there? Like is there's something about how his hands

1021
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: working to the ball that's just causing him to get

1022
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: behind everything? But I'm cool with that, Like I just

1023
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: like weird dudes like that, And I mean I think

1024
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: I have him sitting. Yeah, so I had him ninety

1025
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: six on the fastball ninety two and the cutter sweeper

1026
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: change too and everything, but again everything was lifted, so

1027
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: like I don't really know what that means from like

1028
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: a how are you going to a fair versus various

1029
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: handedness stuff hitter, But I'm intrigued the fact that like

1030
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: I see a lot of pitchplots and I look at

1031
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: the stuff for analyzing pictures and like, I don't see

1032
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: a lot of that a ton, So I'm in, like,

1033
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, Like he's got to putting the radar

1034
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: and be like, let me see what he's doing, you know,

1035
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: like is everything still really wacky with how he throws

1036
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: and how are the results? Small sample on him too specifically,

1037
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: which I always run into on these lower level guys,

1038
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: So I can't like be super confident and oh he

1039
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: needs to do this versus left he's better, et cetera.

1040
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: But release characteristics seem good thrown hard and just weird shapes.

1041
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 3: It's it's gonna be a real shame if somebody clips

1042
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 3: that that clip of you right there and saying I

1043
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 3: just like weird dudes, It's gonna be real, real horrible.

1044
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 3: So if someone takes how that puts out.

1045
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: That's gonna be a brand killer Jo.

1046
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 3: But Mark, I love anything else for Lance if don't

1047
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 3: have anything else.

1048
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, yeah, pushing stuffstack in YouTube specifically, Yeah,

1049
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: Lance birero Z should pop up same, Lance Birozi dot

1050
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: subsack dot com. I do picture notes in season. I

1051
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: also do props the clists in there. If you want

1052
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: to pay a little money, throw me some cash and

1053
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 1: YouTube stuff is fun. Definitely getting like pretty heavy with

1054
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: a lot of my topics, but I've been trying to

1055
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: trying to grow and be a little more generic, so

1056
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: hopefully I could appease the masses. Well, so satisfying to

1057
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: people who want.

1058
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 3: To talk about keep the keeps the best.

1059
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: It's so good.

1060
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 2: Make check out Lance's stuff in the description and go

1061
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: check out his YouTube channel. Lance thanks again for joining us,

1062
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: and we will catch you guys on the next episode.

1063
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 3: Peace Out, peace Out guys.