1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 2: It's the Lacest this morning. 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 3: Former President Donald Trump expected to announce his pick for 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 3: vice president at the rn C this week. Trump set 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 3: to address the convention on Thursday, with his VP pick 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 3: expected to be announced well before then. Joining us now 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 3: after the tragic events at the weekend, I'm pleased to 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 3: say is Ambassador John Bolton, a former national security advisor 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 3: and former Ambassador to the United Nations. Ambassador John Bolden, 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 3: thank you, sir for being with us once again. It's 11 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: good to catch up with you. So I want to 12 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 3: lean on your experience. You've been to events with the 13 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: former President Donald Trump. You've seen the degree of security 14 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 3: this provided. How surprised were you that something like this 15 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 3: could happen Saturday evening. 16 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 4: Well, it was obviously very surprising. You know, there's been 17 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 4: a lot of commentary on what went wrong, what the 18 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 4: mistakes were made. I think it was right for President 19 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 4: Biden to say he's going to set up an independent review. 20 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: You know, none. 21 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 4: Of us are experts just because we watch it on television. 22 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: I've been a protect tee. 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 4: I still am for various reasons, but that doesn't make 24 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 4: me an expert on peripheral control and things like that, 25 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 4: So I think we're fortunate that Trump was only wounded. 26 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 4: It's a tragedy that one of the spectators was killed. 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 4: But we need to do the review of this in 28 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 4: a calm way. I think do it quickly as well, 29 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 4: because there are already conspiracy theories about what happened on 30 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 4: Saturday that I think are loony tunes. But I don't 31 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 4: think they're going to go away until we have an 32 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 4: independent objective review. 33 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 5: Ambassador, we're going to be starting the rn C. It's 34 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 5: kicking off right after this assassination attempt. What kind of 35 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 5: message do you think the former president is going to 36 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 5: bring to the r and C because already in an 37 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 5: interview with the Washington Examiner, he says he's rewriting his 38 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 5: entire speech. 39 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 4: Well, he probably believed that when he said it. Whether 40 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 4: it turns out to be true is anybody's guests. Certainly, 41 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 4: the mood of the country, I think is such that 42 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 4: it would be the right thing to do to try 43 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 4: and calm partisan tempers down, and that's what he may 44 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 4: well do. Would also be to his electoral advantage. I 45 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 4: think he's the image of defiance that he gave when 46 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 4: he was shot and what he said since then puts 47 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 4: him in a very good position just to be coldly 48 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 4: analytical about it, and it would be I think in 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 4: his interest to have a message of conciliation. Now, whether 50 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 4: he's able to do that or I don't know, but 51 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 4: if you focus the argument on what's best for Donald Trump, 52 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 4: I think that is the answer that may be why 53 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 4: he does. 54 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,839 Speaker 5: You've said in the past you think the highest priority 55 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 5: for his VP pick is absolute loyalty to him, the man, 56 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 5: Donald Trump. Do you think following these events and the 57 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 5: fact that you said, you know, in cold analysis, what's 58 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 5: best for him is to talk about unity maybe you 59 00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 5: know the party in the country. Would it be to 60 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 5: pick someone more towards the center. 61 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 4: Well, Trump doesn't have a philosophy. He doesn't really do policy, 62 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 4: so for him, there is no left, right or center. 63 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 4: There's only Donald Trump at the center of the universe. 64 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 4: I think at this point it is still possible any 65 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 4: of the names that have been mentioned can be picked. 66 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 4: I don't think he's settled on a name a week ago. 67 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 4: I don't think it's changed since Saturday. I think this 68 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 4: is a constant matter reevaluation for him. Up until the 69 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 4: last minute. I always used to say that with Trump, 70 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 4: nothing is final until it's final, and then maybe not 71 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 4: even there. 72 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: Ambosador one of the historical correlate Larry's. A lot of 73 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: people have used for this as nineteen eighty one, an 74 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: attempted assassination on Ronald Reagan. His daughter wrote an op 75 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: ed in The New York Times over the weekend saying 76 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: that her father had believed that she'd been saved for 77 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: God for a reason, and that was to end the 78 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: Cold War. This feeling of emboldenment of foreign policy. Do 79 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: you think Trump will feel that same sense that he 80 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: now has a mandate for certain policies that he wants 81 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: to push through more forcefully should he end up being 82 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: the president. 83 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think we can say for sure. 84 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 4: I mean, it's obviously a shocking event to be at 85 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 4: a political rally, to be shot at, to be wounded, 86 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 4: to be in danger for some period of time, that 87 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 4: it has to have an effect on anybody. But Trump 88 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 4: has a remarkable gyroscope that although he has a short 89 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 4: attention span for many things, he has a fixed attention 90 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 4: span on himself. And I think that using this attempt 91 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 4: on his life as a way of proving his martyrdom 92 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 4: and the victim narrative that he has so successfully used politically, 93 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 4: I think he will use now. Whether that translates into 94 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 4: specific action if he's elected, I think is harder to say. 95 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 4: But will he use it politically to maximize his options 96 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 4: once elected? 97 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: Absolutely that martyrdom, Ambassador Bolton, you're describing something that seems 98 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: like it could fan the flames of division within this country. 99 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: How concerned are you about that that this is a 100 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: start of an era that's been bubbling back in the 101 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: surface for so long that it brings it to a 102 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: boiling point. 103 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,679 Speaker 4: Now, look, we've had boiling points in this country, almost 104 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 4: called the Civil War. 105 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: We're nowhere close to that rhetoric. 106 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 4: To the contrary, notwithstanding, I think Trump could cause a 107 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 4: lot of damage if he's reelected. 108 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: I've been saying that for several years now. 109 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 4: I do not think he is an existential threat to 110 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 4: our democracy, and I think it's in fact harmful to 111 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 4: say that. That's the kind of rhetoric I think we 112 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 4: could do without. I think Trump focuses on what he 113 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 4: wants to do, not on grand historical themes, and I 114 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 4: think his focus at the moment is very much on 115 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 4: how to use the upcoming convention to maximize the chances 116 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 4: he'll win in November. 117 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: I'm Bess Saday. You've questioned his fitness for office. You've 118 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 3: clearly just joined histinction between doing that and questioning whether 119 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 3: he is an extensional risk to democracy. I want to 120 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: understand his potential to unite this party. You are a Republican, 121 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 3: You've worked with Donald Trump, you worked with Bush, you 122 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 3: worked in the rank and presidency as well. What would 123 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 3: it take on Massada for Donald Trump to get you 124 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 3: behind him and unite this party? Is that even possible? 125 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 4: No, because I do think Trump is not fit to 126 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 4: be president. It's I don't wish ill to anybody, certainly 127 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 4: not to the innocent spectators who were killed and gravely wounded, 128 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 4: were to Donald Trump for what he was put through. 129 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 4: But that episode doesn't change my fundamental view of him. 130 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 4: Maybe he'll have a damascene conversion. 131 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 2: That's always possible. To redemption is a reality. 132 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 4: It can happen, but as of now, I don't see 133 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 4: that that's going to change anything. 134 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: I do think this event, I mean, I'm just being 135 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: cold blooded here. 136 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 4: This event will politically benefit Donald Trump, and we may 137 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 4: look back at the eight the presidential debate and now 138 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 4: the events of Saturday, and say this was the moment 139 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 4: when Biden's campaign trajectory went into a nosedive from which 140 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 4: it never escaped. 141 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 5: If you don't think he's fit to be president, is 142 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 5: there a VP pick that would assuage your concerns? 143 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 4: No, because we might still get four years of Donald Trump. 144 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 4: And I worry and I don't believe. I don't believe 145 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 4: the facts have changed about the concern that personal loyalty 146 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 4: to Trump, not loyalty to the country, not loyalty to 147 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 4: the constitution, loyalty to a man who told Mike Pence 148 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,239 Speaker 4: to violate his oath of office on January the sixth, 149 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 4: twenty twenty one. That will remain Trump's primary objective. So 150 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 4: we'll see who it is. But I worry that whoever 151 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 4: that person turns out to be, they'll have given the 152 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 4: wrong answer to that question. 153 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: Bassiday, you have a deep understanding of foreign policy and 154 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 3: international security, a long, long amount of experience on those issues. 155 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 3: Can we finish on that, Ambassador? How do you think 156 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 3: the adversaries, the enemies of this country will be viewing 157 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: the developments of the last couple of weeks, not just 158 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 3: the last weekend, but for the issues the sitting president 159 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 3: is facing as well. Ambassida, how are you thinking about 160 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 3: that at the moment? 161 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 4: Well, divisions within the American body politic are are a 162 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 4: tonic for foreign adversaries, and I think they're watching this 163 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 4: whole process very closely. 164 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: They know that the United. 165 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 4: States has a fixed amount of bandwidth at any given time. 166 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 4: We've got a war in Ukraine, We've got war in 167 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 4: the Middle East, We've got a very divisive political season underway, 168 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 4: and adversaries like Russia, China, Iran, North Korea are undoubtedly 169 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 4: thinking themselves, are there things we can do right now 170 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 4: to take advantage of this disarray. They'll follow it through 171 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 4: the campaign season, and I think that could be a 172 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 4: very vulnerable time, not necessarily for the United States directly, 173 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 4: but for friends and allies around the world. 174 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 3: Is there a part of the world you're more concerned, 175 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 3: perhaps an area and you're more concerned than others. 176 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 4: Well, I think the one area that we don't have 177 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 4: an actual conflict at the moment is the Indo Pacific 178 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: periphery around China. We've been concerned about Taiwan, the South 179 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,479 Speaker 4: China Sea, China's. 180 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: Land borders with Vietnam India. 181 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 4: I think if you're looking for a place where a 182 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 4: conflict could break out before November, it would be along 183 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 4: that periphery. 184 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 3: Ambassador, I appreciate your time this morning. Hopefully we can 185 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 3: do this again soon. Ambassador John Bolton Net on the 186 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: future of this particular presidency, looking back to the lost 187 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 3: presidency and talking about some of the issues on the horizon.