Speaker 1: As tom early in June for NBA fans, because the
Speaker 1: draft is now one day away.
Speaker 2: We're gonna get you at the speed on what teams need,
Speaker 2: absolutely need a good draft, what players to watch on
Speaker 2: draft night, Who the big sleepers are, who's gonna have
Speaker 2: a big impact next NBA season.
Speaker 1: But we also have a special guest later on in
Speaker 1: this show, a former GM of the Phoenix Suns, executive
Speaker 1: for the Boston Celtics, former International Scout Odyssey insider Ryan McDonough's.
Speaker 1: So everybody's putting out mocks. There's a million of them,
Speaker 1: but I'm not mocking like that's pointless. That's something for
Speaker 1: you to read, right, So we already know who the
Speaker 1: top three are, right, it's Chet probably go number two.
Speaker 1: It's Jabbari who really rolls up through his time at Auburn,
Speaker 1: and it's Paala from Duke. You don't know these names?
Speaker 1: What are you doing listening right? What are you doing?
Speaker 1: Chet Holmgritten from Gonzaga seven feet tall, slim reaper that
Speaker 1: he is one hundred and ninety five pounds, probably one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty five pounds, could be could be something
Speaker 1: between Christaps Porzingis and Kevin Durant Palo Ben Carroll unguardable
Speaker 1: six feet ten, two hundred and fifty pounds. He looks
Speaker 1: like a regular human being that has been like expanded
Speaker 1: three times the size of that, Like every proportion is correct,
Speaker 1: but he's just huge. And Jabari Smith interesting intriguing prospect.
Speaker 1: Can play the defensive side really well, can shoot the
Speaker 1: ball really well, and I think he'll work wherever he goes.
Speaker 1: That's all we're doing for the market. I'll give you
Speaker 1: some players to watch that are sleepers or wildcards later
Speaker 1: on in the show, but I think that what's most
Speaker 1: important are current NBA teams. Who's currently there and who
Speaker 1: needs to have an absolutely phenomenal draft night or agency
Speaker 1: including the draft, considering what they have available in order
Speaker 1: for this franchise to move forward. We've got teams that
Speaker 1: are in inflection points people and decisions need to be made.
Speaker 1: All of these teams we're going to talk about are
Speaker 1: teams that have draft capital. We're not talking about teams
Speaker 1: like the Lakers or the Nets that are at crossroads
Speaker 1: as well. We're talking about teams with lottery picks. Who's
Speaker 1: going to be able to maximize their lottery picks with
Speaker 1: the situation that they're in number one for me, and
Speaker 1: this is in no particular order because I don't want
Speaker 1: to be biased, right, So I'm going to say one
Speaker 1: team before the team that I think is number one
Speaker 1: needs to kill the draft. Number one on this list
Speaker 1: not most important team, but teams whom for this is
Speaker 1: a very important draft. Charlotte Hornet's number one. This team
Speaker 1: needs a good draft even more now given that Kenny
Speaker 1: Atkinson was supposed to take the job as head coach,
Speaker 1: one of the best talent developers in the league, and
Speaker 1: he abandoned ship at the very last moment. You know
Speaker 1: that there's a franchise in disarray when you had a
Speaker 1: coach and he backed out and said it was for
Speaker 1: family reasons, like he's staying in Golden State, and rumors
Speaker 1: are it's because he wasn't allowed to bring his own assistance.
Speaker 1: I even heard some little side jokes from other NBA
Speaker 1: insiders where they're like, yeah, some owners in certain NBA teams,
Speaker 1: they some won't even let their coaches choose their own assistance.
Speaker 1: They didn't say who was, but I already heard that rumor,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's obviously what they're talking about.
Speaker 1: So what does this mean for a team with two
Speaker 1: first rounders this year? If MJ can't keep his hands
Speaker 1: out of the cookie jar Man, I don't know, right
Speaker 1: is he gonna get involved again? Are thirteen and fifteen
Speaker 1: gonna be MJ's picks or they're gonna be Mitch Kupcheck's
Speaker 1: pitch They chose James Bookknight last year. James Booknight at
Speaker 1: thirteen again, I'll just say this, he didn't perform up
Speaker 1: to the expectations that you would think a thirteen pick
Speaker 1: would make. There's a lot of impact guys defensively, offensively
Speaker 1: that came in later than James Brooknight and really contributed
Speaker 1: to the team. A la Herb Jones. Hayward's gotta be
Speaker 1: moved if you want to max out Miles Bridges, and
Speaker 1: that probably means sending one of your firsts along the way, right,
Speaker 1: So you've got to probably send first to move Hayward
Speaker 1: in order to max Miles Bridges. Booknight was your lottery pick.
Speaker 1: He didn't turn out. You got thirteen and fifteen again.
Speaker 1: You need to figure it out. You've been in the
Speaker 1: play in two years now. You had the worst defense
Speaker 1: in the league. You don't even have a coach before
Speaker 1: the draft. I don't even know what kind of coaching
Speaker 1: style you're gonna have. There's a lot of questions about
Speaker 1: whether Mike dan Toni is gonna come in. Okay, one
Speaker 1: of the worst defenses in the league, can't protect the rim,
Speaker 1: Mike D'Antoni. One of these things do not fit like
Speaker 1: the other. If you're trying to fix that, I don't
Speaker 1: know what you're doing right. You're probably gonna have to
Speaker 1: use thirteen or fifteen to get rid of Hayward. So
Speaker 1: means whoever you get at fifteen needs to bring value
Speaker 1: to me the number one guy that they can get.
Speaker 1: I scan through all the drafts, all the mocks, all
Speaker 1: the players, all that number one player that Charlotte Hornet
Speaker 1: fans should be rooting for them to select, and maybe
Speaker 1: they keep both, maybe they keep thirteen and fifteen and
Speaker 1: they figure out a way to move Hayward Without those
Speaker 1: You need Mark Williams from Duke need them great rim protector,
Speaker 1: Probably a more mature, smart, smarter, higher IQ immediate impact
Speaker 1: guy than Rob Williams. He's like a smarter, more mature
Speaker 1: Rob Williams seven footer can protect the rim, and I
Speaker 1: think that makes the most sense, you could probably get
Speaker 1: him at fifteen, because you know that Cleveland at fourteen
Speaker 1: isn't selecting another big man. If you end up keeping
Speaker 1: number thirteen, I could see them going after a perimeter
Speaker 1: player as well. If you could get say a Jeremy
Speaker 1: Soshan if he falls down there, I like that. If
Speaker 1: you can get a Dison Daniels if he falls there,
Speaker 1: find some guy that can defend on the perimeter, because
Speaker 1: right now you ain't got it like that. You got
Speaker 1: Kelly Ubray and you got Hayward and it's just not
Speaker 1: working out. The most important team that needs to kill
Speaker 1: the draft, in my opinion, is Portland. Yeah. Yeah, not
Speaker 1: because it's my team either. It's not because of that,
Speaker 1: because this team says they want to contend. Right now,
Speaker 1: you're talking about a team that's got top seven, seventh
Speaker 1: pick in the draft. Literally, I read an article so
Speaker 1: disrespectful they said the only two good teams that are
Speaker 1: drafting in the lottery are San Antonio and I forget
Speaker 1: the other one, but it wasn't Portland, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean? We went to the Western Conference
Speaker 1: finals a couple of years ago. We try to tank.
Speaker 1: This team tanked on purpose, right, Okay, So they need
Speaker 1: to hit the draft out of the park. They need
Speaker 1: to come out the blocks. It's moving pieces are a
Speaker 1: draft night, moving the pick altogether. There is an urgency.
Speaker 1: They have promised Dan they are building a contender and
Speaker 1: retooling around him. They can't fuck around and get in
Speaker 1: a project. What do you mean, like Dave's gonna be
Speaker 1: like you just drafted shaded sharp. Okay, Like when is
Speaker 1: he going to contribute? Because I'm thirty in my mid thirties.
Speaker 1: Portland needs viable pieces yesterday. So I don't think it's
Speaker 1: Caljun Blevins that's gonna contribute yesterday, right. Joe cronin the GM,
Speaker 1: the good thing about him is he's valuing length athleticism.
Speaker 1: He said he values the ability to play multiple positions
Speaker 1: and guard multiple positions, defend on the perimeters, which everything
Speaker 1: shoot threes. That's a good start in terms of how
Speaker 1: you think about guys. My favorite player at number seven,
Speaker 1: Benedict Mathern. I love him. I've always loved him since
Speaker 1: the beginning of the season. Since October, I've been all
Speaker 1: up in his DMS, being like, come to Portland, Come
Speaker 1: to Portland, Come to Portland. He shot up the board
Speaker 1: in the low double digits, from the low double digits
Speaker 1: now to the top five pick, so I don't even
Speaker 1: know if he's going to be there. He might go
Speaker 1: to Detroit. I have no idea. He might go to Indiana.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Based on Joe Cronin's comments, I can
Speaker 1: see this team either taking maybe a Dyson Daniels. I
Speaker 1: could also see them taking Shadon Sharp, even though he's
Speaker 1: a project, just because he's long, and maybe they're lying.
Speaker 1: Maybe they are gonna shop Dame. I have no idea,
Speaker 1: but Dy Dyson Daniels is long, he's athletic, he has
Speaker 1: great court vision, he can pass like Josh Giddy, he
Speaker 1: can defend, he can shoot. As for Shaden, he could
Speaker 1: end up being a superstar. A lot of chatter also
Speaker 1: around Portland trading number seven for og Ananobi and some pieces,
Speaker 1: maybe also trying to get that user twenty twenty five
Speaker 1: first round pick from the Bucks along with the pick
Speaker 1: in the fifties to try to make a three team
Speaker 1: trade work where you get og Ananoby and John Collins.
Speaker 1: That would be something, wouldn't it. That would be something.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of recent chatter that Portland's keeping
Speaker 1: their seventh pick. Again. We're going to talk to Ryan
Speaker 1: mcgunnah about this later on in the show. But teams
Speaker 1: are out here lying recklessly, so that could be very
Speaker 1: easily a lot. I could see that being something that
Speaker 1: they're just taking people off the scent and trying to
Speaker 1: make it sound like they have their pick in mind
Speaker 1: so that that pick seems more valuable to other teams.
Speaker 1: Another team that I think needs to really kill this
Speaker 1: is the Wizards. Huge offseason for the Wizards, much like Boston,
Speaker 1: they haven't been able to find that elusive point guard
Speaker 1: after John Wall got injured and then got shipped away.
Speaker 1: They tried out Spencer Dinwoodie. He wasn't really a point guard.
Speaker 1: They tried out Ish Smith, They tried out Raoul Nettle,
Speaker 1: they tried out Cassius Winston, they tried out Aaron Holliday.
Speaker 1: The list goes on and on. They tried out Bradley Beal.
Speaker 1: Is Bradley Beial a point guard for the Wizards of
Speaker 1: the Future. I don't think so. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I don't think so. A lot of chatter right now
Speaker 1: about the Wizards moving up to the number four spot
Speaker 1: for Jade and Ivy or trading three first rounds of
Speaker 1: this tenth pick and two first in the future for
Speaker 1: Sga or John Tamrie. What are all those guys have
Speaker 1: in common. They're not really point guards. They're not other
Speaker 1: combo guards their score first guards. Pair that with what
Speaker 1: Tommy Shepherd said yesterday during whatever media availability it was.
Speaker 1: He said, Listen, I'm traditional. I like point guards to
Speaker 1: set the offense and try to get everyone involved and
Speaker 1: move the ball. Because you see the results when we
Speaker 1: move the ball, we're pretty good. Let me ask you this,
Speaker 1: which three of those is setting the table? Which three
Speaker 1: of those is getting everybody the ball? You think Jade
Speaker 1: and Ivy's passing the ball. No, Jade and Ivy doesn't
Speaker 1: even know how to pass the ball when he's driving
Speaker 1: and kicking effectively.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: So to me, what the wizard should do is they
Speaker 1: should probably trade that pick for a piece. Go after
Speaker 1: Tias Jones, trade the number ten pick to Memphis, try
Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get something like that. Also,
Speaker 1: go after Jalen Brunson in free agency. If you could
Speaker 1: get a Johnny Davis, maybe sit him and then go
Speaker 1: after Jalen Brunson or Tias Jones. And even here's a
Speaker 1: little crazy thought because he'll be available in December. In
Speaker 1: terms of playing, Ricky Rubio makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 1: Ricky Rubio is a perfect playmaker, set the table, get
Speaker 1: everybody involved, can put up thirty. He and Bradley Build
Speaker 1: together if Ricky Rubio is fully healthy, and I know
Speaker 1: that's a big if, they would be really good together.
Speaker 1: And now you've got to ask two a big issue
Speaker 1: of course of what is Bradley Build going to do.
Speaker 1: How this draft ends up, what they end up doing
Speaker 1: in free agency will absolutely play a factor in how
Speaker 1: Bradley beul sees and views the future of this franchise.
Speaker 1: He and you don't need to do much. You don't
Speaker 1: really because he already is so delusional because he wants
Speaker 1: to believe. He wants to believe that the Wizards will
Speaker 1: compete for a championship while he's in his prime. The
Speaker 1: answer that everyone, including Wizards fans know is that it's
Speaker 1: never going to happen. Bradley Beal will never be on
Speaker 1: a contender in the District of Columbia. Never not going
Speaker 1: to happen. Doesn't matter what happens. You add, cous and
Speaker 1: this and that does not matter. Ricky Rubio cous Bial
Speaker 1: not a contender, and he's a loyal dude. His loyalty
Speaker 1: is creating a pair of rose colored delusional glasses about
Speaker 1: what this team can do if Beal and when Beal
Speaker 1: re signs for the max contract. Now you got a
Speaker 1: whole other set of problems because you're paying them sixty
Speaker 1: seven million dollars a year and you're trying to build
Speaker 1: a winner, just like Portland trying to keep Dame happy.
Speaker 1: If he tests the waters and head somewhere else, much
Speaker 1: easier scenario. You sign and trade him, get a bunch
Speaker 1: of picks, get some little young assets, and it's a
Speaker 1: full on rebuild. You know the direction of your franchise
Speaker 1: right now. You're trying to do two things at once,
Speaker 1: which is lie to Bradley Beal and tell him it's
Speaker 1: a contender, kind of make them happy and appease them
Speaker 1: while simultaneously collecting young assets. Some mocks have the Wizards
Speaker 1: taking Johnny Davis at ten. I don't hate that, but again,
Speaker 1: it would not shock me if Tommy Sheppard made another
Speaker 1: big splashy move on Draft Day like he did with
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook, moving him for all those pieces KCP, who's
Speaker 1: another team that needs to do something Kings. Kings is
Speaker 1: at a crossroads. They have a very desirable pick at
Speaker 1: number four, but the luck or unlock of the draw
Speaker 1: makes this draft a three player race. Jabari from Auburn,
Speaker 1: Chet from Gonzaga, and Paolo from Duke. The best players
Speaker 1: remaining happen to be guards, which is exactly what the
Speaker 1: Sacramento Kings keep drafting and then having to figure out
Speaker 1: how to play them all. So the issue is do
Speaker 1: the Kings do the whole best available thing and then
Speaker 1: take a guard like they've done before and take Ivy
Speaker 1: or do they get this NBA ready made player in
Speaker 1: Keegan Murray, a forward who has less upside. Somebody said
Speaker 1: to me last night, which is exactly what I've been
Speaker 1: telling you, Brock, that Keegan Murray seems like Kuzma in
Speaker 1: terms of his upside if Kyle Kuzma and I think
Speaker 1: that's a big ass reach, like Keegan Murray will never
Speaker 1: let me just say this. I'll stay on I'll put
Speaker 1: my stamp on this, and I don't like to say
Speaker 1: what players can be and who they can become if
Speaker 1: they get developed. But I think that there is almost
Speaker 1: less than a zero percent chance that Keegan Murray becomes
Speaker 1: as good as Kyle Kuzma. And if your abs exactly
Speaker 1: and if your upside doesn't even reach, because that's they've
Speaker 1: got the same body comps, they've got the same style
Speaker 1: of play. Kuzma is absolutely a better athletic specimen than
Speaker 1: our man Keegan Murray. In my opinion, He's also a
Speaker 1: little bit old. And and our man Kyle Kuzma wasn't
Speaker 1: a top five pick. He was drafted in the twenties,
Speaker 1: wasn't he. And listen, maybe it was because Kus went
Speaker 1: to Utah and Iowa was this force. But holy shit,
Speaker 1: if you're if your absolute maximum ceiling is Kus, I
Speaker 1: don't know necessarily if I'm taking in top box welcoming
Speaker 1: into this show. We've got our guy, Ryan McDonough. We're
Speaker 1: gonna be asking him some of the inside baseball questions
Speaker 1: on the draft. I have not spoken ever to Ryan,
Speaker 1: so I'm happy to meet you. I'm super excited. Former
Speaker 1: GM the Phoenix Suns spent a decade working for the
Speaker 1: Boston Celtics, where he was everything from an international scout
Speaker 1: to assistant GM to my man Danny Trader, Danny Ainge
Speaker 1: currently our Odyssey Basketball inside. That's where I'm from. Odyssey
Speaker 1: Basketball Insider cannot wait to ask him a ton of questions.
Speaker 1: How are you doing, sir, Hey.
Speaker 3: Hey, Tristan, I'm doing well.
Speaker 1: I want to because there's a lot of people doing MOX.
Speaker 1: I'm not really too interested in like debating who's gonna
Speaker 1: go where or who's the best fit wear. I'm really
Speaker 1: interested in the process of drafting and just kind of
Speaker 1: how it all works from someone who's been there and
Speaker 1: has been there with a bunch of different teams. First
Speaker 1: and foremost, there's this big debate about team needs versus
Speaker 1: best available. What is your stance on that, and is
Speaker 1: that a trend that sort of changes over time? And
Speaker 1: what are some examples of ways that door one works
Speaker 1: and doesn't work and door two works and doesn't work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really good question.
Speaker 4: I think the first thing you have to ask as
Speaker 4: a franchise is if player X in the draft is better,
Speaker 4: and he probably won't be better immediately, obviously these things
Speaker 4: take some time. But if he has a chance to
Speaker 4: be better than anybody on our roster, we should probably
Speaker 4: draft player X because we can move the other guys
Speaker 4: on the roster. You know, if he's that good, if
Speaker 4: he has a chance to be a special, transcendent player. Now,
Speaker 4: now there are some arguments the other way. I mean,
Speaker 4: one of the things that we get criticized for, and
Speaker 4: I certainly had some involvement with, was DeAndre eight and
Speaker 4: with the number one pick in Phoenix. Thought process at
Speaker 4: the time organizationally right or wrong. And keep in mind
Speaker 4: I was fired the following preseason, so there may have
Speaker 4: been some disagreement.
Speaker 1: But was it.
Speaker 4: We had a young backcourt star and Devin Booker offensively gifted,
Speaker 4: you struggled a little bit defensively and rebounding.
Speaker 3: He certainly improved in those.
Speaker 4: Areas, But the thought process was devon in the backcourt
Speaker 4: eight and in the front court mckail Bridges, who we
Speaker 4: later acquired on the wing. You know, people can nitpick,
Speaker 4: and they certainly have about the Luca donsage versus eight
Speaker 4: and pick, and I understand that and I take responsibility
Speaker 4: for that. Obviously, the Suns were in the finals a
Speaker 4: year ago and won sixty four games. So that's why
Speaker 4: so hard Tristan. That's where I think people on the
Speaker 4: fan side, or even some of the media side, don't
Speaker 4: realize as much you were picking for a team. You know,
Speaker 4: you're not just picking in a vacuum individually. And when
Speaker 4: people go back and do redrafts and things like that,
Speaker 4: the context and the roster at the time is important
Speaker 4: because you know, the reality is, once we get in
Speaker 4: October and training camp starts, you have to hand the
Speaker 4: coach the ball and say, figure out how to play
Speaker 4: these guys and put together a functional team. So you know,
Speaker 4: generally speaking, it's the most talented player you'd want that,
Speaker 4: but there is some context and nuance to that as well.
Speaker 1: I wasn't planning on asking you this, but I think
Speaker 1: one of the greatest steals in that draft was mckil Bridges.
Speaker 1: Can you can you give me just a little bit
Speaker 1: of insight into how that all went down, if outside
Speaker 1: of what's already kind of been written about.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a really unusual deal, Trista, just because
Speaker 4: Philadelphia seventy six ers, who had the tenth pick, drafted
Speaker 4: Bridges with the intention of keeping him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was there for that that at Barclays.
Speaker 4: Okay, and you know mckhill's history and what it was
Speaker 4: like at Barclay's. His mother worked for the franchise. He
Speaker 4: won multiple national championships of Villanova. He's a Philadelphia kid,
Speaker 4: and it seems on paper, at least to me, like
Speaker 4: a very good fit between Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid.
Speaker 4: But Philly was big game hunting, I think, and we
Speaker 4: had a draft pick, a future first round pick that
Speaker 4: we got in twenty fifteen for Goran Dragics from Miami
Speaker 4: that was unprotected did and then we had the sixteenth
Speaker 4: pick in the twenty eighteen draft as well. So it's
Speaker 4: a bit unusual because, you know, I called Philly's front office.
Speaker 4: We were chasing picks up in that range. Because one
Speaker 4: of the things that I think people don't talk about
Speaker 4: enough Christa is there are tiers in gaps in the draft.
Speaker 4: And what I mean by that is, you know, the
Speaker 4: value of each player to the next is not always
Speaker 4: even right. Sometimes it is close. Sometimes there's a gap
Speaker 4: between players. Sometimes there's a gap between tiers of players.
Speaker 4: So that's what teams do. It's there's like most teams
Speaker 4: use a tiering system rather than let's just rank them
Speaker 4: one to six, year one hundred or whatever. So with us,
Speaker 4: we felt the group of players in that late lottery,
Speaker 4: you know, say eight to fourteen range we're going to
Speaker 4: be significantly better than who was available or we thought
Speaker 4: was going to be available to sixteen. So anyway, so
Speaker 4: long story relatively short, Philly drafted Bridges. I was on
Speaker 4: the phone with them, say is there anything we can do?
Speaker 4: They said no at the time, and said, okay, we're
Speaker 4: coming back at sixteen. We like Bridges a lot, we'd
Speaker 4: give you some value, we'd give you sixteen plus and
Speaker 4: we can discuss what the plus is. But are there
Speaker 4: players you know you as are potentially interested in and
Speaker 4: they said yeah, one in particular. Obviously they didn't tell
Speaker 4: us who it was. So fast forward to fourteen fifteen,
Speaker 4: picking that range, we re engage with them and zier Smith,
Speaker 4: the Ford out of Texas Tech, was still on the
Speaker 4: board who they liked. Obviously, Zayre's had some injury issues
Speaker 4: and other health issues that have derailed his career. But
Speaker 4: that plus the future Miami pick, that was how that
Speaker 4: deal got done. And this is funny in hindsight, especially
Speaker 4: given how well mckel's done and how well the team
Speaker 4: has done Trista. But I wasn't really looking forward to
Speaker 4: calling the kid his mom, who were excited being in Philly.
Speaker 4: His mom works for the franchise and saying, I know
Speaker 4: you thought you were going to stay at home, but
Speaker 4: what do you think about heading a couple thousand miles
Speaker 4: to the southwest and Phoenix.
Speaker 1: That's wild. Another thing I think that people are interested
Speaker 1: in is and I guess the context around it, are
Speaker 1: players like Shaden Sharp players like Jaden Hardy? So two
Speaker 1: different paths, right? Both of those guys were consensus lottery picks.
Speaker 1: Shaden doesn't end up playing a minute for Kentucky. Jaden
Speaker 1: Hardy goes to the G League. Shaden Sharp's kind of
Speaker 1: like a wild card in terms of his draft hasn't
Speaker 1: hasn't fell I mean we're not really sure. Maybe he's
Speaker 1: top five, maybe he slips to mid maybe post lottery,
Speaker 1: but Jayden Hardy seems to have fallen off a cliff
Speaker 1: in terms of consensus draft picks. Should players that are
Speaker 1: already deemed Patrick Baldwin Junior is another one deemed to
Speaker 1: be a lottery pick. Is there some sort of debate
Speaker 1: now in terms of whether they should actually play in
Speaker 1: college or go to the G League or go to
Speaker 1: the Shaden Sharp path?
Speaker 4: Well, I speak from a former executive's perspective, I think
Speaker 4: they should play somewhere. I think it's one thing to
Speaker 4: try to manipulate draft stock and you know, potentially hide,
Speaker 4: you know, things like that. But at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, is you know Tristan. In fact, in just
Speaker 4: a couple of weeks they're going to be off on
Speaker 4: a court in Las Vegas with ESPN and NBA TV
Speaker 4: and all these groups there, and they're going to have
Speaker 4: to perform. So I think, especially as a team, taking
Speaker 4: a year off and not playing is not something I
Speaker 4: would advise.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: I really like what the NBA has done with the
Speaker 4: JU League Ignite. That was one of my criticisms of
Speaker 4: the league of things I think the league could have
Speaker 4: done better earlier instead of letting and I'm going back
Speaker 4: aways here, but instead of letting Brandon Jennings go play
Speaker 4: in Italy and Emmanuel Moodier go play in China recently
Speaker 4: LaMelo Ball go play in Australia. You know, a lot
Speaker 4: of US executives in the league were saying, why don't
Speaker 4: we keep these guys here? It's better from a fan
Speaker 4: and marketing perspective, it's better for the players developmentally, it's
Speaker 4: easier to recruit and evaluate them. And this is what
Speaker 4: the players want those guys that you know, eighteen nineteen
Speaker 4: years old didn't want to go live overseas by themselves
Speaker 4: and things like that. So I bring it up. I
Speaker 4: think the league's done a terrific job with the G
Speaker 4: League ignite. Just look at last year's draft. I believe
Speaker 4: they had two of the top seven books. Jalen Green,
Speaker 4: who I think is going to be a star among
Speaker 4: the scoring leaders in the NBA someday. And then Jonathan
Speaker 4: kaminga who you know, talented young developmental player for the Warriors,
Speaker 4: got some run in the playoffs on the NBA champion
Speaker 4: and this year, and Daniels will be another lottery pick.
Speaker 4: So I think it's you know, it's good to have options.
Speaker 4: You know, Shading sharp situation was unique. And the final
Speaker 4: I guess point I'll make on Shade and trist is
Speaker 4: that he is the kind of player as an executive
Speaker 4: that keeps you up at night.
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is it scares you to.
Speaker 4: Take him because you don't have a body of work,
Speaker 4: and it also scares you to pass on him because
Speaker 4: of the talent. You know, he's talented enough. His highlight
Speaker 4: film is incredible that that kid can end up being
Speaker 4: the best pick in the draft. But that's why it's
Speaker 4: scary and hard to be an executive at this point
Speaker 4: of being impossible to say either way where his career
Speaker 4: ends up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Drey and I would imagine that as a
Speaker 1: GM job, security makes that decision making tree a little
Speaker 1: bit more complex. I'm curious, why do some guys skyrocket
Speaker 1: after the tournament has has been over and we've gotten
Speaker 1: through the combine, we've gotten through team workouts, so it
Speaker 1: seems like nothing's really happened, right, and you got take
Speaker 1: a guy like Mathern. Mathern was like in the tim
Speaker 1: is like eleven to fifteen range and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, now even though he looked awesome at Arizona,
Speaker 1: went to the tournament, looked good there too, to go,
Speaker 1: why do some guys fall significantly? And why do some
Speaker 1: guys skyrocket?
Speaker 4: Really good question, and that's one of the things where
Speaker 4: as evaluators you have to remind yourself and keep going
Speaker 4: back to the film because seeing at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, the games are a little bit different college
Speaker 4: or international versus the NBA, but it's still five on
Speaker 4: five basketball, and after the guy season's over, he's not
Speaker 4: really playing five on five basketball. He's doing the individually.
Speaker 4: You know, they do a little five on five there.
Speaker 4: But the recent trend, which is unfortunate as the top
Speaker 4: players don't play there in the five on five action,
Speaker 4: and then the workouts, a lot of them, especially for
Speaker 4: the top prospects now are individual one on zero. So
Speaker 4: that's one of the things as an executive you have
Speaker 4: to manage expectations. Frankly, it can be really dangerous, especially
Speaker 4: when the people who don't do this year round, like
Speaker 4: your coaches, your head coach in particular, if he has
Speaker 4: a strong voice, strong personality, and your owner especially see
Speaker 4: a guy in an individual workout or you know, as
Speaker 4: you know, truest to anybody can one hour workout can
Speaker 4: look great or look horrible. It's not really reflective of
Speaker 4: who they are. But they can just have a great
Speaker 4: day or horrible day. That's just you know, human nature.
Speaker 4: So that's why you have to rely on your process.
Speaker 4: That's why you have to go back to the film
Speaker 4: and watch them playing games, and then also you know,
Speaker 4: bake in some of the off season stuff with the
Speaker 4: combine with the individual workouts and hope you make the
Speaker 4: right decision.
Speaker 3: But to answer your question. That is why.
Speaker 4: And I always can't get a kick out of when
Speaker 4: somebody says guy's stock is rising or falling, or this
Speaker 4: or that. Well, in reality, it hasn't gone anywhere. Nothing
Speaker 4: has happened till tomorrow night. It's just you know, you know,
Speaker 4: media articles and things like that seem to manipulate players
Speaker 4: up and down. The teams just set their boards probably
Speaker 4: today as far as who they're going to draft, So
Speaker 4: anything that happened before today is I don't say irrelevant,
Speaker 4: but I think you know, it gets more traction on
Speaker 4: the media side than it does when you're working for
Speaker 4: a team.
Speaker 1: Wait, so the draft board gets created only the day
Speaker 1: before the draft.
Speaker 4: Usually do a pretty late you know, probably the week
Speaker 4: of the draft. I'd be surprised if any teams did
Speaker 4: it well before this week because as you look around
Speaker 4: the league, teams are still working out players as recently
Speaker 4: as you know, Monday or Tuesday. I don't think we
Speaker 4: have any you know, on Wednesdays, we sit here about
Speaker 4: forty eight hours see me, twenty four hours before the draft.
Speaker 4: And the NBA does want the players to come to
Speaker 4: New York earlier now to do the media circuit and
Speaker 4: be available prior to draft night. But yeah, when when
Speaker 4: I was in Boston, in particular because the proximity to
Speaker 4: New York City, the draft is you know, either Madison
Speaker 4: Square Gardener now the Barclay Center in Brooklyn, we would
Speaker 4: try to get guys in Wednesday morning, I mean the
Speaker 4: day before the draft and say, look, we know you're
Speaker 4: headed to the Northeast. We you know, we have to
Speaker 4: do some recruitment. We love your guy, get him in here.
Speaker 4: It will be the last workout. We'll take good care
Speaker 4: of them. We won't keep them long. We just want
Speaker 4: to see them one more time and then we'll get
Speaker 4: them on the shuttle down to New York, you know,
Speaker 4: to be available for the draft. So that's why teams wait.
Speaker 4: And then also the medical piece of at the intel,
Speaker 4: you want to go over that with your trainers, doctors,
Speaker 4: people like that one more time, Tristed, just to make sure,
Speaker 4: because that's the other thing that keeps you up a night.
Speaker 4: One of the things as an executive, you draft a
Speaker 4: guy who's not medically sound, he breaks down. That's probably
Speaker 4: one of the quicker ways to get fired if you
Speaker 4: if you drafted somebody, especially if you should have known
Speaker 4: and you didn't do your job as far as knowing
Speaker 4: whether the guy was medically fit or not.
Speaker 1: You mentioned ownership and a bunch of different voices in
Speaker 1: the room. Can you kind of highlight just what it's
Speaker 1: like on draft night in a war room, all of
Speaker 1: the different people that are sounding off and kind of
Speaker 1: what your experience is like for people who haven't really
Speaker 1: had insight to that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's certainly different with different franchises. I did probably
Speaker 4: ten or eleven drafts in Boston and then five or
Speaker 4: six in Phoenix. You know, ideally, what you'd want is
Speaker 4: the top decision makers in the room. You're head of basketball,
Speaker 4: whether the president or GM his or her, you know,
Speaker 4: top lieutenants, and then same with the head coach. You know,
Speaker 4: the top men and women who work under the head coach,
Speaker 4: and then your owner.
Speaker 3: And really that's it.
Speaker 4: I mean, you don't want a lot of, you know,
Speaker 4: theatrics and things like that. A lot of teams have
Speaker 4: draft parties in both places in Boston and Phanaco did
Speaker 4: a good job of keeping that separate because you know,
Speaker 4: you have to concentrate and be prepared to pivot for
Speaker 4: trades like the one we just discussed from Michel bridges.
Speaker 4: You know, you have to be prepared obviously to really
Speaker 4: do anything. And what I mean by that is you
Speaker 4: want to move up in the draft, Do you want
Speaker 4: to move down in the draft? Do you want to
Speaker 4: move out of the draft. Do you want to trade
Speaker 4: the pick for a player? Do you want to trade
Speaker 4: the pick for a future pick? You know, all that
Speaker 4: happens in real time and is fluid, and then you also,
Speaker 4: even as the draft is going, sometimes have to be
Speaker 4: prepared in case there's a slider, so to think, you know,
Speaker 4: a guy you didn't think would be there, all of
Speaker 4: a sudden, you know, gravity sets in, the guy starts
Speaker 4: coming down, the players, nervous, as agents calling you, and
Speaker 4: then you have to kind of go through your process
Speaker 4: to make sure you're prepared, you know, if he's on
Speaker 4: the board when it comes up. So really, the most
Speaker 4: important people generally are the head of basketball, the head coach,
Speaker 4: and the owner. And you know, the ownership involvement depends
Speaker 4: on the franchise and how involved they're uninvolved that guy
Speaker 4: wants to be.
Speaker 1: How how many or what percentage of NBA teams have
Speaker 1: extremely a vocal and hands on owners during draft night, I'd.
Speaker 3: Say a growing percentage.
Speaker 4: Honestly, I think as franchise values escalate and some new
Speaker 4: money comes into the league, you know, you know, a
Speaker 4: lot of tech and a younger group of owners. I
Speaker 4: guess I think some you know, talking to guys who
Speaker 4: have done the job longer than I have. You know,
Speaker 4: some of the old guard owners frankly wouldn't come around
Speaker 4: for draft night. They just you know, get get a
Speaker 4: call or you send them an email maybe a fax
Speaker 4: back in the day and say, here are the guys
Speaker 4: we're looking at.
Speaker 3: You know, you try to prep them for we might
Speaker 3: take this guy or that guy. Okay, it sounds good.
Speaker 4: That is getting you know, less and less standard, I guess,
Speaker 4: so they're more involved. So that's one of the challenges,
Speaker 4: you know, from a front office perspective or a coaching perspective,
Speaker 4: I think from any job, right managing up, managing the
Speaker 4: boss and his expectations. But yeah, I don't think that's
Speaker 4: a trend that's going anywhere. Let me put it this way.
Speaker 4: When the average franchise is selling for one and a
Speaker 4: half to two plus billion dollars and guys right to
Speaker 4: check at that level, I think they're going to want
Speaker 4: to continue to be involved.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting, especially considering I talked to somebody within
Speaker 1: the Golden State organization and I asked them and I said,
Speaker 1: why do you guys consistently draft so well and find
Speaker 1: value wherever you're at in the board? And they said, well,
Speaker 1: I think the main reason And they said a lot
Speaker 1: of people get it confused like that, there are certain
Speaker 1: teams that don't have great scouting departments or talent evaluation departments.
Speaker 1: There's pretty high level of talent evaluation all over the league,
Speaker 1: but it really is a matter of whether an owner
Speaker 1: decides they want to allow those decision makers and evaluators
Speaker 1: to have agency to make those decisions. And they said,
Speaker 1: you know, Joe lacob has really given us a lot
Speaker 1: of agency to make those decisions. What's it like when
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you see a decision one way and
Speaker 1: an owner disagrees.
Speaker 4: Well, it's a challenge for sure. And I'd reiterate that.
Speaker 4: I've heard the same about Joe Lacub. You know, he's
Speaker 4: an owner, is very involved in the process. Obviously, he's
Speaker 4: good at his team spin in the finals six of
Speaker 4: the last eight years and won four championships, and I
Speaker 4: give him a lot of credit twisted because as much
Speaker 4: as you know any majority owner I can think of
Speaker 4: off the top of my head, he works. I mean,
Speaker 4: he goes around, he scouts games, he watches films.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he loves it.
Speaker 4: So where you get in trouble you probably see where
Speaker 4: I'm going with this, but is where you get in
Speaker 4: trouble is when a guy does not do all that
Speaker 4: and bases it off of you know, pre draft workouts
Speaker 4: or highlight tapes or things like that, and thinks he knows, well,
Speaker 4: ultimately he's the boss, so does he know?
Speaker 3: You know? And so it's hard.
Speaker 4: I think, like anybody, when you disagree with, you know,
Speaker 4: somebody you're working for, you need to be persistent and
Speaker 4: make your points and be respectful, but also know when
Speaker 4: to relent right because ultimately, you know, at the end
Speaker 4: of the day, unless you own a company or you're
Speaker 4: you're the CEO or whatever, you work for somebody. So
Speaker 4: you have to, you know, pick your spots. You hope
Speaker 4: that the relationship you built up and the process you
Speaker 4: have is sound. Maybe if you have a track record
Speaker 4: of success doing something, you can fall back onto that.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think anybody who's disagreeing with the boss,
Speaker 4: you know, goes through the same calculation when do I push,
Speaker 4: how hard do I push? And when I realized it's
Speaker 4: not going to go my way or not likely to
Speaker 4: go my way, do I let go of the rope
Speaker 4: and relents even if I don't agree with the ultimate decision.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this happens at all, But when
Speaker 1: I disagree with someone for whatever decision, if I'm in
Speaker 1: a collaboration or I'm working for someone and I allow
Speaker 1: them to be the one and it does not work out,
Speaker 1: or vice versa, it's pretty hard to not be like, well,
Speaker 1: you see, like Frank Kaminsky really probably shouldn't have gone,
Speaker 1: like whatever the what was he thirteen twelve?
Speaker 4: Maybe I say no so quickly because I know who
Speaker 4: was the thirteenth pick in the twenty fifteen Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: It was Devin Booker. Wasn't so I think he came.
Speaker 1: I think Frank Kaminsky ended up going right before Devin Booker,
Speaker 1: didn't he.
Speaker 4: I think Frank went ninth or tenth. Yeah, nice change,
Speaker 4: maybe eleven. The direct pick before Devin was his college
Speaker 4: teammate Trey Lyles with the Utah Jazz.
Speaker 3: And this is why it's so hard.
Speaker 4: I mean Dennis Lindsay and the staff did a phenomenal
Speaker 4: job of building the Jazz when he was there. They
Speaker 4: drafted Donovan Mitchell in the late lottery and Gobert in
Speaker 4: the late first round. Own they had also drafted Rodney Hood,
Speaker 4: who played well at the time, you know, late teams
Speaker 4: early twenties there, so they had a perimeter heavy team.
Speaker 4: They wanted a frontcourt guy. They went with Lyles over Booker.
Speaker 4: In a vacuum, that pick doesn't look great, but then
Speaker 4: you look at the totality of their draft, like, yeah, Utah,
Speaker 4: you know, they've been one of the best teams the
Speaker 4: league last few years. So that's why the job is hard,
Speaker 4: Tristan and obviously one of the frustrations as you can imagine,
Speaker 4: and players get this too, but as an executive, as
Speaker 4: a head coach, you know, for certain members of fans
Speaker 4: of particular, certain members of the media, just picking a mistake,
Speaker 4: you know, picking a mistake rather than looking at the
Speaker 4: totality of it and saying, Okay, it's a hard job.
Speaker 4: And nobody literally, whether you Red Hourback or Jerry West,
Speaker 4: Everybody's going to make mistakes. You know, the guys who
Speaker 4: do it better make fewer mistakes and adjust to their
Speaker 4: mistakes quicker than everybody else.
Speaker 1: So I heard this story yesterday and I believe it
Speaker 1: was Mark Stein talking about the Dirk the Dirk draft pick,
Speaker 1: and he was talking to the Mavericks organization and asked
Speaker 1: him how Dirk did, and they basically said that that
Speaker 1: Dirk had a horrible workout and that this other kid,
Speaker 1: I forget who it was, really excelled, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was disappointing because they liked Dirk and all of this.
Speaker 1: Obviously they end up loving Dirk. That was complete lie
Speaker 1: and Dallas the Mavericks organization said to Mark, don't listen
Speaker 1: to us at all before draft because it's all lies.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about the whole disinformation
Speaker 1: campaign that goes on pre draft from team to team
Speaker 1: in the media. Know how front offices use media to
Speaker 1: sort of like take you off the scent? And who's
Speaker 1: the best at it in the league right now?
Speaker 4: Yeah, all really good questions. Trist to look at it
Speaker 4: this way, if you work for a team, why would
Speaker 4: you want anybody to know what you're doing?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: You wouldn't want anybody to know what you're doing because
Speaker 4: there goes to your competitive advantage. And in this draft
Speaker 4: that's coming tomorrow night, I think the Orlando Magic have
Speaker 4: done a good job injecting some uncertainty into the process.
Speaker 4: I mean, most people think they're going to take Jabari Smith,
Speaker 4: the Ford out of Auburn. I think that's who they'll take.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't be shocked if they take Cheded Holmgren personally.
Speaker 4: Now we've seen on the betting markets, and I know,
Speaker 4: obviously given your multiple gigs with Odyssey, if all the
Speaker 4: betting markets closely, Pollo bencerro A skyrocketed. He was a
Speaker 4: distant third on the betting markets. Now he's moved up
Speaker 4: just behind Cheed Holmgren and into that number three slot,
Speaker 4: close to number two. So I mean they're doing a
Speaker 4: good job of that.
Speaker 3: Now we'll see.
Speaker 4: Ultimately, all that matters to the franchise is whether they
Speaker 4: draft the right guy and how he develops. But yeah,
Speaker 4: if you're Orlando, for example, you want people thinking you
Speaker 4: could take any of those three guys, or maybe even
Speaker 4: Jade and Ivy, because if a team falls in love
Speaker 4: with the player, you don't want them to say, Okay,
Speaker 4: well we know Orlando's going to take Jabari Smith. For example,
Speaker 4: now let's just talk to Oklahoma City at two and
Speaker 4: try to trade for two because we know who wanted to.
Speaker 4: You know, you want all your options to be open.
Speaker 3: So that's why it happens.
Speaker 4: And yeah, the disinformation, it's easy on the team side
Speaker 4: the spot a lot of times because when you see
Speaker 4: stuff about your own team, you say, well, that's not true.
Speaker 4: You know obviously when when you're living it, when you're
Speaker 4: doing it. And so what I would say just from
Speaker 4: a general perspective for your fans is consider the sources, right,
Speaker 4: I mean, some of the NBA's top newsbreakers. You and
Speaker 4: I know a lot of them, but vadrimoor Zanowski, Champserania,
Speaker 4: some of these guys say it's probably pretty legitimate. If
Speaker 4: it's some guy with an egg with six followers on Twitter,
Speaker 4: you probably don't want to listen to that person if
Speaker 4: it is a person and.
Speaker 3: Not a bot. So that's the challenge.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: Teams will use it to throw, you know, throw out
Speaker 4: smoke screens. Agents will use it to try to as
Speaker 4: you talked about players rising or falling, especially, try to
Speaker 4: spike their guys value right before draft time and prevent
Speaker 4: a free fall. On the other side of it. So
Speaker 4: as far as teams, honestly, I think just about every
Speaker 4: team does it. And then you know, one of the
Speaker 4: new trends. This is interesting. I guess this is more
Speaker 4: related to free agency, but I was thinking of today.
Speaker 4: Is one of the things we're seeing now Trista is
Speaker 4: teams using the media to set the expectations for free agency.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: So it's for example, a recent example in the last
Speaker 4: twenty four hours, PJ Tucker opts out in Miami with
Speaker 4: the Heat. We see that the Offia seventy six ers,
Speaker 4: we'll offer PJ. Tucker a three year, thirty million dollar deal,
Speaker 4: and that the Miami Heat better be prepared to, you know,
Speaker 4: pay that amount.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of the word side. Yes, that's got
Speaker 1: to be coming from the agent side, right.
Speaker 4: I think it's both, Honestly. I think a lot of
Speaker 4: it probably is the agent side. You know, he's doing
Speaker 4: what's best rist player, that's his job. But a lot
Speaker 4: of it's the team side too, where if you're a PJ. Tucker,
Speaker 4: So I didn't know that team was interested and at
Speaker 4: that level, let me start, I was thinking about maybe
Speaker 4: re signing in Miami, you know, comfortable here. We just
Speaker 4: went to the Eastern Conference Finals, almost played in the
Speaker 4: NBA Finals at South Beach. No state income tacts, all
Speaker 4: those kinds of things. But Philly is interested whether they
Speaker 4: have James Harden and Joel Mbied and you know, so
Speaker 4: that's kind of the way the game is played now,
Speaker 4: as Draymond calls it the new media, and I don't
Speaker 4: think that's a trend that's going to change, not only
Speaker 4: with players, you know, doing media like Draymond and CJ. McCollum,
Speaker 4: but with teams and agents and even players leaking stuff
Speaker 4: to try to manipulate situations the way they.
Speaker 3: Wanted to go.
Speaker 1: What percentage of what we've seen rumor wise, specifically this year,
Speaker 1: considering it's a very wide open draft, would you consider
Speaker 1: to be false?
Speaker 3: Oh, more than half?
Speaker 4: You know, you know, I think you know a lot
Speaker 4: more than half, because you know, honestly, one of the
Speaker 4: things that's funny with NBA teams is they'll spend just
Speaker 4: about all their time talking about what every single other
Speaker 4: team's going to do, and then you know, and you
Speaker 4: ask somebody, what are you guys.
Speaker 3: Going to do?
Speaker 4: It's well, you know, I'm not sure, you know, because
Speaker 4: because there's no reason to tell another team what you're
Speaker 4: going to do, you know.
Speaker 3: So so I think that perpetuates it.
Speaker 4: You know, where kids like the game Telephone where you
Speaker 4: tell the person next to you and then they tell
Speaker 4: the next person, and by the time it got to
Speaker 4: the end of the line, the message was kind of similar,
Speaker 4: but like pretty different. That's kind of like the NBA
Speaker 4: where you know, you hear this team is interested in
Speaker 4: this guy or may do this, and and then it
Speaker 4: gets you know, parroted and maybe changed and tweaked a
Speaker 4: little bit, and by the time sometimes it hits the
Speaker 4: media or it gets back to you, say, wait a minute,
Speaker 4: that's not what It's kind of like what I heard,
Speaker 4: but different. So there is a lot of that in
Speaker 4: NBA front offices, and that's why I think in some ways, honestly,
Speaker 4: it's a little bit of a waste of time to
Speaker 4: do all that. If you're an NBA executive or with
Speaker 4: a team, just you know, focus on what you're doing,
Speaker 4: the draft, the film, the trades. Don't worry about it,
Speaker 4: and just rely on your direct conversations with other teams
Speaker 4: rather than what you read on Twitter or some of
Speaker 4: these NBA gossip sites.
Speaker 1: If we're betting on the NBA Draft, if you're in
Speaker 1: a state where you can bet, does it make sense
Speaker 1: to look at kind of the past decision making lens
Speaker 1: of an organization in terms of how they like to draft,
Speaker 1: how they like to construct a roster, in terms of
Speaker 1: how they may actually select. A good example that I
Speaker 1: guess I could use is like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: chatter around Toronto last year taking Jalen Suggs, but when
Speaker 1: you look at Messi Usieri and what he likes to do,
Speaker 1: he likes to get these six six to six ten
Speaker 1: guys that can switch everything, that can also handle the
Speaker 1: ball with exception obviously to Fred Van Fleet, which makes
Speaker 1: the Scottie Barnes pick make more sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really good question.
Speaker 4: And so I don't want to say disregard what I
Speaker 4: said up until this point, but if there is a time,
Speaker 4: especially if you're betting it, to rely on and NBA insiders,
Speaker 4: you know, you know, the elite NBA insiders newsbreakers, it
Speaker 4: is in the next twenty four hours from now up
Speaker 4: until the draft, because that was one of the things
Speaker 4: that that I got, you know, for Odyssey. I think
Speaker 4: it was in twenty twenty the draft that they were
Speaker 4: going to take the Chicago Bulls were going to take
Speaker 4: Patrick Williams with the fourth pick. I had a number
Speaker 4: of people tell me that, I think you would have
Speaker 4: gotten good value there on the betting markets because he
Speaker 4: was not a projected top four pick. So I say,
Speaker 4: you know, pay attention to some of that, like now
Speaker 4: you know the other three hundred and sixty three or
Speaker 4: four days, it's less relevant. But generally the mock drafts,
Speaker 4: especially Jonathan Givoni runs one for ESPN, are pretty accurate
Speaker 4: close to the draft, So I would pay attention to those.
Speaker 4: And then yeh, to your point the team history, I'll
Speaker 4: give you another example that's you know, probably to me,
Speaker 4: the most interesting thing in the draft tomorrow night is
Speaker 4: the Sacramento Kings at four. They they have the Aaron
Speaker 4: Fox and the roster max player. They drafted Davion Mitchell
Speaker 4: a year ago, which was controversial because at that time
Speaker 4: they had Tyres Halliburton on the roster. They traded Haliburton
Speaker 4: obviously for Sabonis with Indiana.
Speaker 3: Will they do it again? Will they draft Jade and
Speaker 3: Ivy again?
Speaker 4: He's the best player on the board in my opinion,
Speaker 4: maybe the best player to come out of this draft.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't be surprised, but I think there's maybe some
Speaker 4: value in a if you can get those kind of odds.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you can't trust it, but like
Speaker 4: Jade and Ivy with the fourth pick, not necessarily JAYD
Speaker 4: and Iy two second. You know, with the fourth pick,
Speaker 4: I think there's probably some good value there because I
Speaker 4: think he probably does go number four, whether that's Sacramento
Speaker 4: or another team swooping in by a trade.
Speaker 1: You are an international scout. I just watched The Hustle
Speaker 1: with Adam Sandler, so I have a new found appreciation
Speaker 1: for all the miles that you've logged in your life,
Speaker 1: and all of the room service and places you've woken
Speaker 1: up and you don't even know where you are. I
Speaker 1: am curious, based on your international experience, how places and
Speaker 1: regions and styles of play go in and out of style.
Speaker 1: You talk about a bunch of NBL guys or guys
Speaker 1: from Australia in general, like Gidey that have ripped things
Speaker 1: up early, you know, made an immediate impact. How does
Speaker 1: that that impact their decision makings and how other players
Speaker 1: from that area and how teams evaluate them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great question, and I think if you
Speaker 4: go back thirty years, what the Dream Team started is
Speaker 4: really powerful and impactful, and you see that as an
Speaker 4: international scout. In fact, you know, look at the recent
Speaker 4: award winners in the NBA. You know, two time MVP
Speaker 4: now Nikola Jokic from Serbia. Before that, Yannis you know,
Speaker 4: born in Nigeria, raised in Greece, maybe the best young
Speaker 4: player in the league, Luka Donsich from Slovenia. Pascal Siakam.
Speaker 4: I believe he recently won Most Improved Player from Cameroon.
Speaker 4: So it really is a worldwide game, you know, globally.
Speaker 4: We've talked about Dirk on this show. We could talk
Speaker 4: about you know, Yao Ming and other international players over
Speaker 4: the last couple of decades as well. So I think
Speaker 4: that's a good thing for the league. And I think,
Speaker 4: you know, one of the ways honestly that you see
Speaker 4: the rest of the world catching up to the USA
Speaker 4: and why it's so important to scout internationally is just
Speaker 4: watch Team USA play. This is not you know, Bird
Speaker 4: and Jordan and Magic and those guys beating Angola by
Speaker 4: one hundred points in the nineteen ninety two. You know,
Speaker 4: these these international countries, a lot of the top ones
Speaker 4: are pretty good. You know, you watch Spain or you
Speaker 4: know some of the top international teams, they really pushed
Speaker 4: the American guys. So I think, you know, that'll continue.
Speaker 4: I think the next region, honestly that the NBA is
Speaker 4: invested in it is Africa. You know where they have
Speaker 4: the Basketball Africa League. You know a lot of times
Speaker 4: there most of the time. Historically, the top African players
Speaker 4: like Serge Ibaka for example, of left they played in
Speaker 4: Europe and then they come over to the US. So
Speaker 4: the NBA is really trying to develop the African continent.
Speaker 4: But yeah, if you're in that role, you're in the
Speaker 4: Adam Sandler international scouting role, you better have your passport
Speaker 4: ready with the extra pages in that book to get
Speaker 4: you know, more stamps, and you better get a lot
Speaker 4: of frequent flyer miles because it's not like you're just
Speaker 4: scouting the US or just going to Europe like you
Speaker 4: could in the past. You're probably going to you know,
Speaker 4: Oceania they call it New Zealand, Australia, Asia, and then
Speaker 4: probably sometime in the future you going to Africa as well.
Speaker 1: My lord, I want to talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: and I know you got to get out of here.
Speaker 1: But I got like three more about teams that are
Speaker 1: looking to like trade their picks and they need immediate
Speaker 1: impact guys, a current role player. I'm thinking about Portland specifically,
Speaker 1: have promised Dame that they're going to retool. A lot
Speaker 1: of chatter about them trading that pick to get og
Speaker 1: and Anobi or John Collins, and the disinformation campaign now
Speaker 1: is alive and well that they're going to keep that
Speaker 1: seven pick. Help me understand why a team would go
Speaker 1: one direction, We're going to trade the pick and get
Speaker 1: a current role player that's you know, we need to
Speaker 1: win now, and then they do an about face and
Speaker 1: they keep that pick.
Speaker 4: I think because Trista, ultimately, as an executive, your job
Speaker 4: for the franchise is to do what's best given what's available. Right,
Speaker 4: you can want to do whatever. I mean, every executive
Speaker 4: the league would love to put together, you know, a
Speaker 4: super team of all stars at every position. That's obviously
Speaker 4: not realistic, but you know a lot of times, like
Speaker 4: in life, that you only make the decisions are in
Speaker 4: front of you. You can't force something that's not there. So
Speaker 4: I think Portland probably does want to trade the number
Speaker 4: seven pick. It seems like they have told Damian Lillard
Speaker 4: to your point that you know, this is not going
Speaker 4: to be a long drawn out rebuild. He's in his
Speaker 4: thirties now, he's made a ton of money, he's an
Speaker 4: All NBA player, He's going to the Hall of Fame someday.
Speaker 4: He doesn't have the patience for that, nor to be
Speaker 4: prudent for the Trailblazers to keep Lillard in a Blazer's uniform.
Speaker 4: Sty're going to do that, you know, makes sense to
Speaker 4: get young players and draft picks and things like that.
Speaker 4: So that's but the challenge is, you know, you don't
Speaker 4: want to trade the seventh pick for just whatever, you know,
Speaker 4: you know, for anybody, if he's not going to impact winning.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: The other school of thought is, okay, you know, we'd
Speaker 4: prefer to trade the pick. I imagine the Blazers have
Speaker 4: a list of players they would trade to pick four.
Speaker 4: But if you can't get one of those players, you know,
Speaker 4: then let's try to draft the best available guy we can.
Speaker 4: Maybe he shows out in summer league and builds value
Speaker 4: there and we could trade him, you know, later this summer,
Speaker 4: even into the season next year. Keep in mind the
Speaker 4: trade deadlines not till February. So those are decisions that
Speaker 4: take place, and you know on draft. That's why the
Speaker 4: best executive, the best teams are flexible. I think one
Speaker 4: of the best recent examples of that is Golden State
Speaker 4: and the maneuvering they did with D'Angelo Russell first and
Speaker 4: then with Andrew Wiggins in the pick. You know, I
Speaker 4: don't think that was something that they necessarily could have
Speaker 4: predicted in advance, but they gave themselves that optionality and
Speaker 4: flexibility and it culminated in Wiggins being maybe the second
Speaker 4: best player on the team that just won the championship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a wild turn of events man for
Speaker 1: him to turn into Maple Jordan after being you know,
Speaker 1: somewhat disappointing in Minnesota. It goes to show you that,
Speaker 1: you know, Steve Kerr said that, you know any that
Speaker 1: the majority of NBA players could be impact players if
Speaker 1: they were in the right situation. Do you think that's true.
Speaker 4: It's not something that we discuss enough situation, role fit.
Speaker 4: And what I would say Trista is they're only a
Speaker 4: handful of guys in the NBA that, in my opinion,
Speaker 4: are that one a alpha guy that you know, you
Speaker 4: hang on the Marquee, you sell tickets. They you know,
Speaker 4: people come visiting, fans come to see that guy play.
Speaker 4: There aren't many of those guys there certainly aren't third
Speaker 4: of them. And so if you're Andrew Wiggins, who, as
Speaker 4: you know, is backstory son of Mitchell Wiggins, former NBA player,
Speaker 4: one of the anointed ones. From a young teenager, this
Speaker 4: kid was the number one player and potential NBA star.
Speaker 4: It's hard to live up to that pressure in those expectations,
Speaker 4: especially when you are drafted number one by Cleveland and
Speaker 4: then traded, you know, for Kevin Love to Minnesota and
Speaker 4: the Timberwolves and their fans expect that. So I just
Speaker 4: think of it from Wiggins perspective, going from the guy
Speaker 4: who's expected to be the guy in lead Minnesota championships,
Speaker 4: and obviously the Timberwolves are well short of that. He
Speaker 4: gets traded, you know, as a quote unquote disappointment in
Speaker 4: the eyes of a lot of people to Golden State.
Speaker 4: In fact, and if you know, I'm not saying that's
Speaker 4: pick on Wiggins, but keep in mind that Minnesota threw
Speaker 4: in a pick that ended up being Jonathan Comenda, the
Speaker 4: seventh pick in the draft, along with Wiggins, gives me
Speaker 4: an idea of his value at the time to now
Speaker 4: he's the fourth guy in Goldens He's not the guy anymore.
Speaker 3: That's we know that is that's Steph.
Speaker 4: Curry, the best shooter in the history of the game.
Speaker 4: But they also have Draymond Green and Klay Thompson who
Speaker 4: are also head of the Hall of Fame someday. So
Speaker 4: now Wiggins can just be himself. He can just play
Speaker 4: his role. He's not the folk point. He's not the
Speaker 4: guy that everybody in the media and the fans wants
Speaker 4: to hear from. He's not the center of the defensive
Speaker 4: game plan. In effect, is probably not even the second
Speaker 4: or maybe it's probably the third guy in the game plan.
Speaker 4: You're playing against Golden State, and he strived, you know, so,
Speaker 4: like I think that's what Kurr is referring to in
Speaker 4: his situation. It is opportunity and the teams that usually
Speaker 4: win have that, you know, one a alpha guy at
Speaker 4: the top, and then everybody falls in line beyond behind him.
Speaker 1: I think one of the most complicated evaluation decisions I
Speaker 1: guess of this draft seems to be chet Right. Chet
Speaker 1: Holmgrin from Gonzaga seven footer Elite shooter, elite shot creator,
Speaker 1: elite passer, defender, really good shot blocker, probably one of
Speaker 1: the most unique Unicorn type players that we've seen. So
Speaker 1: they say, right, but he's one hundred and ninety five pounds,
Speaker 1: has all the tools. My guess. My question to you
Speaker 1: is do you think that Chet's frame can functionally work
Speaker 1: at the NBA level with this full tool box of
Speaker 1: skills if he does not put on another pound.
Speaker 4: No, he needs to add weigh And this is why
Speaker 4: one of the reasons why the job is so hard.
Speaker 4: I think, at least in my opinion, clearly Chet Holman
Speaker 4: has the most upside of any player in this draft
Speaker 4: with his size, his length, is shooting potential, is shot blocking.
Speaker 4: I think he blocked three and a half shots a
Speaker 4: game bag in twenty six minutes. You know, he can
Speaker 4: be a unicorn, But is he going to be healthy?
Speaker 4: Is he Is he going to make it? So to speak,
Speaker 4: and we've seen guys with unusual bodies. You know, I
Speaker 4: don't want to scare anybody's fishing Orlando Magic fans, but
Speaker 4: Greg Odin, yeah, broke down.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: Recently, there's some questions, I think valid questions about Christefsporzingis
Speaker 4: and his long term health. You know, it's checking to
Speaker 4: be one of those guys or is he going to
Speaker 4: have a successful ten or fifteen year career. And honestly, Trista,
Speaker 4: that's part of the reason the job is so hard
Speaker 4: that as an executive you really have to rely on
Speaker 4: your medical staff, your doctors and trainers or scientists. I
Speaker 4: imagine the magic particular probably Okay, see as well has
Speaker 4: put Homegrun through a battery of tests and gotten his
Speaker 4: medical information and dissected it. And really it's like anything else,
Speaker 4: it's a projection. Is this guy going to hold up?
Speaker 4: Is there anything chronically wrong with him? And then it's
Speaker 4: you know, it's like building a house with his frame.
Speaker 4: How much can you add to it before it potentially
Speaker 4: crumbles or falls apart. Yeah, so I think those are
Speaker 4: legitimate questions.
Speaker 3: Let me put it this way.
Speaker 4: I think if chet Holmgren's body were solid like, he'd
Speaker 4: be the number one pick for sure. But I think
Speaker 4: that is a legitimate question and a reason why you
Speaker 4: may see Tubori Smith go off the board if Orlando
Speaker 4: doesn't want to take that risk.
Speaker 1: Last last question about Jade and Ivy for him, my
Speaker 1: I guess on what I've read to what I've seen.
Speaker 1: What I've read is that he has a ton of
Speaker 1: skills physically right and very explosive athlete, but the one
Speaker 1: question mark is his decision making ability, and a bet
Speaker 1: on him is really truly a bet on whether you
Speaker 1: can develop him into being this really good decision maker,
Speaker 1: a playmaker and find the ability to drive and kick well. Right,
Speaker 1: He's made some pretty bad shots in the tournament, kind
Speaker 1: of taking bad twos and threes when he can make
Speaker 1: the open look. So I guess the question is how
Speaker 1: do teams evaluate on the front end whether a player
Speaker 1: you can do that with him, and whether they're capable
Speaker 1: of getting better on the IQ and decision making side.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of.
Speaker 4: It's the in person scouting and the film work. You know,
Speaker 4: you really want to get technical and break it down,
Speaker 4: especially the pick and rolls is you know, that's such
Speaker 4: an important part of today's NBA game. And then there's
Speaker 4: decision making. And one of the things we did when
Speaker 4: I was gam with the Suns is when we met
Speaker 4: with players, we would pull film clips of their games
Speaker 4: and then have them talk us through what they saw,
Speaker 4: what they were thinking, you know, obviously there's some good
Speaker 4: plays mixed into some bad plays. You want to see
Speaker 4: how a player thinks the game and how he talks
Speaker 4: through it. And then you also, frankly, you have to
Speaker 4: evaluate the whole roster and the coaching staff and things
Speaker 4: like that as well, because if a player was used
Speaker 4: a certain way before getting of the NBA, but you're
Speaker 4: not going to use him that way. Keep in mind, usually,
Speaker 4: as you know trist especially compared to Big ten basketball
Speaker 4: at Purdue with Ivy, the NBA game can be faster,
Speaker 4: it can be more open. It's actually less physical. I
Speaker 4: think that's more intuitive to some people, but there's less
Speaker 4: contact on the ball handler. So that's part of the
Speaker 4: reason I'm a fan of Jade and Ivy. I really
Speaker 4: like the kids potential. I think with the NBA now
Speaker 4: with hand checking basically disallowed, whereas a defender you can't
Speaker 4: really put your hands on a guy, I think it's
Speaker 4: going to be really hard for people to stay in
Speaker 4: front of that kid. And that's why, you know, I
Speaker 4: see shades of John Morant. You're right, the decision making
Speaker 4: has to improve. I see flashes of a young John Wall.
Speaker 4: He just moves at a different speed with the ball.
Speaker 4: And given his background too, keep in mind his mother
Speaker 4: and Yale was an excellent player coach with the Grizzlies,
Speaker 4: now the head coach in Notre Dame. This kid's you know,
Speaker 4: comes from an athletic family and a basketball family. And
Speaker 4: watching him play and see him interview, he seems like
Speaker 4: a pretty sharp guy. So for me, just from Afar,
Speaker 4: I think he'll be able to figure it out. I
Speaker 4: think he has a lot of things you can't teach,
Speaker 4: and he seemed certainly smart enough and willing to learn
Speaker 4: the things you can't teach as an NBA team.
Speaker 1: Well and follow up, is that what you saw with
Speaker 1: Devin Devin Booker.
Speaker 3: Some similarities yea, yeah, obviously.
Speaker 4: You know Devin didn't have the freaky athleticism, he had
Speaker 4: the beautiful shot. I think we stood out to us
Speaker 4: more than anything Trista was the competitiveness. I mean, we
Speaker 4: saw the shooting at Kentucky, but then when we brought
Speaker 4: him into our gym for a free draft workout, the
Speaker 4: hyper competitiveness. He didn't want to lose a drill, nobody
Speaker 4: could stop him. And then when we did some two
Speaker 4: on two or three on three in particular, you saw
Speaker 4: some of the ball handling and playmaking that if you
Speaker 4: go back and watch the high school film, it was there,
Speaker 4: but that was not his role at Kentucky.
Speaker 3: So that's part of the reason the job is hard.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: If you just watched him.
Speaker 4: With the wild Kaats, he said, well, he's an excellent
Speaker 4: catch and shoot player. What else can he do? Well,
Speaker 4: it was first team All NBA guy. He can do
Speaker 4: a lot, but that wasn't obvious at the time. I
Speaker 4: really that pre draft process helped to solidify that he
Speaker 4: was the guy, and luckily he was there at thirteen
Speaker 4: in the twenty fifteen draft.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting how situations sometimes can throw teams off
Speaker 1: the scent. I think Duke is really good at players
Speaker 1: to what they can be. I think Powello could be
Speaker 1: a star. Just was kind of used in a different
Speaker 1: way than maybe he'll be used in the NBA. But
Speaker 1: awesome stuff. Thank you so much for joining us. I
Speaker 1: appreciate you giving me a plethora a swath of your
Speaker 1: very valuable time. I hope we can do it again
Speaker 1: soon anytime.
Speaker 3: Tristan. Always great to be on with you.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Appreciate that. That was Ryan McDonough, former
Speaker 1: GM of the Phoenix Suns, assistant GM of the Celtics,
Speaker 1: former international scout, current Odyssey, NBA and Basketball Insider, awesome
Speaker 1: stuff like I'm gonna go back and listen to that
Speaker 1: and listen some more. So I'm really happy that he
Speaker 1: gave us his time. I actually am out of time.
Speaker 1: I got to run as well. I'll give you guys
Speaker 1: some more post draft insight, quick wildcards, things that I
Speaker 1: think might or may not happen. I still have some
Speaker 1: things I want to say about Pat Baldwin and Shaden
Speaker 1: Sharp and Jeremy Soshan and some others. But thank you
Speaker 1: to our guest, Ryan McDonald. He was very generous with
Speaker 1: this time. Find us on the podcast if you want
Speaker 1: to listen to that back wherever you get them. That's
Speaker 1: the heat Check. That is all the time that we
Speaker 1: have for heat Check moved back Friday with a live
Speaker 1: episode recapping all the draft news. Follow us from heat
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