Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,
Speaker 2: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.
Speaker 2: What do we have, Chris sal did we do?
Speaker 1: There is a lot that is unfolding this week. So
Speaker 1: first of all, very dramatic Hunter Biden plea deal hearing yesterday.
Speaker 1: The whole thing is on the rocks. We will take
Speaker 1: you inside all of the chaos. There also quite a dramatic,
Speaker 1: scary moment with Mitch McConnelly seemed to freeze completely, was
Speaker 1: unable to continue speaking while answering questions. Came back, was
Speaker 1: able to speak after that, But we're trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what the heck is going on there in terms
Speaker 1: of his health.
Speaker 3: Sager was on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 1: Yesterday for the big UFO hearing. By the way, thanks
Speaker 1: to premium subscribers for making things like that happen, and
Speaker 1: we have additional coverage of those hearings, all the highlights today.
Speaker 1: We've also got some legal drama involving Rudy Giuliani. He's
Speaker 1: now admitted in a court of law that he was
Speaker 1: lying about some election workers down in Georgia. Will show
Speaker 1: his original comments and what he is saying now. We
Speaker 1: also have updates for you on situation involving the First
Speaker 1: family's dogs. The youngest dog has been involved in a
Speaker 1: number of biting incidents that were not disclosed, so we'll.
Speaker 3: Give you what is going on there.
Speaker 1: Happy to have Freddy de Boor joining us this morning
Speaker 1: to talk about his latest column about how AOC is
Speaker 1: now just a regular Democrat, and I am taking a
Speaker 1: look at some comments from Abigail Disney. Disney airis going
Speaker 1: after their CEO, Bob Iger. So lots to get to
Speaker 1: this morning. But before we do any of that, as
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Speaker 1: the presidential candidate interviews. One thing that I was realizing
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Speaker 4: It's very true.
Speaker 2: And my only employer, I only implore more comms directors
Speaker 2: out there stop just giving us thirty minutes. There's no
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Speaker 2: year seven, because they're used.
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Speaker 4: Let's do an hour.
Speaker 2: An hour is a nice solid period of time, and
Speaker 2: I think if you're confident enough and what you have
Speaker 2: to say, those people should speak for an hour. But okay,
Speaker 2: let's get to the Hunter Biden news.
Speaker 4: This was shocking. So while I was.
Speaker 2: On Capitol Hill all of this is going down, I'm
Speaker 2: getting caught up. Afterwards, I said, this is one of
Speaker 2: the wildest things that has unfolded in terms of like
Speaker 2: legal wrangling at the high level that we've seen in
Speaker 2: what years now, I think at the top level of politics.
Speaker 2: Hunter Biden and his lawyers, it appears, showed up to
Speaker 2: court with a completely different understanding crystal of a plea
Speaker 2: deal that they had reached with the Department of Justice.
Speaker 2: In the minds of the Hunter Biden legal team, they
Speaker 2: believed that they were not only going to plead guilty
Speaker 2: to this sweetheart deal, but that they were going to
Speaker 2: receive they were going to receive immunity from all future
Speaker 2: charges and specifically related to foreign corruption. The Department of
Speaker 2: Justice was like, hold on a second, that's not really
Speaker 2: necessarily what we agree to, and it led to an
Speaker 2: extraordinary confrontation actually inside of the court room.
Speaker 4: Here was a snap v of.
Speaker 2: What that looked like that was actually covered live on
Speaker 2: television as was going down.
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 5: And they said, okay, so you're asking me to accept
Speaker 5: a plea agreement, but does that cover any potential charges?
Speaker 5: And she referenced the work that Hunter Biden has done
Speaker 5: for entities in foreign countries, and she said, does this
Speaker 5: preclude you from being bringing Pharaoh charges in the future
Speaker 5: if I accept this plea agreement? And the government said no,
Speaker 5: we could bring those charges. The defense Chris Clark, acting
Speaker 5: on behalf of Hunter Biden, disagreed with that and said no,
Speaker 5: that's not my understanding of the agreement. And then the
Speaker 5: federal prosecutor said, then there's no deal. That was at
Speaker 5: eleven thirty one, and Chris Clark, who represents Hunter Biden says,
Speaker 5: as far as I'm concerned, the plea agreement is null
Speaker 5: and void.
Speaker 6: Just as I left the.
Speaker 5: Court room itself, the judge determined that there should be
Speaker 5: a ten minute recess to try and figure out whether
Speaker 5: or not the two parties can quickly come to an agreement.
Speaker 2: That was Tom Winters at NBC's an absolute pro in
Speaker 2: terms of covering these things crystals. So after in that
Speaker 2: ten minute interim period, here's the most crazy part. It
Speaker 2: seems that the DOJ did actually agree to some of
Speaker 2: what Hunter's demands, because in that ten minute interim, the
Speaker 2: Department of Justice, of course, led by Merrick Garland, agreed
Speaker 2: effectively to some immunity at least in the future, to
Speaker 2: some of these charges to get Hunter to plead guilty
Speaker 2: on these tax charges, which would effectively absolve him and
Speaker 2: not having to serve any jail time, regardless of the
Speaker 2: fact that he failed to pay lots of fact taxes,
Speaker 2: that it was all eventually paid back by donors, and
Speaker 2: there's a lot more that we can discuss and talk
Speaker 2: about there. But then the most shocking thing is not
Speaker 2: that the Department of Justice agreed to an even more
Speaker 2: frankly sweetheart deal.
Speaker 4: It's that when they presented this to the judge that.
Speaker 2: The judge threw out this hastily agreed to immunignize deal,
Speaker 2: effectively saying that it was too sweet, that she needs
Speaker 2: to take a lot more time, that they need to
Speaker 2: take a lot more time to actually look at it.
Speaker 4: Here again is some of the live coverage.
Speaker 5: The President of the United States has just pleaded not guilty.
Speaker 5: Not guilty is what he is pleaded to. The judge
Speaker 5: here says that she will not accept or reject the
Speaker 5: plea agreement. She wants more information. Basically, excuse me. What
Speaker 5: she's asking for is to determine whether or not it's
Speaker 5: appropriate for her to consider something in the diversion program.
Speaker 4: This relates to the gun charge.
Speaker 5: So as part of that agreement, effectively, what you have
Speaker 5: here is a provision which asks the court to weigh
Speaker 5: whether or not possibly Hunter Biden could be could have
Speaker 5: violated his pre trial diversion agreement as it relates to
Speaker 5: the gun charge. What would happen according to that agreement
Speaker 5: is that the defense and the prosecution, but they have
Speaker 5: the opportunity to bring the facts to the court and
Speaker 5: for the court to determine whether or not there was
Speaker 5: a breach of that. If there is a breach, then
Speaker 5: the government could then move forward and prosecute Hunter Biden
Speaker 5: on the gun charge. What she says is, wait just
Speaker 5: a minute. I'm not somebody who normally has to consider
Speaker 5: those provisions. I normally don't see a pre trial diversion agreement.
Speaker 5: And now you're putting me in the position possibly of
Speaker 5: being the gatekeeper as to whether or not the Justice
Speaker 5: Department in the government files charges against Hunter Biden.
Speaker 2: There you go, Crystal, I mean, in terms of the breakdown,
Speaker 2: extraordinary move by the judge, extortainary collapse live I mean,
Speaker 2: and you couldn't script a more of a drama in
Speaker 2: terms of corruption the president's son, how would really the
Speaker 2: tax charges, the money and all of this. So what
Speaker 2: did you make of everything as it was going down?
Speaker 1: Well, again, just to set the context here, everyone was
Speaker 1: expecting this to be a very perfunctory, predictable hearing with
Speaker 1: zero drama, and instead from the get go we had
Speaker 1: chaos and drama unfolding in what was really a wild way.
Speaker 1: So there are two pieces here that are really bad
Speaker 1: for Hunter Biden and by extension for his dad, which
Speaker 1: is number one.
Speaker 3: The government did.
Speaker 1: Not agree to the idea that all of the potential
Speaker 1: Farah charges, that's all the foreign lobbying, unregistered lobbying stuff.
Speaker 1: They did not agree that that was part of this
Speaker 1: plea deal, and Biden and his team had to accept that.
Speaker 1: So this deal, the tentative deal that now the judge
Speaker 1: is considering whether she's even going to accept, includes immunity
Speaker 1: from a few drug charges, past drug charges, additional gun charges,
Speaker 1: and tax. So those are the three areas that they're saying, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll put those pieces to the side, But that leads
Speaker 1: a gigantic swath of some of the most concerning legal
Speaker 1: trouble if you are you know, Hunter Biden, or again
Speaker 1: if you are his father, Joe Biden, which is all
Speaker 1: of these foreign entanglements that we've been hearing so much about.
Speaker 1: So that's one piece that is out now on a
Speaker 1: disaster for him and his team. And the second piece is,
Speaker 1: you know, probably when the judge comes back in thirty days,
Speaker 1: she's going to figure out how to get to a
Speaker 1: yes on this plea deal. But it's not certain at all.
Speaker 1: She very uncomfortable with it, as Tom Witcher's articulated there
Speaker 1: there are pieces of it that she even went so
Speaker 1: far as to say, I'm.
Speaker 3: Not even sure this is constitutional.
Speaker 1: So the very status of the whole plea deal, which
Speaker 1: is a very good deal, a very sweetheart deal for
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden, I think you have to say that the
Speaker 1: whole status of that.
Speaker 3: Is in jeopardy at this point.
Speaker 1: And on the politics of it, obviously, this just drags
Speaker 1: out the messiness of all of this and opens it
Speaker 1: back up into the public eye and also makes it clear.
Speaker 1: And there were some questions about this going in. There
Speaker 1: were discrepancies over whether or not the DOJ's investigation into
Speaker 1: Hunter was continuing or not. One side said it was,
Speaker 1: the other side said no, no, no, we got assurance
Speaker 1: says it wasn't. It's very clear now that that investigation
Speaker 1: does continue. It's very clear that it's possible that he's
Speaker 1: going to face additional charges.
Speaker 3: So very very bad day if you are Hunter Bikeen.
Speaker 2: I also think this absolutely validates the criticism by the
Speaker 2: career IRS officials who said this is not how a
Speaker 2: normal tax investigation would go under any other citizen. They
Speaker 2: said they were prevented from executing search warrants on the
Speaker 2: Biden residence. They said that this was treated with kid gloves,
Speaker 2: that this was treated in a political manner, that they
Speaker 2: never would have brought just misdemeanor, that they had a
Speaker 2: full scale criminal investigation that they would have pursued. And
Speaker 2: clearly the judge here agrees at the very least in principle,
Speaker 2: they're like, hey, this is not how this normally would
Speaker 2: have gone. So I think at a very basic level,
Speaker 2: it validates the irs whistleblowers that spoke before Congress and
Speaker 2: actually does show that these are not partisan people are
Speaker 2: actually speaking from a place of conviction. And then again,
Speaker 2: on a basic level, we just have to return to
Speaker 2: the facts of the matter here. Why is to Hunter
Speaker 2: in trouble at all? He received tens of millions of
Speaker 2: dollars from foreign governments for lobbying, which, by the way,
Speaker 2: he's on text proof subpoena saying I don't want to
Speaker 2: register as a foreign agent because he didn't register as
Speaker 2: a foreign agent while working with the Chinese government.
Speaker 4: Okay, so that's actually illegal. That's number one.
Speaker 2: Number two, he got all this money, which I guess
Speaker 2: is not illegal, belthough in my opinion it should be.
Speaker 2: Then he didn't pay taxes on that money. I mean,
Speaker 2: we're not talking about a paltry here. We're talking about
Speaker 2: one point five million dollars. That means that one point
Speaker 2: five million is app is like thirty seven percent of
Speaker 2: whatever the sum is after he included all of his
Speaker 2: insane ride offs for prostitutes and all this other stuff.
Speaker 2: That is a colossal sum of money that we are
Speaker 2: talking about here for only a one to two year period,
Speaker 2: and then that money. Part of the reason they were
Speaker 2: able to justify the misdemeanor charge Crystal is because they
Speaker 2: said he was current on his tax obligations, when we
Speaker 2: know it's not because he used his personal money. He
Speaker 2: used a mega Democratic donor loaned him said money somehow,
Speaker 2: violating like federal gift tax laws, all kinds of other
Speaker 2: stuff to pay his tax obligations. And then, I know
Speaker 2: it sounds crazy here, but then in just the last
Speaker 2: couple of days, we learned that a frequent guest of
Speaker 2: the Biden.
Speaker 4: Whitehouse is paying eight hundred thousand dollars for.
Speaker 2: This fool's paintings, as if that's somehow market value that's
Speaker 2: up and up. Exactly, how does he afford to live
Speaker 2: in this Malibu mansion, and why does any of this matter? Look, Hunter,
Speaker 2: I genuinely wish him best. He seems like a troubled guy.
Speaker 2: I actually know some people who know him. They say
Speaker 2: he's actually fun, fun at parties. I guess, not shocking,
Speaker 2: but they were always like, look, you know, he took
Speaker 2: it really hard the death of his brother, and he
Speaker 2: actually was an athlete's been through his mom died that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I have nothing against him on a personal level.
Speaker 2: It's only that so much of its Shenanigan's expose the
Speaker 2: lies from the Biden administration about Biden's involvement here, and
Speaker 2: especially when he's getting all this backtacks and personal profit
Speaker 2: to the family, to the brother and somebody either from
Speaker 2: the actual.
Speaker 4: Connections of the president of the United States.
Speaker 2: That's when it becomes not only a scandal, but should
Speaker 2: venture into the territory of illegal, if it not already is.
Speaker 7: So.
Speaker 2: Some of it may be legal, I'm sure it is
Speaker 2: because Burnsane lost, But I mean he played so fast
Speaker 2: and loose. It's very easy to see here how he
Speaker 2: very likely violated the law in a number of places.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, only because I think the Republicans are in
Speaker 2: charge to the House. They've been able to drag any
Speaker 2: of this stuff up through an official level.
Speaker 4: Otherwise we would never heard about it.
Speaker 1: So there's let me, let me give you what if
Speaker 1: you turn on MSNBC or stand that what their side
Speaker 1: is going to be.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Number one, she's a Trump appointed judge. Number two, this
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with Joe Biden. This is just
Speaker 1: a personal matter involving Hunter Biden and process should play out,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. On the piece about her being
Speaker 1: a Trump judge, Listen, it would have been crazy for
Speaker 1: them to accept a deal where he's not going to
Speaker 1: face any scrutiny over all of these foreign entangled I
Speaker 1: mean that would it would be an abdication of any
Speaker 1: judge's duty to allow that to just go through and
Speaker 1: for the government to say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: part of the deal. That would have been insane. So
Speaker 1: I think it's based on what I can tell, entirely
Speaker 1: appropriate that she's taking some time to scrutinize this deal, which,
Speaker 1: as she put it, rather mildly, has some atypical elements
Speaker 1: to it. And let's talk about those atypical elements, because
Speaker 1: that's where it goes from, oh, this is just a
Speaker 1: personal matter of involving Hunter Biden. He's not President. Joe
Speaker 1: Biden has nothing to do with this. This is Joe
Speaker 1: Biden's Department of Justice we're talking about here. And so
Speaker 1: if his son is getting a deal that has quote
Speaker 1: unquote atypical elements, that very much does involve Joe Biden.
Speaker 3: Not to mention, you know, all of.
Speaker 1: The evidence suggestions that Joe knew a lot more about
Speaker 1: these business dealings than he has so far said, and
Speaker 1: we'll get to that in a moment. So, you know,
Speaker 1: for the White House to just try to say, oh, no,
Speaker 1: common and this is totally separate, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 1: just no one's going to buy that. I mean, the
Speaker 1: public is certainly not going to buy that piece. And
Speaker 1: I'm certainly glad that the government and the judge were like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is not take all of your troubles off of
Speaker 1: the table, because some of the most serious and most
Speaker 1: consequential in terms of the public trust elements still remain
Speaker 1: under investigation.
Speaker 3: Apparently.
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, and actually let's get to that.
Speaker 2: As I reference the House, Republicans have been calling many
Speaker 2: of these witnesses who, in my opinion, should have been
Speaker 2: deposed or at least pure before the DOJ and others
Speaker 2: for years ago.
Speaker 4: I don't know why it's taken so long. Let's put
Speaker 4: this up there on the screen.
Speaker 2: They say Hunter Biden put then Vice President Dad Joe
Speaker 2: Biden on the phone with business associates quote at least
Speaker 2: two dozen times. That is according to the ex business
Speaker 2: partner of Hunter Biden named Devin Archer. So Archer, who,
Speaker 2: by the way, just to be clear, is facing jail
Speaker 2: time for his role quote in a sixty million dollars
Speaker 2: bond fraud. So not exactly the most savory character. Although
Speaker 2: I guess you know this is Hunter we're talking about here,
Speaker 2: so it's not like he was in business with the best.
Speaker 2: The thing is about Archer is that he says is
Speaker 2: that after dinner with the Barisma board at a very
Speaker 2: famous hotel in Dubai, he and Hunter then traveled six
Speaker 2: miles north to the Four Seasons Resort, Dubai to have
Speaker 2: a drink with one of Hunter's friends.
Speaker 4: Quote.
Speaker 2: While they were sitting outside at the bar, a senior
Speaker 2: Barisma executive phone to ask where they were because Bisma's
Speaker 2: owner needed to speak with Hunter urgently. Soon afterwards, two
Speaker 2: Ukrainians joined Hunter and Archer at the Four Seasons bar
Speaker 2: and they asked Hunter, quote, can you ring your dad?
Speaker 2: Hunter then called his father, put him on speaker, placed
Speaker 2: the phone on the table, and introduced the Ukrainians to
Speaker 2: Joe Biden as the names of the two associates who
Speaker 2: there were actively with him at the bar at the
Speaker 2: Four Seasons hotel in Dubai. Also, I mean, just to
Speaker 2: give a little bit of more credence to this, Archer
Speaker 2: is actually pictured with Joe Biden and with Hunter Biden
Speaker 2: playing golf while he was the vice president of the
Speaker 2: United States, So it's undeniable that they actually had met
Speaker 2: in the past. Now, look, of course, people play golf
Speaker 2: with a lot of people, especial when your vice president.
Speaker 2: Obviously you take photos probably with tens of thousands of
Speaker 2: people a year. So it's not like that proves anything.
Speaker 2: But more so, we know for a verifiable fact that
Speaker 2: Devin Archer was in a longtime business associate of Hunter
Speaker 2: Biden involved in many of these sketchy foreign deals. I've
Speaker 2: known his name for years, having done some reading investigation
Speaker 2: and all this into the China business dealings. To the
Speaker 2: breeze and dealings and how he really was at the
Speaker 2: center of this. He was also there with John Carey's stepson.
Speaker 4: The children of the elite really are amazing. I love
Speaker 4: they're all in business together. It's incredible.
Speaker 3: But these people merit based.
Speaker 2: It's very merit based, and their multi milik as if
Speaker 2: their parents' fortunes weren't enough, That's what always is interested me.
Speaker 2: So Devin Archer, like I said, is an unsavord character,
Speaker 2: certainly in his own right, certainly facing jail time and
Speaker 2: all of that right now that I alluded to. But
Speaker 2: he does have business, he has had passes, his deals
Speaker 2: with Hunter Biden. He's testifying under oath here, and remember
Speaker 2: he's facing jail time, so it's not like he it's
Speaker 2: not like he isn't still under scrutiny about some of
Speaker 2: these past instances. And he's gonna say under oath that
Speaker 2: Vice President Biden spoke quote two dozen times with business
Speaker 2: associates of Hunter. And this also backs up crystal numerous
Speaker 2: allegations that Hunter not only introduces Ukrainian business partners to
Speaker 2: his dad, his Chinese business partners, while remember he flew
Speaker 2: on Air Force too to Beijing and then was conducting
Speaker 2: business while he was there and according to them, had
Speaker 2: some sort of drive by meeting while Hunter was raising
Speaker 2: billions of dollars from the CEFC fund, which I've spoken
Speaker 2: about here previously. It is now feeding Crystal into a
Speaker 2: lot more questions around did Biden lie about not.
Speaker 4: Having those dealings with or with his son?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 2: And are the current White House denials why have they
Speaker 2: started changing their language, right?
Speaker 1: That's the key, That's why I really think he screwed
Speaker 1: himself on the initial denials, which went so far as
Speaker 1: to say I never even talked about the business deals
Speaker 1: with Hunter, which, by the way, if that's true, like
Speaker 1: you should have been talking to him about them, to
Speaker 1: be like, stop doing this strop writing number one number two,
Speaker 1: it's just hard to believe you never had a conversation
Speaker 1: with your son about what he was up to. Come on,
Speaker 1: and so increasingly, you know, I mean, you got this
Speaker 1: guy out there who listening is not the most trustworthy,
Speaker 1: savory character. But also he's under oath and he has
Speaker 1: no apparent reason lie, at least no real motivation or
Speaker 1: whatever to lie.
Speaker 3: Saying very directly that yeah, Joe.
Speaker 1: Was on the speakerphone he was read in on some
Speaker 1: of these deals at the very least, so you do
Speaker 1: have in recent weeks and months instead of them leaning
Speaker 1: into the Joe never even talked to Hunter. Now the
Speaker 1: message hang is well, Joe wasn't involved in the business,
Speaker 1: which is you know a little bit of a subtle
Speaker 1: shift there, kaream jump here was asked about exactly this
Speaker 1: shift in messaging by reporter journalist Philip Wegman.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to how that went.
Speaker 9: The President has previously said that he has never discussed
Speaker 9: overseas business dealings with the son, but the White House
Speaker 9: now says that the President has never been in business.
Speaker 9: So why the updated language? Which statement is true or
Speaker 9: is the semantics?
Speaker 7: And they're both true.
Speaker 10: As I stated on Monday, when I was asked this
Speaker 10: question multiple times, nothing has changed, Nothing has changed on
Speaker 10: this Nothing has changed on this, and so he asked
Speaker 10: me a million different ways on this question.
Speaker 8: Nothing has changed, nothing has changed, But the language has changed,
Speaker 8: and there is you know, increasing suggestion that in fact
Speaker 8: the initial language just a flat out lie.
Speaker 2: Oh it is absolutely And we even have the video here.
Speaker 2: We can show everyone from the campaign trail whenever Peter Doocey.
Speaker 4: Fox uses. Peter Doocey was the Biden.
Speaker 2: Campaign embed and he repeatedly pressed Biden on many of
Speaker 2: these issues. This is also a good view into why
Speaker 2: it's important to get people on the record early when
Speaker 2: they are running, so years later if it does turn
Speaker 2: out that they're lying, that you can point to it
Speaker 2: and show this. So this is from the campaign trail
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen where Biden has confronted exactly over business dealings
Speaker 2: with Hunter. All of this was actually known, much of
Speaker 2: it within the public record.
Speaker 4: Here's what Biden had to say.
Speaker 11: I've never spoken by some love yet and so here's
Speaker 11: what I know. I know Trump.
Speaker 12: Deserves to be investigated.
Speaker 13: He is violating every face the norm of a president.
Speaker 11: You should be asking him the question, why is he
Speaker 11: on the phone with a foreign leader trying to intimidate
Speaker 11: a foreign leader.
Speaker 13: If that's what happened, that's Appure's what happened. You should
Speaker 13: be looking at Trump. Trump's doing this because he knows
Speaker 13: I'll beat him like a drum and he's using the
Speaker 13: abuse of power and every element of the presidency to
Speaker 13: try to do something to smear me. Everybody looked at
Speaker 13: this and everybody's looked at it and said, there's nothing there.
Speaker 2: Ask the right question, Ask the right question, Grandpa Need.
Speaker 2: That's not the right question, Chris. The right question is
Speaker 2: not did you speak with your son business? And the
Speaker 2: funniest thing too, he's like, you should be asking Trump.
Speaker 2: Do you know how many times people ask Trump? You
Speaker 2: think Trump never got to ask that question about the
Speaker 2: Ukrainian phone call? The perfectly what do you even think
Speaker 2: they call it the perfect phone call? Because he's been taught,
Speaker 2: he talked about it at nauseum all throughout his impeachment.
Speaker 4: He just didn't want to be asked. And I always think,
Speaker 4: you know, it's a tragedy. Do see.
Speaker 2: He really was the only one on that campaign trail
Speaker 2: who would ever ask him a damn thing about this.
Speaker 2: And it shows you once again why it is so
Speaker 2: important to press people on these things, even when it's uncomfortable,
Speaker 2: even when the media doesn't want.
Speaker 4: You to do it.
Speaker 2: Because he now said I never spoke to him. Now
Speaker 2: it's always never involved. Neither of both of those are incongruent,
Speaker 2: and it's very obvious to me that that's a flat
Speaker 2: out lie. I also think not enough people pay enough
Speaker 2: attention to the very first debate when Trump was going
Speaker 2: after Hunter, Biden and they reference actually the congressional report
Speaker 2: that came out from Senator Ron Johnson, which lists many
Speaker 2: of the accusations against Hunter, which I've all been verified
Speaker 2: now specifically by the IRS, but who he's getting money from.
Speaker 2: And Biden says again that not a single one thing
Speaker 2: in that report is true. I mean, the IRS is
Speaker 2: suing and prosecuting Hunter the Department of Justice for the
Speaker 2: exact business transactions that they validate inside of that report.
Speaker 2: That's another lie, you know, from the campaign trail. It's
Speaker 2: amazing to me the you know, the CNN, what is
Speaker 2: the Washington Post lie tracker or whatever? Where are you
Speaker 2: people now on this? He just disappears into the ether.
Speaker 2: I checked the CNN guy, the fact check guy. He's
Speaker 2: still on Trump for some reason. I mean, sure, you
Speaker 2: know Trump is running, but dude, you've got to be
Speaker 2: able to show like some semblance of like actual fairness
Speaker 2: in terms of the coverage.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I just think it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the one part of Biden's ran there
Speaker 1: that is fair is of course Box News in particular
Speaker 1: doesn't go after Trump in that way. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: find that clip, that whole SoundBite of him. It is
Speaker 1: like the perfect encapsulation of democratic politics and of like
Speaker 1: Biden era politics, where it's like, yeah, I'm not great,
Speaker 1: Yeah there might be problems there, but look at Trump.
Speaker 3: Look at Trump, Look at Trump, Look at Trump.
Speaker 1: That's the whole strategy. That's the whole thing right there,
Speaker 1: and that sound by that's the whole bit. So it
Speaker 1: is kind of amazing to watch it unfold.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean said it. He used to say
Speaker 3: it very very clearly.
Speaker 1: Never even spoke to Hunter about any of this, And
Speaker 1: I just, I mean, that was a lie. I just
Speaker 1: I just cannot believe that that is the case, and
Speaker 1: now we have increasing evidence that it was not the case.
Speaker 3: At the same time, there is.
Speaker 1: Some there are some machinations going on over within the
Speaker 1: House Republican Caucus about whether or not they want to
Speaker 1: move forward with impeachment against Joe Biden. Of course, you
Speaker 1: have put this up on the screen from Politico. You've
Speaker 1: got the more you know, sort of hard right part
Speaker 1: of the caucus very much in favor of it. You've
Speaker 1: got a number of moderates who are in Biden districts
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable with the idea of pushing forward with a
Speaker 1: Biden impeachment. McCarthy is trying to sort of walk the
Speaker 1: line right now of saying basically like, well, we might
Speaker 1: do an investigation impeachment, investigation that's different than an actual impeachment.
Speaker 1: So they haven't exactly put together what all this would
Speaker 1: look like. And you know, I mean on the impeachment piece.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because the thing that they're contemplating going after
Speaker 1: Biden on would be corruption. And there's a reason why
Speaker 1: Democrats didn't go after Trump on the many manifest incidences
Speaker 1: of corruption. Said they went did Russia and then you know,
Speaker 1: appropriately I think January six, but they didn't do corruption
Speaker 1: because they're all implicated in corruption. And so if the
Speaker 1: Republicans actually choose to go down this road of trying
Speaker 1: to impeach a president over actual corrupt dealings, that opens
Speaker 1: up a whole can of worms that frankly, I would.
Speaker 3: Be very happy to see opened up and.
Speaker 1: Applied across the board. But I'm not sure if they
Speaker 1: look at their own lives and their own sibling sons, daughters, cousins, brothers, aunts, whatever,
Speaker 1: business dealings, they might feel a little bit more uncomfortable with.
Speaker 1: So that's part of what to me is very intriguing
Speaker 1: about this prospect of the Biden impeachment.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you, Christal, if they cell phone themselves
Speaker 2: into making corruption an impeachable fence, go for it. And
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, let's set the historical precedent, let's get
Speaker 2: the trial, let's get the impeachment thing going.
Speaker 4: I'm loving it.
Speaker 2: I think a hell of a lot more people should
Speaker 2: be impeached. So look, they impeached Trump twice. The first one,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, was the biggest load of bs that
Speaker 2: we have seen yet in terms of impeachment. And you know,
Speaker 2: in particular they a lot of us said, I recall,
Speaker 2: you know, covering it at the time is like, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be you know, just ripping the band aid
Speaker 2: off for something like this because it can really come back.
Speaker 4: So bite you.
Speaker 2: And so again, if the Republicans, you know, want to
Speaker 2: continue to erode the norm around impeachment, open the door then,
Speaker 2: in the eyes of US history, to impeach people for
Speaker 2: actual corruption and not just let some ford you know,
Speaker 2: drama play out or you get pardoned after you leave office. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to resign and live in a multimillion dollar mansion in California.
Speaker 4: I'm all for it. I think it's right.
Speaker 1: So well, the other thing I will say is, and
Speaker 1: they even sort of acknowledge this, they don't exactly have
Speaker 1: the goods yet on Biden in terms of THEIRS suggestions,
Speaker 1: there's uncooperated evidence, there's this uncorroborated like intelligence report or whatever.
Speaker 1: They need to have more of a smoking gun direct
Speaker 1: tie in than what they have right now, I think
Speaker 1: on Biden in order for this to work out and
Speaker 1: for the American people to accept that this is a
Speaker 1: sort of legitimate direction. And then the other thing, which
Speaker 1: we've said before is like you know, with the Hunter stuff,
Speaker 1: and if you're gonna impeach Joe, like leave the dick
Speaker 1: picks out of it, it's it does not help your costs, right,
Speaker 1: And this is what you see on both.
Speaker 3: Sides of Aisle.
Speaker 1: Honestly, they radically overreach, and then the pieces that are
Speaker 1: actually legitimate seem like such small ball in comparison to
Speaker 1: the wild overreaching accusations that are made that the public
Speaker 1: then just looks at it and they're like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is it, Like I'm this is not a big deal
Speaker 1: to me. So after the Grand Conspira. I mean, Russia
Speaker 1: gets a perfect example. Like we were told there were
Speaker 1: pe tapes and all of this stuff, and that there
Speaker 1: was some like low level sketchiness. Is all that it
Speaker 1: amounts to, Like this is ultimately nothing based on what
Speaker 1: we were originally sold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean people may interpret what I said as
Speaker 2: saying that the first impeachment about the Zelenski phone call
Speaker 2: with Trump, you know, I said it was bs Yeah,
Speaker 2: as a matter of impeachment.
Speaker 4: I didn't say it was a good phone call.
Speaker 2: But like, you know, it's like you can judge things
Speaker 2: on their marriage, and we're like, yeah, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't think SIN should probably talk that way.
Speaker 4: Do I think you should be in peace over it? Hell?
Speaker 2: No, you know, And that's where you know, you it's
Speaker 2: just so good that they trying to sign historical gravity
Speaker 2: to things, and then they end up messing it up
Speaker 2: by really focusing on the most salacious for the worst
Speaker 2: parts of it.
Speaker 4: And then when those end up don't becoming.
Speaker 3: Sing outright making stuff up, rat.
Speaker 2: Stuff making things up, and then when those don't end
Speaker 2: up be true, and then the underlying acausey which can
Speaker 2: be bad, you know, but there are gradations of bad.
Speaker 2: And that's one of the actually things that we've lost
Speaker 2: not only in media, but in political discourse as well
Speaker 2: around how all this stuff goes down. So anyway, I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting important. It was a crazy day absolutely
Speaker 2: yesterday to watch all this full. I also got to
Speaker 2: say with the media too, they had no idea how
Speaker 2: to handle this, Like they would be like, you know,
Speaker 2: a slight hiccup or whatever it Hunter's legal proceed I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's not.
Speaker 4: A slight hiccup. I'm like, this is crazy to see.
Speaker 3: It's a disastrous day for him.
Speaker 1: I mean, he thought this, this was going to be
Speaker 1: it for him, like this was a done and and
Speaker 1: even if the you know, the judge does decide ultimately
Speaker 1: to accept this plea deal, even with this atypical portions,
Speaker 1: the fact that Farah is still hanging out there, that's
Speaker 1: the foreign you know, unregistered agent, lobbyist, whatever of that
Speaker 1: stuff that that's still hanging out there, that's a disaster.
Speaker 4: Is guilty as a sin on the Farah thing.
Speaker 2: There is no and if you are going to prosecute
Speaker 2: man Afford and I don't even remember what the other
Speaker 2: guy's name is. And I mean it's kind of like
Speaker 2: the document's case. How can you look at that set
Speaker 2: of facts and not prosecute the person under You have to,
Speaker 2: no matter what the last name is. So if they don't,
Speaker 2: it's going to be absolutely outraged.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: True.
Speaker 1: There was another really I mean dramatic, wild, scary, frankly
Speaker 1: disturbing moment that was unfolding on Capitol Hill, which is
Speaker 1: Sara Mitch McConnell came out to give a statement to
Speaker 1: the press. It was all going sort of according to plan,
Speaker 1: and then he just freezes mid sentence, stops talking for
Speaker 1: a full fifteen seconds, just total blank look on his face.
Speaker 3: Let's take a look at what that looked.
Speaker 12: Like a garden cooperation and a string of uh, okay.
Speaker 7: Anything else you want to say? I'm sure, let's go
Speaker 7: back to you. Do you want to say anything else.
Speaker 5: To the press?
Speaker 1: Come back, we'll take let's go back to so very
Speaker 1: difficult to watch, you know, he seems to be starting
Speaker 1: to slow down, He slurts his words, and then he
Speaker 1: just stops and just stares at the camera, and then
Speaker 1: Senator Barasso comes over. I don't know if you could
Speaker 1: hear what he said. He said basically like Mitch, do
Speaker 1: you have anything else you want to say to the
Speaker 1: press or do you want to go back to your office?
Speaker 1: And then after a pause, they sort of escort him out.
Speaker 1: Now he was able to come back after that a
Speaker 1: few minutes later, and understandably the press was I think
Speaker 1: was CNN's Manu Rajia like, what has happened?
Speaker 3: Are you okay? Let's take a listen to what he
Speaker 3: had to say.
Speaker 14: We've got Could you address what happened here at the
Speaker 14: start the press conference and.
Speaker 6: Was related to your injury from earlier this year when
Speaker 6: you suffered a concussion?
Speaker 12: Is that No, I'm fine.
Speaker 11: I'm fine.
Speaker 7: You're fully able to do your job.
Speaker 1: So he says, no, I'm fine, and me Mana Raja says,
Speaker 1: are you able to do your job?
Speaker 3: He's like, yep.
Speaker 1: So some of the context here, obviously, Mitch McConnell is
Speaker 1: eighty one years old.
Speaker 3: That's number one.
Speaker 1: Number two, there's reporting now that he's apparently been using
Speaker 1: a wheelchair quite a bit. Puts you around a wheelchair
Speaker 1: quite a bit to get around the Capitol, especially in
Speaker 1: crowded spaces.
Speaker 3: Number three, he.
Speaker 1: Suffered a concussion a while back that caused him to
Speaker 1: you know, be out of the Senate for a while.
Speaker 1: Number four, we're just learning this morning that apparently he
Speaker 1: suffered another fall just recently on July fourteenth, so you know,
Speaker 1: very in the past couple of weeks. He suffered a
Speaker 1: fall at Reagan National Airport. So I don't know what
Speaker 1: was going on with him health wise, And he's clearly
Speaker 1: not saying. He made some joke about it later that
Speaker 1: he got sandbagged in the same way that the President
Speaker 1: of the United States did. He referring to when the
Speaker 1: President fell on stage. But you know, falling on stage,
Speaker 1: like we understood the cause and effect of what there
Speaker 1: was a sandbag, you tripped over it. We have no
Speaker 1: idea what's going on here. And this is an incredibly
Speaker 1: powerful individual.
Speaker 2: Well, don't forget Cristel. He was also hospitalized not that
Speaker 2: long ago. It was actually in yeah, March ninth, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three, he was hospitalized for a few days after
Speaker 2: a fall at Washington Hotel during a private dinner and
Speaker 2: was treated for a concussion.
Speaker 4: And you know, you and I were talking about this
Speaker 4: this morning.
Speaker 2: It's difficult to be able to cover these things and
Speaker 2: not appear as if you're trying.
Speaker 4: To be mean. I am not trying to be mean
Speaker 4: in any of this.
Speaker 2: I actually feel a tremendous amount of pain to watch
Speaker 2: a person who is elderly, you know, on the cameras
Speaker 2: in a job like this, freeze up like that. That
Speaker 2: sounds not only humiliating, But if I was a relative
Speaker 2: of his, or if this I almost look at it
Speaker 2: like a grandfather, I'd be like, I'd be like, please
Speaker 2: stop doing this.
Speaker 4: Please.
Speaker 2: I am begging you. I am absolutely begging you to
Speaker 2: step down, to not put yourself through this. But and
Speaker 2: then we have to reconcile that that's when you're a
Speaker 2: private citizen. You're the most important Republican in the entire chamber.
Speaker 2: And he pointedly ignored two major questions yesterday which reporters
Speaker 2: asked him. They said, what happened right, and all he
Speaker 2: says is, quote, I'm fine. Then they go did you
Speaker 2: see a doctor? And he ignores the question and walks off.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but that's actually completely unacceptable. We cannot be
Speaker 2: having sceptaginearians like this be the leaders of the Republican
Speaker 2: Party in the Senate Chamber. It's really not fair to
Speaker 2: many of the people behind him, people like John Thune,
Speaker 2: who are number two in the Republican Party.
Speaker 4: Corny.
Speaker 2: I mean, these guys aren't spring chickens. They're like sixty,
Speaker 2: but they look like it compared to him. If you
Speaker 2: need to be, you know, rolled around in a wheelchair
Speaker 2: in private spaces, like should you really be in a
Speaker 2: vigorous job where you're flying back and forth between your
Speaker 2: home state and all this?
Speaker 4: And I think a lot of it is ego.
Speaker 2: They just cannot handle the idea that some people do
Speaker 2: need to step down, some people need to retire. Last
Speaker 2: time I checked, his wife is like a billionaire.
Speaker 4: Go relax, man. I mean you've been to Kentucky.
Speaker 2: I hear there's some nice places out there by one
Speaker 2: of those crazy estates on some hill somewhere, drink bourbon
Speaker 2: and sail off into the sun. It sounds like a
Speaker 2: great you know, last couple of years of your life.
Speaker 2: Why do you want to be doing this? And the
Speaker 2: answer is ego and power. And that's where we as
Speaker 2: a public have to demand that this does not become
Speaker 2: normalized for people who are in power.
Speaker 4: It has never been more starked.
Speaker 2: I have an eighty one year old president who regularly
Speaker 2: is tripping and can't find his word, this guy is
Speaker 2: having a full blown medical event. And then the crazy
Speaker 2: thing too, is, you know, do these people not care
Speaker 2: about his well being? Get his ass to a doc? Yeah, immediately,
Speaker 2: like why is he even coming? He doesn't get a
Speaker 2: say in those type things. We're like, no, the doc
Speaker 2: needs to come here right now because what's going on
Speaker 2: in his mind. He's like, oh my god, I gotta
Speaker 2: shore things up with the press. That's the least your problems.
Speaker 13: Man.
Speaker 1: You could die, right Yeah, yeah, I mean that was
Speaker 1: the very first thing he said, is that it's basically criminal.
Speaker 3: They didn't immediately take him to the hospital. I mean,
Speaker 3: imagine this.
Speaker 1: Was your mother, father, grandfather, grandmother, beloved elderly person, whoever
Speaker 1: they are, and they just complete freeze for that long.
Speaker 1: And the slurring of the words, it's very it's very disturbing.
Speaker 1: And then the broader piece here is so many of
Speaker 1: these frickin' people are so old, and you know what,
Speaker 1: if you're able to do the job, fine, God bless you,
Speaker 1: no problem. But the complete lack of transparency and all
Speaker 1: the efforts to keep the public in the dark about
Speaker 1: your actual capability of fulfilling the job. You know what
Speaker 1: if the public has total information and they're still like,
Speaker 1: all right, I still want this dude, you know, still
Speaker 1: would vote for this person. Then that's one thing, But
Speaker 1: we know the great lengths that they go to to
Speaker 1: hide any sign of aging and decline. We just covered
Speaker 1: yesterday Biden's aids having you know, he's having.
Speaker 3: To take the shorter stairs on Air Force One. They're
Speaker 3: trying to figure out all.
Speaker 1: Kinds of ways to shield from the public the realities
Speaker 1: of his age. And I think that that is incredibly wrong.
Speaker 1: Dianne Feinstein obviously, you know for years she has been
Speaker 1: declining mentally, and people have known it, and they have
Speaker 1: hidden it from the public, and she refused to debate,
Speaker 1: and you know, she's always being shepherded around and has
Speaker 1: someone right on her elbow to be able to tell
Speaker 1: her what she needs to say and even tell her you're.
Speaker 3: Voting this way on this bill.
Speaker 1: And still now it's gotten so bad that they can't
Speaker 1: possibly cover it up. I mean another thing that we
Speaker 1: actually paid attention to at the time, which I think
Speaker 1: is worth noting once again in terms of since we're
Speaker 1: having to read the tea leaves here and not get
Speaker 1: any actual information about Mitch McConnell's health. They passed in
Speaker 1: the Kentucky legislature back in twenty one. This is I
Speaker 1: think around the time when you know, Mitch McConnell was
Speaker 1: looking unwell and then he ultimately ends up being hospitalized.
Speaker 3: That would change the plan.
Speaker 1: The replacement plan if a United States Senator was to
Speaker 1: be was to pass away an office and have to
Speaker 1: have a replacement filled in. As it was previously, the
Speaker 1: governor would make that replacement with the governor of Kentucky
Speaker 1: is a Democrat, and so you know, Andy Basheer would
Speaker 1: very likely put a Democrat in that slot if that
Speaker 1: was to happen. So they changed the law so that
Speaker 1: it would go to the Kentucky Legislature, which is Republican
Speaker 1: run and domestically you know in the state at the
Speaker 1: state level, and people who are in the know there
Speaker 1: really thought that that was Mitch McConnell pushed this legislation
Speaker 1: through and they really thought this was about Mitch McConnell's
Speaker 1: declining health. So note worthy to put that out there
Speaker 1: now that we have this latest health incident, and you
Speaker 1: know the fact that they just stonewall, don't answer any questions,
Speaker 1: don't provide any transparency. It's really an affronted democracy. I mean,
Speaker 1: at bottom, that's what it is.
Speaker 2: No, it's and that's what I mean. It's it's it's
Speaker 2: so hard because my anger. You know, I'll get these
Speaker 2: very snarky messages from people who work let's just say,
Speaker 2: in and around McConnell, we're like, oh, this is not fair,
Speaker 2: it's not nice. I mean, they have the gall to
Speaker 2: tell the press immediately after he he you know, had
Speaker 2: a moment, he was sharp afterwards.
Speaker 4: Let me just say, that's not sharp.
Speaker 2: Don't bullshit me like that is where I just I'm
Speaker 2: just like, just level with me, man, right.
Speaker 4: Just let's just be real. Well, what's acknowledge reality?
Speaker 3: They said he was lightheaded.
Speaker 1: I've been light headed before, you know, get like low
Speaker 1: iron a little light headed. It doesn't look like that. Okay,
Speaker 1: it does not look like that. So stop bullshitting us, please.
Speaker 4: It drives me nuts.
Speaker 2: And the thing is is that they expect the public
Speaker 2: to just sit there and absorb it. And I will
Speaker 2: also say this, I was on Capitol Hill yesterday. There
Speaker 2: is far too chumming a relationship between the press and
Speaker 2: many of these these representatives. You can actually see we
Speaker 2: don't have the clip. There was a second clip that
Speaker 2: happened late last night whenever he went to them that
Speaker 2: he got sandbagged, How are you sir?
Speaker 4: And all that.
Speaker 2: Even typically you can tell that the guy feels bad.
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, did you see a doctor or anything?
Speaker 2: You should I mean, listen, I know this is uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: You need to be screaming in the man's face. You'd
Speaker 2: be like, listen, did you see a doctor or not?
Speaker 2: Are you gonna answer the question or he's gonna keep
Speaker 2: saying you're fine and get I understand it's a geriatric man.
Speaker 2: He just suffered a help event. It's super uncomfortable, but
Speaker 2: you have to put yourself out of that. You're the
Speaker 2: only people in that position, you know. Press access to
Speaker 2: where he was the gallery or whatever is very very
Speaker 2: tightly controlled, and so you're the only opportunity the American
Speaker 2: people have to actually get an answer here. Otherwise we're
Speaker 2: relying on his aids on background saying he was super
Speaker 2: sharp as you can see whenever he I mean, it's
Speaker 2: just just insanity that they want you to imbibe and
Speaker 2: to believe this stuff. But that's that's what living in
Speaker 2: Washington is like, is that they literally your.
Speaker 3: Face haunted gas lighting.
Speaker 1: This party's well into the next piece we wanted to
Speaker 1: show you, which is Fox News Digital went out and
Speaker 1: asked a bunch of voters, Hey, do you think that
Speaker 1: maybe if you're running for president you should have to debate?
Speaker 1: And voters felt very strongly in the affirmative that that
Speaker 1: should be a requirement.
Speaker 3: Take a listener a little bit of that. I think
Speaker 3: one hundred percent.
Speaker 15: If you don't know how someone's going to speak in
Speaker 15: a public setting in front of millions of people on
Speaker 15: TV and with other people asking them questions, and how
Speaker 15: do you know how they're going to react to when
Speaker 15: they're answered questions for millions of people and they're trying
Speaker 15: to talk to you know, the whole United States of America.
Speaker 15: Of course, I always think so, I think you get
Speaker 15: more of their point of views on things.
Speaker 3: Have you got?
Speaker 16: If you can't stand up for what you believe in
Speaker 16: and have a debate with somebody, you're out. We need
Speaker 16: to be able to hear why people have to say
Speaker 16: it before they can just run to be in charge
Speaker 16: of the most powerful country in the world, you know.
Speaker 4: So we have a lot of influence and we need
Speaker 4: someone who people can hear and be.
Speaker 16: Confident of one hundred percent. You should be able to
Speaker 16: defend any and every policy that you have or any
Speaker 16: question about of an existing policy, in any kind of
Speaker 16: a public debate where you can be asked questions that
Speaker 16: are not you're not getting softball pitches. There are questions
Speaker 16: that you've been told ahead of time. You need to
Speaker 16: be able to clearly and accurately have the discussion about
Speaker 16: policies that are affecting the entire country that you are
Speaker 16: going to be the lead or rather, if you're elected.
Speaker 1: Obviously voters are like, of course you should debate. And
Speaker 1: I have to say, Sager, if you call yourself a
Speaker 1: journalist and you aren't enraged and demanding out there just
Speaker 1: on the agenda of the people demanding that Trump and
Speaker 1: Biden subject themselves to public debates, neither.
Speaker 3: One of whom is the spring chicken.
Speaker 1: By the way, So it ties in very closely with
Speaker 1: the Mitch McConnell discussion that we just had.
Speaker 3: I don't know how you call yourself.
Speaker 1: A journalist if you just accept as like appropriate political
Speaker 1: strategy that of course they wouldn't debate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I obviously.
Speaker 2: I mean it's actually probably the biggest disconnect between just
Speaker 2: being a normal person or people who interact with normal people,
Speaker 2: and then the actual political class where like, of course
Speaker 2: not we're not going to debate. Everyone knows and wants
Speaker 2: and needs that moment that for politicians. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think it's actually ingrained luckily in our historical lore. I mean,
Speaker 2: one of the most important things that ever happened in
Speaker 2: modern American history were the Lincoln Douglas debates. Like when
Speaker 2: we think about these long drawn out questions that thousands
Speaker 2: of people would come to, such that the idea Lincoln
Speaker 2: Dougas even became its own event. I know some high
Speaker 2: schoolers who were watching this probably part I participated in.
Speaker 2: And it's a great format. And when you think back
Speaker 2: to how important those debates were. They were actually printed
Speaker 2: in pamphlets and they were distributed across the country and
Speaker 2: millions of people at that time. Imagine you're a farmer,
Speaker 2: you know, have a lot of access technology, entertainment, TikTok,
Speaker 2: and all of this sudden stuff, and this comes in
Speaker 2: the mail. You know, it's several months later and you're
Speaker 2: reading this like, hey, this is some great arguments around
Speaker 2: slavery and about the most important debates that are within
Speaker 2: the country. Luckily, that's kind of carried over. I think
Speaker 2: even to the most basic level if you go through
Speaker 2: somewhat of a Civics education and then you look at
Speaker 2: the current state and you're like, wait, this is this
Speaker 2: is all I got. I mean, you know, we had
Speaker 2: the first of all, we missed out on a debate
Speaker 2: last time because Trump got COVID, and then even on
Speaker 2: this one. You know, I've always loved the primary debates.
Speaker 2: I believe that Obama debated some night teen times before he.
Speaker 4: Got the demo. Wow, which is incredible.
Speaker 2: Actually, I mean, hey, it put him in fighting He's
Speaker 2: even said this, but I mean fighting shape for when
Speaker 2: I had to go up against McCain. Everyone remembers his
Speaker 2: disastrous first debate against Mitt Romney. And the reason why
Speaker 2: is because he's an arrogant prec who've been president four years,
Speaker 2: and it's like, turns out when you're in the bubble,
Speaker 2: it's like, when you're in the bubble, you have no
Speaker 2: idea what you're you know, how you really come off.
Speaker 4: And then in the second debate, you could see he
Speaker 4: was much more approachable.
Speaker 2: He took the time to like sit there and engage
Speaker 2: with you know, in terms of the audience member. Even
Speaker 2: though Candy Crowley put the what does it put the
Speaker 2: her finger on the scale for him, still have thought
Speaker 2: about that one I see I save governor crazy crazy
Speaker 2: crazy moment there still have I can't believe it's been
Speaker 2: more than decade.
Speaker 3: I know it is wold. You know I was. I
Speaker 3: was singing on too.
Speaker 1: It can seem like, oh, it's just sort of like
Speaker 1: entertainment these debates, you know, And I mean we do
Speaker 1: enjoy them in a sense like entertainment because we're weirdos
Speaker 1: and dorks. But it also does actually matter to get
Speaker 1: these people on the record. I mean, what do we
Speaker 1: show you earlier? Biden when he was on the campaign trip,
Speaker 1: getting pressed having to be put on the record specifically
Speaker 1: about Hunter Biden law and behold, that turns out to
Speaker 1: matter now. Biden also, I mean, the whole reason that
Speaker 1: he was pushed into having to say anything about student
Speaker 1: debt cancelation was because he was on a primary stage
Speaker 1: versus other opponents. It matters to get people on the record.
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi getting that question about the stock trading ban
Speaker 1: and being really revealing how she actually thinks about things,
Speaker 1: which is like, oh, it's just free market people should
Speaker 1: be able to participate. It matters getting people on the record,
Speaker 1: and as we have these super old men who are
Speaker 1: running for president and probably going to be the Republican
Speaker 1: and Democratic nominee, it also really matters to be able
Speaker 1: to see in some sort of a test of whether
Speaker 1: they're up to the rigors of the office as a
Speaker 1: piece of information to evaluate with all of the other
Speaker 1: pieces of information that exists. These things really do matter.
Speaker 1: So it is it is absolutely atrocious and such a
Speaker 1: sign of just utter decline in the country. That is
Speaker 1: very likely the two top contenders do not debate in
Speaker 1: their primaries, don't feel that they have to go out
Speaker 1: there and actually prove themselves to the American people. It
Speaker 1: is such an incredibly sad.
Speaker 3: State of effects.
Speaker 2: I would also disagree with the idea that debates are
Speaker 2: just for nerds. I mean some of the you know,
Speaker 2: the seventeenth primary debate. Yeah, but you know, I just
Speaker 2: looked at this up. Eighty four million people watched Trump
Speaker 2: and Hillary debate, Yeah, the first of it.
Speaker 3: And that's a major cultural event. People like Barbie right there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's wild.
Speaker 2: That is half the US adult population, you know, and
Speaker 2: you think also about the first twenty sixteen campaign debate
Speaker 2: that Trump participated in it. I mean, I'll never forget
Speaker 2: only Rosio.
Speaker 4: I literally will.
Speaker 2: Never forget that moment. I think politics changed a why
Speaker 2: day that he took that stage. I am thinking also
Speaker 2: there are a lot of debate moments, you know that
Speaker 2: still resonate rate And after the Prey said that, you know,
Speaker 2: actually that presses Trump in a lot of ways when
Speaker 2: we attack John King.
Speaker 4: And the media, I remember that one as well.
Speaker 2: The moments we just talked about Candy Crowley, you know,
Speaker 2: the all of these different things that we can think
Speaker 2: about Americans.
Speaker 4: Regular Americans do pay attention. You know, of the.
Speaker 2: Top twenty most viewed live events in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: only one of them was political. Nineteen others were sports.
Speaker 2: But it was the State of the Union. And by
Speaker 2: the way, that Say of the Union was boring as hell,
Speaker 2: but forty.
Speaker 4: Two million people watched it.
Speaker 2: So I think we should put more faith in people
Speaker 2: that if you do give them a reason, they will
Speaker 2: show up.
Speaker 4: You know, Americans are interested.
Speaker 2: They're not all like you know, we have this thing
Speaker 2: about how like, oh, everyone's checked out, and some of
Speaker 2: that is true.
Speaker 4: To a certain extent.
Speaker 2: But when you give people the opportunity, they do show
Speaker 2: up to watch, they at least tune in for a
Speaker 2: little bit to try and figure out what's going on.
Speaker 2: So anyway, I think people should get that opportunity. I
Speaker 2: think it's important for the for the republic. As people
Speaker 2: often say, all right, let's go to the next part here. Wow,
Speaker 2: big day yesterday had to hold it all in. This
Speaker 2: was the super Bowl. We had the UFO hearings that
Speaker 2: happened on Congress. I was there live in person on
Speaker 2: Capitol Hill. It was absolutely electric energy. I talked to
Speaker 2: some of the press people who were involved. They said
Speaker 2: they had rarely seen so many people who were interested.
Speaker 2: There were hundreds of people lined up outside, many of
Speaker 2: them breaking points fans. Shout out to all of you
Speaker 2: who I got to talk to a little bit yesterday.
Speaker 2: I think we should take this opportunity to just go
Speaker 2: through some of the most important events that happened during
Speaker 2: the hearing, if you're interested. Jeremy Corbell and I did
Speaker 2: a live reaction right outside of the Capitol that I
Speaker 2: referenced earlier in our show that's available currently on our
Speaker 2: YouTube channel. But to me, this moment's going to stick
Speaker 2: out above everything. It's what all the news outlets picked up.
Speaker 4: Backstory.
Speaker 2: I was sitting at the press table with all the
Speaker 2: other reporters, and when Dave Grush said the words nonhuman biologics,
Speaker 2: there was an audible gasp, not only at the press
Speaker 2: table but throughout the entire room. The energy was just
Speaker 2: absolutely insane. Here's the moment that I'm talking about. Let's
Speaker 2: take a listen.
Speaker 6: If you believe we have crashed craft stated earlier, do
Speaker 6: we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?
Speaker 6: As I've stated publicly already in my News Nation interview,
Speaker 6: biologics came with some of these recoveries.
Speaker 9: Yeah, were they I guess human or non human?
Speaker 4: Biologics?
Speaker 6: Non human? And that was the assessment of people which
Speaker 6: recknowledge on the program I talk to that are currently
Speaker 6: still on the program.
Speaker 2: So that's probably the biggest thing that came out of
Speaker 2: that crystal non human biologics. Now, okay, let's try and
Speaker 2: steal man the case, because I think that's always fun.
Speaker 2: That could mean anything, right, That could mean a rat,
Speaker 2: that could mean a dog. But it was clearly implied
Speaker 2: in the way that Dave Grush stated that that as
Speaker 2: the UFO whistleblower, testifying under oath under penalty of perjury,
Speaker 2: having represented all of this not only to news nation,
Speaker 2: but also entering it into the congressional record and also
Speaker 2: going through the whistleblower process, to say that we have
Speaker 2: recovered alien craft here used to say the word alien,
Speaker 2: but or extraterrestrial.
Speaker 4: He just says a non human origin.
Speaker 2: That these not only crash there, not only was a
Speaker 2: crash retrievement program, but that quote biologics were recovered then
Speaker 2: at the time. I mean, that's just one of the
Speaker 2: most stunning things that you really could say under oath
Speaker 2: before Congress in the UFO context. Obviously salacious, it has
Speaker 2: a little bit of the gegal factor, it has a
Speaker 2: little bit of the movie factor, and seems so unbelievable,
Speaker 2: And of course, you know, extraordinary claims do also require
Speaker 2: extraordinary evidence. But I'm curious what you made of that,
Speaker 2: or if any questions or anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just wild to watch members of
Speaker 1: Congress seriously asking these questions.
Speaker 3: I mean, that was wild to see.
Speaker 1: It is a remarkable development that this is being treated
Speaker 1: with the gravity that it is at this point, and
Speaker 1: I think obviously the turning point was when some of
Speaker 1: these videos were released. It just became undeniable, and Congress
Speaker 1: has clearly become increasingly frustrated at the stone walling that
Speaker 1: they feel like they are getting.
Speaker 3: I mean, one.
Speaker 1: Question I have for you, Sagre, maybe you can just
Speaker 1: set the context for people, is you know, he's making
Speaker 1: lots of allegations he wasn't directly involved in the program.
Speaker 1: This is based on what he's been told from people
Speaker 1: that are involved in the program.
Speaker 3: Well, why won't any.
Speaker 1: Of those people required to testify to be there so
Speaker 1: that we could have something more direct than secondhand testimony?
Speaker 4: Excellent question.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, is a full blown cover up going on so
Speaker 2: effectively Dave Grush, as I said, is he will go
Speaker 2: to jail if he violates the terms of his disclosure
Speaker 2: agreements with the Department of Defense where he is going
Speaker 2: through the formal whistleblower process. So he will be prosecuted
Speaker 2: if he reveals any classified information. So they repeatedly were
Speaker 2: asking him exactly before you said, They're like, look are
Speaker 2: who are these people? He said, I cannot give you
Speaker 2: those names in an unclassified setting, and so they said, oh,
Speaker 2: so you could give this to a c classified setting.
Speaker 4: He said, I would be happy.
Speaker 2: To give you the names, the specific names of both
Speaker 2: hostile and non hostile direct reports. I can give you
Speaker 2: the exact locations of crash UFOs where these programs are happening,
Speaker 2: the people involved, the dates when things are removed, et cetera.
Speaker 2: But I can only do that inside of a secure,
Speaker 2: compartmentalized facility called a skiff. There are several skiffs inside
Speaker 2: of Congress, Congressman Tim Burchett, who I actually personally spoke
Speaker 2: to before the hearing, as well as other members Matt Gates,
Speaker 2: Anna Paulina Luna, and Jared Mosquitz, who is a Democrat.
Speaker 2: Let's be clear here, so this is a bipartisan thing.
Speaker 2: That were denied access to the skiffs inside of Congress
Speaker 2: to be able to debrief Dave Grush and to be
Speaker 2: provided these unclassified names. Grush repeatedly said under oath, I
Speaker 2: am he's like I am dying. I would love to
Speaker 2: give you all this information, the names of the people
Speaker 2: to be called.
Speaker 4: He is literally.
Speaker 2: Unable to give them those names outside of an actual
Speaker 2: interview inside of a skiff. And those members of Congress
Speaker 2: who are actually pushing on this issue have been denied
Speaker 2: skiff access. So I think it's very important for me
Speaker 2: to explain that that there is a lot more. You know,
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, okay, well where is it. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: he will literally break the law, and as we all know,
Speaker 2: like they are dying to throw him in jail. They
Speaker 2: want to shut this man up. They keep calling him
Speaker 2: a liar. And I will get to that in terms
Speaker 2: of this statement that was released here, another of the
Speaker 2: absolutely extraordinary allegations that was made was under questioning from
Speaker 2: the congressman from Missouri about whether any US personnel had
Speaker 2: been physically injured while handling a crash UFO.
Speaker 4: Here's what Dave Grush had to say.
Speaker 17: At one point, you had said that there there has
Speaker 17: been harmful activity or aggressive activity. Has any of the
Speaker 17: activity been aggressive and hostile in your reports?
Speaker 6: I know of multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured,
Speaker 6: and uh the activity.
Speaker 17: By by UAPs or by by people within the federal government. Okay,
Speaker 17: so there has been activity by by alien or non
Speaker 17: human technology and or beings that has caused harm to humans.
Speaker 6: I can't get into the specifics in an open environment,
Speaker 6: but at least the activity that I personally witnessed, and
Speaker 6: not to be very careful here because you don't, you know,
Speaker 6: they tell you never to acknowledge trade craft, right, So
Speaker 6: what I personally witnessed myself and my wife was very disturbing.
Speaker 4: Very disturbing. I mean, I understand why people are skeptical.
Speaker 4: I get it.
Speaker 2: They're like, everyone talks about game. Where's the evidence here?
Speaker 2: He's made clear he can't actually talk about this in
Speaker 2: unclassified setting. I thought it was still extraordinary to get
Speaker 2: him on the record under oath, you know, and listen.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's also important for me to say,
Speaker 2: if this man is lying, no one is going to
Speaker 2: be more upset than me because he wasted a lot
Speaker 2: of my time.
Speaker 4: He wasted your guys's money.
Speaker 2: People will pay our bills from me going down there
Speaker 2: and for getting a camera crew from investing so much
Speaker 2: airtime and discussion to all of this. But he ticks
Speaker 2: enough box is for us to consider, at least me
Speaker 2: to be considered this credible enough, and not just me.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is the freaking House Oversight Committee here right,
Speaker 2: testifying under oath, bringing these guys in a setting where
Speaker 2: he could be able to actually face question. I mean
Speaker 2: face some hostile questions actually from a few people. And
Speaker 2: he also revealed something pretty interesting about the actual timeline. Now,
Speaker 2: remember UFO lore really begins, at least in the American context, Roswell,
Speaker 2: New Mexico in nineteen forty seven. But Grush actually told
Speaker 2: us that things pre date Roswell by a pretty significant portion,
Speaker 2: all the way to the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to what he said.
Speaker 14: There as a US government become aware of actual evidence
Speaker 14: of extra terrestro otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence, and if so,
Speaker 14: when do you think this first occurred.
Speaker 6: I like to use the term non human. I don't
Speaker 6: like to denote origin. Keeps the aperture open, both scientifically certainly,
Speaker 6: like I've discussed publicly previous nineteen.
Speaker 4: Thirties, previously nineteen thirties. So there you go. That is
Speaker 4: there's actually some extraordinary backstory.
Speaker 1: You and I were talking, Yeah, I mean, this is
Speaker 1: where I started to start to go, like, I'm definitely
Speaker 1: going to need some evidence because we're talking about cover
Speaker 1: up with the Vatican and Mussolini going back to the
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty I mean, there's just listen, it's a lot
Speaker 1: to swallow that's the bottom line.
Speaker 3: It's a lot to swallow. You're talking about.
Speaker 1: US personnel who are being injured by aliens and non
Speaker 1: human biologics and cover ups going back to the nineteen thirties,
Speaker 1: and we don't have more than like a few grainy images.
Speaker 1: We don't have more than someone who you know secondhand
Speaker 1: might have heard something but can't say exactly what it
Speaker 1: is in a public setting, which on the one hand
Speaker 1: you're like, cover up. On the other hand you're like,
Speaker 1: that's also very convenient. So I'm just going to need
Speaker 1: more soccer. Hopefully this is step one.
Speaker 4: We'll just say that. I think it's the beginning of something.
Speaker 2: And I again want to say, I want these people,
Speaker 2: if it's if they're lying, I want it to be
Speaker 2: speedily proved, to come out and just be like, this
Speaker 2: is bs. Everything that this man is saying is a lie.
Speaker 2: If he did lie, I want him to be prosecuted
Speaker 2: again for wasting my time, for wasting the entire community's time,
Speaker 2: for misleading people down this wild goose chase. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's not only a moral but illegal. Now that he's
Speaker 2: actually testified under oath and gone through the DoD process,
Speaker 2: so listen, I mean, we don't know fully yet whether
Speaker 2: everything he said or not. We know that there's some
Speaker 2: breadcrumbs that have been scattered in terms of where if
Speaker 2: they're eventually given skiff access by these members of Congress,
Speaker 2: and I will I got to give these people a
Speaker 2: lot of credit. You can say a lot about Matt Gates,
Speaker 2: but he does seem genuinely very interested in this topic.
Speaker 2: And part of the reason why Crystal is he shared
Speaker 2: a personal anecdote about how there was a UFO encounter
Speaker 2: at Elgin Air Force Base, of which one of his
Speaker 2: constituents contacted him and he was like, man, this is
Speaker 2: one of the craziest things that has ever happened to me.
Speaker 2: My radar went down, my fleer systems went down. I
Speaker 2: was able to snap a manual photo. He showed Gates
Speaker 2: the photo in this classified setting, the dood won't allow
Speaker 2: him to release the photo, and He's like, I'm sitting
Speaker 2: there trying to get access to a military base as
Speaker 2: a member of Congress with top secret clearance. He even
Speaker 2: served on the House Intelligence Committee, and the freaking United
Speaker 2: States military is telling me a congressman basically, screw off,
Speaker 2: We're not giving you any access He's like, that's an extraordinary,
Speaker 2: extraordinary situation for me to be in, you know, and
Speaker 2: these are one of my These constituents come to me
Speaker 2: in good faith because the pilot, this was a test
Speaker 2: pilot actually who encountered this told Gates the best thing
Speaker 2: you can do for your career is shut up and
Speaker 2: forget that this ever happened, because when you start reporting
Speaker 2: this stuff up the chain, they're like, hey, this is
Speaker 2: We're not dealing with this because they don't want to,
Speaker 2: you know, they don't want records.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but no records, You've got nothing to turn over
Speaker 4: to Congress.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I look at it.
Speaker 1: On the one hand, I'm like, this is a lot
Speaker 1: for me to swallow, as I just said. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, I'm like, but then I see the photos
Speaker 1: and the videos, and I'm like, they don't have.
Speaker 3: Another explanation for it.
Speaker 1: So give us some kind of explanation for what's going
Speaker 1: on that passes the sniff test, and.
Speaker 3: You know, perhaps we can move.
Speaker 2: This comes through also a Commander David Fraver's testimony. I
Speaker 2: thought it was so important, David Fravor is the only
Speaker 2: reason that I'm interested in UFOs. I thought it was
Speaker 2: bs frankly, and I read twenty seventeen article and I
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, maybe. Then I heard FRAVERR and I
Speaker 2: was like, man, this guy is unimpeachable. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is the like I've said this before, he was a
Speaker 2: commanding officer, led people into battle on an aircraft carrier,
Speaker 2: has a verified UFO incident. I mean, he himself called
Speaker 2: it the most credible UFO siding in history. He said
Speaker 2: multiple times at the hearing, he said, I'm not a
Speaker 2: UFO guy. This, by the way, is not even you know,
Speaker 2: the craziest thing's ever happened in my life. I never
Speaker 2: wanted to be involved in this. I never wanted to
Speaker 2: come forward. I'm only doing so because I believe that
Speaker 2: what I saw that day did not come from human technology.
Speaker 2: I mean, he repeatedly referenced that a human being who
Speaker 2: was inside the craft that he saw with his own
Speaker 2: eyes would have died from.
Speaker 4: The g forces that were inflicted and upon the way
Speaker 4: that it moved.
Speaker 2: And David Fraber, again a multi year you know, pilot
Speaker 2: in charge of one hundreds of millions of dollars of aircraft, said,
Speaker 2: on a number of basis, who's also involved, I believe
Speaker 2: in the field, you know at this moment is like,
Speaker 2: look from a material science perspective, this does not exist,
Speaker 2: and not only now, it doesn't exist hundred years from now,
Speaker 2: it doesn't exist two hundred years from now in terms
Speaker 2: of human capabilities. And then when you combine that with
Speaker 2: what Dave Grush said in many cases that many of
Speaker 2: these UFO crashtriable programs pre date you know, our own
Speaker 2: ability to fly at supersonic speed. I mean, we didn't
Speaker 2: even break the sound bearer. I believe Chucky Aeger did
Speaker 2: in like nineteen fifty something like that. So you know,
Speaker 2: farn post Roswell at the very list. Some people say
Speaker 2: that's connected anyway. I think it's important, and I just
Speaker 2: want to end actually with the statement though that the Pentagon,
Speaker 2: to be clear, is still saying that he's lying. So
Speaker 2: guys see five, please let's put this up there on
Speaker 2: the screen. This was the full readout from Susan Gough,
Speaker 2: who works at the Pentagon, who gave this statement on
Speaker 2: the who gave this statement on the testimony. She says,
Speaker 2: to date, the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office has not
Speaker 2: discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims any programs regarding
Speaker 2: the possession of reverse engineering of extraterrestrials may have existed
Speaker 2: in the past or exist currently. So again, this is
Speaker 2: actually very clear. The Pentagon says he's lying. Dave Grush says,
Speaker 2: the Pentagon is line, let's see if you can prove
Speaker 2: vice versa. One of those people lied with Congress. They
Speaker 2: need to go to jail for what they did. And
Speaker 2: I actually love that it's so binary here because eventually
Speaker 2: act you can prove whether one or two of those people,
Speaker 2: or whether one of these individuals is telling the truth
Speaker 2: or not. They've both done now so in an open setting,
Speaker 2: and yeah, we'll see. I mean, either this is a
Speaker 2: colossal I mean a colossal not only just like Psio,
Speaker 2: but like you know, stage and all this. I mean
Speaker 2: to have this man who literally worked in the intelligence
Speaker 2: community come forward. It's a decorated combat veteran served in
Speaker 2: Afghanistan Air Force cadet. So much of his military service.
Speaker 2: He referenced in his testimony. They're like, why are you
Speaker 2: doing this and he said he said, it's because he's
Speaker 2: like I took an oath, you know, eighteen years ago
Speaker 2: when I became an Air Force cadet. I followed that oath.
Speaker 2: I believe that there was a cover up going on.
Speaker 2: I'll just end on this note. You know, he says
Speaker 2: that he's been doing this at tremendous risk to his
Speaker 2: own life fear of reprie.
Speaker 4: Here's what you had to say.
Speaker 6: It was very brutal and very unfortunate some of the
Speaker 6: tactics they use to hurt me, both professionally and personally.
Speaker 6: To be quite frank, yeah.
Speaker 7: It's very unfortunate.
Speaker 14: As they say, when you're ope the target, that's when
Speaker 14: they do the most fire and attion. Do you have
Speaker 14: any personal knowledge of people have been harmed or injured
Speaker 14: in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology.
Speaker 6: Yes, personally.
Speaker 14: Have you have anyone been murdered that you would think
Speaker 14: that you know of or have heard of.
Speaker 7: I guess I have to.
Speaker 6: Be careful asking that question. I directed people with that
Speaker 6: knowledge to the appropriate authorities.
Speaker 3: In the last couple of years.
Speaker 4: Have you had incidences that have caused you to be
Speaker 4: in fear for your life for addressing these issues?
Speaker 6: Yes, personally, So.
Speaker 4: You could take that or any way that you want.
Speaker 4: I choose to take it actually pretty seriously.
Speaker 1: If it's real it's the biggest story in the world,
Speaker 1: So keep pushing, guys, can't stop. Alright, let's turn to
Speaker 1: some more terrestrial affairs here. Rudy Giuliani facing charges over defamation.
Speaker 1: He's in broiled in a lawsuit. There overcomes that he
Speaker 1: made about two Georgia election workers. Let's put this up
Speaker 1: on the screen. So it's kind of an extraordinary admission
Speaker 1: that he just made in a court filing. This is
Speaker 1: a Forbes tweet. They say, after about a year and
Speaker 1: a half of battling in the court room, Rudy Juliani
Speaker 1: stated Tuesday night that he lied about two Georgia election
Speaker 1: workers stuffing ballots committing election fraud, but did not say
Speaker 1: that he had caused any damages to them, despite harassment
Speaker 1: that the two had faced.
Speaker 3: This from the New York Times report. They say that.
Speaker 1: This concession by mister Giuliani came in court papers, and
Speaker 1: the basically he's admitting.
Speaker 3: That what he said about these people was.
Speaker 1: Completely wrong, but it was a complete lie that I mean,
Speaker 1: he smeared them and it happened multiple times, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But he's saying that he still has legal defenses because
Speaker 1: he doesn't believe that they suffered any damages, So that
Speaker 1: will be the major piece that they will be deciding
Speaker 1: in this lawsuit. So just so you get a sense
Speaker 1: of what allegations he was making about these two election
Speaker 1: workers that led to this defamation suit. Here he is
Speaker 1: on basically a zoom call talking about what he thinks
Speaker 1: was going.
Speaker 3: On in Georgia with these two election workers with stgalism.
Speaker 18: Quite obviously surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if their
Speaker 18: vials of heroin or cocaine. I mean, it's obvious to
Speaker 18: anyone who's a criminal investigator or prosecutor they are engaged
Speaker 18: in surreptitious illegal activity again that day, and that's a
Speaker 18: week ago, they're still walking around Georgia.
Speaker 1: Why so it's a bold accusation, basically comparing them to
Speaker 1: drug dealers. It was immediately debunked. They were passing mints
Speaker 1: back and forth to one another, nothing more nefarious than this.
Speaker 1: But nevertheless, he repeated it multiple times and it became
Speaker 1: a part of the whole litany of the case that
Speaker 1: the election was stolen. And it was also repeated and
Speaker 1: really taken in by the President who apparently invoked one
Speaker 1: of these women's name eighteen times during that infamous phone
Speaker 1: call with Brad Rathensberger, Georgia Secretary of State on jeduy second.
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1: That's the one where he asked for him to find
Speaker 1: the requisite number of votes for the former president to
Speaker 1: be able to win the state, which you know is
Speaker 1: leading to quite a bit of legal scrutiny for.
Speaker 3: Him as well. So, you know, I think it's important
Speaker 3: because it just shows you what a little croc this was.
Speaker 1: And it also shows you that many of the people
Speaker 1: involved Soccer knew it was a croc. Yes, and we're
Speaker 1: happy to ruin the lives of these women in pursuit
Speaker 1: of foisting a lie on the American people.
Speaker 2: I think it's actually not only criminal, I think it's
Speaker 2: disgusting because how many you know, well meaning Republicans out there,
Speaker 2: average goes. They hear Trump be like, wow, that's horrible.
Speaker 2: They hear the freaking former mayor of New York, one
Speaker 2: of them at the time, was one of the most
Speaker 2: respected politicians in the entire country talking about people passing
Speaker 2: USB's back and forth. You know, if you're one of
Speaker 2: those people, you had no reason not to believe or
Speaker 2: at least think, wow, that's a little bit crazy. How
Speaker 2: do you know whenever he's lying, or how many peoplere
Speaker 2: gonna watch this segment seeing that he admitted that he's
Speaker 2: a liar.
Speaker 4: That's why I think it's so gross.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know personally a lot of people, and
Speaker 2: I've had some crazy interactions. I remember a guy uber
Speaker 2: driver once he's like, do you really believe the election
Speaker 2: wasn't stolen? He's like, you just seem like a guy
Speaker 2: who would believe it. And I was like, well, I
Speaker 2: guess I could understand why you would think that, but
Speaker 2: I had laid out, you know, the cases they lost,
Speaker 2: every single one. He's like, yeah, but these judges, you know,
Speaker 2: that's rigged. I'm like, really, it's rigged, and like across
Speaker 2: like all these Red states actually.
Speaker 4: With all this.
Speaker 3: Judges and whatever people have thrown it out.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, that's kind of interesting, and then all
Speaker 2: of them, inevitably it comes back to Giuliani and it's like, no,
Speaker 2: but Rudy Giuliani said this stuff, So I don't think
Speaker 2: he could really, you know, underestimate how important Juliani was
Speaker 2: to the lore of stop the Steal in a lot
Speaker 2: of these people's minds. And that's why I think it's
Speaker 2: it's particularly discussing what he did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's absolutely right.
Speaker 1: He used the credibility that he built up as America's
Speaker 1: mayor not only to try to mislead the entire country.
Speaker 1: And let's be clear, some sixty to seventy percent of
Speaker 1: the Republican base still believes that the election was stolen
Speaker 1: based on things like this, him alleging that these two women,
Speaker 1: mother and daughter, were passing usb ports back and forth,
Speaker 1: when really they were passing mints back and forth. And
Speaker 1: again he knew that, he knew it, and he lied
Speaker 1: to you about it because it served his purposes at
Speaker 1: the time. It is utterly and completely disgraceful, and it
Speaker 1: also enrages me. I mean, these are just two regular
Speaker 1: women who it is a genuine civic duty to show
Speaker 1: up and work the polls. You don't get paid for it.
Speaker 1: It's a pain in the ass. You got to deal
Speaker 1: with all kinds of you know, people who have whatever
Speaker 1: going on. It's a whole thing. And they were willing
Speaker 1: to do it. They were there State Farm Arena, Fulton County,
Speaker 1: doing the thing late at night, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 1: and they were, you know, subjected according to what they
Speaker 1: have to say, and I completely believe it because I
Speaker 1: remember hearing this claim at the time. I mean, this
Speaker 1: was like one of the core things that was being
Speaker 1: circulated within the circles that were believing this stuff.
Speaker 3: They say their.
Speaker 1: Lives have been completely upended, you know, private citizens who
Speaker 1: now are being accused of this incredible, nefarious crime just
Speaker 1: casually by a very powerful individual. So it really is
Speaker 1: discussing that. The other piece of this is there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of conjecture about what exactly is going on
Speaker 1: with Giuliani right now, we of course are back on
Speaker 1: Trump indictment watch. Looks like the Jack Smith investigation into
Speaker 1: what happened on January sixth and fake elector scheme that
Speaker 1: may be drawing to a close. We may get charges
Speaker 1: in that relatively soon. And Giuliani has been talking to
Speaker 1: the government about whatever he knows with regard to that,
Speaker 1: and there was some question over whether Giuliani may have
Speaker 1: flipped and maybe providing information the government may be working
Speaker 1: out his own deal. He denies it, to be clear,
Speaker 1: but I think there's still a bit of a question
Speaker 1: mark there.
Speaker 3: And the other question mark on that front, as Mark meadows.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well, Meadows in particular.
Speaker 2: Actually, there was a video circulating yesterday where he was
Speaker 2: walking into his office and he was repeatedly asked, you know,
Speaker 2: whether he had like whether he had any comment about
Speaker 2: the case and the grand jury and all that. And
Speaker 2: you know, there were some federal prosecutors who said that
Speaker 2: given his level of non response, and he'd certainly seemed
Speaker 2: like somebody who could be cooperating with the government. Apparently
Speaker 2: Trump's own people think he's cooperated with the government.
Speaker 4: So who the hell knows what's going on there?
Speaker 2: And you know, as a reminder, as the former White
Speaker 2: House sheep of staff that we're talking about here, or
Speaker 2: it would have been extraord I mean, he was in
Speaker 2: the room like when a lot of that stuff was
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 1: He was inte corol. I mean, he really was at
Speaker 1: the center of it. So we'll keep our eye on
Speaker 1: that one. We also have an extraordinary glimpse into whatever
Speaker 1: is going on inside the White House with regard to
Speaker 1: their dogs. So this is it's really it's honestly sad.
Speaker 1: So put this up on the screens from the New
Speaker 1: York Post. This was some records that were revealed through
Speaker 1: a Freedom of Information Act.
Speaker 3: Request Biden's dog. This is the younger one.
Speaker 1: Commander sent a Secret Service officer to the hospital and
Speaker 1: has been six others after replacing.
Speaker 3: They say.
Speaker 1: The first pooch Major Major had, I think was also
Speaker 1: German shepherd the same breed, and also had to be
Speaker 1: removed from the residence because of some aggressive incidents.
Speaker 3: But what was revealed through this Freedom.
Speaker 1: Of Information Act request was that Commander has been seven
Speaker 1: people in a four month span after Major was ousted
Speaker 1: over similar aggressive behavior. The shocking spate of incidents, none
Speaker 1: of them previously reported. Mirrors attacks involving Major, who the
Speaker 1: White House says was given to family friends after biting
Speaker 1: Secret Service members in twenty twenty one. In the most
Speaker 1: serious of the incidents that were documented, the White House
Speaker 1: Physician's office on November third had to refer a Secret
Speaker 1: Service officer to a local hospital for treatment after Commander
Speaker 1: clampdown on their arm and i. According to emails released
Speaker 1: under that Foyer request, Commander broke the skin of a
Speaker 1: different Secret Service member's hand and arm weeks later after
Speaker 1: the President unleased him outside the White House following a
Speaker 1: family movie night. Communications indicate in the following month, Commander
Speaker 1: bit the back of a security technician at Biden's Wilmington,
Speaker 1: Delaware home. So seven different bites in a four month span, so.
Speaker 4: I have a lot.
Speaker 2: First of all, for anybody who's accusing us, this is
Speaker 2: the fun block. Everybody knows that, so let's just keep
Speaker 2: putting on the end. But I did a little bit
Speaker 2: of research into this. I know people for.
Speaker 3: These super service officers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well for the service and that's kind of
Speaker 2: what I want to talk about, which is I know
Speaker 2: a lot of people who own German shepherds, so I
Speaker 2: actually talk to them about it, and I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: what's going on here? Every single one of them pointed
Speaker 2: to this that when you have two successive dogs that
Speaker 2: are both involved in biding incidents under your ownership, yeah,
Speaker 2: something's wrong with you. These are not breeds which are
Speaker 2: known for just being aggressive like this. Maybe they can
Speaker 2: go a little bit wild and they can get like
Speaker 2: this if they're untamed. But really what they all pointed
Speaker 2: to is like bees are and look, I don't have
Speaker 2: any inside knowledge, but based on people I know who
Speaker 2: own German shepherds, I know a lot of people with
Speaker 2: German shepherd This some of the sweetest dogs in the world.
Speaker 2: They need a little bit of training. They need to
Speaker 2: kind of like you've got to force them, not but
Speaker 2: you need to be forcible I think in terms of
Speaker 2: your direction and all that you have. And sometimes actually
Speaker 2: the breeders who sell German shepherds or give German shepherds,
Speaker 2: they require you to put the dog through training specifically
Speaker 2: to avoid incidents like this because they know that if unchecked,
Speaker 2: that this can happen. So unfortunately. I actually think it
Speaker 2: is clear that there's just a sheer carelessness going on
Speaker 2: in the Biden household where they appear just like not
Speaker 2: to want to spend the time or even this is
Speaker 2: the thing, you guys, people have a lot of money.
Speaker 4: We all know that.
Speaker 2: You know, thanks to the whole hunter situation, why don't
Speaker 2: you just spend the money that a normal middle class
Speaker 2: family buying a German shepherd or getting a German.
Speaker 4: Shepherd would do.
Speaker 2: This is just standard operating procedure here, or it could
Speaker 2: say this is another thing they all pointed to, that
Speaker 2: the dog is criminally under exercised and is not being
Speaker 2: taken care of properly. We know, for dog size, you
Speaker 2: probably gotta walk that thing five miles a day. I
Speaker 2: can forgive the president for not having the time to
Speaker 2: do that. But you have a lot of people who
Speaker 2: work for you who could go do it for you.
Speaker 2: So at the very least, it's more like a lack
Speaker 2: of attention to that. And look, I can't help as
Speaker 2: a pet owner, and you know, I have a dog
Speaker 2: and I'm a cat and I can't help. But just
Speaker 2: think frankly less of people who don't do that. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like whenever you have I lived in an apartment
Speaker 2: at one time and I knew a guy who had
Speaker 2: one of those Alaskan huskies and he kept the husky
Speaker 2: in the house and I just remember being like, I'm
Speaker 2: like he was a nice guy, but I'll never forget that.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you put that freaking dog in an apartment
Speaker 2: all day. That's not cool, man. This is like a
Speaker 2: vanity project. So you can get cool Instagram photos with
Speaker 2: an Alaska husky, and like you got to think about
Speaker 2: the dog's welfare, like he could walk this thing. It
Speaker 2: needs actual space and you willingly like brought it into
Speaker 2: this situation. If you don't have the time or the
Speaker 2: resources for it, then you shouldn't be handling that.
Speaker 4: And Glenn Greenwalld has talked about this as well.
Speaker 2: He's very involved in dog rescue and all that. There's
Speaker 2: unfortunately a massive spike of people who are returning dogs
Speaker 2: or giving up dogs, or abandoning dogs because they got
Speaker 2: them during the pandemic and then they didn't do you know,
Speaker 2: or they didn't want to do the actual work to
Speaker 2: take care of a dog, you know, in the long run.
Speaker 2: You know, this is supposedly supposed to be a lifelong commitment.
Speaker 2: It's like a blood contract in a way between.
Speaker 4: You and this animal.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I mean that's just on a personal level.
Speaker 2: You can't help but observe here. Like you know that
Speaker 2: everyone always says like it's not the dog, it's the owner.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's always the case. But when you
Speaker 2: have two incidents like this that happened back to back,
Speaker 2: can't help us say there's something going on inside that house.
Speaker 1: Put this next piece up on the screen, which was
Speaker 1: some reporting at the time about Major Biden being sent
Speaker 1: away for offsite private training. And by the way, they
Speaker 1: say that Commander is going to undergo additional training as well,
Speaker 1: and that they're setting up new dedicated exercise areas and
Speaker 1: new leashing protocols to try to keep Secret Service safe
Speaker 1: when they're around him. First of all, I liked this
Speaker 1: quote Biden's Major is sweet and loved by eighty five
Speaker 1: percent of the people he meets at.
Speaker 3: Well, it was not a great proportion.
Speaker 1: But what I found interesting in this article is they
Speaker 1: interviewed someone who was a professional trainer who number one
Speaker 1: took some issue with the type of training that they
Speaker 1: were getting for Major. They didn't think that it was
Speaker 1: the sort of you know, they thought that a different style.
Speaker 3: Of training might be better. I don't know, but they.
Speaker 1: Did say, this is a dog who, through genetics and
Speaker 1: early lack of good experience, because Major had been a
Speaker 1: shelter dog, has probably developed mistrust of certain.
Speaker 3: Types of people. And German shepherds, they said.
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize this are the number one biting
Speaker 1: breed in the country. Though they tend not to bite hard,
Speaker 1: most of the German shepherds that this trainer says they
Speaker 1: have seen over the past thirty years have anxious, suspicious dispositions.
Speaker 1: So it may be the case that this is a
Speaker 1: particularly difficult dog breed to have in an environment that
Speaker 1: is like the White House, which is tons of people
Speaker 1: in and out and lots of different folks sense, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: it does make sense that this may be a particularly
Speaker 1: difficult type of breed to have in this type of setting.
Speaker 1: So but then I don't know why after the first
Speaker 1: incident you choose this breed again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have a responsibility not only to the dog
Speaker 2: first of all, you know, I mean.
Speaker 1: This dog is imhouldna be happy in this type of environment.
Speaker 1: That don't bring them into this type of environment.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 2: And then also listen, I mean, and I hate to
Speaker 2: say this, but you know, if you are a normal
Speaker 2: person and your dog bites two people, that dog is
Speaker 2: going down.
Speaker 4: I think everybody knows that.
Speaker 3: I mean, after one.
Speaker 2: It's really usually I think they usually give you I
Speaker 2: forget exactly. I think it's state by state and also
Speaker 2: in terms of localities as well, what the rules are.
Speaker 2: But like, if you have one reported incident, that's already bad,
Speaker 2: like bad, especially if you drop blood. But if you
Speaker 2: have two and you send somebody to the hospital at
Speaker 2: least here, Like I know this because I got bitten
Speaker 2: by a dog by somebody and actually they told me,
Speaker 2: they're like, hey, you need to go report.
Speaker 4: I actually didn't do it because I felt I was like.
Speaker 3: I can't be responded.
Speaker 4: I can't flood on my.
Speaker 2: Hands, like even those dog that pounced on me and
Speaker 2: bit into my leg, but they were like, hey, that dog,
Speaker 2: you know, like we really need to you know, you
Speaker 2: need to contact animal control. They're going to go and
Speaker 2: investigate this incident, and it will ultimately likely you know,
Speaker 2: result in being the dog being like forcibly put down.
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'm just saying, you know, also in turns,
Speaker 2: it shows you that you know the special treatment I
Speaker 2: think that they're getting, which you know, a lot of
Speaker 2: people have to deal with this, and a lot of
Speaker 2: people take a lot more care apparently than the First
Speaker 2: family on this. And yeah, I mean I would just
Speaker 2: say on a personal level, I definitely think less of
Speaker 2: them for having two dogs now in this incident and
Speaker 2: then not taking the care necessary for their employees. I mean,
Speaker 2: these people, like you think the circuit service guy wants
Speaker 2: to be there all day, you know, you think I
Speaker 2: know some of these guys from when I worked on
Speaker 2: the White House grounds. They're sitting there in full body
Speaker 2: armor in a hundred degree heat, sometimes like with a
Speaker 2: machine gun, sitting in a bush, just literally wasting away
Speaker 2: in the heat, Like, the last thing that guy needs
Speaker 2: to deal with is a.
Speaker 3: Dog who's worrying about it.
Speaker 4: He's worrying about the dog.
Speaker 3: Seven people in four months.
Speaker 1: And then, by the way, in the report, they do
Speaker 1: have text messages back and forth from you know, one
Speaker 1: of them saying, like, commander charged me very aggressively. I
Speaker 1: think it's only a matter of time before someone gets bitten.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so to me, that's maybe one of the
Speaker 1: bigger pieces here is how is it that we've had
Speaker 1: seven bites in a four month span and it had
Speaker 1: to be brought to the public before it's really dealt with.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, there you go, Crystal, and take a look
Speaker 4: at wow.
Speaker 1: In a brand new interview, Abigail Disney, granddaughter of Walt
Speaker 1: and heiress to the Disney fortune, had a pretty blunt
Speaker 1: message for current Disney CEO Bob Iger. Now Aiger has
Speaker 1: recently come under fire for some absolutely trash comments he
Speaker 1: made about striking actors and writers, saying their demands were
Speaker 1: quote unreasonable, all of this while he canoodled at the
Speaker 1: Sun Valley, Idaho Billionaire Boys Club. Well additional context for
Speaker 1: Iiger's outrageous comments here, he earns sixty five million dollars
Speaker 1: per year paces work are such low wages that some
Speaker 1: have actually been forced into homelessness. Here's Abigail reacting to
Speaker 1: Aigre's comments and the fact that his pay is one
Speaker 1: four hundred and twenty four times the pay of the
Speaker 1: median Disney employee.
Speaker 4: Quote.
Speaker 3: If you have sixty five.
Speaker 1: Million in your pocket and there are people in your
Speaker 1: company who are a struggling to put food on the table,
Speaker 1: that should not feel good to you. You shouldn't be
Speaker 1: able to sleep well at night. I woke up one
Speaker 1: day and realized that, just by virtue of being bored lucky,
Speaker 1: I had so much more than everyone else. And I
Speaker 1: don't think I've slept well since I figured that out.
Speaker 1: And to her credit, Abigail has increasingly used her visibility
Speaker 1: as a wealthy and connected person into more and more
Speaker 1: radical activism. Actually been watching her trajectory for a while,
Speaker 1: and while many put away radical politics as they age,
Speaker 1: she has actually been pushing herself into more and more activism.
Speaker 1: She was recently arrested for the first time as part
Speaker 1: of a climate change protest against private jet travel.
Speaker 3: She had a group of activists blocked.
Speaker 1: The East Hampton Airport, where the nation's billionaire class boards
Speaker 1: and deeplanes from their private jets. A just cause, if
Speaker 1: ever there was one, given the number of stars and
Speaker 1: billionaires who wring their hands about climate change and then
Speaker 1: casually spew a million times more emissions into the air
Speaker 1: than the average human. I am not exaggerating here either,
Speaker 1: as Abigail actually points out and OXFAM study estimates that
Speaker 1: billionaires literally emit a million times more than the average person.
Speaker 3: And guess what, guy.
Speaker 1: She also walks the walk, or more accurately, flies the
Speaker 1: commercial flight, putting to shame the petty protestations of those
Speaker 1: who would have us believe it's just too much.
Speaker 3: Of a burden for the rich to fly with the
Speaker 3: rest of us.
Speaker 1: Chumps to Rolling Stone, she specifically calls out megastars Leonardo
Speaker 1: DiCaprio and who start and don't look up but still
Speaker 1: blast around on his private jet, and Taylor Swift, who
Speaker 1: apparently tops the list of private jet travelers. Abigail Disney's
Speaker 1: commitment to being a class trader is admirable. It also
Speaker 1: serves as an example for the many a less celebrities
Speaker 1: who have absented themselves from the class struggle that is
Speaker 1: happening in their own industry. Because while Abigail's actions shouldn't
Speaker 1: matter any more than those of the young climate activists
Speaker 1: who organized the protests and who she was arrested alongside,
Speaker 1: this is America. The reality is people with wealdon status
Speaker 1: have a whole lot more power in Cloud than your
Speaker 1: average individual, and because of this, it's been disappointing to
Speaker 1: see how few of the top actors have shown up
Speaker 1: to stand in solidarity with their underpaid brothers and sisters.
Speaker 1: A prominent sag after member told Variety, there's been a
Speaker 1: palpable lack of headliners. If our stars were all out
Speaker 1: there and forced advocating for us, we would know it
Speaker 1: in a sign of rank and file frustration in a
Speaker 1: union where your average member is pulling in about twenty
Speaker 1: six k annually. One picketter actually held up a sign
Speaker 1: that read where the f is ben Affleck, The normally
Speaker 1: politically outspokens love has yet to show up for any
Speaker 1: of the pickets.
Speaker 3: Think of how much cultural cachet these people have.
Speaker 1: Golden opportunity to advocate for not only their own industry
Speaker 1: but all workers. There have been some exceptions, though, in
Speaker 1: the power of the words of these recognizable figures shows
Speaker 1: just how important their active participation actually is, not to
Speaker 1: mention what it would mean to their union brothers and sisters.
Speaker 1: Here's Arian Loyd, the actor who played Stewie in Succession,
Speaker 1: absolutely ripping into the studio.
Speaker 3: Bosses, take a listen.
Speaker 19: We deserve a living wage, we deserve breaks, We deserve
Speaker 19: to work together to make beautiful arts so people can
Speaker 19: enjoy it. It's like these people haven't seen fucking succession.
Speaker 4: Which about you.
Speaker 20: The most important thing that we can do right now
Speaker 20: as a unit, as a group is to keep together.
Speaker 20: They're going to try to divide us.
Speaker 4: They're going to try to tell us this, that.
Speaker 20: And the other. All we can do right now is
Speaker 20: show up, care be here, picket post keep posting, make stories,
Speaker 20: tell people about this.
Speaker 4: That's the only thing that we can do.
Speaker 20: United, we will beat them. I am so proud to
Speaker 20: be an actor and so proud to be in this union.
Speaker 3: Here we go show up and pick it now.
Speaker 1: The reason I'm highlighting these class traders is not because
Speaker 1: they're more important than the active that's who are pushing
Speaker 1: for better at great sacrifice without the safety net of
Speaker 1: their wealth every single day, but frankly because I'm a
Speaker 1: little bit at my wits end of how change can
Speaker 1: even really come. Since the financial crash, we've had a
Speaker 1: series of working class uprisings on a fairly regular basis,
Speaker 1: and the best we can really show for it is
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars a student debt cancelation that got killed
Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court. You want to talk about failures
Speaker 1: of democracy, the fact that Washington, regardless of who is
Speaker 1: in power, systematically towards the consistently demonstrated.
Speaker 3: Desires the people is that the top of that list.
Speaker 1: If the actors strike can get wealthy and influential actors
Speaker 1: to care about labor, that would be amazing. If Abigail
Speaker 1: Disney can single handedly shame her fellow wealthy elite, may
Speaker 1: be a handful of committed class traders are the breakthrough
Speaker 1: We actually need to cut working people in on America's prosperity.
Speaker 1: Abigail told Rolling Stone, quote, we need to question this
Speaker 1: notion that capital only belongs to owners.
Speaker 3: When we can't achieve anything without workers.
Speaker 1: We're doing capitalism wrong, and we're going to kill ourselves
Speaker 1: in the process unless we rethink it. If even one
Speaker 1: percent of the one percent had that awakening, that could
Speaker 1: be a whole revolution, and it just struck me, Soger,
Speaker 1: how it shouldn't be this way. New piece in New
Speaker 1: York mag that caught our attention. Lists put this up
Speaker 1: on the screen. The headline here is AOC is just
Speaker 1: a regular old Democrat now charting her course from potential
Speaker 1: revolutionary to just another mon of the Democratic Caucus. And
Speaker 1: author of that piece joins us now, Freddy Debor. He
Speaker 1: is a writer and also author and has a new
Speaker 1: book coming out we're very excited about titled how Elites
Speaker 1: eight the Social Justice Movement that is going to be
Speaker 1: dropping this fall.
Speaker 4: Freddy, Great to see you, Good to see you man.
Speaker 7: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, our pleasure.
Speaker 1: So I think my first question for you is just,
Speaker 1: you know, we've sort of seen this trajectory from AOC
Speaker 1: for a while. Now, what was it that inspired you
Speaker 1: to write this piece right at this moment?
Speaker 18: You know?
Speaker 7: I think that.
Speaker 21: For me in particular, as I try to sort of
Speaker 21: point out with the piece, people don't just sort of
Speaker 21: betray some sort of fundamental idea like one time. I mean,
Speaker 21: certainly there can be particular moments when you sort of
Speaker 21: go mask off and show who you are. But to me,
Speaker 21: it's a steady accumulation of things that I think don't
Speaker 21: sort of fit with the rhetoric about AOC in her
Speaker 21: actual specific voting behavior. So one of the things I
Speaker 21: tried to do is just refer to very specific moments
Speaker 21: of things that she did on the floor of Congress
Speaker 21: as a legislator and say, these don't sort of comport
Speaker 21: with what she sort of just portrayed as and what
Speaker 21: she has portrayed herself as. But also in a big
Speaker 21: part of the pieces, the piece is less intended to
Speaker 21: be sort of AOC is a trader, and it's more
Speaker 21: supposed to be sort of saying like, I don't know
Speaker 21: what the coherent sort of ideological perspective is that underlines
Speaker 21: her actual voting.
Speaker 7: Behavior and the way that she acts in Congress.
Speaker 21: If there's anything that I think for me represents the
Speaker 21: thing that really turned my own stomach about her, it's
Speaker 21: when she voted to forbid railway rikers workers.
Speaker 7: Excuse me from the right to strike.
Speaker 21: Because that is to me, you know of black letter
Speaker 21: socialist slash lefty slash radical stuff, is that you simply
Speaker 21: do not forbid about workers their right to strike. We
Speaker 21: just saw ups workers get a much better deal than
Speaker 21: what they had initially been offered because they had a
Speaker 21: credible right to strike that would have cost their company
Speaker 21: billions of dollars. And so that to me, if there's
Speaker 21: any one thing, but for me, it's just more a
Speaker 21: steady sort of accumulation of noticing that there just aren't
Speaker 21: a lot of behaviors that reflect any kind of coherent
Speaker 21: plan going on, and then appearing on odd Save America
Speaker 21: to endorse Joe Biden.
Speaker 7: Number one, you don't have to endorse at all.
Speaker 21: Your endorsement is not going to change any votes. Probably,
Speaker 21: I mean the number of people who are saying, I'm
Speaker 21: going to vote for RFK, but then AOC endorse Biden,
Speaker 21: so I'm going to switch my.
Speaker 7: Vote as minimal.
Speaker 21: If you have to endorse, you can send out a
Speaker 21: one sentence.
Speaker 7: Press release and do it that way.
Speaker 21: Right, just a few days before AOC made that appearance,
Speaker 21: the pod Save America bros had a moment where they
Speaker 21: were actively laughing, I mean literally like convulsing in laughter
Speaker 21: at the idea that they should have to appeal to
Speaker 21: left voters, that persuasion with left voters is necessary. And
Speaker 21: so for me, that kind of crystallizes this sense that
Speaker 21: AOC is part of a perspective where, however benevolent, many
Speaker 21: of our impulses may be, the Left is owned by
Speaker 21: the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party never has to offer
Speaker 21: us anything for our votes, and that if we don't
Speaker 21: vote for the Democratic Party it must be because we
Speaker 21: love Trump.
Speaker 2: So, Freddie, what are some of the jump off points
Speaker 2: that you can point to, both in the piece and
Speaker 2: throughout the career where we started to see, like you said,
Speaker 2: mask off you reference to rail strike, does it pre
Speaker 2: date that?
Speaker 4: What do you think? Yeah?
Speaker 21: I mean for me, just in terms of just not
Speaker 21: knowing what she's doing. The vote about the Israeli Iron
Speaker 21: Dome funding, which is Israel's missile defense shield that the
Speaker 21: United States pays for, as the United States pays for
Speaker 21: a huge portion of Israel's military machine. To me, that's
Speaker 21: a problem, not just because she didn't vote the way
Speaker 21: that I wanted to, because I have just no idea
Speaker 21: what she's doing and with her vote.
Speaker 7: So for those who don't know.
Speaker 21: When that vote came up, there were a couple of
Speaker 21: people who have been talking about voting against it. She
Speaker 21: cried on the floor of Congress in solidarity with Palestinian people.
Speaker 21: And then when the upper down yes or no vote
Speaker 21: came up to vote for or against funding the Iron Dome,
Speaker 21: she voted present. Now for one thing, right, I don't
Speaker 21: like that because I want her to vote no, because
Speaker 21: I support the Palestinian solidarity and I don't want her
Speaker 21: to support the Israeli war machine. The fact that she
Speaker 21: was going to lose that vote is irrelevant. You still
Speaker 21: vote that with your conscience. But let's suppose that she
Speaker 21: wanted to do it for some sort of strategic reason.
Speaker 21: The first thing to say is, anyone who's a hardcore
Speaker 21: supporter of Israel is never going to support Alexandria Casio Cortetes.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 21: If she was doing this to try to court, you know,
Speaker 21: Zionist voters, that's very strange because I don't think they're
Speaker 21: ever going to be in her corner anywhere. But also,
Speaker 21: if you were going to do that, if you were
Speaker 21: just going to say, you know what, I just I
Speaker 21: want to stand for defending Israel against sort of Palestinian solidarity,
Speaker 21: then you vote yes. Right, Voting present is nothing. It
Speaker 21: is literally the worst of all worlds. We're not expressing
Speaker 21: solidarity with the Palestinian people. You're also not getting whatever
Speaker 21: meat or political benefit you might have gotten up for
Speaker 21: voting in favor of Israel. It's just just sort of
Speaker 21: seems like a very aimless act. And so this is
Speaker 21: the point, sort of the broader point with this piece
Speaker 21: is that I'm not so much interested in like castigating
Speaker 21: an individual member of the sort of left Democrat caucus.
Speaker 21: I am saying, you know, look the Bernie Sanders primary campaign,
Speaker 21: which is where so much of this coalesce and we
Speaker 21: started to get this momentum. It was seven years ago.
Speaker 21: I don't have the slightest idea what left Democrats think
Speaker 21: their approach to politics is some people sort of some
Speaker 21: of the critics of the piece were like, oh, you're
Speaker 21: expecting her to be able to will legislation out of nowhere.
Speaker 7: I know she can't pass legislation on.
Speaker 21: Her own, but what I would really love to see,
Speaker 21: right is like some coherent sense of what she thinks
Speaker 21: her role as a legislator is, and you know, a
Speaker 21: sense that these people are sort of working in tandem
Speaker 21: to say, Okay, the way that we grow is this,
Speaker 21: or the way we move forward in this And all
Speaker 21: I see in so many of the things that she's
Speaker 21: done is a complete lack of sort of direction.
Speaker 1: Let me just ask you though, So, I mean, I
Speaker 1: understand why you focus on AOC, and I wrote a
Speaker 1: similar not a similar piece.
Speaker 3: Yours was much better than mine.
Speaker 1: But I also had some reflections after she endorsed byden
Speaker 1: the pod Save thing, because it's just like, ugh, really,
Speaker 1: this is how Lowe's stooped. But I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: is under the illusion now that AOC is going to
Speaker 1: lead us to the socialist promised Land. However, do you
Speaker 1: think it's better that she be there than Joe Crowley
Speaker 1: or any of the many other myriad of democrats I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of Josh Koteimer, right, Gottenheimer runs around accusing everybody
Speaker 1: who you know, says anything critical ever of Israel being
Speaker 1: an anti semit you know, pushes these resolutions, which by
Speaker 1: the way, AOC voted against. That's like, we stand with
Speaker 1: Israel always in forever, no matter what. He also pushes
Speaker 1: things that are also really odious economically, in terms of
Speaker 1: assault lifting the salt tax cap, which is basically giveaway
Speaker 1: to the wealthy. So no, they're not going to lead
Speaker 1: us to the Promised Land. But do you think it's
Speaker 1: still better to have AOC and the rest of the
Speaker 1: squad members than another set of more right wing Democrats.
Speaker 21: If I was voting for the House of Representatives tomorrow
Speaker 21: and my choices were between Alexandria Casio.
Speaker 7: Quartez or Joe Crowley, I would certainly choose AOC.
Speaker 21: But I also think it's important to say, like I mean,
Speaker 21: one of the things I've been trying to put out
Speaker 21: into the universe with people is, Okay, what fundamentally would.
Speaker 7: Have been different had Joe Crowley kept his seat? Right?
Speaker 21: I think of major moments in the recent American political history,
Speaker 21: what has sort of happened because of AOC that would
Speaker 21: not have happened with Joe Crowley or vice versa. That
Speaker 21: something that Joe Crowley would have done that AOC would
Speaker 21: not have. And I think that it's much harder to
Speaker 21: sort of come up with a version of how that
Speaker 21: hypothetical America is different than you know, if Joe Crowley
Speaker 21: just kept his seat, the machine Democrat sort of kept
Speaker 21: his seat. One thing I think people don't realize is
Speaker 21: AOC's district is notorious for bad turnout, So even though
Speaker 21: she's in the biggest city.
Speaker 7: In the country.
Speaker 21: In her first twenty eighteen primary, campaign against Joe Crowley.
Speaker 21: She won that primary with less than eighteen thousand votes,
Speaker 21: right Like, there are small towns in Connecticut where the
Speaker 21: mayor gets more than eighteen thousand votes for you know,
Speaker 21: to get that office.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 7: So, you're talking about a figure.
Speaker 21: Who's sort of been advanced into this national stage based
Speaker 21: on very little in the way of sort of public support.
Speaker 21: I would like for the sort of the vision of
Speaker 21: AOC to sort of match the reality. I mean, one
Speaker 21: of the things that I've been asking everybody to do
Speaker 21: is allow me to consider this person as a legislator
Speaker 21: like any other. I got some very sharp and interesting
Speaker 21: criticism about the piece, but the large majority of the
Speaker 21: response has been just really sort of irrational angry. How
Speaker 21: could you portray this person sort of thing? And she's
Speaker 21: in Congress, right like, she is a representative of the people,
Speaker 21: and you criticize them when they aren't doing things that
Speaker 21: are consonant with your values. If I had written that
Speaker 21: piece about some backbench Democrat who had an identical voting
Speaker 21: record to AOC, the people who got so angry at
Speaker 21: me wouldn't have bad a denying. And I think if
Speaker 21: there's anything that's going to happen if she is going
Speaker 21: to be a long term politician. I'm asking people if
Speaker 21: maybe we can dissolve the cult of AOC. Look at
Speaker 21: her as a legislator like any other, evaluate her votes,
Speaker 21: evaluate her endorsements, and make our judgments from there.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this on which dovetails with
Speaker 1: what you're saying. You close the piece saying Alexandria Cossio
Speaker 1: Court has was once a symbol of what American politics
Speaker 1: might become. Now she's a message to the rest of us.
Speaker 1: It's going to take more than symbols. Is the issue
Speaker 1: here with AOC personally? Or is it more of a
Speaker 1: structural critique, like was it always going to be impossible that,
Speaker 1: no matter her radical intention, we would end up in
Speaker 1: the same place. Or do you think a different person
Speaker 1: or a different group of people might have been able
Speaker 1: to muster more power, Because I look, for example, at
Speaker 1: the you know, some examples in the Republican Caucus, the
Speaker 1: Tea Party was able to use a minority of the
Speaker 1: caucus to great effect to get their wishes. You just
Speaker 1: had the House Freedom Caucus, which has used you know,
Speaker 1: a small group of legislators who were willing to band
Speaker 1: together and kind of be assholes and throw some sand
Speaker 1: in the gears, and they were able to also accomplish
Speaker 1: some key priorities. So is the problem with the strategy?
Speaker 1: Is the problem with individuals? And what is sort of
Speaker 1: your diagnosis of what a better direction would be.
Speaker 7: I mean it's a little bit of both.
Speaker 21: Look, I like again to respond to the most common criticism,
Speaker 21: I'm not unaware of how sort of structurally disadvantaged, you know,
Speaker 21: leftists and socialist politicians are in the United States. This
Speaker 21: is a country with I don't know, seventy years of
Speaker 21: red scare tactics when the Soviet Union exists a you know,
Speaker 21: now you know, just as long of an effort to
Speaker 21: crush labor unions, which is the heart of the left.
Speaker 21: And so I don't expect more from these people than
Speaker 21: as possible. But you mentioned the Tea Party, and it's
Speaker 21: you know, I just think that any rational evaluation of
Speaker 21: the far left and the far right in this country,
Speaker 21: you would have to acknowledge that the far right gets
Speaker 21: more of what it wants, despite the fact that in
Speaker 21: many cases they themselves don't have anything like in numerical majorities.
Speaker 21: Then the far left gets and I think that this
Speaker 21: is structural and baked into the Democrat the nature of
Speaker 21: the Democratic Party.
Speaker 7: It's simply a fact that.
Speaker 21: I mean, this was the story of Obama right, which
Speaker 21: is you had congressional Republicans during his administration who just
Speaker 21: relentlessly moved the center, and Obama constantly chased that moved
Speaker 21: center to try to be the more sort of rational person,
Speaker 21: the more sort of adult in the room person, which
Speaker 21: again with some other big part response to this piece,
Speaker 21: which is this is not how politics actually is. Grown
Speaker 21: up politics is like this. Those definitions are exactly what
Speaker 21: people on the far right have never done. So you know,
Speaker 21: I look at the end of Roe view Waid, which
Speaker 21: for me is a nightmare, But you look at the
Speaker 21: people who made that happen when Roe v. Wade, When
Speaker 21: that decision came down, even a large majority of Republicans
Speaker 21: supported a woman's right to choose.
Speaker 7: It was one of the.
Speaker 21: Things that made Roe Viewaid a landmark case was that
Speaker 21: it was public policy finally being brought into line with
Speaker 21: public opinion in terms of women's right to choose. Those
Speaker 21: people never stopped to say, those anti choice people, those
Speaker 21: anti a worship people, never said, let's get serious, let's
Speaker 21: be responsible. Well, we you know, politics is about compromise.
Speaker 21: We need to we need to moderate our opinion. If
Speaker 21: you look at the history of their movement, all they
Speaker 21: did was ruthlessly pursue that out which they got, which
Speaker 21: is the end of Roady Wade over the course of decades.
Speaker 21: And it's just a perpetual frustration of mine that you
Speaker 21: just have these examples of people on the right just
Speaker 21: sort of going to absolutely any lengths that they need
Speaker 21: to to get their agenda, while people on the left
Speaker 21: fret and worry and want to appear reasonable and need
Speaker 21: to sort of care about compromise when the other side
Speaker 21: isn't doing that and they're empowered because.
Speaker 7: They don't do it.
Speaker 1: I think that is all very well said, and you know,
Speaker 1: the piece is really really well written, and I think
Speaker 1: brings out some some key points that people who care
Speaker 1: about left progress need to pay attention to. Freddie has
Speaker 1: always great to chat with you. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for spending some time with us.
Speaker 2: Good to see you man, Thanks for having me. We'll
Speaker 2: see you guys later. Thank you so much for watching.
Speaker 2: It was a big week here. Thanks for all our
Speaker 2: premium subscribers Breakingpoints dot Com. If you can, and we'll
Speaker 2: see you next week.
Speaker 1: Again in April.
Speaker 4: S