Speaker 1: What stands out to me is just the sheer massiveness
Speaker 1: of this thing and the absolute brutality in his thing.
Speaker 1: These were real human beings who lost their lives, and
Speaker 1: it's not just what happened to them, but they were
Speaker 1: actual people. Legal fireworks are upted in court as George
Speaker 1: Wagner the Force attorneys trying to put a sudden end
Speaker 1: to his trial and the Pike County massacre we would
Speaker 1: ask for this trial basically gruesome photos that shown to three.
Speaker 1: He knows these photographs are coming, So I don't know
Speaker 1: how much of this was rooted in legal practice and
Speaker 1: how much of it is rooted in theatrics. This is
Speaker 1: the Pike to Masker Returned to Pike County Season four,
Speaker 1: Episode seven. Everybody Has a Story. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a
Speaker 1: television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: It's the middle of George Wagner the fourth trial, and
Speaker 1: it's important to note that he has pleaded not guilty
Speaker 1: and has maintained he did not kill anyone. His father,
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, whose trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not
Speaker 1: guilty to all charges. Hours of testimony from investigators and
Speaker 1: relatives has painted a very real portrait of what the
Speaker 1: crime scenes look like. But on this day of the trial,
Speaker 1: no one could have imagined the gruesomeness they would face.
Speaker 1: Listener morning. This episode covers a particularly graphic portion of
Speaker 1: the court testimony. Discretion is strongly advised you soldomnly swear
Speaker 1: or from that the testimony you were about to give
Speaker 1: Hill your truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Speaker 1: Did you show answer? Unto God? Who? Prosecutor Auntie Kinneppa
Speaker 1: and her team called doctor Karen Lumin to the stand.
Speaker 1: Lumin is a forensic pathologist who carried out autopsies on
Speaker 1: all eight of the victims. Wednesday, she talked about examining
Speaker 1: Chris senior son Frankie Rodin, and as fiance Hannah Gilly.
Speaker 1: Both were found shot to death in their bed inside
Speaker 1: a mobile home, with their infant son left alive between them.
Speaker 1: The eight deceased members of the Rodin family were discovered
Speaker 1: on a Friday. Once investigators for BCI were done processing
Speaker 1: the crime scenes, the bodies were removed and transported for autopsy,
Speaker 1: and that you did the females first. On April twenty third,
Speaker 1: that seems Saturday, Yes okay, And would you have done
Speaker 1: that first thing in the morning? Yes, okay? And what
Speaker 1: time is it? Says six o seven am. Here's James Tilcher,
Speaker 1: longtime investigative reporter in Cincinnati, now with Local twelve. She
Speaker 1: got the call firsting Saturday morning. She starts in she
Speaker 1: had to do eight autopsies in three days, but she
Speaker 1: actually did three on one day, and then another four
Speaker 1: on another day, and then another one on Monday. And
Speaker 1: these weren't just you're running the mill autopsies. I don't
Speaker 1: know what she must have gone through that weekend. And
Speaker 1: knowing they're all one family, we're all like talking amongst ourselves,
Speaker 1: how are we going to handle our own mental health
Speaker 1: through all of this? I can imagine what she's going through.
Speaker 1: Here's forensic medical examiner Joseph Scott Morgan. You're talking about
Speaker 1: multiple gunshot wounds and lots of evidence trace evidence. To
Speaker 1: recover each one of these autopsies would have taken a
Speaker 1: couple of hours because it would have been X rays,
Speaker 1: external photographs, removal of clothing, searching for trace evidence on
Speaker 1: the clothing in place, documentation of the clothing, documentation of
Speaker 1: the holes in the clothing, the defects and the clothing,
Speaker 1: the bloodstains on the clothing, all of those measurements. And
Speaker 1: we haven't even made it to the body yet. Just
Speaker 1: let that sink in. So can you imagine how exhausting
Speaker 1: this would be and how draining this is psychically? Based
Speaker 1: on a quick review of doctor Lehman's work, she does
Speaker 1: not shy away from emotionally challenging cases. She has performed
Speaker 1: autopsies and testified in many murder trials, including those of toddlers.
Speaker 1: On the stand, she appears relaxed and direct. Can you
Speaker 1: tell us what we are looking at? This is a
Speaker 1: photograph of Hannah Hazel as we open the body bag.
Speaker 1: That's a picture of Hannah's chest showing her bra and
Speaker 1: she has a maternity bra and the hooks for the
Speaker 1: front of the bar open and her breast is exposed
Speaker 1: in that photograph. And do you see libermortis in that picture?
Speaker 1: There is some livermortis in the picture. Yes, here again,
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, when you begin to think about
Speaker 1: libra mortis, it's probably one of the most solid fallback
Speaker 1: positions when it comes to judging post mortem interval. And
Speaker 1: the reason is is that it's totally gravitationally dependent. It's
Speaker 1: not impacted by temperature setting. The blood is impacted only
Speaker 1: only by gravity. So the blood will actually pool in
Speaker 1: the lowest depended area. And it's very simple to explain.
Speaker 1: Just just think for a moment. If you've got a
Speaker 1: cup of water. If you pour that cup of water
Speaker 1: out into the sink, well, what's it going to seek.
Speaker 1: It's going to see the lowest point of gravity, and
Speaker 1: in the case of the sink, it's going to be
Speaker 1: the drain. So just imagine, if you will, there's a
Speaker 1: body line flat, which we would call the sup hind
Speaker 1: position line flat on the back face upwards. Well, the
Speaker 1: blood is going to pool into those dependent regions in
Speaker 1: the back on the posterior. We can tell how long
Speaker 1: someone has been down within two to three hours essentially,
Speaker 1: when we apply all of these components, whether it's the
Speaker 1: rigidity of the body, the temperature of the body, and
Speaker 1: more specifically the postmorum molbidity, the settling of blood. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us if the liver mortist that you see
Speaker 1: in that is consistent with her laying mostly on her
Speaker 1: stomach kind of to the right side on the right, Yes,
Speaker 1: on the right side. Yes, what parts of the body
Speaker 1: did you notice injuries too? I'm miss Gilly Hannah Hazel
Speaker 1: head injuries only to her head. How many gunshot wounds
Speaker 1: did Hannah Hazel have? Five lumin examines an X ray
Speaker 1: of Hannah has Lagilli's head and explains you can see
Speaker 1: the round orbits where the eyes are. You can see
Speaker 1: where teeth are at the bottom, and then you can
Speaker 1: see four relatively larger white radio opaque things on the
Speaker 1: right side of the head. Those are bigger bullets. They
Speaker 1: are deformed, so you see their funny different shapes. They're
Speaker 1: deformed because they struck the bone. And then you see
Speaker 1: there's tiny little pieces of metal above those four pieces.
Speaker 1: And on the other side by the left eye, those
Speaker 1: are all tiny little fragments of bullet. Joseph Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1: You know they won't show certain photographs in court, or
Speaker 1: they'll because the defense will say they're prejudicial. One of
Speaker 1: the most beautiful things that you can do is show
Speaker 1: X rays. Because X rays don't have blood, they don't
Speaker 1: have gore. You don't see bodies blown apart. You might
Speaker 1: see fractured bone, but it's black and white. And then
Speaker 1: anything that is radio opaque. You see that, and suddenly
Speaker 1: the snowstorm appears before you, and they look like little
Speaker 1: white dots everywhere, and those are fragments of bullets. And
Speaker 1: that is powerful when the jury looks at that, and
Speaker 1: everybody knows their brain is in the top part of
Speaker 1: their head, inside of their skull, and you see it.
Speaker 1: You know, white bulb goes off and said, oh my god,
Speaker 1: look in the brain. You can see the little dots
Speaker 1: where all of that the bullet fragment and just ripped
Speaker 1: this body to shreds. But photographic evidence follows warning. Some
Speaker 1: of this discussion is incredibly graphic. In that photograph. I'm
Speaker 1: looking at her left eye. There's some clotted blood that
Speaker 1: you see along the margin of her eye. The blood
Speaker 1: that's in her mouth is not an injury. It's blood
Speaker 1: that's there because of the fractures to the skull. It
Speaker 1: actually fractures the sinus bones and then the sinuses bleed
Speaker 1: down the back of the throat passively. Hey, and it
Speaker 1: almost looks like her tooth is black, but that's actually
Speaker 1: blood that's clouded blood. Yes, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people that you know, want to turn a blind eye
Speaker 1: to the horror of this. You cannot escape it. There's
Speaker 1: no way to. You know, Church this up within the
Speaker 1: context of the graphic detail lost the story, and you
Speaker 1: know people as desperately as they want to turn away
Speaker 1: from it, you have to stare at it. You have
Speaker 1: to stare at it and assess it. You have to
Speaker 1: get past the horror of it. But you have to
Speaker 1: understand this. Every person that died deserves deserves to have
Speaker 1: their story told. I think that it is unmanageable for
Speaker 1: the family. Hearing this graphic testimony from the corner, and
Speaker 1: also hearing Joseph Morgan's take on it, we forget they
Speaker 1: too are human beings who are seeing carnage and blood
Speaker 1: and bodies so regularly. We assume anybody who works in
Speaker 1: this space get used to seeing in that level of gore.
Speaker 1: But that's simply not the case here Again, Special Prosecutor
Speaker 1: Angie Kneppa, do you have an opinion as to whether
Speaker 1: or not her eye would have been opened or closed
Speaker 1: at the time that she was shot her eyes because
Speaker 1: it at least got part of her eyelids. I believe
Speaker 1: her eyelids were mostly closed. The fact that it didn't
Speaker 1: get the upper eyelid, it could be. You know, some
Speaker 1: people sleep with their eyes slightly open. It could be
Speaker 1: that our eyes are slightly open. It could also be
Speaker 1: their eyes are fully open. And it only got the
Speaker 1: bottom lit so it did not go through the top eyelid.
Speaker 1: That's correct. So I can't tell technically if she was
Speaker 1: asleep or awaken. And did you ultimately or can you
Speaker 1: tell us what distance did you determine that was because
Speaker 1: we could see stipling. That's an intermediate gunshot wound. Okay?
Speaker 1: And that intermediate again, is that three inches to three yes?
Speaker 1: And do you have an opinion as to the effect
Speaker 1: that would have had on Hannah Hazel? Yes? And what
Speaker 1: is that opinion? She would have been immediately unconscious, okay?
Speaker 1: And why do you say that the bullet not only
Speaker 1: causes injury, but there's also kinetic energy that travels with
Speaker 1: the bullets. It's shaking up the brain. It takes a
Speaker 1: lot to break the bones in the skull too. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of concussion trauma. So not only is it
Speaker 1: damaging her eye, but the brain is damaged as well,
Speaker 1: and so she would become unconscious. This is only the
Speaker 1: description of the first gunshot. The bullet ended up in
Speaker 1: the frontal lobe of the brain. You can also see
Speaker 1: she's got some blood coming from her left ear. That's
Speaker 1: a sign that the bones inside the head, especially the
Speaker 1: bone where your inner ear is broken, then you bleed
Speaker 1: outside your ear. So that's what you're seeing. Kneppa and
Speaker 1: Luman go through each individual round, all five shots, and
Speaker 1: the damage each bullet did to Hannah Hazel Gilly's body.
Speaker 1: Here's legal analyst Mike Allen. What stands out to me
Speaker 1: is just the absolute brutality of this thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's stunning how brutal it is. Shot in the face.
Speaker 1: I mean, testimony about a baby nursing at his mother's
Speaker 1: breast and she's shot. I mean, you think about Hannah
Speaker 1: laying in bed with that child, and just the pravity
Speaker 1: of someone doing that. It's really hard to imagine. All
Speaker 1: in all, doctor Luman extracted four bullets from Hannah Hazel's head.
Speaker 1: The fifth grazed her skull, creating a whole and a
Speaker 1: partial bullet wound. During testimony. Reporter James Pilcher reported live
Speaker 1: from outside the courtroom. Frankie was shot three times in
Speaker 1: the head. Earlier Wednesday, Todd Fortner with the Oha Bureau
Speaker 1: of Criminal Investigation finished testifying about processing that crime scene
Speaker 1: on Union Hill Road, saying he found five spent shelf
Speaker 1: casings in the couple's bedroom. Frankie Rodin was lying in
Speaker 1: bed with Hannah Hazel Gilly a pair of blue boxer
Speaker 1: shorts the only clothing he was wearing. They were soaked
Speaker 1: with blood. Doctor Luhman holds up a paper bag with
Speaker 1: this evidence inside, but does not open it. She then
Speaker 1: picks up a box. This is our bullet box where
Speaker 1: we put all of the projectiles in. I have it
Speaker 1: labeled from the head for Frankie and those represent the
Speaker 1: projectiles that you recovered from the head of Frankie Rodin
Speaker 1: on eight sixteen. And can you tell us did you
Speaker 1: notice any differences or similarities between those projectiles and the
Speaker 1: projectiles that you recovered from Hannah Hazel Gilly. Yes, Frankie
Speaker 1: was lying face up and was shot through the cheek,
Speaker 1: left temple and ear. Hannah Hazel was at his side
Speaker 1: facing him. The shooter came into their room, facing the
Speaker 1: left side of the bed and opened fire. Despite the
Speaker 1: graphic nature of the work at hand, there were only
Speaker 1: positive reviews of Lumen's testimony. Here again, James Pulcher. I
Speaker 1: can tell you, at least from the feedback I've gotten
Speaker 1: from watching her, that she has really a lot of
Speaker 1: respect in the community for the respect she's treated the
Speaker 1: victims and their bodies and the autopsy and everything else.
Speaker 1: But the next morning, it's not Lumen's testimony that is
Speaker 1: making news. Legal fireworks are uped in court as George
Speaker 1: Wagner the Force attorneys trying to put a sudden end
Speaker 1: to his trial and the Pike County massacre. We would
Speaker 1: ask for a mistrial based on gruesome photos that have
Speaker 1: been shown to the jury. Photos are only missile irrelevant disputation.
Speaker 1: George Wagner's defense attorney, John Parker claims continuing to show
Speaker 1: the jury gruesome photos of the crime scenes and autopsies
Speaker 1: is inflammatory, specifically since the actual facts of how the
Speaker 1: victims died are not in question. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a break. We'll be back in a moment. Here's Jeff
Speaker 1: speaking with James Pilcher. The defense is asking for a Mistriald,
Speaker 1: What do you make of that? Is that it's something
Speaker 1: that's valid? Could they possibly get one? They are pulling
Speaker 1: every trick in the book that they can't to try
Speaker 1: to get this to start over, to delay it, to
Speaker 1: get the juryman to do whatever the latest thing. They
Speaker 1: don't want the prosecution to be able to show the
Speaker 1: pictures up on the screen. Here again, Joseph Morgan, What
Speaker 1: is kind of out out of left field is the
Speaker 1: idea that the defense attorney would ask for a mistrial
Speaker 1: based on the nature of the photographs. Most of the
Speaker 1: time that that kind of stuff is handled in pre
Speaker 1: trial motion. You come to an agreement as to what
Speaker 1: photography is going to be used, and in the free
Speaker 1: trial motions there'll be a hearing. And they knew this
Speaker 1: was coming. This is not it's not like they just
Speaker 1: fell from the heavens and they're unaware. They know that
Speaker 1: these photographs are coming. So I don't know how much
Speaker 1: of this was rooted in legal practice and how much
Speaker 1: of it is rooted in the address. It appears that
Speaker 1: Judge Deering agrees with the request for a mistriald denied.
Speaker 1: The prosecution moves on to crime Scene three, the home
Speaker 1: where Dana Roden, Hannah May Roden, and Chris Roden Junior
Speaker 1: were killed. The prosecution recalled BCI special agent Todd Fortner
Speaker 1: to the stand. Fortner had already testified earlier in the
Speaker 1: trial about evidence at Chris Senior and Gary's trailer. He
Speaker 1: took many of the photographs at Frankie Roden's house as well.
Speaker 1: One n caught the eye of both the prosecution and
Speaker 1: defense was an open window on the backside of the home.
Speaker 1: As you look at State and did at B one
Speaker 1: thirty five, you testified about that air conditioner that appeared
Speaker 1: to have some grass on it out back. Can you
Speaker 1: see that air conditioner in that picture? Yes, just outside
Speaker 1: the window. The back of Frankie Roden's home has two windows.
Speaker 1: The open window in questions, it's about five to six
Speaker 1: feet up from the ground with two HVAC units blow in.
Speaker 1: Interior photos are so next show the jury where that
Speaker 1: pictures taken from the what you're to packing in that picture.
Speaker 1: This again from the doorway here looking into the bedroom.
Speaker 1: You can see the clutter and the open window. Here
Speaker 1: Stephanie looking at these photographs and picturing this room and
Speaker 1: where these windows are. An interesting detail too, I thought
Speaker 1: was that there was a bathtub and they must have
Speaker 1: been raising baby chicks because to keep them warm, there
Speaker 1: were little wood chips in the bathtub where the chicks
Speaker 1: were growing. And right beside that there was a toddler's
Speaker 1: pack and play, which we've all seen before, just kind
Speaker 1: of a haunting image against the grizzliness that took place
Speaker 1: soon after. Also, you know, it raises the question there
Speaker 1: were so much stuff in and around where the windows are,
Speaker 1: it seems like it would have been very clumsy to
Speaker 1: get through that window. Special Agent Todd Fortner. And when
Speaker 1: you initially viewed that picture, did you think it was
Speaker 1: unlikely that anybody had to come from that window? Yes,
Speaker 1: so I felt it was less likely that someone came
Speaker 1: in without disturbing some of these items. However, it was
Speaker 1: not impossible. Okay, So clearly somebody could have come through
Speaker 1: that window, but based on the way that those items appeared,
Speaker 1: nothing was knock over or disturbed or upside down. That correct. Correct.
Speaker 1: He gave it some thought and listened very carefully, and
Speaker 1: he opined that he didn't believe that that was case.
Speaker 1: He said, it's not off the table, but you know,
Speaker 1: the space is so tight this window, you know that
Speaker 1: you would gain access to and there is no underlying
Speaker 1: area to kind of leverage yourself up onto the window seal.
Speaker 1: The defense tries to drive a wedge between the certainty
Speaker 1: of the prosecution and Fortner alluding to one Wagner who
Speaker 1: could have fit through that window, admitted murderer, Jake Wagner.
Speaker 1: You prepare to report in this case, right, Yes? And
Speaker 1: in your report you discussed looking for points of entry.
Speaker 1: Do you recall that I do? And what is it
Speaker 1: you said about that as a potential point of interest.
Speaker 1: As I've already testified, I said, with the items there
Speaker 1: inside the window, I felt it was less likely to
Speaker 1: be a point of entry because it's such a tight
Speaker 1: squeeze to get through there and not disrupt those items.
Speaker 1: Even though you said it was unlikely based on your observations,
Speaker 1: was it impossible, No, it was possible. Like I said,
Speaker 1: it would take somebody smaller and more agile, but not impossible.
Speaker 1: When he said that, I went back and kind of
Speaker 1: reflectively looked at the images of Jake, you know, back
Speaker 1: during that period of time. On some level, he's bulk
Speaker 1: here now, but back in sixteen he was a smaller person.
Speaker 1: Jay pit have made through it back then, but I
Speaker 1: think it's highly unlikely. There's another point that we have
Speaker 1: to consider here. If you go through a window, particularly one,
Speaker 1: you have to leap up to and kind of pull
Speaker 1: yourself through there, there would be some remnant of you.
Speaker 1: Potentially a much higher probability is some remnant of you
Speaker 1: left behind in that small space you're trying to wiggle through.
Speaker 1: You testified that you didn't do any swabbing or DNA
Speaker 1: of that open window area as part of your work
Speaker 1: out there on that day. Is that correct? Correct? But
Speaker 1: did you find out or do you know that later
Speaker 1: as part of the investigation eventually that area was swabbed
Speaker 1: for DNA, Yes, it was. There was no DNA and
Speaker 1: no fingerprints were covered in or around the window. Every
Speaker 1: contact leaves a trace, So everything that we do physically
Speaker 1: within the construct of a crime scene, if we touch surface,
Speaker 1: we're gonna leave some element of ourselves behind, whether it's
Speaker 1: an early fingerprint, whether it's a bit of fiber, whether
Speaker 1: it's a bit of touch DNA which is shedding skin.
Speaker 1: And to my way of understand, they didn't find any
Speaker 1: of that. The next morning, another attempt by the defense
Speaker 1: to shut down the trial. Here's Judge Deering. A motion
Speaker 1: was filed earlier this morning, motion number one eleven, entitled
Speaker 1: motion for a mistrial. Thursday began with another attempt by
Speaker 1: Wagner's defense team to get a mistrial in the case.
Speaker 1: But as you did wednesday, Judge Randy Deering overruled that motion.
Speaker 1: Here again, Mike Allen on why the defense would file
Speaker 1: motions on back to back days. They're making a record.
Speaker 1: From what I understand, it was an oral motion the
Speaker 1: day before yesterday. It was put in writing yesterday and
Speaker 1: filed and the judge heard the one that is in
Speaker 1: writing today. It's all about making a record in case
Speaker 1: there's an appeal again, Joseph Scott Morgan. If George's fauld,
Speaker 1: it's immediately going to go up on appeal. And I
Speaker 1: can promise you this is going to be a point
Speaker 1: which they're going to argue on appeal. They're going to
Speaker 1: say these photographs were so prejudicial, so over the top,
Speaker 1: that it's swayed in an inappropriate manner. A pain in
Speaker 1: my client is some kind of monster. Soon after the exchange,
Speaker 1: Hamilton County Chief Deputy Corner Doctor Karen Lohman returned to
Speaker 1: the stand. Doctor Lohman, can you tell us what we
Speaker 1: are looking at there? So this is a side X
Speaker 1: ray of Dana's head. You can see she has some
Speaker 1: fillings in her teeth and she has one, two, three, four,
Speaker 1: about six large pieces of bullet and blood fragments in
Speaker 1: her head. Kneppa, seeing the graphic nature of the photo,
Speaker 1: pauses for many awkward seconds. Luman grimaces and looks down
Speaker 1: while Kneppa decides what to do. She asked the judge
Speaker 1: to remove the photo from the in room screen. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna can you minimize seconds. I'm going to approach the
Speaker 1: exhibit with this next photo. If that's okay with Cord,
Speaker 1: I'm going to approach the victim with this next From
Speaker 1: here on in, she only shows doctor Lumen and the
Speaker 1: jury printed photos of the autopsies. Doctor, can you tell
Speaker 1: us when you did your examination of Dana Roden how
Speaker 1: many gunshot wounds had she received? Five? Matriarch Dana Rodin
Speaker 1: was in a nightgown in bed when she was shot,
Speaker 1: and can you tell us we are was gunshot wound
Speaker 1: number one located on the diagram. Number one is on
Speaker 1: the far left. It looks like it's on the right forehead.
Speaker 1: It's a little more on the side of the forehead.
Speaker 1: It traveled across, following a relatively straight path to the
Speaker 1: left side of her head, struck the bone on the
Speaker 1: left side of her head, but did not exit and
Speaker 1: then fell inside her skull to underneath her brain. And
Speaker 1: gunshot wound number two were that located, that is, closer
Speaker 1: to the center of the right forehead. Shot three was similar.
Speaker 1: The other two grazed her skull and shattered her jaw.
Speaker 1: And can you tell us do you have an opinion?
Speaker 1: Were the bullets in projectile that you recovered from Dana Rodin?
Speaker 1: Was that consistent with the bullets and projectiles that you
Speaker 1: removed from Frankie Rodin and Hannah Hazel Kelly, Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: and inconsistent with the bullets and projectiles that you recovered
Speaker 1: from Chris Senior and Gary Rodin. Yes, that's correct. When
Speaker 1: initial photos of Hannahme Rodin in a body bag are
Speaker 1: presented to doctor Luhman, Angie Kaneppa immediately draws attention to
Speaker 1: a tattoo. There is what appears to be a tattoo
Speaker 1: close to the underwear line or the bikini line. And
Speaker 1: can you tell us what those initials are? The initials
Speaker 1: are EJW. Kire Stephanie Hannah May Rodin on her body.
Speaker 1: She has a little tattoo with the initials E J W.
Speaker 1: On her hip. Those initials of course afore Edward Jake Wagner.
Speaker 1: That's Jake Wagner's legal name, and it just paints a picture.
Speaker 1: At one point she was deeply, deeply in love with him.
Speaker 1: This is a side view of Hannah's head. You can
Speaker 1: see that this long believe gated piece of metal and
Speaker 1: a shorter one there. Those are the earrings that we
Speaker 1: saw previously in the previous picture, and then you can
Speaker 1: see some small radiopaque white pieces of bullet in her head.
Speaker 1: And when you conducted your examination of Hannah rode In,
Speaker 1: how many gunshot wounds did you observe her to have? Here? Again,
Speaker 1: Reporter James Pilcher, Hannah was the main target because she
Speaker 1: was the one holding up the issues with the custody.
Speaker 1: And yet she only got shot twice and the rest
Speaker 1: were you know, Dana got shot five times. It makes
Speaker 1: no sense. Hannime Rodin was shot in the upper left
Speaker 1: back of her head and behind her left ear. She
Speaker 1: was found resting facing away from the door to her bedroom. So,
Speaker 1: if for instance, somebody comes in through here, this individual
Speaker 1: sees that person and then turns away either instinctively to
Speaker 1: because they see a gun and order to protect the
Speaker 1: child that's laying in better with them. Are the injuries
Speaker 1: and the pathways that you saw to her head consistent
Speaker 1: with that? Yes? Did you observe the shirt to be
Speaker 1: any certain position? Yes? And what was that position? The
Speaker 1: shirt was pulled up over the right breast. And did
Speaker 1: you actually have some other abnormal finding when you did
Speaker 1: the internal examination of Hannah Rodin or an additional finding? Yeah,
Speaker 1: not necessarily abnormal, but yes, additional findings. And what was that?
Speaker 1: One of them was that she was lactating and the
Speaker 1: other was that her uterus was enlarged because she'd just
Speaker 1: given birth several days before, so it takes a while
Speaker 1: for your uterus to shrink back down. So I could
Speaker 1: tell that she had recently given birth. Back in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: the weekend after the murders, Karen Lehman returned to the
Speaker 1: mark on Sunday after spending an entire Saturday with the
Speaker 1: bodies of Dana, Hannah Hazel and Anime. Chris Junior was
Speaker 1: the first body she examined that day. The fifteen year
Speaker 1: old was found lying on his stomach covered by a comfiter.
Speaker 1: There were four shots to the right side of his
Speaker 1: head and face. And is that consistent with the body
Speaker 1: being positioned this way and somebody coming up and shooting
Speaker 1: him from this side? Yes? Yes, Did you observe any
Speaker 1: exit wounds to Christopher Jr? No? Did you collect the
Speaker 1: projectile that you recovered from within his head? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 1: showing you what it's been Marcus dates exhibit K ninety
Speaker 1: three if you can tell you about this. This is
Speaker 1: a bullet box labeled from the head and it's holding
Speaker 1: all of the bullets in one box that we collected
Speaker 1: at all topsy here again, James Pilcher seeing the crime
Speaker 1: scene photos of Chris Junior about mam me cry. I'm
Speaker 1: a parent of a fifteen, sixteen year old and to
Speaker 1: see him just lying dead in bed with a boothole
Speaker 1: on his forehead and purple was just not something I'd
Speaker 1: ever want to see again. That afternoon, court adjourns for
Speaker 1: the week after hours of grilling testimony about crime scene.
Speaker 1: Three jurors who will decide George Wagner's Gilbert innocence have
Speaker 1: a lot to think about this weekend. Let's stop here
Speaker 1: for another break. Monday morning comes quickly for a tired
Speaker 1: panel of jurors. Doctor Lumin arrives for her final day
Speaker 1: of testimony. It's the final day bearing witness to the
Speaker 1: most grizzly details of how an entire branch of the
Speaker 1: family tree was chopped off in one night. In a
Speaker 1: previous episode, we analyzed Kenneth Roden's crime scene, known as
Speaker 1: crime Scene four, in depth, but Karen Lumin adds additional detail.
Speaker 1: We had not heard about Kenny Roden's murder. Do you
Speaker 1: have it a painting within a reasonable degree medical certainty
Speaker 1: as to the cause of death of Kenneth? Yes? Hey,
Speaker 1: what would that be? Doctor? There was a single gunshot
Speaker 1: wing to the head. His eyes were closed because the
Speaker 1: bullet went through his eyelids. This is where we found
Speaker 1: the bullet. It is a refrain she touched upon across
Speaker 1: her testimony. James Pilcher the moment said she could tell
Speaker 1: many of the victims died in their sleep. It became
Speaker 1: apparent looking at where the wounds were that it seemed
Speaker 1: that many of them were shot multiple times and never moved,
Speaker 1: never appeared to have reacted to other people in the
Speaker 1: house being shot as well. Here's Jeff speaking with Mike Allen.
Speaker 1: It's more detail than we've ever gotten about the brutality
Speaker 1: of what happened to the Rodan family, and you know,
Speaker 1: there didn't appear to be much of a struggle, and
Speaker 1: she said, that's not normally the case. My guess is
Speaker 1: that there they probably were asleep, because I mean, if
Speaker 1: you hear a gunshot, or if you see somebody coming
Speaker 1: at you holding the gun or anything at that time
Speaker 1: of night, I think your suspicions would be raised if
Speaker 1: you didn't have any defensive wounds and nobody really resisted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's hard to like picture it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I for sure it's many points too that that Jake
Speaker 1: was not alone in shooting them, Like there had to
Speaker 1: have been more than one shooter. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: think about if everyone was in bed, if you go
Speaker 1: to Dana's house, it's Dana, Hannah, and little Chris. So
Speaker 1: were there three shooters at the same time, you know,
Speaker 1: all counting down or could there be another reason no
Speaker 1: one woke up. They're getting further and further away from
Speaker 1: tying it to the actual defendant. Here, we really got
Speaker 1: to get to the beginning when the plotting and planning
Speaker 1: in real conspiracy took place. And this is a fired bullet,
Speaker 1: A forty caliber. So the focus of testimony now is ballistics,
Speaker 1: the bullets that were found at each of those four
Speaker 1: crime scenes. It's part of a number of experts the
Speaker 1: state will be calling to show the jury the evidence
Speaker 1: to tie it to the Wagner family. They have to
Speaker 1: show this because we learned today there was no Wagner
Speaker 1: family members DNA at any of those four crime scenes.
Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the
Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie
Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker,
Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Scott de Graw, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and
Speaker 1: me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta
Speaker 1: Music by Jared Aston. The Piked and Maskers a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.