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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Lefts Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is record producer Tom Mormon. Know him from

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Speaker 1: his work with Cheap Trick, Ted Nugent, Twisted Sister Motley Crue.

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Speaker 1: Tom Good to have you, good to be here, wonderful,

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Speaker 1: real honor. So what was the first record you ever produced? Well?

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Speaker 1: I kind of co produced Ted Nugent, the Ted Nugent

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Speaker 1: Ted Nugent Record with Stranglehold on it Um. I signed

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Speaker 1: Ted and his manager actually owned his production contract, which

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Speaker 1: gave him the right to produce him. I wanted Pete

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Speaker 1: Townsend to produce him and piece. Pete's attorney had a

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Speaker 1: good laugh over that one. But anyway, I was forced

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Speaker 1: we Epic was forced to acce up this guy's role

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Speaker 1: as producer and I went into the studio to protect

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Speaker 1: my investment because it took me a long time and

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Speaker 1: a lot of tries to sign Ted Um. I had

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Speaker 1: offered three bands to Epic before that turned out to

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Speaker 1: be huge, but they passed UM. So so I went

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Speaker 1: into the studio and I started making a lot of suggestions, wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: let's slow down a little bit. What those of us

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Speaker 1: before he came back on epic. We just know him

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Speaker 1: from Journey to the Center of the Mind. What was

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Speaker 1: Ted doing at the time, and why was he so

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Speaker 1: hard to sign? He wasn't hard to sign for me,

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Speaker 1: but it was hard for me to get the company

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Speaker 1: to accept the signings that I brought them. Um. I

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Speaker 1: had a boss who was really bright and really nice,

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Speaker 1: but knew very little about rock and roll. So um,

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Speaker 1: he passed on Kiss, Leonard, Skinners, and Rush, which I

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Speaker 1: had brought to the label free and clear, and um,

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Speaker 1: you know. The only other band I had signed in

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Speaker 1: the first six years at the label was Ario Speedwagon

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Speaker 1: and that was the first band I signed. Um. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: so I finally got an opportunity to sign Ted. And

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Speaker 1: at this point I really needed a hit because I've

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Speaker 1: been at the label for six years and only signed

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Speaker 1: one band and one successful band, and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and our guys generally need to bat at least two

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Speaker 1: in order to keep their jobs. So I really wanted

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Speaker 1: to protect this investment. And I went into the studio

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Speaker 1: and I kind of horned in and just just one

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Speaker 1: question before of course, during most of the heyday, David

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Speaker 1: Krebs Liber Crebs were the managers? Were they the ones

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Speaker 1: who had the production deal? Was this someone for them? Now?

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Speaker 1: They were just the managers? Um? Yeah, lou Futterman had

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Speaker 1: the production deal. He owned Ted and he managed him.

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Speaker 1: He uh, I guess sold man the management to to David. Um.

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Speaker 1: David came out to Lansing, Michigan because Ted was opening

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Speaker 1: for Aerosmith. So so David came out to Arrows. David

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Speaker 1: was managing Aerosmith, and he came out and watched Ted

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Speaker 1: while I and my boss watched Ted because I invited

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Speaker 1: my boss to come out and see Ted because I'm okay,

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Speaker 1: it makes a question. Who is your boss? Uh? Steve

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Speaker 1: Popovitch at that time. Um, the former boss was Don Ellis,

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Speaker 1: who had gone over to our c A and Steve

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Speaker 1: Popovitch came up and he said, Worman, what what have

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Speaker 1: you been doing here for six years? And I said, well,

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Speaker 1: I tried to sign blah blah blah. And he said,

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Speaker 1: is there any when you were interested in? Now? I said, well,

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Speaker 1: actually Ted nugent Um. I didn't know much about Ted

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Speaker 1: at all, but um, you know his manager. Uh, this

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Speaker 1: this guy, Louke Fundaman nice man came in and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: Ted new did it is available? He played me a

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Speaker 1: little something, and I thought this was pretty good. So

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Speaker 1: I went to Chicago to see Ted play in a

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Speaker 1: very half empty auditorium at Illinois Institute of Technology, and

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Speaker 1: he was superb. Now we didn't talk politics. I want

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Speaker 1: to make that very clear, very clear. The whole time

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Speaker 1: I knew Ted, you know that we worked together, which

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Speaker 1: was five years. Um, we got along famously and the

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Speaker 1: subject of politics actually never came up because there was

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Speaker 1: nothing controversial back then. Um. So I enjoyed Ted. He

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Speaker 1: was appreciative. We worked very well together. A little bit slow. Okay,

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Speaker 1: go back to the story. So you went in as

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Speaker 1: co producer and you were making suggestions continue from there. Well, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I actually didn't go in as co producer.

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Speaker 1: I went in as the label guy, you know, the

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Speaker 1: guy from the label D A and R Man who

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Speaker 1: was overseeing the project. And um, by the end, lou

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Speaker 1: Futterman mixed the record. I wasn't for some reason, I

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Speaker 1: wasn't around for the home mix. I didn't like it.

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Speaker 1: So I asked my boss could I have another five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars to remix this record? And he agreed. I

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Speaker 1: went down to Atlanta to where we made the record,

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Speaker 1: and I remixed the record with the engineer and it

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Speaker 1: went platinum, and not necessarily because of my mix, but

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Speaker 1: it went nevertheless. And you know that means in the

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Speaker 1: record industry, Bang, you're a producer. You're beautiful, babe. So uh,

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Speaker 1: you know that. I continued in the office for a

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Speaker 1: few months, and then the Cheap trick of Project came up,

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Speaker 1: and and that was in color a little bit slower certainly. Uh,

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Speaker 1: if you were an in house guy, which you were,

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Speaker 1: did you get royalties on the records? Good question. We

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Speaker 1: didn't get a piece back then because it was our

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Speaker 1: job description. You know, you go out and you find

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Speaker 1: us acts. I did get um a nickel for for

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Speaker 1: every ten Newgent record we sold, and then I think

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Speaker 1: they've moved me up to twelve cents on um Cheap

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Speaker 1: trick Um. But this was a gift. There was no contract.

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Speaker 1: There was no agreement between me and the label for

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Speaker 1: me to get a royalty. Somewhere in the mid nineties.

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Speaker 1: It was a very big success right off the bad,

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Speaker 1: huge debut album, and it made the A and R guy,

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Speaker 1: you know, a millionaire instantly because they had instituted the

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Speaker 1: practice of cutting us in giving us a piece. Okay, Uh,

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Speaker 1: so let's go to a cheap trick. So you who

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Speaker 1: did sign cheap trick? I did. But Jack Douglas called

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Speaker 1: me two recommend to request that I go see them,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I love Jack Douglas. He had made Rocks,

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Speaker 1: the Aerosmith album, which I thought was among the best ever,

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Speaker 1: uh in terms of American rock and roll. So um,

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Speaker 1: I hopped on a plane, went right out to see

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Speaker 1: them in this little town in Illinois and we're from Rockford.

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Speaker 1: They were from Rackford, and they were playing in a

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Speaker 1: strip mall in a club packed, and um, you know

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Speaker 1: they were they were amazing. They were really really amazing.

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Speaker 1: So again I brought out my boss and we signed them,

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Speaker 1: and Jack made their first record, which was really a

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Speaker 1: great record, but not terribly commercial. Um, and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I did the second record because Jack was busy with Aerosmith,

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Speaker 1: and I, you know, I as as a staff producer

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Speaker 1: in the day of FM and a M. I felt

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Speaker 1: that it was my assignment to get bands on AM

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Speaker 1: radio and get them hit singles because you know, it's

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Speaker 1: sold a ton of albums. So um, I made a

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Speaker 1: more commercial record, which was in color, and and then

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Speaker 1: I was I was irreversibly a producer because they Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's let's stop with in Color. I believe in Color

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Speaker 1: is the best cheap trick record. The one that Jack

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Speaker 1: Douglas made to start was darker. It had Mandicello, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: You made in Color. You certainly made Heaven Tonight, which

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Speaker 1: no one ever talks about taking me back, which I love.

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Speaker 1: But after that the band became heavier and from scuttle.

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Speaker 1: But they may have not have been happy with your

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Speaker 1: let's just call it more commercial sound, but that was

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Speaker 1: their definitive statement. That's right. Well, look, you know several

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Speaker 1: bands have well they slap you on the back in

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Speaker 1: high five you when they're selling gazillions of records, and

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Speaker 1: twenty years later you sucked. Um. You didn't capture their sound.

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Speaker 1: You were too lightweight. Again, I'm a pop guy. I

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Speaker 1: did not ask to be pigeonholed in metal or hard rock.

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Speaker 1: I enjoy it. I enjoy a lot of it. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I've had some disagreements in the press with

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Speaker 1: with Rick who said, you know why, he didn't know

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Speaker 1: anything about the piano on I want you to want me.

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Speaker 1: That's that's just not true. I'm not going to get

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Speaker 1: into that. I shouldn't get into that now. But UM,

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Speaker 1: I made hit singles. I tried to make hit singles.

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Speaker 1: UM the bands. I I felt that if I got

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Speaker 1: them on the radio, UM, and then they would get

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Speaker 1: the attention of a large audience and then they could

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Speaker 1: do what they wanted. UM. So that's what it did. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's start with the in color. Let's go in depth.

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Speaker 1: So what is the process. They've made their first record,

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Speaker 1: they've gotten some notice, not commercially successful. How do you

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Speaker 1: so Jack is doing it? You tell the band you

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Speaker 1: want to produce it or how does it end up happening?

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Speaker 1: And do they immediately agree? Well, they asked me actually

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Speaker 1: to to to produce it. With the blessing of H.

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Speaker 1: Bruce Lundball, who was then the president of CBS Records. UM.

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Speaker 1: I was actually in the process of preparing to produce

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Speaker 1: Eddie Money's first album, UM and I had met with

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Speaker 1: Eddie and San Francisco and we were getting ready to

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Speaker 1: go when this whole cheap Trick needs a producer situation

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Speaker 1: came up and I met with Bruce and I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, quite frankly, I would I would rather do

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Speaker 1: cheap Trick and he said, okay, I can fix it,

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Speaker 1: and he ran interference for me with Bill Graham because

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Speaker 1: Bill Graham wasn't happy about this. The producer switch. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and that was it. We agreed they wanted to record

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Speaker 1: in l A. I had never been, but I was game,

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Speaker 1: and uh. We went out to to to the record

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Speaker 1: plan in l A and and Sound City and we

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Speaker 1: made in color. I went out there and I interviewed

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Speaker 1: an engineer over the phone. I didn't really know anything

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Speaker 1: about recording in l A. Remind me who that engineer was,

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Speaker 1: Gary Litdinski. We made sixteen records together. And you met

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Speaker 1: him over the phone. Yeah, I met him over the phone.

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Speaker 1: I interviewed a few guys over the phone, and he

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Speaker 1: was He was definitely the most modest, the most the funniest. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: He was a house engineer at the record plant, the

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Speaker 1: third Sweet Record Plant in l A, the Fable Record Plant,

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Speaker 1: my home away from home, and it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: we just had had a wonderful time and continued making

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Speaker 1: records for about five or six years. Okay, so let's

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Speaker 1: go back. Traditionally, the producer creates the budget. Need let's

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Speaker 1: just say if the beans from Illinois and you're living

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Speaker 1: in New York. Yeah, there's issues of hotel transportation, studio time.

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Speaker 1: At your level of inexperience, how did you come up

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Speaker 1: with a budget? You know, I actually don't remember how

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Speaker 1: we arrived at a budget. Um, but you know we

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Speaker 1: were We all went to l A together. We stayed

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Speaker 1: at the Sunset Marquee, which was cheap at the time.

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Speaker 1: Amazing and um, you know we made a deal. Uh,

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Speaker 1: Gary booked the studios because I just you know, deferred

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Speaker 1: to him about that. You know, there are studios he wanted.

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Speaker 1: There was a studio he wanted to track in, which

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Speaker 1: was Sound City, and then we went back to the

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Speaker 1: record plant, which he knew intimately two over dubbed and mix. Um,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't it. You know, the budgets weren't really a

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Speaker 1: big problem then they weren't that big. Well, the question

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Speaker 1: would be if you wanted more money or spend more money,

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Speaker 1: did the label push back? Well, it depended on what

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Speaker 1: they heard, you know, if it was developing into something

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Speaker 1: really good and you needed you needed to go over

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Speaker 1: budget like they do in films. Um, usually it was okay,

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Speaker 1: it was your asked on the line. You know, so

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Speaker 1: you're in l A. They show up, what state there was?

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Speaker 1: Stay within color? What was the state of the material? Well,

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Speaker 1: it was very It was pretty complete, and we had

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Speaker 1: a lot of songs to choose from, which is typical

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Speaker 1: for an album early in the band's career because they

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Speaker 1: spent ten years writing songs and then, you know, then

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Speaker 1: they have a hit record and they have to come

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Speaker 1: up with twelve more really good songs in three months.

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Speaker 1: So there was plenty of There was plenty of of

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Speaker 1: of material to choose from. And so did you rehearse her?

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Speaker 1: You just went reading the right in the studio? Well,

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Speaker 1: I I always um. I listened to their demos, and

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Speaker 1: I made notes and rearranged some things. It's you know,

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Speaker 1: and and we we went into a rehearsal studio. Wait wait,

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Speaker 1: wait what might you rear? What did you rearrange? What

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Speaker 1: level of rearrangement are we talking about? Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: some typical would be let's um, let's cut the intro

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Speaker 1: and half um change this UM, go to the ride

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Speaker 1: symbol instead of the high hat in the first verse.

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Speaker 1: We'll add a B three oregon in in the chorus.

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Speaker 1: Let's do this harmony? You you arranged and and maybe

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Speaker 1: you double the length of the guitar solo and you

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Speaker 1: fade instead of having a cold ending anything that occurs

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Speaker 1: to you, you know, if you're a good producer. I

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Speaker 1: think arranging is the is the main part of the gig. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I would make extensive notes and then we'd go

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Speaker 1: into a rehearsal studio with a boom box and we

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Speaker 1: would make a rough, um, you know, recordings in the

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Speaker 1: boom box of the changes we had made the new

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Speaker 1: version of the song. And uh we would then take

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Speaker 1: this little boom box cassette into the studio with us

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Speaker 1: so we could refer to it because it was a

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Speaker 1: new arrangement and maybe the band had been playing the

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Speaker 1: old arrangement for five years, day in and day out.

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Speaker 1: So so we would use it as a model to

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Speaker 1: what to what degree were the bands are open? Yeah? Well, um,

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Speaker 1: quite a They were quite agreeable, most of them, some

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Speaker 1: cheap cheap trick had a lot of As you make

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Speaker 1: more and more albums, if you make a second album

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Speaker 1: or a third album with the band, they almost always

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Speaker 1: became more involved in you know, in in creative input. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some bands that I worked with really use the studio

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Speaker 1: as a as a party room and uh, recorded on

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Speaker 1: the side instead of instead of going to record to

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Speaker 1: make a record and partying on the side. But those

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Speaker 1: bands were distracted more and left much more up to me. Um,

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Speaker 1: the bands were usually what we would do. What I

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Speaker 1: would do is say, listen, I think we should do this,

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Speaker 1: let's try it. We try it it. Usually if it

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Speaker 1: didn't work, we didn't do it. Um. Regardless of what

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Speaker 1: bands say, the producer is hired by the band. He

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Speaker 1: can be fired, he can be changed. Um, they don't

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Speaker 1: have to use him for the follow up record. Um. Hm.

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Speaker 1: The job of the producer is to help the band

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Speaker 1: realize its musical vision. And uh. He does not have

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Speaker 1: the power to say we're not going to do that

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Speaker 1: song or you have to do it this way unless

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Speaker 1: he's you know, a very very heavy producer, and and

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Speaker 1: you don't you know, the band doesn't want to alienate

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Speaker 1: him minutes their first record something like that. So Okay,

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Speaker 1: where did you get the confidence to make these changes

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Speaker 1: since you were newbie? Well I didn't. It didn't get

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Speaker 1: the confidence. But but I think that my ideas were

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Speaker 1: good enough that the band you know, considered them ricks

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Speaker 1: very smart. This was cheap picks a bunch of smart guys,

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Speaker 1: very talented, extremely good on on their instruments, and you

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Speaker 1: know that I think I think we had a mutual respect.

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Speaker 1: So every hit you make gives you a little more confidence.

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Speaker 1: It also it also makes you a little more afraid

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Speaker 1: of making a stiff the next time and being discovered

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Speaker 1: as a complete impostor. Okay, so an album like a

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Speaker 1: cheap trick in color. How much rehearsal did you do?

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Speaker 1: We probably did h four or five days. Okay, then

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Speaker 1: you go in the studio. When you go in the studio,

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Speaker 1: at that point, I believe there are twelve tracks on

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Speaker 1: that record. Have you already whittled it down to twelve

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Speaker 1: or you cut more than that? You cut more than that,

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Speaker 1: probably about fifteen or sixteen, and you know pretty quickly

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Speaker 1: which ones have potential um. In some cases you know

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Speaker 1: before you get into the studio which one is the

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Speaker 1: hit um or the most probable hit UM. So then

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Speaker 1: then you cut them down, uh to ten or twelve

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Speaker 1: you know, depending on how many you feel you should

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Speaker 1: have on the album and what the what the total

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Speaker 1: time is on both sides. Because that when you made

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Speaker 1: records that actually affected the level of the record if

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Speaker 1: you had a twelve you know, a very very long

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Speaker 1: uh side, then you just couldn't make it as loud. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that was that was a consideration. But after you

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Speaker 1: got down to your ten or twelve songs, um, again,

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Speaker 1: you would make a judgment usually and say, okay, these

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Speaker 1: are the good ones, let's spend most of our time

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Speaker 1: on them. And there there would be one or two turkeys,

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Speaker 1: and you would not spend very much time on those. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what is I say? Would you literally cut as I say?

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Speaker 1: There are ten tracks? And in color? Would you actually

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Speaker 1: cut fifteen? Yes? Okay, and then you would uh, you know, concentrate. Okay.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of really big songs in retrospect

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Speaker 1: on in color? Did you know that I Want You

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Speaker 1: to Want Me? Was the single? Or Clock Strikes ten?

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Speaker 1: Or Southern Girls? You know, I I knew I want

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Speaker 1: You to Want Me was was very catchy. But but

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Speaker 1: again I treated it as a dance hall tune, like

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Speaker 1: a thirties song with attack piano and finger snaps. Um.

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Speaker 1: They changed it drastically, you know, for Buddhican or when

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Speaker 1: when they when they left the studio. Um. So I

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Speaker 1: didn't think that that was I can't remember the all

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Speaker 1: all the songs on the album uh right now, but

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Speaker 1: I don't think I thought that was the single. Well,

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Speaker 1: needless to say, the album comes out, gets a lot

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Speaker 1: of presses, love, but there is no hit single. So

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Speaker 1: then how do you end up then moving on to

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Speaker 1: Heaven Tonight. Well, they liked the record and Rolling Stone

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Speaker 1: named an album of the year, so you know it

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Speaker 1: was um it had credibility and the manager uh urged

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Speaker 1: them to uh to stay with me and and that's

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Speaker 1: what they did, I and and and Heaven Tonight. I

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Speaker 1: think that's one of the best records I ever produced. Um,

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Speaker 1: we just got along. We did well, and we thought

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Speaker 1: that the day would come if we kept at it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that album comes out and tell us the story of

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Speaker 1: Buddha con Well, the story is quick. Um. I wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: I was finishing Ted's fifth album UH down at Criteria

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Speaker 1: in Miami, and I had about two weeks to go.

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Speaker 1: I guess I got a call from uh Lenny Pizze,

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Speaker 1: who was then Um. Yeah, he called me and he said, listen,

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Speaker 1: Cheap Trick is going to record in Japan at Buddha

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Speaker 1: con Um. We want you to go over there. And

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Speaker 1: and oversee the project. And I said, I can't leave ted.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm busy here. I gotta finish this album. And

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Speaker 1: um so I'm I missed out on a wonderful experience.

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Speaker 1: Um you know which which was going. I've been to

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Speaker 1: Tokyo twice and I really love it. And boy were

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Speaker 1: they They were loved in Japan. So um that was that.

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Speaker 1: And and and we when we did Heaven Tonight, I

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Speaker 1: think it was Heaven Tonight or was it dream Police?

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Speaker 1: Dream Police that you put on the back burner? That's right,

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Speaker 1: we did. We finished dream Police in one month start

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Speaker 1: to finish, which was a real feat at that time,

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Speaker 1: not not these days, not even twenty years ago, but

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Speaker 1: in the seventies it was. It was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: And we we we broke our backs to finish that

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Speaker 1: because they were going out on tour and then Boudhican

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Speaker 1: exploded and they put Dream Police on the shelf for

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Speaker 1: eight months and that was that. Okay, to what degree

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Speaker 1: were you involved? Because I remember buying Buddhakan as an

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Speaker 1: import and then they were playing if you want Me

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Speaker 1: to Want Me, Want you to Want Me? On radio

355
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Speaker 1: and then it ultimately had a US release to what

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Speaker 1: did we were you involved in the album's production? None,

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Speaker 1: not whatsoever? You were at the label? Whose decision was

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Speaker 1: it to release the record in America? Well it was

359
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Speaker 1: I can't remember. I can't remember, but obviously it would

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Speaker 1: have been that it would have been the head of marketing,

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Speaker 1: the head of of an R, or the head of

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Speaker 1: the label Ronald Lexemburg at that time. Um it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a huge hit in uh in Japan, so

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Speaker 1: you know it was it was ours, it was free

365
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Speaker 1: and why not? It was an established band. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: dream Police comes out and it is not a success

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Speaker 1: full as he anticipated. It was like the whole world

368
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: was primed. I thought the quality was not as good

369
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Speaker 1: in the sales were not as good. What was their

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Speaker 1: perspective from your eyes? I thought the quality was was

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Speaker 1: very good. I thought it was the production values. We're

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Speaker 1: uh up up to Heaven Tonight. Um Entry Police was

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Speaker 1: was a reasonably successful single. I think the album was

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Speaker 1: did go platinum. So I don't know what what people expected,

375
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Speaker 1: but uh, it was. It was a hit album. I

376
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Speaker 1: mean all Heaven Tonight, Entry and Police were both platinum,

377
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Speaker 1: so I think it did as well as Heaven Tonight.

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Speaker 1: So How did it end with you in Cheap Trick, Well,

379
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Speaker 1: it ended amicably, but they decided to go with George Martin,

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Speaker 1: and I certainly couldn't argue with that. But it turns

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Speaker 1: out that that that the album they made with George

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00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: Martin was a relative stiff UH compared to the albums

383
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Speaker 1: that we had done in terms of sales. It's a

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Speaker 1: great album, but it it didn't. It didn't certainly didn't

385
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Speaker 1: do what I think everyone expected it to do, especially

386
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Speaker 1: with Sir George's involvement. And I have the greatest respect

387
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Speaker 1: for Sir George. Okay, but then they go on their

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Speaker 1: own journey of producer after producer. How can they will

389
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: come back to you? Who knows? Who knows? You know

390
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: you can make? I think making three or or more

391
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Speaker 1: albums with with the band for a producer is a

392
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Speaker 1: good run. UM. Many bands in those days went from

393
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Speaker 1: producer to producer every single album they made. Some stayed

394
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: with the same UH successful um formula UH for for

395
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Speaker 1: a long time. But I think it's perfectly natural for

396
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: UH Motley Crue two switch producers. After three albums with

397
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Speaker 1: me for Cheap Trick Um, the only UM see I

398
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: I did five records with Ted and five records with

399
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Speaker 1: Molly Hatchett. Um. Leaving those bands, it was my decision. Um.

400
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Speaker 1: But if a band chooses to leave, you know, they

401
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 1: want to grow in a different direction. They want a

402
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: producer who contributes different things. A producer's input can get

403
00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: pretty stale too, you know. Uh, you have a specific

404
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: way of making a record and and specific talents musical

405
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: thoughts and ideas. Um. You know, I was good at

406
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: certain things. Other producers may have appealed to the band

407
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: because they're they were good at other things that the

408
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: band thought they needed. What things were you What things

409
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: were you good at? I was good at percussion. I

410
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: was good I think at UM, song structure, harmony, UH,

411
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Speaker 1: guitar fills in particular UM, working with the guitar player

412
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Speaker 1: UM and arranging keyboards or keyboard overdubs because most of

413
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: the band's didn't have keyboards, so there was a lot

414
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Speaker 1: of actual uh you know, musical composition or or or

415
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: bowl string that that I did. Um. I was not

416
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Speaker 1: at all tech nicol um. But uh, you know, there

417
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: may be in In many instances, a band can be

418
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 1: very fond of another band and they'll say, well, maybe

419
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Speaker 1: you know, if we use their producer, we can sound

420
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: we can we can get better, we can sound more

421
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: like them. We can you know, change. Okay, so let's

422
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. Where are you from Boston? Boston?

423
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: And you? Uh, what do your parents do for a

424
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: living in Boston. Well, they're both they they are both

425
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: died a long time ago. Uh. My father was in

426
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: real estate. He managed a few, a few holdings for

427
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: his family. He had uh siblings and they all we're

428
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: in partnership and he was the manager. UM. He retired

429
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: when he was about My mother was an interior decorator

430
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: and an executive secretary at Harvard and then head of

431
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: the what was it, the Boston Society of Architects UM

432
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: had secretary. So they were both heavily educated. And I

433
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: they sent me to private school and I was a

434
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: preppy and in an ivy league guy, and they hoped

435
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: that I would be a CEO, and I had absolutely

436
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: no talent for being a CEO because I I couldn't

437
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: see the big picture at all. I see, I don't.

438
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: I not only can't see the forest for the trees,

439
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: I see the bark, I can't. I can't even see

440
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: the tree. So producing was a good thing for me

441
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: to get into. Eventually, they were devastated when I went.

442
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: I told them I was leaving the ad agency for

443
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: rock and roll for CBS. Okay, let's go a little

444
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: bit slower. How many kids in the family in my family?

445
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: Or do I know your siblings? Just one sister, older sister? Okay?

446
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: Did you did she fly the straight and narrow? Yes? Okay.

447
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: So you go to Columbia and you're a music major. No, no, no,

448
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: I can't read and I can't write. Um, it's just

449
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: all in my head. I was wanted to be an

450
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: English major, wound up being a major and something called

451
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: economic geography. What the hell is that? Well, it's hard

452
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: to explain. It's like why is the wheat belt where

453
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: it is? Um. It was a strange, kind of an

454
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: amorphous subject um that had to do with the client

455
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: and topography and industry. UM. The only reason I I

456
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: majored in it was because I took it because it

457
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: sounded interesting. One course, I aced the final and the

458
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: professor said, if you have any interest in majoring in

459
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: this subject, I would highly recommend that you do. So

460
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: I said, I'm in because English. I loved English. UM.

461
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: And and uh. There are certain required courses in order

462
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: to major in a subject, and one of the required

463
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: courses was the history of English literature from sixteen sixteen

464
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: to seventeen eighty nine. And boy is that dry? I mean, ah, yeah,

465
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: I just couldn't pack it. So I said, I'm like,

466
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: I can't major in English. I've got to find in

467
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: another major. And I was busy playing guitar anyway. So

468
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: that begs the question, when did you get the music bug?

469
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: I think when I was I had it all my life,

470
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: but when I was nine. Yeah, I was just very

471
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: fortunate to be born at the right time. Elvis. I

472
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: discovered Elvis when I was nine. That was when he started,

473
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: really when he came on the scene. I'm the first

474
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: record I ever bought was Milkow Blues Boogie. And I

475
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: used to stand in front of the mirror and and

476
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: air guitar and and lip sync two Elvis records for

477
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: hours and hours, and I found that I just I

478
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: just absorbed all every song that I that I liked,

479
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: and I liked a lot of them, uh than in

480
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: the in the late fifties and mid fifties. Um, I

481
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: absorbed every single detail I I listened to serious uh

482
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: in my car now, and I'll listen to UM the

483
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: fifties on fifty and I'll hear a song that I

484
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: haven't heard since and and I'll know every lick and

485
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: and and it's a it's a damn shame because sometimes,

486
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: you know, I can't remember my wife's name, and yet

487
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: I remember all of these other things. I've got a

488
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: giant library of sound in my head. Um. I just

489
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: I just had to uh, you know, I have to

490
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: say that one of the one of the things that

491
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: really convinced me to take music, the music business seriously.

492
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: I saw three concerts in New York while I was

493
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: in college, uh and graduate school. Um. I saw the

494
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: Beatles first New York show at Carnegie Hall. I saw

495
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: the Stones first show in New York. And the best

496
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: one was the Who at the Fillmore East, playing Tommy

497
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: for the first time in America. And I was just

498
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: I mean it was. It was a major experience for me,

499
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: and I could not stay away from rock and roll.

500
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: I just could. So, I you know, I was in

501
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: an addie agency. I made a very foolish mistake, and

502
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: I hated my job. So I finally after a year

503
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: there I wrote a letter to Clive and and I said, listen,

504
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: I have an be a and and I have a job,

505
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 1: and I hate it, and I know a lot about

506
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: rock and roll. I'm a musician, and I think you

507
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: could benefit from my work there. And so I started

508
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: to interview and after a few months they hired me. Okay,

509
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: let's go back. So you listen to the Elvis songs.

510
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: When do you start to play? Around fourteen? Um, I

511
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: am found a guitar in my aunt's attic, really old guitar,

512
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: and I taught myself how to play. Um. I got

513
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 1: a few lessons in fingerpicking from Jim Queskin. From Jim Queskin,

514
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: the actual Jim Queskin. What was he up to when

515
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: you were taking lessons? Well, I wasn't taking lessons. He

516
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: was His father and my father were room mates, uh

517
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 1: in grad school, and Jim was that bu at the

518
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: time at Boston University, and so we had Jim over

519
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: for Sunday meals, you know, from time to time. He

520
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: was a starving college kid and I had I was

521
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: learning the guitar on my own, and so he he

522
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: taught me how to scrugs pick freight train and and

523
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: you said, a bunch of songs, um, and and then

524
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, a few years later I would go to

525
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: Club forty seven and see the jug band. Um. I

526
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: recently saw Jim up here in the Berkshires with Jeff Muldar.

527
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: It was going. Know, he lives in Connecticut. I hear

528
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: from him every once in a while. You saw them

529
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: and they were playing, or you just interact, Oh yeah, no, no, no,

530
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: they Jim. Jeff's been up here twice in the last

531
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: seven or eight years. He probably comes more frequently than that.

532
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: But Um, Jim was playing and they were great. I

533
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 1: mean they were just as good as they used to be. Okay,

534
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: so you start playing, you form bands in high school. Yeah,

535
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: I had a folk of folk group initially, UM we had.

536
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: We used to rehearse every Sunday. We were six seventeen

537
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: and uh, we didn't have any gigs, and we would

538
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: finally got a couple of sweet sixteen parties in you know,

539
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: in in suburban homes, and we found ourselves singing to

540
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: actually just two of us, my friend and I would

541
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: would take our guitars and harmonize and we would sing

542
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: Josh White songs about syphilis and and death and heavy

543
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: blues we had no idea what we were saying about,

544
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: and the sixteen year old girls who were who were

545
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: surrounding us, you know, on the living room floor, really

546
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: had no idea what we were saying about. But we

547
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: got paid. We enjoyed it, and I said, you know,

548
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,839
Speaker 1: this is a good thing. I like this. So when

549
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: I got to college, UM, I got into a band

550
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: right away, and then I formed my own band with

551
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: with what We formed a band when I was a

552
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: sophomore that was very uh successful, and unfortunately I turned

553
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: down an opportunity to go pro um because of Vietnam. Okay,

554
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: what kind of music did that band? Player? Covers Beatles, stones,

555
00:41:54,800 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: and birds almost exclusively, and maybe you know, uh one

556
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: or two motown things. And we were very we were

557
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: very good. Actually we played all over the Northeast colleges. UM.

558
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: We had a gig at one of three discos in

559
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: New York in n and Um we played a private

560
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: party I can't remember at whose place it was baby

561
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: Vincent Sarti and and thattt Weiss was there, and and

562
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: that Weiss introduced himself. We took a break and he said,

563
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: I Brian Epstein's lawyer, attorney in the States, and I

564
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: think you're good, and I think Brian would like to

565
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: hear you. And the conversation went something like, well, listen,

566
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: what would happen if we made a hit? We'd have

567
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: to go on tour, right And he replied, well, that's

568
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: what they usually do, and and I said, I'm sorry,

569
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: we can't do that because we're students and we'd lose

570
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: our deferment. And that was that. Okay. So you lived

571
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: through quite a change starting with Elvis. Then the pop

572
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: music of the early sixties was you know, bland, but

573
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: there was a big folks and then the Beatles hit.

574
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: What was it like living through that era? Fabulous? It

575
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: was just fabulous. I mean the avalanche of creativity that

576
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: came from England, you know, between nineteen whatever sixty three,

577
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: and it was it was unbelievable, overwhelming. Um there's the

578
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 1: most wonderful time to be a musician, to listen to music. Um,

579
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: I just I just loved it. I just look. Did

580
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: you like the Beatles right away? Like him? I I

581
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: ached to be a Beatle. They were they Elvis established

582
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: the cool bar, you know, in the mid fifties, and

583
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: he was the coolest thing you could be. When the

584
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: Beatles came along. They elevated the cool bar like infinitely,

585
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 1: and I said, she h, I mean aside from the

586
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: fact that they were the most the coolest guys in

587
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: the world. And we sat down. My My, uh, the

588
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: lead guitarists from our band and I sat down when

589
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: we met, and we reeled off together about twelve Beatles

590
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: songs and we both knew all the chords. We had

591
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: figured figured out how to play Beatles songs. The I

592
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: don't have any words for the Beatles. They were, you know,

593
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: they were the Beatles. I met George once. That was

594
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: really great. What was the experience, Well, you know, a

595
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: CBS convention. I don't know if you were ever familiar

596
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: with the CBS convention. They in the summer. We had

597
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,479
Speaker 1: a sales convention at a different place every year, and

598
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: there would be dinner shows in the grand ballroom of

599
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: whatever hotel we were at. And these were dinner shows

600
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: for twelve hundred people, and Clive would invite every big

601
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: star that he possibly could, because you know, Clive loves

602
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: the company of big stars. And we were in London,

603
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: and uh, I was I. I had been in charge

604
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: of the English roster for Epic Records, and I was

605
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: with Jeff Beck and his and his girlfriend Celia, and

606
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: he was a guest at the show, and we were

607
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 1: down front. Um, otherwise I would have been back somewhere

608
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: in the rear, and we were. We get to our

609
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: table and um, having a glass of wine, and I

610
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: look around and at the next table making Keith. At

611
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: the next table, I just ploted. I couldn't believe it,

612
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: and and and so I'm trying to gather my wits

613
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: and a few minutes go by, and I look at

614
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: the table behind them, George and Ringo, and it was like,

615
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: you know, it was it was laughable, and I was.

616
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: I was, I don't think I've ever been so dazzled

617
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: in my life. So, you know, three four glasses of

618
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: wine later, George gets up to go to the men's room,

619
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: and I swallowed my pride and followed him into the ment.

620
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 1: I prudently waited till he washed his hands, and then

621
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: I introduced myself, and jeez, I just, you know, I

622
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: just hanging around and being with and working with celebrities,

623
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: and I knew that this was not a cool thing

624
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: to do, you know, go over to somebody's table and

625
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: say hi, I don't want to interrupt your dinner, but

626
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to interrupt your dinner and ask me, you know.

627
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: So I felt awkward, but he was polite and we talked.

628
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: I told him who I was and who I worked

629
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: for and blah blah blah, and how what an incredible

630
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: influence that that the Beatles were on me? And I

631
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 1: could see me he was being polite, But then I

632
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 1: was desperate to prolonged the conversation, so I I started

633
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: to ask him about some of his um the guitar

634
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: parts he it um specifically. I remember asking him about

635
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: the little duet he played with himself, I got to

636
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: get you into my life, and and I mentioned the

637
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: the Revolver songs because that was his that was his

638
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 1: moment George as a writer. I think he had like

639
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: four maybe four songs on that album, including tax Man

640
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: and I want to tell You Great Rifle, Oh yeah,

641
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and and so he um snapped to attention.

642
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: Really um. I could kind of tell that his eyes

643
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: were glazing over. But when we started talking about the guitar,

644
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: he said, oh yeah, so this guy knows something. Anyway,

645
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: that that was a wonderful experience. Okay, so who sang

646
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: in the band I did, and and the other guitarist. Okay,

647
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: so how do you decide to get an m B A. Well,

648
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: I didn't. Um. I didn't make any decisions in my

649
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: life until I was UM. I just was a trained poodle,

650
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, a trained seal. And I did what my

651
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,919
Speaker 1: parents wanted me to do. They invested a lot in me,

652
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to disappoint them. So I went

653
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: to business school and also graduate school offered the chance

654
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: to lengthen, to prolong your educational deferment, and I didn't.

655
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 1: I disagreed with Vietnam. I didn't want to go to Vietnam.

656
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: So um dad had gone to Harvard Business School. I

657
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: I just went and got an m B A. I.

658
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: I was a stranger in a strange land. I didn't

659
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: enjoy it at all. I didn't do very well. Um.

660
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: But then you know, I got job offers from three companies,

661
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: and one of them was CBS Records, which I which

662
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: I considered too small, and and and we actually went

663
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: for the money in those days instead of doing what

664
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 1: we thought would would be, you know, something we'd enjoy.

665
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: I I was just I had no idea what I

666
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 1: was doing. So um I made my I made the

667
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: decision to take control of my life when I was

668
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: and desperate to get out of the AD Agency. Okay,

669
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: in retrospect, any benefit of going to get an m

670
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: b A other than deferring Vietnam for me? No, um I.

671
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: I was concentrated in marketing, and I always called marketing

672
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: advanced common sense. It's it was like we we would have,

673
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 1: of course is uh called human behavior and organizations. Yeah,

674
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: you know, and uh courses like that, and and then

675
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: we we'd have other courses that were mind blowing, uh,

676
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: just incredibly difficult for me. Operations research, which has advanced

677
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: statistical analysis. What am I going to do with that?

678
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: Am I ever going to use that? Not a chance?

679
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: So you know, I I gretted my teeth. Fortunately, we

680
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: had the riots that year at Columbia and they they

681
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: instituted past bail for the spring semester. And that's when

682
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: I was taking operations research. Okay, you know that was

683
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: a big deal, the Strawberry statement, et cetera. Were you

684
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: part of those protests? No? I had friends in the buildings.

685
00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: Um I visited, but I did not. Um I did

686
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 1: not occupy. I was not an occupier. I was not

687
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 1: a demonstrator. I was sympathetic and I went to demonstrations

688
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: as a part of a crowd, but I did not

689
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: go into the buildings. Um. I was hospitalized, but not

690
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: on campus. I got savagely beat by by the NYPD

691
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: downtown at another demonstration, but at at Columbia. No. Okay,

692
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 1: So how did you know you graduate the Vietnam War

693
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: is still going on? How do you ultimately not go

694
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: to Vietnam? Well, I my number didn't come up. You know,

695
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: uh things things were over pretty soon after I graduated,

696
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: or you know, I had a I had a high number.

697
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: I think it was in the two as did I ultimately,

698
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,319
Speaker 1: thank god. So but they were not drafting that many

699
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: people at that point. Let's talk about some of your productions.

700
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: Gary Myrick tell us the story there. I don't remember

701
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: how I got into involved with Gary, but I loved him. Um.

702
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,479
Speaker 1: We had a wonderful We had a lot of fun.

703
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: Um I know he had I know she talks in stereo?

704
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: Was in What Valley Girl? Um? I was a fean

705
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: of Gary Myrick. So I I bought the album. I

706
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 1: went to seemn roxy the fact it was invaluable secondary

707
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: to me right right. Well, he was. He was unique.

708
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: He was probably a little ahead of his time. Um,

709
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: I loved it, and it didn't it didn't happen there.

710
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: You know that he was part of a handful of

711
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: bands that I worked with um over that twenty years

712
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: that didn't make it, that I thought were brilliant. But

713
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: in his case, he didn't even make another record for

714
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: a long time. He probably didn't. I lost track of

715
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: of Gary. I saw him again in Austin, Texas years later,

716
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: but um, he was great. I enjoyed him. Tell us

717
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: the story of Molly Hatchet. Um. I was remixing Southern

718
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: Girls uh for for cheap trick, uh so we could

719
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: release it as a single down at that studio in Atlanta,

720
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: UM with with that engineer that I that that did

721
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: the Ted Nugent Records with me and the manager for

722
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: this band from from Florida called me up and said,

723
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,399
Speaker 1: I'd like to bring my band into your studio. They

724
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 1: can audition for you right there while you're working. And fine,

725
00:54:55,000 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, I think I may have heard a demo. UM.

726
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: So I was agreeable. They came in, we took a

727
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: break from mixing. They set up in the studio blew

728
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:10,879
Speaker 1: me away and I said, I really, you guys are good.

729
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: I'd like to sign you. And it was that simple.

730
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: We we did it. Um. I had never seen the

731
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 1: three guitar UH attack since skinnered and UM. You know

732
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: these Southern guys, they're tough guys, their street guys, but

733
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: they've got this almost delicate approach to uh two guitar

734
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: harmonies and parts. They're just I don't know how to

735
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: describe it, but but they're they're superb pickers, they're superb

736
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: players and sometimes syrupy suite. There was a guy in

737
00:55:55,200 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: Molly Hatchett, Dwayne Rowland, who he came from a broken home.

738
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: He was shot in the stomach by his father, and

739
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: he was he was one of the most amazing guitarists

740
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. He never looked at the neck. He

741
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: doubled all his parts. Um. They were great, UH and

742
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 1: it was new to me, It was it was really new.

743
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: I found myself down in Orlando making their records, and

744
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: they would invite me out to two bars with them

745
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,720
Speaker 1: after the after the session, where they like to drink

746
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: gallons of Jack Daniels and then clear the bar. They

747
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: loved to fight and here, I am as nice Jewish

748
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,839
Speaker 1: boy from Boston. What am I doing here? What am

749
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: I doing with these guys? We had a great We

750
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 1: had a great time. We made five records together. I

751
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 1: just enjoyed being in their world, you know, and they

752
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 1: appreciated the actually appreciated me. We had nothing in common

753
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 1: in terms of lifestyle. It was It was great though, Okay,

754
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: whose decision was it to cover Dreams? Which was an

755
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: Almond Brothers song seen as part of the southern rock cannon.

756
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: Yet Molly Hatchett's version was quite dramatic in some ways,

757
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 1: even superior um. It was a guitar tour divorce, and

758
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: it was their idea. I wasn't really familiar with the

759
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 1: song when when they they they suggested that they do it,

760
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: and it was quite something in terms of guitar and uh,

761
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: what kind of input did you have with Molly Hatchett?

762
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: A lot, um well, about as much as I do

763
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:57,439
Speaker 1: with anybody. Their songs were more um complete, more well

764
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: formed by the time they got into the stud video

765
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: they had their guitar solos together, which was which was

766
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: saying a lot for a band like Molly Hatchett, you know,

767
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: with with bands like especially with cheap tricks. Sometimes Rick

768
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: would come into the studio with fragments, and in the

769
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: studio while we were there, he would put maybe one

770
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: chorus from one song with the verse from another song.

771
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of work in progress in

772
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: the studio there. It was. It wasn't spontaneous, but it

773
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: was not over rehearsed. Molly Hatchett had their had their

774
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: parts down because they played live a lot. And ultimately,

775
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: how do you leave epic and go independent? Well, the

776
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: truth is I had I had an office in the

777
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: Carlsburg Building over by Century City, I had a secretary,

778
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 1: I had a good salary, but I never went in

779
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: and I spent every day in the studio. I was

780
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: just producing, producing, producing, cranking him out. And Dick Asher,

781
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 1: who was then president of CBS Records, came to town.

782
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 1: I went to Dick, and I guess I I guess

783
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: I believed in what I was saying that. I said, Dick,

784
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: I think I deserve a raise. And he said, well, Tom,

785
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's not the same record business that it

786
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,280
Speaker 1: used to be. And he made this this excuse. In

787
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: that excuse, and I said, listen, I Dick, I really

788
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: I like you, and I love being here. I've been

789
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 1: here for twelve years. But if I don't get this raise,

790
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to go somewhere else. And he

791
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: held firm and I left. Um. I was also, you know,

792
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: Joe Smith hired me at that point away from CBS

793
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: to go and be head of A and R at Electra,

794
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: and this was I said, Well at the time, I said,

795
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's time for me to go back

796
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: into the office and be an executive. And also, you know,

797
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: I can produce a few records for Electra and it's

798
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: a class label. And uh he did hire me. I

799
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: started there, and then Krasnow came in and I just

800
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: couldn't deal. So I left after three months. But but

801
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: really I left CBS because I didn't think they were

802
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: paying me enough. Um, I didn't make a real uh royalty.

803
01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: I was making a third of what independent producers make.

804
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: And I sold billions and millions and millions of records

805
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 1: for Epic, you know, as a producer, and uh so

806
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: so so I said, I was a little frustrated by that.

807
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: And when I left, you know, I started making a

808
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: real street royalty. I mean, the same thing that other

809
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 1: successful producers made. So was your tenure at Electra. How

810
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: you got hooked up with Motley Crewe. Yeah, Tom Zoo

811
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: Taught was my assistant, and he wound up at you know,

812
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: he's he's he signed Guns and Roses and he was

813
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: a very good day in arm Man after he left Electra,

814
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 1: and he was he was a very good day in

815
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 1: arm And at Electra. But he he was at that

816
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 1: time my assistant, and he had signed Motley Crewe to

817
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: the label and he said, Wrman, I think you'd be

818
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 1: really the right producer for Motley Crewe. And just at

819
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: that time, um we made the record. It took off instantly,

820
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: and kras Now had come in and told us at

821
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: lunch with Bruce lund Ball, who was now second in

822
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: command at Electra, the first thing I'm gonna do is

823
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: dropped Motley Crew their embarrassment to this label. I said,

824
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, as politely as I could, Bob Um. You know,

825
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: I have a great respect for your ear and for

826
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: the music you've you know, you've signed over at at

827
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers. But somebody has to pay the bills, and

828
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: this is, you know, kind of my meat and potatoes.

829
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: Why don't you just let me take care of this

830
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: side of the roster. Uh, and he he wouldn't have it,

831
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: So I, uh, it was too late at that point

832
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: for him to drop Motley Crew. It would have been

833
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: a huge mistake and a big embarrassment to him. So

834
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: I said, Bob, I can't, I can't. You know, he

835
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: wanted to be head of an art. He wouldn't let

836
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:22,320
Speaker 1: me do my job. So I left and they said,

837
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: would you, you know, make a deal with us, We

838
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: to do three albums a year, And I said sure, sure,

839
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: And Motley Crew was the first of those albums. Shouted

840
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 1: shout at the devil. And what were the other albums

841
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: of that three album deal? Theater of Pain and Girls

842
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: Girls Girls. Okay, so the deal was three Motley Crewe albums,

843
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: not three albums on the Electra roster. It was three

844
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: albums on the Elector roster. Um. The other one I

845
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 1: did right away was Docking to the Nail. Okay. So

846
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,000
Speaker 1: what was it like? Work? You know, Molly Crew was

847
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 1: the street band. They had an independent records. You taught

848
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: signed them, you work. When they blew up? What was

849
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: it like because suddenly it went nuclear? Yeah, it was

850
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: a surprise to me, not that they could sell records

851
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:24,600
Speaker 1: but how dominant they became h on on the l

852
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 1: A scene, and and and how huge it it became nationally. Uh,

853
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: I just never I've never seen that. That had never

854
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 1: happened with one of my bands. Um, So it was great.

855
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 1: And again it was an association that I really enjoyed

856
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 1: because they were the real bad boys of rock and

857
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: roll at the time. They they were so far from

858
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: what I was and how I grew up that it

859
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 1: was fascinating, and I enjoyed the outlaw association, you know.

860
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 1: It was kind of, I don't know, walk on the

861
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:14,479
Speaker 1: wild side. I go out on the road with them,

862
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 1: and I've never seen anything like it, you know, And

863
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:24,680
Speaker 1: it was it was fun. It was a lot of fun.

864
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed working with Mick um highly underrated guitar player. Um.

865
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:38,240
Speaker 1: Tommy was great. Nicky was dark, a little secretive. Tommy

866
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 1: was It was wonderful. He was a real He's like

867
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 1: a puppy dog. He's, you know, very enthusiastic about everything,

868
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: very cooperative and funny. Vince was great, but he was

869
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: he put party ahead of vocal. And what input did

870
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: you have to those wrecks? Well quite a bit, although

871
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: Nikki did throw out a little fiction. Uh in the

872
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 1: in in his Heroin Diaries book, Um, I I did

873
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: a lot of of stuff, a lot of musical. I

874
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: made a lot of musical contributions on on the records.

875
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 1: Because they were distracted, I could kind of get away

876
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:35,440
Speaker 1: with uh, you know, with doing more of what I

877
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 1: wanted because they didn't seem to care that much. Nikki

878
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: was very serious and took the band very seriously and

879
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 1: as a serious songwriter. But they partied, you know then,

880
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 1: and they were there was a time there when they

881
01:06:54,840 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: were doing hard drugs, which is not conducive to either,

882
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 1: you know, decision making or progress in the studio. And

883
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: how do you handle a band that's on hard drugs?

884
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 1: Is your responsibility? Or you keep it at arms length? Well,

885
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: you you know, you try to be uh, you try

886
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: to join the band for the duration of the project. Um,

887
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 1: but you can't be too palsy. You can't get too

888
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: close with them because you have to at least try

889
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: to maintain some sense of authority. UM. You know, you

890
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: talk to them about why you guys are wasting a

891
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: lot of money. You gotta you really should show up

892
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: on time. We have to do this particular thing. Tomorrow,

893
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 1: so please don't go out tonight or don't you know

894
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 1: you try your best um to be uh, to talk

895
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: some sense into them. But you know, it's like Keith

896
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: Richards if you know, if you're if the session is

897
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: called for two pm and he doesn't show up till midnight,

898
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 1: what can you do? You sit there and you wait. Um.

899
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: You know when Nikki, when Nikki o'deed and was pronounced dead.

900
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:28,799
Speaker 1: I called him the afternoon of the morning he was released,

901
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: and he said, you want to go out for sushi?

902
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: And we had sushi at some place in the valley.

903
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 1: Uh and and he was he had been pronounced dead

904
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 1: the night before. He was blue. And that's how these

905
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 1: guys were. I end up working with Poison. They also

906
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: had an independent label and I think you did independent

907
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 1: record that you did their first studio major label record.

908
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: They actually Rick Browdy did there did h It was

909
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 1: a talk dirty to me? Was that the name of

910
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: the album? I don't remember, but but he did their

911
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 1: first album. UM. Tom Wally was an A and R

912
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 1: man um you know at Capital. I think he signed

913
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:23,400
Speaker 1: them and he called me and said, I'm interested in

914
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:29,759
Speaker 1: having you produced this band. Uh, and we Tom Moehler,

915
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: their manager, arranged a lunch meeting between us, and they

916
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 1: had wanted I was told that they had wanted Paul

917
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 1: Stanley to produce the record, but he couldn't. So, UM

918
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:48,360
Speaker 1: my name came up and we met and we got

919
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 1: along and uh, you know that that was a really

920
01:09:56,240 --> 01:10:01,600
Speaker 1: enjoyable project. Hard for me, uh, really difficult. And the

921
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: guys were very frank, especially Ricky and cc uh would

922
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 1: would say things like, I know I'm not, you know,

923
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: the best musician in the world, but you know, I'll

924
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 1: give it my best shot. And they were I didn't

925
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: use any ringers. I almost I used three ringers in

926
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 1: in my whole career for one or two songs. Um,

927
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 1: they did everything. People always ask me, Uh, did did

928
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 1: they really do this on poison? Did they do this?

929
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 1: They do that? There was there was. I used Willie

930
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: Nelson's harmonica player to do some harmonica parts and that

931
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 1: was it. Um, they were good guys. That that was

932
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,560
Speaker 1: a fun, a fun project. Then I was really surprised

933
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 1: that we had four top ten singles from that album.

934
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 1: Was a huge album. Absolutely. So at this point in time,

935
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 1: you're completely independent. How are you getting gigs? You're waiting

936
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 1: for the phone to ring or you're pitching yourself. Um.

937
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 1: By the time poison came around, UM, I could see

938
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 1: the writing on the wall in terms of musical change. UM,

939
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: I was getting a little burnt out, and I kind

940
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: of was preparing for uh, the other side of the hill,

941
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: because you don't good producers can have careers at last

942
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: five years, ten years. Um mine mine lasted twenty years.

943
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 1: There's a handful out there legends who produced hits for

944
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: their entire lives. I knew that I wasn't one of those.

945
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 1: And UM, with the advent of ah never mind, I said,

946
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 1: wait a minute. You know, I left her the studio

947
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:23,120
Speaker 1: one day and I heard my daughter playing license to

948
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 1: Ill and I went to her doorway of her room

949
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 1: and I said, Julia, well, Jules, I said, how can

950
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: you listen to that? It sounds like it was made

951
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 1: in five minutes, because that's how I felt. And she said,

952
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:46,439
Speaker 1: but Dad, that's exactly it. And I said, oh shit,

953
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 1: everything I know is wrong. And you know, from that

954
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: time on the qualities that I tried to to have

955
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: for my records, UM, you know, timing, tuning, meter, UM organization.

956
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 1: We're not only um you know ignored they were rejected

957
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: by musicians. So I said, man, I can't make these records.

958
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 1: I you know, I don't. This is not this is

959
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: not what I do. My whole musical sense, uh would

960
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:38,919
Speaker 1: not allow me to contribute to these to these bands,

961
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't work with me because to work with

962
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 1: a producer who did Motley Crew in the early nineties

963
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 1: would be embarrassing and it would literally lose the band's

964
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:58,760
Speaker 1: street credibility, you know, it would be an embarrassment to them.

965
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:05,680
Speaker 1: So I started to um, you know, I had projects,

966
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: but I started to think about doing something else, you know,

967
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 1: and and walking away, which eventually I did, but it

968
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: took about seven or eight more years. So what was

969
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 1: that process and how did you decide to ultimately pull

970
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 1: the ripcord. Well, I wasn't working for a couple of years.

971
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 1: I did UM, I did kicks, I did l a guns,

972
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: I did lead a forward UM. I did three bands

973
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 1: for Geffen that need, none of which succeeded interesting bands,

974
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: and I would I played a lot of golf, and

975
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 1: I played a lot of golf with my good friend

976
01:14:57,479 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 1: Tom Kelly. It was a song her saying or he

977
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:06,040
Speaker 1: wrote like a virgant and many others, and I would

978
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 1: bitch and moaned to him, and he he said, you

979
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 1: should read this book. And he gave me a book

980
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 1: called Who Moved My Cheese? And I read it in

981
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 1: forty minutes. And I stood up and I said, what

982
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:25,799
Speaker 1: am I doing? I need to move on. I need

983
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 1: to go with the changes, reinvent myself. And honest to God,

984
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: two weeks later I was here in the Berkshires. I

985
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 1: found you know, this farm, this place, um. And that

986
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:50,600
Speaker 1: was in February. In July, I had sold two houses

987
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 1: and we were living here and I mean it was quick,

988
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,640
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And and we renovated this place for

989
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 1: eight months and then we opened up. Linda Ronstadt was

990
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 1: our first guest, and Boylan came and Shelley Schultz came.

991
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 1: And we've been doing it for the last twenty years

992
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:18,719
Speaker 1: and it's been bliss. Okay, let's just go back before

993
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 1: we go forward. How did you hook up with Twisted Sister? Oh? My,

994
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 1: here we go. Uh. Doug Morris called me and he

995
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:33,680
Speaker 1: called me at home and he said, listen, I have

996
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:40,639
Speaker 1: this band. Um. They're big in Europe, but they can't

997
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,479
Speaker 1: get arrested. He said that I can't get arrested in

998
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:46,519
Speaker 1: in the United States. I think you are the only

999
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: guy who can make a hit record with them. You know,

1000
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:55,639
Speaker 1: when a guy when when Doug Morris calls you, when

1001
01:16:55,680 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 1: the president of a major label calls you and says,

1002
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 1: please do this record for me, you do it. It's

1003
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:09,600
Speaker 1: that simple. So you know, I flew to somewhere in Pennsylvania, Harrisburg,

1004
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,639
Speaker 1: I think, to see them play in a club. We

1005
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:15,759
Speaker 1: had a good meeting. They seemed like really nice guys,

1006
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:21,839
Speaker 1: and I I'm sure that they wanted there was somebody

1007
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 1: else I can't remember who that they wanted to produce them.

1008
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: But they agreed and we went into the studio and

1009
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:39,480
Speaker 1: everything seemed to go well, and it certainly did commercially. Um.

1010
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 1: But but after after we left the studio and the

1011
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: recording was done and approved by the Snyder um he Um.

1012
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:59,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, he turned into some kind of doppelganger.

1013
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: He started bad mouthing me and I I just think

1014
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,800
Speaker 1: my theory was that he had worked so hard on

1015
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:15,879
Speaker 1: this band for so long, um that when they finally

1016
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 1: hit it, uh, he did not want anyone else to

1017
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: get any credit. And I was a known producer at

1018
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 1: the time and I think he was just piste off

1019
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,720
Speaker 1: that people would say, well, you know, they finally got

1020
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:40,480
Speaker 1: the right producer. So we had quite a cantankerous exchange.

1021
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 1: I don't I don't get it. He's still to this day.

1022
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:48,800
Speaker 1: You know, in his book he wrote, I think that

1023
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 1: Tom Warman completely destroyed our album. I mean, you know,

1024
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 1: for a guy who who sold six million albums at

1025
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:07,639
Speaker 1: that time probably millions more by now, that's that's pretty

1026
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:11,519
Speaker 1: strange to say, I would think. But there you go.

1027
01:19:12,240 --> 01:19:15,040
Speaker 1: But they did not have another commercial success after they

1028
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: work with you. Correct, correct, and and and beyond that.

1029
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean, he he mocks me for for suggesting that

1030
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 1: they do this, uh this song, Uh, I can't remember again,

1031
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:30,400
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name Strong Armor with the last

1032
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 1: Saxon a stung by Saxon, this you know, European heavy

1033
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: metal band. And he in interviews he said, can you

1034
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: believe it? He he actually asked us to cover this song.

1035
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: We we used a tour with Saxon, and he just

1036
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,559
Speaker 1: thought that was the most ridiculous thing. And what do

1037
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 1: they do The next next album they do is with

1038
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 1: Theeter Dirk's and what do they release as the single

1039
01:19:55,600 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 1: Leader of the Pack I mean, come on, guys, little

1040
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 1: hypocrisy there. So that's the deal I got. I can't

1041
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:10,240
Speaker 1: talk about you know, I get, I get really I

1042
01:20:10,280 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 1: get a little wound up. Okay, are you continuing to

1043
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 1: get paid on all these records? Yeah? Um. It's very

1044
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 1: interesting what happened with royalties because the royalty stream, you know,

1045
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 1: it was was healthy and then at the turn of

1046
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:36,800
Speaker 1: the century it started to diminish, um, And I could

1047
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:38,680
Speaker 1: see that it was going to go down. And then,

1048
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: you know, who's going to listen to records that were made,

1049
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 1: you know in in the mid nineteen seventies. Now nobody's

1050
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:47,920
Speaker 1: going to go out and by theies, by c d

1051
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 1: s or anything like that. And it continued down till

1052
01:20:52,320 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 1: about ten eight or ten years ago, and miraculous lee,

1053
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:05,599
Speaker 1: it started to increase, and it has been increasing every

1054
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 1: year for the last eight years, um until now. It's uh,

1055
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: it's just just it's a very fortunate mailbox money kind

1056
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 1: of situation. Um. Statements and checks will show up that

1057
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:25,919
Speaker 1: I that are are big surprises, And I'm really grateful

1058
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:32,280
Speaker 1: because streaming has just you know, it's it's just multiplied things.

1059
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:35,559
Speaker 1: You've got every single person in the world who has

1060
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:40,880
Speaker 1: access to the internet can listen to any song they

1061
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:46,640
Speaker 1: want to at any time anywhere. It's amazing. So you know,

1062
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 1: you take, uh, you know, a tenth of assent and

1063
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 1: you multiply it by million people and it amounts to

1064
01:21:56,200 --> 01:22:00,719
Speaker 1: some money. So, yes, I still make money from records

1065
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:05,080
Speaker 1: that I made forty years ago. Do you think you're

1066
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:07,719
Speaker 1: to what degree? If there's a hundred cents on the dollar,

1067
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:13,000
Speaker 1: how much do you think you're getting You mean being

1068
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:18,040
Speaker 1: ripped off, being ripped off by the people who own

1069
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 1: the property are paying you. You know you have you

1070
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 1: ever audited anybody? Yeah? Well, you know, auditing is tough.

1071
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:29,840
Speaker 1: It's very expensive, and people don't do contingency audits anymore

1072
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,480
Speaker 1: um I and and audits also have a statute of limitations.

1073
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 1: So I haven't done any audits. I'm sure as you are,

1074
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:45,679
Speaker 1: and as probably everybody is, that we do not get

1075
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:50,840
Speaker 1: paid what we are contractually owed. But I get paid

1076
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 1: enough so that I really don't care that that it's

1077
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,639
Speaker 1: so it's okay if they want to skim, if they

1078
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 1: want to sheet me. I'm not saying that they do,

1079
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 1: but if they did, it would be okay because they

1080
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:10,920
Speaker 1: pay me enough. That's how I feel, okay, and needless

1081
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 1: to say, you don't get paid on those records you

1082
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:18,080
Speaker 1: made for epic, Um I do. I still I still

1083
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 1: do get paid on those, um the biggest they are

1084
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:28,840
Speaker 1: not it's not very much compared to the compared to

1085
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 1: the others. UM. But yes, well I thought that you

1086
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 1: under your contract you didn't get it, but they like

1087
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:38,840
Speaker 1: kick you and Nickela record, was that ever contractually written down?

1088
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 1: Eventually it was, uh, but you know I it was

1089
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 1: contractually for a nickel you know. So with Ted I

1090
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:57,560
Speaker 1: made a Nickela record starting after the first one, UM

1091
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,559
Speaker 1: and they kept it at a Nickela record. And then

1092
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,599
Speaker 1: I think it was twelve cents for for Cheap Trick,

1093
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:07,000
Speaker 1: probably a little more for Molly Hatchett because after Cheap Trick,

1094
01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:14,280
Speaker 1: I think we made a contract because I started I incorporated.

1095
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 1: Uh my accountant said you should have, you should establish

1096
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:26,599
Speaker 1: a production company, um and and so I did, and

1097
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 1: that production company got a larger royalty, probably twenty cents

1098
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 1: or something like that for for the Molly Hatchet albums.

1099
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 1: So I still get paid on on Ted Nugent, Cheap

1100
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 1: Prick and Molly Hatchett from Sony and and it's you know,

1101
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 1: it's it's nice. I met Tom Corson uh of Warner

1102
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:53,519
Speaker 1: Brothers or Warner Records, UM last year because my son

1103
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,840
Speaker 1: Daniel works works in A and R for Warner and

1104
01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:02,880
Speaker 1: we were visiting him in Los Angeles, and um we

1105
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: were somehow Tom and I got into a little conversation

1106
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:11,679
Speaker 1: about royalties and I said, yeah, it's it's remarkable. Really,

1107
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 1: what's you know how how streaming has uh increased the

1108
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:21,360
Speaker 1: amount of royalties that that I'm making in the last

1109
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 1: two or three years And he said, wait, and UH,

1110
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 1: that was it was great to hear. Apparently, Um, those

1111
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:37,440
Speaker 1: who know think that screaming is well, screaming is obviously

1112
01:25:38,600 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: the wave of the future and the present, but that

1113
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:46,840
Speaker 1: it's going to get even better. So okay, when you

1114
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 1: read the book and you moved to the Berkshire's at

1115
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 1: that time, did you have enough money that you didn't

1116
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 1: have to make any more money for the rest of

1117
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:59,080
Speaker 1: your life or did you have to work? Um? I

1118
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 1: had to. I think I had to work. I have

1119
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: specific goals in terms of finances, uh for my kids

1120
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 1: and m h I had I did I put a

1121
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 1: million and a half dollars into this place right away,

1122
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 1: and and so I and also it was a labor

1123
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 1: of love. I didn't want to retire when I was

1124
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 1: fifty five. I do now and I will in eleven

1125
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:39,080
Speaker 1: months completely we sold UM so Uh I didn't. If

1126
01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:43,840
Speaker 1: if I had been paid uh uh a royalty on

1127
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:48,120
Speaker 1: the bands that I signed to CBS, which have sold

1128
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:52,680
Speaker 1: between a hundred and fifty and two hundred million albums,

1129
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,680
Speaker 1: I would have enough money. Well what bands did you

1130
01:26:56,720 --> 01:27:01,360
Speaker 1: sign that we didn't mention Boston with with Lenny, you

1131
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:08,280
Speaker 1: know that UM I signed m Rio, Ted, Chief Trick,

1132
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 1: Molly Hatchett, and Boston. I tried to sign Rush, Leonard

1133
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:21,760
Speaker 1: skinnerd Kiss, and I tried to get Columbia to sign

1134
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 1: Manhattan Transfer. They didn't listen either. Okay, So you know,

1135
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:30,960
Speaker 1: usually just when you make something definitively I have a

1136
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 1: definitive decision, all of a sudden things pop up in

1137
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,080
Speaker 1: your whole world. So you decide to open a B

1138
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:38,599
Speaker 1: and B in Massachusetts, All of a sudden people track

1139
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 1: it down and produced records. They asked, yes, I'm not interested. Uh.

1140
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 1: I did one single song in the last twenty years

1141
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 1: as a guy sent me a demo and it was

1142
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:56,400
Speaker 1: a It was a novelty song. It was it was.

1143
01:27:56,560 --> 01:28:00,120
Speaker 1: I thought it was extremely clever and if I an

1144
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 1: ace it myself went down to Charlotte and uh and

1145
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:07,559
Speaker 1: we and we did a record there, and you know,

1146
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:09,599
Speaker 1: I didn't know how to promote it. I just wanted

1147
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: to do it. It was great fun. But no, I

1148
01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:18,559
Speaker 1: I'm not interested. The only band that I think I

1149
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 1: could work with, or had thought I could work with

1150
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:28,800
Speaker 1: any time after the turn of the century was Food Fighters. Um,

1151
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:32,600
Speaker 1: I would Dave Grohl is the only idol I have

1152
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 1: who's younger than I am. He's like so so devoted

1153
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:43,559
Speaker 1: to rock and roll. Uh you know, he's he's a

1154
01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:47,600
Speaker 1: wonder a wonderful inspiration, and he's done so much for

1155
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 1: rock and roll. And it was great because he grew

1156
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:57,440
Speaker 1: up knowing that rock and roll was a an integral

1157
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:02,799
Speaker 1: part of American culture and maybe even worldwide culture, whereas

1158
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:09,559
Speaker 1: my generation grew up knowing that our parents hated it,

1159
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 1: that that they thought it was a fat and they

1160
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:16,400
Speaker 1: were waiting for it to go away. And and you

1161
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:18,639
Speaker 1: know when I said, well, I you know, I make

1162
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:21,440
Speaker 1: rock and roll records. When I was in my thirties,

1163
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:26,559
Speaker 1: I didn't have the the satisfaction that I have now

1164
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:30,479
Speaker 1: of of of saying that and thinking that in in

1165
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:38,080
Speaker 1: a very small way, I actually contributed something to American culture. Um.

1166
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:43,400
Speaker 1: Dave grohld was you know? I thought this was the

1167
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 1: coolest thing you could do and one of the most

1168
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:52,520
Speaker 1: legitimate things he could do. Um, probably from birth? Okay,

1169
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:55,720
Speaker 1: why A B and B? Why in the Berkshires? And

1170
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 1: how much of other than construction? How much of the

1171
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:00,040
Speaker 1: day to day did you and your wife actually do?

1172
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:04,599
Speaker 1: I do pretty much everything and have for the last

1173
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 1: twenty years. I have a staff now, even though we're

1174
01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:13,240
Speaker 1: very small. But I'm I'm tired, I'm old, and I

1175
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:20,280
Speaker 1: need help. Um. In the beginning, I did everything. Um It.

1176
01:30:20,280 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 1: It's a be it. If you want to run a

1177
01:30:22,280 --> 01:30:25,439
Speaker 1: good bed breakfast or a good establishment of any kind

1178
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:30,200
Speaker 1: that deals, you know, with people. Um, you need to

1179
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:35,000
Speaker 1: be obsessed with your immediate environment. I am a small,

1180
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:40,000
Speaker 1: detailed guy. I don't, as I said before, I don't

1181
01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 1: see the big picture. Um. People say, well, you know,

1182
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 1: how do you go from being a producer to being

1183
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 1: an innkeeper? Um? And really it's it's taking a a

1184
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:59,120
Speaker 1: collection of small pieces of things, bringing them all together,

1185
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:04,280
Speaker 1: make them work together. And then presenting it two people

1186
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:09,519
Speaker 1: for their enjoyment, and UM, you know that's what I

1187
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 1: do here. I'm uh great attention to detail. Um we

1188
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:22,519
Speaker 1: we kind of pioneered the concept of a wired bed

1189
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:26,640
Speaker 1: and breakfast. UM. Now, everybody has a lot of conveniences,

1190
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:30,559
Speaker 1: but in two thousand one, there wasn't There probably wasn't

1191
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:36,120
Speaker 1: a bet breakfast in certainly in the county. UM that

1192
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:42,679
Speaker 1: offered DVD players in the room, big screen TVs, full

1193
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:49,479
Speaker 1: cable WiFi, you know, um Bose wave radios which were

1194
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:54,479
Speaker 1: cutting edge twenty years ago. Uh, and cook to order

1195
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:58,080
Speaker 1: breakfasts really full cook to order breakfast. I love making

1196
01:31:58,080 --> 01:32:03,760
Speaker 1: breakfast and and it's a big part of our reputation.

1197
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 1: People talk about it. People come here for the first

1198
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:09,519
Speaker 1: time and say, boy, I can't wait to have the

1199
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 1: tomlet because that's my specialty, the tomlet. It's fun. It's

1200
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 1: been great. So you've yourself cooked the breakfast absolutely every

1201
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:24,040
Speaker 1: day for twenty years. Okay, but that you know, when

1202
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:27,799
Speaker 1: you own it in you're working seven days a week.

1203
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:32,600
Speaker 1: That's right. Except you know, until this year, we have

1204
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:37,439
Speaker 1: a slow season this year because of the virus. We

1205
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 1: had the biggest August September, October and November that we've

1206
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 1: ever had. I don't you know. People people get cabin fever,

1207
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:49,280
Speaker 1: they have to get away. But normally it's it's very

1208
01:32:49,320 --> 01:32:53,600
Speaker 1: slow from January to May. So we travel, you know,

1209
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:56,400
Speaker 1: we get we come to l A see you know,

1210
01:32:56,439 --> 01:32:59,120
Speaker 1: we read a house on the Venice Canal, have a

1211
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:07,080
Speaker 1: great time my son, and we get some time off. Um. Otherwise,

1212
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,760
Speaker 1: it's it's fun. It's great to meet people. You know.

1213
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 1: When I was producing, I would hide away in the

1214
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:19,000
Speaker 1: control room and I didn't want to see people. People

1215
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:23,960
Speaker 1: wanted to give me tapes back then, and I said, no,

1216
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 1: I really don't want to meet this guy because he's

1217
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:34,280
Speaker 1: just gonna want something from me. Yeah, and he was.

1218
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:39,960
Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't particularly anxious to see anybody. When

1219
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:43,360
Speaker 1: I got here. I had to learn, and I did

1220
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: learn quickly how to be more of a people person.

1221
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 1: And I would see somebody drive up who was going

1222
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,800
Speaker 1: to check in, and I said, oh, she's I gotta

1223
01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 1: deal with these people now, and they'd come in. We'd

1224
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:02,880
Speaker 1: start to talk h and they'd have a story. Everyone

1225
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:08,200
Speaker 1: has a story, and it's interesting, it's really interesting. I

1226
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:12,439
Speaker 1: learned to listen to other people at least for a

1227
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 1: few minutes, you know, after fifty five years, and I

1228
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: really have enjoyed this. We've we've met a lot of

1229
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 1: interesting people here, really interesting people. And we've had a

1230
01:34:26,280 --> 01:34:31,360
Speaker 1: few Yeah, before he was nuts, we had Juliani here,

1231
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:36,760
Speaker 1: We've had we've had some really some some good musicians here.

1232
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:42,599
Speaker 1: We had Densmore from the Doors. We've had Bonnie Ray,

1233
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:51,320
Speaker 1: we had God, We've had actors and authors, musicians. It's

1234
01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:55,200
Speaker 1: been great, it's really been great. We're very low key,

1235
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:59,120
Speaker 1: we're very under the radar. We do not advertise. It's

1236
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 1: all word of mouth, and we've we've gotten awards. Um,

1237
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 1: I'm ready to I'm ready to have a dog now. Okay,

1238
01:35:09,080 --> 01:35:12,439
Speaker 1: So how do people find out about it? Originally word

1239
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:14,760
Speaker 1: of mouth. That took us three or four years to

1240
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:19,599
Speaker 1: build up a big enough clientele so that we actually

1241
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:22,559
Speaker 1: made a profit. And in it's heyday for the next

1242
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:26,160
Speaker 1: ensuing fifteen seventeen years, was it a real business? Could

1243
01:35:26,160 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 1: you make real money? Yeah, we still make a profit.

1244
01:35:29,280 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 1: It's not a lot, but it pretty much pays for

1245
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:36,639
Speaker 1: our lives. Why A B and B To begin with, Well,

1246
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:43,679
Speaker 1: we had stayed at B and B's and I always thought,

1247
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:47,200
Speaker 1: why why is a B and B set up so

1248
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:50,840
Speaker 1: that if your room has a radio in it, you

1249
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:54,080
Speaker 1: feel fortunate? I mean, why does it have to be

1250
01:35:54,479 --> 01:35:57,559
Speaker 1: part of the B and B experience to have nothing?

1251
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:03,120
Speaker 1: You know? The deal is that the B and B

1252
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 1: came about because people would inherit huge houses from their

1253
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 1: parents and they couldn't afford to pay the taxes, so

1254
01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:18,960
Speaker 1: they started taking in borders and they didn't have a

1255
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:22,360
Speaker 1: lot of money. You know, they put a china wash

1256
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:25,839
Speaker 1: basin in the room, and you know, some nice drapes,

1257
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:32,320
Speaker 1: and they throw fabric over everything in the house, fabric everywhere,

1258
01:36:33,360 --> 01:36:39,640
Speaker 1: and so people didn't really establish B and b's. They

1259
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:43,559
Speaker 1: didn't have the money to establish b and bs. We did,

1260
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:48,760
Speaker 1: so I thought, well, it's it's about time that that

1261
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:53,240
Speaker 1: somebody offered people a chance to either commune with nature,

1262
01:36:53,520 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 1: sit by the stream, or stay in bed and you know,

1263
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:05,240
Speaker 1: watch movies and check their email. Um. So, so I

1264
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:10,360
Speaker 1: think we were the first luxury bed and breakfast anywhere. Okay,

1265
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:13,080
Speaker 1: so you're it's eleven months till you leave because you're

1266
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:16,479
Speaker 1: training the new owners. No, the new owners are you know,

1267
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:21,240
Speaker 1: I can't talk about them right now. Um, they're from

1268
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 1: l A. They there, they were guests here. They loved it,

1269
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 1: and you know, they asked for right at first refusal

1270
01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:38,840
Speaker 1: and eventually they they wanted to move. Uh. They were

1271
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:42,080
Speaker 1: in there in the kind of position that we were in.

1272
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:49,120
Speaker 1: Although they're doing well, Uh, there's there's there's not the

1273
01:37:49,200 --> 01:37:56,400
Speaker 1: same uh situation. Uh. They're not saying, well, this is over,

1274
01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:59,360
Speaker 1: I need to do something else. They're saying, I want

1275
01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 1: to do something else. So I'm gonna be kind of

1276
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:07,120
Speaker 1: consulting and teaching uh them how to run the place.

1277
01:38:08,160 --> 01:38:12,840
Speaker 1: We are moving literally a mile away. We're moving down

1278
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:15,799
Speaker 1: the street. It's it's a gorgeous street. It's in the country.

1279
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:20,840
Speaker 1: We found a wonderful house and we had to buy

1280
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:25,200
Speaker 1: it a month ago because there's a huge land rush

1281
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:28,559
Speaker 1: on here. You know, people from the city are moving

1282
01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:33,439
Speaker 1: up and we couldn't have we had to buy it

1283
01:38:33,479 --> 01:38:36,080
Speaker 1: then because we would have lost it. So we have

1284
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:38,559
Speaker 1: to own it, pay taxes and mortgage on it for

1285
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:41,280
Speaker 1: a year. But it gives us a chance to work

1286
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 1: on it. And I am more than ready to retire.

1287
01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:50,920
Speaker 1: All my friends retired ten years ago. Okay, just because

1288
01:38:50,960 --> 01:38:56,559
Speaker 1: you went back to the buship Berkshire's East coast, West coast. Well,

1289
01:38:57,320 --> 01:39:02,360
Speaker 1: I loved l A. I didn't know anything about it. Um.

1290
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:04,160
Speaker 1: You know, it was during in color. We had a

1291
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:06,599
Speaker 1: day off and I took a walk. I walked up

1292
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:10,960
Speaker 1: from the Sunset Marquis to Sunset Boulevard and it was

1293
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:16,080
Speaker 1: very quiet, beautiful, calm, blue sky. I was walking along

1294
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:18,519
Speaker 1: the sidewalk, and all of a sudden it dawned on me.

1295
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 1: I said, schmuck, you could live here. You could actually

1296
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:27,439
Speaker 1: live here. And I went back and I said, I

1297
01:39:27,960 --> 01:39:30,280
Speaker 1: told my boss. He said, you know, I think I

1298
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:33,840
Speaker 1: could make much I could make better records in l A.

1299
01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:36,400
Speaker 1: I'd be much happier and more productive. He said, you

1300
01:39:36,439 --> 01:39:40,240
Speaker 1: want to move to l A. We'll move you. And

1301
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:44,880
Speaker 1: so you know, I uh, we we went to l A.

1302
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:48,160
Speaker 1: I loved it. I loved I still love it twenty

1303
01:39:48,240 --> 01:39:52,719
Speaker 1: years worth. Um, we were there for twenty three years.

1304
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:59,839
Speaker 1: We lived just between Mulholland and Ventura in Laurel Canyon

1305
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:05,719
Speaker 1: and it was heaven. But um, it may sound cruel,

1306
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:09,920
Speaker 1: but one thing I think is that if you don't

1307
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:15,519
Speaker 1: have to be in l A, probably should be. Um.

1308
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:19,640
Speaker 1: It's so hard to get around now, but you know,

1309
01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:23,200
Speaker 1: you have to plan strategically when you're gonna go where

1310
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:26,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna go or else, it takes you two hours

1311
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:31,559
Speaker 1: to get there. Um, and everybody has ways, you know.

1312
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:35,040
Speaker 1: A friend of mine said, when I first saw ways

1313
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:38,040
Speaker 1: and he demonstrated it from me years ago, I said,

1314
01:40:38,120 --> 01:40:43,200
Speaker 1: that is fantastic, What an amazing development this is. He said, well,

1315
01:40:43,439 --> 01:40:46,760
Speaker 1: you know it's good. It'll take you. It'll take you

1316
01:40:46,840 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 1: around a circuitous route and put you on an unfamiliar

1317
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:56,360
Speaker 1: street and suddenly you'll realize you're not alone, you know.

1318
01:40:56,640 --> 01:41:00,040
Speaker 1: But um, we go back every year. We have of

1319
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:03,280
Speaker 1: really good friends there, and I love it. It's a

1320
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:08,639
Speaker 1: fabulous city. California's a fabulous state. I love. I love

1321
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:15,280
Speaker 1: Northern California. Um, but you know, we're we're Easterners. Are

1322
01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:20,520
Speaker 1: parents were here, they were all alive then, and um,

1323
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:23,120
Speaker 1: the kids are here. I love New York City. Also,

1324
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:27,599
Speaker 1: we're equidistance between New York and Boston, or from New

1325
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:33,360
Speaker 1: York and Boston. So um and Tanglewood is right down

1326
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:38,040
Speaker 1: the street, one of the great music venues of the world. Uh,

1327
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:40,599
Speaker 1: we can walk there in twelve minutes. We spent Sunday

1328
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 1: afternoons on the lawn listening to the to the Boston Symphony.

1329
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:47,760
Speaker 1: It's Heaven, you know, and and and this is a

1330
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:50,479
Speaker 1: blue state. Remember we live in the bluest part of

1331
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:54,960
Speaker 1: the bluest state in the country. I love that. That's

1332
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:56,920
Speaker 1: a whole another discussion. But before I let you go,

1333
01:41:58,120 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 1: what's your favorite record that you may I would say

1334
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:08,200
Speaker 1: Heaven Tonight pretty much right off the bat, and some reasons.

1335
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 1: The production is great, the songs are great. Um, you

1336
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:17,960
Speaker 1: know you there are some. I mean, Heaven Tonight itself

1337
01:42:18,160 --> 01:42:22,479
Speaker 1: is uh, the song it's uh about nine minutes. I

1338
01:42:22,479 --> 01:42:25,960
Speaker 1: don't know. I just loved what I did. I like

1339
01:42:26,200 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 1: I I know what my contributions were. I think they

1340
01:42:30,240 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: were good. I think that the record was mixed well.

1341
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:40,720
Speaker 1: I think it's it's just when I listened to I

1342
01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:44,760
Speaker 1: don't listen to my stuff, but but on the on

1343
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:49,160
Speaker 1: the rare occasion that I do, um or I hear

1344
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:51,559
Speaker 1: something from an album on the radio, and then I

1345
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:53,280
Speaker 1: come back here and I go to the I go

1346
01:42:53,320 --> 01:42:58,840
Speaker 1: to YouTube, and I listened on my computer speakers here. Um,

1347
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm impressed, you know, I'm impressed. I say, you know you,

1348
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:07,080
Speaker 1: you did a good job there, and I think it's okay.

1349
01:43:07,360 --> 01:43:10,280
Speaker 1: There are many albums that I listened to her, I say,

1350
01:43:11,160 --> 01:43:14,680
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have done that. This should be louder. There

1351
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:18,720
Speaker 1: are plenty of spots in uh, in the three Cheap

1352
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:21,920
Speaker 1: Trick albums that I did, where I think Bunny should

1353
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:24,720
Speaker 1: be louder. I think the drums should have been a

1354
01:43:24,760 --> 01:43:29,599
Speaker 1: little louder because because of what, because of his brilliant

1355
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 1: playing and the kinds of fields that he did. But anyway,

1356
01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:35,439
Speaker 1: that's it. That's that's the one I like the best,

1357
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:38,559
Speaker 1: I think. Okay, Tom, thanks so much for taking time

1358
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:42,760
Speaker 1: out of your literally busy day. Um sort of uh

1359
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:45,680
Speaker 1: disappointed that I'll never get to have your breakfast you meant,

1360
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:47,759
Speaker 1: and I'm not really a breakfast guy, but you sold

1361
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:51,439
Speaker 1: it pretty well. Oh it's it's delicious, and you know,

1362
01:43:51,640 --> 01:43:57,280
Speaker 1: look you've got You've got an invitation anytime on us.

1363
01:43:58,080 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: You know. It's uh, well, thank you. I don't know

1364
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:01,920
Speaker 1: if we'll be if I'll be leaving l A in

1365
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:06,360
Speaker 1: covid Era you right, but it'll be over in six months.

1366
01:44:06,400 --> 01:44:10,640
Speaker 1: We hope it appears that way. And um, you know

1367
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:13,680
Speaker 1: you could be our guest. Well, I greatly appreciate that.

1368
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:16,200
Speaker 1: Hopefully I can do it anyway, Thanks so much for

1369
01:44:16,240 --> 01:44:19,559
Speaker 1: doing this a lot of fun. Thank you, Bob. Until

1370
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:21,439
Speaker 1: next time, Mrs Bob left Sex