WEBVTT - Growth Curve: How Paramount Television Studios is Handling the Shutdown 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.039 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.880 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:19.040 Cynthia Littleton, business editor for Variety Today. My guest is 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:23.919 Nicole Clemens, President of Paramount Television Studios. Nicole has expanded 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:27.040 Paramounts Television activity since she took the reins of the 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.720 division in September two thousand eighteen. The company was gearing 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.680 up for four prominent series launches right as the pandemic 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:39.120 shutdowns hit in March. Nicole discusses the triage that went 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.800 into getting the series launches squared away and the painful 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.159 process of shutting down series and pilots that were in 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.600 production or about to shoot. She also talks about the 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.599 juggling act of managing a growing portfolio of series at 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:57.400 a time when dealmaking varies so widely by platform, and 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.320 Nicole reflects on her previous experience as as an executive 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.960 at f X, a producer for anonymous content, and an 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.720 agent at I c M, and how they have all 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:12.000 coalesced into helping her in her current role at Paramount Television. 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:17.479 Nicole Clemmens, President of Paramount Television Studios, thank you so 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.640 much for joining us here over Zoom. Thank you for 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.120 having me. It's great to be here. We appreciate you 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.320 taking some some time out. Obviously everybody's working from home, 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.240 but that certainly doesn't mean that you're not busy. And 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.160 you know, as just as as time and circumstance would 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.640 have it, just as the pandemic shutdown started to hit 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.440 in March, you were right in the you know, right, 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:41.880 you were right in the zone of about to launch 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.319 for you know, really significant new projects for your company, UM. 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:48.600 And we'll talk about each of those in a little 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.200 more detail, because you are working with an really interesting 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.960 microcosm of you know, of the of all the diversity 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.880 of networks and platforms that is in the industry. But UM, 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.400 tell me kind of just gener really, how and how 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.960 have you and your team adapted to the work from 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:09.160 home mandate doing so much remotely. What's it been like. Well, 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.320 the first couple of weeks we're just triage to dealing 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.720 with UM putting shows on hiatus, and that was just 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.720 it was, you know, sort of constant nonstuff. And then 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:25.239 now we've used into development and it's cranking. I can't 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.400 believe how busy we are I mean, I think writers 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.600 are home and they're focused, and they're turning around material 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:33.400 really quickly, and people are selling. We've been zoom pitching 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.920 to networks. We sold a show. You know, it's it's 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.320 I wouldn't say it's business as usual because in between that, 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.680 I'm washing about a thousand dishes. And I don't know, 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:47.760 how have you had any situations of you know, um 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.880 content launches that were tied to other events. Where have 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:55.120 there been any disruptions get disruptions in the rollout plans 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.440 of your series? Well, we had Home Before Dark and 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.680 Defending Jacob both on Apple, all that, all of our 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:07.400 in person press premiers, everything, you know, Paradise Lost also affected. 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.040 The good news is is that you know, everybody rallied 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.520 and pivoted, and I feel like it ultimately. I mean, 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.200 you know, yes, we didn't get to have the actual 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.440 physical party to celebrate, but all of the cast, I 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:25.160 mean across the industry, everybody has really like jumped into 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.840 to adjust to this new normal, and I feel like 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:33.040 the show's both gotten great pushes. I mean, Defending Jacob 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.640 launches on Friday, so we'll see. But I feel good 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:39.840 about everything I'm seeing so far. Mm hmmmm. Um. And 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.400 of course you have, you know, more than a dozen 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.960 other other shows on your roster, so you must have 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.440 had things that were in production that had to shut 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:52.840 down quickly and unexpectedly. Yes, yeah, we had. Let's see, 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:56.240 we had three shows that we got put that were 0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:00.600 put on hiatus, that were in the middle of shooting. Um, 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.280 and we have delayed production. We had a pilot that 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.520 was literally we had just been at the table read 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.040 in New Orleans. We're flying home and then that Monday 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.200 we shut down. Um, so that went on. We had 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.160 a pilot at Quimby, or not a pilot, but a 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.320 series at Quimby Varsity Blues that was about to start 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.760 shooting in the next couple of days and that shut down. Um, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.960 we had it was a little farther out, but we 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.039 had a pilot for USA that was shooting that now 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.280 is delayed. We you know, we should have been shooting Jack, 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:33.360 Ryan and June. So yeah, right, a lot of stuff. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:35.960 What is the hardest part from a business from a 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.080 financial standpoint, What is the hardest part about a quick 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:44.320 unexpected shutdown? Is it just the cost of you know, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.800 putting everything in storage and having people that are on 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.359 the payroll expecting to get paid all of a sudden 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.839 in limbo. What from a from a like a production 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:57.520 management standpoint, what do you find as the hardest Well, look, 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.840 I would say my production team did the unbelievable job. 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:05.880 But you know it's the it's the immediate shutdown costs. UM. 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.880 It's also you have to factor in UM restarting, right, 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.400 and we also don't know how long this is going 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:17.480 to be, so it's adjusting for every single deal across 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.080 various categories and what that looks like. And I mean 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:21.919 it was. It was a phenomenal. I mean, we have 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:25.000 shut down shows before, but we'd never shut down every 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:30.440 show one week. It was an amazing UM, it was 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.240 an amazing drill and to see all of our teams 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.480 and it brought us really close, but like literally figuring 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:38.680 it out as we went along, because it affects business affairs, 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:40.800 It affects physical production as you're right, affects like do 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.000 you fold and hold a stage? Do you are? We? 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.000 You know? And now we are we're all down and 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.280 we're now sitting and waiting and thinking like we don't 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.840 know when we're gonna come up, where we're gonna come 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.080 up well, we need to make a location change. You know, 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:59.840 various deals across shows for actors will be affected in schedule. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.560 I gotta believe and schedules, and look, the thing is 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.240 is that unlike a shutdown, when the whole world isn't 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:09.960 shut down, it's not that someone's taking another job in 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:14.120 the meantime, right. You hope is that your band wants 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.000 to get back together the second we can get up, 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:19.200 and our intention is to and our partners have signaled 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.400 the same that everybody as soon as we can wants 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.080 to get going and get back you know, get back 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.919 on on the on the on the schedule. So you know, 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.000 it's there's a weird sort of solace knowing that every 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.840 single person is in the same boat. Nicole, you've been 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.839 You've been at Paramount heading Paramount Television Studios since September 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.160 of two thousand and eighteen. Tell me about the kind 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.279 of the scope of the team that you've put together. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.520 You know, when I got there, um, they certainly there 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:48.480 were like a lot of great shows going, but it 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.680 was a much smaller division. And I think my my 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:56.640 approach and my intent was to scale, to diversify the 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:01.200 business model. Um, and to you know, look for opportunities 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.360 for for margin and so I um, and in expanding 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.440 the team, UM, you know, I hired a number two 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.440 there had not been a number two in development, um, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.040 Jenna Santoiani, who was fantastic. And then we hired Cheryl 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.440 Bosnak to run a current department which had not existed 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:20.720 that date because we had plenty of shows that needed 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:25.520 to be taken care of on the ongoing side, and um, 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.280 you know, and we've I think it's been in the 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.400 last a lot since well I guess since I've started, 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.320 it's been about thirteen new hires across the exact ranks, 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.360 so it's it's been a pretty decent expansion. And then 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.840 on the show front, you know, we increase the pipeline, 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.800 which we count as show series ordered on air, ordered 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:49.200 or in production by about and then our development, which 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.000 are you know, which is most of it is scripted 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.760 series kinds of development situation more than doubled in the 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.560 last and so we've had like nine series orders and 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:03.360 seven series renewals. So it's been it's been really busy, 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.680 really productive. Let's talk about two of your drama series 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.800 that you have launching with Apple TV plus Home Before 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:13.200 Dark and Defending Jacob, can you talk about the appeal 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.200 for a studio such as yours working with a streamer 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.280 like Apple on series on series of this of the 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:24.920 genre and type, Well, I mean Apples. The deal structure 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:29.080 at Apple is a cost plus model, so um, that 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:33.480 is Look, it's it's fantastic in terms of working with 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.200 Apple at this point in time with them launching, they're 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.760 really putting a lot of attention into each shows. They're 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:40.760 not in a volume business. They're in a very sort 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:45.000 of specialized business. So it's you feel like every each 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.840 show is very curated and really important to them. Are 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.480 these in in in these deals with Apple? Are these 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.559 worldwide or are you able to take these all of that? 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.439 Every Apple deal is a worldwide rights deal and they launch, Um, 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.320 they launch day and date all over the world. So 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.439 just pretty exciting in terms of in terms of your 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.960 youth ship. But that's a big part of a part 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.000 of the draw in terms of the exposure. Um. You 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.320 know you mentioned um Paradise Lost, which is a show 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:20.880 that premiered for US on UH Spectrum Originals, and that's 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:26.160 show where Charter takes the first window and then Paramount 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.680 Network nine months later, will take the second window, and 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:32.160 in that case the studio holds some international and so 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.240 we'll sell the international on that. So completely right on 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.280 the other end of the spectrum, we have street lights. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:43.280 When the street lights go on. That launched on Quimby 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.240 with their launch and that that's been, um, that's been 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:51.359 really interesting, you know, in terms of Quimby being designed 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.040 for people on the go and then having you know, 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.679 but we uh, we know, we don't have the streamers 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.280 and Quimby included don't s are specific data, but the 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.720 feedback that we've had has been great on on our 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:08.160 shows so far. So I was curious if Quimby was 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.000 going to break that mold, but I kind of I 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:14.320 think I think that mold has probably been said uh huh. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.480 So in in a way it is interesting. I mean, 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:20.280 these are in all these situations in in kind of 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.520 a cost plus model, not for Paradise Lost respectrum originals, 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:25.520 but in a cost plus model, you kind of you know, 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:27.760 you know what your you know what your upside is 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.080 going in so you manage that within and you know, 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.839 for for you, I mean for you guys, it seems 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.040 like you have you know, you have a fair amount 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.760 of activity in that range. You know, you add things up, 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:43.240 big big pieces of business like Jack Ryan and you know, 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.920 other profile shows. You add that up and it becomes 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.360 it becomes a nice portfolio. It's good. We've tried to 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.520 I mean streaming. I had said to somebody, were like 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.840 the bonds of the portfolio. There's really no risk, but 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.320 it's capped upside, right, So you definitely want UM and 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:04.200 they're fantastic and there, and each individual platform has its 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:09.240 own you know, UM sensibilities and ways of dealing. But 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:11.920 I think that the you know the idea of being 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.320 able to have some shows with some major upsites so 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.880 you can hit a home run is you know, obviously 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.240 something we'd love to achieve. And so you know, we 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:25.319 we haven't been our our bread and butter is not 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.240 in broadcast television UM, which isn't to say that we 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.440 don't do some, but our sister company, CBS Studios does 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.040 that to a much larger degree. But this year we 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.600 have a pilot at Fox UM that is you know, 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:43.360 Melissa Leo starring in and uh Philip Noise is directing, 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:47.560 and it's fantastic. It's like house, right, It's it's just 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.319 one of those ones. That you think like this one 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.040 could go all the way. So you know, it's totally different. 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.640 That's a deficit. You're deficiting the pilot and you're rolling 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.440 the dice. And you know doing that with Fox with 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.640 fe C in particular, is you know, they're now studio 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.319 lists in terms of your not sitting there like you 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:11.320 would be at or ABC as an outside studio competing 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.120 against all of these other pod deals or studios that 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.160 have an agenda to fill the pipeline. So you really 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.440 like trying to win, you know, get the winning lottery 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.439 ticket for a half of a slot. Right, So it's 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.920 a much better risk doing a pilot for us with 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:33.520 FBC in this scenario, right, Yeah, No, I mean it's 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.120 and it seems like, um it is a true like 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.840 people say, it's a true portfolio approach. You have your bonds, 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:42.640 you have a couple of you know, you have a 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:46.240 couple of a couple of bets, and um, I would 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.360 imagine also from us, you know, from a standpoint of 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.240 the kind of creative people that you can attract. You know, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:54.720 people don't always want to be in one lane. You 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:56.640 want to have want to have a little more a 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.199 little more diversity there and and it is interest thing 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.040 at this time, you know, whether it's Quimby or if 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.800 you see there are a lot of new or new 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.520 ish entities coming in with different how you've been loving 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.720 HBO Max for example, because they are doing really high 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.360 budget shows and they're giving huge license fees, but you're 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:22.079 still holding international, so you're sort of getting in that case, 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.040 the best of both worlds in terms of um very low, 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.840 very very low deficit and then huge potential for abside. 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.240 So they came on the scene right as it sort 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.560 of looked as if everything was gonna shut down, and 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.959 then they showed up. So it's, you know it ebbs 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:41.240 and flows, so you know, look, well who knows? Who 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.800 knows what the landscape is gonna look like? Right right now? 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.280 It is hard. What was it like was it? Did 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.800 you have to adjust it all to produce for Quimby 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.880 on theirs, you know, their specs and standards of ten 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.160 minutes and the whole thing adding up to what there 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.000 was the development process which the writers adapted to really 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.600 easily informed sort of following function into of knowing that 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.240 you needed to have those ten minute kind of cliffhanger 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.000 uh spots and the shows that we have done with 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.040 them have lent themselves really well to that storytelling. Um, 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.280 we did actually have to adapt our shooting style for 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.120 the Quimby you know, for the vertical and horizontal of 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.840 the phone, So our filmmakers actually had put tape on 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.120 the monitors so that they in the frame. But and 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.320 and look, we were making our first Quimby shows as 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.760 Quimby's making their first shows, so we were learning their 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.880 you know, their style together and it was it was 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:35.760 a great experience. We we're you know, we've got street 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:37.840 Lights now out where we're doing Varsity Blues and we 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.240 have a couple other things behind that we love. Working 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.760 with them been great. We hope that everything you know, 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:45.840 I hope it works really well, would be greatful. Do 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.840 you think do you see those shows? Do you see 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.320 a completed Quimby season as a potential pilot for something that, 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.440 you know, something that could go longer term, something in 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.800 a more traditional format. Is that because I've heard that 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.360 that's somewhat of the appeal, but good it could it's 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.240 not so much I have It's not that it couldn't 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.960 happen that way. I think, for instance, street Lights is 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.240 in a complete story and when it comes together that 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:12.520 could be sold as a TV movie for example. Right, Um, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:17.400 there are some ongoing series that um, you know that 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:18.960 we'll have to see because we haven't done you know, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.800 we haven't actually produced them yet. UM, that you might 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.360 be able to cut together depending on how many seasons 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.840 they go and selling that format. So UM, I haven't 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.960 looked at it so much as a pilot program for 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.600 um the larger scale places as much as an opportunity 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.640 to have something that you can cut together and see. Look, 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.400 if if this model works like the for you in 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.160 in a few years, you get it back and its 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:48.120 entirety to assemble and then a period of time after 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.080 that you get it back and you can cut it up. 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.920 So if that's a form that really takes off, you 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:56.800 can re license it in that form. I see. Yeah, 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:01.120 I mean the business model was strong, and of that 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.160 that could all be on the come. The long tail 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.360 can be an unknown and if there's Grady there, then fantastic. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.960 But the upfront model made it worth doing. And it's 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.160 cost plus essentially. Yeah, it's whether that pick. Yeah, he's exactly, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.480 it's cost less. So so they're very smart. I think 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.880 about how they went out went out about it. It's 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:22.760 interesting and now with Paradise Loss that's also um Charter, 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.360 the you know, the second largest cable operator in the 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.840 in the country next to Comcast, started a couple of 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.920 years ago. They really started putting into their distribution deals, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.600 you know, a massive distribution packed for cable channels with 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.840 Viacom lead to there was kind of a line and 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.240 a press release. Oh on the sides of you know, 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.720 the companies have agreed to develop a project, you know, 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.400 original content projects together. When I first started to see that, 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.920 I thought, what, you know, I thought that was just, 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.080 you know, kind of a throwaway thing. But obviously it 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:58.440 has born fruit with with Paramount and by Common and others. Um, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.520 how did you tell me do you did you work 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.000 out the agreement to have it premiere on the Spectrum 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:08.040 platform and then go to Paramount the Paramount channel. Was 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.199 that was that anticipated as part of the dealer? Was 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.639 that something you worked out? Now? That was that was 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.800 actually done day one? So it wasn't It wasn't a 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.120 process of doing it with Spectrum and then figuring out 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.240 where to go. It was we have a couple of 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.879 projects with Spectrum and b ET and we have a 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.080 couple of projects right now with that are just spectrum 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:29.679 and I don't know if they'll have a second window, 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:34.159 but uh, it's it's a run the gamut. Mm hm 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:39.280 goa um. Was that being that the spectrum is sort 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:41.280 of regional and not so new, Was that it all 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.600 hard to attract talent or the fact that you would 0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:48.040 be transitioning to do a more established linear network and 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:51.800 undoubtedly streaming platforms. I think what we were able to 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.600 explain that, which I really believe is true, is that 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.919 it was great because you get a you get a 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:01.719 bite at a release where you're not behold into rising 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.880 or falling on ratings. Right, it's all critical and it's 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.680 not such a huge market that it's then taking a 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.320 huge bite out of your your you know, you're you're 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.480 bigger opportunities. So it was sort of like a premier 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.959 and a preview and an opportunity to shine, build some 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.720 buzz and then you can have your your next run. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.680 Plus there is also the opportunity for international in terms 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.200 of the business model and the and the back end upside. 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.840 So you know, people were great and look it's Katherine 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:33.199 Pope who leads the charge there. Who oh an NBC 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:38.240 vetter in a long time NBC in Churnon, Yeah, exactly. 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.800 I think the regional aspect of it really ends up 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:46.680 affecting the storytelling more than anything, because that those stories 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:48.360 that Charter is going to get in on are going 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.960 to beat stories that are appealing to their their demographics. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.680 That makes sense. It is just like from what we've 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.760 discussed almost you know, four different kind of models within 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.600 four different shows. Do you enjoy a part of the job. Yeah, 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.639 I mean I love I This is the job that 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.240 lets me take all of my jobs and roll it 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.439 all together, from having been an agent to being fired 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.280 to be increaser, it's all together. What's interesting is when 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.480 you have a project and you're lucky enough to have 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:20.520 several bidders, it's not apples to apples, it's complete apple stranges, 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.720 right right. None of the deal you have to you know, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:25.159 you have to make to sit and you have to 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.720 make decisions that are multi factoral. You can't necessarily just 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.840 line them all up and the one appear wins. You know, 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.720 it's it's a super I find it really really interesting 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.359 and um, you know, I'm glad that there are a 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.640 lot of buyers and we have stuff on thirteen different platforms, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.080 and I'd be thrilled for more to come into the picture. 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.639 That sounds like HBO Max is going to join the mix. 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:53.040 Oh we've got yeah, We've got a lot on HBO Max. 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:57.119 Actually we were love Sarah Aubrey and Kevin and so 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.359 we've got Greece coming out. Um. We just hired our 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:02.800 writer that's on the fast track there, which is a 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.160 series order. We have Station eleven, which we've already had 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:07.760 the first two episodes in the can and we had 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.040 a hiatus actually already in place because we're going to 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.200 pick up shooting in the summer. So we'll see now 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.480 if if COVID affects it at all. That's Hero Marai 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:20.520 directing Patrick Somerville's adaptation of Emily St. John Mandel's novel, 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:24.120 which is serially, I mean, how could we know it's 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.960 a post pandemic world. It's kind of crazy. The first 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:29.959 cut came in during the first week of this and 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.400 I was just it was just like so surreal. Nicole. 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.120 You have really have had a really a varied career 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.879 from being you know, a creative executive ed f X 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.440 to an agent that I see mum earlier and recently 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.280 manager and producer for Anonymous Content, which is definitely a 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:50.560 purveyor of fine content. They truly do. They were very 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.320 much ahead of the curve in assembling these very high 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:58.520 end uh a lot of unlimited series projects. Um, what 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.679 would you say earlier in the start of your career? 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.119 What what were some of the either key experiences or 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:07.840 jobs or shows that you worked on that kind of 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.560 allowed you to to climb the ladder. What would you 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.400 say was really formative experiences for you as an executive 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:20.960 or as an industry professional? Wow? Um, well, in this incarnation, 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:25.040 I would say at FX, just being a part of 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.560 that company, which obviously so much of that is attributed 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.040 to John Managraph and the culture that he creates. And 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:35.280 first pilot I ever worked on, the executive for that 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:38.640 show was John mind Graph, who was the VP at NBC. 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:43.080 And so go flash forward all these years and then 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:47.640 you know we're working together. So um, I think, uh, 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.480 you know, obviously agenting for your sixteen years, it's like 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.560 in your blood, you're never not an agent. But the 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:58.440 the experience of really sitting at like Johnsney and watching 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.640 how he thought about television and the way he cultivated 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:06.560 relationships with artists and really pushed them. You know, you 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.480 never felt like you were ever dictating or writing a 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.520 show for somebody, and that a trap you can fall 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.639 into in development. And what what I think that we 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:19.680 were about there was finding really nailing what somebody's authentic 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:21.200 voice was, what it was they were trying to say, 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.720 and then pushing them further and supporting him in that. 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:27.040