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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 2: And this is Joe McCormick, and today we're bringing you

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Speaker 2: an episode from the Weird House Cinema vault. This was

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Speaker 2: actually our first Weird House Cinema episode ever. It was

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Speaker 2: on the movie Without Warning, a Graydon Clark classic about

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Speaker 2: an alien running around in the fields of Where's it.

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Speaker 2: I guess it's in rural California?

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Speaker 1: Maybe yep?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So this originally aired on October thirtieth, twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: It was our first ever Weird House Cinema episode when

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Speaker 2: we didn't know what Weird House Cinema would be yet.

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Speaker 2: I think we were still trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 2: So I wonder what kind of weird little appendages and

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Speaker 2: vestigial organs there will be to fined in this episode.

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Speaker 1: Let's dig right in and find out.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob and

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Speaker 1: this is Joe. Oh were we not saying our last

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Speaker 1: names here?

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Speaker 2: That's a change.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know, No, I guess we should say our

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Speaker 1: last names.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, you're Rob Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. That's it.

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Speaker 2: That sound okay, let's go with that. Okay, So it

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Speaker 2: looks like this is our pilot episode. We're recording this

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Speaker 2: here as a test. It may or may not see

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Speaker 2: the light of day, but if you're listening to it,

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Speaker 2: it obviously did.

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Speaker 1: Now, we originally explored the idea of this being a

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Speaker 1: standalone podcast series, but then we realize now the perfect

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Speaker 1: place to try and roll this out would be like

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Speaker 1: late night on a Friday, like at midnight, if they'd

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Speaker 1: let us do that. I don't think they can let

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Speaker 1: us do that, but at any rate, Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: kind of a little bonus episode. It is not core

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind content, but we are featuring

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Speaker 1: it in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind feed on Fridays.

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Speaker 1: I like to think of it as the asexual budding

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Speaker 1: offspring of our science podcast Stuff to Blow Your Mind,

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Speaker 1: where really, we've frequently over the years brought up various

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Speaker 1: weird movies, generally as a means of sort of illustrating

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Speaker 1: a particular scientific topic or making a particular scientific topic

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Speaker 1: maybe a little more engaging, at least to us. So

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Speaker 1: this is just more of the same, except we're putting

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Speaker 1: the cart in front of the horse here. We're putting

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Speaker 1: the movie weirdness ahead of any other concerns that would

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Speaker 1: otherwise be engaged.

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Speaker 2: That's right. We're putting the jack palance in front of

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Speaker 2: the horse here because for our inaugural episode here we

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Speaker 2: are going to be talking about, without warning, a film

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Speaker 2: from nineteen eighty that is so exquisite. I could not

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Speaker 2: have asked for a better opening episode. Robert, you suggested

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Speaker 2: this film, having not seen it yourself, I believe. But

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Speaker 2: when I laid eyes on the trailer, I knew it

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Speaker 2: was going to be love at first sight, and my

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Speaker 2: heart was true once I saw it. This film holds up.

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Speaker 2: This is b trash for the ages. All right, let's

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Speaker 2: go ahead and a taste for this film. Let's listen

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Speaker 2: to the trailer in its entirety.

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Speaker 4: The hunting season has begun, but the hunter isn't human, only.

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Speaker 5: The prey are. It came without warning. It's like nothing

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Speaker 5: on this earth, our friends.

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Speaker 1: I did.

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Speaker 4: Beyond any known terror, because one that leaves this planet,

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Speaker 4: no one may be left alive.

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Speaker 1: Good Time warned you.

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Speaker 5: When they start eating you, don't come to me for help.

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Speaker 5: He came out here a spot you want to hear

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Speaker 5: some about.

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Speaker 2: Eutrope is right now, you and me, we.

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Speaker 4: Are the prize, the hotter, the hunted house, not true,

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Speaker 4: the thing that praise on human fear and feeds on

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Speaker 4: human flesh from deepest space. It came, and now man

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Speaker 4: is the endangered species. It came without warning, and now

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Speaker 4: it's coming for you.

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Speaker 1: Wow. That was something. It's pretty wonderful for a number

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Speaker 1: of reasons we're going to discuss in this episode, but

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Speaker 1: for me personally, one of the things I liked about

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Speaker 1: it is that while on the Internet is a wonderful

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Speaker 1: means of discovering new weird films. You know, everything from

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Speaker 1: B movies and exploitation films to art films and even

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Speaker 1: blockbusters that didn't quite bust the block back in the day,

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But this is a film that

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Speaker 1: I discovered the old fashioned way on a video rental shelf.

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Speaker 1: I went to Atlanta's own video drome. I was perusing

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Speaker 1: the horror and science fiction and there it was.

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Speaker 2: A video drome is the holy temple of this show.

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Speaker 2: It's been a sight of pilgrimage for us for quite

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Speaker 2: some time. Yeah, and it's great that they're still operating

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Speaker 2: even during these are dark times by a wonderful sort

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Speaker 2: of exchange system that operates out of a table at

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Speaker 2: the front door. And so you can just walk right

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Speaker 2: up to him and say, give me something disgusting that

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Speaker 2: reminds you of The Uninvited by Graydon Clark, and you

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Speaker 2: may well get without warning.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because this is a directed by great on Clark

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Speaker 1: all of that film, and we'll touch based on him

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Speaker 1: in a bit. But before we get any further, Joe,

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Speaker 1: do you want to summarize this film for us? Give

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Speaker 1: us a quick breakdown of the plot.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, the short version is that, without warning, this

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Speaker 2: is a movie that came out in nineteen eighty and

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Speaker 2: it's Predator before Predator. When did the Schwarzenegger Predator come out,

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Speaker 2: like eighty seven, eighty eight something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is Predator before Predator, except instead of

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Speaker 2: a bug mouth gadget alien with like a laser cannon

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Speaker 2: and dreadlocks, this is a fifty style big head alien,

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Speaker 2: sort of a cross between the creepy clay monsters from

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Speaker 2: Fire in the Sky and then just full camp Martians

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Speaker 2: like the ones in Invasion of the saucer Men, big head,

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Speaker 2: a large alien compound eye is kind of a screeching

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Speaker 2: a mouth. Does it make a noise? I think maybe

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Speaker 2: at some point does the invasion of the Body Snasher screech?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes some sort of an animal noise at

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Speaker 1: some point.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And so instead of taking place in a

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Speaker 2: vague Central American war zone, this is set somewhere in

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Speaker 2: I think it's supposed to be the rural western US.

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Speaker 2: I would guess rural California. And instead of Arnold Schwarzenegger

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Speaker 2: and his team of commandos, you've got whiny hunters. You've

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Speaker 2: got boy scouts who just sing incessantly, you've got makeout

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Speaker 2: point tines, and you've got Jack Palance. And Jack Palance,

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Speaker 2: by the way, is a force of nature. In this movie,

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Speaker 2: he plays a hunter. I guess half the characters are

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Speaker 2: supposed to be hunters of some kind or another. We'll

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Speaker 2: get to that more when we talk about the themes

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Speaker 2: and message of the film later on. But Jack Palance

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Speaker 2: is some kind of hunter who likes to kill animals,

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Speaker 2: put their heads on the wall of his gas station,

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Speaker 2: put them in jars, put them in formaldehyde. And when

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Speaker 2: he talks in this film, he is human cocaine. Half

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Speaker 2: of his lines are delivered literally quivering.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a leathery intensity to this performance that,

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Speaker 1: to a certain extent, you would expect from Palance. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: he really brings it. There's not a sense that he

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Speaker 1: missed call and phoned it in.

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Speaker 2: But as for the basic plot, there's an alien who's here.

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Speaker 2: It's hunting humans. It does hunt humans, including some of

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Speaker 2: the actors that we're going to mention in just a minute.

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Speaker 2: As it hunts them, it collects them and puts them

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Speaker 2: in a water utility shed. I guess that is functioning

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Speaker 2: as this temporary like food storage locker. I think there's

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Speaker 2: the implication that the alien is going to eat the people.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's ever made entirely clear, but

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Speaker 2: I recall that being suggested.

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Speaker 1: And there's a lot of wonderful mystery about exactly what

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Speaker 1: the alien is doing and why, which really works but

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Speaker 1: yet also leads to you wondering is this for food?

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Speaker 1: It might be for food, or are they trophies, perhaps

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Speaker 1: their trophies, or is there something else in play here?

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Speaker 1: And we're just taking our own human practices and sort

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Speaker 1: of holding them up over the extraterrestrial pattern in front

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Speaker 1: of us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so this alien is hunting humans.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't use technology really at all that I can

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Speaker 2: think of. There. Like I said, there's no laser cannon,

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Speaker 2: there are no extending wrist blades, there are no magical

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Speaker 2: flying circular saw discs. Instead, it uses what I would

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Speaker 2: call a jellyfish shuriken. It throws these little biological creatures

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Speaker 2: that attach to people and then stab into the people

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Speaker 2: with their tentacles and make the people bleed and then

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Speaker 2: kill them. Is that about right?

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Speaker 1: That pretty much. I like to think of them as

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Speaker 1: fresh frisbees, but I think murder pancakes would also suffice.

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Speaker 2: Frisbee from the seafood market.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So basically, this tall, big headed alien, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, I want to stress this is a nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighties movie, a nineteen eighty film, which is key because

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Speaker 1: you certainly expect that kind of a big headed alien

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Speaker 1: in these older in decades pro prior, especially stuff like

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Speaker 1: outer limits and so forth. But this is eighty. There

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Speaker 1: is a Star Wars beach blanket that shows up in

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Speaker 1: the film, and so there's something about the weirdness of that.

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Speaker 1: This creature is not only from a different world, he's

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Speaker 1: from a different cinematic world, so he feels even more

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Speaker 1: the outsider, but unlike those other cinematic big headed aliens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's throwing these flesh frisbees around, and if one of

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Speaker 1: these flesh frisbees attaches to your flesh, you're probably doomed.

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Speaker 1: You have, like it seems like a few seconds in

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Speaker 1: the movies, time to whip out a bowie knife and

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Speaker 1: cut that sucker free. Otherwise you're done for.

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Speaker 2: Though nobody seems to have that insight except Jack Palance himself.

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Speaker 2: Everybody else who gets hit by one of the fresh frisbees. Wait,

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Speaker 2: are we going with fresh frisbees or flesh frisbees?

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Speaker 1: Either way, fresh flesh frisbees.

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Speaker 2: Okay, one of the jellyfish meat frisbees attaches to you.

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Speaker 2: Everybody else just goes oh and then goo comes out

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Speaker 2: of them and they fall over. But Jack Palance, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: of course he whips out his knife because I guess

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Speaker 2: he's got more grit than any of the other ones,

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Speaker 2: and he has the courage and the resolve to just

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Speaker 2: stack a right in there and get it off like

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Speaker 2: he's shucking an oyster.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there is very much. There's an oyster shucking

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Speaker 1: sense to these things. See, it's never explained if the

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Speaker 1: thing is the flesh frisbee, it kills you so fast

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Speaker 1: because it's like draining your essence or sucking your blood out,

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Speaker 1: or if it's like a toxin situation. But it seems

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Speaker 1: to work really well, and the movie does a good

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Speaker 1: job of conveying that sense of danger.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I got the sense of a toxin from

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Speaker 2: it because the flesh frisbee, the fresh flesh frisbee, is

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Speaker 2: also very greasy. You know, it's like got this ooze

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Speaker 2: that when Jack Palance stabs into it with his linoleum

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Speaker 2: knife or whatever, it produces this oleaginous extrusion that is

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Speaker 2: I don't know, it looks like it would not come

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Speaker 2: out with water alone. You would need you know, googne

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Speaker 2: or something to get rid of it. And we'll come

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Speaker 2: back to that in just a little bit when we

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Speaker 2: explore some monster science. But maybe first we should look

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Speaker 2: at a cast of characters and associated artisans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's start at the top. I with director

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Speaker 1: Graydon Clark not to be confused with tad artist Great Anus,

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Speaker 1: and I have personally made that confusion confusing these two.

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Speaker 1: But Graydon Clark is perhaps best known, I think for

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Speaker 1: directing Aimed Angel's Brigade back in nineteen seventy nine, but

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Speaker 1: also the MST three k riffed Final Justice with Joden

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Speaker 1: Baker back in nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that's the one with a dyspeptic Jodon Baker and

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Speaker 2: he's running around Malta, right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, cowboy. It has some wonderful There's this one

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Speaker 1: shot in that film where he has his hand on

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Speaker 1: his hip and they're shoot it like between his arm

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Speaker 1: and the side of his Torso it's one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite bizarre shooting choices I've ever seen in a film.

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Speaker 2: I also recall a joke about a felonious monk in it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But so, Graydon Clark directed another film that came

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Speaker 2: out in nineteen eighty seven, which that might be the

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Speaker 2: same year that Predator came out, or maybe Predator was

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Speaker 2: eighty nine, I don't know. In eighty seven, Graydon Clark

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Speaker 2: made the movie un in I keep pointing to call

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Speaker 2: it the Uninvited. I think there's no article. It's just Uninvited,

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Speaker 2: which is about a mutant cat that gets aboard a

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Speaker 2: yacht with klu Gooliger and George Kennedy and a bunch

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Speaker 2: of some more makeout point teams.

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Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, I haven't seen that one yet, but it's

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Speaker 1: definitely on my love for this October.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Robert, it is a top tier creature film you've

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Speaker 2: got to see uninvited, and in fact that should be

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Speaker 2: a later, later addition to the show because it is.

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Speaker 2: It is a creature film like none other. It is

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Speaker 2: really unparalleled genius. It Dwelleth at the top of the

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Speaker 2: creature film Zigarat.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, okay, so we've got Clark on board here.

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Speaker 1: Another key individual makeup artist Greg Cannum. I now I

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Speaker 1: should note that that sometimes Rick Baker's name is attached

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Speaker 1: to this film. Apparently he was involved in the film

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Speaker 1: early on and actually made the alien head and designed

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Speaker 1: some of the effects and then handed duties off to

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Speaker 1: fellow FX makeup with Greg Cannum and Canum ends up

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Speaker 1: completing everything. Canum is another superstar of special effects makeup.

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Speaker 1: He went on to work on everything from brom Stoker's

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Speaker 1: Dracula and Highlander two to most recently, I believe he

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Speaker 1: was involved in that Christian Bale, Dick Cheney makeup for

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Speaker 1: that movie Vice.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow wow, Okay, well I see the through line. Actually,

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Speaker 2: did he do the old man makeup for Connor MacLeod

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Speaker 2: and Highlander two? And did he do the old man

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Speaker 2: makeup for Gary Oldman in bram Stoker's Dracula and the

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Speaker 2: old man makeup for Christian Bale and Vice?

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Speaker 1: I would bet that that is the case.

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Speaker 2: Yes, three extraordinary works, each of each of their own genre,

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Speaker 2: as long as you consider that the stuff they put

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Speaker 2: on Christoph Lambert is supposed to be oily looking and funny.

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Speaker 1: Now, of course, the thing about effects in a film

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Speaker 1: like this is they can look amazing, but it also

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Speaker 1: comes down to how you shoot them and indeed how

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Speaker 1: you light them. Oh, and that leads to our next

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Speaker 1: future superstar that was involved in this picture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Dean Coundy. So, Dean Coundy is a legendary cinematographer

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Speaker 2: and director of photography. He's he's a member of the ASC.

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Speaker 2: If you just think about a movie that is effortlessly

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Speaker 2: visually absorbing, something that is constantly pleasing and interesting to

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Speaker 2: look at without really calling attention to itself as flashy photography,

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Speaker 2: and I think that there is a good chance that

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Speaker 2: you're watching a Dean Coundy movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I have to say with this film, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't start off feeling like Cundy's presence is there, because

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Speaker 1: early on in the film, everything is in just stark daylight.

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Speaker 1: You just you wake up late and arrive in this

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Speaker 1: movie around noon in lovel California, so everything has hungover

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Speaker 1: to yeah, a little bit hungover. Everything's just super bright.

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Speaker 1: It looks like it's probably hot and you should maybe

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Speaker 1: be in a library somewhere or you want to crawl

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Speaker 1: back into a trailer or something. So you know, that's

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Speaker 1: the first section of the film. But eventually the sun

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Speaker 1: goes down, and when the sun goes down in this movie,

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Speaker 1: Kundy's lighting comes up, and that's when everything begins to

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Speaker 1: take on an entirely new feel because that's when we

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Speaker 1: see more and more of the monster. But then we

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Speaker 1: also see more and more of these kind of and

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Speaker 1: really at times monstrous character actor faces that are also

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Speaker 1: lit up just so well. Some of the best scenes

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Speaker 1: in the film are just character actors well lit.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I would actually go

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Speaker 2: disagree just a little bit that I think there's some

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Speaker 2: really good photography and the film has a good look,

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Speaker 2: even in some of the daylight scenes. I definitely agree

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Speaker 2: that it becomes more interesting to look at once you

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Speaker 2: get to the nighttime. But there are a couple of

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Speaker 2: daylight scenes that remind me of scenes in Halloween. Of course,

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Speaker 2: Dean Kundy famously worked with John Carpenter on movies like

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Speaker 2: Halloween and the thing remember in Halloween how there will

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Speaker 2: be these scenes that are just in broad daylight, and

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Speaker 2: it'll be a creepy wide shot with Michael Myers standing

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Speaker 2: somewhere in the distance and not really moving or doing

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Speaker 2: anything all that menacing. He's just there in the mid

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Speaker 2: ground background. And those are I think some of the

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Speaker 2: most effective shots in Halloween. They really color how you

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Speaker 2: experience the film. There are shots like that in Without

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Speaker 2: Warning too. There's like a shot where a hunter is

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Speaker 2: looking around at a field just with kind of like

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Speaker 2: dead grass and overgrown weeds, and there is some figure

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Speaker 2: with a large head just kind of standing in the

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Speaker 2: distance behind the tall grass, not moving, and I thought

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Speaker 2: it was an incredibly effective shot for such a low

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Speaker 2: grade movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do admit that some of those daylight

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Speaker 1: scenes are creepy in that they convey that sense of

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Speaker 1: the terror that stalks in the daylight is perhaps even

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Speaker 1: more dangerous than that which stalks at night.

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Speaker 2: But I agree in general Dean Coundy, he's just got

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Speaker 2: the magic touch, and it's especially magic once night comes

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Speaker 2: on and he's messing around with lighting. There are scenes

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Speaker 2: that are filmed inside a house, a sort of a

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Speaker 2: hunting cabin where there is a sudden boo scare where

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Speaker 2: the alien pops out from the corner of a room

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Speaker 2: and I think points with his finger. Very again, very

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Speaker 2: invasion of the body snatcher's style, but it's a very

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Speaker 2: effective boo scare.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I have to throw in that the Shout

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Speaker 1: Factory Scream Factory edition of this movie that came out

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Speaker 1: on DVD and Blu Ray several years back has some

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Speaker 1: special features, and one of them is Kundy talking about

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Speaker 1: the film, and it's really insightful. He for instance, brings

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Speaker 1: up the fact that the monster costume looked really good

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Speaker 1: and you had this maybe temptation to want to show

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Speaker 1: a lot of it, but he held back. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you depend on a little bit more shadow and mystery,

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Speaker 1: So there are certain details on that monster head that

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Speaker 1: you just don't necessarily get in the final feature like

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Speaker 1: it has kind of compound eye is yes, and you

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Speaker 1: never complete. I don't think you ever get a sense

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Speaker 1: of that in the film, but ultimately you don't need

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Speaker 1: it because great costume plus great lighting equals great experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, the monster is often in shadow,

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Speaker 2: and this actually works to great effect. Again, it's a

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Speaker 2: common feature you see when people are talking about Dean

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Speaker 2: Kundy movies on the internet. I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: times they don't even know that they're The reason they're

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Speaker 2: saying this is that it's a Dean Kundy movie. But

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Speaker 2: you see this thing in reviews over and over, a

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Speaker 2: sentence like this trashy b movie is much more watchable

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Speaker 2: than it has any right to be. I think it's

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Speaker 2: that's just Dean, that's Dean work and his stuff, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of it has to do with lighting and

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Speaker 2: good framing and pleasant cinematography. I don't know if pleasants

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Speaker 2: the right word, but it's interesting to look at, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's visually not boring.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of visually not boring, we've already touched on Jack

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Speaker 1: Palance's presence in this, and I think one of the

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Speaker 1: key things about Jack Palance, again, the intense. He is great,

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Speaker 1: but there is an inherent weirdness that Palance brings to

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Speaker 1: any picture, whether you're looking at a blockbuster film that

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Speaker 1: he was in. You know, if you're looking at you

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Speaker 1: could be looking at City Slickers or Batman or Shane

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Speaker 1: or Outlaw of Gore or anything like when he shows up, Like,

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Speaker 1: if there's nothing else weird about the film, Palance is

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Speaker 1: the weirdness.

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Speaker 2: It's like he's always just about to start telling you

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Speaker 2: about his erotic model train hobby. It's just he's got

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Speaker 2: secrets and they're bursting out, they're about to leak out

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Speaker 2: of his face.

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Speaker 1: I should also add that Palance has this kind of

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Speaker 1: captain ahab vibe throughout the film too, so you're you're

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Speaker 1: never really sure if you can trust him him, You're

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Speaker 1: not really sure if you can trust the character. And

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Speaker 1: I think there's there's something about that that Palance brings

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Speaker 1: to most films, like he is you look, just look

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Speaker 1: at him, and this is not leading man, This is

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Speaker 1: not the hero. This is a potential villain at least.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, he really feels like this tweener character.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. You walk into him his

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Speaker 2: gas station and he starts talking to you about hunting

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Speaker 2: and that sort of thing. You don't know if you

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Speaker 2: can rely on him when he later shows up in

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Speaker 2: the dark with a gun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, one of the beautiful things about this film

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Speaker 1: is that Jack Palance is not the only creepy old

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Speaker 1: man character played by an established character actor, because we

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Speaker 1: also have Martin Landau in this picture.

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Speaker 2: No, they really swung for the bleachers, I mean with

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Speaker 2: the casting here, so it's got Martin Landel. Also Martin Landel,

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Speaker 2: I'd say one of my favorite old character actors. He

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Speaker 2: gives one of the best movie performances of all time

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Speaker 2: playing Bella Legosi. And Tim Burton's ed Wood. I've kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, I hate to talk smack, but I've

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Speaker 2: kind of gotten tired of Tim Burton movies in the

401
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Speaker 2: modern era. But when you go back to some of

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Speaker 2: the Tim Burton stuff from the nineties, it's so lively

403
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Speaker 2: and fantastic, and ed Wood is one of the best

404
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Speaker 2: examples of that. Of course, it's about a schlock movie

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Speaker 2: maker himself. What's his name, Edward? No, no, no, I

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Speaker 2: mean no, who plays Edwood? What's about the actor? The

407
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Speaker 2: actor Johnny Depp? So yeah, yeah, Johny dep Yeah, yeah, sorry,

408
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Speaker 2: Johnny Depp plays Edward and of course, late in life, Edwood,

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Speaker 2: the schlock filmmaker, actually did form a relationship with the

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Speaker 2: great actor Bella Lagosi and cast him in some of

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Speaker 2: his films, and this is portrayed in the movie, with

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Speaker 2: Martin Landau playing Bella Lagosi as a kind of tired,

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Speaker 2: washed up, ornery version of himself.

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Speaker 1: A quick note, Martin Landau has a lot of vampire

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Speaker 1: in the family because not only did he play Bella Lagosi,

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Speaker 1: but his daughter Susan Finch was one of the producers

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Speaker 1: of bron Stokers of Dracula, and his other daughter Juliet

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Speaker 1: played Drusella on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we've looked that up before when we were watching Buffy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I remember we discovered that fact and it was just

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Speaker 2: a delight. Martin Landau is so lovable as Bella, and

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Speaker 2: even in this movie where he's not playing a lovable character,

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Speaker 2: he's somehow lovable anyway.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess it's more of a like his

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Speaker 1: character goes the way you really expect Palance's character to go,

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Speaker 1: because he plays this character named Sarge, who's a like

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Speaker 1: an army vet I guess we're supposed to believe, and

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Speaker 1: he we learned increasingly learned that he has some some

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Speaker 1: serious psychological baggage. And so even though he is aware

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Speaker 1: that there's some sort of alien presence in the local

431
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Speaker 1: area causing mischief, he heaps like additional conspiracy theory on

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Speaker 1: top of that, additional like psychotic thinking where he he

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Speaker 1: believes also that the alien might be in disguising itself

434
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: with various people that they you know, there's a real

435
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: conspiracy going on when there isn't, but it may makes

436
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,959
Speaker 1: for a sort of a sort of a surprise villain

437
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: in the film.

438
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's he's he plays the unfortunate role of like

439
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 2: the teens. Okay, maybe we should actually summarize the plot

440
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: a little bit more to get up to this point. So, so,

441
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 2: like it starts off with there are a pair of

442
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: hunters who are out hunting. There's this older hunter played

443
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: by Cameron Mitchell we can talk about in a minute.

444
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: And then he's got this younger son with a mustache

445
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: who doesn't like hunting and doesn't want to be outdoors

446
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: and it's just whining. And then they both get killed

447
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 2: by the alien. Okay, it's your classic you know, prolog

448
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: a slaughter in a horror movie, right, And then you've

449
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 2: got the makeout point teens who show up in a

450
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 2: van there, you know, the classic teens from the city.

451
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: They want to go swimming at the lake and so

452
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 2: they're hanging out in their bathing suits in their van.

453
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 2: They stop at the gas station that I believe belongs

454
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 2: to Jack Palance to get gas presumably, but they end

455
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: up going in the bathroom and running into Martin Landau

456
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 2: as Sarge, who's kind of creepy, and then just disappears.

457
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: And then they make it to the lake and then

458
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 2: the slaughtering starts. The alien praise on one of the

459
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 2: one couple of the teens, and then the other couple

460
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,400
Speaker 2: of teens run for help at a local bar, and

461
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 2: then on once they're at the bar, the run into

462
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 2: Sarge and they're saying there's an alien trying to kill us,

463
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 2: and Sarge believes them, but unfortunately he also I think,

464
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 2: ends up believing that they are aliens themselves.

465
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is ultimately a clever idea like having the

466
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: two old men, creepy old men that you run into

467
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: one is going to be more and more of a

468
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: benefit than the other by far right. But Landau does

469
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: a great job in this, brings a real kind of

470
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: crazy intensity to it. And you know, I don't know

471
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: that I remember seeing him play as much of like

472
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: a deranged villain character before in a film. A lot

473
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: of the things I'd seen him in he was more

474
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: of a really more of a leading man or hero.

475
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 1: I finally remember him on the seventies TV show Space

476
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, which was rerun like crazy at one

477
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: point in the nineties on the Sci Fi Channel.

478
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: He's actually in a really great old episode of The

479
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: Twilight Zone where I believe he plays some kind of

480
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: Eastern Bloc agent who's trying to defect in one episode,

481
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: and he is being pursued by assassins in the company

482
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: that he's trying or from the country that he's trying

483
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: to defect from, and they have booby trapped his hotel

484
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: room with a bomb, and so it's his job to

485
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: try to figure out where the bomb in the room is.

486
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: And it's a nice tight little bottle episode. All right.

487
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: So, so Landau's great in this, But let let's talk

488
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: about some of the other actors here. You have Kevin

489
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: Peter Hall playing the monster, the Hunter itself, and Hall

490
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: is a legendary monster player who most ironically went on

491
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: to play the Predator in both Predator one and two.

492
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: So this is where things almost get kind of suspicious,

493
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: and you wonder, like, I don't know about the screenwriters

494
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 2: who wrote Predator, but did they actually watch this movie?

495
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: Were they actually just ripping it off?

496
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I think we'll get into

497
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: that a little bit when we discussed like the ideas

498
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: behind it, sort of the the mythic underpinnings of the film.

499
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: But maybe Kevin Peter Hall also played some other monsters

500
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: during his time. He sadly died in nineteen ninety one,

501
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: but before then he played the Newtant Bear in the

502
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine film Prophecy. He also played Harry and

503
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: Harry in The Henderson's Heart Eyes Bulging, Yeah Yeah. And

504
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: he was Big John in Big Top Peewee.

505
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. So famously a very tall actor, great, you know,

506
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: great presence for creature type roles, and you know what

507
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 2: I got to say, his body performance as the Predator

508
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: in the Predator film kind of makes it.

509
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 1: I know.

510
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: Originally they had cast Jean Claude Van Dam to play

511
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 2: the predator and no offense to Jean Claude van Dam.

512
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: But I don't know if that would have been as

513
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: effective in the movie, especially standing next to Arnold Schwarzenegger,

514
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: Like if the alien's literally smaller than him.

515
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like the stature is key, I think, But.

516
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: Also no, he's got a great physicality in the role too,

517
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 2: like the way he moves his arms and his stance

518
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 2: and all that. He really knew how to play non

519
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: speaking role.

520
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: Now, this movie also gave us a key cinematic debut

521
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: the ginger baby Face himself, David Caruso.

522
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: David Caruso, So he plays one of the makeout point

523
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 2: teams in this He's one of the ones that unfortunately

524
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: does not make it all the way to the bar.

525
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: He and his girlfriend are swimming in the lake. I

526
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: think the last time we see them they're literally on

527
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 2: a towel getting ready for some makeout action and then

528
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: they just end up later in the waterworks shed. But

529
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 2: so he is, he's very ginger, and he's wearing shorts

530
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 2: in this movie that are so short they inhert the

531
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 2: Axis of Time and Space. I'm like, I can't believe

532
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: that people once wore shorts that short.

533
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. He would of course go on

534
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: to make a career out of playing mostly cops and

535
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: detectives and occasionally criminals who basically seem like cops. But

536
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: that's his point. He was only twenty four four years

537
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: old and he just plays a horny teen who gets

538
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: himself killed by an alien.

539
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then also we have a veteran character actor,

540
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: Cameron Mitchell, who I mentioned that earlier. He's in the prologue.

541
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: He's one of the hunters who gets killed at the

542
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: beginning of the movie. And I must admit, the whole

543
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: time I was watching him in the prologue, I thought

544
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: he was Jack Palance because he kind of looks like him.

545
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: He has his face does a very similar thing to Palances,

546
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: like you just do not trust it. You know that

547
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: something is up when Cameron Mitchell like Locke's Eyes with you.

548
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: For fans of Mystery Science Theater three thousand, Cameron Mitchell

549
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: is maybe best known for playing the Santa Claus guy

550
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: in Space Mutiny. He's the old man with the white beard.

551
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's one of the Ultimately I feel like

552
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: it's such a disservice because that was probably the first

553
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: thing I saw him in and where in which I

554
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: recognized him as Cameron Mitchell. But generally he just plays

555
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: heavies and villains. And so if you watch most of

556
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: his works from before for Space Mutiny, those are the

557
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: kind of characters he plays, like dangerous men, unsavory characters.

558
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: And here again he plays an unsavory character who is

559
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: at one point just going to murder his own son

560
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: because he doesn't like hunting in the outdoors.

561
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: Because he doesn't like hunting. That is the reason we're given.

562
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, But anyway, Cameron Mitchell always of an interesting presence

563
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: in a film he worked. He worked with Mario Bava

564
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: a lot, for example. But I have also found that

565
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: nobody dies ten minutes into a film quite like Cameron Mitchell.

566
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: He has pulled this in other films. He's got a

567
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: real dirty rat face. Yeah. Now, a few other just

568
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: older actors have noted here. Larry Storch shows up as

569
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: a scout master. Neville Brand plays one of the drunks

570
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: in the bar, and he's another one of these character

571
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: acts with just a real landslide of a face, just

572
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: a total character actor, who, by the way, played the

573
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: killer in Toby Hooper's Eaten Alive from seventy six.

574
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: Oh, the movie with the Gator hotel.

575
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: I think that's the one is like the cover is

576
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: like he it's the cover is just a Neville brand

577
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: with a big sickle or something. Yeaheah.

578
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: I think that's right. I could be wrong, but yeah,

579
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: so he's great. I must say one of the other teens,

580
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: the male teen who survives longer into the movie. I

581
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: hate to bring politics into it, but it's Scaramucie. He's

582
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: baby Scaramouccie. That's exactly what he looks like. Maybe sort

583
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: of a cross between him and Casper van Deen. He's

584
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: got that van Den, sort of like a forest creature.

585
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: I I have to say that both of the teens

586
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: that last the longest in the film. Those actors, I

587
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: think were mainly stunt workers. But I thought they did

588
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: a fine job as far as like teen leads in

589
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: a horror movie from nineteen eighty go, I have no

590
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: problem with them at all. I thought they did a

591
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: pretty good job.

592
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, neither of them appears to have done all that

593
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: much else. The girl who is sort of comes the

594
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: final girl in the movie. She is played by an

595
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: actress named Tara Nutter, who I saw was also in

596
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: some movie with Ron Howard about an evil company that's

597
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: poisoning farmland.

598
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, not a.

599
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: Hugely extensive acting career. Well, maybe now we should get

600
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: infuriatingly granular about the physical reality imagined by this film.

601
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: Yes, it's time for a little monster science, because ultimately,

602
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: this is often the case if you have a suitably

603
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: weird creature, monster, or even just monstrous scenario in a film,

604
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: there's we always found that there's generally something in nature

605
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: that is as weird, if not weirder. And this is

606
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: the same it's going to be said about this film.

607
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: So we already touched on the fact that, unlike the predator,

608
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: this hunter doesn't use technology to hunt its prey. No,

609
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,959
Speaker 1: it uses other organisms. That uses flesh, frisbees. I mean,

610
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: presumably there are other organisms. I guess it's possible that

611
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,959
Speaker 1: it is like hatching these from its chest and then

612
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: collecting them in its purse or satchel and then flinging

613
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: them out. But I think the predominant interpretation, the fair interpretation,

614
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: would be that these are other organisms that it has.

615
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: Maybe it raises them in a tank somewhere, Maybe it

616
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: goes to some weird moon and collects them like like

617
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: a mushroom harvester. But at any rate, it comes to

618
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: Earth with a sack of these things looking for a

619
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: good hunt.

620
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

621
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, the jellyfish shirocin as I mentioned. I think maybe

622
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: you could think of them as technology, but they're definitely

623
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 2: not like inert mechanical technology. If there are technology at all,

624
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: their biotechnology. These things are definitely alive in some way.

625
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: They ooze, They're full of oleaginous you know, substances. They

626
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: got like little tentacles that poke out. They squeal, I

627
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: think when you stab them. So they're definitely alive in

628
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 2: some way. And yeah, I was curious about the same thing.

629
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: Are these like part of him, part of the Hunter

630
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: in some way? We don't. I don't think we ever

631
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: see them come off of his body in the movie.

632
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: He just throws them.

633
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, they come out of a satchel or purse.

634
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So it makes me think maybe there's some

635
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 2: kind of organism that he has collected from the natural

636
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: world on his home planet, or like you say, like

637
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 2: a moon or something. They made me think. Actually, I

638
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: recall back in the very first half Life game, there

639
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: was a weapon you could get. There were basically these

640
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: little alien rats and I don't remember exactly what they

641
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: were called, but you get like a bag of these

642
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 2: alien rats and you could kind of throw them into

643
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: a room and they'd run around and attack whatever was

644
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: in the room. But if you ran into the room yourself,

645
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: you were also vulnerable to them. They could like turn

646
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 2: around and attack you. And I wondered if the same

647
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: thing would be true of the flesh frisbees in this movie,

648
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 2: like could they turn against their master. I don't think

649
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: we see a character try to employ that method, but

650
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: we never see it work.

651
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, she didn't really have a good throwing arm on her. No.

652
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: So, one thing about these projectiles that I I was

653
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 2: looking for biological parallels to is the fact that they

654
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: are so obviously slimy and oleaginous. Right, they look greasy.

655
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: You get repeated close ups of the slime and the

656
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: mucus they produce, and it looks oily to me. It

657
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: looks like you need some good soap or something to

658
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 2: get it off. And as a point of comparison in

659
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: the natural world, I do want to mention a very

660
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: alarming grease throwing animal, which is a type of petrol,

661
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: a kind of bird of the southern half of the

662
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 2: world which projects a greasy slime vomit against other birds

663
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 2: as a defensive tactic. The most the bird best known

664
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: for this is a type of bird called full mars,

665
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 2: where they will spit out of their mouth a type

666
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: of stomach oil that if it gets on the feathers

667
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: of an attacking birds an eagle type predator, it makes

668
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: it undercuts the feathers ability to be waterproof, and it

669
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: hurts their ability to fly. So birds have actually died

670
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: because they were spit on with this mucous vomit oil

671
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: stuff from the full mar's stomach. They were, in fact

672
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: like cases I was reading of where birds like auks

673
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: were put in an enclosure with a full bar and

674
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 2: then got vomited on and died. Oh wow, so you

675
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: don't want this oil on you. I was also reading

676
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: in a post on Scientific American about how sometimes the

677
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: chicks of these full mars will just basically spit this

678
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 2: oil at anything that gets close to them, including their

679
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 2: own parents, and they have to like mature out of

680
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 2: that over time, and the parents apparently can defend themselves

681
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: by preening by removing it from their feathers with their beaks.

682
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking at a picture of one of these

683
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: right now, and it's like a vile orange grease that

684
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: seems to be flying out of this creature's mouth.

685
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: You don't want to get the gou on you. And

686
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: just like in the movie, you don't want to get

687
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 2: the gou on you. But it also is much more

688
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: than goo. It's an organism in itself. And I was

689
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: trying to think, you know, are there any animals I

690
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: could I could find examples of that threw a more

691
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: complex thing like the flesh frisbees in this movie, that

692
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: actually does something. I was having trouble finding good examples

693
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: of something that actually throws something more than just an

694
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: object from its environment or a liquid from its body.

695
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, offhand, I can't think of a good example of

696
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: that either. Yeah, generally, and animals are going to manipulate,

697
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's like sand or dirt shell that sort

698
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: of thing. But one example that I came across that's

699
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: probably the best example of an organism using organisms as

700
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: some sort of a tool or indeed some sort of

701
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: a weapon, and that is to look at the boxing

702
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: crab or palm pob crab found in the genus Libya.

703
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: These are little guys. These are like two centimeters or

704
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: point seven inches wide, so they're not very big crabs,

705
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: but have this wonderful adaptation where they will they will

706
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: collect or acquire and that's part of the mystery, these

707
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: little anemonies. And they'll have one in each claw and

708
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: they'll brandish them, almost like a pair of nunchucks or something.

709
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: They will they'll wave them around when they're doing various

710
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: displays for other crabs. But they also seem to use

711
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,479
Speaker 1: them to collect food. And there's a mutualism in play

712
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: here because the anemy gets you know, it's far more

713
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: mobile if a crab is carrying it around. But I

714
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: was looking at a twenty thirteen study from Barilan University

715
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: and they were really getting into how do they acquire

716
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: these particular anemonies. And they found that, for instance, if

717
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: they lose their anenemy, they may steal one from somebody else.

718
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: If they have only one, they'll rip it in half

719
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 1: so that they have two. And that particular study, they

720
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: were looking at one variety of boxing crab, and they

721
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: pointed out that the variety of anemony that the crab

722
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: used had not been found yet in the wild. Now,

723
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: that could just mean we just had not found it yet.

724
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: There are a lot of organisms in the wild that

725
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: we have not fully charged, obviously. But the other possibility

726
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 1: is that it is essentially a domesticated, fully cultivated species

727
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: that has henceforth gone extinct in the wild, and it

728
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 1: is only carried on by these crabs that use them

729
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: as a sort of tool or weapon.

730
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: It's like an agricultural product of the crab society.

731
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you could compare it in that

732
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 1: respect to leafcutter ants and the crop they grow. But yeah,

733
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: I love the idea of comparing the boxing crab to

734
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: the hunter from without Warning, because it makes you wonder, like,

735
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: what kind of evolutionary path led the hunter here? Did

736
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: it grow up cultivating its weapon race of deathly flying discs,

737
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: and just you know, it ends up being part of

738
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: the way it lives its life. Eventually they start making

739
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: satchels to carry them in. Maybe at some point they

740
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: were like exo parasites that collected on their and then

741
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: they started using them offensively. I don't know.

742
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: That would not be the only case in nature of

743
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 2: something that begins as a parasite, but then eventually is

744
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 2: adopted into a kind of mutualism with the host.

745
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

746
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: In fact, I think that could probably be said to

747
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: be the case for a lot of just you know,

748
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: the regular microbiota that lives on and in all of us.

749
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I should add that we never see the alien

750
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: hunter without his outfit on. If they were to pull

751
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: that costume off, perhaps he just covered with him. They

752
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: just suckered all over.

753
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 2: Him, right, or they're just like coming out of a

754
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: little like a printer slot in his belly. Now we

755
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 2: mentioned at some point the character played by the actress

756
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 2: Tara Nutter tries to throw one of these things back

757
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 2: at the alien, you know, to turn his weapons against him,

758
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 2: and it fails. She like throws it and it falls

759
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: short of him. So you never get the sense that

760
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: would it have worked if it had hit him, Like,

761
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 2: if she was able to hit him with this thing,

762
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 2: would it latch on and poison him and do its

763
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 2: thing like it does with humans, or you know know,

764
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: is it just like would he be immune to it? Anyway?

765
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: The movie does not solve this riddle that itself has posed,

766
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 2: but maybe that would be a good place to talk

767
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 2: about what happens at the end. Of the film because

768
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: that's when she throws the disc. So there are various

769
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: encounters where the teens are running around. The surviving teens

770
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: are being pursued by Martin Landau, who at some point

771
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 2: he gets a police car and he's like driving after

772
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:26,359
Speaker 2: them in it.

773
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: Oh, well, there's this wonderful scene where the police officer

774
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: shows up, yeah to save the day, and Sarge shoots

775
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 1: him dead.

776
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right.

777
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: And then of course more police come to arrest Sarge.

778
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: But then Sarge apparently steals the police vehicle and shows

779
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: up in the police car. You think the both the

780
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: police are here to save the teens. No, it's Sarge again.

781
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think Sarge shoots the police officer because he

782
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: thinks he's an alien. Yes, And then yeah, so he's

783
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 2: in the police car. He's chasing the teens around. And

784
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: then at some point the teens escape and they go

785
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: into a hunting cabin or a house, and then the

786
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: movie gets kind of quiet for a bit where they're

787
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 2: just chilling out in the house. They're looking around the

788
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: baby Scaramushi bruised this pot of coffee and then presumably

789
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: drinks it all from it looks like he drinks about

790
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: four gallons of coffee and then dies in a chair.

791
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: I remember him going to make the coffee, saying he's

792
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: going to stay up all night and protect her. Whyn't

793
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: you sleep? And I wanted to be like, oh, sweet,

794
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: that's not how coffee works. You can't just brew a

795
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: pot of coffee and that's going to keep alone, is

796
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: going to keep you up all night?

797
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, how much coffee do I need in order to

798
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 2: stay up all night? I would guess about four gallons. Yeah,

799
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: that will get me through. So he's dead in a

800
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: chair when we find him with a flesh frisbee attached

801
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 2: to his face. So you might assume, okay, the alien

802
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: killed him, but it's also quite possible that he just

803
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: died of diarrhea from the four gallons of coffee before that,

804
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: and then the alien just stuck the flesh frisbee on there,

805
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 2: kind of as an afterthought. But then we get a chase.

806
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: The alien is chasing Tera Nutter around and Jack Palin

807
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 2: shows up to help her, and Jack Palance reveals that

808
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 2: he has laid a trap for the alien that now

809
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: the aliens shed the former water utility is shed that

810
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 2: has all the dead bodies in it is rigged with

811
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: dynamite and they're going to lure the alien back to

812
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 2: the shed and blow him to pieces. And essentially this

813
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: process works, except that at some point Sarge shows up

814
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: and temporarily foils their plan, and then he gets killed

815
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: by the alien. Unfortunately, Jack Palance gets flesh frisbeed a lot,

816
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: and no amount of cutting off the flesh frisbees will

817
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: save him, so instead he sacrifices himself, charging straight on

818
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: at the alien and yelling.

819
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 1: And you can just tell when they filmed the scene they.

820
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: Were looking around at each other thinking like, did we

821
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: ever give the alien a name? Does it have a name?

822
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 2: And the answer is no, So he just.

823
00:43:53,840 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: Yells alien, Yeah it really does. Ultimately have his Captain

824
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: Ahab moment. Yeah.

825
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, from the heart of Hell, I stab at the

826
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: I guess from the heart of Hell, I run at

827
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: the alien.

828
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: Yah if he presumably pulls it off.

829
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, see he grabs the alien around the ankles

830
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 2: and then they blow it to pieces with the dynamite

831
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 2: and the day is saved.

832
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: But that's why Palents didn't get to play Ahab in

833
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: a film adaptation to Mobi Dick, because he's like and

834
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: then I kill the whale. That's how this goes. And

835
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: they're like, no, no, it's not exactly how the novel goes.

836
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: And he's like, it doesn't matter. I think a run

837
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: it that whale, I take it down.

838
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say that's why he

839
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 2: never played Ahab, because he's like, I've already done that role.

840
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: It's perfect.

841
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: No adaptation of Moby Dick could rival without warning. Do

842
00:44:47,080 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: I get to run at the whale? Yelling way? Well,

843
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 2: perhaps we should talk about what is this film trying

844
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: to say, if it is trying to say anything. I

845
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: do think this one is trying to say something, but

846
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure it's sure what that is. But

847
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: I can tell you it is something about hunting. The

848
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 2: film is clearly a meditation on the theme of hunting,

849
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 2: because the alien is a hunter, and they just really

850
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 2: beat you over the head with it. Almost every single

851
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,720
Speaker 2: character talks about hunting.

852
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, from the very beginning, like the father and son

853
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: are arguing about hunting, like why do you like hunting? Dad?

854
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, Son, why don't you not like hunting?

855
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: So they really kind of to a certain extent, beat

856
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 1: you over the head with it. But at the same time,

857
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: after a while, it feels like they're not really sure

858
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: what point they're trying to make about hunting. I mean

859
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: maybe to an extent, maybe that's good. Like you don't

860
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 1: feel like there's a really heavy handed message to this film.

861
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 2: Oh sure, I mean I'm not saying that. I think

862
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: every film should have a moral that can be stated

863
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 2: in a sentence. Though if this film has any thoughts

864
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 2: in general about hunting, even then I'm not quite sure

865
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: what those are. But maybe maybe we'll find something here,

866
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: because I wanted to explore these these hunting themes in

867
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 2: literature a little bit and see if we can if

868
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 2: that can inform our vision of the movie. Now, obviously,

869
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,720
Speaker 2: stories of divine hunters, like you would say, the alien

870
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: in this movie is in a way a divine hunter, right,

871
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: it comes down from the sky. It's got superhuman powers,

872
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: and it uses them to hunt on earth, but not

873
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 2: just to hunt beasts, to hunt the most dangerous game

874
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 2: of all, which is mad and so obviously, you know,

875
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 2: these stories of divine hunters are just rich throughout ancient mythology.

876
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: Most of the myths of hunters, I think, are about

877
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 2: normal hunting. You know, they're humans or humanoid gods who

878
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 2: hunt animals, And then a lot of hunting mythology is

879
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: about the relationship between hunters and prey and the gods

880
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: who aid hunters in the hunt. But there are a

881
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 2: few myths that sort of turned the tables on the

882
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 2: hunting dynamics in the style of Predator or this movie,

883
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 2: or one of my favorites, the tagline from the for

884
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 2: the nineties movie Congo. You remember that tagline that goes

885
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 2: where you are the endangered species?

886
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess it's often pointed out too that modern

887
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: twists on this or are all kind of a twist

888
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: on a most dangerous game in which you know, humans

889
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: are hunting humans. And then in just in sci fi,

890
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: like there was an older Isaac Asimov's story in which

891
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: there's like a time traveler who gets drunk at a

892
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 1: bar and tells everybody that he traveled back to dinosaur

893
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: days and found that reptilian humanoids hunted all the dinosaurs

894
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: to extinction. So this idea of alien or alien esque hunters,

895
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, certainly predates even this film.

896
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And other sci fi stories have touched

897
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 2: on hunting themes, of course. I mean the one that

898
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 2: immediately comes to mind as a sound of thunder where

899
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: there's time travel again and the idea that but this

900
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: is also about humans hunting animals. In that story, the

901
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: humans go back, they hunt dinosaurs, and unfortunately in hunting

902
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 2: dinosaurs they create ripple effects throughout time. You know, it's

903
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 2: the butterfly effect explored. But this, of course is the

904
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 2: theme where we're talking here about humans or humanoid gods

905
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 2: being the prey. And I think there are some myths

906
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 2: that sort of get into territory at least close to this.

907
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,479
Speaker 2: One example is a number of myths about the Greek

908
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 2: goddess Artemis having various kinds of hunts for humans, or

909
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 2: at least hunting sort of revenge on humans that in

910
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: some way resembles a hunt. Artemis. Artemis is an interesting figure,

911
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 2: of course, she is the virgin goddess of the hunt

912
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: in Greek mythology. There are some connections between her and

913
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 2: probably older, more ancient goddesses who symbolized something having to

914
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: do with fertility in the ancient Near East. But in

915
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 2: Greek mythology, Artemis is very often associated with hunts and

916
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 2: hunting weapons and the wilderness and wild animals. She had

917
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: these stags and deer that are sacred to her. She,

918
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 2: like the predator, and like the alien in Without Warning,

919
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: has powerful supernatural tools that aid her in the hunt.

920
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 2: So whereas the Predator's got his laser cannon and his

921
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: blades and his nets and all those things, and of

922
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 2: course the alien from Without Warning has the flesh frisbees,

923
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 2: Artemis has a silver bow and silver arrows that were

924
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:44,719
Speaker 2: forged by the cyclopes in this underwater realm, and the

925
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 2: arrows of this bow could split a pine tree and

926
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 2: the quiver would always be full. And she also has

927
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: a pack of hunting dogs that she acquired from the

928
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 2: god Pan, you know, the little King of the Wood,

929
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 2: which could outrun any deer or outfight any lion. And

930
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 2: there are a number of myths where she sort of

931
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 2: hunts a person or a deity after they've offended her

932
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 2: in some way. I think that probably the best known

933
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 2: of these is the myth of Acteon, right where Acteon

934
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 2: is himself a hunter. He's a young hunter who's traveling

935
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 2: through the forest and he sees Artemis bathing in a

936
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: pool or a stream, and he's like wow, And then

937
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 2: she catches him looking at her, and because he saw

938
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 2: her naked, she transforms him into a stag, and then

939
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 2: he is pursued by dogs. I think in most versions

940
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 2: of the story, I think he's pursued by his own

941
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 2: hunting dogs that mistake him for the prey now, and

942
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 2: they catch him and they tear him to pieces. But

943
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 2: I've also seen some version where apparently she hunts him

944
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 2: with her hounds, maybe the hounds of Pan, and they

945
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 2: catch him and rip him apart.

946
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: You know, this is great because on one hand, hunting

947
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: dogs are a perfect analog to the flying fresh flesh

948
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 1: for yes, yeah, yeah, biotechnology, domesticated creatures that we send

949
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: forth to do our will on the hunt. I wonder

950
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 1: too about you know, obviously, hunting was such an important

951
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: part of life, an essential part of life for for

952
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: early humans. So it makes sense that this thing that

953
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: we depended on, you know, on a daily basis, would

954
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: would mingle so with our myth making. But also I

955
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: wonder if there's a sense that it that it that

956
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: it also reveals, especially for early humans, how delicate our

957
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: place in the natural order was. Like in the same

958
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: way that has often pointed out that our cats, our

959
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: pet cats, are you are extra insane because in the

960
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: in the wild, they are both predator and prey, you know,

961
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: and and so for early man especially that would have

962
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: been the case. There were beasts that would eat us,

963
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: just as we had to eat beasts, and and in

964
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: doing so, you know, a lot of these myths kind

965
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 1: of uh seem to explore that dual nature that you know,

966
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,479
Speaker 1: just but for the will of the goddess, I could

967
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: be the creature hunted by these fierce beasts that do

968
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: my bidding.

969
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a natural place to go, and

970
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 2: it's a natural kind of irony to explore, you know.

971
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 2: It's very much that like Avid's metamorphosis territory, you know,

972
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 2: the ironies inherent in the natural order of things. One

973
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 2: of the most obvious kind of ironies you could get

974
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 2: into is the order of the food chain. We're usually

975
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 2: at the top, we're doing all the hunting. But what

976
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,719
Speaker 2: if you were the prey, which, in fact, and that's

977
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 2: not even something you have to imagine a magical scenario for, Like,

978
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 2: you know, if you are stranded without tools, without aid

979
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, you could easily become a prey

980
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 2: animal to a lion or something like that. But I

981
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 2: think the strange part comes in the strangeness enters when

982
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 2: you're imagining not just being prey to a wild animal,

983
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: but being prey to a human or humanoid hunter.

984
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, being the focus of the hunter's will.

985
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because human hunters are different than wild animals. They've got,

986
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: you know, these they've got tools, they've got technology like

987
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 2: Artemis does, they've got language, they've got sort of complex

988
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,479
Speaker 2: desires and will. That the reason that Artemis might hunt

989
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 2: a human would be not because she desires its meat

990
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: to eat, but because she hates it for some reason

991
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 2: it has offended her, and that would be the case

992
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: in say, the myth of Niobe again, this one is

993
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 2: it's not a perfect analogy because it's not exactly a hunt,

994
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 2: but the normal version of this myth is that Niobe

995
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 2: is the human daughter of Tantalus and the wife of Amphion,

996
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: the king of Thebes, and in a lot of tellings

997
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 2: she boasts in pride that she has more children than

998
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: the titan Letto, who is the mother of Apollo and Artemis.

999
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 2: And then Apollo and Artemis get revenge against her for

1000
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 2: making this prideful boast against their mother by slaughtering all

1001
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 2: of Niobe's children, which is, you know, a very Greek

1002
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 2: myth kind of thing to happen. And so the way

1003
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 2: it happens is that Artemis showers them with shafts from

1004
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 2: her bow while they're in their home, and Apollo takes

1005
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 2: the sons of Niobe hunting and kills them all while

1006
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 2: on the hunt, and Niobe is left to grieve. So

1007
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 2: there is sort of like a hunting inflection in the

1008
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: revenge plot here.

1009
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: Now there's also a sense, especially without warning, there's this

1010
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: idea too that all right, you bumbling teens have just

1011
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: wandered into something beyond your comprehension, and now you're stuck

1012
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: in it. And really we see this as well with

1013
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: this mythic concept of the doom that comes with interrupting

1014
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: a divine hunt, such as the wild hunt traditions of

1015
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: northern Europe. So in these traditions you have gods such

1016
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: as Odin and or the spirits of hunters past, running

1017
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: amok across the countryside, often at night with hell hounds

1018
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 1: into in pursuit of prey. And that prey might be

1019
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: a magical or divine heart, you know, some sort of

1020
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: sacred a deer. It might be demons thereafter, it might

1021
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: be the souls of the damned as another frequent prey,

1022
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: or they might be chasing nothing at all, or nothing

1023
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: that you can even you know, determine. Now, the rules

1024
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: of these hunts and these hunt encounters seem to vary,

1025
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: but basically getting in the way of these hunts, or

1026
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: certainly even being seen by these hunts is potentially dangerous.

1027
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: You might get swept away into the underworld, and in

1028
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: some versions of the tradition, trying to interfere with in

1029
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 1: the hunt will spell your doom, but in some versions,

1030
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: aiding the hunt could earn you a reward.

1031
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 2: Ah, I see, So these are kind of ghost riders

1032
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 2: in the sky, Like, yeah, you and you come across them,

1033
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 2: you best not get in their way, even if they're

1034
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: not hunting for you.

1035
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 1: Right.

1036
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,800
Speaker 2: There's kind of a sense of that in actually, I

1037
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 2: would say, in a lot of horror movies, but also

1038
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 2: in definitely in Without Warning and in Predator. I know,

1039
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: there's a lot of sort of academic theory about one

1040
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: of the common themes of horror being, uh, you know,

1041
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 2: the danger of going into liminal spaces that people are

1042
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 2: punished for venturing into areas and meddling into affairs that

1043
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 2: are not their purview, and so you know, you go

1044
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 2: and so in Predator would be there, like these commandos

1045
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 2: go into some other country that is not their home,

1046
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 2: and they get involved in stuff that is none of

1047
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 2: their affair, and thus they become targets of this otherworldly hunt.

1048
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 2: I think the same thing is sort of true and

1049
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 2: without warning, except it's hokey or I mean, basically the

1050
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 2: place they're going is like to some river in some

1051
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: kind of rural area. But again it's like city kids,

1052
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 2: it's the you know, the makeout point. Teens are not

1053
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 2: from here, and they go in and they suffer for

1054
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: invading this liminal space.

1055
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess you could even say that

1056
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: in without warning, you know, they're trying they're trying to

1057
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,720
Speaker 1: make some point about the distance between the young generation

1058
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: the older generation, between urban and rural, and so you

1059
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: could say that there is some exploration of the idea

1060
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: that it is like another world, but it does.

1061
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 2: They are getting in the way of the hunt, like

1062
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 2: the able that's where he's doing his stuff, and they

1063
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: show up and almost kind of like get into the

1064
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 2: middle of it and are punished for it.

1065
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, like everybody's doing basically okay with it. The drunks

1066
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: in the bar, they're just maintaining Sergetes addled, but you know,

1067
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 1: he's not hurting anybody, and Palettes really wants to hunt

1068
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: that alien. But you get to see the feeling that

1069
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 1: he's just been waiting for the right opportunity to really

1070
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: bring it to the next level. And that's what the

1071
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: kids do. They just knock all of the norms out

1072
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: of out of position, and now we're in a you know,

1073
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: a much dire situation, right. But with the wild hunts,

1074
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:42,919
Speaker 1: like I said, a lot of the time they're hunting

1075
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: demons and whatnot. But some of these wild hunt traditions

1076
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: do involve the wild hunters hunting the living. Consider the

1077
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: Devil's Dandy Dogs of Cornwall, which Carol Rose a focus

1078
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: story and has written a couple of wonderful encyclopedias that

1079
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: I continually come back to about monsters and fairies. She

1080
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: describes the Devil's Dandy Dogs as demonic huntsmen in a

1081
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: pack of black, fiery eyed demon dogs who quote hunt

1082
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: down the living and rip them to pieces. And then

1083
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: they also hunt the souls of the damned. And then

1084
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: there's also the coon Anin or the hounds of Fairyland

1085
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: or the Hounds of Hell, also known as the Hounds

1086
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: of the Mother, or the Corpse Dogs or the sky Dogs.

1087
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 2: Wow.

1088
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have a number of different names, and according

1089
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,479
Speaker 1: to Rose, they're mostly invisible. But when you do see

1090
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: these dogs, they're stark white and they have red eyes

1091
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 1: and red ears, and they're led by either the Devil

1092
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: or a giant named Bran or a quote monstrous, black faced,

1093
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: gray clad master huntsmen and known as Gwyn app nude.

1094
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: And they might be hunting the living, they might be

1095
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: hunting the souls of the dead. They also might be

1096
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 1: hunting unrepentant sinners or unbaptized babies, depending on the telling.

1097
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 2: Is it much sport to hunt unpaptized babies.

1098
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wouldn't think so, unless they're just

1099
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: really cagy babies. Okay, So yeah, So clearly there is.

1100
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 2: This idea that there are I mean, I think this

1101
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 2: is common in beliefs about fairies or about the hidden people,

1102
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 2: that they have their own affairs and they're going about

1103
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 2: their own business, and that humans often get into trouble

1104
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 2: when you sort of wander into the middle of what

1105
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 2: they're doing. So are you saying that that's sort of

1106
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: what's going on here and connects in a way with

1107
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 2: Predator and Without Warning.

1108
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think there is a sense that you know,

1109
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: you've stumbled upon this otherworldly affair that you don't have

1110
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: any right to be a part of, but now you're

1111
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: in it, and you may well face your doom because

1112
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: of it.

1113
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 2: There is a strange sense of implied justice that is

1114
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 2: more there, I would say, in Predator than in Without Warning.

1115
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 2: In Predator you recall that, like the Predator does not

1116
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 2: say to attack anyone who is unarmed, so in some way,

1117
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 2: it is almost a chivalrous alien hunter that it only

1118
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 2: wants someone who's a good sport, and you're only good

1119
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 2: sport for it if you can defend yourself. Yeah, I

1120
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 2: feel like that's less the case. And Without Warning I

1121
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:16,439
Speaker 2: don't remember anything.

1122
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: Well, we do have that scene where the monster the

1123
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 1: Hunter has no problem taking out the scout master, but

1124
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: lets an entire pack of boy scouts go free.

1125
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: That's right, I forgot about that scene. So maybe the

1126
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,479
Speaker 2: same thing is implied here. I'm coming back to it again,

1127
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 2: you screenwriters of Predator, I'm coming for you. I want

1128
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 2: to know you. Was this just a variation on without warning.

1129
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the Hunter knew that David the Babyface

1130
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: David Crusoe or David Face Baby Crusoe, whichever it knew

1131
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: that he was. This is a character worth hunting to

1132
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: the death right. But the boy Scouts got to let

1133
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: him go, let him, let him grow up a little bit.

1134
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the other two teens who got killed by

1135
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 2: the lake weren't They weren't armed, So I don't know

1136
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 2: how holds up. Well, yeah, so maybe the boy Scouts

1137
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 2: are let go just because they're too young. Maybe that's it.

1138
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: The flesh isn't tasty yet. I don't know, right, Maybe

1139
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: the sucker of frisbees don't actually attach the younglings. We

1140
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: don't know, or maybe they'd all been baptized. We don't

1141
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: know the full religious history of everybody in this film.

1142
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 2: Oh that's true. We never get any glimpse at the

1143
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 2: religion of the Hunter, though you kind of get the

1144
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 2: sense that there is at least some narrow bit of

1145
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 2: culture implied, because the Hunter is not dressed in what

1146
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 2: appears to be utilitarian clothing. The alien Hunter is dressed

1147
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: in something that looks at least from the earth analogy,

1148
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: like religious garb. It has robes, and then it has

1149
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 2: this kind of woven net like or almost Macromay kind

1150
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 2: of thing over it.

1151
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which I think does also add to the

1152
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: just weird vibe of the villain here, because yeah, he's

1153
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: not outfitted like a human hunter. He's not using tools

1154
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: that are seemingly like anything we use to hunt. He's

1155
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: like some weird alien priest, flinging flesh frisbees all over

1156
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: the woods.

1157
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: Here's a jellyfish Dominus vobiscum. So I wanted to point

1158
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 2: out something else that I thought was interesting. That's something

1159
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 2: in common with, or something in common between Without Warning

1160
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 2: Predator and some ancient myths about divine hunters, which is,

1161
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 2: how do you defeat them? If there's like a divine

1162
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 2: hunter with otherworldly powers and tools at its disposal, is

1163
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 2: there any way that immortal or a less powerful entity

1164
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 2: can face it down? And the answer appears to be traps.

1165
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 2: In this movie, it's Jack Palance with a shed rigged

1166
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 2: with dynamite. Remember he gets the explosives in the in

1167
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 2: the watershed and then they blow the alien to pieces

1168
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 2: after he yells alien. And then in Predator it's Schwarzenegger's

1169
01:02:55,520 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 2: tree trunk counterweight, right. Oh yeah, Like he Schwarzenegger sets

1170
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 2: up a trap that I think is supposed to originally

1171
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 2: hook under the predator's feet and then like throw him

1172
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 2: up into a bunch of spikes but or sharpened steaks.

1173
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: But then he has to kind of improvise because the

1174
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 2: predator goes around his trap. But then he gets him anyway,

1175
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 2: just by dropping a log on him.

1176
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: He's I think the more ingenious thing that Schwartzenager's character

1177
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 1: was a Dutch could have employed. He don't try and

1178
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 1: make a really good trap, make a terrible trap, like

1179
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: a really obviously bad trap that just make the predator

1180
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 1: give up and realize, Okay, this guy is not a genius,

1181
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: not a discord after all. Yeah, I'm just gonna go

1182
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: ahead and call it a day, which I guess to

1183
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: a certain extent, that's what Sarage is doing in this movie,

1184
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: because we learned that Sarage is going around digging tiger traps, yes,

1185
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,919
Speaker 1: deep pit traps, all over the place, to the point

1186
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 1: where our heroes just fall.

1187
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 2: Into one at some point, but they're fine, there are

1188
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 2: fights or anything.

1189
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: It's not a very good trap.

1190
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but this actually does connect it to a

1191
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 2: Greek myth. So there's a Greek mythut the pair of

1192
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 2: figures known as the Aloaid, in which Artemis, the divine hunter,

1193
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 2: again kills two other divine hunters, two otherwise invincible aggressive

1194
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 2: divine hunters, only by resorting to a trap. So here

1195
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 2: is sort of predator versus predators. Now, the Aloaid were

1196
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 2: these twin giants. They were the sons of a human

1197
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 2: mother named Ifemidea and of the sea god Poseidon, and

1198
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 2: their names were ODIs and e Fialtes. And as demi gods,

1199
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 2: ODIs and e Fialtes grew large and violent, and they

1200
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 2: lived as these wild, uncontrollable hunters on the land, and

1201
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,760
Speaker 2: they were so powerful that they could only be killed

1202
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 2: by each other, and they eventually nurtured designs on Mount Olympus.

1203
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 2: They wanted to attack the home of the gods, and

1204
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 2: it said that Aris, the god of war, tried to

1205
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: stop them. He tried to kill them, but they crammed

1206
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 2: him into a brazen cauldron. And some versions of the

1207
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 2: myth the twin giants wanted to steal away Artemis and

1208
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 2: Hera from Olympus and make them into their wives. And

1209
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 2: in one telling of the myth. The way they're defeated.

1210
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 2: I think there's some versions where Apollo kills them, but

1211
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 2: in one version, the huntress Artemis is able to catch

1212
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 2: them in a trap. She transforms herself into a stag

1213
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 2: and then bits the two of them into a hunt

1214
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 2: and in animal form, Artemis positions herself between the two

1215
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 2: giants and they each throw their hunting spears at her,

1216
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 2: and then she dodges, and the spears thrown by each

1217
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 2: hunter pierced the other, and thus the Demi gods are slain.

1218
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: You know what that reminds me of? It also reminds

1219
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: me of RoboCop three. Isn't that how RoboCop defeats the

1220
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 1: two cyber ninjas? Oh?

1221
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 4: Is it?

1222
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: Kind of? I don't recall it, Like basically, he somehow

1223
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 1: tricks or so some shenanigans occur that cause the two

1224
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: cyber ninjas to destroy each other with their swords.

1225
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 2: That's interesting And as a connections, I was reading on

1226
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 2: IMDb the young actor who played Scaramuci van Deen in

1227
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 2: this movie. He apparently did stunts in RoboCop three, if

1228
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 2: his IMDb page is correct. But anyway, is this a coincidence?

1229
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 2: Why are traps the obvious answer to an overpowered celestial

1230
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 2: hunter from the sky.

1231
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, one part of it could just be to,

1232
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: you know, to think back on how we would have

1233
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: dealt with larger predators of old. You know, we had

1234
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 1: to figure out ways to outsmart them, and that may

1235
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 1: involve either setting a trap, like an actual physical trap

1236
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 1: like a pit or a tiger pit. Oh, or it

1237
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: might involve some sort of yeah we have buffalo jumps,

1238
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: you have some sort of ambush tactics would be employed,

1239
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: like some way of outsmarting them and using either a

1240
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 1: physical artifice or a strategic artifice against them.

1241
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, so when a human is hunted,

1242
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 2: it's obviously it's some kind of inversion of how things

1243
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 2: are supposed to be. It's a perversion of the divine order.

1244
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 2: We're supposed to hunt, not be hunted. And I wonder

1245
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 2: if there's an idea that, in order to reclaim your

1246
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 2: humanity and your position atop the chain of being, that

1247
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 2: you have to insist on victory by outsmarting this usurping

1248
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 2: hunter figure rather than simply overpowering it.

1249
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that might well be the mythic energy

1250
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: that without warning is tapping into all right, Well, we're

1251
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: reaching the end of our discussion here at this point.

1252
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: If you have not seen the film, you might be wondering, Hey,

1253
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: where can I watch without Warning? Well, as of this recording,

1254
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: I don't believe it's available on any of the major

1255
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: streaming sites, at least in the United States. I couldn't,

1256
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: but it's always worth checking around. Especially I find Amazon

1257
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: Prime to be a great place to find just righteous trash.

1258
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: They have just a wonderful selection of obscure titles.

1259
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, recently they've expanded their Jallo collection and in eye

1260
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 2: popping ways, we watched a movie with Baby Jing Carlo

1261
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 2: Janini in it, The Black Belly of the Tarantula. Have

1262
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:08,920
Speaker 2: you seen that one?

1263
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 1: Oh? I haven't seen that one, but I love that title.

1264
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 2: Oh man, is it is? It is a Jallo lover's Jallo.

1265
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 1: Now, as we mentioned earlier, Shout Factory Scream Factory in

1266
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: Print put out an awesome DVD and blu ray of

1267
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 1: Without Warning back in twenty fourteen. I think it is

1268
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 1: out of print. Maybe it'll go back in print by

1269
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: the time you're listening to this, but that's well worth

1270
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 1: finding a copy of. That is the edition that we

1271
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: both watched in preparation for this episode. Yeah, and hey,

1272
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 1: if you happen to live in Atlanta, you can totally

1273
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:41,879
Speaker 1: rent it at video drone in either format.

1274
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 2: I would highly recommend it. I would say it's like

1275
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 2: all of the Dean Cundi movies. Once again, it might

1276
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 2: be trash, but it's surprisingly watchable.

1277
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 1: All Right, we're going to go and close out the

1278
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 1: episode here, but we want to hear from you. What

1279
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 1: did you think of the film? Did you happen to

1280
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 1: see it back in nineteen eighty. I'm always interested in

1281
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: those accounts, like, Yeah, I saw it on the screen

1282
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 1: in the time that it was speaking to all of

1283
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: the time it was speaking too.

1284
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 2: Did you happen to make it in nineteen eighty? Are

1285
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 2: you great?

1286
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Speaker 1: Yeah? Were you involved in the in the film? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Are you great? On Clark? Are you the ghost of

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01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: Jack Palance writing into us to let us know that

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Speaker 1: you did defeat that alien? It was definitely dead and

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Speaker 1: your character survived for the sequel that we never got

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Speaker 1: to see. We want to know about that as well.

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Speaker 1: Hunter of Core, all right, you know how to get

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Speaker 1: in touch with us, and in the meantime, just wherever

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Speaker 1: you get this podcast, we asked you rate, review, and subscribe.

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Speaker 2: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth

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Speaker 2: Nicholas Johnson. If you'd like to get in touch with us,

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Speaker 2: we don't know how you would do that yet, but

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Speaker 2: maybe there will be a way.

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Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 3: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite show.

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Speaker 5: AST