1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You 2 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat and I am 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: the host. I am a therapist that lives in Nashville. 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: And yes, this podcast is called You Need Therapy. I'm 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: a therapist. But we always like to remind everybody at 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: the beginning that these podcasts do not serve as therapy. 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: They cannot serve as therapy. However, they might lead you 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: to discovering therapy and doing that on your own, or 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: they might lead you to talk about something new in 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: your own therapy process if you already have a therapist. Now, 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: pretty pumped about the episode today because it just so 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: happens that the trajectory of the episodes this past couple 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: of weeks, it's just like literally perfect. And I have 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: to say, I want to take credit and then I 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: did this on purpose, but I didn't, So we're just 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: gonna go with it. And I guess I could have 17 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: lied and said I did, but you know, we we 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: like to keep things real and transparent here. However, last 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: week we talked about closure, and this week we're talking 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: about heartbreak and why it is so tough and how 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: it affects our brain and and why we do get 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: stuck in that place where we just can't find closure. 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: And I had the perfect person to have this conversation with. 24 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: His name is Guy Wench and he is a psychologist 25 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: who has written three and is coming out with a 26 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: fourth self help book. He co hosts a podcast with 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: I guess we had on this past summer Laurie Gottlieb 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: called Dear Therapists, and um, he has multiple TED talks, 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: one which is actually one of my favorite TED Talks, 30 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 1: and it is called how to Fix a Broken Heart, 31 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: which is also the name of one of his books. 32 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: So I'm excited to be able to share with you 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: some of the things that we talked about and just 34 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: kind of get to continue to have this conversation after 35 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: last week when we talked about closure. I hope you 36 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: enjoy it. I hope you get something out of it. 37 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: You can find Guy and all of the things that 38 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: we talk about the show notes. I'll put his website, 39 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: his Ted Talks, all of that stuff, and I hope 40 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: you make it all the way to the end because 41 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: he actually gives a little piece of information about his 42 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: podcast that might be very interesting to you guys. So 43 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: make sure you get all the way to the end 44 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: of the episode to hear that, and if any of 45 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: you guys take him up on his offer, I want 46 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: to know because I'm very jealous. So without wasting any 47 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: more time, let's get straight to it. Here is my 48 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: conversation with Guy Wench. Welcome back to a new episode 49 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: of Union Therapy. I have a really exciting guest for 50 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: you guys that I think will be excited a number 51 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: of ways. One the topic that we're going to talk about, 52 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: but also what he might offer in what he does 53 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 1: and the things that um he has going on as well, 54 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: like his podcast, his books, all of the things his 55 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: ted talks. And that person's name is Guy Wench. So welcome, 56 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. It's great to be with you. 57 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: Of course, So this is a very timely episode because 58 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: in the beginning of the year I did a series 59 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: on attachment theory and then we like deep dived into 60 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: the insecure attachments and I didn't even think about the 61 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: order and way I was doing and what I was doing. 62 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: But it's almost like divine intervention. Last week I did 63 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: an episode on closure, and it was rooted in romantic 64 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: relationships and closure and in that and I think we 65 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: can apply it to different parts of our lives. But 66 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: one thing that I wanted to definitely dive into with 67 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: you was heartbreak and healing it and how to fix 68 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: it and how to move through it. I especially liked 69 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: your Ted talk How to Fix with Heartbreak so good 70 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: and like simple. It's it's like you didn't make it 71 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: too complicated, which I really enjoy. And then you have 72 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: a book as well, so I want to start there 73 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: and see what happens. But I guess what I want 74 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: to open with, and it seems almost like too simple 75 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: of a question. I want you to talk about why 76 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: heartbreak is like so horrible, why it feels so horrible, 77 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: and why something like that we just want to snap 78 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: out of it feels like it can drag on forever 79 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: and ever and ever. First of all, yes, this question 80 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: is simple, but as all things and devoting our psychology, 81 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: the answer is not what happens with heartbreak or what 82 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: really attracted me to the topic to do the deeper 83 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: dips that I've done on it with the Ted talk 84 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: and the book, et cetera, is that there is no 85 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: other experience we have as humans in which you can 86 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: take somebody with no psychiatric history whatsoever, and within an 87 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: instant make them act and feel completely crazy. It's a 88 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: form of grief. That's what makes it so painful. But 89 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: unlike regular grief, when we lose someone, the person is 90 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: still around number one and number two, we therefore feel 91 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: incredibly rejected. The other thing I want to tell you 92 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: about the emotional pain part of things is that scientists 93 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: did studies functional mright studies brain scare in which you 94 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: lie in the tube. And this is the one of 95 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: the studies that they did. It's gonna sound horrific because 96 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: it was horrific, but the study was this. They asked 97 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: for people who have been recently heartbroken, put them in 98 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: an m R two, which is just really tiny tube. 99 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: It's like inches from your face, had them put the 100 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: picture of the person who person who broke their heart 101 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: on the top so they're staring at it, and then 102 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: had them relived the breakup while the brain scanner was 103 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: looking at what was happening in their brain, and it 104 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: looked at the emotional pain they were feeling. And then 105 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: they compared that pain to physical pain. The physical pain 106 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: condition was put a heat inducer on someone's arm and 107 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: turn up the heat until they can't stand it for 108 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: more than seven seconds or two to get to seven seconds. 109 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: And so if ten is the highest number there, the 110 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: number that was equivalent to what was happening in the 111 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: brain and heartbreak was eight, like almost unbearable physical pain 112 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: was the equivalent of the emotional pain that people were in. 113 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: And to remind you, when you're heartbroken for way longer 114 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: than seven seconds. Yeah, I like how you said. Um, 115 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: it's an experience like in an instant can make you, 116 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: like I feel crazy but also like sometimes act crazy 117 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: and I hate using that word, but it fits. Yeah, 118 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: And um, I have had experiences where I remember there 119 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: was one specific breakup. It wasn't even that long of 120 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: a relationship, was under a year, but I remember sitting 121 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: and being like, I feel like my I'm dying like it. 122 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to describe it, but I was 123 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: just like, it's pain in my whole body. And then 124 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: I did some crazy things, like I did some things 125 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: that outside of that never would have done. And and 126 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: I hear stories, and I mean, I'm a therapist, so 127 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: and I'm and you hear these stories as well as 128 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: I hear stories of clients who normally I'm like you 129 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: you're good to go, and then they go through this 130 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: experience and they're telling me all these things that they've done, 131 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my gosh, if you were yourself 132 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: a week ago watching us, you would be saying some 133 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: horrible things about that person. And so I guess the 134 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: physical pain is a good addition to like, why is 135 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: it so hard? But is that why we're acting that 136 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: way because we want to get rid of that excruciating 137 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: pain that were we like, are out of our minds? No, 138 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: that's not what we're acting that way. Why we're acting 139 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: that way? And back to the brain scans we go, 140 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,559 Speaker 1: is that the other thing that happens in the brain 141 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: that we see with heartbroken people, is that the same 142 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: mechanisms in the brain that get activated when literally heroin 143 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: addicts are withdrawing from heroin are getting activated when we 144 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: are quote unquote withdrawing from the drug of the love 145 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: and the person that we've lost. There was even some debate, 146 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: and you know that I just saw that and it 147 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: wasn't official, but there's some debate among researchers about what 148 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: the love should be classified as a form of addiction 149 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: in certain ways, because the withdrawal of it the heartbreak 150 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: really looks like what you look like when you're withdrawing 151 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: physically emopioids. Well, and that's a really good picture, and 152 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: I think a really good comparison because we've talked a 153 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: lot about addiction, like chemical addiction on here, and one 154 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: of the shows that I hear over and over people 155 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: talking about is um Euphoria. Have you watched it? The same? Okay? 156 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: So yeah here. I finally was like, okay, I'm just 157 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: going to watch it and I'm not done with it. 158 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: But it's a really good picture. And with the did 159 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: you ever watch Dope Sick that came out in the 160 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: last year too? Okay, Okay, that's okay, that's actually a 161 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: true story. But it's also a really good picture of 162 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: watching somebody who is like a good person, right, like 163 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: you would never look at this person and demonize them 164 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: or think that they're crazy or anything that, but they 165 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: get addicted to these drugs and then they start acting 166 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: in ways that are so outside of their character. And 167 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: I really like it because it shows that like addicts 168 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: aren't we can't classify them as bad people because they're 169 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: not at their core bad people. I have this like 170 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: voice in my head that's saying like the crazy girlfriend 171 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: or the crazy ex boyfriend or the crazy ex, It's 172 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: like they're not bad people. They're going through something that 173 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: they don't really know what to do with, and they almost, 174 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: like an addict, would do anything to stop the pain 175 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: of withdraw. And if you've never felt that, then you 176 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: don't really understand, like, really, how can it be that bad? 177 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,599 Speaker 1: But if if you're somebody who has had your heartbroken, 178 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: and you can flip flop those comparisons, like we all 179 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: have done things that were like that was not me right, 180 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: But the way I classify it and I read with 181 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: you entirely, these are not bad people. The world I've 182 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: used to describe them, both the heartbroken and the addicts 183 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: is desperate, is a desperate yeah? Desperate? Yeah, desperate for 184 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: like relief exactly yea from Okay, So I guess with 185 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: that same idea with it if going with the experiencing 186 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: heartbreak is almost like going through like withdraw, I kind 187 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: of like, I feel like I know what you're gonna say, 188 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: but I want to talk about this is if we 189 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: use that example of addiction, let's say your heroin addict. Well, 190 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: I would say to the heroin addict. We need to 191 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: get you off of this drug, so we need to 192 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: put you in D talk and you're never going to 193 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: use this again. As the hope with love. If love 194 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: is the addiction and heartbreak is the withdraw what does 195 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: that process supposed to look like, Because yeah, we need 196 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: you to go through the withdrawn dtalks, but eventually I 197 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: would hope that they can have a relationship again. So 198 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: I guess I'm asking two questions here. One, what do 199 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: you recommend people do to help them get through the 200 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: withdraw face faster? And then after that I want to 201 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: kind of go into like, well, when is it okay 202 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: to like get back out there. First of all, I'll 203 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: say that I think I believe in the no contact rule, 204 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: not just because that's the drug and you want to 205 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: get off the drug, but because your goal when you're 206 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: recovering from heartbreak is in my mind, one goal, and 207 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: that goal is reduce the presence of that person in 208 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: your sort and to the extent that you can do 209 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: that more and more and more, then you're getting over them. 210 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 1: It's at the beginning that you can't not think about them. 211 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: That's all you're thinking about, you know, etcetera. So that's 212 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: the problem at the beginning, and then the more you 213 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: want to get them out of your thoughts the better. 214 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: So to that end, the no contact rule is really 215 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: important because you want to not reinforce. You know. It's 216 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: like if you're trying to quit smoking, it's not a 217 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: great idea to take a puff every once in a while. 218 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: You'll just increase the cravings all over again. But one 219 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: of the things that's interesting to me, because I do 220 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: so much work with heartbreak, is that the majority, the 221 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: vast majority of times, not well, not even the last majority, 222 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: but so so often when people are no longer in 223 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: love with that person, when they're truly over the heartbreak, 224 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: they look back on that person and they go, oh, wow, 225 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: why was I so intensely desperate for that person? I'm 226 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: not even that impressed with them right now. Yeah. Wait, 227 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: so I wonder what what that is in your mind? 228 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: Like why we can be so tessed with the person 229 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: and like, I think I lost the love of my life. 230 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I've had that experience, and then a year later, 231 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: or however long later it takes, you're like, I have 232 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: no idea what I was thinking. Look, that goes back 233 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: to the debate about how much of love is really 234 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: addiction in that kind of thing. But what we fall 235 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: in love with is in part the person, But in 236 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,239 Speaker 1: part what we fall in love with is the relationship 237 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: and just having someone. In part what we fall in 238 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: love with is this idea that I don't have to 239 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: be out there and dating. I found my person. I 240 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: feel better in this couplehoods, so I feel relieved in 241 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: terms of that. There's a lot of aspects to this 242 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: which are actually not that personal to who the person is. 243 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: A lot of the times when people are really heartbroken 244 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: and we talked about it in these sessions, it's like, really, 245 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: what they missed tremendously is the idea of the love 246 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: in the relationship rather than that specific stand in for 247 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: who that would be. Oh yeah, the idea and also 248 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: like this like storybook future telling situation of like what 249 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: our life will be. Because there it's like they think 250 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: they're just like grieving the loss of this human being. 251 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: But I so agree with that. A lot of times 252 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: it's like they're grieving the fact that they don't know 253 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: when they're going to get married, or that they have 254 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: to get up back out there and if they want 255 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: to get married, they have to find that again, or 256 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: the house you were going to live in, or the 257 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: trips you were going to take. It's like this future 258 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: and it's really those things could happen with a million 259 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: different people, but that's the person. Okay, So here's the 260 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: other thing, the no contact thing. I think it's great. 261 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on people who remain friends. Do 262 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: you think that that is almost like a disaster waiting 263 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 1: to happen, or well, do you really remain friends? Not 264 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: the words the person who did the breaking up might 265 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: be like, well, I don't hate that person, happy to 266 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: be friends with them, but if you're but if you're 267 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: the person who's heartbroken, they don't trying to get over 268 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: that person. What I say to to the people I 269 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: work with is you cannot be friends with them right 270 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: now because you are not seeing them in any kind 271 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: of objective lens. You are just saying to yourself, well, 272 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: I want to remain friends because that's your way of 273 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: getting a fixed, that's your way of staying around so 274 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: that maybe they'll come to the senses and realize the 275 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: mistaken that they love me after all, etcetera. I always 276 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: say that people take a break for six months after 277 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: six months if you're truly over them, and hopefully you are. 278 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: Some people will take longer, depending on the relationship. But 279 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: if at that point, once you're no longer heartbroken, once 280 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: you're over them, if then you want to be friends, 281 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: by all means reach out and a lot of people say, 282 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: I fine, I'll do that, And again, most of them 283 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: don't feel the need to reach out once they don't 284 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: want to be friends. So yeah, it's like keeping them 285 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: in proximity of like, I really just want to be 286 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: their friend because I'm hoping they're going to change their 287 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: mind or something's going to happen and I'm going to 288 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: get my fairy tale again. The other thing is like 289 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: with the no contact, what makes that I think more 290 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: difficult now? And I wonder if you feel the same. 291 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: Is this the social media aspect of Normally you break 292 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: up with somebody and you can avoid them if you 293 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: want to for the most part, I mean, you might 294 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: run into them if you live in the same town 295 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: or you go the same school, we're in a similar place. 296 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: But now it's like, well, we can see what they're 297 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: doing almost every day if we want to. And so 298 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: with a no contact I'm assuming you're like block them 299 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: on friend them, all of that deleted. Well, first of all, 300 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: my question to people, why would you want to because 301 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to explain to people is that they 302 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: didn't break up with you, hopefully on a whim. It's 303 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: not that that they broke up Tuesday morning. You know what, 304 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: maybe not when they break up, they've been thinking about 305 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: it for a long time. I e. They are much 306 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: further along in the process of detaching and rebuilding their 307 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: lives than you are. So what you're going to see 308 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: is someone who's in a much better place than you are. 309 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: And all that's gonna read to you is like, Wow, 310 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: they seem so happy and I'm so miserable. That's so unfair, 311 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: how calm? You know? So nothing good really comes out 312 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: of it. But it's really complicated in fact, because yes, 313 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: you shouldn't you should block it and and follow and all 314 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: of that. The problem is the longer the relationship to 315 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: more intertwined our lives, you're gonna unblock and follow the 316 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: cousin who might post pictures of them and updates of 317 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: them because they were at the same party, or the 318 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: friend of the friend who bumped into them. You can't. 319 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: So you end up having to block on a lot 320 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: of people, and even then you might things might get through. Um. 321 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: And what I alway sometimes say to people is like, 322 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: maybe take a break from social media then for a bit, 323 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: since you need to rebuild your life anyway. And I 324 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: don't mean on social media, I mean in real life. 325 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: Maybe that's what I did, to take a break from 326 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: social media and focus on getting in touch with friends, 327 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: getting in touch with helpies, getting in touch with you know, 328 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: activities that you dropped because you compromised, redecorating your apartment, etcetera. 329 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: Maybe that's the focus at the beginning. Yeah, I didn't 330 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: even think about that of like, think you've done you know, 331 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: damage control by on following this person and you open 332 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: up your phone and there's a picture of them with 333 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: your group of friends or their cousin somebody ran down 334 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: that you forgot you and followed, and it gives you 335 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: almost gives you the hit accidentally, h That happens a 336 00:16:52,920 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: lot going along that a idea, Then what do you say, well, 337 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: how would you categorize when it's okay to like get 338 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: back out there. And I kind of want to ask, 339 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: like your opinion on this idea of like the rebound 340 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: idea of should you go out and get out there 341 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: fast as you can to get somebody else in your brain, 342 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: or is it okay to just like go out and 343 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: have fun and data around or should we be waiting 344 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: until certain feelings have totally subsided. I have a very 345 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: unscientific criteria, so when you are okay to go on 346 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: dates again, And basically what I say to people is like, 347 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: if you can get through the date without crying and 348 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: without talking about your X, try it now? Can I 349 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: say try it? I mean some people feel like maybe 350 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: I can do that, and then they end up bust 351 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: against it. Tear isn't talking about the X and turns 352 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: out and you know what's ready, But we do know 353 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: that the sooner you can get back out there. It 354 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: usually is associated with the speedio recovery because you're trying 355 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: to remind yourself there are the people who might be interested, 356 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: even if you're not very emotionally available. And sometimes people 357 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: will meet someone and they go, you know, I know 358 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: the nice I know that, but I'm just so not 359 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: in the place to be interested in somebody right now. 360 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: And what I say is and then tell them you're 361 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: recently in the relationship and you want to take it 362 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: slowly because you like them, but you need to take 363 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: it slowly. And if they're okay with that, then take 364 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: it slowly and they'll probably grow on you. But the 365 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: idea is if you're not out there and you don't 366 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: have to go out there the next day, obviously, etcetera. 367 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: But it is a good reminder because it reminds you 368 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: of your worth. It reminds you that you're appealing to people, 369 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: that people are interested in being out with you. It 370 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: gets you out of the house. It's a good distraction. Again, 371 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: if it's too soon, it'll just fill you with sadness. 372 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: And then if the idea feels you with sadness, it's 373 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: too soon obviously. But that's what I suggest. If you 374 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: think you can get through it, start doing it a 375 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: little bit. And that speaks to this idea that I like, 376 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: really hate that our culture has really clung onto. It's 377 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: the idea of this like one soul mate that we have. 378 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: And I like what you said around like, it's going 379 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: to remind you that there's other people out there that 380 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: you might be able to have a tinge of a 381 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: feeling for because I I what I hear a lot 382 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: in my work is like I've lost my person, like 383 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: I've lost my literal soul mate. That was the one 384 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: that God created for me, and now there's no point 385 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: and any anybody else, just like I would not suffice. 386 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: And I believe that they really believe that for at 387 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: that time. And I also believe that if they were 388 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: to experience other people, they would realize that they can, 389 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: like now that their if their minds were open to 390 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: it other people. So even if you have like a 391 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: like little bit of a feeling towards somebody, it kind 392 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: of gets those wheels turning. But look, my response to 393 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: hear this all the time, right, this was my one 394 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: soul made, This was the one God chose to me. 395 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: And I always say things like, if that's what the 396 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: one God chose for you, they would want you to 397 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: and it would be this happy lead after By definition, 398 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 1: it's not by definition, it's not your soul made, because 399 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: your cell make would be somebody would be there with 400 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: you forever. By definition, this is not that person number 401 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,239 Speaker 1: one and number two, you know. Just the evidence is 402 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: the reality is that people can fall in love with 403 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: multiple people in their lives and feel, you know, very 404 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: very strongly about each one. What this idea of a 405 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: soul made is is, it's just, to be very blunt 406 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: about it, it's it's a result of the pain that 407 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: people are in and the feeling they're in of hopelessness, 408 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: because grieving again brings up feelings of helplessness and of hopelessness. 409 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: And when we're feeling helpless and when we're feeling hopeless, 410 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: feel like I we'll never find someone. So the thought 411 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: of hurting again is so difficult. Let me just kind 412 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: of assume that, you know, this was my one shot, 413 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: and I often excuse myself from having to really will 414 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: on recovery. There are some very rare love stories where 415 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: this was Look, if you've been with your soul mate 416 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: for thirty years and then something happened you at the 417 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: thirty year run, that's amazing. But it's absolutely there's no 418 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: scientific foundation to assume that we only fall in love 419 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: with one person um in life and we're incapable of 420 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: fall in love with another or finding another one worthy 421 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: of that not. That's just not true. Yeah, And I 422 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: was just this morning, I went and I got my 423 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: hair done. I was talking to my stylist about we're 424 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: both talking about friends and people that we've experienced this 425 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: with and then you are probably have this in your 426 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: life and then also in your work life of individuals 427 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: who have these relationships they don't work out, and they 428 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: want to process it with you as a friend or 429 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: as a professional. This happens in both those areas. They 430 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: want to process this break up with you, and it 431 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: turns into this like cyclical conversation where you have the 432 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: conversation and then they get to this point and they're like, Okay, 433 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: they kind of hear what you're saying, but they kind 434 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: of asked the questions that they're asking like fifteen different ways, 435 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: and I like what you said. I'm just going to 436 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: be very blunt like I liked you. You know, this 437 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: is not your soul mate, else they would be with you. 438 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: But my question is with those people, I've had an 439 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: experience where one I've done this a lot with clients, 440 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: but with a friend. At one point, I said, you know, 441 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: we've had this conversation about fifty times spine now and 442 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: you keep asking a different version of the same question 443 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: to me, and I keep giving you the same answer. 444 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: So my experience is telling me that you don't want 445 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: to hear the answer. So I don't think I'm the 446 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: person that you want to talk to right now, And 447 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: I I personally don't want to keep having this conversation 448 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: until you're ready to have this conversation. And what I 449 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: want to know is like for you, when you are 450 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: being blunt and like giving that like hard like not 451 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: tough love, but like truthful feedback to somebody who was 452 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: like in excruciating pain and playing this tape over and 453 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: over in their head, when do you decide or is 454 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: that even a thought in your head? But when do 455 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: you decide when to say, like, hey, open your eyes, 456 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: this is what's going on right now. And how long 457 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: do you let people be almost in this denial period. 458 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: I'm quite impatient when it comes okay, I'll be I'll 459 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: be you know, honest and blunt. Again. Look, what I 460 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: say to people is that I'm impatient at the second 461 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: time that we're having the same conversation, why are we 462 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: having it to you? And so literally it's certainly if 463 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: it's a you know, if it's if it's somebody working with, 464 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: but also if it's a friend, I'll be very compassionate 465 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: and i'll be you know, saying look, I'm really really sorry, 466 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: and I know that you're really, really hurting, But these 467 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: questions that you're asking are really ruminations. They're really obsessive 468 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: thoughts that you're just spinning around in an emotional hams 469 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: to you. And the problem with them, I would say 470 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: to them, is that each time you go through that 471 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: questioning and the pondering and all of that, it actually 472 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: reactivates the pain and the loss and the distress that 473 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: you're feeling, which would be okay if you've got something 474 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: out of it, like a new insight, like some action plans, 475 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: like a different perspective on the situation. But the way 476 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: you're going about asking these questions, you're not gaining anything new. 477 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,239 Speaker 1: You're just like you know, stuck in this groove and 478 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: deepening the groove and going around and around in painful circles. 479 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: I personally don't want to participate in it because I 480 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: don't think it's useful for you. Well, I love that, 481 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: and I think I might start to use that more often. 482 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: You said in your TED talk is that one of 483 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: the reasons that like we can't accept like really closure, 484 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: and we can't accept the answers, like the reason why 485 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: somebody might have broken up with us, the reason that 486 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: we can't accept this is because that pain hurts so bad. 487 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: And sometimes the reason somebody broke up with us, it's 488 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: just kind of simple. It's just like I don't feel 489 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: the same way anymore. It's not sometimes, it's it's all 490 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: the time. It's it's almost all the time. That very 491 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: few times that somebody will I broke up with you 492 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: because truly I'm an international spy, and now I don't 493 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 1: want to put that doesn't happen never. It's always because 494 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, there were commitment issues, this person drifted emotionally, 495 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: the timing wasn't right, the compatibility wasn't there. And what 496 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: I say that is that when you're feeling such dramatic pain, 497 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: you want to think that there was as dramatic a 498 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: story behind that pain, as opposed to the person kind 499 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: of drifted the mostly and just fell out of love. 500 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: And so they waited a bit and then just ended 501 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: the relationship. So unsatisfying, so unsexy, so undramatic. That's what's 502 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: causing me all this pain. That and I can't do 503 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: anything about it, Yes that unfortunately, Yeah, And I mean 504 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: I don't want that either, But it's like it is 505 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: what it is, and we can't change reality, you know. 506 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: But what we do need to do is to accept 507 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: the reason because the closure there is important to us. 508 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: And other words, it is important to us to be 509 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: able to close the book on the why. The why 510 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: really has a slingering in in in hellish limbo in 511 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: a way that we should not because it's not useful. 512 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: And so what I say to people is, first of all, 513 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: people say like, well, I don't really know the real 514 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: reason why, And I'm like, well, you know, really, God forbid, 515 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: you should know the real reason why. It's not appealing. 516 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: You want somebody to tell you every little fault and 517 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: pet peep they have with you? Who wants that? It's 518 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: not necessary And it's just all it adds up to 519 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: is I don't love you anymore. That's the bottom line. 520 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: They don't love you anymore. And the minute you can 521 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: accept that, and if you want to put a rationale 522 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: on it, like well, they drifted emotionally and didn't tell me. 523 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: That wasn't fair and they didn't give us a chance 524 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: fair enough on that one, or they have commitment issue 525 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: us fair enough on that one, or the timing compatibly 526 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: something great, But close the book on the why it's 527 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: holding it back. Yeah, okay, So what are some tangible 528 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: things we can kind of leave people with that are 529 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: like struggling with this. Maybe in the moment of I'm 530 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: feeling like extremely like stuck in the mud of this, 531 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: I hear that it should be a clean break. Maybe 532 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: they're going to go clean their Instagram followers out. But 533 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: what are some other things that might be helpful for 534 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: these people to stop the rumin nation and stop the 535 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: asking of the questions and living in that limbo. Okay, 536 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: so first of all, I I do not just mention 537 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: that you know, in in my podcast The Therapists, I'm 538 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: to the podcast with with Laurie Gottlieb, we deal with heartbreak. 539 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: We deal with a lot of these kind of loss 540 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: and grief issues and be very tangible homeworks to people 541 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: at the end of every episode that they then have 542 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: to do and report back how it went. So it's 543 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: kind of that kind of advice show where you actually 544 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: find out what happens, which was always my pet peep 545 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: with advice and the other thing I just want to 546 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: point out, I I know Laurie was on the show, 547 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: I'm not sure she pointed this out, is that what 548 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,479 Speaker 1: makes it chat mudging for us as therapist is that 549 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: we choose a letter together, but we don't discuss it, 550 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: and then we do conjoint therapy live with a person 551 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: when I have no idea what already's thinking, she has 552 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: no idea what I'm thinking. I don't know where she 553 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: wants to go, she doesn't know where I want to go, 554 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: and it's all live. So it's a high wire activity. 555 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: You guys argue. We don't argue because I can see 556 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: when she's asking these questions where she might be going. 557 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: She consue where I might be going, and I might 558 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: be like, Okay, you know, that's a good direction, let's 559 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: go with that, or vice versa. So that's interesting. We 560 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: don't know it, but yeah, it is a little bit. 561 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: It's quite challenging for us. But but we thought that 562 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: would have more like, you know, drama in it, but 563 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: she does, you know, and it just keeps it a 564 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: little bit more alive. But that aside. The main thing 565 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: you have to do is that there's a real rebuild 566 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: that goes on after you have a break up. You 567 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: go from a weed to an eye. Uman you suddenly 568 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: have all your weekends, you know, planned because even if 569 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: you're not doing anything. You have a person to not 570 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: do anything with. You have to change your physical environment. 571 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: You have to redefine who you are now as a 572 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: single person. Are you going back to who you work 573 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: before the relationship? Are you reinventing because it's been a 574 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: long time one of the things that you adopted, the habits, 575 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: the friends, this lifestyles that you adopted during the relationship, 576 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: do you want to keep which do you want to discard? 577 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: What compromises you made that were worthwhile? Which not? If 578 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: you want to go back to all that is a 579 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: very intentional thought process of how do I rebuild my life? 580 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: How do I fill the voids both physically emotionally socially 581 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: that this breakup left. And it's with that intentionality that 582 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: it gives you action that you can take. It gives 583 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: you things to actually figure out and do. Which is 584 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: the path to healing from heartbreak rather than the stewing 585 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: and the lamenting. Yeah, the thoughts in the thinking and 586 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: the rumination isn't going to pull you out of anything, 587 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: but the action and experimenting and going out and literally 588 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 1: building your life. I really like that, and that can 589 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: be in a billion different ways. It sounds like it 590 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: can be with hobbies, it can be with like new routines. 591 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: It can be experiencing new places you never went or 592 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: making new friends, and that can be exciting. Like I 593 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: think that what people might have a hard time with 594 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: in the like deep depression of heartbreak is that things 595 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: don't feel like they can be exciting anymore. But there's 596 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: all this newness out there. And in the episode last 597 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: week that I did about closure, kind of what I 598 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: ended with and it was kind of like a full 599 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: circle of my thought process. But I what I ended 600 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: with is I think that sometimes it's not so much 601 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: just like tangible closure that we really need. Sometimes it's 602 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: like a piece of hope, not that that relationship is 603 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: going to come back around, but hope that your life 604 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: can be good again, and your life will be good again, 605 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: because that's I think something that we kind of just 606 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: lose sight of. I agree. I'll just to say one 607 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: thing about that. I say to people about that, the 608 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: same thing I say to parents of a newborn. And 609 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: you'll be like, really, because how are they similar? And and 610 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: and here's here's what I say. I still in the 611 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: parents of the new born, once a week, have a 612 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: date night, leave the house, even it's for an hour, 613 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: and do something. And then I say to them, you 614 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: are not going to enjoy it. You're gonna be too tired, 615 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: too overwhelmed, and too worried about the baby to enjoy it. 616 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: But do it anyway. The enjoyment will catch up with you. 617 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: And it's the same to heartbreak. Find that thing. It's 618 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: not going to be that interesting or exciting at the beginning. 619 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: But if it just is something you could tolerate and 620 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: you know theoretically that it's something you would be interested 621 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: in the interest, the excitement will come. But they will 622 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: come more quickly if you keep doing it and putting 623 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: yourself in those situations. Again, not when you're in that 624 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: situation and crying your eyes out, no no, no, too soon, 625 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: but thereafter, do it even before the big emotional is there, 626 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: because that will take time. But putting yourself in those 627 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: situations will accelerate the recovery. Well. It's also like giving 628 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: agency back like that is just it's like empowering that, 629 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: like I don't have to sit here and like wallow 630 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: in my bed for the rest of my life and 631 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: wait for the healing to come. I'm sure you hear 632 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: all the time like when is it going to feel better? 633 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: When is it going to feel better? When is it 634 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: going to feel better? And kind of what I'm hearing 635 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: you say, it's like, I don't know exactly when it's 636 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: going to feel better, but we can speed that process 637 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: up if you like put some action into it, and 638 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: you have power in creating that better feeling. You don't 639 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,959 Speaker 1: have to just wait for it to walk through your 640 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: front door. Absolutely right. I said to people, I don't 641 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: know when it will feel better, but I know what 642 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: you can do that will make it feel better sooner. Yeah, yeah, 643 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: I love that. So I want to kind of just 644 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: like wrap up in that idea that like, if you 645 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: are somebody who is just like in the depths of this, 646 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: like something that I want you to hear is that, Yeah, 647 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: we can't prescribe you on this time, this day, this 648 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: place you're gonna snap out of this, but we can 649 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: offer you the fact that you can start creating agency 650 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: and power and change today. That can happen today. So 651 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: before we say goodbye, is there anything you want to 652 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: shout out? I know you mentioned your your podcast, which 653 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: I like, did not know that part about it that 654 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: you didn't know it was that's so interesting. It suddenly 655 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: gives you a whole different way to listen to it. 656 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: You're like, oh, wow, they're trying to figure it out 657 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: as they're doing it. We have no idea, just like 658 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: the anxiety that I would have, like forget about if 659 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: you didn't have a plan going in, because that's kind 660 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: of how we have to We have to be able 661 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: to go with the flow in general, but to have 662 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: somebody else where you're like, we gotta, you know, get 663 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: in line at some point, right and we don't pause 664 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: to kind of like figure out what we're doing. We 665 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: have to figure it out live as we're there. So yeah, 666 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: that's do you do it in person or is it well, 667 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: Laurie's on the West Coast, some of these we do it, 668 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: but we do it over zoom. We don't show the people, 669 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, but we changed their names. But we need 670 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: them because just in cuse in terms of when people 671 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: are talking, and sometimes a couple or two people, so 672 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: we do need that. But no, but that's why it 673 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: feels like a life session because it's it is and 674 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: it's and it's one way you really you know, so 675 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: it's interesting. You need to shout out I will I 676 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: have is that my website, guy Winch dot com has 677 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: links to my three Ted talks, to three books. There 678 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: was another one hopefully along the way that you can 679 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: find out about, and to a lot of other just 680 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: resources of written hundreds of articles which to help people 681 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: will find interesting. Um, I write for Ted and I 682 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: write for other places, and so just guy Winch dot com, 683 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: guy w I n C. H okay amazing. And then 684 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: on Instagram is your handle dress at guy Winch at 685 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: guy Winch on Instagram, at guy Winch on Twitter, linked 686 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: in guy Winch author on Facebook. But those links are 687 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: again in my We'll put all those also in the 688 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: show notes too so people can get right to that. 689 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: And the good news is that we are still taking 690 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: season three of their therapists. And if anyone the listeners 691 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: wants to be a guest on our show and get 692 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: this life therapy from both of us again, with your 693 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,120 Speaker 1: name changed and everything right to Lori and Guy at 694 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: I heart media dot com. That's l O R I 695 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: A N D g U y at I heart media 696 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: dot com. Just you know, like charging fifty worlds or something. 697 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: Tell us what's going on, what's the problem, what you 698 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: need help with? And we would love for you to 699 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: be a guest on the show. Oh I love that. 700 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: I wish I could be a guest on the show. 701 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: And it's like essentially free therapy session, right, Okay, you 702 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 1: guys jump on it because that is not a cheap 703 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: thing to come by and it's very valuable. All right, Well, 704 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: thank you so much. You're very welcome. Great talking to you, 705 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: and have a great weekend yourself, you do. Bye bye,