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Speaker 1: I feel like I did a whole interview already. What's

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Speaker 1: the way up with you? And Cheryl McKissick.

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Speaker 2: Daniel is here with me. You know her as the

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Speaker 2: CEO of Meckisic and Meckisic. Thank you for joining me today.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to be here with you, Angela.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to have you.

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Speaker 2: I could just talk to you about other things too,

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Speaker 2: And I want to say, you have a book out

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Speaker 2: right now, and I read this whole book, The Black

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Speaker 2: Family Who Built America. You know, real estate is fascinating

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Speaker 2: to me, but even from the development side, I love

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Speaker 2: the way.

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Speaker 1: That you're able to tell this story and it gave

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Speaker 1: me like such.

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Speaker 2: A nice inside view on the work that you've done

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Speaker 2: because I know you, but now I really know you

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Speaker 2: and I know your whole family now I feel like

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Speaker 2: for reading this book.

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Speaker 1: So how do you feel now that the book is out?

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Speaker 4: I feel like I have finally accomplished something I've been

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Speaker 4: working on for over twenty years to get this story

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Speaker 4: out because so many people just don't know who the

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Speaker 4: mckisics are, and so many people people don't even think

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Speaker 4: about who built the structure that they're sitting there in right now,

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Speaker 4: or that they go through on a regular basis. You know,

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Speaker 4: even just the train stations in Manhattan or the airports

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Speaker 4: or the schools universities.

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Speaker 3: People don't ever think about, well, who built this.

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Speaker 1: Or that a black woman could be behind that.

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Speaker 4: A black woman could be behind it. So I'm excited

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Speaker 4: about getting that general information out and bringing awareness to

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Speaker 4: our industry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you are a fifth generation business, which is such

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Speaker 2: a rarity in any race, no matter who you are, right,

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Speaker 2: that is not something that happens too frequently. And as

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Speaker 2: I'm reading this, I'm just thinking about how you were

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Speaker 2: raised into the family business. And I was reading it

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Speaker 2: and thinking, like, man, if I would have been exposed

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Speaker 2: to certain things at a younger age, maybe I would

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Speaker 2: have wanted to be a developer or an architect if

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Speaker 2: that was something that I had known when I was

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Speaker 2: a kid.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes if you don't see that, you don't think

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Speaker 2: it's even possible true.

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Speaker 4: And that's another thing that this book is doing, is

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Speaker 4: letting other people know that this is an option as

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Speaker 4: far as a career path and an industry. Now, I mean,

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Speaker 4: you're quite successful in entertainment, so I do right, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure you want to consider that now.

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Speaker 2: But you know, because I was reading this and I

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Speaker 2: was like, I already got my real estate license, as

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Speaker 2: you know, and then I already was like, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to get my GC license because I see some of

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Speaker 2: these gcs and I'm like, I could definitely do that

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Speaker 2: because I feel like I had a GC and I

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Speaker 2: felt like I had to tell him stuff. Oh right,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, because sometimes they just sub

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Speaker 2: things out and not all of them, obviously there's some

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Speaker 2: good ones. But I feel like CERTA people are look

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Speaker 2: at it and I'm like, they could do it.

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Speaker 1: I could do it.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's true, I mean, yes, but you got to

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Speaker 4: stay on top of general contract.

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Speaker 1: Yes you did.

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Speaker 3: It's a tough business in New.

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Speaker 4: York City, and there are a lot of regulations, and

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Speaker 4: you know, it seems like they're changing every day. The

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Speaker 4: new creeps up that you know you need to know

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Speaker 4: about as a business person. But you know, I'm excited

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Speaker 4: about this business. It's it's in my blood. I've been

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Speaker 4: doing it for god knows how long since I started

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Speaker 4: walking construction sites as a little girl with my father.

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Speaker 3: Back then, it was all about.

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Speaker 2: The boys right now and even today, right, there's still

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Speaker 2: times when you can be in a space and be

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Speaker 2: like not just one of few women, but maybe sometimes

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Speaker 2: the only black women.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, the only woman.

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Speaker 4: Definitely the only black woman, no doubt about that. I

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Speaker 4: mean that early on in New York City, going to

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Speaker 4: any of our trade association galas and dinners and things

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Speaker 4: like that is just see of suits. You know, you

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Speaker 4: just you just didn't see any any women or people

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Speaker 4: of color in those places. I have to say it's

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Speaker 4: it's getting better now. A lot of the MWBE Minority

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Speaker 4: women owned business programs that the current iministration is trying

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Speaker 4: to do away with, they have been very helpful for

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Speaker 4: a lot of these businesses. I mean, over the years,

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Speaker 4: I have seen the percentages of the requirements on these

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Speaker 4: contracts grow from like five percent to like almost fifty

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Speaker 4: percent right now.

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Speaker 2: And you're working on JFK, right, Terminal one is terminal one,

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Speaker 2: terminal one. So when it comes to mwbs, what is

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Speaker 2: the requirement there for a terminal one? Because I know

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Speaker 2: that's something that intentionally you have to be like, okay,

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Speaker 2: we need to have some type of you know, representation here.

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Speaker 4: Yes, So the client is the poor Authority of New

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Speaker 4: York and they have a goal on the owners of

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Speaker 4: thirty percent.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but as you know, the owners.

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Speaker 4: Are well, they work Carlisle Group, but now they sold

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Speaker 4: to Parrovio. But we also have Jim Rentals from Luke

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Speaker 4: Capitol and Magic Johnson, and so Jim and Magic both

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Speaker 4: have said, oh, that's our floor.

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Speaker 3: We gotta to do. That's a minimum, a minimum of

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Speaker 3: thirty percent. And I'm glad to say that.

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Speaker 4: You know, we have the participation of four hundred and

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Speaker 4: fifty minority and women owned businesses and we have a

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Speaker 4: spend of over a billion dollars at this point. And

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Speaker 4: you know that is because the owners have made sure

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Speaker 4: that we do that, you know, because there's so many loopholes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are, right, and we think about mwbees that

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Speaker 2: also like for women. And I've learned this just from

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Speaker 2: you know, getting part of the program as well. But

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Speaker 2: a lot of times I've read that, like you know,

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Speaker 2: white men will have their wives get an MWB daughters, yeah, daughters,

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Speaker 2: family members, yes, and so that's kind of a way

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Speaker 2: for them to slide into that program and keep it

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Speaker 2: in the family.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that is true. And the real legitimate women owned businesses.

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Speaker 3: They don't like that either.

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Speaker 4: They don't want to see that happen because then there's

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Speaker 4: a stigma out there about them.

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Speaker 1: Right. People look at you like, are.

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Speaker 4: Are you really certified or not? But it is another way,

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Speaker 4: because more than fifty percent of the minority women own

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Speaker 4: business goes to the white woman designation.

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Speaker 2: Right, And so they act like it's all these black

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Speaker 2: people getting things, but it's really helping them.

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Speaker 1: And then it's even helping us exactly.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yes, one thing I.

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Speaker 2: Want to say too, and you know in the book

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Speaker 2: you gloss over relationship things, right, we need to show

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Speaker 2: them a kissack Daniel's Relationship book because listen, I know

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Speaker 2: things are good now, but you went through a lot

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Speaker 2: when it came to relationships. And I wonder if sometimes

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Speaker 2: being a powerful woman and coming from a powerful family

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Speaker 2: can be intimidating to a man.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, it can definitely be intimidating, especially when your circle

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Speaker 4: is full of men. Construction is basically a man's world.

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Speaker 4: So most of the clients and you know, partners that

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Speaker 4: I have are men, and so that is intimidating, uh

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Speaker 4: to your husband or to your mate or whoever you're with.

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Speaker 4: But I've had some strong some strong men who were

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Speaker 4: able to handle it, you know. And then early on,

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Speaker 4: I think people just didn't understand how I was going

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Speaker 4: to navigate through construction and if it would even be successful.

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Speaker 4: Because when I first came to New York, it was

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Speaker 4: all about Wall Street and you know, the buppies. I

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Speaker 4: don't remember the buffies.

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Speaker 1: Gosh, I know the neighborhoods. I know the vibe of it.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so the buppies. That was all about working for

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Speaker 4: Fortune five hundred companies in Wall Street.

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Speaker 3: So if you weren't.

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Speaker 4: Doing that, then you know, you weren't really a shaker

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Speaker 4: and a mover. So I don't know early on if

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Speaker 4: I was even considered to be a shaker and a mover,

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Speaker 4: just more of you know, this poor black girl out

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Speaker 4: here trying to promote her company from Nashville, Tennessee and

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Speaker 4: the big city of New York.

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Speaker 3: Man, I think we'll pass.

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Speaker 2: You know, even before you join the family business, you

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Speaker 2: also worked though you had other jobs. You worked at

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Speaker 2: other firms before you ended up saying Okay, your mom

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Speaker 2: called you and was like, we need you back here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, your father had had a stroke and she

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Speaker 2: really needed that support. How important do you think it

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Speaker 2: was for you to step out and step away from

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Speaker 2: the family to learn things on your own before returning,

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Speaker 2: or do you think that because I know you have

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Speaker 2: daughters too that are in the business as well right

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Speaker 2: and preparing for that, But do you think it's valuable

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Speaker 2: to say, let me go learn things somewhere else and

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Speaker 2: then come back and bring that with me.

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Speaker 3: I absolutely think it's valuable.

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Speaker 4: And it's also just natural to resist what's right in

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Speaker 4: front of you that you know you can just step

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Speaker 4: right into.

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Speaker 3: But to go out and work for another.

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Speaker 4: Firm, and a firm that's much larger that you know

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Speaker 4: is a basically a white male owned and dominated firm.

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Speaker 3: It really gives you. It's a positive and a negative.

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Speaker 4: The positive you get the great experience that you need

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Speaker 4: for your own business, but also lets you know there

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Speaker 4: could possibly be a glass ceiling there that you know

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Speaker 4: you don't see anybody in leadership that looks like you,

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Speaker 4: And that's how it was back then. And so you

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Speaker 4: begin to understand right away, well, if I want to

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Speaker 4: chart my course and be in control of my destiny,

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Speaker 4: then maybe I need to go back and do something

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Speaker 4: on my own. And I'm glad I made that choice.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like at the.

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Speaker 3: End I won with that.

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Speaker 4: It didn't it wasn't all always easy, and people didn't

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Speaker 4: always understand it. But I look at it now and

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Speaker 4: I see that. You know a lot of my friends

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Speaker 4: who went into the Fortune five hundred Corporate America and

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Speaker 4: they went the corporate route. You know they're out now,

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Speaker 4: right because they ask you to retire at a young age.

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Speaker 3: I'm retiring when I get.

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Speaker 1: Ready, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And you probably even when that happens, you're still going

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Speaker 2: to have a hand in it. I mean, it's still

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Speaker 2: a family business about to be what six generation.

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Speaker 4: Exactly six generations, So I think it's natural to do

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Speaker 4: have a little bit of rebellion against your family business

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Speaker 4: and to go out and try something new, and it's

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Speaker 4: good to do that.

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Speaker 2: One of your first big projects in New York was

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Speaker 2: the rail system for the Barclays. Yes, right, And that

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Speaker 2: was fascinating for me to read about that story because

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Speaker 2: I remember all of the drama of is this Barclay

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Speaker 2: Center going to happen or is it not? And then

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Speaker 2: there's the argument that people from the Unity can have

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Speaker 2: about why this is not going to be beneficial because

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Speaker 2: that does happen, right, And I'm going to and remind

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Speaker 2: me to bring this back to this casino that's happening

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Speaker 2: in New York. I want to bring it back to that,

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Speaker 2: But first I want to talk about the Barclays. You

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Speaker 2: detail it and the book. If I like something that

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Speaker 2: may not happen, and I think it was like six

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Speaker 2: years from when you first signed on to be able

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Speaker 2: to do that, that things were able to happen. So

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Speaker 2: walk us through that, because I know people who are listening.

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Speaker 2: I just love these insider stories about how things were built.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so Bruce Radner had this amazing vision to build

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Speaker 4: Barkley Arena in Brooklyn over the.

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Speaker 3: Rail yards and you know, and to buy.

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Speaker 4: The Nets team, which to me really revitalized that whole

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Speaker 4: area and brought something home to Brooklyn because you remember

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Speaker 4: Brooklyn had the Dodgers, yeah back in the day, and

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Speaker 4: we lost the We lost the Dodgers. So now to

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Speaker 4: have a professional basketball team just really revitalized Brooklyn. But

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Speaker 4: there was a lot of opposition anytime you're trying to

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Speaker 4: build something in such a heavily densed area, and so

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Speaker 4: you know, they were trying to use a little bit

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Speaker 4: of imminent domain, and you know, they had to take

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Speaker 4: over properties where owners didn't want to relinquish their properties

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Speaker 4: or they wanted to hijack them and charge Bruce Ratting

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Speaker 4: or a whole lot of money. So that's just one

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Speaker 4: of the dynamics he had to deal with.

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Speaker 3: But then dealing with the expense of a project that size.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you're moving the rail where the MTA is

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Speaker 4: stores their trains during the day, and you know, you're

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Speaker 4: moving that to a temporary location while you're trying to

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Speaker 4: buy out the permanent location.

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Speaker 1: Undoable it is, And you know what, there's.

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Speaker 4: So many I wonder how we get anything built in

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Speaker 4: New York because it is almost undoable. And you know,

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Speaker 4: but that's interesting you say that because JFK. Turmer One

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Speaker 4: had the same problem. Wow, yes, you know, we had

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Speaker 4: the same you know, touch and go like is this

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Speaker 4: going to work? You know, from one minute to the next,

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Speaker 4: you know, house the politics gonna play out.

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 4: I have learned to understand in New York eventually, if

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Speaker 4: it's a good enough project, it's going to get done.

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Speaker 4: It is rare that I've been a part of something

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Speaker 4: that just totally failed that was of that size and

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Speaker 4: magnitude because that's a mega project.

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Speaker 1: I mean he went way listen, talk about way of

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Speaker 1: a budget.

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Speaker 2: But you know, to even backtrack before that, though, what

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Speaker 2: I love is that while you may have pitched yourself

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Speaker 2: for that, right, you ended up getting the contract for

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Speaker 2: the rail yard that wasn't initially what you were going after.

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Speaker 1: No, right, And so talk about that a little bit too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, we we fit much better being the contractor

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Speaker 4: or the construction man for the actual arena, but that

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Speaker 4: portion of work had already been given away to another firm,

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Speaker 4: and so we were offered to do the construction management

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Speaker 4: to move the rail. Well, we didn't have one rail

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Speaker 4: project under our belt at the time, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I saw that like a glass cliff, like either we're

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Speaker 4: gonna make it or we're gonna fall off the cliff

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Speaker 4: and totally crash. But that's the nature of how you know,

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Speaker 4: you can begin to start a whole nother division in

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Speaker 4: your company if you're willing to take the risk and

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Speaker 4: do the hard work to get it done. And so

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Speaker 4: when they offered that piece, I said, absolutely take it.

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Speaker 4: Well I'll take it, you know, give me whatever you have,

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna take it. And so when I got those

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Speaker 4: plans a few days later, and they were as big

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Speaker 4: as this table here, and a bunch of them. I

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Speaker 4: just began to reach out to my network find out

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Speaker 4: who could help me on this project. And so we

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Speaker 4: started off with a real small contract.

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Speaker 3: Really, it was doing an.

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Speaker 4: Estimate for a portion of the work. And the contract

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Speaker 4: itself was like two hundred and thirty five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I read that, I would say that sounds like nothing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing, I know.

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Speaker 1: It balloons quickly, though, It balloons quickly.

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Speaker 4: And you know, they called up my good friend Jim

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Speaker 4: McKenna and like as a reference, like do you know

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Speaker 4: this woman?

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Speaker 3: And he was like, oh, yeah, definitely hire her. She'll

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Speaker 3: get it done, you know.

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Speaker 4: So you know, those are the type of relationships that

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Speaker 4: we need. When someone's saying something really good about you,

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Speaker 4: when you're not even in the room, you're not even

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Speaker 4: thinking about it, those are the type sponsors we really need.

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Speaker 4: And so I credit Jim, he's president right now of

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Speaker 4: Hunter and Roberts. I credit him a lot for our

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Speaker 4: success in winning that project, but also Bruce Radd Neer,

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Speaker 4: Bob Santa and all the others who said yes, let's

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Speaker 4: give them a kusic a chance. They know they have

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Speaker 4: not done this work before, but we know that they

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Speaker 4: can pull it off right. And then, you know, one

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Speaker 4: thing led to the next, just going to every meeting

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Speaker 4: that I could, and when the especially when the client

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Speaker 4: is there, and if the client put out they had

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Speaker 4: a problem, then right away I'm the one who's going

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Speaker 4: to solve.

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Speaker 1: It, right. And that's the energy people need.

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Speaker 4: That's the energy people need, and people need their problems solved.

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Speaker 4: You know, you can get so comfortable sometimes in your

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Speaker 4: position and who you are and what you've accomplished and

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Speaker 4: your you know, experiences that you forget to say, I'm here,

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Speaker 4: I'll do whatever you need me to do right now.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And you know what else was great about this book

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Speaker 2: was getting some of your family history. But in the

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Speaker 2: midst of getting the mckissack family history, we're also getting

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Speaker 2: the history of America. Yes, you know, and so there

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Speaker 2: were so many things in here that I was reading

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Speaker 2: about for the first time, but also connecting the dots

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Speaker 2: on a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: And what I really.

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Speaker 2: Realized is when people talk about, well, you know, slavery

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Speaker 2: is in the past, pull yourself up by your bootstraps,

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Speaker 2: where everybody's on an equal playing field right now. And

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Speaker 2: when we talk about all the things that have happened

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Speaker 2: in the past, it still affects us to this day.

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Speaker 2: And when we think about the current administration trying to

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Speaker 2: get rid of DEI everywhere and making sure that we

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Speaker 2: don't have certain opportunities and there there's a lot more obstacles.

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Speaker 1: And when you think.

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Speaker 2: About building things and having things taken away from you,

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Speaker 2: or you think about Tulsa, or you think about the

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Speaker 2: education system, or you know, just things like that, and

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Speaker 2: reading this book, it just does reinforce why programs are

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Speaker 2: needed because there are so many things that happened for

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Speaker 2: us that got squashed like that are still affecting us

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Speaker 2: to this day.

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Speaker 4: Right and you know, it's structural, so it's very hard

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Speaker 4: to change it. You know, after George Floyd, a lot

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Speaker 4: of the Fortune two hundred corporations, you know, put in

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Speaker 4: place programs to see what they could do to help.

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Speaker 4: But it was a structural It lasts for the twinkle

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Speaker 4: of an eye and then it was gone. So that's

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Speaker 4: not helping us long term. You know, we need real help.

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Speaker 4: When you think about venture capitalist money out there, and

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Speaker 4: only one point two percent or less goes to companies

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Speaker 4: of color.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, capital right, and you know the business. I mean

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Speaker 3: it's capital intense. You better have some really good you know,

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Speaker 3: some money and connections and good connections to build anything

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Speaker 3: in New York City.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think about this casino?

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Speaker 2: And I want to I'm sore there's all this conversations right, Like,

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Speaker 2: I know, there's a few different bids out right now

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Speaker 2: to get a casino built in New York. One that

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Speaker 2: people are talking about a lot is the one because

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Speaker 2: it's Rock Nation. So of course in our world we

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Speaker 2: see those stories more and you see both sides of things, right.

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Speaker 2: You see people saying, well, this is going to bring

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Speaker 2: similar to the Barclays where they were saying it was

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Speaker 2: going to bring a lot more congestion, a lot more traffic.

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Speaker 2: But now they're also saying, well a casino is gonna

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Speaker 2: cause more issues with people, people addicted to.

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Speaker 1: Gambling, prostitution and things like that.

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Speaker 2: What do you if you were saying, if if you

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Speaker 2: were going to give me your just unbiased opinion of

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Speaker 2: what you think about a casino in Times Square, what

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Speaker 2: would your thoughts be as somebody who has done huge

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Speaker 2: projects in New York.

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Speaker 4: So my opinion is biased, it's not unbiased, okay, because

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Speaker 4: I'm a partner with hard Rock and Steve Cohen.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I want to see a casino at the.

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Speaker 1: Mets, okay.

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Speaker 4: And the reason why that makes sense is because Queens

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Speaker 4: needs something big, you know, and you know, you fly

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Speaker 4: into LaGuardia or JFK, you're ten or fifteen minutes from

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Speaker 4: that location.

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Speaker 3: And that location right now is wide open.

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Speaker 4: It's a parking lot, and so to have something beautiful there,

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Speaker 4: I think you can control it a lot better than

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Speaker 4: you can at Tom Square.

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Speaker 3: So I am not for Tom Square.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now we had a conversation about this behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: because I do feel like we do have places we

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Speaker 2: could put it that's not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Tom Square is going to be something that you

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Speaker 1: kind of have to.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's going to be floors of casino. If

401
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Speaker 4: you go to Vegas, Atlantic City, the best thing about

402
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Speaker 4: a casino is all on one floor and it's huge,

403
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Speaker 4: and you get all of that excitement, all that energy

404
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Speaker 4: on one floor. I just think if it's broken up right,

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Speaker 4: that's just not going to have the same effect.

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Speaker 1: And then you can go right from Terminal one to

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Speaker 1: your casino now I go right from from now.

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Speaker 2: We talked about politics briefly here, right, but politics have

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Speaker 2: played a huge part in what it is that you

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Speaker 2: do for a living, and like you said, relationships and

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Speaker 2: relationships might be one of the most important things. So

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Speaker 2: when it comes to right now, we're talking about the mayor.

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Speaker 1: In New York.

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Speaker 2: City and who is going to end up being mayor,

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Speaker 2: I just want to know. And sometimes it's haired right

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Speaker 2: because you don't know what's going to happen, so you

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Speaker 2: don't want to It is harrd because no matter who's

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Speaker 2: going to be mayor for somebody you didn't want, they

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Speaker 2: can't really hold a grudge against you, but they kind

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Speaker 2: of can. But what are your thoughts about what New

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Speaker 2: York City needs and what they would need in a mayor?

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Speaker 1: Right now?

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Speaker 4: It's a tough city to run, and you know, and

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Speaker 4: you know, at the end of the job, no one

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Speaker 4: makes it except Bloomberg. Everyone else sells off into the

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Speaker 4: sunset and you never hear from them again.

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Speaker 3: Because New Yorkers are tough.

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Speaker 4: But we need somebody tough, and we need someone who

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Speaker 4: understands the system and politics. I feel like at the

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Speaker 4: end of the day that we're going to play a

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Speaker 4: role regardless of who's mayor, because anyone who becomes mayor

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Speaker 4: is going to need our expertise when it comes to

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Speaker 4: design and construction, especially how it's set up the city

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Speaker 4: with respect to that. We have a housing crisis right

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Speaker 4: now that you know, some some politician needs to set

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Speaker 4: the right policy in place for that. That's the mayor

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00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 4: and the governor. And so at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna be fine. We're going to play a role

439
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Speaker 4: in it. Do I have my favorites, yes, but I

440
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Speaker 4: reach out to everyone and I can get to know everyone.

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Speaker 3: You know, my father I.

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Speaker 4: Remember back in the day and I don't know, I

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Speaker 4: can't even remember if I put this in the book,

444
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 4: but he said, I'm an afrocrat, Okay, an afrocrat. So

445
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 4: he doesn't care if it's a democratic wherever wins, that's

446
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 4: the party he's going to at the end of the

447
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 4: election evening.

448
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: So and I saw him do that, I would go

449
00:22:58,600 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 3: with him.

450
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:06,479
Speaker 4: And he had relationships with everyone, you know, because at

451
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 4: the end of the day, it's about finding consensus. It's

452
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 4: about agreeing on something. You know, we may not agree

453
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 4: one hundred percent, but if we're a sixty percent.

454
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: Okay, right, that's good for me.

455
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 2: You know what, that's so important because one thing that

456
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: you said in this book that I found to be

457
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: really important is that when you have a partner with

458
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 2: a partnership with somebody, you do want that person to

459
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 2: be comfortable with that partnership.

460
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

461
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: Right.

462
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: You don't want to go into a situation where the

463
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: person's already mad about whatever they did or didn't get.

464
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: And that's been important for you in business too.

465
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes you are like, Okay, I wanted to

466
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 2: have majority ownership, but I'm okay with forty nine percent,

467
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: you know, and you detail things like that.

468
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 4: In this Yeah, if that's going to send the job

469
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 4: lessons here, Yeah, if that's going to get the job done,

470
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 4: and that's going to make everybody feel like they want

471
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 4: because at the end of the day, we have to

472
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 4: build the structure, and that's going to take a minimum

473
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 4: of two to three years, so we're going to be working.

474
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: Together for a long time.

475
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 4: I don't want you to feel that I took advantage

476
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 4: of you in any way. I would want my partner

477
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 4: to know that we work together to come to a resolution.

478
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 4: But I also say in the very beginning. Here's what

479
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 4: I want, right, I'm clear on that I may not

480
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 4: get it. But if you don't ask, you're right. If

481
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 4: you don't ask, you definitely won't get it.

482
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: Well, listen, that is a fact. Now, another thing that

483
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: happened in this book. This was so crazy to me,

484
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 2: but meeting with the saudiast oh.

485
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: I did not.

486
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: Know about this, And this was really really interesting to

487
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 2: me to read about because automatically you hear that name

488
00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 2: ben Laden, yes, and it just evokes all kinds of emotions. Sure,

489
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: you know, for people here, So just and listen. You

490
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: got to have to read the whole book to hear everything.

491
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 2: But I just like these little anecdotes for us so

492
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: that people can understand, like all of the different ways

493
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 2: that we can go here.

494
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 4: So I got a call from a friend who said,

495
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 4: I have this consultant working with the Saudi's. They want

496
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 4: to build X number of soccer stadiums and I think

497
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 4: it was eight, and they're looking for some American companies

498
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 4: and they want one of those companies to be black.

499
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 4: I'm like really, So I continued to talk to her.

500
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 4: We met, you know, I kept vetting the situation, and

501
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 4: then I said, well, you got to tell me who

502
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 4: it is we're meeting with. They're like, no, I can't

503
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 4: tell you. Matter of fact, we need for you to

504
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 4: fly to London and meet with him in Hampshire, like

505
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 4: next week, like right away. I'm like, well, I need more.

506
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I gotta get on a plane. And they

507
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 4: wouldn't tell me. It wasn't until we were in Hampshire

508
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 4: at the Four Seasons Hotel walking into a meeting that

509
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 4: they told me I was meeting with Sod Ben Lawton.

510
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 4: I'm like Ben Lawton, like ind Ben Lawton, Yeah, his brother.

511
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 4: But Sad was from the original family, the ben Lawton family,

512
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 4: who were the largest contractors in Saudi Arabia, and so

513
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 4: Osama Ben Lawton was from one of the concubines, so

514
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 4: the father had fifty some odd kids. Osama was one

515
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 4: of them, and so that gave me a little bit

516
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 4: of ease.

517
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 3: But you know, you're still going into.

518
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 4: A meeting shell shocked over the name and who you're

519
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 4: meeting with, And in my mind, I'm just thinking, how

520
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 4: am I going.

521
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 3: To play this?

522
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 4: I want to get back to the US. Who can

523
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 4: I talk to you about to get support around this project.

524
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 4: The minute you say to ben Latin name. Oh yeah,

525
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 4: it's a it's but you know what, they turned out

526
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 4: to be some of the most sincere people, and I

527
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 4: felt bad for them because that names also Sod had yeah,

528
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 4: and Sod had had gone to school in Boston, and

529
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 4: he said, I could never go back to the US

530
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 4: and I missed Boston, I missed New York. Just bring

531
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 4: me anything you can from the city of New York.

532
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 4: And I mean, like I would take some little trinkets

533
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 4: right off the street that said New York, New York,

534
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 4: and he would love it.

535
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 3: He's like, thank you so much.

536
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 4: And so, you know, can you imagine having billions and

537
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 4: billions of dollars and you can't come to New York,

538
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 4: you can't go to.

539
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 3: LA, you can't go anywhere in the United States.

540
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: Huh.

541
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: You know With that, I was thinking, are there times?

542
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: Because business is business? But are there people morally? Does

543
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: that matter? Like if you're like, well, Marley, I don't

544
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: like this person's stance or things that they've done. And

545
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: I'm not talking about that case, but I just mean

546
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: in general, I'm sure have there been times when you

547
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: were torn about making decisions based off of I don't

548
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: know if that person aligns with what I stand for.

549
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, and it wasn't in Sod's case. I would have,

550
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 4: you know, worked with Sod to the end because I

551
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 4: thought he was a genuine businessman with integrity. But you

552
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 4: do run across people who you can tell right away

553
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 4: don't have that same integrity. They wanted to use, you know,

554
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 4: the Mecisic name, put it out front, but only give

555
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: you ten percent of the partnership. And so that's not

556
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 4: right either. And so those people I'd had to walk

557
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 4: away from, I'd have to say, no, I can't do

558
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 4: business with you, or no, I can't take your money,

559
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: you know, because it's wherever it's.

560
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: Coming from, right, it's not the right place.

561
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: What would you tell somebody who is say they're new

562
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 2: in this business and they're just starting out. They've done

563
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: the groundwork, But how do you know when to like say, okay,

564
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: I can do the ten percent because I'm trying to

565
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: build my business, or do you need to really walk

566
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: away from certain things because you know you want more

567
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: Because there's a lot of times we know we want more,

568
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 2: But when you're newer in this game, sometimes you have

569
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 2: to like build that up.

570
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 4: No, I agree, like early on, they're you know, unconventional.

571
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 3: Maybe that's the best way to put it. Things that

572
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 3: you know, you.

573
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 4: Might have to just bite your tongue and take it,

574
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 4: you know, go ahead and take the ten percent or

575
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 4: whatever it is to get started, because if you don't

576
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 4: have any revenue, you don't have a business. And then

577
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 4: but then understand this, this takes time to build up.

578
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 4: It is not going to happen overnight. But eventually you

579
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 4: can get to the point where you can say no

580
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: to people, or you can put people in their place,

581
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 4: can say I'm not doing that. And here's whyfe you

582
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 4: want to work with me. Here are my boundaries, here

583
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 4: are my standards, and you got to you gotta do

584
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 4: it my way or we're not doing it at all.

585
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 4: And so early on, you know, you got to do

586
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 4: what you have to do to generate some revenue. And

587
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 4: I understand that, I say, do.

588
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: It right early on, early, go on, do it.

589
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: How important was knowing your family history and putting in

590
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: this book for other people to know as well, because

591
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: you know the name definitely rings Bells. And I also

592
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: love the way that you framed it because just early on,

593
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: thinking about like your great great great grandfather and him

594
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: being in this business and the obstacles that they had,

595
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: but still being able to have a team. And I

596
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: think even for me understanding how slavery was different, you know,

597
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: amongst like the slave owners who had a smaller team

598
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: of people versus people who had like you know, we

599
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: all see movies and think of the slave owners who

600
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: had like huntings of spaces outside on the plantation. But

601
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: people had different relationships obviously with you know, depending on

602
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: what their team was like and your family, they were

603
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 2: able to make it happen for themselves as far as

604
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: when it was time, you know, to be free and

605
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: get work done. They had so much skill and so

606
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,239
Speaker 2: much ability under their belt that was passed down and

607
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: passed down.

608
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: How did you learn.

609
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: All of these stories? Like was this something that your family?

610
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: I just don't because I don't know my family history

611
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: like that. I know, you know, my grandfather could fix

612
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: watches and because I used to see him do it,

613
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: But I don't know where he got that from or

614
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. It's just like certain things,

615
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: it made me feel like I need to dive deeper

616
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: and get more information.

617
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I have to say it all started with

618
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 4: the family tree, and then the stories associated.

619
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: With that family tree.

620
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 4: You know, I remember the stories of you know, my

621
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 4: father talking about his father and how he had all

622
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 4: these names, and he had all these names because his

623
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 4: grandparents had seven boys, seven girls first and then seven boys.

624
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 4: But they wanted they wanted boys. Every time they had

625
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 4: a girl, they wanted a boy. So the first boy

626
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: got all the.

627
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 3: Names of the girls.

628
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 4: I mean, the boys think ought they were gonna have.

629
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: So his name was Molses Edward John Henry Lewis mccause.

630
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: So you hear these stories growing up, you know, and

631
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 4: it's fascinating, right, You're like, first of all, how does

632
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 4: anyone have fourteen kids?

633
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: Right, I'm telling you.

634
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 4: And so you know, it starts with just writing down

635
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 4: that family tree.

636
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 3: And then I remember another story. They used to say, oh,

637
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: we're related to the Maxim House coffee people. I'm like, really,

638
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 3: the white So you know, I got to the bottom

639
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 3: of that story. And the real story is that the

640
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: mckizwick slave that.

641
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 4: Was given to as a wedding gift to the Maxwell family,

642
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 4: he married one of their slaves. So it wasn't like

643
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 4: he married a Maxwell and he married a slave, right,

644
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 4: And so you know, you.

645
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 3: Just start getting to the roots.

646
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 4: Even the name, right, even the name of Kizzwick is

647
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 4: a name someone was in Ireland.

648
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 3: They called me up. It took a picture of sent

649
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 3: it to me.

650
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 4: And I'm like, yeah, well I'm the black Irish. I

651
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 4: still like to drink.

652
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: With us, you know.

653
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: Uh yeah.

654
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 4: No, the history and Nick Child's did a lot of history.

655
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 4: He did a lot of that research, like as far

656
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 4: as drawing in the way slaves were treated, because what

657
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 4: we were trying to do is figure out how did

658
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: the mcasics make it through slavery and Jim Crow and

659
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 4: segregation and racism in the Deep South.

660
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 3: How did they make it?

661
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 4: And so that was probably what started us doing a

662
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 4: lot of the research that we did. And then to

663
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 4: find out that, you know, the slave master put one

664
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 4: of the mcusics in business and that was common practice.

665
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 4: And you know, I'd like to think like at that time,

666
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 4: that's when the.

667
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 3: Birth of a nation.

668
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: Oh God.

669
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: So Nick came up with that.

670
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 4: He's like, surel we had this birth of a nation

671
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 4: that took place right around this time, and I'm sure

672
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 4: it affected your family business. So let's look into how

673
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 4: that affected your family business.

674
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: You guys even had a cross burned on the front line.

675
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: And that was my generation.

676
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: I mean that is who would think and for people

677
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 2: who act like oh things, And so that was in

678
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 2: the past. The fact that that could happen when you

679
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: were a kid is so wild to me.

680
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: No, but Angelo forever. Even What's even more.

681
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 4: Traumatizing is I was at the house of Avon Williams,

682
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 4: a civil rights attorney who lived right down the street

683
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 4: from Jay Alexander Louby. Okay, so all these people right

684
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 4: a half a block from Fisk University's campus and Ma

685
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 4: Harry was right behind their house. So how someone could

686
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 4: come into our neighborhood and burn across is ridiculous.

687
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: The house next.

688
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 4: Door was where Honor Bond Toomps and Langston Hughes used

689
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 4: to come visit him.

690
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: That is crazy.

691
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, to think that people will still exist, you know

692
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: like that, and and back to like talking about government

693
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: and policy and you know you survived through Giuliani.

694
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: I survived through Julia. That's in there too.

695
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean all the.

696
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: Laws in New York City, you know.

697
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: That is to me.

698
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: I just felt like even with the w MBS at

699
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 2: the mwb' s right, wubs, it helps, But it's not

700
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 2: like the b all and all, you know what I'm saying,

701
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: And people act like we're losing this because they're giving

702
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: it to unqualified.

703
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 4: That is so not what's happening. So what's happening at all.

704
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 4: There's there's so many, so much opportunity out there that

705
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 4: we don't get a chance to even be on right

706
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 4: to participate on. Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's all around us

707
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 4: every day of the week, you know, And I think about,

708
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 4: you know, the larger construction firms, how many are are there,

709
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 4: you know, it's like seven or eight of them. They're

710
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 4: doing everything else.

711
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that we're not doing.

712
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: So you know, there was even a point where you

713
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 2: got denied a project because of they did a financial

714
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 2: clearance on you, right, right, but they weren't doing it

715
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: to other people.

716
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: They yeah, they did that to you.

717
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: And then we're like, oh, well, sorry, you don't have

718
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: the capital, you know, the liquid that you needed to

719
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 2: be able to do this project, right.

720
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 4: And they wouldn't even tell me what what the goal

721
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 4: was they was. They just said you don't have it.

722
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: And I would think at that point, it's like I've

723
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: proven myself. Do you still feel like you have anything

724
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: to prove.

725
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I still feel like I have to go in

726
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 4: and prove myself over and over again, absolutely, and overcome

727
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 4: the stigma of being a minority, black owned business because

728
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 4: that comes with the stigma.

729
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: Too, it does.

730
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just feel like you've done so much work

731
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: and proven yourself your family alone, And I think, what'd

732
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 2: you say three thousand or buildings and projects and church

733
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 2: six thousand.

734
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: Six thousand? Sorry?

735
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 3: Whoa six thousand churches? Yeah?

736
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 2: I mean that to me, it's kind of like, what

737
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: is there still to prove? But do you do you

738
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: think that white companies feel like this, like they come

739
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: in feeling like that. You think that's just a thing

740
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: in this business, or you think just being.

741
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 4: No, they can be mediocre and yeah, and they don't

742
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:29,760
Speaker 4: have to prove anything.

743
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: No, it's just you know, people say a lot of

744
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 2: times they'll fill up like something cannot work and somebody

745
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 2: will build them out. And a lot of times we

746
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: don't have that system of somebody to step in and

747
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 2: be like, oh this didn't work, well, let me make

748
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 2: a call for you.

749
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 4: Right, And that's across the board. I mean, I'm selling

750
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 4: our business not just to our clients. I'm selling it

751
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 4: to employees. When I'm trying to get the best talent

752
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 4: out there to work for my company, I'm selling that.

753
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 4: I'm selling it to banks, insurance companies. Everywhere I turn,

754
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 4: I have to sell it to someone. So no, it's

755
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 4: it's something that has to be addressed. But it's so

756
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 4: deeply ingrained. I don't I don't see how that's going

757
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 4: to happen. And that's exactly why we need these programs,

758
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 4: because these these programs allow everyone to have a level

759
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 4: playing field to enter the game, just to enter right.

760
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 4: And you know, then after you enter, like you said,

761
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 4: you can build a reputation and you can point to

762
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 4: the work that you've done and zaff that you have.

763
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 4: But if we don't have these programs, where do people

764
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 4: get started? How are things now?

765
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: Because you know, we hear a lot about what's going

766
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 2: on with the tariffs, How is that affecting business for you?

767
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: Because sometimes we don't think about you know, obviously for

768
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: all of us, we'll see the prices rising when we

769
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: go to the supermarket in so many different ways. I mean,

770
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: I'm a small business owner, and I can see that

771
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: people aren't coming out the way that they used to

772
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: and having to up charge for things.

773
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: I mean coffee.

774
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 2: The price of coffee has gone up, you know, because

775
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: of the territs, and it's really hard for us to

776
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: have to pass those costs on to people who are

777
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 2: already strapped right now. But how is that affecting your

778
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 2: business right now?

779
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 4: Well, the cost the cost of equipment is higher and supplies.

780
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 4: But the only project that I've seen that it really

781
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 4: affects is Terminal one at JFK. There we're we're in

782
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 4: we're finishing up phase A. But now Phase B is

783
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 4: supposed to be starting. But now it's being slowed down

784
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 4: because air travel has decreased because nobody. People are saying,

785
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 4: we don't want to go to the US. We don't

786
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 4: want to be bothered with all that joy. Now we

787
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 4: are not looking not look good. We are not.

788
00:40:58,560 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 3: So it's affecting to.

789
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 4: So that project is slowing down, and that I definitely

790
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 4: you know, is affecting our business.

791
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 2: What about even as far as because I've heard people

792
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: say who are in the in construction that it's even

793
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 2: hard to get people to come to work at times

794
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 2: to build because even if they're here legally or they're

795
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 2: waiting for things, there's so many laws that are getting

796
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,720
Speaker 2: reversed and people don't know what's going on. People getting

797
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: stopped and deported that shouldn't even be getting deported. How

798
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: do you find that's affecting or is it affecting your business?

799
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 4: That hasn't affected us as much. Most of our project

800
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 4: our union projects, so we're drawing from the union halls,

801
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 4: so we haven't seen that. But we are trying to

802
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 4: bring it employee right now, trying to figure out where

803
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 4: he's from. But he has to go through immigration to

804
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 4: get here, and that has been prolonged. And you know,

805
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 4: we need this person to work at a high level

806
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 4: on one of our projects for the MTA, and you know,

807
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 4: we thought he would have been here back in July,

808
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 4: but here we are getting ready to go into September

809
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 4: and he's not right. And so you think, you know,

810
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 4: you've gotten through all the paperwork, and then this administration

811
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 4: comes up with something else that has to be done.

812
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,959
Speaker 1: M M. I mean, it is a wild time.

813
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: And with that being said, I want to also stress

814
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 2: the importance because sometimes people feel like voting doesn't matter,

815
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 2: and not even just for the president, but we're talking

816
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: about mayors, we're talking about governors, we're talking about local

817
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: officials and we see how this can affect business just

818
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: across the board. Just we were talking about mwbe's and

819
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: how those were affected during Juliani and how things are

820
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 2: being affected now with who's in office, and so that

821
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: is something that I just want to stress too.

822
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: That's one thing I was thinking when I was reading it.

823
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 2: I was like, Ooh, this is a perfect reason why

824
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,439
Speaker 2: we all need to make sure we know who's running

825
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 2: for office and to get out there and vote too.

826
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 4: We absolutely need to vote. Some people feel like, oh,

827
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 4: this doesn't affect me, but it does.

828
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: If you use any government services then I mean your water,

829
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 3: your sanitation, everything, education, all these things affect us. Now.

830
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 4: You know what if they take all black history off

831
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 4: the off the books are they're working on.

832
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: It, I'll take all the books out so that one

833
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 2: thing where they try to say slavery wasn't bad.

834
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: Did you see that?

835
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, the teaching trying to teach that and they're trying

836
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 4: to take get rid of the worse.

837
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 2: For them, slavery wasn't so bad. I was like, what

838
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 2: it is, it's a cartoon.

839
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,479
Speaker 4: Well, yesterday and the Sunday Times, you know, they had

840
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 4: an article about the administration trying to get rid of

841
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 4: any indication of slavery. Yeah, yeah, you.

842
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 2: Know that is that's real history. Like I'm like, y'all

843
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 2: wouldn't have any if it wasn't for you know what

844
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: I'm saying.

845
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 4: It really happened, Okay, but they don't. They feel that

846
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 4: they don't want it in their face.

847
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 3: They don't want to be reminded. So you're trying to

848
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: get rid of.

849
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: It and get them reparations. Then we can, you know, get.

850
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 4: The I want my reparations. I don't know about you,

851
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 4: and I want it in the forum or no taxes

852
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 4: forever forever.

853
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that would be a dream come true

854
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: in perpetuity, no taxes. Oh my gosh. Listen, I can't

855
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 2: see that happening. Well, not right now.

856
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: Maybe you never thought about running for office.

857
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 4: I did a long time ago. But now you've read

858
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 4: my book, you see I can't pass. Oh no, and

859
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 4: you didn't even get the galley.

860
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: Well.

861
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 2: I do want to say this, though, work life balance

862
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 2: for you, because there was a period of time when

863
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 2: work was so stressful for you that you had to

864
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 2: learn how to even take some time for yourself. And

865
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,479
Speaker 2: so talk to me about what that balance is looking

866
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: like now because like you said, you have all these

867
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: different projects, you have a buck out now that you

868
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: are promoting you know, family and everything, and so what

869
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: was that balance?

870
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: Like?

871
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 2: I mean, some people tell you there is no such

872
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: thing as balance, But what are some things that you

873
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:13,479
Speaker 2: have learned that you would share?

874
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 4: Well, I think you can get some balance out there

875
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 4: between work and your personal life. I think it's important

876
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 4: to center yourself on a daily basis early in the

877
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 4: morning and then we have a meditation room in our

878
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 4: office where I take advantage of it. I call it meditation,

879
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 4: but it's really a.

880
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: Nap I sleep. We need that.

881
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 3: It's a thirty minute power nap.

882
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 2: Those power naps are good for your health. Sometimes you

883
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 2: definitely need those.

884
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 3: They really are.

885
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 4: And so you know, I think it's important that you

886
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 4: do take time for yourself because, as you know, I've

887
00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,399
Speaker 4: had a stroke February twenty fifth this year, I had

888
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 4: open heart surgery, and so all of these things are

889
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 4: the result of not taking care of yourself.

890
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 3: So if I'm not good, then what's it all for?

891
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 3: You want?

892
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 4: You want to have good health, and so it's important definitely,

893
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 4: and you can't have that balance. It's important to spend

894
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 4: time with your family and you know, whatever's.

895
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 3: Up to your husband.

896
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 2: I know.

897
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:34,760
Speaker 1: I need to learn more about that. Okay, that happened

898
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: so fast.

899
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 4: Got to keep your eye open, follow your intuition. Your

900
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 4: intuition will not lie to you.

901
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: Send I'm telling you we need a whole shouse.

902
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 2: Daniel's story about that aspect, the relationship stuff, because I

903
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 2: want your daughter is because thinking about how you probably

904
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: do have your parents crazy when you were young, did

905
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: you give them some knowing how?

906
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: He was definitely like, you know, like me when I

907
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: was a kid.

908
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I gave them a lot of grace. But

909
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 4: then I wasn't my mother either. My mother was like

910
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 4: a general okay, so she reigned.

911
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 3: We did not curse in front of her.

912
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 4: You know.

913
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 3: One time my sister and I called her a bitch.

914
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you.

915
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 3: And she's like, what did you say? We were like nothing,

916
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 3: not a thing, nothing.

917
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 4: But because of that, that made us want it to

918
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 4: be really mischievous.

919
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 3: We wanted to, you know, especially me.

920
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did that a lot more than my sister

921
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 4: early on, but I got it out of my system.

922
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: I think that's good.

923
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 2: You get out of your system at a young age,

924
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: so you're not later on in life like exactly rebellious.

925
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 2: It's also nice that you had your sister with you, yeah,

926
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: you know, and along this journey.

927
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 4: Because it could be very lone, especially you know, going

928
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 4: to high school. Well, K through twelve, we were in

929
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 4: an all predominantly white school that was private, and you

930
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 4: know when we first went to that school, maybe there

931
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 4: were six people of color in the entire school K

932
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 4: through twelve where we graduated, we graduated with five or six,

933
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 4: you know, black folks with a class of seventy five.

934
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: So you know, that's so tough.

935
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, trus me, I went to well, I went from

936
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 2: kindergarten in sixth grade, my school was pretty much all black.

937
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: I think there was like two white kids in the

938
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: whole school.

939
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 2: But then I went to private school and that's when

940
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: I was like, I was so it was.

941
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: Tough, Yeah, it was so it was good to have

942
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: a buddy. Yeah.

943
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

944
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: And then you went to Howard like, oh yeah, please.

945
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,919
Speaker 3: Hands down the best experience ever.

946
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean we're thinking about they're also

947
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: talking about HBCUs and trying to expand in more places

948
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: outside of the South, and I know that's been a conversation.

949
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 2: Really yeah, that's going on now, so you might want

950
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 2: to get your hands in, you know, building some of

951
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: these campuses. Absolutely, you said, really yeah, let me know

952
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: about that.

953
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 3: Listen.

954
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: That's the only way I could see it happening.

955
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, you know, congratulations on this book coming out.

956
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: I loved reading it.

957
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 2: Like I said, I'm a person who absolutely loves to

958
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 2: read all about real estate, to read all about the journey.

959
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: That you've been on, you know, just me having known you.

960
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: I admire you so much, and I feel like this

961
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 2: book really gave me a glimpse more into your personal

962
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: who made you who you are today. But the family

963
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 2: that oh look the family, the black family who built

964
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: America and we got it definitely a chance to learn

965
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 2: more about that. Even I came to your office party

966
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: and you talk about the meditation room, but there's also

967
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,959
Speaker 2: like beautiful artwork, yes.

968
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 1: You know, on the walls.

969
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: It felt like a lot of things, which is very

970
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,919
Speaker 2: intentional for your office and your staf.

971
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 4: Absolutely, we have invested a lot in black art, and

972
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 4: you know it is it's pieces that other people may

973
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 4: not have known anything about, an artist that people may

974
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 4: not have known anything about.

975
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 3: But we featured them when you when.

976
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: You came, I literally did a tour. It was like

977
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: a museum.

978
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 2: But that's amazing to be able to come and see

979
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 2: that like on the walls. You know that it makes

980
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 2: you feel like really proud to yeah, yeah.

981
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 4: Proud that we can actually produce this beautiful excellence.

982
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: You had a lit party too, say I'm coming back

983
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: this year.

984
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 3: Oh good, thank you. We want you there, but.

985
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

986
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 2: And you guys, make sure you pick up this book

987
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: and read it if you haven't had a chance to

988
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 2: do that. Are you doing any more dates for you know,

989
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 2: in person where people can get a chance to meet.

990
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 4: You or yes, we have a date October twenty second

991
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 4: with Charlemagne and then we have Atlanta the tenth of September.

992
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: Okay, Nashville's sixteenth.

993
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 4: Of October, and so yeah, we have quite a few

994
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 4: dates coming up.

995
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: All right, Gay, we got to make sure we look

996
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: for that.

997
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 2: What's the website so I know where we can if

998
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: people want to come and meet you in person and

999
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: get their books signed and have that conversation.

1000
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: Is there a website?

1001
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 2: I know, you know, go ahead dot com? Okay, chermachisic

1002
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 2: Daniel dot com.

1003
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 3: Oh I forgot coming up. Troy.

1004
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh and yeah he was at the Rashad was

1005
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 2: there too at the holiday party. All right, Well, shout

1006
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 2: out to them. That's what I'm talking about. Thank you

1007
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 2: so much for joining me.

1008
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 3: Oh my pleasure.