Speaker 1: Positively Gam is sponsored by Vasiline. See how they are
Speaker 1: working towards equitable skin care for all at vasiline dot Com.
Speaker 1: I just honestly feel like we need to have our
Speaker 1: own education programs for our children, because this is all
Speaker 1: by design. Us not knowing our history and not understanding
Speaker 1: who we are and where we came from is by design.
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody, I'm Gammy and this is positively gam.
Speaker 1: Every week I have raw, in depth conversations with inspirational
Speaker 1: people pushing for change on everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness,
Speaker 1: to the current issues spacing the black community. So welcome everybody.
Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to be discussing a really
Speaker 1: interesting and timely book entitled Black Street Saved My Life
Speaker 1: by Ernest Krim The Third I had a friend that
Speaker 1: sent this book to me, and just the title alone
Speaker 1: really struck me. I really really believe so strongly that
Speaker 1: it is the lack of knowledge that we have about
Speaker 1: our true history that keeps us so divided as a
Speaker 1: community and as a culture, and that is by design.
Speaker 1: Joining me on the podcast is John Lucas and Ernest Krim.
Speaker 1: John Lucas is an accomplished entertainment artist and president of
Speaker 1: the nonprofit organizations Step into the Light. Ernest is a
Speaker 1: high school teacher, activists and author of the book Black
Speaker 1: History Saved My Life, which is the topic of our discussion.
Speaker 1: So I want to start with you, John, because John
Speaker 1: and I met at a stepping event. I am, I'm
Speaker 1: not from Chicago, but I love the Chicago step and
Speaker 1: that's where I met John and we became very good friends.
Speaker 1: You who actually were the one that sent me the book. Yes,
Speaker 1: you sent me the book that sent me Ernest book.
Speaker 1: So how did you and Earnest meet? The nonprofit that
Speaker 1: I have was forming in my head and I was like,
Speaker 1: I need to get back to the school. You know.
Speaker 1: I just got sick of going on social media and
Speaker 1: hearing about classmates having to bury their children they got shot,
Speaker 1: you know, or hearing that classmate's son is going to
Speaker 1: jail to do a bid whatever. And so I was like,
Speaker 1: let me go back and just see what I can do.
Speaker 1: So I still have connections there. I know wonderful lady
Speaker 1: there that works in the principal's office, who's one of
Speaker 1: the secretary' who name is ms Ella Jenkins, and I've
Speaker 1: known her for a long time. And so I was
Speaker 1: just telling her what I'm trying to do, and she
Speaker 1: was like, you need to meet Ernest Krim And and
Speaker 1: I she wasn't the first person to tell me that,
Speaker 1: but she was like, I'm going to see if he's available.
Speaker 1: And my other friend who also works at the school,
Speaker 1: she walked me down to his room, and that's where
Speaker 1: we first met and got a chance to talk and
Speaker 1: chat and and you know, I just got a chance
Speaker 1: to it a feel for each other and what we're about,
Speaker 1: and I started to He actually has started a black
Speaker 1: student union at the high school, which I think is
Speaker 1: awesome because you know, usually black student unions start on
Speaker 1: the collegiate level, where you know, where black kids can
Speaker 1: come together and talk about common issues. And so he
Speaker 1: would have me come in and allow me to come
Speaker 1: in and talk to the kids about my experiences and
Speaker 1: get a chance to connect with them so that those
Speaker 1: children can see my face. And so when he said, hey,
Speaker 1: I have this book, you know, I was more than
Speaker 1: happy to pass it along because he's doing wonderful things
Speaker 1: not just for the children, but for the community in
Speaker 1: which they live in and try to navigate. Ernest. So
Speaker 1: tell the listeners a little about your background and why
Speaker 1: you decided to write the book. Yeah. So I'm from
Speaker 1: the South Side of Chicago, born in the late eighties,
Speaker 1: and I was raised by parents who were very aware.
Speaker 1: And I say I was blessed because I had parents
Speaker 1: who whenever I asked the question, whenever I had an carey,
Speaker 1: they always answered my question. I was that why why why? Why? Why? Kid?
Speaker 1: And they always had a response, and if they didn't
Speaker 1: have a response, they led me in that direction to
Speaker 1: find the answer. And this is before Google, so that's
Speaker 1: a big deal. We have the encyclopedias you know in
Speaker 1: the basement. It was from the sixties though, don't get
Speaker 1: it twisted, but we still had a chance to read
Speaker 1: through them. Being caught in two worlds really on the
Speaker 1: South Side, like I saw my friends who were, you know,
Speaker 1: caught up in the street life. But then I also
Speaker 1: had parents in the family who was like, that's not
Speaker 1: gonna be you like you going to college. We ain't
Speaker 1: gonna be able to get you all the Jordan's. We
Speaker 1: ain't gonna be able to get you everything you want,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna get you to give you access to
Speaker 1: all the knowledge you need. And throughout my life I
Speaker 1: began to realize that I always had this question about
Speaker 1: our condition as black people, but I wasn't really connecting
Speaker 1: the dots yet. And I guess my inquiry started with,
Speaker 1: for one, not being able to be friends with a
Speaker 1: pair of twins white friends that I had that because
Speaker 1: they didn't want to come to our neighborhood. And then
Speaker 1: that snowballed into being nine years old and asking my
Speaker 1: mom why we had never had a black president, and
Speaker 1: then she told me that would be me. And then
Speaker 1: it became a situation where I have a black friend
Speaker 1: from Nigeria who's kicked out of the Mount Greenwood neighborhood
Speaker 1: where I went to school because they were spray painting
Speaker 1: go back to Africa in words. So, as you this
Speaker 1: is all before like the age of eleven. So I
Speaker 1: just kept having his recurrent theme, and my mom and
Speaker 1: dad were always in my life, like I wanted to
Speaker 1: go to Denny's one time, as the readers will find out,
Speaker 1: and my mom was like, no, we ain't going because
Speaker 1: they don't serve black people, you know. So this all
Speaker 1: comes to a culmination in where my wife and I
Speaker 1: are at a festival in Chicago. Okay, hold on, hold on,
Speaker 1: I don't want to get to that yet. You have
Speaker 1: a motto earnest Black children will perform better if they
Speaker 1: have pride in their history. Yes, And I would like
Speaker 1: to preface this by saying that we already know these
Speaker 1: things to be true, because, for example, I saw a
Speaker 1: study today by Harvard and they said the reason why
Speaker 1: there are so many black people in prison is because
Speaker 1: DONA systemic racism. So we know these things already. My
Speaker 1: life is a testament. John's life is a testament. Your
Speaker 1: life is a testament to it. Your kids are as well.
Speaker 1: So this Harvard study says that when black children are
Speaker 1: taught to have racial pride, they perform better academically because
Speaker 1: they are aware of the hurdles they may come in
Speaker 1: contact with. And also, to me, it gives them pride
Speaker 1: to understanding that it's not their fault that these hurdles exist,
Speaker 1: but they exist, and this is how you work your
Speaker 1: way around them or dismantle them completely. I want to
Speaker 1: talk about some of the passages in the book that
Speaker 1: really resonated with me, and I want to start with
Speaker 1: a quote that you had in the book that we
Speaker 1: all that most black people are familiar with, and that
Speaker 1: is Malcolm X, question is who taught you how to
Speaker 1: hate yourself? And that kind of in your book that
Speaker 1: leads you into the discussion about where this all began
Speaker 1: with slavery. Talked to us a little bit about that,
Speaker 1: and you know, I have to say, Malcolm Max is
Speaker 1: probably to me the most important historical figure because I think,
Speaker 1: you know, he taught me how to value myself as
Speaker 1: a person. And what I discussed in that book is
Speaker 1: just really how I believe that we as African Americans,
Speaker 1: as black people in this country, were taught systemically to
Speaker 1: hate ourselves. Like we're at a place now where we're
Speaker 1: not technically on the plantation, but everything that we're taught
Speaker 1: and fed and bombarded with allows us to stay there mentally.
Speaker 1: And if you don't intervene with the child, a black child,
Speaker 1: then they're going to fall within that system just regularly.
Speaker 1: That's how we're supposed to be set up. If you
Speaker 1: think about the areas of which we populate the most
Speaker 1: in this system, which I'll talk about in the book,
Speaker 1: we're overrepresented in the prison population, we're overrepresented in in
Speaker 1: in sports, basketball, football, ramping, you know, but we don't
Speaker 1: have ownership in these companies you know. So my thing
Speaker 1: is if we if they quote allowed us to get
Speaker 1: into these systems without any barriers anymore, you know, shout
Speaker 1: out to Jackie Robinson, Bill Russel and people like that,
Speaker 1: and we completely dominated, and then what would happen if
Speaker 1: we knew what we could actually be outside of that?
Speaker 1: Because that's the trick they play. We were talking about
Speaker 1: this yesterday, John, the fact that we can only go
Speaker 1: as far as we exposed to because we always see
Speaker 1: the rappers on TV, or we see the athletes on TV.
Speaker 1: We don't understand that the person sitting up in that
Speaker 1: box office, the box were signing the check has way
Speaker 1: more money than the whole team. And feel free to
Speaker 1: jump in, John, you said, I see you shaking your head. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that it's important. One thing that I always
Speaker 1: try to tell kids, but especially their parents, a child's
Speaker 1: gaze is only as far as their parents, their family,
Speaker 1: and the people in their community if they the people
Speaker 1: in the community actually want to give the information. If
Speaker 1: the community's gaze is limited, then the child's gaze is
Speaker 1: going to be limited. And so and unfortunately, one problem
Speaker 1: we do have to say, we don't share information with
Speaker 1: one another. A lot of times there are just simple,
Speaker 1: you know, things that you think as menial that could
Speaker 1: change the life of someone else if they just had
Speaker 1: that tidbit of information or encouragement. So I think we
Speaker 1: need to really work to get the information to our
Speaker 1: youth so that to broaden their kind of spectrum, if
Speaker 1: you will, on what could be possible and show up
Speaker 1: so that they can see that it is possible. You know,
Speaker 1: kids believe what they see. Okay, So this brings us
Speaker 1: to another quote I want to read from the book Earnest,
Speaker 1: and that is on page one eighty. You say, if
Speaker 1: history has taught us anything, it's that racist whites will
Speaker 1: continue their destructive tendencies. So what must change is our approach.
Speaker 1: We must change our perception of ourselves. Are you beautiful
Speaker 1: to yourself? Do you love your skin, your nose, your lips,
Speaker 1: your hips? Do you hate your august, volutinous parentheses, nappy hair?
Speaker 1: What do you see when you look in the mirror?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like, how can we expect to be
Speaker 1: treated with dignity and respect if we don't truly believe
Speaker 1: that we deserve it? And so do the kids really
Speaker 1: and honestly trust that they are worthy? I would answer
Speaker 1: that adamantly with the no, and again it goes back
Speaker 1: to the program. And this is also as connected to
Speaker 1: the Malcolm X quote you brought up earlier. When we
Speaker 1: grow up, everything we hear about black is negative. Think
Speaker 1: about the scene in the Malcolm X movie. You think
Speaker 1: about the fact that we're not speaking our first language.
Speaker 1: So when you see the connotation of what black is
Speaker 1: in the English dictionary, it always means something negative, Whereas
Speaker 1: when we're talking about ancient Egypt or kimm It, it
Speaker 1: meant something glorious and regal. So when we when we
Speaker 1: crack jokes as kids, you know we're talking, oh you dark,
Speaker 1: you as dark as this, your your wife knows, your
Speaker 1: big lips, your your bogus hair. Everything that we used
Speaker 1: to demean each other is a relation and directly to
Speaker 1: our natural African esthetic. And I think that's something that again,
Speaker 1: when we're pushing our kids through the school system, if
Speaker 1: we don't intervene, like I was saying before, then they're
Speaker 1: that's all they're gonna believe. Our kids are saying, you know,
Speaker 1: the pledge every day, even on Zoom virtual calls, but
Speaker 1: they're not making a pledge to themselves. They're not making
Speaker 1: a pledge to their blackness. They're not seeing positive attributes.
Speaker 1: And again, for me, if we don't have something that's
Speaker 1: I think from right now at this point in history,
Speaker 1: what we understand is that we have to have some
Speaker 1: type of at home schooling systems set up that's in
Speaker 1: conjunction with what they learned. So it's like, Yo, what
Speaker 1: did you learn in history class today? Oh, Columbus say
Speaker 1: of the ocean blowing fort Nity two. Let me tell
Speaker 1: you what he did right after? Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 1: That's that's so true because you know, I have to
Speaker 1: use the Jewish culture as an example. You know, the
Speaker 1: Jewish culture is not putting the responsibility on public education
Speaker 1: or any private school to teach their children their history
Speaker 1: and their religion, you know. And I just honest, we
Speaker 1: feel like we need to have our own education programs
Speaker 1: for our children. Whether it's because this is all by
Speaker 1: design us not knowing our history and not understanding who
Speaker 1: we are and where we came from is by design,
Speaker 1: you know, And we've got to be responsible for taking
Speaker 1: control over the information that goes into our kids ads.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that, it's also it's before you
Speaker 1: even start to school, just to have a comment, just
Speaker 1: a regular conversation with your child. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of these children's their minds are not being stretched, if
Speaker 1: you will, by their own parents or their family members.
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest mistakes that a lot
Speaker 1: of black parents make is believing that because their child
Speaker 1: has a black parents and black siblings, they must love
Speaker 1: black people automatically. And that is not the case. Just
Speaker 1: because you grew up in a black family doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you love black people because the society and and the
Speaker 1: all the imagery and so on and so forth, and
Speaker 1: the media has taught you not to love your people
Speaker 1: before you even realize it, you know, So make sure
Speaker 1: you know, making sure that we're able to just have
Speaker 1: an honest dialogue with our children. I think this book
Speaker 1: is so great because a lot of our history that
Speaker 1: we have here, a lot of times was not talked
Speaker 1: about by our our seniors, if you will, because if
Speaker 1: they came trauma, and they didn't want to talk about
Speaker 1: it because they would relive the trauma. But unfortunately, we
Speaker 1: get the short end of the stick because we don't
Speaker 1: get our history. But in order for us to get it,
Speaker 1: they have to relive that trauma. And so it's always
Speaker 1: that conflict there. A lot of our great grandparents and
Speaker 1: grandparents wouldn't tell us about how they had to flee
Speaker 1: to get out of the South to make it north
Speaker 1: for a better life because it was traumatic for them.
Speaker 1: But because it is, you get a group of you
Speaker 1: get a generation of kids that don't appreciate what's done
Speaker 1: for them to get them where they are. So true,
Speaker 1: so true. So, Ernest, you drafted a lesson that you
Speaker 1: describe as the lesson of your career, and it was
Speaker 1: around the Trayvon Martin murder. Yeah. So you know what's
Speaker 1: what's interesting about that whole experience was now, when I
Speaker 1: look in hindsight, I devoted five chapters to the trauma
Speaker 1: that I dealt with surrounded black men and woman being killed.
Speaker 1: And this work when I released it a couple of
Speaker 1: months before this whole incident happened with Black Lives Matter.
Speaker 1: So when I was talking about in that situation right
Speaker 1: there with Trayvon Martin, it was one of the first
Speaker 1: times that story had been reached on a global scale.
Speaker 1: It was something even though we didn't have video, it
Speaker 1: was something that everybody heard about. We were all watching
Speaker 1: the NBA All Star Game and then we all heard
Speaker 1: the call when we heard the screams and the gunshots,
Speaker 1: and I just remember that was like my first and
Speaker 1: second year teaching. Having to go to work the next
Speaker 1: day with that weight on me was something I just
Speaker 1: couldn't really fathom. The only other time I had heard
Speaker 1: something like that or seeing something similar was with the
Speaker 1: Oscar Grant situation, and I was still in college. So
Speaker 1: we can go to class and talk about it. So
Speaker 1: for me is I don't care what I have planned today.
Speaker 1: My mindset, my kids mindset is the most important thing
Speaker 1: right now. And again that's something that we're doing often
Speaker 1: discussing school. We have physical education, but not mental education.
Speaker 1: So I went there and it was like a spurred
Speaker 1: the moment thing. And maybe that's why I think I'm
Speaker 1: I'd be able to talk about things on the drop
Speaker 1: of a dime because I just said, what can I
Speaker 1: do to make this a real to them? So I
Speaker 1: grabbed the box and I typed up a sheet real quick,
Speaker 1: and it was like, basically, you know, you know what
Speaker 1: it what it means to be trade Val Martin, what
Speaker 1: it means to be a black young man, what it
Speaker 1: means to be a black young lady, and it was
Speaker 1: a powerful demonstration and they put these in the box
Speaker 1: and it was something that they were able to embrace.
Speaker 1: But I always remember that student of mine adamantly against
Speaker 1: it because he's like, well, look we you know, our
Speaker 1: dudes dying every day in the streets. Why does this
Speaker 1: matter to me? Why should I care? And I really
Speaker 1: distinctively remember hearing that, because, for one, it did make
Speaker 1: me even question that because we're hearing about all the
Speaker 1: death in Chicago. There was a Dairy and Alburt situation,
Speaker 1: Blair Hope situation, some of these caught on camera with
Speaker 1: the c T, A buss and everything, and I really
Speaker 1: have to think about it. And then, you know, you
Speaker 1: hear that all the time, now what about black on
Speaker 1: black crime? And I had to come to the conclusion
Speaker 1: to let him know, it's an entire system, young man.
Speaker 1: What you see happen in tray Von Martin and George
Speaker 1: Zimmerman is the same reason why you walk and get
Speaker 1: killed in your neighborhood and nobody cares, the same reason
Speaker 1: why guns and drugs are allowed to be funneled into
Speaker 1: your neighborhood without anybody care. But just to wrap it
Speaker 1: up and bring it back around. I just felt that
Speaker 1: they had to see something and feels something to let
Speaker 1: them know what they are and what they aren't. Because
Speaker 1: when they put up those gun range pictures of Trayvon
Speaker 1: Martin with a hoodie, and they put up a picture
Speaker 1: of him grimace and like a child having fun as
Speaker 1: if that was something bad, or they tried to talk
Speaker 1: about him with marijuana used just to demonize him. It's
Speaker 1: just age old pattern of trying to criminalize as us
Speaker 1: to justify their pernicious activity. So I felt like that
Speaker 1: was like my the beginning of me saying, you know what,
Speaker 1: whenever we have something like this happen, we're talking about
Speaker 1: it right now. The lesson will happen eventually. But what
Speaker 1: was the actual lesson? What did you actually have them do?
Speaker 1: So they had it was a sheet of paper and
Speaker 1: they had to write down, you know, I am Trey
Speaker 1: von Martin. Then they put a bunch of positive adjectives
Speaker 1: under that. So it was something that they can see.
Speaker 1: You know, it's something that I do. Even now when
Speaker 1: I'm speaking, it's who are you actually? The media says
Speaker 1: you're this, Yeah, but you are like Trey von Martin,
Speaker 1: you are actually this and just because that man wanted
Speaker 1: to follow you home, and just because that person thought
Speaker 1: you were a criminal, that is not You are not
Speaker 1: the archetype. You don't actually fit the profile. And they
Speaker 1: were actually able to put this in a box and
Speaker 1: it was something that they can see as you take
Speaker 1: it out afterwards. You are someone who actually is outside
Speaker 1: of that box, that paradigm, in that stereotype. That lesson
Speaker 1: about the trade Von Martin. I think about what's going
Speaker 1: on in the world to day, and I feel like
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but I feel like it's something
Speaker 1: that still applies today. Do you still use that in
Speaker 1: the classroom today? You're accurate in the fact that it's
Speaker 1: still irrelevant, restructured it quite quite a bit now because everything,
Speaker 1: of course is digital and virtual right now. But it's
Speaker 1: still something I do, and because I speak to a
Speaker 1: lot of kids now in the area and across the country,
Speaker 1: I'll do something similar with that activity, especially if I'm
Speaker 1: working with a smaller group. And I guess the most
Speaker 1: disheartening thing is the fact that it is very relevant
Speaker 1: and I think we can see it now more than
Speaker 1: ever because and I've had to stop myself. I don't
Speaker 1: watch those videos anymore. Because it does something to my psyche.
Speaker 1: But again, if our kids are always seeing this and
Speaker 1: then they're watching, you know, violent movies, playing violent video games, again,
Speaker 1: juxtaposed that to what the media portrays us as athletes
Speaker 1: and criminals, and we're all in a sense we're often
Speaker 1: choosing that same thing on our own will. So it's
Speaker 1: definitely relevant, unfortunately, but I'm hoping that it it impacts
Speaker 1: us in a way that allows us to research our
Speaker 1: history more and portray your ourselves different too. And what's
Speaker 1: even more sad is that now look at all the
Speaker 1: different names that you can insert into that lesson. Besides
Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin, you can use George Floyd, you can use
Speaker 1: any number of names. So it's just really discardening. And
Speaker 1: that's that's still a small percentage of all of all,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's I think that's what a lot
Speaker 1: of people also don't realize. That could be like ten
Speaker 1: of what what has really transpired with police mutality. We
Speaker 1: only know those because that was captured on film. It
Speaker 1: was captured on film. Absolutely, So now I want to
Speaker 1: move on to discuss the hate crime that you and
Speaker 1: your wife were victims of. Tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: about that earnest and you said that actually went viral
Speaker 1: in the media. Can you describe the incident for us? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So just to provide some context, it was four years ago.
Speaker 1: My wife and I had just gone back from Jamaica,
Speaker 1: and it was like around the time of July. There
Speaker 1: have been a lot of incidents just now. There was
Speaker 1: Philando cast Stile who was shot on Facebook live. There
Speaker 1: was an Alton Sterling who was murdered for selling bootleg
Speaker 1: CDs in Louisiana. So we wanted to take our mind
Speaker 1: off of that hysteria. And then we also knew in
Speaker 1: the back of our head that we had to go
Speaker 1: back to school as soon as teachers. So July thirty,
Speaker 1: if we go to this festival in Chicago, and then
Speaker 1: we're having a great time as music, as you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people, as food, all of that. So
Speaker 1: towards the end of the event, we're decided to head
Speaker 1: out and I noticed there was an open being bad game.
Speaker 1: That's called cornhole. So usually at a function like this
Speaker 1: you can't really find that station being open, so I
Speaker 1: realized that we walked over there, I noticed they only
Speaker 1: had one being bag, so that was the issue, of course,
Speaker 1: So I looked to my left and then I noticed
Speaker 1: there's a group of four people too black and two white,
Speaker 1: and they had about fifteen of them. So in my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, Okay, they grabbed it because nobody else was there,
Speaker 1: but now we're here, maybe they're off from so we're
Speaker 1: looking for some other ones and they didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: A few minutes later, somebody throws when it goes very far.
Speaker 1: My wife and are looking at each other because it
Speaker 1: went so far. It was in the other area where
Speaker 1: people were sitting, and they didn't grab it. After about
Speaker 1: five or six minutes, so my wife goes over there
Speaker 1: to grab it, and our mindset is we all paid
Speaker 1: to get in here. We didn't bring this game, so
Speaker 1: you didn't grab you didn't grab it, so it's ours,
Speaker 1: you know. So she grabs it, and as soon as
Speaker 1: she comes back over the area, there's a white lady
Speaker 1: from that group who like approaches us as if she
Speaker 1: was about to attack us. Instantly, she walks over there
Speaker 1: and she started screaming at us and and saying that
Speaker 1: you could have just asked to play, and it was
Speaker 1: a very hostile tone. Same thing we get on our
Speaker 1: like our students. They don't talk back to some cheechers
Speaker 1: like because they sense an attitude. So I sensed the attitude.
Speaker 1: My wife is standing right beside me on my left
Speaker 1: hand side, and I'm like, no, you're not getting it back.
Speaker 1: That's disrespectful. And then she calls my wife a hole,
Speaker 1: and that's just like, you went up another level. Now
Speaker 1: you're you're really tripping. You don't lost your line. And
Speaker 1: and then at that point, her black friends start to
Speaker 1: get closer to us, and she's calling over for the police.
Speaker 1: So again in my mind, Philando cast Steel outside Sterling
Speaker 1: Trey by Martin Sandra Blane, all of these people and
Speaker 1: she's calling the cops over and then she begins to
Speaker 1: call us the N word over and over. You're acting
Speaker 1: like a bunch of niggers. So in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, this,
Speaker 1: did she really just call us that over this? So
Speaker 1: I know my rights. I know somebody you can't actually
Speaker 1: say that, unfortunately, depending on the tone. So I knew
Speaker 1: it wasn't against the law. So my mindset was as
Speaker 1: a black person, really my defense is recording it to
Speaker 1: document and show the world who this person is so
Speaker 1: we can hopefully avoid her in all aspects of life.
Speaker 1: So I take out my phone. She slaps it out
Speaker 1: my hand and we're yelling at each other. I pick
Speaker 1: it up, luckily and fell in the grass and I
Speaker 1: stopped the press record again and she's going crazy, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, give me your name, give me everything, because
Speaker 1: you obviously don't care that it's on camera. And again
Speaker 1: her black friends are coming closer, her white friends all
Speaker 1: the way in the back. Then he walked towards us,
Speaker 1: and then she turns and she spits on us. And
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of the end. And you actually
Speaker 1: were able to take this to court where you not.
Speaker 1: So what happened was after that event, not to to
Speaker 1: spoil it too much for the reader, but so I
Speaker 1: take it, I get him, I go on my car.
Speaker 1: We're about to leave with just delirious at this point
Speaker 1: because we don't understand what just happened. I found out
Speaker 1: that I had it on a camera, so I put
Speaker 1: the videos together, posted it online. By the time we
Speaker 1: got home, about an hour away, forty thousand views, fifty
Speaker 1: thousand views, we had all the information that was by
Speaker 1: now October first found a police report. She gets arrested.
Speaker 1: Within two months, two and a half months or whatever,
Speaker 1: and I started the long process. But everything I got
Speaker 1: came from people online, Black, white, Hispanic who came together
Speaker 1: and they also even knew her from high school. Several
Speaker 1: of these people who said she was just as negative,
Speaker 1: just as toxic and racist in the past, and they
Speaker 1: were glad to help me out. So we took it
Speaker 1: to the court October. You know, it's interesting that she
Speaker 1: was there with other black people who did not intervene.
Speaker 1: That is troubling. That that is troubling, John, What did
Speaker 1: you want to say about that? I see you then shake.
Speaker 1: That's when he was when he set on the story.
Speaker 1: That's the first thing that you know, as he says,
Speaker 1: and her black friends, And in my head, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what kind of black friends does she have that's gonna
Speaker 1: let her? You know, first and foremost, I wouldn't. Even
Speaker 1: if I had a friend that was just acting crazy
Speaker 1: in public, I would pull him to the side and
Speaker 1: be like, you need to get your life right fast.
Speaker 1: But on top of that, for to get belligerent enough
Speaker 1: to call racial slurs and then to actually spit on someone,
Speaker 1: for her to allow her to spit on someone that
Speaker 1: is one of your people, again, it goes to that
Speaker 1: psyche of this is supposed to your friend, they just
Speaker 1: spat on someone of your race and called them the
Speaker 1: derogatory things regarding your race. But you just sitting, You
Speaker 1: just sat and stood there. So what does that? What
Speaker 1: does it say just about the psyche of a lot
Speaker 1: of black people and how they handle things. You know,
Speaker 1: I think sometimes they probably were just as traumatized as
Speaker 1: Earnest and you know, and just didn't know what to do.
Speaker 1: And it also brings up like just the disconnect that
Speaker 1: we have as a community. That's the only term I
Speaker 1: can think of, because I thought about this last night,
Speaker 1: like what is the word that I'm looking for? And
Speaker 1: I can just come up with disconnect? But is it?
Speaker 1: Is there something? Is there another term that you guys
Speaker 1: can think of? Yeah, it's absolute assimilation, I believe looking
Speaker 1: at those two individuals now on hindsight, because again I'm
Speaker 1: somebody who I'm there for us regardless, So I just
Speaker 1: couldn't believe and you can tell them my voice, But
Speaker 1: I think that some of us believe that by hanging
Speaker 1: with people of another race, which is fine, but I
Speaker 1: think sometimes we lose ourselves with that. If you're not
Speaker 1: careful like, to me, if you don't know who you are,
Speaker 1: what do you bring into the table. So for them,
Speaker 1: they probably thought by kicking it with her, they weren't
Speaker 1: quote unquote black anymore. And you know what really appault
Speaker 1: me was the black brother because he was the only
Speaker 1: guy in that click. So I'm I'm looking at him
Speaker 1: really the whole I'm looking like, dude, are you gonna
Speaker 1: do something? Are you gonna say something? And then the
Speaker 1: lady on the side of the black friend, she was like,
Speaker 1: it didn't boy, it doesn't bother me. That means that
Speaker 1: you're trying to remove yourself from this experience. I don't
Speaker 1: care how you talk, how you look, whatever, that's fine,
Speaker 1: but you were still black in this country. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: But to them, it's not always that way. And for
Speaker 1: them to make that excuse to me shows like you
Speaker 1: said that disconnect and I steered away from calling people,
Speaker 1: you know, derogatory names like that. But it's to me,
Speaker 1: you're selling out your culture to try to act with
Speaker 1: yes to somebody else's culture that doesn't really want you well.
Speaker 1: And the problem that we that we run into is
Speaker 1: that being forget that from a very young age, us
Speaker 1: as black individuals in America are taught in programmed to
Speaker 1: be white adjacent. We're not taught to be black adjacent.
Speaker 1: We're taught to be white adjacent. So we in in
Speaker 1: in retrospect, you can't be surprised that these black people
Speaker 1: allow this white person to do what she did, because
Speaker 1: we're programmed to be white adjacent. Describe what you mean
Speaker 1: by white adjacent adhering to European standards in order to
Speaker 1: navigate through society safely and efficiently. And we're taught at
Speaker 1: a very young age to speak a certain way, to
Speaker 1: act a certain way, you know, not to be threatening
Speaker 1: to to white individuals, you know, of course, and a
Speaker 1: lot of it was done because our parents wanted us
Speaker 1: to be safe and they wanted us to excel. But
Speaker 1: in the in the same at the same time, a
Speaker 1: lot of times they stunted our growth as black people
Speaker 1: learning to love ourselves in the process. And and this
Speaker 1: brings up the topic that you describe earnest as racial
Speaker 1: battle fatigue, which some people may just describe as PTSD.
Speaker 1: But no matter what the label is, it creates a
Speaker 1: slippery slope when it comes to mental health in the
Speaker 1: black community. Talk to us a little bit about what
Speaker 1: you mean by that. Definitely no. I got that turn
Speaker 1: from my brother Phelipe Matthews and of course shout out
Speaker 1: the Dr Jordan de Grews with post traumatic slave syndrome.
Speaker 1: It's something, it's something that discusses how as we traverse
Speaker 1: through American society we often deal with racism, microaggressions, overt
Speaker 1: aggressions constantly throughout our life. Like we're acting, we're fighting.
Speaker 1: As soon as you walk out the door. You're fighting,
Speaker 1: whether it be eventually or whether it be something that's
Speaker 1: actually happening to you, and you just become so depressed
Speaker 1: to a level whereas I can't do anything to survive
Speaker 1: and get by. If you think about the black experience,
Speaker 1: whether you live in the suburbs, whether you live in
Speaker 1: a black urban area or whatever you're you're dealing with it,
Speaker 1: you're dealing with constantly being outside. I promise you, Like
Speaker 1: when I used to go for a jag in my
Speaker 1: suburban area right now, in the back of my mind
Speaker 1: was always it's something gonna happen to me, or it
Speaker 1: was always I need to stay in my subdivision and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna or if when I'm running, I'm gonna stay
Speaker 1: on the busy road, because if I go down somebody
Speaker 1: else just because I want to see something different, they
Speaker 1: might say I've never seen that, dude, Let me call somebody,
Speaker 1: And then that fear gets confirmed with the mod arevery
Speaker 1: and again racial battle fatigue. What can I do? Where
Speaker 1: can I go? It's almost something that again leads to
Speaker 1: learn helplessness. Why why should I even try? And the
Speaker 1: problem with this is it's not that we don't all
Speaker 1: deal with it. Our kids don't realize they're dealing with it.
Speaker 1: It's like you're getting a hit and you're getting knocked
Speaker 1: into a corner boxing and you can't see where the
Speaker 1: punch is coming from. Now, if you've got like Tyson
Speaker 1: in front of me, if I can see him, at
Speaker 1: least I can run from it. Yeah. So take all
Speaker 1: of that and put on top of it the lack
Speaker 1: of jobs, you know what I mean, Now, the pandemic,
Speaker 1: you know. So there's the stress just from daily life
Speaker 1: in the black community. And that's why I think it's
Speaker 1: so important for us to know our history, because I'm
Speaker 1: at a point now unfortunately when I see these stories
Speaker 1: happen again, I don't want to say none, because I
Speaker 1: do feel it, but I'm not surprised. It's like you
Speaker 1: said before one of the posts in the book, like
Speaker 1: I understand these patterns. I don't expect this this country
Speaker 1: to operate differently when they've adapted in every way slavery
Speaker 1: so called ins and transition to share cropping, you know,
Speaker 1: Jim Crow so called in a transition to mass incarceration,
Speaker 1: and now we're dealing with something else on a different level.
Speaker 1: So it's just something that we have to understand these patterns.
Speaker 1: So it's not that we won't feel bad, but it
Speaker 1: will say, look, this is gonna happen here, so we
Speaker 1: need to prepare for the inevitability and also at the
Speaker 1: same time build ourselves and build our community up. And
Speaker 1: that's what you know, That's why I think the work
Speaker 1: that both of you are doing is just so important,
Speaker 1: so important. Why do you feel like it's important to
Speaker 1: mentor our black youth, both of you. John, Let's start
Speaker 1: with you. We live in a society now where it
Speaker 1: is easy to be this individual you know, we're in a
Speaker 1: a very individualist society. It can be an oxymoron because
Speaker 1: we live this society where everybody is for themselves and
Speaker 1: they talk about how great I'm doing until something bad happens,
Speaker 1: and then they reach for the community and say where
Speaker 1: is the community? But they spend the whole life saying
Speaker 1: I'm an individual, so I don't need the community until
Speaker 1: you need them. And so I think that we need
Speaker 1: to start looking back at the community as a whole
Speaker 1: and saying where can I chip in. I know that
Speaker 1: it can be overwhelming because there's so much to do
Speaker 1: you you and you end up becoming paralyzed with the
Speaker 1: paradox of choice. There are so many choices that you
Speaker 1: could take that you just sit and look at all
Speaker 1: of them. It's like watching like turning on Netflix and
Speaker 1: alling through for forty five minutes, trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what you're gonna watch, and then just turning it off.
Speaker 1: Let me just let me just interject my feeling in
Speaker 1: this though, because I feel almost like there's so much
Speaker 1: devastation in the community. There's so much going on that
Speaker 1: you don't know where to begin, You don't know how
Speaker 1: to help, you don't know what you should be doing,
Speaker 1: Like you're just overwhelmed because there's just you feel like
Speaker 1: things are just falling apart. Yes, I think what you
Speaker 1: what we have to do is to just say, what
Speaker 1: knowledge do I have that I can share. Everybody knows something,
Speaker 1: you know. You don't have to know everything. You just
Speaker 1: have to know something and share it. You know, share
Speaker 1: your expertise, do work on this little thing you know.
Speaker 1: I don't have all the answers, but what I do
Speaker 1: know about I know about dance. I know how it
Speaker 1: connects people. I know how people react to it and
Speaker 1: how it's therapy. I also know, now that I've lived
Speaker 1: in New York and I've don't you know, wild and
Speaker 1: d old and dealt with people from all different walks
Speaker 1: of life and education levels, that our black children specifically
Speaker 1: are the sentates of black freedman. A lot of them
Speaker 1: have the grades to go to top schools and they're
Speaker 1: not sent So I'm saying, hey, I'm going in to
Speaker 1: let these children know you are worthy to go to
Speaker 1: these schools, and you should be applying to them, because
Speaker 1: it could be the difference between a child or not
Speaker 1: a child, but a young adult at twenty two years
Speaker 1: old making fifty thousand dollars coming out with a college
Speaker 1: degree or eighty thousand dollars, And with that eighty thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: there's a lot more They can do for their community.
Speaker 1: And I think John is a perfect example of what
Speaker 1: we mean by mentoring because so when we met again,
Speaker 1: this man flew in like he flew in. He wasn't
Speaker 1: getting paid. He flew in. We met, we set up
Speaker 1: a date and you could hear a pen drop, like
Speaker 1: we're talking thirty forty kids all and he's just he's
Speaker 1: sitting down, just talking. It's like, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: it's like an elder in the community. Everybody's gathered around
Speaker 1: and they were hanging on to everything a word. So
Speaker 1: it became something whereas, Okay, I'm gonna have you come
Speaker 1: back again. So then we started pulling kids. We gave him,
Speaker 1: you know, permission, slips, pulled him out of class. Now
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk to him during the school that did
Speaker 1: to meet a different target group, and it became just
Speaker 1: a thing where it's like now schooled is remote, he's
Speaker 1: in New York, We're meeting over zoom with our Black
Speaker 1: student Union. He wanted to come in with those meetings
Speaker 1: as well. So it was just something where you can
Speaker 1: see the difference he made, and he's hunt down these kids,
Speaker 1: he's reaching out to him, he's talking to him on
Speaker 1: his own personal time. And that's the testament to what
Speaker 1: we mean when it says give back to where you're from,
Speaker 1: because it truly takes a village. What were you working on, John,
Speaker 1: before the pandemic. I was just last November. I had
Speaker 1: finally brought to fruition my nonprofit called Step into the Light.
Speaker 1: And when I first started that program, it was to
Speaker 1: create a Steppers program for black youth, to take a
Speaker 1: hundred black kids in my city and joeligat Illinois and
Speaker 1: teach them to dance with one another. Again, that is
Speaker 1: one of the things that we lost, unfortunately to hip hop.
Speaker 1: You know, when hip hop began to usher in, it
Speaker 1: diffused the idea of partnered hand dancing, you know, and
Speaker 1: it starts to phase it on out. And so I
Speaker 1: realized that this dance number one is healing to one another.
Speaker 1: These kids need to connect because there is a social
Speaker 1: disconnect because of social media. They don't know how to
Speaker 1: interact with one another and they and so when you
Speaker 1: shake hands, when you hug one another, and when you
Speaker 1: dance with one another, it brings more of a community.
Speaker 1: But then COVID happened there with that other window. So
Speaker 1: then I started my program next level where my job
Speaker 1: is to make sure that black youth in this city,
Speaker 1: specifically the descendants of black freedmen, are making our given
Speaker 1: counsel if you will, and guidance when it's time to
Speaker 1: choose careers and choose higher education. Make sure that they
Speaker 1: have access to apprenticeships and internships and and all that
Speaker 1: is available, because lot of times they just don't know
Speaker 1: what's out there. So I was gonna say, not only
Speaker 1: are you educating the kids, but you have to educate
Speaker 1: the parents too, because they just don't have the information.
Speaker 1: You really have to educate the parents first because a
Speaker 1: lot of parents don't understand how bright their child is.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's it's I've seen time and time again where
Speaker 1: parents will work day and night to provide everything for
Speaker 1: their child, and their child will have straight AIS and
Speaker 1: bees high three point four point grade proint average and
Speaker 1: then just send them to any school or even a
Speaker 1: junior college, not realizing that they could go to Harvard, Yale, Princeton,
Speaker 1: Howard University Florida and them, you know, some of the
Speaker 1: top schools across the country that are ready and waiting
Speaker 1: for them, but they're the kids are not being senternt
Speaker 1: How do you feel like since the pandemic, how have
Speaker 1: you been able to maintain your relationships with your students?
Speaker 1: How is that working for you having to teach online? Admittedly,
Speaker 1: it's been very difficult. If actually a couple of different phases.
Speaker 1: The first time was in March, of course, when everything
Speaker 1: shut down and we were struggling to get our kids,
Speaker 1: you know, show up and turn their work, and we
Speaker 1: weren't really sure what that Zoom schedule was gonna look like.
Speaker 1: And that was the new school year has started. We're
Speaker 1: like four weeks and we have a consistent schedule. And
Speaker 1: I will say this, you just never know what you're
Speaker 1: being prepared for because I have been involved. It's um
Speaker 1: mentoring group, this this accountability group, I should say. And
Speaker 1: we would get up on Zoom every morning breathe University
Speaker 1: and we would talk about our goals and things like that.
Speaker 1: And I have been doing that since teen. So now
Speaker 1: when I'm on Zoom every morning with these kids for
Speaker 1: four or five hours, it was really nothing for me
Speaker 1: to switch in terms of getting them engage, find a
Speaker 1: different ways to connect, you know, playing music through my speaker.
Speaker 1: I'm allowning with them to pick the music that we play.
Speaker 1: I got you know, I have a bill that I
Speaker 1: ring every time the class starts. So I got my
Speaker 1: whole little set up here. So now I will say this,
Speaker 1: nown the issue is I bring the energy, but the
Speaker 1: issue is you miss out on that connection. I can't
Speaker 1: high five a kid. I can't. Yeah, there are certain
Speaker 1: kids that still don't want to show their face. So
Speaker 1: I'm finding different ways to be creative. I'm telling kids, Okay,
Speaker 1: let's play a game. Everybody screen off. Now. If you
Speaker 1: can't relate to this, turn your screen on. They get
Speaker 1: caught up and they're like old, snap, gotta cut it
Speaker 1: back off. So just different ways like that and being
Speaker 1: able to conference with them helps. But I will say this,
Speaker 1: it's an empty feeling because at the end of the
Speaker 1: day you're not able to have that conversation with them.
Speaker 1: As they leave, you're not able to see your former
Speaker 1: kids in the hallway, and when that last bill rings metaphorically,
Speaker 1: you're just sitting in your office like okay. And I've
Speaker 1: shared this with John a lot. This man, it's rough.
Speaker 1: It's rough. It's really rough. And I will say the
Speaker 1: only benefit is you do give a little more time
Speaker 1: in the morning and your day ends early. But with
Speaker 1: that said, it adds another weapon to our repertoire because
Speaker 1: if we can reach kids this way, to me, we
Speaker 1: can do anything as a community, you know. And I
Speaker 1: really have to give both of you kudos, you know
Speaker 1: for the work that you're doing. I really do because
Speaker 1: it is so important. Like you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to sound corny, but the kids are our future, like
Speaker 1: for real, you know, and we got to take care
Speaker 1: of them. And I want you to go back a
Speaker 1: little bit, Earnest, just and talk about how because when
Speaker 1: you first entered college, you you didn't go to college
Speaker 1: to become a teacher, So how did that become your path? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I was actually I was thinking about this yesterday.
Speaker 1: The reason why I didn't fully succumb to wanting to
Speaker 1: be an athlete, although for a big part of my
Speaker 1: life I did want to be a basketball player. I
Speaker 1: always had the parallel narrative to me was you're going
Speaker 1: to college. My parents said, you're going to college. You're
Speaker 1: going to college. So whether you play sports or whatever,
Speaker 1: you're going to school. So once those hoop dreams fizzled,
Speaker 1: I still know what was going knew I was going
Speaker 1: to school, but it was like, what am I about
Speaker 1: to pick? What am I going to study? Now? Just
Speaker 1: so what happens. My mom is an educator, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, my other is an educator. So I have
Speaker 1: a a come from a lineage of people who taught
Speaker 1: in and believe in education. But I still wasn't thinking
Speaker 1: about it. My mindset was I'm the friend people call
Speaker 1: to vent and I just listened. I say, yeah, uh huh,
Speaker 1: I understand, yep, uh huh. So I'm like, maybe I
Speaker 1: would be a good psychologist. You know, I didn't know,
Speaker 1: you know, and for lack of it, I would say,
Speaker 1: like Dr Phiel didn't look like me, but I saw
Speaker 1: him on TV, so I'm like, hey, that might work,
Speaker 1: So maybe a psychologist. So I went to school first semester.
Speaker 1: I'm doing horrible and I'm too involved and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm going to parties. I'm playing basketball, still kicking it
Speaker 1: with my friends, were playing video games, have a tournaments.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just everything. And then when I have
Speaker 1: a test, I'll look at my notes, like literally, I
Speaker 1: look at them, I read them over and I say
Speaker 1: I'm ready. Now I worked in high school, but I'm
Speaker 1: taking tests and I promise you in my math class,
Speaker 1: my grade got lower every single test, and then and
Speaker 1: then and she will put your grade like at the top,
Speaker 1: so you can see yourself just flunking. And then in
Speaker 1: my psychology class, which is my major, I wasn't doing
Speaker 1: well either, and I was meeting with the professor. So
Speaker 1: after I did bad, I was on probation and I
Speaker 1: started to reevaluate some things. The disappointment. I have more
Speaker 1: disappointment than myself than my family did. In some ways,
Speaker 1: I feel like they knew I would bounce back, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I believe that honestly. So I
Speaker 1: began to think about what can I do? So I
Speaker 1: dropped my major. I started taking history black history courses
Speaker 1: out of curiosity and from I promise you, from that moment,
Speaker 1: I fell in love. Because every question I had that
Speaker 1: my parents couldn't necessarily answer or the encyclopedia couldn't my
Speaker 1: professor was saying it, Professor Lane, Professor Abdual outcome out
Speaker 1: and it was like, Wow, this is it. I need
Speaker 1: to be the person standing in front of them on
Speaker 1: that stage telling kids that you are great, you come
Speaker 1: from royalty, and this is what happened to us. This
Speaker 1: was the this is how they intervened in our progress.
Speaker 1: But this is what we need to do. And from
Speaker 1: that moment I was sold and I felt like the
Speaker 1: best way for me to give back to my community
Speaker 1: was to share information. And that's just teaching, I mean,
Speaker 1: and you could be an educator in various forms, like
Speaker 1: even having a podcast as you see you want to
Speaker 1: add to that, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I just feel, you know, let's get back to what
Speaker 1: this it for me. What the gist of the book
Speaker 1: was for me was the importance of knowing and understanding
Speaker 1: our black history, knowing and understanding that we don't know
Speaker 1: who we are. We don't know about this and that's
Speaker 1: by design, you know. We we were brought over here
Speaker 1: from all over the place. And because all of that history,
Speaker 1: all we get in school, all we got in school
Speaker 1: was American history that started with slavery, but that's not
Speaker 1: Black history. Black history does not start with slavery. And
Speaker 1: that is so important in developing and understanding and a
Speaker 1: sense of pride and who we are. And I just
Speaker 1: feel like once we have that, that will help, you know,
Speaker 1: guide us, you know, into living our lives differently and
Speaker 1: understand if we understand who we are as a people,
Speaker 1: as a culture, and it is not a slave. That's
Speaker 1: not all black history is. It's not. And that's part
Speaker 1: of the problem because even here in America, a lot
Speaker 1: of American culture is Black culture because we created it
Speaker 1: and it was taken from us. So getting a child
Speaker 1: to know, yes, about black history, what happened before slavery,
Speaker 1: but also to have a full, truthful understanding of what
Speaker 1: happened while we were here in North America, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot that happened here that they don't talk about
Speaker 1: and that we are not aware of. You know, we
Speaker 1: are made to believe in and perceived as the black
Speaker 1: people that don't have a culture, But we very much
Speaker 1: have a culture. This culture, our culture built, and our
Speaker 1: innovation and our resilience and our artistry built this country.
Speaker 1: All American music that was made in this America in
Speaker 1: America derives from black music created by us. You know. Actually,
Speaker 1: me and Mr Kram were just talking about the fact
Speaker 1: that most people black and white, we'll look at the
Speaker 1: banjo and say, oh, they play that in country music,
Speaker 1: But the banjo's from Africa. That is an African instrument
Speaker 1: that play in country music. We helped create that music,
Speaker 1: you know, even though we don't really associated and that
Speaker 1: is part of our American history as black people. So
Speaker 1: a lot all that has been kept from us in
Speaker 1: its time to awaken all that information, if you will,
Speaker 1: and when kids start to understand it and know it,
Speaker 1: they have the foundation to stand on, to go out
Speaker 1: into the world with their chests out and to reach high.
Speaker 1: So I want to go back just a little bit,
Speaker 1: just because we were talking about education and mentoring and
Speaker 1: since COVID, since the pandemic, you know, the disparity in
Speaker 1: the education system is so prevalent. So now you have
Speaker 1: you know, parents trying to teach their students at home,
Speaker 1: tease their kids at home, kids not having laptops. You
Speaker 1: want to speak on that earnest, like how difficult that
Speaker 1: must be for particularly the African American community that you
Speaker 1: know don't have the equipment, and you know that they
Speaker 1: need to make to make it happen. Definitely, I think
Speaker 1: what COVID did more than anything is it exposed America
Speaker 1: even more than it was already being exposed. When everything
Speaker 1: had to stop. It was almost like that burglar in
Speaker 1: the night and all of a sudden, the lights come
Speaker 1: on and he's just sitting there. You got me. I've
Speaker 1: been taking everything out your pocket, you know, I've been
Speaker 1: taking everything out your room, all your jewelry. It's like
Speaker 1: these again from two up until this point. I think
Speaker 1: people have to really understand that these they are law.
Speaker 1: This whole system is built on making us believe that
Speaker 1: we are inferior no other group of people, like all
Speaker 1: these traps are it's on. We're on the track, and
Speaker 1: all the traps are set up down and your path
Speaker 1: on the track, your path and your path. Only not
Speaker 1: to say other groups haven't had the hurdles, but we're
Speaker 1: talking every decade, every president, they're they're putting up certain
Speaker 1: barriers to stop us from progressing. And yet and still
Speaker 1: we persevere. But still there's a system. And we're only
Speaker 1: thirteen cent of the population, so it's very difficult. We're
Speaker 1: able to see now with COVID the health disparities. Now,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the school system and what they're feeding
Speaker 1: our kids that's not top of the line food. And
Speaker 1: then when they leave where they're going to the corner store,
Speaker 1: the chicken shop, that ye roll place. You know that
Speaker 1: then that there aren't places in our neighborhood that are
Speaker 1: actually feeding us. And we're talking spiritually, mentally, all of
Speaker 1: that type of stuff. We're talking about a school system
Speaker 1: that has not adapted since the early nineteen hundreds. If
Speaker 1: you look at a picture of schooling in like compared
Speaker 1: to now, kids are sitting down, you know, kids are
Speaker 1: every fifty minutes or forty five minutes like that. That's unbearable.
Speaker 1: I can't it's because I'll tell my students when we're
Speaker 1: doing zoom, I tell my students, I gotta stand up
Speaker 1: for a second. I don't know how y'all do it
Speaker 1: all day. You know, we've had issues where even in
Speaker 1: Chicago where I'm from, where the previous mayor round and
Speaker 1: Manuel closed fifty schools in about a year. So like
Speaker 1: these disparities were there, but people were king because we
Speaker 1: don't care that much as a society as a whole
Speaker 1: until we see the end result, until we see the tumor.
Speaker 1: But the cancer has been Simmary, we have old books.
Speaker 1: When I was student teaching, I was using economics books
Speaker 1: from the eighties and I started student teaching in two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten. Like when we started remote learning, all
Speaker 1: of these kids have to go pick up tablets because
Speaker 1: they don't always have access to these things in their neighborhood,
Speaker 1: in their schools. So to me, COVID has exposed us
Speaker 1: and we cannot. We have to make sure that we
Speaker 1: keep the cover off of it. Now, keep the light
Speaker 1: on the burglar, and let's make sure that we replace
Speaker 1: these institutions with something that's actually equitable, because the disparity
Speaker 1: was already there, particularly between public school and private school,
Speaker 1: and now it's just worse. Exactly exactly, Yeah, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: talked about it a little bit. But even if you
Speaker 1: don't have a big platform, what are the ways that
Speaker 1: you can still contribute besides giving monetarily. That's a great question.
Speaker 1: And again I'm going to circle back to a conversation
Speaker 1: that I had with John. I'm sure he's gonna chime in,
Speaker 1: but I believe that I think that sometimes we create
Speaker 1: hurdles that aren't even there in terms of giving back.
Speaker 1: So anybody can sign up for a local nonprofit organization
Speaker 1: to mentor somebody, you can yourself, contact your old school.
Speaker 1: Let me just say, let me just say that I
Speaker 1: did try to do that, I did not do well.
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm asking, What are the other ways
Speaker 1: that we can contribute because my experience with mentoring did
Speaker 1: not go well. You know, I just I just found
Speaker 1: out my my my sister was in a mentoring program,
Speaker 1: and I tried to participate in that, and I just
Speaker 1: I didn't do well with it. I'm not somebody who's
Speaker 1: very patient, and you know, you know, I'm not necessarily
Speaker 1: a kid friendly kind of person, and these were like
Speaker 1: preteen teenagers. Yeah, and I didn't do well. You know,
Speaker 1: you also have to know what your what your abilities,
Speaker 1: your capabilities and limitations are because because everything is not
Speaker 1: for you exactly exactly, you have to know if it's so.
Speaker 1: Even if you might not do well one on one,
Speaker 1: but you might be called in on like a panel
Speaker 1: of three or four people, you know, to talk to
Speaker 1: a group and just talk about your experiences, you might
Speaker 1: do well in that setting. You know, what I think
Speaker 1: to understand is that your story is actually twenty times
Speaker 1: more valuable than any money that you give. People need
Speaker 1: to hear people. These kids need to hear stories from
Speaker 1: people that look like them. So because children believe what
Speaker 1: they see. And so when they see someone that has
Speaker 1: made it out and made something of themselves and they
Speaker 1: talk about you know, the ins and outs and you know,
Speaker 1: mistakes they made and in opportunities they were given that
Speaker 1: they took. Well, then they say it's possible for me.
Speaker 1: Good point it was. This was such a great conversation. Really,
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much. Is there any last comments
Speaker 1: that you want to make before I move on to
Speaker 1: the last part of this podcast, Show up, put your
Speaker 1: shoes on and show up. I like that. I like
Speaker 1: that Earnest education begins at home. We have to take
Speaker 1: a hundred percent accountability because we cannot expect them to
Speaker 1: do better when we've seen the past. We've seen the
Speaker 1: rap sheet over the course over four a hundred years.
Speaker 1: So now let's do what we gotta do. There you go.
Speaker 1: So it's now time for my favorite segment. Wouldn't you
Speaker 1: like to know where you answer three rapid fire questions
Speaker 1: with the first phrase that comes to your mind. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna start with you, John. What books are you
Speaker 1: currently reading? What books? I'm actually currently reading Black History
Speaker 1: Saved My Life, and the next book and read is
Speaker 1: cast which is by the next book by its bookers
Speaker 1: that is on my list. What about you, Earnest? Of course,
Speaker 1: I'm reading Black History Saved My Life and by the
Speaker 1: way everybody. The book is available on Amazon and truly speaking,
Speaker 1: I really this is a book that I recommend that
Speaker 1: black families read, particularly if you have preteens and teenagers.
Speaker 1: It's a book that you can actually read with your
Speaker 1: child because it is really important. Go ahead, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just got finished reading Stamped. I'm also reading that Non
Speaker 1: Violent Stuff and Gets You Killed, which provides a counter
Speaker 1: narrative to the non violent protests. It just gives you
Speaker 1: a more nuanced view of how we were able to
Speaker 1: gain liberation throughout the American history. Interesting. Cool, Okay, John,
Speaker 1: what's a mottel you live by? We all play the fool,
Speaker 1: and we will play different fools throughout our lifetime, but
Speaker 1: the goal is never to play the same fool twice.
Speaker 1: Are you better come for it? There we go? I
Speaker 1: love that. Say that again. We all played the fool,
Speaker 1: and we will play different types of fools throughout our lifetime,
Speaker 1: but the goal is never to play the same fool twice. Ernest,
Speaker 1: what's the motel you live by? That's a hard actor follow,
Speaker 1: but for me, it is, if you don't know who
Speaker 1: you are, anyone can name you, and if anyone can
Speaker 1: name you, your answer to anything. I like that too.
Speaker 1: That's a good one. Wow. Yeah, y'all on one point today. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, So the last and final question, John, what's
Speaker 1: one thing you want to get off your chest? One
Speaker 1: thing that I want to get off my chest vote
Speaker 1: during the local elections, like you vote during the huge
Speaker 1: presidential elections. People do not understand that. You know, there's
Speaker 1: actually a lot of miseducation. A lot of our people
Speaker 1: feel that because they feel that the presidential election is rigged,
Speaker 1: that all voting is rigged in because of electoral college
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. But elections don't have
Speaker 1: anything to do with the electoral college. It is by
Speaker 1: popular vote, and so we need people to show up.
Speaker 1: And I think it is very um disheartening that people
Speaker 1: can talk all day about the president and of course
Speaker 1: the upper realm of politics, but they don't know who
Speaker 1: the people, the names of the people on their city
Speaker 1: council or their school board, you know that are making
Speaker 1: decisions that affect their lives directly every day. Show your
Speaker 1: asses up to the local election, earnest one thing you
Speaker 1: want to get off your chest? Yeah, I would definitely
Speaker 1: echo back. We have to turn up in our county
Speaker 1: where we both live turnout. Actually it's probably a little
Speaker 1: bit less and I think it might be between ten
Speaker 1: and and besides that, I would just say we have
Speaker 1: to vote for ourselves every day. So in between vote
Speaker 1: and every two years, every four years or six years
Speaker 1: for the Senate, we have to make sure that we
Speaker 1: have the same expectations for ourselves in our household, in
Speaker 1: our community, and again more than any other time in history,
Speaker 1: we have to really understand the importance of knowing who
Speaker 1: we are, knowing our place and black people. If you
Speaker 1: listening to this, you are amazing, You are regal, you
Speaker 1: are bold, you are beautiful, and we can get through this,
Speaker 1: and we will get through this. We just have to
Speaker 1: believe it and keep on pushing. Absolutely. Thank you guys
Speaker 1: so much. Once again, this was absolutely a pressure pleasure.
Speaker 1: John and Ernest. Before we wrap up, please tell my
Speaker 1: listens where they can find you on social media and
Speaker 1: anything you have you want to highlight that's coming up
Speaker 1: for either one of you. Okay, I'm sorry, but you
Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram and my I G account
Speaker 1: is at sign j O h N l U c
Speaker 1: A S number four real, So John Lucas four real
Speaker 1: and you can also check out my nonprofit website which
Speaker 1: is www dot step letter in number two, the lights
Speaker 1: dot com. That is st e p letter in number
Speaker 1: two the light dot com. And for myself, you can
Speaker 1: find me on Instagram and Twitter at m R Cram three.
Speaker 1: I'm on Facebook at m R Cram with three Eyes
Speaker 1: for the third. You can also visit my website Ernest
Speaker 1: Cram dot com. You can also find me on the
Speaker 1: local PBS Divided We Fall show. I think that would
Speaker 1: be a great show for people to watch for the
Speaker 1: upcoming election and showing people from the left and the
Speaker 1: right coming together and having conversations. And you can hopefully
Speaker 1: find me at your local school or I guess local
Speaker 1: zoom because I like to call myself for a black
Speaker 1: history advocate, you know, a black history preacher maybe, but
Speaker 1: you can find me. So you have a program coming
Speaker 1: up on PBS. I was a cast member on the
Speaker 1: show called The Body We Fall. We recorded it like
Speaker 1: last year or January twenty nineteen, and it's about the
Speaker 1: seven conversations with people on the other side of the eye.
Speaker 1: So we can probably find that one demand. You can
Speaker 1: google it in to pop up. It's been showing a
Speaker 1: different cities since April. Awesome. Al Right, guys, thank you
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you once again to my guest John
Speaker 1: Lucas and Ernest Krim the third. I just want to
Speaker 1: remind you that Black History Saved My Life is available
Speaker 1: on Amazon dot com. And for my takeaways from this episode,
Speaker 1: I want to read another passage from ernest book, and
Speaker 1: to me, this is probably the passage that resonated the
Speaker 1: very most to me after having read the entire book,
Speaker 1: The Birthplates of All Mankind Africa. Make sure they are
Speaker 1: proud of it so they don't associate it with poverty,
Speaker 1: starving children and aids. Teach them that they are equal,
Speaker 1: not inferior, to all human beings, regardless of color. Teach
Speaker 1: them to love their bronze colored skin and gloriously nappy
Speaker 1: hair because it is a gift from God, a result
Speaker 1: of our ability to adapt biologically. Teach them to love
Speaker 1: one another, and let them know that they are entitled
Speaker 1: to greatness, the type of greatness that does not begin
Speaker 1: or end with high end fashion or other material items.
Speaker 1: If you're white, teach your children that they aren't better
Speaker 1: than anybody and that they aren't entitled to something just
Speaker 1: because of their skin color. Teach them about a heritage
Speaker 1: and ancestry that extends beyond the label of whiteness. Teach
Speaker 1: them their European history and how its roots extend to
Speaker 1: African civilization. They'll learn about the supposed greatness of America
Speaker 1: by proxy as soon as they walk into a school,
Speaker 1: turn on the TV, or attend the sporting event. So
Speaker 1: teach them about the repulsive history of the country that
Speaker 1: lives in the shadows, the history that made Hitler proud
Speaker 1: to cite America as an inspiration for his treatment of
Speaker 1: the Jews. I want to see America evolved to being
Speaker 1: better than this, but we must be honest and admit
Speaker 1: that the country has not made it to that point
Speaker 1: yet will it ever, So we understand why we don't
Speaker 1: know our true history. That is all by design, but
Speaker 1: now it's our responsibility to learn it for ourselves and
Speaker 1: pass it on. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be
Speaker 1: sure to rate and review the episode. Follow me on
Speaker 1: my Instagram at gammy nars to share with me your
Speaker 1: thoughts on the episode. I'm here, I'm talking, and I'm listening,
Speaker 1: and as always, folks, stay grateful positively. Gam is produced
Speaker 1: by Westbrook Audio Executive producers Adrian Vamfield, Naris, Jada Pinkett Smith,
Speaker 1: Amanda Brown and Ballon Jetho coex acutive producer Sam Hati,
Speaker 1: associate producer Erica Ron and Crystal Devone, editor and mixer
Speaker 1: Calvin Bailiff. Positively, GAM is in partnership with Art nineteen