WEBVTT - Take Shelter with Matt Singer, Lone Star with Michael Phillips 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.560 Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited. Regal Unlimited is 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.560 the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.000 for itself in just two visits. See any standard two 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:15.280 D movie anytime, with no blackoutdates or restrictions. Save on tickets, 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.319 Save on snacks. Members get ten percent off all non 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.800 alcoholic concession items. Sign up now in the Regal app 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.960 or at rgmovies dot com Slash Unlimited. 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.360 What kind of a show you guys putting on here today? 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.880 You're not interested in armed? Now? No, Look, we're going 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:36.080 to do this thing. We're going to have a. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:42.080 Conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempinar. 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:42.840 Okay. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.239 So we hoped when we started planning this that maybe 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.760 being a Chicago guy, we could get Michael Shannon to 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.519 come be here at film Spotting Fest. And you know, instead, 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:58.360 he's off touring the country doing rim songs. And that 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.640 was impossible. So we got the next best thing, Matt 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.919 Singer as Michael Shannon. Back in March, we celebrated twenty 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.640 years of the show with Film Spotting Fest, a three 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.039 day film festival with screenings, a special guest critic, Matt 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:15.399 Singer yes, cosplaying as Hawaiian shirt wearing Michael Shannon joined 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.479 us for a post screening chat about Jeff Nichols Take Shelter. 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.360 That conversation, plus Michael Phillips and I revisit John Sales 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:25.640 Lone Star, which turns thirty in the new year. That 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:38.399 more ahead on film Spotting. Welcome to Film Spotting and 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.240 Happy New Year everyone. We're still on holiday break, but 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.400 that doesn't mean we don't have some fresh audio for you. 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.400 Next week, Josh and I will return with a review 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.360 of Marty Supreme. I'm being told that Josh may also 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:56.000 have a defense of Avatar, Fire and Ash. There may 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.840 also be a quick roundup of other movies we've caught 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:02.280 up with since we record ordered our epic Top ten 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.720 Films of twenty twenty five show. Later on in this 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:08.639 week's show, you'll hear Michael Phillips and I in conversation 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.760 about John sales great nineteen ninety six film Low and 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.520 Star that was recorded after a screening of the film 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.480 back in November as part of the City of Chicago's 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.440 fiftieth anniversary celebration of Ciskel and Ebert. Such a thrill 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.040 to be part of that, but First, we're going to 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.280 go back to March of twenty twenty five and Film 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:31.360 Spotting Fest, our three day celebration of twenty years of 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.120 this show. Over that March weekend, we hosted screening of 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.720 six films at two of Chicago's finest cinemas, the historic 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.200 Music Box Theater on the city's North side and the 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.960 Genes Ciskel Film Center Downtown. Special guests joined us for 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.519 all six screenings, and over the past nine months we've 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.560 shared the audio from all of those conversations, including director 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.960 Ryan Johnson talking about his debut film, Brick Coganata talking 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:00.240 about his debut film, Columbus critics Danas Stevens, Alison will More, 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.800 and Scott Tobias On respectively, Statuget Rays pather Ponchali, Sean 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:09.200 Baker's Tangerine, and Richard Linklater's Before Sunrise. That leaves us 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.720 with just one film and one special guest left. We've 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.720 been saving it up. Matt Singer, the Screen Crush critic 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.640 and author of Opposable Thumbs, How Ciskel and Ebert change 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.120 movies Forever. We've got a little theme going on this show. 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.440 He joined me for a screening of and a very 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.200 personal conversation about Jeff nichols twenty eleven film Take Shelter. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.040 The film stars Nichols regular Michael Shannon as a man 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.200 experiencing frightening apocalyptic visions who goes to extreme ends to 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.360 keep his family safe. Jessica Chastain plays his wife, their 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.680 young daughter, whose death is played by Tova Stewart from 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:48.120 March earlier this year. Here is that conversation, which starts 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.440 with me explaining why Matt is dressed as Michael Shannon. 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.720 Matt said, if he promised on social media, if you 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.560 follow him, that if this event sells out and the 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.280 place seems pretty packed to me, that he would would 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:01.560 wear a special outfit. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:03.160 And indeed, you if. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:07.200 You google Michael Shannon red carpet, the first thing you 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.840 will see is him dressed on a red carpet. He 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.040 didn't have pictures of himself on his I had that 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.840 made special for you guys. But uh, that was what 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.320 I said I would dress in that. So I did 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:21.440 my best. 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.000 As best I could. And here you are, well, such 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.880 a great comedy. I felt like we should really embrace 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:28.920 lighten things up. 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.960 Yeah, uh, I'm gonna take these off because I literally 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:35.360 I cannot see without my glasses, but that was part 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:35.840 of the look. 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.400 Make sure you google and so you see I'm not well. 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.000 I don't like that you've already broken character. 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:41.680 But sorry. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:42.320 Sorry. 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:44.760 The met singer I know commits to the bit. 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.599 Yeah, well this is yeah, this is a lot of commitment. 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:48.920 Come on, you're right, fair enough. 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.160 So let's start, Matt, as we have been throughout the day, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.159 a little bit with you before we talk about the film, 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.600 our relationship to you, why you are here at Film 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.080 Spotting Fest. You were one of the first guests we 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.440 had in mind, and that goes back to the fact 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.080 that I think you were the first, let's say, national 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:12.120 media outlet to have anything to say about Film Spotting 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:12.920 then Cinecast. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:14.120 This was just a few months in. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.680 I don't know if iTunes it even launched yet, but 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.800 we'd been doing the show for a little bit, and 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:20.880 I don't know if you just reached out to us 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.719 one day and said I'm either gonna do this or 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.200 I just did it. But you did a feature about 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.720 this on IFC News, like a sixty second hit, and 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.080 I remember very vividly how you explained there's this new 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:38.640 thing called podcasts in your announcer TV guy voice that 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:43.039 you have. So what was your recollection of discovering I 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.240 guess us discovering podcasting why you felt like it was 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.320 worth doing a story and I FC news about. 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:52.600 Well, what I remember about that is, yeah, Apple had 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:54.040 started the iTunes store. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.160 That was what the impetus was, like, there's this new 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.479 thing called podcasts, and. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:01.800 I forget how I found out about. 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:03.960 Maybe it was covered in something else whereas like there's 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:08.680 even ones about movies and yours was included. And as 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:13.479 someone who loved Cisco and eBird and conversations about movies 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:14.880 going back to when I was a kid, I was like, 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.520 this is fabulous. And at the time I was working 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:24.200 for IFC and we were always we were doing basically 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.200 at the time, IFC did not have commercials, and so 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.839 my job was to create news that would kind of 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.279 interstitials between the movies, because the movies would air, you know, 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:36.320 like uncut with no brakes, but then they would show 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.599 to space things out and sometimes they were sponsored, so 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.240 they were basically were commercials. They were secret commercials. So 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.920 I we would come up with ideas and I pitched one. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.960 I think honestly what it was was maybe Ebert and 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.880 Roper had started a podcast, but it was just the 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:58.040 audio version of the show, and I think we did 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.240 something about just like you know, you were sort of 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:06.240 the David versus the Goliath of Ebert and Roper, that 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.240 they were the bad guys, which is very ironic how 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:10.400 things turned out later. 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.720 But yeah, that was the impetus for that. 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.080 Yes, I don't remember emailing you about it, but at 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.240 some point we did start chatting. I remember seeing it 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.400 and that's where our friendship. I was wearing this in 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.240 the spot. Ironically, there's just a weird coincidence. 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:27.880 So let's talk. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:31.160 About Take Shelter and why you were the good candidate. 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.000 You were a good candidate to talk about this movie 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.440 with us. Back in twenty eleven, we already said it. 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.320 Josh had it as his number five film of the year. 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.480 It was my number two film of the year. You 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.000 had it at number one. 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:43.560 Guy. 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:44.960 You guys blew it, we blew it. 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.720 I had this little Terrence Malick movie called The Tree 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.480 of Life, So did you know Josh did as well. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.040 But you went all in on Jeff Nichols and this film. 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.080 Why was it your number one back in twenty eleven. 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:00.880 I genuinely believe this is like one of the great 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.680 movies of my lifetime, and hopefully this does not. 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.080 You know, I'm not making fun of this movie. I'm 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:09.960 making fun of my myself and being silly. 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:14.720 But this is almost like a defense mechanism because talking 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:18.960 about this movie exposes all of the realities of my life, 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.360 which is that to me, this is like the best 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.640 movie ever made about living with anxiety. I know, I 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.640 look like a really cool and put together person, but 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:35.199 the reality is that, like, you know, the the that 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.079 I relate to this character on a on a level 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.520 that is almost too personal to talk about, you know, 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:44.120 like there isn't like a history of schizophrena in my family, 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.400 but there is a history of really intense anxiety and 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:53.119 this idea of fear, you know, as this almost crippling 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.760 force in your life that can take hold of you 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.959 and is almost more dangerous and more insidious and more 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.240 threatening than whatever it is you're afraid of. I think 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:10.080 this movie communicates that idea in a way that is 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.880 better than hours of therapy that I have taken. Like, 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.880 I think I got more out of this movie than 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.560 I have talking to certain therapists in my life and 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.520 I'm not saying that like facetiously. I genuinely mean that, 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.040 like there is like a I don't know this movie. 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.880 You know, you could describe it as a scary or 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.640 you know, certainly moments that are in it are disturbing, scary, horrifying, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:39.199 But I almost find something kind of like uplifting about 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.760 the ending in a weird in a very weird way. 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.400 I admit that is strange, but I genuinely find something 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:49.480 almost hopeful and therapeutic about the end of this movie. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.040 Okay, well, I thought we might build to the ending, 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.040 but maybe we should just dive into the ending. 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:56.880 What do you say, should we talk about it? 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.920 You open the door, okay, Matt, the story, the storm seller, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.160 the storm celler door. Yeah, let's see what will be 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:06.959 reveal the other side on the other side, shine the 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.480 light on us. Just tell us your your thoughts on 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.720 it and it has your take on the ending changed 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.360 it all over the years if you as you've thought 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:16.320 about this film. 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.520 Well, I'm curious first, like, because I know people do 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:20.959 like this is it is the sort of ending that 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:27.280 encourages debate, and so I'm curious to like, do people 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.880 in the audience think that this is really happening. What 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:32.600 is the end of the movie? Is that, like an 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.359 are we to take that as a literal? The apocalypse 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:36.400 or whatever it is. 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:36.960 Is upon them? 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.520 Some people feel that way a couple of hands, Oh, okay, 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.280 you can it's all right. Look, I shared my deepest 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:44.200 personal issues. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.640 You can raise your hand at a question, okay. 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.480 And then how many people think that it's, uh, you know, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.520 this is another dream, or it's it's we're not supposed 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.080 to take it literally. It's okay, maybe it's maybe more, 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.960 but it's there's a So to me, like, I feel 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:05.080 like the answer, whatever you feel is is correct for 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.320 you obviously. And I love what Ryan Johnson said yesterday 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.679 about like, you know, like film criticism is like a 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.600 documentary of a person's experience of a movie. 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:14.040 I love that. 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.000 I thought that was really lovely. So whatever you feel 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:22.160 is wonderful. But for me, it's like the answer is irrelevant, 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.240 Like they're like the debate is irrelevant. 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.120 Like to me, the thing that matters is that he's not. 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.599 Afraid, and he and his and his and and the 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.959 Jessica chests, same character sees it too, the daughter sees 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:40.600 it too, and that whatever is going to happen. They're 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.520 gonna face it together, and he's and it and they 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.360 are a like, you know, visually, they are a cohesive unit. 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.400 And so to me, that is like where you find 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.520 like the hopefulness in this movie, because again, like you 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.520 can live, you can literally put yourself in a stormshell 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.839 storm celler and put on a gas mask and just say, 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.200 I'm just it's too scary out there, something bad is 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:05.080 out there or whatever the phrase is to use you, 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.280 I'm afraid something bad is coming. 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.319 Well, there always is something bad right coming, right. 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.000 So it's not a matter of that, it's a matter 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.040 of are you going you know, like, are you going 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.520 to stay in a storm seller? I can't say that 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:21.440 phrase apparently, storm seller, are you going to stay down there? 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:23.160 Or are you going to live your life? 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.680 Yeah? No, I think that's a great take. 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.000 And going back to the show and when we discussed 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.000 it, it was actually Dana Stevens, who was on film spotting 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.360 at the time when we reviewed it, filling in as 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.680 a guest host. And I don't think we necessarily talked 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.240 about it ahead of time or planned to get into 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:40.520 the ending, but it was also one of those things 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.959 where you kind of felt like you had to, and 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:45.640 I only had really one line in my notes, but 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:49.360 then we devoted some bonus content to it and ended 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:51.960 up unpacking it a little bit, and it was a 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.959 discussion that seemed to be helpful for some listeners who 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.400 were in a state of kind of going okay, this 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.600 sort of feels like Jeff Nichols just unraveled everything we saw, 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:04.400 and I ultimately agree with you, Matt. I think I'll 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.240 just take a harder line, though, and say that I 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.960 don't think there's any reason to believe, based on the 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.959 previous one hundred plus minutes, that the vision at the 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:17.200 end is anything but another vision. Just the reality of 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:22.720 the movie suggests that it is another vision, another hallucination, 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:27.240 another nightmare. But what matters is exactly what you said. 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.040 And it goes back. It goes back to a couple 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.920 of lines in the film, and one in particular, when 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:33.960 he finally comes clean with his wife at the table, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.960 he says, I need you to believe me. But even 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.680 more pointed, remember when they're driving home and he's got 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:43.400 both of them in the car in the back and 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.199 a lot of activity is happening and he's getting unnerved, 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.360 and he says is anybody seeing this and the whole film, 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:54.120 nobody else has seen it, whether it's Shay Wegm or 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:54.600 anyone else. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.680 This is all happening to him. 0:13:56.679 --> 0:14:00.200 This is his experience, and it feels as if he's 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.760 completely alone in it, and he's he's he's building it 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.160 that way. He won't let her in, he won't let 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.559 other people in. And so what matters, as you said, Matt, 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.200 at the end, is the fact that they both see it. 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.880 She sees it, they she nods at him. That's what 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:18.680 really matters. 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.240 And we understand that they as a couple are moving 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.280 forward and it's going to get harder. As the doctor says, 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.440 before it gets better, it's going to be harder. And 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:30.280 that's what I think for me that image suggests. But 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.120 at least they're finally they're on the same page. They are, 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.920 they are in agreement that they're going to fight this together. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.040 Your mother was diagnosed with paranoids in her thirties, I 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:41.960 thought before wanderings. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.320 No, it's been telling me how straying Curtis has been 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:46.080 acting ly. 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.360 Is anyone seeing this? Tell people what you've been doing? 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:56.400 I know, I'm sorry you friends. 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.120 The other the other thing that I would say. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.080 Is important about the ending that I don't always see 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.600 talked about, is you know the whole movie is about 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.160 uncertainty again, fear, anxiety, and so much of the movie 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.680 it's bouncing between reality and hallucination or dream or whatever 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.560 you want to call it. And so many times in 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.600 the movie does this so beautifully where it constantly is 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.840 messing with you, the audience member, Are we awake or 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:22.920 are we hallucinating? 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:23.560 Or are is it? 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:23.880 You know? 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.760 The whole movie and that ending, leaving you with a 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.200 question of is this real or is this not? Puts 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.360 you into the position of that character this whole movie, 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.320 the whole movie. He's asking himself, is anyone seeing this? 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:40.680 Am I going crazy? Am I hallucinating? Is you know? 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:41.040 So? 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.800 Leaving you in that state is a way is like 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.400 an almost like an empathetic gesture. 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.640 It allows you to feel what this character has. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:51.720 Been feeling for the whole movie. 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.560 I agree, and I'll use that word feeling here as well. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.840 He says that to her, right, he says, it's a feeling. 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:00.320 He's trying to describe what he's going for, and it's 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.120 very hard thing for him to articulate because it is 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.880 a feeling. And I think at the end, even though 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.000 we have that conversation, the preceding conversation with the doctor, 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.040 and the doctor explains this is he's gonna have to 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.920 commit to treatment. He might be away from the family 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.200 for a little bit. If the movie ends with the 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.680 big reveal being him hit. He comes outside and the 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.880 light shines and he sees it and he says it's fine. 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.040 After an entire film with him saying what, I'm all right, 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:32.160 I got it, I'm fine, it's fine. I'm not and 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.320 at the end he finally says it's fine, and it 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.040 actually is fine for the first time, it's fine. If 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:38.920 it ended there, I think we'd all kind of walk 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.760 out of the theater feeling like, Yeah, everything's gonna be great. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.800 They're right, they're they're finally gonna move forward, their their 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.480 marriage is stronger, they're they're communicating better. 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.160 He's gonna get treatment. We can walk out and feel 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:53.040 great about the ending. 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.680 And Jeff Nichol says, no, I need you to leave 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.840 with the feeling like this isn't over. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:16:59.840 This is an over by a long shot, right. 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:03.800 And again that's very true of anxiety, you know, like, 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.359 at least as I have experienced it. 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:06.120 You have these. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:12.080 Periods where you are extremely that or heightened, or you're 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.879 having these really intent panic attacks, and then. 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.840 You know, hopefully you get maybe get it under control. 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.680 But it doesn't go like there is no magical solution. 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:21.639 You know, Like he has that scene where he's like, 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:23.720 I need you to tell me what I need to take. 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.280 Get it under to get it under control, fix. 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:26.800 To fix this. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.879 And the answer is not, there isn't The answer is 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.600 there is no answer. The answer is learning to accept 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.600 it and to and to live with it a little more, 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.840 maybe without building you know, spent getting a home loan 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:40.439 and building a storm shehelf. 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.880 I can't say storm, cellar, what is rot? 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.840 That's sorry the moment where you know, I mean, right 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.280 from the beginning, it's it's ominous, right. It opens on 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.200 him standing outside in the rain and he's seeing it 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.960 come down. But when Shay Wigan, when his friend says 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.480 to him, basically, you have a perfect life. You're a 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.919 good man, you have a good life. We know what 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.240 this could be foreshadowing, you know, and and the fact 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:06.840 that he he is. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:08.680 A good man. We see that he on the job. 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:11.560 He doesn't want to stop early, right, just because it 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:13.600 looks like it might be rain Like. He seems to 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.359 be a man of integrity and honesty, and he is 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.080 trying to do everything he can for his family. But 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.640 as you've said, in the end, bad things are going 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:23.199 to come for you. 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:23.639 Anyway. 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.760 You can be a good man, You can do everything right, 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:28.960 you can, you know, And these are modest ambitions that 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:30.480 these characters have. They want to they want to be 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.800 able to go to the beach house on vacation maybe 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:35.440 once a year. They want to pay all their bills. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.520 They want their daughter to be able to hear that. 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:44.040 That's about it. But there's just this this fear, this 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:45.720 this spear, as you said, that's hanging over him the 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:46.280 entire time. 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:51.720 Yeah, you mentioned the daughter, and I what I I had. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:53.159 I saw this movie when a K I had my 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.439 number one. I may not have seen it again until 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.840 a week ago when I rewatched it getting ready for 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:03.800 this and then watching it here again today, and really 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.520 in those two new viewings, really struck by how wonderfully 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.720 the daughter fits into the one of the other themes 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.520 of this movie, which is communication and the struggle to 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:19.040 communicate with their daughter, and how important that is, and 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:26.159 how his fears about that again connect to his mental struggles, 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.199 but also again his struggle to communicate with everyone. And 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.239 there's so much about this movie and about anxiety that 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:37.240 is his reaction to it is to I mean, maybe 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.320 this is too much symbolism or reading too much in 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.879 but the idea that he's a construction worker and he 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.280 spends his life building things, and then we watch him 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:48.760 in this movie begin to build walls around his issues. 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.560 He builds a fence, a pen for the dog. The 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:53.600 dog is scary. I'm going to put the dog in 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.920 a cage and that will solve my fear. Oh there's 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.359 more fear now, I'm worried about this. I'm going to build. 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.480 He literally puts up walls, you know. He builds a 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.479 storm cellar and then he goes into it, you know. 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:07.360 And and so. 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:11.800 He he is trying to solve the problem by just 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.840 closing it off. I'm gonna I'm gonna seal this thing in. 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.240 I'm gonna bury it way down deep in the ground, 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:20.160 you know. I mean, And that's something I joke about 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:22.399 with my wife, is like, you know, I'm gonna just 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.480