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Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited. Regal Unlimited is

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Speaker 1: the all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays

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Speaker 1: or at rgmovies dot com Slash Unlimited.

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Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

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Speaker 2: You're not interested in armed? Now? No, Look, we're going

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Speaker 2: to do this thing. We're going to have a.

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Speaker 3: Conversation from Chicago. This is film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempinar.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So we hoped when we started planning this that maybe

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Speaker 3: being a Chicago guy, we could get Michael Shannon to

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Speaker 3: come be here at film Spotting Fest. And you know, instead,

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Speaker 3: he's off touring the country doing rim songs. And that

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Speaker 3: was impossible. So we got the next best thing, Matt

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Speaker 3: Singer as Michael Shannon. Back in March, we celebrated twenty

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Speaker 3: years of the show with Film Spotting Fest, a three

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Speaker 3: day film festival with screenings, a special guest critic, Matt

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Speaker 3: Singer yes, cosplaying as Hawaiian shirt wearing Michael Shannon joined

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Speaker 3: us for a post screening chat about Jeff Nichols Take Shelter.

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Speaker 3: That conversation, plus Michael Phillips and I revisit John Sales

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Speaker 3: Lone Star, which turns thirty in the new year. That

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Speaker 3: more ahead on film Spotting. Welcome to Film Spotting and

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Speaker 3: Happy New Year everyone. We're still on holiday break, but

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Speaker 3: that doesn't mean we don't have some fresh audio for you.

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Speaker 3: Next week, Josh and I will return with a review

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Speaker 3: of Marty Supreme. I'm being told that Josh may also

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Speaker 3: have a defense of Avatar, Fire and Ash. There may

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Speaker 3: also be a quick roundup of other movies we've caught

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Speaker 3: up with since we record ordered our epic Top ten

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Speaker 3: Films of twenty twenty five show. Later on in this

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Speaker 3: week's show, you'll hear Michael Phillips and I in conversation

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Speaker 3: about John sales great nineteen ninety six film Low and

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Speaker 3: Star that was recorded after a screening of the film

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Speaker 3: back in November as part of the City of Chicago's

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Speaker 3: fiftieth anniversary celebration of Ciskel and Ebert. Such a thrill

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Speaker 3: to be part of that, but First, we're going to

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Speaker 3: go back to March of twenty twenty five and Film

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Speaker 3: Spotting Fest, our three day celebration of twenty years of

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Speaker 3: this show. Over that March weekend, we hosted screening of

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Speaker 3: six films at two of Chicago's finest cinemas, the historic

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Speaker 3: Music Box Theater on the city's North side and the

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Speaker 3: Genes Ciskel Film Center Downtown. Special guests joined us for

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Speaker 3: all six screenings, and over the past nine months we've

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Speaker 3: shared the audio from all of those conversations, including director

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Speaker 3: Ryan Johnson talking about his debut film, Brick Coganata talking

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Speaker 3: about his debut film, Columbus critics Danas Stevens, Alison will More,

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Speaker 3: and Scott Tobias On respectively, Statuget Rays pather Ponchali, Sean

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Speaker 3: Baker's Tangerine, and Richard Linklater's Before Sunrise. That leaves us

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Speaker 3: with just one film and one special guest left. We've

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Speaker 3: been saving it up. Matt Singer, the Screen Crush critic

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Speaker 3: and author of Opposable Thumbs, How Ciskel and Ebert change

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Speaker 3: movies Forever. We've got a little theme going on this show.

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Speaker 3: He joined me for a screening of and a very

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Speaker 3: personal conversation about Jeff nichols twenty eleven film Take Shelter.

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Speaker 3: The film stars Nichols regular Michael Shannon as a man

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Speaker 3: experiencing frightening apocalyptic visions who goes to extreme ends to

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Speaker 3: keep his family safe. Jessica Chastain plays his wife, their

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Speaker 3: young daughter, whose death is played by Tova Stewart from

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Speaker 3: March earlier this year. Here is that conversation, which starts

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Speaker 3: with me explaining why Matt is dressed as Michael Shannon.

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Speaker 3: Matt said, if he promised on social media, if you

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Speaker 3: follow him, that if this event sells out and the

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Speaker 3: place seems pretty packed to me, that he would would

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Speaker 3: wear a special outfit.

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Speaker 4: And indeed, you if.

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Speaker 5: You google Michael Shannon red carpet, the first thing you

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Speaker 5: will see is him dressed on a red carpet. He

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Speaker 5: didn't have pictures of himself on his I had that

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Speaker 5: made special for you guys. But uh, that was what

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Speaker 5: I said I would dress in that. So I did

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Speaker 5: my best.

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Speaker 6: As best I could. And here you are, well, such

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Speaker 6: a great comedy. I felt like we should really embrace

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Speaker 6: lighten things up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, uh, I'm gonna take these off because I literally

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Speaker 5: I cannot see without my glasses, but that was part

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Speaker 5: of the look.

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Speaker 6: Make sure you google and so you see I'm not well.

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Speaker 4: I don't like that you've already broken character.

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Speaker 6: But sorry.

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Speaker 2: Sorry.

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Speaker 4: The met singer I know commits to the bit.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, well this is yeah, this is a lot of commitment.

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Speaker 4: Come on, you're right, fair enough.

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Speaker 3: So let's start, Matt, as we have been throughout the day,

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Speaker 3: a little bit with you before we talk about the film,

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Speaker 3: our relationship to you, why you are here at Film

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Speaker 3: Spotting Fest. You were one of the first guests we

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Speaker 3: had in mind, and that goes back to the fact

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Speaker 3: that I think you were the first, let's say, national

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Speaker 3: media outlet to have anything to say about Film Spotting

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Speaker 3: then Cinecast.

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Speaker 4: This was just a few months in.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if iTunes it even launched yet, but

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Speaker 3: we'd been doing the show for a little bit, and

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you just reached out to us

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Speaker 3: one day and said I'm either gonna do this or

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Speaker 3: I just did it. But you did a feature about

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Speaker 3: this on IFC News, like a sixty second hit, and

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Speaker 3: I remember very vividly how you explained there's this new

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Speaker 3: thing called podcasts in your announcer TV guy voice that

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Speaker 3: you have. So what was your recollection of discovering I

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Speaker 3: guess us discovering podcasting why you felt like it was

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Speaker 3: worth doing a story and I FC news about.

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Speaker 6: Well, what I remember about that is, yeah, Apple had

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Speaker 6: started the iTunes store.

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Speaker 5: That was what the impetus was, like, there's this new

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Speaker 5: thing called podcasts, and.

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Speaker 6: I forget how I found out about.

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Speaker 5: Maybe it was covered in something else whereas like there's

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Speaker 5: even ones about movies and yours was included. And as

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Speaker 5: someone who loved Cisco and eBird and conversations about movies

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Speaker 5: going back to when I was a kid, I was like,

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Speaker 5: this is fabulous. And at the time I was working

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Speaker 5: for IFC and we were always we were doing basically

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Speaker 5: at the time, IFC did not have commercials, and so

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Speaker 5: my job was to create news that would kind of

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Speaker 5: interstitials between the movies, because the movies would air, you know,

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Speaker 5: like uncut with no brakes, but then they would show

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Speaker 5: to space things out and sometimes they were sponsored, so

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Speaker 5: they were basically were commercials. They were secret commercials. So

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Speaker 5: I we would come up with ideas and I pitched one.

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Speaker 5: I think honestly what it was was maybe Ebert and

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Speaker 5: Roper had started a podcast, but it was just the

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Speaker 5: audio version of the show, and I think we did

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Speaker 5: something about just like you know, you were sort of

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Speaker 5: the David versus the Goliath of Ebert and Roper, that

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Speaker 5: they were the bad guys, which is very ironic how

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Speaker 5: things turned out later.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, that was the impetus for that.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I don't remember emailing you about it, but at

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Speaker 5: some point we did start chatting. I remember seeing it

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Speaker 5: and that's where our friendship. I was wearing this in

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Speaker 5: the spot. Ironically, there's just a weird coincidence.

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Speaker 6: So let's talk.

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Speaker 3: About Take Shelter and why you were the good candidate.

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Speaker 3: You were a good candidate to talk about this movie

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Speaker 3: with us. Back in twenty eleven, we already said it.

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Speaker 3: Josh had it as his number five film of the year.

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Speaker 3: It was my number two film of the year. You

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Speaker 3: had it at number one.

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Speaker 2: Guy.

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Speaker 6: You guys blew it, we blew it.

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Speaker 3: I had this little Terrence Malick movie called The Tree

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Speaker 3: of Life, So did you know Josh did as well.

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Speaker 3: But you went all in on Jeff Nichols and this film.

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Speaker 3: Why was it your number one back in twenty eleven.

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Speaker 5: I genuinely believe this is like one of the great

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Speaker 5: movies of my lifetime, and hopefully this does not.

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Speaker 6: You know, I'm not making fun of this movie. I'm

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Speaker 6: making fun of my myself and being silly.

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Speaker 5: But this is almost like a defense mechanism because talking

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Speaker 5: about this movie exposes all of the realities of my life,

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Speaker 5: which is that to me, this is like the best

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Speaker 5: movie ever made about living with anxiety. I know, I

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Speaker 5: look like a really cool and put together person, but

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Speaker 5: the reality is that, like, you know, the the that

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Speaker 5: I relate to this character on a on a level

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Speaker 5: that is almost too personal to talk about, you know,

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Speaker 5: like there isn't like a history of schizophrena in my family,

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Speaker 5: but there is a history of really intense anxiety and

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Speaker 5: this idea of fear, you know, as this almost crippling

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Speaker 5: force in your life that can take hold of you

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Speaker 5: and is almost more dangerous and more insidious and more

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Speaker 5: threatening than whatever it is you're afraid of. I think

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Speaker 5: this movie communicates that idea in a way that is

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Speaker 5: better than hours of therapy that I have taken. Like,

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Speaker 5: I think I got more out of this movie than

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Speaker 5: I have talking to certain therapists in my life and

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Speaker 5: I'm not saying that like facetiously. I genuinely mean that,

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Speaker 5: like there is like a I don't know this movie.

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Speaker 5: You know, you could describe it as a scary or

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Speaker 5: you know, certainly moments that are in it are disturbing, scary, horrifying,

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Speaker 5: But I almost find something kind of like uplifting about

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Speaker 5: the ending in a weird in a very weird way.

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Speaker 5: I admit that is strange, but I genuinely find something

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Speaker 5: almost hopeful and therapeutic about the end of this movie.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, I thought we might build to the ending,

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Speaker 3: but maybe we should just dive into the ending.

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Speaker 4: What do you say, should we talk about it?

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Speaker 3: You open the door, okay, Matt, the story, the storm seller,

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Speaker 3: the storm celler door. Yeah, let's see what will be

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Speaker 3: reveal the other side on the other side, shine the

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Speaker 3: light on us. Just tell us your your thoughts on

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Speaker 3: it and it has your take on the ending changed

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Speaker 3: it all over the years if you as you've thought

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Speaker 3: about this film.

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Speaker 5: Well, I'm curious first, like, because I know people do

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Speaker 5: like this is it is the sort of ending that

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Speaker 5: encourages debate, and so I'm curious to like, do people

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Speaker 5: in the audience think that this is really happening. What

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Speaker 5: is the end of the movie? Is that, like an

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Speaker 5: are we to take that as a literal? The apocalypse

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Speaker 5: or whatever it is.

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Speaker 4: Is upon them?

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Speaker 5: Some people feel that way a couple of hands, Oh, okay,

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Speaker 5: you can it's all right. Look, I shared my deepest

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Speaker 5: personal issues.

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Speaker 6: You can raise your hand at a question, okay.

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Speaker 5: And then how many people think that it's, uh, you know,

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Speaker 5: this is another dream, or it's it's we're not supposed

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Speaker 5: to take it literally. It's okay, maybe it's maybe more,

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Speaker 5: but it's there's a So to me, like, I feel

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Speaker 5: like the answer, whatever you feel is is correct for

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Speaker 5: you obviously. And I love what Ryan Johnson said yesterday

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Speaker 5: about like, you know, like film criticism is like a

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Speaker 5: documentary of a person's experience of a movie.

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Speaker 6: I love that.

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Speaker 5: I thought that was really lovely. So whatever you feel

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Speaker 5: is wonderful. But for me, it's like the answer is irrelevant,

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Speaker 5: Like they're like the debate is irrelevant.

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Speaker 6: Like to me, the thing that matters is that he's not.

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Speaker 5: Afraid, and he and his and his and and the

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Speaker 5: Jessica chests, same character sees it too, the daughter sees

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Speaker 5: it too, and that whatever is going to happen. They're

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Speaker 5: gonna face it together, and he's and it and they

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Speaker 5: are a like, you know, visually, they are a cohesive unit.

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Speaker 5: And so to me, that is like where you find

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Speaker 5: like the hopefulness in this movie, because again, like you

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Speaker 5: can live, you can literally put yourself in a stormshell

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Speaker 5: storm celler and put on a gas mask and just say,

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Speaker 5: I'm just it's too scary out there, something bad is

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Speaker 5: out there or whatever the phrase is to use you,

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Speaker 5: I'm afraid something bad is coming.

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Speaker 6: Well, there always is something bad right coming, right.

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Speaker 5: So it's not a matter of that, it's a matter

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Speaker 5: of are you going you know, like, are you going

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Speaker 5: to stay in a storm seller? I can't say that

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Speaker 5: phrase apparently, storm seller, are you going to stay down there?

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Speaker 6: Or are you going to live your life?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? No, I think that's a great take.

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Speaker 3: And going back to the show and when we discussed

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Speaker 3: it, it was actually Dana Stevens, who was on film spotting

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Speaker 3: at the time when we reviewed it, filling in as

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Speaker 3: a guest host. And I don't think we necessarily talked

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Speaker 3: about it ahead of time or planned to get into

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Speaker 3: the ending, but it was also one of those things

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Speaker 3: where you kind of felt like you had to, and

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Speaker 3: I only had really one line in my notes, but

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Speaker 3: then we devoted some bonus content to it and ended

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Speaker 3: up unpacking it a little bit, and it was a

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Speaker 3: discussion that seemed to be helpful for some listeners who

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Speaker 3: were in a state of kind of going okay, this

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Speaker 3: sort of feels like Jeff Nichols just unraveled everything we saw,

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Speaker 3: and I ultimately agree with you, Matt. I think I'll

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Speaker 3: just take a harder line, though, and say that I

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Speaker 3: don't think there's any reason to believe, based on the

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Speaker 3: previous one hundred plus minutes, that the vision at the

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Speaker 3: end is anything but another vision. Just the reality of

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Speaker 3: the movie suggests that it is another vision, another hallucination,

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Speaker 3: another nightmare. But what matters is exactly what you said.

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Speaker 3: And it goes back. It goes back to a couple

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Speaker 3: of lines in the film, and one in particular, when

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Speaker 3: he finally comes clean with his wife at the table,

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Speaker 3: he says, I need you to believe me. But even

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Speaker 3: more pointed, remember when they're driving home and he's got

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Speaker 3: both of them in the car in the back and

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Speaker 3: a lot of activity is happening and he's getting unnerved,

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Speaker 3: and he says is anybody seeing this and the whole film,

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Speaker 3: nobody else has seen it, whether it's Shay Wegm or

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Speaker 3: anyone else.

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Speaker 4: This is all happening to him.

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Speaker 3: This is his experience, and it feels as if he's

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Speaker 3: completely alone in it, and he's he's he's building it

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Speaker 3: that way. He won't let her in, he won't let

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Speaker 3: other people in. And so what matters, as you said, Matt,

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Speaker 3: at the end, is the fact that they both see it.

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Speaker 4: She sees it, they she nods at him. That's what

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Speaker 4: really matters.

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Speaker 3: And we understand that they as a couple are moving

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Speaker 3: forward and it's going to get harder. As the doctor says,

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Speaker 3: before it gets better, it's going to be harder. And

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Speaker 3: that's what I think for me that image suggests. But

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Speaker 3: at least they're finally they're on the same page. They are,

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Speaker 3: they are in agreement that they're going to fight this together.

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Speaker 2: Your mother was diagnosed with paranoids in her thirties, I

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Speaker 2: thought before wanderings.

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Speaker 3: No, it's been telling me how straying Curtis has been

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Speaker 3: acting ly.

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Speaker 2: Is anyone seeing this? Tell people what you've been doing?

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm sorry you friends.

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Speaker 6: The other the other thing that I would say.

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Speaker 5: Is important about the ending that I don't always see

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Speaker 5: talked about, is you know the whole movie is about

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Speaker 5: uncertainty again, fear, anxiety, and so much of the movie

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Speaker 5: it's bouncing between reality and hallucination or dream or whatever

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Speaker 5: you want to call it. And so many times in

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Speaker 5: the movie does this so beautifully where it constantly is

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Speaker 5: messing with you, the audience member, Are we awake or

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Speaker 5: are we hallucinating?

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Speaker 4: Or are is it?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 5: The whole movie and that ending, leaving you with a

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Speaker 5: question of is this real or is this not? Puts

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Speaker 5: you into the position of that character this whole movie,

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Speaker 5: the whole movie. He's asking himself, is anyone seeing this?

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Speaker 6: Am I going crazy? Am I hallucinating? Is you know?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 5: Leaving you in that state is a way is like

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Speaker 5: an almost like an empathetic gesture.

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Speaker 6: It allows you to feel what this character has.

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Speaker 2: Been feeling for the whole movie.

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Speaker 3: I agree, and I'll use that word feeling here as well.

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Speaker 3: He says that to her, right, he says, it's a feeling.

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Speaker 3: He's trying to describe what he's going for, and it's

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Speaker 3: very hard thing for him to articulate because it is

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Speaker 3: a feeling. And I think at the end, even though

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Speaker 3: we have that conversation, the preceding conversation with the doctor,

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Speaker 3: and the doctor explains this is he's gonna have to

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Speaker 3: commit to treatment. He might be away from the family

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Speaker 3: for a little bit. If the movie ends with the

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Speaker 3: big reveal being him hit. He comes outside and the

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Speaker 3: light shines and he sees it and he says it's fine.

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Speaker 3: After an entire film with him saying what, I'm all right,

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Speaker 3: I got it, I'm fine, it's fine. I'm not and

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Speaker 3: at the end he finally says it's fine, and it

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Speaker 3: actually is fine for the first time, it's fine. If

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Speaker 3: it ended there, I think we'd all kind of walk

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Speaker 3: out of the theater feeling like, Yeah, everything's gonna be great.

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Speaker 3: They're right, they're they're finally gonna move forward, their their

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Speaker 3: marriage is stronger, they're they're communicating better.

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Speaker 4: He's gonna get treatment. We can walk out and feel

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Speaker 4: great about the ending.

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Speaker 3: And Jeff Nichol says, no, I need you to leave

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Speaker 3: with the feeling like this isn't over.

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Speaker 4: This is an over by a long shot, right.

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Speaker 5: And again that's very true of anxiety, you know, like,

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Speaker 5: at least as I have experienced it.

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Speaker 6: You have these.

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Speaker 5: Periods where you are extremely that or heightened, or you're

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Speaker 5: having these really intent panic attacks, and then.

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Speaker 6: You know, hopefully you get maybe get it under control.

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Speaker 6: But it doesn't go like there is no magical solution.

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Speaker 5: You know, Like he has that scene where he's like,

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Speaker 5: I need you to tell me what I need to take.

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Speaker 4: Get it under to get it under control, fix.

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Speaker 6: To fix this.

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Speaker 5: And the answer is not, there isn't The answer is

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Speaker 5: there is no answer. The answer is learning to accept

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Speaker 5: it and to and to live with it a little more,

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Speaker 5: maybe without building you know, spent getting a home loan

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Speaker 5: and building a storm shehelf.

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Speaker 6: I can't say storm, cellar, what is rot?

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Speaker 3: That's sorry the moment where you know, I mean, right

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Speaker 3: from the beginning, it's it's ominous, right. It opens on

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Speaker 3: him standing outside in the rain and he's seeing it

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Speaker 3: come down. But when Shay Wigan, when his friend says

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Speaker 3: to him, basically, you have a perfect life. You're a

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Speaker 3: good man, you have a good life. We know what

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Speaker 3: this could be foreshadowing, you know, and and the fact

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Speaker 3: that he he is.

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Speaker 4: A good man. We see that he on the job.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't want to stop early, right, just because it

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Speaker 3: looks like it might be rain Like. He seems to

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Speaker 3: be a man of integrity and honesty, and he is

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Speaker 3: trying to do everything he can for his family. But

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Speaker 3: as you've said, in the end, bad things are going

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Speaker 3: to come for you.

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Speaker 4: Anyway.

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Speaker 3: You can be a good man, You can do everything right,

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Speaker 3: you can, you know, And these are modest ambitions that

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Speaker 3: these characters have. They want to they want to be

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Speaker 3: able to go to the beach house on vacation maybe

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Speaker 3: once a year. They want to pay all their bills.

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Speaker 3: They want their daughter to be able to hear that.

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Speaker 3: That's about it. But there's just this this fear, this

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Speaker 3: this spear, as you said, that's hanging over him the

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Speaker 3: entire time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you mentioned the daughter, and I what I I had.

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Speaker 5: I saw this movie when a K I had my

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Speaker 5: number one. I may not have seen it again until

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Speaker 5: a week ago when I rewatched it getting ready for

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Speaker 5: this and then watching it here again today, and really

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Speaker 5: in those two new viewings, really struck by how wonderfully

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Speaker 5: the daughter fits into the one of the other themes

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Speaker 5: of this movie, which is communication and the struggle to

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Speaker 5: communicate with their daughter, and how important that is, and

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Speaker 5: how his fears about that again connect to his mental struggles,

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Speaker 5: but also again his struggle to communicate with everyone. And

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Speaker 5: there's so much about this movie and about anxiety that

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Speaker 5: is his reaction to it is to I mean, maybe

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Speaker 5: this is too much symbolism or reading too much in

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Speaker 5: but the idea that he's a construction worker and he

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Speaker 5: spends his life building things, and then we watch him

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Speaker 5: in this movie begin to build walls around his issues.

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Speaker 5: He builds a fence, a pen for the dog. The

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Speaker 5: dog is scary. I'm going to put the dog in

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Speaker 5: a cage and that will solve my fear. Oh there's

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Speaker 5: more fear now, I'm worried about this. I'm going to build.

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Speaker 5: He literally puts up walls, you know. He builds a

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Speaker 5: storm cellar and then he goes into it, you know.

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Speaker 6: And and so.

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Speaker 5: He he is trying to solve the problem by just

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Speaker 5: closing it off. I'm gonna I'm gonna seal this thing in.

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna bury it way down deep in the ground,

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Speaker 5: you know. I mean, And that's something I joke about

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Speaker 5: with my wife, is like, you know, I'm gonna just

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Speaker 5: I'm just gonna bury it, bury it way down deep

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Speaker 5: and that's like he almost literally tries to do.

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Speaker 6: That in this movie and finds out spoiler alert that never.

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Speaker 4: Word, it doesn't work.

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Speaker 3: So a couple days ago, as we were doing our

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Speaker 3: final prep for this, we're on a call with producer

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Speaker 3: Sam and he says, you know, at festivals, there always

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Speaker 3: ends up being connections that developed between films, and I

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Speaker 3: wonder what they'll be. And of course we probably should

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Speaker 3: have known that because unlike most film festivals, we've seen

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Speaker 3: all these movies before and we probably could have planned those.

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Speaker 4: Connections, but we did not.

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Speaker 3: And here I am, and I'm thinking about Brick last

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Speaker 3: night and Ryan Johnson talking about Brendan and we're having

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Speaker 3: the conversation about his type of masculinity and how did

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Speaker 3: he describe him as self righteous? What's more self righteous

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Speaker 3: than Michael Shannon in that scene right where he finally

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Speaker 3: goes off on all the other people in his community.

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Speaker 3: But also I don't remember the exact lines, but how

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Speaker 3: does Brendan describe the way he loves Emily? For those

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Speaker 3: of you who are there, he says, I love you.

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Speaker 3: This is how I show my love. I have to

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Speaker 3: protect you, right, And this is what we're getting here

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Speaker 3: with Michael Shannon's character as well. But I think also

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Speaker 3: we just watched Father Ponchali and to your point about walls,

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Speaker 3: we have a mother in that film who is trying

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Speaker 3: the entire movie to get her walls actually fortified. Literally,

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Speaker 3: she needs the walls fortified to try to protect her family. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: she is actually alone. She's unnecessarily alone her husband in

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Speaker 3: this case, the father is kind of mia.

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Speaker 4: Unfortunately for most of.

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Speaker 3: The film, he is unnecessarily building up these walls, right, yeah, I.

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Speaker 6: Mean I get.

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Speaker 5: I mean it's funny because I'm like, I never again

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Speaker 5: watching it the first time, I don't know that I

436
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Speaker 5: noticed any of these things. But even this, this this

437
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Speaker 5: idea of the walls that he's and the structures he's

438
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 5: building to contain and hide and protect himself. I mean

439
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 5: it's sort of again obvious. But the ending, the ending

440
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,919
Speaker 5: is opening opening a door literally being open you know,

441
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 5: uh it all it kind of fits together in that

442
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 5: beautiful way that that you know, and and that the

443
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 5: that Jessica Chesstain's character.

444
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 6: It says him, you have to do this.

445
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 5: I could open I could, I could open the door,

446
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 5: but that wouldn't solve the problem. You have to open it,

447
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 5: you have to be open perhaps and uh and that

448
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,439
Speaker 5: and so you have that and what and what a

449
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 5: powerful ending that is, which is literally just that that

450
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 5: that being the the moment. I think a movie that

451
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 5: has these huge apocalyptic visions and that you're you know,

452
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 5: they I remember the I remember the first time I

453
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,159
Speaker 5: saw it being so talk about anxiety, like when they

454
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 5: go in there for the first time and you don't

455
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 5: know how that scene is going to resolve. I remember

456
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 5: just really like being really white knuckled watching that. Just

457
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 5: the amount of tension that they get out of that

458
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 5: sequence that ends in such a sort of simple way,

459
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 5: I think is just brilliant filmmaking.

460
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 3: Well, that was vulnerable, So I'll be a little vulnerable, right,

461
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: We've got to be honest, Like I have had probably,

462
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: oh gosh, ten to twenty at least moments like he

463
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 3: has in the film at Night, where you have a

464
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 3: panic attack where you wake up in the middle of

465
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: the night, scare your wife half to death because you

466
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 3: feel like you can't bread, you feel like you're choking

467
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 3: on something, you feel completely over.

468
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 4: You actually do think you're.

469
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 3: In my case, choking on something that has happened many

470
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 3: times dozens of times in my life, right, so.

471
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 4: I can relate in a lot of ways to this character.

472
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 3: And I mentioned earlier the top five things we learned

473
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 3: from the movies we did an episode four hundred, I

474
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 3: think I want to share this just because it underscores,

475
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: you know, what we're talking about with this. It's themes

476
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 3: of communication and vulnerability and honesty. The scene for me

477
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: that I talked about an episode four hundred, I think

478
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 3: is so important is when he wakes up that one

479
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 3: morning after having a panic attack, and he has wept

480
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 3: the bed right. And if you think about all of

481
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 3: us in the room, if something like that happened to you,

482
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 3: how many of you and let's assume just like in

483
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 3: this case, he's got a loving, supportive wife. If he

484
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 3: said to her, if he was honest with her and said,

485
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: I don't know what happened, but look at the sheets,

486
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 3: she would say, well, we maybe need to get you

487
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 3: in to see a doctor, and we need to try

488
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 3: and address this, and let's clean the sheets. But because

489
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 3: of his shame, because of the fear of what he thinks,

490
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 3: this is going to lead to the fear that they're

491
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 3: going to think that he's losing control. And he's not

492
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: fulfilling his duties as husband and father, and just I

493
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 3: think too, the shame of that masculine sort of shame

494
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 3: and that pride.

495
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 4: He what does he do?

496
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 3: He hides it, He doesn't he want her to come

497
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: over next to him, and he goes and washes the

498
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 3: sheets and puts the bed back together in private. I

499
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 3: wonder how many of us would do the exact same thing,

500
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 3: even if we even if we think we're in a

501
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 3: really healthy relationship and we could be as honest as

502
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: we want with each other, in that moment, wouldn't you

503
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 3: also feel a little bit of shame? Wouldn't you want

504
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 3: to probably cover it up? That's that's the kind of

505
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 3: questions I think Jeff Nichols is really getting at and

506
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 3: exploring in this film and why it feels very personal,

507
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: and I think why many of us can have that

508
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 3: personal connection to it.

509
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, I know.

510
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 5: And you know, one of the other sort of personal

511
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 5: reactions I had this time was when I it's is

512
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 5: it twenty ten?

513
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 6: Twenty eleven?

514
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 4: Is when the movie twenty eleven?

515
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 6: So I was not.

516
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 5: I was married, but I wasn't a dad then and

517
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 5: now I have I have two kids, so that adds

518
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 5: an extra an extra wrinkle of fun. I guess, let's say,

519
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 5: to watching this movie is to and having kids really

520
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 5: does add that level of anxiety. You know you were

521
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 5: talking before about like their extremely modest ambitions and goals

522
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 5: and like the things that he wants to protect.

523
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 6: And that's it.

524
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 5: I told again, that's another thing that I think is

525
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 5: so beautiful about the movie is that idea of.

526
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 6: I don't have a lot, but what I have is great,

527
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 6: this is all I need. I just don't want anything

528
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 6: bad to happen. I don't want anything to jeopardize that.

529
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 6: And I think that as.

530
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 5: A father, I can really sadly relate to that you

531
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 5: know that you know and and and I think again

532
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 5: that the movie really it taps into such a beautiful

533
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 5: personal way of expressing all of those ideas that you know,

534
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 5: Like seeing it now, I had an even more intense

535
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 5: reaction to even knowing you know. As I said, like

536
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 5: I find the the ending to be somewhat hopeful and

537
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 5: kind of optimistic in a weird way therapeutic, but just

538
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 5: experiencing that aspect of it now, it just adds another

539
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 5: fun wrinkle of tension and anxiety.

540
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 3: Well, Matt Singer added a fun wrinkle to film spotting Fest.

541
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: Thank you so much Matt Singer for being here, Thank

542
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 3: you for sharing your thoughts on the film that was.

543
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: Film critic Matt Singer and me at the Film spotting

544
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: Fest screening of Jeff Nichols.

545
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 4: Take shelter.

546
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: For more Film spotting Fest conversations, you can go to

547
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 3: filmspottingfest dot com or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

548
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,479
Speaker 4: How do you live well?

549
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 6: I live with the conference of I believe in myself,

550
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 6: the money will follow.

551
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 4: And what do you plan to do if this whole

552
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 4: dream of yours doesn't work?

553
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 7: At it doesn't even enter my consciousness.

554
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 3: Before we get to our conversation about Lone Star, a

555
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 3: couple of quick notes. We do have a lot planned

556
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 3: for January here on Film spotting Next week we'll have

557
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: a review of Christmas Day release Marty Supreme, along with

558
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 3: Josh talking about Avatar Fire and Ash. Yes, I think

559
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 3: I am going to sit that one out. We do

560
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: expect to have a couple of more recent releases in

561
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 3: the mix as well. The following week it's our twenty

562
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 3: twenty five wrap party. That's where we share our favorite

563
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: scenes and moments of the twenty twenty five movie year,

564
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 3: and then later in the month it's our twenty twenty

565
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 3: six movie preview. We've got our Oscar nomination reactions, and maybe,

566
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 3: well it's not a maybe, we've got it on the calendar.

567
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 3: We actually have a Sacred Cow conversation already planned for

568
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 3: Paul Thomas Anderson's One Battle After Another. Yes, the film

569
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty five. We've got it on the docket

570
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 3: for early twenty twenty six to already revisit reflect on

571
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 3: that film before we completely close the book on this

572
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: past year, on that rap party show. In a couple

573
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 3: of weeks, we will announce the winner of the Film

574
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 3: Spotting Golden Brick Award, our favorite film by a new

575
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 3: or emerging director. You get to help choose the winner

576
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: of that award, and you could do that by voting

577
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: in the Film Spotting Poll, which is available now at

578
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 3: film spotting dot Net. The twenty twenty five Brick nominees

579
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 3: are Julian Glanders Animated Boys Go to Jupiter, which is

580
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: available now vod. The film whose title explains it all,

581
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 3: Grand Theft Hamlet that's available via Movie and You Can Act,

582
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: says that via Amazon Prime the David osit directed documentary Predators,

583
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 3: which is available via Paramount Plus Eva. Victor is Sorry Baby,

584
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 3: that's streaming on HBO Max and available via other VOD platforms.

585
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: And finally, another documentary being distributed locally or by our

586
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: local distributor, Music Box Films, Charlie Shackleton's Zodiac Killer Project.

587
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: Now that is one that may be a little bit

588
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: harder to see, but you have some time to vote.

589
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: Your vote actually is in due until I think our

590
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: deadline's going to be Sunday, January eleventh, and Zodiac Killer

591
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 3: Project comes out on VOD. You can see it digitally

592
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: starting January six So if you want to do all

593
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: your homework, make sure you've seen all five of these,

594
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: and hey, Zodiac Killer Project is a good one, make

595
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: sure that you make time for it. January sixth is

596
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 3: when that movie comes out. You can vote in that

597
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 3: poll and leave a comment at Film Spotting.

598
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 7: I thought it was important to acknowledge the new modes

599
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 7: that the Ciskel and Ebert format is taking in new

600
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 7: media spaces as we celebrate their fiftieth anniversary. And I

601
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 7: thought that Adam and Film Spotting were the perfect example

602
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 7: of this.

603
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: That was Alex Vasquez from the Chicago Film Office. This fall,

604
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 3: Chicago Film and the Chicago Department of Cultural Affairs celebrated

605
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 3: fifty years of Ciskel and Ebert with some special film

606
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: screenings and events, including a film they invited us to host,

607
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 3: and I got to pick. That was what was so

608
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 3: wonderful about this. Alex gave me a call said, do

609
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: you have any ideas on what you might want to screen?

610
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 3: And John sales nineteen ninety six film Lone Star was

611
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: one of the first movies that came to mine. As

612
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 3: you will hear me explain shortly in the post screening conversation.

613
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 3: Lone Star is set on the US Mexico border and

614
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: stars Chris Cooper as a small town sheriff, Sam Dead's

615
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: who starts unearthing long buried secrets after the remains of

616
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 3: a former sheriff are discovered, a former share who disappeared

617
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 3: under mysterious circumstances. Mysterious circumstances that may have involved Sam's

618
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 3: father Buddy, played by a very young Matthew McConaughey. The

619
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: disappeared sheriff He's played by Chris Christofferson. Elizabeth Tania also

620
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 3: stars sheriff Deed sheff.

621
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 2: Ded is dad, honey, He's just sheaff Julie.

622
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 7: We found a body out by Fort McKenzie yesterday.

623
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: He got any idea who might have put him there?

624
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 2: The hell of a time to bring up old business

625
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: that badge and didn't come out of a cereal box,

626
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: started figging holes in this county. Don't telling him what

627
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: will come up? Be too so did you? I Won'll

628
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: find out one way or the other.

629
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 3: With Josh overseas, I invited Michael Phillips to join me

630
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 3: for the screening and that conversation Michael Phillips, everybody, Hey, folks, Hey,

631
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 3: you got them?

632
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 4: Hi Michael.

633
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: I'm wondering if everybody out there is really processing the

634
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 3: ending of the film. We might, yeah, forget it. We

635
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: might need to give them another minute or two. But

636
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 3: I did want to explain my choice of this film,

637
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: and maybe we can talk about the context in which

638
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: you saw Lone Star for the first time. So June

639
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six is when this film came out. I

640
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: would have been home for the summer right before my

641
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 3: senior year of college, sleeping on my parents' couch because

642
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: I didn't have a bedroom anymore.

643
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 4: And this is before I.

644
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 3: Had written any film reviews or taken any film studies

645
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 3: classes or film production classes. My liberal arts school didn't

646
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 3: have any film classes. I knew I wanted to do

647
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 3: something in film though at this point, and I was

648
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: watching at the movies religiously. I saw this review. I

649
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 3: heard them talking about John Sales. I didn't know anything

650
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: about John Sales. The movie looked fascinating. I wanted to

651
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: see this film, and of course it was not playing

652
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: at my little two screen movie theater in my small town,

653
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 3: and I was so I started scanning the Des Moines

654
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 3: Register because we had to look at newspapers. Then I'm

655
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: dating myself. The Internet was fledgling at this point, so

656
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 3: I'm scanning the Des Moines Register constantly to see is

657
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 3: this going to come to Des Moines? Am I going

658
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 3: to get to see Lone Star? I have to see

659
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: this movie, And finally it did. It might have been

660
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 3: like two months after it came out, maybe even three,

661
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: but I eventually did see this movie.

662
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: So wait, it wasn't the streaming the week after it

663
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 2: opened in the theaters.

664
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 3: No, no streaming. I do remember too, being intrigued by

665
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 3: the fact that I don't think I had seen Dazed

666
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 3: and Confused at this point. Somehow I missed it when

667
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: it came out. That was like Matthew McConaughey's first role.

668
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: But A Time to Kill had come out, or came

669
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: out just a month after this movie, and it had

670
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 3: been promoted. It was a big movie of the John

671
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 3: Grisham novel, so i'd seen ads for that constantly. I

672
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: think I saw that before saw Lone Star. And what's funny,

673
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 3: of course, is that that's the big breakout McConaughey role,

674
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: and Chris Cooper's in that movie and he's a supporting character.

675
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 3: And I remember being I don't know, just kind of

676
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,479
Speaker 3: surprised by the fact that it's so funny to see

677
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: this little movie and Chris Cooper's the big star and

678
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 3: Matthew McConaughey's in the supporting role. But I did finally

679
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 3: get to see Lone Star, and it turns out Roger

680
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 3: and jan were right. I thought it was a masterpiece,

681
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 3: and I don't think i'd seen it. Somehow i'd seen

682
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 3: the entire film until last night prepping for this and

683
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 3: then watching it again now holds up beautifully. At least

684
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 3: I felt that it did. So how about you, when

685
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 3: did you see Lone Star? What did you bring to it?

686
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: So you again you what year in college were you.

687
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 4: I would have been right before my senior year, so I.

688
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: Was in fourth grade. So that makes you no, No,

689
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: it's but I did for Rogeriebert. There's a piece running

690
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: soon about a similar sort of Ebert and Cisco force

691
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: of influence in my movie going life, where when I

692
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: was second or thirty year of college, this little film

693
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: called My Dinner with Andrei came out and that was

694
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: in eighty one, I think, And yeah, so it's we're

695
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: half a generation issue apart on everything on that, Yeah,

696
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 2: I saw I saw a Lone Star as a as

697
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 2: a civilian. This was at a period of my life

698
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 2: when I was writing about theater, which was about half

699
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 2: my career, and seeing it again, and it had been

700
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 2: a similar spread of time since since the second watch,

701
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 2: and I'm very happy to see it again, not just

702
00:35:52,760 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: because it's politically, sociologically just historically relevant in ways that

703
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 2: I wish it weren't. In a way what we're going

704
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: through now, I don't even know what writer directors who

705
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 2: want to write truthfully and from the heart about what

706
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: they see happening in their country now, what we're going

707
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: to see in another few years, I hope, I hope something.

708
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: I really don't want it to be nothing. It's not

709
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: just that I think watching this now, it's the thing

710
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: that really hits me is that there's a word. I

711
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: caught an adjective that one sort of grousy critic, and

712
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 2: I don't remember which one it was. It wasn't Siskel

713
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 2: or Ebert, obviously, but a critic who was sort of

714
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: hot and cold on John Sales use the word civilized

715
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 2: to describe sort of the tone, the approach, and the

716
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: whole kind of humanist outlook here. And it was sort

717
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 2: of meant to be kind of a mixed assessment. And

718
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: now seeing this tonight, I can only really see the

719
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 2: value in it. And also just the craft of this writer.

720
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: The fact that in his writing career is fascinating. I mean,

721
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: he wrote all this, really some of it really entertaining

722
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 2: trash for Roger Corman, everything from Piranha to I think

723
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 2: uncredited work on some Corman films, including I think Black Mama,

724
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: White Mama, which we see playing at the drive in

725
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 2: in that scene and the flashback, and the fact that

726
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: he could actually juggle successfully eighteen or so. It's eighteen

727
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: credited actors on the open credits, So I think basically

728
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: eighteen substantial roles without seeming crazy overpacked to me, and

729
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 2: without its seeming ginned up for melodrama every second. God knows,

730
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 2: you know, and and Sales knows what kind of filmmaker

731
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: he is. He knows that he's a guy that will

732
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: never be grabby enough for a big audience, for a

733
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: big box office boom. You know. He just he cannot

734
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: change his temperament, which is interesting coming out of the

735
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: career he coming out of the writing career he with Korman,

736
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: which is all just like can we you know, just

737
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 2: throw the trash at the screen, make an entertaining, make

738
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: it cheap. But I mean, look at all the great

739
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: people that came out of working with Corman, everyone from

740
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 2: Jonathan demidev Scor says, and here we have John Sales.

741
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: So anyway, that's the writing is what really Yeah, a

742
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 2: lot alone the acting, but that's a different story. That's

743
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 2: a yeah, yeah, I think the writing.

744
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 3: Of course, you saw the clip from Ciskel Niehburg Gene

745
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: talked about that, and I agree. I think if this

746
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: was a film that just gave us the kind of

747
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 3: murder mystery Charlie Wade storyline and introduced us to a

748
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 3: few of these characters. You know, we met we met

749
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 3: Big Oh, and we understood a little bit about his

750
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 3: backstory because we need to because he ends up being

751
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 3: a major player in this mystery. It would have been

752
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: fairly satisfying. But the fact that we get I think

753
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 3: Alex's word was tapestry. I mean the fact that we

754
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: get all of these characters. And there are a lot

755
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 3: of movies, Michael, that try to pull that off, that

756
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 3: to try to weave together all these different characters give

757
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: us the big ensemble, and they never they never really

758
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 3: have the depth I think that this movie has. And

759
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 3: what you notice, I think is John Sales does a

760
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 3: really good job of giving every character at least one

761
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 3: scene where they get to do something that isn't just

762
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 3: their introduction and then the thing they have to do

763
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 3: for the plot. You know, they have a scene where

764
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: we get to just even with a character like Enrique,

765
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 3: who we meet him early in the film when he

766
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: delivers some food to the table with Hollis, and then

767
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: of course at the end where he shows up at

768
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: Mercedes house. But in addition to the other scenes where

769
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 3: we see him planning the river crossing, he's waiting outside

770
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 3: and he sees her car and he tells her how

771
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 3: nice of a car she has. We just get to

772
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: know a little bit about him in terms of his

773
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 3: personality and a sense of kind of his aspirations. And

774
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 3: every character has a moment like that, even even as

775
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 3: subtle as the Texas Ranger we meet Ben Wetzel.

776
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: He's just the love that guy. He's so good and

777
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 2: you know, we're talking about the guy who comes to

778
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: I mean that. It's like I've never seen less acting

779
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: in my life.

780
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 3: I know, And it's very subtle.

781
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 6: He's there to.

782
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 3: Deliver information right to move the story forward, but Sales

783
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 3: gives him that great story about Charlie Wade walking into

784
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 3: his dad's hardware store and saying that he winked at

785
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 3: me and I wet my pants. That gives that character

786
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 3: some dimension. I'll give you another one when he goes

787
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: to meet with with Roderick's widow and just the fact

788
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 3: that she's not just sitting on her porch waiting to

789
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 3: deliver answers to his questions. She's playing the game boy right,

790
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 3: and there too, it's emerging of the past and present,

791
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 3: this older woman playing with this game boy. But it

792
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: it just gives her something to do and to joke

793
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: around about, beyond just again serving the story. Every character

794
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 3: has something like that. We get to see, we get

795
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: to see how they interact with each other and a

796
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 3: sense of their interiority beyond just what they're doing there

797
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 3: to serve the plot. Yeah, I suppose, I suppose if

798
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 3: you have a car wait, you're disagreeing.

799
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: With no, no, no, not yet less than.

800
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 4: Usual, This would be appropriate if he was.

801
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: I mean there are there are at times when when

802
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 2: you're sort of aware of of of exactly what you're

803
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: saying that you're not getting. You're not you're not. It's

804
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 2: not plot forward in that way. It's plenty ploty, you know.

805
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a couple of reversals that you know,

806
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: we can argue about, you know, the value over whatever.

807
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: But Sales is a big fan of Raymond Chandler as

808
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: a lot of people, right, and who's a guy, you know,

809
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 2: Philip Marlow, you know, l a crime all that, and

810
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 2: plot was very busy in a in a Philip Marlow

811
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 2: mystery without really being as important as anything else going on.

812
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: I mean, what's Chandler was really into. It was just

813
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 2: this weird sort of like, you know, kind of organism

814
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: that was l A that he that he got to

815
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: know in the thirties and forties, in the fifties, although

816
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: I think they lived in La Joya for a time.

817
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 2: Anybody know La Joya? The to Chandler wrote one grade

818
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: line on that's his hand. He just he just said, ayah,

819
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: it's nothing but a climate, That's what he said. But

820
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 2: I think what what Sales is doing here in Lone

821
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 2: Star is is kind of attribute to something like Tandler,

822
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 2: because it's like he more than I will say this,

823
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: more than a lot of his movies. I think Sales

824
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: does seem activated by being on location really really down

825
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: where we're talking about, I mean fictionalized you know, names

826
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: of the towns, but that that just feels like it's

827
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: doing a lot of the work we need done and

828
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 2: the actors kind of filling from there. You just you

829
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: can tell it's And in terms of the writing too,

830
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 2: you know this whole business about algorithmic writing where Netflix people,

831
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: if you're doing just rogic for Netflix, uh, you know,

832
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 2: the note is always given that you have to as

833
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 2: a writer. You have to reiterate the stupid single one

834
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: idea plot over and over, or assuming people are texting

835
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: while they're watching, they're not really looking, so you have

836
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 2: to you know, you can't, you know, and that I

837
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: meanes Sales would be running a hardware store today if

838
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: you had to put up on that stuff here, right, yeah,

839
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: you know.

840
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 3: In terms of the screenplay, dialogue is usually I don't know,

841
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 3: I'd put it maybe fourth on the list of things

842
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: that criteria for a great screenplay.

843
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 4: But there are some really good lines here. We got

844
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 4: a great laugh out of it, the.

845
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 3: Great zinger when the character I think it's Mikey who says, yeah,

846
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 3: it's always heartwarming to see a prejudice defeated by a

847
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 3: deeper prejudice. Come on, that's a good line. But the

848
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: writing may be the standout here. But where I think

849
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 3: Lone Star might be a standout in sales career. And

850
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 3: I've seen almost all of his films, but it's been

851
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 3: a long time since I've seen a lot of sales films,

852
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: So I don't know if someone.

853
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,439
Speaker 4: Can talk to me after if they've they've seen these films.

854
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 3: More recently, he's he's known as maybe the godfather of

855
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 3: American independent cinema. You go back to a film like

856
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 3: Return of the Sacaca seven is often a film that's

857
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 3: pointed too as the film that launched that movement and

858
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 3: the focus. A lot of times, Michael is on independent

859
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 3: in that two word phrase independent filmmaker, not so much

860
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 3: on the filmmaking. He's not a filmmaker that's known for

861
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 3: being ostentatious. He's never trying to draw a lot of

862
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 3: attention to what he's doing with the camera. But when

863
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 3: you think about this movie, and when you do think

864
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 3: about it in the context of a Western, it makes

865
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 3: me think a little bit of a filmmaker like Howard Hawks,

866
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 3: who was another filmmaker who didn't move the camera a

867
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 3: whole lot, but was always well regarded for being a

868
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 3: guy who knew where to place the camera, always knew

869
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 3: where to put it in exactly the place it needed

870
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 3: to be. And when I watch Lone Star, I feel

871
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 3: like sales one. He knows exactly where to put the camera.

872
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 3: But then he also does some interesting things with the

873
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 3: camera here, especially in those flashbacks.

874
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 2: The scene that's that's what I want to talk about.

875
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 3: The scene at the end before we even get to

876
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 3: the kind of editing and the trick of going between

877
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 3: past and president, which I want to get to. I

878
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 3: just needed some of the staging and the blocking of

879
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 3: using some of those low angle shots when he needs

880
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 3: to to emphasize the authority and the intensity, the intimidation

881
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 3: of Charlie Wade cutting in just on a close up

882
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 3: when he needs to really to amp up a scene,

883
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 3: the canted angle, he'll go to a tilted shot there

884
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 3: at the end when when Sam walks in and we're

885
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: going to get finally the truth revealed, and especially with

886
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 3: otis young. Otis there at the end right looking up

887
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 3: at at at Charlie Wade. There, there's some really effective

888
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 3: subtle uses of the camera in addition to the great

889
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 3: editing tea.

890
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: Yeah it took. I mean Sales never had a lot

891
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: of money, even when he had bigger budgets for him.

892
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 2: I mean this was a somewhat larger budget. And I

893
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: think part of that is you can't really set up

894
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: complicated fluid what is you know, medium length takes quickly.

895
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 2: You cannot set those up and rehearse them. It takes

896
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 2: it takes half a day to and and you're looking

897
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 2: at days like shooting schedules like nineteen days and a

898
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: lot of his pictures twenty three. I mean, I'm amazing

899
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 2: that he got anything done, you know with that, But

900
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 2: I yeah, what I really love about about the potential

901
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: narrative moments of like no, wait, who what you know?

902
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: You know, there's a little of that here and there,

903
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 2: which is almost entirely solved in my in my view,

904
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 2: by that ideas simple as as can be and not original,

905
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 2: but really beautifully sort of layered in look at let's

906
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: let's do the flashbacks in this way this time, meaning

907
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: you know, for maximum clarity and also just sort of

908
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 2: a poetic touch that does not to me seem like

909
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: a like a tick or a gimmick where you just

910
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 2: you know, you have an actual without a break person

911
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 2: in the presence talking about something, shift over here to

912
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 2: the bar, and then there's a quick shuffle we don't

913
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: see behind. Okay, we'll remove this stuff, and then okay,

914
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: younger so and so is there forty years earlier. And

915
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 2: that's a very kind of subliminally satisfying way of handling

916
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: flashbacks for maximum clarity and something just a little different

917
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 2: for him, absolutely that was his I mean, there aren't

918
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: that many camera moments, aha moments with sales in his

919
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 2: entire career, and that might be wonderful. It was like

920
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 2: that beautiful, very simple idea, nicely done it.

921
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 4: And as cinematic as it is.

922
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 3: I wonder, especially with your theater criticis's background, I wonder

923
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 3: if you thought it was theatrical, because it made me

924
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 3: think about moments on the stage where you might have

925
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 3: something on the front of the stage, characters acting, and

926
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 3: then they'll lights out on them and the spotlight to

927
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 3: someone back here, and it might even be characters from

928
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 3: their past or a future moment or something like that,

929
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 3: where you're shifting to another part of the stage and

930
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 3: it feels like that sometimes here. Even though it also

931
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 3: is based on what makes it effective is the way

932
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 3: they're hiding cuts effectively, right, I mean, this is based

933
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: on the fact that the camera is moving, and I

934
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 3: think in almost every instance, if not every instance, there

935
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 3: is a cut somewhere there to make it seamless. And

936
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 3: the reason why beyond I think just being inherently satisfying.

937
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 3: If you think about this film thematically, right, this is

938
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: a place, these are characters.

939
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 4: This is a story where.

940
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 3: The present and the past cannot be separated from each other.

941
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 3: Everybody is at every moment haunted by their past, and

942
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 3: some are doing whatever they can to try to move

943
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 3: past it, but they can't, and some, by the end

944
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 3: of the film, we see them making efforts to, like

945
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 3: in the case of Delmore and and his father, right,

946
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 3: there is some attempts at reconciliation and change, and even

947
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,839
Speaker 3: Mercedes moves forward a little bit and we see her

948
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 3: helping those characters at the end.

949
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 4: But they can't be separated.

950
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: And I'm going to use a phrase that the bartender

951
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 3: uses in the film sales. I think is exploring in

952
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 3: this film this idea of lines of demarcation, right, And

953
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 3: if you can't have that separation, if there is no

954
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 3: line of demarcation between the past and present, then there

955
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: can't be a line of demarcation in the editing either.

956
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 3: There can't be that clear cut, There can't be that

957
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 3: clear separation between the past and present. It has to

958
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 3: be seamless, and we need to feel like the past

959
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 3: and present are constantly in dialogue with each other, and

960
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 3: I think the.

961
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 4: Editing pulls that off.

962
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 3: And what I especially love Michael is then we get

963
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 3: a moment where the past and present are literally in

964
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 3: dialogue with each other when they're by the river, right,

965
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 3: because then Chris Cooper actually answers his own question and says,

966
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 3: is knee neither right? Right?

967
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 2: This is this is the it's it's the two themes

968
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 2: sort of formed the right, the two streams into the

969
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: river where it's like a past and president, you know,

970
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 2: the ghosts of the past. How much can we deny

971
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: and without or bury him or keeping Barry without going

972
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: crazy as a as a what a son, a family,

973
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 2: a society, all of it, it's all there in this

974
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: in the story. And it's just just the eternal golf,

975
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 2: as Shaw said, George Burnshaw, the eternal golf between parents

976
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: and children. And the Brits and and other other countries

977
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 2: always thought look down on American drama a little bit,

978
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: saying the usual you know, family family stuff about the

979
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: classet falls is in the closet, because of course that

980
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: doesn't happen in England. You know nobody, but you know,

981
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 2: it's it's the great quote from Falkner, right. I think

982
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 2: it was originally Requiem for a none. You know, the

983
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 2: past is never dead, it's not even past. And that

984
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 2: was in fifty one he wrote that, And then I

985
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 2: mean O'Neil gen O'Neil long Day's journeying tonight off on

986
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 2: the great play about about the past just not able

987
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: to you know, you cannot shake it, you cannot bury it.

988
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: The past is, the present is, and it's the future too.

989
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: We all try to lie out of that, but life

990
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 2: will not let us. And that's that's sales from the

991
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 2: beginning of Mister Calucus seven. You know, how can you

992
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 2: resolve your sort of counterculture revolutionary recent past with your

993
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: complacent present? Even brother who's seen brother from another planet here? Really,

994
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 2: I love that film. I just resaw that, and that

995
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: I mean that begins with that first. I mean, I

996
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: defy anybody not to stick with that movie past the

997
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: first five minutes because this opening where this Interstellar you know,

998
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 2: played by Joel.

999
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 4: Moore Morton from The Colonel, The.

1000
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 2: Colonel, Yeah, lands and he ends up H's just fun

1001
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 2: to find your landing right by the statue in the

1002
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,319
Speaker 2: in the in the river, and and he's sort of

1003
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: flooded with this sort of supernatural ability to hear and

1004
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: imagine voices of the past in Ellis Island. You know,

1005
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 2: he's over there and it's just like, Wow, he never

1006
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: really shook this theme, you know, He's just found ways

1007
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,919
Speaker 2: over decades of filmmaking to revisit it, and he never

1008
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 2: I agree with you on Loan Star. I don't think

1009
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: Sales ever made a better mosaic film, you know, and

1010
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: he made a lot of them, I.

1011
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 4: Believe it or not.

1012
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 3: We're actually already pretty much at twenty minutes, so we

1013
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 3: kind of have to wrap this up. So that's the yeah,

1014
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 3: all right, all right, let's go. Yeah, he's he's given

1015
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 3: us that we can keep talking sign you know that's

1016
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 3: dangerous with film spotting, though, Alex.

1017
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: This means we can keep talking right when you.

1018
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 3: Do there you can just talk from the well, maybe

1019
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 3: we can get to the ending of the film a

1020
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 3: little bit and not just the twist necessarily, though we

1021
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 3: can talk about that too, or the double twists if

1022
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 3: you will.

1023
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,960
Speaker 4: But what on these.

1024
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 3: Rewatches, having now watched it back to back nights as

1025
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 3: we both have, what what surprised you?

1026
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: If anything?

1027
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 4: What did you discover on rewatch?

1028
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 2: For me, it's and this is where I really would

1029
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 2: love to hear after I speak very briefly to this,

1030
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 2: I just how many great small, medium size, not just

1031
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 2: not just scenes has written, but performances there are.

1032
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 4: In this.

1033
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 2: And how my my occasional struggle with John Sale's work

1034
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 2: not less so here than almost any film about whether

1035
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,759
Speaker 2: or not the motor is if the motor's a little

1036
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 2: less than I want sometimes in terms of the story narrative.

1037
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: But all that seems to be kind of solved by

1038
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 2: the next moment when I realized good line, good act,

1039
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 2: good casting, you know, like I mean, that's a you know,

1040
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 2: you know, it's like I would you know, look, we

1041
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 2: see a lot of movies in a year. I mean,

1042
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 2: you after five in a row where that doesn't have either,

1043
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: you know, you just start thinking there was a time

1044
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: when it was a little easier to find something that

1045
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 2: really was like well written, you know, whether it's for

1046
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 2: you or not, or whether it's taking on something interesting

1047
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 2: that happens to be have this weird, sort of unfortunate,

1048
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 2: sinister layer of relevance to today. You know, it's but the

1049
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 2: damn thing holds together, you know. So who I mean,

1050
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 2: who's for the first timer? Is I'd like to hear

1051
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 2: from any any one or two first time viewers of

1052
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 2: this thing right back right there.

1053
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 3: We're gonna give them a mic. What would you like, Michael,

1054
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 3: what was that? What would you like to hear them

1055
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 3: chime in on?

1056
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,479
Speaker 2: Well, I just say just what they what they felt

1057
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 2: about the first few, Like let's let's hear what you thought.

1058
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, I I feel like it's very interesting, especially now

1059
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,439
Speaker 8: with like Paul Thomas Anderson like putting out another film

1060
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,959
Speaker 8: like one battle after another, and like seeing a lot

1061
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 8: of like Magnolia in this movie, which is like a

1062
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 8: very interesting thing, and like again with that idea of

1063
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 8: like the past not being through with you, kind of

1064
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 8: that famous quote by William H. Macy in that movie,

1065
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 8: and just kind of like seeing these like small independent

1066
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 8: things really like channeling up in the nineties and some

1067
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,280
Speaker 8: of them getting lost. And I'm really grateful for highlighting

1068
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 8: this because I've never heard of this movie orgon sales before.

1069
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 8: Wonderful what's your name?

1070
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 2: Thank you? Now? No, thank you.

1071
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you said that, because as Michael was

1072
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,720
Speaker 3: talking and using some of those quotes, I was thinking

1073
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 3: of that line and I couldn't place it. I had

1074
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 3: that in my head and it's that Magnolia, that Magnolia line.

1075
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 3: I did want to talk about the surprise for me

1076
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 3: one of them was that as well, just thinking about

1077
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 3: like Ron Canada as as Otis I love watching in

1078
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 3: this film, and Jill Morton, but Elizabeth Pania who who

1079
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 3: sadly passed away cancer, and I think twenty fourteenth just

1080
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 3: doesn't have a false moment at all ever in this film.

1081
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,760
Speaker 3: But then I will say about about the ending, Michael,

1082
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 3: I think the first time I saw this film, I

1083
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 3: was so busy processing it, the revelation and the ramifications

1084
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: of it, that I didn't really think about how perfectly

1085
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,919
Speaker 3: it does tie together all of these ideas we're talking

1086
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 3: about about the past in present. And she says a

1087
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 3: line about starting from scratch, which is echoing something that

1088
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 3: said earlier in the film, right between between Otis and

1089
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 3: Chet his grandson, where he says that his dad says,

1090
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 3: you start, you start from scratch when you're born. And

1091
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 3: so this is that that whole concept of are you

1092
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 3: able to or are you someone who can separate yourself

1093
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 3: from your past? Are you exactly who you create yourself

1094
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 3: to be or are you a product of your environment

1095
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 3: and your heritage? Can you carve out your own legacy?

1096
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:56,479
Speaker 4: And I don't think.

1097
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 3: I don't think sales the great thing about sales as

1098
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 3: a filmmaker is he's not setting a line of demarcation.

1099
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 3: He's not a simple enough writer or filmmaker to say

1100
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 3: it is one or the other. He's challenging all of those.

1101
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 3: He's challenging that idea. He wants to think about that concept.

1102
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 3: And at the end, at the end, she's saying, we

1103
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 3: are for the sake of our relationship and happiness, we

1104
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 3: are going to pretend that the life before doesn't matter.

1105
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 3: We are going to try to start from scratch. And

1106
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 3: just on that point about lines of demarcation, the character

1107
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 3: the private right who when they're talking with the colonel,

1108
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 3: she mentions that she wants to stay in the army

1109
00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 3: and why does she want to stay in the army,

1110
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 3: And it's because the world outside is chaos. She likes

1111
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 3: having the rules. She needs the lines drawn right and

1112
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 3: he understands that. But back to the ending, they are

1113
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 3: going to try to move forward in their way, and

1114
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 3: that line forget the Alamo is kind of the It

1115
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 3: is so great because it's kind of the movie a

1116
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 3: nutshell in terms of this idea of men.

1117
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 2: Look that also, that's enough, that's the other moment of

1118
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 2: I think it really inspired I mean, you know it's

1119
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 2: in writing the credits. He edited, you know, it's written,

1120
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 2: directed and edited by sales, right, it's and that's a

1121
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 2: really astute final thirty seconds to have that line not

1122
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 2: hammered with a close up. Just say it, you believe it,

1123
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 2: Say it like it just bought it. It's a thought.

1124
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 2: And then it goes camera goes back to a different chat,

1125
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 2: you know, forty feet further back and then further back

1126
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 2: cut boom. You know that's that's that's where you know,

1127
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 2: that's right. He's a really good editor too. You know,

1128
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 2: look here, I'd love to hear one more first time

1129
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 2: or his reaction, just and just quick briefly, my name

1130
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 2: is John.

1131
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 3: Uh.

1132
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 9: The one thing that really stuck out to me, first

1133
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 9: of all, how relevant all this stuff with the with

1134
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 9: the immigrants are. It was just incredible. But it's the genre,

1135
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 9: like I couldn't for the life of me place it.

1136
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 9: Like I kept thinking was falling into a Western, and

1137
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 9: then all of a sudden I was in a romance

1138
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 9: and then I was in a history and like what

1139
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 9: what what do you guys say about about that genre

1140
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 9: of this film?

1141
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 2: I mean the beauty of it, Yeah, I mean it

1142
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 2: you know, you could get fancy and call it a

1143
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 2: you know, like a neo Western noir. But he's made

1144
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 2: you know, he has come back often far more than

1145
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: to a detective genre, or he's done sales. Is always

1146
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 2: gravitated toward Westerns of different types and often border related.

1147
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 2: He's filmed both sides of the border, and he has

1148
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 2: He's done a lot of TV work, some of it's

1149
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 2: been Westerns. I think that's where I think he's compelled

1150
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,439
Speaker 2: to find out, how do we get beneath this sort

1151
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: of old mythic easy black hat white hat thing, uh

1152
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 2: and just get into some issues that are worth talking about,

1153
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 2: digging into, you know, just just sort of the racial

1154
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 2: anime and prejudice and you know, politics, all of it.

1155
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 2: You know, why not? I mean he does it with

1156
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 2: plenty of modern days, things like City of Hope. Everyone's

1157
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 2: seen that similar kind of mosaic structure. But this is

1158
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 2: very satisfying. I think that this one, this film, you

1159
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:17,919
Speaker 2: saw the better film. You know, if we've seen City

1160
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 2: of Hope, we wouldn't have be half as good a discussion.

1161
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 4: So just a couple of things to close on.

1162
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 3: Food for thought, Michael, you can see if you think

1163
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 3: I'm crazy here or not? Just a few things I

1164
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 3: noted tonight maybe an example of what I'm trying to

1165
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 3: argue that Sales is potentially theorizing here this idea of

1166
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 3: not separating purely from the past, but a path forward

1167
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 3: with the past in mind. The very opening of the film,

1168
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 3: what what do we find out that the characters, those

1169
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 3: two characters are doing. He he makes art out of

1170
01:01:55,160 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 3: old bullets, right, old bullets are transforming them into something new.

1171
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 3: The I love the fact that and we get a

1172
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:08,880
Speaker 3: great line at the end, right. I love the fact

1173
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 3: that everybody says this idea of myths. Everybody keeps repeating

1174
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 3: your mother was a saint, right, just like with Buddy.

1175
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 3: It's just so easy for everybody to just keep repeating

1176
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 3: the same line over and over again. It almost becomes

1177
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 3: meaningless because that's that's just what they know. And they

1178
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 3: just keep falling falling back on that. Okay, the drive

1179
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 3: in the fact that it ends at the drive in,

1180
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 3: and the fact that we get a flashback earlier at

1181
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 3: the drive in where they're they're they're dragged out of

1182
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 3: the car, right, and she even makes a comment about

1183
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 3: when does the picture start? And I think I'm going

1184
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 3: to argue that Sales is being a little tricky there

1185
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 3: that like, the old story is over, the old picture

1186
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 3: has ended, and the new picture gets to move forward. Right,

1187
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 3: that story has ended, the drive in is not showing

1188
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 3: that movie anymore, right, and they get to start a

1189
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 3: new one. And then here's my last thing. And I

1190
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 3: did notice this last night, and here again in that

1191
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 3: very first flashback, when Hollis is telling.

1192
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 4: The story of.

1193
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 3: Charlie Wade and Buddy Deeds, he the story ends with

1194
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:21,479
Speaker 3: Buddy saying as Charlie Wade exits with Hollis, it ends

1195
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 3: with Buddy saying, unomas servesa por right, And then we

1196
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 3: come out of the flashback with Hollis saying that line.

1197
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 3: Hollis is telling them that that's what Buddy said. But

1198
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 3: at that point Buddy is very clearly not I'm sorry.

1199
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 3: Hollis is very clearly in the past, not in the

1200
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 3: bar Hollis as the the way Sales has shot it,

1201
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 3: Hollis in the past would not have heard him say

1202
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 3: that line. So is that the myth making and we

1203
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 3: that's that's a sign sales Is is sneakily showing us

1204
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 3: that Hollis doesn't really know the whole truth, because he's

1205
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 3: fabricating that because he would have never heard that.

1206
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 4: Or did Sales just make a.

1207
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 2: Mistake or was it connutier.

1208
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 6: I don't know who'd for thought.

1209
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 2: Excellent questions and a good audience. Thank you, and a

1210
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 2: great please you veramiliar movie here.

1211
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you Alex and the Department of Cultural Affairs.

1212
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 3: This is so much fun. Thank you for coming out

1213
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 3: from this past November. That was me and Michael Phillips

1214
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,959
Speaker 3: in conversation about John Sales great nineteen ninety six film

1215
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 3: Lone Star. It followed a screening of the film that

1216
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 3: was part of the City of Chicago's fiftieth anniversary celebration

1217
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 3: of Siskel and Ebert. My thanks to Alex Vasquez everyone

1218
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 3: in the Chicago Film Office and the Department of Cultural

1219
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 3: Affairs for inviting me and inviting Film Spotting to be

1220
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 3: part of that celebration. That is our show. You can

1221
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 3: find me and Film Spotting on Instagram, Facebook, letterboxed of

1222
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 3: course YouTube where you can watch our video episodes. All

1223
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 3: of those platforms. You can find us at film Spotting.

1224
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 3: Josh is at Larsen on film. Film Spotting is independently

1225
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 3: produced and listener supported. You can support us by joining

1226
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,560
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1227
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,960
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1228
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 3: a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes, and access to the

1229
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1230
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:31,640
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1231
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1232
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:39,520
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1233
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,840
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1234
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:46,800
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1235
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 3: everyone at WBEZ Chicago. More information is available at wbez

1236
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 3: dot org for film Spotting, I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

1237
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 8: This conversation can serve no purpose any more.

1238
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 6: The fine.

1239
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 3: Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family

1240
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1243
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 3: film Spotting archive going back to two thousand and five.

1244
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:29,600
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1245
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 5: Panically