WEBVTT - Tone in Job Interviews 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:05.880 My colleagues, We'll stop commenting on everything I get my 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.080 assist at people and meeting. Why does my coworker keep 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.240 taking credit for all my ideas? Have any wisdom for me? Hi, 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.760 I'm Alison Green. Welcome to the Aska Manager podcast, where 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.520 I answer questions from listeners about life at work, everything 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:21.640 from what to say if you're allergic to your coworkers 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.800 perfume to what to do if you drink too much 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:28.920 at the company party. Let's get started, Hi, and welcome 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.400 to the show. Last year, I did a couple of 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:35.440 episodes that were all about tone. One was just generally 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.520 about what kind of tone to use in tricky conversations 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.440 at work, and one was about getting your tone right 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.280 when you're a manager. Those were some of the most 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.640 popular episodes of the show, and I've had requests to 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.160 do more of them on tone and other specific work situations. 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.280 So I thought that today we would talk about tone 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.280 and job interviews, because that is an interesting situation where 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:00.279 a lot of people feel like they're supposed to be 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.000 pretty deferential, but where in fact you will usually come 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:08.080 across better if you drop that deference. Now, to be clear, 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.680 that doesn't mean that you should be aggressive or adversarial 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.679 and job interviews you of course should not be, but 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.360 you will usually come across as a more confident and 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.160 a more appealing candidate if your tone is more matter 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:25.440 of fact, more collaborative, something closer to peers. So I 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.840 thought we could talk about the tone that you want 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.839 to strike in job interviews in general, and then talk 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.280 through some specific tricky situations that you might find yourself 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.520 in when your job searching, and what an effective tone 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:42.080 of voice will sound like. So let's first talk about 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:47.400 tone and job interviews in general. Job interviews have really 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.520 weird power dynamics in a lot of ways, more so 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.640 than other work situations do. A lot of people go 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.279 into interviews feeling like the interviewer has all the power 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.360 and they have none, and they want something that the 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:05.240 interviewer has a job, and so they feel like they 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.040 need to be very deferential throughout the whole process, and 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.400 that is not the right way to approach it. If 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.560 you are a good candidate, you have some power in 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.000 this situation too. This is not a situation where you're 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.280 just waiting for someone to decide to pick you, like 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.280 on the Bachelor. You should be evaluating your interviewer right 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.200 back and thinking about whether this is a job that 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.760 you want and a manager who you want to work with, 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.360 and a company that you want to work for. You 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.520 don't need to be really deferential, like you're a subject 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.359 talking to the king or the queen. You need to 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:42.239 be polite, of course, but that is different from deferential. 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.359 The tone that you want to use is actually really 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.120 similar to the tone that you would use in most 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:55.400 other business meetings. Friendly, collaborative, and direct. Think of yourself 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.600 as talking to a colleague you don't know very well, 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.680 and where the two of you are thinking about working 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.000 on a project together, because that actually is the situation here. 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.840 You're both trying to decide, not just the interviewer. Both 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.079 of you are trying to decide if it makes sense 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.560 to work together. It's not just you waiting for the 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.200 interviewer to pass judgment on you, which is the approach 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.560 and the vibe that a lot of people take into 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:24.440 an interview room with them. So that means things like 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.959 you don't need to apologize excessively if you aren't available 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:32.440 at the very first interview time an employer suggests, or 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.200 you don't need to act like you're committing a major crime. 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.920 If you decide to turn down a job, you're an 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.120 equal partner in this conversation about whether or not to 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:45.440 work together, even if you really really want this particular job. 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:49.080 And it's important to remember that because it will lead 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.480 you toward using the right tone and toward sounding like 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.800 a confident equal. And that's a lot more appealing to 0:03:55.880 --> 0:04:00.280 good employers than sounding overly deferential. Is now, I should 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:04.279 say there is actually an exception to that really bad employers, 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:08.840 because really bad employers sometimes do screen for people who 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.560 are overly deferential. Not deliberately, you know, it's not like 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.080 they're in their hiring planning process meetings and they say, 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:16.839 we really need to find someone who's going to cow 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:21.000 tow to us. It's generally more unconscious than that, but 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:25.400 at some level, bad employers often do screen for people 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.200 who are very differential because they want to hire people 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.000 who will accept very bad treatment as employees. So if 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:33.840 you're ever talking to someone who does some hiring and 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.320 they tell you, oh, no, I actually like to see 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:38.920 defference from job candidates, you know, I like it when 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.960 people really lean into the power dynamics of interviewing. That is, 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.880 someone who is revealing to you that they are probably 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.479 pretty terrible to work with. You want to screen them out, 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.680 and it is a good thing to do that. Now, 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:54.800 all that doesn't mean that there aren't still some power 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.320 dynamics in interviews that you need to play along with. 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.000 There are, and they usually show up as double stand 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.640 words like it's okay for your interviewer to answer their 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.800 phone in the middle of an interview, but it generally 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.120 would not be thought okay for you, as the candidate, 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.120 to do that same thing with being late. You know, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.479 your interviewer can get away with being a little late 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.599 and you can't. And that is just how the conventions 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.000 on this stuff are. But it doesn't translate into meaning 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.560 that your whole tone and demeanor needs to be super deferential, 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:30.120 because it doesn't. Okay, let's do some specific conversations that 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.560 you might have while you're interviewing and what your tone 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.560 should sound like. So let's say that you're sitting in 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.960 the interview and you're asked a question that you're just 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.080 completely stumped by. You have no idea how to answer it, 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.919 So first, don't try to bluff your way through it, 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:46.960 because they will probably be able to tell and that 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.760 will make you look bad, far worse than if you're 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.119 just honest about it. But what is being honest about 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:56.280 it actually sound like? So it could be the say, 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.280 you know, I actually don't know the answer to that. 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.320 When I have encountered similar things in the past, I've 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.119 done X and Y, and that usually gets me pointed 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.280 in the right direction. So matter of fact and confident, 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.520 your tone isn't conveying that you're mortified or that you're 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.560 worrying that you've blewned the interview. Your tone is saying 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.960 that you are a normal human, and normal humans don't 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.640 always have answers to everything, and you're comfortable with that, 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.200 and that's actually pretty appealing, and in fact, that will 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.960 probably be very intuitive if you think about how you 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.200 want coworkers to handle it when they don't know something. 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.720 You don't want them to blow a bunch of hot air, 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.280 you know, you don't want them to just bluff their 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:39.960 way through it. You want them to give an answer 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.560 that is is a matter of fact about the fact 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.720 that they don't know, but also where they don't sound 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:49.000 totally shaken that they don't know. Now, obviously, if the 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.680 answer to that one question is very crucial to you 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.400 getting hired. Then that's not great, but you know that 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.599 was going to be the case no matter what you said, 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.120 so you might as well sound pleasant and matter of 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.240 fact and not freaked out by being imperfect. And for 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:06.279 most situations where one single interview question isn't make or break, 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:10.000 that's going to help you. Okay, let's make it a 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.880 little more nerve racking. Let's say that as you're talking 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.720 to your interviewer, one of you realizes there's a mistake 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.640 on your resume. Maybe they point out that your resume 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:23.360 says that you left your last job in two or 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.040 something like that. You don't need to run out of 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.680 the room and shame or beg forgiveness or let it 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.760 throw you off your game. The rest of the time, 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.040 you just say, oh, no, thank you for bringing that 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.280 to my attention so I can fix it. I am 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:41.280 normally a neurotic proof reader. So this is mortifying. Now. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.360 Remember how with the example just before about not knowing 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:45.880 the answer to the question, I said you don't need 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:48.400 to sound mortified, But here I am actually saying the 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.000 words I'm mortified. And that is because in this case, 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.679 you need to convey that a mistake on your resume, 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.080 a document that is expected to be really polished is 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.040 out of character for you. You need to sound like 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.200 you take it seriously without sounding like you're gonna leave 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:08.960 and throw yourself down the elevator shaft as penance. Let's 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.440 do another one where you've messed up a bit. Let's 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.080 say you're stuck in traffic and you're you're realizing that 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.840 you're gonna be late to the interview. Now, ideally this 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.320 won't happen because you've allowed yourself a buffer, but you know, 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.840 sometimes it happens, and maybe it's your fault, maybe it's not, 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.560 but either way, now you have to call the employer 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.240 and tell them that you're running late, which no one 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.880 wants to do for an interview. The thing here, kind 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.360 of the same as with the resume mistake, is that 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.360 the interviewer has no way of knowing if this is 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.520 par for the course with you, you know, if you're 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.880 someone who's always late and as cavalier about it. So 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.319 you've got to convey with both your words and your 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.200 tone that this is not your normal MMO. So you 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.160 want to sound a little mortified, and you want to 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.480 make it clear that you take it seriously and This 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.679 is actually an example of one of those double standards 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.760 I was talking about earlier, because it is true that 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.680 your interviewer can stroll in twenty minutes late your interview 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.400 and not sound mortified about it. But convention says you 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.120 are supposed to be on time as the candidate. I 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.600 don't want that to undercut my message at the start 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:11.679 of the show about how your equals because you are. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.760 This is just about recognizing the convention around this type 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.640 of thing. So when you call it sounds like this, 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.760 I'm so sorry about this. I had left with plenty 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.400 of extra time, but there is a massive traffic jam 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.920 on three that looks like it's going to make me 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.360 about ten or fifteen minutes late, and I realized that 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.840 is later than you had planned. Well, that's still work 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.920 for your schedule. So the tone is concerned and taking 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.520 it seriously, but also not you know, throwing yourself on 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:44.040 their mercy. You're still an adult equal. Let's do a 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.040 short break here. We'll come back with some examples where 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.959 you are not the one messing up your interviewer is. 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:01.839 Let's talk through more example of tone when you're interviewing. 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:06.319 Let's say that your interviewer asks you an inappropriate question, 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:10.280 like asking about your religion or your plans for having kids, 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.920 or something else they shouldn't be asking about. Now, I 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.840 do want to know that, despite widespread belief to the contrary, 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.040 it's actually not illegal in the United States for an 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.040 interviewer to ask you about those things. There's no law 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.199 that says they can't ask about your religion, or your ethnicity, 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.120 or whether you're married, or plans for kids. What is 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.760 illegal is for them to make a hiring decision based 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:39.000 on your answers to those questions. So the question itself legal, 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.040 Doing anything at all with the information illegal, and so 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.320 because of that, smart employers don't ask those questions. You know, 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.319 it's opening the door for you to think later if 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.680 they reject to you that maybe it was based on 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.360 your answers to those questions, and that's asking for legal 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.760 trouble um. You know. One exception to this I should 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.360 note is actually disability. It is it is goal for 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.000 them to ask direct questions about disability, But for the 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.720 other categories that people tend to limp in, there no 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:11.199 just using the info anyway. Some people will ask anyway, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.400 as in some cases it's because they're ignorant of the law, 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:16.680 or they don't care about the law. But in a 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.760 lot of cases, they're just making small talk without realizing 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.959 that they're straying into dangerous territory. Like someone might ask 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.680 you if you have kids because you've just moved to 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.120 the area, and they're making small talk and they're going 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.080 to offer some helpful advice on their local schools or something, 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.280 and you're sitting there thinking, crap, are they weird about parents? 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:38.600 And they were trying to figure out if I'm going 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.880 to need to leave early for childcare pickup or something, 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:46.320 So it's all very fraught. What do you do when 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.280 you get asked one of these questions that you really 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.440 shouldn't be asked. Honestly, if your sense is that the 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.320 person really is just making small talk, they're just trying 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.760 to be friendly, you will generally get a better outcome 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.079 if you take it in spirit. But if you get 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.880 the sense that something sketchier is going on, one option 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.959 is to answer the question that you think they're really 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.840 trying to get at, Like if you think they're asking 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.040 if you have kids because they're worried that you won't 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.440 be at work reliably, you can sidestep the question of 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.840 kids and just say something like, oh, there's nothing in 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.080 my personal life that would interfere with my ability to 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:24.880 work the hours of the job and to make the 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:30.680 work a top priority, so breazy speaking directly to the concern. 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.520 If something is more overtly offensive, or if you just 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.280 can't figure out what they're really getting at, you can 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:42.440 always say why do you ask? The key here, though, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.080 is that you have to say it in a friendly, 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.320 pleasant tone and just sound curious, not piste off. I 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:51.160 mean you don't have to, of course, but if you're 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.959 still interested in the job and you want to preserve rapport, 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.400 why do you ask? Is a good way to respond 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:02.160 that doesn't seem wildly adversarial. You could even say, I've 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.280 never been asked that before in an interview. What makes 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:12.000 you ask? So? Curious? Pleasant, not defensive? Just why do 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.560 you ask that? Let's do another tricky one. Let's say 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.920 that you're interviewing with a company and you found that 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.920 they have really awful reviews on something like glass Door. 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.880 Not like one or two bad reviews, because those can 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:28.440 be outliers, but a real pattern of just terrible reviews 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.760 from their employees. You can ask about that, and really 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.800 you should ask about it because unless you're in a 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:35.880 desperate position where you need to take just any job 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.360 that's offered to you, you want to know what you're 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.360 getting into and you want to see how they respond. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.400 Do they just give you some public relations fluff or 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.840 do they engage with the topic in a serious way 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.280 that sounds like they're making real changes. But you've got 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.320 to ask about it in a way that doesn't sound accusatory. 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.880 You don't want to make them feel defensive or like 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.600 you're calling them out on something. You want to sound 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.800 like you're saying, basically, hey, I saw this thing that 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.120 concerned me. I know there might be more to it. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.440 What can you tell me about it? So that might 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.800 sound like this, I've noticed that the company's reviews from 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.040 employees on glassdoor include a lot of concerns about culture 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.720 and work hours, and I'm curious what your take is 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:18.560 on that and if it's something that the company is 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:23.120 working to change. So inquisitive and curious, but not accusatory. 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.640 And really, if someone reacts badly to that, that's going 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.160 to tell you a lot. Okay, let's say that you're 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.200 interviewing for a job and You're talking to a bunch 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.280 of different people there, and as you do, you're hearing 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.320 conflicting things about the job. One person tells you that 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.800 the focus is X, and another person says, oh, X 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.360 isn't as important as it used to be. Why is 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.680 really where this person will will be focusing or whatever. 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.080 But the idea is you're hearing different things from different people, 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.760 and it's important enough that you want to get it 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.720 clarified before you could comfortably take that job. So maybe 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.880 you say something like this, I've noticed that I have 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.280 her different perspectives on the job from Jane and Bob 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.720 and Olivia, and it sounds like, on one hand, some 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:07.800 people want to see the job focus on X, but 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.800 other people really think it should be focusing on why. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.080 Can you help me get a better sense of how 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.480 those are going to be balanced and whether there is 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.680 internal alignment about what people want to see from the position. 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.480 So again, the tone here, matter of fact, curious, here's 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.320 this thing that I've noticed, can you just help me 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:30.040 understand it better now? I took a look through some 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.240 past letters at the Asking Manager website that we're asking 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.120 questions about interviews where tone was especially important, and I 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.360 thought we could talk through some of those two. One 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.720 person wrote in about an interview that they had where 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.520 their interviewers all seemed to have some kind of problem 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.760 with the job itself, the job that she was interviewing for, 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.240 and they kept saying things like, well, what do you 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:54.760 think is missing from this job description? And what do 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.960 you see as problematic about this job? And she, of 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.360 course was wondering what is going on because it seems 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:03.200 like a red flag, but she wasn't sure how to 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.360 figure out what it was really about. So when something 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.200 in an interview is confusing you, it is okay to 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.720 ask about it. In a situation like that, you could 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.400 say something that sounds like this, I'm curious about the 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:18.960 questions that you're asking. It sounds like you might have 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.840 some concerns about how the role is structured. Am I 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:27.120 reading that correctly? Or maybe it's this I'm curious to 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.360 hear your thoughts on that question too. Do you think 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.720 there's something problematic about the role? You ought to be pleasant, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.240 your tonys to sound curious, not annoyed, But you're there 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.520 to get information just as much as they are, and 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.200 it's okay to ask about what you're hearing. If it's 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.120 not clear to you. Another person wrote in asking if 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.200 there was a way to ask if they would have 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.520 to work much with one particular person. Apparently there was 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.360 someone who was just like rude and horrible throughout the process, 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.560 and they had heard bad things about them, and they 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.720 were wondering, is there a way to say, you know, hey, 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.240 I'm interested in the job, but how closely would I 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.119 be working with that guy? You can't say it like that, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.600 of course, but you could say something that sounds like this, 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:09.800 I have so enjoyed getting the chance to learn more 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.000 about the job. Can you give me a sense of 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.639 how my role interacts with Bob? How closely would we 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:19.400 end up working together? If at all? The tone here 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.359 has got to be neutral the way I just did it. 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.520 You don't want it to sound like you're saying I 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.359 don't want to work with Bob. The person you're talking 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.960 to is probably going to figure out why you're asking, 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.240 but it's important that you do it in a way 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.840 that sounds professional. Well, we are zipping through these examples, 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:38.880 which is good because it means we can fit in 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.720 a bunch more of them. Let's do a final break here, 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:43.280 and then I want to come back with a whole 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:47.159 bunch more, including how to talk to a hostile interviewer, 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.439 and also how to talk about an especially sensitive topic 0:17:50.680 --> 0:18:01.880 being fired, and lots more. I sometimes get letters from 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:07.240 people who encounter truly hostile interviewers, interviewers who are just jerks, 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.720 and you figure out during the conversation that there is 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:12.520 no way in hell that you would ever take a 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.200 job working for this person. If you are in that situation, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.160 you don't need to stay and be abused. You are 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.679 allowed to end the interview early, just like the interviewer 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.440 is allowed to do that too. The most low key 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.720 way to do it is to say something like this. 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.480 You know, as we're talking, I'm getting the sense that 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.960 the fit here wouldn't be right. I really appreciate your time, 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.359 best of like filling the position, but I think we 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:42.000 should probably wrap up here. And that's the tone, polite 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.560 but matter of fact and firm. But if you want 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.000 to be more direct about it, and sometimes you might 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.479 want to, if you're not worried about burning a bridge, 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.840 it could be something like this. I have to be honest, 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.400 your tone is really throwing me here. I don't think 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.760 we would work well together, so I don't think it 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.480 makes sense to keep talking, but I appreciate your time 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.000 meeting with me, and I wish you the best in 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:10.120 filling the job. That's a or let's say you realize 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.160 during the interview you definitely aren't going to take this job, 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.639 but it's not because anyone's being a jerk. It's just 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:17.720 clear to you that it's not the right job for you. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.280 In most of those cases, it does make sense to 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.040 just stay and finish it out, because you know, who 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.080 knows it's possible that they'll have an opening in the 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.080 future that you do want, so you want to make 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.080 a good impression. But if you're like in the middle 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.960 of an all day interview, it doesn't make sense for 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.199 you or for them to invest a bunch of hours 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.159 when you already know you're not taking the job. So 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:43.119 in that case, you can say something like this, you know, 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.040 as we're talking, I'm realizing this probably isn't the right 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.800 fit for me. I really appreciate the time you've spent 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:50.879 talking to me, but I wouldn't feel right taking it 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.480 more of your time now. Ideally, you would also say 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.600 something brief if there's something you're comfortable with that explains 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.119 what you're reasoning if you can capture it easily in 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.320 a sentence or two. So it might be something like, 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.080 you know, as we're talking, I'm realizing I'm looking for 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.679 something that's more X oriented. Or I hadn't realized the 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.440 job was so heavily focused on X, or it sounds 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.639 like we're much farther apart on salary than I had realized. 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:25.080 So again, matter of fact, pleasant, warm, but but direct 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.240 about what you are thinking. Okay, let's say you have 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.440 had multiple interviews with the company and they just keep 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.840 asking for more. I'm not talking about two or three interviews. 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.720 That's pretty normal, but some people end up with five 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.400 or six or even more interviews for the same job. 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.160 If that is happening and they have not clearly told 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.800 you what remains in the process, you can ask about it. 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.840 So it would sound like this, can you tell me 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.240 more about what steps are still remaining in the process 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.920 and what you're likely timeline is for a decision. Or 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.160 you could even say, I'm so interested in this position, 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.560 but it's becoming harder for me to take time of 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.480 work for additional meetings. Is there any way we could 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.840 consolidate some of the remaining steps so the tone there 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.199 isn't demanding, but it's a sort of it's pleasant, but 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.679 it's still as sort of. Now, let's say that you 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:19.960 go through the interview process and you get the offer 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:22.320 and you want to ask for some kind of perk, 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.840 like let's say, working from home on Fridays. It helps 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.560