1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and this week Julie is 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: out on vacation, so we thought we would rerun a 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: pair of episodes that we were really proud of, and 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: we received a lot of positive feedback from our listeners 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: about I'm speaking, of course, of the Scientists and the Shaman. 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: This two parter deals with psychedelics, with the psychedelic compounds, 9 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: electropic compounds that have been with this for ages. Uh, 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: their effects on the human mind, and how modern science 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: is turning back to some of these substances to see 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: how they can aid us in understanding how the mind works, 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: how to treat various disorders, et cetera. So uh, and 14 00:00:53,080 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: have a listen to this classic pair of episodes. Just 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: up front, I want to mention that on this podcast 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: and the other Shaman and Scientists podcast that we're putting out, 17 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: we are going to be talking about psychedelics, and by 18 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: which I mean psychedelic drugs of it. So just be 19 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: aware we're gonna handle this and a mature science backboned 20 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: since but I know that this subject is probably not 21 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: for everybody, So just a fair warning that that's what 22 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about. And we do not advocate 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: the use of psychedelic substances and illicit substances at all 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: in orged you not to do them. But the science 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: behind them is really fascinating. The current scientific investigations of 26 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: how they affect our mind and what they can help 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: uncover about how our minds work is totally game, totally 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: in our wheelhouse. So we just had to cover it. 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: We've covered a little bit in the past, So here 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: another couple of slices from that particular cake. Yeah, And 31 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: we just couldn't help it because a lot of times 32 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: we talk about what is consciousness and we'll get deeper 33 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: into that question in this podcast, but psychedelics, turns out, 34 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: can help us answer that question or get a little 35 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: bit closer to what we think consciousness is. Um. But 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: all of this was actually inspired by a talk that 37 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: you went to, Yes, and you went to in a 38 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: sense yeah, yeah, yeah, via the wonderful recording that you 39 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,399 Speaker 1: took of it. Um. It was a talk at Emory University. Yeah. Yes, 40 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: it was called four I Am the Black Jaguar. Well, 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: it was part of the four I Am the Black 42 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: Jaguar exhibit, which is an art exhibit they did having 43 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: to do with shamanistic visionary experience in ancient American art. 44 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: So a lot of ancient American art that depicts things 45 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: that that you know, it might be jaguars, it might 46 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: be mushroom men, things of this nature that have something 47 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: to do with shamanistic traditions, particularly as they relate to 48 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: the consumption of psychedelic psychotropic substances. And a lot of 49 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: it too, is this unity with nature and this unity 50 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: of man, or the duality i should say of of 51 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: human and animal, and then the bringing together of these 52 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: different aspects right our humans. And the talk that I 53 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: attended was given by Dr Catherine McLean, and also Dr 54 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: Charles Raison was there as well. But McLean is particularly 55 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: interesting because she is involved with some really groundbreaking investigations 56 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: at Johns Hopkins where they are looking into again how 57 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: these substances affect the human mind and human consciousness and 58 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: human perceptions and what that can tell us about how 59 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: our brains actually work. Because one of the things she 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: pointed out in her talk is that you know, we're 61 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: talking about how these things change our consciousness affect our consciousness, 62 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: and we already have a difficult time actually saying what 63 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: human consciousness is and how it works. To get back 64 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: to the title of the episode, we're talking about the 65 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: show like the voice she did? So can you do 66 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: that again? Which one the title of not just the episode, 67 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: but of the exhibit for I am the Black Tech War. 68 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: Y see, I was listening to an old Timothy Leary 69 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: album earlier to get kind of stoked. Larry was first 70 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: of scientists, then a shaman, and uh, anyway, we're gonna 71 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: get into that a little more. But on the surface 72 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: of things, you have the shaman in one category and 73 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: the scientists and the other. Right, dragging in a lot 74 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: of stereotypes here, but the shaman. You think of the shaman, 75 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: you think of somebody that's spiritual. They're ritualistic, they're magical, 76 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: their heartfelt, they might have a really long beard and 77 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: varying degrees of robes or no robes at all, right, 78 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: man or a woman, man or woman. Then you have 79 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: the scientist, which again can be a man or a woman, 80 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: but logical, meticulous, reasoned um with a certain amount of 81 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: distance between themselves and their their feelings and the subject 82 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: matter they're looking into. So we on the surface of things, 83 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: we tend to think of these as very different, different 84 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: people and very different modes of perception when it comes 85 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: to the realities of the world and the realities of 86 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: the mind. But the curious thing, okay, is that all right? 87 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: So the shaman he looks inward, He or she looks 88 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: inward at the mysteries of the soul and human consciousness, 89 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: and so too, of course, does the con and a neuroscientists. So, um, 90 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, the questions of who are we, what's the 91 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: root cause of human suffering? How do we achieve liberation 92 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: from it? How can we treat mental illness? Questions of 93 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: these nature's nature are on various levels covered by both sides. 94 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: So while they're they're very different. If you were to 95 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: form a then diagram, you know, with the two circles 96 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: with partial overlap, and you had one circle as the shaman, 97 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: one circle as the neuroscientists, there would be a definite 98 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: overlap there. Now, of course, the shaman helps you explore 99 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: these questions by bringing into a sacred space, producing a 100 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: tray of magical substances that, when consumed, alter your perception. 101 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: Uh an experience of reality, setting you on a journey 102 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: of exploration. Meanwhile, the scientist brings you into a lab, right, 103 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: gives you a pill that might be a placeba, and 104 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: then run some tests on you, maybe throws you into 105 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: a brain imaging machine or hooks you up to some sensors. Right, 106 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: these seem like very different scenarios that one might find 107 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: oneself in. But then there's also some interesting overlap here 108 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: as well, particularly John hop Into University School of Medicine. 109 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: That's where again Dr Kathery McClain conducts her research along 110 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,679 Speaker 1: with a very talented assortment of professionals, and they find 111 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: themselves not going completely halfway between the shaman and the scientists, 112 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: but entering a little more into that shamanistic territory because 113 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: they keep like a calm, meditative space to put the 114 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: test subjects in when they are given some of these 115 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: likedelic substances. And Kathery McClain in this talk at Emory 116 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: actually spoke a bit about her role as a kind 117 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: of guide for these people too, because they end up 118 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 1: trying to to color their experiences to a to an extent, 119 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, to to guide their trip, as it were, 120 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: in a direction that's more positive so that they can 121 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: study it. Yeah, we talked about this a bit in 122 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: our podcast about hallucinogens and stage four cancer patients who 123 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: were taking hallucinogens in an effort to try to UM 124 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: get over this huge obstacle of fear that was really 125 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: actually um just of affecting them on a level where 126 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: they were like deer in the headlights. They couldn't even 127 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: operate in the space of their lives anymore. And so UM, 128 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about this idea where in a 129 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: lab setting you want to have a level of trust, 130 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: you want to make it as comforting as possible, and 131 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: so the researchers, the scientists are, as you say, taking 132 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: on this persona of guide, of spiritual guide to a 133 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: certain extent, because they have to guide people through this. 134 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: And I think it's really interesting that Kathleen McClain is 135 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: also a Buddhist and she does kind of inhabit that 136 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: space of the Shawoman from time to time, heavy and the 137 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: the meditation and all that. And I can't help to 138 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: think about another past podcast UM having to do with 139 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: magicians in neuroscience, because again you've got neuroscience looking at magicians, UM, 140 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: looking at these hundreds of years old practices and trying 141 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: to learn something about reality and illusion and how our 142 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: mind tricks us and what if so central to this 143 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: idea of mind trickery, I think is something called the 144 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: monkey mind. And probably a lot of you out there 145 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: are familiar with this concept that this constant chatter in 146 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: our brains UM can sometimes hamstring us when we're trying 147 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: to accomplish things in our lives. UM. And of course 148 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: this all points back to the question of consciousness and 149 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: this idea about whether or not consciousness is actually a 150 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: static thing. Now McClain and her talk says, I'm not 151 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: quite sure consciousness is something that is coherent, UM. But 152 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: again it's this idea of trying to get into what's 153 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: going on in these three pounds of computation material in 154 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: our brains. UM. She says, you know, it's hard to 155 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 1: to really try to pin it down and figure out 156 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,199 Speaker 1: what's going on. She says, we can't explain normal consciousness 157 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: in terms of neuroscience, so explaining altered states of consciousness 158 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: is even more difficult. And UM, I also wanted to 159 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: point this out too, as we begin to delve into 160 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: consciousness and the monkey mind. UM. I've brought this up before. 161 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: There was a study by Harvard psychologist Daniel Gilbert and 162 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: Matthew Killingsworth, and they actually developed an iPhone app that 163 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: would track people's um waking states and their ability to 164 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 1: concentrate and so on and so forth and something like 165 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: a people participated in this study and what they found 166 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: was that mind wandering is something that takes up half 167 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: of our time. And that seems pretty big, But when 168 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: you step back and you look at it throughout the day, 169 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: you know how, when you're not speaking, when you're not 170 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: um doing something that really requires you to fire in 171 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: all four cylinders, what are you doing your daydreaming? Right? 172 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: So hence you've got this monkey mind, and hence you 173 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: have this idea that maybe some of this consciousness points 174 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: back to this chatter in our brains. Yeah. There you 175 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: see that this represented various ways to another um out 176 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: modes of thought. Outside of science, there's always the classic 177 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: vision of the guy with a demon on one shoulder 178 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: and an angel on the other. These little voices that 179 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: are chattering Adam, saying you should be doing this, No, 180 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: you should be doing this. You should steal that candy bar, No, 181 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: you should pay for that candy bar with with hard 182 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: earned money, can you steal it? Um? I always try 183 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: and compromise still half of it by the other half, 184 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: you know. But it's the classic more dilemma whether to 185 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: to steal the candy bar. But then you also have 186 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: people like new Age guru Akarta who calls it the 187 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: going mind um and you see that term thrown around 188 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,319 Speaker 1: a lot as well, this idea that it's a this 189 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: this mode of thinking that very tied into who I am, 190 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: what my story is. We've talked about that before when 191 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about storytelling and the power of storytelling and 192 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: how we all kind of see our lives in this 193 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: mode of story. I am the central character in my story, 194 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: and these are the obstacles I am up against. These 195 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: are the things I have achieved, and these are the 196 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: things that I've lost. Um. So it's this default mode network, 197 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: as it's called in the scientific papers, not to be 198 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: confused with depeche mode network, because that's that would waver 199 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: between just can't get enough in black celebration. Whereas the 200 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: default mode network is again this this this sort of 201 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: idle thinking zone, and you know, it's it's in it's 202 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: better states. It's introspective. It's daydreaming, and it's worst states, 203 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: it's depressive. It's that that demon on your shoulder beating 204 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: you up and saying, oh, these are the things that 205 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: that I don't have anymore, These are the things about 206 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: me that suck and and and I'm never going to 207 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: succeed in this kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, this 208 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: is where when we start talking about consciousness and defining 209 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: the eye of ourselves, you start to look at the 210 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: default mode network, because this is where you have your 211 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: pastiche of memories, feelings, and thoughts and again that chatter 212 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: that me, me, me. What we're talking about when we 213 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: talk about the default mode network is the medial prefrontal cortex, 214 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: the medial parietal cortex, and the medial temporal lobes. And 215 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: the idea there's a couple of different theories about what 216 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: they're doing ing um. The idea is that these associations 217 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: between these different parts of the brain are the brain's 218 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: baseline of processing and information, where we consolidate experiences and 219 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: we prepare to react to the environment. The second theory 220 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: is that it also facilitates stream of conscious thought, also 221 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: known as stimulus independent thought, which I think is really 222 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: interesting to know stimulus independent thought, meaning you're not even 223 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: aware of your surroundings. You're just chattering, chattering, chattering to me. 224 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: I think of it as like, you know, driving to 225 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: work every day and I pulled into the parking lot 226 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: and go, oh, how did I get here? I don't 227 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: really have a memory of that because I was so 228 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: consumed with my own thoughts. Um. So sort of stuff 229 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: that you see in daydreaming. Again, keep in mind that 230 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: half of our day is spent in the state of daydreaming. 231 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: Um and it's important that here right also totally takes 232 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: you out of your surroundings. You know, like on your 233 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: your drive to work, we've kind of go into autopilot 234 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: mode and suddenly you're there because it's like you weren't 235 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: actually on that drive to work. You were wrapped up 236 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: in these thoughts of what happened yesterday or what's going 237 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: to happen and with the rest of your day, uh, 238 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: totally wrapped up in your thought life. You everything else 239 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: in your surroundings, be it you know, the the highway 240 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: on the drive to work, or a beautiful park or 241 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: the love of your family, all of it just kind 242 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: of fades as this inner dialogue kicks up, and by 243 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: pointing out the parts of the brain, I think that's 244 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: the really amazing part here is that you know, on 245 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: one hand, we're talking about the devil and angel on 246 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: your soldiers. We're talking about grasping in the Buddhist sense 247 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: for for things that you want or don't have, and 248 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: and all of this this inner and kind of spiritual stuff. 249 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: But we can actually look at the brain and look 250 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: at the part the network that lights up when the 251 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: when this kind of thinking takes place right. And this 252 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: this kind of thinking does need to happen right because 253 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: it is balancing the sense of self and this ego 254 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: and again it's giving us some sort of um consciousness 255 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: or idea of ourselves through this process. The problem, of course, 256 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: is when there's hyperactivity in this area. It's like like 257 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: when a dog has some sort of problem on its scan. Right, 258 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: it's gonna lick, it's gonna know a little bit. But 259 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: then it gets out of hand when that gnawing and 260 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: that looking never stops, when it turns into self harm. 261 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: And certainly we see that time and time again in 262 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: patients of a variety of mental problems, where we see 263 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: that that see this heightened activity in this default mode network. Yeah, 264 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: and according to Dr Charles Frey Salam, who is also 265 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: part of that talk, people with depression exhibit hyperactivity in 266 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: the default mode network. So, as you say, it's fascinating 267 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: because you can literally point to that brain scan and 268 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: you can see that hyperactivity and you can see that 269 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: it's the cause of some of this depression. Because now 270 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: think about that chattering in this UM, this idea of 271 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: that that chattering is absolutely involved with self and worry. 272 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: So what you have going on is is this sort 273 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: of midline chatter that is encouraging a person to turn inward. 274 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: And then in addition to that hyperactive default mode network, 275 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: it becomes more and more entangled with the anterior singulate cortex, 276 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: which is responsible for the fear response. So not only 277 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: do you have this turning in word, you now have 278 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: a fear factor that's involved, and this can contribute really 279 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: heavily to depression. Yeah, all right, we're gonna take a 280 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: quick break. Stay tuned for more. So we bring all 281 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: of this up because this is really important in terms 282 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: of UM some experiments with hallucinogens and perhaps relieving this depression. 283 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: This quieting the default mode network as well as meditation. Right, 284 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: and before we get that, do of course need to stress. 285 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: The thing about the default mode network is that under 286 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: normal situations, it's more active during rest than it is 287 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: during cask performance. So it's it's when you're in that uh, 288 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: that easy state of driving to work a road that 289 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: you travel every day, or you're waiting on something, you're 290 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: sitting around, it's it's like the screen saver of your mind. 291 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: But if you're busy, if you are just vigorously trying 292 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: to get something done at the last minute, or you're 293 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: in that state of flow the job or a hobby 294 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: that you love, or certainly if you're engaging saying yoga 295 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: where you're you're totally in your body and not in 296 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: your mind, we see that network shut down to a 297 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: certain extent. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because 298 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: there is this idea of getting outside of yourself. Right, 299 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: So if you're doing something that's in the state of flow, 300 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: then you're getting outside of that chatter and that that 301 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: mind and you're quieting the default mode network. Now, this 302 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: is where we're gonna get a little more back into 303 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: into psychedelics. And I just want to do a quick 304 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: note about the nature of psychedelicist reminded about what we're 305 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: talking about here. Okay, uh, for the most part, especially 306 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: as far as shamanistic practices go, you know, ancient spiritual 307 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: practices that date back long before ability to create synthetic drugs. 308 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: We're talking about naturally occurring substances such as psilocybin, mushrooms, iowa, 309 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: sa vines. We're talking about peyote, cacti and other naturally 310 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: occurring psychoactics, after substances in vegetation, in animals, uh, you know, 311 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: code centipedes, what have you. And then when taken, they 312 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 1: have the potential to alter vulturally every level of awareness 313 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: and experience. Now, some of you listening may have had 314 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: some sort of experiences with this kind of altered state 315 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: of mind, either naturally occurring or due to illness or 316 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: any other lucid dreaming that sometimes dreaming and sometimes in 317 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: this character. But for for a lot of a lot 318 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: of other people, you may think you may hear about, 319 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: you know, tripping on psychedelics, and you instantly think of 320 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: the movie Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, or any 321 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: number of movies that have attempted to show an altered 322 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: state of awareness and perception. It's kind of kind of 323 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: like Hollywood tripping. And it's important to note that while yes, 324 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: if one took enough of certain hallucinogens, they could have 325 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: this kind of very visual, crazy fantastic experience of dinosaurs 326 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: climbing out of the walls and all that. Yes, that's 327 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: that's possible, but that's not that in and of itself 328 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: is just like one slice of the cake. There are 329 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: a lot of other modes of perception and modes of 330 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: understanding that can be altered by psychedelics. We're talking about 331 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: changes in your awareness of your own body, of visual peculiarities, 332 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: audible peculiarities, strangeness and thought, and perception in the experience 333 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: of time and self. So pretty much any way that 334 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: we think or see the world can be tweaked, you know, 335 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: because what we talked again earlier, like what is consciousness? 336 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: All right, Well, what do we know about how we 337 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: think and what our brain is. We know that their 338 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: chemical processes, that biological processes, and it's subject to change. 339 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: You can change the way you think by looking at 340 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: a puppy or or a cat. We've talked about that before. 341 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: They're there are all sorts of ways to tweak what 342 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: you're experiencing and how you're experiencing the world, and how 343 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: you're constructing this world that you perceive. We talked about, 344 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, the whole child versus adult. The child has 345 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: this lamplight view of the world and then the human 346 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: has the flashlight view. I mean, all of this is 347 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about changes in perception and these substances. Depending 348 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: on what a person takes, how much they take, and 349 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: also an individual's particular biochemistry, it'll it'll affect that person 350 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: on varying levels. Yes, So I think it's interesting to 351 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: introduce it like that because there are various ways, as 352 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: you say, we can change our perception, and you can 353 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: sort of do it a little bit or a lot, 354 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: and certainly through something like psilocybin, that is something that 355 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: will get you into that spot where you are sort 356 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: of blowing open the doors of perception. And that is 357 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: why scientists use it, because they are trying to figure 358 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: out how it is interacting with the brain, what it's 359 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: doing um to personality as well. So we talked about 360 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: the default mode network and depression. Then it makes sense 361 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: that neuroscientists want to look at psilocybin and see what 362 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: sort of effect it has on the human brain. Yeah. Now, 363 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: another interesting thing about research into this, and we've stepped 364 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: in this in the past, and around the mid fifties, 365 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: that's when science really got that interested in psychedelics and 366 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: and that's also you know, you saw the advent of 367 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: LSD in that age, and you also saw of course 368 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: the rise of the counterculture and all that. So by 369 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: the end of the nineteen sixties you saw the the 370 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: end of actual research into this because it started off 371 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: people were looking into, Okay, what are these chemicals doing, 372 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: how are they affecting the mind? And then you have 373 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: Timothy Leary out there, but you know, again initially approaching 374 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: things from a more scientific standpoint, but then becoming more 375 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: and more of a cultural figure and more of the 376 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: shaman and less of the scientists. And then eventually you 377 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: have people like John C. Lily who are just taking 378 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: LSD in there in the tank next to the apartment 379 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: in which the dolphin lives, so that he can communicate 380 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: with the dolphin people, and and subsequently losing his funding 381 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: because eventually it just gets so nunny that they pull 382 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: his funding. So you're right, it starts to get clouded 383 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: with this idea that it's not a good idea to 384 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: research this culturally, politically, it just falls off until basically, 385 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: I'm saw the dawn of the twenty one century and 386 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: and so we that's where we are now a decade 387 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: and some change into that. Yeah, then these really saw 388 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: a resurgence in this and particularly the last couple of 389 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: years too. We've seen a ton of data coming online 390 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: about this UM. But when we talk about the default 391 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: mode network and depression and psilocybin, it's important to talk 392 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: about someone named David Jane Nutt. He's a psychiatrist at 393 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: the Imperial College of London, and his team recruited fifteen 394 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: healthy people, people that they made sure to scan beforehand 395 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: and that they are sort of thing that they were 396 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 1: sound and mind and body UM. And then they also 397 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that these people had previous experience 398 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: taking hallucinogens. This is key and this is something that 399 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: McLean brought up in her talk as well. Because you're 400 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: bringing people into experiment UM, you know how their brains 401 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: work and how they perceive things in the state. You 402 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: don't want to be to introduce them to it for 403 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: the first time because that can be a very overwhelming 404 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: and frightening experience better that the that the test subjects 405 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: have some experience with this altered state of awareness, some 406 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: sort of context, so that they can study the effects 407 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: of it better. Over a two day period, the researchers 408 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: monitored activity in the brains of these volunteers as they 409 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 1: land a scanner for up to an hour. On the 410 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: first day, participants received an intravenent shot of the placebo solution. Uh. 411 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: The next day they got a shot of psilocybin that 412 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: was dosed to peak about uh, let me see, about 413 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: four minutes, and then was mostly over at about thirty minutes. 414 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: We're talking to my short, short amount of time here. Yeah, 415 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: because the traditional you know, hippie way of taking these 416 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: in the shamanistic way of taking these substances, of course, 417 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: just to eat it, which then is a gradual absorption, 418 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: gradual trip. That with a gradual you know, I'm thinking hippies, 419 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, anyone who would say, pick one of these 420 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: things in the natural world and eat it. That is 421 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: going to be a slower uptake and then a slower 422 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: fall off. But this is introduced with I V. So 423 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: it's just like a rocket ship. On a side note, too. 424 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: It's probably really obvious to the participants which was the 425 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: placebo in which was the actual psilocybin in this case. 426 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: Don't you think I have to guess there's not much 427 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: of a placebo effect. Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely. So 428 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: all of the participants described kaleidoscope vision with images of 429 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: bright and angular shapes. UM. The rush of the first 430 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: tend to thirty seconds and do some fear nuts said, 431 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 1: but positive feelings then swept over them, and many participants 432 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: said that the benefits of the experience were profound and 433 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: they felt that they had moved on from where they 434 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: had been. UM. So what they found when they were 435 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: scanning the brains of these participants was a decrease in 436 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: both blood flow and metabolism in several key areas after injection. 437 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: So we're talking about the anterior singulate cortex, so that 438 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: was the one that I mentioned that has a lot 439 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: to do with the the fear and pain response. And 440 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: also they saw that default mode network quieting itself. So 441 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: what they found is that here is this way that 442 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: you can dial down hyperactivity or activity in general in 443 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: this area of the brain and perhaps relieve depression through 444 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: this process. And on one level. I mean, how into 445 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: your own problems can you be if the wall is 446 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: breathing right, This is true, there's not a lot of me, 447 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: me me going on, and it is interested. Along those lines, 448 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that mcclaimantion is how a lot 449 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: of this research she feels needs to get out of 450 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: the lab and deal with because traditionally shamanistically they're not 451 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: taking these substances and then watching twin peaks in the basement, 452 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, they're they're not shutting their eyes and plugging 453 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: in some headphones. Now they're taking them in nature. They're 454 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: they're experiencing the natural world through these substances. Granted, they're 455 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: experiencing an altered understanding and experience of the natural world, 456 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: but it's a rather different kettle fish than taking it 457 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: inside of a closed environment. So again, someone is suddenly 458 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: becoming more aware of what's around them and outside of themselves, 459 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: as opposed to that same sad old story about who 460 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: they are and what their their deal is. Now there's 461 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: still the question about how long this um this can 462 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: actually affect person, and that's what they're trying to still 463 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: go through this data and figure out if these are 464 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: long term, meaningful changes in terms of alleviating depression. And 465 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: we'll talk more about that in in part two of 466 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: this episode. So I did want to mention that there's 467 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: another way to go about quieting the default mode network, 468 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: and right now it seems to be the best way 469 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: to go about it in terms of sustaining long term, 470 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: meaningful changes to your brain. And this is through meditation. Yes, 471 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: and this is yeah, this is really fascinating. We spoke earlier. 472 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: You know, when you when you're you're looking at the 473 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: brain and activity in the brain, you can we're able 474 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: to identify what's happening with this particular network that we're 475 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: identifying this uh, this default mode network, and then under psilocybin, 476 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: we're watching the activity there decrease. But then the same 477 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: thing occurs, the same decreation occurs during meditation. Now it's 478 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: important to note here that that the similar brain activity 479 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: in brain scans, that doesn't mean it's the same experience. 480 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: So it's not saying that that anyone going into meditation 481 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: should you know, should be seeing crazy amazing things in 482 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: their mind, not to say that there's not that some 483 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: of that isn't going on, But identical brain scans don't 484 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: mean the exact same experience for the individual. Yeah, I mean, 485 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: what it's pointing to you again is that there's just 486 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: quieting in this chatter area. Dr Judson Brewer, medical director 487 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: at the Yale Therapeutic Neuroscience Clinic, and his colleagues asked 488 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: ten experienced meditators in thirteen people with no meditation experience 489 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: to practice three basic meditation techniques concentration, loving, kindness, and 490 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: choiceless awareness. And the team then used FMR I to 491 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: observe the participant's brain activity when they were practicing the techniques, 492 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: and then we are when they were instructed not to 493 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: think of anything in particular. So the experienced meditators had 494 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: this decreased activity in the default mode network. Moreover, they 495 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: found out that this region of their brain was much 496 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: quieter than in their inexperienced counterparts. So we've talked about 497 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: this before. The the idea that you can actually change 498 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: your brain to a certain extent through meditation again long 499 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: term changes, and you'll see this again and again in 500 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: studies with meditators, is that there's just this ability to 501 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: concentrate better, to quiet the chattering mind and not wander 502 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 1: as much. And I wanted to point this up because again, 503 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: the mind is going to wander. Half of our day 504 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: spent doing this. But there are some studies that point 505 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: to this idea that if you can be conscious of 506 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 1: your own mind wandering, you can actually be a more 507 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: creative individual. You can harness your thoughts a lot better. 508 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: So again pointing to this idea of meditation as a 509 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: way not only to quiet the monkey mind, but also 510 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: to access some really novel ways of thinking. Yeah, I 511 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: mean that's the you listen to various gurus on this matter, 512 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: and then that's always like, the first step is being 513 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: able to identify the monkey mind, the egoic mind, the 514 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: devil on your shoulder, whatever however you choose to to 515 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: see conceived that the deep all mode network, if you 516 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: can identify it when it's happening, I mean, that's that's 517 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: the first big battle that you can actually stop and say, like, 518 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: what am I doing? What what are my thoughts doing 519 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: right now? Why am I relaying this stupid idea or 520 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: this silly fear or even this very real fear. Why 521 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: am I occupying my mind with it at this moment? 522 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: And what else could I potentially be using it for? 523 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: Right or if you're if you realize that your brain 524 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: is working stay on a problem and turning things over 525 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: and over in your mind, but you know that your 526 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: mind is wandering and it's dealing with this. Then you 527 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: can kind of have a breakthrough if you have the 528 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: realization that your mind is doing this, and then instead 529 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 1: of sort of going into the feedback loop of negativity 530 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: that our brains can kind of do with certain stories 531 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: that we tell ourselves, you catch yourself like, oh, this 532 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: is a problem my brain is working on, and you know, 533 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: maybe there's a solution here. Yeah, because sometimes sometimes you 534 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: just need to turn the dryer off and take the 535 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: clothes out before the cycle finishes, you know, slaying them 536 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: up before they get rankled. On the note of meditation 537 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: and hallucinations and psychedelic experiences, I will say that in shavasa, 538 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: the period at the end of yoga where one after 539 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: one has been their yoga exercises for you know, an hour, 540 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: hour and a half, whatever the length may be, and 541 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: in this state, you're getting out of your mind, You're 542 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: getting engaged in your body. You're shutting down the default 543 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: mode network just by putting yourself through a lot of 544 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: physical poses and engaging the physical body rather than the mind. 545 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: At the end of that, you go into this this 546 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: state where you you either said or you lay back 547 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: or maybe legs up the wall, and you go into 548 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: this this meditative state and and on. On a personal note, 549 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: I regularly see some really crazy stuff during that period, 550 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: you know, colors, explosions, clouds, smoke, that kind of thing. Occasionally. Um, 551 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: you know, I see people. I don't interact with them 552 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: or anything that that would be a different situation. But um, 553 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: but but I do have these uh these in a 554 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: sense psychedelic experiences during Shavasa, and a lot of people 555 00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,239 Speaker 1: do get this well. And so that's sort of that's 556 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: sort of a perfect way to segue into what we 557 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: will talk about in the second podcast, which is this 558 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: idea of whether or not hallucinations are natural to humans, 559 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: to all creatures. So there you have it. That's part 560 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: one of The Scientist and the Shaman. Make sure you 561 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: tune in Thursday for the second episode. And if you're 562 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: listening to this on down the line, well it's probably 563 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: there for you to just move on to right away 564 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: without any pause, without any stop. Um. As always, you 565 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: can find us at stuff double your mind dot com. 566 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: That is the mothership. That is the home page. That 567 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: is where you will find all of our content, our videos, 568 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: our blog post links to anywhere on the internet we 569 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: might be doing some sort of business, you will find 570 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: it there. And we'd certainly love to hear back from 571 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: you about this particular topic about the psychedelics, about their 572 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: potential for use in intreating various elements, and in their 573 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: ability to help us understand the human mind, and also 574 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: just the rich historical and cultural significance of these substances, 575 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: and how are you going to get in touch with us? Well? 576 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: You can interact with us on our various social media accounts, 577 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: or you can send us an email at below the 578 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: Mind at how stuff works dot com. For more on 579 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works 580 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: dot com.