1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How can a little girl, 2 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: a fifth grader die at home of a lice infestation. 3 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: I didn't know you could die of lice? And where 4 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: were her parents? What happened to this beautiful twelve year 5 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: old girl? And I can tell you this much, somebody's 6 00:00:42,320 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: going to jail. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. It's not 7 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: a topic that's let's just say, it doesn't taste good 8 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: going down. It's not something you want to talk about 9 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: over the fence with your neighbor or at a dinner party. 10 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: But this is the reality, this is happening right under 11 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: our noses. That when you see the picture of this 12 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: little girl, Caitlyn, it's gonna break your heart. But I 13 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: want justice. I can't bring Caitlin back, but I can 14 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: find the truth and we can get justice for Caitlin. 15 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. The Creamers say they first 16 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: met Katie Hordon and Joey Yosbiac in March of two 17 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: thousand and eight when they discussed adopting baby Caitlyn. We 18 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: absolutely everything ready carcat baby day furniture. Everything was pink 19 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: and brown. I'm outfitcher Binger Homi and diaperb absolutely everything. 20 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: The Creamers say Katie and Joey told them they wouldn't 21 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: be able to take care of the baby themselves. He 22 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: worked a part time job. At that point, he wasn't 23 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: working at all. They just felt like they couldn't provide 24 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: for it. After months of getting ready, the day had 25 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: finally arrived. The Creamers were in the hospital on June 26 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: ninth when Caitlin was born. I named her. I was 27 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: in the delivery room, we held her. I have probably 28 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: a hundred pictures of her first few hours. She was beautiful, beautiful, 29 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: dark eyes, beautiful dark eyes. You know, it just breaks 30 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: my heart so much to hear what I just heard. 31 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: This little girl was fifteen minutes away from having loving parents, 32 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: loving adoptive parents, but everything went sideways. Did you hear that? 33 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: They took about one hundred pictures of her and the 34 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: first twenty minutes of her life their baby. They even 35 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: got a little pink outfit to bring her home from 36 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: the hospital for her to wear a special coming home outfit. 37 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking back on bringing my twin home. She 38 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: was this close to having a real family, a mother 39 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: and a father that took care of her. That close 40 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: and everything went to crap. Listen, the Creamers learned they 41 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't be taking Caitlyn home. I went to the hospital. 42 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: We were supposed to go home that day. I had 43 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: the car seat, I had the diaper bag, I had 44 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: her outfit, I had everything there. When I walked into 45 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: her room, she was crying, but Shelle says Horton told 46 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: her she felt obligated to keep her daughter in. She 47 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: looked to me that day and said, this baby's supposed 48 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: to be yours. This baby supposed to be yours. I 49 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: don't want this baby, but I feel like I have to. 50 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: The couple say they were devastated for months. It was 51 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: almost like a funeral around here for three or four days. 52 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: We never dreamed they changed their minds. They were adamant 53 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: that this baby's yours, and the worst part for us 54 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: was we really didn't know what she was going to 55 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: be going into. The Creamers say they didn't hear of 56 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: Caitlin or Horton since until this week, when Michelle found 57 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: the story. We ran Friday explaining documents were received on 58 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: the family's history with d facts. I was probably two 59 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: lines into it and I went that was my baby, 60 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: and of course crowd all over again. It was it 61 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: was it was so hard to watch knowing that we 62 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: were within six seven hours of her life being completely 63 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: different than that. It's just so much to take in. 64 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: And now we know what happened to this beautiful little 65 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: baby with the big dark eyes. I'm looking at her 66 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: photo right now and I can just imagine how beautiful 67 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: a baby that she was. Let me introduce to you 68 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: an all star pale and I really mean that. And 69 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: we need to hear from everyone, every single one of 70 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: these experts to make sense of what happened to little Caitlin. 71 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: With me Kathleen Murphy out of North Carolina. She is 72 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: a family law expert. Let me tell you something. Family 73 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: law is everything but family like it's like putting your 74 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: hand in between two fighting rottweilers. When you go into 75 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: family courts, you gotta be a pro, and she is. 76 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: You can find her at NC Domestic Law dot com. 77 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: Karen Stark. We're now New York psychologists joining us from 78 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,559 Speaker 1: Manhattan today. She's at Karen with a CE Karen Stark 79 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: dot com. Stephen Lampley, detective author of twelve and Murdered, 80 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: coming out next month on Amazon. You can find him 81 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: at Stephen Lampley dot com. Ashley Kelly, poor thing, she's 82 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: in for it. She's a former defacts worker, a licensed 83 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: clinical social worker, and her expertise is child abuse. Doctor 84 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: Chris Berry with me, famous former chief medical Examiner for 85 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: the State of Georgia. Let me tell you. I spent 86 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: many many hours with doctor Chris Sperry preparing for trial. 87 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: And when he would walk into a courtroom, open those doors, 88 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: walk into that white medical jacket, it's like everything stopped 89 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: and walk up, take the stand, and the case would 90 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: be on. I usually either put him up as the 91 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: first witness or the last witness to either start with 92 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: a bang or finish with a bang. But first, a 93 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Levi Paige Levi, when 94 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: I hear these adoptive parents about all the preparations they 95 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: had made to bring baby Caitlin home and now I know, 96 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: just a few short years later she dies of headlice? 97 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: How does that even happen? But that's a question for 98 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: the medical examiner for you, Levi page what went wrong 99 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: with the adoption? Well, Nancy. One went wrong with the 100 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: adoption was at the very last minute, her parents decided 101 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: that they wanted to keep her her bio correct. Oh, 102 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, why is under the law? Can you build 103 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: the adopted parents up like that just to yank the 104 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: rug out from under them at the last minute, Nancy, 105 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: that actually happened to me. What My youngest child was 106 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: adopted at birth, and the birth mother attempted to change 107 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: her mind at the last hour, and we were able 108 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: to engage in discussions and negotiations such that she realized 109 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: that she was not able to really do this, and 110 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: so we were fortunate. But yes, they can. You just 111 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: gave me chills all the way down my left arm, 112 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: Kathe Murphy. Boy, that would really give you chills. You 113 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: have four children, right? I do? Okay? And so is 114 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: this your your youngest? This is my youngest and my 115 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: only adopted child. You lucky duck. I always wanted four children, 116 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: but I waited so late in life. I'm lucky I 117 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: got the two that I got. Boy, was I blasted? 118 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: I just how right there at the last moment she 119 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: changes her mind. And now years later, these adoptive parents 120 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: have the heartbreak of reading their baby. Guys, who hasn't 121 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: had headlights? I mean, really, wait a minute, right a minute. 122 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: I haven't had head lice, and neither is anybody in 123 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: my family. Okay, you guys had head lice. Okay, John 124 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: Terenzio oxygen producers in here saying you have not had headlines. Okay, 125 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: but you're okay. I don't know a nice way to 126 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: say this, but you're partially bald right right there. Okay, 127 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: So how likely is it you're gonna get head lies? 128 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: Bratt head lice? So not everybody has had head lies, 129 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, So let's just be people. Just yeah, I 130 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: guess we are. But I've never heard of anything like this, 131 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 1: and it had to be extremely painful. And where I'm 132 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: going with this is if she died, this little girl 133 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: died of headlice, that means neglect. Neglect in this gigantic 134 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: proportion means that were these parents abusive crime stories With 135 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, we're talking about a gorgeous little girl. She 136 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: is so beautiful, not that looks matter because they don't. 137 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: And she's got this beautiful head of gorgeous, dark brown hair. 138 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: And I'm just imagining what this little girl went through 139 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: every single day. A few moments ago, you were listening 140 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: to our friend Ashlan Webb at Shela thirteen WMAZ. Now 141 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. When Caitlin Yosviak was born, 142 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: her parents had already had two children removed from the 143 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: home to be raised by relatives, so Katie Horton and 144 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: Joey Yosevic arranged for a couple, the Creamers, to adopt Kaitlin. 145 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: After Caitlin was born, Horton and Yosevic had a change 146 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: of heart and canceled the adoption. The Georgie's Department of 147 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: Family and Children's Services had been involved with the family 148 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: when the boys were removed from the home, and now 149 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: they were called to make sure the family could care 150 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: for baby Kaitlin, and Kaylin went home with her mom 151 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: and dad. That was the last contact Defacts had with 152 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: the family until twenty eighteen. Our friend Dave Mack at 153 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: crime online dot Com. That's what I don't get to 154 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: Ashley Kelly. She is now a licensed clinical social worker. 155 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: Her expertise is child abuse and boys. She cut her 156 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: teeth and a tough environment at DEFACTS Department of Family 157 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: Children Services. Ashley Kelly, Now this is not about you, Okay. 158 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: I know you're not with DEFACTS anymore, but why in 159 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: the h E double l when you've already had two 160 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: little boys removed from the home for abuse and neglect. 161 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: Would you send an innocent baby girl into that situation 162 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: when the parents wanted to adopt her out anyway in 163 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: the last minute have a change of heart. Why in 164 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: the world would they get to keep a little baby. 165 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: That's a great question, and I know I can remember 166 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: several times that I had a tough time needing to 167 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: do that as well. What do you mean needed to 168 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: do that? Unfortunately, when you're just a keep manager, you 169 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: don't make any decisions by yourself, so you have to 170 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: stop it up and then do whatever is told to 171 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: you to do. And that's an arizona. I don't know 172 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: what it is. And and they said that to the 173 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: guard keepers at Auschwitz too, it's your job. So I 174 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: don't understand. Well, how in the world could defect send 175 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: a little baby like this and in a sent infant 176 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: girl into a home where the agency had already removed 177 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: two boys for neglect and abuse. I agree, and the 178 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: question is rue you have to do a home visit. 179 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: So I'm wondering, and just a couple of years ago, 180 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: how much different it could have been. I doubt it. Okay, 181 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: not two years past until DEFACTS is called to the home. 182 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend at Child thirteen, wmaz 183 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: Ashland Webb dfax By will show a call in twenty 184 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: eighteen about the home being quote bug infested, excessive cats 185 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: and hazardous conditions. Our folks came in, they saw that 186 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: the house was really a wreck. Dfacts agreed the house 187 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 1: was unsanitaria. They responded very quickly to our request that 188 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: they made this house a fit place to live. That 189 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: indicated to us that they were in fact capable of 190 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: caring for Caitlin. He says there wasn't enough is to 191 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: Bulkaitlin out of the home in two thousand and eight 192 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: or twenty eighteen. The standard required to remove a child 193 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,359 Speaker 1: from home is that the child is an imminent dangers 194 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: and there's a child's safety. Is it really a threat 195 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: that can be emotional safety as well as physical safety. 196 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: But we also do get involved with cases that maybe 197 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: are a little less than that, but that where there's 198 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: a chronic issue where we need the assistance of the 199 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: courts in making sure the family does what they need 200 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: to do to remedy the situation. You're hearing our friend 201 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: Ashland Web at thirteen WMAZ and you're also hearing the 202 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: voice of Tom Rawlings, Georgia Defects Director. Well, I don't 203 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: know if he still has his job after this, so 204 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: let me understand something to you. Levi Page Crime online 205 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, so Defacts removes two boys from 206 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: the home for a beast and neglect. Then mom gets 207 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: pregnant again. She has a little baby. She renigues on 208 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: the adoption deal from her hospital bed, says she doesn't 209 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: want the baby, but feel like she has to keep it. 210 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: Defects lets her keep the baby, and within a couple 211 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: of years, Defects is back at the home with bug infestation. 212 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: There were rats there as well, excessive Do I understand 213 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: that correctly? And they leave the girl there? Yes, Nancy, 214 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: They actually took her brothers and placed her brothers with 215 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: their grandmother, but they placed Caitlin with an aunt and 216 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: she was only there for six days and then for 217 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: some reason this is very hard to explain on their 218 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: part Shop Protective Services, they placed Caitlin back into the home, 219 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: but they did not place her brothers back into the home. 220 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: So the big question is if the home was not 221 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: safe enough for her brothers? Why was it safe enough 222 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: for her? Think about this and I need to go 223 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: to our doctor, doctor Chris Sperry. On this repeated hundreds 224 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:20,479 Speaker 1: of life bites lowered her blood iron levels, causing anemia 225 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: and triggering a heart attack on this little girl, she's twelve. 226 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: She just turned twelve, a heart attack because of a 227 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: lice infestation. Doctor Chris Sperry. I've got so many questions 228 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: for you. Number one, why is it a danger to 229 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: children to have a home overrun with cats? So sorry? 230 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: What kind of diseases? Now? Why is it a danger 231 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: to have children in a home that's overrun with cats? Oh? Well, filth. 232 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: You know, cats or animals they carry parasites. Toxoplasmosis is 233 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: one of them that actually will get into people's brains. Um, 234 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's a bad disease to have 235 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: you Will you say that again? Talk boxoplasmosis? Is that 236 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: what's been connected to paranoid schizophrenia. Yes, yeah, it's been 237 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: connected to that. And uh, you know it's in you know, 238 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: you find it basically at all cats. And if there's 239 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot of cats, then you just have more parasites. 240 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: And cats are dirty, and they have litter boxes, and 241 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: flies come and lay eggs in the litter boxes, and 242 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, you have to be really worked very hard 243 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: to keep uh you know, a house or an apartment 244 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: with cats in it clean. It's it's just it's a 245 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: hard thing to do and requires causes and attention. Uh 246 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: does this apply to guinea pigs? This is a personal question. 247 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: Apply to guinea pigs? Well, not not so much unless 248 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: they're dirty, you unless you don't. Of course, they dirty, 249 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: They poop where they eat, they're filthy, they're disgusting, they're 250 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: they're more pig than guinea. Yeah. Well, any animal if 251 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: it's if it's not kept clean and its surroundings are 252 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: not clean, and it poops and peas in the house, 253 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: that's just a setup for all kinds of bacteria. Let 254 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: me ask you another question, doctor Sperry. This says the 255 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: home was um It says the home was filthy and disrepair, 256 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: with vermin covering the mattress, soft animals, and other furniture 257 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: in Caitlin's room. What does that mean specifically? By vermin? 258 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: Vermin means bugs, bugs of all sorts of you know 259 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: that feast on uh, feces on waste, you know, human waste. 260 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: They feast on the people, They bite them and get 261 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: their nourishment by biting and sucking some blood. So you know, 262 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: burman is a kind of a broad term, but it 263 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: really means all sorts of bugs. And then there's bugs 264 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: other types of bugs that eats certain bugs. So you know, 265 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: you have a whole ecosystem almost going on, but at 266 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: the heart of it is the human beings. The person 267 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: who is living in that room, and everything else just 268 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: comes to either bite her or to eat the bugs 269 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: that are biting her, and it becomes just a you know, 270 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: a giant, steaky mess crawling all over the time stories 271 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about just a beautiful 272 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: twelve year old little girl. I would say she would 273 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: have been in about the sixth grade in middle school. 274 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: Her name is Caitlin Yazaviak, and once you look at 275 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: her picture, you'll never forget her. You just heard doctor 276 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: Chris Sperry, who was the medical examiner for the State 277 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: of Georgia, describing what vermin, bugs, life s, infestation and 278 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: others can do to a child. You've also learned how 279 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: de Facts repeatedly sent this infant newborn baby back into 280 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: the home as she would get older and made her 281 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: live there. Take a listen to our friends at WMAZ. 282 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: Caitlyn's maternal grandparents in a statement to us Anna Horton, 283 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 1: the grandmother says she's been taking care of Caitlyn's two 284 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: older others since Joey and Katie lost custody of them 285 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: before Caitlin was born. Now here's their statement. They say, 286 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: we are gutted. We are in the dark, and we 287 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: don't understand. It's a deep, dark, black void. There is 288 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: nothing we can say. Joey should have been arrested immediately. 289 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: He deserved it. I've been raising Katie and Joey's two 290 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: sons since they were in diapers and taken away from 291 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: taking away from them. Had the system done their job 292 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: and rescue Kaitlyn, I would have raised her two In 293 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: quote to Karen Start and joining me New York psychologist Karen, 294 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: how can the people at Defects. I think they should 295 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: a be fired and b be criminally prosecuted over the 296 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: death of Caitlin Yah Siak And I'll tell you why 297 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 1: they stood by and watched it happen. Karen Start, you know, 298 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: if you stand you know my theory. If you stand 299 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: by and you let injustice go on and you don't 300 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: even try to do anything about it, you're complicit. You're 301 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: part of it. You're part of the conspiracy of what 302 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: happened to this little girl. What a horrible, horrible death 303 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: that she endured, being bitten hundreds, probably thousands of times 304 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 1: by lice until she dies of a heart attack. She's twelve. 305 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: And Karen, do you hear this. That was the aunt, 306 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: Anna Horton speaking, excuse me, the grandmother. Then you have 307 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: an aunt all of them saying we saw what was happening. 308 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: They should have been arrested long before Caitlin died, but 309 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: nobody did anything. Karen, Why nobody did anything? And how 310 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: many times do we see that happening, Nancy, Through the 311 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: years we hear about children who are neglected. I think 312 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: that not enough people. It's horrific, just terrific, And yet 313 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me at all. It just the idea 314 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: that they understood to take the brothers out of there 315 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: and not let them back again. And this little girl 316 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: was even checked, they were even called to the home, 317 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: and yet she was allowed to stay there. And it 318 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: makes you feel powerless because there need to be more 319 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: people on these cases checking out even understanding the fact 320 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: that two of the children are not there, so how 321 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: could this third be allowed to be there? It's outrageous 322 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: to Stephen Lampley, detective, author of twelve and Murdered, coming 323 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: out November twenty nine on Amazon at Stephen Lampley dot com. Stephen, 324 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: what kind of an investigation should have been done? Because 325 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: let me hear this. When the agents got to the 326 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: home and find Caitlin's body, the inside of the home 327 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: was filthy and disrepair, vermin recovering her mattress, stuffed animals, 328 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: the furniture in her room. The mother, Mary Catherine Wharton, 329 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: says her daughter had not had a shower or bath 330 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: in a week and a half. A week and a half, 331 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: I mean, didn't teachers, didn't neighbors, relatives notice what was 332 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: happening to this girl, Nancy. The neighbors did. As my 333 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: understanding that several of the neighbors said that they didn't 334 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: see the little girl out playing in the yard, and 335 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: she would sometimes go to their houses and then visit 336 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: and have snacks, and then the neighbors didn't notice that 337 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 1: she was not doing her normal routine. She was not 338 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: getting out and playing in the yard, she was not 339 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: riding her bicycle, she was not coming to their houses, 340 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: you know. And twenty one years of law enforcement, Nancy, 341 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: I hadn't been in these homes and some of these situations. 342 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: Police officers are taught to be stoic, unemotional, but there 343 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: are times that I had to bite the inside of 344 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: my cheeks to keep from crying. When you have a 345 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: little child. When you get a call to a house 346 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: and you have a child eight nineteen eleven, twelve years old, 347 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: and you walk in and they run to you and 348 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: they hug you, asking for help. There are some, indeed, 349 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: some really horrible situations out there that some are investigated properly, some, unfortunately, Nancy, 350 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: are not. You know, to Ashley Kelly, now a very 351 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: successful licensed clinical social work or expertise of course children, 352 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: but former de Facts Department Family Children's Services employee, what 353 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: can a single employee do when you see these horrible 354 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: conditions and the child living there. The cap that there 355 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: are always hired, Nancy, because if we call them dirty 356 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: home cases, and sometimes you can go in and say 357 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: the home needs to be cleaned up in a certain 358 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: amount of days or we're going to interview. But this 359 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: would have been a case at the very least for 360 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: an in home intervention, so people going in regularly for 361 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: up to ninety to one hundred and twenty days at 362 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: least in Arizona, to make sure that the family has 363 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: the skills needed and the resources needed to make sure 364 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: that that would be remedied. I'm not sure what, if 365 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: anything defects did, but what would have been sp standard 366 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 1: operating procedure? Actually, what should they have done? Put in 367 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 1: a referral at least for community resources or like I 368 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: said that that third party that would be the in 369 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: home intervention, so that would be a counselor a family 370 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: support specialist, and from there, if they found that it continued, 371 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: they can go to a higher level of intervention. You know, 372 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the home on the outside, and it's 373 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: got a nice yard. The home looks fine. They're shrubbery 374 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: all around, although it's kind of growing up toward the 375 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: roof of the house. But her her bedroom was infested 376 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: with rats and vermin. Back to doctor Chris Sperry, what 377 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: kind of pain would this child have endured? Her room 378 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: is infested with rats and her mattress is covered in bugs. 379 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: The furniture, the stuffed animals are infested. She had been 380 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: bitten thousands of times, to the point where she had 381 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: a heart attack. What suffering did she go through is 382 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: defects did by and twiddle their thumbs. It would be 383 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: horrible suffering because this is not something you know, to 384 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: get to the state that she was in. It isn't 385 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: a day, a week, This is on the order of months. 386 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: And you mentioned the rats. You know, we talked about 387 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: vermin earlier with bugs and bugs eating bugs. Well the 388 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: rats come in and they start eating on the insects too. 389 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: They're they're looking for a good food source, and all 390 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: the while the child is being bitten. Now, the itchiness 391 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: of the insects of the life especially would be insane, 392 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: would be overpowering. I mean really to the point where, 393 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: uh people they actually they've managed to ignore it because 394 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: they get so sick and so weakened that the itch 395 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: kind of fades into the background. But she would become 396 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: weak and confused, and with losing as much blood as 397 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: would would happen with you know, guiding her and sucking 398 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: the blood, she is then a setup for infections. You know, 399 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: her immune system is weakened. Um, she's nutritionally in terrible shape. 400 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: She know, she's just just deteriorating in front of in 401 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: front of everyone's eyes. Really uh, she could she would 402 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: not be normal if someone were to know before she died, 403 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: if someone were to see her, she would be weak 404 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: and lethargic, not talking, and the stink would be overpowering 405 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: as well. So here she is inside of a cesspit, basically, 406 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: with tens of thousands of bugs biting her, sucking her blood. 407 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: She gradually becomes weaker and weaker and weaker, and then 408 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: you know it's she lost. In this case, she lost 409 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: so much blood that her blood was borless, like water, 410 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 1: and that's why she had a heart attack because there 411 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: wasn't enough red cells, enough cells to carry oxygen. Because 412 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: her blood was so thin, it would it would be 413 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: horrible time stories with Nancy Grace. This little girl did 414 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: not have to die. Her name Caitlin Yasvak. She deserved 415 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: and could so easily have had a wonderful life. But 416 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: at the beginning, her deadbeat parents, who've already lost two 417 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: boys to de facts for neglecting abuse, reverse their decision 418 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: to adopt her out to a loving family and her 419 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: life was pure hell until the day she died, a 420 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: painful death. Neglected, mistreated, under fed. Take a listen to 421 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: Megan Bragg NBC two. We're also learning the three other 422 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: children in the home were only allowed to eat raw 423 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables, and two of them were severely underweight. 424 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: Sheila and Ryan did admit to police they thought something 425 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: was wrong with her baby weeks before, but didn't call 426 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: for help and if nine page report just obtained by 427 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: NBC two, Sheila tells police the baby he became sick 428 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: six months ago and was throwing up and lost weight 429 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: about a week before the baby died. Sheila says they're 430 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: eighteen month old, stopped eating and would only breastfeed occasionally. 431 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: The medical examiner says the baby was extremely malnourished, dehydrated, 432 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: and feet were swollen. Sheila says the baby has never 433 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: been to the doctor and was born inside their home. 434 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: Cape Coral police also say two other children were also 435 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: extremely underweight and one of their children's teeth were rotting. 436 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: Sheila told police the family would sleep in the living 437 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: room with one child on a hammock and another on 438 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: a dogbed. That is a story of another child allowed 439 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: to wither away in front of the eyes of their parents, 440 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: Ryan Patrick O'Leary and Sheila O'Leary, and they stood by 441 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: while their children's teeth rotted out. I mean to you, 442 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: doctor Chrisperry, how long would that take? Oh, that would 443 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: take really months, because it takes a long time for 444 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: teeth like this to start decaying and then rotting. It's constant. 445 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: Poor diet, you know, lots of just sugary drinks, just 446 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: you know, to give the child something, uh, you know, soda, 447 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: Coca cola, things like that that would just be really 448 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: sugar flavored flavored juices. And that's about it. But you 449 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: know what impresses me the most is that the stink 450 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: would be unbearable. Wait a minute, now, you're talking about 451 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: our first case of Caitlin Yasvak. I was comparing the 452 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: other case where the parents stood by and watch the 453 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: child slowly digress. But as a matter of fact, let's 454 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: go back to Caitlin, because the parents did the same thing. 455 00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: It's the point that I'm making. Take a listen to 456 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: Cheryl Preheim WXIA eleven Alive in August, Katie Horton and 457 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: Joey Yazviiak were both charged with murder and child cruelty 458 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: in the twelve year old's death. A GBI investigator testified 459 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: Monday that Caitlin's death likely resulted from a severe lice infestation. 460 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: Special Agent Ryan Hilton testified that Caitlin's primary cause of 461 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: death was cardiac arrest, the secondary cause was anemia. He 462 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: said the girl's lice infestation was the worst he'd ever 463 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: seen and doctors had ever seen, and it may have 464 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,479 Speaker 1: lasted for years. Hilton said repeated bites lowered her blood 465 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: iron levels, which likely caused that anemia and may have 466 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: triggered the heart attack. After hearing the evidence, Judge Brenda 467 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: Trammell ruled there was enough evidence to charge both parents. 468 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: Prosecutor's plan to ask a Wilkinson County grand jury to 469 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: indict the couple. The case against these two sorry parents 470 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: making its way through the justice system. We understand that 471 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: there have been murder charges filed, but sadly, to Kathleen Murphy, 472 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: North Carolina family law attorney, what I've seen over all 473 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: the years that I prosecuted and covered cases when the child, 474 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: the victim is a child for some reason, is treated 475 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: more leniently. The parents could get voluntary manslaw and get 476 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: a sentence of seven years and be out in three 477 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: What do you think unless we stay on the case 478 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: and keep covering it, that's what's going to happen. Jump in. 479 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: It is disgusting because I went through and read what 480 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: Caitlin's attorneys were saying, and they said there was absolutely 481 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: no neglect because they had critics in the home to 482 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: treat the life. And I almost literally sward my computer 483 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: across the room. The house is disgusting. There is no 484 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: excuse to treat a child like that, and they have 485 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: been bound over. Caitlin's parents have been bound over for 486 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: felony murder to trial. And it to me is I 487 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: couldn't been a criminal defense attorney. I don't know how 488 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: they do it. You know. A neighbor, Solomon London, says 489 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: he was so worried about Kaitlin the first time you 490 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: ever met her because she was playing with his three 491 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: children and Kaylyn stop and said, oh no, no, no, no, no, 492 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: don't come any closer. My mom will beat me. I mean, 493 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: if that's not a tip off, Please tell all your listeners, 494 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: Please tell all your listeners. Reach out and contact Social Services. 495 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: If you have an inkling, especially during the time where 496 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: children are isolated, if you have an inkling that something's 497 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: going wrong, please call protect our children. You know, I'm 498 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: just thinking about what you're saying to Stephen Lampley. How 499 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 1: often the neighbors, teachers, the parents, the children's friends know 500 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: something is wrong but don't do anything about it, Nancy. 501 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: Unfortunately that happens more often than it should. Of course, 502 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: there are times when people you know, and they brush 503 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 1: it off. Sometimes well, maybe their own vacation or maybe 504 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: the child's sick, and they trying to rationalize some of this. 505 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: There's nothing at all wrong. If you suspect something, to 506 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: let somebody know. It's not a bad omen. You're not 507 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: going to reach seven years of bad luck. Let somebody 508 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: know if you suspect something. Murder charges against the parents 509 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: of Wilkinson County twelve year old Caitlin heading to a 510 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: grand jury after a probable cause hearing. We understand there 511 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: are going to be felony murder charges. Now, Kathleen, of 512 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: course we know what that means. That means that and 513 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: it's a very wise moved by the state instead of 514 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: showing they intend inly murdered, Caitlin. The state is going 515 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: to show another felony was in progress and a death occurred. 516 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: It would be as if you and I went into 517 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: rob a bank and then suddenly I got a wild 518 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 1: hair and shot the teller dead. You're on the hook 519 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: for murder because we were in the commission of an 520 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: armed robbery and a death occurred. It could have been 521 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: as we drove away and we ran over a pedestrian. 522 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: We were in a felony bank robbery and a death occurred, 523 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: would still be charged with felony murder. It's very simply 524 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: in the commission of a felony, a death occurs, And 525 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: I think that's the way to go with these two parents, 526 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: because there's clear a child felony child abuse and felony 527 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: child neglect and a death occurred. Kathleen spot On, spot On, 528 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: well done to the prosecutors. The parents have also said 529 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: we fed her, we closed her, we bought her ridex, 530 00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: we didn't neglect her. The facts speak for themselves. What 531 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: would they have seen, doctor Chris Berry, What would the 532 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: parents have been seeing manifest right before their eyes? Well, 533 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: seeing tens of thousands of lice is inescapable being they'd 534 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: be moving in her hair. Her hair would be constantly 535 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 1: moving and just wriggling and twisting because of all these 536 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: bugs that are crawling all through the hair. You could 537 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: see it probably from ten feet away actually, And she 538 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: also would be very wasted away. She'd be very, very pale, listless, 539 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, no energy, She just you know, she would 540 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: look like an ill child. But the most bizarre thing 541 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: is that the parents, well anyone but the parents, seeing 542 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 1: her every day, would see all these tens of thousands 543 00:37:54,960 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: of lice wriggling and moving throughout her hair and its 544 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: capable And as a matter of fact, the state has 545 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: brought in an entomology abug expert to discuss the effects 546 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: of this life infestation. After the death, we wait as 547 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: these two make their way through the justice system. And 548 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: this has got to be felony murder or nothing. I'm 549 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:27,720 Speaker 1: begging the bib County prosecutors, do not reduce this case down, 550 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: don't plead it out. Nancy Grace crime story signing off, 551 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,