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Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel one.

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Speaker 1: Thirty two residents living in this small Texas town stunt

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Speaker 1: trying to make sense of what's described as a Sunday

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Speaker 1: service massacre. Who was dressed in all black. The suspect

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Speaker 1: cross the street to the church, to his vehicle and

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Speaker 1: began firing at the church. It was rapid fire. Year

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Speaker 1: old Devon Patrick Kelly open fire inside Sutherland Springs First

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Speaker 1: Baptist Church. A local resident grabbed his raffle and engaged

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Speaker 1: that suspect. He was killed after fleeing the scene. I

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Speaker 1: never thought it would happen here. I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: something that takes place in a big city. Doesn't make

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Speaker 1: any sense. A devastating blow in this close knit community. Really,

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Speaker 1: from what's being called the country's deadliest shooting inside a

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Speaker 1: house of worship, all of America is praying to God

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Speaker 1: to help the wounded and the families of the victims.

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Speaker 1: We will never ever leave their side ever. Twenty six

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Speaker 1: dead here on American soil and in a house of

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Speaker 1: worship at eleven a m on a Sunday morning. It's

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Speaker 1: known around the world that that is when US churches

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Speaker 1: are open for worship and almost every Christian denomination. I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us, and now we are learning so much about

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Speaker 1: the shooter. How did children and eight months pregnant mom

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Speaker 1: of four? How did they die? Why did this happen?

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Speaker 1: Joining me investigative reporter Art Harris, Emmy Award winning reporter

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, crime scene expert in director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Institute, doctor Chloe Carmichael, psychologist out of New York,

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Speaker 1: creator of Anxiety tools dot com. And private investigator Bobby

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Speaker 1: Brown based in the same town where the shoot lived,

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Speaker 1: and he has been digging deep into the shooter's life

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Speaker 1: to find out why and how. First of all, straight

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Speaker 1: to Bobby Brown, Bobby, what have we learned about this

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Speaker 1: shooter that goes into this beautiful little house of worship

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Speaker 1: in a small Texas town, walks toward the altar right

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Speaker 1: down the center aisle, then turns around faces the congregation,

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Speaker 1: looks them in the faces as he guns them down, women, children,

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Speaker 1: men alike. Straight out to Bobby Brown. Private investigator, Bobby,

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Speaker 1: what have you learned about the shooters past? For instance

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Speaker 1: a police report you found I have UH the report

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Speaker 1: from UH an incident that actually occurred on August thirteenth

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and fourteen, and it was a cruelty

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Speaker 1: to animals complaint UM. The one important thing is that

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Speaker 1: when the the police, the Fountain Police, got to UH

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Speaker 1: the mobile home motor home that UH Patrick Devon Patrick

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Speaker 1: Kelly was living in UH, he refused to come out

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Speaker 1: for almost an hour, and then when he did come out,

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Speaker 1: he was confronted about how he had brutally assaulted his

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Speaker 1: dog as was witnessed by a number of people. Let

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Speaker 1: me just kind of chase Bobby. What did he do

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Speaker 1: to the dog? He literally she was strangling the dog

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Speaker 1: and was on top of the dog and punching him

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Speaker 1: several times in the head, and the dog was whining

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Speaker 1: and was just cowling. And then he drugged the dog

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Speaker 1: back to his motor home. When he was confronted by

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Speaker 1: law enforcement, he passed it off by saying that he

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Speaker 1: was teaching the dog not to run away again. My dog. Okay,

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Speaker 1: wait wait, wait right there with me as private investigator

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Speaker 1: at the Colorado Springs, Bobby Brown, this is where the

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Speaker 1: shooter lived for some time. Bobby has been diging into

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Speaker 1: the Life of Devin Patrick Kelly before I go to

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum and aren't Harris Dr Chloe Carmichael's psychologists at

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Speaker 1: a New York creator of Anxiety tools dot com. Dr Chloe,

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Speaker 1: you know I've studied many, many and prosecuted serial killers

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Speaker 1: and spree killers, and aren't you're with me through many

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Speaker 1: of those investigations covering them, Chloe? When you show rage

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Speaker 1: or violence or just cruelty to animals, I mean when

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Speaker 1: Bobby Brown said that, my it chills down my arms

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Speaker 1: because that is a text book sign of someone that

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Speaker 1: will erupt into spree or serial killing in the future.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like a given. That's one of

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Speaker 1: the first things you look for is have they tortured animals?

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Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, Yes, Nancy, I agree, that's a that's just

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Speaker 1: a heartbreaking story. Um. And what's what's really awful about

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Speaker 1: it too, is it it doesn't sound as much like, um,

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Speaker 1: he's psychotic, you know. It's it doesn't sound as if,

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Speaker 1: you know, he thought the dog was out to get

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Speaker 1: him or something. Even by his own description, he was

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Speaker 1: using a really cruel form of torture in order to

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Speaker 1: control the dog and to try to you know, dominate

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Speaker 1: the dog to stop the dog, you know, from just

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Speaker 1: running away, which of course I'm sure the dog would

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Speaker 1: want to run away. Um, if this is how he

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Speaker 1: treats it, you know, to Cheryl McCullum, Cold Case Institute Director, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a classic sign of a serial

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Speaker 1: killer or spray killer. And I'm not just cooking that

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Speaker 1: up and my iron pot on the stove. Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is documented over and over and over again, Cheryl. Fancy,

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Speaker 1: it's right up there. You've got the cruel being animals.

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Speaker 1: You've got your domestic violence, you've got your falt targets

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Speaker 1: like children, you've got failure in the military. He is

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Speaker 1: right out of the playbook, There's no question about it.

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Speaker 1: But I think one thing that needs to be pointed

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Speaker 1: out here. Unlike a lot of potentials here old killers

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Speaker 1: that just grab animals from wherever, all of his targets

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Speaker 1: have been selected. None of them were at random. Every

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Speaker 1: one of them is somebody that he was connected to,

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Speaker 1: or an animal he was connected to that we know

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Speaker 1: so far, explained Cheryl McCullum. It was his dog, it

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Speaker 1: was his child, it was his wife, it was his

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Speaker 1: in law's church, anybody that does him wrong that he's

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Speaker 1: connected to, he will seek revente Well, Cheryl, I mean

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Speaker 1: this is just off the top of my head, so

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Speaker 1: there may be more. But animal abuse I have always

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Speaker 1: known is one of the first signs of a serial

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Speaker 1: or spree killer. And for instance, I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: even don't have to look at these up. You've got

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Speaker 1: David Berkowitt, son of Sam uh So, You've got Carol

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Speaker 1: Cole who killed almost utt people. Um, Jeffrey Dahmer had

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Speaker 1: animal cruelty in his background, the Boston strang angler, you know,

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Speaker 1: Albert Salvo. I mean, all of them started with cruelty

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Speaker 1: to animals. Mass Killers start by harming or torturing pets

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Speaker 1: and then they go to you know, like a troubled team.

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Speaker 1: He starts killing pets, are torturing them, and then the

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Speaker 1: next thing it's their wife, and the next thing it's

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Speaker 1: their baby. You know, it's not pulling a cat's tail

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Speaker 1: or trying to ride your dog around the front yard.

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Speaker 1: That that's not it. It's not that it's torturing them.

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Speaker 1: Just like Bobby Brown is telling us, do you I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can recall the case Luke Woodham, he went to

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Speaker 1: Pearl High School. Do you remember him? He stabbed his

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Speaker 1: mom to death and then he um opened when a

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Speaker 1: hail of bullets on classmates, then a hunting knife, killing

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Speaker 1: two little girls. Well we all we found out he

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Speaker 1: had tortured and killed his pet dog, Sparkle, and he

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Speaker 1: described his dog murder as his quote first kill. Um.

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Speaker 1: I remember about Kip Kinkel. He shot his parents to death,

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Speaker 1: then unleashed on Thurston High School. He had bragged forever

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Speaker 1: about how he tortured animals. And I told you Jeff Dahmer,

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Speaker 1: the Boston Stranger, the son of Sam. It goes on

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Speaker 1: and on and on. This is classic. Should call umn

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Speaker 1: It is so classic. But here's the difference in this person.

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Speaker 1: Dahmer carries around this dead squirrel that he just got

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Speaker 1: from the woods. This guy is connected to his own animal.

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Speaker 1: He's more of a revenge killer of people he knows

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Speaker 1: or is connected to. That's what's kind of unusual about him.

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Speaker 1: That that is that is unusual to Art Harris Emmy

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Speaker 1: Award winning investigative reporter Art Way in Nansie. The animal

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Speaker 1: cruelty is so in line also with domestic violence, and

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Speaker 1: in this case, before he slaughtered twenty six people in

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Speaker 1: that small church. He had to beat his wife and

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Speaker 1: child and been convicted in a court martial. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand twelve, when he was serving in the Air Force

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Speaker 1: in New Mexico, he got a bad conduct discharge, served

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Speaker 1: a year in the brig or confinement, and suddenly he's

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Speaker 1: out as a wife beater and abuser and he is

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Speaker 1: able to buy a gun. How did that happen? That

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Speaker 1: is the travesty here. The Air Force now admits it

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Speaker 1: failed to enter his domestic violence conviction into the civil system,

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Speaker 1: meaning it's not in the National Information Data Crime base

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Speaker 1: that the FBI uses. When you go into a gun

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Speaker 1: store and fill out a form that the gun seller

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Speaker 1: has to run through that system, and if you have

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Speaker 1: been adjudicated mentally ill or if you've been convicted of

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Speaker 1: a misdemeanor domestic violence or a felon or dishonorable discharge,

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Speaker 1: you are rejected. Well, he went into a store, he

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Speaker 1: was able to buy four guns in Colorado. He brought

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Speaker 1: to and in Texas in two thousand sixteen, where he

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Speaker 1: bought this Ruger, a R fifteen style assault weapon Nancy.

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Speaker 1: He filled out the background check, my sources say and

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Speaker 1: it's sailed right through because number one, he did not

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Speaker 1: have a dishonorable discharge but a bad conduct discharge, so

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Speaker 1: he could say that he was not discharged that way

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Speaker 1: from the military, but they never saw his background as

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Speaker 1: a wife beater. Uh. And he was able to buy

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Speaker 1: that gun. So here we are with a guy walking

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Speaker 1: around who has all these convictions as a felon, as

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Speaker 1: a bully. Uh, and he is just got a passport

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Speaker 1: to kill. Now. Cheryl McCullum, crime scene expert, I want

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Speaker 1: to follow up on what on what Art Harris is reporting.

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Speaker 1: You know how many times, Cheryl, have you walked by

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Speaker 1: my courtroom and I was prosecuting and just be slumped

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Speaker 1: over sitting there, not in front of the jury. Of

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Speaker 1: course I'd wait till they left, but I would be

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Speaker 1: thinking what it could have should have If a judge

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Speaker 1: had if the pardoner parole hadn't let this guy out

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Speaker 1: on parole, if he hadn't gotten a light sentence to

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Speaker 1: start with, if this victim had gone to police in

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Speaker 1: n blah blah blah, then this wouldn't have happened. This

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have happened. If if, if, if, if, would have

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Speaker 1: could have should you know what, I could say that

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Speaker 1: right now, Ryl again chills on my arms thinking of

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Speaker 1: all those cases when I would analyze it to just

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Speaker 1: bits until my head was about to blow up. How

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Speaker 1: this could have been stopped? Art correctly is pointing out

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Speaker 1: that the military did not enter his criminal problems in

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Speaker 1: the computer or in the database, and therefore he bought

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Speaker 1: a gun. Would have, could have should have. This guy

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Speaker 1: was a powder kig waiting to blow Ryl. He would

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Speaker 1: have done it no matter what. He would have done

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Speaker 1: it no matter what, and he would have done it

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Speaker 1: by any means necessary. There's been some reports that he

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Speaker 1: had explosives in the car Nancy. He fractured that child

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Speaker 1: go without a gun. He beat his wife without a gun.

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Speaker 1: He had the knowledge to put together sometimes it explosed

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Speaker 1: to the one it. I mean, that's an easy Google

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Speaker 1: search for any idiot that wanted to do that. This

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Speaker 1: person has been on sy drugs since the six or

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Speaker 1: ninth grade, and some reports you're saying he's been a problem.

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Speaker 1: How ful friends were fleeing from him on Facebook and

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Speaker 1: every other way they could um. If he hadn't the

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Speaker 1: bought a gun, he would have stolen one. He's not

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Speaker 1: gonna stop if that's his intention. I mean, Cheryl, I

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Speaker 1: almost feel like recoon down crying right now. Gosh, when

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Speaker 1: I think about these children, that pregnant lady and the

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Speaker 1: mother of four. I mean, Cheryl, you already know I

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Speaker 1: get up at five o'clock in the morning every morning

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Speaker 1: to get everything ready for twins. That's two children, all right,

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Speaker 1: for them to get to school on time and blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah, and take care of them. She had four

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Speaker 1: children and pregnant. I just I just oh, And I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: how could this have been stopped if only they had

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Speaker 1: put this in the database. But you know what, You're right, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: it was going to up and come hell or high water.

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Speaker 1: He was gonna do this thing. Dr Chloe Carmichael, psychologist,

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Speaker 1: creator Anxiety tools dot Com. R Chloe, why do I

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Speaker 1: look for somebody to blame? It would be so easy

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Speaker 1: to blame the air Force or the military. Right now,

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Speaker 1: it's not their fault he did this thing. It just

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Speaker 1: makes me feel better to say they did it. It's

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Speaker 1: their fault that we can fix this? Is that what

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Speaker 1: it is. I want to fix it. So in order

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Speaker 1: to fix it, you have to find who to blame. First,

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Speaker 1: why does it feel so much better to be able

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Speaker 1: to blame somebody because it's nobody it's Devin Patrick Kelly's fault,

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Speaker 1: nobody else's exactly exactly, Nancy. Of course, we always do

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Speaker 1: try to search for somebody that we can blame for

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Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. First of all, it gives us

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Speaker 1: a target for our anger, and exactly as you said,

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Speaker 1: it also gives us the idea that somebody, you know,

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Speaker 1: can be corrected so that this won't happen again, if

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Speaker 1: only they had changed their process or something like that.

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Speaker 1: That so we can think that we're more protected against

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Speaker 1: this in the future. I want to go back to

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Speaker 1: Bobby Brown, private investigator who has been investigating into Devin

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Speaker 1: Patrick Kelly's background. Bobby, you have uncovered this, this police

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Speaker 1: report where he was just beating a dog, punching it

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Speaker 1: in the face. And at first I thought, well, maybe

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Speaker 1: the dog attacks somebody, Maybe the dog did this. No,

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Speaker 1: he told police because the dog ran away. That's why

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Speaker 1: he was punching at the dog, whimpering, and and you

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Speaker 1: know the other day, what did the dog do? The

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Speaker 1: dog growled, Our little mutt growled. He's he's eight inches tall,

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Speaker 1: he's a mini He's always says he's supposed to be

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Speaker 1: a mini Docs and but he's so not. He's a mutt.

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Speaker 1: Growled at Lucy, and I'm like, you are not growling

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Speaker 1: at Lucy. And you know those cinnamon cheryl Do you

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Speaker 1: know those cinnamon brooms they sell in front of the

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Speaker 1: grocery store. It's like twenty twigs coated and cinnamon to

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Speaker 1: put together, look like a broom, and you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: put it and make it smelling. So I took the

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Speaker 1: twenty twigs and I chased the dog out with the broom.

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Speaker 1: All right. He got outside and he lowered his little

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Speaker 1: rear in. He looked so pisful, like you thought I

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Speaker 1: was going to hit him, And of course I broke

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Speaker 1: down and started crying. I'm like, fat boy, and Mommy's

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Speaker 1: not gonna spank you. Just don't grow at Lucy. I

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Speaker 1: felt so bad. All right, Bobby Brown, this guy is

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Speaker 1: punching the dog in the face, with the dog crying

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Speaker 1: and whining. Bobby, what more have you learned about this guy? Uh?

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Speaker 1: There's been, you know, so much talk about the weapons

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Speaker 1: and that he did purchase two weapons in Colorado. And

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Speaker 1: I will find out some time later today. But there's

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Speaker 1: a very good possibility that I have found out where

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Speaker 1: he did purchase uh possibly uh the A R fifteen

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Speaker 1: and that uh, that may have been right here in

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Speaker 1: Colorado Springs. Um. But it's important to say though that

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Speaker 1: everybody is you know, they want to blame the air

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Speaker 1: Force right now. But had he not had two weapons, Uh,

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Speaker 1: he could have had a pressure cooker, he could have

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Speaker 1: there's anything. He was absolutely determined that. That's what Sheryl

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Speaker 1: and I were just talking about, that he did all

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Speaker 1: these other things without weapons. Um, guys, it would not

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Speaker 1: be right for me to go forward without thinking our

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Speaker 1: sponsors who are making our investigation into this. This horrible

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Speaker 1: shooting by Devin Patrick Kelly possible, and I want to

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Speaker 1: thank them. It's legal Zoom and all you business business

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Speaker 1: you don't know a horse, look at his track record.

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Speaker 1: Legal Zoom has already helped over two million business owners

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Speaker 1: you for helping America's business owners. And I personally want

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Speaker 1: to thank you for being our partner today to make

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Speaker 1: our investigation possible. Thank you Legal Zoom with me. Aren't Harris,

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Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning investigative reporter, Cheryl McCullum, Director of the

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Speaker 1: Cold Case Institute. Dr Chloe Carmichael, New York psychologist, creator

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Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot Com, and private eye Bobby Brown.

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Speaker 1: Bobby Brown, what more have you learned? I think it's

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Speaker 1: important that we touched on the the fact that they

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, he was mentally ill, but you know,

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Speaker 1: as a former homicide investigator, I can tell you that

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Speaker 1: he was showing my thought he getting his planning of

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Speaker 1: the shooting. You know, he he he thought about getting

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Speaker 1: bulletproof vest and uh, you know, so obviously he wanted

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Speaker 1: to make sure that he was protected in that wigh.

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Speaker 1: And I think that it would be really important to

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Speaker 1: see in the autopsy, you know what type of h

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Speaker 1: drugs was he taken, what what is was in his system?

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know what drove all of this anger

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Speaker 1: and why did he come to Colorado? And I hope

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Speaker 1: to have all of that even by the end of today.

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Speaker 1: And I think the biggest thing that I will have

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Speaker 1: is uh the purchase of at least one of the

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Speaker 1: weapons that I'm relatively positive happened right here, and call

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Speaker 1: out to investigative reporter Art Harris, Art, I want to

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Speaker 1: follow up on what Bobby Brown was telling us about

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Speaker 1: him purchasing a bullet proof zest. It didn't help him

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Speaker 1: in the end, Art Harris, What do you know, Nancy?

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Speaker 1: This was one of the many things he had on

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Speaker 1: and he was armed for war, the former Air Force

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Speaker 1: veteran dishonorably or bad conduct discharge for beating his wife.

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Speaker 1: He had body armor, He had all black tactical gear.

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Speaker 1: He had this a R fifteen style weapon with extra

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Speaker 1: magazines and other guns possibly explosives in his car. He

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Speaker 1: was in a showdown that he aimed to avenge what

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Speaker 1: he perceived to be UH family issues and among the

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Speaker 1: people in the church Nancy, I'm now learning was possibly

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Speaker 1: his wife's grandmother, so he is in laws were getting

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Speaker 1: text messages from him, angry text messages. Over a period

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Speaker 1: of time. He was obsessed, as Cheryl and others are saying,

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Speaker 1: with this woman his child. People like this look at

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Speaker 1: them as objects that they own and have a right to,

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Speaker 1: and his furies were building over time as he built

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Speaker 1: up his his ammunition and his arsenal. Suddenly he unleashed

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Speaker 1: it that day. To Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Institute and a crime scene expert, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: this guy and his bulletproof vest and his methodical planning.

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Speaker 1: As Bobby Brown pointed out, Cheryl, okay, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the truth, Nancy. He's a pop He's weak, he's pathetic,

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Speaker 1: and he knows it. That's the reason he goes after

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Speaker 1: a baby, an infant. That's the reason he goes after

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Speaker 1: a week girl. That's the reason he goes into a

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Speaker 1: soft target like a church, where he knows there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be no other weapon to stop him. That's the reason

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Speaker 1: he puts on the bulletproof death. He's a punk. He

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Speaker 1: referred to his gun as a bad bitch. He's just

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Speaker 1: a bitch, you know, Cheryl. Uh. We know essentially what

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Speaker 1: happened to him in the end, But I want you

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Speaker 1: to hear from his own mouth what that hero who

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Speaker 1: chased him down has to say. Listen, you saw two

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Speaker 1: men shooting at each other. The the other hero tells

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Speaker 1: you that this killer just shot up a church. He

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Speaker 1: drives off, he tells you to chase him. You tell me,

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Speaker 1: you say, let's go. Did you have any second thoughts?

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Speaker 1: What was running through your head? Right? Then? Nothing? Get him?

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Speaker 1: Why because that's what you do. The other guy, anything

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Speaker 1: even tells about him. Uh, you know, he's very much

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Speaker 1: a hero. He acted. He acted quicker than he could

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Speaker 1: think as well. Um, he did absolutely the right thing,

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Speaker 1: which was try and take him down on the scene. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, from what I know, You know, from what

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Speaker 1: I know, he was just taking a nap and heard

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Speaker 1: the gunshots and reacted. What kind of gun did he have?

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Speaker 1: He had an a R fifteen, So they both, both

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Speaker 1: the killer and the individual you drove, had a R fifteen. Um,

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Speaker 1: the killer, the killer from what I heard, had a

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Speaker 1: pistol for during the firefight, which is the main part

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Speaker 1: that I saw. And then and then the guy with you,

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Speaker 1: the other hero, had his own fifteen year sir, and

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Speaker 1: he came out. He was barefooted. He was barefoot, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he he had no shoes on or nothing, but he

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Speaker 1: was he was ready to act. And the moment police

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Speaker 1: got there and everything, you know, he he did all

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Speaker 1: the right things. That was Johnny Langerdorff, Now listen to this.

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Speaker 1: I heard shot is the people at that church, the

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Speaker 1: friends of mine, their family, And every time I heard

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Speaker 1: a shot, I knew that that probably represented a life.

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Speaker 1: I was scared to death. I was. I was scared

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Speaker 1: for me, and I was scared for ever one of them,

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Speaker 1: and I was scared for my own family that just

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Speaker 1: lived less than a block away. I'm no hero, I

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Speaker 1: am not. I think my God, my Lord protected me

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Speaker 1: and gave me the skills to do what needed to

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Speaker 1: be done. And I just wish I could have gotten

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Speaker 1: there faster. But I didn't know. I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: was happening. That was Stephen Oliford. So Art Harris tell

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Speaker 1: me in the end what went down. In the end, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: this neighbor with a gun, sees the guy come out

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Speaker 1: of the church and is determined not to let him

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Speaker 1: get away. He pulls his own gun. It's unclear when

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00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: he fired, but this guy, this guy Kelly, dropped the weapon,

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00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: got in his truck and fled, only to be pursued

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00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: by the hero local hero and a friend at the wheel.

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00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: He runs off the road, crashes, and is found with

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Speaker 1: a gunshot wound that is fatal, and they're trying to

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Speaker 1: determine whether it was self inflicted or if it was

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Speaker 1: from this guy's gun. I know right now the very

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Speaker 1: latest is that he had three gunshot wounds. Cheryl McCollum

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Speaker 1: find it very difficult to believe he self inflicted three

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Speaker 1: gunshot wounds. These heroes had a hand in this, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: great question, the old saying the over way to stop

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Speaker 1: a bad man with a gun is a good man

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Speaker 1: with a gun. He was shot in the leg and

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Speaker 1: the torso we believe by an arm st pison. He

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Speaker 1: was found dead in his vehicle. He also had a

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Speaker 1: gunshot wound to the head. Now, after the single deadly

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Speaker 1: is shooting in Texas history, we are trying to find

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Speaker 1: out why. We know he called his father to tell

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Speaker 1: him that he was shot. What does that mean, What,

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Speaker 1: if anything, does that mean on his last moments on earth?

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00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: That's what he did. Six dead in the house of worship.

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Speaker 1: The investigation goes on. Let me pause and thank our

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Speaker 1: partner making today's investigation into the Texas church shooting possible.

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Speaker 1: On a happy note, it's link a k C dot com.

426
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: You know, guys, we were just talking about how this

427
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: guy treated his dog, and it was one of the

428
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: first indicators that he would graduate to homicide. And that's

429
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: a tried and true fact. You know, when I look

430
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: at my little puppy dog, all I think is happy thoughts, happy, happy,

431
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: you know. The twins all they wanted was a dog

432
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: and a cat. All they wanted. That's it. And it

433
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: was one of the last things my dad that you know,

434
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 1: it was my real soul mate dead on earth. We

435
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: we went and we got a dog and a cat

436
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: from the pound. Now, they told me fat Boy was

437
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: a pure bred docks and all right, guess what he's not.

438
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: But I love that dog so much and send him

439
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: a girl the cat too. And I'm always looking for

440
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: new things to do or new things to help the

441
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: two of them. And now I found this incredible new

442
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: collar and it is called link a k C. And

443
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: I want you to know about it because it's so

444
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: much more than a caller. Caller is really not even

445
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: the right word for it. It's backed by the American

446
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: Kennel Club. The link a k C collar is a

447
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: GPS locator. That's the key. Also, get this, it's a

448
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: fitness activity tracker. Yes, for a dog and a smartphone

449
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: app rolled into one. Now the thing I like the

450
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: best is the GPS locator. For instance, while I'm here working,

451
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: I don't have to worry that fat Boy is at home.

452
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: A k A. Nitro. That's the name the pound game,

453
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: and we immediately changed him to fat Boy one night

454
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: when he fell asleep in the food bag and the

455
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: next morning he was laying there on his back and

456
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: his tummy was so big it was hanging over to

457
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: one side, hence the name fat Boy. I don't have

458
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: to worry that fat Boy has jumped over the fence

459
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: and is running down the street, either chasing or being

460
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: chased by a car. I know where he is. It's

461
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: total peace of mind. I can see exactly where fat

462
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: Boy is right on the app. Now here's I love

463
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: this part. The Activity and Wellness tracker. It doesn't matter

464
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: how old or fat your dog is. It shows the

465
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: exact amount of activity every dog needs and it's easy

466
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: to set up, which is good for me. He's always

467
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: in a hurry and sizes for every dog link A

468
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: k C looks great. He's very handsome in his collar.

469
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: Check him out on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Keep your

470
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: dog safe, happy and healthy. It's easier now with another

471
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: special offer from link a k C. Go to link

472
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: a k C dot com use code Nancy in a

473
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: n C y and they will give you thirty percent

474
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: off your order and free shipping. Code Nancy. Hey, you're

475
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,479
Speaker 1: not gonna get that at the pet store, all right,

476
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: or the pet superstore, all the places my children drag

477
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: me tot off on your order and free shipping link

478
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: a k C dot com link a k C dot

479
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: com code Nancy, you know link a k C do com.

480
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: Thank you for this fun new thing I'm doing with

481
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: fat Boy, a multi millionaire, repeat, a multi millionaire now

482
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: suspected of human trafficking, of sex trafficking, a US multi millionaire,

483
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: the darling of Wall Street, and the guy that is

484
00:28:53,760 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: intimately entwined with George Soros, the billionaire. He was one

485
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: of Sorrow's former managers. Right Now claims that Howard Howie

486
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: Ruben rape and assaulted, beat, beat, flat outbeat three women

487
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: lured them for purposes of sex trafficking. I'm Nancy, Grace.

488
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

489
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: You know when I make bold and brash comments like

490
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: crime is all across the boards, it doesn't matter what

491
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: color you are, what your heritage is, whether you're rich poor,

492
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: whether you've got your doctorate degree or you didn't finish

493
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: elementary school, crime affects your life. I learned it the

494
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: hard way when my fiance was murdered. This proves it.

495
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: Joining me right now, renowned psychologist joining me out of Manhattan,

496
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: Karen Stark also with me, death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan,

497
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, and Alan, do

498
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: you joining me from l A you know? To you?

499
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, I say it, but I don't think

500
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: people really believe it. But crime is across the boards,

501
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: and this proves it. When I was prosecuting Inner City Atlanta,

502
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: I can have rich stockbrokers come in for um distributing

503
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: meth or crack or cocaine, and I could have street

504
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: dealers Pinyanni street dealers. I mean, it didn't matter. I

505
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: had rich business owners kill their wives and I had

506
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: people in the street shoot somebody data or a five

507
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: dollar hit of crack a rock. So it's true, but

508
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: this really proves it. Joseph Scott Morgan. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Nancy. Evil,

509
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: evil and crime there there are no socio economic boundaries

510
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: with this uh and in a case like this, it

511
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: would seem that evil literally has no basement to it.

512
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: Considering the nature of these crimes that have been committed.

513
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. It what

514
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: what matters is the condition of your mind and the

515
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: condition of your heart, And in this particular case, this

516
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: is heart. Heart. You think this guy has a heart,

517
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: Listen to this, Karen. Start This guy, this multi millionaire,

518
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: stated that he would rape and attack the three ladies

519
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: in a six dungeon in his penthouse apartment that he

520
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: bought with his millions of dollars specifically for these attacks,

521
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: and then would leave and go quote back to his

522
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: wife and kids on the Upper east Side. So he

523
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: would go rape these ladies and some kind of a

524
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: dungeon where he kept them literally enslaved, and then go

525
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: back to his wife and kids uptown. Karen, I'll tell

526
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: you now, see it just it bellies your imagination to

527
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: know that this guy, he was featured in best selling

528
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: books like Liars Poker and The Big Short, and that

529
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: he actually paid for this place where he had all

530
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: of these chains and whips, and he paid these women

531
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: to come so he could actually abuse them. Now, wait

532
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: a minute. Human trafficking is different from hiring a hooker

533
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: to let you spanker or hit her with a whip.

534
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: That's a whole another can of worms. So what exactly

535
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: are we talking about Alan Deep? I know that he

536
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: was a manager of one of George Soros investment funds.

537
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: First of all, tell me about who is George Soros.

538
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: I think that's very critical to this. George Soros is

539
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: one of the richest men in the world. He has

540
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: a lot of investments. He's especially known for investments around

541
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: the former Soviet Union and in Europe. But he is

542
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: an American and he's very involved in American politics too.

543
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: Why do you mean by that he's very involved in

544
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: American politics. George Soros is one of the richest men

545
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: in the world, and he manages all. He has a

546
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: lot of investments. He's especially known for investments in Asia

547
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: and around the former Soviet Union and in Europe. But

548
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: he is an American and he's very involved in American

549
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: politics too. Okay, you know how I feel about politicians.

550
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: They all lie so Republican, Democrat or grain, they're all line. Sorry,

551
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: there you go. So George Soros. Soros is a billionaire

552
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: and this guy managed one of his investment funds. Now,

553
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: let's get down to the facts. In this case, I

554
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: am talking about a multi millionaire. He's filthy rich. And

555
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: when I say filthy, that's just what I mean. In Manhattan,

556
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: that kept a dungeon for women that he kept as

557
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: sex trafficking slaves. Now again, that's a lot different than

558
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: some guy hiring a hooker. Now, why is he being

559
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: accused of sex trafficking? Alan, give me those Because of

560
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: the way that it was allegedly done. He had a

561
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: quote enterprise, He had employees, staff members, and including a lawyer,

562
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: allegedly who would scout out these women, mostly in Florida,

563
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: finding them through social media. They would have these Instagram

564
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: accounts where they these are former Playboy playmates. Two of

565
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 1: the three women in this allegation, this lawsuit are former

566
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: Playboy playmates. They would Why are you throwing that fact in?

567
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: Do you think I care? I don't care if it's

568
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: a Playboy playmate or mother Teresa, God rest her soul.

569
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,919
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Lady Justice is wearing a blindfold, Alan Deep.

570
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: He does not distinguish between victims or defendants. Well, these

571
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: were not necessarily or even allegedly hookers. These were women

572
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: who were contacted and said, Look, nobody even said they

573
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: were hooker's. You said they were tying. You mentioned it earlier. Okay,

574
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: I said that because you said these were people he

575
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: would pay to use whips on there. No, no, no,

576
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: they didn't know that they were going to have whips used.

577
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: That's what I'm okay, you know what, Let's start a square.

578
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. Every day we start this show,

579
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're going to pull out the

580
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: whips on me. Just go with yes and you'll be safe.

581
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: But usually just go with yes. Now start at the beginning.

582
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: We'll start with Soros. He's the billionaire. And now we've

583
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: got this guy Ruben that works for him. He's the millionaire.

584
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: All right, take it from there. He's sixty two years old.

585
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: He has this staff that he allegedly cruise, you're never

586
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: too A man is never too old for a sex attack.

587
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: Go ahead. That's what I've always thought. He's he's got

588
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: these staff members who scout out these women allegedly on Instagram,

589
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: send them, invite, say hey, we're gonna fight you to

590
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: New York. I bet they're glad they went and got

591
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: their warton NBA to go work for Soros so they

592
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: can go on Instagram to to look at the next

593
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: sex trafficking victim. That's if that is true. Frankly, they

594
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: need to be roped in on this investigation as well.

595
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: That's a whole another can of worms. Go ahead. So

596
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: he has slunk, he's looking for women online and flies

597
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: them from Florida or wherever to New York, takes them

598
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: to this penthouse and says on Jet Blue on Jet Blue,

599
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: an eight million dollar penthouse in Manhattan. And as you said, correctly,

600
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: it allegedly was only rented for the purpose because in

601
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: a side room of this Manhattan penthouse he had a

602
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: dungeon that was equipped with all kinds of sex toys

603
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: and torture equipment, and then he allegedly would drug them,

604
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: chain them, up, beat them, sometimes so brutally that they

605
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: had to have medical attention. One of these women actually

606
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: had to have her breast implants flipped over again because

607
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: of the damage that allegedly was hold on. I've been

608
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: a little bit joking about this guy because I find

609
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: him contemptible. If these claims are true. But listen to this,

610
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: Karen Stark, to what Alan do you is reporting? The

611
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: women claim Rubin and his associates trick them, lure them

612
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: to New York City on Jet Blue flights after being

613
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: contacted on Instagram. Once they get there, they claim he

614
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: drugs them and beats them so violently while they are gagged,

615
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: that feeling of helplessness, of being bound and gagged and

616
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: then beaten in a sex dungeon, and hitting one of

617
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: the women so hard that he either in the breast

618
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: so hard it flipped her breast implant around. Now, to me,

619
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: not only is that, you know, an aggravator assault a felony,

620
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: but it's very very telling that you would hit a

621
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: lady in her private parts. It's telling because it shows

622
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: the kind of rage that he has towards women. And

623
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: it's supposedly allegedly he said, I'm going to one of them,

624
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to rape you like I raped my daughter.

625
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: That's that's something that they say he said to one

626
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: of them, which says that even his own daughter isn't

627
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: somebody that he sees without feeling that kind of fury

628
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: and anger. So that, I mean, even when you look

629
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: at someone who's a killer. You take a look to

630
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: see what they're doing, the kind of damage that they're

631
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: doing to women. And anyone who does that is someone

632
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: who has vicious feelings towards women. I mean, you know, psychologically.

633
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 1: And I've brought this in in cases that I prosecuted before.

634
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: For instance, if you slash a woman's face, you're trying

635
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: to disfigure her beauty. Um, if you chop off her hair,

636
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,439
Speaker 1: like we saw in the Teresa Teresa hallback case, which

637
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: was the Stephen Avery Making a murder case, he chopped

638
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: her hair off before he tied her up with chains,

639
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: assaulted her, and then killed her. There is something very

640
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: specific um psychologically when you attack a certain part of

641
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: a person, like say you want to get to somebody,

642
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: you you steal all their money, You funnel all their

643
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 1: money because that's all they care about, or you steal

644
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: their pet, dog or or something that means something to them.

645
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: In this case, disfiguring a lady by slashing her face

646
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: or putting acid on her face, or beating her in

647
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: the breast, it's very telling about his state of mind.

648
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morrigan, you have investigating any many death sees.

649
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: What do you make of the theory that I'm advancing

650
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: right now, Nancy. You know I've seen this time and

651
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: time again and his brutal sexually related assault cases that

652
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: I've worked over the course of my career with these

653
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: people who are truly sexual sadist that go out and

654
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,879
Speaker 1: they attack these women. They will go as far as

655
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: literally removing the body parts of women. They're doing it

656
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: as as an attack, a sexualized attack on these individuals,

657
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: to completely humiliate them, to base them, take away everything

658
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: that identifies them as a woman, that destroys their beauty.

659
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what you're looking at here. I'm

660
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: I'm very curious if these are the only three people

661
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: he's done this too, because this sounds this sounds like

662
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 1: he's had some practice at it. This guy, Howard Rubin,

663
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: has been married since the eighties to his former Harvard

664
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: Business School classmate Mary Henry. They have three children together,

665
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: and as Karen Start pointed out, he is a an

666
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: infamous Wall Street trader who was actually blamed for bringing

667
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: about three hundred and seventy seven million dollars of losses.

668
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: Three hundred and seventy seven million dollars of losses at

669
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 1: Merrill Lynch and he's inn they they book liars poker.

670
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: He hasn't responded to these allegations yet. What more do

671
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,760
Speaker 1: we know about the facts. This lawsuit is a civil lawsuit,

672
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: not criminal, but they're doing it under RECO Laws Racketeering,

673
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, claiming that there was an

674
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: enterprise that he created. So this is a pretty serious thing.

675
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 1: They're asking for twenty seven million dollars for these three women.

676
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: The women are not named, however, as Joseph Scott Morgan said,

677
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: you might think that there were other women involved in

678
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: These are the only ones involved in this lawsuit. They're

679
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 1: claiming that they suffered emotional distress, assault, battery. But I'm

680
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: wondering why there are not criminal charges and is there

681
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: a criminal investigation going on now? You know what? I

682
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: wonder that too, And it brings to mind the whole

683
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein debacle where this one on literally for decades

684
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: and no law enforcement did a thing. And now the NYPD,

685
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: who I love, by the way, at the highest Echalon's

686
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the street cops. I'm talking about

687
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: the highest echelons amongst prosecutors that was the real problem

688
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: that wouldn't prosecute the case. After cops brought the Weinstein

689
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: case to them, they're now being shamed into acting because London,

690
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: the Brits have opened up criminal investigations on Weinstein. So

691
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: why has it been hands off on this guy? Like

692
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: nobody knew what was happening. So he would warn them,

693
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to rape you, punch them, gag them, bind them,

694
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 1: hit one woman so hard she passed out, So too,

695
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 1: Joe's got more And what more do we know about

696
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: the case. It describes force particular incidents and two thousand

697
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: and sixteen. What more do we know? Based upon what

698
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: we're hearing, what we're reading These women were severely assaulted,

699
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: severely assaulted. And what's really what's really great about this

700
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: from an evidentiary standpoint, they will have had to have

701
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: sought medical attention in this. It's not like we have

702
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: rape kits and that sort of thing to go back on.

703
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: We have their word, but we also have this documented

704
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: in medical records that can bring these doctors in and

705
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: bring their medical records in in this particular case, they

706
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: can take a look at them and they can document

707
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: what these women went through physically the trauma that they endured,

708
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: and this is going to paint a very graphic, graphic

709
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: picture in court. Well, they are also problems with the case,

710
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at it not only from a criminal

711
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: point of view, because in a rape case in New

712
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: York now, I don't believe there's a statute of limitations

713
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: so this case can be brought. Yes, they're going to

714
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: be problems, there are, but that doesn't mean the case

715
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: shouldn't be brought. I mean, if you only bring the

716
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: cases you think you're definitely gonna win to a jury.

717
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: I mean, all you're gonna be representing our nuns and

718
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: priests and virgins for Pete's sake. Well, that's not how

719
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: how victims come. They don't come that way. The problems

720
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: are these. The women left the dungeon, but they came back. Also,

721
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: they did not call police at the time. What are

722
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: the problems with the case, Alan Duke, Well, they're just

723
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: like you said, they didn't go to the cops and

724
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,479
Speaker 1: this but this is a civil case. They're just trying

725
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: to show damages, and you do have physical damage. But

726
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: then again, this man is already allegedly paid twenty dollars

727
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 1: to have this woman's breast reconstructed after the alleged rape.

728
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: So why why why why I didn't know that? Yeah,

729
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: they they've already paid money every time a woman was hurt.

730
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: She got the five thousand dollars allegedly and medical expenses. Well,

731
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: they say that once they were in his penthouse, after

732
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: he lured them here, lured them there, he would then

733
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: turn on them. His whole to me or his facade

734
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: would change and he would rape them and beat them

735
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: so severely they needed medical treatment. Then as flunkeys or

736
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: as they say, associates would offer them more cash and

737
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: exchange for silence and paid all their medical bills. He

738
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: paid their medical bills. That is documented. And this this

739
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: is crazy. They had to sign DA's nondisclosure agreements before

740
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: they entered the penthouse. They had to sign this statement

741
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: saying that what happened inside stays inside. I don't know

742
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,280
Speaker 1: how legal that is, um not at all. And also

743
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: as far as proof goes Karen Stark, it will be

744
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: just a matter of computer forensics for someone um, you

745
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: know like Ben Levitan, my buddy, uh the telecommunications expert,

746
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: to look up how they were contacted on Instagram because

747
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: according to them, they would be contacted by a Reuben

748
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: associate who had been trolling for them online, stating he

749
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: would like to meet her in New York and in

750
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: fact in the Instagram that even referred to him as h.

751
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: All of this will turn out being evidence. This is

752
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 1: just another example of online crime in my mind, Karen,

753
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: It's also another example of the kind of arrogance that

754
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: you see in Harvey Weinstein. That the very thing that

755
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: you brought up, Nancy, where somebody who feels that they

756
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: are powerful enough and they could use their money and

757
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: their power to do whatever they would like to do

758
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 1: to victimize women, abuse them and destroy them. And it

759
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: just makes you think about how often, not this particular example,

760
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: but how often that goes on with women where people

761
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: pay them or have power over them so they can

762
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: dominate them. So where does this stand right now, Alan, Deep, Well,

763
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: it was just filed just very recently and there's been

764
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: no response to it from Mr Reuben or his lawyers.

765
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: So it's going to go through the federal court, civil

766
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: court process. I'm sure there'll be depositions, etcetera, etcetera. This

767
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: is an example we talked about why there are prosecutors

768
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: and a criminal case on this This lawsuit was brought

769
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: by lawyers who make a good living off of finding

770
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: people who were hurt and suing on their behalf on

771
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: a contingency. These lawyers stand to make an awful lot

772
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: of money. I don't know what the percentage wheter they

773
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,919
Speaker 1: get a third of whatever is the judgment. So that's

774
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: where it's going. It's just gonna go through this long

775
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: protracted legal unless he reaches the settlement. The women state

776
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 1: that he would take them out for dinner and drinks

777
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: where he was cordial and respectful. Then they would all

778
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: go back to his place and suddenly as soon as

779
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: they were there, his demeanor would change. He would fix

780
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: them drinks out of sight, which they now say they're

781
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: convinced was spiked. That he had some kind of a

782
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: large X shaped machine with straps, a bench, full face

783
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: masks with zippers and metal hooks, that he would immediately

784
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: slap them across the face, that everything was unexpected. They

785
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: did not realize that that was what was going to happen.

786
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: I just wonder if this is going to result Joseph

787
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan in any criminal charges or do you think

788
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: the prosecutor's office believes you have to be pure. Is

789
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: the driven snow to be a victim in their courthouse.

790
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: One of the things I'm wondering about here is did

791
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: he videotape? Did he record any of these events? And

792
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: if he did many times with these kind of serialized events,

793
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: these people will hang on to this for forever and

794
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: ever because they like to go back and relive this.

795
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: And if the police do a thorough job, if they

796
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: can get their electronic surveillance people in from a forensics

797
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: perspective and dig through his files, there's all kinds of

798
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: damning information that could be dug up on this fellow,

799
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: because you know, when he's when he's at home living

800
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: the normal kind of Norman Rockwell life that he might

801
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: perceive himself with his family, he might go into some

802
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 1: dark place and review this stuff, hitting away from everybody

803
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: else because he's leading this double life. We stand by

804
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: waiting for the latest. In this case a multi millionaire.

805
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 1: Now a cut is of sex trafficking and these papers

806
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: and how alan are they getting the church sex trafficking

807
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: versus a simple sex assault. Well, it's under the Rico provisions,

808
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: the Rico Act, and I think they're they're going to

809
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: try to prove that there was an enterprise because he

810
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 1: had employees, he had a lawyer allegedly helping him. It

811
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: was an organization, and they trafficked them because they brought

812
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: them from Florida under false pretenses to New York to

813
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: Manhattan and then did this to them. Well, you know what,

814
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: you're right about that, and nothing makes me matter. Then

815
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: a crime not only violent nature, but committed by someone

816
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: that believes they are above the law because they're not

817
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: God willing, they're not Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off

818
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: goodbye to