WEBVTT - A Crash Course in Refugee Economics 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.080 We've seen the images on TV about people fleeing conflict 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.640 in the Middle East, specifically Syria, trying to make their 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.160 way to a better life. What happens to refugees after 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.840 they get here? How do they pay their rent and 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:18.120 get a job? The biggest problems facing refugees being resettled 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.520 in the US is economic, and help is coming from 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:35.159 what might be considered an unlikely place, Wall Street. Welcome 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.200 to Benchmark, a podcast about the global economy. I'm Daniel Moss, 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.159 a columnist for Bloomberg View in New York, and I'm 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:46.519 Scott Landman and economics editor with Bloomberg in Washington. A 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:51.600 couple of financial market insiders have started a foundation interfaith 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.880 Refugee project that raises money from some of the biggest 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:59.080 names in the business pinco, JP, Morgan Goldman, Sachs, Morgan 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.080 Stanley in a few others along the way. They're trying 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:06.800 to re engineer refugee resettlement with a distinctly economic edge. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.440 Welcome to our guests, Greg Sharon Now and Michelle Brohart. 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:15.720 Thank you before we dive too deeply into this. Our 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.880 story here isn't just some technocratic exercise in a profit 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:24.800 and loss spreadsheet. It's also deeply personal. Tell us about 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.960 what you do in the finance industry and a little 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:31.479 bit about your background. Sure, I'm a portfolio manager PIMPCO. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.920 I manage our commodity mutual fund and absolute term products, 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:38.040 and I contribute to the rest of the back of 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:43.399 thought process regarding energy and portrollum in particular. My background 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.119 is that I am in relationship to the work I'm 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.440 doing refugees outside of office hours, is that I'm a 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.360 grandchild of refugees. And tell us a little bit about 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:57.280 your grandparents refugee experience. Yes, and my grandparents were fortunate 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.080 to get out of Germany in the late nineties and 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.880 be resettled into Panama. It was good fortune because my 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.480 grandmother was able to use a relationship her family had 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:11.280 had previously with the Panamanian ambassador Germany to get herself out. 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.560 That shows how lucky and fortunate she was. And then 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.600 I got to be a product of the experience of 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:22.680 her and my grandfather re integrating into a new country 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:25.520 where they did not speak the language. Her education was 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.480 taken from her because she was still a teenager at 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.760 that time, so they did not have the normal skills 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:34.000 that you would have to be successfully integrated to an economy, 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.960 and they did not have family and natural connections. And 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.360 when I go through my family's history, it really is 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:44.359 emblematic of what the refugee experiences. Michelle, My experience is 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.200 a little different with the refugees. I am born and 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.679 raised in Kansas with parents and grandparents and great grandparents 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.600 who have all been American, and we haven't really experienced 0:02:55.639 --> 0:03:00.519 a refugee crisis in Kansas. We have any of things 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:04.600 the matter with Kansas that's there. There are wonderful things 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.760 about Kansas, and there are wonderful things that need to 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.519 change about Kansas. That's for sure. Kansas is one of 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.520 the states that has chosen to not take refugees. That 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.040 wasn't really the catalyst that pushed me um. It was 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.480 the conversations that we had with the It was what 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.640 you would see in the news, and also just being 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.639 in the oil industry, you read a lot about Libya 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:25.560 and the fleeing of people, and you read about these 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.079 humanitarian crisis that of course impact the oil market, but 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.480 also impact humanitarian aid in Europe and what it's doing 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:36.440 even to like the nearby countries. So my interaction with 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:40.480 refugees was I. I left the US for a week 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.160 or two, maybe two weeks, and went to Jordan to 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.560 visit a refugee camp and to visit some of some 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.040 internally displaced people inside of Jordan's um, and I met 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.960 refugees who had been fleeing from Syria as well as Iraq. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.080 And the interesting thing I think about the my interaction 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.200 with some of the refugees from Iraq was that it 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.680 must have been six months, no, maybe maybe eighteen months 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.360 before I had gone there, Ices had attacked Mosl. And 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.600 when Isis attacked Mosle, those those people fled from there. 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.000 But the impact that it had on the oil market 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.960 was significant. Even though Mosa was nowhere near oil's oil supply, 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.400 it's still impacted the market. I met a lot of 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.640 those refugees from that, and so my relationship with Mosle 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.080 and the refugees all got tied together at that point. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.200 And what do you do in the oil industry? I 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.440 trade oil and oil products. Now, how did you get 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:35.200 the broader financial services seen interested in the work that 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.520 you're doing. Now? Many people in finance give a lot 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:42.960 back some of the country's biggest philanthropists from the street, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.880 But was this a particular area that you found was underserved. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.440 So I think what was evident to me and Michelle 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.640 and Who's saying, is that we work in very global communities, 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:57.839 we work in very current communities. But how do people 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.160 get engaged with donating and how do people getting age 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.040 are called They need someone to help them get over 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.200 the finish line, something to connect with, and at that 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.359 time there wasn't that obvious connection happening among our community. 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.240 I am fortunate that my wife, Julie Gersnie is one 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.960 of our founders, worked in international human rights and nonprofits 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.800 for her career. And when I went home two years ago, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:18.920 and this was after the pictures of the Turkish of 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.520 the boy washing up on the Turkish shores, you know, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.720 we were able to use our connections through her work 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.920 to engage in this. And then I looked around and said, well, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.120 I wonder if we had the same pathway for everyone 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.440 else who who I work with, the new Michelle works with, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.560 to become engaged in the subject. Couldn't we really start 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.800 moving the needle, both raising dollars to help address refugees, 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.839 but more important, raising advocacy efforts and building community to 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.200 address some of the greater. You know ills that the 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:49.520 refugees were facing, and how do you make the maximum 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.479 economic impact with the dollars that you raise. You know, 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.440 what do you target and what are the basic economic needs? 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.720 Are the most basic economic needs that you are seeking 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:05.360 to rectify. So we took a life cycleolistic approach. Um. 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.080 For one, we started from no infrastructure, so we had 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.640 a physical sponsor model which allows us to then take 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.279 whatever money we receive and distributed to our partners. But 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.840 we don't have the ability to run overhead, so all 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.040 of that is paid for out of pocket by the founders. 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.000 And what we did is we decided we were also 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.680 not experienced enough to drive programming that we wanted to 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.280 support organizations that we're doing critical work from whether or 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.640 not they're helping like World Vision and Islamic Relief does 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.679 in the camps helping people literally to sustain their lives 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:36.760 at a point where the greatest vulnerability to using. The 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:40.200 International Refugee Assistance Project, which helps the legal services of 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.240 refugees who need help to gain resettlement and then highest 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.440 on the United States Fund, is one of the nine organizations, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.279 most seven of which are faith based, that actually do 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.240 the actual act resettling in the United States. So our 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.200 project decided to take the life cycle approach support organizations. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.280 We thought we're doing valuable work at all different portions 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.800 of the refugee life cycle. You know, at PIMCO, we've 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.080 actually done an additional step that I was involved with 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:11.480 where we signed up for the previous White Houses call 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.160 for public private partnership. And what PIMCO decided to do, 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:17.960 and we certainly think this is a great idea, is 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:23.320 they raised money to pay for housing for refugees in 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.600 our Orange County community. And why we determined to do 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:28.360 this is that if you look at a refugee comes 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.880 to United States, the US government only gives a few 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.640 thousand dollars to one of these resettlement agencies that are 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.360 supposed to give them a couple of months of running 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.960 start and in their integrating up and then they are 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.520 able to get some social services from other parts of 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.600 the federal support system. But effectively it is not enough. 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.240 And if you look at the needs of the refugees, 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.200 they spend in an ordinate amount of time simply trying 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.720 to raise money to pay their rent when what they 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:55.440 really need to be doing. A lot of them needs 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.760 needs to be learning how to speak language, gain training 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.560 creates stability in their home. If you have your home 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.920 and you're moving seven times in a year because you're 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:05.960 struggling to meet your rent, your kids are not in 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.560 the school in a stable environment, and you end up 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.640 creating a cycle of poverty that it becomes harder to escape. 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.440 And then you're falling into this cliche eye view of 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.360 what a refugee really is that they're draining on society 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.800 at ctera, etcetera. Yes, when in fact, if you look 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.760 at refugees as a whole, they tend relative to other 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:28.320 immigrants by a higher incidents of home ownership. Eventually higher 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.760 instances are becoming that citizen. They tend to be very 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.760 interested because in the country that they've allowed to come 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:36.880 to is the one who saved their lives and has 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.439 given them a future. And you know, in some respects 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.680 we feel like it's important to support refugees here to 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.000 gain that success. And you know, we also think it's 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:50.240 very important and we've supported to organizations that are very 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.960 active in advocacy because we do think it's important that 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.800 we need to rally Congress, we need to rally our 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.920 support for continue doing not only to allow refugees to resettle, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.280 but to ensure that when they get here that they 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:04.400 have a chance for success. Talk a little bit about 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.760 this cycle of poverty that you say some people fall into. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:15.040 Is there too much attention on that in resettlement programs 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:20.560 and not enough on getting people into a role where 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:24.680 they can participate in the economy. And what we're talking 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.839 about here is sort of how we think about refugees 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.360 in a popular sense. You know, where it's impacting our 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.200 election cycles. Where it's impopping our dialogue on a national level, 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.720 is that we are focusing on the challenges to both 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.200 the physical budget and the drain on society. And you 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.559 know whether or not there is someone who is losing 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.520 out because we're helping refugees come in, meaning like there's 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.599 an American that could have gotten that social services that 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.400 were subsequent to prize. But when you look at over 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.800 the life cycle of the refugee, these refugees are within 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.319 eight to nine years. There's a study done and and 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.440 we are working paper published by two professors and a 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.000 Notre dame that highlight by year eight or nine, they're 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:07.600 positively contributing to the fiscal balance, positively contributing to the 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.160 economy and by your twenty they've returned twent of investment. 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.760 And if you leok just so folksiclear when you say 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.360 the n B you're talking about the National Bureau of 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:21.400 Economic Research, the group which did a calls recessions and 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:25.719 recoveries one of our favorite topics. And if you look 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.400 at it, there was a Department of Human and Health 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.319 Services published or they didn't publish, they weren't allowed to, 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:34.720 but it was leaked that refugees contribute sixties three billion 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.560 dollars to the economy over ten years. So I think 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.760 when you think about how much they are contributing already, 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.880 imagine how much more they could contribute if we really 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.120 gave them the tools to success and we really built 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.640 their foundation for them to be successful. Let's talk a 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.439 little bit more about the economic angle and the political 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.520 issues here. I mean, you have too trends happening in 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.480 the world right now. You have a big increase in 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:03.720 refugees thanks to especially to war in Syria, mainly going 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:08.120 towards Europe. And you have a change in the administration 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.680 here in the United States that offers a view that's 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:16.280 very much opposed to um having an open door towards refugees, 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.480 even though they just I think in recent days relaxed 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.640 the policy somewhat. How has that affected what you do? 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.120 Do you feel that you have to work twice as 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.400 hard to reach your goals? Or more people open up 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.200 their wallets as a result of these kinds of events. 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.679 How would you sum up what's going on? So that's 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.400 a that's a really great question. We've actually seen because 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.959 of the political rhetoric, we've actually seen a lot more 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:45.360 people interested in contributing to to to assisting in the 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.520 refugee crisis, whether it's resettlement, whether it's advocacy, whether it's 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:53.520 donating money, whether it's just holding holding small functions to 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.920 help spread the word on on just educating the public 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.680 on what a refugee is and how refugees contribute to 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.840 our our society. So we've actually seen because of the 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.200 because of the reddick, we've actually seen a lot of 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.559 a lot more people step up and say what can 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.000 I do? How can I be a part? How can 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.120 I help? I would say, on a personal level, one 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:14.480 of the hardest things for me to do is to 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.160 ask people to get involved, and it's amazing how often 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.320 they come back and say no, thank you for asking us, 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.200 and you realize how much people are yearning for community. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.359 And part of what we're doing is not just raising money, 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:27.480 are advocating of the average, but we are trying to 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.199 build bridges across different faiths and different and people of 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.640 all sorts of backgrounds, because we think one of the 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.560 reasons we have struggled to meet the needs of refugees 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.240 is that we don't see them as equals. Now, you've 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:43.840 mentioned greg that most refugees being resettled a children. Now 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:49.120 that must present a very unique economic challenge. It's not 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.800 just a question of getting them into the workforce, it's 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.040 a question of getting them the life skills so they 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.960 have the potential to contribute the workforce. How do you 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.800 do that and is there enough attention focused on that. 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.920 There's been academic studies that have shown that if you 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.360 bring children in under fourteen, they show same level graduation 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:12.120 rates of the US citizens have and they go on 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:16.040 to achieve higher UM education and dissimilar rate and they 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.880 end up having fairly high success rates professionally. UM. There 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.960 is an area, though, as you start getting closer to 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.079 high school age and older, where there are structural challenges 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.600 such as English as a second language that have made 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.640 it harder for those young people those dependents to be successful. 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.360 In addition, there are challenges around the fact that if 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.120 a child is coming without a parent or without two parents, 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.760 there's a lot of social challenges that come up with 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.240 that that needs support. UM So we through our support 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.960 of our partners, we some of the money does go 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:55.240 to helping these individuals overcome those challenges, and I think 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.240 we need to help them do so so that they 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.000 could become productive and have the ability to be success 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.960 Sulder integration. One of the interesting things that I have 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.120 learned is that less than one percent of refugees actually 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.240 get resettled, and so even though the children that do 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.000 get resettled do make it through the resettlement process, there 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.600 is an entire generation of children that are not being resettled, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.560 that are not receiving formal education, that are not in 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.840 child friendly zones, and that that is an entire generation 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:24.840 that is going to be lost. And there are a 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.920 lot of NGOs that are calling that generation of children 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.880 the lost generation. One last question, You guys both have 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.640 pretty consuming day jobs, and you're you're doing all this 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.680 work with refugees in your spare time. Has the work 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.680 you've done with refugees given you any specific insights that 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.960 help you do your day jobs? You know, I don't 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.280 think that there's anything that I'm doing in the work 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.920 that really overlaps, except for obviously the refugee crisis are 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.320 in the countries where oil production is, and so maybe 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.880 there's a tiny bit of overlap. I think what it's 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.560 done is just me overall a more alert and aware person, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.080 and it's given me an extra dose of compassion. So 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.240 I think it's helped us understand a little bit of 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.440 the political dynamics developing, which at times can leave one 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:16.640 feeling very distressed and sad, but also quite aware of them. 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.000 And at the same token, though, when we're following what 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.200 is going on in the political dynamics, because of where 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.160 we sit, we also seeing the dynamics and the pendulum 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:26.920 swinging the other way. You know, we're getting activists who 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.840 were getting people who are passionate about these issues, who 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:31.880 are going to show up and potentially lead to different 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.400 political outcomes in the future. So I guess I kind 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.800 of think that I'm a little maybe we're going to 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.360 be a little bit too into what they the opposing sees, 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.320 and to either of you, there is a Mike Pants 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.760 connection in this story. What you're referencing here is the 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:47.880 story of the family that was not allowed to resettle 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:52.800 in Indiana and was subsequently successfully resettled in Connecticut. I 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.960 think what that points to me is it's the fear 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.840 that is going in about refugees and not an understanding 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.760 of how well vetted these people are, and how they 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:03.840 are the most vetted of anyone who's coming to unite 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.400 to days. I think most people don't realize that that's 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.080 lost in the public narrative. For sure. You know, that's 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.680 several years of vetting before they're allowed end one. We 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.760 think of that as a last opportunity for the state 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.040 of Indiana and one game for Connecticut. But the bigger 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:20.080 issue is that as the states pull back and are 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.480 less willing to work to support refugees, it increases the 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.080 onus of the work we're doing, which is to support 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.200 from a civil society standpoint to step in. Thank you both, 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.000 and good luck to you. Thank you, thank you very much. 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.160 We'll be back next week and until then you can 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.360 find us on the Bloomberg terminal Bloomberg dot com. Our 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.480 Bloomberg app, as well as Apple Podcasts, pocket Casts, and Stitcher. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.160 While you're there, take a minute, rate and review the 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.040 show so more listeners can find us and let us 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.160 know what you thought. You can follow me at Twitter, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:17:00.800 at Moss Underscore Eco Scott I'm at scott Landman. Benchmark 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.080 is produced by Sarah Pattison. Head of Bloomberg Podcast is 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.200 Francesco Levie. Thanks for listening, See you next time.