1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or a soon to be 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: parent and expecting mom or dad. Please don't give them 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: another onesie or another toy that you know is going 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: to end up in the garage or at the goodwill. 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Give them something that matters, and what matters the most 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: protecting your child. What do you love the most in 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: the world Your children? I do, and I will do 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: anything to protect my twins. Go to crime stops here 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: dot com. It is a five part series with action 10 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: information that you can use to change your life and 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: protect your child's life. Payment starting at six. Give that 12 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: as a gift, not another onesie or a plastic toy. 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: Give them something that matters. Find out how to protect 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: your child out and about at the mall, at the store, 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: at the grocery store, in the parking lot, at home. 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: By doubt about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online 17 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: cyber security. Oh yes, my children are online, and you 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: better bet I'm doing everything within my power to protect them. 19 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: Payments starting six. I would much rather have that than 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: yet another plastic baby doll or god forbid, a toy gun. 21 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: Just what I don't want. Joined the Justice Nation. Crime 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: stops here dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This 23 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: is an ABC News special report. Good morning. We're coming 24 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: on the air right now with breaking news. For those 25 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: of you watching with young children in the room, you 26 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: may want to ask them to leave right now. There 27 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: has been a shooting at a synagogue. One call or 28 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: sounded like they may have been shot. A man agonal breathing, 29 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: Several calls of persons faltering at place within the structure. 30 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: I got one of the three back in one right now, 31 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: reached on four down in neutrial new or of the 32 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: time working the problem. Tall white male, short hair, white 33 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: blue shirt. I'm going in the chilling words of the 34 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: synagogue shooting suspect posted online online before this evil man 35 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: opens fire with an A R fifteen on a child 36 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: and infants naming ceremony, yelling all Jews must die, killing 37 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: eleven injuring six, including four police officers, while the victims 38 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: are praying. Here in America, this evil hate crime has happened. 39 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: Can you even imagine? I was thinking back to Sunday morning, 40 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: when I was sitting there with John, David and Lucy 41 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: and my eighties seven year old mother and my husband praying. 42 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: I was thinking about my dad as a matter of fact, 43 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: in that moment of silence, can you imagine gunshots breaking out? 44 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: I Yancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for 45 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: being with us. We are live and taking your calls 46 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: in the aftermath the most deadly worship shooting in recent history. 47 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: Listen moments ago, police reporting there are multiple casualties with 48 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: three officers shot. The suspect is in customing. This all 49 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: happening at the Tree of Life Synagogue in the area 50 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: of Wilkins and Shady Avenues in Pittsburgh's Squirrel Hill neighborhood. 51 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: Multiple law enforcement agencies now responding. Police are telling people 52 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: in that area to avoid the area, and they are 53 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: also telling people who live in that neighborhood to stay 54 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: in their houses and lock their door, saying it is 55 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: not safe to be out. You're hearing from our friends 56 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: at ABC. Joining me right now is a very special guest, 57 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: in addition to Emmy Award winning investigative reporter Aunt Harris, 58 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: Brian Levin, Joe Scott Morgan, Dr Bethany Marshall. Bruce Alexander 59 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: joining me right now is a member of the congregation. 60 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: His wife scheduled to be there that morning, but something 61 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: occurred for her not to attend. His friends were victims. 62 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: Joining me right now, John Pashynski, John, thank you for 63 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: being with us. Tell me what happened that morning. It's 64 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 1: the morning my wife normally with attended service, as she 65 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: goes on thist every Saturday morning. We had a chore 66 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: to run, and so she did not go, and we 67 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: got in the car to drive to run their chore. 68 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: And she was driving, I received a text act from 69 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: one of our close Muslim friends asking if we were okay. 70 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: I read the message to my wife and said, what's 71 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: he talking about? So I called him and he told 72 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: us what was happening, and he had contacted us to 73 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: make sure we were okay. Moments later, I got a 74 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: text from a close friend in Israel asking if we 75 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: were all right, So they knew in Israel before my 76 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: wife and I knew. At that point, we decided to 77 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: abandon our shore and we tried to drive to the synagogue, 78 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: even though we were told it was still on active 79 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: shooting scene. We did not want to abandon their synagogue 80 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: in its time of need. Of course, we were stuffed 81 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: at the police lines and we parked the car and 82 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: actually tried to hike in, but we came again onto 83 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: police lines and more stuff from going forward. Very close 84 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: friends were in there. One of our close friends was 85 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: killed and then there is seriously injured. What was Mr 86 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 1: Pashnsky the service that was going on with at a brisk. 87 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: The building is very large and there are three different 88 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: congregations that meet and used that building. So our congregation 89 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: was going to hold its regular Saturday morning service, but 90 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: one of the other congregations was holding a brisk which 91 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: is the ritual circumcision ceremony for a baby boy on 92 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: the eighth day of life. Mr Pashynsky. When you arrived, 93 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: what did you observe? There were police lines about two 94 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: blocks away. All the roads were blocked off and they 95 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: had police at each road, turning people away and directing 96 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: traffic around the area. What have you been told, Mr 97 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: Pastrinsky regarding what the victims, the ones that lived observed 98 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: noticed what happened inside the synagogue. One of our congregants 99 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: did escape. He heard the He was inside already, He 100 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: heard the gunshots and was able to run out. He 101 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: then stopped other congregants who were arriving to attend the 102 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: service from going into the building, but they were in 103 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: the parking lot already. H Our Jewish Community Center opened 104 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: its door Saturday and set up a gathering place for 105 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: each of the three congregations, and we went there to 106 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: be with some of the members from our synagogue, including 107 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: the wife of our friend who turned out was killed, 108 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: and she was waiting there to hear word from the authorities. 109 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: Of course, we were all very concerned because he was 110 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: one of the people who were unaccounted for, and that 111 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: in and by itself was a very entire news for us, 112 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: since we were able to ascertain who was safe, and 113 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: so when there was someone we put in the account board, 114 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: that was very bad. The gunman who opened fire on 115 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: a Pittsburgh synagogue this Saturday morning murdered eleven people injuring others. 116 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: We now know him to be forty six year old 117 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: Robert Bowers, a longtime anti Semite who often complained on 118 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: social media about the quote infestation of Jews. To my 119 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: longtime friend Emmy Award winning reporter Art Harris Art, it 120 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: hurts me to even repeat those words, and sometimes after 121 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: one hate attack after the next, after the next, after 122 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: the next, on Jeeves, I don't understand it. I don't 123 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: understand the hatred where it came from. Everyone described him 124 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: as a ghost, that he lived alone in the small apartment, 125 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: was very was very amiable to people around him, but 126 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: on the on the internet, on a hate phil website 127 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: called gab, his hatred just gushed out until it exploded 128 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: that morning outside the synagogue, after he had seen apparently 129 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: a video about the caravan of emigrants coming towards America 130 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: and a Jewish group that welcomed people like that into 131 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: the country and we settled them. He exploded went to 132 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: the synagogue with his gun. He had twenty one guns, 133 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: Nancy registered legally in his name. He had an a 134 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: R Colt of R fifteen Cult rifle, and he had 135 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: three blocks. And he busted into the synagogue in the 136 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 1: middle of the most sacred day of the week, as 137 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: as people were getting ready they were praying. There were 138 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: some people in the in the kitchen getting food ready 139 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: for a for another service, and and he began opening 140 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: fire with with just gunning down whoever was in front 141 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: of him. People were hiding in the closet holding their breath. 142 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: This was a test of courage and endurance for those inside. 143 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: Nancy and as you as you hear about some of 144 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: the individual acts of endurance. There was one man who 145 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: was afraid his phone might might be blinking red and 146 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: he was just praying. The guy didn't have a flashlight. 147 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: He opened the door to that room and couldn't see in, 148 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: and he left. Another person was hiding in the closet 149 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: as the police finally busted in after the nine one 150 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: one call. We've just heard SWAT SWAT teams rushing to 151 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: the gunfire as they're now trained to do an active 152 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: shooter situation. Uh, and they engaged him on the third floor. 153 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: By then he had killed eleven people. Uh, and he 154 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: got into a gun paddle to the police. Three were 155 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: injured and one of the SWAT officers hurt him. Say 156 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: he wanted quote all Jews to die. Seventy five year 157 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: old Joyce Feinberg of Oakland, sixty five year old Richard 158 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: Gottfried of Ross Township, ninety seven year old Rose Mallinger 159 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 1: of Squirrel Hill, sixty six year old Jerry Rabinowitz of Edgewood, 160 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: fifty nine year old Cecil Rosenthal of Squirrel Hill, UM 161 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: fifty four year old David Rosenthal. David and Cecil Rosenthal 162 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 1: were brothers. Eighty four year old Bernice Simon of Wilkinsburg, 163 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: eighty six year old Sylvan Simon of Wilkinsburg. Bernice and 164 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: Sylvan were husband and wife, seventy one year old Daniel 165 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: Stein of Squirrel Hill, eighty eight year old Melvin Wax 166 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: of Squirrel Hill, and sixty nine year old Irving Younger 167 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: of Mount Washington. You are hearing the names of those 168 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: murdered gunned down at worship as they were praying on 169 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: Saturday with me. Bruce Alexander, terror expert Art Harris, investigative reporter, 170 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Brian Levin, 171 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism. 172 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: And John Pashynski, a member there at the congregation whose 173 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: wife was scheduled to be there that morning his friends 174 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: were shooting victims. Mr Pashnski, again, thank you for being 175 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: with us since this has happened. How has it affected 176 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: your wife? Um, we're all devastated. Of course, she's so 177 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: relieved that she's here. Our children who and their families 178 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: who live in Philadelphia. Actually, as soon as they heard 179 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: the news packed their carson drove to Pittsburgh, so they've 180 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: been with us. UM. She talks already about experiencing some 181 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: degree of survivor guilt because she felt that she should 182 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:07,359 Speaker 1: have been there or would have been there, And everyone 183 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: who survived has to ask or is asking themselves why 184 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 1: then and not me? And would things have been different 185 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: if I had been there? Um. So we've had a 186 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: lot of discussions around those issues. Our congregation is a 187 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: very tight knit congregation. We met yesterday at local church 188 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: was kind enough to give us space to meet for 189 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: the first time together as a congregation. We expected on 190 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 1: such short notice maybe fifty to sixty people would show up. 191 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: My guess is that we had between three hundred three 192 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: hundred fifty people there. So the congregation is of course devastated. Uh. 193 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: The man who was killed, Cherry ri Ben, the Wits 194 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: and they're conrecant who was seriously injured, were very active 195 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: members and so this hits us very hard. And of 196 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: course now we have to start planning on how we 197 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: move forward. I want to follow up on something you 198 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: said about your wife and feeling guilt because she survived 199 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: and was not there for the shooting. You know, Dr 200 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall is with me. I renounced like Alan's joining 201 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: us from l a the issue of survivor guilt, but 202 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: also a false sense of complacency. Dr Bethany, because I 203 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: was just thinking back on this Sunday morning. You know, 204 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: I need a lot of work, Dr Bethany, and so 205 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: I make sure that I have the twins front and 206 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: center every Sunday morning to help me in my project 207 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: call self improvement. And uh, I was just thinking about 208 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: this past Sunday, about how there were good smells coming 209 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: out of the church kitchen and everything was toasty inside 210 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: and chilly outside, and all of our church friends gathered 211 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: together early in the morning, and that feeling you feel 212 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: like everything is okay. And to have that ripped apart 213 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: in this manner by this man. As a matter of fact, 214 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: listen to this. Bethany Lage Synagogue shooter Robert Bowers grew 215 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: up in this area, attending a local high school in 216 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: recent years, leaving an unremarkable impression on his neighbors. Quiet, 217 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: though not unfriendly, they say, a truck driver who kept 218 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: odd hours. Start contrast to what we know about him. Tonight, 219 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: I saw his photo and I said, that's my neighbor. Neighbors, 220 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: say Bowers offered no hints about the bloodshed he's accused 221 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: of unleashing. Carrie Owen's was his next door neighbor for 222 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: the past two years. How upsetting is it to know 223 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: that you live next door to the guy who's been 224 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: charged in this area? Upsetting knowing that someone that had 225 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: not much hate was on the other side of my wall. 226 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: Officials suggested a possible motive in the horrific attack. There's 227 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: no indication that, uh, he's working with anyone else, and 228 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: so we have charged it and are treating it as 229 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: as a hate crime, but continue to investigate. Dr Bethany 230 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: even his neighbors were lulled into a sense of security 231 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: and complacency. Well, we all have to have a sense 232 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: of false safety to get through our day. Otherwise we 233 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: would all be anxious and panicky as we go to 234 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: school and as we go to our jobs. But you know, 235 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: I'm not so sure synagogues or churches are such a 236 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: safe place. My dad is a Baptist minister, and I 237 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: grew up in the church, and my experience is that congregants, 238 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: congregants of a church or synagogue are essentially a very good, 239 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: loving group of people, and that attracts a lot of 240 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: envy and a lot of a lot of hatred despite 241 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: what your religious persuasion is. And I'll tell you what 242 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: I mean. These mass murderers are envious. They have a 243 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 1: grudged hold against society. They feel that everybody's against them. Um. 244 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: One of the ways to look at it is that 245 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: the mass murder is an injustice collector who spends a 246 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: great deal of time feeling resentful about real or imagined 247 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: rejections and ruminating on past humiliations. He has a paranoid 248 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: world view with chronic feelings of social persecution, envy, and 249 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: grudge holding. He's tormented by the beliefs that privileged others 250 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: are enjoying life all you can eat buffet while he 251 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: must peer through the window, an outside loner, always looking 252 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: in dger Beth. And he just stopped for a moment 253 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: because you're actually giving me chills on my arms thinking 254 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: of this guy. I mean, it's all I can do 255 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: to raise the twins and work all day, work into 256 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: the night, and I don't even think about what other 257 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: people may or may not be doing. I'm just trying 258 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: to keep the bus in the middle of the road. 259 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: That you know are you hearing what she is saying 260 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: to Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study 261 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: of Hate and Extremism, is that striking a chord with 262 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: you regarding these hate crimes. Absolutely. One of the things 263 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: we know about symbolic violent perpetrators is they come in 264 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: three types, and there's a combination. The first is ideologically motivated. 265 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: Second is psychologically dangerous, and that's across the spectrum that 266 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: goes from sociopath uh to some kind of instability even 267 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: to cognitive impairment. And the third is personal benefit or revenge. 268 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: Goes right on what we've heard from our prior guests. 269 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: UM and with respect to hate crime offenders, my friends 270 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: Jack Levin and Jack McDevitt, two of the best academics 271 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: in this business, they came up with a typology and 272 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: the first is the thrill offender. UH. That's a young 273 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: person often acting in a group. UH. They're seeking peer 274 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: validation and some kind of in group identity. So the 275 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: outgroup that they're attacking doesn't really matter that much as 276 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: long as you're an outgroup, because it's for some kind 277 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: of in group bonding. The second type is the retaliatory 278 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: or defensive offender. That person might be responding to a 279 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: terror attack, or might be responding to a change in 280 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: neighborhood demographics with a new family moving in. And the 281 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: third type is the mission offender. And unlike the others 282 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: who have a switch turned on which then has the 283 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: negative stereotypes bubble to the top, you have that that 284 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: switch turned on first, either the thrill or or the 285 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: defensive or or or fearful response that the mission offender, 286 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: like the one we saw in Pittsburgh, the hardcore neo Nazi. 287 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: Uh those folks, the switch has always turned on and 288 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: they ripped resent the smallest cadreing of hate crime offenders, 289 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: but when they do act, you're the most filling, and 290 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: they tend to take up about of the rather narrow 291 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: sliver of hate crime homicide every year. Do you know 292 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: another parent or a soon to be parent and expecting 293 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: mom or dad, Please don't give them another onesie or 294 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: another toy that you know is going to end up 295 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: in the garage or at the goodwill. Give them something 296 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: that matters. And what matters the most protecting your child. 297 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: What do you love the most in the world your children? 298 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: I do, and I will do anything to protect my twins. 299 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: Go to crime stops here dot com. It is a 300 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: five part series with action information that you can use 301 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: to change your life and protect your child's life. Payments 302 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: starting at six. Give that as a gift, not another 303 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: one that you're a plastic toy. Give them something that matters. 304 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: Find out how to protect your child out and about 305 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: at the mall, at the store, at the grocery store, 306 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: in the parking lot, at home. Find out about protection 307 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online cyber security. Oh yes, 308 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: my children are online, and you better bet I'm doing 309 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: everything within my power to protect them. Payments starting six. 310 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 1: I would much rather have that than yet another plastic 311 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: baby doll, or God forbid, a toy gun just what 312 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 1: I don't want. Joined the Justice Nation. Crime stops here 313 00:21:50,280 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The calls started 314 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 1: coming in around forty minutes ago that there was an 315 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: active shooter. We were told that there were multiple possibly injured, 316 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: and that there was a shooter who was shooting outside 317 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: of the front of the building towards officers. We heard 318 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: them yell for officers to get back. We heard the 319 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: officers yelling to use their vehicles as a shield. In 320 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: order to retreat back to Murray Avenue for them to 321 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: be in a safe area. You are hearing our friend 322 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: at k d K A t V Pittsburgh, Megan Schill, 323 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: are reporting on one of the worst shootings ever in 324 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: a place of worship that has just gone down, killing eleven, 325 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: many others wounded as these people were praying they were 326 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: gunned down. I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories. Thank 327 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: you for being with us. But what do we know? 328 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: Was there a warning? What can we glean from learning 329 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: about the shooter? Listen? Authorities rated bowers apartment in the 330 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: southern Pittsburgh suburbs sweeping for any signs of explosives. Bower 331 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: social media activity also will be heavily scrutinized. He used 332 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: the social media site gab dot com and in one 333 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: post uploading a picture of three handguns. It's unclear if 334 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: they are the same guns you Saturday. Bowers also visited 335 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: this home in a nearby community so often some thought 336 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: he lived here and say he kept to himself it's sickening. 337 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: Did really is sickning? He come out and smoke and 338 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: that wouldn't be about it. There was no highs snow boys. 339 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: You are hearing from our friends at NBC that was 340 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: Ron Mott reporting. What do we know about him? We 341 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: know that he claimed the lives of Elving over pure hatred, 342 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: hatred of the Jewish community, hatred of Jews, screaming out 343 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: all Jews must die, before he unleashed a hell of 344 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: bullets to Bruce Alexander, terror expert joining us with a 345 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: career in counter terrorism, intelligence, security, homeland security for over 346 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: thirty years, also from the executive protection details of several 347 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: Cabinet members. Bruce, thank you for being with us. What 348 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: do you make of the current suggestion that armed guards 349 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: be at the synagogue? Nancy? Unfortunately, that's a uh simplistic answer, 350 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: although perhaps understandable, and these these heightened times that we 351 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: want something to to strike back with or protect ourselves with. 352 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: The reason why I say that that, unfortunately is a 353 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: limited answer, is that we identifying these particular threats and 354 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: preventing them from occurring is the desired course of action. 355 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: The armed guard is a great reactionary tool, and that 356 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: means you're confronting and you're stopping this at the doors 357 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: of the synagogue. The challenger there is this today is 358 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: one gunman. But what do you do when you have 359 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: a Columbine type of situation where you've got a pair 360 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: of gunmen who come in and attack a synagogue or 361 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: another soft target. The reality is that while there may 362 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: be a place for armed security there, we need layers 363 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: of protection, defense and depth that seeks to identify us 364 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: that's far out hardened the target, meaning the synagogue at 365 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: the doors. And then internally we've got policies and procedures 366 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: that all of them work in concert. Relying on a 367 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: lone arm security officer assuming their train to the standards 368 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: the counter and active shooter means you also got a 369 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: single point of failure uh there that that and the 370 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: determined restaurant could overcome. So it may be part of 371 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: the debate, it may be part of the solution, but 372 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: it's not the only solution to John Paschinski joining me 373 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: a member of the congregation that was under a deadly attack. 374 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: His wife scheduled to be there that morning, but as 375 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: fate would have it, she did not attend. Their friends 376 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: were victims of the synagogue shooting. Johnny, would be very 377 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: difficult for me to have armed guards posted at our 378 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: place of worship. I appreciate the good intentions but that 379 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: would be I don't know what to think. How's the 380 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: congregation responding to that? Well, we have them disgusting yet 381 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: and I cannot speak for the congregation, but personally, having 382 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: armed guards as a routine matter to at a place 383 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: of worship is anathema for the goal of what occurs 384 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: inside Our synagogues are moths and our churches those are 385 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: places of peace. And to say that only people can 386 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: only engage in the peaceful activity of communing with their 387 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: God in the way that they choose has to be 388 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: under armed God guard is a very poor statement about 389 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: the condition of this country. What we need to do 390 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: is figure out a way to ratchet down the type 391 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: of rahetheric and the environment that makes people like this 392 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: gunman feel empowered and uh and able to go to 393 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: do these actives. We have to start teaching tolerance, not hate. 394 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: Most of us do that, but it has to be 395 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: more of a societal thing. We have to stop the 396 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: killing and the mental attitude that creates in us versus 397 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: them mentality. Well, you know what, I agree with you completely, 398 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: but I wonder is that possible. I mean, murder and 399 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: hatred goes all the way back to Kine and Abel 400 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: and for absolutely no reason. There doesn't have to be 401 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: a reason. And uh aren't Harris investigative reporter. You and 402 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: I have been together in so many murder trials. We 403 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: know that very often we say why, why? Why did 404 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: this happen? A lot of times there's not a why. 405 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: Hold on art quick question to Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, 406 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet 407 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: on Amazon. J Scott, right now, what is the purpose 408 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: of the FORENS collection of evidence? I mean, I know 409 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: this guy is going to go to trial, but there 410 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: are eyewitnesses, there are his posts on gab dot com, 411 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: which is a whole another can of worms, Bethany, but 412 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: there's overwhelming evance. So what are they doing right now, 413 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: Joe Scott? They're going over the scene with a fine toothcomb, 414 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: documenting his movements. But we can do that relative to, say, 415 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: for instance, the disbursement of spent ammunition, those concentrations to 416 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: those areas. They're also reconstructing the actual shooting itself, the 417 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: dynamics of the shooting, the trajectories of the bullets. And 418 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Nancy, the reason we 419 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: spend so much time at the scene working scenes. Even 420 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: though this guy has been caught the threat at this moment, 421 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: Tom has been you know, negated. He is going to 422 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: go to trial. We we can't pick and choose those 423 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: cases which we will and will not do thoroughly. We 424 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: have to cover everything because no telling what kind of 425 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: questions will come up in the event that you know, 426 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: this thing is going to go to trial, and I 427 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: suspect that it will, well, we know this, We know 428 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: that there will be a trial. We know that it 429 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: will probably be after a long period of time because 430 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: it's going to be a complicated case forensically. But what 431 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: do we know about this guy? To Aunt Harris, Emmy 432 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: Award winning investigative reporter with Crime online dot com, aren't 433 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: what do we know about him other than he talked 434 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: incessantly on gab dot com. I was thinking about gab 435 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: dot com when Dr Bethany said he was a standout 436 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: in his community or trying to be Is that his community? 437 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: And why did they allow the hate speech? Number one? 438 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: But more so, why didn't they report it? This was 439 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: not a Facebook or Twitter. Atmosphere is a website that 440 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: was set up by defectors from that world, so that 441 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: people like white supremacists and others arrangement folks they don't discriminate, 442 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: can say anything they want basically on this place. And 443 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: so he felt that he was free to unleash his litery, 444 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: all his hate from his venom, as a many other 445 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: in the white supremacy movements that do online in their 446 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: little conclaves around and that was his place of expression. 447 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: I was just getting ready for the day and I 448 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: heard the gunfire. I heard, um, what sounded like a 449 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: semi automatic weapon, and I hollered down to Ken. He 450 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: thought it might be construction um. But by the time 451 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: I got downstairs and started to get my kids downstairs, 452 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: there were already police officers on the scene and they 453 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: were starting to draw their guns, and so I got 454 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: everybody down into the basement. We've heard five repetitive shots. 455 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: I stepped up for which I heard three additional shots, 456 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: and within the minutes police started to arrive. Police started 457 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: to park in front of our house and they were 458 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: shielding themselves with their car, so we realized the situation 459 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: was pretty serious. You're hearing from the neighbors there in 460 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: the count near the congregation where Loving lost their lives 461 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: in the last day because of hatred straight out to 462 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho analysts out of l a 463 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: Way and Dr Bethany Well, this screen had very poor 464 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: social relationships. You know, I've been watching all the coverage, 465 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: and you really know how to put perfume on a 466 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: pig poor personal relationships. He was a nut that lived 467 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: in isolation and was completely consumed with hatred his pretend 468 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: friends were online on dab dot com that I guess 469 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,719 Speaker 1: would respond to his hatred that he's spewed about Jews. 470 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: You are absolutely right, Nancy. I guess where I was 471 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: going with this is that people keep connecting this to 472 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: the politics in our country and politics aside. There's an 473 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: individual psychology that leads to this kind of crime and 474 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: and there's nobody to blame by him. And maybe I 475 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: have been exacerbated by hatred in our country. But this 476 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: guy was a loner. He was envious, He had this 477 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: perceived sense of injustice. He had a pathological chip on 478 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: his shoulder. I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that 479 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: he was rejected socially many areas of his life other 480 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: than on this stupid GAB platform. Perpetrators gather on these 481 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: social media sites, just like you know pedophiles gather on 482 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: these sites. I mean, people with certain types of pathologies 483 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: tend to cluster together. And this gab site is somebody 484 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: as a site that's going to to gather men with 485 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: these types of pathologies. But this guy was envious. What 486 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: more beautiful places there than a church, People gathering to worship, 487 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: enjoying each other, everyone from a six year old baby 488 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: or i'm sorry, a six day old baby to a 489 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: ninety seven year old woman enjoying their relationships with each other. 490 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: And at the very very heart of it all, he 491 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: went in in some grandiose, terroristic type of way to 492 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: destroy that which he cannot have in his own life, 493 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: and it's love. Destroying the love that people have with 494 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: each other. He couldn't take it, and he took amount. Today, 495 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Synagogue survivors are describing how a hero rabbi 496 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: pushed them into a storage closet and save their lives, 497 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: turning out the lights of the gunman would not see 498 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: them when he came stalking by looking for more victims. 499 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: It was Rabbi Jonathan Pearlman who pushed four congregates into 500 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: a closet when Bowers opened fire. He was leading the 501 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: newl Congregation in the basement of the Tree of Life 502 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: Synagogue that day. The fatally opened the closet door then 503 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: went back into the room. What happened in those minutes 504 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: they were hiding in the closet only they can tell 505 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: us that, But we do know that zach Weiss father 506 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: was inside the synagogue. My father was filling in assisting 507 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: the rabbi doing various parts of the service. He was 508 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: under the weather, but both were present at the service. 509 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: Just the first initial sound was described as a car crash, 510 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: just a very loud noise, but there were a couple 511 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: of congregants that investigated just to see if that was 512 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: something else. Maybe a senior citizen had fallen, maybe a 513 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: hard piece of equipment fell, So they went down. But 514 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: the next multiple sounds were they were they were unmistakable, 515 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: and from there it was treated as an active shooter situation. 516 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: And with the layout of the Tree of Life or 517 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: less same congregation, there are actually three synagogues that take 518 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: up space, and there were actually three services simultaneously, there 519 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: was not a risk. As previously reported. There were three 520 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: separate services that were going on at the exact same time. 521 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: So from the Tree of Life aspects, since that sre 522 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: my father is a member of they were able to 523 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: protect and go. Some of them were able to hide 524 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: for cover, some were were not were unable to do so. 525 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: They had just started to pray when they heard that 526 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: crashing sound that Zach Wise was describing to NBC. They 527 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: had a crashing e stapt from upstairs. They look out 528 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,399 Speaker 1: the door to see a body on the staircase. We 529 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: also know that the synagogue shooter do in court. Our 530 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 1: hair is joining me. Why why is he in court? 531 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: This is the first time that we will see him 532 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: and the judges, and I cannot imagine joining me. Is 533 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: John Paschinski, a member of the congregation. Brian Levin and 534 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: just got Morgan, Dr. Bethany Marshall, Art Harris, and Bruce Alexander. 535 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 1: Bruce Alexander. I mean, I was speaking with John about 536 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: stopping the hatred. But the reality is hate is with us, 537 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: and people act on that hate. I don't think we 538 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: are ever. It pains me to say it, but the 539 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: devil is here. He is alive and working through people 540 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: like this shooter. And I don't think we're going to 541 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,320 Speaker 1: get rid of him. All we can do is fight him. Now. 542 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: I know that a lot of you on this panel 543 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: are way too lofty and too much of an intellectual 544 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: to admit there is a devil and there is evil, 545 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: But I'm putting it out there. So you tell me, 546 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: Bruce Alexander, you're the terror expert, why are we gonna do? 547 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: Because I don't want to hear this again. I don't 548 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: want to know this happened again. And so here's what 549 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna do. Unfortunately, the reality of it, because I 550 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: think you spoke to it, evil exists, and evil is 551 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: going to exist, and evil is going to continue to 552 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: exist in and in this in this lifetime. For motives, 553 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: none of us can can understand. The reality is is 554 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 1: this first and foremost, we must accept that these are 555 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: the times that we live in. Uh. It doesn't matter 556 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: how we got here, the source of that, and you're 557 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: absolutely right your previous comment very debatable how we got here, 558 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: but from the reality is we're here. So what we 559 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: have to do is learn to accept um that we 560 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: live in these particular times of sad indictment. The best 561 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: thing from a security standpoint that we can accept in 562 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: terms of addressing the situation is understanding that we're going 563 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: to mitigate this. Uh that that's that's the desired outcome. 564 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: Because for every one of these psychopaths, no matter what 565 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: their ideology is, motive, whatever creatures are in their minds 566 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: in the dark of the night. Um, it's not gonna 567 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: be this guy, It's gonna be another guy. You know. 568 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: I I'm reminded of the similarities between this and the 569 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: Birmingham bombing, you know, forty years ago. Uh, no guns there, 570 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: but a determined person attackers here saying bent ideology, used 571 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: explosives here. So what we've got to do is understand 572 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: we've got to mitigate this, but we've got to have 573 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: a response. We don't have to accept this. There is 574 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 1: a big difference. I'm not saying capitulate, but we have 575 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: to understand that. Let's build a response, active response that 576 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: involves all the stakeholders here. Look, this is a larger 577 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: problem than um just what manifested here. We need to 578 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: have all stakeholders, whether it's law enforcement, whether it's the 579 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: the FBI, whether it's the guests that you have on 580 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 1: the show today, whether it's it's an academic, the psychological standpoint, 581 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: the first responder, and of course the community, the congregant 582 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: uh that have to be involved in coming together with practical, 583 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: workable solutions. Yeah. And to Brian I I hear you bruise. 584 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: To Brian Levin direct with the Center for the Study 585 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: of Hate and Extremism, Brian, I think the tolerance for 586 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: hate talk for hate speech that is waiting to bubble over. 587 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: I mean, early Christians had to meet in secret or 588 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: they would be killed. Jews to this day in parts 589 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: of the world meet in secret. They had to hide 590 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: during the World War. Is that what we're coming to. 591 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: We have to have armed guards or we have to 592 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: meet in secret to worship? Brian, I hope God. But 593 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: and well, well, I think that the on guard answer 594 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 1: is a bit simplistic. It it may be part of 595 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: of a solution that includes many fascisms. What were your 596 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: learning in the last hours. Prosecutors confirmed they will seek 597 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: the death penalty for the synagogue shooter. As court appearance happening, 598 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 1: He's facing twenty nine counts, twenty two of them carry 599 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: the death penalty. Nothing We'll bring back these victims. Nancy 600 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,720 Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,