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Speaker 1: In the last hours revelations in the Jeffrey Epstein child's

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking allegations. As we wait for his pimp, his

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Speaker 1: madam social like Delaine Maxwell to go to trial, we

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Speaker 1: are now learning she's not the only one with blame.

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Speaker 1: There's plenty to go around. Is it true that three

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Speaker 1: years before charges were brought, federal prosecutors refused to investigate

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Speaker 1: claims of child's sex molestation? Did they give Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: and Gilaine Maxwell a free pass to continue molesting girls

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Speaker 1: for three more years before charges were brought? Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to this. He said that he could get me

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Speaker 1: into the Fashion Institute of Technology, and that he knew

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Speaker 1: that he could get me straight in, he could pay

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Speaker 1: for my schooling, and I know that they didn't even

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Speaker 1: phone if I t that was never going to happen.

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Speaker 1: They went out of their way to play games to

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Speaker 1: make you believe. I mean, they helped me on my essay.

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Speaker 1: It was just all a big lie and just complete manipulation.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing Sarah Ransom the Miami Herald just crack

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Speaker 1: this thing wide open. And according to reports, it was

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Speaker 1: only because Epstein was busted by the Miami Herald, not

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Speaker 1: prosecutors who sat by and twiddled their thoughts for three years,

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Speaker 1: but only when it became public when they were outed

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Speaker 1: having done nothing since epstein sweetheart deal allowing Epstein to

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Speaker 1: go on to molest how many more young girls. Only

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Speaker 1: when the Miami Herald busted them did charges suddenly emerge.

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Speaker 1: With me as an all star panel to try to

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Speaker 1: make sense of it all. First of all, Jessica Pride,

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Speaker 1: as attorney with the Pride Law Firm with me. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Teresa Gill, professor's psychology and Psychotherapists, author of Women who

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Speaker 1: Were Sex Abused as Children, Investigator Karen L. Smith for Expert,

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Speaker 1: Lecturer University Florida and host of Shattered Souls podcast. But

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Speaker 1: first to Charlie Lankston, editor at Daily Mail and you

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Speaker 1: can find her on Insta at Charlie Charlie. This is very,

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Speaker 1: very disturbing. It's one thing to think of a millionaire

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Speaker 1: pedophile Jeffrey Epstein molesting girls in his mansion, which was

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Speaker 1: just torn down by the way, thank god. It's another

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Speaker 1: thing to think of Guillaine Maxwell, his socialite girlfriend, egging

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Speaker 1: the girls on, standing by smiling as he molested them,

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Speaker 1: sometimes taking part according to them. It's a whole another

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Speaker 1: ball game to think federal prosecutors sat on their thumbs

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Speaker 1: doing nothing. Isn't it trend, Charlie that they were given

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Speaker 1: information that Guillaine Maxwell to nude photos of a young girl,

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Speaker 1: nude photos, explicit photos, and gave them to Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: as a birthday gift, and even with that knowledge, they

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Speaker 1: did nothing. What happened, I mean, they did absolutely nothing.

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Speaker 1: And what we're learning now is the extent of this

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Speaker 1: sweet Heeart deal that they struck with Epstein that effectively

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Speaker 1: prevented him from having to face any federal charges whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: They punished the wait, Charlie, Charlie, hold on, that's what

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Speaker 1: it purported to do. And let me understand something now.

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Speaker 1: You are talking about the Sweetheart deal that occurred around

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven down in Florida. It was first

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Speaker 1: a federal case in the FED somehow kicked it down

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Speaker 1: to a state court where he pled guilty to two

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Speaker 1: counts of soliciting miners for prostitution and was basically given

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Speaker 1: a slap on the wrist. That was in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven. Correct, Yes, that's correct. Okay, I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: a two thousand, sixteen meeting nine years later. Okay, all

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Speaker 1: these years, he's still molesting girls. Hey, you know what.

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Speaker 1: You don't believe me, take a listen to this more

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Speaker 1: from the Miami Herald. But when you in, you can't

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Speaker 1: get out. That's it. Like when you are in, you

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Speaker 1: are in, and you are in deep. If I didn't

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Speaker 1: do what he said, he would make sure that I

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Speaker 1: would not be working in New York. And I was terrified.

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Speaker 1: I was so I'm still afraid for my life and

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Speaker 1: I was. I was so scared. I just think I disassociated.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, okay, um, this is happening. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: what do you do? I mean, like I remember thinking, okay,

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Speaker 1: I've never done this before. Not where am I? What's

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Speaker 1: going on? I went to free and I kind of

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Speaker 1: go into freeze disassociation mode. It would make anyone second

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Speaker 1: guess themselves and say, what the manipulation that's happening, the

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Speaker 1: exploitation that's happening is damaging. But I must be the

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Speaker 1: crazy one because everyone around knows what's going on and

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Speaker 1: is allowing it to happen, and is enabling him and

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Speaker 1: is playing into it. You are hearing our friend at

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Speaker 1: Miami Herald, Sarah Ransom. You're also hearing Marjique Shortuny and

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Speaker 1: Bradley Edward speaking Charlie Links in one moment. Let me

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Speaker 1: go now to Teresa gil PhD, Professor Psychology and psychotherapist, Doctor,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I've had a lot

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Speaker 1: of child molestation victims and rape victims, but particularly child

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Speaker 1: molestation victims state that during the molestation they seem to

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Speaker 1: quote disassociate from their body. What does that mean? So

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Speaker 1: it happens to the body, and it happens without your control.

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Speaker 1: When you're in a situation that feels overwhelming and feels

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Speaker 1: like life and death, your body does two things. It

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Speaker 1: goes into fight flight. But if you're forteen fifting of sixteen,

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Speaker 1: when you're on an island and nobody else is around you,

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Speaker 1: or you don't have people who are going to stand

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Speaker 1: by you that you see as allies, it is not

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Speaker 1: a safe thing to go fight flight. So what happens

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Speaker 1: is you just collapse. And with that collapse of physiological

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Speaker 1: signs like you go pale, you stop breathing, you shut down,

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Speaker 1: and you actually separate from reality. Like one woman said

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Speaker 1: when she was on the plane and they were going

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Speaker 1: to the island and they were having sex on the plane.

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Speaker 1: She just pretended like she looked around her, everybody was

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Speaker 1: acting as if things were normal, and she pretended she

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Speaker 1: didn't see it, and she fell asleep. And that would

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Speaker 1: be a typical response to somebody who's overwhelmed and trying

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Speaker 1: to manage the experience that they're going through. I've had

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Speaker 1: adult victims of child molestation describe what you just said

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Speaker 1: with me as doctor Teresa gil and she's the author

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Speaker 1: of Women Who Were Sex that Used as children, Mothering, resilience,

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Speaker 1: protecting the next generation. This is her specialty. I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what it meant as just being a trial lawyer,

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Speaker 1: doctor Gill, but I noticed that time after time after time,

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Speaker 1: adult victims of child molestation would recount what happened to

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Speaker 1: them as a child, and they said to completely, I

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Speaker 1: know this isn't the right phraseology come out of their bodies,

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Speaker 1: or they would the only good word is disassociate from

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Speaker 1: what was happening to them, And they literally can come

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Speaker 1: out and a body the money time filty that they're

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Speaker 1: watching it. Yes, I was going to tell you that,

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Speaker 1: doctor Gil, but I thought it sounded far fetched. They

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Speaker 1: have told me, and not just one but many. So

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Speaker 1: it's not like one little girl or one little boy

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Speaker 1: dreamed this up that they felt they could see from

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Speaker 1: above them, like up in the ceiling or at the

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Speaker 1: door to the room, what was happening. They were that disassociated.

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Speaker 1: And you're hearing that here from this Epstein victim being molested.

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Speaker 1: She felt she disassociated from her body. And we hear

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Speaker 1: that over and over and over. But now to just

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Speaker 1: rub salt in the wood mound? Is it true? And

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Speaker 1: I think it is. And I'll tell you why. Federal prosecutors,

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Speaker 1: after his sweetheart deal in two thousand and seven, fast

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Speaker 1: for twenty sixteen, he had been molesting all those nine years.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors are told what's happening in the Southern District of

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Speaker 1: New York. Epstein is still molesting girls and they did nothing.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: a huge travesty of justice, and it pains me to

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Speaker 1: point the finger at prosecutors who are there to protect us.

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Speaker 1: There are notes, Charlie Lanks soon joining me from Daily Mail.

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Speaker 1: There are notes that existed from that twenty sixteen meeting,

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Speaker 1: signed by Assistant US Attorney A k which I believe

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Speaker 1: stands for Amanda Kramer. That she had this meeting was

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Speaker 1: some of the victim's lawyers, and she put in a

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Speaker 1: call to the FBI down of Florida, and they didn't

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Speaker 1: call back, so she dropped the case. She did nothing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's the most shocking thing to me,

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Speaker 1: is that the excuse for not pursuing a case was

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Speaker 1: simply because she didn't hear back from the FBI in Florida,

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Speaker 1: and apparently that meant that they had no problem with

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Speaker 1: how the case had been handled way back in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and seven. To my mind, not receiving a call

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Speaker 1: from someone and failing to try and get in contact again,

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Speaker 1: that's nothing in comparison with the evidence that she was

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Speaker 1: being told about. She had three lawyers not only telling

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Speaker 1: her about the abuse that Virginia Roberts said she'd suffered

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Speaker 1: at the hands of Epstein, but she also had evidence

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Speaker 1: that he had conspirators helping him with this abuse, That

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Speaker 1: there was evidence in the form of nude photographs that

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Speaker 1: had been taken, and that this had been going on,

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Speaker 1: as you said, for nine years after a sweetheart deal

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Speaker 1: was struck in Florida. So the fact that a case

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Speaker 1: was not brought after this meeting is absolutely astounding to me.

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Speaker 1: I want to let you hear what exactly these molestation

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Speaker 1: victims are saying. None of this would have come to

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Speaker 1: light if it had not been for the Miami Herald

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Speaker 1: Listen Gilain Maxwell was Jeffrey's right hand woman. Leslie graffs, So,

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Speaker 1: Sarah kellins, they like, it's this network which is just

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Speaker 1: mind blowing, and they're so good. They are so they

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Speaker 1: are like master my manipulators. And that's that's what really

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Speaker 1: upsets me. When you know, I've had one or two

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Speaker 1: people say, you know, I should have known better. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think they've fooled the entire world. So of

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Speaker 1: course they're going to manipulate as a twenty two year old,

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Speaker 1: he's never been here. I was here for two weeks.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know a single soul. But still, because I

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Speaker 1: was over aged and my twin tiers, I should have

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Speaker 1: known better. I didn't know better. I was on my own,

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Speaker 1: and then I've fallen to Jeffrey's trip. So it's just abuse, abuse, abuse, abuse,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't my fault now, and that's what he

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Speaker 1: preys on. It looks for people that are vulnerable and

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Speaker 1: hers and of coming and broken and broken and broken people.

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Speaker 1: And he promises he'll fix you. Yeah, and instead he

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Speaker 1: breaks you even more. I know, yeah, I know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he broke me pretty bad. He's good at that. You

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Speaker 1: were hearing Sarah Man's men Virginia Roberts Geoffrey an outspoken

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Speaker 1: victim Jeffrey Epstein's allegedly Now she is telling you her age, then,

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Speaker 1: but what about the young girls he managed to lure

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Speaker 1: into his trap? Joining me a very well known sex

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Speaker 1: assault attorney the Pride Law Firm. Joining me is Jessica

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Speaker 1: Pride Jessica. That is a common theme that I have

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Speaker 1: heard from rape victims and child molestation victims. They always

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Speaker 1: think it's their fault. Did you hear what she said?

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Speaker 1: I didn't know anybody, I didn't know really what was happening,

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Speaker 1: But hey, it was my fault because I went with him. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: that's what survivors do, is they blame themselves, and they

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Speaker 1: recount the steps and what they did or didn't do,

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Speaker 1: and try to justify or figure out how they somehow

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Speaker 1: got themselves into that situation. But survivors need to remember

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Speaker 1: to put the blame where the blame belongs, and that's

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Speaker 1: what the perpetrators, and in this case, it's with Epstein

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Speaker 1: and Jesselen, Maxwell and all his conspirators that helped him

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Speaker 1: abuse children for over a decade. I want to go

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Speaker 1: back to Charlie Lenkson joining me. Charlie has been on

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Speaker 1: the story from the very beginning. She is a senior

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Speaker 1: editor at Daily Mail. Charlie, we know the name of

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Speaker 1: the assistant US attorney who held that twenty sixteen mating.

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Speaker 1: Her initials are in the notes that were taken that day.

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Speaker 1: She claims that the appointed US attorney from the Southern

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Speaker 1: District of New York. Let's see that would have been

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, it would have still been appointed by

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Speaker 1: Barack Obama. I believe was Preet Barrara. I think that

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Speaker 1: was the US attorney in the Southern District of New

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Speaker 1: York who made a big name for himself going after

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Speaker 1: Wall Street anyone that he perceived was a evildoer in

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Speaker 1: Wall Street. He was also known as the Showman, apparently

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Speaker 1: loved the limelight. Is it true that that was the

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Speaker 1: appointed US attorney in the Southern District of New York

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Speaker 1: at the time this meeting took place, I believe so. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Now people are saying the US attorney had no idea

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Speaker 1: what was going on. But let me circle back to

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Speaker 1: jes sic a pride. Jessica. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: ever worked in a DA's office or in a public

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Speaker 1: defender's office, but I can tell you this. When you

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Speaker 1: have a high profile case, for instance, a millionaire accused

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Speaker 1: of molesting a string of little girls and a stinking

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Speaker 1: deal out of Florida where the guy got to walk free. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing you tell your boss before

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Speaker 1: you just tossed in the trash band right a one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent. But his boss had been silencing the survivor

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Speaker 1: since two thousand and seven when they decided to enter

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Speaker 1: into this non prosecution agreement and file it under seal.

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Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, I know, you know how hard it

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Speaker 1: is to get a case filed under seal, or anything

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Speaker 1: filed under seal for that matter. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: they had a non prosecution agreement back in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven saying we're not going to file federal charges

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Speaker 1: in Florida and instead we're going to kick this down

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Speaker 1: to the state court and allow them to do this

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Speaker 1: sweetheart deal. It was insane. And not only did they

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Speaker 1: create this deal, they did it without consulting the survivors.

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Speaker 1: How as a matter of fact, on Jessica Pride, you

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Speaker 1: just hit a nerve, Charlie Langston, isn't it true? This

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Speaker 1: sweetheart deal in Florida? And we're talking about a meeting

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Speaker 1: in New York in twenty sixteen where prosecutors turned a

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Speaker 1: blind eye and allowed Epstein and Maxwell to continue molesting

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Speaker 1: little girls for three more years before the Miami Herald

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Speaker 1: broke story and they got shamed, all right, that was

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Speaker 1: in New York. But the sweetheart deal went down in Florida.

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Speaker 1: And isn't it true, Charlie? They took the deal in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. But when one of the victims

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Speaker 1: called to find out what was happening with the case

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, the victim and I believe

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Speaker 1: that victom's name was Courtney Wilde, was told the investigations

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Speaker 1: still ongoing. They had no idea they had done a

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Speaker 1: sweetheart deal. They kept it a secret. You know what,

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Speaker 1: You got to keep something a secret unless it's a

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Speaker 1: surprise party. They're something probably very wrong with your secret. Well,

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Speaker 1: and what is most horrifying to me is that these

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Speaker 1: women who were trying to get justice and trying to

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Speaker 1: bring to light the horrific crimes that they had suffered,

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Speaker 1: they were still given hope. They were told the investigation

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Speaker 1: is ongoing, when actually all hope that they had of

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Speaker 1: trying to get justice against Epstein that had been thrown

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Speaker 1: away by prosecutors in Florida who were then telling the women, Oh, no,

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Speaker 1: don't worry, we're still working on it. Please still keep

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Speaker 1: speaking to us. We'll keep you in the loop. And

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Speaker 1: that was a lie. So not only did these victims

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Speaker 1: not get the justice that they quite frankly deserved, but

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Speaker 1: they were also spoon fed lies by prosecutors, having already

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Speaker 1: gone through unspeakable trauma for so many years. I just

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Speaker 1: think that there are so many levels of feelings for

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Speaker 1: these poor women, and I don't know, honestly whether any

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Speaker 1: justice can really be stuffed to them after all that

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Speaker 1: they've been through. The young girl victim that was lied

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Speaker 1: to and told the investigation was ongoing after there had

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Speaker 1: really already been a secret deal a year before, and

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Speaker 1: nobody would tell the girl victims her name, Courtney Wild.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear our cut ten. This is

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Speaker 1: about Courtney and you're hearing ABC Nightlines. Tom Lamas listen.

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Speaker 1: I was fourteen, I had braces on, I brought by

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Speaker 1: somebody else. We go up the stairs, We're shown how

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Speaker 1: to set up the massage table everything else, and we

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Speaker 1: were just massaging them. And then after about thirty minutes

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Speaker 1: of that, he asked the girl that I was with

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Speaker 1: to go wait downstairs. When she left, you know, he

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Speaker 1: asked me to get comfortable to take my clothes off,

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Speaker 1: that I could leave my brone panties on. So I

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Speaker 1: did that, and he just wanted me to like stand

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Speaker 1: next to him as he like you know, touched me

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that as he masturbated. And then that

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Speaker 1: was that. Yeah, that was that. You are hearing the

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Speaker 1: voice of Coordiney Wild speaking out just fourteen years old,

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Speaker 1: when she was recruited to go massage a grown man

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Speaker 1: with gray hair, Jeffrey Epstein, a multi millionaire. She gets there,

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Speaker 1: he says the other girl away, asked her to take

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Speaker 1: her clothes off and then basically fondles her or genitals

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Speaker 1: while he masturbates. There's really no nice way to say that.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Now listen to this, Charlie likes.

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Speaker 1: In the last days, a court has ruled against Courtney

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Speaker 1: and other victims, even though they say they quote sympathize

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Speaker 1: with them. Courtney Wilde was one of Epstein's numerous child

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Speaker 1: victims who filed a lawsuit against the prosecution. That lawsuit

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Speaker 1: filed in two thousand and eight, alleging that their plea

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Speaker 1: deal that let Epstey walk free and continue to molest

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Speaker 1: little girls violated the Victims Rights Act because they never

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Speaker 1: told the victims. Under the Crime Victims Rights Act, victims

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Speaker 1: are supposed to know when a plea deal is going down.

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Speaker 1: They not only, according to the girls, didn't tell them

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Speaker 1: when the deal was going down, they also lied about it.

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Speaker 1: And now, in another stunning blow to these girl victims,

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Speaker 1: they court rules they can't sue. It's just almost too

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Speaker 1: much to take in, Charlie. I mean, it's just horrific.

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Speaker 1: And what is really tragic for me is that the

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Speaker 1: judge in this most recent appeals case effectively said, I

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Speaker 1: believe that you have been wronged by prosecutors. I believe

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Speaker 1: that what went down was unacceptable and not only did

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Speaker 1: you face unspeakable horrors at the hands of Epstein, but

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Speaker 1: you then were failed by the law. However, the judge

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Speaker 1: in this specific case effectively said, in order to follow

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Speaker 1: the law myself, I cannot grant you a win in

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Speaker 1: this case because legally, because federal charges were never filed

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Speaker 1: against Epstein, the Criminal Victims' Rights Act does not give

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Speaker 1: Courtney any protections whatsoever. Well, you go to a shrink judge,

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Speaker 1: ycent Gil doudgor Gil, you know, and just a trial lawyer.

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Speaker 1: You're the psychologist. But I know what I've seen, and

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Speaker 1: I know what happens to rape and child molestation victims,

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Speaker 1: be they a boy or a girl, to grown women

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Speaker 1: that are raped, they're never the same. Yes, they go

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Speaker 1: about their life, they may get married, they may have

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Speaker 1: a family, may have a great job, but you're never

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Speaker 1: the same. It affects you the rest of your life,

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Speaker 1: how you view relationships, whether you can never have sex again,

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Speaker 1: how you really just see the world. You are a

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Speaker 1: victim from then on and there's no turning back. How

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Speaker 1: much more can these victims take doctor guilt? They were

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Speaker 1: molested by Epstein Elaine Maxwell. According to them, Lord there

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Speaker 1: Am and even took part in the molestations, stood by

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Speaker 1: smiling while they were molested. Then they have a secret

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Speaker 1: deal done behind their back by Florida prosecutors. Then they

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Speaker 1: take the case to the Southern District of New York

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Speaker 1: US attorneys appointed by the president, and they do nothing.

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Speaker 1: They do nothing. Doctor Gil, what more can be done

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Speaker 1: to these victims? Well, I think it's interesting because when

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Speaker 1: I think about their victimization, their victimization started with their childhood.

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Speaker 1: So when I bring sometimes my survivors want to bring

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Speaker 1: in their perpetrator and they want to ask their perpetrator

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Speaker 1: why me, And they think that the perpetrator is going

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Speaker 1: to say, because somehow you were defective, somehow you were bad,

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Speaker 1: you were terrible, you deserved it. And every time the

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Speaker 1: perpetrator says, because as you were the most vulnerable, and

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Speaker 1: that's why I picked you. And when Epstein and his

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Speaker 1: his people who supported him in getting these women and

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Speaker 1: enticing them and recruiting them and grooming them, they knew

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Speaker 1: that the women that they were picking were working class

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Speaker 1: and poor. They knew they came from troubled homes. They

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Speaker 1: knew that they were vulnerable, and that they were young,

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Speaker 1: and they were in financial need, and they were unprotected.

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Speaker 1: And so already you have people with a history of

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Speaker 1: real vulnerability and lack of support and protection, and when

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Speaker 1: they fight to be heard and the system undermines them

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Speaker 1: and pulled the rug out from underneath them, then they're

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Speaker 1: being revictimized and they being resilenced, and they're going back

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Speaker 1: into a place where I have no control, powerless, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing that I can do, and that's not you know,

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Speaker 1: it's an er guil on this justice. I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: verbalize this feeling they must be having when you become

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Speaker 1: a crime victim and such a brutal way to be

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Speaker 1: raped by Jeffrey Epstein and you're just a younger, you're fourteen,

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Speaker 1: it's one year older than my daughter Lucy. Then you

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Speaker 1: live with all that shame, You feel like it's your fault,

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Speaker 1: the whole brutality of it, the sense of helplessness sticks

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Speaker 1: with you the rest of your life. But then you

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Speaker 1: think you have a champion that is going to represent you,

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Speaker 1: that is going to get justice, and your faith and

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Speaker 1: your hope is renewed, that someone cares about you, and

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Speaker 1: then you find out they basically crap on you. They

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Speaker 1: do nothing. They do nothing, I mean, you know, wash

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Speaker 1: their hands like conscious pilot and look the other way

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Speaker 1: and let an unspeakable unjustice go forward. I mean, that

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Speaker 1: has got to be soul breaking. Guys, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: one victim, Courtney Wild, who actually sued the prosecution and

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Speaker 1: got turned down by the Court of Appeals. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to more from our friends at ABC's Nightline. Lacarta

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Speaker 1: says she was just sixteen years old when she was

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Speaker 1: recruited by another high school girl to give Epstein a massage.

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Speaker 1: He kept saying it God, like God, You're just so

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Speaker 1: beautiful and sexy and gorgeous, and it was making me

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Speaker 1: feel really uncomfortable, Lacarta telling investigators in a police interview

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Speaker 1: at the time Epstein sexually assaulted her then and igot

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Speaker 1: asking me go low and kind of happening at the

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Speaker 1: moment about Epstein's accused of praying on vulnerable girls. And

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Speaker 1: I remember just like feeling so disgusting and shameful. But

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Speaker 1: and then the same way, you know, I had two

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars that I didn't have before, so it was

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Speaker 1: like it was just a tough pillow to swallow, Wild

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Speaker 1: saying she became part of Epstein's alleged recruiting scheme, soon

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Speaker 1: winding up in over read. He asked me if I

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Speaker 1: could bring him girls, then for every girl I could

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Speaker 1: bring him, he would give me two hundred dollars for them.

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Speaker 1: It's a burden that she says she's carried with her

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Speaker 1: for more than a decade. I just hold so much

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Speaker 1: guil for ever having somebody do that, or introducing that

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Speaker 1: to somebody's life. It's almost too much to take in.

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Speaker 1: So back to Charlie Langston on the story from the

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Speaker 1: very beginning. She's a senior editor at dailymail dot com.

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Speaker 1: Charlie is kind of like a Ponzi scheme where he

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Speaker 1: would actually molest a girl, a young girl. I believe

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Speaker 1: Courtney Wilde was fourteen when he started molesting her. Then

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Speaker 1: he would pay her, and he knew these girls were

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Speaker 1: from working class families that needed money, that had nothing.

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Speaker 1: He would pay her two hundred dollars per girl that

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Speaker 1: she would bring to him. So you're basically getting children

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Speaker 1: to entice other children to get raped by Jeffrey Epstein

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Speaker 1: and then they'll get two hundred dollars. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: used to prosecute cases where drug lords and their lieutenants

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Speaker 1: would use juveniles to sell drugs heroin, crack cocaine myth

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Speaker 1: out on the street, because they knew juveniles would do

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Speaker 1: a month in juvie jail if that they would use

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Speaker 1: children to do their dirty work. And here he's using

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Speaker 1: his own molestation victims to lure in other girls. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's the devil. I mean, it's the most disgusting

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Speaker 1: pyramid scheme. I think I've had a hud and what

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Speaker 1: we've addressed, and I think the really key point here

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Speaker 1: is Epstein prayed on the most vulnerable people he could find.

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Speaker 1: He sent from what we understand, Gelain Maxwell out to

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Speaker 1: find the top level of girls who he would then

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Speaker 1: use to recruit others. And the really sickening thing from

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Speaker 1: you know, what we've heard from victims is that they

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Speaker 1: knew deep down that what was happening to them was wrong.

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Speaker 1: But here they were being paid enormous amounts of money,

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Speaker 1: being told that by partaking in these disgusting acts, they

427
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: would be given, you know, jobs, that they would be

428
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: given an education, that they would be flown around the world.

429
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell gained these girls trust through a number

430
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: of incredibly underhanded tactics and made them think that this

431
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: is how the world worked, that this is how you

432
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: got ahead in life, and then sent them out to

433
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: go and share that message with other young girls. That's

434
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: what's really awful here is that these young women were

435
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: led to believe that this was the way of the

436
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: world and that there was no other option if you

437
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: wanted to get out of a working class family and

438
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: find success and wealth and leading lambs to the slaughter

439
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, is it true? Well,

440
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: I can answer that yes, it is true that in

441
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, US attorneys met with lawyers for these child victims.

442
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: They were told that Elaine Maxwell had a nude photo

443
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: taken of a little girl, explicit photo taken and gift

444
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: to Epstein for his birthday. That's sick right there, how

445
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: RAZI it? They told US attorneys about it, and the

446
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: US attorneys did nothing, basically giving Epstein to get out

447
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: of jail free pass for the next three years to

448
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: go on raping children. It wasn't until the Miami Herold

449
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: cracked the case wide open that they were shamed into

450
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: doing something. You just heard Charlie Lankson, investigative reporter and

451
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 1: editor for dailymail dot Com speaking and she was talking

452
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: about how these girls were led to believe this was

453
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: with their ticket to a better life. If they could

454
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: endure getting raped by Epstein, they could have a world

455
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: opened up to them of education and travel and a

456
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: better life. Take a listen to our cut three. This

457
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: is Virginia Roberts Geffrey with the Miami Herol. Listen. I

458
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: had been a runaway and I had been abused before.

459
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: So to have this, you know, ability to get educated

460
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: and do something with my life, I thought I was

461
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,479
Speaker 1: turning around. It was a turning point for me. I

462
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: was really excited, and within an hour of being at

463
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: Epstein's mansion, the abuse quickly unfolded like that, and I thought, God,

464
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: you know, you know, I should have known better, but

465
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: I didn't. And now I'm here and this is as

466
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: good as it gets. You know, Sometimes I just I'm

467
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: speechless with what criminals do to their victims. Joining me

468
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: right now, special guest forensic expert Karen L. Smith, and

469
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: you can find her at Karen's Forensics, beerbones forensics dot com. Karen,

470
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: right now, we were looking at a trial for Epstein's

471
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: As they say, Madam, she's nothing more than a pimp

472
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: and she took part in these molestations according to some

473
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: of the girls, How in the hey, can we prove this? Yes,

474
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: we're going to have the girls from self testifying, but

475
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: very often gurars look for more. But this happened years again,

476
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: Yeah it did, and I have to say systemic failure

477
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. But there was one entity that didn't

478
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: fail them, and that was the Palm Beach Police Department,

479
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: Police Chief Michael Rider and Detective Joe Rickerry, who's now

480
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: unsfortunately deceased. They did their jobs, and they did it

481
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: exceptionally well. They went through Epstein's garbage. They found notes

482
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: with victim's phone numbers and these not so cryptic messages

483
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: about massages and sex. They found a high school transcript

484
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: in his desk drawer, and photographs of naked teenage girls.

485
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: All of that was corroborated by multiple victims who didn't

486
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: even know each other at the time. But here's the kicker.

487
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: Crucial evidence was missing. When the detectives served the search

488
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: warrant on Epstein's house, the computer towers were gone, wires

489
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: were hanging from the ceiling from a surveillance system that

490
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: had been dismantled to wars had been empty, and it

491
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: was clear at that point to police Chief Writer and

492
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: Detective Recarry that Epstein had somehow been tipped off. You know, Karen,

493
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: when you hear stories like this, the stories real, it

494
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: just does it ever way heavy on you when absolutely

495
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: fellow prosecutors, fellow law enforcement drop the ball. Hadn't been

496
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: for the officers that you just named, all of that

497
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: evidence would have been gone too. That's right, they do it. Michael.

498
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,439
Speaker 1: Writer pushed, he pushed, He called the FBI, He got

499
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: the FBI involved, and then that ball got dropped. It

500
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: wasn't the police. It was the upper levels of the prosecutors,

501
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: the state attorneys, and the US state attorney that dropped

502
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: these balls. And you know what, for me, as just

503
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 1: a lowly cop, a rank and file detective, it blows

504
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: my mind to think that these failures happened systemically in

505
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: a system that we are told old it's trustworthy, that

506
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: we're told works. It doesn't. This case is an absolute travesy, Nancy.

507
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: It makes me so sad, and it makes me feel

508
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: horribly fitting victim who are never going to be jumping guys.

509
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: He may be wondering where does Gillin Maxwell fit into

510
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: this scenario. Take a listen to Our Cut seven. This

511
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: is from BBC Panorama reporter Darren McIntyre Virginia Roberts, who

512
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: went to Epstein's Palm Beach home for the interview. Kailyn

513
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 1: walks me up the stairs and then there's this naked

514
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: guy laying on a massage table in the middle of

515
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,439
Speaker 1: the room. So although there was this naked man laying

516
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: on a table, I thought, okay, well, this is just

517
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: how they do it. I suppose he looked up at Kielynn,

518
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: so she's like, Okay, here's the lotions, here's the oils.

519
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: Put your lotions and oils on your arm. Always keep

520
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: your hand on the person you're massaging, and start with

521
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,959
Speaker 1: one foot and you and she'll get the other foot

522
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: and then we'll work together, so you just mimic my movements.

523
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: So anyways, that thought went fleeting from my head like

524
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 1: that was strange because we're doing this massage now. Through

525
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: that time, I mean, they were asking me questions about

526
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: who I was and you know how I got to

527
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: work at Marlago, and I really wanted them to know

528
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: how important it was to me to nail this interview

529
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: and to possibly you know, be educated from to become

530
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: a real massage therapist, and they seemed like nice people,

531
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: so I trusted them, and I told them I'd had

532
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: a really hard time in my life up until then.

533
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: I'd been a runaway. I've been sexually abused, I've been

534
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: physically abused. I've just I've had a really hard trot.

535
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: And that was the worst thing that I could have

536
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: told them, because now they knew how vulnerable I was.

537
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: And that's not the half of it. Was more, it

538
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: was like a gift for them. That's exactly what they needed,

539
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: that's exactly what they wanted, and they got it. So

540
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 1: they told me to take my clothes off, and Kiln

541
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: takes her clothes off, and Epstein's already nude, and they

542
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: start touching me, and they asked me to do things

543
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: for him, and and I just I did. I fell

544
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: right into the back of that circle. I thought, this

545
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 1: is just what life's about. This must be what life's about,

546
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: because I have never had somebody just take me in

547
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: and say that they're going to do something and then

548
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: not do something. So yeah, it was it was a

549
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: really it was a real big kick in the gut,

550
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: and it was a face of reality that I just succumbed.

551
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: To I just it's all I'd known, so I let

552
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: them abuse me and I did what they told me

553
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: to do. Take a list of natcha our cut twelve.

554
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: Virginia Frey was by far not the only victim that

555
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: went through the same thing, and that is something you

556
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: look for when you're prosecuting. Do witnesses victims separated by

557
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: time and space tell the same story without collusion. Take

558
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at NBC. My gosh, I

559
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: was fourteen years old, Like, what the hell do you

560
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: know when you're that young. Jennifer Rose grew up in

561
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: New York with dreams of becoming a Broadway actress. She

562
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: was thrilled when she was accepted to a performing arts

563
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: high school in the city. And it was outside that

564
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: school back in two thousand and one, she says, a

565
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: woman first approached her. She was definitely trying to get

566
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: to know me, trying to find out, you know, where

567
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: I was from, where I grew up, you know, I

568
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: lived with Arose says. The woman kept showing up, talking

569
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: to her, sometimes offering to buy her lunch or a soda.

570
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: The first time she brought up the name Jeffrey Epstein,

571
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: how did she describe him to you day. He was

572
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: just a great guy. I was just saying, like, you know,

573
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: he's helped me. I've struggled, Like she was similar to me.

574
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: Did she say he could help you with your career?

575
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: That was a big part of it. And when you

576
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: think of her now, you used the phrase he said

577
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: the recruiter, he felt like she was for sea. Arose says.

578
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: The recruiter brought her to Epstein's townhouse, just blocks from

579
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: the school. When you first met him, what did you think?

580
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: What did he say? Very nice, basically saying that you know,

581
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: he's heard a lot about me. You know, she the

582
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: recruiter was talking such nice things. Arose says. She was

583
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: served wine in Epstein's kitchen and they talked. When she last,

584
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: she says, she was given three hundred dollars and was

585
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: repeatedly invited back. It wasn't long after that that Arose

586
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: says that Epstein raped her. It started as a regular massage,

587
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: and then it turned in to write how many girls

588
00:39:53,680 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: were raped after US prosecutors turned a blind eye. We

589
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: wait as just as some falls. Nancy Grace climbs the story,

590
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,