WEBVTT - Mike Pence 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.920 Every American remembers where they were on January sixth, twenty 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:08.600 twenty one, but no American probably was more at the 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.360 center of attention on that day than Mike Pence. I 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.399 had a chance racing to sit down with him to 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.200 talk about the epic events of January sixth, twenty twenty one, 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.480 his career as a lifelong political figure, and his current activities. 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.720 You've been a governor of Indiana for ten years, a 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.920 Member of Congress from Indiana, and Vice President of the United 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.160 States for four years. So are you thinking about possibly 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.720 running again or you've had enough elective offices? 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:34.519 You know. 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:38.960 I'm I like to say I never say never, but 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.080 I can tell you, David, my focus right now is 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:43.360 really on trying to be a. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.720 Voice for the conservative values. 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.479 That have really animated my career over the last forty years, 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:55.480 and the foundation I created after we left Washington, d C. 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:59.960 Called Advancing American Freedom is really committed to those those 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:05.600 is a Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, George Bush principles that 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.920 really also guided the Trump Pence administration of a strong defense, 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:15.600 limited government, fiscal responsibility, traditional values, and so whatever the 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.679 future holds for me, I'm going to continue to seek 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.360 to be a champion for those principles that I think 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.479 have always made this country strong and prosperous and free. 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.840 So the organization is called Advancing American Freedom and it 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:28.679 where is it based. 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:30.520 It's based right here in Washington, d C. 0:01:30.840 --> 0:01:35.760 I live in Indiana, so I'm a commuter to Washington, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.400 but got a terrific and a growing team of principal 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.759 conservative men and women who are putting out the kind 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:49.880 of work that other organizations in the past provided in 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.800 the city when I was in Congress and as a 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.880 governor and an our administration. But there are less of 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.400 those voices today, and so we've emerged, I think as 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.120 one of the leading voices for traditional conservative thought. 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.040 And I'm very humbled by that, but also see a 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:06.480 great responsibility to it. 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:07.040 Now. 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:10.240 One of the conservative organizations that's been very popular among 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.920 conservatives in Washington for many years is the Heritage Foundation, 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.760 and recently a number of people have left the Heritage 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:17.520 Foundation and joining your organization. 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:18.680 Was that a surprise to you? 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.120 We were very moved that they were inspired by our 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.400 example and our consistent commitment to principle to come our way. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.919 But in another sense, I wasn't that surprised. 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.799 I have seen a shift in the conservative movement really 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:40.880 since President Trump's returned to active politics and ultimately his 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:46.200 successful campaign, where some are walking away from the Republican 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.560 Party's commitment to America being leader. 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:51.040 Of the free world. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:55.000 Some are walking away to our commitment to limited government 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.120 and even marginalizing the right to life. And the folks 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.400 that came our way I saw as an endorsement of 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:03.680 them wanting to be a part of a team that 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.320 is continuing to stand on that broad mainstream conservative agenda 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.679 that's to find the Republican Party for the better part 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:11.600 of seventy years. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.280 Today, as we talk, two issues have arisen where I 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.680 would say the Republican support is not as strong as 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:18.560 it has been before. 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:20.560 One of them deals with Greenland. 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:22.720 Why do you think so many Republicans on Capitol Hill say, 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.400 don't get involved with trying militarily to take over Greenland. 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.440 Well, David, I think you just put a fine point 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.680 on it, which is what I hear objections to, is 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:35.240 the notion that we would ever use military force against 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:41.360 a NATO ally. Denmark is a NATO ally and Greenland 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:46.680 is a part of their of their title and control, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.280 if you will, as a territory. 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.360 I think there's a great case. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:57.520 For acquiring Greenland, and I fully support the president's ultimate objective. 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.120 I think there's a national security case for it. The 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.280 Arctic is becoming enormously important. The ability to expand there 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.120 would be very important to the United States and our 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.440 security interests in the region. I expect there's also significant 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:16.120 economic interest in terms of mineral development. I know what 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:20.360 a student of history you are, but it was Abraham Lincoln, 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.880 Secretary of State, who was the first one to recommend 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.920 that we purchased green One, and so it is an 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.040 idea one hundred and fifty years in the making. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.200 Let's talk about another issue that seems to have divided 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.359 Republicans a bit, and that's Venezuela. With the effort to 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.320 take Maduro out. Are there many people on Capitol Hill, 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.960 including some Republicans, who think that a war Powers resolution 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.000 making clear what the president's real ability to do and 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.680 not do with military troops should be clarified. Do you 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:50.480 have any view on Venezuela. 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:51.080 Well. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:56.320 When I was serving alongside President Trump, he tasked me 0:04:56.400 --> 0:05:00.720 to take the lead from time to time in America 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.440 and the President and I were able to marshal some 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.800 sixty nations around the world to recognize him as the 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.360 legitimate president of Venezuela. It was one of the disappointments 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:16.640 of our first term that Maduro survived the Trump Pence administration, 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:23.000 and so I commend President Trump for taking military action 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:25.560 to bring Maduro to justice. 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:27.200 Here in the United States. 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:33.159 Armed forces responded brilliantly, and I think now we have 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:39.440 an opportunity to move Venezuela forward toward free and fair 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:44.120 elections and a restoration of the kind of market principles 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:48.360 that made Venezuela once the second most prosperous nation in 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.920 our hemisphere. I fully support the president's action if it 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.000 was to go far beyond that, if there was a 0:05:55.080 --> 0:06:00.599 direct military confrontation, I think the authorization and for the 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.400 use of force vote and Congress will be appropriate. But 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.279 I think at this point the President has operated fully 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.120 within his responsibility and authority. 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.120 Another issue that has I think united some Republicans maybe 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.520 in opposition to some of what President Trump wants to do, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.640 and I'll just be curious if you can comment on it, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.880 is the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. President Trump 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.400 hasn't been that happy with him, and now there appears 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.400 to be maybe a criminal investigation of him for cost 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:30.120 overruns supposedly in the Federal Reserve building as it's being reconstructed. 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.520 Are you surprised that Republicans on Capitol Hill have said 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.680 they aren't going to confirm anybody until this issue to 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.920 replace j. Powell until this issue is satisfactly resolved. 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:45.960 I don't think that the American people want some pristine 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:51.160 independence and untouchable Federal Reserve by the elected president or 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.600 the elected representatives of the American people. I was disappointed 0:06:55.279 --> 0:07:02.160 to see the headlines about subpoenas having been issued. If 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.240 there needs to be a review of that construction project, 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:10.440 it seems like that because should happen in an orderly way. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.280 I'm not terribly surprised to see leading Republicans in the 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:20.680 Senate express their concern about that. Let's hold the Fed accountable. 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.000 The President can express his opinion. I think that new 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.280 leadership at the Federal Reserve would be good for our 0:07:27.280 --> 0:07:32.080 economy and good for the country. But it was disappointed 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:33.040 to see that development. 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.680 Let's talk about what you will probably be remembered for 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:39.640 the rest of your life. As you know the events 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:44.960 of January sixth, on twenty twenty one will probably be 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.440 the date that you will always be remembered for because 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:52.920 you agreed to have a vote account and you approve 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.720 the votes that came in from the States, in effect 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.240 saying that you had not been re elected as vice 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.600 president and President Trump had not been re elected as president, 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.320 and you obviously had a disagreement with President Trump over 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.160 that was that the hardest day of your life because 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.840 you had to disagree with the president and also because 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.000 people were trying to take your life. 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:19.400 David, January sixth was a tragic day. But I'll always believed, 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.480 by God's grace that I did my duty that day 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.480 to see to the peaceful transfer of power under the 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:33.319 Constitution of the United States. But it was a difficult day. 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:35.480 I don't know if it was the hardest day I've 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:40.080 ever faced. The day my dad left this earth was 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.600 an awfully hard day, and that was not to be 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:49.320 compared to those moments. But it was difficult. President Trump 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:54.000 and I had a good working relationship for four years. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.199 I'd like to say he was not just my president, 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:02.040 he was my friend. It was a fluid relationship. The 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:07.400 President gave me extraordinary opportunities to champion our agenda on 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.840 Capitol Hill, around the country, represent America around the world. 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:16.600 So the fact that we reached an impasse on. 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.880 My duty on January sixth was difficult, But I thought 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:24.199 my duty was clear. 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.000 In your book, So help me God. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.520 You talk about the fact that after a few days 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:31.640 after the election was over and you had the count 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.920 and President Trump wasn't happy, but he wasn't going to 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.240 be able to stay in office, you met with him 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.679 and he didn't yell or scream or he just had 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.760 a very friendly conversation. Can you recount what that was like. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.480 I think it's because the President and I have gone 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:51.680 our separate ways in the last several years. I think 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.959 it comes as a surprise to people to remember that 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:04.200 we actually parted very amicably on January twentieth, twenty twenty one. 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:04.600 But it. 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.960 Unfolded in those days immediately after January six Now, I'll 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.679 be honest with you, David. You you asked if I 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.320 had well what my emotions were at the Capitol on 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.560 January six I can tell you I wasn't afraid, but 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.840 I was angry. I was angry at what I saw. 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:28.480 I was angry seeing people, you know, desecrating the seat 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.040 of our government. I remember thinking, you know, not this, 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.760 not here, not in America. Well, it was a day 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.920 of tragedy. Because of the Capitol Hill Police, who were 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:44.160 the heroes that day, the violence was quelled and leaders 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:48.800 in both political parties reconvened the very same day and 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.240 completed our work for the peaceful transfer of power. I 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:57.720 remember in one of our last conversations he still seemed 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:03.920 very dejected and very down, and I looked at him 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.040 and I told him and I said, well, I'm you know, I'm. 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:08.840 Praying for you. 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:12.760 And when I got up to leave the meeting a 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:15.960 little bit later, I said, you know, I guess there's 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.160 probably two things that were always going to disagree on. 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.160 And he looked up faintly from where he was seated 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:25.240 at the dining room table and said, what's that. And 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.800 I said, well, I get the impression we're never going 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:32.120 to agree on my duty on January sixth, and I said, 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.720 and I'm never going to stop praying for you. 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:37.240 And he looked up with. 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.800 A faint smile and said, that's right, Mike, don't ever change. 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.080 Let's go back to the beginning of your career. You 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.720 were born in Indiana. I was what did your father 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:48.280 and mother do? 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:53.160 Yeah, my dad was a businessman. He ended up running 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:57.680 a gasoline station business, but uh, several hundred stations across 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:00.960 southern Indiana. Self made man, lived the American dream. My 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.320 mom was a second generation Irish American. My dad a 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:08.360 combat veteran. And I tell people I feel like I 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:10.719 grew up on the footstool of the American dream. 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.080 And you're growing up. You went to college where. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:18.600 Little college on the Ohio River in Indiana called Hanover College, 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:23.000 and then Indiana University for law school. But I always 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:24.800 had an interest from the time I was a little 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:29.080 boy in politics and in public service. I was deeply 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.640 inspired by the life the example of President John F. 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.680 Kennedy and the Reverend doctor Martin Luther King Junior, and 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.560 they still inspire me to this day. 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.760 Well, after law school, you practiced law, did little, but 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.720 then you actually got a radio talk show and you 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.320 became well known for that among other things. And you 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.600 were involved in a policy institute in Indiana. And then 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.560 in nineteen eighty eight, I think you ran for Congress. 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:01.240 Did you win overwhelmingly? 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:07.240 We came close, and then not so much two years later. 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.800 Right, So after eighty eight you lost and you said, well, 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:12.400 what's the best thing to do. I'll run again in 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.480 nineteen ninety, and you lost again. 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:15.640 I did so. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.199 I assume at the end of that election you said 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:19.439 I've had enough of politics. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.920 Well, or politics had had enough of me. I I 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:27.400 just had a feeling that that dream was gone, the 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:29.800 dream of being the congressman from my hometown. 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.800 So, after a gap of ten years from being an 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.640 elected trying to be an elected official, you run your 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:37.520 two thousand and you won. 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.079 I did so when you. 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.360 Got to Congress, was it as good as you thought 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:43.800 it was going to be? And was it worth that 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:45.640 long effort to get there? 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.240 It was a great privilege from me and a dream 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:50.760 come true. I never imagined I could be governor of 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.160 the state I grew up in, or serve as vice president, 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:59.280 But Congress was the dream of my youth, and I'll 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:00.800 always consider it to have been. 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:03.640 God's grace in my life. 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.880 First that I didn't win when I first ran, because 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.320 I don't think I was ready, But at age forty, 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.080 after spending a lot of years thinking about what I believe, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.400 learning a little bit better how to engage people, and communicate. 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.560 I felt like I was able to arrive in Washington. 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:22.880 With a clear idea of the vision that I wanted 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.160 to advance and the values and principles I wanted to 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.000 carry there from Indiana. 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:32.240 So, after ten years in Congress, you decided to run 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.560 for governor of the state of Indiana. So let's go 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.720 to how you became vice president. When did you actually 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.280 realize you were actually a serious candidate, And what was 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:43.120 like when you met him? 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:44.680 And you had not been an early supporter of his? 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:45.240 Is that right? 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:46.320 I had not? 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:52.720 In fact, the President often would enjoy reminding friends that 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:56.440 I had endorsed someone else in the Republican primary. 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:57.480 Who did you endure me? 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.680 Well, you know, as someone in the conservative movement. I 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.320 felt very drawn to Ted Cruz's candidacy. I said why 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.960 I was supporting Ted Cruz, But I also commended Donald 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:08.600 Trump because it was clear to me that he was 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.040 making a connection with all kinds of people across the 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:18.240 country who had aspirations for restoring our economy and standing 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:23.520 for values and standing tall again. But it was late 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.720 June when a business associate of his in Indiana, who 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.240 is a longtime friend of mine and his called me 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.480 on the phone. I was walking into the governor's residence 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:39.400 in Indiana and said, a friend of mine would like 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:44.960 to know if you would like to be considered for 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:52.760 the vice presidential nomination, and I was taken aback. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.280 So when you got elected vice president? Did you enjoy 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.040 the vice presidency? Up until the very end? 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.520 I never lost a sense of awe. 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.240 Every day that my motorcade drove me up to the 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.800 White House, or when I climbed on the helicopters to 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.320 fly to Andrews Air Force Base, to go somewhere around 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.640 the country, around the world. There was always a I 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:19.520 mean a small town guy from southern Indiana. Grandfather got 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.760 on a boat, stepped off onto Ellis Island. Dad ran 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:29.560 gas stations. And there I was on January twentieth, twenty seventeen, 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.960 with my left hand on Ronald Reagan's Bible and my 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:34.800 right hand in the air, and took the oath of 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.280 office to serve as Vice president. 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.960 I never got over it. It was a great sense 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.800 of privilege. As we said earlier, it. 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.080 Didn't end the way I wanted it to, but I'll 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:51.320 always be grateful for the privilege and opportunity that President 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.240 Trump and the American people gave me to surf. 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.160 You've become a member of Congress and you had a 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.960 reputation for being pretty conservative, I would think it's fair 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.840 to say, and you became a leader among conservatives in 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.480 the Congress. So were people surprised about how conservative you were? 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.080 Or is that what you always told people you were 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:08.679 going to do when you got to Congress, being very, 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:09.440 very conservative. 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.360 I told people that if I ever got to Congress, 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.960 my only ambition would be to do it. I told 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:17.880 people back home i'd do if I ever got there, 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.720 And you know, it ended up. It ended up putting 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.879 me at odds with the president of my own party 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.240 and my leadership from time to time when you said, 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.920 was it like what you expected when you got there? 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.480 I wrote in my book that sometimes I felt a 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.040 little bit like Rip Van Winkle. I felt like a 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.399 guy that ran for Congress the first time before the 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:43.360 Republican Revolution in nineteen ninety four and then was elected 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:46.320 after it was over. When I got to Washington, d C. 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.280 I greatly admire President George W. Bush and consider him 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.760 to be a friend and a great man. But his 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:58.600 administration was proposing from my very first days a massive 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.720 expansion of the Federal Department of Education. The Wall Street 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.679 bailout eight years later would also be a point of 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:08.240 contention between us. But what guided me through those years 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.840 was I knew that I had come really to keep 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:16.439 faith with the values and principles that the people of 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:18.200 Indiana had elected me to advance. 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:20.880 What did you do as Vice president that you're most 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.840 proud of, other than the vote on January sixth, which 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.560 presumably you're proud of having done that, But what do 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.439 you think you accomplished those four years before the January 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:30.200 sixth vote? 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.000 There are two things, both of them bear upon our 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:38.359 national security. Number one is the President tasked me with 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:45.320 giving the first major speech changing US posture toward China, 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.399 the speech I gave in twenty eighteen. The President and 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:54.560 I literally worked through it together, and essentially I think 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.640 it started the process that the Trump Pens administration achieved, 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.159 which was to change the national census on China. It 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:05.240 was to say, after years of hoping that economic exchange 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:10.360 would result in greater liberalization in China, we essentially put 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:14.879 a marker down and said, after years of trade abuses, 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:22.199 intellectual property theft, military provocations, human rights abuses, that. 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:25.560 Those days were over. 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.919 We're going to impose tariffs, We're going to demand that 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.880 China comes forward. And I'm proud that that posture has 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.880 been maintained even through the Biden administration, but now been 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.360 redoubled with President Trump's new term. 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.880 Now, President Trump, I think it's fair to say even 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.200 President Trump would probably say this has been impulsive at times, 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.919 and he likes to make decisions pretty quickly by the 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.160 traditional standards of Washington, d C. You strike me as 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.159 a more deliberative type person. How did you moderate or 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.520 modulate what President Trump did or did you not try 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:55.919 to do that? 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:58.480 I did not try and do that. I have a 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:00.840 great sense on that. 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.040 The role of the vice president is to help the 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:09.760 president be successful in the presidency that he was elected 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:11.840 to advance. One of the reasons I think we had 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.080 a very good relationship is that I read something during 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:19.720 the transition in early twenty seventeen that Walter Mondale had written. 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.120 He said in this essay, he said. 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.440 Everyone that comes into the Oval office is looking for something. 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.920 They're looking for a decision and to influence a decision. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.240 He said, it can't be like that with the vice president. 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:36.960 He said, the vice president owes the president his opinion 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:41.640 once and in private, because I would add to that, 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:48.760 apart from a moral or constitutional principle, what the president's 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:52.719 decides is the decision. And sometimes he'd slip and he'd say, 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:53.320 what do you think? 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:54.040 What do you think? 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.400 Then he'd say, Mike, wear you on this, And I'd say, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.239 let me talk to you later about that, and he'd go, oh, right, 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.800 right right, because he knew what I knew, and that 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.919 was there could be no daylight between the president and 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.760 the vice president. And I think it's the reason why 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:13.560 we accomplished so much in those four years. 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.040 I didn't ask you about your wife. Was it love at. 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.280 First sight when you saw her on your part and 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:20.800 her part? Or how did you meet her? 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.920 What was on my part? She was less impressed. It 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:26.680 took a little time. 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:29.760 No I saw her. She was playing a guitar up 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:30.600 in the front of a church. 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.560 I followed her out the back of the church one 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.880 Sunday morning, and then I walked her out in the front 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.280 of the church. About eighteen months later, it's been forty 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:44.520 years together and she is the love of my life. 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.399 She's an incredible public servant in her own right and 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.160 a great teacher, great mom, great grandmother. 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.760 You were born and raised as a Catholic, and then 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:58.199 at some point you decided to become what's known as 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:02.240 I'm born again Christian and a Protestant. So was that 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:06.000 difficult to tell your mother and father that you were 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.800 changing your religion and what was their reaction? 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.560 Well, first, I cherished my Catholic upbringing, eight years of 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:13.359 Catholic school. 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.400 It's really still a foundation in my life. I tell 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:19.119 people I didn't leave the church. 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.200 I left religion by the time I got to high 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.760 school that had some social success, and I just decided 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:27.200 David that religion was a cruch. 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:29.240 Some people needed it. I wasn't going to judge him 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:30.680 for it, but I didn't need it. 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:33.359 But when I got off to college, I started to 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:37.040 meet some young men that simply talked to me about 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.760