1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mankie Listener Discretion advised King Richard 3 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: the Third was preparing for battle. After three decades of 4 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: the civil conflict that have come to be known as 5 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: the Wars of the Roses, the fighting between two rival 6 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: claimants to the throne of England was finally reaching its head. 7 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: Richard knew as he was preparing to face off against 8 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: his rival, Henry Tudor, that this would be the end 9 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: of the fighting. 10 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: This battle at. 11 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: Bosworth Field would be, as Richard remarked, the end of 12 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: either wars or his life, though pop culture portrayals in 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: the Senate curies since Richard's death have often painted him 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: in the imagination as a middle aged man. On August 15 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: twenty second, fourteen eighty five, Richard the Third was only 16 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: thirty two years old. He would lead his men into battle, 17 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: descending into the fray himself, and so he wore heavy 18 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: armor and a helmet covered his face. And whether it 19 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: was a symbolic decision or whether it was a strategic 20 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: one meant to inspire and rally his troops atop his helmet, 21 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: Richard the Third secured his actual crown on that morning 22 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: at Bosworth Field. Henry Tudor's men approached first. They had 23 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: the advantage of readying themselves on the field of battle 24 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: before Richard's men. But soon the king descended on Tudor 25 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: with full strength, and its seemed like Richard the Third 26 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: would be victorious. His men knocked over the Tudor standard bearer, 27 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: the man holding the banner which marked the position of 28 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: their commander. It was an incredibly powerful and symbolic move 29 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: that would have alerted Tudor soldiers to the fact that 30 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: their captain might be dead. But then the tide shifted. 31 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: Tudor had reserve men led by a noble named Lord Stanley, 32 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: and Stanley's fresh army overwhelmed the exhausted Riccardian men. At 33 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: some point, King Richard was thrown from his horse. Shakespeare 34 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: famously imagined him in the heat of battle shouting my 35 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: kingdom for a horse, and then the king, fighting on foot, 36 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: lost his helmet. King Richard the Third, the last English 37 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: king to die in battle, was struck down by a 38 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: blow to the back of the head strong enough to 39 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: dislodge bone and brain. Word of his death spread across 40 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: the battlefield Like a ripple. The crown that Richard had 41 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: been wearing into battle had fallen among the dirt and blood. 42 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: It was recovered, and Lord Stanley, as kingmaker, whose soldiers 43 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: had turned the tide of the battle, had the honor 44 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: of placing it atop Henry Tudor's head. From the dead 45 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: temples of this bloody wretch have I plucked off to 46 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: grace thy brows withal Stanley says of the crown in Shakespeare. 47 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: And though the real Stanley almost certainly had found the 48 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: crown in the mud and had not actually pulled it 49 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: off of Richard's dead body, it was a profound moment 50 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: of symbolism. There would be no rush for Henry Tudor's 51 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: official royal coronation. He was crowned on the battlefield Henry 52 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: the seventh, As for Richard, while history is told by 53 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: the victors, and history was being written very quickly in 54 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: real time after the Battle of Bosworth Field. For Henry 55 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: the Seventh's claim to the throne to be legitimate, his 56 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: narrative that Richard the third was a villainous usurper needed 57 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: to be legitimate as well. Richard's dead body was stripped 58 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: and paraded publicly, after all, as many people as possible 59 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: needed to know that the former king was actually dead. 60 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: The Dead Richard Parade proceeded to the nearby town of Leicester, 61 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: where it underwent whatever humiliations and mockery would have felt 62 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: fitting for a murderous tyrant struck down, But from there 63 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: sources petered out. Some say that Richard's bones had been 64 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: thrown in the River Sore. Others wrote that he was 65 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: buried in the chapel of Greyfriars Priory. But over the centuries, 66 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: the exact fate of the lost King's body, even the 67 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: exact location of the priory itself, disappeared from record. A king, 68 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: one of the most famous kings of England, was just gone, 69 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: but not forever. Five hundred and twenty seven years after 70 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: Richard the Third was struck down in battle, a team 71 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: of archaeologists, galvanized by a passionate amateur named Philip A. Langley, 72 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: would uncover his final resting place in one of the 73 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: most exciting archaeological discoveries of the twenty five first century. 74 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: From under the staff parking lot of a municipal building, 75 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: the bones of Richard the Third were brought to the surface, 76 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: and with them a fascinating conversation about how history is 77 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: written and who gets to write it. Because this isn't 78 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: just the story of a man from the fifteenth century. 79 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: It's a story about Philippa Langley and the University of 80 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: Leicester scientists, a story of a mid century detective novel 81 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: and a king Richard the Third fan club. It's the 82 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: story of a team of genetics researchers and bureaucrats and 83 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: a furniture designer in Canada. For years, Richard the Third 84 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: had been there, buried just beneath two feet of earth 85 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: in a parking lot, waiting for his story to be rediscovered. 86 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: Incredibly enough, Richard was found on most beneath a reserved 87 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: parking space marked plainly with the letter R. I'm Danish 88 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: Schwartz and this is noble blood. Pretty much as soon 89 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: as Henry the seventh became King of England, he set 90 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: about stabilizing his claim to the throne. Whether you believe 91 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: that includes him killing two princes imprisoned in the Tower 92 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: of London who may or may not have already been 93 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: dead by the time Henry became king is not something 94 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: I will be weighing in on on this particular episode, 95 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: but Henry the seventh did begin solidifying his power through propaganda. 96 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: Even the nomenclature of the Wars of the Roses is 97 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: a bit of Tudor trickery. Though the Yorks did occasionally 98 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: use the White World as their sigil, it was used 99 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: much more frequently after the fact, in order to give 100 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: Henry's claim to the throne a clean, digestible narrative. On 101 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: one side, there was the red Rose of Lancaster, on 102 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: the other the white Rose of York. Henry, taking up 103 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: the Lancastrian claim, married Elizabeth of York and united England 104 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: under a new dynasty, the Tutors with a new sigil, 105 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: a rose that's red and white. But as I've alluded 106 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: to before, though Henry was a descendant of King Edward 107 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: the Third, his claim to the throne through lineage was, 108 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: to put it, mildly shaky, especially compared to Richard the 109 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: Third's claim. There's a fine line between hero who just 110 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: claimed his throne legitimately and opposed a tyrant and guy 111 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: who just murdered the rightful king, and Henry was determined 112 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: to land on the side of the former. A young 113 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: page in the household of Henry's Lord Chancellor proved to 114 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: be exactly what Henry Tudor needed. This young page wrote 115 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: a book entitled The History of Richard the Third, which, 116 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: in the words of Stephen Greenblatt at The New Yorker quote, 117 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: wove together every dark rumor about Richard's brief life into 118 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: a brilliant narrative which paints a portrait of a bold, gifted, 119 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: and ineradicably evil man whose evil was marked in his 120 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: very body end quote. The history described Richard as short, 121 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: crooked backed, with one shoulder higher than the other, and 122 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: a personality that matched with the author saw as God's 123 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: judgment made visible. 124 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: Quote. He was close and. 125 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: Secret, a deep, dissimilar lowly of continents end quote. In 126 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: other words, this man was born evil, a despicable man, 127 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: and a worse king, and the fact that he was 128 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: short and twisted was evidence of that. 129 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 2: The page who. 130 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: Wrote this history, in case you were wondering, was Thomas Moore. 131 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: The Tudor propaganda train continued on with Shakespeare's famous History 132 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: that sees Richard as no less of a villain, but 133 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: a more complicated one, a man lonely and plodding and 134 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: all too aware of how his hunchback and disfigured arm 135 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: hold back his ambitions. It's a distinction between the two 136 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: texts that I think is interesting enough to consider for 137 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: another minute. Back to Greenblatt at the New Yorker quote. 138 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: In Moore's history, Richard's physical deformity is an uncanny sign 139 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: of his viciousness, a kind of preternatural portence or emblem. 140 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: In Shakespeare, it is the root condition of his psychopathology. 141 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: There is nothing mechanical in this conditioning, certainly no suggestion 142 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: that all men with twisted spines become cunning murderers. But 143 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: Shakespeare does suggest that a child unloved by his mother, 144 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: mocked by his peers, and forced to regard himself as 145 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: a monster, will develop certain compensatory psychological strategies, some of 146 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 1: them both destructive and self destructive. 147 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: End quote. 148 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: Complexly motivated or not. Thanks to tudor writers, Richard the 149 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: Third's reputation as a ruler in the popular culture was 150 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: well established by the twentieth century, to the degree that 151 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: to defend him, or even point out the way his 152 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: tutor propaganda misinformed our perceptions of him, was outside of 153 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: academic circles. The contrary position, if you asked the average 154 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: person on the street about Richard the Third, they would 155 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: almost certainly come back with words like hunchback, scheming, murderer. 156 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: Though Edinburgh based screenwriter Phil B. Langley would lead the 157 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: charge of uncovering Richard the Third's body in twenty twelve, 158 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: she was not the first person to suggest that maybe 159 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: the King's reputation was unwarranted as far as modern popular 160 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: culture goes. One of the biggest pillars in the Richard 161 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: the Third Reclamation movement was actually a nineteen fifty one 162 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: detective novel by Josephine Tay called The Daughter of Time. 163 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: In the book, Tay's recurring detective Alan Grant, not to 164 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: be confused with Jurassic Parks. Alan Grant is stuck in 165 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: bed with a broken leg, bored without his job. Grant 166 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: sees a portrait of Richard and is struck by the 167 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: man's apparent kindness. Grant is a detective with a preternatural 168 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: talent for judging people's guilt and innocence based on their 169 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: face and his gut feelings, and so upon seeing Richard's face, 170 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: Grant thinks, well, that man couldn't have murdered his two 171 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: nephews with the help of a research archivist, Grant pours 172 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: through every book and text available to him, very real 173 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: books and texts, I might add, as he builds an 174 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: argument that the reader can follow along with every step 175 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: of the way, that Richard Third was not in fact 176 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: the likeliest culprit for the murder of his nephews. Tay's 177 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: book made a massive impact on popular and intellectual culture, 178 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: and it was the first in a wave of books 179 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: and media in the fifties and sixties revisiting. 180 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: The history of Richard the Third. 181 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: Though a group of amateur historians and Richard the Third 182 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: defenders had formed a group in nineteen twenty nine calling 183 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: themselves the Fellowship of the White Boar, after Richard's heraldic badge, 184 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: the group had mostly fallen by the wayside in the 185 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: preceding decades. A daughter of Time Reader named a Soulda 186 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: Wygram was galvanized enough by the book to reform the 187 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: group under a new name, the Richard the Third Society. 188 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: Philippa Langley would form the society's Edinburgh chapter. Langley had 189 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: first encountered Richard Third in a biography written by Paul 190 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: Murray Kendall, and since then she had been devoted to 191 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: rehabilitating the image of an English ruler she believed had 192 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: been wrongfully maligned. The legacy of King Richard the Third's 193 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: missing body nagged at her. Langley was research reaching a 194 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: screenplay that she wanted to write about Richard, and so 195 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: she went to Leicester to scope out the scene where 196 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: it was rumored the king's body was taken after he 197 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: was killed. Langley described walking over the car park where 198 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: she believed Richard was buried, lingering at the reserved spot 199 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: with the painted R quote. I just felt like I 200 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: was walking on Richard the Third's grave. I can't explain 201 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: it end quote. A medieval historian named John Rouse had 202 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: written a few years after the Battle of bosworth Field 203 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: that Richard the Third was buried in Greyfriars Priory, but 204 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: even though that area in modern Leicster was called Greyfriars, 205 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: the church itself was gone somewhere under a parking lot, 206 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: a school yard, a street. The church had been demolished 207 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: in fifteen thirty eight after Henry the eighth Henry the 208 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: seventh son dissolved the monasteries the Tudor dynasty, inadvertently adding 209 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: insult to injury. I suppose Langley's intuition wasn't pulled out 210 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: of thin air. In the nineteen eighties, an academic named 211 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: David Baldwin suggested that Richard might be buried under that 212 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: parking lot, but no one seemed that interested in while 213 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: doing anything about it. It would be a lot of 214 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: money and a lot of trouble for something that was 215 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: basically a theory, a historical rumor. A dig would cost 216 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars, maybe more experts would need 217 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: to be galvanized. Off site parking would have to be arranged, 218 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: and even if they found some random bones, which again 219 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: was no guarantee at all, who could even say if 220 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: they were Richard the Third's. But Langley's mission was now 221 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: officially underway. She would pick up the man of finding 222 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: justice for Richard by finding Richard himself. After all, to 223 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: quote Alan Grant, the detective in A Daughter in Time, 224 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: if you can't be a pioneer, what's wrong with leading 225 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: a crusade? There's that old saying about constant water and 226 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: its effect on stone end quote. It took Langley years, 227 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: literal years years of repeatedly requesting that the University of 228 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: Leicester undertake the dig in the Social Services Department parking 229 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: lot aka the best guess for where the buried former 230 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: location of Greyfriars Priory would be where Richard might be 231 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: buried nothing. But then a miracle of science and research occurred. 232 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: A historian named John Ashton Hill was doing research on 233 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: Richard the Third's sister and he made a breakthrough. He 234 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: had been able to trace the matrilineal line of descent 235 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: mother to daughter from Richard's mom and sister to a 236 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: modern woman named Joy Ibsen who lived in Canada. Richard 237 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: the Third had no living descendants and being able to 238 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: trace his matrilineal line of descent was a huge deal. 239 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: One because it's a fun cocktail party conversation starter for 240 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: that family in Canada, but also because now if a 241 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: body was unearthed in Leicester, there would be a way 242 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: to determine whether or not it actually was Richard the 243 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: Third using mitochondrial DNA. 244 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: This is a podcast on. 245 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: History, not genetics, but in very very simplistic terms, the 246 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. Kidding, but basically, 247 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: most human DNA is located in a cell nucleus, but 248 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: a tiny part of the genome is located in the 249 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: mitochondria and the DNA of people from the same matrilineal 250 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: line will have identical sequences. Langley invited Ashton Hill to 251 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: give a lecture in Scotland through the Richard the Third Society, 252 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: and the two of them, along with a couple of 253 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: their fellow Ricardians, officially formed the Looking for Richard project. 254 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: The funding was the most important hurdle, but eventually, by 255 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: securing documentary television interest and raising considerable funds through donations 256 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: of members of the Richard the Third Society both in 257 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: Europe and in the United States, the requisite institutions in 258 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: Leicester agreed on the dig. The University of Leicester archaeologist 259 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: Richard Buckley, who was the dig's project manager, knew that 260 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: success was unlikely. He told Langley to keep her expectations 261 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: in check. Fifty to fifty at best for finding the 262 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: church and nine to one against finding the grave, he said. 263 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: After a few months of preparation of testing the site 264 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: and researching possible trenched dig locations, the dig officially began 265 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: on August twenty fifth, twenty twelve. After just one day 266 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: they found human bones. It took another week to carefully 267 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: dig back and unearth what was soon revealed to be 268 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: an undisturbed human skeleton, missing its feet, but almost entirely complete, 269 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: near what would have been the choir of the church, 270 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 1: buried in a place of honor. The body wasn't buried 271 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: in a coffin, and it wasn't covered by a shroud. 272 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: It had been hurriedly dumped into a grave that was 273 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: too small. Most asonishing of all, the body's spine was 274 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: curved in a visible, pronounced s shape. This man, when 275 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: he had been alive, must have been hunched over one 276 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: shoulder taller than the other. They had found Richard the third, 277 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: at least they hoped they had. Now they just needed 278 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: to prove it. Analysis of the body determined that it 279 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: was a man in his late twenties or early thirties 280 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: who died in battle between fourteen fifty five and fifteen forty. 281 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: All of that was in line with Richard, who died 282 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 1: at thirty two in fourteen eighty five. The scientists also 283 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: proved that the body would have had a high protein 284 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: diet with plenty of meat and expensive fish, which would 285 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: have been available to an incredibly privileged class of person 286 00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: in the fourteen hundreds. They also digitally reconstructed the body's 287 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: face based on its skull, and it looked like portraits 288 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: we have of Richard. And then there was the hunchback. 289 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: Some Richard the Third supporters had dismissed the idea of 290 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: Richard having a hunchback as pure Tudor fiction, but no, 291 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: here it was. The body that they found in the 292 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: parking lot had a pronounced visible s shape severe scoliosis, which, 293 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: if it hadn't given Richard an outright hunchback, certainly would 294 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: have made one shoulder sit higher than the other. This 295 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: detail thrills me. It makes the discovery of Richard the 296 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: Third's body so much more interesting in my mind, because really, 297 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: what does the fact that Richard had scoliosis or even 298 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: a hunchback say about his personality? Absolutely nothing. Yet for 299 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: centuries it's been a primary factor in our understanding of 300 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: rich Id. Tudor writers attempted to use the hunchback as 301 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: a metaphor or motivator, and Riccardians tried to dismiss it 302 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: in their quest to repaint Richard as a straight backed hero. 303 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: History is storytelling, and stories love metaphors. Heroes are handsome 304 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 1: and tall, princesses are beautiful villains have crookbacks and shriveled hands, 305 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: But that's not how the real world works. Richard might 306 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: have been guilty of killing his nephews, or he might 307 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: have been entirely innocent, or he might have been guilty 308 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: of a slew of other terrible things, but none of 309 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: that would be because of how his spine was shaped. 310 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: I find it fascinating. 311 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 2: Anyway. 312 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: Back to the scientific research, the matrilineal DNA proved to 313 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: be the most conclusive piece of evidence in conjunction with 314 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: all of the other evidence. The researchers at the University 315 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: of Leicester had also tested DNA from the patrilineal line 316 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: father to son for fifteen generations. But even though the 317 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: two modern descendants they found had DNA patterns that matched 318 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: each other, neither of them matched the body that was 319 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: supposed to be Richard. Well, that's a problem, but not 320 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: really a big problem. You see, every generation there's a 321 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: risk of false paternity, someone identifying someone as the father 322 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: who wasn't, And in the fifteen generations between Richard the 323 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: Third and now among feuding nobles, there are plenty of 324 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: historians who can point to specific cases that might have 325 00:24:53,480 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: thrown off the patrilineal line, but matrilineal DNA, well, it's 326 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: much harder to misidentify someone as the mother. Doctor Torry 327 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: King at the University of Leicester was able to extract 328 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 1: the mitochondrial DNA from the body they dug up and 329 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: compare it to the DNA of two of the living 330 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: descendants of Richard's sister. One of the descendants was a 331 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: cabinet maker named Michael Ibsen, son of the Canadian Joy Ibsen, 332 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: who had been identified years earlier. All of the DNA 333 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: samples from the matrilineal line shared a rare type of 334 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: mitochondrial DNA carried by only one to two percent of 335 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: the population. It was a match, according to The New 336 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: York Times. When doctor King saw the results, she quote 337 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: went very quiet, then did a little dance around the 338 00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: laboratory end quote. So as the University of Leicester made 339 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: clear beyond a reasonable doubt the body did belong to 340 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: Richard the Third. The next question was what could it 341 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: teach us. The killing wound had been a blow to 342 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: the head, most likely from a halberd that hit Richard 343 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: from behind below his left ear with enough force that 344 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: it knocked away bone and brain. Richard's helmet evidently had 345 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: fallen off or been removed at some point in combat, 346 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: which gives credence to the way that Shakespeare painted the 347 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: scene with Richard having fallen from his horse and fighting 348 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: on foot in the fray. There were a number of 349 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: other wounds on Richard's body, but because they were in 350 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: places that armor would have been covering, scientists and historians 351 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: determined that they were what's known as humiliation wounds committed 352 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: to Richard after he was already dead, possibly when they 353 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: were carrying the body from Bosworth Field to Leicester. Most 354 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: news outlets and historians, when they're speaking about it publicly 355 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: leave it just there, just describing them as humiliation injuries. 356 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: But in case you're curious, and my apologies in advance 357 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: for this. In this case, it means that Richard had 358 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: wounds the face, and also that someone attempted to stick 359 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: a knife or sword or dagger up his deceased buttocks. 360 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 1: Richard's naked body was thrown over horseback and brought from 361 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,959 Speaker 1: Bosworth Field to Leicester, where Friars, no doubt terrified at 362 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: the regime change happening in real time, tried to bury him. 363 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: As quickly as possible. 364 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: Richard was buried in a shallow grave at the head 365 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: of gray Friar's Priory, near the choir, naked and with 366 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: no winding sheet or shroud. The grave was so small 367 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: that Richard, who had only been five to two, had 368 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,959 Speaker 1: to have his neck pressed forward and upright so that 369 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: he would fit in the hole. The skeleton was also 370 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: found with its hands close together pulled over its right hips, 371 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: which indicate that Richard's hands may have been tied together 372 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: at the time. Neither arm was shrunken or shriveled, and 373 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: there Richard stayed underground as the world above him changed 374 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: until summer twenty twelve, when the archaeologists at the University 375 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: of Leicester announced that the bones exhumed beneath the parking 376 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: lot were beyond a reasonable doubt, the last Plantagenet King 377 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: of England. They arranged for Richard to be presented on 378 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: a black velvet lined table under a glass case for 379 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: journalists and their public to see. Two chaplains sat in 380 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: the room as journalists filed in providing the dignity that 381 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: the university said that the king was owed. It would 382 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: be another several years before bureaucratic red tape would allow 383 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: poor Richard to reach his final resting place with rival 384 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: factions vying for power in a way that resembles a 385 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: much lower stakes archaeology based War of the Roses. Members 386 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: of the Richard the Third Society had voiced their opinion 387 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: that Richard should be interred with other English kings at 388 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: Westminster Abbey. A group comprised of Plantagenet descendants sued for 389 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: the right to bury Richard near his lands in York, 390 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: but in the end the ruling was made that the 391 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: body would be buried there in Leicester, in an Anglican cathedral, 392 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: just two hundred yards from the parking lot where Richard 393 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: had been found. It seems the legal system ruled in 394 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: the manner consistent with the British Museum's approach to possession 395 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: finder's keepers. On March twenty sixth, twenty fifteen, Richard the 396 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: Third was buried in a ceremony with the pomp and 397 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: circumstance befitting a king. The Archbishop of Canterbury presided the 398 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: ancestral research had revealed that the actor Benedict Cumberbatch was 399 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: a relative of Richard the Third, and he read a poem. 400 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: This was twenty fifteen, Benedict Cumberbatch was hot as they came. 401 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: Both Philippa Langley and John Ashton Hills were present too. 402 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: The coffin that Richard the Third was buried in was beautiful, 403 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: polished to glistening, made of golden English oak and ewe. 404 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: It was constructed by hand for this very occasion to 405 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: inter a king. But it wasn't built by someone who 406 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: specialized in coffins. King Richard Third's coffin was constructed by 407 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: Michael Ibsen, the cabinet maker from Canada whose DNA had 408 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: proved to be instrumental in bringing Richard to his final 409 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: resting place. That's the story of the unearthing and reburial 410 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: of Richard the Third. But keep listening after a brief 411 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: sponsor break to hear a little bit more about Richard Third. 412 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: In pop culture, thanks in no small part to Shakespeare, 413 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: there have been plenty of depictions of Richard Third stage 414 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: and on screen. One could even argue that in Disney's 415 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: Lion King, Scar the scheming slightly disfigured Machiavellian uncle owes 416 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,239 Speaker 1: as much to Richard the Third or more as he 417 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: does to Claudius in Hamlet. Hamlet is, of course the 418 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: play whose plot explicitly inspired Lion King. But I think 419 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: my favorite portrayal of a version of Richard IID isn't 420 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: evil at all, or at least, let's say, not as 421 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: evil as he could be. The Game of Thrones series 422 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: is explicitly inspired by the Wars of the Roses, and 423 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: some of the parallels are incredibly obvious. The Starks are 424 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: analogs for the Yorks, the Lanisters, the Lancasters, but not 425 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: every character and dynamic has a one to one equivalent. 426 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: Tyrian Lanister, who's portrayed by Peter Dinklage in the HBO series, 427 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: is obviously a Lanister, which should correspond to Lancaster. Richard 428 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: the Third was a York. But Tyrian is also scheming 429 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: and self serving, the self aware chess player who sees 430 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: moves before others make them. He's also a little person 431 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: who frequently remarks, not unlike Shakespeare's Richard with a hunchback, 432 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: that his physical difference is what holds him back from 433 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: the glory afforded to his brother. And of course, Tyrian 434 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: is the uncle to a boy king rumored to be illegitimate. 435 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: Whether you watched or read Game of Thrones and saw 436 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: Tyrian as a villain or a hero or somewhere in between. Depends, 437 00:33:47,600 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: I think on your point of view. Noble Blood is 438 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio and Grimm and Mild from 439 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: Aaron Manke. Noble Blood is created and hosted by me 440 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and researching by Hannah Johnston, 441 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: Hannah Zwick, Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. The 442 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: show is edited and produced by Noemi Griffin and rima 443 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: Il Kahali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive producers 444 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: Aaron Manke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts 445 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 446 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.